Sheng Wang

Summary

Podcast Summary: "You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes" – Sheng Wang (May 27, 2026)

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode features comedian Sheng Wang in conversation with Pete Holmes. The heart of the discussion revolves around the "secret weirdness" that makes people unique, particularly through the lens of stand-up comedy and personal philosophy. The two dive deep into mindfulness, creativity, everyday experiences, success, cultural identity, gratitude, and what it means to live authentically and presently—as showcased in Sheng Wang's acclaimed stand-up special "Purple."

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Art of Observing the Everyday (03:11–12:00)

• Pete opens by praising Sheng Wang’s observational style, noting how spending time with his comedy makes you see the world differently. (03:11)
  • Quote: “There's a certain level of success…when people want to talk like you because it's fun.” – Pete Holmes (03:33)
• Sheng Wang ties his comedic voice to a meditative, grounding attention to detail.
  • He compares it to ASMR and photography, where focusing on minutiae keeps you present and reduces anxiety.
  • Quote: “It's grounding. It's tactile. It's immediate. It's real. It's now.” – Sheng Wang (05:13)
  • Quote: “Photography and comedy [are] observing things in your life…like a treasure hunt.” – Sheng Wang (07:59)

Mindfulness, Present-Moment Awareness, and Childlike Wonder (08:23–19:00)

• Eckhart Tolle and Being Present
  • Pete shares how Tolle’s idea of viewing ordinary life as art reframes experiences (“Imagine a window like a picture frame”). (08:23)
  • Both agree attention to “boring” reality creates value and meaning (e.g., Van Gogh painting a chair).
• Managing Anxiety by Focusing on the Mundane
  • They joke about mundane objects triggering unexpected emotions—and how paying attention to those feelings offers insight (11:04–12:36).
• Emotional Resonance in Comedy
  • Pete highlights Sheng’s toaster oven bit as embodying both humor and mortality.
  • Quote: “Your life is shoelaces and toothpicks and wet naps.” – Pete Holmes (15:53)

Success, Peace of Mind & Family Connection (13:43–27:13)

• Reflections on Aging and Lowering Internal Criticism
  • Both comedians talk about how the brain’s tendency to catastrophize lessens with age. (13:26)
  • Quote: “I just wanted more peace in my life. Dude, that’s not necessary.” – Sheng Wang (13:33)
• True Success as Peace – Eddie Murphy Anecdote
  • Quote: “Don’t pray for success. Pray for peace of mind.” – Eddie Murphy (via Pete, 13:45)
• Comedy Bringing Generations Together
  • Sheng shares how unexpected it was, and how gratifying, that his act brings families of all ages together.
  • Quote: "I love that there's an opportunity for intergenerational family to enjoy something together equally." – Sheng Wang (25:28)
• Meaningful Fan Encounters
  • Sheng recounts a message from a fan who found comfort in his special on a hard day. “That's the most meaningful stuff to me…It really seems to help people, and they really enjoy it.” – Sheng Wang (26:55)

The Value of Everyday Activities and Slowing Down (28:11–31:25)

• Rejecting Convenience for Connection
  • Both discuss the joys of small, intentional acts—like picking up pizza, buying envelopes, or making soup with a child—as the substance of life.
  • Pete: “Life is getting out there. Go get in your own boba.” – (29:34)
  • Kurt Vonnegut Reference: Going out to buy an envelope as a microcosm for living.

Nature, Substances, and Creative Process (37:06–41:47)

• Weed and Mushrooms in Creative and Daily Life
  • Sheng uses marijuana regularly and mushrooms occasionally, now preferring “quiet, introspective” trips in nature.
  • Pete relates to seeking solitude on psychedelics: “These things want to talk to you…They want to talk.”
  • Both agree substances help unlock the sense of childlike novelty and presence that are central to prompting material.

Sensitivity, Overwhelm, and Social Anxiety (41:22–47:16)

• Sheng Identifies as a Sensitive Person
  • Social overwhelm sometimes leads him to prefer the stage over mingling at parties, especially “industry” events.
  • Both recall feeling the pressure of networking in comedy, managing their discomfort and professional advancement.

Discovering and Honing Craft (47:17–58:53)

• Early Struggles in Stand-up
  • Sheng shares stories of moving through open mics, New York hustles, discomfort performing for misled tourists, and learning to walk away from unfulfilling gigs. (47:17–49:04)
  • Memories of “performing for nobody” and the necessity (and eventual drawbacks) of paying dues.
• Discovering Authenticity
  • Major influences: Mitch Hedberg, Brian Regan, Attell.
  • Both discuss the realization that stand-up can take the smallest moments and make them central, thanks to seeing comics like Hedberg and Seinfeld do mundane material in novel ways.
  • “That just changed…what this could be…and, like, maybe I could do it. Maybe I don't have to be somebody else.” – Sheng Wang (62:05)

Writing Process and the Flow of a Special (53:28–56:54)

• Iterative, Organic Joking
  • Sheng starts with angles/ideas, tries them on stage, and records various versions before putting anything into written/polished form. (53:36)
  • Awareness of natural delivery: “When you start writing it immediately, that's not really how you say it…” – Sheng Wang (54:15)
• Structure of "Purple"
  • Discussion about openers and strategically placed bits. (Berry and Shallot routines act as dual openers/reboots.)
  • Recognizing the need for a "20-minute reboot" in hour-long specials.

Depth, Mortality, Appreciation, and Ancestors (67:43–79:26)

• Personal Artifacts, Family, and Legacy
  • Pete expresses admiration for Sheng thanking his ancestors in the special.
  • Both discuss how honoring ancestors and recognizing one's place in the lineage gives greater depth and meaning.
  • Quote: “Every sandwich they had, every bus they rode, every job they had all led to this.” – Pete Holmes (71:30)
  • Sheng: “I think that's healthy. We have a tendency to cut all that off…and it's not good. Why would we do...Everything is in the future, and everything is technology...” (72:17)
• The Outsider Perspective & Observational Skill
  • Sheng connects awareness and observational humor to the experience of being an immigrant and outsider growing up in Texas. (77:37–78:08)

Spirituality, Impermanence, and Saunder (80:00–84:43)

• Sheng's Spiritual Worldview
  • Draws from Buddhist ideas—impermanence, non-attachment, being present, and compassion.
  • The importance of connecting with others and recognizing the worlds within every person ("saunder").
  • Quote: “Everyone you see passing on the street…they all have the same breadth and depth of dreams and hopes…” – Sheng Wang (83:10)
  • Pete: “The phenomenon of awareness that I have is the same…that they have. We're sharing the same miracle.” (84:00)

Death, Life, and Continuity (84:50–92:15)

• What Happens When We Die?
  • Sheng: “I think so…[it's over].” (84:53)
  • Pete pushes back philosophically, suggesting instead that life is the continuum and death is merely a temporary dispersal, referencing Eckhart Tolle, Tao Te Ching, and Alan Watts metaphors of life as a river or the “space in the vase.”
  • Quote: “You are not a visitor in life. You are life.” – Pete Holmes (90:29)
• Authenticity and Uplifting Comedy
  • Pete underscores how Sheng’s authenticity and focus on uplifting, connecting, and loving the audience is what distinguishes his comedy and makes it valuable.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On being present and appreciating minutiae:
  • "It's grounding. It's tactile. It's immediate. It's real. It's now." – Sheng Wang (05:13)
• On success and peace:
  • "Don't pray for success. Pray for peace of mind." – Eddie Murphy, via Pete Holmes (13:45)
• On the power and rarity of family resonance in comedy:
  • "I love that there's an opportunity for intergenerational family to enjoy something together equally." – Sheng Wang (25:28)
• On resisting convenience culture:
  • "Life is getting out there. Go get your own boba." – Sheng Wang (29:12)
• On creativity and writing:
  • “Let it come out...as many times as you can, and then put it on the page.” – Sheng Wang (54:48)
• On children, objects, and happiness:
  • "[Giving up material consumption]...for me, it's all about opportunities to continue doing what I love." – Sheng Wang (24:42)
• On lineage and gratitude:
  • “I think that’s healthy. I think we have a tendency to cut all that off...why would we?” – Sheng Wang (72:17)
• On spiritual connection and empathy:
  • “Everyone has this whole universe inside them.” – Sheng Wang (83:10)

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Important Timestamps

• 03:11: Opening on the power of comedic voice and observation
• 05:13: Minutiae and mindful presence
• 08:23: Eckhart Tolle, seeing the present as art
• 15:24: Evoking mortality through the toaster oven bit
• 19:58: Slowing down time by appreciating details
• 24:50: Defining success, appreciation for opportunities, intergenerational enjoyment
• 27:57: Rejecting convenience, value of getting out in the world
• 41:22: Sensitivity, social overwhelm, industry discomfort
• 47:17: Sheng’s early career struggles, authenticity journey
• 54:15: Organic writing and the creative process
• 56:09: Structuring a special, dual openers, the 20-minute reboot
• 71:00: Gratitude for ancestors and awareness of lineage
• 80:32: Buddhism, impermanence, and spirituality
• 83:10: Introducing/defining "saunder" as empathy and connection
• 84:50: The question of death, continuity, and consciousness
• 92:12: Pete’s closing compliment about Sheng’s authenticity
• 95:05: Closing sign-off (“Keep it crispy” tradition)

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Final Takeaways

This conversation is a deep, hilarious, and moving exploration of what it means to “make it weird”—to pay attention, be present, notice the overlooked, embrace gratitude and ancestry, and live (and laugh) authentically. Sheng Wang’s “Purple,” as discussed, reflects all these values, and both comedians advocate for a mindful, intentional approach to comedy, creativity, and life.

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“Be more human, be more connected, be more uplifted and be more loving.” – Sheng Wang (94:34)

Recommended Viewing: Sheng Wang’s "Purple" (Netflix), Pete Holmes’ "I Am Not for Everyone" (YouTube).

Transcript

[Pete Holmes]

Lemonade.

[Shang Wang]

You made it weird with Pete Holmes.

[Pete Holmes]

What's happening, weirdos? I am so excited you are here. This is Shang Wang, who is incredible. I've known Shang for over a decade. He's hilarious. And his new special on Netflix is called purple. And without any hyperbole. I don't like when people say hyper without any exaggeration. It is one of the best specials of the past 10 years. It's incredible. I. I've seen it twice. I absolutely loved it. Check it out. Shang Wang Purple on Netflix. It's unbelievable. And if you're looking for something you could maybe watch with like the whole fam. Sheng Wang Purple. Somehow he did it. He did a special that's clean but still interesting and brilliant. He's a brilliant writer and a brilliant performer. You need to check it out right now. I only have a couple things to plug up. Top one is my book, spells to cast on your parents. I'm holding it up right here.

[Shang Wang]

It's a book you read to your

[Pete Holmes]

kids and they cast spells that make you do goofy things. It's also guarded by a small black dragon named Jesse. That's all you really need to know. Also, my new special. Well, not my new special, but my Netflix special, I am not for everyone is now available on YouTube for free. For free. It was on Netflix for a while, but now these days they lease specials, so then they release them back to the artist and we put it up on YouTube. So check that out. Also, silly, silly fun boy. The special after I am not for everyone is also on YouTube. So there's two. If you haven't seen the Netflix one, two. Two new hours of standup comedy from me on YouTube.com it's a website. Also, I'm on tour. Go to PeteHolmes.com if you're watching this the day it comes out. I'm at Largo tonight with Shang. Shang Wang is going to be on the show Largo LA.com for tickets to that. We do it every month. Followed by Aspen, Denver, Durham, Charleston, Sacramento, Portland, Maine, Vancouver, San Luis Obispo, Madison, Wisconsin, Seattle, Washington, Portland, San Diego, and that's it. Go to peteholmes.com for all of those. In the meantime, enjoy this chat with the wonderful, the incredible Shang Wang. Get into it.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Hi, it's Julia Louis Dreyfus here and I can't wait for you to hear our new episode of wiser than me with Cyndi Lauper on Amazon Music. Cyndi may be a girl who just wants to have fun, but for 40 years, she has brought playfulness and a dash of punk to some serious activism. We talk about her lifelong LGBTQ advocacy, her astonishing music career, and pick up a whole lot of wisdom along the way. Listen now only on Amazon, music included with Prime.

