Podcast
XChateau Wine Podcast
Hosted by Robert Vernick, Peter Yeung · EN
A podcast delivering wine perspectives ex-chateau. Insights, analysis, and perspectives on news and trends in the wine industry beyond winemaking, such as marketing, finance, and consumer trends. From noted wine blogger Robert Vernick (@wineterroir) and leading wine business consultant and author of Luxury Wine Marketing Peter Yeung (@winebizguy), this podcast navigates the business of wine with unique perspectives and insights.
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
17episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
Implementing a luxury strategy w/ Matt Crafton, Chateau Montelena
1w ago00:34:40Tap to summarizeAs one of the winners of the infamous 1976 Judgement of Paris, Chateau Montelena has a rich history to be proud of. To optimize that legacy, Montelena’s President and Winemaker Matt Crafton has been embarking on more of a luxury strategy for the brand, reducing grocery and chain presence and working towards pricing growth over volume. With the 50th anniversary of the Judgement in Paris and the wine market in extreme flux, Montelena is doubling down on the values that made it victorious. Detailed Show Notes: Matt’s background: wine production for 23 years, Economics degree, started at Montelena in 2008Chateau Montelena overviewFounded 1882 in Calistoga, NapaShut down during Prohibition, resurrected in 1972 by Barrett familyFamous for 1973 Chardonnay which won the 1976 Judgement of Paris tasting (50th anniversary in 2026)Mostly produces Cabernet Sauvignon and ChardonnayProduces ~35k cases/yearMajority of $ DTC, volume is wholesaleExport not big, focus of growth last 2-3 yearsA full-time sales team not viable, so moved to partnership with Wilson Daniels as national sales agent beginning Jan 2026Has a Director of National SalesDistributes to all 50 statesTraditionally skewed off-premise, moving more to on-premise; old agency went a lot of chain retailKPIs from 30-40% on-premise to 60-70% on-premise; get out of grocery and be allocated in chain retailWants to use wholesale to build status, get in the right accounts (not necessarily 3 Michelin star restaurants - they don’t move many bottles)Found retail accounts not holding price which would make restaurants and DTC members not buy the winesJudgement of Paris story usageUse social media to get the story to end consumersDavid over Goliath story resonates with peopleNeed to discuss how Montelena still upkeeps the principles and values that led to the winKeeping the story fresh requires mapping today’s actions (e.g. - large replant underway) to the original values (e.g. - curiosity, taking risk)Wine critic influence has waned over last 15-20 years, but scores still have a big impact to certain types of buyersImportant to understand the ripple effects of wholesale decisionsTools to navigate wholesale - pricing, mapping market allocations to market potentialManaging distributors - need to build direct relationships, get people out to the winery to see and feel the brandRelationships critical to navigating a challenging wine marketGoal is to grow through price, not volume Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Transcribe →Navigating the choppy media waters w/ Jason Wise, SOMM TV
3w ago01:14:48Tap to summarizeNearly two decades after filming Somm, Jason Wise, Chief Creative Officer of Somm TV and Director of the Somm movies, has a deep view of wine in the media. Jason shares his perspective on what types of media moves the needle, how to get involved as a brand, the ever changing landscape of media itself. Detailed Show Notes: Update from the last 4 years: filming tons of food & wine content around the world, a couple theatrical releasesSomm TV: video streaming services, partners w/ wineries and wine regions, Jason founded it to not have to ask permission to film storiesA lot of people find Somm TV from YouTubeWine industry evolution (2010-2026): a lot more grapes and too much wine; beginner wine content no longer needed; market needs to sort a few things out; tariffs had huge impact on American wineries (some wineries were 20% Canada)Wine helps create more connection and conversationMedia filming rights have changed a lot, used to have a pay a place to film, now they are happy to be a part of itSideways worked because it was unexpected and was done on its own termsStreaming wars haven’t helped media gain influence, only a few shows that have had an impact (e.g. - Game of Thrones, White Lotus); there’s so much content, it’s hard to break through, now niche is kingNiche segments sometimes just talk to their