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- [00:04]
A
Welcome to the youe Are Not Broken podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Kelly Casperson, a board certified urologist, thought leader, and conversation starter on midlife living, hormones and sexuality. Enjoy the show.
- [00:18]
B
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the you're Not Broken podcast. And I'm like, literally laughing because I just told Tamsyn that she can swear. And I don't know if I've even heard Tamsen swear in my life. So now I'm feeling bad about it.
- [00:28]
C
I heard you swear. How dare you. Of course you have, dude.
- [00:31]
B
Tamsen, we're here to talk about your book, which is called how to Menopause. You literally, like, turned it into a verb. So it's like, next level. I'm like, have other told you people told you you've turned menopause into a how. How to. You've turned it into a verb?
- [00:46]
C
You're, like, uber smart. So you're calling it a verb? I didn't even know I did that.
- [00:49]
B
She verbed menopause the first person to have done it. So the book is called how to Menopause and it's really, really effing good.
- [00:59]
C
Thank you.
- [00:59]
B
I finished it this weekend.
- [01:01]
C
Well, you're in it and I'm in it. I had such a good time writing it now that it's over. And now that I'm done writing it, as you know, that is quite the process, I think.
- [01:09]
B
I think writing books is like, it's mostly torture and then you forget about it and then you want another one.
- [01:14]
C
But I want to do it again. I wanted something I wanted on my own.
- [01:17]
B
It wasn't that bad. Was it that bad? It wasn't that bad.
- [01:19]
C
It wasn't that bad. This one was fun, though, because, you know, a journalist for 30 years, so I love interviewing people. I love asking questions. And so that's what this was. I got to ask like a gazillion questions. And then I got to really grab everybody from social media and ask their questions of all these brilliant, brilliant doctors and experts and people from all fields, including yourself. Questions that I wish I had the answers to. Like, I wish I knew this. I wish I knew I was in perimenopause. I wish I knew what to do in menopause. And so it was really kind of this how to. And when I came up with that, you know, I struggled with the title, remember, like a year plus ago, I was like, I don't know what to call it. You're at my house. I was like, people are telling me to call it, like, hot, like I didn't know what to do. And you're like, you can't do that. And so anyway, when I was like, this is a how to book. And then I went, oh, the most obvious answer is the right one, right?
- [02:15]
B
100%. I, I think a big barrier is that a lot of people still don't think that perimenopause is real.
- [02:23]
C
Right, right. It's a huge burden.
- [02:25]
B
It's like most people will accept menopause as a thing. Yeah. But like, do they just think like the, you know, gets whopped on Tuesday and now you're in menopause, like there's a massive event headed up to ovarian senescence. Talk about your experience. And you do it so beautifully in the book of like making you feel because top news anchor in New York City. You kind of look like you have it all put together, Elizabeth, you know, and like, you know, we all want to feel like we have it put together, but you just, you give such a humanist picture to being like, dude, the duck that looks smooth on the surface is like pedaling like crazy underneath. So share your perimenopause because I know it's going to resonate with people.
- [03:06]
C
I didn't even know I was going through it. You know, I went through a really messy divorce in my early 40s. And everything that happened to me during that time, every doctor was like, it's stress, it's stress, your hair is falling out. Stress, can't sleep. Stress, feeling anxiety and nervousness and like weird non social things that didn't make any sense to who I was. Stress, you know, irregular periods all over the place. I never had the hallmark to my knowledge of the 12 months of not having a period in my mind because I had endometrium polyp. So I never was like, oh, I didn't get my period for a year because I thought that people. Because I was bleeding. It was. And then I had really debilitating brain fog, but didn't have vocabulary for it. I just knew that I started feeling really uncomfortable going on television every night, which is something I did like air, you know. But then I would be nervous in front of the camera, I would feel uncomfortable. I would look at a word, couldn't remember it, skip the word. Just really like not me. And I couldn't wait to get off the air. You know, you do them for 30 years, you kind of have it down. And I just, I couldn't wait to not do it, you know, every night at the end of the night. And so I realized once I hit menopause, which was I had a blood test done after I landed on the floor of the women's bathroom one night in a live broadcast, heart racing, out of control, not knowing what was going on, feeling completely anxious, I went to the doctor, and I got four words in my patient portal in menopause. Any questions? That was it. Like, literally, that was it. That was my diagnosis. That was what they told me. That's what they like. And I was like, in menopause. What does that mean? And so my husband now was my boyfriend at the time, and I was like, I'm in menopause. Like, I couldn't believe this. Like, horrible old. Like, what is this thing? And then wound up going doctor to doctor to try to figure out what to do and just had no. No idea. But perimenopause was never mentioned to me. I was getting polyps taken out every other year. Never mentioned to me. Bleeding all the time. Bleeding through outfits, bleeding on the anchor desk, running between commercial breaks to change my tampon. No one ever said anything to me. And so when I think about all those women that are so conf. That's what wakes me up every day and keeps me up late at night.
