306. Naomi Watts - Dare I Say It

Summary

Podcast Summary: You Are Not Broken – Ep. 306

Naomi Watts – Dare I Say It

Date: March 2, 2025
Host: Dr. Kelly Casperson
Guest: Naomi Watts

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Overview

In this episode, Dr. Kelly Casperson welcomes actress, entrepreneur, and now author Naomi Watts to discuss her personal journey through early menopause, her new book Dare I Say It, and her dedication to breaking the silence and stigma around midlife, menopause, and women’s health. The conversation blends Naomi's lived experiences with scientific insights, covering the isolation of infertility, the intersection with perimenopause, the responsibility of public storytelling, and advocacy for more honest health conversations.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Origin and Purpose of Dare I Say It

• Genesis of the Book:
  • Naomi shares how her early menopause left her feeling "quite isolated and scared" (00:39).
  • “There needs to be a handbook... useful, informative, a little bit of fun as well, and sexy, and telling me that it’s not the end and that I’d get myself back eventually.” – Naomi Watts (00:39)
• Blending Storytelling and Science:
  • Dr. Casperson notes Naomi successfully balances personal stories with factual content, making complex medical topics accessible (01:45).

2. Navigating Early Menopause and Infertility

• Experience of Shame and Isolation:
  • “It was enough shame that I wasn’t a natural woman that could reproduce so easily...if I couldn’t reproduce, then what was my worth?” – Naomi Watts (02:10)
• Society’s Messages:
  • The pair discuss the societal pressure and misconceptions, noting how focus often pivots from trying to avoid pregnancy to sudden fertility anxieties in the 30s (02:37).
  • Naomi highlights generational differences in menopause conversations, noting millennials benefit from increased openness (03:08).

3. The Overlap of Infertility and Menopause

• Physical and Emotional Journey:
  • Naomi details how she noticed symptoms “way before” her blood tests confirmed menopause at age 36—night sweats, migraines, irregular periods (05:00).
  • She felt symptoms but “didn’t connect the dots.”
• Medical Community’s Blind Spots:
  • Both discuss frustrations with healthcare’s failure to recognize and act on key symptoms, like checked boxes for night sweats being ignored (05:44; 06:12):
    • “What’s the point of these intake forms if nobody’s doing anything about them?” – Naomi Watts (05:44)
    • “We get really used to suffering as women. We’re programmed to suck it up.” – Naomi Watts (06:31)

4. The Unique Pressures of Life in the Spotlight

• Industry Requirements:
  • Actors undergo varying medical exams before projects. Naomi describes being classified as an “essential element” for movie insurance (07:18).
  • Dr. Casperson finds this niche medical practice both fascinating and illuminating.

5. Underdiagnosed Symptoms and Pelvic Health

• UTIs & Pelvic Menopause:

  • Naomi’s persistent UTIs and her struggle to find answers exemplify the systemic gaps:
    • “I went to different doctors and they put me on different forms of antibiotics...I don’t think I really got a handle on them until I spoke to you.” – Naomi Watts (08:26)
  • Emphasizes the need for proper pelvic health education and trusting specialists (09:28).

• Vaginal Estrogen Taboo:

  • Both discuss the double shame around hormone changes and genital health (10:01), with Naomi recalling confusion when first prescribed vaginal estrogen postpartum (10:14).
    • Her doctor (still her OB-GYN in NYC) continues to use HRT herself, reinforcing its value (10:14).

6. Accessibility and Advocacy

• Barriers to Care:
  • Naomi, despite her “access,” struggled for years—highlighting how much harder it is for those with fewer resources:
    • “I think about ... my woman in Kansas,...Saudi Arabia,...Kentucky…this is why the books and the podcasts and the Instagram are important, because they don’t have the access.” – Dr. Casperson (10:46)
  • Naomi encourages women to self-educate, prepare for appointments, and not accept gatekeeping from providers (11:36).

7. Hormone Therapy: Shifting Narratives & Risks

• Risk/Benefit Discussion:
  • Naomi is careful to stress individual decision-making; burden of proof and action shouldn’t fall solely on women, but often does (12:32; 12:59).
• Historical/Hormonal Context:
  • The episode traces hormone therapy's fluctuating reputation, media-driven fear (see the 2002 WHI study), and gradual return of confidence (24:47).