niche, don’t bring in new audiencesDocumentaries tell stores people didn’t know existedNetflix used to license shows, now they want to own everything, leads to less originality, just make what’s worked beforeYouTube feeds media, creators build a following, then produce more standard mediaWine industry’s role in the mediaNobody wants to watch commercialsHard to push media to do what you want it to doWine should be the drink to push in PR (e.g. - Chateau Angelus in James Bond films has had an impact)Wine cameos in movies can build awarenessWinery engagement with mediaInfluencers are like “maintenance,” believes their influence is waningGet the product in TV shows / moviesNeed the “magic” in the bottle, be known for something (e.g. - Taylor Swift and Sancerre, fans figured it out)Celebrity helps bring a platform if the product had good product-market fit (e.g. - Aveline and Cameron Diaz)Media effectiveness goes in cycle, what works changes over time and circles back; need to try 10 things for 1 to workBelieves regional marketing is criticalPodcasts are part of people’s everyday routine and movies stick with you, TV is like the “bulk wine” of mediaWineries should put budget towards media, spread the money aroundMany wineries have exited sponsorships and are losing consumer awareness Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Transcribe →A discourse in the communications of wine w/ Karen MacNeil, The Wine Bible & Come Over October
Apr 2800:48:12Tap to summarizeAs the wine world stumbles through difficult times (in early 2026), Karen MacNeil, author of The Wine Bible and co-founder of Come Over October, believes part of the disconnect stems from time. The fastness of the modern, social media fueled world and the slowness of wine. Her solution is to focus the narrative of wine with well-being and wine’s long-standing role as a beverage that brings people together. Detailed Show Notes: Karen’s background: author of The Wine Bible, writer, speaker, teacherWorried that a change in culture, to a faster one with social media (took off in 2012 when Facebook hit 1B active users and >50% of the population had smart phones), has left wine, a slower product, behindWhite wine’s appeal may be partly that it implies fastnessWine is slower to create (can take 3-5 years) and to consume (high acid, tannins for reds)Larger selection of beverages may also be competing for wine’s share, including functional beverages that are marketed as “mindful”Wrote an article, “Is wine really in the alcohol business?” on how wine is more than alcohol, but threaded in the culture of food, history, religion, and artBelieves wine should promote the notion of wellbeing vs health, which includes better relationships from sharing wine with peopleStarted Come Over October w/ Gino Colangelo and Kimberly Charles, PR professionals2025: reached 2.9B media impressions, had 1,400 retail store promotions, raised $250kSister campaign is Share and Pair Sundays - to go beyond October, involve food, and help engage more restaurantsAll campaigns need a time, a reason, and a behaviorSeneca Lake Wine Trail doing Share and Pair SundaysTexas Wine Country doing “Come Over October Y’all”Most impactful event was an interview with Pink and sports figures, showing wine connects people across industriesThe wine industry will need to invest to get more people involved, the “Got Milk” campaign spent $23M in the first year Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Transcribe →Getting more sales analytics manpower with AI w/ Jeremy Hart, Somm.ai
Apr 1400:38:21Tap to summarizeThe on-premise side of wine analytics has traditionally been a black hole, not covered by other data services. Somm.ai changed that when they launched in 2021, now covering ~100k on-premise accounts in the US alone. The richness of data allows Somm.ai to help their clients benchmark, prospect for new accounts, and so much more. Jeremy Hart, Co-Founder and Chief Strategy Officer of Somm.ai, explains how it is more manpower vs a platform to accelerate on-premise sales. Detailed Show Notes: Jeremy’s background: restaurants, wholesale, importingTX became a major wine market during ‘08 Global Financial Crisis; it took the allocations from NY and CASomm.ai founding: end of 2019 was originally an app for people to find restaurants with wines they wanted to drink; during the pandemic (2020) pivoted to turning restaurant wine lists into retail shops (sold ~$700k of wine); did some smart menus; 2021 launched current iteration of on-premise sales analyticsCategorizes restaurants, bars, & hotels in US (100k accounts), Canada, Europe (6 countries, Germany largest