Al Franken

Summary

Podcast Summary: "You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes"

Guest: Al Franken
Date: October 26, 2022
Host: Pete Holmes

---

Episode Overview

This episode features Pete Holmes in conversation with comedy legend, writer, and former U.S. Senator Al Franken. The discussion intertwines Franken's long career in comedy—most notably as an early writer and cast member of Saturday Night Live (SNL)—with his unique pivot into politics. Pete and Al explore themes of comedic compulsion, finding one’s lane in show business, the transition from comedy to politics, the psychology of comedians, integrity in public life, navigating partisanship, and the mystery of existence. The tone is candid, funny, and full of offbeat anecdotes.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Al Franken’s Comic Roots and SNL Origins

• Flexibility and First Days in the Senate (12:02): Franken shares a story about being mistaken for his TV persona by Senator Chuck Grassley, leading to an unexpectedly comedic exchange.

  "Oh, you look just like you look on TV." (13:11, Al Franken)

• Working with Tom Davis (15:11): Franken reflects on his SNL writing partner Tom Davis, their beginnings in high school, and how they became two of the show’s first writers.

  "We went to high school together... and we were two of the original SNL writers." (15:29, Al Franken)

• SNL’s Early Days (16:00, 36:08):

  • The SNL writers’ room and cast dynamics in the 1970s—fewer people, everyone multitasked, and tight bonds.
  • SNL’s evolution from a wild, tight-knit show to a larger ensemble with more structure, more pre-taped segments, and “less cocaine and all-nighters."

  "We had seven cast members... If there was a sketch and someone was a waiter, it was a writer." (36:17–36:43, Al Franken)

• Comedic Influence and Improv:

  • Franken notes he never officially trained in improv, unlike Tom Davis, but absorbed improvisational skills through osmosis and by working with legends.

  "I have no improv training, but Tom's improv training was... write the joke, which was, 'Go to the phone, dial 911...'" (32:54, Al Franken)

---

2. Comedic Process and Psychology

• Calling to Comedy (28:04):

  • Franken describes the pressure to pursue science in his family but ultimately feeling called to comedy, as revealed through humorous family anecdotes and psychometric tests.

  "The only question I remember was 'I have not had any black and tarry bowel movements.'" (29:40, Al Franken)

  • He boils down a comedian’s job as part camp counselor, part jazz musician—a blend of uplifting and improvisational skills (32:00+).

• Purpose in Comedy (47:46):

  • Both Pete and Al agree the best comedians are motivated by a compulsion to make themselves (and their peers) laugh, not just for external validation.

  "The only reason to do comedy is if you have to." (47:47, Al Franken)

• Writing for Yourself vs. the Audience (50:39):

  • Al: "People ask me, what's your favorite memory from SNL? ...three in the morning, Wednesday morning, ...just rolling on the floor laughing."
  • Both reject the idea of pandering; the best comedy comes from entertaining oneself and one’s peers.

---

3. Transition to Politics & Political Life

• Calling to Politics (64:58):

  • Franken’s move from entertainment to public service was catalyzed by the death of his friend, Senator Paul Wellstone, and spurred by a desire for integrity in politics.

  "He voted against [the Iraq war]... the next poll that came out had him up by seven. ...And then his plane went down..." (65:44, Al Franken)

  • Franken recounted the razor-thin margin of his Senate victory (he “clobbered” his opponent by 312 votes).

• Integrity & Motivation in Public Office (71:02):

  • Franken maintained that he never suffered from imposter syndrome because he knew why he was running: "I was doing it for all the right reasons."

  "I'm not sure that every politician goes into it for the same reasons." (71:40, Al Franken)

• Showbiz Skills in Politics (73:11):

  • They discuss political communication, the dangers of over-programming, and Trump’s rise due, in part, to his unscripted showmanship.

  "This is why Trump won... his rallies were incredibly entertaining to watch." (73:48, Al Franken)

---

4. Political Commentary & Partisanship

• Comedic Analysis of Trump & Populism (74:10):

  • Franken and Holmes riff on Trump’s showman tactics, his ease with riffing and slogans ("Build the wall" as his “Hot Pockets”), and the pliability of political language.

• Disillusionment, Tribes, and Policy (80:22-93:13):

  • They analyze how both the left and the right use populist anger, how labels shift (“millionaires and billionaires”), and the jam of consultant over-polishing.
  • Franken tells stories of interacting with constituents across the ideological spectrum and describes the importance of respecting and representing everyone, not just “your side.”

  "You just want to have... be in office and get the perks and have the power..." (86:17, Al Franken)

• Community, Tragedy, and Bipartisanship (96:57):

  • Franken remembers seeing communities come together in crises, illustrating everybody’s interest in helping neighbors over political posturing.

---

5. The Mystery of Life, Consciousness, and Meaning

• Mystical & Existential Reflections (101:39):
  • Pete asks Al about the meaning of life and what he believes happens when we die.
  • Franken: "I don't know. I don't know. I think this is a mystery."

  "I try to be spiritual... connect to something that tells me what's best for me and the people around me." (102:33, Al Franken)

  • Both muse on consciousness, meditation, and the paradox of the universe’s expanding, yet finite, nature (103:28–104:03).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On SNL’s Influence:

  "He's been genius the way he's done this... the people who have come through that show..." (47:30, Al Franken)

• On Comedy Motivation:

  "The only reason to do comedy is if you absolutely have to be." (27:44, Dana Carvey via Al Franken)

• On Political Courage:

  "Minnesotans respect a politician who votes his conscience." (65:59, Al Franken)

• On Maintaining Perspective in Politics:

  "You represent everybody and you meet everybody and I love that part of it." (96:57, Al Franken)

---

Notable Laughter Moments

• Funniest Times Laughed:

  "I had the literal feeling of my eyes may pop out of my head... when [Steve Martin] sends Eddie Murphy across the highway in 'Bowfinger,'... and when writing a book with Billy Kimball... someone submitting an idea goes, 'It writes itself.'" (105:57–107:04, Al Franken)

• Comedy Advice:

  "Try to figure out a process and be patient with yourself... it's a 10,000 hours thing." (64:44, Al Franken)

---

Recommended Listening Timestamps

• On being flexible and SNL origins: 11:09–16:00
• Life at SNL and the writing process: 32:00–36:00, 47:46–51:15
• Comedy as a calling: 28:04–32:00
• Transition to politics & Wellstone story: 64:58–67:18
• Political showmanship & Trump analysis: 73:11–75:33
• Legacy, bipartisanship, and compassion: 96:57–98:00
• Existential reflections & meaning of life: 101:39–105:06
• Hardest laughter memories: 105:40–108:19

---

Final Exchange & Tone

• The episode closes with warmth, mutual appreciation, and a bit of sign-off playfulness:

  Pete: “Would you close the show with the guest saying, ‘Keep it crispy’? ... I promise it’s not a political trap.” (109:25) Al: “Okay. Keep it crispy. Keep it crispy... Keep it crispy. Thank you very much.”

---

Summary

Al Franken's appearance on "You Made It Weird" is not just a comedy geek’s dream—it's a thoughtful, warm, and surprisingly moving meditation on what it means to serve, to create, and to keep laughing. The conversation is rich in history (from SNL's earliest days to U.S. Senate backrooms), insight, and laughs, offering both inside baseball for comedy fans and a candid look at the joys, and sorrows, of public life.

Transcript

[Al Franken]

You made it with. You made it with. You made it with. Oh, yeah, you made it weird. Yes, you did. You made it weird with Pete Holmes.

[Pete Holmes]

What's happening, weirdos? This is my chat with the comedy legend and the only former US Senator currently on tour, Al Franken. That's the name of his tour, by the way. Go to alfranken.com if you want to see the man legend live. He's so funny, so smart. He's so interesting. The only former U.S. senator currently on tour. Tour. Go to alfranken.com to get tickets today. Also maybe both go to peteholmes.com thank you to everybody that was in Toronto, Atlantic City and Boston. Those shows were awesome. Up next is Chicago for three nights at the Den for three shows. Go to peteholmes.com for that. It's gonna be so great to be back in Chicago, followed by San Franc, Portland, Seattle, Atlanta, Charlotte, and Washington, D.C. it's been awesome, awesome, awesome. I'm so pleased with this new hour. Hope to see some weirdos out on the road. It always means so much when you can make it. And also, and also, if you like this show, why not try a Pete's Pick? A Pete's Pick? You heard me right. A Pete's Pick. What's a Pete's Pick? I only do ads for things that I actually use and I actually love.

[Al Franken]

And I.

[Pete Holmes]

And there is no product that I actually use and actually love maybe more than Magic Mind. Magic Mind is not an energy drink. It is the world's first productivity drink. It has adaptogens, which help you cope with stress. It has nootropics, which helps your brain function at its optimum level. And it has just a little bit of caffeine from Matcha, which, by the way, I should say. And it tastes great. A lot of people don't like the taste of Matcha. It tastes great because it's sweetened with honey. It is incredible. It's designed to be taken in the morning with your coffee because the adaptogens are going to round the edge of that energy boost you get from the coffee. It's going to smooth it out. The nootropics and the adaptogens and the matcha help you get into that flow state. It doesn't make me wired. It gets me dialed in. Frankly, drinking coffee by itself or too much coffee, certainly my fists close up, I can't focus. I can't sit still. Magic mind is the opposite of that. It is creator aid. Like, instead of Gatorade, it's creator aid. It's wonderful if you do anything that involves your brain, if you're working in a creative field, if you're writing, if you're podcasting, if you're like me doing standup comedy. I travel with Magic Mind. Val and I are currently in New Mexico. I have it in my bag just so I can take it in the morning to feel fantastic. Gives me a mood elevation. It gets me dialed in and helps me get into the flow of my day, especially when I'm trying to do something creative. You get 30% more done on average. Five to seven hours is how long it lasts of 30% more productivity after you drink it. Try it for three to seven days for continuous use. It's even easier as you go. It builds on itself to get into that flow state and there's a money back guarantee any first purchase will be refunded, no questions asked if it doesn't meet your expectations. Plus, as if that wasn't enough, they're currently doing a 14 day of magic challenge. Try Magic Mind. Drink magic mind for 14 days and post on social about it. And for every 10,000 views that it gets, they'll donate $10 towards the reforestation of the Amazon rainforest. This is a cause very close to me. It should be close to all of us. The Amazon rainforest is like the lungs of our planet and it's absolute madness that we are chopping it down. So this is what we're doing to help every million views for the hashtag 14daysofmag will bring $1,000 donated by Magic Mind. So give it a try, post about it and save the rainforest. I mean, it doesn't really get any better than that. Help your creativity get into that flow state and help save the planet. And you can get a discount and show your support of the show. Go to www.magicmind.co weird and use promo code weird to get a limited 20% off your first order. That's MagicMind Co weird and promo code weird to get 20% off your first order and show your support of this show. Next up is our friends at ned. Ned are makers of the best full spectrum hemp collection. They have not just CBD and CBG oils, but these are specifically dialed in and designed. They're like the designer hemp oil people for example. In the morning. I like taking it in the morning. I take my Ned de stress. This is my ritual. A ritual is obviously you know this. It's a daily practice that helps you stay grounded. An intentional act to take a few minutes to reconnect and take Care of yourself, get present, think positive and connect to your North Star. And for me, it's all about de stressing so I can drop into my morning, drop into what it is I have to do without feeling overwhelmed. It's a natural path to stilling your waters and getting back to easier times. The blend is dominated, dominant, excuse me, in cbg, often referred to the mother of all cannabinoids and cbd. Both extracted from the world's purest full spectrum hemp and features a botanical infusion of ashwagandha, cardamom and cinnamon. So this is incredible for your body, incredible for your brain. I find it to be very mood elevating, rounding the edges of all my stress and getting me into that place where maybe I'm afraid literally of answering emails or sitting down to work on something I've been putting off. The de stress blend by NED is absolutely a secret weapon to naturally get over those feelings and get into my day and get productive at night. I also take another ritual, the NED sleep blend. So many people are taking pharmaceuticals at night to unwind. I love to do it with something natural and earth based and backed by science. It helps me relax, it helps me fall asleep faster and wake up feeling fantastic. With the NED sleep lens. So you see what I mean. It's not just hemp oil. These are mixed with other botanicals to help you get the most out of them. It is incredible. And they help me be. Obviously they help me with everything. They help me be a better parent because I'm better rested. They help me with so many things. Basically, I want you to try it. Show your support of the show, be a better parent, be a better worker and be a better you with a more focused, mild, gentle feeling that you get from these wonderful products. Be the best version of yourself and get 15% off Ned products. With promo code WEIRD, go to helloned.com weird or enter code weird at checkout. That's H-E-L-L-O-N-E-D.com weird to get 15% off. Thank you to Ned for sponsoring the show and offering our listeners a natural remedy for some of life's most common health issues. Last but not least, you can see me wearing it right now is my Apollo Neuro. Apollo Neuro is wearable tech. What does it do? It helps your body recover from stress. It's like a wearable hug that can help you relax, sleep, focus and be more productive. And uses touch therapy, vibrations into your nervous system that help you feel safe and in control. We're currently traveling. I had it on. Relax and unwind. The entire flight really helps my body not feel that like, oh God, I've been on a plane feeling that I get now that I'm 43 and as soon as I get off I put on rebuild and recover and helps my body acclimate to where I am and just not miss a beat. In my day, it's worn on the wrist or the ankle. The Apollo Neuro delivers gentle, soothing vibrations to train your nervous system to recover and rebalance after stress. If it did one of these things it would be incredible, but it does all of these things with the different settings, energy and wake up. It's like espresso, but you don't have to drink espresso. Social and open is often what I have it on when I'm recording. This podcast. Clear and focused has been clinically shown to help with symptoms of add, rebuild and recover. That's the setting for after I visit my parents. Meditation and mindfulness helps me drop into deeper and more helpful, productive, wonderful, life affirming meditation than I've ever had in my life. Relax and unwind. I put it on that at night. Helps me shake off the day and ease down. Power down Val and I call it the try to stay awake setting and sleep and renew. I literally wear this when I'm asleep. I charge it when I'm in the shower, I sleep with it and if I wake up in the middle of the night, hit the two buttons, rerun the program and it lulls me back to sleep. It actually trains the nervous system to cope with stress better over time. The more you use it, the better it works. And it was developed by a neuroscientist and a board certified psychiatrist, which means this is not found in a crystal shop next to a magic crystal ball. This is real science. They've been studying the impacts of chronic stress in humans for nearly 15 years. Apollo's effects on sleep, stress, cognitive performance and recovery have been proven in multiple clinical trials and real world studies. And you can get 10% off and show your support of the show by going to ApolloNeuro.com weird. That's a P-O-L-L-O-N-E-U-R-O.com weird. All right everybody, hope to see you out on the road. It would mean so much. Go to peteholmes.com for all of my tour tickets and in the meantime, enjoy the incredible Al Franken and go see him on the road. Alfranken.com all right, get into IT marketing. I mean, here it's. It's an old stand up bit I had about when people go, here we are talking about it. And it always bothered me when people would say, here we are talking about it. And I was like, that would only be true if we said, but here we are against our will, buying dozens of cases of liquid death water. You know what I mean? Although now I kind of disagree with the premise because. Yeah, we'll just start. Oh, and please sit as far back as you can. Put your feet on it. It's like a sleepover. It's the filthiest couch in the world. You're so welcome. Do it like an airplane.

