← WW2 Pod: We Have Ways of Making You Talk
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- [00:02]
Al Murray
Thank you for listening to we have ways of making you talk. Sign up to our Patreon to receive bonus content, live streams and our weekly newsletter with money off books and museum visits as well. Plus early access to all live show tickets. That's patreon.com wehaveways.
- [00:25]
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- [00:47]
James Holland
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- [00:52]
Ryan Reynolds
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- [01:08]
James Holland
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- [01:19]
Ryan Reynolds
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- [01:49]
Winston Churchill
Forward. What General Rayond called the Battle of France is over. I expect that the Battle of Britain is about to begin. Upon this battle depends the survival of Christian civilization. Upon it depends our own wittish life and the long continuity of our institutions and our empire. The whole fury and might of the enemy must very soon be turned on us. Hitler knows that he will have to break us in this island or lose the war. If we can stand up to him, all Europe may be free and the life of the world may move forward into broad Sunday duplins. But if we fail, then the whole world, including in the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new dark age made more sinister and perhaps more protracted by the Lights of perverted science. Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duty. So bear ourselves that if the British Empire and its commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say this was their finest hour.
- [03:18]
Al Murray
Oh, stirring stuff, Jim.
- [03:20]
James Holland
And of that, of course, was the Prime Minister, Winston Churchill.
- [03:23]
Al Murray
Welcome to we have Ways of Making youg Talk with me, Al Murray and James Holland. Welcome to our series that's looking at the 85th anniversary of the Battle of Britain and those stirring words from Winston Churchill. Teeing up events, of course, as they're beginning to occur. Isn't that right, Jim?
- [03:39]
James Holland
Yeah, it certainly is. And you know, I've got to say, obviously, when he gave that speech on the 18th of June, that was four days away from the strategic earthquake of the French armistice on the 22nd of June, 1940. But, you know, it just makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up, makes me tingle, because this is the daddy. This is the summer of 1940. This is the Battle of Britain. It's the turning point in war. Also, from a personal point of view, you know, it might be Arnhem for you, but for me, my heritage myth is. Is Battle of Britain and summer of 1940, and Spitfires and the White Cliffs of Dover and all the rest of it. Now, this is my entry point for World War II back in the day. And so I'm very, very excited that we're doing this, actually. Finally, a long last in some depth on this, the 85th anniversary.
- [04:20]
Al Murray
I think I know why and I think you know why, but I think it's worth rehearsing. The reason this is, this is such an important moment because France has been defeated in incredibly short order, catching the entire world out. You know, the Germans have achieved in a matter of weeks what it took them four years to fail to do in the First World War. Knock France out, knock Britain out of Europe. And the next thing that Hitler has to do, he has to break Britain to be able to carry on the war the way he wants to carry on the war, which is ultimately, as we all know, to turn on the Soviet Union. But he can only really do that with any degree of sort of breathing space. If Britain's out is the truth, and they, the Germans know this, he knows.
- [04:59]
James Holland
He can't afford to fight a war on two fronts. You know, that's the bottom line, you know, and hovering in the wings on the other side of the Atlantic is the United States of America, with all its potential for industrial and material might. And. And he knows that. And this is what's amazing about this, this speech, because he's absolutely spot on, you know, the whole fury and might of the enemy must soon be turned upon us. Well, you know, from an air point of view, yes, that's absolutely correct. Hitler knows who will have to break us in this island or lose the war. Yeah, absolutely spot on. I mean, that is what this is about. And you know, and he says, you know, if we fail, the whole world, including the United States and all that we know and careful will sink into the abyss of a new dark age made more sinister by the lights of averted science. Well, you know, Cyclone B's around the corner, hasn't happened yet, but that's, you know, I mean, how prescient is this? I mean it's, it's incredible.
- [05:49]
Al Murray
Yeah, and Britain has someone to articulate this at this point because up to this point it hasn't had that. This isn't the Chamberlain style of going about things, is it? So, so this is a speech that's heard BY Pretty much 60% of the British population via radio. One way or another, 65% of people listen to it. When it goes out on the 15th of July, it's a big and important moment. But obviously this is the war as no one has expected it to pan out, has it? So whatever preparations the British may have made for an air battle over Britain, this isn't the air battle they've prepared for.
- [06:25]
James Holland
Because back in 1940, March 1940, it's recommended that Fighter Command expand to 60 squadrons. Everyone agrees on that by September 1940. Not by 18 June 1940, by September 1940, but it's assumed back in March that the Germans will be kept out of France and the Low Countries and Norway for that matter, which, you know, they're now basically, we've got German troops and indeed airfields all the way down the coasts immediately opposite Great Britain. And it's generally been accepted that Luftwaffe bombers would be unescorted and therefore, you know, if you've got a half decent air defence system and a half decent number of fighters, they're going to get massacred. But the strategic earthquake of the fall of France and the fall of the Low Countries and indeed Scandinavia, that changes everything because suddenly German bombers and dive bombers and fighters can now operate over much of southern England from South Wales to the Humber Estuary. And aircraft threatened northern England and Scotland, which had not really been previously considered with all those various naval bases and installations up there as well. So you're expecting your 60 squadrons, which don't even exist in June, to do more than you had originally planned.
- [07:30]
Al Murray
This is the strategic disaster the British state has always tried to prevent happening in Europe, which is the Low Countries and the Channel coast basically falling into the hands of an aggressive power. But this is the disaster, the great fear for disaster, strategic disaster with knobs on. Because it's planes, isn't it? You know, previously it's about controlling the coast for naval reasons, but now this is like, this is the absolute on steroids calamity that the British state since Queen Elizabeth has fought to control the Low Countries and keep enemies out. Churchill, with his historic sense, knows this. This is absolutely as bad as it could possibly be. Right, yeah.
- [08:08]
James Holland
And I think it's also worth pointing out that they're expecting the kind of, you know, in March 1940, they're expecting the, you know, whatever weight of German bombers come over to England, they're expecting that to cross from Essex, Suffolk and Norfolk across East Ang. And now they're not. They're going to come from across Kent and Sussex so that the German fighter planes can get there with the most amount of fuel still in their bellies. And that means that emphasis is going to be coming on at southeast of England rather than the central part of England. But the real point about this is they've also lost their army that's been left behind at Dunkirk and all its kit. Everyone seems to have sort of fallen at the knees of the Nazi regime. Only Britain stands alone, albeit Britain with dominions and empire and 500 million people. But they're not in Britain at this moment.