w/ 3k accounts), Singapore; data updated every 2 weeksJackson Family is longest client - w/ NBA partnership, Somm.ai developed target lists around NBA stadiums to sell into~70 clients of all sizes (many large suppliers, e.g. - Terlato, Vintus, Concha y Toro, wholesalers, importers)General use cases include: Benchmarking vs peers (accounts, placements)Prospecting and lead generation (can see accounts that other distributors cover)Identify brand extensionsHelp with pricingIdentifying sales pitches for national accountsROISome clients have moved up a lot in benchmarking ranksSave money on travel, focused on the right marketsCan save manpowerPricing ~$30-70k/year avg, includes unlimited training and unlimited seats, US and Canada (other geographies are an upcharge)Product roadmap - expanding to more geographies, which can be temporary exclusivity for early partners Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Transcribe →How Young Consumers Embrace Fine Wine w/ Pauline Vicard, ARENI
Mar 3101:15:35Tap to summarizeIt was long assumed that a love of wine runs in the family. Not so, according to new research conducted by ARENI Global on how young consumers get into fine wine. Pauline Vicard, Executive Director of ARENI, gets into the findings of their new study titled “The New Fine Wine Consumer - How People Under 40 Embrace Fine Wine.” From the shrinking middle class to the motivations of wine collectors to what drives women to embrace fine wine, the research and this conversation are chalk full of insights into how wine can attract the next generation of wine lovers. Detailed Show Notes: Fine wine trends (March 2026)A trend towards more collaboration and consolidationEntering the age of precision distribution, after precision winemaking and viticultureShrinking middle class is shrinking the middle sector of wineSome retailers in the UK doing well by changing delivery policy (e.g. - free next day delivery at 1 bottle, new events relevant for new consumers)New ARENI Study: The New Fine Wine Consumer - How People Under 40 Embrace Fine WineStudied several major markets: Paris, London, NYC, Singapore, Shanghai, & Hong KongResearch process: expert led roundtables, questionnaires, & interviews / focus groups with consumers and tradeDid focus groups in Paris & London of wine student groups (e.g. - LSE, Kings College); LSE’s group is 600 members and do 50 events/year with a £400 budget and 50 students attending each oneStudy key insightsPool of fine wine drinkers is shrinking; demographics driven (less young people, wealth concentrating)Routes that create fine wine consumers (e.g. - tech and banking) are replacing internships w/ AIResults very similar across markets (a surprise)It’s friends, not family that drive wine interestComplexity of what’s not understood and the pursuit of knowledge being worthy and fun drives wine interestVisibility and ease of access to wine are importantRestaurants are still important, but the high cost is an issueCollectors are different from buyersCollectors have a reward system (e.g. - dopamine) from the chaseEveryone has a genetic disposition to collect, but activated in 30-35% of the US populationCollecting makes people overbuy, which requires a secondary marketReducing prices after en primeur can erode the trust in the reason to collectThe French have a negative association with being a collectorYoung people often spend ~10-15 hrs/week searching and researching wine when they are collectorsDifferences are bigger between genders than nationality; wine collectors defined when 26-35, when women often start a family or build their career and don’t have the time to collectOnly men reported a benefit from wine knowledge at workEvents are a good way to test if people can be engaged with the brandCollectors learn about producers not regions (Asia different because certifications are important); want to know which producers, why they are important, and where they can be purchasedTo trade up in wine, their community needs to trade up with themNeed to sell a community to drink with, not just the winesWomen historically have less propensity to become collectorsOften have less access to money and drink 3-4x less than menSimilar at the beginning (44% of <25 year olds engaged in wine, goes down to 7% around 40); it’s not an interest problem, it’s a conversion problemWomen overindex in education, events, and the importance of communityThey never ask for a female only space, they don’t mind age or gender, but need to share interests (e.g. - similar spending power and interests)Successful events have thoughtful placement to create connections b/w people, including to be seen by interesting people; requires knowing all the people who comeNext for ARENI: restaurants business models and consumer expectations for fine wine and an update on US distribution Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Transcribe →Exporting Brand Israel w/ Josh Greenstein, IWPA
