Naval Battle of Narvik: Annihilation (Part 3)

Summary

Podcast Summary: WW2 Pod – We Have Ways of Making You Talk

Episode: Naval Battle of Narvik: Annihilation (Part 3)

Release Date: June 17, 2026
Hosts: Al Murray (comedian, WWII enthusiast), James Holland (historian and WWII author)

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Episode Overview

The third and final installment of the Narvik naval series dives into the climax and aftermath of the 1940 Battle of Narvik during WWII. Al Murray and James Holland blend expert historical analysis with witty, irreverent banter to dissect the disaster suffered by the Kriegsmarine in Norwegian waters. They trace British and German decision-making, recount the drama of naval engagements, showcase the critical role of air power, and reflect on the sea-change this battle represented for naval warfare and the wider war effort.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Stage: Missed Opportunities and the German Gamble

• British indecision delayed a full response to the German invasion of Norway, allowing Germany to establish key footholds at Bergen, Stavanger, and Trondheim.

• Admiral Forbes of the British Home Fleet lamented these missed opportunities, but quickly pivoted to damage control.

  "You can't undo what's done. You can only make the best of what's in front of you." – James Holland [04:45]

• Environmental constraints (weather, tides, ice) played a major role, hindering both sides and highlighting the unpredictability of naval operations in Norway's fjords.

Air Power: Asset and Limitation

• The Royal Navy was ahead in embracing naval air power, but British carriers like the Furious were held back, seen as too valuable to risk close to the coast.
• German air superiority—especially with the airfield at Stavanger—quickly made the southern approaches too dangerous for British surface ships.
• The episode unpacks the limits of British bombers in this era (“Wellingtons and Hampdens are not accurate at the best of times,” – James Holland [11:25]) and the frustrating failures of early sorties.

Submarine Action: Changing the Rules

• British submarine captains initially had to warn before attacking enemy ships—a legacy of pre-war rules—until the rules of engagement changed mid-action:

  "Signal, sir, just come in. German merchant ships east of 8 degrees east may be sunk without warning." – James Holland [13:11]
  "To which Slaughter says, splendid. Signalman: 'Fire one.' Boom, and down she goes." – Al Murray & James Holland [13:27]

• These new orders brought immediate results, notably the sinking of the Amasis and the cruiser Karlsruhe.

The Narvik Attack: Surprise and Chaos

• Captain Warburton-Lee’s flotilla of destroyers slipped into Narvik in thick weather at dawn, catching the Germans off-guard.
• A cat-and-mouse sequence unfolded as British ships snaked through the fjords virtually undetected, spectacularly outmaneuvering German destroyers.
• The initial British attack was devastating—German destroyers and merchant ships took heavy losses in minutes.
• Warburton-Lee's last signal epitomizes the spirit of the action:

  "Keep engaging the enemy." – Al Murray [24:40]

The Unraveling: British Losses, Cataclysm for Germany

• The encounter turned when British ships attempting withdrawal ran into German reinforcements.

• The Hardy, severely damaged, was run ashore deliberately so survivors could scramble onto land—a moment of desperate ingenuity and Royal Navy grit.

  “The paymaster … has one foot badly mangled …but he drags himself from the bridge to the wheelhouse... That's the spirit of the Royal Navy.” – Al Murray [24:55]

• Numerous German destroyers were sunk or crippled; British losses, though costly, were sustainable compared to the devastating blow absorbed by the Kriegsmarine.

Air Attacks and Bergen Raid

• Fleet Air Arm Skuas launched a daring attack on the cruiser Königsberg at Bergen:

  "They spot the Königsberg … and Captain Partridge leads the squadron down in a steep dive … three bombs hit the cruiser … and the Königsberg is rolling over and sinking. Not one of the Skuas is shot down."
  — James Holland [33:38]

• Demonstrates the early proof-of-concept for British naval air power.

The Second Battle of Narvik: The Finale

• With German surface forces battered, the Royal Navy returned, now with the battleship Warspite, for a rematch.

• German survivors, low on fuel, ammunition, and morale, could do little against overwhelming British numbers.

  “What it means is the German destroyers have gone … they've got no means of getting out, they've got no fuel, they're running low of ammunition ... catastrophic and shapes the war.” – Al Murray [36:04]

• Swordfish planes attacked and, though largely unsuccessful, added pressure. U-boats, hampered by the narrow fjords and faulty torpedoes, failed to disrupt the British fleet.

• The remaining German destroyers were methodically run aground by their own crews to prevent capture.

Consequences and the Big Picture

• Strategic Disaster for Germany:

  “In terms of actual losses … 50% of the destroyer fleet, 50% of heavy cruisers, two of six light cruisers … all lost. And then literally all the major ships are hit.”
  – James Holland [53:27]

• Impact on Hitler's Invasion Plans: With the Kriegsmarine gutted, any credible threat of “Operation Sea Lion” (invasion of Britain) evaporated.

• Germany’s loss tied up resources in Norway for the rest of the war.

• The Royal Navy’s lessons: vulnerability to air attack, importance of secure communications, and the unpredictability (and devastation) of North Sea warfare.

• The episode closes with reflection on Warburton-Lee, Narvik’s legacy, and the continuing presence of wrecks as physical reminders.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On British hesitation:
  “Perfectly put, Jim. And at 10:15 that morning, the Admiralty approves a suggestion from Forbes... the idea that he has to make suggestions and wait for them to be signed off. I mean, just do it.” – Al Murray [06:19]

• On Royal Navy improvisation:
  “It’s this absolutely shit or bust kind of fighting...” – Al Murray [27:23]

• On geography and surprise:
  “It’s so atmospheric…mountains rising on either side, the inky dark fjord…Rain, snow flurries, wind from the east…you can just picture it.” – James Holland [19:00]

• On the aftermath:
  “Would you say, Jim, do you think this is the most decisive naval encounter of the Second World War?” – Al Murray [58:43]
  “It’s got to be one of the most consequential, certainly the European war… because the U-boats aren’t there in the Atlantic...” – James Holland [58:49]

• On standing among physical history:
  “And when I went there with Daisy in March… got to the Georg Thiele. And there it was, this big rusting hulk sticking out of the water… it was absolutely amazing.” – James Holland [58:41]

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Timestamps for Critical Segments

• [04:45] – British Commanders grasp the scale of the German invasion; missed chances
• [09:04] – The decisive role of airfields and the beginning of British air engagement
• [13:11] – Rule changes letting British subs attack without warning
• [18:11–22:22] – Warburton-Lee’s surprise attack in Narvik Fjord
• [24:40–26:52] – Desperate withdrawal, ramming Hardy ashore, human stories under fire
• [33:38] – The Fleet Air Arm’s Skuas sink the Königsberg at Bergen
• [36:04–38:22] – Catastrophic German losses, strategic consequences
• [41:27] – The Royal Navy returns with Warspite for the second battle at Narvik
• [46:14–49:31] – German destroyers destroyed or run aground, final collapse
• [53:27–56:14] – Summing up German losses and lessons learned for both navies
• [58:41–60:22] – Reflections, physical remains of the battle, and the significance of Narvik
• [60:22–60:54] – Warburton-Lee’s legacy and the decisive nature of the battle

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Concluding Reflection

Al Murray and James Holland make a convincing case that the Battle of Narvik stands among WWII’s most decisive and consequential naval encounters. The British naval victory devastated the German surface fleet, nullified any plausible attempt at invading Britain, and drastically shaped the subsequent conduct of the war at sea. Throughout, their lively, unscripted interplay brings vividness and humanity to the complexities and brutalities of naval warfare.

A “must listen” for anyone fascinated by the realities of WWII, the fortunes of navies, and the dramatic way history can pivot on a few days of action in a distant fjord.