[Al Franken]

That. Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Here, have another one.

[Al Franken]

This is.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, my God. I just threw a pillow and it went right behind you. There you are. Is that a half lotus you're doing?

[Al Franken]

It's weird. I always thought this was good, that I was flexible. And then I had a masseuse finally say, your ligaments are too loose. Jesus Christ. The one, the one thing I took proud. Some pride of regarding your body. Regarding my body?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Our bodies are shame. Shame spirals.

[Al Franken]

Yeah. I'm just going like, I'm short. I'm, you know, but I'm flexible.

[Pete Holmes]

I actually, I hate to. Yes, and your shame. But one of my first thoughts was I did think you were taller. I want. Do you get that all the time?

[Al Franken]

Yes. I. I hate that.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm sorry. Well, I hate that I'm being typical.

[Al Franken]

It rhymes in a funny story.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, we actually have to go to a break real quick. Yeah, in one second. This episode. Yes, please tell the story. Please tell the story.

[Al Franken]

So the first day I'm in the Senate, I do my.

[Pete Holmes]

The U.S. senate.

[Al Franken]

U.S. senate. So I get sworn in. United States Senate. So I get sworn in. Go back to my office, do some stuff there. Then I got votes and I'm sitting on the subway. There's subways between the Capitol and the different office buildings.

[Pete Holmes]

That's fun.

[Al Franken]

And sitting right across the little subways and sitting across people still peeing them. You.

[Pete Holmes]

Is it filthy?

[Al Franken]

Frowned upon? Depends. I've never seen anyone do it. Nor they keep good care of the subway.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, good.

[Al Franken]

In terms of that, is this the.

[Pete Holmes]

Subway that Kevin Spacey pushed his assistant? Remember in House of Cards he murders his assistant?

[Al Franken]

I didn't. No, I was not. I didn't.

[Pete Holmes]

You don't have to watch that. As a member of the subway.

[Al Franken]

No, no, but I don't think. Well, it's possible. It's possible.

[Pete Holmes]

Who knows?

[Al Franken]

You know, I'VE never seen that happen. So, anyway, so I'm going back for my first votes, and sitting across from me is Chuck Grassley from Iowa, and he's only 75 at the time.

[Pete Holmes]

Until.

[Al Franken]

75, he says. And he looks at me, and he's just staring at me and finally goes, oh, you look just like you look on tv.

[Pete Holmes]

Meaning I look like.

[Al Franken]

So I. I say to him, well, there's a reason for that.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, he just meant it quite literally.

[Al Franken]

He totally.

[Pete Holmes]

There you are.

[Al Franken]

Oh, you look just like you look on tv. And I said, well, there's a reason for that. But some people say that I'm shorter than I look on tv. Goes, oh, yeah? Well, guess what they say about me. I say, well, that you're taller. Then you look on tv. He goes, yeah, How'd you know that? I said, well, because you're taller than you look on tv. He goes, oh, yeah? Well, guess what else they say about me. That you're friendlier than you look on tv. Yeah. How'd you know that? I said, well, you know, it wouldn't hurt to smile every once in a while when you're on tv. Well, normally, what I'm talking about, pretty serious. So I say, well, you could smile at the beginning and then get. Be serious when you're talking about the serious stuff and then smile at the end. He goes, oh, that's a really good idea.

[Pete Holmes]

Doesn't Washington have. Why do we need former SNL star Al Franken to come into this man's.

[Al Franken]

Life to tell him this gives you some idea of the caliber of the people I'm working with, is what I'm saying.

[Pete Holmes]

Smile at the beginning.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, you're gonna. Yeah, well, normally when I'm talking. Well, you can smile at the beginning.

[Pete Holmes]

Why didn't.

[Al Franken]

Oh, that's really a good ide. I thought politics.

[Pete Holmes]

Please sip your liquid death mountain water here we are talking about it. Did you. Belgium. It's not. Oh, I see. I'm sorry.

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

No, there's what they're going for. Al Franken dies hilariously.

[Al Franken]

Well, my improv training. What can I say of which I had none.

[Pete Holmes]

Is that true?

[Al Franken]

No, I didn't. Tom Davis did.

[Pete Holmes]

Your writing partner.

[Al Franken]

My writing. But my. From high. It started in high school.

[Pete Holmes]

Your life partner?

[Al Franken]

Well, he. He's dead now, unfortunately.

[Pete Holmes]

Yikes.

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Old homes. They could have dug a little deeper in that research. Oh, no, I did know the name. And that. That was your writing partner?

[Al Franken]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We went to high school together. Okay. And then we were two of the original SNL writers.

[Pete Holmes]

Yep. And, yeah, making like 300 a week.

[Al Franken]

I believe that he did the research.

[Pete Holmes]

And watch this. We're at the beginning.

[Al Franken]

So that is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were hired as one apprentice writer, the two of us.

[Pete Holmes]

So you made very few bones.

[Al Franken]

We got there. The beginning. The first day of the show. First meeting of the show.

[Pete Holmes]

Really? I can't really.

[Al Franken]

July, right after July, 4th weekend 75. First guy we met at the elevator was Mike O'. Donohue. Great, brilliant, dark writer. And he says right away, he says to us, how much you guys getting paid? So we tell him, well, it's New York.

[Pete Holmes]

People talk about money more openly.

[Al Franken]

So he says, I spend that much money every week to shine my cat's shoes.

[Pete Holmes]

Not bad.

[Al Franken]

Pretty good.

[Pete Holmes]

Pretty good. I wonder.

[Al Franken]

And I go like, oh, this is going to be a great show. True.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm gonna ask you something, Al.

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I want your real opinion.

[Al Franken]

Sure.

[Pete Holmes]

You're a comedy man. Did he have the line ready because he knew it was little, or did he come up with it between.

[Al Franken]

Oh, no, no. 300, I'm sure.

[Pete Holmes]

Off the cuff.

[Al Franken]

I spend more to shine my cat's shoes was a line he had at the ready.

[Pete Holmes]

You think he had at the ready?

[Al Franken]

He had the ready.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, at the ready. Not that. Genius. Still, I. I did a roast one still.

[Al Franken]

It's a good line that he had at the ready. So there you go.

[Pete Holmes]

I did a roast where I wanted to make fun of my friend for being broke. I still feel bad about it. And I go, I won't say the guy's name. Mike Bridenstine. I'm just kidding. It wasn't Mike Bridenstine, but I. Let's say the guy's name was Mike. I go, mike, I have your rent on me. I thought that was funny. It's kind of mean.

[Al Franken]

That's good.

[Pete Holmes]

But it's like, it's so little because he's so broke.

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You get it.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Why am I explaining this to you?

[Al Franken]

Yeah, I do like.

[Pete Holmes]

I like.

[Al Franken]

I do like.

[Pete Holmes]

I have your rent on me.

[Al Franken]

No, my cat's shoes.

[Pete Holmes]

I mean, that's the winner. It's sort of hard to follow Mike o'.

[Al Franken]

Donohue. Anyway, so that was it. Yeah. Yeah. We.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, okay. I want to. I obviously am excited to talk to you. I actually had a stress dream about it for some reason. I had this dream. First of all, you were, like, Nordic, you know, when your dreams just get the cash complete. Yeah, that works.

[Al Franken]

There's that, you know. Sure. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Maybe that was it. Maybe my subconscious is a genius, but you were like.

[Al Franken]

Or just garden variety subconscious.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, like all of our subconscious would. Would make such a profound leap.

[Al Franken]

No, that's good, though.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm gonna go with genius. I don't know why you tried to ride my genius.

[Al Franken]

Genius.

[Pete Holmes]

Can't I have that? Can't I?

[Al Franken]

You have it. You have to police do an edit here. That's great. Wow. Oh, God.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm gonna skip the rest of the details for fear of mockery. Jk. I'm not afraid of mockery. But it was you on the podcast. Katie was there. Who was it? What's his name? I'm blanking on his name doesn't matter. There was another podcast host in the room with me, and I must be nervous about talking to you for all the things you've done, because I've never had like a stress dream about a guest. But there you were, Norik, and the guest, Ryan Sickler. It was Ryan Sickler, who's another comedian. He kept, like, farting into the mic and stuff. People kept interrupting.

[Al Franken]

It's gonna help me. That's my closer.

[Pete Holmes]

I guess it's more of an opener.

[Al Franken]

It is more of an opener. That's what I've been doing wrong. Crap.

[Pete Holmes]

Crap is the closer. Farting is the opener.

[Al Franken]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Everything I do I think of in a three act structure, but it must be because, you know, you.

[Al Franken]

I thought it was just everything is scatological.

[Pete Holmes]

Anything I can make scatological, I will sketch a sketch idea. Skittles. It's skittles. But they're little rabbit turds. You know how rabbit turds are sort of perfect? Little skittles.

[Al Franken]

That's brilliant.

[Pete Holmes]

You were gonna critique it. You may.

