380. The Final Word on Heated Rivalry - Welcome to the Cottage (episode 6)

Summary

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Podcast Summary: You Are Not Broken

Host: Dr. Kelly Casperson, MD
Episode 380: The Final Word on Heated Rivalry – Welcome to the Cottage (Episode 6)
Guests: Dr. Ashley Winter, Rachel Reed
Date: July 19, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode marks the finale of the "Heated Rivalry-a-thon," a six-week deep dive into the miniseries "Heated Rivalry." Dr. Kelly Casperson, joined by Dr. Ashley Winter and Rachel Reed, unpacks the high-emotion final episode ("The Cottage"), explores the show’s impact on sexuality and culture, and shares personal reflections, favorite moments, and quirky side discussions. The trio maintains their signature blend of humor, candor, and sex-positive education, using "Heated Rivalry" as a lens for larger conversations on intimacy, science, societal taboos, and women's health.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Afterglow & Sense of Loss

• The emotional aftermath: All three hosts share a feeling of loss after finishing such an immersive series.
  • “I feel when I watch something this good and I finish it like this almost profound sense of loss that I cannot be experiencing it for the first time again.”
    —Rachel Reed [00:55]
  • “I feel people’s feelings... I become so immersed in these people’s worlds that it is so sad.”
    —Ashley Winter [01:06]
• Looking ahead to Season 2, but grappling with the gap: Discussion about waiting for more content and the challenges of series that outpace their source material (like "Game of Thrones").
  • “Is this going to be the same?” —Rachel Reed [02:12]

2. Cultural Comparison: “Heated Rivalry” vs. "Game of Thrones"

• Contrasting how sex is portrayed:
  • “Game of Thrones used sex for shock value and they used sex as violence. And this is the opposite.”
    —Rachel Reed [02:42–02:50]

3. Behind the Scenes: Urology Conference Anecdotes

• Dr. Winter's candid conference experience:
  • “I was moderating a session that I really was bored with the content. It was all about fighting about the different irrigation that is used during a penile implant surgery... and I was sitting up there just like texting you, being like, how is this real?”
    —Ashley Winter [04:00]
• Meta-moment: Spotlight on how few women are in urology.
  • “We represent about 11% of practicing urologists. So we are really unicorns here.”
    —Ashley Winter [03:53]

4. Dissecting Episode 6 – “Welcome to the Cottage”

• On-location obsession: The hosts geek out about the actual cottage featured in the finale, its rental status, and its transformation into a fan landmark.
  • “Which you can rent for a now exorbitant amount of money, even though it’s Canadian dollars, which is 30% off currently...”
    —Dr. Kelly Casperson [05:10]
  • “It has a five star review, but only one review... booked out through April 2028.”
    —Ashley Winter [06:08, 07:11]
• Narrative quirks & production choices: Why certain scenes were shot at a bar instead of an awards ceremony.
  • “They probably didn’t have a huge budget for this... it was cheaper to just do the bar scene.”
    —Rachel Reed [08:31, 08:39]
• Product placement and memes: Noting the prominent use of Ray Bans, Rolex, and Reebok throughout the series.

5. The Dynamics of Intimacy: Character Analysis

• Slow-burn romance and authenticity:
  • “He holds space for Ilya to be his true self.”
    —Dr. Kelly Casperson on Shane [11:45]
  • Classic, understated lines:
    • “I look forward to relaxing with you. So sexy.” [11:53]
  • The interplay of light and shadow as filmic metaphor for their emotional states.
• Secrets, lies, and emotional vulnerability: Several vignettes on coming out, parental reactions, and internalized shame.
  • “His nightmare was he knew his parents were going to be fine about him being gay, but he felt so guilty that he had lied to them for so long.”
    —Ashley Winter [29:13]
  • “Of course I’m proud of you and I’m so sorry that you felt like you couldn’t tell me this. I was crying.”
    —Rachel Reed [32:08]

6. Sex, Science, and Taboos

• Deep dive into personal histories with sexuality education and professional journeys:
  • “Why can we not talk about this? Was basically... the story of me growing up Catholic.”
    —Dr. Kelly Casperson [14:45–15:18]
• Funny and candid stories:
  • “Yeah, but like, kind of like urologists, we all play with hoses.”
    —Dr. Kelly Casperson recounting a urology residency interview [17:16]
• The group tackles the logistics and humor around sharing clothing as a couple, meal prepping (the hamburger scene), and even the Canadian accent.

7. Representation and Favorite Characters

• Who would the hosts “choose” among the characters?
  • “Oh, Ilya.”
    —Dr. Kelly Casperson [34:58]
  • Universal acclaim for the character Svetlana as favorite female character [35:53]
• Bemoaning some real-life habits:
  • “It breaks my heart that these people smoke cigarettes. Is that, like, a judgmental older sister thing to say?”
    —Dr. Kelly Casperson [35:21]

8. Science Refresher: Genital Changes After Menopause

• Dr. Casperson debunks misinformation:
  • “We have MRI studies showing female genitals shrink after menopause. So I want to discuss that... testicles are smaller... the clitoris is smaller.”
    —Dr. Kelly Casperson [41:59–42:13]
• Rachel Reed explains:
  • “We do sometimes notice more urethral prominence in... postmenopausal women but... that’s a relative bigger because it’s really because the other genital shrunk.” [43:13]

9. Playful Knowledge – Tentacle Erotica and Sex Education

• Group learns about "tentacle erotica," discussing its reach and voyeuristic appeal in Asia and beyond, highlighting the ongoing expansion of sexual knowledge—even for the experts.
  • “The true definition of an expert is one who knows that there’s so much we don’t know.”
    —Dr. Kelly Casperson [46:54]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On finishing a beloved series:
  “I cannot be experiencing it for the first time again.” —Rachel Reed [00:55]

• On portraying intimacy:
  “He holds space for Ilya to be his true self.” —Dr. Kelly Casperson [11:45]

• On the emotional climax:
  “This is my nightmare. And Ilya goes, well, maybe it’s time to wake up.” —Ashley Winter & Dr. Kelly Casperson [30:37–30:44]

• On their scientific approach to life:
  “Why can we not talk about this?” —Dr. Kelly Casperson [15:04]

• Final words on expertise:
  “The true definition of an expert is one who knows that there’s so much we don’t know.” —Dr. Kelly Casperson [46:54]

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Important Timestamps

• [00:54]: The ‘profound sense of loss’ after finishing "Heated Rivalry"
• [02:42]: Comparing use of sex in "Game of Thrones" vs. "Heated Rivalry"
• [04:00]: Boredom and snark at the urology conference
• [05:10]: The real-life cottage: fandom, location, and rental status
• [11:53]: Relishing in the intimacy of “relaxing together”
• [15:04]: Sex education failings in Catholic school
• [29:41]: Coming out, secrets, and parent-child resolutions
• [32:08]: The heartwarming mother-son reconciliation outside the cottage
• [41:59]: Debunking myths about genital changes after menopause
• [45:16]: Invitation to attend the ISSWSH conference (2027)
• [46:54]: Recognizing the value of never-ending sexual curiosity

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Final Thoughts & Episode Wrap-up

The trio reflects on the excellence of the "Heated Rivalry" finale—unanimously agreed as "perfect"—and its positive ripple effects in cultural conversations about sexuality, vulnerability, and representation. They share gratitude for the creative team, muse about relationship logistics and genetics, and set intentions to keep the conversation going through advocacy, science, and fandom—“come for the science, stay for the fun.”