Mar 1700:33:45Tap to summarizeEven though it has been making wine for nearly 5 millenia, Israel is a wine region still finding its way in modern times. Josh Greenstein, Director of the Israeli Wine Producers Association (“IWPA”), is on a mission to promote “Brand Israel,” which is all about new discoveries. From winemaker stories to creating new grape varieties to mimic the descriptions in The Bible, Israel is making its mark on the global wine scene. Detailed Show Notes: Josh’s background: 5th generation in the wine business, including NY liquor stores and distributionIsraeli Wine Producers Association overview~40 wineries (of 450 total) are membersMission is to promote “Brand Israel”Founded by the Herzog family, of importer Royal Wine CorpFunded by the wineries and Royal Wine CorpIsraeli wine overviewMaking wine for ~5,000 yearsWines were exported to the RomansGrowing Israeli food scene has helpedGrape varieties: Cabernet Sauvignon, Chardonnay, many others including ancient grapes and new grapes, e.g. - Argaman, a genetically engineered crossing of Carignan and Souzao, designed to have a “crimson” color as referenced in The BibleClimate: lots of micro-climates, Mediterranean climate, lots of farmingSoil types: varied, including volcanic, terra rosa, limestoneTends to be tech forward in farming and winemaking practicesWine consumption in IsraelGrowing, consume most of domestically produced wineBig use for religious purposesCreated wine tourism industry to grow wine knowledge in the countryUS is #1 export market by far, majority in the NE (top markets - NY, NJ, Miami (fastest growing), LA, Chicago, TX); followed by Canada, Europe, South AmericaTotal Wine has an Israeli wine section different from Kosher section“Brand Israel”About discovery, stories of the wineries and something differentGood QPRConnects to multiple religions (e.g. - Easter is a large wine consumption event and Easter is about Israel)People often respond saying “Israel makes wine?” (e.g. - at South Beach Food & Wine)All wines in the group are kosher, but kosher is not the focus, just a beneficial attributeJudaism has lots of holiday and events with wine integrated (e.g. - Shabbat)Majority of Israeli wine sales in the US are off-premise, trying to push more on-premiseIsraeli politics can go both ways, some people don’t buy and others want to support Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Transcribe →Finding shared vision & passion w/ Erni Loosen, Loosen Bros
Mar 301:02:43Tap to summarizeDriven by passion, Erni Loosen, Managing Director of Loosen Bros, has spun up countless joint ventures in his career. All with no business plan or goal of making money, but a greater purpose of driving a Renaissance for Riesling and out of passion for Riesling and Pinot Noir. Erni goes into the qualities that make for good partnerships and some pitfalls to avoid. Detailed Show Notes: Erni’s background: Managing Director Loosen Bros, Dr Loosen Estate in Mosel; took over in 1987Loosen Bros overview & history~200 years in the familyOnly Riesling in the Mosel (Dr Loosen)1996 bought Villa Wolf in Pfalz1999 JV w/ Chateau Ste Michelle (Eroica), largest Riesling producer in US2003 founded Loosen Bros USA in Portland OR as an import company for Loosen wines, then imported other people’s wines; desired to have more flexibility (e.g. - deciding on lower margins due to tariffs)2005 Appassionata (OR Pinot Noir)2009 purchased 40 acres in Willamette Valley, planted vineyards, and built winery2015 JV w/ Telmo Rodriguez (a big Riesling fan) in Rioja w/ Lanzaga2017 1st vintage of JV w/ Peter Barry in Clare Valley Australia to see if Oz Rieslings were always limey; tried 3,000L barrels - Wolta Wolta2019 took full ownership of J Christopher in ORBurgundy purchased part of Vieux Chateau de Puligny-Montrachet to start Perron de Mypont and started a negoce2023 founded Dr Loosen Int’l ChinaA great wine starts w/ an idea in your headFor successful JVs, need the right partners with real passion and the same visionNeed to see the spirit from the beginningHas never had a business planJVs are not one way, but learnings on both sides (e.g. - Erni learned how to delay ripening in WA)Erni’s goal for JV’s was not making money, but trying to create a Renaissance for Riesling, which used to be the most expensive wine in the world ~1900, but got a low quality image w/ Blue Nun and LiebfraumilchMost partnerships structured as 50/50 and handshake deals (except Eroica is 40% Loosen, 60% Chateau Ste Michelle, which is also the only contract)Key challenge of JVs are when two visions don’t fit, had one that went bankruptWould love to do an Alsatian Riesling at some point Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Transcribe →Texture and Complexity for Asian Food & Wine w/ Sunny Liao & Philippe Venghiattis, Vinus Club
