Warbirds of Liberty: The Fantastic Fighting 4th - A Thousand Destroyed (Part 4)

Summary

WW2 Pod: We Have Ways of Making You Talk

Episode Title: Warbirds of Liberty: The Fantastic Fighting 4th – A Thousand Destroyed (Part 4)
Release Date: February 19, 2026
Hosts: Al Murray & James Holland

Episode Overview

In this rousing conclusion to their four-part “Warbirds of Liberty” mini-series, comedian Al Murray and historian James Holland explore the heroic final acts, daring missions, and extraordinary personalities of the USAAF’s 4th Fighter Group—the legendary “Fantastic Fighting Fourth.” The episode brims with dramatic storytelling, humor, and awe, tracing the unit’s exploits from D-Day through war’s end, chronicling record-breaking milestones and the individual fates of its aces. The hosts deftly weave analysis, historical detail, and cinematic speculation, ultimately reflecting on the group’s lasting legacy and the remarkable men who shaped WWII air combat.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. D-Day and the Fighter Pilot’s Experience

• Setting the Scene: June 5–6, 1944
  • The hosts evoke the tense anticipation among pilots on the eve of D-Day, describing Debden's “cool school” where bravado and nerves mix.
  • [03:19] Al Murray: “They know, they think today's the day, but they don't say anything, obviously. Everyone's too cool. This is a cool school, right?”
• Early Morning Sorties
  • The 4th takes off in darkness and poor weather, echoing cinematic imagery (“Star Wars episode”).
  • 3000+ Allied aircraft inundate the skies—a scale dwarfing the Luftwaffe’s available response.
• First Engagements
  • Kid Hofer leads a section that is ambushed by German fighters. Most are shot down, including Bernard “Buck” McGrath, who had just completed his tour but insisted on flying the invasion.
  • [07:12] James Holland: “They’re so gung-ho. They’re so into it. He goes, ‘I’ve got to go and do the invasion.’”

2. The Changing Role of Air Power

• Strategic Bombing Becomes Tactical
  • Air assets shifted to Eisenhower’s direct command to support the Normandy landings (SHAEF), reflecting the evolving, adaptive nature of air warfare.
  • [05:38] Al Murray: “8th Air Force is not in a strategic bombing role here, is it? Its role is … tactical.”
• The Disappointment of Diminishing Luftwaffe Resistance
  • Despite significant Allied effort, the Luftwaffe’s limited presence frustrates the aggressive pilots who “thought they were going to have much more of a fight.”
  • [09:29] James Holland: “There is a sense of disappointment … because they thought they were going to have much more of a fight from the Luftwaffe.”

3. Operation Frantic: Allied Bombers to the USSR

• The Daring Shuttle Mission
  • The 4th leads bombers in a “triangle” operation: England → Berlin → Ukraine → Italy. This involves landing at Soviet airfields, a logistical and diplomatic first.
  • [10:19] James Holland: “Allied aircraft are actually going to land at Soviet airfields … in Ukraine to refuel. And the mission is completely unprecedented.”
• Soviet Reception
  • Pilots receive a warm if odd welcome—flowers, vodka, feasting—and Blakeslee records a broadcast in Moscow.
• Losses and Incidents
  • Kid Hofer finagles onto the mission but gets lost; other pilots endure heavy combat and flak.

4. Hollywood Moments and Real Heroism

• Jim Goodson’s Survival Story
  • Shot down, captured by the Gestapo, facing execution—but evades death through “Yankee charm,” fluent German, sharing whiskey and cigars with his captor, and even rescuing a baby from Berlin rubble during an air raid. The hosts marvel repeatedly at how these true stories rival Hollywood fiction.
  • [13:00] Al Murray: “Oh, come on. I know, but I don’t believe it.”
  • [15:10] James Holland: “‘It was like being born again…’” (quoting Goodson)

5. Casualties, Rotations, and the "Churn" of War

• Tragic Losses of Key Figures
  • Many leading aces leave combat:
    • B. Beason is downed and taken POW, then later dies young of a brain tumor.
    • Don Gentile crashes during a press stunt and is sent home to sell bonds.
    • Kid Hofer is killed by flak over Yugoslavia at age 23.
• Rotation Policies & Reluctant Groundings
  • Blakeslee is forced off active flying, having completed a staggering 1,000 hours and 500 sorties—the most of any US fighter pilot.
  • [29:00] James Holland: “He has flown and will have flown more than any other American fighter pilot in the war.”

6. Equipment, Achievements & Final Victory

• Technological Shifts: Facing the Jets
  • Late-war encounters with German Me 163 “Comets” highlight growing Allied apprehension about jet fighters.
• Tallying the 4th’s Achievements
  • 1,016 enemy aircraft destroyed—highest of any 8th Air Force group.
  • First over German airspace, over Berlin, and to Russia; flew 400 combat missions.
  • Decorated pilots, many of whom continued to serve postwar in the USAF.
• The Sentiment of Farewell
  • Blakeslee’s final speech to the Debden men is simple yet moving:
    • [28:45] James Holland (quoting Blakeslee): “You all know how I feel about leaving Debton. Well, it’s been a home to me. I guess I better shut up now before I start blubbering.”

7. Reflecting on Legacy and Telling the Story

• Why Hollywood Can’t Improve the Truth
  • The hosts repeatedly stress that reality is stranger—and more moving—than fiction.
  • [08:04] Al Murray: “Why do they bother making stuff up? … This is actually raising that question about when anyone makes a Second World War film or series, why do they bother making it up?”
• Personal Cost and Sacrifice
  • The fate of the group’s leading pilots postwar is poignant: many die young or encounter tragedy.
  • James quotes Goodson reflecting at Godfrey’s deathbed:
    • [39:31] James Holland: “‘Life is for living, living to the full. If you’ve done that, death isn’t so sad. And by God, we’ve lived life to the full. … I’m back in the mess in Debton.’”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [04:45] Al Murray (on D-Day takeoff): “This is the end of the first Star Wars episode, isn’t it, where… all the TIE fighters take off together.”
• [09:29] James Holland (on D-Day aftermath): “There is a sense of disappointment … because they thought they were going to have much more of a fight from the Luftwaffe.”
• [13:47] James Holland (on Goodson teaching his SS captor smoke rings): “Goodson teaches him how to blow smoke rings.”
• [28:45] James Holland (Blakeslee’s farewell): “Well, it’s been a home to me. I guess I better shut up now before I start blubbering.”
• [39:31] James Holland (quoting Godfrey): "'Life is for living, living to the full. If you’ve done that, death isn’t so sad. And by God, we’ve lived life to the full... I’m back in the mess in Debton.'"
• [34:12] Al Murray (on Blakeslee’s tactics): “Tactics are getting up the enemy and shooting him down. It’s as simple as that. You’ve got to adapt.”