For listeners: The episode is a celebration of meaningful storytelling, sexual health science, and the beauty of talking openly and curiously about pleasure, stigma, and relationships. The hosts end with their trademark encouragement: keep learning, keep laughing, and remember—you are not broken.

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Transcript

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Welcome to youo Are Not Broken, the podcast that challenges everything we've been taught about midlife hormones and sexuality. I'm Dr. Kelly Casperson, board certified urologist, author, and a leading voice in women's sexual and hormone health. Enjoy the show. Hey, everybody, this is it. This is week six, wrapping up of the heated rivalry. Heated rivalry a thon. And if you've stuck with us, fantastic. If you haven't, you're not listening to this anyways. So stay tuned for the normally scheduled you Are Not Broken program after we wrap up today's episode. And for everybody who's a big fan of both us and heated rivalry, thank you. Can we say thank you to Jacob Tierney and author, great children.

[Ashley Winter]

You are the most amazing human beings on earth and you have brought us so much pleasure, joy, intimacy, connection and joyful moments this year.

[Rachel Reed]

Thank you.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Thank you.

[Rachel Reed]

I feel when I watch something this good and I finish it like this almost profound sense of loss that I cannot be experiencing it for the first time again.

[Ashley Winter]

Profound. I couldn't agree more. I feel people's feelings. And so when I feel like I lost, like, I do not. This is why I actually only can watch happy, joyful shows. Like, I can't watch serious, violent or anything like that. But like, I go, I become so immersed in these people's worlds that like, it is so sad.

[Rachel Reed]

I know.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

What are we going to do to keep ourselves busy leading up to season two, which is going to start being filmed I think, end of 26.

[Rachel Reed]

I miss that.

[Ashley Winter]

I'm always open to good shows. I mean, you know, but nothing has hit this. I do think there's some lovely Ted Lasso shows because the guy who made Ted Lasso did his Scrubs remake. He did Shrinking. He did this other show called Rooster recently. All lovely. All lovely shows. Bill Lawrence is an amazing sort of director, writer. Not this. Not heated. Right. Heated rivalry was like next level special.

[Rachel Reed]

I don't know with the books. Like, is this. Is there no books to cover season two?

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

We were waiting for you to read.

[Ashley Winter]

Yeah. Ashley, you're the bookworm. Actually. No, Kelly's the bookworm of the family.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I know, but Ashley started.

[Rachel Reed]

I'm just saying, right, like the downfall with Game of Thrones, right, was that they got past the books and then the books hadn't been finished. And then they had that final season and that destroyed my whole world, that final season. And I'm like, is this going to be the same?

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

So I was talking to my husband about he rivalry and Game of Thrones because we were Talking about how porn is heated rivalry and how. And I was like, well, it's HBO porn with the story, but I think Game of Thrones was more porny than heated rivalry. Discuss.

[Rachel Reed]

Game of Thrones used sex for shock value and they used sex as violence. And this is the opposite.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Ruben, did you watch Game of Thrones?

[Rachel Reed]

No.

[Ashley Winter]

No. No comment.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

No comment. What do you do with Rachel Rubin? I did

[Ashley Winter]

unsubscribe reload. I have nothing to say on this.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

You realize this is a podcast where

[Ashley Winter]

people are listening to your I cannot know everything people. I am a mere mortal. You know, I did not, I did not watch Game.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

The question was, did you watch Game of Thrones?

[Ashley Winter]

And you said, I didn't even listen to the question because I was, I, I, I clicked off the conversations like, oh, I have nothing to add here, so I'm just gonna say goodbye.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Okay, so I'm assuming you didn't watch Game of Thrones.

[Ashley Winter]

Wait, so speaking of how inappropriate an ADHD I am, I was again, as the last episode I said I was at a very busy urology conference of 13,000 mostly male urologists. Let's be real, because the three of

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

us represent the United States of America, possibly 1100.

[Ashley Winter]

We represent about 11% of practicing urologists. So we are really unicorns here.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

But I was so nice to your female urologists people.

[Ashley Winter]

We are the best. I was sitting on stage at a podium session texting Kelly sort of the whole time because I was moderating a session that I really was bored with the content. It was all about fighting about the different irrigation that is used during a penile implant surgery. And every patient versus irrigation. No, it's like this thing called Iricept. That industry has paid lots of money to get people urologists to think it's a good idea. And then it turns out infection rates went way up. And so they went back to their old, old, you know, just normal antibiotic irrigation and infection rates came down. And they were literally fighting about it every other. Like, it was so boring and so clearly just industry like. And all they cared about was this topic. And I was sitting up there just like texting you, being like, how is this real? I, I wasn't paying attention at all to what was actually happening because. Because who is going to get me in trouble? Like, who is going to get mad at me?

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Who's gonna tell on you?

[Ashley Winter]

Who's gonna tell on me for goodness.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Anyway, who are they gonna tell on you too?

[Ashley Winter]

No, I did not watch Game of Thrones, but I did watch episode six of heated rivalry many, many times over. Because it is the cottage, which is finally where we're at. Right. Right in our.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

All of our screensavers. Behind us for audio only listeners is us at the cottage, which is an actual. Which you can rent for a now exorbitant amount of money, even though it's Canadian dollars, which is 30% off currently in America, some.

[Ashley Winter]

One of the 36 people listening is so rich, they're gonna buy us the cottage and then we'll have a party just like we'll have a party with them.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Manifest. I'm gonna manifest other things because we probably could afford a weekend at the cottage. We just don't have effing. We don't have effing time to go.

[Ashley Winter]

Yeah, we're lazy. We're not gonna click on the Internet to do it.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

It's probably eastern Canada. Somebody please Google quickly where the comments are.

[Ashley Winter]

Okay, I'm on it. Okay, you guys keep going because Ashley

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

and I would have to fly over from Vancouver.

[Rachel Reed]

Yeah, I'm just saying there are people who are super fans enough that somebody has commissioned a replica of this. I believe.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I believe that this has happened for sure.

[Rachel Reed]

Oh, I believe that, like, yeah, they're like, that's a cool design. I'm going to make that for myself. Yeah, yeah.

[Ashley Winter]

Okay.

[Rachel Reed]

But I would prefer to be a real one.

[Ashley Winter]

It has. Okay, it only. It has a five star review, but only one review. Six stars.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Where's Ilya?