- [05:14]
B
100%. You live in New York City and you have access. And besides the fact you know a ton of people, right? And so I think of you of, like, dude, how many doctors did you have to go to to, like, get to the point where you're like, okay, I think we're good at this point. And it's like, how many did you
- [05:32]
A
have to go to?
- [05:32]
B
And then you're like, everybody else is kind of effed.
- [05:34]
C
I couldn't even believe I was doing it. First of all, the problem is it's like finding a doctor, going to it, spending the time, taking time off work, if you even have that luxury, to be able to find a doctor to do that and then get there and feel, like, completely misunderstood or walking away with no answers or not even knowing what to fight for, right? So I went from a GP because I didn't really even know what was wrong with me when that happened, I went to a therapist because I thought it was anxiety. Got Lexapro, went to an endocrinologist, went to another ob, and I was given hormones after I got that diagnosis of in menopause and equestrian, which I changed that ob, and then I was offered pellets, and then I was scared to go on hormones because my mother died of breast cancer. So I had no clue what was going on. I mean, this was just like, over.
- [06:22]
A
Over.
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C
There was like six different doctors, which is insane. And then I finally met a woman that said to me, oh, I met one woman that was like, oh, I can't wait to get on hormones because of how great it's going to be for my skin. And I'm like, what? They were these crazy things. And I was like, I don't care about skin. I care about, like, I just don't want to happen to my mother.
- [06:41]
B
Right.
- [06:42]
C
And so I finally went to a doctor. It was like, what are you. Why are you suffering? Like, let me just explain to you what it is. It's not about what's happening today. It's not about that. We don't think you're tough enough to handle the hot flashes. And though not wanting to have sex with your fiance, it's that long term, this is what it protects. And I had no idea, like, that wasn't even. I thought that you don't do medicine in the immediate or anything. If you can help it, right? If I can help it, I don't want to do that.
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B
If you do everything else right.
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C
Right.
- [07:10]
B
You get the privilege of not needing to take medications. Menopause turns that upside down.
- [07:15]
C
And even vaginal estrogen was never a conversation. Never a conversation. Until I started talking with you all, like, literally never a conversation. I had to go back to my doctor and say, like, hey, what about vaginal estrogen? So it's just really. When we went through the years of, of making the documentary the M factor, it was. That was another learning curve for me, you know, like, all the things I thought I knew at that point leading up to it, I just learned all new things.
- [07:40]
B
Yeah, well, because you had learned you had become the, the expert of your experience. Right? And now you're making a documentary of, like, there's all these other experiences also happening. This is not a one size fits all. And, you know, that's why your book is so great, because you're like, great. This book is called how to Menopause. I'm going to figure out the path. And then you find out, like, everybody's path is different.
- [08:00]
C
Everybody's path is different. When I look at all the areas, you know, and someone's like, you know, what are we going to do to get past this? And I was like, there's so many different areas. Right. There's the funding, there's the research, there's the education in medical school. There's a. Oh, until we do all those things, we have to educate women because that's our first line of defense. Right? Like, we are our own first line of defense. And so I do feel like there's just so much to do. And so some days I can't paddle fast enough.
- [08:27]
B
I'm going to dig us into a dark hole, then hopefully then take us back out. But there's a. There's a corner of the Internet where physicians are complaining that women are going in and advocating for perimenopause and menopause care. And so, you know, like, us as being part of the menopause of, like, that dude, that's how we're changing the world, is we're educating women to go advocate and listen. For better or for worse. Hormones are prescription medications. Like, the people who can prescribe are the gatekeepers to this one piece of menopause care. I know it's everything for menopause here, but it's huge. It's literally what menopause is, is low hormones. Some people, like, the medical system's already so stressed that now people are coming in asking for more. Is it like it isn't all smooth sailing and to that. And what am I doing? I'm not complaining. What I'm doing is people are actually saying, what are these women coming in thinking everything's perimenopause? And we're like, oh, well, we're doing a good job then. Because the doctors are realizing women are coming in now. And the way we get information now is books, podcasts, documentaries. Medical care is no longer the gatekeeper to knowledge like it used to be.