[Al Franken]

No, I wasn't. I just was wondering how to blow smoke up your ass on that joke and I kind of.

[Pete Holmes]

You didn't like Scaddles?

[Al Franken]

What?

[Pete Holmes]

You've heard it before.

[Al Franken]

No, it's good. It's fine.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm mad at you. I'm not mad at you, but really, I'm just trying to blow smoke up your ass and be like, we've never had a senator on. Is that true? They're so forgettable. Like that one on the subway and somebody who's had these two lives. So I'm excited to have you. And I don't want Ryan Sickler farting into the mic because podcasts can sort of be like. Some of them have turned into morning radio a little bit where it's like slide whistles and I hit a button and there's a toilet.

[Al Franken]

It's funny because I do a podcast.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, what's it called?

[Al Franken]

It's called the Al Franken Podcast.

[Pete Holmes]

Edit that out.

[Al Franken]

What?

[Pete Holmes]

Edit that out.

[Al Franken]

No, it'll be good because you're listening. No, it won't be my listener. I said your listeners.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay.

[Al Franken]

Jesus. All right.

[Pete Holmes]

I didn't know. I knew Minnesotans said weird things, but I didn't know they dropped the S on plurals.

[Al Franken]

Go back to the tape. Go back to the tape.

[Pete Holmes]

I'd love to have a replay.

[Al Franken]

What the hell was I saying? What was I saying?

[Pete Holmes]

You were saying you loved Skittles. The poop Skittles.

[Al Franken]

That is a fucking great joke.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I was saying we've never had a senator. Former senator, however you're supposed. You're a senator for forever. I'm always going to think of you as senator on the show and podcast.

[Al Franken]

Former senators.

[Pete Holmes]

Former senators.

[Al Franken]

Right now.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, I like senator better. But also that podcast sort of turn into morning radio and you're saying the Al Franken Podcast.

[Al Franken]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. What's weird about my podcast is that I do public, a lot of public policy. I do it once a week, so I don't do news of the day. But I, you know, I'm steeped in public policy and politics and stuff like that. But I also have comedians, so I just, I'm dropping one. I don't know timing of your dropping this, but this coming Sunday, it doesn't matter with Sarah Silverman and this is her second time on. And I've had, you know, like Conan and Letterman, but like this past few weeks, I had Paul Krugman, the Nobel Prize winning economist, as a New York Times column. And so. And I had Neil Katyal, who was former Solicitor general, who, if your listeners watch MSNBC or that kind of thing, he is on analyzing and, and I had him on talking. What Garland's options are. Merrick Garland's options are. And then I have, you know, Chris Rock. And so it's a little bifurcated, but. But I also, there's more humor in my, my podcast than in most public policy podcasts.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes, but you're even in your podcast, you're saying it reflects your life. You, you have your two major highways. Most people just have.

[Al Franken]

But I care about this. You know, I care about this. So. Yeah, you know.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, you're.

[Al Franken]

Oh, go ahead.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I'm gonna double my.

[Al Franken]

Well, you know, after. No, after George Floyd, I had Charles Ramsey, who was chief of police for Washington and Philadelphia, talk about police reform. That's the kind of thing I do. And then I'll have Dana Carvey.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. Who's quite easy to get. Dana's available.

[Al Franken]

Who's hilarious.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't know if we need to go that far.

[Al Franken]

Okay. Compare comedians.

[Pete Holmes]

Just kidding. He's one of the funniest people who's ever lived. And when he did this podcast. I'll never forget you. Were you tagging that? We were at the three and a half hour mark. Don't worry, we're not gonna go that long today. But Dana wouldn't stop until he closed. Like he wanted to close it on a big laugh. Like, I started to land the plane, and here I am with a legend, someone who really inspired me as a performer. And he was like, I don't know. I don't know if we've done enough. Like, we. Like he wanted to find another bit.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, Well, I had. The first time I had him on was right after H.W. died.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Al Franken]

So he had a kind of relationship with him because. Oh, wow. I mean, this is such a different time, different president. You know, I wrote a lot of those with meaning.

[Pete Holmes]

Alec Baldwin's not hanging out with Trump. Is that what you mean?

[Al Franken]

Well, there's a whole different thing. But we.

[Pete Holmes]

But he.

[Al Franken]

He did this hilarious HW Bush.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

But it was kind of gentle in an odd way, but hilarious. And by the way, it was so. His HW was so funny that Downey and I, Jim Downey, the famously brilliant writer from snl, did years and years on the show, and he and I wrote a lot of political stuff together. We would write these cold openings. It was like a crutch, because we could just. Okay, we can open the show with Dana at the. At the desk, you know?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

And we would have to tell them, between Dress and Air, you're getting too many laughs.

[Pete Holmes]

It's taking too long.

[Al Franken]

It's ruining. Not the length. It was the through line where the. The we would write things that meant something.

[Pete Holmes]

You were trying to get a message across.

[Al Franken]

Well, not a message, but at least tonight, you know, it'd be like, you know, this. The hypodermic needle was found right across the street from the White House in Lafayette Park. This vial of. Empty vial of crack on the White House lawn. This bag of cocaine three feet from my desk here in the Oval, you know, and so there'd be, like, a thing. And he would get so many laughs.

[Pete Holmes]

In between that you'd lose it.

[Al Franken]

That you'd kind of lose. And here's the brilliance of Dana. He knew exactly what he was doing and he did. He made the exact adjustment between dress and error, really. He could get a laugh on any, you know, that hand gesture he did over there, down that thing over there, and he could just. At will. At will. And I, I don't think I've ever told a performer in SNL ever, other than that. Stop getting so many laughs.

[Pete Holmes]

Wow. Like, rein it in, Carvey. You're ruining the flow.

[Al Franken]

Well, you're the through lines, you know?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, no, I understand. Yeah, yeah. No, I, I, I'm sort of someone that is that funny. When he didn't want to end, I took comfort in it because I went, it doesn't really matter. I always think of the story Oprah tells. She's interviewing Barack Obama, and at the end of the interview, they go to commercial and he leans over and he goes, was that okay? He wants to know if he did okay.

[Al Franken]

That's a good Obama.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, finally he's warming up to me. I mean, nobody told him how much of the show is just telling me that I'm valid and worthy.

[Al Franken]

It was a very good Obama.

[Pete Holmes]

But Dana Carvey, my Obama, famously, I've always said, he's my Obama. He also has that insecurity, meaning, like, I want to, I want to razzle dazzle at the end. And I took some comfort in that. You know what I mean? Like, doesn't matter how far you've gone, you still would like.

[Al Franken]

Or that's just being a professional comedian who's brilliant and great and has high standards. All of which is what makes you really good.

[Pete Holmes]

I hear you. But if there's anywhere you could skip, scoot away. And no one would ever bring it up. It's three and a half hours into this podcast.

[Al Franken]

But, you know, standards are. Dana once said to me, there's no reason to be a comedian unless you absolutely have to be.

[Pete Holmes]

That's good. That's true.

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And you must agree, I mean it.

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I hate to use the word. Well, there's no way to do this. This is real. Like, this is the first 10 years of podcasting. It was only this conversation. So I don't mind in 2022 going back to it, but did you feel called to comedy?

[Al Franken]

Yeah, basically. I was born in 1951. In 57, the Russians, the Soviets, put up Sputnik. We were. They had nuclear weapons. They were ahead of us in space. America was terrified. My parents sat me and my brother down. My brother's five years older than me, said, you boys are going to study math and science. So he can beat the Soviets. And I thought that was a lot of pressure to put on a six year old. But we studied math and science. He went to MIT and graduated with a degree in physics and became a photographer.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh boy, that's hilarious.

[Al Franken]

I went to Harvard. Notice during a period where it was a lot easier for white male to get into Harvard. That period was from the founding of the school.

[Pete Holmes]

You're filling out the application that says are you white male? And you check yes. It goes Skip to page 12. You're like, all right, other things.

[Al Franken]

And yeah, that period was from the founding school until last year. Yeah, it's easier for white male. So. And I became a comedian.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

And it's because I was majoring in, you know, second chemistry. And for. And I realized, jesus Christ, I can't do this. I don't want to do this career. And so I took a, I took like the psych psychology, this stupid test, Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory where you answer 500 or you put yes or no to 502 questions.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm picturing the kids in Stranger Things wearing the gowns in an underground bunker. But yeah, keep going.

[Al Franken]

Okay, so, and so the only question I remember was I have not had any black and tarry bowel movements. And the reason I know it's a Minnesota multifaceted is that I wrote a kind of a memoir a few years ago and I looked up Black and Tory that question and all the Google results were. That's the only question people remember from the Minnesota multiphasic thing.

[Pete Holmes]

Why would that have anything to do with your personality?

[Al Franken]

It's 502 questions. So it has one 500 seconds value. I don't know. I don't know. Oh well, I'll tell you why it doesn't. Because all the, all the Google things said the test was worthless, but the results that came back said be a comedian. No, it said one scientist. Bottom, just at the very bottom. Number one was camp counselor and number two was jazz musician. And I had never played an instrument.

[Pete Holmes]

Black and Tari is a great blues musician name though, if you want.

[Al Franken]

Black and tar in the bowel movements. I can't remember whether I answered yes or no, but I put camp counselor and jazz musician together and I said, oh, I just saying I should be a comedian.

[Pete Holmes]

I think you're absolutely right. And it's funny that we live in this time. I'd like to say that wasn't a racial joke. Black and Tory.

[Al Franken]

Yes, it was. No, it was funny. I've kind of looked in the black and tarry bell movements. And there's bad reasons to have them. Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

Is there a good reason to have a black. And maybe if you're sealing up a roof, you're doing some roof work, and you run out of materials, and you're like, hey, Franken.

[Al Franken]

What?

[Pete Holmes]

You answer, Arnold 502.

[Al Franken]

God damn, I wish I had a black Atari. Of all the times. Why does roof smell? Honey, it'll end. It'll be over.

[Pete Holmes]

There's no rain in here, though. Yeah, it smells like. But you're dry.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, that's what it is. So when it does rain, it'll smell like again, always.

[Pete Holmes]

I think you're absolutely right. Jazz musician and camp counselor is what a comedian is.

[Al Franken]

I guess so. But again, this is a worthless test. But I just. I wanted to be a comedian, so I said comedian. Right.

[Pete Holmes]

I hear you.

[Al Franken]

Yeah. Comedy.

[Pete Holmes]

I think you're right. I'm agreeing with you.

[Al Franken]

And I'd been doing it in high school with Tom. I've been doing it, you know, for a number of years. We. We were performing at a place called Dudley Riggs Brave New Workshop while we were still in high school, which is kind of a third city. It was like Second City, but in Minneapolis. Del Close co. You know, there. He. He came up from Chicago. Del Close famously was a guru in improv, and especially at Second City.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Al Franken]

But he came up to Minneapolis to train people.

[Pete Holmes]

Really?

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And you studied with him.

[Al Franken]

I did not. Tom did.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay. Oh, that's right. You have no improv training.

[Al Franken]

I have no improv training, but Tom's improv training was, you know, Julia Child bleeding to death. You know that sketch? Okay. Tom and I wrote that. Yeah. Ackroyd was Julia, and we were looking for clothes. Last joke. And when you do improv, you're. You're taught to look for objects. And Tom wrote the joke, which was, go the phone. Go to the dial 91 1, and then she throws it down. It's a prop phone. And then dies. And it's a prop phone. And Tom found that object because he did improv. Which is my way of saying that all your listeners, if you're interested in doing this, do improv.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, for sure. Absolutely. You know, it's funny only until I had done it many times I had a joke about Rachael Ray is so sunshiny on the show. I just want to see what she would do if she would cut herself. And then only years later did I go like, that's. That's Julia Child. That's. That sketch. You know what I mean? It's like Julia Child.

[Al Franken]

We saw her cut herself on. Tom and I were watching, like, the Today show for some reason, and she was on for before Thanksgiving and prepping, and she cut herself.

[Pete Holmes]

And how did she handle it?

[Al Franken]

Irl. Well, it wasn't gushing blood, I think, and I don't know, use a cheesecloth or something.

[Pete Holmes]

I can't remember what it was, but.