[Pete Holmes]

The whole couch is you, though. I feel like I've been watching you, so I'm like, the whole couch is you. I just want to talk like you. But they only allotted me one side of the couch. It's addictive. I actually think that's a pretty good compliment. Seinfeld said that. He's like, there's a certain level of success. That's when people want to talk like you because it's fun. Like, there's, like, there's making it, but then, like, real making it is. People just want to be like, how are you? Like, it's fun. You know what I mean? So I've had you in my ear, and then you start looking at the world like that.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, yeah, I see that.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I mean?

[Shang Wang]

A new narration going on.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, it's like a different costume. Like, what if I was this brain? And your brain is, I think, very relatable, and it's also like a really. If. If it's okay, we'll just start rolling. Is that okay? It's also, like, a really pleasant place. Like, I really like where you're coming from.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I think people really like that energy. Like, I'm a big believer. It's like. Yeah, there's the jokes, and this is maybe going to sound stupid, but then there is the vibe. There's like, what does it look like from his brain? And I like it.

[Shang Wang]

Right. I mean, you know, it's a curated presentation of my brain.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

You know, it's not the whole thing. It's too much. You know, you got to put it. You know, you got to figure it out, what you want to present. But, yeah, you know, I kind of. That's just. That's just like. I kind of want to try to bring peace and uplift people. You know, I'm trying to not make things more anxious and, I don't know, hard or mean, you know?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, It's. There's something about minutia. It's almost like. You know what ASMR is?

[Shang Wang]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

It's a little, like, asmr, like, thinking about berries or thinking about hotel shampoo or, like, just getting into the nitty gritty of life. There can be something, like. I hesitate to say meditative, but there is something meditative.

[Shang Wang]

It's grounding.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

It's Grounding.

[Pete Holmes]

It's tactile.

[Shang Wang]

It's tactile. It's immediate. It's real. It's now, you know. Yeah. My friend, who he was, he used to have this, you know, this anxiety, like, kind of almost like a panic attack thing. And then his. His therapist told him, when you starting to feel that, like, start looking at, like, water dripping down. Like, if you take. Take a shower and watch the water drip down.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

Each individual bead of water, it just gets you into the moment when you just put, you know, every little minor thing. The. The ridges on this cat.

[Pete Holmes]

Feel this. Just focus on. Yeah, just focus on that.

[Shang Wang]

The way the hair.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Shang Wang]

You know, the design, and it's consistent. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, this chair is holding you.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

There's something really, like, if I'm having, like, a flighty, panicky moment.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

My Valerie will be like, my Valerie. My wife Valerie will be like, look at how many things are supporting you right now.

[Shang Wang]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I mean? Like, there's air in the room. Gravity. Maybe you don't want to think about gravity when you're having a panic attack.

[Shang Wang]

Like, I mean, that's okay. I mean, yeah, there's a lot going,

[Pete Holmes]

but, yeah, it's whole. It's literally pushing you to the earth and holding you down.

[Shang Wang]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Like a. Like a weighted blanket.

[Shang Wang]

It is. I mean, if you consider the. The column of atmosphere right above you going all the way up to the atmosphere. This, like, several, I think, pounds of.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I believe so. I believe so.

[Shang Wang]

Holding you down. Yeah. I mean. Yeah, it's a lot of. Yeah. I just think that little things like that just help.

[Pete Holmes]

It's.

[Shang Wang]

Help. It just. It's good to, like, be right here, and it's. It's. It's nice to, you know, know that. I mean, that's what makes it relatable. It's just because it's totally all around,

[Pete Holmes]

you know, and it is sort of. I don't want to make a judgment and say it's a shame, but people do tend to lose it. There's something kind of childlike about what you're doing.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Which is like. Or alien. Like. And again, I mean that as a compliment.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Wait. There's little bottles of Champ. Like, you go to a hotel and they have little versions or. Or leaks.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, that's almost a tree. Like, that's something a kid, in the most beautiful way you've held. Has that been a deliberate effort on your part?

[Shang Wang]

I think so. I mean, I think. I think that's, you know, it's just like fun for me to notice things, you know, pay attention to things. I mean, I think it started with, you know, photography, some extent photography.

[Pete Holmes]

It is like photography, you know, because that's pausing and noticing.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. Because I, I took photography classes in college and that's when it was all kind of around the same time. I took poetry photography and I was doing comedy stuff and it all kind of converged in this format, you know, Perfect sense. Yeah. Because. Yeah, I. That's kind of when I started doing photography. You know, when you first started doing any one of things, you're in that mode 24. When you, when you first get into it and you're excited and you're like locked in.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

You're constantly like framing your life.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

Through the lens of that thing, right?

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Shang Wang]

And it's very similar photography and comedy. Like you're just observing things in your life. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like a treasure hunt.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I don't mean money, I mean like.

[Shang Wang]

Right, right. You're looking. Yeah, it's like the Terminator thing, you know, when you know and it's like analyzing. Right. You're trying to see, is this a photo? Is this a joke? Is this something interesting?

[Pete Holmes]

It's funny because. So Eckhart Tolle's come up twice now. One is, he says a gateway to the present is how you're feeling, like your physical body touching something. So he. Eckhart Tolle is a spiritual teacher, but he just talks about the present moment a lot. And he's like, if you're feeling flighty, just focus on one thing. Like the sensation of your hand on the mic. You feel that and it grounds you. Then the other thing that he said, I did a retreat with him and he was talking about, like, every time you see a picture, like every time you see a window, imagine it like a picture frame. Imagine it like it's framing art because that's a different lens. If you took a picture of exactly how you are right now and hung it up in a museum, people would look at it and people would be like, oh, wow, you know what I mean? Like, so there's like a way to. Instead of just going like, oh, boring reality. You can look at it like a photograph. You can look at it like a piece of art. You can look at it like it's something that might have a joke. And that's what I feel like. You tell me as a photographer, you're looking for these little. How is everyone missing this? Like, the pollen is coming off of this bee, right? Now, and you take a picture and you show it to everybody else.

[Shang Wang]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Or like, Van Gogh painted that chair. Like one of his most famous paintings is a chair.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like a $3 chair. And that's also a Eckhart Tolle thing. The painting sold for, like, 15 million or whatever. Not that it's about money, but it's like someone who sees something clearly. Something boring. Clearly seen is very valuable to us. And I see what you're doing in your. In your comedy.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, I guess. Yeah. I mean, I'm a fan of cartola, for sure.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, really?

[Shang Wang]

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just. It's just fun for me. It is like a little treasure hunt.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, if you and I went to the supermarket with the designated purpose, like, let's write bits, would have. Would go into a different. Like a scavenger hunt frequency.

[Shang Wang]

Right. I mean, because, well, there's. There's like, the hunt for things. Right. And then the extra whatever is, like, your understanding or feeling about this thing. Mm. And that's what's. I don't know, like, beyond, like, something that looks cool is having. Finding, like, this new sense of who you are.

[Pete Holmes]

Totally. You know, you ever see something? You ever look at something? I get the feeling you do. And for some reason, it gives you a really unexpected emotion. Like you might. This is going to sound like a joke, but you look at a tide box, and it just makes you feel like just the quickest flash of fear or something. Or, like anxiety.

[Shang Wang]

A Tide wood box.

[Pete Holmes]

A Tide box. Like Tide deter. I'm just picking something totally random. But, like, you look at something, why does that make me happy? You know? Or why does that make me feel sort of sad? But sometimes I'm like, why did that make me just feel kind of panicked? Just like half a second.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Is it because I have to do laundry? Is it. Is it such a bold orange red that's kind of. You know, usually that's like blood. Like, there's something in our primal, like, oh, I don't know. But if you're paying attention now, you're feeling.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, even if I asked you, like, right now, often when I. When I'm doing therapy, what. We start with, like, what's present for you right now? And when I start looking around my interior, just, like, my feelings, I can find almost every single one. Do you relate to that?

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So sometimes. Go ahead.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, no, I think. I think, yeah, I can relate to that.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

There's a lot of. Yeah, it's good to check in. Check in, check in. I was feeling kind of down on myself coming here because apparently my maps found a better way, a better route, and I was gonna get here, like, a little bit more on time, you know, and then I missed the exit to Bowdry. You know, I love Bowdry. I love saying the word Bowdry.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't know. Bowdry, is that the 101 before you

[Shang Wang]

hit when you're coming north past on the 110 before you hit the 101 right by all that downtown stuff, there's that one ramp that goes third, fourth, and then if you go off third, there's Bowdry, which you have to get to by crossing four lanes immediately.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes, I know what you're talking about.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Which is always a panic.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. And I didn't realize we were doing that thing today. Cause they didn't say that before we started. And then it changed during the route, and I got down on myself. But then I was like. I felt it. I was like, yeah. You know?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Shang Wang]

And I was like, it's okay. I mean, the only thing is, I didn't want to be late for you guys, but for me, it's like, I. I. If it's a few minutes now, I try not to get. You know, I'm still alive, and I'm in the car, and I get to enjoy this.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Shang Wang]

I'm listening to the cure right now.

[Pete Holmes]

Totally. That's so right out of my own brain. It's like you're tempted, and it's really reflexive. You're not making a choice to overanalyze or make a story out of something. Like, I missed an exit. Your brain just naturally starts going like. I'm not saying your brain, but, like, because you're a fool or whatever, you know? Right, right, right.

[Shang Wang]

I was like, you blew it.

[Pete Holmes]

Why? Why does it do that? It wants it. Like, when we. I love that we say, don't catastrophize, because I think that's, like, the brain's number one job, is to just take stuff and be like, well, this is what they're gonna think. And as we're almost exactly the same age, as I get older, I notice that that's the volume on that is turning down.

[Shang Wang]

Tamp it down a little.

[Pete Holmes]

And I like that a lot.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Would you agree? Like, are you. Well, let me ask you a better question. Go ahead.

[Shang Wang]

No, it's peace. I just wanted more peace in my life. Dude, that's not necessary. You don't want It.

[Pete Holmes]

That became the priority. Yeah, Yeah, I totally. Did you watch the Eddie Murphy documentary?

[Shang Wang]

No, I haven't seen it yet.

[Pete Holmes]

It was good.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'll ruin the best part. He goes, don't pray for success. He goes, pray for peace of mind.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I was like. I was like, eddie, Eddie. I just didn't expect it, but then I wasn't surprised at the same time.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. I mean, he's been just doing his own thing on his own terms for a long time now. Right.

[Pete Holmes]

I feel that because he's got a

[Shang Wang]

lot of pressure to, like, come and do stand up from other people.

[Pete Holmes]

But I think I kind of love that he doesn't do it.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's o. I don't mean he's over. I just mean, like, people want Eddie Murphy to do comedy because they want to be who they were when they saw Raw.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I mean? I think he knows that.

[Shang Wang]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

He's like, you think I'm going to come out on stage and you're going to be 15 again? He's like, I can't do that.

[Shang Wang]

Interesting.

[Pete Holmes]

You're going to be 47.

[Shang Wang]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, your body's going to be creaking and cracking and, like, it's not going to save you. So I'm not going to do it.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. I mean, yeah. It's almost an impossible place. I don't know. I would love to see it, but.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, No, I. I don't know, man. I really worry about those comeback things because I really feel like. Like I had a friend, like, from college. It was like, oh, I want to be friends. And I was like, thinking about it. I was like, that's really sweet, but I think we're both talking about who we were when we were in college. Those people are dead.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

They're gone.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, sometimes they come back.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

Sometimes they do come back and it's usually unfortunate. Sometimes they come back.

[Pete Holmes]

It reminds me of your toaster bit. So there is like an emotion, like, I would say that your stand up is very emotional, not just your perspective, but evocative. Like, it evokes the feeling of mortality. So, like, you talk about getting a really nice toaster oven.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then you're like, this is so high quality. It might be my last toaster oven.

[Shang Wang]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't want to do a whole bit, but I could. Which one of my nieces or nephews has the charisma to represent me on Antique Road Show?