8. Surprises and Learning from the Menopause Journey

• “Scalp to Vag” – Full-Body Impact:
  • Naomi discusses the surprising link between estrogen decline and skin issues everywhere, not just reproductive organs (13:24).
    • “Again, it’s all connected from scalp to vag. We say at Stripes Beauty.” – Naomi Watts (13:24)
• Anti-Aging Messaging Critique:
  • Both slam “anti-aging” as a harmful myth (“It’s against the laws of physics to not age...” – Dr. Casperson, 15:35).
    • “Aging is living, and it’s a privilege to be alive.” – Naomi Watts (16:11)

9. Representation, Career, and Reinvention in Midlife

• Changing Tides in Hollywood:
  • Naomi: “Look at the big films right now and the Academy Award nominees. Incredible women in their 50s driving stories.” (16:48)
  • She shares the harsh warning she received early in her career:
    • “...you better work, work, work, because it’ll all be over at 40.” (17:04)
    • “No one really wants to see you on screen if you’re unfuckable.” (17:15)
• Women’s Power in Media:
  • The increase in female producers, directors, and storytellers is reshaping representation and opening space for authentic narratives (21:16; 21:43).

10. Redefining Possibility in Midlife

• Personal and Professional Growth:
  • Naomi celebrates starting her brand, writing a book, and getting married in her 50s (22:23).
    • “You can think outside the box and take a chance on yourself based on the fact that you’ve had experiences.” (22:41)
• Lifelong Reinvention:
  • "I know what failure looks like...and I managed to find a way to repair, move through it and take on something else new. So why not?" – Naomi Watts (22:41)

11. Community, Education, and the Swell Conference

• Power of Shared Stories:
  • Naomi finds meaning in seeing women “finally feeling seen” and using her advocacy to empower others (28:30).
    • “They want to say thank you for giving me permission, giving me the dialogue to speak to my partner about what I’m going through...” – Naomi Watts (29:49)
• Importance of Honest Storytelling:
  • Both agree that “stories are everything” in bridging knowledge gaps and reducing isolation (30:20).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Shame and Self-Worth:

  “If I couldn’t reproduce, then what was my worth? ... Ridiculous ideology stuff we put...on ourselves.”
  — Naomi Watts (02:10)

• On Cultural Silence:

  “We get really used to suffering as women...We are programmed to suck it up.”
  — Naomi Watts (06:31)

• On Anti-Aging:

  “Aging is living and it’s a privilege to be alive.”
  — Naomi Watts (16:11)

• On Reinvention:

  “You can think outside the box and take a chance on yourself...I know what failure looks like. I managed to find a way to repair, move through it and take on something else new. So why not?”
  — Naomi Watts (22:41)

• On Community:

  “Making a difference for one person who might tell her friend, who might tell their friend — that’s what I’ve always wanted to do.”
  — Naomi Watts (29:49)

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Key Segment Timestamps

• 00:39 – Naomi on the loneliness of early menopause and the impetus for her book
• 02:10 – Intersection of shame, infertility, and societal expectations
• 05:00 – Recognizing symptoms and missed medical opportunities
• 08:26 – Chronic UTIs, misunderstood menopause symptoms
• 10:01 – Vaginal estrogen, taboos, and her doctor’s approach
• 11:36 – Navigating healthcare barriers and advocating for oneself
• 13:24 – Skin changes, “scalp to vag,” and the Stripes Beauty brand ethos
• 16:11 – Critique of anti-aging and embracing midlife
• 17:04 – Hollywood’s age bias and language of misogyny
• 21:16 – Impact of female leadership in film/TV on representation
• 22:23 – Redefining possibility in midlife (book, business, marriage)
• 28:30 – Power of collective education, the Swell conferences
• 29:49 – Stories as catalysts for personal and cultural change

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Conclusion

This episode is both deeply personal and widely relevant, weaving Naomi Watts’s vulnerability, humor, and wisdom with Dr. Casperson’s clinical insight. Together they dismantle menopause taboos, champion self-advocacy, and model what an open, factual, and empowering conversation about midlife can be. For listeners seeking validation, inspiration, or actionable advice — this episode delivers, reminding us all: You are not broken.