- [09:40]
C
We know it's interesting. Well, two things. I was at south by Southwest, and this woman came up to me and she goes, I just want to thank you. And I said, yeah, of course. And she goes, but my doctor told me that when I went in and I told the doctor that I have this brain fog and I'm just not feeling myself and I'm gaining weight. I just like, alcohol's not the same way. I feel off. My periods are all over the place. That menopause was just trending right now, and that's not what it was. And I was heartbroken. I went, oh, no. Because, look, we always know this is how it works when things go one way. Now we're gonna have to be this shift for a little while to everyone's comfortable. But I do hope that there's enough in terms of telehealth out there to be able to scoo. Scoop up these people that need help. And I hope that there's enough of our voices out there. Strong enough. The other thing I will say is I was in New Jersey at an event, and this woman stood up and she said, you know, I just want you to know, I watched. I had people come coming into the office, like, I need hormones. I think it's perimenopause. I think I'm in menopause. And she's like, oh, gosh, now what? And so she said, I've been an OB and delivering babies my whole life. And she said. And people were saying like, oh, I read this book. I saw this documentary. I keep hearing about it online. And she said, And I. So I sat down and I watched the documentary. And she goes, and I got a copy of your book that one of my patients brought into me. And I just want you to know that I'm turning my practice over to treating all women in midlife and be a practitioner and learn about menopause. I was like, oh, my God. Like, that's amazing. Yeah, that's amazing. So I think for every one of the, you know, the critics that we get, if we have somebody like that that comes over and says that that's what they're doing to help so many women, that's incredible.
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B
I changed my. I changed my career because of. I gave up surgery to treat hormones and sex med. It's that rewarding.
- [11:23]
C
But your voice is that big. Like, I was on another podcast earlier, and the woman's like, you know, I always love what Dr. Kelly Casperson says. And I'm like, me, too. I'm talking to her later.
- [11:32]
B
You know, like, I always think, like, all the menopause, like, all of us, we're all like Teletubbies or the Spice Girls or the Power Rangers. And I'm like, the no nonsense. I'm the no nonsense one.
- [11:43]
C
I love that. Well, we need that one. We need that one. We need those voices, though, when we need some to understand. Like, I'm. I was with Dr. Suzanne Gilbert Len. She came into Los Angeles and she interviewed you. She interviewed me. It was really fun.
- [11:56]
B
She was like, oh, good.
- [11:58]
C
I can't wait. I'm like, really? She goes, I've never interviewed you. And I said, oh, I never thought about it like that. She goes, you've interviewed me, like, 10 times. She said, you know, the truth is, is, like, you're the lay person me, and you're helping women communicate with us, the doctor. And she's like, and that's what's really the bridge. And we need all of us holding hands. And I'd never looked at it really like that before. You know, I'm always like, oh, I'm journal journalist. But that's the truth, is I'm just a woman. And so I think that that was where the book was easier for me to write because I pictured what I was going through. I was like, okay, this book has to be brain fog proof. Because when I was really going through it, I still was in, out, in, out. You know, book took, like, two years to write. And so I was still, like, having a hard time concentrating, having a tough time sitting down and, like, picking up a thought and taking it to completion without getting distracted. So I really did write that book from a place of somebody who'd been through that. Like, I was like, what do I want when I pick up this book? I'm not feeling good. Might not have slept, kind of, like, irritated with everything. Don't have a lot of patience. Don't have time to go deep. Just give me the facts. And so that was why I had fun with that. But, yeah, so Suzanne just kind of explained it to me, how she sees that bridge. And I thought that that was pretty cool.
- [13:09]
B
It's so cool. And to me, I'm like, is this not just about. I think a lot of this is about hormones. Don't get me wrong. But it's not like, what we're doing is we're teaching people how to advocate for themselves. We're teaching people how to ask for something at the doctor's office. We're teaching them, like, you know, the menopause is like, this is what you say to the doctor. This is how you ask for it. This is how you do it. And it's like, we're fundamentally changing the world. And because that's going to trickle down into everything else, you're like, 100%. The difficult conversations, like, your fiance when you're like, I'm in menopause. It's not like he's like, don't worry, honey, I got this. Yeah, they can't have this, right? So it's like, it's a whole different way of being like, I've got to know what's going on because nobody else does.
- [13:54]
C
It was really. You know, I lived by scripts my whole life, and so I was like, oh, I'm just going to write some scripts inside the book for people. Because it really. When you feel nervous and uncomfortable, and rightfully so, because you go into the doctor, and I don't know if you feel like this, going to. As a doctor, going to another doctor, do you feel intimidated ever, or.
- [14:14]
B
I'M more like at the dentist. I have that, though, because I'm like, I don't know anything about teeth. I also feel like it's like a personality issue. Like, if something's wrong with my teeth, it's because I was a moral failure. Like, I get that a lot.
- [14:25]
C
That's how we feel. Like, I'm like, hey, I'm bleeding, like, a lot. What did I do wrong? My body?
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B
Am I not meditating enough?
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C
Yeah. Did I not meditate?
- [14:35]
B
Did I forget to recycle something once?
- [14:38]
C
So that's how we feel at the doctors. It's funny. Even now, I really do have to, like, go in there and be like, okay, I was with Ira because he's had this, like, horrible cough. And we went into the doctor, and the doctor, like, looks, and he's like, what's she doing here? And so, Because Ira will be like, oh, yeah, whatever you want me to take. And I was like, no, is there a contraindicator to this medicine? And I was like, who. What? What did I just say? And so I don't even know if
- [15:02]
B
I know what the word really means. And.