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Key Timestamps

• [03:19] – D-Day eve: Pilot briefings, nerves, and bravado at Debden.
• [07:37] – Kid Hofer’s squadron is ambushed—major losses, poignant Hollywood reflections.
• [10:01] – The audacious Operation Frantic “shuttle mission” to the USSR.
• [12:25] – Jim Goodson’s extraordinary capture, escape from execution, rescuing a baby in Berlin.
• [20:44] – Mustang over Budapest: outnumbered, the 4th holds off fierce Luftwaffe attack.
• [26:41] – Blakeslee is grounded after 500 sorties and 1,000 hours—his extraordinary legacy.
• [30:35] – Christmas 1944: 334 Squadron hits 300 kills.
• [34:45] – Group tallies and Blakeslee’s philosophy of air combat.
• [35:56] – Postwar careers and poignant destinies of key figures.
• [39:31] – Godfrey’s last words to Goodson; legacy and loss.
• [40:40+] – Series wrap-up, plans for future episodes, and final reflections.

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Tone & Style

Al and James combine reverence, humor, and critical reflection. They balance operational facts with pilot lore, all the while incredulous at how truth often outstrips Hollywood invention. Their storytelling is punchy, emotional, and passionate—inviting the listener to marvel at both the extraordinary deeds and the personalities behind them.

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Summary

This gripping episode closes the saga of the “Fantastic Fighting Fourth” with stories of valor, comradeship, heartbreak, and ultimate triumph. Through D-Day dogfights, pioneering missions behind enemy lines, cinematic moments of survival, and stoic goodbyes, the hosts animate the era—and question why anyone would need to embellish such true drama. Their detailed recounting and quotable dialogue offer not only a masterclass in WWII aviation but also a meditation on legacy, loss, and the cost of heroism.

Transcript

[Al Murray]

Thank you for listening to we have ways of making you talk. Sign up to our Patreon to receive bonus content, live streams and our weekly newsletter with money off books and museum visits as well. Plus early access to all live show tickets. That's patreon.com we haveways. It's tax season and at Lifelock, we know you're tired of numbers, but here's a big one you need to hear. Billions. That's the amount of money in refunds the IRS has flagged for possible identity fraud. Now here's another big number. 100 million. That's how many data points Lifelock monitors every second. If your identity is stolen, we'll fix it. Guaranteed. One last big number. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com podcast for the threats you can't control. Terms apply. This war is my chance. I don't want to go back after the war and pilot an airliner between New York and Cincinnati. I want to come out of it with more planes destroyed than anyone else. That's been my plan for some time. I am Don Gentile and I am speaking to a war correspondent, Ira Wolford, at Debton right now. That is what is happening. Sorry, we've been getting into character rather on this, on this series, and I've.

[James Holland]

Been enjoying it very much.

[Al Murray]

It's been. Well, yes, you've been. Jim's been getting maximum jollies out of this.

[James Holland]

Well, don't deny that you haven't enjoyed it, too.

[Al Murray]

I've been trying to adopt an ironic posture and sit back from some of it and failed.

[James Holland]

Yeah, it failed. Yeah, I could tell you're fucked in too. The charismatic lure of Dom Blakesley.

[Al Murray]

Welcome to. We have ways of making you talk with me. Al Murray and James Holland, of course. The Second World War podcast for all your Second World War needs. Warbirds of Liberty, episode four the 4th Fighter Group and we're war birds of liberty. I mean, we're not D mob happy because this is the last episode, but we are, we are, we are approaching that kind of mood the war has turned in general, I think it's fair to say by we're in the middle of 1944. We've seen the US 8th Air Force deliver a strategic victory.

[James Holland]

Yes.

[Al Murray]

Not of the kind that strategic bombings necessarily was conceived to do.

[James Holland]

No.

[Al Murray]

But a strategic effect, nevertheless.

[James Holland]

Let's not forget that air power is still comparatively new. And the point is, as time plays out, you need to be flexible enough to be able to adapt to those changes.

[Al Murray]

The bombermen were right in that bombing would be war winning, but not the way they imagined. No, that's a really interesting point that's thrown up by these events, but nevertheless, Doolittle's right. The other thing is, it fits the German mindset. The Germans are about doing battle, aren't they?

[James Holland]

So, yeah, yeah, very much.

[Al Murray]

You give them an opportunity. It's not like, say, the Vietnam War, where the Americans at Khe Sanh tried to bring the north, the nva, to battle at Khe Sanh. And the nva, don't bother.

[James Holland]

Just didn't turn up.

[Al Murray]

Don't come.

[James Holland]

No.

[Al Murray]

Don't show up. And so they don't get their climactic battle and they don't get the win thereafter. But it is part of the American mindset to do this. And the German mindset offers. Offers a response.

[James Holland]

Exactly. It's. It's Pavlovian. Their response.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we ended the. We ended the last episode with the EVA D day. There've been several flaps before it where people thought, today's the day. But the 5th of June, late in the afternoon, after Blakesley has been briefed, he walks briefly to the officer's mess at Debton, clutching a large sealed envelope under his arm, looking tense. They know, they think today's the day, but they don't. They don't say anything, obviously. Everyone's too cool. This is a cool school, right?

[James Holland]

Yeah, very much so.

[Al Murray]

This is a jocks, not wimps, American environment.

[James Holland]

Yeah, yeah.

[Al Murray]

Jocks, not nerds.

[James Holland]

It's no place for weak men.

[Al Murray]

It's no place for weak men. Jocks versus nerds. This is a Jocks Win edition. He briefs his men at midnight, and by this time, of course, the invasion's underway, as we know, and it's all been delayed today. That's the thing that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we know. But the airborne divisions are on their way.

[James Holland]

Yes.

[Al Murray]

Normandy. The Ox and Bucks have landed at Pegasus Bridge by this time. Yeah. And have seized the two bridges on the Ore River.

[James Holland]

Yeah. Up the ox and Bucks, 101st are coming down.

[Al Murray]

Yep, it's underway. And of course, the COP survey have been sat in their mini subs off the beaches with their beacons. Yep, Ready to go. They've sat through the storm on the 5th. The roller coasters haven't gone tick, tick, tick, tick to the top. And we're about to go into the first film. So at 3am, the pilots get in their plane.

[James Holland]

Hold on. First we've got to do his briefing.

[Al Murray]

Oh, yes. He briefs them at midnight. That's right. And at 3:00 clock in the morning, the pilots get in their planes. They're strapped in by their crew chiefs. The cloud is thick because the weather's. The weather's not brilliant. So there are no stars. And everyone takes off behind Blakesley and they're flying in formation over Debton in record time. This is the end of the first Star wars episode, isn't it, where they all take. All the TIE fighters take off together.

