Warbirds of Liberty: The Fantastic Fighting 4th - The Blakesleewaffe (Part 3)

Summary

WW2 Pod: We Have Ways of Making You Talk

Warbirds of Liberty: The Fantastic Fighting 4th - The Blakesleewaffe (Part 3)

Date: February 17, 2026
Hosts: Al Murray (comedian) & James Holland (historian)

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Episode Overview

This energetic, deeply knowledgeable episode continues the epic chronicle of the US Army Air Forces’ 4th Fighter Group in WWII—known as the “Blakesleewaffe” after its legendary leader Don Blakeslee. Al and James pick up with the transition from Spitfires to P-47 Thunderbolts and, crucially, the arrival of the P-51 Mustang. They dive into the evolution of American air power, the Mustang’s British roots, fighter tactics, and the pivotal period leading up to D-Day, full of dogfights, brash confidence, and hard-won air supremacy. The hosts’ banter brings a mix of humor, admiration for the pilots, and technical insight.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Recap and Setting the Scene

• Transition to USAAF: The former Eagle Squadrons’ move from RAF to USAAF (71, 121, 133 RAF to 334, 335, 336 USAAF squadrons).
• Introducing Characters: Don Blakeslee, Jim Goodson, Don Gentile, Kid Hofer, Vic France, and others constitute a “Dirty Dozen” cast (03:20).
• USAAF’s Early Challenges: Grappling with the transition, developing new fighter tactics, the advent of the drop tank, and resistance to aircraft changes (03:41).

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2. The Genesis and Triumph of the P-51 Mustang

The Mustang’s Anglo-American Story

• British Demand Makes the Mustang Possible: The aircraft was produced to a rapid British specification (07:18).
• “You, our American viewers and listeners… It’s a great American plane, but it all comes down to the British mission.” —Al Murray (07:23)
• Design Innovation: Dutch Kindelberger (NAA boss) & German-born Edgar Schmued, the genius designer (08:02).
• Easy to Build and Ship: Pragmatic, efficient design, simple construction, and a wing-root attachment system that made logistics easier (09:42).

Fixing the Engine, Unlocking the Legend

• Allison Engine Shortfall: Original Mustang (with Allison engine) could not compete at high altitude—OK below 10,000 ft, not suitable for escort (12:30).
• The Merlin Marriage: RAF test pilot Roy Harker suggested pairing the Mustang with a Rolls Royce Merlin engine—transformative effect (11:02).
• “The designers make the airframe and a different designer does the engine … what’s so genius about the Spitfire, of course, is a marriage to the Rolls Royce Merlin." —James Holland (10:37)
• Packard-built Merlins: American Packard company builds the Merlin under license, combining US and UK strengths (19:16).

Transformation to Escort Powerhouse

• Long-range Experiments: Extra tanks (wing and behind the pilot) prove Mustang can fly to Warsaw and back—range and speed at high altitude become unmatched (15:53, 17:08).
• “Over 30,000ft it can do like 450 [mph], which makes it 70 miles an hour faster than any other fighter aircraft in the world at that time above 30,000ft. And that is absolutely bingo.” —James Holland (17:09)
• Efficiency & Maneuverability: Sleek lines, high wing loading, ease of manufacture and maintenance; a third the time and two-thirds the cost of the P-47 (17:27).

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3. Leadership and Culture in the 4th Fighter Group

• Don Blakeslee’s Command Style: Aggressive, demanding perfection—“He was all business and the business was killing.” (20:15)
  • “In the briefing, he let us know that he was the master of his craft and that he would brook nothing less than perfection from those that flew with him.” —Dick Turner (19:36)
• Molding by Example: Blakeslee instills confidence, competition, and aggressive esprit de corps—not for glory but for survival and mission success (22:06).
• Reputation as “Blakesleewaffe”: Intense rivalry with 56th Fighter Group, constant drive to be the best (23:47, 24:13).

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4. Changing Tactics: The Doolittle Revolution

• Jimmy Doolittle replaces Ira Eaker as 8th Air Force commander (32:20).
• Shift from “Stick to the Bombers” to “Go Hunt”: Fighters unleashed to seek and destroy the Luftwaffe, not just escort (32:33).
  • “He says, don’t close the score, just go maraude. Go and take everything out.” —James Holland (32:37)
• Formation Flying and Finger Four: Explanation and demonstration of “finger four” tactic (33:15).

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5. Climax: Big Week and the Turning Point

Operation Argument (“Big Week”)

• Dates: February 20–25, 1944.
• Goal: Massive US/RAF raids to destroy German fighter production and force Luftwaffe into a decisive battle (43:13–45:34).
• Results:
  • Huge reduction in bomber losses compared to earlier raids (45:34–45:58).
  • Direct, crippling hits on Leipzig and Schweinfurt assembly plants.
  • Luftwaffe forced to throw inexperienced pilots into battle; American pilot quality, training time, and strength surge ahead (28:26, 41:04).

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6. Dogfights, Individual Heroics, and Morale

• Don Gentile’s Paris Dogfight: Lengthy, tense dogfight over Paris—disobeying advice, running out of ammo, surviving by skill alone (34:57–41:44).

  • “You can think of a thousand things at such moments and nothing seems to be happening in your life except that a plane is coming slowly towards you and you’re living a lifetime … as if it was a sped up movie reel and aging fast and growing old and older … looking suddenly at the end of your life…” —Gentile, quoted by James Holland (35:31)
  • His dogfight turned into a squadron song (42:56).

• Vic France’s Final Fight: Legendary pilot dies in a ferocious chase, Downing his opponent but losing control (65:42–65:58).

  • “If it is [Heaven], it’s going to be one hell of a show.” —France’s girlfriend, Audrey (66:19)

• Kid Hofer & John Godfrey: Lone-wolf tactics, grumbles about radio discipline, and the rise of ground attack missions (59:43–61:49).

• Swagger and Camaraderie: Anecdotes of leather jackets, squadron pride, competitive esprit, and banter about war movies and RAF vs US aircraft (63:07–63:16).

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7. The German Perspective and Final Reckoning

• Luftwaffe Collapse: Attrition of planes and (crucially) pilots, production unable to compensate for training deficit (49:30, 51:05).
  • “In numbers as well as in technical performance, the daytime fighter units assigned to German air defense activity are used inferior to the American fighter aircraft forces.” —General Beppo Schmidt (58:24)
• Goering’s Famous Lament: “Then I saw the Mustangs over Berlin. I knew the jig was up.” —Hermann Goering (52:24)
• By D-Day:
  • Luftwaffe day/night strength: 2,686; Allied: 16,956 bombers, 25,416 fighters (67:10).
  • Farthest German fighter base is 500 miles from Normandy beaches by late May (66:49).
  • Complete air supremacy sets the scene for the Normandy invasion.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Mustang’s Impact:

  • “Would you argue, therefore, that the Mustang is the most important warplane ever built?” —Al Murray (56:52)
  • “Yes. Most consequential … it changes everything. It gives them air superiority …” —James Holland (56:58)

• On Leadership:

  • “He was all business and the business was killing.” —Dick Turner on Blakeslee (19:36)
  • “It’s not aggressive for its own sake … the best way to prosecute this is to be aggressive, because there isn’t any other way to do this.” —Al Murray (23:30)

• Goering on Mustangs over Berlin:

  • “Then I saw the Mustangs over Berlin. I knew the jig was up.” —James Holland as Goering (52:24)

• Squadron Song (about Don Gentile):

  • “Help, Help, I’m being clobbered, down here by the railway track;
    Two 190s chase me round, and we’re down near to the ground;
    Tell them I got two if I didn’t make it back.” (42:56)

• On Loss and Luck:

  • “There weren’t bodies or funerals. They were just weren’t around anymore …” —James Holland (63:32)
  • “They are still suffering losses.” —Al Murray (63:29)

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Important Timestamps

• P-51 Mustang design and transformation: 05:38–18:09
• Blakeslee’s leadership style: 19:36–24:13
• Tactics shift after Doolittle: 32:20–33:46
• Gentile’s dramatic dogfight and squadron culture: 34:57–43:10
• Big Week summary and American air war turning point: 43:36–50:16
• Goering’s ‘jig is up’ quote: 52:24
• Loss of Vic France, pilot risks: 64:30–66:19
• D-Day Air Superiority, scale and stats: 66:30–67:48
• Final thoughts on Mustang’s pivotal role: 56:52–57:14

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Tone & Style

• The episode is lively, irreverent, packed with banter and analogies (Hollywood, movies, football teams, “cocked hat” remarks).
• Hosts balance technical detail (aircraft specs, tactics) with story-driven, personal, and humorous asides.
• Direct attributions and in-character impersonations (Goering, Texan drawl, squadron banter) make the stories vivid and memorable.

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Summary for Newcomers

If you’ve never listened:
This episode gives you a cinematic, yet factual account of how the 4th Fighter Group, under Don Blakeslee, and the introduction of the P-51 Mustang, transformed the sky war over Europe. You’ll learn why the Mustang was more British than many realize, how American leadership and industrial might closed the “qualitative gap,” and how relentless, competitive, and pragmatic tactics led to air supremacy before D-Day. Legendary dogfights, leadership lessons, and military banter keep the history grounded in character and drama, culminating in the Mustangs over Berlin—“the jig was up.”

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(Ad sections, intros, outros omitted as requested.)

Transcript

[Al Murray]

Thank you for listening to we have ways of making you talk. Sign up to our Patreon to receive bonus content, live streams, and our weekly newsletter with money off books and museum visits as well. Plus early access to all live show tickets. That's patreon.com wehaveways. Right now get up to 20% off select online storage solutions put heavy duty HDX totes to good use, protecting what's important. The solid, impact resistant design prevents cracking, and the clear base and sides make items easy to find even when the totes are stacked. Find select online shelving and tote storage up to 20% off at the Home Depot. To organize every room in your home, from your garage to your attic, visit homedepot.com how doers get more DONE it's tax season, and at Lifelock, we know you're tired of numbers, but here's a big one you need to hear. Billions. That's the amount of money in refunds the IRS has flattened for possible identity fraud. Now here's another big number. 100 million. That's how many data points Lifelock monitors every second. If your identity is stolen, we'll fix it. Guaranteed. One last big number. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com podcast for the threats you can't control. Terms apply. We heard you.