[Ashley Winter]

The one review, it says you can stay a week or even two. It's so private. No one will know. I. She said the cottage welcomed us on site with gifts and goodies. The cottage is everything you'd hoped it would be. It's a hallmark of peacefulness and luxury. I hope it can mean as much to everyone who comes here.

[Rachel Reed]

Oh, my God.

[Ashley Winter]

It's like a real place. These people are gonna make so much money.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I want to know, like, I want to know the backstory. How did they find this house?

[Ashley Winter]

Probably on Airbnb.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Do you think the TV show people were just on Airbnb looking for an eastern Canada house? I mean, there are people whose entire

[Rachel Reed]

jobs are, like, scouting filming locations. Like one of my good friends, her parents beach house was used for a movie, like a major movie. And it was like, can we talk

[Ashley Winter]

about how much splooge they have to clean up every time they don't bring a book out through April 20th called. Yeah, April 2028. It's booked. It's completely.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

It's booked out through April 2028.

[Ashley Winter]

Yeah.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Fantastic.

[Rachel Reed]

Somebody there, like, refreshing whenever. Like, for month opens.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Because the website doesn't allow more than one year ahead in rentals.

[Rachel Reed]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

It's like the French Laundry of houses. Like, reservations open up and, like, you can't get in.

[Ashley Winter]

It appears to be west of Ottawa by two hours.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Are there snacks on the way if you're hungry?

[Rachel Reed]

There did seem to be a lot of rest stops on the way directions.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

It looked very, very rural Ottawa.

[Rachel Reed]

Yeah.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

So before we get to the cottage, the episode does start with Scott Hunter at the podium accepting, like, the All Star congratulations for winning the Cup. My big question is, why is Kip not at the award ceremony? That's a great question.

[Ashley Winter]

I want to know the answer to that. That is very weird.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Like, did he have a shift at the smoothie place he couldn't get out of?

[Ashley Winter]

He was sitting at the bar with Kyle, the best character of the whole.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

It'd be best in the credits if it said Kyle just said, thank you, Kyle himself.

[Ashley Winter]

Thank you, Kyle.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Kyle himself.

[Rachel Reed]

It makes no sense. It's so dumb. It makes no sense.

[Ashley Winter]

Yeah. He's in love. He talks about how much he loves him. Why wouldn't he be there?

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

The family should be there. Especially if you won.

[Rachel Reed]

They probably didn't have a huge budget for this. The first go around that it would have been too much to like, have the audience see.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

To show an audience.

[Rachel Reed]

It was cheaper to just. Yeah, and it was cheaper to just do the bar scene.

[Ashley Winter]

That's a very reasonable theory.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

That's a theory. Accepted.

[Ashley Winter]

Accepted.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Thank you. Okay, so the next scene is now we see. We see a black suitcase being wheeled towards the black Range Rover. And Ilia is in all black.

[Ashley Winter]

It's nice.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

And somebody. I saw a meme on this. It was like. It was like the longest six seconds of the show because they were just like, why is this so short? We need him in Ray Bans. First of all, product placement. They're both wearing Ray Bans throughout the entire season. Well done.

[Rachel Reed]

Pay attention to that.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Well done, Ray Ban.

[Ashley Winter]

What about Rolex? They talked about Rolex non stop.

[Rachel Reed]

They do, yeah.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

The Wimbledon seats and Reebok.

[Rachel Reed]

They talk about Reebok quite a bit, too.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

They do, yeah.

[Rachel Reed]

That's. One of his sponsors is in the

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

beginning when she's like, don't be seen without shoes.

[Rachel Reed]

Yeah.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

But do they talk about rebounding more than once?

[Ashley Winter]

Ilya looks really good.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Can we talk for a second about all the memes of Connor's story at the Met gala? And so it's basically like people working out to be like, why do I work out? Why work on glutes? Just like, so you can have these shoulders when you take your jacket off.

[Rachel Reed]

But also why even try to have that when you could just look at hints.

[Ashley Winter]

Sorry, I'm just looking at image gallery of episode six.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

We've lost Rachel. She's now watching Game of Thrones.

[Ashley Winter]

No, I'm watching the images on Google of heated rivalry. Sorry, I'm focused.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

So Ilya is dressed in all black, looking hot af. And then he goes into the car and he immediately ribs Shane. So you're like, okay, he's going to start being playful and superficial and like not, not in deep. And he's like, is this a jeep? He's like, no, it's British. It's good in the snow.

[Ashley Winter]

It's practical.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

It's practical. So Ilya is really feeling out Shane about like, because he's like, oh, he's like. Today's episode is sponsored by Midi Health. Perimenopause doesn't announce itself. It just quietly starts affecting your sleep, your skin, your sharp mind and your patients. And then you spend years going from doctor to doctor, primary care dermatologist, gynecologist, and nobody can connect the dots. You get told it's stress, it's anxiety, and my least favorite advice, maybe drink less coffee. Midi Health connects the dots. They're a virtual care clinic built specifically for women navigating perimenopause through menopause. Created by women for women. Their clinicians are hormone trained specialists who actually listen and actually know how to help safe, effective, FDA approved treatments, hormonal and non hormonal, with a care plan built around you and visits are covered by insurance like menopause. Midi Health didn't happen overnight. It was years in the making and thankfully it's here to stay. You are not broken, you're perimenopausal. And MIDI Health gets it. Book your first virtual visit [e-mail] that's join M I D I dot com. Oh, you think we're going to relax? You think that's what's going to happen? And you can see his face again. This speaking with no words. You can see his face shift when Shane stands his ground of like, we're gonna relax. I would look forward to relaxing with you.

[Rachel Reed]

Oh God, I love it. I love the things he says like

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

that he holds space for, for Ilya to be his true self.

[Rachel Reed]

I look forward to relaxing too.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I look forward to relaxing with you. So sexy.

[Rachel Reed]

So sexy.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I think it's super cute. Where he's like, I told my parents I'm away on a meditation retreat.

[Rachel Reed]

Oh, yeah, Silent retreat.

[Ashley Winter]

I had a friend once who lied about a lot of things, and she lied to her parents. She went to Europe to meet a guy who she met at a wedding, and she met this guy at a wedding, and then she went to Europe to go meet him and travel around with him. And she didn't want her parents to know, so she told them she was going on a solo retreat to Yosemite or Yellowstone or something like that. And she spent a week in Europe gallivanting with this person. And then they picked her up at the airport and she actually, like, checked out. Like, checked flights and, like, checked out of customs and, like, then went to, like, the domestic side and, like, just like, like, found a random flight that. Yeah, she, like, what she would go. She was this amazing liar. I don't think she'll get to episode six if she listens to this. But she was a delicious liar for no reason. Like, she just would, like, flat out lie about everything for no, like, logical reason. Like, her parents would have not cared at all and, like, it wouldn't have mattered at all. And yet she goes like, she went that level of a lie, like telling her parents she traveling alone in, like, a national park when she was, like,

[Rachel Reed]

in Europe with some dude.