- [08:51]
Al Murray
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [08:52]
James Holland
You know, and, and the problem is, is long term, Britain's got pretty good chance because it's got the world's largest navy, world's largest merchant navy, it's got access to the world's oceans, it's got friends all around the world, it's got its empire and dominions and extra imperial assets in South America, et cetera, et cetera, but they're not here now in the third week of June or in the beginning of July, and that's a problem. And, and Britain knows that it hasn't got enough fighter planes because they've lost over 350 or whatever it is in France and they're fighting in France and over Dunkirk. They're shorter planes, shorter pilots, short of absolutely everything. And they're staring down the barrel and, you know, one recalls Ralph Richardson in the Battle of Britain movie. And the terrible thing is he's right. You know, we're staring down the barrel and we haven't got a hope. And that's the sort of the situation, it's very, very, very tricky situation for Britain at this moment.
- [09:44]
Al Murray
So this week, the week that follows Churchill's speech, so Saturday 22 June, the French sign the surrender. And the condition of the surrender signed in that railway carriage at campaign is of course that the French fleet has to be demobilized and disarmed, which basically means handed over to the Germans in the long run. And this is as calamitous as it could be. If the Germans can become a naval power by stealing the French navy, by acquiring the French navy, then again things, things are going to, are going to get a lot more difficult before they get better. And then the following day hfs Ark Royal and Hood arrive in Gibraltar. So, so capital ships are responding to.
- [10:20]
James Holland
This aircraft carrier and heavy cruiser. Yeah, yeah. The reason for that is obviously to protect Gibraltar, which is a British asset, but also because much of the French fleet is either in Toulon in southern France or in North Africa in French owned ports in Algiers and Iran.
- [10:37]
Al Murray
Yeah, well, so you, so you've got the option of bottling them up. And then the Monday 24th June, the Oberkommanders is here, which is the German army high command order starts saying right, let's get ready for preparations against England. So things are, things are moving very, very quickly. The fighting ends in France the following day, the 25th of June. And then Wednesday the 26th of June, the important news is that Turkey announces she will remain non belligerent, not getting involved this time. On the Friday you, you have Force H under Admiral Somerville, which is Ark. Royals, battleships Valiant and Resolution, the light cruiser and Arethusa. So the navy and four destroyers. The navy's organizing itself in the Mediterranean by the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the next, and that same day the US National Defense act is passed because the Americans are starting to go, crikey, we've outsourced our defense policy to Europe and they've gone under. It's gone under. What do we do now basically? And De Gaulle is recognized as leader of the Free French. This is a week in which lots is happening very, very, very quickly. Nothing much on the Saturday, then on the Sunday the Germans take the Channel Islands.
- [11:44]
James Holland
Yeah, day off. Day off, yeah, but that's, forget about that Germans. The Germans are occupying the Channel line. So you know, the British decide that they can't, can't hold them, there's no point, so they just give them up, hand them over and suddenly that is, that is British territory now, you know, flying the SWASTIKA and all the rest of it. It's another reminder of just how close the Germans are getting. It feels like they're kind of closing in on Britain. And it doesn't matter that you've got all these huge assets in your favor from a British point of view, such as the world's largest navy and all the rest, this all feels very febrile, very tense, very, very worrying indeed. You know, everyone else seems to have fallen at the knees of the Nazis. Why are we going to stop going to prevent it too?
- [12:24]
Al Murray
I think the other thing, the other thing is something that's really worth remembering, you know, because we, we've done podcasts about Dunkirk, about Operation Dynamo, quite a while ago, actually. Five, five years ago for the 80th anniversary and all that sort of stuff. There are other evacuations going on all over France, in fact.
- [12:41]
James Holland
So there's France, actually.
- [12:44]
Al Murray
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And another. Nearly another 200,000 men come out. Yeah, it's incredible.
- [12:49]
James Holland
Well, including, let's look here. 144,000 British, 18,000 French, 24,352 Poles.
- [12:58]
Al Murray
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [12:59]
James Holland
4,938 Czechs, 163 Belgians. You know, they're all coming over to, over to Blighty.
- [13:06]
Al Murray
And on that same day, Goering issues a general directive for the operation of the Luftwaffe against England, which means the Luftwaffe is now going to build up its strength for whatever's going to come next in England, although they, you know, as we're going to, as we're going to see, the Germans aren't entirely sure whatever comes next in England, but there, but there we are. And they've got three. They've got three La Flotter Air fleets 2, 3 and 5 who are in Norway. And this is the beginning of the, of the Germans trying to figure out what it is they're going to do next. So that's the last week, because they're.
- [13:37]
James Holland
Not, they're not retro. They know they got. They've got to attack Britain, but that's, that's about as far as it goes at this stage.
- [13:43]
Al Murray
And then into. Into July, the German army then under Halder, starts planning an invasion. And I think this is, this is remarkable because, you know, when you consider that Operation Yellow foul Gelb, you know, case Yellow, the thing the Germans did to conquer France was a roll of the dice anyway. The whole point was to get it over with as quickly as possible. It's the only plan they can come up with that they think will work in the immediate because The Germans have to do everything immediately. And now here they are planning an invasion. I mean it makes how, I mean, how hyped and high on their supply must they have been in German high command at this point? I mean, how the high fiving, relentless high fiving. It's extraordinary. And then.
- [14:23]
James Holland
Well, they wouldn't do that, would they? Slap their thighs.
- [14:27]
Al Murray
And then on the following day, 2 July, Hitler orders preparations to begin for what's called Operation Sea lion, the invasion.
- [14:34]
James Holland
Well, although I should add it's not called operation at this point, it's lying.
- [14:38]
Al Murray
He hasn't upgraded the upgraded sea line.
- [14:41]
James Holland
And then third of July, I mean, meanwhile U boats are sort of hitting convoys and stuff and various ships out in the western approaches because all the navy is basically protecting the kind of east coast of England. So none of these, none of these convoys and ships, troop ships are protected. So they're having a field day, what becomes known as the first happy time. But then on Wednesday 3rd July, you've got operation Catapult, of course, which is the destruction of the French fleet at Meus el Kebir and Iran. This is to neutralize the French free and stop it from going over to the, over the German side. And they've warned the French and said come on over, just, just hand them over to us or come, come to friendly ports and work on our part and, and everything will be fine. But they don't. And so they open fire and nearly 1300 French sailors are killed. It's a terrible moment, you know, for people like James Somerville, who's the admiral in charge of this. I mean, you know, he's mates of all these guys with all these brother French commanders. So it's, it's a terrible moment. But it also shows that the British are not going to roll over and that they've got a ruthless street too.