[James Holland]

Nine years of Bring back the Snack wrap and you've won. But maybe you should have asked for more. Say hello to the Hot Honey Snack Wrap. Now you've really won.

[Al Murray]

Go to McDonald's and get it while you can.

[James Holland]

I got hits on mine as soon as I opened fire, and more hits and flashes with each burst. When I broke hard to the right to avoid ramming him, I saw him spiraling down, smoking and with flames along the side of his fuselage. I often see that in my mind's eye. Somehow there is something terribly stark about that cold combination gray fuselage, black cross, black smoke, yellow and red flame. It's brought back to me every time I see the black, yellow and red of the German flag. That was Jim Goodson describing a dogfight over Magdeburg in that fantastic memoir of his tumult in the clouds, which, you know, I know we've just been wanging on about pursuit by Ludovic Kennedy. Yeah, this is another one. And, people, good news. It's in print.

[Al Murray]

Oh, is it?

[James Holland]

Yes.

[Al Murray]

Oh, fantastic.

[James Holland]

Roland White republished it.

[Al Murray]

Brilliant. Excellent. Well, welcome. Welcome everyone, to we have ways to make you talk with me, Al Murray and James Holland, and part three of our series about the fourth Fighter group with warbirds of Liberty. Is that what we've called this?

[James Holland]

Warbirds of Liberty? I mean, we're just calling it Warbirds the Fantastic Fighting For.

[Al Murray]

Okay. I think. I think I'm good to Liberty. Well, I'm lobbying for war. Birds of Liberty. And in our previous episodes, we. We looked at the Eagle Squadrons when this was the Royal Air. And then their transition to the U.S. army Air Force as 334335 and 3356 squadrons. Because, you know, the Americans switching over.

[James Holland]

From 71, 121 and 133.

[Al Murray]

That's right.

[James Holland]

Easy to remember.

[Al Murray]

And switching over from bubble and squeak to steak. We also met these incredible characters who have this sort of Dirty dozen casting.

[James Holland]

Don. Don. Jim B. Yeah, kid.

[Al Murray]

Vic France.

[James Holland]

Vic France.

[Al Murray]

And also we looked at the progress of the USAF as it grappled with the business of bringing the air war to Europe.

[James Holland]

Yes.

[Al Murray]

The development of fighter tactics. The arrival of the drop tank on the P47, which is our new arrival, as they've moved from Spitfires to P47s.

[James Holland]

Yes.

[Al Murray]

Some of the pushback from the crews about that. But we teased, didn't we? Well, at the end of the last episode, we did a bit of what they call a dangle, didn't we? We dangled you the possibility of another. And also of lots of James Holland cheap thrills. And what we thought we'd do that episode. You see, we recorded me in my office, Jim in his office. But we thought I needed to be in the same room as James when he goes into this paroxysm of ecstasy as we get to the airplane in this episode. And those of you who know your way around this subject a little probably know exactly what we're talking about.

[James Holland]

Yeah, but those who don't.

[Al Murray]

Those. You don't.

[James Holland]

You've got a thrill in store. Yeah.

[Al Murray]

Some delayed gratification, hopefully.

[James Holland]

Anyway, we should start with our old friend Don Blakesley. This. This beating heart of the. Of the Warbirds of Liberty, the fighting forth the four fighter group. And it's December 94. We're just gonna fast forward a little bit to December 1943. And Blakeslee, who's still only 26, by the way. Yeah, he flies to Bokstead in Essex. I've been there. Is. You can see where the old airfield. There's still a Nissan. Hut. You know how a lot of these airfields, they've got one little bit of brickwork somewhere. It's covered in brambles.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. It's a farm, is it?

[James Holland]

Yeah, kind of thing. But. But Boxtead They've got, they've got a, a couple of Nissan Huts and one of them has been turned into a museum.

[Al Murray]

Right, great.

[James Holland]

Which is nice. It's got lots of dangling models from the scene. Oh, brilliant stuff. And it's run by a very enthusiastic people. Anyway, he flies to Boxtead in Essex in his P47 Thunderbolt and he's been asked to train the greenhorns of the 354 Fighter Group who are flying the new P40 51B better known as the Mustang. The Mustang.

[Al Murray]

And this is. So this is the B though, so not yet the sort of glory version.

[James Holland]

Yeah, so the, the D is the one that you'll see, you know, air shows now and they've got the bubble canopy and all the rest of it. The, the B has got the canopy still sort of incorporated diffused with the. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's still really damn hot.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah. And, and these are Merlin powered Mustangs.

[James Holland]

They Packard built Merlin engines. Anyway, the 354th is earmar the 9th Air Force which is going to be the tactical air force, which is going to be supporting the D day operations. Operation Overlord, that's what it's there for. Ninth Air Force is a tactical air force, so is there to support ground operations. The 8th Air Force, the mighty 8th is a strategic air force, there to operate on its own, doing strategic long range bombing and all the rest of it. So that's the difference.

[Al Murray]

Although. Although. Although when it comes to anyway, the Normandy campaign.

[James Holland]

We'll unpick this in a minute. But anyway, be that as it may, the 354 for our completely new unit, right? They're entirely new. They've come over at the end of November. They've arrived in Bokstead with their P51s. They're completely new and they haven't gone operational yet. 8th Fighter Command, they've been seconded temporarily to the 8th Air Force, so they are earmarked for the 9th, but right now they're in the 8th and there they are, they're completely green but they've all got lots of hours on their logbooks but they haven't done any combat flying at all, any of them. So Blakesy's been sent over to tell them a few things and he goes over and gives them a little bit of kind of, of his two pennif of his wisdom. But the thing is, I think it's worth just, just going into a little bit of a recap about the Mustangs.

[Al Murray]

Well, yeah, if only because let's not forget that without a British specification.

[James Holland]

Yes.

[Al Murray]

There would be no Mustang. So you, our American viewers and listeners. Yeah, yeah. It's a great American plane, but it all comes down to the. To the. To the British mission.

[James Holland]

Well, it does because they go over in February 1940, and they. And they go up to North American Aviation, which is a smaller company. It's not as big as Norfolk Grumman or. Or Boeing or Consolidated, even some of these bigger. Bigger names. Yeah. And. Or Voight. It is. It's in California. It's run by a guy called Dutch Kindleberger. Great name.

[Al Murray]

Everything still is still on the nose.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

Dutch Kindleberg. Mr. Kindleber. Call me Dutch.

[James Holland]

Call me Dutch, son. Yeah. And his chief designer is Edgar Schmood.

[Al Murray]

Yes.

[James Holland]

And Edgar Schmid was born in Germany.

[Al Murray]

Yep.

[James Holland]

Emigrated to. Got asked to go and design aircraft in South America, then got lured by North American Aviation. He's come over and anyway, the British Purchasing Commission goes up and says, you know, could you make us some Kitty Hawks, please? You know.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. And they don't want to make Kitty Hawks, do they?

[James Holland]

No, they said, well, we could do.

[Al Murray]

But, you know, we'd rather build something ourselves.

[James Holland]

Yeah. You know, we don't want to build Curtis, but fighter planes. Thank you very much. We want to. But we've got this design that we've just come up with. And the British go, yeah, okay. It looks really good, like the look of that. And it's got some quite interesting features. It's got sort of aerofoil wing, which basically means normally you have. The top side of the wing is a different. Is a more sort of bulbous, sloping edge to it than the. You have a flat underside and then a roll, sort of like a sort of low, shallow slope going down on the other side. But aerofoil means it's sort of equal both sides.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

It's got. Also got this radiator, which. In air intake for the radiator, which is much further back. So it's got always kind of very sleek lines about it. It's got quite high wing loading, which means the wings are comparatively small. But that means it's very agile, which.

[Al Murray]

Also means you have to take off fast. So take off and landing.

[James Holland]

But it's got very wide on the cage.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which. Which mitigates for how tricky it is to take some land.

[James Holland]

So. So there's lots that's quite good about it. And the internal construction is very simple compared to a lot of modern fighter at that. At that time. So something like the Hurricane or even The Spitfire or even those Curtis Warhawks and Kitty Hawks internally, they're actually quite complex.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

And what Edgar Schmood is doing is take it onto another level.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

So it's very sort of pragmatic, which means it's going to then be cheaper to manufacture.

[Al Murray]

Well, and move as well. Because, because you need to be able to ship it. And one of the, one of the things is the, the wings are attached with the wing root with eight bolts or something.

[James Holland]

Something like that.

[Al Murray]

Take them off.

[James Holland]

Yep.

[Al Murray]

Whereas with a Spitfire with the main spa, there's a, you know, that's not, that's not a goer, is it? No, but anyway, the British business basically.

[James Holland]

Say, okay, great, but, but, you know, we need this really, really quickly. So how soon can you do the prototype? You know, can you, you know, there's a deal if you can do this in 120 days. And they, they do a bit of teeth sucking, you know, can we do this? What do you, what do you think? Can we do? Can we just. Yeah, sure, we can do it. And so they do it and they do in 117 days.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

And it looks an app, you know, it is an absolute beauty. The problem with it is that it's allied to an Allison PV1710 engine. And that is not very good for this plane.

[Al Murray]

No.

[James Holland]

You know, successful planes are always a marriage between the power plant, the engine and the airframe. And the designers make the airframe and a different designer does the, does the engine. You know, what's so genius about the Spitfire, of course, is a marriage to the Rolls Royce Merlin. And it's not until October 1942 that Roy Harker, who is the chief test pilot for Rolls Royce, suddenly thinks, hmm, actually, I wonder what would happen if we put a Merlin in it.