[Ashley Winter]

That relationship did not work out. I just want to be clear.

[Rachel Reed]

She's actually.

[Ashley Winter]

Yeah, I won't say what she does because that's a HIPAA violation of friendship.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Yeah, well, maybe she's a spree killer. Okay, so we're. We're riding in the car. Any other car comments? It was nice. He holds his hand.

[Ashley Winter]

Just lovely. The hand holding is.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

It's setting up, like, the sweetness of that. Of this whole episode.

[Rachel Reed]

So sweet.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

The, like, reorientation to let's be real now.

[Rachel Reed]

And this is where it really slows down.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

It's all lighter, lots of light play. I don't want to jump ahead, but there's a scene where they wake up together and he says, I like you.

[Ashley Winter]

I like you. Right?

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

And half of their faces are in the shadow, and half of their faces are in the light.

[Ashley Winter]

It's so good.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I very. This is like the. Very briefly, what did I want to do with my life? I thought I would go to Montana State. Bozeman. Or is that. Is that Montana University? Whichever one's in Bozeman. The plan was after high school, go to Bozeman to do cinematography.

[Ashley Winter]

Where did you go wrong?

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I think because I'm insanely. Curious about things that people are uncomfortable talking about.

[Ashley Winter]

And I always have been, like, lighting and penises.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Like, lighting and penises. Why are you not concerned about lighting right now? So I went to Catholic school, and in sixth grade, in the coat room, in the coat room, a boy in my class. His name's Ryan, and I'll not say his last name, but Ryan whipped out a whole sheath of coffee.

[Rachel Reed]

Condoms.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

What I now know to be condoms. And I remember seeing it. It was like a voonk, right? Like a line of condoms. And I remember seeing that and being like, what the is this?

[Rachel Reed]

Right?

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

And then Ryan got in big trouble for bringing condoms to sixth grade coat room. And I just remember being, like, so curious of, like, what is that? Why. Why is he in trouble about this? And now as an adult, I'm like, why the. Did your sixth grader have condoms in the coat room? Like, what was. Where did they come from?

[Ashley Winter]

What a bad boy, right?

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

And like, so that's why I'm a urologist. Why can we not talk about this? Was basically what I remember of, like, what is this? Why can't we talk about it? Why is somebody in trouble? And, like, that's just like, the story of me growing up Catholic is like, why can we not talk about all this shit?

[Rachel Reed]

How is your sex ed in Catholic school? Like, I went to public school for everything, so I don't know anything about. About this.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Sex is something that happens after marriage, and it makes babies. And at the time it was Pope John Paul. Condoms were definitely not okay meaning in marriage. Like condoms during marriage. I remember was that was like, a bad thing. The other really bizarre thing to me with the Catholic religion is like, where are the women? Like, why do the women have those jobs and the men have these jobs? That was always very confusing to me. Why did my skirt need to touch the ground when I kneeled? Why couldn't my knee be visualized? That was always very.

[Ashley Winter]

I had a very nice knees. I've always thought that about it.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I had a lot of questions. I did. I didn't wear. So I had to wear a skirt and a dress. I did not wear a skirt slash dress until, like, after college because of that. I know I love a good dress now, but I had like, a good half a half a decade.

[Rachel Reed]

You had to detox.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I had to detox, yeah. So it's just like all these questions that I was insanely curious about that made no sense to me. And I was finally, like, got to the point where, like, I could understand that and hang out with people who also wanted to talk about that. And I was like, oh, cool.

[Ashley Winter]

These people.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Let's do this.

[Ashley Winter]

We're a bunch of weirdos. We are a bunch of weirdos.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

And one more urology story. I was interviewing at Denver, which is where I did residency, and during my interview, I was on the way to the chairman's office to do my interview for urology residency, and a fire drill happened. So we all had to go outside because there was a fire drill, but actual fire trucks came, and firemen came, and, like, they had. They were doing their thing, so it wasn't, like, totally real.

[Rachel Reed]

Like, fake.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

And so the chairman and I were standing outside looking at these fire trucks, and he's like, wow, what a cool job being a firefighter would be. And I look at him. I've never met this guy before in my life. I look at him, and I'm like, yeah, but, like, kind of like urologists, we all play with hoses. And then I was like,

[Ashley Winter]

did he love it?

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Yeah. I got. I got my first magic. I went to Denver.

[Ashley Winter]

That's good. That's impressive.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

But, like, that came out of my mouth, and I was just like.

[Rachel Reed]

Were you thinking, like, cystoscopes, but then instead you. He.

[Ashley Winter]

No, only neurologies. That's, like, extra. That's, like, extra bonus points in urology.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Urethras.

[Ashley Winter]

Yeah.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

So, like, the fact that it came out, and then I was like, oh, there goes it. And then I got. I matched there.

[Rachel Reed]

So I love that.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

That's my story. What else do you want to talk about with.

[Ashley Winter]

All right, so they get to the. They get to the cottage, and they talk about real estate. It's like a theme. They, like, want us to all get involved in real estate. These. These two.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Your real estate fetish really paid off.

[Rachel Reed]

Real estate and ginger ale. That's what they want for us.

[Ashley Winter]

It's really. That's really. It's all. It's all a ploy to get us

[Rachel Reed]

to drink more ginger ale.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

And that's Canadian.

[Rachel Reed]

Sponsored by big ginger ale. Oh, Canadian dry. Canadian dry.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Seagram.

[Ashley Winter]

Seagrams is very upset about this, by the way. Seagrams is, like, really coming up with their other. You know.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

But then Shane makes a note that, like, he built this himself. He did not buy this. This was not a purchased house. This was a designed house.

[Rachel Reed]

Very important. Very important, because he's perfect. So.

[Ashley Winter]

And then they're touring around, Then they start getting all happy on the couch, which is, like, so adorable. They're, like, already canoodling on the Couch. They do a little role playing about. He's like the bellboy, and then he tries to close the blinds. And then it, like, dominant. Ilia is like, no, no. We do this in the daylight. And then it's that, like, just in contrast to all the darkness moments that make you have to squint to see them having sex in the earlier episodes.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I mean, why close the blinds? You're in the woods.

[Ashley Winter]

I mean, because the Canadian wolf birds

[Rachel Reed]

might see, or his dad might walk up, and that also could potentially happen.

[Ashley Winter]

Oops.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Dad, you only have one phone charger. It's possible parents don't have excessive electronic accessories every time. Rachel's been texting us lately her battery. Like, if she'll do a screenshot and text us, the battery's always at red. And so I'm usually like, dude, you still need to charge your phone.

[Rachel Reed]

Some people live like that. It drives me nuts.

[Ashley Winter]

I probably need a new phone. I think.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I, like. I get mad at my phone for failing instead of me being the one who was in charge of actually charging it. I'm like, damn, damn.

[Ashley Winter]

Is your laptop right now?

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Oh, probably four years old.