- [15:41]
Al Murray
Yeah, Hitler then by the sick on the sixth, he returns in triumph to Berlin. And you know, you've got the feeling that the hope in, in Germany actually the war will be over soon. There's certainly the public feeling that maybe this is it, maybe this is it, that actually things are going to end because the German public have been ambivalent at best about the war. Things happening very fast works well politically for Hitler, whereas things being drawn out might not. There is this sort of political imperative within Germany to get a result sooner rather than later, isn't there, with the public and the, you know, the Nazis. The Nazis are many, many things, but they do keep very close tabs on public opinion. And try and watch the barometer of public opinion when they're. When they're deciding what to do next.
- [16:23]
James Holland
But, yes, well, yeah, I mean, I think there is a. There is a. There is a huge, huge point that Hitler is. He's completely thrown by this. I mean, the speed of success is just beyond all his wildest hopes and now he doesn't really know what to do. But because he's a continentalist, because he's a landlub and for him, the army is the most important thing. He's not looking at Britain's dilemma through their eyes, he's looking at it through the prism of his own kind of worldview. And his worldview is surely they're going to come to the peace table because they're defeated. Well, they're not actually defeated because they've got a very small army and they've got a very large navy and they're an island and they've got the sea in between and, you know, all the rest of it. So there's lots of reasons not to. And he just. He just can't see it. So he's.
- [17:03]
Al Murray
But.
- [17:04]
James Holland
But he also doesn't want to have to make a decision against Britain because there's a part of him. It's also thinking Britain should be on our side. We don't want to have to fight against Britain because actually we're not that strong. You know, we've managed to sort of wing it so far and got away, though. And everyone thinks that we're this huge sort of military behemoth, but actually, you know, a big, long, drawn out fight against Britain with America, that's not cool. So hopefully they'll just. They'll just sue for peace because, you know, you could see him vacillating and bavaricating the whole time in this process, you know, so. So he's now sort of letting Britain stew and then he's going to make them an offer which they'd be mad not to accept. But. But really what he's. Really. That's what he's saying, but what he's really doing is he's just delaying having to make a decision because he doesn't know what to do for the best.
- [17:45]
Al Murray
Yeah, he's on the horns of his own dilemma. And his own personality, in fact, is part of his dilemma. On the 10th at the Berghof, he calls commanders together to hear views and point to him.
- [17:54]
James Holland
Yeah, so he does his big triumph in Berlin on the sixth. You know, million people, million flags, all the rest of it, everyone waving and cheering. Then he buggers off to the, to the Berghof, which is his favorite place in the world. It's his house that he's bought and expanded in the early 1930s on the kind of foothills of the mountains overlooking Berkisgarden. It's right on the kind of southwest corner of Bavaria bordering Austria and Salzburg is just around the corner in Austria. And this is where he goes. He loves this place. And this is where you can get a bit of calm and sort of beautiful mountain air and all the rest of it. But this is where he gets all his commanders to come and present to him. And it's a very, very odd situation because they have the okw, which inherently is a good idea, which is the Oberkommander de Wehrmacht, which is kind of a tri service army, navy, air force, high command. But there is no sense of joint planning. So he just gets all his service chiefs to come and present to him their plans for the invasion of Britain. And they're all obviously completely contradictory. So first up is Gross Admiral Raeder and the Kriegsmarine. And Raeder's very nervous about this. He thinks invasion should be a last resort. He's worried about clearing enough mines in the Channel, suggests landing on a very, very narrow strip and, you know, says, we don't have any landing craft. So getting the means the barges to take the troops across is going to be a problem. He's calling it Operation lion at this point. Then two days later, on the 12th of July is Yodel's appreciation and Yodel Doodle is at the AKW. He's the head of, kind of Chief of Staff of the, of the Open, commander of amount. He says, well, you know, Britain's on its knees. The situation's hopeless. Of course they're going to see sense. But on the other hand, if Britain does stubbornly hold out, then we'll have to destroy the raf. But we also need to stifle Britain's economy. So U boats are going to be important in bombing raids. And so. And once we've done that, then we'll have a landing and obviously destruction of the RAF is a prerequisite. I mean, the way Yodel tells it, it all just sounds so simple.
- [19:52]
Al Murray
Well, it's interesting though, because, because then on the 13th you get Von Brauchitsch and Halder who come from France and they, they say it's, oh, it's a river crossing. We'll treat it like a large river crossing. That they've sort of completely harebrained approach. And Halder says, The Fuhrer is greatly puzzled by Britain's persisting.
- [20:09]
James Holland
How's the Chief of Staff? The army?
- [20:11]
Al Murray
Yeah. Persisting unwillingness to make peace. He sees the answers veto in Britain's hope in Russia and therefore counts on having to compel her by main forces to agree to peace. What's interesting here is these service chiefs, they're all coming to pitch because Hitler has no strategy. So they're trying to fill in the.
- [20:29]
James Holland
Blanks, none at all.
- [20:29]
Al Murray
And offer him what? Offer him what they think they can do. There's no, there's no, no one saying, right, this is what we're going to do next, so tell me how to achieve it. It's just like what you got for.
- [20:38]
James Holland
Me, see the prevarication of Hitler because he's, he's, you know, he's also, he also expresses his concern that if Britain collapses, then so too would an empire which would then only benefit Japan and the USA. And Japan is not part of the axis until 30 September 1940. So at this point isn't. Then what does that, how does that leave him? So he's kind of hedging his, you know, he just doesn't know what to do. So on the 15th of July, it's a turn of Admiral Canaris, who's the head of the Abed, the Army, Navy and Air Force Secret Service Intelligence. And Gerhard Engel is the, is the Army ADC who keeps a diary throughout all this time. It's fascinating, by the way. And he goes, my impression is that Fuhrer is now more irresolute than ever and does not know what to do next. Clearly he doesn't. I mean, what do you make of that? So on the 16th of July, Hitler issues directive number 16 on preparations for a landing operation against England and it's now called Operation Sea Lion. And he also announces that he's going to make his peace offer speech from the Kroll Opera House in Berlin on the evening of the 19th of July. I mean, it's just amazing, isn't it? He leaves Oberghof, he goes back to, back to Berlin, to Kroloperhaus. There there's this huge occasion he awards various people with promotions. So Goering is promoted to Reichsmarsch, which as we've said before, is the world's only sixth star general.
