"Spy Family" – We Have Ways of Making You Talk

Podcast: WW2 Pod: We Have Ways of Making You Talk
Hosts: Al Murray and James Holland
Date: October 8, 2025
Episode Focus:
This installment of "We Have Ways of Making You Talk" is a "Family Stories" special, where listeners share remarkable, moving, and sometimes humorous personal or familial tales from World War II. Murray and Holland present and respond to these accounts, weaving in context, warmth, and their signature blend of expertise and wit. The episode features stories about everything from chindits in Burma, friendship and sacrifice in Italy, eccentric tank commanders, the trauma of POWs, and a married couple who might have been spies.

Episode Overview

The main theme centers around ordinary families' extraordinary experiences during WWII. Through listener submissions, the hosts explore untold or lesser-known narratives, each shedding light on the personal ways in which the war touched people’s lives. A motif emerges: lives changed by service, loss, resilience, and the power of memory.

Key Stories & Insights

1. The Bolting Bronco in Burma

[02:45] | Norman Bell’s Story

• Norman shares a rare tale his father Les told about his service in Burma: tasked to exercise horses, Les ended up riding the one everyone knew to avoid. It bolted for camp at full gallop, but Les clung on—all ending humorously, apart from a scolding by his Sergeant.
• Key Quote:
  • Les, to the Sergeant after his wild ride:
    “No, I effing wasn’t [in charge of that horse].” (Norman Bell reading his father’s exchange; 03:20)
• Takeaways: Defines the mixture of danger, humor, and trauma service personnel carried home—Les developed a lasting snake phobia and hatred for the Japanese.

2. A Promise to a Friend

[03:43] | Peter Finch’s Story

• Chronicles David Roberts (Peter’s uncle), who served with the Royal Artillery and later the Hampshires, dying at Monte Gaudio, Italy.
• David’s last wish was for his shy best friend, Des Finch, to look after his sister Joan—Des eventually fulfilled the promise by marrying her.
• Key Quote:
  • “Des and Joan are my mum and dad, and my Uncle David is my family hero whom I will visit in 2026.” (Peter Finch, 06:35)
• Key Insights:
  • War’s deep bonds, the reverberations of loss, and the unexpected ways it forges new families.

3. Hogan’s Heroes – Real and Fictional

[06:53] | Will Hogan’s Story

• Will recounts the exploits of Samuel Hogan, the youngest US tank battalion commander. Courageous and renowned, Hogan led his men through crucial battles—Aachen, the Bulge, Cologne—and famous advances.
• Memorable tangent about a British major (Eton, Oxford, and Blue Blood), rescued and traveling with the battalion, likened to something from “Hogan’s Heroes.”
• Key Quote:
  • “This resulted in some hilarity which could be compared to the 60s show Hogan’s Heroes.” (Will Hogan, 08:18)
• Theme: The human (often absurd) moments amid chaos and grim times.

4. Life as a Child of a POW

[08:27] | Malcolm Allen’s Story

• Detailed recollections of growing up while his father was detained by the Japanese. The privations of home, rationing, the distant mystery of his absent father, and postwar adjustment are vividly described.
• Heart-rending details of POW conditions: disease, brutal discipline, makeshift dentistry, and the ever-present specter of death—alleviated only by the war’s sudden end.
• Light moments: Malcolm’s disappointment with his first banana, boyhood games, and his mother’s stoic resourcefulness.
• Notable Moment:
  • “You can shave that thing off,” said Malcolm’s mother as his father reappeared after four years away, sporting a new moustache. (Malcolm Allen, 13:50)
  • On the atomic bomb: “Dad, like nearly all the prisoners of war, said the atomic bomb saved his life because the machine guns on the camp perimeter were turned inwards, ready to execute them.”
• Powerful reflection on family, memory, and how war’s scars persisted long after homecoming.

5. The Air Attaché and The Lady’s Secret

[16:14] | Joe Poole’s Story

• Joe Poole connects personally with the podcast, relating her friendship with Daphne Hughes, widow of Flight Lieutenant Arthur Hughes (DFC, Legion d’Honneur, Croix de Guerre).
• Arthur survived being shot down in North Africa and later became a diplomat and air attaché. Postwar stories were mostly about him, but Daphne’s quiet mystery remains—her own war was unmentioned.
• Notable Moment:
  • Upon Daphne’s death at 94, a handgun was found in her bedside drawer: “Make of that what you will.” (Joe Poole, 17:37)
• Host James Holland reveals he also knew Daphne, sharing details about Arthur’s memoir, “Blenheim Summer.”

6. Chindit Adventures & A Family of Spies?

[18:35] | Chris Bryan’s Story

• Chris, inspired by a prior Burma episode, researches his grandfather Lance Corporal Ernest Bryan’s Chindit service with the 82nd Column, King’s Liverpool Regiment.
• Vivid descriptions of jungle combat, monsoon hell, valor, survival, and tragic aftermath: Ernest’s evacuation, struggle with trauma, and untimely death.
• Fascinating side note: Chris’s grandmother remarried—to a captured German Wehrmacht gunsmith, possibly making Chris the descendant of both Allied and Axis veterans.
• Key Insights:
  • The tangled legacies of war, cross-cultural aftermath, and the enduring impact on generations.
  • “Really interesting story, but that’s for another day.” (Chris Bryan, 20:23)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On promise and loyalty:

  • “So much so he married her when he came home.” (Peter Finch, about Des keeping his promise; 06:25)

• Humor in adversity:

  • “No, I effing wasn’t.” (Norman Bell’s father to the Sergeant; 03:20)

• On POW survival and existential stakes:

  • “Dad, like nearly all the prisoners of war, said the atomic bomb saved his life because the machine guns on the camp perimeter were turned inwards, ready to execute them.” (Malcolm Allen, 14:42)

• Mysterious legacies:

  • “Her tales of this time were very limited…a lady’s handgun was found in her bedside drawer. Make of that what you will.” (Joe Poole, 17:37)

• Global connections:

  • “Margaret remarried after my grandfather died to a German ex prisoner of war…That’s for another day.” (Chris Bryan, 20:23)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Bolting Bronco in Burma (Norman Bell): 02:45–03:43
• Promise to a Friend (Peter Finch): 03:43–06:53
• Hogan’s Heroes (Will Hogan): 06:53–08:27
• POW & Home Front (Malcolm Allen): 08:27–14:53
• Air Attaché & Mystery (Joe Poole): 16:14–18:35
• Chindit Adventures (Chris Bryan): 18:35–20:36

Tone & Style

The episode is warm, respectful, and, as always, punctuated by the hosts’ genuine awe at the listener-contributed stories. Al and James blend reverence for wartime sacrifice with gentle humor—providing context, empathy, and a sense of continuity between the past and today's listeners. Their banter and recognition of contributors’ family heroes create an inclusive, community-driven show atmosphere.

Summary

"Spy Family" is an episode that both commemorates and personalizes WWII history, offering listeners a poignant and at times unexpectedly humorous look into family memories and unsung acts of courage or folly. Through compassion, detail, and connection, the hosts keep the flame of memory alive, proving that the story of WWII is ultimately a collection of countless family stories—each as crucial as the last.