The Battle Of Britain: Attrition

Summary

WW2 Pod: We Have Ways of Making You Talk

Episode: The Battle of Britain: Attrition

Hosts: Al Murray & James Holland

Date: September 24, 2025

---

Episode Overview

In this in-depth episode, Al Murray and James Holland continue their detailed series on the Battle of Britain, focusing on the crucial “attrition” phase. The hosts unravel the shifting strategies, mounting pressures, and human stories on both sides as the battle became a grinding contest of endurance rather than swift destruction. The conversation explores the Luftwaffe’s missteps, Fighter Command's adaptive tactics, the psychological toll on aircrews, the strategic bombing tit-for-tat, and the unsung international pilots joining the fray. With their trademark blend of humor, candor, and deep historical knowledge, Al and James bring to life the nuanced, evolving reality of the air war over Britain.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The German Perspective – Letters from the Front

• The episode opens with a poignant letter from Leutnant Ulrich Steinhilper, a German fighter pilot, to his mother, sharing the emotional burdens, anxieties, and sense of duty felt by Luftwaffe airmen.
  • Quote:

    “During these last days I am frequently thinking of you at home, how you must be continuously waiting for news, and how easy it might happen that I should come to stay over there... Nothing but the call of duty will help survival. One knows that what one does has to be for one's country.” —Steinhilper, 27 August 1940 (02:07)

• [03:20] James highlights how the letter reveals German pilots’ inner lives:

  “German fighter pilots have feelings too.”

---

2. Luftwaffe’s Faltering Plan and Incoherent Strategy

• The initial blitzkrieg plan to destroy RAF Fighter Command in three to four days is failing – due in part to Britain’s unexpected resilience and the English weather.
  • [04:21] Al: “The direction of travel in that fighting is very much in favour of Fighter Command... Fighter Command’s losses are a fraction of the Luftwaffe’s.”
• The German press and populace believe things are going well, bolstered by propaganda and stirring songs like Bomben auf England. But pilots know the reality is different.
• [05:25] Notable humorous moment:

  Al quoting post-war Galland: “We pilots could not stand this song from the very start. But that’s after the war.”
  James: “Yeah, you’ve lost, mate.”

---

3. Leadership Discord & Tactical Missteps

• Goering's frustration grows as outcomes fail to match expectations or propaganda.
• [07:20] Goering scapegoats the fighter arm and proposes outdated or contradictory tactics, such as insisting on close escort for bombers—a reversal of his earlier stance.
  • James: “He’s finger pointing to hide his own deficiencies, isn’t he? The problem is he hasn’t got enough aircraft to do the job he needs to do, which is to pulverize airfields.”

Withdrawal of the Stukas

• [08:36] Goering withdraws the iconic Stuka dive-bombers—a tacit admission that key elements of Luftwaffe strategy are failing.
  • James: “Dive bombing is central to their whole bombing strategy. And he’s now withdrawing his dive bombers from the battle.”

Night Bombing Fails

• Attempts at night bombing are notoriously inaccurate—British industry escapes mostly unscathed.
  • [10:26] James: “In the whole of that time, only one night bomber claimed to have successfully hit the Rolls Royce works at Crewe, but actually hadn’t and got that wrong.”

Misidentifying Targets

• Luftwaffe frequently struck non-Fighter Command targets due to poor intelligence.
  • [11:35] Al: “Ford, it’s the Fleet Air Arm, ladies and gentlemen. It’s not even RAF at all.”
  • James: “The 21 biggest attacks on airfields and RAF stations since 13 August, nine, or just over 40%, were nothing to do with Fighter Command at all.”

---

4. Psychological & Strategic Turning Points

• A navigational error leads to German bombs falling on London (Millwall, Tottenham, Islington), breaching Hitler’s restriction against hitting central London.
  • [13:10] Al: “Hitler and Goering have both ruled out bombing London ... The next morning Churchill and the War Cabinet say, right, well we’re going to attack Berlin then.”
• The British retaliate by bombing Berlin—doing little physical damage but delivering a psychological shock and forcing the Germans to divert resources for defense.
  • [16:55] Al: “It actually means this is the beginning of a big distortion of the German war economy. You’ve got to defend Berlin.”

A Missed Off-Ramp for Germany

• Hosts discuss (from [17:23] onward) the missed “off-ramp” opportunity for Hitler—how at this point, Germany could have disengaged, declaring victory and shifting focus, but instead becomes entangled in a war of mutual escalation.
  • Al: “Extracting yourself is, for the Germans, basically impossible. ... They maintain the war with Britain as much as Britain maintains the war with Germany.”
  • James: “They’ve already lost the Battle of Britain, the Germans.”

---

5. The Battle Becomes Attritional – Human Cost and Tactics

Bomber and Fighter Command Casualties

• [25:53] Churchill’s speech (“on no part of the Royal Air Force does the weight of the war fall more heavily than on the daylight bombers”) is discussed.
• Shocking losses for Bomber Command: 693 aircraft lost since 10 May, 191 since the fall of France, and 235 men just in August.
  • [26:35] James: “235 men just in August.”
  • Al: “It’s a shocking business. The fighter pilots are the poster boys ... But look at the losses.”

Rules of Engagement and British Adaptation

• 11 Group (Fighter Command) meticulously hones tactics – not about chasing kills, but maximizing survival and preserving seasoned pilots.
  • [28:56] James: “Only a minimum number of squadrons are to attack, engage enemy fighters ... The most important thing is not to be on the ground when the Luftwaffe come ... Priority is survival.”
• Rotation of Polish and Czech squadrons into action is carefully staged due to language and communication needs.

---

6. Describing the Chaos of Combat

• The hosts vividly recount a dogfight from the point of view of Flight Lieutenant B. Beaumont of 87 Squadron, showcasing the confusion, violence, and split-second decisions in the air.
  • [34:41] James: “He sees 109s are already in amongst them. So it happens so quickly, this sense of sort of the melee and the sort of conflict fusion of it all. ... You’re getting some victories, but they’re getting some victories.”

Luftwaffe "Experten" and Culture

• Contrasts between German and RAF pilot cultures are discussed: Germans promote ace-worship and elaborate dress (Knights Crosses, uniforms), while RAF promotes team effort and modesty.
  • [35:26] Al: “The Germans have this culture of experten. The idea is your experienced pilots—squadrons are built around them. ... Galland is a team player as long as he’s captain.”
  • [37:19] James: “But has anyone heard of Eric Locke? ... They were 1 and 3 in the highest scoring aces in the Battle of Britain.”

Endurance and Exertion

• The physical and psychological toll mounts:
  • [37:53] James, referencing pilot Clive Denny: “Seriously, you don’t want to be flying more than an hour a day in this. ... Fighter Command ... might fly four sorties. ... There are Luftwaffe fighter pilots flying five or six times a day.”