- [22:04]
Al Murray
Yeah, yeah.
- [22:05]
James Holland
Kesselring, Milch, Sperler, they're all made Phil Marshalls. Gary has a new uniform made of soft light grey and his valet questions this and says the fabric is a woman's fabric and Garrick goes, if I wear it, then it's for men.
- [22:22]
Al Murray
The British are listening, of course, to this. And Hitler says, eventually, I feel obliged, yes, in this hour, by my conscience.
- [22:31]
Winston Churchill
To direct one more appeal to reason to England. I believe I can do this, not as someone who was defeated, but as a victor. I see no compelling reason for this continuation of this far.
- [22:41]
Al Murray
But basically, there's nothing in it. The British government listened to it. There's. It's got no content. It's certainly not going to move things in any meaningful direction. So the War Cabinet go, right, fine.
- [22:53]
James Holland
Well, where's the Hitler of the old days? You know, the. Where's the rousing, you know, the rabble rousing? Where's the spittle? Where's the kind of, you know, all that kind of stuff? None of it, you know, it's a real damp squib.
- [23:05]
Al Murray
The thing is, is no, who would know what to do in this situation, because this situation is totally out of anyone's expectations. Just as the British are going, Christ.
- [23:13]
James Holland
Well out of his comfort zone, everyone's desperately, furiously trying to second guess. I mean, I mean, that's the truth of it. But, but anyway, so the British decide to just ignore it entirely. Then at the War Cabinet the following day, they kind of think, well, okay, we've got to do some kind of response. So this is just brilliant because anyone who's listened to our. Our series that we did on Dunkirk and the five days in May will know that Churchill and Halifax had a bit of a spat about whether they should. Halifax wanting to kind of, you know, potentially pursue peace feelers. And Churchill saying, absolutely. So he now decides that it is Halifax who needs to reply to this speech. And as it happens, Halifax is due to make a routine broadcast on the evening of the 22nd of July of the BBC. So he does it then, and so emphatically rejects the Peace Officer and that is that. And Hitler, meanwhile, heads off to the Breglut Opera Festival because he loves a bit of Wagner.
- [24:02]
Al Murray
He loves his Wagner.
- [24:03]
James Holland
But meanwhile, things have already been happening in the air and across the Channel. So when we come back after the break, we shall be looking at that.
- [24:16]
Al Murray
Welcome back to we have Ways of Making youg Talk. And air is beginning to, well, fill up with German aircraft base, isn't it, Jim?
- [24:23]
James Holland
Well, it is, and German pilots too, who are writing diaries at this time, and not least Oberleutnant Siegfried Bettger, who is from the first group of jagdgeschwader2 jg2 yak geshwader being being fighter. Fighter. It's not a group, it's like a sort of like a beam group. Anyway. On the 12th of July 1940 he jots in his diary. Day off outside on the field. Fantastic weather today with beautiful cloud formations, a cold front. Wolfgan next to me is now my dog. He used to be Hoffman's. No one knows anything apparently negotiations are underway. The large scale concentration of troops for action is apparently completed. Supplies and everything else are apparently in order in Germany. Apparently thousands of simple 10 man boats with small auxiliary engines are being built for the invasion. All rumours. What is really happening? Bomb attacks from both sides every day and night. A few days ago 12 Blenheims heading towards Stavanger shot down. All of them. Yesterday seven Blenheims heading towards Amiens all shot down. But always without us. There's quite a lot going on in that little diary entry, isn't there?
- [25:39]
Al Murray
Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, yes, he's saying he doesn't believe a word anyone's saying but I mean you might live in a world of rumor when you've just knocked France over the previous month and you don't know what's going to happen next. It's quite clear that, I mean it's interesting isn't it because at the top they're in a funk and the funk has found its way all the way down to. To pilots and air crew in the Luftwaffe.
- [26:01]
James Holland
Yes. And it. And it's the usual thing that the guys are having to do the action are the last people to know what the hell is going on. I mean that's what's happening. I mean he's been moved up to. JG2, has been moved up to Normandy. So they are now Betka is at Beaumont La Roger, which is I think if I'm rightly kind of east of Caen. Officially the Battle of Britain starts on 10th July 1940. But as Dowding, Commander in Chief of RAF Fighter Command who wrote the dispatch which provided those dates pointed out the Battle of Britain as far as he's concerned starts on 3rd September 1939. Anyway, be that as it may, the point is is there is no precise day when, when things start happening but, but things are already.
- [26:42]
Al Murray
Come on Jim.
- [26:43]
James Holland
July.
- [26:43]
Al Murray
And we're gonna pick a day and we're gonna stick to it and there will be no controversy about when the battle.
- [26:49]
James Holland
I'm gonna say the 3rd of July then 1940 because. Because that is the day that convoy 178 which is an ocean going convoy of 14 ships heading to Nova Scotia from London plus a whole load of local coasters which makes going through the channel 53 ships in all. They sail from Southend on the 3rd of July. They pass through the Straits of Dover overnight. But by dawn the French coast is still in sight and the convoy starts to get absolutely hammered. I mean really hammered. And then again on the 4th of July. Yeah, that, well that is the 4th of July because it's moving out overnight so early in the morning. 33 Stuka dive bombers then dive bomb Portland as well and Dorset coast. So they've moved around the kind of, you know, the leg of Kent. And HMS Foil bank is an auxiliary anti aircraft ship which is, is hit repeatedly and they keep firing. And leading Seaman Jack Mantle stays on his pom pom shooting down a Stuk and despite being severely wounded later dies of his wounds and get a vc. Loads of people are killed. The convoy is near Portland by the afternoon and blitzed again. And Then overnight on the 4th, 5th of July s boots schnellbute which are these very very fast kind of 40 plus knots wooden torpedo boats attack the convoy too. And in all five ships are sunk, 11 damaged, five further damaged in Portland Harbour. You know it's a 30% loss rate. And off that moment it's decided that no more ancient going convoys are going to be passing through the straits of the English Channel anym. And you know, and that, that's a, that's a big moment and, and they can only be attacked because by this point there are already sufficient Stukas at French airfields, you know, captured at French airfields in, in northern France and the Low Countries. Yeah, so it's already starting to happen.
- [28:38]
Al Murray
I think that makes a, a strong case for the Battle of Britain starting then and well let's say the 4th.
- [28:46]
James Holland
Of July because they're going overnight.
- [28:49]
Al Murray
I mean. Yes, exactly. I mean goering orders Richthofen's 8th Air Corps to start attacking Channel C traffic on the second. That's the, let's say the start of July.
