The Channel Dash: The Battle of The Narrow Seas (Part 3)

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: WW2 Pod: We Have Ways of Making You Talk
Hosts: Al Murray & James Holland
Episode: The Channel Dash: The Battle of The Narrow Seas (Part 3)
Date: March 10, 2026

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Overview of Episode Theme

This episode continues Al and James's deep dive into the dramatic events of the "Channel Dash"—Operation Cerberus—the daring February 1942 breakout of the German battleships Scharnhorst, Gneisenau, and cruiser Prinz Eugen from Brest through the English Channel. With trademark wit and detailed research, the hosts unpack the British response, examining in detail the failures of Operation Fuller and the tragic heroism of the Swordfish crews. The episode’s tone is one of incredulity, frustration, and deep respect for those who paid the ultimate price.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Scene: Prelude to Disaster

[01:33]

• Al Murray opens with a somber firsthand account from Tom Gleave on the haunted look of Eugene Esmond, Commander of 825 Squadron, as he embarks on his mission—signaling the doom and gloom pervading the episode.
  • “The look on his face shook me. It was the face of a man already dead...” – Al Murray reading Gleave

[02:28]

• The setup: Germans display planning mastery and secrecy, while British efforts are marked by improvisation, poor communication, and confusion. The overall British response is hamstrung by lack of clear contingency procedures and coordination.

[04:16]

• Germans break centuries of naval logic by brazenly racing through the Channel in daylight; British command can’t believe it is happening.
  • “It makes no sense. No one has done this for centuries. It’s too dangerous, it’s too audacious, it’s too impossible. But so far, Germans have gone unspotted.” – Al Murray

[04:46]

• Leigh Mallory, the RAF commander, is criticized for being unavailable during the crisis, prioritizing ceremonial duties over operational response.
  • “Leigh Mallory...every time I think maybe I’ve been harsh on him, something else comes to light that makes me think, nope, he really was crap.” – James Holland

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British Response: Operation Fuller Unfolds

[06:16]

• Operation Fuller, the British counter-plan, is theoretically formidable—with capital guns at Dover, destroyers, Beaufort torpedo bombers, and coastal artillery. In practice, a lack of assets and readiness badly undermines its potential.

[07:27 – 10:23]

• Only six Swordfish are ready for attack; most crews are undertrained and under-equipped.
• RAF fighters and Bomber Command are not fully available or effective, plagued by confusion, shortages, and a reliance on outdated plans designed for night operations.

[09:04]

• Naval reluctance to engage the Home Fleet, mainly due to concerns about the battleship Tirpitz and fear of repeating recent disasters (e.g., loss of Prince of Wales and Repulse).

[11:28]

• Vice Admiral Ramsey at Dover is left to scramble a piecemeal response with what assets he has—a couple of motor torpedo boats and the handful of Swordfish.

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The Army’s Moment: Coastal Batteries Attempt Engagement

[12:49–17:21]

• Coastal artillery at Dover (South Foreland battery, 9.2-inch guns) attempts to target the German fleet using newly installed radar and plotting—but is ultimately stymied by weather, smoke, technical inexperience, and the inability to discriminate targets.

  • “So the radar’s new. They have never tried to do this before. They have never tried to lay guns on and judge the shot purely by radar location.” – Al Murray

• 33 shells fired; no hits scored. German commander’s reaction is one of smug satisfaction.

  • “Well that wasn’t much, was it?” – German gunnery commander Paulus [17:52] (quoted by James)

• [14:56] James brings up “Guns of Navarone” in comparison—the Germans have essentially braved exactly the situation the movie is based on, in reverse.

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The Swordfish Attack: Heroism and Tragedy

[20:25–22:12]

• Painful admiration from both hosts for the Fleet Air Arm, but both note the attack order is essentially a death sentence.
  • “It’s not a suicide mission as such, Jim, but it’s a suicide mission. Right?” – Al Murray
  • “To say to Esmond, well, you don’t have to go – that’s such a terrible, terrible thing to do.” – James Holland

[23:01]

• Discussion of Eugene Esmond: his Irish nationalist background, distinguished RAF and naval career, flying brilliance, and outsized experience.

[29:03–30:48]

• The crews of 825 Squadron swordfish are named and honored. A poignant account of how the final pilot was chosen—by the toss of a coin.

The Attack

[31:10–34:35]

• The six Swordfish (with scant Spitfire escorts due to weather and miscoordination) approach the entire might of the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine.

• German fighters (109s and 190s) ravage the Swordfish—Esmond’s machine is seen hit and destroyed; only scattered survivors emerge.

  • Vivid account of the slaughter, with moving eyewitness testimony:
    • “We were still flying straight towards the enemy and a plane becoming more difficult to handle with every second...I never grasped then just how smashed up we were...Looming out of the mist was one of the target ships, the Prinz Eugen...” – Pat Kingsmill [as read by James Holland, 33:21]

• Out of 18 men, 13 are killed; of 6 survivors, only 2 are unhurt. Esmond is later awarded the Victoria Cross posthumously.