Transcript

[Al Murray]

Thank you for listening to we have ways of making you talk. Sign up to our Patreon to receive bonus content, live streams and our weekly newsletter with money off books and museum visits as well. Plus early access to all live show tickets. That's patreon.com we haveways.

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[James Holland]

Nothing had been seen from the British ships when at 4:30am the harbor suddenly erupted in shattering explosions and shell splashes. The sleeping crews came clattering onto deck to action stations, shocked and dazed, unable to distinguish any enemy and believing at first they were under air attack. That was written by Donald McIntyre, Captain Donald McIntyre, in his book Narvik. So not only was he a great destroyer captain and escort group commander in Second World War. After the war he wrote endless books about the navy. And this of course is the action that takes place in Narvik harbour. And here we are back again.

[Al Murray]

Yes.

[James Holland]

Where we started. Yeah, well, in episode one.

[Al Murray]

Exactly. So welcome to. We have ways of making you talk with me, Al Murray and James Holland for our third part in the story of the naval battle of Norway. And this episode three is called Annihilation. So I don't want to give anything away, I don't. As we've seen that there's been this dash versus dither towards action in Norway. The Germans dashing to it in an ill conceived manner. The British finally making up their minds and purely coincidentally for basically the same day. It's absolutely extraordinary. That also shows how naval operations are bound by weather and possible tide and ice and all this part of the world and moon and all this. Anyway, we haven't quite got to know it yet, but we had our extraordinary dramatic encounter of the. The glowworm fighting, the ramming, the Admiral Hipper and then the, I'm gonna call it idiotic loss of the Blucher.

[James Holland]

Yeah, don't forget the polls.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, and the poles, of course. Yes, we haven't forgotten the polls in the orzel, but basically the stage is now set for this potentially war changing clash between unequal opponents because the Germans have basically put all their chips up onto the Norwegian basket. Exactly. Norwegian basket, that's right. So let's get. It's the morning of the 9th of April 1940. Jim.

[James Holland]

Admiral Sir Charles Forbes, Commander in chief of the British Home Fleet. He is no longer in any doubt at all about what's going on and he is absolutely ruing the massive missed opportunities. All this worry about kind of breaking through the economic blockade and marauding into the Atlantic and all of the. The rest, the rest of it. No, that's not what this is about. This is the invasion of Norway and they could have absolutely hammered it. But you can't undo what's done. You can only make the best of what's in front of you. So his forces are 90 miles off the Norwegian coast between Bergen and stavanger and at 6.30am he's joined by the 18th Cruiser Squadron of Manchester and Southampton and seven further destroyers and he's thinking about what to do next.

[Al Murray]

And in London, the chiefs of staff are also there now, scratching their heads about what to do. They met at 6 o' clock that morning. Oh, there's only one battalion which is the first Scots Guards. So really rather snazzy soldiers are currently embarked in transport on the Clyde. They're ready to leave immediately for Narvik having stood down an invasion force anyway with plan R4 abandoned previously. So British chiefs decide they got to make the best of the situation and what they're going to do is prevent, prevent a firm German toehold at Bergen and. And Trondheim. They've got to make, they've got to make that happen, stop the Germans from doing that. And they also. So they issue orders to attack any German warships and transports at both ports and control the approaches to both. So they're finally waking up to what's going on.

[James Holland]

Better late than never. Yeah, but it would have been better if they hadn't been late.

[Al Murray]

Perfectly put, Jim. And at 10:15 that morning, the Admiralty approves a suggestion from Forbes.

[James Holland]

I mean this is finally they're agreeing with.

[Al Murray]

It's the idea that he has to make suggestions and wait for them to be signed off. I mean just do it. The delay that could, that, that could fall into while people scratch their heads in London in Admiralty arch. So his suggestion is to send a naval force to Bergen and they go, okay, fine. Four cruisers and destroyers are detached for this purpose. But the weather's really bad. It's the thing that's terrible been a big part of this story. Severe gales, very strong wind and the destroyers can only manage 16 knots. So they're not going to get to Bergen before nightfall. And then news arrives of enemy cruisers at Bergen so they sack that off. It's too dangerous.

[James Holland]

Too late.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, too late. Too dangerous now. Too difficult. If they pressed on they would have found the Konigsberg which has been smashed up and the destroyer Bremse. So they'd also bumped into the Colonel which was sailing after dark. So there's a good opportunity actually to, to give the Kriegsmarine.

[James Holland]

So Nelson on the shoulder has vanished off back up to perch and the pearly gates again is not. He's not breathing down them.

[Al Murray]

He is unimpressed. England expects our to forget about it. Yeah, that's what he's thinking at the moment. But one of the things that the Royal Navy have got that the Germans don't have is air capability where they're carriers. And this is your regular listener will know that we very much fell in love with the Fleet Air Arm not so long ago. The raid on Taranto and then the Incredible efforts in the chase for the Bismarck and the, and the Channel Dash the Royal Navy. And we did a, we did a brief history of the Fleet Air on, didn't we? To preface that Swordfish thing, the Navy's fully bought into the idea of naval air power. They are, they are absolutely pioneering in this.

[James Holland]

Yep.

[Al Murray]

And so what we're going to have is a, an air attack to come. Then we're going to get these skewers coming in. But there is a problem with air, isn't there?

[James Holland]

Yeah, because San Antonio, the Germans hold all the aces because they've got that crucial airfield near Stavanger and having got Bergen and Stavanger. Stavanger and Bergen are quite comparatively close to one another. Bergen is a bit further north. They're going to make sure they hold onto them and they're going to do that by relentlessly hammering any British ships that appear off the coast. And they get, you know, and as they're calling off this attack on Bergen in the afternoon, so down come the Stukas and Junkers and what have you and you know, Furious could have come across but the one aircraft carrier that's around but it's considered too precious. Yeah, they're happy to take her out to sea but they don't want to take her off the coast of Norway.

[Al Murray]

It's extraordinary this is in this weather

[James Holland]

and blah, blah, blah.

[Al Murray]

Because the Royal Navy has stolen a march on the. Not, not in entirely the rest of the world but they are well ahead on this on using air and they don't.

[James Holland]

And if you're, and if you're planning an operation in Norway, why haven't you brought up Art Royal and Illustrious?

[Al Murray]

Because they're, because there's still this lassitude which I think, I actually think is a couple of years to run in on the British side of things.

[James Holland]

So anyway, there they are, you know, there's battleships, cruisers, you know, lots of destroyers. And one of those who's there is Captain Philip Vian, our old great friend of the show. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and he's aboard HMS Cossack, part of the 4th Destroyer Flotilla. And one of his ships, HMS Gurkha, leaves the cruiser screen to get a clearer line of sight for his anti aircraft fire. He thinks I'm not having this. The captain of Gurkha, he says I can't see anything, I'm gonna go for it. And so he gets clear and gets absolutely pummeled and the ship has to be abandoned and then sinks. And Vyan writes about it, he goes the experiences of the 9th of April convinced Admiral Forbes that in the absence of fighter protection, the fleet could not operate so far south. An attack on Bergen would need to be left to aircraft, while further south again our submarines would have to be charged with the task of disrupting the enemy supply routes across the Skagerak and Kattegad. Well, he's right by this point because the opportunity was on the 7th and the 8th, now it's the 9th and the Germans have got that airfield and it's no longer safe. So that means a major rethink. But there's nothing wrong with them taking the north and establishing a redoubt up there.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Holland]

Because they don't.

[Al Murray]

They don't need. They don't need an air power answer. I mean it is remarkable that it's quite clear.

[James Holland]

Yeah, some just very brief, quick, decisive, clear thinking is what is required.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, but that would not be characteristic of the run of events.

[James Holland]

And Narvik are out of range of the Luftwaffe but they can be reached by aircraft from Orkney and Shetland.

[Al Murray]

I mean the Germans are ahead when it comes to dive bombing but they do have. The navy have got the Blackburn Skewer.