[James Holland]

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Al Murray]

This is exactly it. There's tons of air activity, though. Loads of other fighters. Fighter and bomber groups taking off at the same time. 3000 aircraft leaving east Anglia.

[James Holland]

Well, and the rest.

[Al Murray]

Which is more than the Luftwaffe.

[James Holland]

Yes, well, they've got 40,000 airplanes, haven't they? But they're only using a bit of them.

[Al Murray]

And the fourth almost runs into the Thunderbolts that are taking off from Duxford.

[James Holland]

I'd imagine how much Blakesey would be cursing if that happened.

[Al Murray]

Oh, yeah. 8th Air Force is not in a strategic bombing role here, is it? Its role is to.

[James Holland]

It's tactical.

[Al Murray]

It's tactical. In the run up to D Day, the strategic bombers have been handed over to Eisenhower for the middle of. Middle of April. Yeah. For the full. For the full use of Eisenhower rather than being. So they're under SHAE now, rather than kind of doing their own thing. Exactly. And this is a. This is a thing that has been conceded, but they've got no choice.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

Have they? No. Harris. Harris can argue and grumble and, and, and complain, but whatever he's got to.

[James Holland]

Do what he does, he always does what he's. Ultimately. He'll always do what he's ordered to do.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, exactly.

[James Holland]

Sorry. So, yeah, so they're, They're. Their job is to. Is to block off any. Any enemy reinforcements, particularly aircraft. That's what they're particularly thinking about. And the fourth Fighter Group is specifically instructed to sweep the Ruon area. The Allies are kind of anticipating there may be up to 2000 German aircraft protecting the Atlantic Wall, even though the closest being 500 miles away. You know, they might have got. You know, you can't take anything for chance to chance. You've gotta. You've got to be prepared for the worst.

[Al Murray]

Well, it's the invasion, the German invasion. Germans are going to want to repulse it. Right.

[James Holland]

Anyway, at 7am, Kid Hofer spots an enemy locomotive, strafes and starts shooting some of the first shots of the invasion. Hofer is leading the section of the squadron, accompanied by Winslow, Mike Sabanski, Mike.

[Al Murray]

Szabanski suddenly in Monsters Inc. And then.

[James Holland]

Bernard McGrathan, which isn't quite so good, and two others.

[Al Murray]

We need to change his name for the movie or give him a great nickname, Bernie. He's Buck. Buck. There we go. That was close.

[James Holland]

Yeah, with Sabansky. Anyway, McGrath had finished his tour and packed his bags to leave that very morning.

[Al Murray]

Really? Yeah.

[James Holland]

But they're so gung ho. They're so into it. He goes, ha. I've got to go and do the invasion.

[Al Murray]

In the film, he'd be shot down, right?

[James Holland]

Yeah, of course he would.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. But he. But he isn't.

[James Holland]

But he isn't. This is the one bit where we deviate from Hollywood.

[Al Murray]

One bit where Hollywood is not intervened in the story.

[James Holland]

The one bit Bernard McGrath makes it, but when he's called Buck McGrath, he won't. Anyway, suddenly the section is bounced by 15 German fighters and all of the four fighter. Fighter group pilots in the section, bar Hofer, are shot down and killed.

[Al Murray]

Yes. I mean. I mean. Oh, no. Oh, God. So his packed bags remain at Debton.

[James Holland]

Yeah. It is so Hollywood.

[Al Murray]

Is so Hollywood. Why do they bother making stuff up? This is always to be asked, Jim. This is actually raising that question about when anyone makes a Second World War film or series, why do they bother making it up? Yeah, why? Why? Why? Why?

[James Holland]

It's a question I've often asked myself. Why fabricate all that nonsense and fury when you could actually tell a proper tank story for real?

[Al Murray]

But where Eagles Dare? Why bother? Why bother? Why bother with 633 Squadron? Why? Why bother with. I know, it's weird, isn't it? Yeah. Why bother? Because there it is. Buck McGrattan doesn't make it. His bags are still. I mean, they're on his bed, aren't they? And then a new guy come. The new guy will come in and go, hey, whose bags are these? I thought they. I thought he'd gone. Yeah, yeah. He wanted one last go.

[James Holland]

Anyway, they do two more. They do do more sweeping missions that day.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

Both at 12:00 clock and noon and at 6:00pm and in total, they. Which is, you know, that's a big hit for the fourth. I mean, they're not used to losing those kind of numbers.

[Al Murray]

No.

[James Holland]

You know, and this is because they're doing, you know, a lot of ground stuff. Everyone's, you know, the Germans are alert. Lots of flak, you know, lots of amount. Blakesley and the group land back at Debban around midnight for them after their last one.

[Al Murray]

So.

[James Holland]

Well, the day, four hours.

[Al Murray]

Well, the days are long enough. There's enough.

[James Holland]

Six hours. Yeah, yeah.

[Al Murray]

But there's enough daylight. It's the point. It's, you know, mid summer essentially, isn't it? So there's enough daylight for. To fly all day, sorties all day.

[James Holland]

There is a sense of disappointment. It's not really because of the losses, it's because they thought they were going to have much more of a fight from the Luftwaffe.

[Al Murray]

Right.

[James Holland]

And they're not getting much. Obviously they get a bit of action on D day, but they don't get much, much afterwards. So.

[Al Murray]

Because the assumption is, isn't it, the Luftwaffe are saving something up.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

And then actually they haven't been. They spent. They can't, they can't do it anymore. But that just shows the aggressive spirit of these guys.

[James Holland]

They're going, yeah, doesn't it?

[Al Murray]

You know, the. We're off the fight, so they must be surely.

[Guest Speaker / Narrator]

Right, yeah.

[James Holland]

Yes. And then they do that. Then they do get involved in this incredible mission.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

Which is this huge long range mission called, called Operation Frantic. Obviously it's the fourth are going to be leading it. Yeah. And Blakesley's going to be leading it. Blakes, he's still there after all this time. You know, remember he came over in 1941.

[Al Murray]

At any point he could go, I'm. Yeah, that'll do me.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

I've had enough time in the cockpit. Yeah.

[James Holland]

You know, he came over flying Spitfires with the rf doing fighter sweeps over the Channel. Yeah. And now it's this operation factor is objectives are, you know, this is, this is a strategic bombing mission. It's like on a, on a triangle, various parts of Nazi occupied Europe and it's like a shuttle bombing mission. So allied aircraft are actually going to land at Soviet airfields. Yes. In Ukraine to refuel. And the mission is completely unprecedented. No fighter group is ever escorted bombers. So they're going to do that, then they're going down, go down to Italy and then they're going to come back.

[Al Murray]

I mean, the Soviets always offer such a warm welcome to Western allies when the chances come, don't they? I mean, you think of the, the Arctic convoy and. Well, the Hurricane, the first Hurricanes going to Russia right after Barbarossa and the reception they got. This is an interesting place to be going, right?