---

7. Mutual Exhaustion and Stalemate

• Both sides, by late August 1940, are reaching breaking points—attrition is grinding down pilots, machines, and morale.
  • [37:43] Al: “Both sides by this last few days in August 1940 are really feeling the strain.”
• RAF remains resilient and able to rotate, while Luftwaffe feels the brunt of operational pressure and mounting losses.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• James:

  “He’s finger pointing to hide his own deficiencies, isn’t he?” (07:51)

• Al:

  “You’re using a land army-supporting weapon to try and perform a task the other side of a strip of ocean in a strategic role. They’re trying to re-roll and they can’t do it.” (11:11)

• James: (on bombing Berlin)

  “If you’ve got anti-aircraft guns over Berlin, they can’t be on the battlefield.” (16:58)

• Al:

  “Extracting yourself is for the Germans ... basically impossible. ... They maintain the war with Britain as much as Britain maintains the war with Germany.” (19:41)

• James:

  “Only a minimum number of squadrons are to engage enemy fighters because obviously the more you engage, the more casualties you’re going to have.” (29:11)

• Al:

  “We always said the British are ruthless...” (27:08)

• James:

  “You’re getting some victories, but they’re getting some victories. ... Suddenly you get these reminders that it is about the man.” (34:57)

---

Important Segment Timestamps

• 02:07 – Steinhilper’s letter sets a personal, emotional tone
• 03:20 – Introduction to the “attrition” phase
• 05:31 – Galland’s war-weariness and Goering’s pyrrhic pep talks
• 08:36 – Withdrawal of the Stuka, Luftwaffe’s strategic reversal
• 10:26 – Night bombing failures and British industry’s resilience
• 13:10–13:38 – Accidental bombing of London, Churchill orders Berlin raids
• 16:55 – Strategic impact of Berlin bombings
• 17:23–19:57 – Discussion of missed off-ramp for Germany
• 25:53 – Churchill’s speech; Bomber Command bears immense losses
• 28:56 – Park’s evolving defensive orders; focus on pilot survival
• 34:41–35:10 – Eyewitness account of a dogfight: confusion and loss
• 35:26–37:28 – Luftwaffe experten culture vs. RAF team ethos
• 37:53–38:07 – Exhaustion of pilots highlighted
• 39:01 – Episode wrap-up and preview for next installment

---

Episode Summary

Al Murray and James Holland deliver a rich, well-paced account of the Battle of Britain’s grind phase. They dissect the Luftwaffe’s overconfidence, logistical and intelligence blunders, and the growing exhaustion of their aircrews, contrasting this with the RAF’s stubborn defensive tactics and the adaptive, pragmatic leadership of figures like Park and Dowding. They trace the tit-for-tat of bombing between London and Berlin, showing how psychological and propaganda fronts became as vital as material ones. Woven throughout are evocative personal stories, from nervous letters home to the brutal realities of air combat. The episode closes by emphasizing that by late August 1940, the battle has already reached a decisive, if unrecognized, turning point—Germany’s hopes for victory fading as attrition grinds down both sides and the war of nerves and willpower takes center stage.

---

Next Time: The hosts promise to chart the shift towards Battle of Britain Day and the next evolution in the campaign.

---

Transcript

[Al Murray]

Thank you for listening to we have ways of making you talk. Sign up to our Patreon to receive bonus content, live streams and our weekly newsletter with money off books and museum visits as well. Plus early access to all live show tickets. That's patreon.com we haveways limu imu and.

[James Holland]

Doug here we have the Limu Emu.

[Al Murray]

In its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating.

[James Holland]

It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug. Uh, Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us. Cut the camera.

[Al Murray]

They see us. Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings vary undertaken by Liberty Mutual insurance company and affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts for a limited time at.

[James Holland]

McDonald's, get a Big Mac Extra Value meal for $8. That means two all beef patties, special.

[Al Murray]

Sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a.

[James Holland]

Sesame seed bu and medium fries and a drink.

[Al Murray]

We may need to change that jingle.

[James Holland]

Prices and participation may vary. Starting a business can seem like a daunting task unless you have a partner like Shopify. They have the tools you need to start and grow your business. From designing a website to marketing to selling and beyond, Shopify can help with everything you need. There's a reason millions of companies like Mattel, Heinz and Allbirds continue to trust and use them. With Shopify on your side, turn your big business idea into sign up for your $1 per month [e-mail] specialoffer in the afternoon we had a free hunt in the area of the Thames Estuary and the number two Stafel was attacked out of the sun by some hurricanes in a dramatically short time. Three of the 109s were diving down trailing smoke. I saw this clearly and when the enemy came diving through, I managed to push one to the side and get away from the chief's tail, getting a few shots from behind. Then my rotten hund took it up, firing with cannons. Kuhler got another in front of his guns. Then we beat it, satisfied with two more victories. But there is no reason to be glad when some of our people are missing. Mother, during these last days I am frequently thinking of you at home, how you must be continuously waiting for news, and how easy it might happen that I should come to stay over there. Sometimes I wish, and please don't get upset by this, that I had nobody who would be grieving for me or who would have to bear the pain of hours and days waiting for news. I am writing to you to ask that you never do that you shouldn't believe that we are wanton or careless in our flying. If we were, we wouldn't last long here. Nothing but the call of duty will help survival. One knows that what one does has to be for one's country. And I'm glad that I'm permitted to do it, should I get through this, for I shall be proud of it. And that was a letter to his mother by Leutnant ulrich Steinhilper of JG 52, written on 27 August 1940.

[Al Murray]

Welcome to we have Ways of Making youg Talk with Me, Al Murray and James Holland, episode four of our Battle of Britain series. Now we're into the attritional phase.

[James Holland]

We absolutely are. And as that letter revealed, you know, German fighter pilots have feelings too.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, they do, but, you know, they started it. The thing is, is in our last episode, we laid out how that what the Luftwaffe is attempting to do is in four days, three days, maybe four, destroy the RAF over. Over England. And of course, they've not had three days, maybe four of the weather to allow them to do that.

[James Holland]

So.

[Al Murray]

So immediately there is a hitch. But also the direction of travel in that fighting is very much in favor of Fighter Command. Fighter Command's losses are a fraction of the Luftwaffe's losses. And Fighter Command's ability to make good those losses, to replace the pilots and to replace the airframes it needs and fix the airfields that are attacked and to maintain the early warning. The RDF systems that are in place, they're in excellent shape. Obviously there are days of great anxiety and obviously it's no fun being attacked by the Luftwaffe like this in what seems like a random and uncoordinated effort. And the reason it seems like that.