[James Holland]

Yes. But it's kind of. It's a multi purpose, dual purpose and it's kind of not very good at either. Which is the problem.

[Al Murray]

That's the problem the Fleet Air Arm have is their aircraft all have to be able to do everything. There are so many. There are so many moments in this where you think if they just thought a little bit differently.

[James Holland]

So there is yet another kind of bit of differing where they change the plan again and from now on it's going to be bombers are going to be sent over to Bergen. But Wellington's and Hamptons are not accurate at the best of times. Certainly not at this stage of the war. Great at dropping leaflets over Wilhelm Haven. So they send over to Hip Bergen. One of their number is shot down for absolutely zero strikes on any of the German aircraft. So, you know, overall we have to say Blucher aside.

[Al Murray]

Yep.

[James Holland]

Damage to their ships aside.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

They've won Invasion Day is the Germans.

[Al Murray]

They've won the 9th of April and Oslo's fallen. Denmark has capitulated in the meantime. And they've got air airfields. Yep.

[James Holland]

The two key airfields are Fornobo in Oslo, Solar and Stavanger and they've got troops ashore at all of the six landings.

[Al Murray]

But at the start of this series we made a promise that we were only going to really talk about the naval battle and we weren't going to get bogged down in the relentless, sad, grinding disappointment of the land campaign.

[James Holland]

And when it comes to submarine warfare, it's not all about ubaits.

[Al Murray]

No, no. So here we go. The Royal Navy submarine assets, which, of course, there are more of them than the Kriegsmarine have. Yeah, there's more, even though there's not very many. At 01:30 on 9 April, the Royal Navy submarine Sunfish, which is patrolling the Kattegat, spots the German steamer Amasis. And they're all ready to shoot. But they've got. They've got. They're not allowed to because they've got to surface and issue a challenge and say, do you mind if we sink your ship? If you don't mind awfully. Oh, boy. We have to sink your ship. But just as that, just as they're about to surface, just as they're about to go through the procedure.

[James Holland]

Make it up.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, I know. Signal one comes over to the left turn of Colonel Slaughter and it looks like aptly named, I mean, normative determinism signal, sir, just come in. German merchant ships east of 8 degrees east may be sunk without warning.

[James Holland]

To which Slaughter says, splendid. Signalman fire one boom and down she goes.

[Al Murray]

The Amasis goes down. And on the same day, the truant, another Royal AV sub, spots the Culls River.

[James Holland]

The cruiser.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. Heading home at 6.56pm, and opens fire without warning.

[Advertisement/Announcer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Al Murray]

Because he doesn't need to make a warning. And the Carlsruhe dodges the first salvo, but it's hit by the second. The torpedo strikes aft, wrecking the steering gear and causing a big hole in the keel. And down the Carlsruer goes.

[James Holland]

Yep. Good night, Charlie.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

The truant is then depth charged for 19 hours.

[Advertisement/Announcer]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

No, no good deed goes on and punished. Right.

[James Holland]

But. But guess what?

[Al Murray]

Yeah. That's extraordinary.

[James Holland]

And there's exciting news because there's RNAS Station Hatstone, which I went to visit the other day, just the other day. The Runway still there. There's a big hill coming just one side of it. So, you know, you don't want to be landing at Hatstone in a fog, that's for sure. It's just off Kirkwall, literally just off the northwest of Kirkwall on the Orkney main island of Orkney. And there are two squadrons of skuas there, Blackburn Skewers, commanded by Captain Artie Partridge, RM and Lieutenant WP Lucy rm. Yep. The senior observer is Lieutenant Commander Hare, so he's been loaned to Coastal Commander at Lossymouth which is near Inverness, near Elgin. And Hare has been over bergen early on the 9th of April and seen three Kriegsmarine cruisers. So he spotted the Home Fleet on the return leg and signaled to them what he'd spotted. And he arrives back at Lossamouth and immediately is bundled into a transport and taken back to Hatston. You're needed up there. Because his information that he passed on has been then passed on to Hatstone, has prompted Partridge to get permission for his two skua squadrons to take off for a dawn attack on Bergen. And by the time they get there and back, they're only just in range for the skuas. And the safe return is entirely dependent on accurate navigation in very bad weather.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

Are you sensing trouble?

[Al Murray]

I am, I am, James. Yes. I mean this is the, this is the interesting thing about Fleet Air Arm aircraft is, is the observer, is the navigator. They're called, they're called observers in the, in the Fleet Air Arm, but that's the navigator. Because the requirement for Fleet Air Arm aircraft, even, you know, when they're flying Fulmars off carriers as a fighter, it's, it's a two man crew. It's basically a fairey battle that's been sort of rejigged because you have to have a navigator. Because. Because you can't just fly up the Oxford to Bicester railway line if you're lost. You've got to be able to navigate in what, in a wide open space, the ocean. So I think they have in place what they need to be able to do this job properly. But it's extremely challenging.

[James Holland]

It's extremely challenging. And that is precisely why they want hair. Because he's done it.

[Al Murray]

He's done it and he's done it

[James Holland]

there back in successfully. Yeah. So 15 skewers head off before dawn on the 10th of April. What do you think they're going to manage to reach Bergen?

[Al Murray]

Well, I don't know, but. But in the meantime we need to

[James Holland]

get back to our old friend, Captain Bernard Warburton Lee.

[Al Murray]

Yes. Who's looking forward to his marmalade. And he is. He sailed into. If he gets it, he sailed into the Utford Fjord at around the same time as these skewers are setting off.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

And we, we left him at the very start of the first episode with this signal to signal to the Admiralty that he is going to attack at dawn and he's doing, he wants surprise and he's got the high tide that he needs to make the most of because he's a glide over Any mines increase his chance of dodging mines.

[James Holland]

But it's a dilemma for Whitworth, Admiral Whitworth in Repulse, because he's not with Warburton Lee's destroyers at the time of the exchange of the Admiralty. But he's been following the signals and Warburton Lee's flotilla are part of his force, but they're doing other stuff and he's wondering whether he should send one of his cruisers to go to give what would be a considerable extra weight of firepower. But by doing so, of course that would have delayed the operation. But also a cruiser is much, much larger than a destroyer. It's whopping in the narrow confines of the Ofot fjord and that would be very high risk if there are indeed U boats there. So he decides to let Warburton be an attack alone with his now five destroyers, despite them being ships that are smaller and notably less heavily gunned than those of the Kriegsmarine. So they'll be on their own, trusting to superior experience, skill and surprise.

[Al Murray]

That's, that's an interesting decision, isn't it? Yeah, it's quite a tough one on Whitworth's part. But, but I suppose, but I suppose,

[James Holland]

you know, we wait up.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, well, and it's that he must have great confidence in Warburton Lee.

[James Holland]

He's an old sea dog.

[Al Murray]

So Warburton Lee on, on the Hardy leads the way followed by Hunter and then Hotspur. And they're nearly hit by a fully lit up passenger steamer that passes in the early morning morning. Crikey.

[James Holland]

All the passengers waving. There's another ship. And on your left you'll see HMS

[Al Murray]

Hardy followed by HMS Hunter, followed by

[James Holland]

2 as yet unidentified British Roy. Yes, that's exactly what like.

[Al Murray]

But basically by the first dawn's early light, they're 15 miles from Narvik and well into the.

[James Holland]

And it's so atmospheric there. It's just, it's just brilliant. The mountains rising either side, the kind of inky dark fjord. Bits of snow, you know, still on the, on the mountains, then rain, then snow flurries, you know, absolutely driving wind from the east coming across the bridge. Open bridges of these, these class destroyers. I mean you can just picture it.

[Al Murray]

But Jim, you know, a bunch of destroyers sailing down a fjord. Did you spot that? Dead easy.

