The Battle Of Britain: The Defeat Of The Luftwaffe

Summary

We Have Ways of Making You Talk

Episode: The Battle Of Britain: The Defeat Of The Luftwaffe

Hosts: Al Murray & James Holland
Date: October 1, 2025

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Episode Overview

This sixth and concluding part of the Battle of Britain series chronicles the dramatic final phase of the battle—from the Luftwaffe’s assault on London on September 7th (“Black Saturday”) to the eventual defeat of the German air arm by the end of October 1940. Comedian Al Murray and historian James Holland provide a vivid, human account of the conflict’s turning points, the pilots’ experience on both sides, and the strategic decisions that ensured Britain's survival.

Blending first-hand accounts, operational detail, and their signature banter, Al and James separate myth from reality about the battle’s climax, assess just how close Britain came to defeat, and highlight the immense strain and ingenuity that defined Fighter Command’s stand.

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Major Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Final Phase: Luftwaffe’s Switch to London, 7 Sept–31 Oct (00:32–02:10)

• Context: The Luftwaffe, failing to destroy RAF Fighter Command, pivots to bombing London—a period marked by relentless raids and increasingly fierce RAF resistance.
• Operational Strain: Both British and German pilots face mounting fatigue and loss. James reads from Lt. Ulrich Steinhilber (JG52), who flew seven combat sorties in one day — "seven hours of combat flying" [00:32].

Quote (James Holland, 00:32):
"Instead of the promised reduction in fighter opposition over England…[the Luftwaffe was] slowly but inexorably bleeding to death."

2. Black Saturday & Personal Accounts (02:19–06:47)

• Battle in the Air: Tom Neil of 249 Squadron experiences the chaos and exhaustion, engaging vastly superior enemy numbers. His vivid description likens attacking a bomber formation to "a gnat…coming in against the hide of some vast creature."
• Heavy Losses: The RAF sustains frightening attrition: six pilots lost in one sortie—"the dispersal hut seemed empty that night" (Tom Neil, via James Holland, 05:44), with 25 aircraft and 16 pilots lost that day.
• Imminent Invasion Fears: That very day, British intelligence signals “Cromwell”—alerting forces to prepare for an invasion, undeterred by the chaos within German command.

Quote (James Holland, via Tom Neil, 05:44):
"The dispersal hut seemed empty that night."

Quote (James Holland, 06:47):
"Invasion has to be considered imminent…hundreds of invasion barges photographed in the Channel…German spies caught landing in rowing boats."

3. Life on the Ground Between Sorties (07:19–13:27)

• Base Life: Biggin Hill and other airfields are described as battered, with resources so tight that even officers are ‘lightly pilfering’ supplies.
• Squadron Camaraderie: Stories of wild nights at the pub, coping rituals, and the peculiar culture in each squadron; for some, heavy drinking; for others, strict discipline.

Quote (Al Murray, 09:10, citing Brian Kingcombe):
"Just put on a tin hat and strike a hostile attitude."

• Importance of Recovery: RAF pilots rotate out for leave—a Dowding-insisted policy vital to morale and fighting effectiveness, in contrast to the Luftwaffe's relentless pace.

4. The Psychology of Combat & The Value of Experience (13:27–16:59)

• Pilot Mindset: Discussing “imperturbability” and the sixth sense developed by seasoned pilots, with fascinating anecdotes from both sides.
• Practical Tricks: Tales of pilots sanding down their aircraft for imagined performance boosts, and counterintuitive advice like flying through tracer fire to upset enemy aim.

Quote (James Holland, 14:26, relaying Pete Brothers' advice):
"Suppose you see tracer passing your left…the instinct is to turn away from it…[but] trick him: go through where he’s firing and you’ll collect a few holes, but you’ll throw off his aim."

• Experience Is Survival: Not one single pre-war pilot in 32 Squadron was killed in action during the battle—a testament to training and skill [15:58].

5. Luftwaffe’s Worsening Crisis (16:59–19:10)

• Shortages: By early September, German units struggle to put planes in the air; some Staffeln can’t launch a single aircraft, straining the surviving pilots and ground crews.
• Fatigue: Relentless operations, mounting losses, and the cumulative psychological toll are described in both statistics and moving personal recollections.

Quote (Al Murray, quoting Steinhilber, 18:54):
"We began to feel the fatigue and the tiredness…living under constant threat."

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The Climax: Battle of Britain Day (44:30–39:14)

Anatomy of September 15, 1940 (21:16–33:33)

• Weather & Tactics: Dawn brings fine weather and “Battle of Britain Day.” Park, the 11 Group commander, methodically rotates squadrons and coordinates reinforcements, showing off the sophistication of the Dowding system (22:42).
• First Major Wave:
  • Begins at 11:33. German bombers cross Kent, met by carefully staggered RAF squadrons.
  • RAF increasingly able to intercept with numerical superiority—contrary to the myth of being outnumbered.
• Second Wave:
  • Peaks at ~15:00, with ~300 German aircraft attacked by over 330 British planes.
• Results:
  • Both raids are checked with relatively light losses for Fighter Command and mounting losses for the Luftwaffe.
  • The famous image—of massive enemy formations intercepted by small bands of British fighters—is a function of engagement tactics, not reality.

Quote (James Holland, 33:32):
"The truth is…on 15 September, the Luftwaffe is massively outnumbered—three to one—rather than them outnumbering the RAF."

• Churchill’s Role & The Reserve Myth: Churchill’s dramatic visit to the Uxbridge operations room—where Park tells him “there are none” (meaning reserves)—feeds the legend of a desperate last stand, but in reality, the RAF had significant resources held back.

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Battle's End & Strategic Consequences (36:00–42:32)

• Grinding Attrition:
  • Major battles continue into late September, with losses for both sides—on September 27, for example, the Luftwaffe loses 57 planes to the RAF’s 21.
• German Defeat Cemented:
  • On September 17, Hitler calls off Operation Sea Lion (the planned invasion). Luftwaffe losses in aircraft and crew are irreplaceable.
• Strategic Fallout:
  • Britain’s survival keeps the Western front alive, forces Hitler into rushing his ultimately disastrous invasion of the Soviet Union, and sets the stage for Allied victory.
• The Air War’s Maturation:
  • The battle marks air power’s arrival as a decisive tool of war; its lessons—some misread—shape tactics to come.

Quote (James Holland, 40:00):
"The failure to defeat Britain leads to Hitler’s ultimately catastrophic decision to invade the Soviet Union far earlier than anticipated."

Quote (James Holland, 41:59):
"It is an absolute war-changing moment... If you're talking strategic earthquakes, the major one for Germany is the failure to cow Britain and the victory of the RAF in the Battle of Britain."