[Al Murray]

But it's a later Merlin as well, because Merlin 10. Because this is the thing though, isn't it, is that when they're, when the Kitty Hawk, for instance, is being commissioned, in fact, when this aircraft being commissioned, the Allison engine is pretty much state of the art, isn't it? But things have moved on. Things move on really, really fast.

[James Holland]

Yes.

[Al Murray]

And the Merlin has to. The Merlin's being upgraded and has to meet, for instance, when the FW 190 comes on the scene. The Spitfires have to be up powered kind of in emergency style. That's how you get the Mark 9 Spitfire that shares the same engine as the Mustang. Because, because there's a, you know, there's a horsepower race on. It's as simple as that. And the, the initial Mustang is a product from before then. So, you know, it's just fortunate that it can take them early in without really any adjustment, isn't it?

[James Holland]

It's the thing, this is the key thing. It's really interesting because, because I've, I've, I've compared the 1710 with the Rolls Royce Merlin 10 and they're different shapes. But the crucial thing is they don't have to change the engine cowling of the Mustang at all, the P51 at all. Because although the PV 1710 is longer than the Merlin, the Merlin then has the supercharger put on and when you add the supercharger on, it's kind of basically the same dimension. That's the key thing. So Roy Harker looks at this and just goes, actually we can just do a swap here. There's, there's no, there's no big problem.

[Al Murray]

But the RAF have been flying them, haven't they?

[James Holland]

They have. And, and they're excellent under 10,000ft.

[Al Murray]

Well, this, I mean, you know, you're eating sandwiches here. This, this, the thing though is that, is that fighters have to be able to perform altitude. If you're going to intercept, if you're going to escort, you've got to be able to perform altitude. And the, the P51 initial P51s can't. I mean they're good enough for, for sort of rhubarbing and, and, and, and ground attack.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

But they can't do the high altitude thing. So they actually can't tussle with, with high powered German fighters properly. They've got to stay in their way. So they're not really any use to anybody.

[James Holland]

No. So what they're thinking is, well, we use these, well, we'll get a few, we won't kind of go too big on the orders, but we'll get a few in and we use them as sort of ground attack. You know, tactical air reconnaissance is what they call them. Tacos. Yeah. And it's just sort of slightly kind of parked. It's not, it's not a total dodge, but, but, but there's not, you know, they're not kind of mad for it. Then Roy Harker thinks, well, hang on a minute, I can put this Merlin 10 in it.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

And he doesn't. And it's just transformative.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

And in the summer of 1943, so this is October 1942. And what's the name of the guy who's the, the assistant air attache? He's a Friend of Roy Harker's. He's the guy on which one of the main characters in Greg Gatsby's based. Anyway, it's him, right? And he's friends with Roy Harker. And this American air attache lets it be known that this is an absolute result. And suddenly the Mustang with the P51 with the Merlin is a different beast and lets the powers that be up back in Washington know. So come the summer of 1943 and suddenly they've got a problem on their hand because they desperately need this long range escort. And the Thunderbolt is not the answer because it's not very fuel efficient. Yes. You can put the babies on it, you can put the drop tanks, but still not kind of really it. So what are we going to do? And Hap Arnold says to Barney Giles, who is his deputy, he says, says, okay, I don't care how you do this, but in six months we have to have a new long range fighter. And whether it's an existing plane that's adapted or whether it's a completely new plane altogether, I don't care, but just sort it out. And at this point he is tipped off that actually there's an answer right under their noses.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

So they think, well, hang on a minute, let's see what happens if you put the Mustang tank with a Merlin engine in. What happens if you put on a couple of extra 75 gallon tanks, you know, under the wings? I mean, it's, it takes off.

[Al Murray]

I mean, the interesting thing is compared to say the Spitfire, you know, neat. Without the extra fuel it can, because it's a more efficient airframe, it can fly further and it's, it's designed for flying straight and level at altitude. It's that the previous engine lets it down in that regard. And because the Spitfire is an interceptor, whereas the, the Mustang strictly speaking isn't. It's an escort fighter. There's a, there's enough of a difference. The idea of a Spitfire is it gets up quick, intercepts, comes back down. It's not been built with range in mind.

[James Holland]

No. At all. No.

[Al Murray]

Whereas the American, the Americans have been thinking in those terms.

[James Holland]

Yeah, they have.

[Al Murray]

And the, and the.

[James Holland]

Well, largely because America is a larger landmass.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think it's interesting that something so well suited to this task is actually there because people often say, well, why not just stick drop tanks on the Spitfire? You still wouldn't get the same fuel efficiency, still wouldn't get the same thing out of the Spitfire. Yeah. As you do out of the Mustang. It's like absolutely extraordinary.

[James Holland]

Well, two really extraordinary things about, about these experiments of extra fuel for, for the Mustang. The first thing is, is that they put this massive extra tank behind the, behind the, the pilot's seat. Yeah, behind the cockpit. And you know, the first thing was sort of, you know, okay, well, let's give it a go, see whether it take off. Well, it does takes off absolutely fine. They go, well, let's, let's add some small drop tanks on the wings and no problem at all. So increase it a little bit more. And again it takes off absolutely fine. And they go, well, let's really go big and go for the 75 gallon tanks, no problem at all. So it's got 150 gallons on the wings, another 70 odd gallons behind the cockpit. And it's ordinary fuel tanks, it's original fuel tanks. So suddenly it's fine. And suddenly it can do 1,450 miles, which gets it to Warsaw and back. And it's like, bingo, we've done it. And the amazing thing is the higher the altitude, the more efficient it becomes. Because what they discover is that the air intake, which is, if you remember, is behind the cockpit, underneath the fuselage, quite a long way back, giving it this quite unusual look. The air intake actually gives it a little bit of jet thrust. Yeah, it gives a little bit of extra. So it gives it more fuel efficiency and suddenly those airfoil wings and its sleek lines and its smoothness and everything, it's got less drag. And what they discover is, is that over 25, 000ft it can do, you know, 390 miles an hour.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

And over 30, 000ft it can do like 450, which makes it 70 miles an hour faster than any other fighter aircraft in the world at that time above 30,000ft. And that is absolutely bingo.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. If they'd got the mark one up that high, they might have found that out. But it couldn't get there, could it?

[James Holland]

It couldn't get there. Couldn't get there. So suddenly they've got this machine which can dive really fast, could climb really fast, is incredibly maneuverable because of its high wing loading. Has this incredible, incredible. Fuel efficiency is much easier to make. It takes a third of the time it takes to make a P47 for something and something like 2/3 of the cost. Yeah. You know, which is a major, major savings. Everyone's going, bring it on. It's got its eight machine guns, 50 caliber machine guns in the wings, so, you know, it can carry Bombs if you need it to. It can do all sorts of things. So suddenly it's really good and it's got the kind of svelte lines and sleekness of a Spitfire. So Dom Blakesy goes, I want a piece of, of that.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

And he's pretty cross that the four Fighter group aren't the first to have it. And it's a 354 for a bunch of greenhorns. But basically it is quite an odd decision that, that and you can see that somehow there isn't quite enough joined up thinking because.

[Al Murray]

No, I think it makes perfect sense.

[James Holland]

Why would you make it, why would you give it to Fighter group which is earmarked for the 9th.

[Al Murray]

Well, I could see why you start, you don't, you don't start the experience people on a new type who are used to a type that they, that you know, you don't.

[James Holland]

Yes, I suppose so.

[Al Murray]

You know, you, you keep fourth Fighter group on the, they've got. Because the, you know, the, the logistics shift, you've, it's not just the air crew have got to get used to a new aircraft.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

It's the people who have to maintain it. It's the irks, whatever the, whatever American irks are called. It's actually quite a big shift. Whereas new unit starts on new kit.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

You know, I, I, I, I can, I can see, I can see the logic. Not why you'd have tactical air force people unless they're escorting tactical bombers. But then that's range is an issue seeing as what's going to happen is they're going to be attacking bridges in northwest, you know, in France rather than, rather than having to go deep into the Reich.

[James Holland]

Yeah, but, yeah, but anyway, so these new P51BS with the Packard built and Packard used to make automobiles before the war, Packard built Merlin engines in them are starting to come across the Atlantic and the first fully equipped fighter group is the 354th. And Dom Blakesley turns up in December to Boxter to give them all a bit of a talking to, to give.

[Al Murray]

Them all the like watch out for the hunt in the.

[James Holland]

All that. And everyone just thinks, oh my God, you know, you know, because this is a guy with kind of, you know, just, just oozing charisma from every poor and how he gets out. And one of the guys who's there to witness this is Dick Turner who ends up becoming a fighter ace for the 354th. But he just says, you know, he just sits there and they're all in kind of completely in awe of this guy. And, and Turner writes, he was all business and the business was killing. In the briefing, he let us know that he was the master of his craft. And then he would brook nothing less than perfection from those that flew with him. So he's absolutely giving it to two barrels worth. There's no kind of softly, softly approach here.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

Anyway, he gathers all the pilots around into this briefing room before their first ever mission that afternoon. And he emphasizes the importance of radio and air discipline and the need for speed and height to gain advantage over the Germans. And he also instructs the pilots to never, ever turn away from a head on attack. So, plane's going towards you, just keep, keep firing. One pilot puts his hat up and goes, what would happen if the Germans were equally as aggressive? Obesity says, in that case, son, you'll have earned your extra flight and pay.

[Al Murray]

Unbelievable. Yeah, I mean, I, I'm just imagining the English equivalent, which is, you know, someone with a pipe saying, you know, take care of, you know, watch out for the hunt in the sun and all that.

[James Holland]

Well, I suppose in that case, one, one has to try not to flinch.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, there we are.

[James Holland]

Right.

[Al Murray]

I'm skewing in that direction, I've got to say. Yeah, I know, but if you're going.