- [15:04]
C
But I've learned to, like, at least ask enough questions. Either one, they want me to leave, or two, at least I've second guessed enough where I feel. You know, I feel good. And I want. I want people to feel like that, especially women in midlife, because that's the area that's just been, like, had the shrug. But I think that doctors, especially when doctors reach that age, whether it's perimenopause or menopause, have more sympathy or more awareness because they're going through it now, too, with very little answer. And so I think that that's why we're seeing that kind of change so, so rapidly.
- [15:34]
B
I think especially, like, the female physicians are like, dude, the menopause belly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it. Like, you know, when we were like, dude, do you just kept telling women to, like, exercise and eat less? Is like, they don't work. I know that's not what's going on.
- [15:48]
C
I had Dr. Rocio on my podcast. We. We did my numbers, you know, because she is my endocrinologist, and she went through my numbers, said, like, I was pre diabetic, and I'm like, what? And I couldn't. I couldn't believe it. And so then she's like, are you sure you want to go through it on the air? And I was like, I do, because I think it's important that, like, I can't pretend that like I'm perfect, I'm not.
- [16:11]
B
Right.
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C
And you know, be like, oh no, I perfectly eat every bit of everything. It's really hard to get that much protein. It's really hard to like. And so she was explaining to me like the grains that I was doing to try to get enough protein in the form of grains were causing a problem for me.
- [16:26]
B
Sure, right?
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C
Isn't that crazy? I had no idea. So it's just like constantly learning. But I asked her 6,000 questions about it because I just didn't understand. But you know, you guys are patient with all my questions.
- [16:37]
B
We love you and like also we're obsessed with this topic. Dude. But I have to tell you, this might be the first time, this might be an announcement on this podcast right now. I got my DEXA done last week.
- [16:46]
C
You did? I'm going at the beginning of June.
- [16:49]
B
For anybody who's listening in my town, go to, go to like the private radiology clinic in town. Ask what your cash price for DEXA? Bone density. Two different DEXAs. There's a DEXA for bone density and there's DEXA for body composition. And there's usually two different things. So ask for the one you want. They're both good. But I have an in body scanner in my clinic so I don't need body comp.
- [17:10]
C
Right. So I got the one that you stand on.
- [17:12]
B
That's when you stand on and it that Yeah, I gained like a pound of muscle over the past month that I'm like so proud of my £1 baby, baby muscle. But dude, I have osteopenia.
- [17:25]
C
No you don't. Then I must, I must.
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B
So I've been processing that.
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C
What do you do now?
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B
Just be more of a badass. So here's the thing. You don't know if you ever built to maximum capacity. So maximum bone strength is 25 maybe I never built. I'm a small framed person. But I'm like also dude, I was pretty much underweight or at the bottom of the BMI for most of my life and so I'm like, dude, I was just fricking undernourished. So now I'm like dude, protein, muscle, vitamin D. Now I'm start, I've started jumping just the data on and it's like minimal jumps. It's like 20 jumps a day. It's like actually kind of fun.
- [18:02]
C
A little trampoline thing.
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B
No, you just freaking jump. So like jump like in the air? Yeah. You do one legged jumps if you feel like good for your balance.
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C
Is it for balance or for bone strength. All right, I'll try that. Oh, no. Now I'm a little nervous, honestly.
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B
No, no. Like, this is like, get the Dexa. Figure out where you are. Because it's like you can at least maintain, if not gain. So to me, I'm like, all the hormones. I'm probably never going to try to be skinny again in my life. To me, I'm like, it's muscle. Muscle is sexy as hell too. So it's like, put on a couple of pounds and look hot, right? But it's like, dude, our generation, like the 90s, the supermodels who our role models were friggin osteopenic.
- [18:46]
C
I'm sure, I'm sure. I mean, look, I remember. It's funny, I was cleaning out a bunch of stuff and I have these like file cabinets because I'm still. Whatever. My husband's like, how do you have paper? Every part of your life is so streamlined. How do you still have paper? But I used to keep notes of what I would eat. It was really bad. And I would be like half of banana, green muffin, coffee, cappuccino. And then it would be like dinner. Sweet potato, spinach. And that was like my day of eating. And then I'd be like, work out on the whatever, the Stairmaster for an hour and a half until I sweat it up. And that was literally what that time period was. And it's so screwed up and sick. So I get really happy when I see young women, like, strength training and paying attention and ignoring the stupidity.
- [19:34]
B
To me, the Dex is a wake up call too, of like, that is
- [19:37]
C
a little scary one.
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B
I know I'm mid-40s.
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C
Can you reverse some of that or. No, that's.
- [19:44]
B
That's the goal. That anything now it's like, you know, keep an eye on it every year to make sure you're not losing ground.
- [19:49]
C
Yeah.
- [19:50]
B
Biggest percentage of bone loss is the two years up to your period ending. So it's like, get the DEXA now. Even if insurance doesn't cover it. 80 cash and I'm in Washington state. But it's like, know where you are. Because now I'm like, dude, muscle, muscle, muscle, muscle, muscle.