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Tom Neil’s vivid description of air combat:
  "The aircraft was dying like an animal, mortally wounded…It fell away sadly…The 109 suddenly looked tired." (Tom Neil, via Al Murray, 03:40)

• On squadron culture:
  "We shoot Huns all day, dear boy, and get bestiary drunk at night." (Brian Kingcombe to Tony Bartley, 08:30)

• On psychological coping:
  "Imperturbability is…what is needed: cool, calm head…The best pilots…are ice cool in combat." (James Holland, 11:46)

• The myths and realities of Battle of Britain Day:
  "Where are all the reserves? There are none." (Churchill and Park, recounted by James Holland, 33:32)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:32 – Steinhilber’s seven sorties; the strain on Luftwaffe pilots
• 02:19 – Accounts from Black Saturday—Tom Neil’s narrative
• 06:47 – “Cromwell” signaled: Invasion alerts & nationwide tension
• 09:10 – Battered airbases and coping rituals
• 13:27 – Discussion on stress, experience, and survival in air combat
• 16:53 – Crisis in Luftwaffe aircraft and pilot numbers
• 19:40 – The challenges of combat fatigue and exhaustion
• 21:16 – The anatomy of Battle of Britain Day, 15 September
• 33:32 – Myth-busting the outnumbered RAF
• 36:00 – Attrition battles, Hitler calls off the invasion
• 39:14 – Continued grinding losses into October
• 40:00 – The battle’s strategic significance for WWII
• 42:32 – Lessons and the maturation of air power

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Final Thoughts

Al and James wrap by emphasizing the magnitude of the RAF’s victory; not a desperate, close-run thing, but a "sound beating" inflicted on the Luftwaffe. The Battle of Britain, they argue, is a “strategic earthquake”—it saved Britain, frustrated Hitler’s ambitions, and irrevocably altered the course of the war. Air power, they note, would only continue to grow in importance—though its lessons would be misapplied as the conflict continued.

Quote (James Holland, 41:59): "It is massively significant...should never be underestimated at all. It is an absolute war-changing moment."

Al, humor in tow, signs off: "Let’s go to the White Hart and drink free beer now. Who cares who’s paying for it, Jim?" [42:59]

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For Newcomers

Whether you know little about the Battle of Britain or want to cut through the legend, this episode delivers atmosphere, detail, and critical insight. The hosts’ mix of scholarship, storytelling, and gallows humor ensures you leave understanding why this battle was a true turning point in history.

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Transcript

[Al Murray]

Thank you for listening to. We have ways of making you talk. Sign up to our Patreon to receive bonus content, live streams and our weekly newsletter with money off books and museum visits as well. Plus early access to all live show tickets. That's patreon.com we haveways.

[James Holland]

Viva now beginning to feel the effects of being constantly mauled by the raf. Instead of the promised reduction in fighter opposition over England, Viva meeting ever more spirited attacks by the Spitfires and Hurricanes. Whereas V, still at the front line, was slowly but inexorably bleeding to death. I was not untypical of the pilots in our grouper, and I had recorded over 150 missions over the Channel. On one day alone, I flew on seven sorties. Takeoff 0700, return 0800. Takeoff 080. Oh, nine, 40, take off. 1020, return. 1120, take off. 1200, return 1300, take off. 1340, return. 14, 40, take off. 15, 20, return. 16, 20, take off. 1700, return 1800. And that was from Leutnant Ulrich Steinhilber, who we've met a little bit before in JG52. And crikey, seven hours of combat flying.

[Al Murray]

Welcome to. We have ways of making you talk with me, Al Murray and James Holland. And we have reached the final phase of the Battle of Britain. This is our sixth episode and finally the Lufta is going to be defeated.

[James Holland]

It is curtains for your Fritz.

[Al Murray]

I know in the last episode we said we got to put yourself back into the moment and not. Not know the outcome. And put yourself in Keith Park's shoes as he feels he's running out of pilots, that we're going downhill and all that stuff. But the Luftwaffe is going to be defeated in this episode, so stick with it. This is the last phase, from the 7th of September to the 31st of October. That's a very, very long. That's seven or eight weeks, isn't it? That's a long RAF. And it's characterized by the Luftwaffe switching to bombing London, which happens on the.

[James Holland]

Afternoon, of course, of Saturday, the 7th of September, Black Saturday. We talked about this, of course, in our Blitz episodes, our Blitz series, didn't we? But we will be talking about it from a Battle of Britain perspective.

[Al Murray]

Tom Neil in 249 Squadron, he scrambled at half past four in the afternoon, 18,000ft. They see flak bursts and Heinkels, Dorniers, and above them the fighters. In they go, tally ho. And Tom feels like he's a gnat, basically, isn't it? Coming in against the hide of some vast creature. Because it's. They're 12 against more than 100, mind you. Yeah, he's attacking the bombers. He dives on the Heinkels. He doesn't need his gun sight. He can. He can see the bullets striking the bombers. Then he goes through the formation, keeping his eye open for 109s. And then the 109s pounce on the fighter command fighters as they pounce.

[James Holland]

And incidentally, this is Yorick Steinhill Brunko.

[Al Murray]

Right. There we are. So our protagonists meet and he spots a yellownose 109 coming towards him from the right. Tom turned towards it and fires, then gets on its tail and fires again. I fired again and again. A few bright strikes, a brief puff of dark smoke, a thin plume of white, then a slightly thicker tail of darkening gray. The 109 suddenly looked tired. It leaned slowly to its right and slid downwards gently. I fired again and again. It sat there, tilting in a way. Pathetic. Then momentarily, a small puff of debris exploded into the air. It was dying. The aircraft was dying like an animal, mortally wounded. Not the pilot or man, but an aircraft. It fell away sadly, the angle steepening, the trail thickening. I let it go to its death watching. I mean that. There we are in the hot seat.

[James Holland]

Vivid account, isn't it?

[Al Murray]

Yeah, incredible. But then he realizes he's made the error, which he's ended up on his own and he's vulnerable. Then he's been paying attention to what he's been doing and not what's going on around him. And he finds some Hurricanes. Yeah, yeah. From one First Canadian Royal Canadian Air Force squadron. I mean, this is incredible. Ends up in what he calls a cavalry charge of the wildest kind, hurtling in a 30 degree dive towards a gaggle of Dorniers. His Hurricane screaming. And he feels he's in a diving gannet. The Thames is below him, pillars of smoke rising into the sky. And then once he's done that attack, turns and heads for home. Get the aircraft down on the ground, get it checked over and then. And then whoever's going to go next, if they go next, can go.