  • “What does that [a Victoria Cross] tell us, Jim?”
    “It’s all going really badly wrong.” – Al Murray & James Holland [35:05]

• German command remarks on the British desperation:

  • “The English are throwing their mothball navy at us now.” – Diary of Ciliax or Captain Hoffman (attribution debated)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

[01:33] Al Murray

"The look on his face shook me. It was the face of a man already dead… It shocked me as nothing had done before, nor has done since."
(Reading Tom Gleave on Esmond – setting the tone of tragedy.)

[04:16] Al Murray

"It makes no sense. No one has done this for centuries. It's too dangerous, it's too audacious, it's too impossible."
(On the Germans' unprecedented move.)

[04:46] James Holland

"Leigh Mallory...every time I think maybe I've been harsh on him, something else comes to light that makes me think, nope, he really was crap."

[12:49] James Holland

"And the latter, as we've already been discussing, have been tipped off and are girding their loins accordingly, feeling sick inside and knowing that this is a flight they're unlikely to return from."

[14:56] James Holland & Al Murray

"Isn't this the whole point of Guns of Navarone?...This is a reverse Guns of Navarone situation."

[20:47] Al Murray

"We are absolute diehard fans of the Fleet Air Arm...drama, guts, grit, tactical and strategic effect..."

[21:34] James Holland

"But that's a terrible thing to say because, you know, Esmond can't say no, can he?"

[22:12] James Holland

"I'm not a fan of Dudley Pound. I think he's going to be on that list as well."
(Of worst Allied commanders)

[23:04] Al Murray

"They're due a 10 aircraft Spitfire Escort...but it's scattered by heavy cloud. Only part of the escort arrives."

[30:48] Al Murray

"...when the moment comes, as I say, they toss a coin and Sub Lieutenant Bligh calls and wins and Bennett stays behind."
(Joking gallows humor: “Damn it, you lucky blighter. You're going to go to your immediate death, heads or tails.”)

[33:21] James Holland (Pat Kingsmill’s account)

"We were still flying straight towards the enemy and a plane becoming more difficult to handle with every second...I lined the plane up against her. Everything was so confused I cannot even remember pressing the torpedo release..."

[35:05]

"A Victoria Cross? What does that tell us, Jim?"
"It's all going really badly wrong."
(On the futility and sacrifice of the attack.)

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Important Timestamps by Segment

• [01:33] – Moving Gleave quote on Eugene Esmond
• [02:28] – Overview of British/German planning approaches
• [04:46–05:24] – Critique of Leigh Mallory and RAF command failure
• [07:27–10:23] – Evaluation of British assets, readiness, and operational confusion
• [12:49–17:21] – Coastal artillery attempts and technical/radar limitations
• [20:25–22:12] – The Swordfish mission as a de facto suicide order; Ramsay and Esmond’s positions
• [23:04–25:32] – Eugene Esmond’s biography; Fleet Air Arm context
• [30:48] – Swordfish attack; the coin toss
• [31:10–34:35] – Description of the doomed attack, witness accounts, and aftermath
• [35:05–35:40] – Reflections on heroism, Victoria Cross, and the meaning of recognition in defeat

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Closing Reflection

Al and James conclude with emotional exhaustion and outrage at the futility and error-strewn British response, contrasting strategic ineptitude with the fearlessness and devotion of the Swordfish crews. The episode closes as a somber tribute to the fallen—highlighting not just military blunders but also remarkable human courage in the face of near-certain death.

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Next Up

The saga continues in the next episode, where Al and James will track the further unfolding disaster of Operation Fuller and its failed attempts to thwart the Channel Dash.

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Transcript

[Al Murray]

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[Al Murray]

The look on his face shook me. It was the face of a man already dead. I'd known him as a vital man, alive and eager for anything. Now his eyes were dulled, his face gray, almost haggard, the sort of vacant, lifeless face you read about but never expect to see. He barely recognized me, although his mouth twitched automatically into the semblance of a grin and an arm lifted in a vague wave. It shocked me as nothing had done before, nor has done since. And that's Tom Gleave describing Eugene Esmond, the commanding officer of 825 Naval Air Squadron, on his way to his swordfish to take off at 12:25 on February 12, 1942.

[James Holland]

That doesn't sound very good, does it?

[Al Murray]

It doesn't sound good. And we are in for. I'm afraid we're in for an episode of that sort of thing. Welcome to we have ways of making you talk with me, Al Murray and James Holland as we come to part three of the Channel Dash, the Battle of the Narrow Seas.

[James Holland]

And this is proving difficult for me. I'm not going to lie. Tom Gleave, great man, actually, Battle of Britain veteran, but also was involved in writing the official histories.

[Al Murray]

This is no wilting violet of a fighter man. This is a man who knows aerial combat inside out. So for him to say that about Esmond I think is really quite telling. So here we are. This is Operation Cerberus versus Operation Fuller, the big showdown. Preparation versus improvisation. On the German side, meticulous planning. On the British side, not quite so

[James Holland]

meticulous, ridiculous planning, but in the wrong way.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah. Well, what the Germans also do, they exercise very, very great and powerful operational secrecy, but everyone does actually know what they're doing, whereas the British operational secrecy and no one knows what they're doing. There's a lot of bad luck on the British side, as we saw in the first half of the sort of dash. The first sort of, first sort of 18 hours.