[James Holland]

Yeah, definitely. But, but, but it's not good news for Kid Hofer because.

[Al Murray]

No, not the kid, no.

[James Holland]

He refuses to have mandatory vaccinations. He's been talking to RFK Jr. And takes a dim view of these. So Blakesy bans him, right. And bans him from the bar for two weeks and goes, I've had enough of your lip, you know, and you're in your idiosyncratic kind of lone wolf ways. The day before the Russian mission begins, 20th of June, Jim Goodson leads a mission over New Brandenburg, which is in northeast Germany, and he gets caught up in intense flak, tries to weave his way out of it, but he feels his plane shudder and starts to smell explosive. His plane has been hit. No. And he feels flack hit his right knee, too. He goes, I knew I was hit, but it was the plane I fell for. She was like a stricken war horse. Anyway, the plane starts to storm. This is bad news. And all he can do is ease it down to the ground. And he clambers out of the plane, right knee bleeding and very badly injured. And then his squadron shoot up his plane from above to prevent the Germans from getting to it. And he wanders around in a forest for a few days before eventually being captured by the Gestapo. And this is a most amazing story. This is Jim Goodson, as in guy was on there on day one of the war and all the rest of it. Here he is in the summer of 1944.

[Al Murray]

We're about to have some improbable thing that ought to be a movie that no one needed to make up.

[James Holland]

You got it? I mean, it is absolutely extraordinary. So he's. So he is thrown into solitary confinement and told he's going to be executed the next morning.

[Al Murray]

Yep.

[James Holland]

Tomorrow. You've heard this shot.

[Al Murray]

This is your elevator pitch, right?

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

I don't know. I'm someone from mgm.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

Or Warner Brothers.

[James Holland]

Okay.

[Al Murray]

And you're pitching me.

[James Holland]

That's the thing. Okay, so he's going to be executed, right. And it's right down to the wire. He's taken out and he thinks he's going to be shot, but at the last minute.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, at the last minute, he gets out of it.

[James Holland]

Wiggles out of it.

[Al Murray]

Oh, my God.

[James Holland]

Because you know what? He uses Yankee charm.

[Al Murray]

Oh. Oh, come on. I know, but I don't believe it.

[James Holland]

No, it's true.

[Al Murray]

Okay, who we sing here? Christopher Bale, Brad Pitt. He's going to be young, he's going to be younger.

[James Holland]

He's got to be a little bit younger.

[Al Murray]

Okay, give me Paul Mescal. We'll do it.

[James Holland]

Paul Mescal.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

So the following day, he's brought into an SS commander's office ahead of his execution.

[Al Murray]

Christopher Waltz.

[Guest Speaker / Narrator]

Yeah, okay.

[James Holland]

Christoph Waltz.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[James Holland]

Yes.

[Guest Speaker / Narrator]

Anyway.

[James Holland]

But he and the commander, he and the SS officer end up having a long debate about the nature of war and the caliber of the German military and what the Allies are fighting for. And just keep him talking.

[Al Murray]

Did you drink a pint of milk and everything?

[James Holland]

Because guess what? Goodson can speak German, right? And the commander warns to him and offers him whiskey and a Cuban cigar. And they smoke and drink together and they tell tales, and Goodson teaches him how to blow smoke rings.

[Al Murray]

So I, I, I take this.

[James Holland]

So hold on, I, I, I inhale. And then, and then, yeah, what you gotta do is gonna get your tongue in the middle. It's gonna hollow out your cheeks.

[Al Murray]

You see, we have a great deal in common, despite this war. These cliches, they're cliches because they're true. I mean, this is, this is completely ridiculous.

[James Holland]

Anyway, the, the SS guy is completely delighted to be playing smoke rings with Jim Goodson. And Goodson tries to convince them that he's the leading ace, he's too valuable to be executed, that the commander is going to be making a big mistake and just send him to the Luftwaffe to be interrogated instead. Because the Luftwaffe are going to want this kind of information that a leading ace can tell him. And the commander stands up, goes the phone, yells out an order, then hangs up. A phone rings again, and he proposes the Luftwaffe interrogate Goodson instead of executing him, just like he suggests. And then he hangs up, fishes his drink and says as he leaves the room, well, it's been a long day and night, so if you will excuse me, the Luftwaffe will pick you up in about an hour. I mean, guten tag. So Goodson's elated. He's negotiated his life back. And do you know what he says? He writes, it was like being born again. Everything seemed new and wonderful, and I saw it all in a new clear light, as in a dream. I walked over and looked at the trees and fields. They would have been ordinary now. They were fabulous. Soaring music. Lone trumpet.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. Solitary bugle. This is preposterous, James.

[James Holland]

It's just brilliant, isn't it? It's just amazing. You've got to read this book, though. It's great.

[Al Murray]

So Luftwaffe Leutnant and guard pick him up. The next morning, they travel on the train to Frankfurt, changing at Berlin. Hey, is this Berlin boiling? Yeah, exactly. He's handcuffed with lightning. Goodson spends the train journey thinking about how he can escape. Of course he does. Of course he does. Berlin for the train change. They're caught in an air raid.

[James Holland]

Yep.

[Al Murray]

Hey, that's my boys up there right now. I reckon that. Yeah, here they come.

[James Holland]

Hey, I reckon that's a good old 99.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, exactly. And they run to a bomb shelter. The shouts. The all clear is sounding. People begin to leave once it's over. But Goodson knows. He knows again.

[James Holland]

Again.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, exactly. Reading the Hollywood script, he knows the routine of the bombers. They're going to drop again. So he shouts to everyone on the shoulder, no, it's not over yet. More coming.

[James Holland]

There's a second wave, but in Germany, because.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Nine, nine. Dude, German with an American accent. Nine, nine, nine.

[James Holland]

God damn it, Nick. Fin. Yeah, gotten him old. Yeah, exactly.

[Al Murray]

Anyway, the raid ends.

[James Holland]

Yes.

[Al Murray]

He and the luff officers help rescue people from under rubble. They let him out of his handcuffs to be able to do this. O. I can see where this is going.

[James Holland]

Y.

[Al Murray]

Here's a. I mean, right, okay, okay. It's true. Of course it is. But. But. But we're gonna have to get a writer's room on this because. Because no one will believe this. He hears a baby crying.

[James Holland]

Of course he does.

[Al Murray]

And he goes into the rubble alone to discover a mother who he resuscitates and her baby daughter. The mother tells Goodson she's dying, but asks him to promise her to take care of her baby, who she hands to him. He rescues the baby, doesn't want to give her away to the Red Cross who are gathered near. They wrestle the baby off him and without his resentment because he's an American, he's handcuffed again back to the Luftwaffe officers, and they finished the journey to the interrogation center in Frankfurt by train. I mean, look, people say, why are you interested in the second World War, Jim?