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Resources Mentioned:

• Dare I Say It by Naomi Watts
• Stripes Beauty (Naomi’s skincare brand)
• Articles by Susan Dominus (NYT)
• Additional experts: Dr. Sharon Malone, Dr. Mary Claire Haver, Dr. Salas Whelan, Dr. Marie Claire Avram, Carol Avram, “Estrogen Matters”
• The Swell Conference (Stripes & Community Education Event)

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Transcript

[Naomi Watts]

Foreign.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Welcome to the you are not broken podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Kelly Casperson, a board certified urologist, thought leader and conversation starter on midlife living, hormones and sexuality. Enjoy the show.

Hey everybody. Welcome back to the you're not broken podcast. Today we're going to talk about menopause life in the spotlight with Naomi Watts and her new book, dare I say it. Welcome.

[Naomi Watts]

Thanks Kelly. So good to be here.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

You've been working on this book for a while. I got to meet you. I was actually thinking today, when was the first swell conference? 22?

[Naomi Watts]

Yeah, I believe so. And before that I was researching and developing my company Stripes Beauty. So definitely. And even before that I had talked to a friend about writing this book, the book I wish I had when I was going through early menopause and feeling quite isolated and scared. And I thought there needs to be a handbook because even the Internet was not active like it is today. So I was not really getting far in conversations with friends. Doctors didn't seem to know a whole lot. And so I felt really lonely and wished there was some kind of guide book that was useful, informative, but a little bit of fun as well and sexy and like telling me that it's not the end and that I'd get myself back eventually. So I sat on that idea for a very, very, very long time. You know, I didn't ever think of myself as being a writer. Yes, I'm a storyteller, different kind, but yeah. So took a while to pluck up the nerve.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

It's beautiful that you blend storytelling with science and fact. Right. So it's not so heavy handed of like here's the 200 things of facts about menopause. But it's like it's tied in with stories and your journey and you great privilege or horror, however you want to say it, of doing, of intersecting infertility with menopause kind of at the same time. And those are both isolating experiences.

[Naomi Watts]

Yeah. I mean it was enough shame that I wasn't a natural woman that could reproduce so easily whenever I wanted. So I went through all of that with my partner who was very supportive, my partner at the time. But I still didn't feel relaxed at all. I felt nervous that, you know, if I couldn't reproduce, then what was my worth? You know, ridiculous ideology stuff we put

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

on our society, puts on us.

[Naomi Watts]

Right.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I think we spend our whole adult years trying not to get pregnant. I want your opinion on this because I have so many, so many people our age, they're like, I Wish I knew. I wish somebody told me. I wish I had this. And then. So, like, the people who are trying to tell the younger women, like, they don't want to hear it, man. Like, there's something about just the younger being, like, that's. That's for, like, way older. And you're like, well, mid-30s is when this starts happening for some people.

[Naomi Watts]

I knew that one's fertility changes at 35, but I didn't know that also means you're probably going to experience some perimenopause symptoms. In fact, I never even heard the word perimenopause until possibly meeting you in that room three, four years ago, so. And it would have been a much nicer word, much more gentle. I just got told close to menopause panic. But not to contradict you, but I do find that the millennials who are just skirting the edges of menopause now, they are feeling a sense of relief, as what I can gather, that they're like, oh, wow, that's cool. I don't have to do all this legwork. You guys did it for us. When I speak to my mother's generation, some of them are like, oh, what's all the nonsense about? It was fine. I sailed through. But I think they've forgotten, truthfully, a lot of them. But, yeah, you get different opinions about it, but for the most part, I think they're pleased that we have opened the conversation and taken a lot of the shame away.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I was talking. I was at the Menopause society conference in 2024 and was talking to, like, a reproductive endocrinologist, so people who help with Infert. And I went up to him and I said, listen, this is my theory, and there's no data on it. I'm like, but women who have. Have children older, like, their body's like, here's your child.

[Naomi Watts]

Boom.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Menopause. Like, it just go. It's like this final, like, let's get this baby made and done. And then the body's like, and menopause. And I'm like, I've never read this. I just see so many women go through it. And the reproductive endocrinologist was like, oh, yeah, that's a thing. We see it, too, but it's not published on, like, there's no, like, scientific data on it, but there's something about, like, having that child older. And then the body's like, and we're done.