[James Holland]

You know, I mentioned that Ulrich Steinhelber is flying. You know, he can see London burning, but also he's surprised to see so many RAF fighters, you know, and it doesn't align at all, what they've been told. And he realizes he needs to concentrate like never before. Everywhere there's danger from the British fighters, from the heavy flak and from loose barrage balloons. I mean, that's another thing. So loose barrage balloons, it's sort of come detached and sort of floating in between them all. I mean, you can imagine, can't you? Sort of trailing wire. The last thing you want to be coming into if it's sort of melee, I mean, crikey. And Sifri Betke, he's also in the. In the fray, a chat that we've mentioned a number of times from JG2. He dives down on a squadron of Hurricanes which are now nicknamed Whore Barges from Kurunkena, which I think is quite good.

[Al Murray]

That's pretty good.

[James Holland]

Witty. He hits one Hurricane and watches the pilot bail out. And there's a sort of. There's a sense, I think, from these three different accounts of this sort of massive melee and sort of the confusion, sort of tumbling carnage. It's a very bad day for Tom Neil's 249 Squadron because George Barclay is forced to land. Pat Wells is missing. Boost Fleming is shot down in flames but seen bailing out. Sergeant killing back bails out, but badly wounded. So too Sergeant Smithson and Sergeant Beard. Bruce Fleming later confirmed killed in action and Pat Wells in hospital. So that's six pilots in one sortie, which is, you know, only got 18 to 20 in the first place. That's a big loss.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Holland]

And as Tom Neal notes, the dispersal hut seemed empty that night. I bet it did, yeah. You know, that's a bad day for fighter command. It's 25th aircraft shot down and 16 pilots killed in action. The other thing about Saturday 7th September, of course, is this is the day that call sign Cromwell is signaled. I mean, it's amazing because this is the day that the Joint Intelligence Committee remember Tommy Elmhurst and co, he's part of the JIC from Air Intelligence. Invasion has to be considered imminent. You know, hundreds of invasion barges have been photographed in the Channel. Port Stukas reported moving to the Pas de Calais. Four German spies caught landing in rowing boats on the southeast coast and confess they're there to report on troop movements. I mean, you know, I just want everyone to know that not a single German spy successfully penetrates Britain. All right? Tide and moon conditionings are good on the kind of around the 8th to the 10th of September. So it all seems to be pointing to one thing, you know, and now with masses of bombers over London, the Chiefs of staff accept the JIC advice and issue the official alert. I mean, it's just amazing stuff, isn't it?

[Al Murray]

Particularly given what we know is going on the other side of the Channel where there's. It's Prevarication and chaos and everyone, everyone arguing over what they want to do rather than listening to anybody else. So the armies at eight hours notice Alan Brooks, Chief of Staff at General Bernard, he gives an immediate action to all troops in Eastern Southern commands. And at 8:07pm, Brooke actually issues the signal, Cromwell, that troops should go at once to invasion battle stations that evening. It's issued to everyone, to the Home Guard as well. And lots of people take this.

[James Holland]

It's only a warning. It's not, it's not, it's not a signal that the invasion started. No, just an action station.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, but given what's going on in the skies, people think, well, okay, it's kicking off. There are reports of German paratroopers, which I think is absolutely amazing.

[James Holland]

Well, it's down to airman, isn't it?

[Al Murray]

Of course it is. Of course it is. Earlier in the summer you'd had that whole thing about falchion Jager disguised as nuns and all that sort of stuff, that kind of mad nonsense. So it's. It's little wonder that people are twitchy and there are, you know, the Royal Navy patrol service gets out and has a look. It's a febrile moment, isn't it? It's the truth.

[James Holland]

It's edgy.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. And park jumps in his Hurricane to have a look. That afternoon he realizes that the Luftwaffe, now that they've turned their attention to London, he'll actually be able to give the air bases some, some respite because he knows, he knows they really do need it. Biggin Hill's been smashed up. As we said in the last episode, it's in a terrible state and, you know, 7th of September, 92 Squadron are posted to Biggin from Pembry and Tony Bartley is a late arrival. He's been on leave. He gets there, he arrives in an Anson and he sees it's completely smashed up. There's roughly patched craters, there's wrecked buildings and it's completely, you know, it's shocking to him, isn't it, because of, because of the state of the place.

[James Holland]

Yeah, completely.

[Al Murray]

And he sees his old mate, his great friend Brian Kingscombe is the Kingcombe, who's the flight commander and says. Brian says, we shoot Huns all day, dear boy, and get bestiary drunk at night. But they are, for all that they are, they've been under immense pressure and the station has really, really been smashed and the stores have been smashed. So everyone's just been helped pilfering a bit. Some light pilfering going on. People handling themselves to whatever they want. And just as they've had this conversation, the flak opens up and a lone Ju 88 emerges through the cloud and then disappears again. And Bartley says to Kingcombe, what should I do, Brian? Kingcombe says, just put on a tin hat and strike a hostile attitude.

[James Holland]

Yeah, there's this moment where Bartley sort of goes that he's got this Ford V8, but the others have been driving it while he's been away on leave and it's been wrapped round a tree by Norman Hargreaves. So Tony said, well, I'm going to fix him for that. And Brian just goes, being fixed already, poor chap, he's gone. So there's some other changes because Bob Stanford Tuck has been posted to 257 Squadron. That's part of this shifting around of experience that Parker's introduced just on the 7th of September. So remember, this is the 13th of September. So these changes have already happened. Two others have been shot down and wounded. There's a new CO, squadron Leader, Philip Sanders, but he's accidentally set fire to himself with a cigarette lighter, so he's order combat. And they're later stood down without actually having flown. And the mess is bombed out, so they're now in army buildings a bit further down the road. And Tony Bartley goes off to raid the stores as suggested, including a spare parachute. But he makes sure that he chats up the packer first because he wants to make sure it's a good one. Dinner is in the old army mess, and as they eat, bombers roar over to kind of attack London yet again, because it's now the blitz has started. So after that they all get into the clamber into the squadron truck and head off down to the White Hart at Brastead. And everyone's yelling, 92 Fighter Squadron, top of their voices. And in the pub, Tony meets two identical twins, the McNeil sisters, who seem to be getting very fresh with all the pilots and seem to be known to everybody else. And from somewhere, free pints keep appearing. And he turns to Brian Kingham and goes, who's paying for all these pints? And Brian Kingham just goes, who cares? It's not us. So everyone gets. Everyone does get bestially drunk as Brian Kingcomb, as promises Jeff Wellum, Boy Wellum, as he's known, he's throwing up outside. And then they go to the Red House, which is this sort of rather nice home owned by the family of the McNeil sisters. And they get in there and Tony's Given a whiskey and records are being played and there's dancing and you know, he's absolutely obliterated. Somehow someone drives them home in the truck again in the early hours of the morning and then Tony's woken up at 4:30am with a cup of tea, straight up to dispersal. He's sort of snoozing. Most people are still wearing pajamas, you know. He's later scrambled three times that day. Yeah, it's just amazing. Yeah, but, but you know, the truth is there are, you know, squadrons are different and each has its own little culture. I remember talking to Bob Doe, I think he was in 247 Squadron, something like that. He said hardly anyone ever drunk, you know, they hardly ever went to the pub. They were much more Methodist in their approach.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