[James Holland]

Is because it is.

[Al Murray]

It's because it is.

[James Holland]

But. But if you're German, it's all going swimmingly. Yeah, because that's what's being reported in the press.

[Al Murray]

That's also their attitude, you know, that the fact that he says nothing but the call of duty will help. You know, we're not reckless or wanted in our flying. He's telling himself and his mother that things are. Things are going swimmingly.

[James Holland]

Yes, yes. I mean, you know, but as he. As he writes in context to that letter, they all knew that it wasn't by. Even by that stage. Yeah, but you know, I mean, as with in British cinemas or American cinemas, you know, you have your major feature film, but you also have newsreels beforehand. They're repeatedly playing a song in Germany called Bomben auf England, which is a suitably stirring march, accompanied by footage of Stukas diving and, you know, down on ships and 109s tearing over the white cliffs of southern England and all the rest of it. And it's got a very catchy tune and lots of people are kind of sort of in the streets sort of repeating this and chanting it. Comrade, comrade. Get the enemy it ran. Bombs on England. Do you hear the engines singing? Get the enemy in your ears? It is ringing. Get the enemy. Bombs, bombs, Bombs on Ingerland.

[Al Murray]

Well, I mean, Galland after the war, said we pilots could not stand this song from the very start. But that's after the war.

[James Holland]

Yeah, you've lost, mate.

[Al Murray]

I think there's every, every chance that Galland didn't mind it at the time.

[James Holland]

Yeah, well, Galland has been summoned, so. So it's now not just the kind of major commanders that are being summoned to Currenthal, it's also the, the more junior commanders too. And Galland is already in a bad mood on the 17th of August by the kind of faulty tactics and close escort of bombers and all the rest of it, when suddenly he's, he's, you know, he's given the call. So he flies to Berlin on 17 August and then finds himself kind of sort of completely transported to what feels to him like a completely different world. You know, people are just sort of, you know, out in the streets happening, going about their business, and no one seems to be interested in the kind of the life and death struggle that's going on across the Channel. Beautiful weather, you know, Germany swathed in peaceful serenity. You know, it seems to him that the burden of the German war effort is now resting on the kind of shoulders of him and, you know, his fellow comrades in the Luftwaffe. Anyway, he goes off to, goes off to Carinhall on the, on the 19th of August, joined by his fellow junior commanders, but also Kesselring, Milch, Jesonic and are all in attendance. And Goering's frustration with the way the battle's going is absolutely clear, even though all those present at the conference are insisting they've inflicted huge and very crippling losses on the RAF by this stage. But they clearly haven't destroyed the British fighter force or the RAF will stop in the three days as planned.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, I mean, and they know that because every time they turn up, they're attacked by fighter command. So they're expecting, clearly expecting every day.

[James Holland]

Bombers are going over and hitting airfields.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. But they're clearly expecting some sort of magical sortie when they get exactly where they get to Kent and there's no one about. But it hasn't happened yet. Goering is, he's groping around for, you know, other people's mistakes. So tactical reasons for things having gone wrong. He says it's the, it's obviously the fighters who are to blame here.

[James Holland]

Well, it can't be the dive bombers.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. Can't be the store. Yeah. And because he's a fighter pilot as well, he has some. He could claim expertise. Right. Yeah. And then he says what we need is three gripen of fighters should protect one group of bombers.

[James Holland]

Yeah. Which he's already done on the 15th, hasn't he? Yeah, yeah. His conference on the 15th, when. On the day that was supposed to be bad weather, but actually was sunny. And you know, he reiterates this, you know, close escort of the fighters, which is exactly the opposite of what he said a month earlier.

[Al Murray]

Well, but this shows because he was right a month earlier. But he doesn't know he was right. You can't credit him with having got it right, really.

[James Holland]

No, he's finger pointing to hide his own deficiencies, isn't he? You know, the problem's the bombers, not the fighters. The problem is he hasn't got enough aircraft to do the job he needs to do, which is to pulverize airfields. You know, these are huge areas. They're sort of 100 acres in size of grass. You know, you need a hell of a lot of bombs. General Weifer, you know, in 1936 he was the chief star of the Luftwaffe, was planning a long range heavy strategic bomber force, you know, four engine heavy bomber force. And he dies. Gets taken over his position, takes over by Castle Rich.

[Al Murray]

Even if they'd had that, they wouldn't have had enough. They wouldn't have had enough.

[James Holland]

They wouldn't have had enough because the.

[Al Murray]

Task is too enormous.

[James Holland]

But clearly dive bombing, on which they've put so much emphasis, their bomber strategy for the war isn't working.

[Al Murray]

That's become apparent during the Canal Kampf and then into the Luftwaffe.

[James Holland]

He says, I'm now going to withdraw the Stukas. Yeah, that's an incredible decision. When you think, you think the whole German bomber policy of the Luftwaffe is based around dive bombing. First of all the Stuka. Then to give dive bombing capabilities to the Ju 88, they're now developing a heavy bomber, the Heinkel 177, which now has to have dive bombing capabilities. Dive bombing is central to their whole bombing strategy. And he's now withdrawing his dive bombers from the battle.

[Al Murray]

He Thinks he can turn it around right. With these new measures, but obviously it's not going to happen. There aren't enough fighters to provide these also.

[James Holland]

He's just giving some bonkers, totally bonkers instructions. So he says, you know, right now we're gonna, we're not just going to attack the airfields, we're also going to attack the aircraft industry as well. So during the day these should be carried out by lone raiders. He says, yeah, the odd ju88 or whatever, making the most of cloud to enable them to carry out surprise attacks. But the point is if it's cloudy, you can't see the target. So that's, that's problematic. You know, opportunistic attacks mean they don't use their, their guidance techniques, which is nicobine and excavate, which are sort of radio guiding beams. Beams exactly. Which need to be fixed beforehand, which you need a lot of aircraft for. So that doesn't work. Further attacks are going to be carried out at night, but the problem is, is that night bombing attacks haven't been any more successful than those of the British. That is not really very much at all. So for example, between the 14th and 23rd August, the Bristol Aeroplane Company at Filton near Bristol has been selected to tap eight times. But bombs only fell on it twice and none of them actually hit anything critical. And in the same period, the western Rolls Royce and Gloucester works had also been picked out nine times. But only two of these missions had bombs landed within five miles of their target. In fact, in the whole of that time, only one night bomber claimed to have successfully hit the Rolls Royce works at crew, but actually hadn't and got that wrong.

[Al Murray]

Right.

[James Holland]

So in other words, there's just not enough bombers.

[Al Murray]

Well, and it's bloody difficult. This is really, really hard what they're trying to do.