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

With this oven. And it's so funny. But now you're thinking about dying.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That's kind of what I'm talking about. Like.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Stuff is. Is the whole thing. I don't mean consumerism. I mean, like, your life is shoelaces and toothpicks and wet naps.

[Shang Wang]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

That's your life.

[Shang Wang]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I, like. Like there's some artists that do, like, interesting representations of life. Like, I saw one and I think at the. Was it the big museum in London, The British. The big British National Museum.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

Anyways, there was some artists that just basically did, like, one person's. A couple. A couple. Two people's lives from beginning to end in the form of medicine pills.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, wow.

[Shang Wang]

And it's just like, you know, those little things in the foil or. Yeah. Just tablets and just, you know, and it would break them down into different phases of life and what. These different drug. All the different drugs that. The cocktails of, you know, along the way.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

But.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I'm imagining it's like morphine.

[Shang Wang]

Right, Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Just tons. Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. It, like, kind of starts, like, nothing or little, and then it gets, you know, big and then gets small, you know.

[Pete Holmes]

That's brilliant.

[Shang Wang]

I mean, maybe it gets small. I don't. It just ends somehow.

[Pete Holmes]

Who knows? But at the beginning, it's like cutie little.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. Flintstones.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, Flintstones. That's kind of crazy that. That does remind me of. Not. Not as overtly. You're not going like, this is your life. Like, you're gonna die or whatever. That's pretty morbid.

[Shang Wang]

It's just. But it's just good to consider.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

This preciousness and, you know, like, different ways of looking at how limited our time is here.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. You know, consider that, I guess. Yeah. And it's on my. It's on. It's on the mind more. You know, we're not 20 or, you know.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, you mean the end.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. Just the idea that this is a limited run.

[Pete Holmes]

I think about this all the time. I try to go, like, could I have some of that deathbed enthusiasm?

[Shang Wang]

What do you mean to go, people?

[Pete Holmes]

Let's say you skirt death like you were gonna die, and then you get a second chance. Like, I was actually. It's kind of sweet, I think I was like, I'm gonna see Katie. And I actually was like, oh, Katie's gonna have everything set up. Because I kept having that feeling. I was like, I think I'm forgetting something. Like, I didn't have anything in the car. It was just me, just an idiot driving to this. You know, I'm kidding. But I'm like, wait, Katie's gonna set everything up. And that's really sweet. And I was like, it's funny, whenever I see Katie, I'm just like, hi, Katie. But if I almost died the next time I saw Katie, I'd be like, katie, you know what I mean? Like, oh, my God, it's you, like, crying. We don't have time for this. I guess. So our lives become very like steam cleaned and regimented and ordinary and by the way, I'm excited to see you, Katie, but like, we kind of lose that stuff. So this curiosity and this attention to detail might be in the same. In relationship with like an appreciation for your life.

[Shang Wang]

I think so. And I. And I think so. And I. And I think you can still have that moment.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

You know, you can still have your thought on the, on your drive here. Like, your appreciation for Katie, like, you can still have that.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

You know, and you had that thought and you, you know, and noticed and you honored it. You know, honored it totally. Yeah. Like, I, I think. Yeah. Partly it's because this heightened sense of awareness of like the end or the. Just a limited run. So you want to, you want to make a, you know, make it make. It's hard to say. So how do you make it count? Yeah. You know, and I think just being present and engaged as much as you can is. I think that's the way. And so like, these little details seem little, but they're actually like keeping you on the, you know, in your experience. Yeah. In your body, in your.

[Pete Holmes]

Now if you can drop anchor and just go like this. I sometimes say this to crowds. I get the feeling you might say similar things too. You go about it a different way, but you imbue, to use that word again, you. I said evocative earlier, but you imbue the crowd with like, this is your life. This is it. Yeah, it's happening.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, I do. There's a little bit of that. I mean, I think. I don't know. I don't have these very, like, clear goals.

[Pete Holmes]

You don't need to ruin your. What you're doing by talking about it.

[Shang Wang]

But I am curious. Yeah. But I think, I think that, you know, the little things is to kind of slow down life. Yeah. Right. So you can kind of dilate the length, the sensation of time passing.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Shang Wang]

And then, and then. Wait, what was the other thing?

[Pete Holmes]

We're saying that the crowd, you're giving them some of that, like, this is your life feeling.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, just remind. Yeah. So just,

[Pete Holmes]

well, slow down and laugh.

[Shang Wang]

Slow down and laugh and enjoy it all. But there was something else I was

[Pete Holmes]

going to say the objects, the minutiae is appreciating your life. Like, appreciating Katie is appreciate. Oh. And what's happening is what's happening. Is that helping?

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like if you and I, like, really, you could let it go and trust it'll come back. But like, if you and I just go, like, this is our life, like a good date, a good show, a good movie. You just go, this is what I'm doing. That's why I find second screening so offensive. Like, if somebody's scrolling Instagram while they're watching a movie.

[Shang Wang]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm like, what. What is this? We've confused stimulation with living.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I mean? It's like we've. We've gone into the. Into the fuse box of our nervous systems and go, if I can, like, feel every. Like, that's life. And you talked about in your special, like, wanting to be in nature more and, like, having more slow hangs with your friends. And you said to here earlier that you want peace. Like, that's because, like, I'm gonna put this to you, like, one day lived, like, authentically. Like, actually, I don't mean, like, thinking about the chair, but like, being here locking on to the preciousness of these two fragile meat astronauts, and we're here at the same time in outer space. Like, if you can really lock into your life, one day of that is better than 10 years of walking like a zombie.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Through somebody else's life and somebody else's plan for you. That's why, like, the Truman show and all these things where people are, like, snapping out of it and just going, like, katie, I love you. You know, just like, figuring out that this is it.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Are we talking about the same.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, basically just, just, Just. Just an appreciation for this.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Who taught you that? Who taught you to look out for that?

[Shang Wang]

I mean, I think, you know, I grew up. My parents. My parents are like Buddhists. You know, I went to Chinese school, but I also went to Chinese class. I took Chinese classes in, like, a Buddhist, like a temple setting.

[Pete Holmes]

What age? In middle school.

[Shang Wang]

No, this is in Houston.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay.

[Shang Wang]

Middle school.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay.

[Shang Wang]

Started. Yeah. Started Chinese classes in elementary school, but basically, like, there was these ideas of, like, impermanence and inherent suffering when we get attached to things. And as a kid, you're like, that sounds crazy. I mean, it makes sense. But you're like, I'm just trying to have. I'm just trying to go to the food court.

[Pete Holmes]

I remember this, you know, when someone was like, desire is the root of all suffering or whatever. I don't know if that's exactly the wording, but I was like, yeah, I want ice cream and I want to serve. Like, yeah, it doesn't make any sense.

[Shang Wang]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, you're like, I'll take the suffering if I get to have some ice cream. Yeah. Right. And then as you get older, that starts to unfold a little bit.

[Shang Wang]

Absolutely. You understand this, too shall pass. Whether good or bad, everything is constantly changing.

[Pete Holmes]

And like, you. You.

[Shang Wang]

You can, you know, enjoy in the moment, but don't get attached to it.

[Pete Holmes]

I tell my daughter, we can't get her to understand because she loves stuff.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I can't blame her. But I. I'll say to her, she's only seven. I'll be like, baby, stuff doesn't make you happy. And I'll go like, do you remember? I'll try and get real slick with. I go, do you remember the last thing I got you? And she doesn't. Why? But, like, that's a little bit unfair. Like, I'm really kind of her. She's seven.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And she's. She doesn't take that as hurtful. I'm not, like, messing with her. I'm just like. I'm trying to go like, this is a Rupert Spyer thing. Like, let's say I gave you those shoes and they made you happy. It's not the shoes that made you happy. It's actually this moment where you weren't wanting anything, where your true self was revealed. So you were just sort of stood naked. Like, you weren't confused by seeking or resisting. You just had a pure moment. But it's not the shoes. Because if it was the shoes, every time you looked at the shoes, the shoes would give you that feeling, but they don't. Everything fades in appreciation.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Does that make any sense?

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So I'm trying to teach this to my daughter, but then I also go, like, it's not really the time, man. Here's. Yeah, here's a Groot doll.

[Shang Wang]

I don't know. It's hard. It's. I mean, you know, it was. We're still. We're still learning, trying to get into it.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm 40 years older than her.

[Shang Wang]

Like, you know, I'm all. I'm talking about this all the time, but I'm. You know, I'm failing every day.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah. Totally, totally.

[Shang Wang]

But it's just a stride, you know, we're trying.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

And it. But if it does feel right, it does make sense.

[Pete Holmes]

You mean the giving up, the looking for happiness in objects or buying stuff.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. You know, material consumption. I mean. Yeah. That.

[Pete Holmes]

How is success felt?

[Shang Wang]

I mean, I'm grateful. I'm grateful that for me it's all about opportunities to like, continue doing what I love. I love the craft and I love that people get to come out. I love that people get to enjoy it together, you know, Like, I love seeing, I don't know, families come out. Yeah. It never was a goal as a, as a, you know, as a young comedian, I wasn't like, I'm ready to, you know, I want to see like people with their kids out. I want to see people with their parents out.

[Pete Holmes]

That was.

[Shang Wang]

Never occurred to me till they started. It started happening.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

I was like, this is very sweet.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

And I. And I love that there's an opportunity for intergenerational family to enjoy something together equally.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

Because, you know, it's hard for that. For you to find those things.

[Pete Holmes]

Totally.

[Shang Wang]

And so. And I didn't have a lot of that as a kid. And so, I don't know, I just.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, I was just talking about this, like, how beautiful it is to see your parents liking something. Yeah. And then it was really too far afield for me to be like, imagine if we really like the same thing.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But I had a moment where I listened to Strategic Grill Locations, the Mitch Hedberg album, with my ex, now ex mother in law. And she was like a very conservative Christian. So it was me, my ex wife and her in a car. And I'm like trying to think of what comedy we can all listen to. And I put on Mitch Hedberg. And we were. And she was dying. I was like, this is cool. I can't believe we both like this.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's like you're similar in that, like you'll say like a titty. Like that's like. You know what I mean? Yeah, that'll be. But it's just your intent is so clear.

[Shang Wang]

Right. I mean, there's adults, it's grown up

[Pete Holmes]

stuff, but like it's. But nobody's gonna be blushing.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. Yeah. And so like, I just. I don't know. That's really. For me, the success part is just having people resonate with this stuff and finding, you know, I got a message this morning from someone I don't know. You know, apparently he's a musician, like a young black guy, and he was telling me how much he enjoyed the special, and it was Mother's Day, and his mom's passed, and so he just needed this. These things to get him through this tough day for him.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

And I got. I read it this morning, and I was, like, very touched by that, you know, And I'm just grateful. Like, that's. That's the most meaningful stuff to me. It's like, I get a chance to make a livelihood. I get a chance to perform for people, and I can continue doing it, and it really seems to help people, and they really enjoy it.

[Pete Holmes]

So.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, that's all. That's the most that matters to me, really.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm just so pleased. I don't know. I'm pleased for you. I'm pleased to hear this. Like, it pleases me, but I'm also, like, just happy that you've figured this out. I mean, I talk to a lot of people on the pod, and. And it's not like I'm grading their answers or anything, but it can disappoint me when I'm like, oh, and sometimes they're old, and I'm like, oh, you're. You're really thinking the next thing, the next success, the next ring of the bell is going to, like, fill in the cliche, but you're gonna fill in this hole. You're gonna feel okay about yourself. Yeah, it's nice to see that, like, but, like. Like, cooking comes into play. Like, you feel like someone who cooks. Like, we. Like, I'm watching the new season of. Of. Go ahead.

[Shang Wang]

No. Why. Why would we.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, of beef. Right. And there's this line that is really. Was haunting to me where Oscar Isaac is like, we grubhub every day. And I was like. And the people that created that show, I'm like, that's perfect. That's the perfect way to say these people have money and they're miserable. That's like, the new way to say it. Like, you can have. I used to do it when we lived here. I would order dumplings from one place and would order dessert from milk bar and have them race.

[Shang Wang]

Right, Right.