[James Holland]

All in on the American way, you've just got to kind of embrace it.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

I think that's the point with Blake C. It's all in, isn't it?

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah. And he's promoted to the commander of 4th Fighter Group.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

Not long after, at the start of 1944. Literally at the start of 94, the first of January. Yeah.

[James Holland]

And it becomes known as the Blakesley Waffer.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. And. And he's spreading his way across the whole of the 4th Fighter Group. You got to be aggressive. You got to be. You got to get in there. You got the model. Yeah, yeah. Yes.

[James Holland]

Well, we've, we've done a lot of chat, haven't we, about army commanders, divisional commanders there at the top. Osmosis, like, you know, do you remember the whole thing about, about Walker, Fred Walker at the Rapid Earth saying, you know, he's just oozing defeatism and it's a self, you know, culture.

[Al Murray]

It's culture and leadership.

[James Holland]

This is, this is it, you know, he's, he's forming the four Fighter group in his mold and everyone's looking up to him and going, yeah, that's how you need to behave.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's radiating this confidence, this style, and it's Interesting. And he, you know, he wants the 4th to be the best. Best fighter group in the 8th Air Force. It's his way or the highway, all this sort of stuff.

[James Holland]

Yeah, but he's. He's, he's not.

[Al Murray]

He.

[James Holland]

He's much less so, I think, than he's. He's not as in. In the same mold as Stamford Tuck and, And Galland and Barda.

[Al Murray]

No, I think.

[James Holland]

No, I think he's more collegiate. You know, he's looking out for his guys more. He's, He's. He's not egocentric. Because if he was egocentric, he'd have the swastikas on his.

[Al Murray]

Yes.

[James Holland]

On his plane. And he. And he'd have the, you know, his plane would be called Baby Doll or something.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Holland]

And he doesn't have any of that.

[Al Murray]

Right.

[James Holland]

He's about making them all as good as they possibly can be. And I never really sort of get that vibe.

[Al Murray]

But. But what it's really about is saving their lives.

[James Holland]

Yes.

[Al Murray]

Which is. Which is in the end, you know, still. Nut. Flesh is all very well, but you still don't want to. If you can avoid. Still people are in danger, and if you can avoid spending their flesh, you. You do. And that. That's what's at the core of this, actually. He wants these guys to come home. He doesn't want them lost to the. To the Luftwaffe. I think that's. That's actually what's going on here. Here.

[James Holland]

Yeah, but he's all. But, but part of that is being aggressive. Don't, don't faff. Don't. Don't.

[Al Murray]

It's. But it's not aggressive for its own sake. No, it's not war lust. It's like that.

[James Holland]

Actually.

[Al Murray]

The best way to prosecute this is to be aggressive, because there isn't any other way to do this. Yeah, not. He's not. It's not the. The, you know, the. The battle cry of a bloodthirsty man.

[James Holland]

No.

[Al Murray]

Right. You see what I mean?

[James Holland]

No, Yeah, I do. Completely.

[Al Murray]

Completely. Yeah.

[James Holland]

But. But there's no question. There is. There is competition. There's competition, but to make the four fighter group the most famous, bestest in the whole world. And, you know, the rival really is the 56th, which is commanded by Hubzemka. And, you know, Bob Johnson is one of the pilots with the 56. As anything you did in an airplane, you were watched and criticized by other squadrons. And of course, you broke that competitiveness down within squadron itself between flights. Yeah.

[Al Murray]

I mean, but when they were Eagle squadrons, they all 71 looked down on the others. Right. So. But that, but that. You know, anyone who's ever come into any proximity with any military outfit will know that that's how they operate. You know, they supposate the gunners. The gunners hate the sappers. You know, that's how it works because that's, that's esprit de corps.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

You know, that's how you generate esprit de corps. Because what else are you going to do? Shoot down more fighters than the other guys?

[James Holland]

What are you going to do?

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

Anyway, for the moment, he turns up at Boxstead.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

And sees these Mustangs and he takes it for a flight. He thinks we have to have this. Yeah, this is my plane. There's, you know, I can't have Spitfires anymore, but this is what I want. This is actually even a notch up. Yeah. And so he lobbies really, really hard. And of course, you know, he's the commander of the four fighter group. He's got this incredible combat record. You know, he's incredibly experienced. You know, Bill Kempner, who is the commander of the eight Fighter Command, he's going to listen to him. You know, he's a young man who has earned that respect. The problem is that, that Kempner's really reluctant to change over because of this transition. Yeah. He doesn't want them out of the line.

[Al Murray]

He doesn't want them out of the line because it's not. You don't hop in a new plane tomorrow and go to Berlin. It doesn't work like that.

[James Holland]

But Blazer goes to see him in person and he says, no, no, I'm not having any of that. Most of these boys flew liquid cool types in the raf. He goes, it won't take them long. And he goes, general, give me those Mustangs. And I give you my word, I'll have them in combat in 24 hours. I promise. 24 hours. And Captain goes, all right, all right. So the fourth becomes the third. Well, I think it's the second fighter group to get, get Mustangs. Anyway, they get them in late February 1944, they start coming in. Yeah. In, in dribs and drabs. Immediately takes them out. I mean, of course it's not exactly 24 hours, but, but, but you know, there is, there is no let up in what they're doing.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[James Holland]

And they are absolutely ready in, in very quick time. And basically what he does, he rotates them out to go and practice.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. Get. Getting used to the airframe.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

Which Means by mid, mid February that 8th Air Force can staged 100 P51 Mustangs on every bomber mission. Yeah, yeah. And, and as well as 700 other fighters. So there's Lightnings as well as, you know, talked about the Lightning. Because the Lightning has the range.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

Always did have the.

[James Holland]

Yeah, it just doesn't have the maneuverability.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

Still have a plan thing.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, but, but I think it's, it's quite interesting. Yeah, well, yes, exactly. Well, but two of them will get you there. Yeah, but, but, but it's interesting because. Because very often when we talk about this, that falls out, that aircraft falls out of the picture completely.

[James Holland]

Yeah. And that's more effective in the Mediterranean.

[Al Murray]

Well, yeah, it is part of the mix. Yeah. But you're, but in the med. You're not up against the yagish father who are, who are desperate to defend the homeland. You know, simple as that.

[James Holland]

Exactly.

[Al Murray]

It's the, the level of opposition, isn't it? Or the skill. But the thing is, the other thing is the Luftwaffe as a result of this relentless pressure from the 8th Air Force is degrading fast. You have a real problem with, I mean the fighter production is churning away and famously they're doing knocking out lots of types. But hours on type is a thing that's non existent for German pilots because they can't train in Canada away from the fray. Right. They haven't got much fuel. The, the Germans are falling behind in terms of innovation really. Because, because they, they haven't got the luxury of American industry at the disposal.

[James Holland]

No. And they're also wasting their time on side projects and kind of upgrading their Messerschmitt 110 pointlessly to something that is unusual.

[Al Murray]

Exactly. There's not a sort of rational industrial policy when it comes to that. It's just knock the types out as quickly as possible and, and you end up with woefully inexperienced pilots going up against these guys like Blakesley who are absolute. Who have squadrons of, of people with this level of expertise is the thing rather than expert. And in the Luftwaffe model where you know, the leader says follow me and all these green people, greenhorns come along, get shot down. So the, the way the pressure's being cranked up and at the, at the moment where the, where it could tip for the Luftwaffe, the Mustang comes on the scene. I mean it's, it couldn't be worse news.

[James Holland]

Well, it's very interesting, you know, if you're a, if you're a new guy pilot coming in to, to join the, the Four fighter group, for example. What will happen is you'll arrive then that by this stage, with 350 plus hours on your logbook before you've even got to, you know, Debton.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

Which is a hell of a lot. And you again, go back to sort of Battle of Britain days. Luftwaffe fighter command. 150, 175, that kind of area. Now it's 350. So they're already really, really good. They've also got a massive amount of contingency. So every, you know, we never send more than 16 airborne in a squadron at a time. But you've probably got 30 aircraft. Yeah, 30 plus pilots for one squadron. And what that means is that you've got the luxury to be able to get there, get on the base, start meeting the guys, go up with some of the old hands, learn some tricks of the trade. Then you'll go on a milk run, you know, a little jaunt over to France on your first operational mission. You won't be doing the sort of kid Hofer thing of sort of shooting something down, you know, you wouldn't be expected to on your first. First mission. Yeah. And what that means is by the time you're actually going into proper combat over Berlin for, say, or Bremen or wherever it might be, you're no longer thinking about flying. You're concentrating on being a fighter pilot.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, you got.

[James Holland]

Yeah, you know, because. Because you don't have to think about turning. Turning left or turning right and port to starboard or whatever, or doing a split S. You just do it.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. But the Germans are suffering the opposite problem.

[James Holland]

Opposite problem. Exactly that. And so there is this. Not only is. There is this massive qualitative gap getting wider and wider, but to go back to the full fighter group. So they get their first ever Mustangs arrive on 13 February, so just before Big Week. And Blakesley confesses to his boys a promise he made to Kepner. And they're sort of going, okay. And he goes, yeah, don't worry about it. You can learn to fly him on the way to the target.

[Al Murray]

God almighty.

[James Holland]

But this is the man who got all 16 to take off from a grass airfield.

[Al Murray]

Yes, I know, I know. But, you know, the thing is, is they're all really well trained, so they can respond to this kind of pressure. But some of that, that might be quite like what we're gonna do.

[James Holland]

What?

[Al Murray]

I'm gonna learn to fly on the way to the target.

[James Holland]

Yeah. What?

[Al Murray]

I didn't sign up.

[James Holland]

But the reality, that's not really no.

[Al Murray]

That isn't really gonna happen.

[James Holland]

So what's really happening is they're swapping them around. Come in, they go, okay, well you, you guys go and take them up today, learn a bit.