[James Holland]

You know, clearly the best way is to go in low and on your own. But. But as that attack on middle Wallet proved, the rub is you then get shot down yourself.

[Al Murray]

But navigation at low level is very hard anyway, you need a rolling map, you can't tell where you are.

[James Holland]

So clearly precision bombing doesn't work. So the only way you can be a do effective bombing is mass bombing over an area in 1940.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, well, I mean, it's interesting to see the Luftwaffe arrive at a conclusion pretty much straight away that the, you know, the British take a long time to come to this.

[James Holland]

But the problem is, is that's mass bombing and they don't have mass bombers. Yeah, yeah, they got 100 or a few hundred at any one time. But they haven't got a mass.

[Al Murray]

The Luftwaffe problems stem from the people who are in charge of it. Right.

[James Holland]

Yeah. And the terrible intelligence.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. And the fact that you're using a land army supporting weapon to try and perform a task the other side of strip of ocean in a strategic role. They're trying to re roll and they can't do it. The 18th, you've got Croydon, Thorney Island, Ford and Polling are the four principal targets. Croydon's a fighter airfield. Fair enough. Thorney island is a coastal command station. Ford, it's the Fleet Air Arm, ladies and gentlemen.

[James Holland]

It's not even RAF at all.

[Al Murray]

And Polling is an RDF station. But whole point of RDF is there's so much overlap anyway so that they can do their range cutting, but you can knock one station out, but it's covered anyway and can be repaired. So everything they're doing well.

[James Holland]

It's amazing. The 21 biggest attacks on airfields and RAF stations since 13 August, nine, or just over 40%, were nothing to do with Fighter Command at all.

[Al Murray]

But then, if you don't know Fighter Command exists, you might make that mistake.

[James Holland]

Well, this is intriguing. It's not really clear whether Schmidt and Luftwaffe High command do know whether the commands or not, but there's no mention of it, so it suggests that they don't.

[Al Murray]

Anyway, Goering makes his pep talk, which. And he's been doling out some medals at this occasion as well. Isn't he? So Galland is decorated. There is a sort of bauble culture, certainly, if you. If you fall under Goering's purview, he'll give you some medals that'll keep you happy. They'll shut you up and it kind of works. Lots of these people are susceptible to that. That stuff. But basically he says at the end of this, and your Goering is better than mine.

[James Holland]

So we have reached the decisive period of the air war against England. The vital task is to turn all means at our disposal to the defeat of the enemy air force.

[Al Murray]

Again.

[James Holland]

Yes. Haven't we already been doing that? Exactly, exactly. Anyway.

[Al Murray]

But there's a critical moment and we've just talked about how difficult night bombing is. How precision bombing is, is basically, you know, it's a complete misnomer. There's no. There is no such thing as precision bombing. 24th, 25th of August, several German bombers, they're trying to hit the air.

[James Holland]

No one seems to be able to hit Rochester.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, no one could.

[James Holland]

I mean.

[Al Murray]

Where is Rochester? I'm not entirely sure. Maybe that's the problem.

[James Holland]

Somewhere on the Medway.

[Al Murray]

Exactly. There you go. And they mistake the Thames for the Medway on their way to Rochester and they hit London. They drop bombs on London in Millwall, Tottenham and Islington. Yeah. And interestingly, Hitler and Goering have both ruled out bombing London. Central London. Certainly they've said we can't do that. Interesting. The Nazis are concerned about escalation against Britain because they also imagine a bomber can always get through situation. The next morning Churchill and the War Cabinet say, right, well we're going to attack Berlin then.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

Because they don't know this is an accident. This means that Bomber Command then makes its way to Berlin and this is an interesting escalation and that completely accidental one.

[James Holland]

Well, there's a really interesting fellow who's involved in this. He's got Group Captain Tommy Elmhurst. He then later becomes Air Commodore. Yes, Tommy Elmhurst and is Mary Cunningham's right hand man. That's right. When they both move out to, to join the Desert Air Force. Yeah. And sticks with him, you know, the creation of the first Tactical Air Force.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, all the way through.

[James Holland]

All the way through. But at this point he's working at the Air Intelligence and he's one of the guys from Air Intelligence. He's on the Joint Intelligence Committee, jic, which still exists to this day. And he thinks this is a terrible mistake because he says at that moment, you know, on the, on the 25th of August, the Luftwaffe raids on the Air Force haven't really caused huge amount of damage in the scheme of things. And so he thinks, well, it'd be quite good if they continued. On the other hand, any attack on Berlin is bound to bring retaliatory raids on London, which he then thinks might actually prove pretty bad.

[Al Murray]

Well, yeah, because. Because after all, people are very, very worried about bombing civilians and the political effect it'll have.

[James Holland]

Yes, yeah, yeah, exactly. So he mentions his fears to the Deputy Chief of the Air Staff who then puts his case to the Prime Minister. But, but you know, the war is not to be swayed.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

So you know, Bomber Command has been sending over bombers over Germany since the night of the 16th, 17th of May 1940 and have sent way more bombers over Germany at nighttime than Luftwaffe sent bombers over Britain. Yeah, by miles. Over the past few months they've been spraying bombers all over the place. They haven't really hit anything, although they did have one success when they hit the Dortmund Ems Canal on the night of the 12th, 13th of August. And 10 days later the Canal is still blocked, but they do go over on the night of the 25th, 26th of August, it's complete. Dam Square squib, really. 50 bombers sent Berlin swathed in cloud, they can't see anything. Only a handful of bombs actually fall on the city. They destroy a wooden summer house and they wound one person on the way back. Having encountered heavy winds, the Hamptons particularly struggle to get back. Three are lost and three fallen. Three going, six down.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

But anyway they're still sent again on the night of the 28th, 29th of August and this time some Wellingtons are included. At this point, of course, crews are flying completely independently, given absolutely zero guidance about how best to get there. So there's no kind of, you know, dodge the flak at the Hook of Holland or anything like that. You know, off you go and just see what's what. Again, they don't cause a huge amount of damage. 12 people are killed, 29 wounded, a little bit of building damage caused. There's an American journalist in Berlin at the time called William Shahri, book about it all. Doesn't think that Berliners are affected at all. Yeah, except that there is some psychological shock to this.

[Al Murray]

Well, Goring has famously said, you've bombs hit Berlin, you call me Maya. And there's, there's some disagreement about what he means by Meyer because that can, that, that's like a German surname like Smith, Smith or Williams or Jones or whatever. Or is he saying it's a Jewish name and you can call me a Jew for doing, for letting this happen. But, but Berliners call him Meyer, they, they take him at his word. And of course the German press, this is a fantastic piece of propaganda, isn't it? Look how cowardly the British are. The British talk about high moral all plane, but here they are bombing civilians, all this sort of stuff. But it actually means this is the beginning of a big distortion of the German war economy. You've got to defend Berlin. So you need anti aircraft guns, you need to build shelters, you need to, you need to crack on, that's the point.