[Naomi Watts]

Really? Wow. It just suddenly. Well, that's what happened to me. I suddenly went Straight into it at the minute I finished breastfeeding my second child. But, like, you know, and we've spoken about it before, but for the listeners, I was experiencing symptoms way before, before I even had my blood taken. And my doctor said that I was close to menopause at 36. I was having night sweats, I was having migraines, and I was having irregular periods. So the writing was on the wall. I just didn't connect the dots. And it wasn't until that fertility diagnosis was given to me that I really understood it. And still it took a lot of time to understand the multitude of symptoms that came afterwards.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

One thing that I was shocked with, the doctor parts in your book stick out to me. And two of them, the first one, which has to do with this, is you are checking night sweats on all of the intake forms for years. And then you're like, what's the point of the stupid intake forms if nobody's doing anything about them in the first place? But it wasn't like you were like, I'm fine over here. Like, you were filling them out, truthfully. And nobody ever did anything about it.

[Naomi Watts]

No. I mean, it really was just chalked up to an allergy to something. PMS or. Yeah.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I think it's also the dismissal of women of, like, it's not that bad, though, right? Like, your nights aren't that bad, though. And, like, you have to, like, fight for your suffering instead of being just believed.

[Naomi Watts]

I mean, this is the thing. And we go into it in the book of everyone's books out there speaking to this. I think that we get really used to suffering as women. And, I mean, you speak in the book about it. Have you suffered enough? And right from our early days of having cramps and we're used to it, and so we expect it. And we don't want to complain. We are programmed to suck it up.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Yeah. Especially you don't want to worry that it's going to be threatening your job possibilities or being taken as somebody who can do hard things. The other thing that was super interesting just from, like, an industry standpoint to me, was that actors have to get physical exams before every movie.

[Naomi Watts]

Yeah.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Is that, like, illegal? Like, we legally sign off, she's fit for the job?

[Naomi Watts]

Well, sometimes it's very. I mean, they're always mandatory, but some are more comprehensive than others. As much as peeing in a jar or an EKG or some are just tap the knee and look in the air and down the throat and, you know, tick, tick, tick. As long as you can do all that. But when the movie is financed on your name, you're called what's an essential element. So there's an insurance thing that they really have to cover themselves that you're not walking in with a whole litany of.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Yeah, that was super fascinating to me. I'm like, ha. Who ends up being the doctor who's like, I okay people for films. It's just like a fascinating niche. The other thing that, you know, we talked about previously and you explain in your book so nicely of like, you weren't just having like a urinary tract infection, it was disrupting your life. Chronic and chronic and chronic. And how you want. Would you share? Because that's something, you know, my world is like tying both menopause in with like the basically pelvic menopause for. We don't want to say GSM because it's too long of a word, but like, people don't understand how that's tied to changing hormones.

[Naomi Watts]

Yeah. And I knew of UTIs from my twenties, but a few of them and I've friends who had them and I remember the euphemism, it was called honeymooners disease or something and too much sex or. But I didn't realize that it was coming for me in menopause. And I just didn't understand what was going on. I went to different doctors and they put me on different forms of antibiotics. And then it showed that I was resistant to the antibiotics. I kind of was just running around in circles. I was taking supplements which were making me bloat and have digestive issues. Real painful experience. And really, to be honest, Kelly, I don't think I really got a handle on them until I spoke to you when I was interviewing you for the book. So I kind of got a free. A free.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

You deserved it after years of no answers.

[Naomi Watts]

Yeah, well, that's the thing. Unless you have someone. I have to take my socks off. Sorry, I'm overheating. Unless you are seeing someone who is properly educated on these things, then you are going to be running around in circles. You have to advocate for yourself and be the CEO of your own body and piecemeal it together. Unless you are lucky enough to get in the room and have access to a specialist, someone who's properly educated on this. Otherwise, yeah, you'll suffer for months.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Totally. Vaginal estrogen is like this. It's like this double shame too, because it's like, oh, number one, your hormones are changing. Number two, this is like private parts. And so it's like Completely not discussed.