- [20:07]
C
Well, you know what's funny about it though, is that I had an appointment for June. They're rescheduling me now. But the place that did it, they got rid of their machine. I'm like, what? You should be tripling the machine. We're sending people to it because it's one of these, like, radiology Places. So I'm wondering what other kind of places have that machine that is going to be accessible to people? Because the body composition machine I've done before, because that was inside of a doctor's office. Seems like a lot of doctors have that now.
- [20:30]
B
Yeah. So body comp doesn't require X ray. When I was in Sydney in Australia for the Sydney Opera House, I actually got my femur ultrasounded. So there's an ultrasound that's tried. Cause they're like X rays. Difficult for a lot of people to build an X ray room. Right? Like, it's. This is a. I Forget. It's like 60 or $80,000 to buy this thing. But it not only shows. It not only measures density, which is what DEXA does, but it measures strength. So in Sydney, Australia, this guy did my femur and he's like, it is showing some issues with density, but it's showing a very strong bone.
- [21:06]
C
Okay, so you already knew there was something maybe.
- [21:08]
B
So I already knew. I was like, okay, what is this gonna look like on dexa? And so the DEXA showed osteopenia, but DEXA doesn't measure strength.
- [21:15]
C
Wow, that's so fascinating.
- [21:16]
B
It's super interesting.
- [21:17]
C
Yeah. All right, I'm gonna have to start jumping.
- [21:19]
B
This is. All right, basically the title of this podcast is Everybody get a DEXA and read how to Menopause.
- [21:24]
C
Get your Dexa.
- [21:25]
B
One thing that I wanna ask you about is you're. I mean, you're at the top of your game. Like, you got the Emmys, you got the New York City anchor chair, worked your way up from other states, and, like, you got to the pinnacle and then you effing quit. But I'd be like, dude, your career now is bigger than it was as a news anchor. That's my opinion. But it's like, dude, you're producing, you are creating, you're writing, you're traveling. Like, it's bigger and I would say influencing. Like, who watches the New York City news? People in New York now. This is the world. Did you see that coming? That you're like, I'm gonna quit this and be bigger and better than ever?
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C
No, you knew me. You knew me. You knew me. Both things. I was petrified. No, I just knew that every single day that I woke up, this is the only thing I could focus on. Like, it was. It. I was. You know, I was filming the documentary while I was at work, and I was, like, at work from 2pm to 11:30 every day. During all that, most of the time, you knew me. And then in between, there is when I was doing the documentary, and then I just was so obsessed with this conversation and the space, and I really. I really came into it through the midlife lens, I think, early on, like, oh, as we age. As we age. And then when I was like, what in the world? How is this the one story that I never told in being a journalist for that long? And I just couldn't get it out of my head. And then when the documentary happened, I mean, you know, I was like, I don't know where it's all going to go. I don't know what's going to happen. But I would really be grateful if you do an interview. I mean, really, that's how we did this. It's been very grassroots. You know that better than anybody. And then, even with the book, I was like, well, I'm going to, you know, take as many questions as I can get, pull it together and do a bunch of interviews. I really wasn't. So, no, I think I still, every once in a while, get up in the morning, and I'm like, what do we have to do next?
- [23:18]
B
Like, in a panic?
- [23:19]
C
Because I feel like this conversation. There's so many women to try to help, but I had no idea where I was going when I left. A lot of people thought it was crazy and it was scary because that's the only thing I'd ever known. But I definitely knew that. That this was that purpose thing. Everybody had. Everyone had always talked about, like, you know, your purpose. And I was like, no, I don't know my purpose.
- [23:39]
B
Right.
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C
But then all of a sudden, like, that happened. I'm like, oh, I guess that's what this is. I don't know. Never.
- [23:44]
A
Isn't that wild?
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B
Like, you're like, you know, the people who say, like, your purpose finds you when you're hard at work, or you're like, your purpose finds you when you're not paying attention to it ever. Why do you think this topic was, like, an obsessive topic to you? What?
- [23:56]
C
I mean, Kelly, I've covered so many things. Like, I've been to Afghanistan. I've been to all over the world covering, you know, war and following our troops and doing investigative journalism and, you know, helping police with things. You know what I mean? Like, I've done so much entertainment. I don't know. You know, I think because it was personal, really personal. I think because I was seeing the number of women suffering, and I think that I really felt crazy. Like, I really felt like something was wrong, really really wrong with me. And I often wonder, not to go too far off, but I also often wonder, like, was this always going to happen? Like, I lost my mom at an early age. You know, I lost her at 51. I was 20 years old at the time. She was 51. Like, so young now. And I look at it, though I didn't realize it then. And I always wonder if, like, that was going to be my full circle thing. I don't know. It wasn't. I mean, I did a lot of breast cancer advocacy, but nothing like this. Like, nothing like this. So I don't know. I just never have written this. It's funny now if I go, you know, I used to be where I would go someplace and go to a dinner or whatever, and people be like, oh, what's the most famous person you've interviewed? Or, what's the best story you've ever told? Or whatever. And now it's like, hey, listen, I am, like, sweating. I, like, just feel awful. And then my doctor and I was like, oh, I totally changed. My husband's like, does everyone just talk to you about menopause?