[James Holland]

And if you've got any aircraft guns over Berlin, they can't be on the battlefield.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, exactly.

[James Holland]

You know, and, and 18, you know, shelters, huge shelters for 18,000 people. That's going to cost you.

[Al Murray]

It's going to cost you.

[James Holland]

Exactly. So for either a fourth time on the 31st, 30th, 31st of August, aiming for Tempelhof. Again the damage isn't considerable, but again it proves that Berlin is far from impregnable. That's the key point. It reminds the Germans that the war's not over at all. And the idle of the victory summer has sort of been shattered.

[Al Murray]

I mean, do you think at this point in the Ukraine war, there's always certainly in the sort of. Once it obviously was working out for the Russians in the first of year. There's a lot of talk of off ramp ramps. Off ramps for Putin. What's his off ramp? No, clearly not interested in off ramps. But what's Hitler's off ramp at this point? Do you. Because he's control. He controls the German press. The Goebbels controls the press. They'd be able to say, well, you know, we're going to leave the British Empire to stew and discontinue this, because this is going nowhere, this campaign of theirs. They're frittering away and absolutely the orator.

[James Holland]

On their knees are just about to win.

[Al Murray]

No, Jim.

[James Holland]

One last effort.

[Al Murray]

No, Jim.

[James Holland]

One final push.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, but this is the. But this is what's so interesting, isn't it? Because I think, you know, we, we often talk about, when does Germany lose the Second World War? And you're like, Christmas 1941 is here. Well, this is where we're now. We're now escalating our estimation of that. But the point. They've lost the Battle of Britain. They've already lost the Battle of Britain, the Germans.

[James Holland]

Hitler knows that he must beat Britain or lose the war.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, but isn't there another way, Isn't there another way out for him here? Because. Because the British government is also reliant on German aggression at point to shore up its current policy and position. Right. Entirely reliant on German aggression. You know, Churchill needs Germany to struggle with it.

[James Holland]

Why do you think they're attacking Berlin?

[Al Murray]

Well, yeah, exactly. It's just so. It's just so interesting because if the Germans had any clear sense of what's going on, they, they'd sack this off now. They'd say, Britain is irrelevant. It's a faded power, it's done. Our concern is the continent of Europe. And then they kind of leave Churchill hanging. And how can he could possibly maintain a continued aggressive position? How can he entertain the Americans in a continued aggressive position if the Germans don't carry on being aggressive? Do you see what I mean? Yeah. And that there's actually a moment, there's a moment here.

[James Holland]

And Hitler, because he controls the media, he just says, I've decided actually not to bother with Britain anymore.

[Al Murray]

Exactly. And the media go, britain is irrelevant. We've subdued the raf but there's still bombs on England. No, but they can say, they can say we've won, they can lie about how they've won, but they don't. Because there never was a strategy ever in any of this. Because it's a one long tale of mission creep. This. Yeah. That extracting yourself is for the Germans is, is basically impossible. And I think this is a really interesting. You know, because it's a turning point for the British. Yes. That they, that they defeat the Germans. It was a turning point for the Germans that they can't extricate themselves from this. And they maintain, they maintain the war with Britain as much as Britain maintains the war with Germany. Do you not think?

[James Holland]

Yeah, I do. I completely agree with you. It's obviously the sensible thing to do because if you're not going to win immediately, that's very much the German way.

[Al Murray]

Just sack it off. Chain the Luftwaffe when you attack the Soviet Union and once it's gone stale, gone cold with Britain.

[James Holland]

But it's also assuming that your enemy hasn't got a vote. And you know, this is, the point is actually that warehouse have been flying over continually. And they're not just flying over Berlin, they're not just flying over targets in Germany. They're also attacking airfields and you know, they're flying over Germany nightly and even Italy. Blenheim's particularly are continuing to do daily missions on those airfields in the Pas de Calais, that target rich environment. You know, on the 23rd of August for example, 19 Blenheim sent over.

[Al Murray]

I tell you what, if I have to pick being in fighter or bomber command at this point, picking fighter command every single day of the week because this is terrible, terrible bloody work. The crews are really copping it and.

[James Holland]

You know, they don't really know what to do. They don't know whether they should come out, you know. So they're now going off in pairs Y so, so one's going in at 20,000ft, the other's cruising at 50ft. You know, I mean it's sort of, you know, the idea is to sort of pull off the defense from one and then attack with the other. I had the diary of, of Arthur Hughes who was a flight lieutenant in 18 Squadron flying in Blenheims. Then he writes in his diary, it sounds all right in theory, but against the sort of flak defense Jerry's have and their almost instantaneous response, I doubt whether an aircraft climbing from 50 to 700ft a relatively low speed would stand an earthly. Yeah, that's the problem.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. And they switched to night bombing.

[James Holland]

They switched to night bombing. And then he writes, night ops in good weather is seemingly less dangerous than daylight hit and run. And perhaps more effective. At least it will keep the blighters awake.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

And it's quite right. And you know, there's plenty of evidence suggests that bombers coming over at night is keeping the Luftwaffe are awake because they talk about it when they get captured.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

And their conversations are bugged up at Trent Park.

[Al Murray]

They can't find the targets because the low cloud, this high cloud covering the moon. You know.

[James Holland]

But the bottom line is, you know, yet again, you know, we've said it before. Say again. You know, this is. This is all new.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

I mean, we were kind of working there. Working it out.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

But clearly going over in daylight is not good. But there's a point for the Luftwaffe of that. That because they've got new airfields, because they've got an air defense system. How do you protect your airfields while the others are out attacking Britain? Well, you have to have two back defending the airfields.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

So you have observers on the coast.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Holland]

You know, they raise the alarm. You are as a pilot strapped into your. Into your Messerschmitt109. As soon as someone gets a call, off you go and you try and intercept that plenum. But that's not great because that's two planes that then can't be flying over England.

[Al Murray]

Well, should we. Should we take a quick break? Yeah. And then well return with the battle. Continue it considerable intensity. We'll see you in a moment. Cheerio. Well, I was down on my last.

[James Holland]

Dollar Then I started saving Cuz the.

[Al Murray]

Bank said fiscal restraint is what you're craving. So I put my earnings in a high yield account Let the savings compound and the interest mount. I'm optimizing cash flow putting debt in check. Now time is my praying and not a pain in the neck and we've got a little cash to rebuild the old deck.

[James Holland]

Boring money moves make kind of lame.