- [29:01]
James Holland
Come on, let's just, let's just call it, it's definitive. Go back to my Battle of Britain book, chop it in half and reissue it starting in July. It's actually not a bad idea anyway from then on, you know, every day the numbers are starting to crease. So it's interesting looking at the, the casualties I think gives you a sort of indication. So RAF and this is not just fighter command by the way, this is casualties is across the board. It's also including Blenheim's on Wednesday 10th July, official day of the start of the Battle of Britain, but not official for us. RAF have they lose two air crew killed and two aircraft shot down. Luftwaffe 29 aircrew killed and 11 aircraft shot down.
- [29:42]
Al Murray
But Jim, you can see why Dowdy might have picked that day for the start of the Battle of Britain because it's. Because the odds are very much like raf's doing well that day. Right. You know what I mean?
- [29:49]
James Holland
I guess so, yeah. I guess.
- [29:52]
Al Murray
But on it goes, and I think you're absolutely right. This is the drip, drip, drip of attrition. And of the two air forces sort of figuring each other out and figuring out what they're going to do. You know, as you say, on the 11th, there's more shipping attacks. The RAF lose three air crews, six aircraft. The Luftwaffe lose 41 aircrew with seven aircraft. I mean that's, that's a lot.
- [30:15]
James Holland
It's a lot.
- [30:15]
Al Murray
That's steep, isn't it?
- [30:17]
James Holland
Well, it is in the context of the wider picture. Yeah.
- [30:20]
Al Murray
And on, on the 12th, which is when Siegfried Betker was writing his diary entry, it's the RAF lose four aircrew, five aircraft, Luftwaffe, 28 air crew and nine aircraft. So. And if you can, the other thing to remember is the Luftwaffe has been at it since May 10th. You know, no one stopped that. The tempo of operations for the Luftwaffe has been relentless since the, since the start of the campaign in northwest Europe, in France.
- [30:47]
James Holland
So it feels to a lot of these guys, it's just a continuation. The interesting thing is, so Stukas are attacking whatever shipping they're finding in the, in the Channel. It's mainly Stukas at this point. There are a few Junkers 88s, but most of the heavy bombers haven't arrived at this stage. They're in the process of moving up, you know, and the Flutter 5 Air Fleet 5 is moving up to Norway. It's already there really. Pretty much Luftwaffe 2 is the largest by far and that is in, in northern France and then Luftwaffe 3 under Spurla. So Kesselring is commander of Luftwaffe 2 and Normandy. And no, Sper, sorry, is 5, isn't he? So it takes time to get all these, these planes up. But, but the, the Stukas are attacking shipping so trying to sort of goad the fighter planes out. Yeah, you know, as they're coming in, they don't want to, they don't want to give the British any respite. They want. It's not the all out attack yet, but this is kind of sort of needling operations. Let's kind of sort of chip away as much as we possibly can while we're waiting for the full scale attack, we're waiting for the Fuhrer to announce his plans, etc. Etc. And we're getting ready for the kind of all out assault. And let's do that by kind of chipping away at the British by attacking shipping in the Channel. You know, that's a good use of our bombs and our Stuka dive bombers. At the same time the British are thinking, well, if they're attacking our shipping, we've got to sort of defend them. But on the other hand, you know, Keith park, who is the commander of 11 group down, which covers the southeast of England, and Dowding, who is the commander in chief of RAF Fighter Command, whose task after all is to defend England, you know, they're thinking, well, you know, we don't want to waste our planes over the Channel where, you know, they bail out there in the drink and might not be recovered again. And secondly, you know, we don't want to waste any planes now on operations that we don't need to fly. So the question is, why are they responding at all? And the reason is, is because we still need these east coast convoys. Why do we need these east coast convoys? Because it's the movement of oil and foodstuffs and you know, the general kind of sort of day to day operations of the country. They haven't abandoned the east coast convies at this point, but to limit the damage. Keith park, the commander in chief of 11 group covering Southeast England has ordered that only flights go out. So flight is six. So squadron, a British squadron, would you have 12 airborne at any one time, divided into A flight and B flight, which is then divided into sectors. You're sending out two flights of two sections of three, one flight of six. That, that's how they're sending them out, to try and minimize the number of planes because obviously the more planes you say them over, there's always proportion are going to be injured and attacked and hit. That's the theory behind it.
- [33:17]
Al Murray
And they've been training in flights rather than squadrons up to this point because they're inventing the techniques they need to defend the country anyway. So the flight is, the flight within the squadron is the sort of standard unit of people who can fly coherently together because there are limitations of what they could do with the radio technology they've got as well.
- [33:36]
James Holland
But, but again, look at, look at the losses of the RAF. You know, 14th of July, one pilot killed, one plane shot down Monday the 15th of July, no pilots killed, two planes lost. 16th of July, one pilot Killed, one plane lost. 17th of July, one pilot lost, one plane lost. I mean, you know, so it's not excessive.
- [33:54]
Al Murray
The ratios on Both those last two days are one to four. So the RAF lose one for the Luftwaffe, losing four, and the same again on the 17th of July. And that'll do. That's a cost they're prepared to bear.
- [34:07]
James Holland
Yeah, because in the same way that the, you know, so the question is. So why are raf, why is fighter command responding to this? Because they're trying to chip away at the Luftwaffe as well, in exactly the same way that the Luftwaffe is trying to chip out whatever they can shoot down. Now, they're not going to. The Germans then aren't going to have for the main attack when, when they know it, you know, when the British know it's going to come. So it's a kind of, it's, it's, it's a fine line. It's a balance. And this is why you get not very many Spitfires and Hurricanes taking on the Luftwaffe in July 1940. But things are picking up, and it's interesting, on the 17th of July, Churchill visits the south coast, and this is where that famous picture of him is taken with. Holding the Tommy gun with the. The bowler hat and the, you know, and the, and the. And the cigar and all the rest of it. Colonel Raymond Lee, but at the time.
- [34:56]
Al Murray
Jim, that's one of the six Tommy guns in the country, basically, isn't it? That's the unfortunate truth. Yeah, but.
- [35:03]
James Holland
But it's all about. It's all about image, it's all about impression.
- [35:05]
Al Murray
Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
- [35:06]
James Holland
Gives, gives the notion that we've got lots of submachine guns. Anyway, he's accompanied by Colonel Raymond Lee, and he is the U. S. Military attacher. Lee keeps a very, very good diary, which is fascinating. He's an Anglophile, he's a big fan, and he thinks that somehow Britain's gonna hold on. And so he's an antidote to the American ambassador, Joe Kennedy, father of JFK and rfk.