[James Holland]

Right, yeah, thought so.

[Al Murray]

You'd have thought so. However.

[James Holland]

Well, do you remember there's this one. So Bonte has sent off one destroyer to sort of keep watch at the mouth of the Offord Fjord and they're going to Take it in turns. But the Roda, which is the first one that's been sent down there, takes it upon itself to just return after a while because I had enough of this, you know, my replacement should be arriving any minute now. It's my turn to go and get some kip and, you know, oil. So he's already left. And incredibly, the British flotilla are less than a mile behind the rotor as it sails back towards Narvik, hidden by snow and mist, and the crew of the rotor never spot them.

[Al Murray]

That is absolutely amazing.

[James Holland]

Yeah, they're literally just tailing it.

[Al Murray]

They do find out pretty quickly because at 4:30, as Donald McIntyre's account said, at 4:30 in the morning, the fighting starts and the British open fire and they strike Bonters.

[James Holland]

I mean, this is right into Narvik. It's like a little small, narrow, little sort of inlet.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

At the head of the fjord.

[Al Murray]

And they've got in as close as they can and they start on Bonter's flagship, the Hyde Camp, which is at anchor, and she's struck by a torpedo fired by Hardy, explodes it, kills most, most, nearly everyone on board, including the commodore.

[James Holland]

Yeah. So that's him. He's gone.

[Al Murray]

Yep. Next is the Schmidt, also sinking as a result of a torpedo strike. And I mean, they're basically that, you know, they're anchored up. They're sitting ducks. It's dead easy. And several other merchant vessels are also hit in the, in the Collateral.

[James Holland]

Yeah. So the road has just arrived going, ah, you know, great. Get heads down, get some, get some Brekr. Yeah. You know, anchors down.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

Boom.

[Al Murray]

And she's straddled by shells and repeatedly struck and catches fire. So they have achieved Warburton. Lee has achieved total surprise and he's reaping the rewards of that.

[James Holland]

So that's, that's, that's two of the ten destroyers sunk and one in a really, really bad shape.

[Al Murray]

And the three leading British destroyers, they stay in and around Narvik. Hardy, Hunter, hostile for the best part of an hour.

[James Holland]

Hotspur, rather. Yeah.

[Al Murray]

Doing, doing just shooting stuff up, dishing, dishing this out. And there's still mist, there's still low cloud shrouding the fjord and the surrounding mountains, hiding the inlets and the smaller fjords.

[James Holland]

Yeah, you just can't resume.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, you can't see what's going on. And there's obviously lots of smoke from the fires and the gunfire. And Warden Lee, he's been expecting to encounter six enemy warships, and by his reckoning, they've done for five. Two have been sunk. The rudder was being hammered, is on fire. And the Kuna has had her engines put out of action from a torpedo strike. And the Ludeman has a gun turret destroyed and is on fire.

[James Holland]

Yeah, so they are in really big trouble.

[Al Murray]

That's half of them gone within an hour.

[James Holland]

And so at around 5:30, Warburton Lee orders the leading three ships to pull back out of Narva and steam back down the fjord, allegedly 15 knots, roughly half their maximum speed. And that's a mistake because there'd be 10 destroyers, not six. And this is why he thinks he's all right, because he knows there's more than one, and it's been reported there's six, but he's not anticipating 10. So three have been lying up in the Hur Yangsfjord, which is sort of spur off the main Offord fjord, off to the kind of northeast, and it's quite a sort of chunky inlet finger. And not until 5:15 had they been alerted to the attack, which is incredible really. I mean, what are they all doing? I mean, you'd have thought that the sound would resonate around the mountains and, you know, really, really easily. But anyway, be that as it may, they immediately weigh anchor, set off in pursuit, which means they're soon enough able to catch up as the British are withdrawing. And as soon as they're spotted, Warburton Lee orders them to increase speed to 30 knots. So the chase is now on. But the three German ships, the K, the Geyser and the Zenka, had yet to refuel, of course, because they Trojan horses haven't got one of them, the Jan Velen, they haven't got the other two, and they're almost empty tanks, so they're not be able to sail far. So it's a kind of, you know, it's Hardy Hunter and Hotspur going to be able to get away before they're within proper range. Anyway, a running battle is now underway, both kind of exchanging fire and hits. And it would have. It would have been okay had it not been for the last two ships, which is the Georg Tealer and the Von Arnim, which are lurking off Ballangan. And if you remember from the first episode, Ballangan is this little short, stubby inlet, like a, you know, the end of a thumb, which is to the south of the Ofot fjord, only a few miles away from, you know, sort of five or six miles away from, from Narvik. And they're able to strike the British destroyers as they steam past. And because of the earlier snow and mists. They'd remained unseen by Warburton Lee and his flotilla as they'd come up the ofop field. So they just haven't spotted them. And now the German 5 inch guns accurately straddle the Hardy Hunter and Hotspur and then start striking home.

[Al Murray]

So Warburton Lee's signal is keep engaging the enemy. That's his last signal, his last thought really. Moments later, shell strikes Hardy's bridge, killing pretty much everyone there, badly wounding the rest, including the captain.

[James Holland]

Oh God.

[Al Murray]

The paymaster, Lieutenant George Stanning, has one foot badly mangled and shrapnel up his leg, but he still manages to drag himself from the bridge to the wheelhouse and take command despite having no practical experience in the role. But that's the, that's the spirit of the Royal Navy, right. The ship's engines are seizing. It's clear to him that with the captain, navigator Cox and all dead or badly wounded, the only course is to ram the shore. It's another ramming episode and save as many of us as the crew of possible it. Meanwhile, the. The ship's still firing, is still engaging the enemy repeatedly hitting their Georg Tealer and the Fonarnin and the other ships in pursuit, even as she strikes, even as a kill strikes the shore.

[James Holland]

I've been to that very spot and it was so thrilling. It's very stony and pebbly there and you know, there's big rocks and stuff, so you can see how that would just absolutely rip through there if you're going there at kind of 20 knots.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, you're going flat out. Yeah, yeah. And the Hunter and the Hotspur are also severely hit, but they, they also carry on returning fire. The hot spur been severely damaged, was unable to avoid colliding with Hunter. Oh God. We've a blue on blue ramming incident now. They, they begin spinning.

[James Holland]

It goes in and they just start

[Al Murray]

going around, spinning around, around, around in the fjord with more fire pouring in onto it. And on the Hunter, the bridge was also struck, killing everyone in there and clearly doomed. It's super dramatic. Hotspur has done better though. She gets herself out of the sort of fatal embrace of the hunter and then zigzags clear. Pretty soon she's clear of the fire from the enemy ships at Ballingen. While those in pursuit from the Herjangsfjord, they have to turn back because they

[James Holland]

run out of fuel.

[Al Murray]

They're not properly oiled and that means that three of Warburton Lee's little fleet, second flotilla, can escape and get away. But the Hunter sinks off the Headland at Ballingham and the crew that rescued

[James Holland]

most of them come off.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But 10 die. 10 die of basically of hypothermia. What's really striking about this is we've talked about the Royal Navy. There's a lot more ships, they've got more of everything, they've got more experience. But in the end, when you fight, it's like this, it's, it's this absolutely shit or bust kind of fighting where if, you know, every ship that goes down is like a, you know, we talked about the bluca thousand people. It's half a brigade of soldiers. Yeah.

[James Holland]

And the interesting thing, I mean, this is the thing that you can be able to destroy and you never see any action at all or you see action but you never get hit or you're just lucky or whatever. But, but if you are in action and we saw this, didn't we, with the, with the pursuit of the Bismarck and the sinking of the Hood and everything, you know, the violence just could be catastrophic and it can be so sudden and so quick and your opportunities to get off safely when you're kind of all around, you are kind of incredibly cold waters is very, very small, you know, which is why the decision to ram the Hardy on the shore is such a good, smart decision because it means at least people can jump off onto the shore, at the very least. Anyway.