[Al Franken]

We went, okay, that's a sketch.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Al Franken]

Here's the funny thing about this. That. That. That thing. So we. That killed in dress, and we held it because the blood wasn't quite right. Quite right. And that's a special effect job. That's, you know, member of the crew. But Tom knew the piece so well that we just asked the special effects guy, can Tom do it? And it was an insecticide sprayer or something underneath there.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh. To work the.

[Al Franken]

Work the blood. And so the thing you see on YouTube, wherever you can see this thing of Julia Child bleeding death, Tom is under the counter.

[Pete Holmes]

He's timing. He's an art.

[Al Franken]

Timing the pressure.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. He's the heart.

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And he was the heart of that sketch.

[Al Franken]

You're not just a great comedian, you're a poet.

[Pete Holmes]

Now you're understanding the point of this podcast.

[Al Franken]

I apologize for not getting it until this minute.

[Pete Holmes]

Now you're in the zone. You're in the zone. Let me ask you. You're the only. We've had many, many SNL people on the show, but nobody going back to the beginning.

[Al Franken]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And what everybody says about it now is that it's not what it used to be. And when they say that, they mean it's not doing cocaine and staying up all night.

[Al Franken]

Well, I think they mean other stuff sometimes.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, tell me what you think they mean and tell me what it was like. I really couldn't be more interested.

[Al Franken]

Well, I mean, first of all, we had seven cast members. Now, when I look at the, you.

[Pete Holmes]

Know, they're still announcing them from Saturday, still going and featuring. Yeah, still happening.

[Al Franken]

Right. And there's like, 20 or 21. And. Yeah, that does a disservice, I think, to the. Those cast members.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, yeah.

[Al Franken]

And we had, like, 12 writers or something like that. And, you know, if there's a sketch and someone was a waiter, it was a writer.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

You know, we were more, you know, and we worked very.

[Pete Holmes]

Go back and watch, like, the waiters and the people eating the food. It's like, that's Will Forte. You know what I mean? Like, for some, like, the background people.

[Al Franken]

Yeah. And now it's like one of the featured players who doesn't get in the show other than saying, meg, hand you your menus? I mean, you know.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

And so I think that was a difference. And I think that as a cast member, you get. The more you do it, the. The more confident you get, the more relaxed you are. Oh, yeah. And I can't imagine what it's like for one of these featured players who gets on once every three weeks or something to have to be featured in something and the pressure they must feel.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

As opposed to you. Just when there were, you know, Jane, Lorraine and Gilda and Ackroyd and Blushy and Chevy and Garrett. And then when Chevy left, Billy, everybody had stuff in the show.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

And that, I think, qualitatively, is a difference. Is a difference. Qualitatively. All right.

[Pete Holmes]

By 4K, qualitatively. I'm just enjoying your vocab.

[Al Franken]

Okay. Qualitatively. I did. I did well on the SATs. That's why. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You went to Harvard. You know, I grew up in that area, so I.

[Al Franken]

In that what area?

[Pete Holmes]

I used to hang out in Harvard Square.

[Al Franken]

Oh, really?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, Very different.

[Al Franken]

But anyway, you don't have an accent.

[Pete Holmes]

My parents do. Big time.

[Al Franken]

They do. Really? What happened? How did you dodge that? Or.

[Pete Holmes]

My father actually worked really hard and got out of that Somerville and moved us to, as we like to say, hoity toity Lexington.

[Al Franken]

Ah, okay. Yeah, of course. There it goes.

[Pete Holmes]

And then you get the nice non regional.

[Al Franken]

And how old were you then?

[Pete Holmes]

I mean, my earliest memories are in that house. I mean, I kind of remember being in Melrose for a little bit, but then Lexington.

[Al Franken]

Okay, I see.

[Pete Holmes]

But my mother and I didn't. I didn't hear it in my mother, my father. But they really have it. My mom's from Southie.

[Al Franken]

Like, they have it. Sure, sure.

[Pete Holmes]

And my father.

[Al Franken]

My wife's from Maine, and so she has a Maine accent, which. Very different, but it has a certain.

[Pete Holmes]

It has its own charm.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, sure.

[Pete Holmes]

Tell me at the beginning, before snl. Now I feel like SNL sort of doing an impression of what it became like before. At a certain point, the die was cast. Right, but you were there before the.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, I mean, the format's the same damn format. It's the same format. Yeah, exactly. Well, actually, the first show was like, maybe you're too young for this. You remember Midnight Special?

[Pete Holmes]

Is that a midnight special?

[Al Franken]

Wolfman Jack on Friday nights hosted this show, which was music. It was like. But. And the. Our first show, we Had. I think Carlin did two monologues. Valerie Bromfield did a monologue. We had three music guests or something. Whoa. I mean, it was just very.

[Pete Holmes]

And there was no Live from New York, I believe.

[Al Franken]

I think there was really. Yeah. I want to feed your fingertips to the Wolverines. Wasn't that. I think it was.

[Pete Holmes]

And then I went Live from New York.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, it was Mike o' Donohue with Belushi.

[Pete Holmes]

Sounds like a Michael Donahue.

[Al Franken]

It was a very. He's teaching. Belushi is from some Eastern European country, and he's teaching him English. And one of the things here, I want to. I want to feed your fingertips to the Wolverines. And that was the. That was the first. That was the first thing on Saturday Night Live. And then o' Donoghue has a heart attack, and Belushi the immigrant thinks that that's what he's supposed to do, and he has a heart attack, and they're both dead. And Chevy came out and went live from New York on Saturday night.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, I don't know. I don't remember that. Maybe. Maybe I watched Mad tv. Maybe it was the premiere of Mad tv because they didn't say.

[Al Franken]

Or Fridays.

[Pete Holmes]

It might have been Fridays. Larry David's Fridays. Oh, my God, Fridays. So, okay, the format hasn't really changed other than that first episode, which had too many monologues. I'm just gonna say.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, it just was. We didn'. And then. Then I think the second show might have been, like, Paul Simon and Art Garfunkel reuniting or something. Wow. So that was different. I think the first show that looked like what the show became was Candice Bergen hosting, which was like the third show or something. And we started to get it. And, you know, the second season, the first show, second season, I. After the show's over, I go back up the 17th floor. The phone's ringing. I answer it, and some guy goes, well, the show's terrible. This is the end of the show, Saturday Night Dead. And I'm kind of like, that's been going on since then.

[Pete Holmes]

Wait, somebody just cold called you? It wasn't.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, just someone was mad, and it was actually a great show. I think Lily Tomlin, back when 411.

[Pete Holmes]

Was the Internet, you could just call information and go get me Saturday Night Live and they'd connect you for free.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, they called NBC. I don't know, but I. Why? Why? I answered the damn phone. I don't know. Hey, I answered. But I mean, that's what, like, people say that All. They've been saying that for the whole.

[Pete Holmes]

Since the third episode, Saturday night, I've done Saturday Dead. What was it? I. I mean, I.

[Al Franken]

There's always great stuff on the show and always terrible. What.

[Pete Holmes]

Is there something you would change about the format?

[Al Franken]

No. Why would you. Oh, yeah. This has worked for 46 years. Let's change it.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't know. That's interesting. I've heard good arguments made to make it an hour. I've heard. I mean, so much of it lives on YouTube now anyway.

[Al Franken]

I know. It's very, very different.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

Also they pre tape a lot. They do a lot more pre taping than we used to do.

[Pete Holmes]

And there's your chance for the nervous newcomers to shine, actually, is. Because now they're on the. In the streets.

[Al Franken]

Yeah. They do some great stuff. The pre tapes are. Some of them are amazingly, astoundingly good.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

And. But you lose something to me because it was a live show. We. Albert Brooks did a couple some films and we did stuff like that. But mainly it was people running around the studio doing costume changes in front of the audience. I mean, it was much. A little different feel to it.

[Pete Holmes]

Circusy.

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Exciting.

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I mean, how long would it take you to go to sleep after tape night?

[Al Franken]

I have to imagine it's ridiculous. Of course. The show ends at 1. The cast has to get out of their costumes and makeup. Then you go to a party and you get there, 1 31, 45. And then you're up till 3 or 4. And you're mainly just talking about the show.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. You know, and coming down. I have to imagine the juice.

[Al Franken]

Yeah. You're peaking at. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

You're supposed to peek when you do the show. Right.

[Pete Holmes]

The relief that the show went well. Or at least the relief that even if it didn't go well, it's over. I mean, I think there's a. Yeah.

[Al Franken]

I mean, if we did a really good show, we were very happy and if we did a shitty show, we were very down.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. What. What was it like when Paul Simon and Mark Carbuncle got back together? Well, you mentioned it and I'm just like, you were there for that. That's incredible.

[Al Franken]

They got back together again a few times. I mean, they've, you know, reunion concerts or stuff like that. I wasn't privy to whether. I can't remember if they shared a dressing room. I can't. I just. It seemed fine. It seemed fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Super fun.

[Al Franken]

Beautiful. It was beautiful.

[Pete Holmes]

When you think, what about like a Bridge.

[Al Franken]

Oh, isn't that beautiful song? God damn. Paul's good.

[Pete Holmes]

I know. And Art Garfunkel was beautiful.

[Al Franken]

Beautiful, beautiful voice.

[Pete Holmes]

No, he does have a beautiful voice. And he's great in that Jack Nicholson movie.

[Al Franken]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I'm talking about.

[Al Franken]

Carnal knowledge.

[Pete Holmes]

Carnal knowledge.

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I watched. I was like, art.

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I think it's the name.

[Al Franken]

Garfield. Garfield. It's rough.

[Pete Holmes]

You're in trouble. And Paul Simon just sounds like a folk star.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, I'm sure it was Simon Nonsky or something.

[Pete Holmes]

Of course it was. Or Garfunkel and Nonski. And then what happened? How did you eventually work your way into becoming a performer on the show?

[Al Franken]

Well, actually, Tom and I, you know, kind of not audition, but we did. Yeah, kind of auditioned for Lorne there, kind of.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, is this a different Lorne or was Lorne different back then?

[Al Franken]

Now?

[Pete Holmes]

He seems so, yeah.

[Al Franken]

This is 46 years ago.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I know, but was he still scary? I know his, you know, I.

[Al Franken]

Well, you know, we were. Had our first job and we're. Yeah, and it was scary, you know, and we had a six week contract.

[Pete Holmes]

That's a vote of confidence.

[Al Franken]

I know. We had a six week. I think it was six weeks came.

[Pete Holmes]

Stapled with a ticket back to Minnesota.

[Al Franken]

The day our option was up, I. I just kind of went, Lauren. And go, oh, Jesus. You know, and we had written actually some of the first commercial parodies and really we were doing fine. But I remember we'd write something and Lauren would read it and we'd come in and go like, is this the best thing you've ever written? And we go, no. And they go like, come back when it's the best thing you've ever written. And then after we did that like four or five times, we just went like, Jesus Christ. Of course you can't always write them.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Al Franken]

I go, okay. I don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

So did you just start saying yes?

[Al Franken]

No, we just. He stopped saying it at a certain point when we went like Lauren.

[Pete Holmes]

But even as I'm thinking, there's an iconic photo. It's Belushi and Aykroyd and Chevy and Lorne backstage in like a kitchen or something.

[Al Franken]

Oh, I think that might be at the White House or something.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, really? I remember Ackroyd's like looking at a carrot. It's clearly like he's looking for some prop to do a bit, but it's before the bits happening anyway. Lauren just looks like one of them. Like, you know, he's got dark hair, he's a young man. So what's interesting about that is this is the best thing you've ever written story is you kind of see the early stages of that Persona. You know, Lauren goes home and is more of a regular guy. But when it comes to corralling comedians, he's got.

[Al Franken]

I mean, what an achievement he's done. I mean, what a mammoth achievement this has been. This is 46 seasons, 47, whatever it is. And the people have come through that show. I mean, it's amazing.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

And the comedy that, I mean, it's just.

[Pete Holmes]

Do you think it benefits from having a withholding father kind of guy?

[Al Franken]

Whatever it is, you know? Yeah. He. He's been, you know, it's been genius the way he's done this.