[Naomi Watts]

Yeah. And I remember actually when I had my second baby, here's an overshare. My doctor, my ob, gave me a tube of estrogen, and I was like, really? Why? And I didn't get it. But looking back, you know, now that I'm educated on estrogen, this is also the doctor who treats me now. I live in New York City, and she's, I think 70 or over now by now, and she says she'll be using her HRT to the end.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Yeah. So many, so many women, they're like, bury me with it or burn me with it. However I'm going out, like, I'm taking it with me. What was really concerning to me in reading your book is realizing, like, you have access. Like, you probably have access to, like, the best doctors in the world. Like, you're highly connected, you know, people who know people who know people. Right. And I think about that and I'm like, look at what she had to go through with this perceived amount of access. And then I think of my woman in Kansas and my woman in Saudi Arabia and my woman in Kentucky, and like, all of these people where I'm like, this is why the books and the podcasts and the Instagram are important, because they don't have the access. What do you think about it being such a big problem?

[Naomi Watts]

Yeah, I think there's reading that you can do before you go to your GP or gynecologist. And you should get educated. And yes, find the doctors online that you trust. Obviously, be prepared when you go into that consult with your medical history, with your questions, with your symptoms, your family's medical history, obviously. And a great article that Susan Dominus wrote a couple years ago, the New York Times is a great one to read and get educated. And, you know, it's not going to be everyone's choice to go on HRT or safe for everyone, I suppose. But that's a conversation that you have to have and you have to make sure your doctor is willing to go there. I just don't love the gatekeeping. And if they are, it's probably because they're not educated enough themselves. And so that might be the time to switch providers.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Yeah, that's the exact same advice that I give people. And it still breaks my heart because it's like, it puts so much more burden on a woman to have to go see another opinion where I'm like, guys don't have to do that as much. But I really do think the tide is turning. Like, doctors are learning. Doctors care a lot but the more women that come in and say, hey, I think we should try this, the more the doctors, doctors are like, oh, this is safe, this is necessary.

[Naomi Watts]

Yeah. And just know that there's risk benefit with every single medication and how bad are your symptoms? How much are you suffering? That if the benefits of hormone therapy are going to outweigh, then I say go for it. And it's safe for you, obviously.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Yeah, absolutely. What was like your most surprising thing you learned about menopause when you were researching to write this book? Was there something you were like, no way.

[Naomi Watts]

Well, the skin. And again, it's all connected to from scalp to vag. We say it stripes, beauty. And we've got our vaginal moisturizer and lube.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

What do I have? I have this. I have this next to me. I have the full Monty next to me.

[Naomi Watts]

Yes, the full Monty. That's a great body oil.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

That's the body oil. And look, I have my stripes water bottle. I think this is from the first swell conference.

[Naomi Watts]

Yeah, you're an og.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I'm an og. I have an OG water bottle.

[Naomi Watts]

But yeah, the skin. I was battling skin issues and every day on camera with red, angry, raw, irritated skin and I didn't know what to do. I got given cortisone cream from the dermatologist. It was again a short term fix and it just would keep going. And so I had to change up my ingredients to much gentler things. And I really just started researching it and became fascinated by ingredients. And I was like, okay, I'm getting knowledgeable on this and I'm also looking around and seeing these brands. Some of them are great and some of them are helpful and some of them are just kind of pissing me off because they're telling me I can look like a 25 year old and I don't want to look 25. I didn't like looking 25 when I was 25. I'm going to try to go with what I have right now and I don't suffer falls. I'm not going to look like that again. There's no reversing time. How do I get to my best self? And so I wanted to create a brand that really spoke to her in that place that she was in and in an authentic way and help her feel seen. Because the messaging to your question earlier, it's not the end. That is the most wicked, cruel message out there. It's absolutely not the end. There is so much to do. We're living longer. We need to feel our best and Optimize our health. And that means leaning into it. And so, yeah, I wanted to create a brand and that provided, you know, education, community and hydration.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Hydration. I think it's, it's only been a few years where people have been starting to speak up against this anti aging messaging, which is pervasive and realizing, like it's against the laws of physics to not age. Like it's so impossible. And this branding message of buying all this anti aging flies in the face of what mother Earth does. Right. Like, it's so illogical at some point. And so I think really being like, embrace where you are. Solve the, solve the issues and concerns you have. But there's no anti aging that is even logical.