[James Holland]

Well, human drama.

[Al Murray]

Human drama.

[James Holland]

Because. Because it's like a massive Hollywood script.

[Al Murray]

Well, but it's also like. We've talked about grand strategy in this series. We've talked about grand objectives. So the, you know, the chaps on maps, the arrows, the productions, the numbers, factories, and then here's a guy in the rubble who's been released from his handcuffs by the lightning, is supposed to be looking. Rescuing a baby.

[James Holland]

I know.

[Al Murray]

And it's that baby. That baby. So that's 80, 81 years ago. Maybe she's still alive. She's someone's Omar in. In Brandenburg somewhere. Why are you not interested in this? Because you're a fool. Say that when you. When you start on, you're in the pub next and you start telling this story and people start to glaze over again. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[James Holland]

No more you the fool anyway.

[Al Murray]

And he spends the rest of the war as a prison.

[James Holland]

Yeah. Back at Debton, 21 June, Blakesley briefs the pilots on the Russian shuttle mission.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

And their destination is 1600 miles away. So no Allied aircraft has ever flown that far before.

[Al Murray]

So they're gonna fly straight over.

[James Holland]

And he announces. Now, look, before we all get excited about it, I'll say the whole trip is about seven and a half hours. We've done that alone before. We'll be throttled back. So. Christ, we could stay up for eight hours. There'll be one bombers acting as diversion over Berlin to our 104 bombers. So diversion bombers would occupy the Germans over Berlin while the 104 bombers go and target an oil refinery just south of Berlin before shuttling then on to Russia. So Blakestie also clarifies there are no replacements. So if you crack up your plane, that means you probably stay in Russia for the rest of the war. So BlueTree's equipped with 16 maps to help him find secret Russian, secret Russian destination and a timetable strapped to his leg. Anyway, over Poland, there's around ten 109s come out to attack the bombers. But the fourth only loses one and hits five.

[Al Murray]

Right.

[James Holland]

And 66 of the 68 planes land successfully in Russia. One is shot down and the other is flown by Kid Hofer. He managed to get on the mission, get a plane on the mission anyway, and a characteristically flown off course by himself. So he's safe in Keef.

[Al Murray]

Right. Wow.

[James Holland]

Blake sees met on the ground by Russians who rush to give him flowers. Then he travels to Moscow to broadcast a message to Americans back home. Everyone else is welcomed by the Russians to a big dinner that evening. Of course, there was lots of vodka again. You can see the film, can't you? And more flowers given in praise and admiration. And at this point, you've got lots of jolly Russians, haven't you? Toasting and chinking. And the Americans, sort of.

[Al Murray]

That's right.

[James Holland]

Is this for real?

[Al Murray]

Yeah. These guys for real?

[James Holland]

Yeah. Uncle Joe. Wow. What the heck.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. And then the plan is then to fly to Italy, rendezvous with the 15th Air Force.

[James Holland]

Yes.

[Al Murray]

Bombed a pest, before heading back to debton.

[James Holland]

Easy.

[Al Murray]

8Th Airports have overflown before, so they've gone over to Tunisia, didn't they, earlier in the war? So this isn't. This isn't completely unprecedented, but with fighters it is, yes. I mean, this also demonstrates Allied muscle. Right? Look at what they're Capable of.

[James Holland]

Yes.

[Al Murray]

Look at what they can plan, what they can execute.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

How deep their resources are. And even. Even though, you know, things are weird with the Soviets, they're not. Not. It's not. They're not the most collaborative partners. They're still able to pull this off. It's extraordinary.

[James Holland]

Yeah. Kid Hofer, who'd been at Kyiv, he takes off with. With two other fourth pilots who've been with him and flies to Italy to rejoin the group. So that's okay. He's back on. Back on track. So 2nd of July, they're over Budapest as planned. So Mustang flying over Budapest, I mean, it's absolutely nuts.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

But bombers are confronted by 50-60 109s and there's only 20 Mustangs from the fourth are there to protect them. So. So Blakesy calls for backup, but to no avail. And the 109s are part of JG52. Oh, wow. Yellow Zay's bastards.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[James Holland]

One of the fiercest Luftwaffe fighter groups. Of course. Huge dogfights ensue.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

But the fourth managed to hold their own despite being massively outnumbered. Blakesley downs one. And the fourth records seven hits and only one loss.

[Al Murray]

But they go back to Italy and Hofo's missing.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

No one's worried at first because that's his style is to turn up last late, wrong airfield. Six gallons of fuel left. But after a few hours, he's still no trace. They learn that he was shot down by flak over Yugoslavia. So what, was he brassing something up? He must have been. And was killed. Yeah.

[James Holland]

Yep. So that's the end of him.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. Only 23. He's the fourth highest ranked ace in the. In the fourth fighter group by the end of the war. The fourth highest number of hits. The first flight officer in the European theater of operations qualifies an ace. And Jim Goodson says of him he was the happiest of all the. Those happy warriors. I mean, this is an amazing story anyway. But the fact these people are cut from this extraordinary cloth doesn't half help in the telling. You know? You know what I mean?

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

We'll take a quick break. Right now. Get up to 20% off. Select online storage solutions put heavy duty HDX totes to good use, protecting what's important to you. The solid impact resistant design prevents cracking. And the clear base and sides make items easy to find even when the totes are stacked. Find select online shelving and. And tote storage up to 20% off at the Home Depot to Organize every room in your home from your garage to your attic. Visit homedepot.com how doers get more done. Close your eyes, exhale, Feel your body relax and let go of whatever you're carrying. Today, while I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class, I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh my gosh, they're so fast. And breathe. Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order.

[James Holland]

Oh, sorry.

[Al Murray]

Namaste. Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-contacts. We heard you.

[James Holland]

Nine years of bring back the snack wrap and you've won. But maybe you should have asked for more. Say hello to the hot honey snack wrap. Now you've really won. Go to McDonald's and get it while you can.

[Al Murray]

Welcome back to we have ways and make you talk with me, Omari and James Holland. It's the last part of our four part series of Warbirds of Liberty. Fantastic Fighting forth The Fantastic Fighting 4th, which contains 28 Hollywood movies. Like more miniseries than you could you could possibly ever out of the air. No need for HBO to make another programming of his spaceship.

[James Holland]

John Orloff read all this.

[Al Murray]

Well, he probably has.