[Pete Holmes]

But do you do better? I know I do. If there's someone. Like, I did a show with Judd, and I'll never forget one time I got a little tipsy with Judd. I know HBO series, and I accidentally called him daft. And I was like, well, that's. That's a little on the nose. You know what I mean? You know, when life is a little on the nose. Yeah.

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But I realized that's. That's actually good for me. One of the things that motivates me, and they don't have to be as high status as Jed, I would just like to impress somebody that's withhold, like just making me earn the affection or whatever it might be. Is that how you're wound? What drives you or what drove you back then?

[Al Franken]

Well, I think what drove me was just making ourselves laugh, you know, very.

[Pete Holmes]

Jack McBrayer of you. I just want to laugh.

[Al Franken]

Well, you know, I. I just received and didn't deserve the Ernie Kovacs award, which is part of the Dallas Video Fest. And, you know, Conan deserves it.

[Pete Holmes]

That way, you said.

[Al Franken]

I'm sure they've asked him. Yeah, I didn't deserve it, but I took it anyway. But I called Conan to get his thoughts on. On Kovacs, and he just said, well, the thing about when he looks at Ernie Kovac's stuff is that the best stuff was always the stuff where he was just having a gas and making himself laugh. And I think that was. That's what it is. That's what it is. The. The during COVID Conan said to me, because he couldn't go into the office. He just said, the reason I went in the comedy is to be in a room with funny people.

[Pete Holmes]

That's a good line.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, yeah. And he couldn't be. And that's the. And people ask me, what's your favorite memory from snl? And it really is just three in the morning, you know, Wednesday morning when the show got written. We had horrible work habits. And, you know, from. We didn't really start writing until, like, 10:00pm I mean, we were kicking around ideas. We're really writing and just rolling on the floor laughing at something when, you know, Dana said or, you know, Ackroyd or Gilda or Downey or, you know, Jack Handy or. I mean, I did 15 seasons there, so there's a million of these names.

[Pete Holmes]

Really? Say any name.

[Al Franken]

Yeah. Anyway, so.

[Pete Holmes]

But you just want to be with funny people laughing. I mean, that's.

[Al Franken]

That was sort of it. And I remember once a. A critic from. I think it was a Philadelphia Inquirer TV critic goes like, who do you write for? What's your. The audience? I think she was looking for a demographic or something. And I went, no, no, no, no. You don't understand.

[Pete Holmes]

You're just trying to get those laughs in the room.

[Al Franken]

We're making ourselves laugh.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

That's the only way I think you can write comedy, basically. I think. I think. Or good stuff. I think. I think.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I would agree with that. I mean, for what it's worth, I am interested in as cliche as it is. Actually, SNL made fun of this podcast once, which I obviously took as a great honor.

[Al Franken]

That's huge.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, it is huge. Yeah. That I'm always trying to get at, like, some of the psychology of it. Like, a lot of us are. And for me, it's definitely that I was trying to get. I lived in a house where no one was really listening to me or I didn't feel like I was getting listened to as much as I want. Yeah, there's a sadness to it. There was a lot of. There's more to it.

[Al Franken]

That's kind of the tears behind the cloud. The clown. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Take a good look at my face.

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So it stands to reason that I would want to get in a situation. My parents were also always arguing, so I wanted to diffuse arguments. This is, like, classic. This is like, right out of the card catalog, you know, pull it out. There's comedian, Stop the fight, Be heard. And I wanted that. That guttural, that physical confirmation that I had been heard. Not just. But I wanted to make you roll over with laughter. And I was like, I exist. I'm here.

[Al Franken]

They laugh at you.

[Pete Holmes]

They understand. My parents would laugh at me. Yeah, they were. They were charming with me. They weren't my Biggest fans. And. And they're. They're still not really sure what's happening. That's not to say they don't like it and they don't support me. They do, but they've come to my shows. I've said this before, and I can see them in the audience, and they're just.

[Al Franken]

They're just looking around, really.

[Pete Holmes]

They can't believe everyone's laughing.

[Al Franken]

Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

Not in a bad way. They just. They're not really hip.

[Al Franken]

Wow. They don't have the sensibilities that somehow you develop.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes, they would love it. Both of my parents would love it.

[Al Franken]

Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

If my mom went on stage and told a joke. In fact, if my mom makes a joke just like me earlier and you don't laugh, she'll go, that was a very funny. Say hahaha. Say very funny, mama. And she won't move on until you, like, tell her like you did jokingly to me, like, that was good. Thank you.

[Al Franken]

Oh, okay.

[Pete Holmes]

I'll give you an example. They just visited. My mom goes, well, that's a very pretty ceiling. And I just went, huh? And she went, usually you would say something in return about. I just said it was a pretty ceiling. And I was like, I don't know what's going on?

[Al Franken]

Is that. That's not.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, it's not really how she sounds. That's like my brother.

[Al Franken]

I think the person whose accent you're doing just died.

[Pete Holmes]

This accent no longer exists. What's Natasha?

[Al Franken]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, it's the queen.

[Al Franken]

It was a queen.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, I see. I thought you were just saying the last person that spoke that way just died.

[Al Franken]

Oh, I see, I see. Yeah, a curve foul.

[Pete Holmes]

But so you. You can't necessarily. And you don't have to identify anything other than a love of comedy for wanting to get into it, for the compulsion to do it, because there are some just funny people that work in sandwich shops. They laugh with their friends all day.

[Al Franken]

Oh, I was ambitious. I want, you know, that kind of stuff. But I thought I was at the right place. I mean, I was on, you know, we were just like, jesus Christ, look where we are.

[Pete Holmes]

You mean getting on snl? Yeah, but you had to. Really. Well, you didn't really know what it was. That's an interesting question. How did you find out what SNL was and that they were hiring?

[Al Franken]

I didn't. I didn't. Tom and I have been doing Stand up at the Comedy Store and William Morris agent Herb Carp.

[Pete Holmes]

I know Herb.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, Herb's cute. He came, he just said, why don't you come to my office? And he said, you guys are. I'm picking.

[Pete Holmes]

Smoking. He's smoking.

[Al Franken]

I don't. I don't think Herb was smoking. But anyway, he. Would you guys be interested in writing, like TV variety? And we said, yeah, but there's nothing on right now that we could write for. And basically it was Carson, who is a really great show, but we are not right for that. We couldn't. We're not Carson. Mighty Art Players writers. Yeah, and not monologue, you know, not that kind of monologue writing. And then there was Carol Burnett, which was a great show, but just generationally we were completely wrong for it. And there was Sonny and Cher, which was kind of crappy, was not very good. And so he said, well, why don't you write a package of material for a show you'd like to see and I like to write for. And we did. We wrote a newscast. We wrote a commercial parody. We wrote a sketch which was a parody of Sonny and Cher. And then we did a conceptual film and it was 14 pages long. And this is for people listening, for young people listening who want to write and submit packages material. It doesn't have to be 50 page. It can be the. You know, you can tell. People can tell after a page.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. And sometimes that's all they're going to.

[Al Franken]

Read is especially, of course, because you're going to go, okay, yeah, right.

[Pete Holmes]

So you wrote 14 pages. That 14 pages change your life and invented SNL question mark.

[Al Franken]

Well, it sounds like I'm claiming that. Go ahead. But Lauren, Lauren. We were the only writers Lauren hired that he. He did not meet.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, no meeting.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, we weren't.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, because you're in la.

[Al Franken]

We were in la, but I guess he had, you know, I mean, number of the people he had met before because he had been in LA, too. Remember, he did laugh, and then he did Lily Tomlin specials, I think, in la.

[Pete Holmes]

Do you remember anything from the packet?

[Al Franken]

Yeah, I remember the newscast was a newscast on the night of the day of World War iii. Tragedy, death, catastrophe. Highlight tonight's news after this message. And then there was a commercial parody. And then it was, well, today it happened. World War III. Let's see. Something about, you know, killing 120 million Russians and, you know, 1.7 billion Chinese. And now with the sports, Barney Johnson, or with the weather, temperature's up to 8,000 degrees. And that is so funny. In the Valley today. Or no, 8,000 degrees, 8,040 in the Valley. I think it was the local LA News cooling off tomorrow to an uninhabitable 450 degrees. Something like that. And that was sports Barney Johnson.

[Pete Holmes]

As soon as you name World War II. World War II, like a franchise you do. Since then we've been worrying about World War three.

[Al Franken]

Yeah. It hasn't happened yet.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right.

[Al Franken]

Fucking God.

[Pete Holmes]

And World War I wasn't called. It was called the Great War.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, I think it was now.

[Pete Holmes]

And then it was retroactively rebranded as.

[Al Franken]

World War I and World War 3 will be. So I wrote a sketch with Downey and some other people kicked in great jokes, but it was comedy killers. I don't know if it was like Jeopardy. And the categories were like the Kennedys, the Holocaust, like things you can't cancer, blah, blah. And Downey wrote this great joke which was the final Jeopardy. Final Jeff or final comedy killer Donna. And the category was the greatest comedy killer of all time. And none of the contestants got it right. And the answer was the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand.

[Pete Holmes]

Very specific.

[Al Franken]

Isn't that a fucking great joke?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yet I still recently, not this year, but before pre pan. I would be brought up after, like footage of cancer. Nothing wrong with footage of cancer patients. It's just not right to go. Ladies and gentlemen, the comedy silence of feed homes. Like, it's not like you'd think it would be the opposite actually. Like this for me.

[Al Franken]

You're saying you can't.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, you do a fundraiser or something and they show the video of all the good work that the fundraisers.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, Burn units. You don't want to do that for a burn unit.

[Pete Holmes]

It's true. That's exactly my point.

[Al Franken]

Oh boy. That's the worst.

[Pete Holmes]

Did you.

[Al Franken]

I've done it for.

[Pete Holmes]

And then ladies, Al Franken. Like you just want to say, like, just for the sake of everything. Like, it's not like sometimes I envy musicians. I feel like a musician could go out and play following a sad video. Like that would be okay. Unless you're like Jimmy Buffett or something. It's like, if you let me eat a colada.

[Al Franken]

Fuck you, man.

[Pete Holmes]

People are dying. Like, that's not gonna work.

[Al Franken]

Yeah. I think he has a couple go to's that he can do. Like, they're a little.

[Pete Holmes]

I actually think I just made a mistake. I don't think he sings. If you like pina coladas. I think that's someone else.

[Al Franken]

No, no. He does margaritas.

[Pete Holmes]

Margaritas.

[Al Franken]

But it's the same category of tropical drinks.

[Pete Holmes]

Anytime Sour mix and rum are getting in a blender. Jimmy Buffett's nearby. Okay, when we come back, we'll shift gears. We are going to go to a short break. We're going to come back and we'll talk about the second part of your career, which I'm still confused how that happened. I know you probably talked about it a lot, but we're going to talk about it, move into politics when we come back. Pardon the interruption, weirdos. This episode is brought to us by our friends at Raycon Wireless Earbuds. Lately I've been listening to a lot of father Greg Boyle's audiobooks on my iPhone and when I do, it's been an absolute pleasure. A lot because the books are incredible, obviously, but in huge part because when I do, I listen to them on my Raycon wireless earbuds. Raycon Everyday Earbuds look, feel and sound better than ever with optimized gel tips for a perfect in ear fit. These earbuds are so comfortable and they will not budge. Trust me. I often wear these earbuds when I'm on my treadmill, which means my body is moving quite a bit and they stay put and they sound fantastic. Raycons give you eight hours of playtime and a 32 hour battery life. Raycons are also priced just right. You get quality audio at half the price of other premium audio brands. It's no wonder. Raycon's everyday earbuds have over 50,000 five star reviews. They have three customizable sound profiles, earbud tap functions, noise isolation, everything you get in the super, super expensive ones. You get them in Raycon just as great. Feeling, sounding and looking amazing. I absolutely love them. They keep in place, they sound great and you don't have to spend an arm and a leg to get high, high, high quality audio. And you can show your support of this podcast. So go to buyraycon.com today and use code weirdo15 to get 15% off your Raycon order. That's code weirdo15@buyra y c o n.com to score 15% off buyraycon.com code weirdo15. You're listening to podcasts. You might as well do it in comfort with great audio quality and with all the functions that you could possibly dream of. Buy raycon.com and use promo code weirdo15. All right guys, back to the show. We're back. There's no time that passes for us.