- [35:28]
Al Murray
Yes, yes.
- [35:29]
James Holland
And he writes in his diary. Every day that he puts it off is immensely valuable. He's talking about Hitler here. And I should say that in another three weeks the coastline will be nearly impregnable to ordinary attack. I was like, hooray. You know, because what he's seeing is, you know, coils of barbed wire and mines. And the truth is, by, by the kind of third week of July, there's 1.3 million troops in Britain, including the Local Defense Volunteers, which will in August become the Home Guard, as well as 22,000 Canadians, already 16,000 Aussies and Kiwis from New Zealand, and the monthly intake from conscription is about 50,000. So, you know, literally every hour that passes is good news for Britain's chances. Although they might have the numbers, but they haven't got the kit. That's the problem.
- [36:14]
Al Murray
Yeah. And they certainly don't have the guns. And there's only. In June, there's only 35, 25 pounders produced at all. So, yeah, yeah, there are some shortcomings. But, I mean, he's right, though. Lee is right. Every day it's put off is, you know, a step ahead for the British. Every day they delay, you'll get through the summer and the weather will get worse. There's all that to consider as well if you're trying to cross the Channel. But the shipping attacks carry on.
- [36:40]
James Holland
There is a. Well, yes, and there are these little markers of increased intensity and one of those, it's quite a major Marker, actually, is the 19th of July. It's the same day that Hitler makes his peace offer at the Kroll Opera House in Berlin. But there's fierce activity on Dover. You know, this is Stukas coming over and attacking shipping in the ports. And, you know, defiance of 141 Squadron are still in operation. You know, Defiance haven't been kicked out of the battle yet and they're absolutely hammered. And just after noon, the RDF stations, which we'll come to in our next episode, RDF being radar, now known as radar, they detect signs of enemy concentrations. By 12:15, the Stukas are already attacking two destroyers in Dover Harbour. The defending fighters only leave the ground at around 12:20. And this is 111 Squadron of Hurricanes and 141 Squadron in Defiance. And the Defiance are actually ordered to go fly straight to cap grisnet at 5,000ft to go and hammer the German fighters and the Stukas. But they're spotted by 109s. 141 Squadron claims to have shot down four 109s, but this is pretty unlikely to be fair, Whatever was the score, there was only one lesson to be learned, writes the official history of the Battle of Britain, and that is that it was folly to send a turret fighter such as a Defiant into action in an area in which it might meet the 109.
- [37:59]
Al Murray
What? The defiant is right. Anyone who's listening to this, I mean, I know someone on our Patreon listener of many years will know exactly what the bolt and pull Defiant is. But basically this is a fighter that at a glance looks like a Hurricane. It's got a Merlin engine, it's got that same kind of, same kind of wing shape. But what it's got behind the pilot is a gun turret with four machine guns in that can rotate and be aimed at passing targets or whatever. And the problem with that is the turret is very, very, very heavy. It's extremely slow, it hasn't got any forward firing guns so it can't line up behind something and give it a squirt or reliant on the guy behind the pilot. Busted flush.
- [38:37]
James Holland
You can see how the designers are thinking this might be a good idea. Hey, we'll have a fast modern monoplane can do 300 miles an hour a stretch. But the great thing is rather than just having machine guns pointing one way, this one you can move wherever you want. What's not to like? Well what's not to like is it's not fast enough, it's not mobile enough, you can't bring the guns to bear and they get slaughtered every time they venture forth. Which is exactly what happens on this occasion.
- [39:00]
Al Murray
Yeah.
- [39:00]
James Holland
So you know two Defiants are immediately shot down in the first engagement, seven more in the ensuing melee. So you know they're on their way trying to get to Cap Grune. In fact they're just falling in droves over Dover Harbor. 111 Squadron joins 2 Lates although does claim three 109s. Only three Defiants return. Four pilots are killed, two wounded, six air gunners killed in action. Two days later, 141 Squadron of Defiance is moved from the Biggin Hill sector to Preswick and it's followed on the 24th by all the other, by the only other Defiance squadron. And that is the Defiance gone from the Battle of Britain.
- [39:35]
Al Murray
Oh that's you know, because I mean it does look like a plane a six year old, seven year old would design. It's got turret on it.
- [39:41]
James Holland
That day of disaster for the Defiance, the Luftwaffe lose more aircrew than the raf.
- [39:46]
Al Murray
Yeah, yeah.
- [39:47]
James Holland
And it carries on attacks on the shipping. They're really, they're really focusing on the kind of, you know, the narrow stretch of the channel between Dover and Cap Grenade in, you know, the Pas de Calais.
- [39:58]
Al Murray
They're concentrating what they were capable of and it makes a lot of sense to attack shipping. You know this is after all what, what raider has recommended that you attack shipping and you, you disrupt Britain's maritime trade. It's pretty actually on the Face of it, it's pretty sensible, isn't it?
- [40:13]
James Holland
Yes. And the main time, in the meantime, you know, the. The build up of the Luftwaffe is continuing in the Pas de Calais, in airfields in the Low Countries, in Holland and Belgium, in northern France and in Normandy, and indeed even on islands. Now that they've got control of the Channel Islands, Hitler for the first time mentions an earlier attack on Russia than originally planned. Originally sort of talking 1943, 1944, something like that. He now mentions, maybe we need to do this sooner. And on the same day, Sunday 21st July, that is the first major Luftwaffe planning conference that Goering holds for the attack on England, which is held at Caron hall, which is his great big mention, kind of to the northeast of. Of Berlin, in the woods up there. And at this conference where he has all his senior commanders there, he's quite specific about instructions for his fighters. You know, he goes. Putting the majority of the fighters and Zestora close to the bomber formations will prevent them from being used as effectively as they might. They would be unable to achieve their full fighting capability and would inevitably have high losses. He couldn't have been clearer about this point. In other words, what he's saying is you can't have your fighter planes doing close escorts of the bombers. What you need is you need your fighter planes to operate at their max speed, max capability. That is the way to use your fighters. And on this, he's absolutely spot on. But, but, but anyone who's listening to this episode and future episodes in this series, hold on to that thought because he might change his mind.