[Pete Holmes]

We'd try to, like, stagger it and look, that's fun, but it's not the point. Now I'm realizing, like, my daughter and I, two nights ago, she said, I want to make tomato soup. I don't even know where she got this idea. I didn't know how to do it. We went to the store. Turns out it's three ingredients. It couldn't have been easier and it was Shang style. We were just kind of freestyling the amounts. It was delicious, beautiful. We ate it. I could cry.

[Shang Wang]

That's lovely.

[Pete Holmes]

We were eating this soup like it was a treasure. Or you could have the finest tomato soup driven to you from across town. And it means absolutely nothing. Sorry, I know I'm a little scattered. We were talking about success and gratitude, but, like, we're back to, like, your lifestyle.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. No, I mean, I. I love that.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. I. I was. I was getting boba yesterday, and it was me and a bunch of friends. You know, family. They're. You know, families. The kids and everything. And. And there was a bunch of orders for a delivery before us. And it was a super hot day. And I'd be like, yeah, it'd be nice to just be home and have all this just delivered to you.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

You know, but, like, life is getting out there. Go get in your own boba, you know? You know, there's that whole story. Go get it.

[Pete Holmes]

Go get it. What are you afraid of?

[Shang Wang]

Go into the world. Bumble around, See some people say hi to a stranger.

[Pete Holmes]

But, dude, when we were talking about touching an object when we're feeling anxious, going for a walk around the neighborhood, just remembering where you are.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You watch, like, the news and there's so much awful. Like, maybe just go check on your street.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I mean? Like, something. I remember the last time something bad happened. I'm not saying it's not about, like, plugging your ears and going la, la, la. But you walk and get coffee. And I saw Brett, the guy who works at Brew over here. I talked to him.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, this is your life.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. This is life, too. Right.

[Pete Holmes]

This is life, too. I could have had it delivered.

[Shang Wang]

Right?

[Pete Holmes]

Right. Are we saying the same thing?

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. Yeah. You know, like, there's that Kurt Vonnegut story where his wife was like, why are you buying? Why are you going outside? You're leaving the house to go buy an envelope. Just get a box, 100 or whatever. And he's like, this is. This is life.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

Going out there to put some out and get an envelope, say hi to the neighbor's dog. You know, like, I don't.

[Pete Holmes]

Bro.

[Shang Wang]

I mean, unless you. You got a lot. I don't know what's going on in your life, but, like, you know, like, going outside, taking a walk, going to the post office, you know, that's all stuff that I like to do.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

I mean, you know, well, go ahead. You know, there's just times for that.

[Pete Holmes]

You Know, and there has to be times.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, you said in your amazing. And I should have said this up top. Forgive me, but your special. I've watched it twice the whole way through, which I don't care. Why am I telling you this? But, like, I never do that. I'm never like, let's fire that up again. Like, But I did.

[Shang Wang]

No, that's crazy. That's crazy.

[Pete Holmes]

I love it more the second time.

[Shang Wang]

That's wild. I mean, I believe that's. Thank you.

[Pete Holmes]

It's unbelievable. You're so funny. And I. I should have said that up top.

[Shang Wang]

No, no, no. There's no.

[Pete Holmes]

We'll plug the hell out of it up top.

[Shang Wang]

But good.

[Pete Holmes]

But yes, I appreciate that.

[Shang Wang]

No, thank you.

[Pete Holmes]

But, like, envelopes in life. What were we saying?

[Shang Wang]

Going out there and doing little things.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. Oh, yesterday I picked up the pizza. I had a bunch of kids at my house, and I volunteered to go get the pizza. And I was, like, in the car and just had that realization of, like, we could have gotten it delivered. I live in a small town, too, so it's easier to go get it. But I was like, this is it. Like, part of you goes like, I don't want to look for parking. And you're like, what are you talking about? Like, sometimes that anxiety, and I do mean very mild anxiety, like, where am I going to park? Comes up, like your pleasure chest joke.

[Shang Wang]

Easy.

[Pete Holmes]

Parking is your thing. But I was like, yeah. And you know what? It was a little tricky to find parking, but we figured it out.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm listening to music. I had the windows down, and I saw people, and I saw all different kinds of people. I saw people that looked like they were having an argument, like, based on the way they were. Like, this is back to that alien vision where you're just visiting.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Suddenly you showed up in your own life. And mushrooms and weed can be really helpful for this. That feeling of, like, what's that?

[Shang Wang]

What is.

[Pete Holmes]

What is. What do you do? More on that, please.

[Shang Wang]

What do you mean?

[Pete Holmes]

Just like, what's happening?

[Shang Wang]

What is it? Yeah. What is this? Where are we? What are these things?

[Pete Holmes]

I'm moving through air like water. Like water to a fish, air to me. And I'm swimming around and they're giving me a pizza. It's very similar to my Katie, what's up? Oh, dude. During my beautiful water to fish monologue.

[Shang Wang]

Good thing we have a. Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

All right.

[Shang Wang]

Cha cha, cha, cha, cha.

[Pete Holmes]

And don't edit that out. I like that. I. I actually firmly believe this. These are the new delicacies. An AI podcast will never have the tech come in and say, your mic isn't working, so you leave that in, please. Human, we're gonna crave it. I do it on stage, I go like, if I can't remember what bit I want to do next, or there's some weird moment, I'm like, no, this is. I'm giving you. I'm giving you uni right now. Like, this is really special. Like, because you never get it. If this was clipped, it would just be chunked out and every sped up and all that. Starting a new business is incredibly difficult. There's so much to think about. Payroll, onboarding, HR forms, tax stuff, and all that chaos. While you're trying to learn, you have this sneaky feeling that you're forgetting something, which is why so many companies feel such a sense of relief when they start using Gusto. Gusto is online payroll and benefits software built for small businesses. It's all in one remote, friendly, and easy to use. So instead of juggling payroll, direct deposit, onboarding docs to tax filing, hiring, and HR across a bunch of different systems, it all lives in one place and saves people a ton of time and stress. They also have unlimited payroll runs for one monthly price, which is great. No hidden fees, no surprises. And if you ever run into some confusing HR situation, you get direct access to certified HR experts, which is huge for small businesses trying to do a lot with a lean team. It's also quick and easy to switch to Gusto. You can transfer all your existing data and get up and running fast. Plus, you don't pay anything until you run your first payroll, which is incredible. So try gusto [e-mail] weird and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's three months of free [e-mail] weird one more time. Gusto.com weird hey, it's Julie, Louis Dreyfus

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[Shang Wang]

Amazon Health AI presents Painful Thoughts I. I can't stop scratching my downtown. Mm, yeah, but I'm not itching to

[Pete Holmes]

go downtown and tell a receptionist I'm

[Shang Wang]

here to talk about my downtown.

[Pete Holmes]

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[Shang Wang]

Healthcare just got less painful

[Pete Holmes]

Anyway, the weed and mushrooms, is that part of your life that kind of feels like it might be in the mix?

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, I mean, weed is pretty regular part of my life. I, I take breaks every now and then. I'm due for a break.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

Overdue for a break. You know when your tolerance is like, it's not even effective that really anymore, so.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's not novel. I can fall into that pit as well. And then taking the break and going back to it makes it special again.

[Shang Wang]

Makes it special again. You want that magic?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

But yeah, I think it's helpful. Mushrooms. I've had some lately. It's, it's really. It used to be like a fun thing. Now it's more like a very like, quiet, introspective thing. I really would need to be like away in the woods.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I'm the same way. We just had a bunch of people. This wasn't that recently, but the last time I did them it was a bunch of people at my house and everybody. It was very ceremonial and beautiful and we took this little tea. I'd never done it as a tea and it was a pretty big dose. And I, as soon as it kicked in, didn't make any choice. I was just like, I'm out of here. And I went over and sat with a tree, which is a cliche but me and that tree, man, friends for life. And everyone else, no judgment. Everyone else was partying. They were, like, hanging out. They were laughing and talking. And I was like, it made no sense to me. I was like, these things want to talk to you. They want to talk. You guys are here all the time. I'm never talking to this thing.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Do you know what I'm talking about? Like, it has this energy. And I was like. And what it had to say to me was unbelievably beautiful. And I was like, I'm gl. I guess I am being a little judgmental because I'm glad I didn't spend it just, you know.

[Shang Wang]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Shooting the shit.

[Shang Wang]

Right. Right.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't know. Maybe that's not what they were doing.

[Shang Wang]

I mean, either way, you could do it.

[Pete Holmes]

You could do it.

[Shang Wang]

It's fun both ways.

[Pete Holmes]

Fun both ways.

[Shang Wang]

It's hard for me in that mode. Unless I'm, like, already drunk, and then I do mushrooms.

[Pete Holmes]

That.

[Shang Wang]

That's a party mode. But if. Yeah, Yeah. I don't know. Mushrooms. Yeah. Lately, I, I, I, I've. I, I. It's much more sparing, you know, I do them very rarely, but, yeah, it's a fun. I mean, it's. I think it's a healthy, like, thing to just, like, check in every year or so.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, totally. Look under the hood.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. Look under the.

[Pete Holmes]

Be, like, anything new, because it will. But weed more, manageably. More, I guess.

[Shang Wang]

More.

[Pete Holmes]

You could do it more as a routine. Does kind of like when I listened to you, I was listening to your special. I watched it the first time, but I listened to it in the car. I was like, I bet people. This is kind of like a. I was also listening to the Flaming Lips, and I was like, this is kind of weed music. Isn't it funny? Like, it has that energy of, like, this bass line sounded amazing when I was stoned. And then you play it for me, and it kind of makes me feel stoned. I feel similar about your comedy. I'm like, it's coming from that, like, the. Under the bed. Little, like, fairy town, like. Or the. No, where the gnomes are.

[Shang Wang]

You know what I mean?

[Pete Holmes]

Like, appreciate the fairy. You know what I mean? Like, there's something. Does that feel right?

[Shang Wang]

I mean, that feels right. That feels right.

[Pete Holmes]

Do you think of jokes while you're stoned?

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, I mean, I guess so. I think for me, it's just like being present and just again, noticing when I realized, like, oh, I do have certain feelings about that this thing or, you know, like.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Shang Wang]

You know, totally. Like just that. That toothbrush bit. Like, oh, this is a little moment for me picking a color.

[Pete Holmes]

That is such a good example, like, which color speaks to me. And. And then purple being like, this is. And you didn't even. You're not doing bullshit. Make them ups. You actually have a belief.

[Shang Wang]

I do. I mean, it's a small thing. These are. There's. I have a, like, kind of a thing, you know, in my mind. The purple one is special. You know, bust that out in emergency.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

And then these are the other ones that you kind of go with, depending on what you need and feel, you know?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

I mean, there's such a minor. It's, you know, obviously I don't put. You know, it's a joke. But I do have a little silly little part of me that does care which one I pick right now.

[Pete Holmes]

Of course. Of course. But I think this is what. This is kind of what I was getting at when I'm like, you look at something and it evokes a feeling in you.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I think everyone's having that experience, and sometimes you need, you know, an artist to kind of remind you of that. Like, you are an open nerve to reality. And that is actually something I wanted to ask you. Do you consider yourself, like, a sensitive person? Like, are you.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, I think so.

[Pete Holmes]

I would have been shocked.

[Shang Wang]

I mean, of course, you know, it's some. You know, you miss some things, but, like, yeah, I think generally pretty sensitive.

[Pete Holmes]

And do you get, like, overwhelmed by the world? Like, if you're. If so much is coming in sometimes.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. It seems like if you're cooking for your girl, I use your terms. I don't want to say girlfriend. It feels too formal.

[Shang Wang]

If you're cooking for your girl.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. I get the sense that you're trying to curate that vibe. Like, I imagine a loud party or a club or something. I don't know what. What overwhelms you. Like, what's the situation where you're like, oh, I'm a little bit weird.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. Like a big social thing kind of can be like, you know, you're more comfortable.

[Pete Holmes]

Let me finish that for you. Or lead this into you. You're more comfortable on stage than if you were just mingling with the crowd.

[Shang Wang]

Right. I mean, I guess it depends on what kind of crowd, you know? Like.

[Pete Holmes]

Like.

[Shang Wang]

I mean. Yeah, I mean, like, industry. I don't really care for industry. And thirsty.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

Thirsty actors. Thirsty players.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Shang Wang]

You know?