Feb 1700:44:40Tap to summarizeIf as many Asians drank wine as the average American, we’d have ~100,000 more wine drinkers. And if Asian restaurants had wine lists at the average rate, we’d have ~5,000 more restaurants with wine lists. This is one of the foundations of the Asian Wine Association of America (“AWAA”), whose mission includes bringing wine to Asian cultures, of which food is central. Part of bridging this divide is exploring Asian food and wine pairing. One of AWAA’s board members, Sunny Liao, Co-founder and CEO, and Philippe Venghiattis, Cellar Master of Vinus Club, delve into their extensive experience pairing wine with Asian foods. Detailed Show Notes: Sunny’s background: exposed to wine from 6, wine educator with Lady Penguin in China, Wine MBA, wine consultant for restaurants, board member of AWAAPhilippe’s background: exposed to wine from 3, worked in wine auctions, then went to UC Davis and is a vineyard manager and winemaker as well as operations for Vinus ClubVinus Club is a wine club focused on introducing wine to Asian consumers, including a wine dinner seriesAsian food: texture is a big focus, meals often have a diverse assortment of food at once, often need more than 1 wine to pairWine w/ at least 5-6 years of age are more accessible to a wider array of flavors and spice vs the pure fruit of young wines, more complexity helps for pairingSpicy foods work well w/ wines w/ a denser mid-palate that buffer the alcoholPhilippe’s first challenge with Asian food and wine was at UC Davis with spicy hot potEastern palates tend to be more sensitive to acid and more into texture (e.g. - the texture of Petite Sirah attractive to Eastern palates)Pairing suggestionsAged Alsatian whites (15-20 years old) work well, they have texture, complexity, and mid-palate to buffer the spiceSmargad Riesling w/ a few years of age pairs well w/ Singaporean foodBraised duck and BaroloFlor de Muga Blanco’s aging process adds textureOrange and volcanic wines work for younger winesChampagne w/ a large amount of reserve wineJura wines a natural fit for a lot of categoriesNicolas Joly’s Coulee de Serrant w/ ~15 years of age often pairs well, but also shows a lot of variationHardest pairings: Korean food; often has a hint of sweetness, hard to balance w/ wineIndian cuisine Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Transcribe →Modernizing Wine Collecting Productivity w/ Eric LeVine, CellarTracker
Feb 300:38:36Tap to summarizeWith ~1M registered users, CellarTracker (“CT”) is one of the core consumer apps for wine lovers. When Eric LeVine, Founder & CEO of CT, was last on XChateau in late 2021, they had just taken on investment to expand the business. Eric gives us a rundown of what has happened since, like launching a new mobile app and adding AI features, as well as what is coming down the pipe. Detailed Show Notes: CT now at 1M registered users, with monthly active users +40-50% since 2021Team has grown from ~10 employees during Covid to ~25Launched new mobile app 1.5 years ago (2023)~10k reviews in Apple App Store / Google Play with a 4.9* ratingMore modern, visualFor subscribers: enhanced drinking windows, tasting notes, AI features (chatbot for wines you like, pairings, etc…)3x users registering on monthly basis vs 2021Continue to support old app to be more customer centric and work out bugs in the new appImproved data analytics; overhauled drinking windows, valuation of wines, “what’s poppin” identifying when people are opening winesWinery analytics: trialed with a couple wineriesNo obvious product market fitWineries interested in what other wineries were in cellars with theirsOne CA winery had 40% of their mailing list on CTHistorically did no marketingDoing more social media, email engagementSome paid search, App Store optimization is the biggest driverGet feedback on what improve with Frill, users can vote on improvements needed and pair it with product usage and usage flowsNew features on the horizonStarting in-app notificationsDeveloping research tool to identify what wines to buy and how much to pay (aggregates price data from reports and ~50% of users report price paid)Making