[Al Murray]

And then, I mean, that could come straight out of catch 22.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

You're going to learn to fly on the way to the target. I mean, the thing is, is that. But, but the group diary says these guys are working the new Mustangs to death. Everyone wants a ride. They're into it because it's totally into it because it's a hot rod as well.

[James Holland]

It's a great place, exciting, and the boss. Boss loves it. So therefore they all want to.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the Americans, what the Americans need to do because Overlord is coming, is bring the Germans to battle to break the back of the Luftwaffe.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

And the, the mass.

[James Holland]

As well as destroy the, the assembly plants.

[Al Murray]

Well, yes, but, but that's, that's how you destroy the Luftwaffe is by aiming at the assembly plants that the one target they have to defend without fail is aircraft production in Germany. You know, the politics of defending Germany dictate that they have to, they have to meet the us, their force. They can't not. And then the, and then the strategic necessity of defending your aircraft factories means they can't not either.

[James Holland]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And well, and the other thing I think is really interesting at this time is not only is this qualitative gap emerging, you've got this pioneering new aircraft that can do all the range. You know, it'll go as far as any bomber wants to go. It can do it and escort it all the way and all the way back. So that's great. But you've also got a change in tactics. Yeah. So what was happening was our acre, because of all the losses in the autumn, our acre being the commander in chief of 8th Air Force in the autumn of 1943.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

Because of all these losses, he's going, you've got to stick to the bombers like glue. But I mean, where have we heard that before? Yeah. You know, that's, that's a Luftwaffe from the Battle of Britain. Changing tactics.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

Aker is moved upstairs to the Mediterranean in the end of, end of 1943 and replaced by Jimmy Doolittle. Yeah. One of the great aviators of his age.

[Al Murray]

And he says, go fight, fight, go fight.

[James Holland]

He says, don't close the score, just go maraude. Go and take everything out. You know, escort them if you have to.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

You know, protect them. But, but, but just go and do it. And when you come back, targets of.

[Al Murray]

Opportunity on the way home and everything. Shoot up anything. Yeah, yeah. And. And they're given free reign. And for a man like Blakesley, that's. That's like. That's the perfect set of orders, isn't it?

[James Holland]

Yeah. And. And Kepner totally buys into this.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

You know, he's just so happy. He's finally been sort of unleashed from the. From the shackles of constraints point. And he initiates this program where the best pilots in the 8th or for their flying tips, which are then printed and distributed around the force. And I've got copies of these. They're just absolutely amazing. So, you know, you have the finger four, and how it's done is finger four.

[Al Murray]

I mean, we've got people watching. We can.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

You fly like that.

[James Holland]

Lead guys with his wingman on his. On his left. Then you have guy just a little bit further back. Right.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. So that's the. That's the. That's the lead man I'd like to apologize to. There's his wingman.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

And then there's that. And then their wingman. Their wingmen to the. To the. And they fly in this formation. And the idea is that everyone has eyes on everyone else. In theory. Everyone's. Everyone's able to look out and respond efficiently.

[James Holland]

Yep. So number one is free to look around. Numbers two, three, and four need to guard the rear of a section by looking across and behind. And crossover turns have to be practiced, which they can all do. Do because they've got this contingency. They can take time to practice it and make sure it. So, you know, it means they can fly straight and level for longer without fear of being bounced. Means. That means they're helping to conserve fuel.

[Al Murray]

Well, and also the Mustang. The Mustang is not like a Spitfire's twitchy. You have to give the Spitfire attention when you're flying it relatively. Yeah. With the Mustang, you can.

[James Holland]

You.

[Al Murray]

She'll fly straight and level without you having to be on the controls the whole time.

[James Holland]

Time.

[Al Murray]

So if you're cruising out to Germany, it's less demanding on the pilot.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

And less tiring the pilot because he's not having to think about it in the way that the. You know, because the Spitfire is necessarily unstable effectively, so it's extremely maneuverable. The Mustang's a different. A different California solid. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[James Holland]

As we know from experience.

[Al Murray]

Yes. From flying it. Yeah. So we. We. We looked at Don Gentile. We were talking about John Gentile. Don Gentle, known as Gentle. Right. Don Gentile, and he's been to Paris. Yes.

[James Holland]

He writes this extraordinary, extraordinary sortie. Yeah. So it's back in January and it's in the, in the afternoon. He's flying close to Paris and he spots 15 focke Wulf 190s flying at about 4,000ft below them, heading east. And so he thinks, because he's super confident and knows what he's about, he thinks, I get him, I'll dive down. Instructs his wingman, Lieutenant Richards, to follow him. So once the Germans spot them, they all split their formation in two and start flying towards eight Thunderbolts that are now closing in on them. Because do you remember that Gentile by this point is a flight commander. So he heads down, then his wingman heads down, the rest follow the other, the other two finger four, you know, the other half and one finger four. And Gentile leads the pack, flying at around 400 miles an hour, something like that. And he gets ready to shoot. And he recalls, you can think of a thousand things at such moments and nothing seems to be happening in your life except that a plane is coming slowly towards you and you're living a lifetime as if it was a sped up movie reel and aging fast and growing old and older and looking suddenly at the end of your life in just about the time it takes to say it. It's from Hollywood. It's even talking about Hollywood.

[Al Murray]

It's pure. It's pure Hollywood.

[James Holland]

Yeah. So the big thing is who's gonna break first? And this is the point, you know, and Dom Blakesley says, never break. Yeah, you know. So the planes are about to collide head on and Gentile stays absolutely resolute. And of course the German pilot breaks first, giving Gentil the sort of the psychological edge. The Focke Wulfs then dive down, Gentiles pursuing, determined to catch them. And he assumes that Richards and the rest are all still following behind, but is so focused on that he doesn't bother to check in with him on the radio or anything. So he shoots at the first Focker Wulf gets a hit, watches the plane spiral down and crash. And now he's a bit vulnerable on his own because a Focke Wulf begins opening fire on him. And Richards catches this and attacks, attacks the very same Fokker Wulf. And then both planes are suddenly spiraling around each other, trying to get on the other, the other's tail. And Fokke Wulfs are supposed to be able to out turn them thunderbolt But Richards does ultimately get onto the Focke. Wolf's tail opens fire until the enemy plane starts smoking. Then it turns on his back and plummets into the woods below, exploding. So that's a successful hit. But Richards has now lost Gentile.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

And he's also out of ammo, so he thinks, okay, well, I need. I need a skedaddle. Yeah. So he goes for home, which means that Gentile is now flying all alone.

[Al Murray]

He's caught and hit another 190, which also has exploded in the forest below. I mean, this is a bad. This is a bad day for this Yagishvala, isn't it? After this, he starts. Starts climbing up because you also can't hang around a low altitude because you're spotted and vulnerable to attack. So he tries to shake off the lead Focke Wulf by weaving and turning in different directions because he comes under attack because he's flying low and his plane is getting hit. There's two holes in his fuselage in his right wing. The lead pilot's wingman is then hurtling towards him, but suddenly breaks away Gentile. He recalls, I threw my Thunderbolt into a starboard swing and let loose a burst at the guy, but didn't hit him. My nerves at the time were not conducive to accurate gunnery.

[James Holland]

Okay, you can do John Dantil for now. Okay, you do much better than me. He's definitely got an Italian twang.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. And then he has a clear shot and presses the firing button, but. But discovers he's out of ammo. I mean, this is all what I. The thing is, as he says in that previous clip, in the time it takes to say it, this is all happening at a breakneck speed. So you have to be flying as reflexes. You have to not be thinking, oh, you know, to execute that. To execute that turn, I need the requisite revs and all that. You can't be thinking like that. And he now sees the lead pilots about to attempt a deflection shot, which is just really, really.

[James Holland]

You're aiming ahead.

[Al Murray]

Basically, the idea is that, yeah, you've. He then flies into the fire.

[James Holland]

For those who shot a pheasant.

[Al Murray]

Yes, yes. That's that thing of. Yes. A pheasant shooting. We shoot ahead because the bird will fly into the. Into the shot.

[James Holland]

Yes.

[Al Murray]

So he thinks, well, this guy must be pretty good, actually, if he's. If he's trying to pull that off. And he said. And he mumbles to himself at the cockpit. Done. Hold on to yourself. Keep yourself Steady. And you'll get out of this. All right. Don't panic, Don. I mean, you know, what do you people want? Listening and watching. Listening to her. Watching this. And he's thrashing around his plane to try and dislodge the dodge. This deflection shot.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

Suddenly he's inverted.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

Upside down. He's brushing the tops of the trees.

[James Holland]

He's going through the gamut of all his moves.

[Al Murray]

300. He's doing 300 miles an hour. Manages to flip back, come out of being inverted, which is a smart move because he's actually now flying alongside the. The Wolf. So the guy can't shoot him.

[James Holland]

Can't shoot crowd.

[Al Murray]

And he's on the. He's on his radio. Help. Help. I'm being clabbered. And. And then there's a reply on the radio. Would the individual with his screaming vice please give up his call at us and tell us his exact position as to altitude, longitude and latitude, which is very strong because. Because just yelling on the radio is no good. Is no good to anybody. Yeah. Is it? You need to know who you are. And he can't reply to this because he's focused on the. On the Focke Wulf pilot.

[James Holland]

He's flying for his life.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. And that the German then turns into gen. Into gentle. But he. He does the same, which reduces the opportunity to shoot for the German, because remember, he's got no ammo.

[James Holland]

Got no ammo.

[Al Murray]

He's got no ammo.

[James Holland]

So this is. This is all about his skills as a pilot.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. Yeah. And he resets alongside him like before. The German does the same thing. Resets.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

Tries to turn and shoot again. And this goes on for about quarter.

[James Holland]

Of an hour, which must have seemed like an eternity.

[Al Murray]

Just a pure attending. Well, or did it go off court of. Now we. You know. How does he know? I mean, this will be one of those moments in life where you've really no grip on how long things are going on for. Or, you know, will it ever end. You're in it in an eternal.