So it all just depends of course there's much less drinking in the, in the Luftwaffe.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

And you know, one thing we haven't really talked about a huge amount so far is you know, what it's actually like being a pilot, you know, and what your day looks like. And you know, it is very early starts and there is a lot of sitting around. Not if you're Ulrich Steinhelper towards the end of the Battle of Britain, but for the most part, you know, you're most in fighter command. I've flying maybe kind of once or twice, I mean occasionally four times a day. You wouldn't be flying four hours of combat a day in fighter command. No, but relaxation clearly is absolutely vital to your chances of surviving, you know, and it's good to try and switch off when you're not flying. But, but obviously it's very difficult. I mean, you know, getting blind drunk every night is clearly a questionable approach. But on the other hand it's also good not to be living and breathing flying all the time as well. And obviously what is needed is imperturbability is, you know, cool, calm head, you know, being calmer means less body tension, SL heart rate, etc. You know, and the best pilots, unquestionably the ones who can be ice cooling in, in combat, I think, I think it's really, really interesting. And you know, I was lucky enough to talk to a lot of pilots about this. You know, Hansecard Bob was obviously in the luftwaffe, he's in KG JG54 but, but he told me that he, you know, when he was flying he always felt complete control and one of the reasons was because he'd been a pre war pilot with a ton of flying out. So, so he, the flying bit, he just did without thinking, you know, that second nature. Which means that he can concentrate on being a fighter pilot. Yeah. You know, and he'd always feel, you know, he'd get anxious beforehand, but once he was in his cockpit, once he was actually airborne, he'd feel the adrenaline kick in. And that kept him also from. From feeling scared. And he also. He developed a sixth sense, which is something that we talked about. I mean, I remember talking, you know, when we were doing the casino episode. We were talking during that. Faust Klein.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

And he was saying that he was standing outside the Hotel de Rose and suddenly had the sixth sense to duck. And he did, and a shell went straight over his head just after he ducked. And it's the same. And, you know, Hans Zekar, Bob said to me, you'd get the feeling that someone was looking at you. So then he'd take evasive action quicker. It is fascinating.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. I think it's interesting is because there's lots of debate about improving your chances. Even though the Fighter Command guys don't. You know, there is clear advice. You know, keep your eyes peeled, come out of the sun, look out for the hunt in the sun. You know, fight sailor. Milan's list of recommendations for being a fighter pilot. You know, attack with. Attack with confidence and all that. One example here is Pete brothers at 32 Squadron. Spent his time sanding down the rivets on his Hurricane. Reckons He got 6 miles per hour more out of his Hurricane. Now, the thing is, whether he did or not, it doesn't matter. That's a ritual. That's a thing. That means he's collected with his airplane, doesn't it? It means he's. He's. It's something to focus on. It's something to do. And anticipation is always the killer in any activity, isn't it? That situation they're in is never easy to deal with, is it?

[James Holland]

It's like going out to bat. You know, you feel nervous beforehand, but once you're actually batting, it's sort of okay.

[Al Murray]

You speak with the confidence of a man with many years at the crease there, Jim. Profoundly experienced batsman.

[James Holland]

I mean, it's not all right, but, I mean, you know, you're also. You're very experienced now. You're like that. You're like Pete Brothers because you've done so much public performing.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

That it no longer holds any mysteries. It no longer holds any fears. But when you first started out, when you were, you know, first going out to Edinburgh, I bet you were thinking, Christ.

[Al Murray]

But Pete Brothers, to come back to him, he'd also been taught in the 1930s by First World War flying ace, which is the sort of residual. The residual tissue in the. In the RAF for the First World War. And he'd learned all sorts of tricks to minimize blacking out with. With this aircraft. How to yaw the plane with some rudder trim so the plane slightly crabs so you're just sliding sideways, which will. Which makes him a heart, makes you harder to shoot down. I mean this is really this counterintuitive tricks as well. Pete Brothers, he said, suppose you see tracer passing your own left. The instinct is to turn away from it. This chap who's shooting will have noticed he's flying to the left of you and he will be correcting his aim. Trick him, go through where he's firing and you'll collect a few hol. But you'll throw off his aim. Gah. Christ. There's some advice, you'll collect a few holes.

[James Holland]

But obviously the problem is, is for sprogs, for the greenhorn straight out of OTU or the OT equivalent, whether you're Luftwaffe or Fighter Command, I mean it's just a nightmare because it's totally terrifying, completely confusing, utterly bewildering, you know. And this is why so many are shot down. And I remember Pete Brothers telling me that not one single pre war pilot in 32 Squadron was killed in action during the battle of him.

[Al Murray]

That's amazing.

[James Holland]

So people shot down and they bailed out, but not one was killed. And you can see when you start to kind of talk to people like Pete Brothers, you start to talk to Hans Ek up Bob, you can see why they're surviving that sixth sense, the kind of tricks of the trade, total control of the machine you're flying. You don't have to think about that at all. You can completely concentrate on the job in hand. You know, compared to someone who's with lesser experience, you know, they haven't got a chance, have they? This is why that part classification, such a simple system system is so genius and why it's so important to the outcome of the Battle of Britain. Because actually park is worrying about pilots. But for Luftwaffe, it's aircraft that's the problem. You know, the losses are not being made up. And that puts a special strain on the fighter pilots as we alluded to in the into the last episode. And the plane shortage is becoming a bit of a nightmare, particularly for the fighter planes. You know, Siegfried Becker on his diary of the 5th of September, you know, we'd already had a quote, we Had a quote from his diary last episode.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

Where he was complaining they only had five, five aircraft. He goes, the group still has 18 planes. The second has 12. And the third doesn't have many more than that. One Sistera Wing apparently only has 12 planes. There is currently a crisis with planes. There are enough pilots. I mean, that is absolutely amazing, you know, and on the 5th of September, there's some Staffell that can't even put a single plane into the air.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

And of course, this then puts extra strain on the pilots, extra strain on the ground crews, extra strain on the Staffel that do have a few planes, you know, and no one wants to let a sprog up in their precious me 109. And the bottom line is combat flying is very, very tiring. And I remember talking to B Bmont, you know, who we've mentioned a few times. He was flying with 87 Squadron. He goes, flying what? Fighting was tiring. It was all cumulative. The weeks went by and the pressure never stopped. And then there was the loss of your colleagues, which you had to, you know, which you have to deal with. Which is precisely why Dowding is so insistent that despite this crisis that he feels he's in at the beginning of September, that they still have leave every two weeks and they have a 24 hours off every week. And all the rest of them don't fly too hard.