[James Holland]

Goddamn that cloud.

[Al Murray]

And also that fused radar set in. Pilot officers, Windsor's Hudson. The weather's getting a casting vote and everything, right?

[James Holland]

Yes. A little recap I think is important, don't you?

[Al Murray]

Yeah, I think so. So as we saw in the last episode, the capital ships, the battle fleet, the Scharnhorst, the Prinz Eugen and the Gneisenau left Brest at around 21:30 hours after sitting tight during an air raid.

[James Holland]

That was bad luck.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, I know. I mean, just even that the last recce plane goes over and sees them still in port rather than sees them having left. They're steaming full tilt for German waters. They sailed when the Admiralty has neither predicted nor prepared for. There is no contingency in place for basically the Germans being coming through the Straits of Dover in daylight. They haven't prepared that. No one.

[James Holland]

Because who would do that?

[Al Murray]

It makes no sense. No one has done this for centuries. It's too dangerous, it's too audacious, it's too impossible. But so far, Germans have gone unspotted. It's plain sailing even despite plenty of radar plots that morning. Confusion, poor communication in terms of hierarchy. And here's the thing, Jim. Leigh Mallory that morning is on ceremonial duties. Of course he is and will not be interrupted by a call from a group captain trying to alert him to the Channel dash.

[James Holland]

I mean, the thing is with Leigh Mallory is he just continues to dig himself into an ever deeper hole as far as I'm concerned. Every time I kind of, I think, oh, maybe I've been a bit harsh on him, something else comes to light that makes me think, nope, he really was crap.

[Al Murray]

After this series we're going to do a wash up for Patreon members and there's some extra Leigh Mallory fan red meat in that, in that episode, if that's what people fancy.

[James Holland]

And just saying that we have way best six, we will be doing the worst commanders in the west, worst in the West. And we're not limiting it to army.

[Al Murray]

I'm just saying that there's disjointed comms between the different commands within the RAF and between the Navy and the Royal Air Force. Overloaded phone lines. So the RAF and the ability haven't been able to see, let alone counter, the fleet that is literally sailing right under their noses. And what's interesting, the German fighter cover, the donuts of Messerschmitts and 109s over the. Over. The fleet has not attracted the attention it's due. They're just sort of going, well, they must. There's something funny going on. Maybe they're. Who knows? And the problem is, is Hitler, who said the British will be unable to respond to such surprise? He's right, but he hasn't. He didn't dare dream that the British would be this slack.

[James Holland]

Hitler being right also really hurts. I mean, you know, even if it's.

[Al Murray]

Even if it's probably for the wrong reasons. So Operation Fuller has been authorized around about 11:30 on the morning of February 12th.

[James Holland]

And Operation Fuller is pretty full on, isn't it? Let's face it, in theory, on paper,

[Al Murray]

lots of assets, right? The big guns at Dover.

[James Holland]

And they really are big guns.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, they really are big guns. But we'll get to the Gunnery 825 Naval Air Squadron, which is six Swordfish torpedo bombers which have been moved up from Leon Solent.

[James Holland]

Only six.

[Al Murray]

The rest are at Leon Solent. Right. But by the time.

[James Holland]

So it's a flight.

[Al Murray]

Yes, it's a flight. So what you've actually got is you've got a load more at Leon Solent, but they don't have the crews, they're understaffed and they just don't have the people. And also, doing 90 knots to catch a fleet sailing at 30 is actually quite a tall order. Swordfish's range isn't what it could be and all this sort of thing. This squadron, though, 825, has been reformed post the Bismarck action and is full of fresh crews. So Eugene Esmond, who we'll meet later on, who's in charge, has been bringing them up to speed. And we'll go have a proper look at Esmond later then. Coastal Command has three squadrons of Beauforts, one that's in Cornwall in case the Germans go round into the Atlantic and go around the long way. One in Scapa and one at RAF Coltischall, which is flown down that morning from RAF Leuckers as part of reorganisation in order to be on hand for the battle fleet. But there aren't any torpedoes at Coltishall because it's a fighter station. And there are Hudson's too, from Coastal Command. Bomber Command on paper has more than 200 aircraft, but the number's going to be more like 100 available to it. Wellingtons, Hudsons, Manchesters. And the idea is they're going to attempt to attack the battle fleet on the iff and when. Bomber Command have done really well, actually, against Brest, the bomber commander. The reason that Ciliax's fleet is fleeing the French port, you know, it's 25 raids in November, between November and January, this relentless stuff. But they no good against ships in motion. So a ship that maybe has struck a mine and is disabled, they'll be able to hit that. But you've got to find the ships, you've got to penetrate the fighter screen the flak and also you've got to have clear orders about where they are and what you're trying to achieve. Right. Which is an essential part of Operation Fuller. And then of course, Fighter Command under the command of friend of the Show Sholto Douglas 11 group under Trafford Lee Mallory, they're on hand to escort whatever's going to happen as long as they have clear orders and information about the sorties ahead of them. Basically, I'm getting my excuses in early. The Royal Navy, they've got motor torpedo boats at Dover with accompanying motor torpedo boats at Ramsgate, Destroyers to come out of Harwich as part of the Nor Command, which is one of those long gone Royal Navy commands named after Sandbank in the Thames Estuary.