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. I don't like that whole people Strategizing on what you should do with your creativity next.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, just that whole scene of, like, people of business and networking and FaceTime and. I don't know, you know, I'm not. I'm not a really.

[Pete Holmes]

You just saying facetime was just hard

[Shang Wang]

for both of us.

[Pete Holmes]

I think it was, like, a hard thing to hear that, like. Oh, yeah, like, strategy. Like, almost like, plotting.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. I just am not. And. And that's kind of, you know, especially, you know, when you start your early part of your career in comedy and maybe even later. You just need to be. You need to do some of that.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

You know, and I. I did what I had to, like, the bare minimum. I was never aggressive with any of that stuff. I always, like, waited too long to try to. Yeah. To ask or to just start, like,

[Pete Holmes]

you know, what's something. You waited too long, you know, like.

[Shang Wang]

Like, I started in San Francisco. I was in LA for a little bit, then I was in New York, 2009, and, like, I went right back to the open mics. Ah. I was already, you know, at some level, like, you know, working at the clubs. Well, at least the ones that. That knew me in the Bay and then in California. But I went right back to the open mics and I did, you know, it was a long. I was, like, slow to, like, get myself out there again and, like, you know, establish myself on the scene.

[Pete Holmes]

Meaning if you had had more slickness, let's call it, you would have gone to a club and been like, hey, I'm an established comedian.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. Or just been more aggressive about, like, trying to, like, let people know they should book me. You know?

[Pete Holmes]

You don't even want to say it now. You don't even want to say it now.

[Shang Wang]

You know, maybe I could do well on your show.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, but you wouldn't be who you are if you were that. You know what I mean?

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, if you were that guy, you'd be a different comedian, probably. So it fits. But, like, when you did those mics, I did the same thing, by the way. I wasn't quite established. I did some MC work out of Chicago, and then when I went to New York, I went back to the mics and I thought that was kind of smart because you could do well. Yeah. Like, you'd be the. Is that. Was that your experience?

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Be like, oh, I'm doing well. People are kind of like, what the fuck is.

[Shang Wang]

Sort of, you know, sort of.

[Pete Holmes]

Really? Yeah, because it was.

[Shang Wang]

I mean, it was just, like, really, like, supportive. But it's just too much to do some, you know, you can't be. You had a. I don't know, it was just a little too much. It was quite depressing, to be honest.

[Pete Holmes]

Performing for nobody or.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. I mean, just being open mics too long. Too much.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

You know, you got, I mean it's real and it's good to go every now and then still. And I think that's, it's not, you know, I think it's a good thing that it's a necessary. It's a part of our thing.

[Pete Holmes]

I consider the original room an open mic.

[Shang Wang]

Oh yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, that has open mic energy.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Even if it's full and I'm not putting it down.

[Shang Wang]

I'm just like, I think that's good though.

[Pete Holmes]

I'll do what I think is a 10 out of 10 joke. It'll get a three and I'm like, oh, right. Like, do you feel that?

[Shang Wang]

I mean, yeah, I think that's, that's, that's what comedy is.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

You know, that's what these reps are. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I just got a little, it was just a little dark for me the first couple years in New York.

[Pete Holmes]

Uh huh.

[Shang Wang]

I was doing, I was, I was desperate for stage time, but I wasn't pushy about getting the good stuff and I was just like, whatever, you know. Yeah, there were some rough times.

[Pete Holmes]

Really? Yeah. Did you fall into the, like the drinking depression?

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, yeah, of course. I mean, not necessarily the depression part, but just like drinking and you know, because it's like moving to New York. The exciting part was like, you don't have to drive everywhere.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that's right. So it's a big enabler.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, yeah. That's when I started wearing glasses because I was like, I don't have time to take my contacts off. Coming home drunk like that.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah,

[Shang Wang]

yeah. It was just, I mean when I say, well, yeah, the drinking was a thing, but also like, it was just like I, I got stage time at like shows that were just full of tourists that were lied to.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right.

[Shang Wang]

You know you were hoodwinked. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

To this show.

[Shang Wang]

These. Yeah. These people coming into expecting to see Kevin Hart and Eddie Murphy and Louis C.K. and it's just like me and a bunch of like.

[Pete Holmes]

It really is a scam. Yeah, it's a huge scam. A scam that we all sort of should apologize for. We're sorry. Like I was in that scam too.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like, yeah. The greatest comedians in the world. And it's actually, you know, maybe, maybe Chappelle's here.

[Shang Wang]

Not at the shows. I would still never. Dude.

[Pete Holmes]

Meaning he did a little stint there, but we, we would say. And then for months would be like, chappelle was here?

[Shang Wang]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Two months. Two months ago. You don't know.

[Shang Wang]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And then. It's awful. So is that what was the heaviest part? That. The trickery of it?

[Shang Wang]

I mean, just the people coming in that, you know, where are you at the ha. This is like.

[Pete Holmes]

What is it?

[Shang Wang]

The. Under the Broadway? The. No, not next to the Broadway. This, this other small, weird room that wasn't. There was a Broadway comedy club next to. It was another thing that Eastville. No, this is like up in 53rd. 56.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay.

[Shang Wang]

Like that.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, that's too high. I'm just kidding.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, it's very high. And I would ride my bike. I would bike there. I would bike there.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, no.

[Shang Wang]

I show up super sweaty. You know, I would bike there in the winter with my big puffy coat.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, my God.

[Shang Wang]

Get hella sweaty. Go in there, throw my coat off, dripping, just ready. And then a bunch of people who would think they're gonna go see Lucy K. Or Kevin Hart, you know, then they just. This dude, they've been lied to.

[Pete Holmes]

And this guy's moist.

[Shang Wang]

I'm moist, I'm glistening and yeah, it was just rough, dude.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. I couldn't relate more.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Every show I wanted to open with an apology.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Everybody's unhappy and it was me who barked them in.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, I lied.

[Shang Wang]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Guess what? It's actually me.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You thought it was Kevin Hart. It's actually the dude that just handed you this flyer. Yeah. Oh, man, I forgot about how dirty that felt.

[Shang Wang]

Those were rough times, man.

[Pete Holmes]

Then what snapped you out of it?

[Shang Wang]

Like, I just had to leave. I said no more of this. Yeah. After, After a certain.

[Pete Holmes]

You had a moment of clarity.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. I was like, this is a knee stage time, but at a certain point, this is not beneficial anymore.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember seeing you around that time. You had short hair. Yeah, right?

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

This, this is the right hair. I, I don't mean that in an industry way. This feels like you. I remember that guy. I, I, it just wasn't as. What am I talking about? Your hair? I'm just saying, like, it didn't. This seems more like you figured yourself out a little bit.

[Shang Wang]

I mean, this is a discovery. During the pandemic, like, I didn't, you know, I tried to, like, grow my hair long, like, 2000, like, early days of doing my standup. And I got to that weird period. And I think Guy Branham was in the scene at the time. You know, he started. We were all in the scene in San Francisco. And he was very supportive for like the first few months. And then it got to a certain moment. He was like, yeah, you should cut it. Or he said. He made a comment that made me lose confidence. I couldn't follow through with it. And then. So I thought that was my last chance. Yes. And then came around and then. And then I just, I. I just canceled my appointment. March 2020. And then it came out like this.

[Pete Holmes]

And then like, well, I don't want to spend too much time on it. But that, the outfit and the hair and everything just felt in line with the comedy. But it is part of it. I. I know it's like a little weird to talk about.

[Shang Wang]

Sure.

[Pete Holmes]

But it's like how we look and dress is part of the art.

[Shang Wang]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like the presentation.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's. There is something that sort of clicked. What I was going to say was like, my memory of you in New York, which is only once in a while. Like, I feel like our paths crossed.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. Here and there.

[Pete Holmes]

Every year, two, year, three, whatever. But is this. I'm going to be embarrassed if I'm wrong, but didn't you have a joke where you go, I don't want to get married because I read a statistic that said 50% of marriages last forever. Is that you?

[Shang Wang]

I don't think so. I don't know. I can't.

[Pete Holmes]

I thought for sure it was.

[Shang Wang]

No.

[Pete Holmes]

Do you want it? I'm gonna be embarrassed if it's just some other Asian guy.

[Shang Wang]

I don't know. I don't know whose that is. I don't think I wrote that one.

[Pete Holmes]

I only brought it up to be like, that's a great joke.

[Shang Wang]

Interesting.

[Pete Holmes]

It's a. Do you like it?

[Shang Wang]

I like it. I like it.

[Pete Holmes]

You like it?

[Shang Wang]

Okay, I like it. Okay. I don't usually go into statistics. I usually. I don't know, maybe I love statistics.

[Pete Holmes]

I'll steer that back to you. You do something really brilliant specifically about stuff like statistics, where like, you're talking about when a kid asks a grown up something about the moon. Now I'm like, if I told that joke, the whole thing would be what the kid asks, but you actually find this really elegant way. It doesn't matter what the kid asks. You can just put it in a punchline. You can go like, he asks a question about science that he's not prepared to ask or whatever. So that's funny. And he would go, and now my buddy is struggling to understand the workings of the moon, or whatever you say. Instead of what I would do telling that story, he comes up and goes, dad, how do tides work? Cause I think that would get a laugh. You're like, let's cut that. Like, we don't need. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, you're cutting everything that isn't essential.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, I mean, you know, it'd be. I'm open to expanding and exploring around it. But for me, that joke was about the grownups.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Shang Wang]

You know, let's putting grownups on the spot. Yeah, yeah. Kids are always funny and hilarious and they're always crazy things to us, but it makes sense on some level because, you know, if we're all, you know. But for me, the, the. Yeah, because so you can. I almost plug in some of those things, you know, because I did some of that in my first special where I said my, My nephew said that my, my breasts smell like birds. You can always, you know, they can. They have the wildest, like, metaphors, you know.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Shang Wang]

So for me, like, yeah, that's an exercise, right, to like, come up with the wild thing that some kid would. Could say. But it's hard to beat the real stuff.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that's true.

[Shang Wang]

You know, so for me, I'm not in that moment. That joke is about, like, that moment when grown ups have to, like, say, explain something to the kids, but they're also on the spot because there's other grownups around. Yes. And it just gets so awkward.

[Pete Holmes]

You kept it clean, though. Because, like, what I'm seeing here is, you know, what are we talking about? And what's extraneous? What's extraneous? Like, I might get greedy. When I say that's how I might have done the joke. I don't mean it's right. I might go like, well, saying what the kid said might be funny. But you're like, actually, this is the perspective of the joke. The perspective is about my buddy.

[Shang Wang]

Right?

[Pete Holmes]

Let's. Let's stay in line. When you're doing your stuff, is it written out like, word perfect? I don't mean to sound like a

[Shang Wang]

I. I start with, you know, an idea. Just a description of an idea. Maybe a line or something. And then it's just like a bunch of iterations of trying it organically.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

You know.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, you start with the line and then you go up on stage with it.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. I mean, I start with the idea of the joke, but with knowing, like, what the angles are. Right. And so basically, I used to write it down. Just immediately, this is a joke. Write it down. But now I try to, like, have the idea, you know, whatever it is, and then try it on stage as many times as I can, recording it so that it can be organic. You know, when you start writing it, immediately it's hard. That's not really how you say it.

[Pete Holmes]

The way you say it is going to come out a little bit different.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I say this all the time, but Louis says there's right brain, which is, like, reciting, and there's left brain, which is communicating. It's, like, actually better to let the left brain. I might be mixing that up, but let the left brain say it. Then the right brain can write down what the left brain said.

[Shang Wang]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Instead of making the left brain say what the right brain thinks the left brain would say.

[Shang Wang]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

You got me.

[Shang Wang]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

So I think that's exactly right.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. So, like, I like to start with just the natural. Like, let it come out. Yeah. As many times as you can, and then put it on the page and then approach it, you know, more. Whatever brain that is.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

And then do it again back and forth.

[Pete Holmes]

Yep. You know, dude, you know what you have in your special is you have two openers. I'm going to explain what I mean. You have two great openers. The opening of the special is you say, I'm feeling pretty good.

[Shang Wang]

I'm eating berry.