[Al Franken]

I understand that. I understand how that works. I'm not stupid.

[Pete Holmes]

The guy that thinks everything is about him, I know how it works. Well, I actually, before we get into politics. I mean, pick a name. There's so many people that you worked with. Was there great comedy advice? All these people that you worked with, or a moment somebody telling you you're doing a good job, you're on the right track? I mean, pick a name from the litany of people that you worked with. Dan Aykroyd pulls you aside, gives you a cigarette and says, franken Beans. He called you Franken Beans, Right? You're gonna be okay or something?

[Al Franken]

No, I can't.

[Pete Holmes]

I. Well, we have more ads actually when we come back.

[Al Franken]

I'm trying to.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, what about a lesson that you.

[Al Franken]

Steve Martin once saw something. I did, I did the White House correspondence dinner, and he says something like, you should do that kind of thing. I mean, really? Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like you're in your element.

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Was that pre Senate or post?

[Al Franken]

Oh, no, no, no way. Pre.

[Pete Holmes]

Pre.

[Al Franken]

He didn't even mean that. He just meant, I think he was saying, you should do Weekend Update. And I didn't get it. So that's. Oh, well, that's fine.

[Pete Holmes]

What about comedy advice? You're watching how these different people work, like all the different strategies. What did you absorb from watching the different writing styles, performance styles?

[Al Franken]

All right, again, again, it's like, to me, it's like the only reason to do comedy is if you have to. And if you have to, you'll just do it. And don't worry about, you know, getting your. The worst thing you can do is get 20 minutes together, go to the Comedy Store or somewhere, and then just do that 20 minutes.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that's.

[Al Franken]

That's just right. Happen. Oh, it still happens. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's. Try to figure out a process and, and be patient with yourself. You know, it's a long slog, you know, it's a 10,000 hours thing, you know?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I'm not familiar with. I'm just kidding. I'm the one person that doesn't know that 10,000 hours. And then where. Do you remember the moment when you were like, I think I'm going to go for this. Like, I'm going to try and become a senator.

[Al Franken]

Oh, Senate. Yeah. I do remember the time I thought about doing it and Paul Wellstone was senator from Minnesota. He got elected in 92, an upset victory, and he was a great progressive senator and he's a friend of mine. And 2002, he was running for re election and he was in a dead heat with Norm Coleman and he had to vote in October on the Iraq war and he was going to vote against it. And a large majority of Minnesotans were for going to war. And Paul told me, this is probably going to be the end of my career, because he was in a neck and neck race and he voted against it. And the next poll that came out had him up by seven. Oh, wow.

[Pete Holmes]

It went the other way because.

[Al Franken]

It went the other way because Minnesotans respect a politician who votes his conscience. Then his plane went down, and with Paul and his wife and his daughter and three aides and two pilots died. And Coleman ended up winning the race. And three months after Norman Coleman got into office, he did a interview with Roll Call, which is a Capitol Hill newspaper. And he said, to be blunt, I'm a 99% improvement over Paul Wellstone. And I said, who the fuck is gonna beat this guy?

[Pete Holmes]

So that's very West Wing. I don't mean to make light of this person who died or anything, but when it gets personal like that, there's a West Wing moment where someone puts down Martin Sheen, someone who died. It's almost. It might have been inspired by this, for all I know. And he was like, well, guess what? Game on. Like, now it's personal sort of thing. But it lit a fire under you.

[Al Franken]

Yeah. And that's not a reason to run for the Senate, I guess. But I moved back to Minnesota and I. In 2006, I just campaigned for Democrats who were running in the state, and I found that crowds would turn out for me, and so I decided to go for it.

[Pete Holmes]

Because of comedy.

[Al Franken]

I think because of comedy. I also written these books like Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot and Other Observations, which was. I've written four number one New York Times bestsellers. Wow. Not to brag about my four. What do you pull down for this? Number one? Huh?

[Pete Holmes]

What do you pull down for those?

[Al Franken]

Those are there. It's. It's good. It's good. Lies and Lying Liars is the biggest. And that. That was about Fox, and Fox sued me. Oh, wow. Thank you. So my wife wanted to get a band, a marching band to go in front of Fox going, thank you. Thank you very much. Boom. Thank you very much. Nicest thing that any. I mean, it was amazing because it.

[Pete Holmes]

Put so much attention there, and everyone had to read.

[Al Franken]

Yeah. They were laughed out of court. They. They. The name, the title of the book was Lies and Lying Liars who Tell Them a Fair and Balanced look at the Right. And so they sued me for copyright or tried to stop the book from being published because of, quote, copyright infringement.

[Pete Holmes]

Fair and balanced.

[Al Franken]

Fair and Balanced. And the thing is, is that. That the case law is clear, that if you're. If the thing. If the title is something you're actually writing about, it's fine. So they were just laughed out of court. And. But O'Reilly was so mad at me for I had made. Made him really look bad at a book expo and that he insisted they sue. And it was.

[Pete Holmes]

It was an O'Reilly Sue. They had to do it to.

[Al Franken]

They had to do it to please him.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

And I'm Floyd Abrams, who was number one, you know, First Amendment lawyer in the country, took my case. He had done Pentagon Papers and all that kind of stuff. And he calls me up, he told me not to go to court, you know, for it. He said, we won. I said, floyd, a chimp could have won this. And later, there was a documentary made about the case. And he wrote and he was interviewed. He said, a monkey could have won this. And I call him up. I go. I didn't say monkey. I said chimp. And he said, what's the difference? I go, well, chimp is funny, monkey isn't. Chimp, chimp.

[Pete Holmes]

Even male chimp, which is a sponsor. It's funny. I'm just kidding. They're not a sponsor. Chimp is funnier. Also close.

[Al Franken]

And he testified once in front of the. I was on the Judiciary Committee, okay. I wasn't. I'm not a lawyer, but I played one in a sketch. That's what I like to say. And Floyd was testifying, and I just made him have to. I told that story. I made him.

[Pete Holmes]

You got it right. On the record.

[Al Franken]

I got it on the record. It's in the Congressional Record. He misquoted me.

[Pete Holmes]

So you decide to go for it for this beautiful reason. You get sued for your books that you made a lot of money for, then you run, and it was a very, very close race.

[Al Franken]

312 votes. I clobbered him. It was the narrowest clobbering in history.

[Pete Holmes]

You clobbered him by 312 votes? Yeah, roughly. An IHOP, like a full IHOP.

[Al Franken]

This recount. I actually won the recount in time to be seated with my colleagues, but the Republicans went to court and delayed me, like, six months. But when I got there, it was the 60th Democratic vote and 60th Democratic senator. So that's how we got the Affordable Care Act.

[Pete Holmes]

And did you. I don't care for that act. Did you? Just kidding. Did you?

[Al Franken]

Great fucking act. Thank God we got that damn thing. I'm glad.

[Pete Holmes]

Did you have any Imposter syndrome. I mean, people have imposter syndrome for less.

[Al Franken]

For some reason I didn't. And I think it was basically that I knew why I was doing it and it ceased to be, you know, revenge or something. But I knew I was doing it. I was doing it for all the right reasons.

[Pete Holmes]

It's similar to your very pure and to me, sometimes challenging just love of comedy. Like you just wanted to do comedy because you just want to laugh and you just want to do what makes you laugh and make people laugh. That's. That's a very pure intent.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, but I really kind of think that's any good comedian. That's.

[Pete Holmes]

That's what they're after.

[Al Franken]

That's right.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

And I'm not sure that every politician, when it goes into it for the same reasons.

[Pete Holmes]

I hear you.

[Al Franken]

I went in.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm challenged by that just because I know when I'm off axis, it's because I'm doing comedy because it makes me high. And when I'm on Access and feeling good and I'm in the flow and doing good work, to be honest, it's because I'm going on stage because I want to make everybody laugh, not for the feeling you get from making people laugh.

[Al Franken]

Does that make sense? I see, I see. That makes a lot of sense.

[Pete Holmes]

But when I. I'm with you, I got into this because I want to do what makes me laugh. But then it gets very tempting to get. It's the ring of power. Tolkien's ring of power. Now you're like, oh, this gets me, gets me off. Then that can become your new reason to do it. And my wife has to recalibrate me every once in a while. And she's like, okay, you didn't like it, but didn't you do your job? Didn't you make them laugh? Like, it's not really about you being like, I'm a golden boy, you know what I mean? Which clearly is my wound, not yours.

[Al Franken]

I'm sorry you have to live that way.

[Pete Holmes]

I did put that on you in a strange moment. And what a great response. So you got into it for the right reasons. Going back to what we were saying about being on the subway. Why don't more politicians, or maybe they do now because of social media, whatever. But there does seem to be a lack of performance, show business, basic public speaking stuff. Like, is that changing? Are people becoming slicker or more polished?

[Al Franken]

No, I mean, I, I think if anything, people are just too programmed to consultant driven. And there is a certain sameness. You Know, and I mean, this is why Trump won for, because he had that, that entertainment. Yeah. And he, you know, he was running. Remember when he ran the primaries in 16, all the other guys were. There was a number of reasons. First of all, Trump's rallies were incredibly entertaining to watch.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Al Franken]

So CNN would just cut to them.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Al Franken]

And so NBC, because how could you take your eyes off this thing? And, and he, you know, in the podcast that did with Sarah, we were talking about how he was like a stand up and he could riff.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, Chappelle had that line. Sorry to interrupt.

[Al Franken]

He did.

[Pete Holmes]

Remember, he called Covid. I'm not endorsing this joke. I'm saying it like Trump, I do not like this joke. It's a terrible joke. But he called Covid Kung flu. And Chappelle's joke about that was, why is he saying that? I'm supposed to be saying that. And that is sort of to your point, like, what is this? Like, what's happening?

[Al Franken]

Well, he was like riffing and whatever, and he could do that. And none of these other guys could do anything like that. And all their, if you see a debate, he would just insult them and they would do these talking points that were exactly what you're talking about, which is just, you can't listen to them really, at a certain point, especially when there's like 10 people in a debate and they each get a minute and they each.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right.

[Al Franken]

Given a minute routine answer by a consultant and they've memorized it and they rattle it off and, you know, and he would just make fun of them, you know, and he would call them, you know, low energy Jeb or.

[Pete Holmes]

Right, right.

[Al Franken]

Little Marco and all that shit.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Al Franken]

And people would go, wow, I like that.

[Pete Holmes]

Crooked Hillary is pretty easy to remember.

[Al Franken]

Yeah. And again, I just think that, you know, build the wall and make in Mexico pay for was his Hot Pockets.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, his Gaffigan Hot Pockets.

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It was his closer.

[Al Franken]

He just, he just said it. And the response he got, I'm not sure. It was not a public policy that he had thought through.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

And of course he said Mexico pay for it. Right. It didn't matter. And so that's why he won because he didn't talk like everybody else. He reminded me it's a lot a part of it. And also he tapped into the deep resentment people have and that a lot.

[Pete Holmes]

Of people haven't heard the disillusionment and all that.

[Al Franken]

Well, they're, you know, certain point people started getting really pissed off that their kids aren't doing better than they did.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Al Franken]

Which had kind of been the promise that we had had since, you know, the end of the World War II.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. What is. I know this is a big thing to put on you, but we're just two guys talking.

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Is the answer. Do we need a flat like, okay, Roy Wood Jr. Talk about. Other comedians has a joke about, like, you can't beat crazy with sane. You have to. The only way to be crazy is crazier.

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That's why he liked Bernie. Bernie was just kind of liberal. Crazy enough to be like, we're going to.

[Al Franken]

Well, he was very, very passionate.

[Pete Holmes]

But he's also gonna give everybody health care and college is gonna be free. Like, that's sort of like this country.

[Al Franken]

Is run by the millionaires and the billionaires. And then in 2019, it turns out that he's a millionaire.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, I don't.

[Al Franken]

He had to change his stump speech and he had the toughest time doing it.

[Pete Holmes]

Was that a problem?

[Al Franken]

Well, he came by it honestly. He had written some best selling books. Not number one New York Times bestselling.