[James Holland]

Well, I mean, the thing is, to have a command, you've got to have ships, haven't you?

[Al Murray]

Yes.

[James Holland]

It's not going mothballing them. You've got to have them active.

[Al Murray]

They've got to actually be active. You can't, you can't. I mean, these destroyers, they're all, they're all, they're not the latest kit, but they're not mothballed, they are at least active and they, they're all on sort of sea trials and exercise and stuff when this goes on. So they're actually at sea, so they've not got to sail from Harwich critically to the Fuller Plan. Many people think Dudley Pound, who's First Sea Lord, he's decided the Home Fleet will stay at Scapa Flow. He's not letting it out. They're concerned about the Tirpitz. They don't want the Tirpitz breaking out and, you know, maybe the Channel Dashes are faint to get the Tirpitz out there could be that possibility. And also there is fresh sensitivity to the danger of air power after the loss of the Prince of Wales in the Far East. That's what they're really really worried about. Even though the Japanese of course have a specialist anti shipping bomber team that did that. They're not fully up to speed that they're just really really worried about that. And of course which is at odds the fact the RAF know how hard it is to hit ships. But basically, you know, the blow to naval prestige is always in their mind just as Nelson's always in their mind Imperial naval prestige. Now though, we reach the point where Ciliax and his fleet have been spotted. The operational code word Fuller has been issued. Go, go, go. Let's do it Jim. Yep. Or rather well, yes.

[James Holland]

So 11:30 hours that morning, yeah. We met Wing Commander Bobby Constable Roberts. How could he be called anything else?

[Al Murray]

Can't be good at anything else.

[James Holland]

At Ramsey's headquarters in Dover who's already told the 825 Naval Air Squadron Swordfish to bomb up. And he explained his reasoning later. One, it was important to try to cripple the enemy as quickly as possible where it could be reasonable to expect large surface units to destroy him. Two, to have attacked with the Beauforts would have meant separate fighter escorts as the Swordfish could fly at not more than 90 knots while the Beauforts would have extreme difficulty in flying at less than 150 knots. For the swordfish it would have meant a two and a half hours flight under constant enemy fighter attack to reach enemy ships. Three casualties were a foregone conclusion and there was more chance of picking up survivors if the battle took place within a few miles of our shores. What you think the British war effort is made of, Captain Mannerings? No sir. I mean do you remember Toby's signal before Bismarck?

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

You know, forgot to lose a battleship, we've got to lose a battleship.

[Al Murray]

So at noon Vice Admiral Otto Ciliax decides that as they're approaching the Dover Straits and haven't been attacked yet. Right. They might as well make smoke. Why not? They've done 360 miles unmolested, they've got 200 to go. They've been joined by the flotillas that have come down from Zeebrugge of S boats and stuff. And so with the destroyers the fleet is quite the target. Right. Although actually this will present a problem in itself because there's so many enemy vessels in this flotilla. At 12:15 Admiral Ramsay signals odd measures

[James Holland]

prepared in my command to counter the enemy move have been put into operation. But the Germans are at the Calais Dover line already.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. Incredible.

[James Holland]

Holy moly. So Ramsey has got two means of launching torpedoes at the battle fleet, the mtbs at Dover. This is the motor torpedo boats, the so fast ones that can do 30 knots more than that up to nearly 40 knots and 825 Naval Air Squadron at Manston. But it's not a squadron, as we said, it's only six Swordfish. It's two sub flights, isn't it? And the latter, as we've already been discussing, have been tipped off and are girding their loins accordingly, feeling sick inside and knowing that this is a flight they're unlikely to return from.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, exactly. We keep talking about the Navy and the Royal Air Force. It's time for the army to roll up its sleeves and get involved. Here it's core command, coastal artillery. Brigadier Rawl of 4 Corps who has coastal artillery guns and the enemy are now known as plot E29D. This is the plot that was first logged at 1050 hours at Fairlight in Hastings and then Liddon's spout. Report it at 11:29. This is the plot they've now decided on is the surface fleet. So Ramsey orders Rawl, who's at Dover Castle, to engage.

[James Holland]

And presumably at this point, you know, everyone's going to what this? You know, we're so prepared, we were so ready for this. And this is just absolutely crazy. How can this be, do you think? There's a bit of kind of, you know, heads going a bit kind of.