[Naomi Watts]

Aging is living and it's a privilege to be alive. And so, so that was just a marketing term that worked for a period of time and we've got far more sophisticated now. And so that just can't exist.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Yeah, I mean, I think you were one of the first, I would say groundbreaking of actually talking about this in a public sphere. And now more and more and more women, Gen X, certainly the boomers are coming out and saying, like, we're still here. Our careers are better than ever. The momentum is gathering. I mean, look at the big films right now and the Academy Award nominees.

[Naomi Watts]

I know, it's incredible. Incredible women in their 50s driving stories. You know, when I was told in my early 30s, when I was just getting, just launching with Mulholland Drive, I was told, you better work, work, work, because it'll all be over at 40.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

And who told you that?

[Naomi Watts]

Oh, you know, everyone. It was like producers, agents at the time that I had.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

And so it's kind of like the industry just. That's just a law.

[Naomi Watts]

Yeah, that was, it was, you know, it wasn't a law, but it was like this is the high probability that it'll, you know, no one really wants to see you on screen if you're unfuckable. Was the term unfuckable.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

God, that's so crazy. I don't know if you know this or not, but so in medicine, women don't want to look young because it's discrediting. Because people, people won't believe. You won't be taken as if you have any experience or any knowledge because you look so young.

[Naomi Watts]

I understand that. I've gone into rooms with doctors in their 20s and gone really, you're just a few years older than my kids.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Yeah. And so like in, in the physician forums, it's like, listen, I get Told that I look young a lot. What can I do? Should I wear glasses? Should I cut my hair different? How do you respond appropriately when somebody. Because you don't have to tell anybody how old you are. Right. Like, how do you respond appropriately when somebody says how old are you? So it's like an opposite thing in medicine. And then I got to the point in my career where I was one of the more senior partners. I still look pretty young. I have great skincare, but like, I'm no longer the one who's the youngest. And I'm like, ah, I like being here. I like being in this place. Yeah. People aren't asking me my age all the time. Yeah.

[Naomi Watts]

It's definitely changed a lot. And in the last, as you say, a few years, I think we're seeing that shift take place. But in storytelling. Yeah. I mean, look at Nicole Kidman playing the sexiest role of her Life in over 50. And Pamela Anderson, Demi Moore speaking to aging specifically. So the shift needed to take place and I think it will continue. And our stories matter at every point. So I'm glad to see it take place.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Is it just like a little bit of everything that is explaining the shift?

[Naomi Watts]

Yes. All things coming from every angle, all at once.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Because it's not some person who's like, I decree we employ the 50 year olds. Right, Right. It's like the audiences want it.

[Naomi Watts]

Yeah. Yeah. What do you think the initial thing is that created that change? I honestly think it's because we're living longer. Am I off target there, do you think? I feel like we're living longer. So we demand better health. We're putting our hands up saying, I need treatment. I'm not ashamed to admit that I'm not going to suffer. So that's one piece of it. In storytelling, I think it's the same thing. We want to tell our stories. We are getting treatment. We've got energy, we're still around. We're body works. I've got things to do and I've got experiences. I've got great experiences. I've been through ups and downs. This face tells the story.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Yeah. I mean, I think there's a depth of wisdom in storytellers who are our age and people want that. Like we want good stories. Who's got good stories? The people who've lived long enough. It kind of all comes together and you know, we're all growing up together. And I think especially as far as like healthcare and hormones and like taking care of ourselves, we're seeing our aging parents or Our aging grandparents. And we're starting to question the status quo of, like, is frailty? The only option is doing nothing for years at a time, really what living life is, you know, so we're starting to question. Because now we have so many people who are so much older that we're kind of reflecting on.

[Naomi Watts]

Yeah, that makes total sense. I'm seeing it in my friend's parents with the frailty thing. And so here I am slogging myself in the gym with weights. That is a. I have to do

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Half a pound of muscle is precious.

[Naomi Watts]

Yes, exactly.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

It by default will go away if we aren't doing something to keep it.

[Naomi Watts]

Oh, I. To keep muscles nowadays. I mean, I remember the days where, oh, I don't want to do lift those weights and I don't want to get bulky. No.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Now you're like, please

[Naomi Watts]

let me have a teensy bit of muscle. I have to work so hard to get it.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I know the way your arm looks after a good arm workout. You're like, can you stay that way? Looks really. It looks really nice. Do you think more from your industry, like, women are getting into positions of power, and so that's why we're also seeing age being represented better. Of, like, we've got more directors, we've got more producers, we've got more people being like, these stories matter. I just think it's like, all these different pieces that are coming together to be like, look at this wonderful time right now.