[James Holland]

What Gentile knows is he can't escape him. He can avoid him. He can avoid this guy's bullets, but he can't escape him. So what he's got to do is just wear him out. He's got. He's got to wear out the Germans fuel. We've got to wear out the Germans ammo.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

And then he'll be okay. But, but, but this is a. This is a life and death struggle.

[Al Murray]

Exactly. And that's exactly what happened. He used up his last bullets and then went home. And I claim, with a great surge into the sky. I mean, come on. I mean, and then do you know what he does that's pulling away from the Death Star, That's. He's the Miller, he's flying the Millennium Falcon, I mean, and everything all at once. All your. All your cliches are here. Available.

[James Holland]

Don Gentile.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, evidently. And watch the damn busters. Anyway, he then gets back to Debton, he's exhausted, he's euphoric and he's become an ace is the thing. He's got his score for ace score, which is a. A thing he had his heart set on since he first came to England. And he's buoyed by his resilience. Show me me what I had learned and it taught me what I was after it. I felt there was no Joyman available after I felt there was no Joyman alive anywhere who could keep me from killing him when I had an even break in the fight, or if the break went against me and he got them all, I felt I could keep him from killing me. I mean, that's confidence right there, isn't it?

[James Holland]

Yeah, damn right.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And his crew chief meeting him at the wing, said, boy, are we glad to see you, Captain. We heard you were a goner.

[James Holland]

We heard you were a goner.

[Al Murray]

It's all there.

[James Holland]

Hot dang. There you are, Captain. Yes.

[Al Murray]

And the pilots make up a song about him in the fourth. Make up a song about. Yeah, about Don Gentles.

[James Holland]

I don't know. To the tune of Tramp, tramp, Tramp I don't know the boys are marching but I don't know what the tune of Tramp, tramp, tramp the boys are marching Watching these.

[Al Murray]

Well, the words are. And maybe someone could send this in singing along to it. Help. Help. I'm being clobbered down here by the railway track 2 190s chase me round and we're down near to the ground Tell them I got two if I didn't make it back and it becomes.

[James Holland]

A Debton scene theme song.

[Al Murray]

Oh, God.

[James Holland]

The other Don's all for it.

[Al Murray]

I mean, this is all heartwarming, warming, stirring stuff. So with the Debton theme song ringing in our ears, we're going to take a quick break and we'd be back with Big Week. Cena Tick us strategic bombing strategy and its accompanying strategy, which is to bring. Bring the Luftwaffe out, defeat it in a massive raid. In a big battle.

[James Holland]

Yes.

[Al Murray]

To have a big battle with the Germans.

[James Holland]

It's very much a series of races concentrated around the world.

[Al Murray]

It's very much the American way, is to bring the opponent to battle and defeat him on the battlefield, whichever one it might be, have a titanic struggle and then you essentially don't hear from him again. And they need to do this to clear the decks, clear the air, get air supremacy.

[James Holland]

Well, the clock is ticking the wrong.

[Al Murray]

By the time. By the time D Day comes around, which is planned for May, as we all know, will be in June.

[James Holland]

So they need to have that. They need to have established this air superiority really by the sort of middle of April.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, well in advance.

[James Holland]

And so they come up with Operation Argument, which is this sort of concentrated round the clock with Bomber Command. They'll do the night stuff, Americans will do the day stuff and just absolutely Hammer aircraft plants Hammer the Luftwaffe when they come up in, inevitably to take, you know, to do the defense and cause as much damage as they possibly can. And this is originally planned for November and then, you know, the weather's not good enough. Then December comes, still not good enough. January is. The whole of Europe is. Is whited out with snow and freezing weather and low cloud and, you know, as we've mentioned many times, weather's always really bad, winter, et cetera, et cetera. And it's not until the third week of February 1944 that there is a. The weather men. Men seem to think there's a sufficient window. And so suddenly Operation Argument, which becomes known as Big Week, is on. And it's worth just having a very sort of. We've talked about Big Week in the past, but let's just have a very, very quick recap because the 8th Air Force has now got about 1000 bombers, almost as many fighters and 100 plus P51 Mustangs. And it kicks off on the 20th of February. Four fighter groups, Thunderbolts are responsible for withdrawals support of the B17s because although they've got their first Mustangs, they haven't properly actually been. Yeah, they're becoming Egyptian drabs. So they're still on the. On the Thunderbolts and they're responsible for withdrawal of Sport of the B17s returning from their first bombing mission to Leipzig. So it's a double hit on Leipzig on that first day from Bomber Command and then, then the 8th Air Force.

[Al Murray]

And there's a huge dogfight, a massive dogfight. But the core part is. Yeah, of a thousand bombers, only 21 are lost. When you compare that with October only only four months previously, the Schweinfurt raid where.

[James Holland]

Yep.

[Al Murray]

You've gigantic losses, 600 air crew killed. You. It's a mass. It's a huge shift.

[James Holland]

Yeah. And they hit the four assembly plants at Leipzig very badly and they particularly caused a lot of damage to machine tools, which is, you know, the machine tools are the things that actually make. Make the bits that you need for your bombers or whatever. And they're very, very expensive to make and they're very complex bits of equipment and they're very hard to replace. So that's good news.

[Al Murray]

I mean, it's as direct an attack on the German war effort as you can make.

[James Holland]

Yes. So Jim Goodson leads that one. The next day, 4 Fighter Group again in action with the bombers. This is Monday 21st February, and it's Blakeslee who's leading the Thunderbolts this time a new escort mission which is targeting factories in the Brunswick and Deepholz area and other aircraft storage parks. So they cross the Dutch coast, rendezvous with the B17s of the 4 Combat Wing 25 minutes later. And Blakesie also leads the 334th Squadron to investigate some contrails while the rest of the fighter group stay with the bombers. And they don't fire anything, but they do bounce 15 focke Wulf 190s and shoot down four on their return with no losses. So that's a good day.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah. And then on the 24th, the Thursday, I mean, it's rinse repeat, isn't it? Yeah, essentially. And a fourth fighter group covering the withdrawal of first Division after their raid on Schweinfurt. So, so they're phasing the escorting as well.

[James Holland]

And remember what's happened at Shrinefurt the last two times?

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, and they meet at Coblentz on the ride at about 1400 hours and, and they're bounced by by Focker Wolves which are attacking the bombers head on. And Gentile leads the 33 6th in a charge straight towards him, another head on thing. And so the melee, the melee commence.

[James Holland]

And what happens just before they collide?

[Al Murray]

Well, the Germans break, don't they? Yeah, because they've not had that, they've not had the memo, have they?

[James Holland]

They've earned their extra pay.

[Al Murray]

And, and, and so Gentile shoots one down and, and, and what, what's interesting is that this week the American plans contrition that things, things fall into place and set the tone really for the rest of the air war. Yeah, it works.

[James Holland]

Yeah. And on that one, on the 24th of February Gentile follows another Focke Wulf down. Shoots it down.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah. The 25th. It's, it's Regensburg. Regensburg. You know, a number of these, these sort of scenes of disaster.

[James Holland]

Yeah, previously.

[Al Murray]

And this is B. Beeson, who's flying with a few. 3:30, 33 fourth. I don't know. 3:33 fourth. There's massive dog fights.

[James Holland]

Yep.

[Al Murray]

He shoots a beast and does. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He follows, follows someone down into the town. Essentially closes to 100 yards on a, on a German aircraft. I mean the thing is, is they're all, they're all really in the thick of it.

[James Holland]

Gentiles in action again.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Holland]

Leading a section to bounce some more wolves picks out one, opens far from 400 yards, closer to 300 then to 75.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it, and, but it works. The point is it works these in the, the Germans don't have an answer. And at the end of operation argument, the 8th Air Force spokesman claims and he. With a, you know, and he's allowed, he's allowed to slightly overclaim here. I think he says, we believe we have fighter production down to the point where the Nazis can't keep up with the losses. We can't help but feel that joining has lost our last hope of maintaining a successful defense. He's not quite right because fighter production in 1944, it's lots of pilots.

[James Holland]

That's the biggest.

[Al Murray]

Exactly. That's the point. That's actually the point. The, the, the, the, the, the thing the Germans are actually burning on this is pilots.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

Pilots are expensive. They take ages to train.

[James Holland]

They do as much, they lose as many in, in just, just taking on it off the, off the ground and crashing.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah. Because people are inexperienced. And 70% of targeted aircraft factories are destroyed. 700 109s me, 109s are written off after damaged to the bombing of the Messerschmitt works in southern Germany. In Leipzig, night fighter production is wiped out with a new radar and production of Ju88s is slashed by half. So, and the cost of The Americans is 28 fighters. The Germans lose over 500. I mean that's a, it's a ratio.

[James Holland]

Of 18 to 1.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, that's.

[James Holland]

And if you want any, there is no better example of the quantitative and qualitative advantage that the Americans now have.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you can, you can take every single one of your. Oh, the, the Germans made really great planes arguments and, and, and stick it in your cocked hat.

[James Holland]

Right?

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

Oh, yeah.

[Al Murray]

They had really Great planes, though. So. So what?

[James Holland]

Yeah, I mean, they are. Germans are. Do continue to produce vast numbers of fighter planes. I mean, they produced 2, 6, 72 just in March. Yeah. And in July they're producing 4219. But they haven't got enough pilots to fly them, you know, and they are, as you say, it is. It is about the absolutely rapidly diminishing quality of the. Of the Luftwaffe.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. But they're going to build a jet before anyone else. Come on. The Germans. Really clever.

[James Holland]

Yeah, yeah. Anyway.

[Al Murray]

I mean, no, they make a jet for everyone else.

[James Holland]

Hey, really good idea. We're gonna make a comet.

[Al Murray]

They've got rockets.

[James Holland]

It's got rockets. Gonna blow everyone up. Yeah, yeah, whatever. They're not as good as the two dons. Yeah, that's all I'm saying.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. What this basically means is that all of the American advantages are are playing to the American advantage and Germany's weaknesses are playing to her disadvantage.