[Al Murray]

Songs but they sound pretty sweet to your wallet.

[James Holland]

PNC bank brilliantly boring since 1865 Ford was built on the belief that the.

[Al Murray]

World doesn't get to decide what you're capable of.

[James Holland]

You do. So ask yourself can you or can't you? Can you load up a Ford F150 and build your dream with sweat and steel?

[Al Murray]

Can you chase thrills and conquer curves in a Mustang?

[James Holland]

Can you take a Bronco to where the map ends?

[Al Murray]

An adventure begins Whether you think you.

[James Holland]

Can or think you can't you're right.

[Al Murray]

Ready, set, forward. Welcome back to we have ways of making you talk, Episode four of our Battle of Brit series. This is the point for the Germans to throw in the towel and give up.

[James Holland]

But they're not giving up.

[Al Murray]

They're not going to do that.

[James Holland]

And what's really clear is, is that the fighter pilot, Luftwaffe fighter pilots that particularly, are feeling very pushed upon. Yeah. They're being overworked, overflown. They're not being appreciated. And, you know, I think it's also. It's interesting that the Luftwaffe has a. Has a far greater culture of sort of talking shop.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

Than Fighter Command. So Fighter Command, you know, once you stood down for the end of the day. Don't talk about it.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

You know, go off and think about something else. But that's not the way, you know, you. After. After the Luftwaffe has stood down, you write up your reports and all the rest of it. I mean, Oberleut and Heil Herman. I'm a fellow. I was.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

Met several times. Terrifying individual. But, you know, he would spend his evenings writing up papers on his theories of how bombing should be conducted. And, you know, spent most of his time in contemplative study every evening. Then in the first group of JG52, which is where Ulrich Steinhelper is, you know, there's a huge amount of tactical discussion amongst the pilots. And, you know, they'd have supper in the evening once they stood down, and that'd be eaten in and around their bell tents. And then they would sit and talk.

[Al Murray]

Talk.

[James Holland]

And, you know, maybe some wine, a glass of wine or two. But. But there still be. Just talking shop.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

And Steinheil would. All of the pilots, NCOs, and officers would gather and lively discussions would usually ensue. These were generally toned by the events of the day. Losses would quieten us down and bring a mood of introspection there as success would bring in a surplus of energy and excitement.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. Rather than tomorrow is another day.

[James Holland]

Yeah. But they're all really pissed off about the close bomber escort, which makes no sense. You know, these are the guys having to do the fucking flying. They know. They know what they're about. They know this is a terrible idea. And it's really interesting, isn't it, that later on in the war when. When Ira Ecker insists on close escort for the fighters, it doesn't work. Doolittle comes in in January 1944 and says, forget that. You know, your job is to take out any fighters you see and strafe the airfields, which is exactly what they should have been doing in 1940. So it's kind of in reverse. It's really interesting how the same mistake is repeated. Most believe that they should be having free hunts.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

That they should be allowed to go off and attack what they want and clear the skies ahead of the bombers. Then comes Churchill's great speech at the 20th of August. He knows this is a sort of big moment in the air battle and repeat his line about the feud. But he also singles out Bomber Command, I think, which is interesting.

[Al Murray]

On no part of the Royal Air Force does the weight of the war fall more heavily than on the daylight bombers.

[James Holland]

Well, he's spot on about that.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. I mean, yeah, because. Because he's seen the casualty figures, he knows exactly what's going on and proportionally they're sky high, aren't they? I mean you. And you think if you go to Hendon, the RAF museum Hendon, look at that. Look at the fairy battle single engine and it's a Merlin but on a much bigger plane than a Spitfire Hurricane. There's three chaps in, in there. The pilot, radio operator and a rear gunner. I mean that is. That is no joke. And. And the, the losses they take trying to hold the Vermacht up.

[James Holland]

I mean just look at them since the 10th of May.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. 693 aircraft lost. 191 since the fall of France so they really. They've really, really, really.

[James Holland]

235 men just in August.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, It's a shocking business. The fighter pilots are. The poster, the one of the guy.

[James Holland]

Laughing, he's got the head with his leather helmet on and all the rest of it. And that's the one that's on picture post. It is the iconic picture of a member of the few. Gilman's only 19 at the time and it doesn't appear on picture post until the 31st of August by which time he's been killed six days earlier.

[Al Murray]

God, really sad.

[James Holland]

Yeah. Flying on the 25th of August.

[Al Murray]

God, imagine being his family.

[James Holland]

Well, they don't know he's dead at that point. He's just missing.

[Al Murray]

No, but they know he's missing. I mean it's there he is absolutely cruel.

[James Holland]

We always said the British are ruthless. We've got the after action report for that because he's in 32 Squadron with Pete Brothers flying Hurricanes. 12 Dornier 215s escorted which they were in their 70s escorted by about 36 ME 109s were intercepted at 14,000ft south of Dover Squadron Leader Crossly shot down a Dornier 215 in flames and sent an ME109 spinning into the sea. Flight Lieutenant Proctor shot down an ME109 in flames off Cap Gunais. Pilot Officer Rose was shot down, was downed and bailed out, landing in the sea, but was rescued after one and a half hours. Pilot Officer Gilman is missing.

[Al Murray]

That's it.

[James Holland]

That was it. But while the kind of sense of panic might have gone and the sense that the British are getting used to this and the chatter of machine guns overside this drone of engines and contrails high above the Sierra Leone skies, etc, etc, and kids are rushing around capturing bullet casings, there is this respite between the 19th and 23rd of August where Park and down in particular could sort of dust themselves down, patch up the airfields, rotate some squadrons. Exhausted pilots can catch up on sleep and all the rest of it. There is also a sense that the. There's more to come. And Dowding and Pot very much feel on edge about pilot shortage or experience. Pilot shortage, that's the big thing. So on the same day that Goering has his conference at cornhole on the 19th of August, this is where he's berating Galland and then sort of giving him the medal. At the same time, Air Vice Marshal park of 11th group takes the opportunity to circulate kind of his new instructions to his ground controllers in 11th group. And this is really interesting because park is repeatedly adjusting things. His whole idea that he's rigid and can't sort of change his tactics is not true. He's, he's honing, he's fine tuning. All the time. Yeah, all the time. And high on the list of orders not to venture far from land. Don't go out oversea. You know, we cannot afford to lose pilots through forced landings in the seas.

[Al Murray]

Yes.