[Naomi Watts]

Yeah. Women running studios. Women. Female producers and like, you say, directors. Yeah. It's all of those things. And I think it's changed in the last five, 10 years. And I think it'll continue to. Will continue to hold space in that way. And it's heartening.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I think the other exciting thing, which is, like, you know, reinforcing your statement of, like, this is an amazing time. Let's make sure you're educated so you can feel good. Because great things can happen. Is like deciding to write a book at any age. You decided to start a skincare company brand.

[Naomi Watts]

Yeah. And get married in my 50s for the first time. Let's not forget that.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Yes.

[Naomi Watts]

There are things you can do.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Yeah. And this old status quo of like, well, you didn't train in branding and marketing and get a college degree when you were 20. What are you doing starting this? Right. Like, we don't think like that anymore.

[Naomi Watts]

No, no. You can think outside the box and take a chance on yourself based on the fact that you've had experiences. I definitely was taking risks early on in My career, but it really was just spaghetti at the wall, you know, it was with naivety all the way. And now I say, well, I know what failure looks like. I've experienced it. And I managed to find a way to repair, move through it and take on something else new. So why not? Let's see what it brings.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Oh, I love that. Are you noticing a shift when people come and talk to you now about, like, their concern about hormone risks or their concern about, you know, menopause stuff? Are you seeing the fear dissipate with these years of education we've been doing, or do you think it's still super pervasive and we have a lot more work to do?

[Naomi Watts]

Yes. So people come to me knowing that I'm in the space now and lock, stock and barrel, I've been here and, you know, they ask me about the best doctor or if I don't know one in that city that they're living in, I can ask one of you guys and for a recommendation. And they want to talk about their symptoms, and they ask me about my experience with hrt. And I always preface it with, I'm not a doctor, I know quite a lot, but I'm still not going to push anything on anyone. But these are the things you should ask for going into your appointment. And like I said before, just, just don't accept gatekeeping, at least not from the conversation. But I am seeing an openness and wasn't that long ago that I had to wait for my progesterone. So again, encouraging that things are changing. Going from this, the whole of the study, and everyone flushing their hormones down the toilet to that percentage of people now going up incrementally. It's not what it was, unfortunately. But, yeah, I say don't fear it, just explore it.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

I know I always joke or I make it a joke because I'm like, what if there was a time when 40% of women were on hormones? And I'm like, it was called the 1990s. Right.

[Naomi Watts]

Not so long ago.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

It's so crazy. We've done this before. We've supported women. We probably weren't perfect. I wasn't practicing in the 90s. We probably weren't perfect, but it was one of the top five most used pharmaceuticals in the nation. 40% of women were on it. Like, it's already happened. We're just trying to, like, get back to the 90s. The 90s are trending.

[Naomi Watts]

Yes, exactly. That's so funny. Yeah. The music, the genes.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Yeah, yeah, totally. So, yeah, to me, I'M like, I'm like, maybe we're just trying to get back to the 90s. And it's not crazy to think many more women can be supported on hormones because we've already done it. We just had such a devastating. I mean, and to your question of that, like the role of the media in creating the fear of hormones in 2002 and you know, what are your thoughts on that? It was, what we know now is that was wrong, but it was like the fear that the media drove into doctors, women that hormones kill you was devastating to. Now we know hundreds of thousands of people.

[Naomi Watts]

Yeah, it was. And yes, more than 20 years on, we're still experiencing doctors who fear it. And even if we're now getting educated in different ways, sometimes our doctors are just not as up to date as we want them to be. But with the work that you've been doing with Dr. Sharon Malone, Mary Clay Haver, you know, the whole group, who am I? I'm here. The menopausity, the menopausy. There's so many great voices out there who helping things. But then there comes like resistance again. And so there's some lack of alignment even amongst you guys and, you know, about what the benefits truly are. And I again, never want to be on a soapbox saying, this is what you must do. Get educated and really, you know, walk in with as many questions based on your medical history and your families and be prepared. And if you've got time, read, read, read. And all of your book. Dr. Salas Whelan is another one of the great doctors, Dr. Marie Claire Avram and Carol Avram, Blooming estrogen matters. And I expect that you will meet resistance along the way and just get granular on it.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Yeah, I actually, I got resistant. I mean, you know this because you're a thought leader in this space. Like, not everybody probably loves what you've created all the time. And some resistance. This week a doctor said that I was saying that doctors aren't doing a good job. And I'm like, well, because we all think we are doing a good job until you actually get on Instagram and you hear all these women reaching out to you, saying how much they're suffering. And then you're like, not all doctors are doing a good job. And we actually have to be able to say that sometimes. And so, yeah, that was this weekend pushback by me doing what I'm doing.