[James Holland]

Yes, exactly.

[Al Murray]

It's a proper sea change in the. In the air war.

[James Holland]

But. But hot on the heels of Big Week comes the, you know, concerted effort to sort of. Berlin.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

So this is the beginning of March. March, and on the 4th of March, 1944, the 4th Fighter Group becomes the first fighter group to escort American bombers over Berlin. You know, Blakesley likes being the first to do things. And of course, it's led by Blakesley. You know, he is commanding over 100 Mustangs flying with bombers.

[Al Murray]

Well, and this. The appearance of Mustangs over Berlin. And I think Will. This says everything is. Herman Goering is reported as saying, oh.

[James Holland]

Yeah, this is me. I'm going.

[Al Murray]

You're going? Yeah.

[James Holland]

Yes. Then I saw the Mustangs over Berlin. I knew the jig was up. Scheisser, I should say.

[Al Murray]

Yes.

[James Holland]

He's not lying.

[Al Murray]

I almost dropped my morphine.

[James Holland]

I almost dropped my. Eddie. Eddie, come to me. So anyway, the Mustangs have been swarmed by Luftwaffe fighters on the. 4th March over Berlin. So the 4th take a more aggressive attitude thereafter.

[Al Murray]

And they're back two days later. It's. The thing is that it's. Again, the idea is to keep coming back to create a climactic battle and the weather's improving, so they can do this. And the Luftwaffe, I mean, if you're the Luftwaffe, you have to defend Berlin. You've got your. He's got no option.

[James Holland]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway. Raid of the sixth. Four fighter groups credited with 13 victories. Jim Goodson does well. Gets a couple fights of several enemy fights until his. His ammo runs out and is subsequently awarded the Distinguished Service Cross for this one. Yeah, so that's good. Also on this mission, Blakestie has, has been leading the 335th squadron down straight away. Goodson, now commander the 336th follows to give cover while the 334th are flying top cover. And they come in behind them. And Goodson then takes his squadron in as close as possible bass to yell to his own sections to break as yet more enemy aircraft dive in on them. And Goodson's shot down an ME109 and is climbing back up into the fray behind the last box of bombers they're protecting. And through the screaming and crackling of the RT he hears someone say, shut Blue, Yellow four, I'm being hit. And this is followed by the slow monotone Texan drool. Bregad Alef, Yellow four, I'll have him off you right quick. And moments later Goodson hears the same drool saying, yellow four gets stuck in on my wing. The rest of you guys follow me back over the last box of bombers to cover them out. Of course, this is Vic France. Hey. He's back in the scene. And the great thing is later in the bar, Goodson finds him and thanks him. And France's France is smoking a cigar, shifts it in his mouth and just goes, forget it. Dabbles off.

[Al Murray]

Come on. You know, JR producer off camera just asked is he wearing a 10 gallon hat as well?

[James Holland]

Of course he is, of course he is.

[Al Murray]

And enormous cowboy boots go up to his knees. Yeah, it's got spins on. He's had his, he's had his Mustang adapted so he could fly it where.

[James Holland]

Yeah, exactly.

[Al Murray]

And then on the 8th, there's another raid on the 8th.

[James Holland]

Yes, there is.

[Al Murray]

And Don Gentile and Johnny Godfrey, this is where they, they're teams and they're, they're kind of. The fact they're sympathico to each other really comes in, they destroy six aircraft between them.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

And, and, and take turns as wingman and leader.

[James Holland]

So. Yeah. Yeah, it's amazing.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. This is when Godfrey becomes an ace and Gentile reaches 14 hits to become tied with B. Beason as the group's leader. So these guys are, these guys are really in into it, aren't they? However, I mean, the thing is, is there are big losses on both sides because, because it's, it's Berlin, you know.

[James Holland]

They'Re outnumbered even, you know. Yeah. And it's.

[Al Murray]

And also the longer the sortie, the more opportunities there are for the Germans to attack you. So you Know they can send up fighters when you're on your way to Berlin.

[James Holland]

Well, it's the same principle of the Luftwaffe going up the leg of Kent.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

You know, being pecked all the way. Well, it's the same kind of thing. Yes.

[Al Murray]

Because the Germans do have an air defense system by this stage of the war.

[James Holland]

Very much so. Yeah. Based on the same British methods, but more. Slightly more sophisticated.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. So the Americans. The Americans, to meet the fact that they're taking more losses, increase their number of fighter escorts. Although Thunderbolts are also being swapped out for the Mustangs.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

Which means you can. You can get to Berlin and you can enforce air superiority over the German capital.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

And force the Germans into fighting you.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

And force them into losing.

[James Holland]

And then, by the way, do some strafing of some. Some airfields on the way back.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. Yeah.

[James Holland]

Because you get to, you know, when you're going to Berlin, back a few times, you soon start to realize where all the airfields are and where. Where the dangerous flak is, and you just dodge it.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. So, Jim, would you argue, therefore, that the Mustang is the most important warplane ever built?

[James Holland]

Yes. Most consequential.

[Al Murray]

Okay.

[James Holland]

I think it's got to be. Well, it's certainly the most consequential fighter plane, I would say.

[Al Murray]

Right. Okay.

[James Holland]

You know, it changes everything. It change. It changes. Creates that air. It clears the. Gives them air superiority over the whole of Northwest unit.

[Al Murray]

I'm just going to patch the fabric on my. My hurricane. Hurricane, sadly, with a single tear rolling down my cheek.

[James Holland]

Did you know there's like hurricane shot down more?

[Al Murray]

Exactly what I was going to say. Yeah.

[James Holland]

I knew that.

[Al Murray]

I'm in a Polish squadron as well. Before we forget about that.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

And did you know the polar. The polls really were amazing in the battle.

[Al Murray]

Yes. In the film.

[James Holland]

They're in the film and no one ever mentions it.

[Al Murray]

They're in the film. They're in the movie. There's a whole sequence about them in the film.

[James Holland]

No one ever remembers the polls.

[Al Murray]

Oh, God.

[James Holland]

But guess what? I mean, what is. What is quite joyous about this is we're reintroduced to an old friend of Battle of Britain days.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

No longer Oberst Beppo Schmidt. It's now General Beppo Schmidt.

[Al Murray]

He got his promotion.

[James Holland]

He's now commander. Can you believe it? Won Jagged Corps fight. What for the 1st Fighter Corps.

[Al Murray]

Thing is Beppo Schmidt, Right.

[James Holland]

He's a survivor.

[Al Murray]

He's a. Well, he's a survivor. Yes. Because everything he touches turns to crap. Right. And yet he's, he's, he's, he disproves the Peter principle, which is the idea that you get promoted one above your capability. He's like 10 above his capability.

[James Holland]

Well, actually he's quite good in this role.

[Al Murray]

All right.

[James Holland]

Yeah. I would argue. I think he's actually found his.

[Al Murray]

He's found his. Finally found his level.

[James Holland]

He's found his level. Yeah. And anyway, he very sagely points out that in numbers as well is in technical performance, the daytime fighter units assigned to German air defense activity are used inferior to the American fighter aircraft forces spawn the money.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. But I, I just don't want to have to tell the boss.

[James Holland]

Please don't let me tell cooking and pass me the schnapps.

[Al Murray]

But I mean that this means that the Luftwaffe are being attrited to use a word that will only ever be heard on the Second World War podcast.

[James Holland]

I like that.

[Al Murray]

Well, maybe a First World War podcast.

[James Holland]

The word I don't like is. I don't like, like the noun task being turned into a verb.

[Al Murray]

No, I don't like that either.

[James Holland]

Tasked. I don't like that word. I've never liked it. I've absolutely refused to have it in.

[Al Murray]

Any books I ever write the spell checker in.

[James Holland]

But I do think a triggered is fine.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. But in word, the spell checker doesn't like attrition. It underlines it in with the red wiggle.

[James Holland]

No, I don't care.

[Al Murray]

But on 16 March, for instance, the fourth attack measures it 110 from the Gestora Wing 76. 21 of 43 aircraft are shot down over on Williamsburg. That's not a fair fight though, is it? No one. Oh, against Mustangs? No, that's, that's, that's mean.

[James Holland]

And who's coming to the four at this point?

[Al Murray]

Well, this is Kid Hoffer.

[James Holland]

Kid over. Yeah.

[Al Murray]

He's building up his reputation and he's got this lone wolf reputation. He goes out.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

Strikes out on his own, splitting from the group.

[James Holland]

Very like George Burling.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. Yeah. On the 18th of March, during escort over Bavaria, he splits away from the group and independently destroys two ME 109s and makes an emergency landing back in Kent because He's only got 6 gallons of fuel left. So he's been having a final.

[James Holland]

It sounds like quite a lot, but it's not.

[Al Murray]

It's not. No, that's. That's pure fumes for a Mustang. Yeah. Yeah. And despite him is, you know, increasing victories. He does rub people up the wrong way because he's Got poor radio disability really bad.

[James Holland]

He's a lone wolf.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

Just does what he wants.

[Al Murray]

Jim Goodson recalls a long mission to Munich. In a spontaneous breach, the radio silence that you had to adhere to, a voice goes, gee, ain't the Alps pretty?

[James Holland]

What does Blakesy say to this? God damn it, Hofer, shut up.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, so there you go, the poor radio discipline all round. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but that, but the thing is though, as we, as we said, one of the, one of the things that Doolittle wants people to do is not just escort the fighters, but roam free strike targets of opportunity.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

And this is the thing that becomes part of the. The American fighter effort. Yeah. Parked aircraft in particular.

[James Holland]

Yes.

[Al Murray]

Finding Luftwaffe stations, shooting up anything. Shooting anything that moves. Yeah. And.

[James Holland]

And John Godfrey's answer.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, he's into this.

[James Holland]

He's a demon at this.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Holland]

So on a single mission over Berlin, he shoots down three planes. He shoots up three planes on the ground, damages a further three and also attacks eight locomotives. I mean, why not?