[James Holland]

Hofer is not the only of these. As we mentioned before the break, you know, he's not the only one to leave the fray by August 1944. So April 1944, B Beason has been brought down by grandfather while flying low near Brandenburg and he's taken prisoner. And after his January encounter with the Focke Wulf near Paris, Gentile is one of the most celebrated aces of the 8th and by April, one of the ETO's leading aces. But then that same month, he crashes his Mustang while doing some stunts over Debton. For the press reporters, it's all a bit embarrassing. Blakesley grounds him immediately and he's posted back home to sell war bonds. Right, so that's him gone.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah. Which right at the start of series we were saying Blakesley resists any attempt to get him to do that. This is best for Gentile.

[James Holland]

Yeah, but John Godfrey is soulmate is great. Gentile's great mate. He's gone on a month's leave of Gentile back to the U.S. so in April, both of them are out of the picture and in America they're treated like complete celebrities because people just love fighter pilots. Yeah, and they're good looking and they've got square jaws and you know, Godfrey's got his little cool sideburn, some stuff, and they love the fact that they're a team and the partnership and all the rest of it. Even Churchill knows about them. He's donned them Demon. And even, like the Greek heroes, it's slightly over. You know, they slightly overcooked the whole kind of wingman thing.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

Because he hasn't really been a wingman since the beginning of the year. But anyway, that's not the point.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

Anyway, Godfrey gets back flying into Debton by the summer. On the 24th of August, he's strafing a field north of Nordhausen, then gets shot down, not by a German, but accidentally by his wingman, Melvin Dickey.

[Al Murray]

You what?

[James Holland]

Yeah. So the. The plane stalls about 30 foot above the ground and dives into a meadow, but Godfrey knocks his head badly with the impact and is knocked out. And he eventually clambers out and reaches a wood close by before blacking out again. And he keeps himself alive in the woods for a few days, checks his watch regularly to imagine what's happening in Deb. And he thinks, you know, they're in the bar now, everyone's buying beer because it's the end of the month, they're walking down to the Aero Club to the cinema. But he's. Ultimately, he's captured by the Germans and taken as a POW to Stalag Luft 3.

[Al Murray]

He's lucky that when he was knocked down, his aircraft, it didn't catch fire and kill him. You know, I mean, incredible good fortune there.

[James Holland]

And then the biggest blow of all. September 1944. Blakesley is finally grounded. Can't do anything more about it. No, keep me flying, sir. But there's none of it. And he heads back to the US against his will. And when Eisenhower wards Blakesley, the Distinguished Service Service Cross General Kepner had remarked, darn lives in constant dread that some so and so is going to stop him from flying, but ultimately is, you know, it seemed that he's just too valuable. And so he's. He's relieved of his position as commander of the fourth. And by this point, he's flown a thousand hours.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

And 500 missions.

[Al Murray]

For all his reluctance to go. To stop. To stop flying, this is a man with such enormous experience and know how. And these fighter sorties are still a crapshoot. Luck is such a big part of. No matter how expensive you are, luck is such a big part of whether you come back.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

Isn't it? That you really. You can't be risking someone of this Experience and know how and expertise, you just can't. So ultimately you've got. You've got to sympathize with the Air Force for making this decision. He doesn't want to go home because he knows they're winning as well, doesn't he?

[James Holland]

He knows they're winning, but he also knows there's some new challenges and excite appointments around the corner. Not least the advent of jets. German jets and Comets.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the air for Royal Air Force and the US Army Air Force are pretty nervous about the jets because they know they're really quick. How on earth do you deal. Deal with that? Because speed has been the name of the game since the war began and if the Germans are able to accumulate enough jets to attack with, then that might be an extremely tricky thing to deal with.

[James Holland]

Yeah. And actually. But the British obviously been. Have been developing jets. They've got the Meteors.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. Which they've been using against V2s, which they have been. Yeah, V1s. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[James Holland]

And so some of the four are sent over to go and have a. Have a go in them.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

And Blakely has to watch from his office in Debden and he's like sort of, you know, clenching his fist and sort of, you know, gritted teeth and has to turn away with regret. Anyway, we still find, you know, he knows, he knows he's is. His time is coming to an end, but he still flies a few sorties and sort of some sentimental goodbye missions, combat missions. It's just amazing, isn't it?

[Al Murray]

He flies along alongside Major John McFarlane, who's come to England and joined the RAF at the same time as him.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

They fly to Biggin Hill where they were. Where they were both stationed at the start of their war.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

They have some tea, catch up with some old RAF pals from the old days who happened to be there because obviously everyone's moved on. Yeah, it's the churn. The churn in all these squadrons is enormous. On his final night to his colleagues in the Debton Bar, he says, you.

[James Holland]

All know how I feel about leaving Debton. Well, it's been a home to me. I guess I better shut up now before I start blubbering.

[Al Murray]

And that's the most emotion you'll ever get from him. You'll ever get, like the possibility as I might start blubbering.

[James Holland]

He's flown 500 operational sorties, accumulated over a thousand combat ads. I mean, it's worth stressing that and, and you know, because that means he has flown and will have flown more than any other American fighter pilot in the war.

[Al Murray]

That is absolutely Mount Olympus, isn't it?

[James Holland]

That is Mount Olympus. You know, and the reason why pilots are rotated out is because of the physical and mental strain of combat flying. And you know, in the raf, it's kind of after six months or three months of Malta or whatever. I mean, you think what Dennis Barnum was like a couple of months over. Yeah, over Malta, you know, and there's very good practical reasons for this because most people can't hack it. Yeah. So. So for him to have just continually flown in the front line from the day he arrives in spring of 1941.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

To September 1944, that's three solid years.

[Al Murray]

It's. It is truly incredible. It's interesting in a way he got away with it because by rights he should have been.

[James Holland]

But it's never the same again. I mean, you know, you know, they get through a, a number of commanders once Blakesley's gone on.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

There's not that sort of continuity. November, Louis Norley and Fred glover Shoot down two me 163 comets. Yes.

[Al Murray]

Which is the aforementioned propellant driven. Yes, basically.

[James Holland]

And it's the only four, it's the only jets of fourth ever get. Christmas Day 1944, 334 Squadron becomes the first squadron in the entire ETO to destroy 300 aircraft. So 334, of course, was originally 71 Squadron.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

Although during the clashes with the Focke Wuls that day, one pilot crashes and is taken prisoner while another is killed after flak takes down his Mustang. So, you know, there is churn, you know, don't get me wrong.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Holland]

You know, that they are, they are losing numbers and then they finally get a more settled commander on the 21st of February 1945. This is Everett Stewart. He's a veteran fighter pilot, had been at Pearl harbor when it's bombed by the Japanese, served in the Pacific. Interestingly, comes to England as CEO of A Squadron in the 352nd Fighter Group Group, and then moves to the 355th as Deputy CEO. And he sets very high standards, immediately wants the 4th to regain momentum, to hit a thousand destroyed aircraft before the 56th Fighter Group. Do I run a happy ship? And I mean for the fourth Group to get back where it belongs. It's been hard for the fourth to maintain its prestigious identity when so many of the, of the key guys have gone. Of course.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. And so by, by March, Germany is growing weaker and it's war Machine is coming undone, paralyzed the Reich. The Reichsbahn's being struck, which is making industry and reinforcement really, really difficult. And the fourth are still notching up hits. Way many years ago, we, we looked at Pierre Klosterman's book about flying in. In tempests at the end of the war section of his book about flying tempests at the end of the war. Although they have air supremacy, it's still really dangerous. There are still Focke Wuls that can shoot you down. So they're still accumulating hits. The group escorts bombers from the 15th Air Force to an oil refinery target. And then they fly north to try and find German fighters to shoot down.