[Pete Holmes]

I've been eating a lot of berries, which I just. It really does take my breath away. Like, a good opener. Like, something that goes, like, what? But I want to hear more. And I'm laughing. Right. It's just like a funny. Like, I think funny openers are so hard.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, man.

[Pete Holmes]

And you were like, I'm feeling good. I've been eating a lot of berries. That's just, like, absurd enough. Like, a little. You know what I mean? Like, how's it gonna.

[Shang Wang]

Oh, what?

[Pete Holmes]

Like, it's exciting and interesting, and I already. When I saw you at the store, I complimented. I was like, I can't believe you opened with this great bit about berries. And then later, it's about 25 minutes in, you go. I don't know if you can tell by my energy, but I've been cooking with shallots. I go, that's an opener, too. You have two openers. You know what I'm saying? Like, you could have opened one. I was.

[Shang Wang]

I tested that Tell me. I tested that. That was. We. I was, you know, I. I was talking to my friend Louis. He helped me, like, do some of the last minute, like, kind of consulting on the. On that special. And Louis Katz.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

And he was pushing for me to try to make that the opener.

[Pete Holmes]

Really?

[Shang Wang]

We tried it, you know, and there were moments that it seemed like it could work.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Shang Wang]

But we were just worried, I don't know. Shallots may be a little. It is more obscure.

[Pete Holmes]

No, shallots is your 25 minute restart. Yeah, I actually thought it was. I could talk about this endlessly, I think, and I'm trying to get this started. You should have a closer at 15, which you do that. Like, I think you need to close about 15, 20 minutes in. That's your first closer. It's a soft closer. And then you start again. 20 should have the 20 reboot.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Let's get this started with comics, the 20 reboot. So you need that. I could have started with this, but Barry's is so much more relatable.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. So that's kind of why we did it that way. I mean, but you're right, though, that 20 minute mark, Louis Katz also was saying, that's a point where we need to reload the audience because there's something that happens there.

[Pete Holmes]

I completely agree. They're in the show, and you kind of have to snap them out of it somehow. You have to be like, don't forget. Like, I don't know, like, it's not an intermission, but there needs to be a reset. For some reason.

[Shang Wang]

It's a little. Maybe it's timed with, like, the length of a sitcom. I don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

It could be. That was one episode. Yeah, that was one episode. Did you ever. That reminded me Mitch Hedberg, when I saw him in Chicago. Obviously, you guys are sold in the same store, right? Would you agree with that? I mean, like. And I'm so happy in the same way that I think Phoebe Bridgers is sold in the same story as Elliot Smith. And I'm so glad that we kind of get new Elliott songs from Phoebe Bridgers. And, like, not that. That's. Not that you're doing new Mitch stuff, but I'm glad that somebody's carrying that perspective forward. And he had a joke where he was like, nobody wants to give me a sitcom. He's like, I'm on stage for 45 minutes every day. That's a sitcom and a half. Like, very classic. What is your relationship did the first time you heard him did it Explode your brain.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. I mean, it did, absolutely. I was just playing with the idea of doing stand up. This is college. And my roommates introduced me. They were like, there's this guy on. There's a Comedy Central special you should check out. And it just changed because when I first. First started doing comedy, I didn't grow up on this stuff. So I didn't even have any childhood dreams about doing this stuff, you know, Like, I was just dab. Like I said, I was in college trying to figure things out, taking these different classes and.

[Pete Holmes]

Business stuff.

[Shang Wang]

Right, Business stuff. But, you know, the photography and the poetry and everything. So I was just, like, trying to figure it all out.

[Pete Holmes]

Two sides.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, which way are we gonna go?

[Shang Wang]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Business and poetry.

[Shang Wang]

I mean, I got the business degree, but I went this other route, you know, but it was what we're talking about.

[Pete Holmes]

Talking about Mitch. Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. So. So when I heard. So my idea of stand up at that time was very, like, minimal.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

And I knew Chris Rock, I knew Chris Tucker, and I've seen some of the Def Comedy Jam commercials. That's it. And I've seen, you know, most that's

[Pete Holmes]

figured it out from commercials. That's so funny.

[Shang Wang]

We didn't have cable, so I only saw some things here and there, maybe like some late night monologues, but I didn't really understand what this was. But. So when I started dabbling in stand up in college, I was just doing impressions of like, Chris Rock or, you know, or Adam Carolla or some comedians at the time that I had just heard and.

[Pete Holmes]

But it wasn't shorter, Joe. Well, you don't even. I also want to step that out and say, you're different from Mitch. Like, Mitch is doing shorter stuff. You have more longer chunks and you're your own guy. But, like, when you were starting, it didn't even have any of the flavor that you have now.

[Shang Wang]

No, I mean, you know, when I was starting 20 plus years ago, you know, we all had those sound alikes at every show. Every open mic had either an Attell, a Hebberg, a Regan, a Regan.

[Pete Holmes]

I was the Regan. Yeah, I was just doing rigging.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. So I'm sorry. Yeah. And. And yeah, I was definitely more just a Hedberg fan, you know, and that was our.

[Pete Holmes]

We are almost exactly the same age. And like you would when Hedberg came out. Cause he figured something out.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

He was like, there are jokes that aren't funny unless you say them a certain way.

[Shang Wang]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Nobody was really. Maybe Steven Wright was kind of doing that.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But, like, Hedberg was really like, yeah. Could make some goofy. I say this with respect. Frozen banana later. I want a regular banana later. Is goofy.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, it's goofy.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm not saying it's bad. I'm saying that is some silly. It's so silly. And then he was like, but if I say something silly, like a cool guy.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

There's another joke, Right. You thought I was going to be talking about, I don't know, my van or, like, classic rock, and I'm talking about bananas. You know what I mean? There's another joke at play. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.

[Shang Wang]

No, I mean, for me, just seeing. Yes. There's the delivery.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Shang Wang]

And then there's just, like, this idea that you can do comedy based on these really small, random things in your head.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Shang Wang]

And I never had. That was. That was like, the biggest thing for me, because before that, I thought I had to just be somebody else or be, like, a different person or me.

[Pete Holmes]

I thought you had to tell stories where you're the winner. You know what I mean? Like, so I punched the guy in the face. Open the door. It's the mayor. And, like, you have to win. And when I read sign language, that was my Mitch moment, where I was like, this guy's doing jokes about hotel soap being small. I like to pretend it's regular soap. And my muscles are huge. I'm like, that's my brain.

[Shang Wang]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

It blew me away. I didn't. And he was the biggest comedian in the world. He still is. Seinfeld. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So. And Mitch is the same thing. It's like, I'm gonna do a joke about rice. I like rice. When I'm in the mood for a thousand of something, I'm like, I'm sorry. Then what does he say? Then he talks about his dick. Nope. That's the joke.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I just. That. That. That just changed. It just gave me a new idea of what this could be. And, like, maybe I could do it. Maybe I don't have to be somebody else.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. There was a space for your kind of humor.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But what was it?

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, you watched this? The Presents. Yeah. Which he doesn't do well.

[Shang Wang]

No, I mean, he did well for

[Pete Holmes]

us, but with the crowd, it worked.

[Shang Wang]

Eventually. I mean, he gave up.

[Pete Holmes]

He gave up and sat down.

[Shang Wang]

And sat down, and he just did the joke straight. Like, sitting down. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's a classic.

[Shang Wang]

But it worked.

[Pete Holmes]

It's a classic.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

The set we're talking about is Mitch's first half hour, right?

[Shang Wang]

I believe so.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's just not clicking.

[Shang Wang]

No, he was eating it. He was bombing it.

[Pete Holmes]

He was bombing on his half hour, which, by the way, you and I both did presents.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You could totally bomb a present.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You're just. It's like a showcase. You're just like, they're watching more than you. You're not. Nobody knows. None. Not a single fan is just an audience. And if you're not ready for what Mitch Hedberg is doing, and they weren't right. He sat down and just said the jokes.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And crestfallen. Crestfallen, sad. And here we are still talking about it.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, it was a great. I mean, as being.

[Pete Holmes]

As being great. Yeah, yeah. Was. The audience just wasn't in the room.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, like, we were the audience. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know when you do a taping, which is always such a nerve wracking thing for us because it's. It's a record recording, which. Which we never ever do. And so, like I always say, I mean, my idea is like, don't worry about that stuff, because we don't. We're not used to that stuff. So let's just focus on the people. Right? But if the people suck, then focus on the camera. Go to the people on the other side later.

[Pete Holmes]

Go wherever they'll have you.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Did you feel that on Purple? Because that's one of the things I really admire was when I'm watching a special, I actually don't really like taping. I don't think any of us really love taping a special because it's something that's already high pressure. And then it's like. And guess what? We're gonna chisel this into stone and that'll be your special. So you can get in your head. But you seemed really calm.

[Shang Wang]

I mean, as much as I could, you know, but yeah, I mean, I was trying to get there, like, in preparation for it.

[Pete Holmes]

You mean running?

[Shang Wang]

Just running? Yeah, reps. And just getting it super, super tight and just being like super confident and happy about it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

You know?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Shang Wang]

But it's still hard, man. It still wasn't my best performance, I feel like.

[Pete Holmes]

Really?

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, that's crazy.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

See, I think because when you see it, you remember how you felt in certain moments. I. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when I watch my own special, I'll be like, oh, that, that was awful. And Val will be like, she's really aghast. Is the only way. She's like, are you watching what I'm like, are you hearing? And that's probably how I feel about you.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, I think. I think, yes. I think you're right. I think a lot of it. Cause, like, you know, after you tape it, there's still, like, a little bit of touring left. Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And you improve it and you feel

[Shang Wang]

like, that sounds better. That feels better, bro.

[Pete Holmes]

There's a special twinge to when you perfect something. It's funny. You and I both have a joke. You don't talk about cold showers, but I love that thing about getting in the shower and turning on the water. So I had this line. It wasn't on my special, but I hurt my neck, and it was because I took a cold shower, and I, like, kind of twisted my neck. And then I filmed the special, and I just said, I took a cold shower. And then later I went, I was taking a cold shower because I accidentally listened to a podcast, which was such a better line for me. Like, that's such a thing at that time that every podcaster was talking about, like, cold exposure. And it wasn't on the special. And I always remember those lines where I'm like, I have one now. I think I just filmed a special. I had this whole chunk on AI and then lately I've been riffing on how the robot costume for kids that won't be cool like that. Like, wearing the boxes and going, beep, boop, beep, boop. Like, robots don't sound like that. Like, that's robot voice. You're doing robot voice. You're doing robot face. I go, that's our hobo. Like, remember when you and I were kids, you could dress up as a hobo. Robot is the new hobo. So that whole part isn't in the special unless we tape it again. I don't know.

[Shang Wang]

Why not?

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, because we already filmed it.

[Shang Wang]

Oh, if we already filmed it.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't know.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm kind of going, like, we might shoot it again. I don't. Like. I'm trying to shoot more. More shows on the cheap, cheap side of things. Then put it all on. Put it all on.

[Shang Wang]

That might be smart. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't know. Let's see. Things are so much easier to film.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. I'm Dr. Susan Swick, a child psychiatrist and the host of Talk About Able. This season, I'm talking with parents and experts about how we tackle the everyday challenges of raising kids. We'll get real about those pebble in the shoe issues we all face. As parents and how to build resilience and community through our own experiences. Talk About Able Season 2 from Lemonada Media in partnership with Montage Health and their Ohana center for Child and Family Mental Health is out now.

[Pete Holmes]

But anyway, what we were saying. You were saying something, and I started talking about, oh, bits that you improve. You toured after you did this.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. I mean, I, I think you're right. Sometimes it's just a feeling inside. It might look the same.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

On the outside.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

You know, but, yeah, I, I, I, I knew going in there's gonna be touring afterwards, and I wanted it to try to get it to the point where when we shot it, I would. It would be very hard to find anything better, you know, But I still found it's small little. Just the performance things here and there.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's so funny. Yeah. What is the sound you make when you're getting away from the ghost? It's like a ya or something. There's so much, and I hope you can hear this. I think it's a great compliment. There's so much that you're showing us that we know, but we don't know. We know. Like, that berries are precious is a good example. And that when you, when you skirt out of a room, you go,

[Shang Wang]

I love that little tuck. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And shoes off. But you have to go back in the house. But you do. Hot floor, my daughter calls it. Hot floor is lava. The floor is lava. The floor is hot lava. That sort of stuff that, like, you know that, but you forgot that. It's like when you see someone do an impression and you're like, I didn't know that's what that person sounded like. That's kind of what you're doing for reality.