- [25:22]
B
Right. Right now? Like, you've, like, identified as a safe sounding board, and people just know that for you.
- [25:29]
C
I hope so. I hope so.
- [25:30]
B
Welcome to being a doctor, my friend.
- [25:33]
C
I know. I was like, no, I always. I always preface it.
- [25:35]
B
I'm not a doctor. That's awesome, dude. So we met at the first swell event in New York City. I was thinking about. I was thinking about this while I was reading your book because you had mentioned that event in the book.
- [25:47]
C
Yeah.
- [25:47]
B
And so I was thinking back to it, and you wore the most gorgeous green. I'm like, looking around for the green. The most gorgeous green suit.
- [25:56]
C
My highlighter suit.
- [25:58]
B
I'm like, oh, if you remember the suit. I remember this suit. Like, you came in because you were gonna. They're like, she's gonna interview Katie Couric. And I'm like, I just know we need to be friends. Like, you know, they scan the room and you're like, that person. I'm like, damn, that suit. It's amazing.
- [26:13]
C
I'm so glad you scanned for me.
- [26:16]
B
So the way the book sounded like Alyssa just called you up the night before and was like, can you swing over?
- [26:21]
A
Yeah.
- [26:22]
C
It was like, literally the night or two before, she was like, I think she called, like, somebody on my table, like, the PR person or somebody at the station or something. And she was like, could you do an interview with a panel we have for this event? And I was like, yeah, who's on the panel? She was like, Katie Couric, Naomi Watts and Natalie Nixon. And I was like, I'm interviewing Katie
- [26:44]
B
Couric and Naomi Watts tomorrow. Yeah. It was like.
- [26:47]
C
I don't know. It was like, literally that week. And I go, okay, do we know what they want to talk about? Like, you know what? So I couldn't even believe it. And then they were just both, like, so kind and so, like, I know Katie, but I didn't know Naomi. So we're both like, it was great. It was great. But then, you know, honestly, because Katie is, like, ahead of me a bit from. In news. Like, you know, she was like, somebody always looked up to. So to interview her. Like, it's one thing having a conversation with another thing interviewing Katie Couric. So I was like, oh, I was real all bold. And then I'm like, oh, crap, it's Katie Couric. I gotta really study for this and really be prepared. And then, of course, like, it totally. Every time I've ever done a panel, it totally just, like, goes way off the notes. It never. I never stick to it. So now I just, like, I don't even.
- [27:34]
B
That's what makes them fun. Yeah.
- [27:36]
C
I don't even bring notes anymore because, you know, it's never gonna go that way. I mean, you know. You know how it goes.
- [27:41]
B
Yeah. I love it. When. When we did that event, that was like, 22. Yes. I want to say, were you already, like, where were you in the grip of the menopause culture and, like, knowing your calling at that event?
- [27:55]
C
Well, I was still working, for sure. And I think at that point, I had just sold the book, if I'm not mistaken, like. Or I just, like, started going out there with it, and then with the documentary, I think we were just starting to have the conversation about what it was going to look like. But I hadn't even partnered with Denise yet. My other partners in la, we were still shooting on our iPhones. We're going out in Times Square, like, shooting on our iPhones. I'd like.
- [28:21]
B
I'm meaning to ask you this anyways, but where are you with. We talked about the documentary a while ago.
- [28:25]
C
You're.
- [28:26]
B
We're working on international rights.
- [28:28]
C
I'm actually thinking of maybe doing something where we do, like, a big, huge event to show it. So I'm thinking of that for.
- [28:36]
B
Is it in Canada? Has Canada seen much of this? Some of Canada has, like, shout out to the Canadians. Like, Canadians are, like, amazing. 10% of my following. It's like, which probably means all of the women in Canada based.
- [28:50]
C
I know, I love it.
- [28:52]
B
Let's do a Toronto and a Vancouver.
- [28:54]
C
I would love that. Toronto. I've got a huge. A ton of people asking. So, yeah, I'm with you.
- [28:59]
B
Be super fun. What advice would you give people on how to. And this is like, your journey. And then in writing the book, how do you find the right doctor for perimenopause slash menopause?
- [29:10]
C
Well, first of all, it's obviously, if it's somebody that is telling you that it's trending.
- [29:13]
B
Trending, that's a. That's a warning that.
- [29:16]
C
Isn't that ridiculous? It's so insulting.
- [29:18]
B
Well, when people are like, everything's perimenopause, it's like, well, it does happen to every single woman, so it does need to be considered.