[Al Murray]

And the Luftwaffe isn't doing that. There's no regular leaf baked in. They aren't. They aren't into the idea of combat fatigue. And also, I mean, also the entire thing is about, well, we'll do it for another four days and we'll have one. So why would you rotate your cruise? One last push, one last heave. Why would you rotate your cruise in that situation? And also, there'd be a whole lot of people who wouldn't want to be rotated out when they're on the brink of pulling off something massive after all. And Kesselring and Speller, they've got no choice. They've got to keep going because they have to destroy the raf and that needs a force bigger than the one they have. Because I think Betker's wrong when he says there's a crisis with planes. He's right about that. There are enough pilots. He's wrong about the pilots. There are not enough pilots. They're feeling the pinch both ways. They're short of pilots and they're short of airframes. It means the experienced people are getting more experience, but they're also getting worn out. And so you do see ex Burton being shot down and the weather is also.

[James Holland]

They're flying when they shouldn't be.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Because they have to fly.

[James Holland]

As the weather's worsening.

[Al Murray]

Steinhoper, I mean, it's interesting, as he said, we began to feel the fatigue and the tiredness that comes with living under constant threat. We would feel the relief of returning to base, but would then have to cope with the emotions of having lost friends and colleagues, knowing also that within minutes we would have to do it all over again.

[James Holland]

I love the fact that they have. Have this moolin stats which is known as a. You know, the direct translation is a rubbish action, I. E. You know, going over when there's absolutely no point in flying whatsoever because the weather's. Or they're not going to see anything because it's just a complete mashup.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. You know, they're running on fumes, basically, and many are flying back on vapors because after all, the issue for the 109 is you've only got 10 minutes of flight over the combat zone and you can get that wrong if you get too. If you get too stuck into a.

[James Holland]

Combat action, you can't just suddenly decide to pull out.

[Al Murray]

No.

[James Holland]

You know, you've got it. You've got to sort out the Spitfire on your tail. Yeah, exactly.

[Al Murray]

And after the break, we will take you to Battle of Britain Day, Sunday 15 September, a day when the weather was fine and the visibility was good. At dawn, we'll take you through what for many is the climactic day of the Battle of Britain. See you in a tick. And Doug, here we have the Limu.

[James Holland]

Imu in its natural habitat, helping people.

[Al Murray]

Customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating.

[James Holland]

It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug. Uh, limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us. Cut the camera. They see us.

[Al Murray]

Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty Liberty, Liberty. Liberty Savings Ferry unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts.

[James Holland]

Your sausage McMuffin with egg didn't change your receipt did. The sausage McMuffin with egg extra value meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just $5 only at McDonald's for a limited time.

[Al Murray]

Prices and participation may vary. Welcome back to. We have ways of making you talk where like an enticing plump cherry dangled on its stalk. We have offered you Battle of Britain Day. And not just that. The end of the Battle of Britain. That's what we aim to do in this episode, isn't it, James? Although there is to come a bonus episode about Douglas Barter and the Big Wing controversy. It's hugely important for the fate of Fighter Command the following year in its own way. And also we want to look at Douglas Barda because he is an absolute, absolutely amazing, extraordinary person.

[James Holland]

But first of all, what we're going to do first is go through, and I thought it'd be interesting to, for us to do this in a sort of fairly clinical way is actually look at what really happened on Sunday 15th September, and try and separate some of the mythology around it from the reality. And then once we've done that, then we can sort of wrap up what happens following on from this at the end of September into October 1940. But that day, as you said, at the end of the first half, dawn's fine and visibility is good. Cloud develops steadily over southern England as the morning wears on, however, and by mid afternoon there's thick cloud around 4,000, 6,000ft. However, early morning Luftwaffe reconnaissance plains are first seen over spotted over west of England and northwest between 0900 and 1100 hours. A single Heinkel 111 is shot down over Bolthead, just south Devon, soon after 9am and I'm pretty sure that's shot down by 87 Squadron. There's nothing again in the southeast until after 10am so southeast being 11 Group, this is park area, this is the main event when suddenly there is increasing numbers of German patrols over the Straits of Dover. And this is the first sign that enemy raids are likely. By 11am it's clear from RDF data radar that something big is brewing. So the first wave of major attacks is aiming for London and that is happening between 11:30am and 12:45.

[Al Murray]

The first wave of German bombers died. He doesn't cross the Kent coast until 11:33am, which means that Parkes had time, actually good time to get himself organized. And at this stage the battle, he's coupling squadrons into pairs. He's got 10 squadrons doing this and he's bringing in, calling for reinforcements from 10 and 12 groups to his west and to his north, and all before 11.30am for instance, the Duxford Wing was airborne by 11.25am so that on this occasion would be in position to intercept at the right moment. Here we go, Jim. So at 11:05, what have we got?

[James Holland]

72 and 92 squadrons from Biggin Hill are ordered to patrol Canterbury at 25,000ft. And this includes Tony Bartley who we mentioned earlier on. He takes off he sees London swathed in low mist, which is largely caused by the fires of the previous night. You can see the sort of silvery twinkle of barrage balloons. And as he climbs higher, he can see the silvery snake of the Thames and all the rest of it and climbs up. And of course, in 92 Squadron, you're one of only 12 flying at that particular moment, so you know, you feel pretty vulnerable when you do spot the enemy when it comes over. 1115, 229 and 303 Squadron. So this is the Kosciuszko Squadron, Poles from Northalta ordered to patrol biggin hill at 15,000ft. So in other words, protect biggin, while 72 and 92 squadron are up over towards Kent. 1115. Also scrambled are 253 and 510 squadrons from Kenley, which is nearby to Biggin Hill, which is also ordered to patrol Maidstone at 15,000ft. Again, these are Hurricane Square squadrons. 1115, 17 and 33 squadrons from Debden ordered to patrol Chelmsford at 15,000ft. 11204 squadron from Hendon and 257 squadron from Martlesham ordered to meet over North Weald at 15,000ft and then patrol Maidstone 1120. So a brace of squadrons being scrambled at 1105, six squadrons being scrambled at 1115, two more squadrons at 1120 and a further two squadrons at 1120. 603 Squadron from Hornchurch is ordered to patrol Dover at 25,000ft. This is Spitfires, Spitfires of 609 Squadron from Middle Wallop asked to patrol Brooklyn's Windsor. So this is the edge, the western.

[Al Murray]

Edge of London and their 10 group being brought, being brought east to cover where 11 group can't cover. At 1125, the Duxford Wing, which is 242 Squadron commanded by Douglas Barlow. 19 Squadron, Squadron 301 Czech Squadron, 611 Squadrons all set off from Duxford to patrol Hornchurch at 25,000ft again.