[Shang Wang]

I guess so. I guess so.

[Pete Holmes]

You're going like, you didn't know. Like, I've never stepped out. That berries are expensive and kids don't appreciate them. But everyone knows that. Yeah, everyone knows that. People with kids, People who don't have kids.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That one blueberry is probably like 25 cents. They're so expensive.

[Shang Wang]

They're so expensive.

[Pete Holmes]

It's way too expensive to give a child. That's why we made shark bites.

[Shang Wang]

Give them some bullshit. Yeah, yeah. Get the goldfish out. Fill her up. Give him some filler. Cut it, cut it, cut it with a little. Goldfish can't be pure berries, dude.

[Pete Holmes]

Goldfish is just like, feed. Yeah. It's just like, go to the trough and they're full because you're like, you can't give the good stuff to these kids.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. You gotta mix it up.

[Pete Holmes]

My daughter eats sand at the beach. You don't need to give her berries. She's good with sand.

[Shang Wang]

Sand is so unpleasant.

[Pete Holmes]

Can there be something worse?

[Shang Wang]

Ouchy.

[Pete Holmes]

It's gonna break your teeth.

[Shang Wang]

It's so tiny, but it's such an immense impact.

[Pete Holmes]

And did you know a lot of it is bones? It's like little bones of, like, tiny little creatures.

[Shang Wang]

No.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, bro. Give it a goo. Also respect on the tab bit, because I have so many tabs open. That's another. You're back on that.

[Shang Wang]

I mean, it went down.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, it's like having a clean desk.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'll clean my desk like, once a year. And it feels so good. And then, like, every. Like, you have this in the bed. Every once in a while, my computer will restart. Although it opens them. That bit is great. That's a great example of, like. There's also, like, a. It can be lonely. Life can be lonely, obviously. And then you see someone talking about, like, the feeling of all the tabs, and then your thing reboots, and it opens all the tabs, and we can't do all the. Like, a YouTube starts playing and all that stuff, and you go like. Like, oh, that's my experience. And suddenly you don't feel as alone in the world. You know what I'm saying?

[Shang Wang]

I think so.

[Pete Holmes]

That's definitely what I get from.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I love it. No, don't you say. Sorry. I. I'm really doing my best. I'm so excited to have you on the show. So I'm trying to not talk too much, but I am excited to tell you all the.

[Shang Wang]

I'm grateful to be here, man.

[Pete Holmes]

I mentioned this, and we.

[Shang Wang]

We're.

[Pete Holmes]

We're. We're almost out of time because I have to pick my daughter up. But that. I mentioned this to you at the store. You thank your ancestors in the special. Thanks. And I just thought that was really beautiful.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I mentioned very briefly that I've been trying to have more appreciation for where I came from. And I hope this wasn't crazy when I said I was like, your success is their success. Like, it's like, there you are, the vessel in which this line is experiencing it. I know literally, they're not experiencing it, we could say. But there's something about it. It's like you are them.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. We're just kind of part of this lineage.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Shang Wang]

Just spilling forward. And I'm kind of. You know, I'm just in the middle of this thing.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. You know, but continuing forward. Every sandwich they had, every bus they rode, every job they had all led to this. It's impossible to consider just how many things had to happen for it to be you then to find, stand up, than to succeed at it. And then, like, if your great grandfather could know what you're doing or if my. I want to even say great. If my grandfather could know what I'm doing and be like, what? And it feels really real and good to hold that in my awareness. To go like, my grandfather is with me doing this. My grandmother is with me doing this.

[Shang Wang]

I think that's healthy. I think it's good to, like. I think it's, you know, I think we have a tendency to cut all that off.

[Pete Holmes]

That's what I'm saying. Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

And it's not good. You know, it's not good. Why would we do we have this idea that everything is in the future and everything is technology and these other things that are going to help and teach us.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

All that wisdom and all the experience that, you know, our. Our parents, our grandparents, and our. Everybody before there's so much we. We could.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Shang Wang]

Learn from them.

[Pete Holmes]

We are the same. You and I are the same.

[Shang Wang]

I've.

[Pete Holmes]

My therapist deserves a lot of this credit. We. We do a type of therapy where you really kind of talk into different parts of yourself. And a lot of that has to do with hearing from what feels like your ancestors. Like, something that they want you to know. I don't mean, like, psychic stuff. I just mean, like, you're going in and going like, I feel like there's this. I'm carrying this thing forward, or it needs to be recognized or it wants to be acknowledged, and it just feels so, so good.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And is that when you thanked your ancestors? Is that what you're talking about?

[Shang Wang]

To a certain extent. I mean, you know that term. You can be like something like, be your ancestors. Wildest dreams.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

I mean, I love that it's sort of like that. Like, I just feel like it's crazy. I mean, I don't know them really. I know my parents, and I'm trying to get to know them better. All my grandparents have passed. You know, my grandma, I. I try to, like. I mean, I was. She was probably the one on my mom's, I was closest to, but it was limited, you know, based on how much time we had together and language barriers. But she was. She seemed like an awesome person. I wish I had more time with her, but, yeah, I tried to get to know her. And I tried to consider all the lives that came before, you know, the struggles that they endured and how those struggles.

[Pete Holmes]

That's when I. Cheers to you. Was I was like, we really can get so lost in thinking that what we're experiencing has never been experienced before. And even AI, like, I've gone into some really actually nice YouTube. I wouldn't even call them wormholes. Just kind of finding some good content where it was like when the printing press came out. The parallels between that and social media are crazy. And everybody thought this was the end of this and it was the end of troops. Truth. That's what they said. Because anybody could print 150 flyers that say Martians have landed and people would believe it. Disinformation is not new. And there's this deep warm comfort in going like, this is what we do. This is what human beings do. Overwhelming change floods in. And guess what? If you look back to what you're saying, instead of always just looking, guessing the future, which is always wrong, look to the past that that's been established and go, where have we done these sorts of things before?

[Shang Wang]

Right. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And also where we came from and how did they deal with it? Like.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And what can we learn from that?

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. Yeah. I just think it's great. Yeah. I think it's good to step back, see the bigger picture, see what's the historical context of things. But I mean. Yes, I agree. I think it's. Yes. So in that, in that, that, that. Thank you. I just wanted to shout them out, recognize that, you know, I think it would be cool if they could see.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

You know?

[Pete Holmes]

Yep.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That's what I was kind of getting on. I guess that is kind of trippy or maybe hippie. But I was like, you're seeing is. They're seeing.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, it's like, I don't know, man. You could even make a scientific argument for that. It's just like, it's this thing. It's like, you know, the house, this house. We've had to replace so many things and by the end you've replaced every board, but it's still the same house. That's kind of like you. It's like we've torn down these people, but we put the house. It's the same blueprint and it's like, I don't know. I think they are, in a literal way experiencing it somehow.

[Shang Wang]

I can't really explain it. They're with us somehow, you know?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. I don't know. I tell my Parents, I thank them. You know, I tell them, my success is your success.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that's. That's a beautiful thing to share. Yeah. And even the stuff that was, like, a little bit goofy or not ideal, like, that was. That's part of it too. Like we were figuring it out.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That thing I am getting more of, that thing where I'm like, oh, man, my parents were just people, too. I've always rolled my eyes at that.

[Shang Wang]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm like, no, damn it.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, that's true. I mean, it's crazy to think, like, my dad was a poor farm boy. Dude. Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, first generation immigrant, right?

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Crazy.

[Shang Wang]

They moved here. I was born in Taiwan, you know, and to go from that to this.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

Quite a. Quite a. Quite a journey, man.

[Pete Holmes]

Is that. Totally. My mom is a first generation Lithuanian immigrant. She left when she was 7. And so I had some of that. When I say outsider thing, I felt like an American. I felt like Bart Simpson. I don't know how you felt. I was like, just kind of, like, clicked with it. I was like, oh, I get it. Be like a rascal. Be a rascal and eat pizza. Yeah. Like a Ninja Turtle, too. I felt like I resonated with all of that stuff. Maybe. I don't know if everybody does, but. Did you feel that outsider thing? Did that help you kind of develop, like, an observant eye, do you think?

[Shang Wang]

I believe so. Yeah, man. Yeah. I think there was definitely a lot of, like, sense of awareness that we're not at white people.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was pretty early on. I think I caught wind of that. Houston.

[Pete Holmes]

Houston. Sorry.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. So I think pretty early on, I had that feeling of, like. Yeah. Just stepping back and stepping out of, like, observing the bigger picture. Like, right, we entered this room. What's the dynamics in here?

[Pete Holmes]

Right, right. And it's funny because, like, nowadays, even shoes off, that is like. Like an Asian, East Asian thing. I don't. I didn't. I don't think we think of it now. So many people do shoes off.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But at that time, it might have. Even. Even. That would have been weird. Like, right, you're coming to my house. Just so you know, they're gonna ask

[Shang Wang]

you to take your shoes.

[Pete Holmes]

Did your parents put out slippers, though?

[Shang Wang]

We had some slippers.

[Pete Holmes]

See, I had a joke about it. I was like, about shoes off. And I was like, I'm anti shoes off. It's actually our bits are similar because you talk about having some semblance of control in an uncertain world, and My argument is like, there is no control. You're gonna die. Just keep your shoes on. Like, stop, you're deluding yourself. But if I were to add something, because every once in a while I noticed that the bit was kind of like it could seem like anti Asian culture. Obviously I didn't worry about it too much, but I was like, yes, but we didn't do the full thing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the tradition is take your shoes off. But we have slippers.

[Shang Wang]

Like people get cold feet generally. Yes, yes, yes.

[Pete Holmes]

So we only did the first part.

[Shang Wang]

Right, Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Like we fucked it up.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, that was.

[Pete Holmes]

I get cold feet. So now I'm walking around leaving wet, sweaty footprints on your linoleum and I'm gonna leave early because my feet are cold. Like, so anyway, I'm glad I got confirmation.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. Ideally you would have some nice house slippers.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yes, yes, thank you. Okay, so in closing. That's a dumb thing to say, but we've talked about it. We're talking about it a little bit with your ancestors too. Some spiritual worldview that you have. And maybe not every day, but maybe just right now, like we are in outer space. We are in these temporary things. We're talking about our ancestors, we're talking about some sort of connection. And I'm not looking for like an eloquent. You don't have to like persuade anybody. I'm just wondering, do you have any spiritual center or perspective?

[Shang Wang]

I don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

Nice.

[Shang Wang]

A little bit. A little bit.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, I. I feel like. Yeah. I mean, I guess this is spiritual thing, you know, between. I mean, I think we've been. The whole idea of living life, I think is a spiritual thing. The whole idea, like it's a one shot deal and you enjoy as you can be as present as you can. Like that's. That's being spread. I think that's spiritual.

[Pete Holmes]

It absolutely spiritual. Because what do you. What are you settling into? You could say you're settling into your heart.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Or the moment. I think these are all synonyms for spirit.

[Shang Wang]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. So.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't know.

[Shang Wang]

I. I think so. I think I'm a spiritual person. I think in the Buddhist tradition somewhat. I mean, I just like. I like the ideas of Buddhism. Right. Like the impermanence thing, everything's constantly changing. Attachment, it's gonna lead you to suffering. Yeah. I don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

I like that. We got three noble truths.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. And the fourth one, there's more things. There's more to it.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I don't know it either. So don't feel like this is like, when a kid asks you about the moon.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm like, why do you like Buddhism? Drag. You're like, you're very good at comedy.

[Shang Wang]

Can you explain Buddhism?

[Pete Holmes]

But, like, in your life, when you. When. When we talked about Eckhart Tolle, like, you dabble in, like, reading that sort of stuff or. Or watching YouTubes or what?