[Al Murray]

Well, we'll take a break because there are skuas aloft right now crossing the North Sea, preparing to put in their daring strike at Bergen. And we'll see you in a tick. Hi, this is Gary Lineker from Goal Hangers. The rest is football. This episode is brought to you by Wise. It's only when you start moving money between currencies that you really think about the exchange rate, the fee and what might be hidden away in the small print. Whether you're living abroad, paying someone overseas, or just trying to manage your money across borders, you want a fair exchange rate, an easy transfer and no surprises along the way. Wise keeps things simple. Wise is a smart way to move the currencies you need around the globe. It works in more than 160 countries and with over 40 currencies, most transfers arrive instantly. Wise uses the mid market exchange rate like the one you see on Google, with no markups or hidden fees. So when money needs to move, you can see the rate, know the fee and get on with it. Join millions saving billions on hidden fees by downloading the Wise app today. Be smart. Get wise T's and C's.

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[Al Murray]

Well hello there, mein Liebelings. Important news. Father's day. That's right. FatherTag is coming up on the 21st of June, and the one thing we know unites dads all around the world is just how much they love the Second World War. World War II. I mean, come on. So this year, why not buy your dad. Yes, an annual membership to the we have Ways Club. Treat your dad this Father's Day Father's Tag to early access to full series ad, free listening, bonus episodes, discounted merch, exclusive live streams with me and James Holland and much, much more. So just head to the we have ways of making you talk Patreon on Patreon. So head to we have ways of making you talk on Patreon and click on gift membership and that gift will land straight in your dad's inbox on the day. Yes, Fatus, tag, do your bit, fill your boots and sign your father up right now for World War II. Welcome back to we have Ways of Making youg Talk with Me, Al Murray and James Holland, of course. It's our third and final episode of the Naval Battle of Norway, which a consequential battle, an important battle. Well, the Royal Navy take Royal Navy taking losses, but of losses it can arguably afford. Kriegsmarine, on the other hand, is not so good. But we left before the interval with 15 skewers from Hatston on Orkney aloft heading for Bergen. And they are relying on dead reckoning to make this journey, aren't they?

[James Holland]

They are, absolutely. And Lieutenant Commander Harry's been there Done it and got a T shirt, so. And accuracy and no faffing around is absolutely that. They. They got a dash they can't deliver because the fuel situation is very, very tight. They've got to go there, do the business, get back again. And despite. Despite flying above the cloud and in the dark for most of the way and retiring, relying entirely on dead reckoning, they hit clear weather off the Norwegian coast and make perfect landfall at first light on the 10th of April. So as Hardy and co are unleashing their carnage at Narvik, so the Skuas are descending over Bergen. There's brief dismay because the cruisers that Lieutenant Commander Hare had seen the previous afternoon are nowhere to be seen. The Colne has already sailed the previous evening while the Koenigsberg had been shifted. Had shifted its berth.

[Al Murray]

They do that, those ships, don't they?

[James Holland]

So Weasley.

[Al Murray]

They do move.

[James Holland]

So Weasley. But then in the nick of time they spot the Konigsberg and they realise that it's just moved to a different jetty in the harbour and there are quite a few there at Bergen. There's different places that it could have moved to, so I can see why. So Captain Partridge then leads the squadron down in a steep dive and one after another they release their bombs and then begin climbing again. And not until half had finished their attacks did the German gunners start firing back. They've just again, they've been caught completely short, completely in surprise by surprise. And it's too late by that point because three bombs hit the cruiser while others hit the jetty and land close by before the last skewer speeding away. The Koenigsberg is already rolling over and sinking. And not one of the Skuas is shot down, although a single one of them does get lost on the return leg.

[Al Murray]

Amazing. That is amazing.

[James Holland]

Yeah. So the way we set that up, I felt we set that up in a way to make people think it was all going to be a complete disaster.

[Al Murray]

Yes, I think we. We probably did do that. Yeah. There's your proof of concept right there, everybody. Air power. Air power can. It works, can bring the pain in this. In this context. And that the Fleet Air Arm were right to. To pursue this avenue, particularly as the Germans have got so many, so few big ships. You take one out like this, that's probably economic, isn't it?

[James Holland]

So, you know, by my reckoning, well, they've lost a Carlsruhe, haven't they? Lost Koenigsberg, they've lost a Blucher, they've got damage To Hipper damage to Lutzo. They've lost five of the ten destroyers or. Or badly damaged or sunk 500 crying

[Al Murray]

into his corn flacken right now. So now at Narvik. So that's the air attack on Bergen at Narvik. The surviving crew are from. Hardy have managed to get ashore, although Warburton Lee, he's brought off the ship but he dies soon after of his wounds. So he'll never get that marmalade. The rest then.

[James Holland]

So that was the letter that we started. The whole series was. That is his last letter. He writes to his wife.

[Al Murray]

You know, those last letters that. Because he's. He, he. What he's not doing is saying, I, you know, we're up for it now. You probably won't see me again. He's not saying that. He's saying, I'm gonna. I need to sell that boat and

[James Holland]

please order me some marmalade.

[Al Murray]

Marmalade. They walk 15 miles up to Bellingham where there are no German troops. But there, small Norwegian cottage hospital. And here the Norwegians very courageously look after the wounded and help the survivors and feed and dry out the able survivors.

[James Holland]

And you think, well, how can that be with all those Gerbergs Jager in narvik. But it's 15 miles away. The Kobergs are going nowhere.

[Al Murray]

I mean, the thing is, this is this. And this is where the sort of the numbers come into play, right? We've lost Hardy and Hunter, two destroyers, right? Bad for the Royal Navy. But the damage they've done to the Germans in the meantime is genuinely catastrophic and shapes the war. You know, when we look ahead. When we look ahead to. To the sea lion. What ifs the invasion of Britain. What ifs after. After the fall of France. Here's one of the reasons it can't ever work is because they've taken such a kicking in terms of their destroyer capability and all those other major ships we were just talking about, you know, two destroyers have been sunk and the Arnim Tele and Rotor are severely damaged and they're no longer seaworthy, even though they're still afloat.

[James Holland]

That's really bad. Yeah, they're no longer, you know, it's a bit like sort of knocking out a Tiger tank without destroying it. Moment you can't operate it, it's. It's complete waste of time.

[Al Murray]

It's complete.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

It's no use to you at all. The Kuna has suffered repeated hits as a flooded magazine. So they've done that to stop it blowing up, haven't they? And while they. And the engines of the Ludermen are Caput. So only three of that flotilla of

[James Holland]

ten, caused by the damage of three smaller destroyers.

[Al Murray]

It's extraordinary. Only three are unscathed. And the Rhaunfels, which is a supply ship, ran into the three retreating destroyers and was blown up as well.

[James Holland]

I mean, it was such a massive explosion that debris went as high as 3,000ft into the sky.

[Al Murray]

But if your balance sheet favoured the British before this battle, a naval balance sheet, then it favors them even more.

[James Holland]

And what it means is the German destroyers have gone, the Jan Vellum has been sunk as well, I think, and they've got no means of getting out, they've got no fuel, they're running low of ammunition, and the Gaberg Jageger, which have been deposited onto Narvik, have got no means of resupply. So then there's a pause, there's a bit less dash and a bit more divot.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, there's caution and ponderousness is the word in the notes here. You'd think you've got momentum at this point, haven't you, if you're the Royal Navy.