[James Holland]

Then that's to protect 603 who've already taken off.

[Al Murray]

It all makes perfect sense. And at 11:33, as we said, the German bombers cross the Kent coast and they're in three columns. They fly north and then they turn southwest towards Maidstone and spread out with the bombers in five formations of Brest. Most of them are Dornier 17s from 1kg 76 and they're supported by two grip of open of fighters. She's six squadrons Staffeln, although as we've explained, these are smaller squadrons than the RAF squadrons. 1135, 249 and 46 squadrons from North Weald are ordered towards South London at 11:40. And this is the pictures developing for park in his command center. As he's seeing more, as he's getting more for the Observer Corps and the pilots reporting what they're seeing now as well, you've got that added into the mix.

[James Holland]

The point is to just peck away at the German formation as much as possible all the time, to give them no let up whatsoever, to disrupt their formation, to kind of, you know, unnerve them, to drive them away from London. That's the point.

[Al Murray]

1141St Squadron, Royal Canadian Air Force 1 Squadron deploy from Northolt and 605 from Croydon. They join over Kenley at 15,000ft. At 1140, the same time, 41 Squadron from Hornchurch are ordered to patrol Gravesend. At 1142, 66 Squadron from Gravesend are ordered into the air. So there you go, that's the overlap there. You can see how that's working. At 11:45, enemy formations are engaged by 253 and 501 squadrons in head on attacks and who say they've seen 20 Dornier 17s and 50 109s. Then it gets really gets going. At 1200 hours at noon, the enemy engaged by 66 and 41 squadrons. 66 Squadron attack the bombers. 41 Squadron engaged the fighters. That's a five minute encounter. At five past 12, hot on the heels of this, 257 and 504 squadrons engage. They say they've seen 25 Dordia 17s in five lines of flight. Five abreast at 17,000ft, plus the Me 109s escorting at 23,000ft these squadrons, they get into these bombers with not too much interference from the ME109s. And then at 1205 the Duxford Wing joins the attack and gets, gets stuck in as well as well as 249 and 446 quadrants. Basically. I mean, the sky is full of tangling squadrons, isn't it? It's amazing.

[James Holland]

And the leading bombers are starting to reach London. But the attack is comparatively light at this stage. An electricity station at Beckenham is hit. Bomb falls in the garden front of Buckingham palace and two bridges across the Thames are damaged. But otherwise the bombing is sporadic over South London. The number of bombs dropped suggests a bomber force of 30 Dorniers maximum. It's probably actually a bit less than that. The bombers are left to fend for themselves and they head West. While the ME109s turn to engage the Spitfires of the Duxford Wing and then turn for home, heading back along the North Kent coast. So the squadrons from Norfolk also attack the retreating me 109s. The attack is roughly handled and the enemy formations are Harrison from start to finish. And there are many, many more British fighters in the air than there are Luftwaffe aircraft. So I think this is really, really interesting and we'll go into this, at the end of this, we'll do some analysis of the whole thing. So. So fighter command loses 14 fighters and a further five badly damaged. Seven pilots killed or missing and four pilots wounded in that one.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

And then there is a second wave. This is a second major attack and a larger attack. So at 1345, 145, the first signs of the Luftwaffe is massive as chain home RDF starts to pick up the signals. 1400, 222 and 603 squadrons from Hornchurch ordered to patrol Sheerness at 20,000ft. So they're Spitfires at 1400, a 17 Squadron and 257 squadrons from Debton ordered to meet over Chelmsford at 15,000ft. So they're Hurricanes?

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

249 also at 2pm from Northwield and 504 from Hendon ordered to meet over Hornchurch same time, 2 o'. Clock. 6 o. 5 Squadron from Croydon and 500 from Kenley order to take take off and meet near Kenley at 25,000ft. 1405, Luftwaffe formation start moving west. Also that time, 92 Squadron scrambled again and also 41 Squadron from Biggin Hill meet at Horn Church at 20,000ft. 249 Squadron and 1 Canadian Squadron ordered to take off from Northolt to patrol the base at five past two. You know, and so it goes on ten past two. 41 Squadron, 46 Squadron, 66 Squadron, 72 Squadron all scrambled. B Flight only of 73 Squadron from Castle Camps order patrol M.A. stone. Three more squadrons put into the air at 215, 253, 607, 213 Duxford Wing of five squadrons this time order to patrol Hornchurch at 25,000ft. 238 Squadron from Middle Wallop order to patrol the base, then to Brooklands and Kenley. So again covering the backs of the, of the and the airfield as those aircraft are up in the, up in the air. And by quarter past two, almost all of the of 11 groups squadrons are airborne.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

Pretty methodical, isn't it? Again, it's staggered.

[Al Murray]

This is about what The Dowling system is all about is management and control of the airspace and that you're always covering your back as well because you need the air bases in after what's been happening. In particular, you really need to protect the. The airfields as well. And at 14, between 1415 and 1423 German forces cross the coast between Dungeness and Dover. They advance on parallel lines over Kent. The estimated size is 150 aircraft. The reality is it's about. It's between 100 and 120 bombers. Southern formation is mainly Dornier 17s. Central formation is Heinkel 111s and Dornier 17s and the Northern formation of Heinkels. And they're escorted by a smaller number of fighter aircraft, 1420. So this is all happening on top of itself. Five smaller formations of 90 aircraft come across the Kent coast. That's the fighter escort. So the fighter ratio.

[James Holland]

So 90 plus in total.

[Al Murray]

Exactly, yeah. The bomber to fighter ratio is one to the overall front of this combined Luftwaffe formation is about 30 miles and it's around 300 aircraft. And the thing is, later in the war, many more aircraft will be thrown into battles and you'll have thousand bomber raids and all that jazz. But this is a big effort aimed at London and all this sort of stuff. Imagine seeing that. Imagine going out onto your. Into your back garden and watching that lot coming over the coast.

[James Holland]

If you really want to understand what it. What it looks like, look at one of these sort of anniversary flypasts at the Rafael does.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

Where basically you've got sort of, you know, 12 aircraft. And then think what that looks like when you've got 300.

[Al Murray]

This means that there's going to be another big engagement at 1445, 603, 41 Squadrons Engage. B Flight of 73 Squadron, which is 5 Hurricanes, get stuck in five minutes later. And between 10 to 3 and quarter past 3 that afternoon, between 1450 and 15, 15 Luftwaffe formations are under constant attack. Attack from different units coming at them at different ways. 66 and 72 squadrons get in. 504 and 249. Then 17 and 257, 605 and 501. And soon after that, 92 and 41 squadrons also get. Get stuck in. The Germans might be offering a maximum effort, but so is Fighter Command. At the same time, you've got bombs falling on London. An electrical power station in Deptford is hit three times. Telephone exchange, Eastham is put out of action. And a gas holder, one of those great big gas holder Things is destroyed, Electricity transformer substation destroyed at West Ham, oil works set, fire at Erith and railway communications damaged at West Ham.