[Ashley Winter]

Mine's, like, getting, like, six. And I, like, it's kind of slow. And when I get frustrated with how slow it is, I'm like, oh, might be time for an upgrade, right?

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

It might just be time. Okay, so now what happens? We had some sex. We had a lot of hamburgers because we didn't want to think about cutting the recipe down.

[Ashley Winter]

This is what happens when men are in charge. They make too many hamburgers.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I don't believe that would have been too much. They're just following the recipe.

[Ashley Winter]

Can't they just put them away and eat them later? Like, that's what leftovers are for. Of course I'm okay with the multiple hamburgers. It's better than a tuna melt. I'm not going to lie. It feels more palatable than a tuna melt.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

It seems like higher protein. So they're eating their hamburgers, and Ilia starts asking Shane about his parents. There's so many classic Ilia lines in episode six. Like, is that where you get your boring.

[Rachel Reed]

Sorry. This is a distraction. But, Kelly, I feel like you say about, like, a Canadian person.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I do say about, like, a Canadian. I'm basically half Canadian.

[Rachel Reed]

Wolfburn.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I don't. I don't know. This is an old statistic. But. But when I was in college and med school, which was in Minnesota, the number one illegal immigrant in Minnesota was a Canadian. A Canadian.

[Ashley Winter]

The Canadian just, like, the rest of America.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I'm just saying they blend in. The Minnesotans love, love them. But when I go back to Minnesota, the accent's very strong. Like I can hear it and I don't think I pick it back up. But yeah, I'll say like the abouts and the roof. Yeah, but we thought we lived close to Canada because we were two hours away being in northern Minnesota. And Now I live 20 minutes away. So I'm even closer now.

[Rachel Reed]

I don't know Washington state, because it's not like ice things the way that Minnesota is. It just seems less Canadian.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

It's the coast. Coastal Canadian.

[Rachel Reed]

Yeah.

[Ashley Winter]

Yeah.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Vancouver is not that wintry either. So is that where you get your boring from? He learns about his parents.

[Ashley Winter]

Where do you get your boring from?

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Who's boring in this scenario? Are you asking or me?

[Ashley Winter]

I might be the most boring. I'm definitely the most boring one of them. Ashley could be boring too.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Ashley could be boring. But you don't dress boring. She doesn't look like boring.

[Ashley Winter]

She dresses like she's not boring. But she might be boring.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

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[Rachel Reed]

I'm very boring. It's so boring.

[Ashley Winter]

I dress boring, but I am not boring.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Ask me about my boring.

[Rachel Reed]

Yeah, this is weird.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Okay.

[Ashley Winter]

All right, keep going. So they're Bo. They talks about McGill. What the is McGill?

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

It's a good school.

[Ashley Winter]

Irwin Goldstein played hockey at McGill.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

It's a good school.

[Ashley Winter]

He did med school, I think, at McGill. He did college at Brown. That's where he met sue, our mentor. Irwin Goldstein, the godfather of sexual medicine. But he was a Canadian hockey player. But he played at Brown. I love that. But now he has two new hips because of all of the hockey that he played.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I love that. Female sexual medicine was started by a urologist, a male urologist, because of the Viagra paper. So for people who don't know, Viagra paper got published. New England Journal of Medicine. Back in the day, you put your phone number at the bottom. It was, like, published because there wasn't emails. And so his phone started ringing from women saying, like, what do you got for me? And he's like, go to your gynecologist. And then they came back and they're like, went there, failed. What do you got for me? And that's the story.

[Ashley Winter]

There's an extra part to the story. He himself was married to a woman who was starting to go through menopause and have problems. He's like, well, my sex life is getting worse. We need to find solutions. So it was really selfish why he got interested in it, but it really. Their marriage saved the world pretty much.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Their. Their sex life mattered to the world, basically, yeah. Because of that sex. Because of that sex life, how many people's sex lives got better?

[Ashley Winter]

Thousands upon thousands upon thousands.

[Rachel Reed]

And because they didn't give up and just say, like, oh, our relationship has run its course. And, like, part ways, they were like, no, we're gonna figure this out.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

And they also weren't waiting for somebody else to come and save them. Be like, well, you know the Department of Gynecology, once they get their shit together, we'll figure this out for us.

[Rachel Reed]

It's like Rachel was saying this past week. Like, you realize at some point that there's no adults in the room. You are the adults. And they were just. They just did that. So they were.

[Ashley Winter]

But, like, we also need other adults, and we're not, like, I don't like things.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Can we get more than just a couple of interested adults?

[Ashley Winter]

Can we have more adults? Okay, so they have hamburgers. They talk about McGill then what happens?

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Probably more sexual.

[Ashley Winter]

It's very slow. Yeah. Then they talk about the fire and the Canadian wolf.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Wolf bird.

[Rachel Reed]

I have no idea what a loon is.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

It's a water bird, so you would think that means it's a duck. It's not a duck. It's like how I would have never

[Rachel Reed]

assumed any of that.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Now you know, now you can do it. I will work that into my Netflix comedy special somehow, just for you, please.

[Ashley Winter]

So he starts telling about his mother and the suicide and that she was brave and she took pills and she was lovely. And she was lovely. And you just see the little boy and Ilya come out. Right. Because everyone really is just a little child that wants to be loved and wants easy things. That's so sad.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

It's so sad. I have a child who's a little bit close to 12, and, like, as a parent, that is heartbreaking. 12 is very young.

[Ashley Winter]

Yeah. And then what happens?

[Rachel Reed]

It's kind of amazing, actually, that he's been through this trauma and he's so still able to be as vulnerable as he ends up being. Because I can say I've been in a relationship with more than one person in my life who has had a parent that died of suicide, and it just changed them at the deepest level. And I think that they were not able to be fully emotionally available. And I can't imagine. I cannot judge in any way, because I cannot imagine what it's like to go through that. But, yeah, I don't know. There's a lot of. A lot of complexity to that.

[Ashley Winter]

And is this. Then goes into when they say they love each other or is that later? That's later.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

That doesn't happen around the fire, because the fire's still like, the first night.

[Ashley Winter]

But then they go back into bed, and then he talks about wanting to name. What's your mom's name? Let's do a hockey school. Oh, she would have loved you. Just like I love you. So they said I love you before that because they had already said I love you. I don't know if the I love you is before or after. Canadian wolf word, but it's after.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I think it's after. So they first, like.

[Ashley Winter]

And then when does the part happen when they're on the couch, and then he says, I don't ever want to get sick of this. What does he say? I don't ever want to get rid of the problem. I want to get rid of the problem. It's just all. It's just all so good.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

But I'm putting together now. You know how.

[Ashley Winter]

Don't marry Svetlana.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Yeah, please don't marry Svetlana. When Rose in episode five says, this isn't a problem. A problem, something you can fix. And then Ilya says, I don't ever want to get rid of this problem.

[Ashley Winter]

Oh, I love that scene when they're just, like, playing footsie on the couch.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

And isn't Ilya wearing the plaid shirt that Shane was wearing when he was grilling the hamburgers?