[Pete Holmes]

Books like me, which, by the way, makes you a millionaire. So what's the problem?

[Al Franken]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, okay, cut. No, okay, you don't have to cut that out.

[Pete Holmes]

I wasn't trying to. Shots fired.

[Al Franken]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Pete Holmes]

What I'm saying is I was sitting here assuming Bernie Sanders was a millionaire. He's been in, you know, show business.

[Al Franken]

Public office for a long time. No, you don't get. Believe me, you don't. The salary for a senator is. I don't know exactly what it is right now. It's about $200,000. And, you know, you have to have two residences. You know, some, some of the senators have their spouse be a lobbyist. I mean, there's other ways for them to make money, but if you're. No, they're my colleagues. Don't. You know, didn't.

[Pete Holmes]

That's interesting.

[Al Franken]

Didn't have a lot of money.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, I might be a dingus, but I just was like anybody that's that recognizable. Must be making a lot doing public speaking.

[Al Franken]

No, we can't do public speaking. You can't get paid to publicly speak. No, they used to do that. They stopped doing that.

[Pete Holmes]

I didn't know that.

[Al Franken]

For good reason. Reason. Yeah, but you can write a book.

[Pete Holmes]

You can write a book.

[Al Franken]

Yeah. So Bernie had written these books.

[Pete Holmes]

Is that how he did it?

[Al Franken]

Yeah, that's how he did it.

[Pete Holmes]

So what's. What's the big deal?

[Al Franken]

No big deal. But anyway, the point was all this thing was the, this country is run by the millionaires and the billionaires because politicians rely on millionaires and billionaires for the donation. And then he had to start saying like this country is run by the billionaires and multi billionaires. And then he had a heart attack doing it. Remember he had a heart attack in 2019.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, it's hard to shift gears on the freeway. That's very interesting. I don't know. He's still not the 1%. I don't know why I'm getting hung up on this. It's like, can't you still be against the unfair disbursement of wealth and be a millionaire?

[Al Franken]

Of course. And again, he came by it honestly and he's. But he also would want himself to be taxed.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Al Franken]

Fairly.

[Pete Holmes]

He's going against his best interest.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, yeah. Which is a new surprise. Surprise. A lot of people don't. I mean, a lot of people, yeah, this is the Republican Party. I mean, Republican Party, which is so weird because they are always, you know, tapping into the resentment of people who live in red areas where things aren't, the economy isn't doing well and people are, you know, saying my kids aren't going to do better than me. And they're, they resent the elites. Right. There's reasons to resent elites. There's, you know, elites can be self serving certainly in Washington. But that's the odd part about it is, is that they're trying to tap into that. But the Republican Party is doing the, the acting, the will of the very, of the Koch brothers, of the, the very wealthy.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Al Franken]

And they're, they cut taxes on the wealthy. That's what Trump did Right. After running, you know, supposedly for working people.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Al Franken]

And so no, but Bernie, yeah, he came by and honestly wrote these books, but he would tax himself at a much higher rate.

[Pete Holmes]

And so going back to my Roy.

[Al Franken]

Wood Jr. And people should be able to make money. People should be able to. I once I had this idea for Bernie Sanders, everyone I would, I would preside. You know, you preside when you're in the majority, you preside Senate and you call on. And every once in a while I just daydream and I thought of if Bernie Sanders had a right wing identical twin, a crazy right wing identical twin. And so it'd be like chair recognizes the senator from Vermont. Is my party going crazy? What creates jobs are entrepreneurs who risk the capital and take chances and create jobs for hard work in America. And sir, excuse me, are you not Actually, Senator Sanders. But his crazy right wing identical twin. Yes, I am. Well, I'm afraid, sir, I'm gonna have to ask the sergeant of arms to have you removed. That's all right. But I'll be back because they can't tell us apart.

[Pete Holmes]

So that Cerny Banders, huh? Cerny Banders.

[Al Franken]

Arnie. Arnie Sanders.

[Pete Holmes]

Arnie Sanders.

[Al Franken]

I did say I'll be back. Yeah, I'll be back. They can't tell us apart. And.

[Pete Holmes]

Fantastic. My Original Roy Wood Jr. Question, though is, do we need. There's a lot of threads to go down here.

[Al Franken]

You're in charge.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I know I have to pick which one's more interesting and I'm going to forget the other one. But. But do we need more crazy to fight crazy? Like, do you. Do we need Tom Hanks to come.

[Al Franken]

Out and Hanks is hardly crazy.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I know, but do you need.

[Al Franken]

Tom Hanks to be crazy?

[Pete Holmes]

No, no, no. Do we need a huge famous. Like when I say crazy, I mean splashy, loud, Oprah, Tom Hanks, Tom Cruise, somebody that can go in and remember.

[Al Franken]

The last guy I won was Joe Biden.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, but that was the anybody but Trump year.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, and the next one, unfortunately, may be the anybody but Trump year too.

[Pete Holmes]

Right?

[Al Franken]

I mean, we're on a really odd edge here where he could be indicted for, you know, keeping these top secret documents at his resort or for, you know, all the tax shit he did in New York or that's a legal suit, but believe me, the Manhattan prosecutor is going to be looking at that. Or for what, you know, the Raffensberger call. All I need is 11,780 votes and you'll be in trouble if you don't do that. And then of course, for January 6th and the clear. He knew, you know, he'd been told he lost. He knew he lost. And the fake electors and putting pressure. I mean, and then on the one hand we're there, that's there. And on the other hand, oh, it's not. You know, we always counted him out. We counted him out millions of times. And we're at like a precipice here. Feels like.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, it does seem to be the age of nothing matters. Like I feel like any.

[Al Franken]

It's amazing what didn't matter with him.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. And it reminds me, I've said this before, but I want to say it to you and like it has drunk dad energy. You know what I mean? It's like the family member that keeps crashing his car, driving drunk or burned down the schoolhouse. And like, for some reason, that, like that dad thing.

[Al Franken]

Codependency kind of dynamic there, which is, you know, alcoholic dad is crazy. But I'm. I just. If he's in a good mood, that's good.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right.

[Al Franken]

If he's in a bad mood, I'm. I'm. I'm afraid.

[Pete Holmes]

Keep him in a good mood.

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And maybe we'll get what he.

[Al Franken]

Yeah. And also, what also really happened was my former Republican colleagues caved, every one of them. And they saw what happened. If you didn't. Jeff Flake from Arizona.

[Pete Holmes]

What's in the name right there. He's gonna.

[Al Franken]

He's gonna.

[Pete Holmes]

Flake's not gonna let you. Not let you down. His name's Flake.

[Al Franken]

Oh, I see. Skittles puns to me are the highest.

[Pete Holmes]

The highest.

[Al Franken]

Katie laughed form comedy. Because he's a flake, you see? Oh, no. Anyway, I'm sorry. I was kind of a serious point.

[Pete Holmes]

They went the wrong way.

[Al Franken]

Well, they just all caved in. And, you know, I have former Republican colleagues who I talk to and I go, like, why won't you acknowledge publicly that the election was not stolen? And basically it's because they'll lose their primary.

[Pete Holmes]

Wow.

[Al Franken]

And you'll get someone crazier than me. And I say the key word is crazier.

[Pete Holmes]

This is the opposite of the man who voted against the Iraq war.

[Al Franken]

Yeah. Before he passed.

[Pete Holmes]

Which, by the way, Wilson. Wilson. Forgive me that. What a lesson in legacy. You know what I mean? Like, we're so short sighted.

[Al Franken]

We. They don't care.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

They don't care about their legacy.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

I don't care. That's.

[Pete Holmes]

That's.

[Al Franken]

That's the interesting thing.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

That I've discovered that they don't care. Just want to have. Be in office and get the perks and have the power or, you know, more, you know, Lindsey Graham, who, by the way, is the funniest senator now.

[Pete Holmes]

Sort of like being the sexiest librarian, though.

[Al Franken]

It kind of is. But I believe a librarian in music videos in. In the. In the Music man was kind of good.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, a looker.

[Al Franken]

It was a looker.

[Pete Holmes]

There's something sexy about being shushed. I'm gonna say it.

[Al Franken]

Yeah, I like that.

[Pete Holmes]

I won you back.

[Al Franken]

Finally. Wow. Long period there. Anyway. What was I talking about? Anyway, yeah, they like Lindsay just, you know, he said that he was a pathological liar and xenophobe.

[Pete Holmes]

You're talking about caring. Not caring about your legacy. Just wanted. Yeah, yeah.

[Al Franken]

I mean, and he did. He completely 180. You know, he's in a 180.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

On Trump. Because it was. And he wanted to be part of. He wanted to be a player and he wanted to keep his Senate seat in South Carolina. You had to be a Trump supporter to keep your Senate seat.

[Pete Holmes]

Frightening. Frightening. Here's another one more political question, then we'll get to the meaning of life, if that's okay with you.

[Al Franken]

Okay. It's not. No one's going to be helped by asking me that question, by your outlook.

[Pete Holmes]

On the meaning of life.

[Al Franken]

Because I, I don't know if I have a profound.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, you don't need a profound one. We'll just be two guys talking.

[Al Franken]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Which I think is a good thing to do just in itself, whether or not we figure it out, which we won't. So let's just let take that onus off of ourselves. Do you think we'll figure out big things, gun control, the environment. Are you optimistic or do you just. So many people I talk to are just like, we're fine.

[Al Franken]

I think we made some progress on gun control. Tell me after Evaldi, people, I mean, they actually did a bipartisan bill completely, not enough, but made it harder for someone to get an assault weapon if they've had some kind of mental health red flag laws where someone can call in and say, this guy shouldn't have a gun. And I did a podcast with one of the parents from Sandy Hook who has started this thing called Sandy Hook Promise, and she was involved in the negotiations. It was a bipartisan deal. Some good things in it. Some focus on mental health. But yeah, we're, I mean, there's no reason to have assault weapons. There's just no reason to have assault weapons. And you know, people, you know, people say, oh, we go hunting with them. Well, you don't really need assault weapon to go hunting. People did shoot deer before there were assault weapons.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Al Franken]

And you know, they, there's got to be a limit to. So. But there's some progress. And people are fed up. People are fed up.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

And again, though, it's, it's, it, it's still Republicans in states, you know, like Texas and stuff like that will not go there.

[Pete Holmes]

Isn't it not. And you're really talking to a rube here. But like, it's.

[Al Franken]

I know.

[Pete Holmes]

Katie's first Katie. Choke take.

[Al Franken]

That was a choke take.

[Pete Holmes]

That was great. I mean, doesn't it. It seems pretty obvious to me that it's not really about guns. Right. All of this to me is tied up in psychology. And parents and your father told you that Liberty was having this. I used to have a joke where I was like, I think the way they feel about guns is the way that East Coast, west coast elites feel about their cell phones. You know what I mean? Like. No.

[Al Franken]

Well, everybody feels about their cell phone.

[Pete Holmes]

Exactly. That's for sure.

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But that's how I can relate. But, like, it's not about needing a gun to shoot a deer. It's about that feeling of no one tells me what to do.

[Al Franken]

Yep.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. It's. And that gets mixed in with Liberty, personal freedom and all that sort of stuff. So. Oh.

[Al Franken]

I mean, there's a surprising percentage of people believe we need these weapons. And so in case they got down the government, they can fight the government back.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Which. But even that. Whenever I hear any of these excuses, I just hear. And I'm not even trying to put them down, like an alcoholic saying, like, I just like drinking at a ball game. You know what I mean? It's just like. No, really, it's about alcohol, which your tie to it is emotional and murky, and it's like, we need Freud to get in here. It's been conflated.

[Al Franken]

You know, it's so funny. I. Last night I went to a Rosh Hashanah dinner, and this is all. Anyone. I mean, this is what we talk about is this divide.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Al Franken]

And the source of it and when it started and how it's gotten so bad. And it's a. It's sort of the. The overriding conversation that in, you know, people who care about this stuff have. And how do we move from where we are to somehow moving back to where this wasn't like this. So at least so bad. It's always existed. Some of this. A lot of this stuff always has, but it. And. And I do think that there are a lot of factors, social media, where people get their information. I think it has. It has to do with a lot.