- [41:41]
Al Murray
This is the signature of the entire battle, isn't it? Is that he can't make. He can't change his mind because he can't make his mind up. His boss can't make his mind up, so he can't make his mind up, so the people below him can't make their minds up. No one can make their minds up, but the British have made their minds up. It's the. About how they're going to defend Britain. So you end. What you have is this sort of constant churn of indecision against actually a set of people who've decided what they're going to do and how they're going to improve it as they go forward. Whereas the Germans don't get the chance even to improve what they're doing, because the key. Changing their minds.
- [42:11]
James Holland
Exactly. And the air fighting continues while all this is going on, while there's prevaricating is going on. Little lone Rays, little Stukas going on, you know. So for example, you know, 87 Squadron for Fighter Command they're flying Hurricanes, they're based at Exeter in the southwest and at 5am you know, they're up having, waiting for their breakfast, they're having a little nap before for Brecker and suddenly they get, they're told that a patrol is needed over Lundy Island. Roland B. Beamont, who is a pre war pilot, has served in France in Hurricanes in 87 Squadron survived and got back home again, you know. He is one of three to take off and they just clear the Devon coast when they spot a Ju 88, a single Ju 88 twin engine bomber. And Beaumont's two colleagues who are Rob Vose, Jeff and Harry Mitchell. They head off towards it for a gap in the clouds. But Beaumont dives to the left of the cloud hoping to cut off the Junkers and ends up right behind it as he comes out of the cloud ahead of Vose, Jeff and Mitchell. So he opens fire at just 2, 200 yards. Pretty soon the rear gunner on the Junkers 88 starts firing and then smoke starts streaming from the, from the plane and, and the ju88 arcs downwards in a gentle dive and Bmont follows it as it crosses back over the, over the coast. You know, he thinks no crew can ever escape but then suddenly sees one parachute blossom and a moment later it's kind of, you know, the pilot is touching the ground just as the, as the Junkers 88 is hitting the ground and sliding across a field through a hedge. Then the back of it is broken and catches fire. But, but as B. Beamont's circling around him, he's watching all the rest of the crew clamber out and then sees an old Morris truck trundled towards it and the aldv, the local defence volunteers get out and round up the crew and as Beaumont noted, we return to breakfast with a considerably stimulated appetite. But I think it's a nice little vignette that, because it demonstrates a different type of engagement that's going on. You know, lone raiders. This is the Luftwaffe trying to find out what's going on. It's kind of part reconnaissance mission is trying to find targets, they're kind of probing away, trying different things. While the Stukas are kind of, you know, attacking Harwich or Dover or whatever or Southend, these lone planes are also going on and also more and more Luftwaffe fighter planes are reaching the front. So on the same day, 24th of July, Guntheraal who ends up becoming the third highest ace ever in the history of aviation with 275 kills by the time the wars end. But this point in 9th of July 1940, he's very much kind of sort of new to this game. And he's part of the third group of Jagdgeschwada 52 JG52. And they reach Kokel in the Pas de Calais on the 22nd of July. And from there he can see the white cliffs. And Kokel is another very hastily built rough field. You know, these are all having to be carved out of farmland immediately. You know, there's the rye has been cut by resentful farmer. A small hay barn has been turned into an ops room. But the field isn't remotely flat. There's a big ridge bridge in the middle of it. And from from where you take off on one side to the other side, you can't see the other side, you know, so it's quite substantial. And taking off in a mass scramble that makes that very, very difficult. It's also very difficult in a plane like a Metrosmith 109, which is quite sensitive, to take off and land in. By the 24th of July, they've only had one orientation flight. But. But be that as it may, at 1 o' clock they're ordered to 2,000 meters, so that's about 6,000ft to join Stukas of 1stg2 over Boulogne at 120. So they do that. It's a grey, drizzly day and they've been ordered to escort the Stukas. So not operate at their own speed, but close escort them, which goes exactly against what Goring had said just three days earlier. No one's happy about it. They're all really grumpy about it and, you know, raw. Like every other fighter pilot believes the best way to protect the bombers as such as the Stukas, is to fly ahead with height and speed and clear the air ahead of them.
- [46:03]
Al Murray
So why are they not doing that?
- [46:04]
James Holland
Well, because at a localized level, the bomber commanders seem to have the kind of higher rank and they're issuing the orders saying, no, no, no, we want to be close escorted. You know, they've just got their tactics wrong. Anyway, they meet up with the Stu because they fly over at just 160 miles per hour. I mean, the 109s are almost kind of falling out of the sky. Then suddenly, with no warning at all, the Spitfires are all over the place, you know, and These are from 6, 10 and 54 Squadron, you know, pouncing on them as the Stukas attacking Dover port and you know, and in seconds Rawls group, you know, Schwarm A finger four, which is the formation which they fly. You know, they're all separated. There's no question at all of protecting the Stukas. They're all looking after themselves and trying to kind of get out of the melee. And as he noted in his diary, Roald Rahl wrote, the Tommies caught us just as we had feared, like proverbial clay pigeons. You know, several pilots are missing. So they get back home, back to Kokel on their bumpy airfield, rough Airfield. The 7th Stafford Commander Herbert Ferma and one of the pilots, Erich Frank, they're both missing. Also gone is the grouper commander Wolf Dietrich von Heuwald Von Hoevald and Frank are both washed up in Dunkirk a few days later. And Roll's own 8th Staffel Commander Lova Ehrlich is also gone. You know, so he's only 22 years old and he's now told to take command of the scaffold. You know, they just can't understand how the Spitfires have known how to find them because of course it wasn't like this in Poland and France. And the reason is because the liftwater intelligence is absolutely dreadful and it's rotten.
- [47:33]
Al Murray
For, for lots of reasons but principally good old fashioned Nazi reasons, isn't it? Which are that yeah, you've got the wrong man in the wrong job which is a fellow called Urban Joseph Beppo Schmidt who's a beer hall put thug.
- [47:48]
James Holland
He's a good laugh if you want to Nazi. Exactly.
- [47:51]
Al Murray
He's one of Gerring's cronies. He doesn't do foreign languages but he's, you know, he's been in the punch ups back in the old days. Guring also as well as having him running his intelligence going, has his own intelligence service called the for which is actually just for him spying on his rivals. And Hitler lets that go. And then you've also got the, the official intelligence source which is third Abteiling under General Martini who's handling Sigil's intelligence. And then fifth Abteilung are also. They're supposed to get foreign air force intelligence.
- [48:25]
James Holland
Yeah. So Schmidt is the head of the FIFAB Thailand, but because he's on Goering's personal staff, even though he's a colonel, he's more important than the Martini who is a general. And you know, you couldn't have someone less qualified for this task of picking up foreign intelligence information on foreign air forces because he doesn't speak any Other.