[Ashley Winter]

I didn't pick up on that. But that is so hot.

[Rachel Reed]

I did not pick on that.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

It's hot.

[Rachel Reed]

So hot.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

It's super hot. Because, you know, he probably just packed a black tank top.

[Ashley Winter]

Right.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Not thinking what one would need at for two weeks at the cottage.

[Ashley Winter]

You can share clothes. That's so cute.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Yeah, you can share clothes.

[Rachel Reed]

I know. I'm so jealous of that squat routine.

[Ashley Winter]

Super bonus points for squat routines. I like. They didn't show them exercising together.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I wish they played soccer.

[Ashley Winter]

And there wasn't.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Well, one was swimming.

[Ashley Winter]

I would have liked to see some rowing side by side.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

They've been playing sport together for a decade at this point.

[Rachel Reed]

They should have done, like, in the first episode, how they're doing the bikes next to each other. We need some mirroring of that to see how they move forward.

[Ashley Winter]

I agree. I agree. My simple brain wants very intimate.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I love it very much. Should we talk about the dad walk again?

[Ashley Winter]

Sure. The dad walks in. I thought it was a pretty good panic attack. Like, I thought he did a nice job of that.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

It was the biggest panic attack, like, as far. As far as, like, big emotions. Because usually his panic attacks are him kind of shutting down.

[Ashley Winter]

Yeah. But his nightmare was he knew his parents were going to be fine about him being gay, but he felt so guilty that he had lied to them for so long. That was the part he was like. But I lied to them. I lied to them. Like, they aren't going to forgive me for lying to them because I'm a good kid, I'm a good son, but I lied to them. And that's the. Where the. That's where the deep shame and guilt and, like, fear comes from. Like, I was going to tell them in my own way, in my own time. I knew I was going to tell them and I knew they were going to be fine with it, but I lied to them.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

He lied to him right up to the moment he told me he was at, like, a meditation retreat. And apparently it again wasn't written for him to be that big with his emotions in the freakout. But as an actor, Hudson Williams went very big with that. And Jacob Tierney said, this is an interview. He said, like, I was gonna interrupt it, like it wasn't part of the plan, but I just filmed the whole thing. And then it was the editor later on who was like, yes to keeping this in, to letting it be big. Because it just, it shows the intensity of the emotion so beautifully. Even though that's not how it was written and that wasn't the plan because

[Rachel Reed]

even though he knows his parents will accept it, it's like that reveal of the fact that he's gay is something that somehow he's been rehearsing in his head. And it shattered. That version of his future shattered in that moment. And it was too big. It was too big to process without a big reaction.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Yeah.

[Ashley Winter]

Oh, and he said he. The best part is he says, it's my nightmare. This is my nightmare. And Ilya goes, well, maybe it's time to wake up.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Oh, I'm telling you, Ilya has all the lines in this episode.

[Rachel Reed]

He does.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

It's so good. So they decided to drive over to the parents house.

[Ashley Winter]

My husband makes fun of me because I get, I really do not like the term lovers. Like in any song that talks about lovers. I get really grossed out and I think it's disgusting and it makes me really icky. And so my husband always makes fun of me for that. And then in this part of the episode, Shane also gets really uncomfortable whenever they use the word lovers. And he's like, can we stop talking at saying that word? And I am on tape team Shane with that because that is a gross ass word.

[Rachel Reed]

I loved it. I loved it. And I also love that Shane was like, no, that's gross. Like, that's gross.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

It's so good. And I think like, you know, here, even in like a world where they, what their love is taboo, they still have taboos of what the word should be, right? Like we've all got something.

[Ashley Winter]

They call it to their boyfriend at that moment. And then it's like the first time they say it out loud and there's like witnesses and they're like, oh my gosh.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

And then, then I like how they were like, you know, when did it all get started? But they were just fucking for a while, right?

[Rachel Reed]

Like they were just, oh, yeah, we're doing that.

[Ashley Winter]

You don't want to, you don't want to talk to your parents about that? No, it's just, I think mostly Shane's upset about disappointing a fan. Like his mom's like, just like a fan.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Yeah, I like his parents a lot.

[Ashley Winter]

They're lovely.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

They're absolutely lovely.

[Rachel Reed]

So good when the mom walks outside and he follows her outside and they have that little exchange of her being like, of course I'm proud of you and I'm so sorry that you felt like you couldn't tell me this. I was crying. I was just completely crying, like, because we all know, we've all had an experience of knowing that we love our parents and they love us back and there's something that hasn't been said and it's so heavy and we've all.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Yeah, I'm like, I'm very curious to see what the season two is going to bring.

[Ashley Winter]

All right, so is there more that you want to talk about or can we say what our favorite episode or scene were in the whole series? Do you want to do any wrap up of episode six or you want to do some wrap up of the whole season?

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I think I just think everybody was very happy with episode six. Like, nobody I've talked to was like, that didn't end how I wanted it to.

[Ashley Winter]

I mean, it was perfect.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

It was perfect.

[Ashley Winter]

How could anyone be mad?

[Rachel Reed]

The only criticisms I hear is nothing about like the storytelling or the acting or the mood or the cinematography. That is all perfect. It is.

[Ashley Winter]

Is it just Hayden? It's just Hayden.

[Rachel Reed]

It's just Hayden. No, no, it's the storyline of like, why wouldn't Ilya have been able to apply for US Citizenship being in Boston? Why would. There's no. It doesn't make any sense and maybe I'm missing something, but why would he have had to be in Ottawa and applying for Canadian citizenship? Professional athletes, like their manager person is working on this stuff from day one. So I just don't understand that.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I'm wondering if it never crossed Ilya's mind to get another citizenship until the dad died and he had the fracture of Moscow and then he was like, well, how do I do this? He's been in the US for like a decade at this point. It just wasn't right. And he's somewhat top of mind, clearly,

[Rachel Reed]

who doesn't think, hasn't. Hadn't been thinking ahead. He hadn't been. He had been living with this risk and he had been having sex with his, what, coach's son back in the place. And he wasn't a planner the way that Shane is the planner. But even in that moment, once he becomes the planner, it's like you could still apply for U.S. citizenship. You are a professional athlete. Like, you can do that.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

They want your tax revenue. Let's be serious.

[Rachel Reed]

Yeah.

[Ashley Winter]

How did we feel about Hayden in the last episode that Hayden called during the blowjob?

[Rachel Reed]

Oh. Oh, yeah.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Hayden didn't know what was going on.

[Rachel Reed]

There is no way Hayden didn't know

[Ashley Winter]

what was going on.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

That was so breathy.

[Ashley Winter]

Very breathy, but it's nowhere. Can we bring that IUD back? Jackie needs an iud.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Jackie needs some pelvic floor.

[Rachel Reed]

Jackie went to Catholic school and pelvic floor.

[Ashley Winter]

Physical therapy and vaginal Catholic school with Kelly. Rapid fire Kelly. Shane or Ilya.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Oh, Ilya.