[Al Murray]

Oh, completely. I mean, the thing is, afterwards there's a lot of finger pointing, but basically there's this kind of complete funk descends over everybody and they end up in a some of their fears situation. I mean, so the Dover defenses do open fire. We'll get to that. The men are on a training drill when the orders come to engage. So they're at the guns, the guns report they're ready at 12:03, so pretty much, pretty much straight away. So the radar at Lyddensbow has the ship's plot, as we said, E29D. And then the guns have got a 10 centimeter K type radar which hasn't got such a long range and that starts looking for them. And at 12:15 hours. So 12 minutes after they're ready, they've got a fix. And that Radar's range is 32,000 yards. Right. And it picks them up at 32,000 yards, which is Just outside the gun's range. But it means they're coming into range. They're going to be right under the guns.

[James Holland]

Oh, okay, good.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So this should, this should, this should square off. Right? It's the south foreland battery. It's four 9.2-inch Mark 10 guns. They have an effective range of 31,500 yards, which is 17.9 miles.

[James Holland]

Jeez.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, I know. These are powerful pieces of ordnance.

[James Holland]

Can I just make a point? Isn't this the whole point of Guns of Navarone?

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

That you can't sail under naval, you know, coastal guns?

[Al Murray]

Yeah. Yes. This is a reverse Guns of Navarone situation.

[James Holland]

How can they possibly escape from this trap?

[Al Murray]

And what we don't have is a German David Niven slitting the throats of various people in the magazine at the South Fallen battery.

[James Holland]

No. So they haven't got a problem.

[Al Murray]

Here's the other thing. There are even bigger guns at Wanston. 15 inch naval style guns. Right. But these are no good for moving targets. They traverse too slowly. They can't lay those guns onto shipping. Right. They're good for lobbing shells over the Channel, but not for. Not for what we got here. So it's down to the lads at South Foreland, 1219 hours. They fire first half a half salvo, but the problem is summed up as the bearing was erratic due to the lack of target discrimination. In other words, it's such a big radar base, this big flotilla, that they can't pick a target out from the mass of ships.

[James Holland]

What's wrong with Binase?

[Al Murray]

Well, visibility five miles, James, so they're firing essentially blind on radar. Fan Bay, Langdon and the Breakwater Fort, the six inch positions. They fire as well. And as far as they can tell, the rounds splash short of the German column. As far as they can tell. But they can't tell. There's poor weather. Heavy smoke from the Escorts as well. Cloud obscures the line of sight and essentially no accurate fall of shot is recorded. So they don't even know how much they're missing by. Right. And the core problem here, the plotting the guns with the radar, is there's too many signals coming from the fleet's image and also the radar's new. They have never tried to do this before. They have never tried to lay guns on and judge the shot purely by radar location. Just not been done. And without eyes on, it can't be done. Right, so the station log starts at 1228 hours. Corps Commander, Coastal Artillery decided that as no Fall of shot had been observed. The battery should fire four gun salvos without waiting for fall of shot observations. Orders given to this effect. 12:30 hours. Battery Salvo additional thousand yards added as no fall of shot observed. And they stop at 12:52. They fired 33 rounds. No hits recorded. Little wonder they're firing blind. So that's. That's the army's contribution, Jim.

[James Holland]

I'm also thinking, why in the guns of Davarone don't they just make smoke and go free? Save me from horrible.

[Al Murray]

As we've seen, radar plotting is difficult, but I mean, it's. This enormous flotilla is making it harder. But basically they're trying something they've never, never done before.

[James Holland]

Well, it's hard not to feel a little deflated, isn't it?

[Al Murray]

Yes, exactly. And this, this gunnery also attracts the attention of some Stukas, which rock up to strike near and disrupt British observation posts. And there's counter battery fire from the Germans because they know where the guns are.

[James Holland]

And they've got those French guns, haven't they? Which they captured in 1940. Don't forget our old friend the Prinz Eugen. You know, they've been watching shells aimlessly sploshing into the ocean, you know, behind them. The gunnery commander called vetocapitain Paulus remarks. Well, that wasn't much, was it? Smug bastard. Anyway, so now we're getting down to the. Now we're getting down to it, aren't we? Should we take a break now before we do that?

[Al Murray]

Yeah, why not? Let's take a break before the fleet air arm intervene. We'll see you in a tick.

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[Al Murray]

Welcome back to we have Ways of Making youg Talk With Me, Al Murray and James Holland. I gotta say, Jim, Corvette and Capitaine Paulus saying, well, that wasn't much, was it? I mean, if this was the, the other way around, if the boot was on the other foot and that was a British gunnery commander, you'd be, you'd be patting him on the back for stoicism, wouldn't you?

[James Holland]

Yeah, yeah, but that's the key point you've just made. If the boot was on the other foot, I mean, it isn't. He's German and he's getting away with it. And it's my, my hackles have been raised.

[Al Murray]

Now on this show. We, we, I think it's fair to say we are absolute die hard fans of the Fleet Air Arm. We think that they're certainly. Their first phase of the war efforts are absolutely extraordinary. I've got everything in them you could possibly want. Drama, guts, grit, tactical and strategic effect. The odd cock up like trying to sink the Sheffield.

[James Holland]

Basically. These guys are tops.