[James Holland]

And yet they're still trying to wrest the initiative against the Kriegsmarine elsewhere, of course. And at 4:00am on the 11th of April, so the day after this attack, 18 swordfish, yeah, baby. They fly off HMS Furious. Finally, finally now part of Forbes fleet at sea to attack the Admiral Hipper, which has been spotted at Trondheim the previous evening. So when the Swordfish get there, they only find two destroyers and they think, well, okay, well, we haven't got the Hipper, but this is better than nothing. So attack them. But the water is too shallow and many of the torpedoes hit the bottom in the initial dive. So as you drop the dive, it goes down, then it has to come back up again onto the surface and it just hits the bottom and explodes. So the first airborne torpedo tack of the war is a complete dud.

[Al Murray]

But the first dive bombing attack on shipping has been a success. So, you know, swings and roundabouts for the Fleet Air Arm in this, in this encounter. Well, and that's, that's the case always. It's just the luck, it's the luck of the draw here.

[James Holland]

So Gneisenau, Scharnhorst and Hippo are now all heading back to Wilhelmshaven for urgent repairs. But all of them need it, all of them are in trouble.

[Al Murray]

So that's pretty much German service fleet cooked.

[James Holland]

But there's still the five Unsunk ships.

[Al Murray]

That's a great way of thinking about navy ships. They're just unsung.

[James Holland]

They're not.

[Al Murray]

They're just unsunk until they're sunk.

[James Holland]

That's why the unsung Kriegarina heroes. So they've now got. They've also got a new captain, Capitaine Eric Bay. Our old friend from the Battle of the North Cape.

[Al Murray]

Oh dear.

[James Holland]

Remember that. The Shanhorst.

[Al Murray]

Yes, yes. All these terribly fated individuals.

[James Holland]

He's another one. He's a marked man. He's a marked man and he's not terribly dynamic, that has to be said.

[Al Murray]

No, but he's taken command of the destroyer force and the remaining ships are trapped unless he moves them swiftly, which he doesn't. Well because he has to refuel them. Yep. There's one surviving oiler. They've got to fix the damaged ships, get them seaworthy and then. Then they're going to use bad weather, darkness and U boats to sneak out past the British in the Westfjord and beyond the UFOT fjord. And that's the idea anyway.

[James Holland]

Yeah, that's. That's the plan but. But it's going to take a little bit of time to fuel them from the one tanker that's there. I said the sunk. It hadn't at that point. So it's still there. And although all the ships are refueled and engines repaired, he then suffers a fervor calamity when the Zenka damages her propellers maneuvering around the wrecks in Narvik harbour. Because it's very congested there now and I can, you know when you're there you can.

[Al Murray]

Narrow confines.

[James Holland]

It's not a big. Narrow confines. It's not. It's not a big place. And the Kolna also suffers debilitating damage while refueling and makes herself unseaworthy. So she's waiting to be sunk. And it is difficult to maneuver within the narrow confines of the port of Narvik. But these are entirely avoidable it has to be said. And they're completely self inflicted own goals born of fatigue, frustration, inexperience, lack of training jitters too.

[Al Murray]

I mean it's really happening now, isn't it? And everything's difficult.

[James Holland]

And the British meanwhile are kind of reeling from the rapid German advances through southern Norway and uncertain now which plan to. To pursue. So they're back from dashing and now divvouring again. And there's just a general lack of clear, unified and determined decision making which I think is. Which has been undermined because the admiralty keeps butting in. So it's not until the 13th of April, on the morning of the 13th of April that the Navy return to the Offord Fjord and this time with four larger Tribal class destroyers. And there's five. Four further destroyers and the mighty battleship HMS Warspite. A personal favorite, it has to be said, of our producer JR who's fist pumping.

[Al Murray]

We're standing to attention right now. He's snapped erect to attention. He's saluting the grand old lady herself.

[James Holland]

Yes, yes, yes. And this is all under the command of Admiral Whitworth who has moved his flag from the Repulse to the war spite. And why wouldn't you? So the scene is now set for the second sea battle at Narvik. So Capitan Bay in the left corner is Capitan Bay with not a lot, it has to be said. He's only got two seaworthy ships, I think.

[Al Murray]

Oh, gripes.

[James Holland]

He knows the Royal Navy are going to come for them. Partly because German cryptanalysts had deciphered British naval codes, but also because it's blindingly obvious they would. So what do you do? You know, do you send off your two fit ones? That's what I'd have done. Well, you get the chance, they should get out.

[Al Murray]

Get the heck out of Dodge. Yeah, well, he hasn't live to fight another day.

[James Holland]

He tries to deploy the ships as well as possible. Who knows? The situation is completely hopeless. So there's a sort of Lutchen's defeatism.

[Al Murray]

Oh, no, I think I would lose my ships.

[James Holland]

My command must be very brief.

[Al Murray]

Royal, Nay, we are coming.

[James Holland]

But his only real hope is from U boats and both U46 and U48. This is Tilly Surin and Eric Topp. They're lurking in the offord fjord. And U47, Gunther Preen fame, he of the Royal Oak sinking in Scapa Flow the previous October. And. And there's others also other U boats in the Westfjord and at the entrance to the UFOT fjord. And the U boats hate operating here. It's too tight, too little room for maneuver. And of course, you know, you have to remember that these U boats, they're submersibles, not true submarines. So they're primarily about being on the surface. They're a surface vessel. For first and foremost, Eric Topp is on the U46. He's not happy.

[Al Murray]

The submarine is designed to be a commerce raider and requires vast areas of sea space to be effective. Deploying U boats in Norway's narrow fjords, however, vent against all experience and Common sense.

[James Holland]

He's a great writer, my God, honestly, he writes one of the great letters to every been written in the war a little bit later on. Anyway, that's all to come.

[Al Murray]

So basically they're easy targets in these sort of waters and they're not playing, they're not playing to their strengths.

[James Holland]

But a bigger problem, their torpedoes are dis.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, their stuff's crap.

[James Holland]

So U47, you know the battleship killer Guntherin, fires two torpedoes at Warspite. They both duds. Then U47 is nearly sunk in turn by vengeful destroyers. War Spike is attacked two more times but again the torpedoes fail to detonate and as a result Warspite is in. Is able to sail into the Ofot fjord unimpeded.

[Al Murray]

Here we go.

[James Holland]

Which is very bad news for Baezus Royers And I just. I would have done anything to witness Warspite sailing down the Ofot fjord. It must have been truly, truly magnificent. Okay, so the crippled Kilma has been towed to Tarstadt, which is an inlet just beyond Ballingen. And so the idea is that is for the Colonel to kind of. This is to the south. So as they come around there's a little headland and it's waiting just behind out of sight. So as the war Spike and the destroyers come into view it can fire at point blank range. But unfortunately for the Kolna.

[Al Murray]

Oh no. Yeah, it's a sad trombone motion.

[James Holland]

Yeah. She's only just reached the inlet at Jutvik, so 20 miles west of Narvik when she's spotted by Warspite Swordfish float plane late on the morning of the 13th of April. So as the leading ships, Bedouin and Eskimo turn the headland, their guns and torpedoes are trained at the ready. They know where it is. So they're absolutely. They've got one up the spout effectively they're good to go. And Karlna's bow is ripped off by the first torpedo and the rest of her is sunk shortly after without firing a thing. So that's three of the ten now at the bottom. So the remaining seven have barely begun moving before the rest of the British force are bearing down through the mist frost and the snow flurries.

[Al Murray]

I love this Jim, because the last big naval battle we did with the Bismarck was all this stuff at extreme range and this game of cat and mouse. This is much more like I see you, I think you how you imagine the sort of Nelsonian area where you've got to get close, you get eyes on you, get your guns on and Your broadsides as close as you possibly can.

[James Holland]

Must be incredibly thrilling if you're British. Yes.

[Al Murray]

Incredibly thrilling if you're British. And quite, quite scary. Scary. Let's go for that. Let's go for that. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, as you say, three of the 10 and out at the bottom of the fjord, the remaining seven barely begun to get themselves underway when the here come war spite and it like, like a sort of pack of. Pack of wolves coming down.