[Ashley Winter]

Or we should have asked Josh, because in it we could include the other two. Ashley Winter.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Right.

[Ashley Winter]

Josh wants Kip. Ashley Winter, Shane, Ilia, Kip. Or I'm gonna agree. I'm gonna. I'm gonna round it out and say for sure.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Three for. Three for the Ilia.

[Ashley Winter]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

That guy makes me want to work out.

[Rachel Reed]

I mean, his butt. How could you ever. His butt is like. There's no button.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

It breaks my heart if anybody remotely listening knows. It breaks my heart that these people smoke cigarettes. Is that, like a judgmental older sister thing to say of, like, God, you guys, come on.

[Rachel Reed]

Wait, do they do it in real life or just in the show?

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Yeah, irl. The actual actors smoke cigarettes.

[Rachel Reed]

Wait, really?

[Ashley Winter]

Yes.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I feel like we talked about that.

[Rachel Reed]

Oh, that's so bad.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

But I texted somebody who has spent some time with them, and I'm like, can you please tell him that his dick doesn't like cigarettes? Like, speak to them in the language that they understand.

[Ashley Winter]

Okay, who's your favorite female character?

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Svetlana.

[Rachel Reed]

I'm gonna say Svetlana too.

[Ashley Winter]

I'll go for a third svelte. Although the very close second is the one who goes, girl. I like her.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I know girl.

[Ashley Winter]

I don't know her name, but I like.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

She's gonna get more acting parts just

[Ashley Winter]

from that one line.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Not girl acting just because of the one line. But that's.

[Ashley Winter]

Kyle might be like, the dad is good. Like, just like the cast of characters around the main characters are so good. It was lovely.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

They're all so good.

[Ashley Winter]

Everybody's lovely.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

If Shane and Ilya have children in the future, who's donating the sperm?

[Ashley Winter]

Or just throw them all in a bucket and see who wins. See who's the better hockey player.

[Rachel Reed]

They're gonna say, Shane is more perfect because he knows French. And then he should.

[Ashley Winter]

He's got the multicultural genes. He's got the. Exactly.

[Rachel Reed]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

But he's got a little bit of personality traits they don't want to pass on. Maybe they do though.

[Rachel Reed]

Oh, for sure.

[Ashley Winter]

Yeah.

[Rachel Reed]

But.

[Ashley Winter]

But Ilya has the depression and the trauma.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

That's true.

[Ashley Winter]

That is ingrained in the.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

His epigenetic. His epi. His epigenomes can affect the sperm. Can we talk any more rapid fire? Because I want to wrap up with one more urology thing.

[Ashley Winter]

We're good, but let's. Yeah.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

And we love again, Rachel Reed. We love you, Jacob Tierney. We love you.

[Ashley Winter]

Please come to Iswish.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I'm going to please come to Ishwish in Vancouver.

[Ashley Winter]

We'd love to see you.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

February. Oh, right.

[Ashley Winter]

In Canada.

[Rachel Reed]

Next year.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

It's in Canada.

[Ashley Winter]

Yeah. My job is to email them, so I have to work.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Your job. Is this on you?

[Ashley Winter]

Is actually on my. Is. I am the head of the committee to figure out a way to create a heated rivalry. There's a committee at the. There's a whole committee just for the heated rivalry section of the meeting.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

And we can't get female dose testosterone across the line yet we have a committee to get heated rivalry. Somebody from heated rivalry. Even if it's the girl. Girl, girl.

[Ashley Winter]

She'll come. She's got.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

She'll come.

[Rachel Reed]

I think it should be called a commission, not a committee.

[Ashley Winter]

It's a commission emission like a. A seminal omission. Well, so when you're in the scientific program committee, it's like a big group of people and then they come up with the topics that they want and I demanded something about erotica and heated rivalry. And then people sign up to help with that little symposium. So there's many symposium at the meeting. This is one of them.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

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[Ashley Winter]

and there's a group of people that are helping to plan this little particular part. And so it's going to be about erotica and heated rivalry. And the goal would, like, why it was such a big deal for women's sexual health. And the dream would be to get Rachel Reed or Jacob Tierney to come talk to the giant academic conference. And the key will be is, can we pull it off? And I'm going to give us, like, a 6% chance, but we're going to try because I believe in big dreams.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

12% now that you said it on the podcast. All right.

[Ashley Winter]

A podcast makes it a 12%. Let's put it out there. Do a sizzle reel of this conversation. Yes.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

And just tag, everybody. Tag, Tag, Tag.

[Ashley Winter]

Yeah. Tag, tag.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Well, it's possible because it's Canada.

[Ashley Winter]

Canada.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

We could have, like, the Canadian government sponsor it even.

[Ashley Winter]

Right?

[Rachel Reed]

They should.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Canada supports sex researchers more than America does. I know several that have moved to Canada to continue their research because America is so unsupportive.

[Ashley Winter]

I was offered a big. I was offered to apply for a big job to, like, do just that. And I was like, that would be lovely, but I can't. I'm not moving to.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Was it Vancouver or was it the East Coast?

[Ashley Winter]

I think it was West Coast. We could have been neighbors.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

It might have been ubc. People turn. It's a. Vancouver is very expensive. People turn down those jobs because it's a customer.

[Ashley Winter]

Do you know where. Do you know where I live?

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I've slept in your basement.

[Ashley Winter]

I know. I'm just saying I live in a very, very expensive part of the world.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Like, I wouldn't say you're based on this particular.

[Ashley Winter]

Do you know how small my house is and how bad the views are compared to yours? Like, if anybody sees the view from Kelly's house, it's the most beautiful thing in the world. And I live in a very expensive, tiny Bungalow in Washington, D.C. yet they haven't visited me.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

But Ishwish is in Vancouver in 2027. Let's wrap it up with one more urology thing. So somebody's substack who will not be named said that women's genitals get bigger after menopause. And I was like, mer. Yeah, exactly. So I was like, mer. And this statement On a sub stack was not there. No sources were cited. And so I was like, mer, do I not know this? Do we just get kind of dangly and swollen? Like, what happens after menopause? And this was like literally a week ago. So then I go on to Claude and all of the search engines and basically do my own research. And I did two posts on Instagram that are two MRI studies, one of which is over 20 years old. So we've known this for a while. And they MRI'd pre and postmenopausal pelvises. And it's not true. The vagina shortens you. You literally can't MRI the rugae. The rugae are gone. The clitoris is smaller. So we have MRI studies showing female genitals shrink after menopause. So I want to discuss that. And then I also wanna discuss what we know about penis size and testicle size and testosterone after that.

[Rachel Reed]

Well, also, just anecdotally, I mean, have you if you've ever seen a huge,

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

huge female genitals after. No. The occasional labia?

[Rachel Reed]

What does that even mean?

[Ashley Winter]

What was the argument? All.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I think all is not lost.