- [48:45]
Al Murray
Language is he's built on a thing called study Blau, which is from 39, which has been prepared by Milk, who'd been to Britain and had a look at what was going on and got. And been writing to British booksellers to get extra info.
- [48:57]
James Holland
Dear Waterstones, Dear Wassersteiner.
- [49:01]
Al Murray
You know, again, the harebrained naivety at the heart of it, but basically, Schmidt presents this picture on the 16th of July. And obviously.
- [49:08]
James Holland
Yeah, but isn't it interesting that it's him that's presenting this picture for the intelligence situation? You know, his intelligence report on the British Air Forces, you know, even though he's a colonel and Martini as a. As a general, I mean, it's just bonkers. Yeah, but be that as it may.
- [49:23]
Al Murray
That'S how it works. Right. And he says this, he says that the RAF of 675 Spitfires and Hurricanes. So he's not far off, but he doesn't know about what's in place.
- [49:33]
James Holland
This is ballpark figure. He's. He's plucked that out of nowhere, by the way. Yeah.
- [49:36]
Al Murray
Yeah, it looks like it. That sounds about right. Right. And he doesn't know that the British have a thing in place called the Civilian Repair Organization. He doesn't know about shadow factories and all the stuff that the British have in place to produce new aircraft. He also is thinking in terms of airframes rather than people, because after all, you know, the planes. The planes are one thing, it's the pilots that are another. And in fact, that's where the pinch comes for the RAF is in terms of personnel. And he claims that the Messersmith 110, the Zestora, the destroyer, is superior to the Hurricane, which is an optimistic way of looking things, looking at things. And most importantly, he does not know that the RAFs in, in its commands, which are Coastal Command, Fighter Command, Bomber Command, Training Command, he doesn't know about any of that. And the thing he really doesn't know about is the air defense system.
- [50:24]
James Holland
There is no mention of it at all. I mean, it is just extraordinary. And the interesting. He also claims that the RAF structure, an organization is rigid and inflexible. It's just bizarre because basically the opposite of what he says. Apart from the kind of rough approximate number of Spitfires and Hurricanes, literally everything he says is incorrect. It's just really, really interesting. And his conclusion is this. The Luftwaffe is clearly superior to the RAF as regards strength, equipment, training, command and location of bases.
- [50:54]
Al Murray
Wow.
- [50:55]
James Holland
You know, and actually the bases are a huge advantage for the raf. Because they're widespread, you know, which means you've got to attack. You know, they're all over the place.
- [51:02]
Al Murray
The other thing is these are RAF prepared positions with the infrastruct and the. Everything that goes with them, prepared and ready. Whereas the Luftwaffe has had to. Has had to rush to France, set itself up in a great hurry. So everything's inadequately sourced and resourced. There's a lot to be said for the fact that the Germans have absolutely no idea what they get themselves into, isn't there, at this stage of the war? Thank God for that. I mean, the thing is, though, their intelligence about, about, you know, about the state of the French army before Case Yellow is crap too. Right. But they get lucky, whereas here they are winging it and they get it wrong.
- [51:36]
James Holland
Yeah.
- [51:36]
Al Murray
Which is fascinating.
- [51:38]
James Holland
By the end of July, you know, convoys are still being hammered, flights are still being sent out to intercept the raiders. As they're attacking these convoys, everyone's getting pissed off. I mean, 609 Squadron, for example, based at Middle Wallop, they go down to forward base at Warmwell, which is in Dorset, it's just near Dorchester. You know, they're losing men and they kind of think, well, you know, what's the point? Why are we doing this? You know, why are we losing men when we're not actually really achieving very much? And, you know, it's clear that. But, you know, Dowding, the Commander in Chief of Fighter Command, is also worried. You know, accidents are adding to the casualty list. You know, they're about third in all of, you know, exhausted pilots are no good to anyone. And he's quite right. So he orders at the end of July that all pilots must have at least 8 hours rest per day and 28 and 24 hours leave a week. And it's soon after that he introduces 48 hours every. Every two weeks for pilots. And that's one of the reasons why you need more, more than 12 pilots in a squadron. You need 20 to 24, because you always need 12 to be in the air at any one time. And this means 10 to 12 pilots per flight of six. So that's your 20 to 24 pilots per squadron. You know, there's lots of people who sort of go, well, I was annoyed I wasn't on the slate, or I was relieved I wasn't on the slate for flying that morning. And that means you've got this, this sort of little bit of wiggle room, a bit of sort of.
- [52:57]
Al Murray
Of redundancy.
- [52:58]
James Holland
Redundancy. That's exactly the Word. But no such concessions in the Luftwaffe, I hasten to add.
- [53:04]
Al Murray
So this combat continues at this kind of intensity until the end of July really, doesn't it? With the RAF essentially generally maintaining the upper hand every day in terms of numbers. And by the end of July. This is very interesting, isn't it? Because the RAF have lost 91 aircraft, 68 aircrew. The Luftwaffe have lost twice as many aircrew aircraft, 185 and 348 aircrew are lost, killed. And this is for the month where things haven't got going yet. You know the direction of travel if you're the Luftwaffe, is not good, right?
- [53:37]
James Holland
No, it's not good. And what we'll do in our next episode is we'll actually look at the organization of both, both Fighter Command and the British Air defence system, which is new and untested, and also what the Germans have got. We've talked a bit about their intelligence and their woeful intelligence, but let's have a look at at their other structures and then we'll go back into kind of what becomes the end of the first phase, which is leading up to 7th of August 1940 and then what becomes known as the second phase, which of course is the great launch of the attack of the Eagles Adler Angriff, which begins wholeheartedly or damp squibbly, depending on which way you look at it, on the 13th of August 1940, which of course is Adlertag Eagle Deck. But that's all to come. That is very much the kind of the scene setter. I would say. We've got a bit more scene setting to do in our next episode as we look at how these two sides are organizing themselves. And let me tell you, it's quite different.
- [54:31]
Al Murray
So we'll see you for our next episode. If you need to listen to these or watch these all in one giant chunk, then become a Patreon member. These nuggets of wisdom can be delivered to you without adverts. Thanks very much for listening. We'll see you soon. Cheerio.
- [55:02]
Ryan Reynolds
Trip Planner by Expedia. You were made to outdo your holiday, your hammocking and your pooling. We were made to help organize the competition. Expedia made to travel.