[Pete Holmes]

A lot of. You even said Texas. It's like, if you want to be a. Belong to a tribe. I don't even know if it's all of Texas, but you want to belong to a tribe, you feel this way. And again, that's why I'm always going like, it's your dad. Someone's saying, like, I'm going to control. I'm going to tell you your dead dad is wrong, or I'm gonna. You know what I mean?

[Al Franken]

I think so.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm saying it's way more personal. Anybody would see.

[Al Franken]

Oh, it's all. I mean, but again, you can tell. It depends what community you live in, where you're getting your information. So it isn't necessarily. And what's interesting is, you know, I talk about cruise in my show and I have a whole Ted Cruz section.

[Pete Holmes]

Cruise control. Okay, now we like buttons.

[Al Franken]

No.

[Pete Holmes]

No, still no.

[Al Franken]

No was a bad. Ooh. Anyway.

[Pete Holmes]

It was fun.

[Al Franken]

It was a neutral.

[Pete Holmes]

You're an open book and I like it.

[Al Franken]

Yes. Okay, where was I before the.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, so before that terrible pun.

[Al Franken]

No, I mean. And one of the things I talk about is, remember Cancun? And he. Texas is frozen over and he takes a four day vacation, or he's going to take a four day vacation. He gets caught in the airport. Someone videotapes him with a roller bag. And then he's photographed on the plane. He lands and the staff calls him, we got trouble. And then he lies. He says, I just going for, I just dropped the girls off, coming right back to hell. And he wasn't. He had actually been on a group chat and asked other families to join them for a four day vacation in Cancun at the Ritz Carlton. And normally when you invite people to have a vacation with you, they're friends. And usually friends don't immediately go to the New York Times.

[Pete Holmes]

Right?

[Al Franken]

That's right. And text them the text anyway. But Ben Shapiro is this right wing. A guy, the big right wing guy said, well, what could he do anyway if he went back? And there's plenty you could do. You're one of only two federal statewide elected officials. You have a big staff, you're in touch with fema, the Federal Emergency Management Agency. You do stuff, there's stuff you can do. But one of the things is you can do is learn a lot about people. And I saw people who I have no in areas that I know were Trump areas where there was a flood. And you see people step up. And I remember this one couple, this is, it was 96 degrees, it was a community south of Duluth. And just this flood. And this family, these two couple, they're in their 40s, I'd say lost their, their house because the foundation crumbled. And I was talking to them, they're sweating, it's 96 out. And saying like, well, you know, we were thinking of moving to Missouri because we have family there. But you know what, these kids, these teenagers came and spent the entire weekend hauling the stuff or stuff that was that ruined to the dumpsters. And we decided this is our community. And you go like, you know what? They're good people. On both sides. And we just got to find a way to tap into that. But that's what you see. You see people step up, churches putting people up. You see other people putting other people up who lost their home. You see all kinds of amazing things. And, and when you're a senator, you represent the whole state. You know, you represent everybody and you meet everybody. And I love that, I love that part of it.

[Pete Holmes]

So did it increase your compassion and understanding?

[Al Franken]

It increased my understanding tremendously of people and of, you know, again of how, you know, people are great, can be just great.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, it's funny. Individuals are, It's a, it's a gift to be able to meet individuals, you know, spend time with people instead of masses.

[Al Franken]

You know, masses are difficult and in a situation, that's why, you know, what can you do anyway? You can also tell people this is how you keep track of what you've lost. And so you can get. This is a federal disaster. You're going to get reimbursed for this stuff, but you got to keep records of. And that gives them hope. Yeah, you know, I mean, there's stuff you can do on all different kinds of levels. Yeah, there's a water treatment plant that lost its in, in Texas. They lost all their power. But you could get it, you could get FEMA to get a diesel generator there to clean so they could go back to making clean water because no one had clean water. Yeah, you can do shit.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Al Franken]

But you also learn a lot.

[Pete Holmes]

I love that, I love that. I, I feel free to say no as you have, but is there a memory you have of meeting people that clearly disagreed with you politically and saw you as a New York showbiz jerk face and then they loved you and they let you in?

[Al Franken]

They didn't see me as that. They're just some, the ones who didn't like me. Well, maybe some, but I've just, just kidding. Mainly it was, I just, you know, there. I remember going to a guy in, in way up northwest Minnesota who had a business which was making out outdoor furnaces or something, wood burning furnaces for the heat houses, and was very successful at doing that. And they had this big kind of warehouse. He had this big place and every, every room had Fox on every room just running on tap. If you walked in any room was Fox. And I was talking to him and he, he was creating jobs for people and he's creating a really good product. And, and at one point he, he, he was working on a mower. He was developing a new Mower and that swivel. 100, 360 degrees, you know, something like that. And I went, jesus Christ. And I go, what are you gonna do? You have a name for it? And he goes, no, I don't yet. And I go, well, what about the swivel? And he goes, fuck this fucking Democrat. Progressive Democrat. Just thought of a good name for my fucking brain.

[Pete Holmes]

There it is.

[Al Franken]

And I just like, laughed. And he knew why I was laughing, and then he laughed and same thing. There are two farm organizations. One, the Farmers Union, which is the progressive organization, and then there's the Farm Bureau. Okay? And Minnesota, one out of six jobs are tied to ag. So the Farm Bureau is much bigger and very conservative. But, you know, I represent Minnesota and there are certain issues that I voted with them on for both the Farmers Union and Farm Bureau. So one, like my second year there, I got this award from the Farm Bureau, from the conservatives. It was like the Friend of the Farmer plaque. So I'm with the head of the Farm Bureau, Kevin Papp. He's a farmer near Mankato, Minnesota, south central Minnesota. And so I'm getting a picture taken and I go, kevin, I can't tell you how much this means to me. He goes, it's just the way you voted. And I just went like, I laughed. And then he understood right away what he had just done and what he had said. And we became instant friends. And I just gave him shit about that for years. Years. And then he invited me to his farm to harvest the Franken 5. That was the last five acres of corn that were harvested. And. And you know, and he and I are just really good friends.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, I love that.

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

What great answers. All right. Meaning of life, meaning of lifetime dead over. You think it's. I'm just. With you, I'm jumping right to the end.

[Al Franken]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

When you die, lights up.

[Al Franken]

Oh. Oh, I don't know. I don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

Have you had any ghosty experiences? Any near death experiences?

[Al Franken]

Nope.

[Pete Holmes]

Any reason to think.

[Al Franken]

I don't know. I mean, I think this is a mystery. And I completely have no. I. I don't know. And I know that I think you have a soul. I think. And I think the fact that human beings exist is some kind of odd anomaly. And I don't know how this all started. I don't. I have a big I don't know on all of this. I really don't. I don't. I'm not religious at all. I try to be spiritual. I try.

[Pete Holmes]

What does that mean?

[Al Franken]

Mean, what does that mean. Yeah, means try to connect to something that tells me what's best for me and the people around me.

[Pete Holmes]

You mean ethics?

[Al Franken]

Like a higher power? Like a higher power, yeah. And I don't even know what it means, but I try to connect it. Sometimes if I meditate, I can get closer to that. But there's something. Maybe there's something, or maybe it's just fucking physics, you know, And I can't. You know, I keep wanting to go, like, how can the universe be finite? I still haven't figured that out. I got to talk to some astrophysicist, and he has to explain that, or she has to explain that to me.

[Pete Holmes]

Do they say it's finite? Yeah, I thought it was expanding.

[Al Franken]

It's expanding, but it's finite.

[Pete Holmes]

That sounds infinite. It's going to keep expanding forever and ever.

[Al Franken]

Well, I don't. That's a good question. But they say it's finite, so I'm going like, what? Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

This is a real lava lamp conversation. But it's like, what's on the other side of the expanding universe?

[Al Franken]

Lava lamp meaning when you smoke potatoes? Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But, you know, if.

[Al Franken]

Oh, man. You know, maybe, like, every atom is its own universe.

[Pete Holmes]

I mean, not bad.

[Al Franken]

That's a lava lamp.

[Pete Holmes]

You can. What it totally is. What I find more pressing and more experientially investigatable is does your consciousness, when you close your eyes, when you meditate, is there any border past which your consciousness doesn't exist? Like, in the same way that the universe is this endless seeming thing, so too, is your inner awareness your inner reality? And when. And you don't have to take my word for it, but when you're meditating, you go, like, where is this? Does it have a beginning? Does it have an end? Was the phenomenon of awareness, Was it boring? Does it die? Is it personal? These are interesting questions.

[Al Franken]

Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

What is it that's aware?

[Al Franken]

I think you meditate a lot better than I do.

[Pete Holmes]

No, what is it that's aware of? My experience is a good question, too. What is it that knows? You're looking at me and you know it. But what knows that?

[Al Franken]

Well, now I'm going to listen to this podcast. I want to figure out what you just said.

[Pete Holmes]

The final question, my dear friend, is we sort of touched on it at the beginning, the time you laughed the hardest in your life. Can you think of it? I know you said in the writers room, maybe there's a time with your.

[Al Franken]

There are two things I can think of right off the bat in Steve Martin's movie. What's the name of it? Well, it's the one with Eddie Murphy.

[Pete Holmes]

Bowfinger, Bow Finger.

[Al Franken]

When he sends Eddie Murphy across the highway, the freeway. I. My eyes almost popped out of my head, I was laughing so hard. And then there was one. And I had the literal feeling of my eyes may pop out of my head now I'm laughing so hard. And I had the same experience of that when I was writing, co writing a book with Billy Kimball, who's a brilliant writer. And we were working really hard on this book. And I went, we went to Canyon Ranch just to write. And we're writing, really, really writing. And he had been a consultant at Comedy Central at the time. And he just said, like, how sometimes they'll get submissions or something of an idea and that sometimes someone will say they'll just submit an idea and goes, it writes itself.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Al Franken]

And we had been working so hard and very productively and. But I just laugh so hard at that, how dumb that is, that my eyes almost popped out of my head. That's literally. If you ask me, that's the hardest year ever laughed. Those are the two times.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that's like, there are all those writers room folklore stories. And one of them is, it's always some unqualified writer in a room. And one of them was hanging with Mr. Cooper. And apparently someone who hadn't really pitched the whole season goes, it was quiet. And they go, cooper comes home, house burned down. Springboard. Like, that's them saying, it writes itself. Like, if the opening, its house burned down. It writes itself. Like, what's he gonna do? He's got no house. It also reminds me of, by the Netflix building on Sunset here. There's somebody, some beautiful soul put up a. I'm saying something nice. Put up a billboard that is like, netflix. Have you seen it? I have a spy thriller for you. It is a can't miss series.

[Al Franken]

Oh, Lord.

[Pete Holmes]

And like. And there's two of them. There's two billboards. And I was like, I always, because I'm an optimist, I always go, what if? It is incredible. Like, what if?

[Al Franken]

And what are the chances of that? Zero.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes, Absolute zero. Which is the name of the series. Absolutely. Well, Al, this was a, A real thrill. Like I said, I, I was nervous to do it and, and here I was. Nothing to be nervous about. I told you about my dream.

[Al Franken]

Oh, that's right.

[Pete Holmes]

I wasn't, like, actively nervous. I just, my unconscious was like, yeah, okay. You know, you're, you've done a lot in your life.

[Al Franken]

Well, I was. I was calm coming into this.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, I'm glad. I'm glad you were comfortable.

[Al Franken]

I was happy. I was excited, actually. I was excited.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, were you really?

[Al Franken]

No, but I was kind of looking forward to it.

[Pete Holmes]

You made me, Krasinski. That's when you look at the camera. No, I was.

[Al Franken]

I was very much looking forward to it.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that's very good, and I appreciate it. And you're a millionaire. Would you. Would you. We. We close the show with the guests saying, keep it crispy. It's just the catchphrase. I promise it's not a political trap.

[Al Franken]

Okay. Keep it crispy. Keep it crispy.

[Pete Holmes]

Keep it crispy. Thank you very much. That is a first that someone gave us four alts.

[Al Franken]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

600 plus episodes. First time.

[Al Franken]

Really?

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. Thank you.

[Al Franken]

There you go. There you go. That's the genius of the master.

[Pete Holmes]

Thank you.