- [29:24]
C
Yeah. 10 things. You know, you're blaming your hormones. Everything's perimenopause. You're too young for it. Any of those. You know, listen, I'm a big advocate of telemedicine, like a telehealth. I think it's great. But I also think that you've got to find a doctor, and you know this better than anybody that is committed to this space, too. I think it's really important. I think it's important to be up on what's next. I think it's important to know what research is going on. I think it's important that you don't feel like you always have to know more, because I think that can make you not feel quite so confident. And so I think that's important. I think I want to go in there and know that that doctor knows more than I do about the this.
- [30:01]
B
Yeah, sometimes it's easier. It's kind of like sex. You see, everybody know what you want with sex, but you know what you don't want with sex. But it's like with doctors, it's like. Like, this is what we always do. Like, for people to have enough expertise to be like, no, sometimes we got to use this and sometimes we got to use that, and sometimes you need a different dose.
- [30:18]
C
They can talk to me about all these different things. I want them to work with me on stuff. Not that this is it.
- [30:23]
B
It's it.
- [30:24]
C
Because we know that it's not like, just sheerly from the research, just sheerly from the lack of information and education. We know that nobody has all the answers.
- [30:33]
B
Yeah, totally. So in your research for the book, for your podcast, for the documentary, was there anything that, like, shocked you or made you like specifically angry about the whole situation.
- [30:42]
C
Oh, I mean, I think, you know, what happened with the Women's Health Study. And I, you know, and really, I think the big part that the media plays in a lot of this, that the media, you know, with misinterpretation of a lot of the data and then the headlines never got big again. You know what I mean? Even when we walk back a lot of that data, the headlines never got big. And so I feel like when I see that, maybe that's a little bit reason why this kind of dug into me too.
- [31:03]
B
It's kind of like me being a doctor and being. Realizing how shitty it is if it's for you. Like, dude, your media played a huge part in this.
- [31:10]
C
A huge part in this. And so I think that that part was also like, I mean, I'm not solely responsible for the media landscape, but. But I do feel like, how was that possible? And that made me really angry. And then I. I think what also made me really angry is the fact that we haven't seen any numbers tick back up of women getting help. And then I know there were a lot of doctors during that time that were still trying to pres. One of them said to me, and she wasn't in the documentary, but she said to me that, like, that they had a. Like the patients actually had a sign, something that said like, yes, I understand the dangers or whatever of hormone therapy. They had to. And I didn't. I had no idea that any of that was going on. So I think that really pissed me off. And I think what also made me really mad is the fact that women felt so ashamed. And so we had, you know, so many stories that we couldn't put it in because it was only an hour long. But it may be, I guess, like, when I think about, like, wow, my mom never said anything. My mom was going through chemo and everything at the same time, so obviously went into a medical menopause and she never said a thing. I don't even know if she knew. I actually don't know if she knew. That's the truth. So that makes me really sad. And so I think, like, I always do all these things in name of, in honor of, in hope of that if there's another Tamson out there who's, you know, 14 years old, watching their mom go through that, that, that there are some answers.
- [32:27]
B
That's super sweet. I got a message from a woman this week. She spent $15,000 on lasers, radio frequency ablation, the O shot, very expensive vibrators. Trying to fix her general urinary syndrome of menopause. She's triple negative breast cancer. We know vaginal estrogen is completely safe. We actually have pretty good data to say that systemic hormone doesn't increase risk of recurrence over baseline for triple negative. We have that information. I'm like, she has spent 15. It's one thing if you spend 15 grand and you get something good for it, sure. Not if you're still suffering, not if it's done nothing. And to me, I'm like, dude, number one, low hanging fruit, vaginal estrogen. Number two, you could probably be on like, for how bad her situation sounds, she could probably be on systemic hormones with no increased risk. And I'm like, number one, it's the silence around simple stuff that works. And number two, the unethical predatory behavior of selling hope and dreams in the form of lasers and expensive vibrators when they don't work as well.
- [33:33]
C
Well, and that's the other thing. And I think that we've got to pay attention to, right. Of what's going on out there because we're going to see more and more, more, more, more. And I think that that always worries me, you know, that really it does worry me. I'm very aware of it. I, I'm aware of what I get fed on a daily basis and. But I go, oh, what? Okay, wait, Tamsen, you know better, like, you know, I, I'm very aware of that. I'm very aware of the hope and dream, the hope and dream of everything being fine and of one magic quick fix. And we know that's not the case. And so I think that's probably why it's so important. The education part of that is so important. It's why that's what I love what you do, is that education is so necessary for a hundred different reasons, but for the symptoms of it, for just feeling better overall, but also for the management of all those incoming. Because we're only going to see it get more and bigger and bigger and bigger in terms of people realizing the money to be made.
- [34:24]
B
Yeah, yeah. I think, I mean, it's the good and the bad of like, hey, menopause is a huge market. Great.
- [34:30]
C
Yeah.