[Al Murray]

They're tops. And they're getting in an aeroplane that by this phase of the war, and certainly against German fighter cover, this is an extremely short straw to have drawn to be flying Swordfish in daylight. Across the Channel, Bertrand Ramsay has been in agonies about ordering the Swordfish attack because he knows he's ordering the crews to their deaths because it's daylight and he knows that they've been preparing for a nighttime attack and that's the only way the Swordfish are going to possibly be effective. So he asks Constable Roberts, Wing Commander Bobby Roberts, to talk to Esmond and say to him that it's up to him whether he wants to go ahead with the attack or not.

[James Holland]

Oh, God. But that's a terrible thing to say because, you know, Esmond can't say no, can he?

[Al Murray]

No, no, he can't. And Esmond says he'll go ahead anyway. It's his duty.

[James Holland]

Oh, God. He said no, that, that's such a terrible, terrible thing to do.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah. And it might feel like the right thing to do. And these are brand new crews. Most of them are on their first sortie, I think, so.

[James Holland]

That's terrible.

[Al Murray]

So Ramsay then calls Dudley Pound, asking permission not to have to give the order to Esmond and his men. And Pound responds, the navy will attack the enemy whenever and wherever he is to be found. So that's it. Their fate's sealed. It's not a suicide mission as such, Jim, but it's a suicide mission. Right?

[James Holland]

Yeah, I. I'm not a fan of Dudley Pound. I think he's going to be on that list as well.

[Al Murray]

But given. But here's the thing, right? Make no mistake, this is the one part of the. Of the Fuller Plan that really is completely vulnerable to the daylight switch that the Germans have forced onto the Fuller Plan. Because, let's be honest now, they're not doing the Fuller Plan because the Fuller Plan's geared for night. So they're not doing Fuller. Fuller's gone out the window completely. This is some improvised thing. This is the part where they should be able to go, no, we're sucking it off.

[James Holland]

This is a terrible, terrible thing to do, to say to Esmond, well, it's up to you. You don't have to go. What's that sketch? I mean, it is that sketch, isn't it?

[Al Murray]

Yes. You see, we need. At this stage of the war, we need a futile jester. Get up over Germany, take your guide above Germany and don't come back. 825 Naval Air Squadron 6 Fairey Swordfish Mark 2 biplane. So the Mark 2 is a bit more powerful.

[James Holland]

Yeah, but you're splitting hairs, aren't you? I mean, it's a Swordfish.

[Al Murray]

They're due a 10 aircraft Spitfire Escort from 72, 124 squadrons, but it's scattered by heavy cloud. Only part of the escort arrives.

[James Holland]

Question here. What the heck is the rest of Fighter Command doing?

[Al Murray]

Well, they're all waiting for orders.

[James Holland]

Okay, why. Why don't you scramble 15 squadrons just

[Al Murray]

to attack the fighter cover? I don't know, Jim. You do the escorting, but you also aggressively assault.

[James Holland]

This is your chance to have your fight, your air combat. This is your chance to use your superiority to shoot down German planes.

[Al Murray]

No, Jim, not. Not today.

[James Holland]

What the heck?

[Al Murray]

Leigh Mallory's got to do some inspections this morning. Anyway, let's talk about Eugene Esmond, though. Let's look into him because. Because he is one of the. He's one of the cast iron characters of this story. So he's. He was born on March 1st, 9thurgoland, Yorkshire. He's of Irish nationalist heritage. He's one of 10 children for Dr. John Joseph Esmond and Eile O', Sullivan, and they are Irish nationalists. He was educated by Jesuits, Stonyhurst College in Lancashire. So, you know, he's got duty, discipline and faith running right through him.

[James Holland]

I would question the commitment to their Irish nationalism.

[Al Murray]

Well, yes, because he joins the Royal air Force in 1928.

[James Holland]

Well, and goes to Stonyhurst College, you know, a bastion of the empire and all the rest of it.

[Al Murray]

But he's an Irishman. He's an Irishman. And I think when we talked about, I mean, it was many, many podcasts ago when we talked to Joseph Quinn about who's joining the various British services in between the wars and why Irish people are going in, I think it's quite interesting that he fits into that picture. So he joins in 1928, becomes a fighter pilot. He flies aerobatics at Hendon with 43 Squadron, not unlike Douglas Barda with 29 Squadron. You know, those great, those great air shows where they'd all fly and sync together.

[James Holland]

They're called an air pageant.

[Al Murray]

That's right. It's all they can think to do with their fighters at the time. In 1931, that squadron is flying Hawker Furies, which is quite the machine. But Esmond has been transferred to RAF Gosport to join the nascent Fleet Air Arms. So he becomes a naval man. Gosport is set up for carrier landing training, torpedo attack methods, and it's also part of the Royal Navy's effort to redigest Air Force men into the Navy because the, the original Royal Naval Air Service was, was swallowed up by the Royal Air Force when it was formed in 1918. And this is the Navy's effort to draw out its own strand. And, you know, this is well ahead of time having aircraft carriers. This is cutting edge stuff.

[James Holland]

Yes.