[James Holland]

Yes. Around the mother wolf.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. However, first of all, our favorite aircraft, Second World War, some Swordfish. They have to take that. They have to, they have to take their bow. They, they come in from HMS Furious, they swoop down and their job is to dive bomb the German ships. And I think it's quite interesting that we had a torpedo strike previously. They were, they were rolled in both roles as dive bombers and as torpedo.

[James Holland]

Yeah, but they're not really designed as a.

[Al Murray]

No, but, but the airframe has to be a. Cope with it because. Which means they've got folding wings and they've been used as dive bombers. That's how tough these, that's how tough and well, well built the Swordfish is.

[James Holland]

Yeah, but they're much more effective at flying in low and dropping to. Yes.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they, they don't, they don't hit anything on this attack either.

[James Holland]

No. Lose two.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

It's entirely fruitless. Although Eric Topp on U46, he finds the whole experience very unsettling. He's. He remains on the bridge manning a machine gun, firing madly. But he does see a bomb destroyer shed 50 yards away on the shore.

[Al Murray]

Only 20 yards away, one of our crew is instantly killed by another bomb, while another man is simply laid flat by the blast.

[James Holland]

It's also completely unnecessary, by the way.

[Al Murray]

Oh, come on. No, any attack involving Swordfish is necessary anyway.

[James Holland]

The German destroyers are still nursing the damage of four days earlier. Swiftly fire all their remaining ammunition. Now their stuff they haven't got anymore. They're done because their Trojan horses haven't turned up. Apart from Jan Velen, that's no good. So Bay then orders them to speed away into the narrow Rombaxfjord. And Rombaxfjord is just go north out of Narvik. There's a little headland. There's now a bridge over the mouth of it. And then you turn, you turn right, turn eastwards and there it is. And these are great big looming mountains coming either side of it. This is exactly when you're thinking of, of Norwegian Fjords. This is, this is what you, what you, you expect. It narrows to the very, very narrow point with another bridge and then it goes out into slightly widened lozenge of the, of the, of the fjord until it kind of. That's it, there's nowhere else to go. So the idea is to, is to, is to run them on the shore, get everyone off. But, but by going to Rombach's fjord you are admitting that that. Is that.

[Al Murray]

So the Kuna is dealt with by Bedouin tribal class destroy but the Warspite

[James Holland]

follows in to the.

[Al Murray]

I know, I know, it's, that's nuts, isn't it? Well, yeah, but you know, amazing.

[James Holland]

But you know there's no one else there.

[Al Murray]

Well, and they know it's not mined.

[James Holland]

You know it's not mined. There's no one else there. They haven't got any ammo and there's

[Al Murray]

no love to offer when you put it like that.

[James Holland]

Yeah, what's not to like?

[Al Murray]

And it's interesting though because obviously they're going to run them aground but the navy want to destroy them. The navy. The navy want the satisfaction of the, of the win, don't they?

[James Holland]

Yeah, completely.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. So.

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Yes.

[Al Murray]

So the Bedouin deals with Akuna and the Georg Teela fires one last torpedo that blows the bow off at the Eskimo last moment. How dare they ruin our fun.

[James Holland]

Amazing photographs of that.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. And then the captain runs her aground like the Hardy while the surviving through the Tsenka, the Fonarn Armin and the Ludeman they steam to the head of the field where they also run themselves aground. Yeah, I mean it's a feeble end for the, for this flotilla, isn't it?

[James Holland]

All ten gone. All ten.

[Al Murray]

And the crews escape. They're going join the Gberg Jaeger. That must have been embarrassing though being in those ships afternoon hanging out with those soldiers. Oh, you going to, you're going to.

[James Holland]

I might need your help.

[Al Murray]

Eskimo, despite a bow being blown off, remains afloat and she sails stern first back out of the fjord. Gets home, I mean sails across the North Sea.

[James Holland]

Yeah, well it gets, gets repaired in the mouth of the. I forget Harstadt actually.

[Al Murray]

Right, okay.

[James Holland]

Goes to Harshad which is around the headland to the north.

[Al Murray]

But still.

[James Holland]

Yeah, you know, it's quite a feat.

[Al Murray]

It's quite a feat. She's fixed and she'll end up fighting the Bismarck in May 1941. But basically what's happened here in the, in the waters of Narvik is that the Kriegsmarine have been absolutely. They've been routed in that one encounter. But then the battle in general, they've been gutted, haven't they?

[James Holland]

Yeah, they're completely destroyed. You know, half their destroyer force is gone. Yeah, half. You know, it is, it is. You know, this is a disaster which you can't possibly hope to recover really, But.

[Al Murray]

Right.

[James Holland]

And then there is now a golden opportunity to send in decisive numbers of Allied troops to fight and defeat the beleaguered German troops.

[Al Murray]

Well, that's really. We'll let the good times roll then, Jim.

[James Holland]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is shocking. So, you know, southern Norway's gone, but, you know, whatever the north can be held onto, can't it?

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Ah.

[James Holland]

And crucially, the iron ore railway line and the port lay there for the taking.

[Al Murray]

Oh, well, then this is great because at this stage of the war we need some good news for the Western Allies.

[James Holland]

Right, yeah. British, French and French Chasseur Alpin here. Very, very cool uniforms, by the way.

[Al Murray]

We are very good uniforms.

[James Holland]

They're very. They have fantastic jackets. They have monster berets.

[Al Murray]

Oh, berets are enormous.

[James Holland]

And they have great boots and they've got a pretty mean machine gun

[Al Murray]

because

[James Holland]

you know how the Tzurpoilli do not look cool. Yeah, they've got bad helmets and they've got bad trench coats. They just look awful. Not. So the Chasseurs Alpin and Polish troops and eventually landed, but they landed in different parts because it's very difficult to land them here. And obviously Narvik is in the hands of Gewergs here. I guess he's got to hand themselves elsewhere. Not least Harstadt, because they don't really have any landing craft. There's few beaches. Geographical remoteness and weather made the difficult task pretty, pretty hard. But they do and they take them. And the Gburgjeger are all but defeated. But in early June, the Allies have the opportunity to finish the job. But by that time, France is all but defeated. And this is just an effort they don't need. So I recall them. We'll go into that in another time.

[Al Murray]

Just got my hopes up there.

[James Holland]

No, we're going to another time. Well, they do, they do beat the Gurzjaeger, but they don't, they don't finish it off because they can't. And meanwhile, on the ground and in the air, I'm afraid Norway is a calamity for the Allies. So after the initial sweeping successes of the Germans, revised plan is hastily put in place. So in addition to landing troops at Narvik landings are also made at Namsos and Andalsnes, which is either side of Trondheim. So the idea is to kind of pinch out Trondheim. The idea is that while southern Norway might have gone, northern Norway could be held as a kind of sort of redoubt.

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Yeah.

[James Holland]

But it's a total cock up. Troops are lightly armed, undertrained. They're mostly TA battalions. Ammo and weaponry concentrate on ships, which means a number of them are sunk on the way. So suddenly, you know, battalions of infantry arriving without their trucks, without their artillery, you know, it's like schoolboy era. And also of course there's a lack of air support because distances are too far into lack of airfields. The only chance really of any success was narvik, which they nearly pull off until France gets defeated.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. But the British get to do some evacuations and we like that. We're good at that at this stage of the war. What are the ramifications then of the, of the, of this encounter? Because we have been saying throughout this series that it is, it's enormously consequential for the course of the naval war

[James Holland]

in terms of actual losses, not damage. 50% of the destroyer fleet, 50% of heavy cruisers, two of six light cruisers and six U boats are all lost. And then then literally all the major ships are hit.