[James Holland]

It's all pretty lightweight stuff, let's face it. Yeah, yeah. Five, 10, the Duxford Wing attacks. So in, in all 10 squadrons from 11 group, five squadrons from Duxford Wing all attacking during the 25 minutes between 1450 and 1515 in all, only four British pilots killed or missing, five wounded. There's Ray Holmes isn't there, who attacks in his Hurricane and goes straigh a hornier and slices off its tail and it plunges into Victoria Station because he thinks it's going, it's going for Buckingham palace and he thinks he ought to do something about it. And you know, the truth is of these two, these are the two big attacks on London on Battle of Britain Day. And the first one amounts to about 100 enemy aircraft which are attacked by about 300 Spitfires and Hurricanes. And in the second one, which is the biggest one, which peaks around three point, you're looking at 300 German aircraft attacked by 330 plus Spitfires and Hurricanes. Now where the whole myth comes from about sort of being massively outnumbered is of course that the, you know, as we've already alluded to earlier on in this series, is that the Luftwaffe are massed and coming out the time of their choosing, whereas Parc is deliberately sending up Spitfires and Hurricanes in squadrons or pairs of squadrons, so that at the moment of engagement, engagement, you as a single pilot feel very, very outnumbered, but collectively you're not. And it's absolutely no question that Parkes tactics of this constant sort of pecking and all the time and harrying the formations from start to finish is the right one. But that's where this myth comes from. You know, the truth is, first major attack on 15 September, the Luftwaffe is massively outnumbered to a tune of three to one, rather than them outnumbering the other enemy, the RAF. And in the second one, peaking at 3pm, they're also outnumbered, albeit, you know, to a lesser degree. We've just been looking at it in the kind of slightly the wrong way because we look at it from the bias of the, of the individual pilot, which is understandable and of course it's terrifying and all the rest of it if you are one of those individual pilots. But it gives a sort of slightly distorted view of the reality. And of course the myth has been enhanced by Churchill's own account by going down to the Uxbridge bunker because he's at Chequers, you know, the weekends, the Prime Minister's Grace and Favour House in Buckinghamshire. And he thinks, awesome, this is the kind of weather for Luftwaffe. I'm going to go to Uxbridge. So he drives over to Uxbridge and stands by park with his unlit cigar in his mouth, clamped in his mouth, looking down on the dais. And at one point he turns to park and says, where are all the reserves? And park says, there are none. But of course the way it's written is to sort of sound that this is the last gasp, we're on our cruppers and all the rest of it. But what, we don't know what park said before that or after it, you know, and for all we know, he might have said, I've got, I haven't got any reserves right now because I've chosen, chosen to bring them all to bear so that, you know, I can get the maximum amount of my fighter planes. But by the way, There are another 350 elsewhere in the country. Yeah, but he doesn't say that. And this is the point, is that because of the park classification, There are another 350 Spitfires and Hurricanes and pilots plus, you know, operating around the rest of the country at that moment. So again, it sort of gives a slightly sort of false impression of just how dire the situation was. You know, I think what's really interesting is the situation is perceived to be dire and is obviously quite serious in the first week of September. But by the 15th of September, the tilt has happened. By directing to London, they are doing mass formations which are much easier to respond to in terms of ground control because you can see where they're going to go. There's a huge great formation. They're clearly going to London. You know, they're not going every which way to every single airfield you could possibly think of. So they're not having to do so much second guessing from a ground control point of view, which means that you can control your response to the battle much better and coordinate it. And also by the 15th set September, the squadron classification has been in action for a week and has dramatically improved. You know, 11th group situation, they've now got full strength pretty much or 75% strength, experienced pilots in each of the squadrons and that makes a massive, massive difference. And as we know, the strength of the Luftwaffe by this point is depleting massively because their aircraft production is not outstripping the losses, you know, the losses are outstripping aircraft production. And it's worth mentioning again, those figures for the end of September, you know, single engine fighters by the end of September is around 276. By the end of October 31, when officially the Battle of Britain ends, they're kind of under 200. You know, it's not good. You know, they've been absolutely whipped. And the truth is, two days after this, on the 17th of September, Hitler decides to postpone temporarily Operation Sea lion, which then gets deferred until the spring of 1941. On Friday the 12th of October. October, yeah. On a day in which air fighting continues. The irony of ironies is that the only four days of continually good weather take place at the end of September. Yeah, you know, from the, I think it's the 27th to the 30th.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

And they're pretty big, big battles. I mean, you look at the major air battles on the 27th of September, RAF lose 20 pilots and 28 planes. Luftwaffe lose 81 crew and 57 planes. I mean, those are not small numbers.

[Al Murray]

And in fact the offensive sort of choice churn after Battle of Britain Day matches anything that's happened in the months before September 15th. And they're attacking the right targets. They're going on the 25th. They go to Filton to hit aircraft factories. They attack Plymouth and Portland. Friday the 27th is a major day for the Luftwaffe losing 57 airplanes. And the 30th, where they lose another 47 aircraft. The Luftwaffe, the RAF lose 21. What it means is that the Germans have tried everything, everything. None of it's worked. They're banging heads against the brick wall, aren't they?

[James Holland]

Look at those casualties for September. Yeah, yeah, look at the casualties for September. So RAF lose 173 pilots and air crew. This is RAF pilots. It's not, it's not just Fighter Command and 358 aircraft. Luftwaffe lose 829 aircrew and 629 aircraft. You know, those are bad numbers. I mean, what you do see, as October kicks in, obviously the days are getting shorter, so there's less daylight hours for aerial combat, fighter planes. And so the numbers do tail off. 23rd of October, RAF loses one pilot, one plane. Luftwaffe loses five air crew, four planes. Tuesday the 24th, RAF loses three planes, three pilots. Luftwaffe 2112. Another quite big day on the 25th of October. RAF lose six pilots, 14 planes. Luftwaffe lose 30 air crew and 24 planes. So the churn goes on. And again, you know the, the numbers for October, total numbers. RAF lose 120 air crew and 185 aircraft. So, you know, not inconsiderable. Luftwaffe lose 492 aircraft and 379. And the bottom line is they're not outstripping the numbers that they've lost.