- [34:30]
B
But there's like the sharks are going to come as well. Right? Like there's blood in the water, there's a lot of suffering. And that's what the education is. I mean, I, you know, I had. This was down. This was at south by Southwest at one of Elisa's events. A woman had said she had Built a special cabinet in her kitchen for her supplements, trying to solve, basically, GSM and painful sex, amongst other things. And she was so afraid of vaginal estrogen, and so she's basically like, what else? What other supplements are there? And I'm like, vaginal estrogen. Right, right, right. It's like the education, but then it's. It's literally, you know, and this is how brains work is. Like, once people are convinced of something, we told them to be afraid of this, it's very hard to undo that.
- [35:14]
C
We tell them over and over and over and over to be afraid of. Of this. That's the problem for years. And then any walk back was like, hey, it's not so bad. So as much as we think we talk about it, it could never be enough. You know what I mean? It's got to be over and over and over again, because we have year with decades to make up.
- [35:32]
B
Yeah. Like, the definition of an expert is somebody who's okay saying the exact same thing over and over and over again. Like, all right, we figured out the Collier. Yeah, we figured out my career to wrap up. I love. You know, in the book, you prioritize Mindse, because again, it's like, just like people told us to be afraid of hormones. People told us that menopause is shitty. And. And physically, it's not a great time. But, like, when people figure out, I get to make this what I want to make of this, I get to use this up as an opportunity to, like, look at what you do with your career. Like, it's insane. Right? The amount, by the way, the amount of women who've told me they've started companies after starting testosterone is not zero.
- [36:14]
C
It's really awesome to see though, right? It's like one example after another of women, like, going, oh, ye. I'm not done yet. What are you talking about? And I do think that a mindset is super important. I don't think we can pull anything away from each other. I really think that this time in Life is a 360, and I think that it all kind of comes together. So I look forward to a day where it's not all separated because I do really believe there's all of it. And that's why I couldn't stop writing with the book. The publishers were like, okay, okay, we got enough chapters. But I really did think that we couldn't separate, obviously, sex and brain and movement and sleep. But we also couldn't separate mindset and workplace. And what happens next in that next season, which I think is just so incredible. And we can't just tell women that, hey, it's gonna be better on the other side. We have to show them. And so I really wanted to, like, find, like, I could have written a whole other book about that. Like, there's all these different examples. And so I just think that it's encouraging to see. And I think we're going to see so much more. And I believe that some of the answers that we're looking for are gonna come out of those women that are on the other side of this in that space season. And that's what gets me excited.
- [37:20]
B
Yeah, I absolutely love it. Like, I could combine, like, what's happening with, like, the badassery of the Gen X and like, the elder millennials are coming on board now. And it's just like. And then the boomers are like, oh, can I get. Can I get my piece too? And we're like.
- [37:33]
C
And we're all like, yeah, that's a cool thing. Like, I feel like there really is a respect, right, with all these different generations. And I don't know that there's been that for a long time. Every. It's them. I'm gonna be like my parents. Well, I want somebody to be like, I'm gonna be like my parents. Like, that's pretty awesome, you know, to be. Oh, I wanna be kick ass like my mom or my aunt or my sister. That's pretty cool.
- [37:55]
A
Yeah.
- [37:55]
C
So we're the kick ass ones.
- [37:57]
B
I think so. I think so. How to menopause. Brilliant book. So glad it's out there. Buy the book and bring it to your doctor is my advice because it sounds so cheesy, but, like, doctors love reading and we love info and like, when people bring us stuff, we actually, we do read it.
- [38:15]
C
I love.
- [38:16]
B
So thank you so much for coming on the podcast today.
- [38:18]
C
Thank you.
- [38:19]
B
Lovely to chat with you. I know soon we have some fun stuff planned. We do this fall. This fall coming soon. All right, everybody, thanks. And until next time, you are not broken. Love you.
- [38:31]
A
Thank you for listening to this week's episode of you are not broken. If you want to dig deeper with me, sign up for my adult sex education masterclass where you learn adult things. Things like communication skills, anatomy lessons and desire types, and how to talk to your doctor about sexual health concerns. If you want the adult sex education masterclass for free, join my monthly membership for more in depth exclusive content, more time with yours truly. A private podcast, coaching and educational empowerment. And you can watch my interviews live and get them immediately without advertising. Head over to www.kellycaspersonmd.com for the membership and Adult Sex Ed Masterclass members get the Master class for free. This podcast is presented solely for educational, entertainment and informational purposes only. I am a doctor, but not your doctor in this format and all of my platforms and guests including on this podcast are not giving individual medical advice or practicing medicine. See in Consult with your own care team for your individual needs and concerns. This podcast is not intended as a substitute for the care and advice of a physician, therapist, or other qualified professional. This podcast does not constitute the practice of medicine, in case you were curious about that and no doctor patient relationship is formed. But I still love you. Using the information on this podcast or any of my platforms is at your own risk. Until next time. Remember, you are not broken.