[Al Murray]

He's posted to Courageous. She's been recommissioned and she's, she's part of the Home Fleet. So this is the air people in the Royal Navy getting their way, which we talked about when we talked about the Fleet Air army before Taranto. And she is create one of courageous jobs. And we talked about how in the Bismarck series about how the Hood's job is to go around advertising British power, showing British hard power and technical industrial might all over the world. That's Courageous, his job. And she goes around the world showing off how incredible carriers are and that, you know, planes landing and they do it, they do it for people to See planes landing on the carrier and it's all very sexy. At the time he's flying the Blackburn Dart which is a rather.

[James Holland]

Yeah, it looks like a Bulldog.

[Al Murray]

It's an ugly plane.

[James Holland]

It looks like a sort of squat and kind of stub nosed and not very attractive.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. He clashes with his boss and this is a. Esmond is a single minded man, sticks to his guns and. But during his time with the fleet, this time with the Fleet Air Arm, he develops a reputation for being a truly brilliant flyer and the best off and on man in the Royal Navy. So he's the best carrier landing guy of all. When his time with the fleet air on end, there's no job for him in the raf. He can't get a permanent job as a pilot.

[James Holland]

Is that because he's an Irish national?

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah. And he's not a Cranwell guy? You know, he's not. You know, this is the same time as they're trying to keep Barda in the RAF when he's got no legs.

[James Holland]

Right.

[Al Murray]

So he goes into the RAF Volunteer Reserve, a reserve at the end of 1933. But he has to find work as a pilot and in his last six months he gets time on every type he possibly can, particularly multiple engine types. So then has a job with Imperial and flies for its subsidiary Indian Transcontinental Airways.

[James Holland]

But he's a nationalist. He's an Irish nationalist.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, I know. Look, it's work.

[James Holland]

Mine's got to work, right?

[Al Murray]

Yeah. And he's a brilliantly skilled pilot, vastly experienced and when he comes back to the Fleet air Arm in 1939, he has 5550 hours in his logbook. I mean, wow.

[James Holland]

Wow. So can I suggest that the Royal Navy wrap him up in kid gloves and make sure that they use him and his vast experience to the maximum capability.

[Al Murray]

I think what they should do is build a, build a training school around him where he teaches people how to become the best off and on types the Royal Navy could possibly have. These warbirds of liberty boys that were your American pin ups. Here's an all Irish hero for you. He's a shot fella.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

There's a fantastic picture of him with the other Fleet Air Arm officers in their white socks, shorts, trousers, shirt combo that they wore.

[James Holland]

Yes. No, he's, he's an attractor. He's got an attractive face, a twinkly face, hasn't he? With, you know, he looks like a smiley, good humoured, genial fellow.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. In 1941 he's commanding 825 Squadron again on Victorious. And of course, May 24th, after the Hood goes down his nine swordfish in the disgusting weather in the North Atlantic, they go out to strike the Bismar, and unsuccessfully. But he's gazetted with a DSO in July 1941, and he picks that DSO up the day before the Channel dash

[James Holland]

when it's all smiles.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, he's come back from London that morning with his dso, with his ribbon. Right. They've been rerouted to Manston, as we said. They've been redeployed at Manston because Victorious has gone off. An 825 Squadron's being reformed and they've now moved to Manston. And of course, if there's German fighters in the. In the picture, this is a different kettle of fish, right? Anyway, at 1225 hours, they set off. There's meant to be two squadrons of Spitfires. The actual escort when they arrive is 10 Spitfires. The majority been misrouted. The weather works against them. It's a difficult business because the Swordfish fly so slowly that, you know, the Spitfires have to sort of do funny loops and fly with their flaps down. And let's go through these crews because just say their names. Yeah. Eugene Edsman's in H, followed by swordfish L W5907, piloted by Charles M. Pat Kingsmill, whose crew is Sub Lieutenant R. Matt Mc Samples, who's his obs, and leading airman DA Don Bunce, who's his telegraphist air gunner. Swordfish G is skippered by Sub Lieutenant Brian Rose with Edgar F. Lee, who will sp. See in a bit, and leading Airman Al Ginger Johnson. And the second subflight. And these are all. These are all new guys. Lt. J.C. thompson is in Swordfish F with his obs R.L. parkinson leading M and E. Topping is his tag. Behind him becomes Swordfish K with Sub Lieutenant CR Timber Wood. I mean, come on, Timberwood. Sub Lieutenant EH Fuller. Wright is his observer. Leading Airman Wheeler is his tag. And this last four swordfish to leave is M W5978, captained by Sub Lieutenant Peter Bligh, who had won his flight with a toss of a coin. Because there are seven pilots in naval. In 825 Naval Air Squadron and six Swordfish. So when the moment comes, as I say, they toss a coin and Sub Lieutenant Bligh calls and wins and Bennett stays behind.

[James Holland]

Damn it. You lucky blighter. You're going to go to your immediate

[Al Murray]

death, heads or tails.

[James Holland]

I mean, I would say that's losing, isn't it?

[Al Murray]

Surely you'd think, but, you know, for the honour. Esmond leads his formation at very low altitude through the heavy flak towards the German ships near Cap grisne at around 1320 hours. So it takes the best part of an hour to get there. Huge swirl of fighter planes.