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

In another mission he destroys four ju52s, which are these transport planes.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

Very precious for the Germans apart in a German airfield in one guy just go straight across and brings up his hit score to 36, which is the highest in the entire United States Army Air Force at this time. I mean, that for ground attack planes. I mean, I'm sorry, attacks of planes on the ground.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, I mean, they get bang for the buck, aren't they? Yeah, it's the thing.

[James Holland]

It doesn't matter whether it's in the air or on the ground, it's an aircraft, it's not going to trouble you anymore.

[Al Murray]

Exactly.

[James Holland]

And, you know, attacking the ground, obviously this is about the sort of attrition.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[James Holland]

It's about grinding them down. And also, you know, it is. There is something peculiarly hard on the morale if you're on the receiving end of this. You know, you've just been sweating your nuts off up in the sky and you come back down and Mustang pills often shoots you up again. Yeah, that's not what you want. I mean, these guys by this stage also, they're dusting by the spring, they're starting to get the P51Ds, which are the sort of bubble canopies of this next generation P51s. They're getting rid of the old camouflage. They used to be painted green, now they're just silver. Yeah, they look absolutely amazing. They've got all the different patterns on them now. Most of them are kind of painting Their kind of mascots on the front and swastikas and what have you. And down on the ground these guys are swanning around with a hell of a swagger. Yeah. Which is born of, of self confidence, born of the fact that they just are in the elite. They, they just are. The fact that they're fighter pilots means that they've got, they've attained a level of sort of, you know, they've got a higher IQ and all this sort of stuff from a lot of the grunts on the ground and doughboys and all the rest of it. They've got their cool A2 leather jackets. Yeah. You know, which you can still buy to this day. Yeah. You know, and they, they just look sharp and they know they look good.

[Al Murray]

Good.

[James Holland]

I haven't got one, by the way.

[Al Murray]

I, I know, I know.

[James Holland]

Nor do I want one.

[Al Murray]

I mean the, the, the, the thing is though, I mean we, we've talked about people being successful, but there are guys getting shot down though.

[James Holland]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Al Murray]

They are still suffering losses.

[James Holland]

Yes.

[Al Murray]

And, and Goodson thinks actually it's, it's.

[James Holland]

It'S lucky one way.

[Al Murray]

They're lucky. It's lucky. Yeah, yeah. Because there weren't bodies or funerals. They were just weren't around anymore. Yeah. And even our cast of characters are not invulnerable, not immune.

[James Holland]

Yep. So 18th of April, they're flying deep into the Reich yet again because they're in Mustangs. They're always going to be doing the long range stuff. They're doing longer flights which are more stressful, more physical strain as well as mental strain. And they're up somewhere over Magdeburg when Blakesy tells them over the rd. Everybody out. So they're all turning for home when France comes over the radio and goes, there's a bunch of 109s on the rear four and reckon we'll go back and help out. So Goodson sees this too and wheels around and he goes, I'll cover you, Vic. But we're low on ammo and damn low on gas, so break off as soon as you can or you won't make it back. Do you want to be friends?

[Al Murray]

Yeah. Well, if I don't, tell my girl so long from me.

[James Holland]

Goodson. Which one?

[Al Murray]

All of them.

[James Holland]

Hollywood. Hollywood. Hollywood. Hollywood. Hollywood. Hollywood. Anyway, so a fierce dogfight then follows, but the fort is hit, the fortress is hit and, and, and Goodson watches it duly peel off and sort of spiral off into its, its death dive. But Vic France had beat, you know, so he'd been unable to save it, although he had shot down one and saved his own wingman. Then he said, the rest of you guys go home.

[Al Murray]

I'm gonna get that bastard.

[James Holland]

And Goodson tells him to break off, but Franz says, not this baby. So the 109 is split essing all the way down to the deck. And France follows. And Goods to sees it and thinks he should follow, so he does. And Airframe is absolutely shuddering. The controls are stiffening. I mean, you know, when you're diving like this, you. You're really pushing the needle off the clock. You're doing. You know, this is well over 450 miles an hour, possibly even 500 miles an hour, and France is below him. And Goodson says to him, pull out, Vic, pull out, God damn it.

[Al Murray]

I'm hitting him. I'm gonna get him.

[James Holland]

And he does, he does get him. And the 109 crashes in a great ball of flame. But a second follows straight after that. And that is France going straight into the ground around.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

And that is that, that. That is the legendary fig.

[Al Murray]

France.

[James Holland]

Yeah. And actually afterwards, Goodson goes to see some of his girlfriends to tell him the bad news. And they go, you know, do you think that. Do you think he's in heaven? And, and one of the girlfriends, Audrey, says. And says, well, if it is, it's gonna be one hell of a show. It's going to be one hell of a show. Come on. Heck of a show.

[Al Murray]

Believable. Yeah. Yeah. But this means by the 31st of May, which is a week before D Day, because Overlord has moved to June for shipping reasons.

[James Holland]

Yep.

[Al Murray]

Rather than s. Purity reasons. But we, but so on schedule, in effect.

[James Holland]

Well, on the. By the 27th of May, 1944, they. The closest enemy fighter plane that they. That the Allies come up against is 500 miles from the Normandy beaches.

[Al Murray]

Yeah.

[James Holland]

So job done.

[Al Murray]

Yeah. And by the end. And by the end of the month, the, The Luftwaffe day and night fighter strength is 2,686 aircraft against 16,956 allied bombers and 25,416 allied fighters.

[James Holland]

Yeah.

[Al Murray]

Give up. Come on, we're back on this old. Oh, David, you know, what are you doing? Long term, Long term listeners will know. Stop. Stop is often the crowd.

[James Holland]

But it's okay because, Because Hitler's going to send in a thousand fighters and.

[Al Murray]

They'Ve got a jet coming.

[James Holland]

They can make a jet and they've got a comment.

[Al Murray]

Exactly. And this means this isn't, this isn't air superiority. This is air Supremacy.

[James Holland]

Yes.

[Al Murray]

Particularly in the Overlord beaches. And you know, the Luftwaffe will turn up. Night can do stuff that can be annoying and difficult to deal with, but it means that the scene is set for the invasion of Europe.

[James Holland]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And while it might be the 9th Air Force, which is the tactical part, which is going to be directly supporting the invasion, this is the invasion of France. This is the invasion of Normandy. Everyone's involved in this. So that means four fighter group might be part of the strategic air forces, but they're going to be playing a part as well. And, you know, they've been escorting bombers over the Pas de Calais area. This one time when they go over and there's bad. Of bad weather and they're struggling to see. Bombers are struggling to see anything, let alone hit the target. And one time a bomber pilot asked Blakesley over the radio, he goes, can you tell me where the target is? And Blakesley responds, did you hear that son of a bitch Ask me where the target is, the numbskull.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah, but this means. This means that the, the fourth are ready for the invasion and the, the air show that's going to accompany that.

[James Holland]

Yes.

[Al Murray]

And they're, they're not enjoying these boring escort sorties. But this means that they're obviously, obviously what happens is that. That everyone thinks the invasion's imminent. It's going to be today. They must wake up every morning thinking, it's today. It's got to be today. Any. Any sort of 40 that or mission that they're brief for. This has got to be it. This has got to be it. Yeah, it's got to be now. Perfect conditions, which, which means lots of false alarms. So. But on 5 June, Debton is sealed as a base. Only official monitored calls can be made. The father of the waitress working at the base calls in to ask why his daughter would be staying at the station and is told. Not why you think, But Blakesley is summoned to a briefing where Major General Kepner rolls out invasion maps and announces.

[James Holland]

Gentlemen, the invasion begins tomorrow.

[Al Murray]

There we go. So the fourth Fighter Group have been instrumental in clearing the skies not only only over Germany, but it's all about France, making that possible for the invasion of Europe. And we've talked on other podcasts before, particularly when we talk about the Italian Theater about that, the. About the, you know, supremacy of Overlord in Allied thinking and planning and execution. And here's an example of exactly that. Yeah, that, that to invade successfully, you need control of the sky. So what you do is you make the Germans fight in Germany. Yeah. Because you're never going to get the Luftwaffe to turn up in France.

[James Holland]

No.

[Al Murray]

In the same way. Yeah. So you, what you knit. Yeah. So what you need is an aircraft that can do it. It Crews that can execute that in the aircraft. And that's what the fourth Fighter Group, that's the, I mean the, the. We'll see what, what comes.

[James Holland]

Well, the interesting is because. Because Hubzemka's 56 fighter group, they're always on Thunderbolts. Yeah, yeah. You know this, this is why the fourth are the daddies. Because they do the long range stuff.

[Al Murray]

And because they've got.

[James Holland]

Don. Don. Kids.

[Al Murray]

Yeah, yeah, exactly, Vic.

[James Holland]

Yeah. And all this.

[Al Murray]

And, and, and they're living their best lives anyways. And we hope you're living your best life too. Listening to this, watching this. We will be back shortly with our fourth part, fourth and final part of the fourth Fighter Group, Warbirds of Liberty.

[James Holland]

We can't call it Warbirds.

[Al Murray]

Yes we can. Well, I'm going to. Thanks for listening. If you want to listen to all these apps ad free and in one digestible lump, then go to our Apple Channel and become officer class or subscribe to the Patreon where all sorts of things are on offer, including early announcements, ticket announcements for our festival, information about regarding the festival, previous festival content as well the talks from the last. We have Ways Fest which are nearly. Are they all up? They're nearly all up. Most of them. Most of them up. Half of them are up. Up. That's not most, is it? But anyway, the point is it's there for you to get into for the price of 3/4 of a pint in central London per month. So we will see you there. Thanks for listening.

[James Holland]

Three quarters of a pint? Please pay a little bit less.

[Al Murray]

Thanks for listening and cheerio.

[James Holland]

Cheerio.

[Al Murray]

Sam.