[James Holland]

And as a rule of thumb, partner orders Spitfires direct against the enemy fighters and Hurricanes against the bombers. At the same time. Only a minimum number of squadrons are to attack, engage enemy fighters because obviously the more you engage, the more casualties you're going to have. So you want to keep them to absolute minimum. You need to protect your airfields. So really the most important thing is to not be on the ground when the, when the Luftwaffe come, obviously you want to shoot them down, but actually shooting down is not the priority. Priority is survival.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

And it's not that he's worried about numbers of Spitfires and Hurricanes. He's worried about pilots.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

So if you're not in a fight, you're not going to get shot down.

[Al Murray]

Because they're in for the long haul. They're not trying to win this in three or four days. No. Like the other side, it's about holding on. Yeah. What they've also been asking is that 12 group, which is the. Which is the mid north, middle of England, so East Anglia, Mercia, Wales, that stripe across the middle of of the country, they're being asked to protect airfields. Yeah, they're being scrambled to protect airfields in 11 groups. So once 11 groups aircraft are up, you then protect the airfields. So the controllers are calling 12 Group to the fight. And this going to become a bone of contention, isn't it?

[James Holland]

Yeah, it is going to become a bone of contention because 10 group do exactly what they're asked to do and 12 group basically don't. But they've also got another asset, which is the Poles and the Czechs, which are signed, come in. And the big problem with them has been language because this is a system you have to have where you're being ground controlled. You have to be able to understand this is not a free for all flying. So the Germans might be able to kind of incorporate a different language squadron, but Fighter Command cannot until. Until they can all understand what they're being told. Yeah. So this is why there's been these teething issues now. The polls are all checks, all chomping a bit, wanting to get going. But there is a reason for this. So they bring them in gradually. I think 302 at Duxford gets in by literally about the 20th of August, something like that. But 303 squad is a little bit later spaced at Northolt in 11 group. And what they are allowed to do now is patrol inland airfields and patrol North London.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

Particularly when the oldest, you know, the more experienced British squadrons are refuelling on the ground.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

But they are slowly but surely being brought into.

[Al Murray]

The other issue, if you're a Polish pilot, is the throttles are the other way around, isn't it?

[James Holland]

Yeah, yeah. So you've got to learn all this. You've got to relearn things. And, you know, it is vital that, you know, there is this sort of sense that the kind of. The British are all too conservative and too stuffy and therefore, you know, not using this fantastic asset. That is not the point. There's a very, very good reason for not using the Poles until they do.

[Al Murray]

Because you're being directed onto target. The idea is everyone knows where everyone is. If you're just randomly tooling around, you might be mistaken for German Aircraft, even though we do have IFF and we do have Huff duff and all that sort of stuff by, by the Observer Corps, you might be mistaken for someone else. Yeah. And so fighters might be directed onto you and you waste time and effort in the process. That's the point. Everyone needs to know where everyone is because that's how the downing system works.

[James Holland]

Quite right. Anyway, the air battles renew with a vengeance on the 24th of, because suddenly the weather clears again. So Manston's so heavily bombed that it's decided to completely evacuate it. At that point, nine people are killed at North Weald, which is just on the junction of the M11 and M25. Now if you happen to be driving around, you sit on the right hand side as you're heading up towards Cambridge. And on that same day, Flight Lieutenant B Beamont of 87 Squadrons coming back from a 48 hour leave. And he drives straight to the perimeter track to see how B flight are getting on before heading into Exeter to get changed. But actually they're scrambled immediately and just after five o' clock he hastily puts on his main western harness over his uniform and dashes to his Hurricane, takes off of the rest of them. So 16 aircraft in all and they're now flying finger fours, which is really interesting. So speed towards Warmwell and B. Beamont spots eight dots which then become twin engine bombers, then another five, then another six, then another five. And before he knows where he is, there's a hundred of the bastards. And he's desperate, scanning the skies for enemy fighters. And as he does so, the squadron tear into the leading bombers and Beamont opens fire on a Dornier 17, which he sees roll over and just after one burst and head down to the ground. And he now wonders whether he should be using the speed of his dive to make a split turn and then head back into fray. But glancing back at the lines of tracery, he sees 109s are already in amongst them. So it happens so quickly, this sense of sort of the melee and the sort of conflict fusion of it all. So he continues diving and when eventually pulls out briefly blacks out a result of negative G. Now he's around 5,000ft above Dorchester, but up above him he looks up and you can still see this sort of incredibly confused action flying on. And suddenly a hurricane, a burning hurricane, hurtles past him, a livid ball of flame followed by a wheel leg from a bomber. So again it's sort of incredibly violent. He climbs back up again. Season 109 Dart from a Cloud Evidently intent On heading back home sneakily so Beamont turns on his tail, the German blight spots him and breaks left. But he fires across the turning circle and the German kind of half rolls and dives and Beaumont follows him, unleashes another burst. And this is the crippling blow on the 109. And suddenly it's slowing. And the 109 is trying one more turn, but Beaumont is positioned for the kill. And so the German deliberately stalls and drops and he dives down and side slips into a field near Abbotsbury with a sort of thick trail of smoke following him down. And Beamon watches it hit the ground. And the Messerschmitt slews amidst a cloud of dust and smoke. He then circles over and sees the pilot clamber out on the wing far into his machine with his flare gun. Flames lick from the cowling and then the German raises his hand, you know, as well, Beamont roars over him. And actually we know who this pilot is. He's Gefreiter broker from the first Staffel JG53. Amazing.

[Al Murray]

But he's already been set upon by a Spitfire. Yeah, and another Hurricane.

[James Holland]

As far as Beaumont's concerned, he's. He shot him down, but he hasn't. He's already been hit.

[Al Murray]

Then he flies back to Exeter, finds a squadron are back. Sergeant James Cowley's been shot down and wounded. And then. And then, I mean, this is a terrible postscript. Yeah. Peter Comely flies in. He's the last man back in his Hurricane. And as he's approaching the airfield, his plane suddenly flips and dives towards the ground. And it's been completely shot up and he's. He's basically not made it at the last gasp.

[James Holland]

I found that particularly kind of striking episode because as always, you know, you. You're getting some victories, but they're getting some victories, you know, on one thing. It may be the machine, not the man, but you suddenly get these reminders that it is about the man.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Holland]

Then on the 25th of August, you know, there's some super races emerging amongst the luftwaffe. Galland is one, Helmut Vick is another. He claims two on. On the 25th to the previous day. He's now the leading scorer in the Luftwaffe with 22 in the battle of Britain.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

He's awarded the Knight's Cross a couple of days later.

[Al Murray]

But the Germans have this culture of experten. The idea is that your experienced pilots squadrons of staffell and are built around them. The idea is you. You let the ace do his Thing and everyone else is his wingman, basically. So in this essence, Galland is a team player as long as he's captain.

[James Holland]

Right. And everyone knows that people want to be. Want to be the expert and you're not allowed to flaunt it, but everyone knows that that's what they're secretly doing.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

You know, and you're accused of being. Having a sore throat.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. For wanting your knights crossed.