[Al Murray]

All of which they can ill afford if what they're going to do is have this surface fleet Admiral Raider surface fleet successfully marauding in the Atlantic. That's what the plan was. That plan's over. It's, it's, it's gone. So that the double Pole strategy of a heavy hitting fleet and some those

[James Holland]

9,000 ton cruises and actually if you think it fast forward to the back end of 1941, Force K in the Mediterranean, Penelope and the Aurora, isn't it? Who were in Norway with four destroyers or two destroyers and they cause absolute havoc. That's what you need.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. And in the meantime, the other thing that's come out of this is the U boats which of course had to step down in the Atlantic three months round. Yeah. At a time where they would have been able to be incredibly effective because

[James Holland]

they wouldn't have had any escorts.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They've not hit anything in that intervening time because there's a problem with the torpedo. So they've discovered that at least. But they're. Then they're not in the Atlantic, they're in, they're in Norwegian waters. They're not fulfilling their actual role. This is a recurring theme in the history of the Second World War. And Hitler's understanding, strategic understanding, is how important Norway is, how important it becomes. And the Allies fathom this out pretty quickly and played to it. And an enormous part of the sort of later in the war, the deception effort that goes into tying up German troops and assets and stuff.

[James Holland]

Oh, my God. And also, I mean, you just look at the maps of all the gun positions that were all along Norwegian coast. It's, it's, it's such a tie for the Germans. It's a tie they can't afford.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. And every one of those gun emplacements is one you could have built in the French coast. Every single one that they haven't built on the French coast, they built on the Norwegian coast. And, you know, when you go to. When we went to Normandy and we stood those battery positions and you realize how inadequate they are, actually, if you're going to. If you're going to take on a serious Allied fleet, you need lots and lots of positions and they're all in Norway.

[James Holland]

So the lessons for the Royal Navy, meanwhile, are the vulnerability of warships to air attacks, which they're already kind of sort of aware of, but it really sort of underlines it less so the big capital ships, but destroyers and light cruisers. So The Luftwaffe sink one cruiser, six destroyers, 21 merchant vessels. And the other vulnerability is the insecurity of British naval signals. So the big blunder was their loose signaling during the Spanish Civil War, which preceded all this, of course, and which gave the B O Baktungsdienst, the B Dienst, the cryptanalysts, a head start. So for much of a Norwegian campaign, too many Royal Navy signals are being intercepted, which is not good.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. And the Germans remain very much on top of navy signalling for two, three more years as well.

[James Holland]

And I think the final lesson is not to get dopey, because HMS Glorious is sunk on 8 June while returning home across the North Sea. It's the last loss of the Royal Navy for the Norwegian campaign, but it's a really bad one because Glorious is an aircraft carrier.

[Al Murray]

It's a carrier with loads of Hurricanes

[James Holland]

on board, but there's no getting away from it on sea. The Royal Navy bests the Kriegsmarine and it's a very, very consequential victory.

[Al Murray]

I mean, if you're the, if you're the Kriegsmarina, you've got lot, you know, you've got lots to fear, you know that you know they're going to come for you even when they're out, even when they're outnumbered, you know, they're gonna, you know, they're gonna commit, they're gonna fight, they're gonna fight ferociously.

[James Holland]

And the amazing thing is, is when you do, you know, you go to the. The Oslo Fjord and you can see where the Bluka was. Bits of the Bluka still there on the side of the. Of the fjord. And it's just insane. And then you go up to Narvik and in the harbour of Narvik, there's one of the merchant vessels that was sunk. You can still see it popping up, just a little bit of rusty metal sticking out of the water. And then you can go and see the remains of the Georg Tealer, which is the one halfway down the Rombachsfjord, which is the one that fires off the bow of Eskimo before it rams onto the shore. And there it is upside down. And you can see the scarring across the bottom of the hull where it ran ashore. And it's amazing. You can only get there. There's a footpath that takes. There's a road. The road pieces out into a track and the track pins down to a. Into a. Into a path, and eventually you get to some kind of, I don't know, hydroelectric thing covered in, you know, surrounded by wire and there's a stream running down the side of it and you've got to scramble over some rocks. And then you can sort of get beyond towards the kind of wooded slopes of the Rombach, southern side of the Rombachs Fjord, and you can just see the kind of rusty metal. And when I went there with Daisy in March, we kind of said, well, it's a bit stupid, isn't it, going along here, you know, snow on the ground, a bit slippery, but we come this far, got to do it. So we picked our way across the stones and through the trees and slid down stones and over the snow and everything and got to the Georg Tealer. And there it was, this big rusting hulk of the hull sticking out of the water.

[Al Murray]

Amazing.

[James Holland]

It was absolutely amazing. And there it was. You just couldn't believe it after all this time. There it was. It's incredibly atmospheric. You could really see it. And then you could go on this railway and look down on the Rombachs fjord and see where the other last three were beached. They all got salvaged.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

So they're not there anymore.

[Al Murray]

Would you. Would you say, Jim, do you think this is the most decisive naval encounter of the Second World War?

[James Holland]

War? It's one it's got to be one of the most consequential, isn't it? Certainly the European war, you know, if it's a fa. It's just, it's just, you know, because U boats aren't there in the Atlantic. That's such a, that's such a gimme to them.

[Al Murray]

But also, but also.

[James Holland]

And also the hammering of the, of the Kriegsmer and it just leaves their whole strategy.

[Al Murray]

Well, yes, but, but then also their ability to improvise. Let's say they commit to sea lion. They don't just don't have the ships. I mean, I know they haven't got the landing craft. Everyone knows that, that they're gonna have to use. They have. No, I don't think they would have had anyway had this battle not happened, for instance, or had it turned out differently and they're not taken such heavy losses because they've still got the, they'd still have the. Basically the whole of the Royal Navy would have turned up to deal with an invasion from, from other. The other side of the planet. Every, Everything would have shown up to, to, to defend Britain in that instance. So even then the Kriegsmarine would have, would have not been effective. But they are, they really, really, really would not have been capable of pulling off anything that was being spitballed that, that summer. So in that sense, this is a, this is a, an incredibly decisive battle because had the threat of invasion been more credible, you know, the politics in England might, in Britain might have been quite different. Yeah, because that's always the thing. There's this.

[James Holland]

Yeah, yeah. It's like lurking, nagging thing, isn't it?

[Al Murray]

The politics of resisting. Because, you know, if the political will wasn't there to resist who, you know, who knows if the balance sheet have been different.

[James Holland]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, we should leave the fight this series with Warburton Lee, because he becomes the first VC winner of the war.

[Al Murray]

He does.

[James Holland]

There he is buried in the little cemetery at Ballingan with some of the other losses. I went and visited his grave on a kind of slightly rain, sodden morning. Sat there in the damp. It was amazing.

[Al Murray]

Well, thanks, Jim. Thanks everyone for listening. We hope you've enjoyed this series about the most decisive naval encounter, the Second World War. I'm going, I'm going with it. You're going with it?

[James Holland]

You're running with it?

[Al Murray]

Yeah, I'm running with it.

[James Holland]

I don't have a problem with that.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. Okay, good.

[James Holland]

I've got a book to write.

[Al Murray]

Thanks everybody for listening. We'll see you again very, very soon. Cheerio.

[James Holland]

Cheerio.

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Foreign.

[James Holland]

Here I always say, history never repeats itself, but a chalk? Well, it comes pretty damn close. So what better way to make the Great Escape this summer than with us in the Valley, with live music, theater and a lineup of inspiring speakers you won't hear anywhere else? You including Gull Hanger's very own Anti Scaramucci, Tom Holland, Saul David, Sarah Churchwell, Gordon Carrera, and of course, Al Murray. Oh, and plenty more besides. And the views from our hilltop glam site aren't too shabby either. So bring your friends, bring your family, and come and meet a few of ours, too. Head to chalkfestival.com to book your tickets today. Chalk History Festival 22nd to 28th June in partnership with Evelyn Partners.