[James Holland]

Go on, I want some more.

[Al Murray]

And there's lots of Focke Wulfs spotting an aerodrome between Berlin and the Oder river, which is where the Russian battle lines are. Yeah, because this is Germany. Germany is a shrinking, diminishing target at this point. In the ensuing action, the Americans shoot down 10 of the 15 German fighters they run into, which is a great show for the group. And another big demonstration, the Mustang's endurance because they, I mean, they're just tooling around looking for people to fight. It's incredible. It's not just they can get deep into Germany. They can run a long battle, long confrontations, and then fly back to England. And Goering says Mustangs make a playground of Bavaria.

[James Holland]

Well, they do it away.

[Al Murray]

It's enough to put a man off his opium. Yeah.

[James Holland]

So the fourth last big mission of the war is protecting Allied troops about to cross over the Rhine into Germany. So German defeat is looking imminent. And Churchill saying, you know, one good more. Oh no, you're church.

[Al Murray]

One more gulch evil together and it will be over.

[James Holland]

And the group is very aware. They don't want to be over too quickly because they want to get past a thousand.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

So war's over. God damn.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

But anyway, they get there. It's a longer journey.

[Al Murray]

Oh, thank God for that.

[James Holland]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. On a mission over Czechoslovakia. Can you believe it? 16 April, they get their thousand thousandth destroyed. And you know, the leading aces. I mean, it's interesting, isn't it? So, so, John Godfrey, 18 in the air, 18 on the ground. Total 36 done genteel, 23 in the air, 7 on the ground, 30. Jim Goodson, 15 in the air, 15 on the ground. The Kid Hofer, 16 in the air, 11 and a half on. On the ground. The half is when you have a shared kill. B. Beason, 18 in the air and seven on the ground. So that's 25. And Don Blakesley 15 in the air, two on the ground, 17. He always says, I can't hit a Barn door at 20 yards. He says, incredible point. And then there's an amazing thing with Dom Blakesy when they, they say, you know, he says, everyone's got to ask me about tactics. He says, I'll tell you what tactics are. Tactics are getting up the enemy and shooting him down. It's as simple as that. You've got to adapt. He said, there's no set tactics. There are, there are, you know, in his point. Well, it's. His point is a valid one. You've got to be flexible.

[Al Murray]

Well, what he's saying is, I know how to do this.

[James Holland]

You one day it might be do this, on another day it might be do that. There are principles you've got to adhere to. Look around, keep your eyes peeled, all that kind of stuff.

[Al Murray]

But that's, but that's like the, you know, that's, that's not the fails couture, is it? You know, the point is, is he knows what he's doing. So you can, you can task him with something. Jim. Yeah. If you want or order him to do something and he know and he's got everything in his quiver to be able to deal with it.

[James Holland]

Yes.

[Al Murray]

That's the lesson of experience. And then.

[James Holland]

Yes, good.

[Al Murray]

The good command ability to be able to teach other people all of those things. And so they just know what to do.

[James Holland]

They just know what to do.

[Al Murray]

So you don't have to tell them what to do.

[James Holland]

No.

[Al Murray]

Which can look like sometimes nothing in the orders.

[James Holland]

Right. Train them, train them to a high level and they just do what they do. Should we run through the enormous achievements of the 450? Yeah, come on. In World War II, so they've destroyed 10, 16 enemy aircraft by the war's end. Official. Yeah. This is not boasted. This is not sanctioned and agreed by everyone. The authorities. So it's 550 in the air and 466 on the ground. And that is the highest figure of any fighter group in the 8th Air Force.

[Al Murray]

And they've. Over their history, they've flown 400 combat missions in Spit. Spitfires, P47 Thunderbolts and P51 Mustangs.

[James Holland]

Yes. Or if you're, if you're Don Blake. So you've done 500 including your time.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah, I know. Crazy.

[James Holland]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, the longest serving fighter group in the entire eto, European Theater operations. They're the first fighter group to fly Over German airspace.

[Al Murray]

Yep.

[James Holland]

They're the first fighter group to escort bombers over Berlin. And they're the first fighter group to escort bombers on a shuttle bombings to Russia. And after the Second World War has ended, the fourth is deactivated in New Jersey on the November 1945, but then reactivated in Michigan the following September. And it is still going to this day, Right?

[Al Murray]

Yep.

[James Holland]

I shared a platform in Washington last November with the current commander of the fourth.

[Al Murray]

Really?

[James Holland]

Yeah. Who's a lady and very impressive person. Choose to.

[Al Murray]

Fantastic. And they start flying jets. So the P80 Shooting Star 1947. The Air Force achieves its. The aim that its brass always had, which is to separate itself from the army and become its own arm. And the. It ceases being the U.S. army Air Force and becomes the U.S. air Force.

[James Holland]

Yep. And it's. And it's maintained. And the 4th Fighter Wing as it now is, it's kept the same motto, which is fourth, but first. Love it. Anyway, but what we should do is we should say what happened to some of these characters that we've been talking about.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. But they've since served in the Korean War, the Vietnam War, Gulf War, basically anything that's going on. So now they're stationed at Seymour Johnson Air Force Base in North Carolina.

[James Holland]

And they definitely are in North Carolina, that's for sure. Anyway, so what happens to Don Blakeslee? Well, he stays in the Air Force after the war. Retires in 1965 as a full colonel for his wartime service, he wins two Distinguished Service Crosses, eight Distinguished Flying Crosses, two Silver Stars, eight Air Medals, British dfc, French Croix de Guerre with Palm Leaf. He also served in Korea, winning another DFC and four medals. Eventually settles down in Florida and dies in 2008, age 90. Was an absolute doyen of warbird air shows and stuff. He used to turn up.

[Al Murray]

So what we're doing now, Jim, actually is the bit at the end of film with the crawler where they. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. After the war, B. Beason made it back to Debton. B. Beason made it back to Debton at the end of the war and was posted back to the us Tried to get to the Pacific, but was posted to Florida instead. And he met his future wife there. He got married in January 1946, but is soon diagnosed with a brain tumor. Died on 40 in February 1947, aged only 20.