AI embedded natively in the applicationAdd via receipt feature automatically adds (using AI) wines to cellar if you email add@cellartracker.comProduct pricingWas early adopter of “freemium” modelPeople were confused by historic “voluntary payment,” only 1/1000 users could say what features are paidAdded more value to paying users (e.g. - drinking windows, AI features; including some things that used to be free), doubled user pay rateSuggesting what to pay is more hidden nowCan get an annual subscription on website, monthly on Apple App Store w/ 2 week free trial (Apple takes a cut and must cancel through Apple)Consumer trendsPeople looking for values (e.g. - they ask “what’s a cheaper version of x?”) and diversity of winesNot seeing a lot of changes in user patterns (e.g. - consumption) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Transcribe →Leading with Vision w/ Arnaud Weyrich & Xavier Barlier, Roederer Estate
Jan 2000:54:39Tap to summarizeAfter 40 years, Roederer Estate, the Californian arm of Champagne Louis Roederer has really started to hit its stride. Arnaud Weyrich, SVP and Winemaker of Roederer Estate and Xavier Barlier, CMO of MMD USA, discuss its history, trajectory, and how Roederer Estate continues to create more reasons to believe in the brand and the wines. This belief is grounded in a vision to make wines that look and taste like Champagne, but with Californian roots. Detailed Show Notes: Arnaud’s background: interned at Roederer Estate (“RE”) in 1993, returned to winemaking team in 2000Xavier’s background: Moet Hennessy, Renault, Disney, then Roederer Marketing & CommunicationsRoederer Estate in contextLouis Roederer founded in 1776, began exporting to US in 1860-70’s1980s - acquired Anderson Valley vineyards and built Roederer Estate wineryMaison Marques & Domaines (“MMD”) founded 1987 for launch of 1st vintage of RE and distribution of Louis RoedererRE founded because during 1980s, not enough Champagne made to supply growing US market and land was cheaper than France; could also do the estate model, which was difficult in ChampagneAnderson Valley had the right weather, track record of other quality, local wines (Chardonnay, Riesling, Gewurztraminer), and inexpensive land (was known for apple orchards)RE production1st harvest 1985 (80s challenged by legal problems for wine w/ sulfite content)Late 80s-early 90s - 40-45k cases Mid-90’s-2000 - ~80k cases (bolstered by French paradox, internet boom, young chefs, and “sommelier” becoming an English word)2025 - ~100k casesLimited by estate model, remote part of CA (tries to attract talent by providing subsidized housing for 90% of staff, invested $3M over last 10 years)CA sparkling historyPioneers supported each other (e.g. - Schramsberg, Domaine Carneros, Iron Horse)Downturn in market (1987 stock market crash, 1989 phylloxera hit vineyards)Market reaction positive, particularly after Schramberg wine served by President Nixon in China at the 1972 “Toast to Peace”RE launch pricingChampagne was priced <$10/bottle in 1980’s, created glass ceiling for CA sparklingRE priced $2-5 below ChampagneRE always wanted to look and taste like Champagne (used same varieties, techniques, including reserve wine)Accolades helped establish a “reason to believe” for consumersRE awarded Wine Spectator Top 100 12x since 1998 (#5 in 2019, #20 in 2024)Roederer philosophy to do “as little marketing as possible”2 types of marketing: 1) consumer focused, doing focus groups and market studies; 2) invisible marketing (e.g. - Steve Jobs), start w/ vision and dream (i.e. - be storytellers)RE is more product driven, not market driven; winemaking makes the wine, marketing tells the storyKeeping the brand fresh after 40 yearsContinue adding reasons to believe for REAs more is learnt about estate, launching new wines - Rose, L’ermitage (vintage, 1989), L’ermitage Rose (1999), Single Vineyards (2020)Single vineyards stem from 600 acres / 100 lots of wine every year; like grower wines in Champagne; wine geeks and sommeliers love it; intimate launch (mostly DTC, some on-premise to create buzz and interest)Create a community (e.g. - Arnaud often in market for tastings), turn consumers into clients and then into fans that tell the brand story to othersPrice of NV Brut has increased from ~$23 to $30 from 2016-2025Be honest, transparent w/ wholesalers (e.g. - labor cost, cost of farming, materials), and give time for changes to work through 3-tier systemNeed accolades and marketing to support the idea that the wine is worth the price (“price fluctuates, value endures”) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Transcribe →