[James Holland]

Yes.

[Al Murray]

And they're also known as Durdle, or there's the other end of the scale, which is. Which is canal crank, where you're. You're channel sick. You're sick of the English Channel. It goes in both directions, that, doesn't it? Because some people. For some people, that means they're desperate to get across and shoot the enemy down. For other people means they are really obsessed with the fact they're flying over the sea and they hate it.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

There's the two ends of the scale, isn't there? Yeah. Encouraging the sort of superhero pilot. And then the other poor schlubs at the end are meant to cover his tail.

[James Holland]

Exactly. The other thing about, you know, this is Gurring's mob. So he likes his costumes and he likes his good look and they're the newest, shiniest part of the act and, you know, he wants them to look good. So they all have a dazzling array of uniforms. You know, they have leather jackets and dark blue summer jackets and they have britches and leather trousers and boots and, you know, all sorts of stuff. Whereas, you know, the RAF get a blue suit, basically. And the kind of nod to their own exceptionalism in the. In fighter command is that you have the top button undone, rather, you know, that's your sign on your suit. And you don't have to wear a tie because you're constantly craning your neck. So you don't want to get. You don't want to get chafing around your neck, both sides. You become an ace when you've shot down five. But it's. It's an unofficial thing. You get a Distinguished Flying Cross when you've got five.

[Al Murray]

Well, and the idea is that it's a team effort, isn't it? There are aces.

[James Holland]

Well, I think most of you know, anyone who knows anything about the Battle of Britain might have heard of Ginger Lacey, but that was mainly because he wrote a very famous book.

[Al Murray]

Yes.

[James Holland]

About his time.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. But.

[James Holland]

But has anyone heard of Eric Locke?

[Al Murray]

No.

[James Holland]

Has anyone heard of Arthur McKellen?

[Al Murray]

No.

[James Holland]

Okay, well, they were number two and they were one and three in the highest scoring aces in the Battle of Britain.

[Al Murray]

The contrast in cultures is really, really. It's. It's everything, isn't it? Yeah. And everything in the mismatch, as it were, you know, the area.

[James Holland]

But there is a commonality. The commonality is that both sides, by this last few days in August 1940.

[Al Murray]

Are really feeling the straight.

[James Holland]

Really feeling the straight.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

The expectation on these young men flying these planes is absolutely enormous. Yeah. And I thought it was really. Do you remember when we were talking to Clive Denny?

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

He's flying a Hurricane and he was going, seriously, you don't want to be flying more than an hour a day in this.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

You know, these guys are Fighter Command less. So occasionally you might fly four sorties. You know, one or two might be an X rayed, which is, you know, something that turns out to be nothing.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. You know, they send a couple of you up to have a look. Yeah, yeah.

[James Holland]

But, you know, one time a day is quite a lot. Two times is more. Four times. You're really, really pushing it. There are Luftwaffe fighter pilots that fly flying kind of five or six times a day because of this pressure on the fighter pilots to escort the bombers.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

And there's not enough of them, which means they're having to fly more to maintain the effort with the bombers.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah. And, of course, the German campaign is supposed to have ended by now. They're being promised jam tomorrow, aren't they? And there is none. And every time they go, someone's lost and doesn't come back. Whereas an RAF squadron might go into the air, someone might get shot down, but he might turn up that evening. There's not a sense of invulnerability in Fighter Command, but there's at least a sense of regeneration and a possibility of regeneration. Whereas it, you know, it's all very fun once you head across the Channel, if you're a Luftwaffe pilot, that could be the last time anyone sees you. Pressure's mounting. Berlin has been bombed.

[James Holland]

Yes.

[Al Murray]

Which means the gloves are off in terms of what might happen with bomber forces going forward. And in our next episode, we'll look at how the battle shifts and how we make our way towards Battle of Britain Day.

[James Holland]

Yep.

[Al Murray]

Thanks for listening or watching. If you've enjoyed this. And don't. And don't want the adverts, mate. I mean, if you got this far with the adverts, I mean, what are you doing? You're wasting your time. Become a patreon of. We have ways to make you talk that will open the door to all sorts of extra goodies, extra extra feature episodes, live streams and much more. And of course, if you're an Apple officer class member on our podcast channel, we have ways to make you talk. Podcast channel. You too can experience this without being dangled. The enticements of capitalism. And by the time this has gone out, we have waistfest Funf will have happened. V for victory.

[James Holland]

So it's too late to invite you tonight.

[Al Murray]

Well, I know. So come to we have ways fest sex next year. I finally got to say it. Thanks for listening once more. Tally ho. Cheering.

[James Holland]

You are not luminous, Watson, but you.

[Al Murray]

Are a conductor of light.

[James Holland]

Here they are.

[Al Murray]

Dr. Mortimer, I presume? Yes. Hi. John.

[James Holland]

Dr. John Watson.

[Al Murray]

Who is your client?

[James Holland]

He was my client, Sir Charles Baskerville. Keep reading. A local shepherd.

[Al Murray]

Noted.

[James Holland]

I saw first that of the maid.

[Al Murray]

Hugo Baskerville passed me thence on his.

[James Holland]

Black mare, and there behind him, running mute upon his track, such a hound of hell that God forbid should ever be at my heels.

[Al Murray]

I wish I felt better in my mind about it. It's an ugly business, Watts.

[James Holland]

An ugly, dangerous business. And the more I see of it.

[Al Murray]

The less I like it. I shall be very glad to have.

[James Holland]

You back safe and sound in Baker street.

[Al Murray]

Past one. Hello, Doll Hanger presents.

[James Holland]

You're not Sherlock Holmes. I'm Henry Baskerville from one of the.

[Al Murray]

Biggest audio dramas of all time. Does it bother you? Like in a creepy kind of way?

[James Holland]

Like in there's an evil giant hound that likes the taste of Baskerville. Some kind of way, the seminal gothic.

[Al Murray]

Novel by Arthur Conan Doyle.

[James Holland]

They're watching.

[Al Murray]

Who?

[James Holland]

Who?

[Al Murray]

We're watching.

[James Holland]

It's not safe.

[Al Murray]

I could just make out its pitch black form. Welcome to deepest everything, a hellish void. Darkest for this piercing yellow glow of eyes. Dartmoor. What do you want?

[James Holland]

Of giant fangs?

[Al Murray]

No, Sherlock and co.

[James Holland]

The hound of the Baskerville. Listen now. Five stars, says the I Paper. Hugely popular, says the Guardian. A successful reinvention of Holmes for a younger generation, says the Times. Search Sherlock & Co. Wherever you get your podcasts.