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, like, I. I listened to that podcast between him and Oprah some years ago. Yeah, I love that. I love those ideas. I mean, they're all very helpful to me.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, it's one where he talks about eating French. Somebody asked about eating French fries. They're asking about, like, how you can use presents to stop overeating. And he's like, you just take the potato. He keeps calling the French fried the potato. You just take the potato and you. You eat the potato and then you go, maybe I'll have another potato. And I'm like, oh, so you don't struggle with food, huh?

[Shang Wang]

I think if you call it potato, it might help.

[Pete Holmes]

That's good.

[Shang Wang]

You want more potatoes?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, split some potatoes, some fries. Have so such good pr.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, say potato fries. Slow it down.

[Pete Holmes]

Give me that thin potato. It's not sexy. You want to go havesies on some potato?

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, slow it down.

[Pete Holmes]

Not really. Oh, that's true. Okay, so some of that stuff, I. I'm with you. I. I have no notes, for what it's worth. I'm just like, be. Being in your life, I think, just.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, and being your life. Being, like, know who you are, learn who you are. Engage with yourself.

[Pete Holmes]

Play it out.

[Shang Wang]

You play it out. Be present. Engage with your environment, engage with people and share it.

[Pete Holmes]

I mean, like, you're. When I asked you about success, you're talking about sharing it with people and the privilege of sharing it with people and watching people enjoying it. Yeah, that's. That's holy to me, I think connecting

[Shang Wang]

with people and, like. Like. Like, really recognize that whole idea of sonder.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't know.

[Shang Wang]

You know, this idea saunder. Like, I don't know. I think someone made up this word, but it's like the idea of, like. Like, everybody has this whole universe inside them. Everybody you see passing on the street, driving in the. You know, like, they have the same breadth and depth of dreams and hopes and aspirations and suffering and all the things that, you know, we think make us a complete person. Each individual, they all have that too. And, like, you know, it's just a form of empathy. I Guess. Compassion. Beautiful.

[Pete Holmes]

I didn't know there was a word for that. I do that because I'll have, like, some reflexive thought that is just totally uncaring and unkind. I'll be like. I go, they're the whole thing. The phenomenon of awareness that I have is the same phenomenon of awareness that they have. We're sharing the same miracle.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm like, look at your dumb hat. I'm like, whoops. It's okay.

[Shang Wang]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

But I just kind of lost sight of the saunder. Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

I didn't know that.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I think that that's spiritual, Right?

[Pete Holmes]

Of course it is.

[Shang Wang]

Paying attention. Like, believing that people are. Yeah. Human beings.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right. And having some. There's like. There's a quote that's like, be careful how you treat people. Because everyone's carrying some unseen burden. Like, we're all carrying some. We're all complicated and confused.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

When you wake up to pee at 3 in the morning or whatever, and you're like. You get a glimpse at what your mind is churning over and you're like, oh, my poor baby.

[Shang Wang]

Like, right.

[Pete Holmes]

That's everybody.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Everybody. Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

I think it's important to be. Be kind. I don't know. What were we talking about? Be kind.

[Pete Holmes]

Do you think when you die, it's over?

[Shang Wang]

I think so. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Nice, bro. Suddenly we're smoking a joint.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's a big one.

[Shang Wang]

I know. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. So do Shang while you can.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, do whatever. Do your thing. Enjoy your life. Help other people, you know?

[Pete Holmes]

But also, I really do think you're a great example of being authentic. Sorry if I've given you too many compliments. But, like, in a generation that's like,

[Shang Wang]

sorry, me, I gotta pee.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, go pee, please.

[Shang Wang]

I know we're trying to wind. I was trying. I was trying to hold it. To wind it down.

[Pete Holmes]

No, never hold it. Leave this into. Leave this into. This is uni. Okay. I have the compliment for you. But you know what's interesting? I'm gonna push back on your it's over when we die thing because it's interesting to consider that non. Another way to ask that is, does non being exist? Is it possible to not be?

[Shang Wang]

What were you before you came here?

[Pete Holmes]

That's what I'm saying, is, can't you be born and die? And because if. If there is such. If when we die, it's over, that means that something, this awareness, this emerged from nothing. Like, it had to have come from nothing. And that is the thing that, in my opinion, spirituality tries to address is like, so there's an Eckhart Tolle quote where he goes, death isn't the opposite of life. The opposite of death is birth. Life has no opposite meaning, is there? There's isness. And in that isness, like a screen, things like birth and death and appearing and disappearing appear. But the fundamental isness of reality can't come and go. And that's what you might call God. This is a weird thing to push back on, by the way. Okay, I'd be like, I take issue with your premise, but next time you do mushrooms, be like, when you say when, we're saying, do you think when you die, it's over. I'm actually asking, do you think non being exists? And then I'm like, how could I guess? Because, like, if you unplug a tv, right? We're like, well, now the TV is off. But really, everything that made the on ness of that TV didn't go anywhere, Just kind of scattered. You know what I'm saying? It lost its shape. There's something in the Dao De Ching where they're like, when you break a vase, the air that was in the vase doesn't reunite with the air around it. It was never separate from. But that. It's kind of what death is. You break a vase and there's no more shape to that vase. It's been dispersed. But really there was only ever one empty space. Is this too weird?

[Shang Wang]

No.

[Pete Holmes]

Anyway, I just thought it was. You peed right after that question. So I was like, yeah. Oh, I had time to think about it.

[Shang Wang]

No, no, no. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, that all makes sense what you said.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. It's hard for me to even explain it and talk about it. So don't feel like you need to have some. It's just like if there is. If we go away, then what we are came out of nothing.

[Shang Wang]

Well, yeah. What are we?

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that's the other. That's the alternative, right?

[Shang Wang]

Maybe we came from what we came from. Maybe we came from what is here already.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right.

[Shang Wang]

So you're saying we just kind of go back to what is here already?

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. If you think of if life is this. This ness again, the screen is a good thing. Like things appear and disappear and we know that, like our thoughts, like our thoughts emerge, have an existence, and then they vanish back into what they emerged out of. So the question is, what is it that they're emerging out of? And what are they receding into? They rise, and they set in the same knowing field that you essentially are. We tell that knowing field. You are Shang. You were born in Taiwan. You moved to Houston. You are a comedian. But if you don't tell yourself that story, if you just sit quietly, you see that you're still. You're more like the space in the vase. You're like empty space. And that empty space. So the idea, the story of Shang can go away. This is where people might be like, pete's out of his mind, but that dies. That. That can go away. The story can end. But what the story emerged on, we can go to the metaphor, the screen. Somebody dies on a movie screen, nothing happens to the screen. Somebody dies in the movie, the screen remains. So spirituality is asking, like, what is the essential nature of reality? And you are that, like, what you actually are in your essence, what can't be removed is this knowing space, like presence. And that's Buddhism. That's luminous emptiness. So it's nothing, but it's this knowing nothing. And in that knowing nothing, appearances come and go. This too shall pass. You said that too. And don't hold on to anything, too. It's just like fireworks in the sky. But when the fireworks end, the sky is still there.

[Shang Wang]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Let's do some ketamine.

[Shang Wang]

That sounds cool. That sounds cool. I mean, I want to. I want to kind of go back to the Sonder thing. I mean, in terms of, like. I mean, basically, what we're talking about is recognizing life.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes, that's right. That's right.

[Shang Wang]

Recognizing life. And I think we need to go beyond individuals on the street to, like, life.

[Pete Holmes]

Big life.

[Shang Wang]

Life. Right. Life is all of these things. Right. And it's all equally. I mean, probably every piece is equally important.

[Pete Holmes]

I agree.

[Shang Wang]

You know, and we. I think that's very important for us to, like, get back to this idea of, like. Like, us not being separate from life.

[Pete Holmes]

Bro.

[Shang Wang]

All that stuff is super valuable and important and necessary, you know?

[Pete Holmes]

And you're not like a visitor in life. You are life. No.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You're the thing.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I always talk about, you know, in old cartoons that put the cell that they'd paint the. The character on a clear piece of paper called a cell, and they'd put it on the background. That's how we think we are. We're, like, visiting reality. You are reality.

[Shang Wang]

Right, right, right.

[Pete Holmes]

There's no. There's no break. We conceptualize a break between you and me, but really, it's. It's more like characters In a movie, looking for the screen, and you can't. You can't find it, but you're both on it, right? And that's life.

[Shang Wang]

That's interesting.

[Pete Holmes]

That's how baked into it you are. Alan Watts has a line. You don't come into this world. You come out of this world. You emerge from it.

[Shang Wang]

Right, right.

[Pete Holmes]

Like a leech. Shang Wang, new special. The weirdest plug. The weirdest plug.

[Shang Wang]

It's weird.

[Pete Holmes]

I've never had somebody pee during the God section. It gave me a weird second to be like, I wonder if Shang would like this, if that would be interesting to you. But life having no opposite. There's death and birth, but life is the only continuous thing.

[Shang Wang]

I mean, it's continuing. It is continuing with or without us. This thing is tumbling forward.

[Pete Holmes]

That's it. You know, but the river and your ancestors were in it, and now you're in it. But the river remains. Yes, yes.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go back to the river.

[Pete Holmes]

That's it. Rupert Spiro would say you're like a whirlpool in a river. So you have an apparent separate shape and expression. And when that whirlpool ends, you just disperse back into the river. But the river is the constant. And we could call that reality, or we could call that God, or we could call that love, or we could call it life. Life. Yeah. But you're in it.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm glad we talked about. I'm glad we stepped this out.

[Shang Wang]

I'm down with that.

[Pete Holmes]

I am almost out of time. What was the compliment? Oh, I was going to say you are a real example of authenticity, meaning you. You're doing this. Your comedy is, like, very, like, you're checking in. Like, check in with yourself. Like, are you okay? Like, there's a lot of love in it. There's a lot of. Of self love and self care. And that is not necessarily. It's finding a moment. I'm not saying you're a moment. I'm just saying, like, you found your audience, but when you were starting, like, you know, I love Dane Cook. I'm not putting him down. There was a time when it was like, that's comedy.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then you're up there going, like, appreciate the Barry. You know what I mean? Like, you never were, like, oh, I think I should chase a trend or be something that I'm not.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. I mean, you find that, you know, starting out, you're chasing. You're imitating your favorites and you're, you know, trying to figure it out, and you're. You Know, you fall into these ideas of, like, I should write a joke about this. This should be a joke, because this is what comedy should be, right? Yeah. Eventually, hopefully, you get to a place where you can just start to. I mean. Yeah, that's kind of. These are just things that. That I am sort of personally like, you know, dealing with or worried about or concerned, you know, so I.

[Pete Holmes]

You're being authentic. Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

These are just small things in my life, and I think what I try to do is I want to share these little things, but try to tie it to something a little bit bigger.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Shang Wang]

And that's it. That's the thing, right? It's a high, low, small, big kind of those connections, those, like, context and. I don't know, those, those. Those framings. Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That is what you're doing.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You're tying all these things together. I really feel the audience going like, oh, I'm so glad we're here. I'm so glad we're here.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah. I think people usually like. It's a comforting thing. Comfort is safe. They're not going to be, like, you know, bombarded in some. Or ambushed. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes, that's right. We're in the same. Even though our styles are different, I think our intent for the audience is the same. I'd like you to be less afraid. I'd like you to feel more connected and I'd like you to laugh at some silly stuff.

[Shang Wang]

Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. Be more human, be more connected, be more uplifted and be more loving.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah. It really comes through. It really does. And it came through in this interview, whatever this conversation. Appreciate you. So. Thank you, Pete. Like I said, Purple is one of the best specials I've seen in 10 years. It's incredible.

[Shang Wang]

Thank you.

[Pete Holmes]

Not 11.

[Shang Wang]

Just kidding.

[Pete Holmes]

That's when Bring the Pain game. I don't know. I don't know what I'm saying, but it's incredible. Katie also loved it.

[Shang Wang]

Very sweet. Thank you.

[Pete Holmes]

And I was very excited you did the show. Would you say, keep it crispy? It's just how we end. There's no gimmick to it. It's not a trick. It's just you sign off by saying, keep it crispy.

[Shang Wang]

Thank you, Pete. Keep it crispy.

[Pete Holmes]

Very good.

[Shang Wang]

You made it. We made it weird.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes, you did.