[James Holland]

Of course there is.

[Al Murray]

Galland has prepared this cover for them. They buzz around them. Vast flak response. Fighter planes coming in with their undercarriage down, their flaps deployed in order to hit the Swordfish.

[James Holland]

That's amazing, isn't it?

[Al Murray]

Yep, because you come over a couple hundred knots like that, you know, and that's until you figure out how to do it. British Spitfires, they do what they can to draw the 109s and 190s off, but it's too much. 825 Naval Air Squadron is doomed.

[TV Show Promoter]

Right.

[Al Murray]

The lads who come from Horn Church never see the Swordfish. They've been sent to escort. So there's this aircraft. Aircraft.

[James Holland]

Never seen them at all.

[Al Murray]

Never see him. Esmond leads this first sub flight. Lee is the observer in the plane behind him, and he's our witness, basically flown by Sub Lieutenant Rose. They watch Esmond going in even as the rear gunner in his own plane, in Lee's plane, even as he is killed. Ginger Johnson has killed a fighter coming through.

[James Holland]

Okay, so they are killed by fighters.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, he's got blood all over him. So the various eyes on. And Lee's our primary witness and Kingsmill say that Esmond's aircraft, they're trying to maintain formation. His plane seems to be badly hit. Before descending to launch its torpedo. The left wing comes away and Esmond, they see Esmond hit by machine gun fire, killed by machine gun fire by a pair of 109s, which are flown by Leutnant Egon Meyer of Jagischwader 2 Richthofen and his wingman Feldwebel Willis Strachmann. The left wing comes off and his plane crashes into the sea. And what's interesting is a couple of decades later in accounts, people say they see him get his torpedo away.

[James Holland]

But that seems unlikely, doesn't it?

[Al Murray]

Yeah, exactly. The reports for the next couple of days don't confirm this, they say, but they basically say this is horrendous. Sky's full of fire. Swordfish are torn apart.

[James Holland]

Yep.

[Al Murray]

You know, and one of the things about the Swordfish, because of fabric, it can take the odd hit, but not this much. So then Rose and Lee are shot down. Lee manages to get the dinghy out, get his injured pilot into it, and the Gunner goes down with the shattered plane.

[James Holland]

So Pat Kingsmill, he's in Swordfish L, isn't he?

[Al Murray]

Yeah. And he says go on, Jim.

[James Holland]

We were still flying straight towards the enemy and a plane becoming more difficult to handle with every second. I never grasped then just how smashed up we were. We'd been riddled in dozens of places. There was a huge splash in the sea close by. They were throwing their big stuff at us now, laying 11 inch shells in our path, hoping to smash us down before we reach the firing distance. Now we must be almost there. I wrenched at the controls, brought the tattered Swordfish into firing position. Looming out of the mist was one of the target ships, the Prinz Eugen, which looked enormous somehow. I lined the plane up against her. Everything was so confused I cannot even remember pressing the torpedo release. But with the torpedo gone, we stood some chance of getting out in one piece. The controls were dreadfully sluggish but I brought the Swordfish around and yelled for samples to give me a course back. As I came round and away I had a fleeting glimpse of the second flight just above me heading for the welter of fire as I was trying to leave. Crikey. So then the second sub flight including yeah, including the pilot who'd won the toss to go, Sub lieutenant Bligh are also shot down and destroyed as they press in their attack. Thirteen crew are killed and of the six survivors only two are unhurt.

[Al Murray]

Liam Bunce, who'd been in Kingsmill's plane. Basically there's nothing's known of the second sub flight. No one saw it, no one survived from it. They're all gone. And Esmond is gazetted on 21 April 1942 with the Victoria Cross. But basically we'll tell the story of his Victoria Cross in our wash up for which will be up on the Patreon. But what you got to know is a Victoria Cross. What does that tell us, Jim?

[James Holland]

It's all going really badly wrong. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, you know.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. Arnhem, you know. And this is the Fleet RM Air Arm only have two Victoria Crosses from the war and this is one of them. Celiax or is it the captain Hoffman. There's some disagreement remarked it went into silly Ax's diary but no one's quite sure who may have said it. Those Swordfish did well to get their torpedoes away. The English are throwing their mothball navy at us now apparently that's the Fleet Air Arm attack gone wrong.

[James Holland]

Smug bastard.

[Al Murray]

What next for Operation Fuller or rather what is also going on at the same time, because everything is happening everywhere all at once. And join us for our next episode as the battle of the narrow seas continues. Subscribe to our Patreon, become a member, and you can enjoy the full juice of this disaster as it plays itself out.

[James Holland]

Well, I mean, I. Personally, I think we need a break because I need to just calm down a little bit. I'm. I'm feeling quite upset.

[Al Murray]

We'll see you soon. Thanks for listening.

[James Holland]

Cheerio.

[Al Murray]

Cheerio. Close your eyes. Exhale. Feel your body relax. And let go of whatever you're carrying today.

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[Al Murray]

And breathe.

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[Al Murray]

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[Al Murray]

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