[Al Murray]

The interesting thing, though, is that. And we, you know, obviously we covered in our Blitz episodes, we talked about that campaign. When they switch to night bombing, it's within their capability. It's something they can actually pull off when they do it, it's really, really effective. And the Fighter Command don't have an answer at that stage of the war. They've been prepared for daylight defense, but not nighttime defense, which takes you into the chapter of the Blitz where really, they can't shoot anything down much, and which also then ties into Hugh Dowding's departure from Fighter Command, although there's. There's more to it than that, as we'll see in our Big Wing episode. But really what's happened here is the Luftwaffe has been beaten. It's not a draw when the Luftwaffe need to win. It's not as close a run thing as all that. The Luftwaffe has been soundly beaten by Fighter Command. Think it's fair to say.

[James Holland]

And it is a really, really significant and catastrophic defeat for Germany, because the whole point was to get the west out of the way quickly so they could properly rearm again, build up their strength, and then attack the Soviet Union. The problem is, is that Britain is still in the fight, and across the Atlantic is the United States, with its huge resources of manpower and potential industrial might as well. And that is a major problem for Germany. And what the failure to defeat Britain leads to is Hitler's ultimately catastrophic decision to go and invade the Soviet Union far earlier than he'd originally anticipated. Now, originally, he's thinking 1943, maybe 1944, something like that. Now he thinks actually spring, you know, early summer, 1941. So at this stage, he's now thinking about making May 1941, which, as we know, becomes the third week of June in 1941. His thinking now is, okay, I'm running out of resources. We've cleared out Europe. We're running short of everything we need to replenish our stocks. The only place we're going to do that, because we don't have access to the world's oceans, is in the Soviet Union. This is our Lebensraum thing. Living space, but also getting resources. So we're going to have to go in early. We'll have a quick hammer blow against the Red army, and then, then once we've done that, Then we'll turn back on the West. But of course it doesn't play out as he hopes. So you know when we said that right in the very first episode, I think it was we did that quote from Churchill on 18 June, where he says, hitler knows he must destroy us or surely lose the war. He's absolutely right. And that is why the Battle of Britain, although it involves comparatively small numbers of people compared to the kind of vast armies that have a slugfest over the rest of the continental conflict, it is massively significant, of huge strategic importance, and it's part in the ultimate victory that takes place for the Allies should never be underestimated at all. It is an absolute war changing moment. If you're talking about strategic earthquakes, the major strategic earthquake at this stage of the war, of course, is the fall of France in May and June 1940. But the strategic earthquake for Germany is its failure to cow Britain and the victory of the RAF in the Battle of Britain.

[Al Murray]

And it marks the maturation of air power as a weapon of war. War the summer of 1940, because you see its tactical effect in the battle for France and then you see its strategic effect in the Battle of Britain with it with an adequate fighter defense. I think it's quite interesting though, because at this point Arthur Harris says, well, we haven't even got started yet when it comes to the air war, which is, I think, an interesting thought hanging over what will come.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

And I mean the other thing. And we'll get to this in our bonus episode. Some of the lessons drawn from the Battle of Britain are quite misled, misleading, which is quite interesting. And we'll talk about that in our bonus episode about Anatomy of a Hero, about Douglas Barda and the big Wing and the consequences of that sidebar to the battle.

[James Holland]

But the exciting thing is in six episodes we have covered the Battle of Britain.

[Al Murray]

We've done it, Jim. We can all have a lie down.

[James Holland]

That's an achievement all itself because it's in massive danger. Going on to 12.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, I think we can go to the White Hart and drink free beer now. Who cares who's paying for it, Jim?

[James Holland]

And then hang out with him at Neil's sister.

[Al Murray]

Exactly, exactly. Thanks everyone for listening. We hope you enjoyed that. There's tons to come this autumn as we get into it, because let's face it, this is a bottomless pit. The Second World War, it's only six.

[James Holland]

Years, but it's so is got more.

[Al Murray]

In it than anything else. It's like the most richly stuffed sausage we Will see you soon. Thanks very much for listening. Cheerio.

[James Holland]

Cheerio. Hey, it's Anthony Scaramucci and I want to tell you about my podcast, podcast Open Book, which just joined the Goal Hanger Network, which we're all very proud of. In my latest episode, I interviewed Goal Hanger's very own James Holland. We spoke about World War II and what World War II teaches us about today. Here's a clip. Prime Minister Winston Churchill. Well, I think he was a great man. I think he was a man of vision. He was a man of enormous geopolitical understanding, and he was a man who offered public possibilities. When you're in a life and death struggle, you need people that can persuade you. You need people that can bind you. You need men of vision, of charisma. That's the problem with the moment, is we haven't got those guys. I mean, he's flawed, of course, all the great men are. But thank goodness for the developed world and the democratic world that he was political leader of Great Britain in 1940 and throughout the whole of World War II. He literally, in so many different ways, man of the century. I think because Roosevelt was a charmer. Roosevelt was a great strategist. He pulled the Americans through the DEP and helped him manage the war. But without Churchill holding ground in May and June of 1940, it would have been a much darker, much worse world. It would have been not a lot that the Americans could have done without Churchill's steadfastness and his inspiration to his fellow citizens. If you want to hear the full episode, just search, open book, wherever you get your podcasts. You are not luminous, Watson, but you.

[Al Murray]

Are a conductor of light.

[James Holland]

Here they are.

[Al Murray]

Dr. Mortimer, I presume. Yes. Hi, John. Dr. John Watson. Who is your client? He was my client, Sir Charles Baskerville.

[James Holland]

Keep reading. A local shepherd.

[Al Murray]

Noted. I saw first that of the maid. Hugo Baskerville passed me thence on his black mare and there behind him, running mute upon his track, such a hound.

[James Holland]

Of hell that God forbid should ever be at my heels.

[Al Murray]

I wish I felt better in my mind about it.

[James Holland]

It's an ugly business, boss.

[Al Murray]

An ugly, dangerous business.

[James Holland]

And the more I see of it.

[Al Murray]

The less I like it. I shall be very glad to have you back safe and sound in Baker Street. Passport. Hello. Goal Hanger presents.

[James Holland]

You're not Sherlock Holmes. I'm Henry Baskerville from one of the.

[Al Murray]

Biggest audio dramas of all time. Does it bother you? Like in a creepy kind of way, like in there's an evil giant hound.

[James Holland]

That likes the taste of Baskervilles.

[Al Murray]

Coming up, the seminal gothic novel by Arthur Conan Doyle.

[James Holland]

They're watching.

[Al Murray]

Who? Who? Who are watching? It's not safe. Rimpen Mire. I could just make out its pitch black form. Welcome to deepest everything, a hellish void. Darkest. Who are you to this piercing yellow glow of eyes? Dartmoor. What do you want of giant fangs? Sherlock and co.

[James Holland]

The hound of the Baskervilles.

[Al Murray]

Listen now. Five stars, says the I Paper. Hugely popular, says the Guardian. A successful reinvention of Holmes for a.

[James Holland]

Younger generation, says the Times. Search Sherlock and co wherever you get your podcasts.