[James Holland]

Yeah, I know. I'm afraid it's a tragic story and there's more tragedy as well because Don Gentile, post war, stays in the Air Force as a tactical and gunnery instructor, structure. But he is killed when he crashes his T33 Shooting Star trainer in late January 1951, aged only 30. God did.

[Al Murray]

The crawler with the bugle is.

[James Holland]

I know, I know, I know. Goodson does survive. He's. He, he survives. He ends up living in, in England, actually. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Because he marries an English girl, has a very successful business career, eventually retires back to the U.S. but he suffers. He has Alzheimer's, so he struggles with Alzheimer's. He dies in 2014, age 93.

[Al Murray]

And John Godfrey.

[James Holland]

This is awful. Such a sad story. So he moves back to Rhode island, marries into a successful lace manufacturing family and takes up roles in the family business. And he's, he's, he's elected as a Republican Rhode island state senator in 1952 and serves until 1954. He's still, you know, only in his 30s, but then he's diagnosed with multiple sclerosis in 1956 and he dies two years later in 1958, aged only 36. And this is awful. This really, absolutely gets me. But after Godfrey's diagnosed with ms, he goes to Germany for treatment and him and Jim Goodson have lost touch. But when Goodson hears he's ill, he visits him in the German clinic and it'd be the last time they ever see each other. And he recalls how Godfrey reminisced during their conversation. And Godfrey says to Jim Goodson, he goes, I've done a lot of thinking while I've been lying in bed waiting. And I think I've learned a lot about life and death. I think I know what life is for. Life is for living, living to the full. If you've done that, death isn't so sad. And by God, we've lived life to the full. You know what I'm thinking of now? Not the successes and the ballyhoo and the glory. I'm back in the mess in Debton.

[Al Murray]

Dear God.

[James Holland]

Here, there's your Hollywood end.

[Al Murray]

I mean, what do you people want?

[James Holland]

You know, right. Can you hear the bugle?

[Al Murray]

Of course. It's been played for the last quarter of an hour.

[James Holland]

I mean, honestly, I mean, isn't that devastating? You know, so, so, so Beeson, genteel Godfrey.

[Al Murray]

It just. You can survive scores of fighter sorties unending against the Luftwaffe. It's this American culture producing these people and these machines and the way of thinking and the, the whole thing that has come together in this story. And I think, obviously if you are going to base a film on any of this, we're Executive producers on this. Aren't we just screenwriters? You can't write it because it's real. Why make it up? Anyway, thanks everyone for listening. We hope you've enjoyed this series of Warbirds of Liberty. The Fighting Forth.

[James Holland]

The Fantastic Fighting Fourth.

[Al Murray]

The Fantastic Fighting Fourth.

[James Holland]

Fourth, but always first, as you've gathered. I'm in awe of these people. I. I just think they were amazing. I'm in awe of Blakesley, I'm in awe of Godfrey and Gentile and Jim Goodson and do go out and get, get Tumor in the Clouds. It's a brilliant book.

[Al Murray]

Well, and if you've enjoyed this sort of close up look on American personalities and they're a part of the war, then our next thing I think is going to be the Channel Dash. The. As our post script. The Channel Dash is our post script to the sinking in the Bismarck. The fate of the Kriegsmarina surface raiding fleet fleeting being at breast, which many regard as a terrible up for the British. But we're going to do our. We're going to do our best to arm.

[James Holland]

Yeah, we're going to write that one.

[Al Murray]

We're going to arm wrestle. Yep. We're going to be looking at Audie Murphy's service.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

During the Second World War. She's quite historian. What a personality. There'll be some war waffle along the way. Then we're going to. We're going to look into Japan's road to war because we, we are aware that on this podcast that is a thing we have not really looked at at all. We have looked at the fighting, the Pacific, we've looked at specific episodes. We've looked at the very end of the war.

[James Holland]

We had a very brief conversation about four years ago. Harry Potter.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

About. We're gonna go. We're gonna go into a slightly deeper dive. Yeah. But that was just very much sort of pricking the surface, wasn't it?

[Al Murray]

Then we're going to look at the visionaries, the.

[James Holland]

Yes.

[Al Murray]

The thinking in high places around what the. What the war became from the American.

[James Holland]

Perspective and what the post war world in certainly in the west and Western democracies was going to look like.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

And how, how they shaped it.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. And much, much more so. Thanks. Barbarossa. Barbarossa. Operation Biting, the Bruneval raid. But remember when you're in an air raid in Berlin and someone does your handcuffs and what you have to do is find a baby in the rubble.

[James Holland]

Oh my goodness.

[Al Murray]

Thanks for listening. We'll see you again very soon. Cheerio.

[James Holland]

Cheerio. Troy, the Odyssey, the Iliad. All of these great ancient epics depict a monumental collapse that destroyed the interconnected.

[Al Murray]

Empires of 3,000 years ago.

[James Holland]

And to understand the Bronze Age apocalypse that homer wrote about 400 years after.

[Al Murray]

It happened, subscribe to Empire World History, a fellow Goal hanger podcast where we.

[James Holland]

Are deep diving into the biggest imperial.

[Al Murray]

Collapse in ancient history.

[James Holland]

To get a flavor of the series, here is a clip from our episode with none other than Stephen Fry.

[Guest Speaker / Narrator]

It is one of my favorite subjects. The story of the Greeks and the siege of Troy and Odysseus return home. Of course I say Greeks. Homer called them the Achaeans, the Danaans, the Argives. The word Greeks is a much later one, but it refers really to the Mycenaeans, that warrior aristocracy essentially obsessed with honor and reputation that would give them an eternal glory. A kleos, as they call it. It's the kleos that's in the name of so many Greeks. You know, Cleopatra and all the Socrates, Heracles, who's Hercules, you know here Hera's glory. He was actually named Heracles because she hated him, because he was a love child of Zeus. And she never liked Zeus's love childs. Her husband, her errant husband. And so as an attempt to placate her, Tiresias, because he was born in Thebes, suggested that he change his name as a baby. This was to Heracles, the glory of Heracles.

[Al Murray]

It didn't help much.

[Guest Speaker / Narrator]

It didn't help at all. Seen her even put her on Hera's breast when Hera was asleep because it would bond them if he suckled her milk. But she woke and saw it and tossed him away and her breast milk spread across the sky to form the Milky Way.

[Al Murray]

I didn't know that story because Galaxy.

[Guest Speaker / Narrator]

Of course, is from the Greek for milk, Galactic, as in lactic. So the chocolate makers are right. Anyway, this is completely separate.

[Al Murray]

Keep going, don't stop. Well, we really hope you enjoyed that clip here.

[James Holland]

More on the the Bronze Age apocalypse.

[Al Murray]

And how it shaped the ancient Greek epics. Just subscribe to Empire wherever you get your podcasts.