[Naomi Watts]

Right, Right. You can't please everyone.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Can't please everybody. Let's talk about the swell conferences because I think That's a really unique thing that you do. And Stripe prioritizes is it's not just a platform, but it's an educational space where women can be like, this is a trusted venue where we bring in science and we really try to educate. So that you and the swell, Stripes in the Swell have been together now Three. Three years?

[Naomi Watts]

Yeah, we've done. Yeah, three. And we also did one on the west coast as well. So I think we've done four in total.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Very cool. Do you see that continuing? Do you want to continue that?

[Naomi Watts]

Yes, absolutely. And the last one felt like it's such an engaged community. They want to learn. And I think doctors equally want to care. They care about people and they like the idea that they are being useful. Right. It works for everyone. And the community aspect of it, the sharing the stories and women feeling seen finally and has been just so meaningful. I mean, I've felt incredibly charged after those weekend experiences and connecting with women. And equally, sometimes when I go on the street now and I see someone, a stranger coming up to me and I think, oh, God, I haven't got my lippy on and they want a selfie. But no, they want to say thank you for giving me permission, giving me the dialogue to speak to my partner about what I'm going through, I otherwise would have not have known. And that if I've made a difference to one person who might tell her friend, who might tell their friend, that's what I've always wanted to do, is tell stories to help them reflect somebody else's. The truth of what they're going through

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

is like, you've changed somebody else's life because you showed up and you were the most you that you could be. And it's incredibly powerful.

[Naomi Watts]

Well, I've always wished I was a doctor because you guys really are saving lives. And, you know, I'm just like. I hear as an actor wearing somebody else's clothes and saying somebody else's lines of dialogue and like. But it turns out we do have a. A bit of an effect on how someone thinks and sees themselves in the world. So stories are.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Stories are everything. You know, as tale, as old as time before writing. Stories are everything. I think that will never go away. Well, I'll put all the links. The book is, dare I say it,

[Naomi Watts]

Dare I say it. Lots of information in here from experts like you and stories of mine, some incredibly personal and other friends. So hopefully the information in there is useful but not so dense that you lose focus. And hopefully the stories carry you through and make it somewhat fun.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

It's a fun. It's a fun read. You forget your learning. You know, like the best is like you forget your learning because it's a fun read. It's like that's what it is. And I gave away a copy yesterday at an event. I did.

[Naomi Watts]

Oh good. Thank you.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

So we're spreading, spreading the word. Thank you so much for joining us today.

[Naomi Watts]

Good to talk. Thanks for having me.

[Dr. Kelly Casperson]

Thank you for listening to this week's episode of youf Are Not Broken. If you want to dig deeper with me, sign up for my Adult Sex Education Masterclass where you learn adult things like communication skills, anatomy lessons and desire types, and how to talk to your doctor about sexual health concerns. If you want the Adult Sex Education Masterclass for free, join my monthly membership for more in depth exclusive content, more time with yours truly. A private podcast, coaching and educational empowerment and you can watch my interviews live and get them immediately without advertising. Head over to www.kellycaspersonmd.com for the membership and Adult Sex Ed Masterclass members. Get the Master class for free. This podcast is presented solely for educational, entertainment and informational purposes only. I am a doctor, but not your doctor in this format and all of my platforms and guests including on this podcast are not giving individual medical advice or practicing medicine. See and consult with your own care team for your individual needs and concerns. This podcast is not intended as a substitute for the care and advice of a physician, therapist or other qualified professional. This podcast does not constitute the practice of medicine, in case you were curious about that and no doctor patient relationship is formed. But I still love you. Using the information on this podcast or any of my platforms is at your own risk. Until next time, Remember you are not broken.