[Rachel Reed]

I don't know.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I kind of blacked out after I read it and like, went down a research. I could imagine you waking up three

[Rachel Reed]

days later, like covered in research papers, like, what?

[Ashley Winter]

What was that?

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I don't know why they would say that. And if you're gonna say something groundbreaking, back it up with a citation or two or six.

[Rachel Reed]

The only comment I have on this is that we do sometimes notice more urethral prominence in the postmenopausal women, but this is for a number of reasons, like closing of the introitus. So basically the urethra takes up more.

[Ashley Winter]

Right.

[Rachel Reed]

More of the opening. So for people who don't really understand, I'm basically saying if you were to take the vulva in front of you and split the labia majora and labia minora, and you look inside of this vulvar vestibule at the opening. Right. The introitus. And instead of being like a little bit of urethra and a lot of bit of vaginal opening, it's like looks like more urethra. I mean, that's like probably the only thing I could say in terms of genitals looking bigger, but that that's a

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

relative bigger because it's really because the other genital shrunk. It's kind of like saying your penis got smaller because your belly got bigger. Yes, your belly just got bigger. And then is penis Size correlated with testosterone.

[Rachel Reed]

I mean, you can have shrinkage if you have.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

If it's low.

[Ashley Winter]

We know like androgen deprivation therapy creates atrophy of the penis, Right. So there's definitely testosterone.

[Rachel Reed]

Yeah.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

So that means end testicles are smaller

[Rachel Reed]

but within normal between somebody who has a testosterone of 600 and a testosterone of 800. Like, you would not be able to line those people up side by side and know which one had a higher baseline T based on the size of their penis. It's just that for a given person, if they go through a period of basically profound loss of testosterone, they can have reduction in size of their penis, but that's not the determinant of overall penis size.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Reuben, did you want to add anything to these MRI studies for over 20 years that are trying to get.

[Ashley Winter]

Yeah, but nobody reads articles. They just like to say things. I'm more trying to get people from heated rivalry to come to ISSWISH conference. It's February 25th to 28th, 2027. Can you believe that we are going to be able to see the year 2027? But more importantly, anybody listening, if you have listened to six episodes of us crazy people talking about this, if you've made it all the way through, if you don't come to is wish in February 25th to 28th, 2027, what are you even doing with your life? I mean, the whole point of this is you clearly like us. You're clearly interested in science and medicine and talking about sexual medicine. You should come to ISSwish. You should get involved. You should take the courses. You should learn how to practice sexual medicine. We love patient advocates. You're invited too. You can come and party with us. We are kind of boring. We don't party that hard, but we have a lot of fun.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

The parties end by nine, but we drink a lot of coffee during the day.

[Ashley Winter]

Yeah, we do. We go to bed and. But most importantly, we will have a sess on heated rivalry. And hopefully someone will join us. But maybe not. It might just be the three of us talking about it. Let's be real science.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Come for the science. I love it. Can we talk about one more thing having to do with erotica that I learned? I learned about this at. I was at UC Irvine and I actually learned about this from Jessica. Do you guys know about tentacle erotica?

[Rachel Reed]

Yeah. I mean, I don't watch it, but I know about it.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Okay, so it's a whole subset of erotica. It's octopus, giant squid, and monsters with tentacles that enrapture the female and have sex with her with their tentacles.

[Rachel Reed]

Why? Because it's. People want to be like.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

It's actually very big in Asia.

[Ashley Winter]

Oh, because of, like, roping and, like, roping people.

[Rachel Reed]

Because it's like, restraint. And it's also like being overwhelmed with like.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Like, it's a g. There's nothing like

[Ashley Winter]

the American Express Platinum card.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Find out your welcome offer after you apply, which could be as high as 175,000 points. Learn more and find out your [e-mail] Explore Platinum terms apply Bang Bang in one.

[Rachel Reed]

Kind of.

[Ashley Winter]

Because it's like nine brains, so each arm is like a different brain.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

An independent lover. And the point of the story is, even though you're a sex med doc and you are comfortable talking, there's still things you don't know.

[Ashley Winter]

Oh, I don't know anything.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

And that's why we keep going to Ishwish and hanging out with Jessica in California. Because they teach us. Everybody teaches us new things. And that's why it's very fun.

[Ashley Winter]

It's so fun. It's so fun. We don't have to.

[Rachel Reed]

Josh, teach us about what was the

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

fraught.

[Rachel Reed]

Yeah, I didn't know about that.

[Ashley Winter]

There's so much we don't know, my friend. There's so much to learn.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

We're going to leave everybody with that is the true definition of an expert is one who knows that there's so much we don't know.

[Ashley Winter]

This was so fun to do. Thank you so much for putting us together in this amazing episode.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I remember. So we were in. So we were in Rachel's hotel room watching Heat of Rivalry during I swish of 2020. During a swish 2026. And I said, could we do one episode?

[Ashley Winter]

Can we just paint the picture for people? We are in a hotel room and it was a true sex med conference. Because in that hotel room was an internal medicine doc, a psychiatrist, a sex therapist, two female urologists, a gynecologist, a brief visit from a vibrator company, and we were all just watching these episodes together and, like, having a multidisciplinary watch party. It was so fun. And I just want to be clear that neither Kelly nor Ashley would watch this show until I threatened friendship.

[Rachel Reed]

After many months, I had not even heard of it. And I probably still wouldn't have if you hadn't made me know.

[Ashley Winter]

It took me a while, but thank you for listening to me. I'm not going to say I told you so, but I fucking told you so.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Yeah, well, it's like, you know, once you learn that about a friend, how right they are, I won't make the same mistake in the future.

[Ashley Winter]

You see. Yes, I'll try to be careful with my recommendation.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

This one seems to have hit a home run, so we did a good job.

[Ashley Winter]

We did a good job.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Now your batting average is very high.

[Ashley Winter]

Thanks for having me.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

So I said, can we do one episode? And she said, let's do six.

[Ashley Winter]

I did.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Yes.

[Ashley Winter]

I'm regretting that decision, to be honest.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

You did get to do a hard hangout, though. This was it might, in the words of of Amy Poehler, this was a good hang.

[Ashley Winter]

It was a good hang. I'll be. I'll be honest.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

All right, everybody, we will see you in Ishwish. And thanks for coming to the podcast today and all the days.

[Rachel Reed]

Thank you for having me.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

If you found this episode funny, helpful, insightful, please take a moment to follow rate and share the youe Are Not Broken podcast with someone who might need this conversation too. That support is how this information reaches more people, and thank you for courses, books and my monthly membership and the Caspersen clinic information, visit KellyCaspersonMD.com this podcast and all content from Dr. Kelly Casperson is intended for educational and informational purposes only, and this is not a substitute for individual medical coaching or psychological advice, diagnosis or treatment. Always seek the guidance of your qualified healthcare professional with any questions you may have regarding your health. Never disregard or delay medical advice because of something you've heard on this or other podcasts. Thanks for being here. And remember, you are Not Broken.