Brian Jordan Alvarez

Summary

Podcast Summary

You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes

Guest: Brian Jordan Alvarez
Release Date: July 15, 2026

---

Episode Overview

This episode features comedian, actor, writer, and creator Brian Jordan Alvarez, best known for FX/Hulu’s “English Teacher.” Pete and Brian take a deep dive into the creative process behind the show, explore the peculiarities of friendship, relationship dynamics (including monogamy vs. openness), sobriety, body image, male vulnerability, and the meaning of authenticity in art, comedy, and life. True to the show’s premise, both host and guest candidly share their “secret weirdness,” resulting in a rich, self-aware, and very funny conversation.

---

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. “English Teacher” — Creating a Comedy with Heart and Authenticity

• [03:31] Pete gushes over “English Teacher,” citing its unique style and authentic voice.
  • “It’s just friends hanging out. That’s kind of a hard thing to do.” (Pete Holmes, 06:59)
• [05:11] Brian and Pete swap showrunner war stories:
  • Brian admits to sometimes mouthing other actors’ lines and doing “split screen” fixes—as Will Smith did on “Fresh Prince.”
  • The show's rhythm comes from “overlapping dialogue and real friendship crosstalk,” shot with cross-coverage to capture chaos.
• Philosophy of the show: The value of intentionality (“How do I make this scene even better right now?” – Brian, 21:00) and the pitfalls (years spent on S1, rushing S2).

2. Vibes over Plot, and the Myth of ‘Just People Hanging Out’

• [07:00] The team “violated” the old TV writing rule—“don’t just make shows about friends hanging out”—but their show thrived on it. Much of S1’s energy was built on years of focus, care, and careful world-building.
• [13:37] Colors, music, visual style were “extreme over-involved” (Brian, 19:37). Cites Almodóvar films as inspiration.
• The “pilot’s lack of classic conflict” was intentional: “It’s just these vibey relationships… the conflict gets solved off-camera.” (Pete & Brian, 19:05–19:13)
• [41:16] Paul Simms (co-writer) helped give the show just enough story “structure” to keep it compelling, but the vibe is the draw.

3. On Friendship & Emotional Boundaries

• [09:12] Discussion of male–female friendship boundaries, inspired by Pete’s “no lunch with women” rule. Brian compares it to gay dating dynamics and “practical” boundaries in monogamous relationships.
  • “But it’s not—your wife’s not saying, don’t do it. She’s saying, What’s wrong with you?” (Pete Holmes, 11:27)
• [10:49] Brian: “If we’re monogamous and I go to lunch with an available gay guy… it’s thoughts, everybody’s thoughts.”
• [11:56] The honest itch: “What’s hotter than a forbidden romance? It’s a setup.” (Pete Holmes, 12:19)

4. Autobiography in Comedy—and Real Flaws

• [14:11] Brian admits the “self-righteous, burdened, principled” aspects of his character Evan are part personal, part writing necessity—the perpetual-motion engine of sitcom pilot structure.
  • “Often he needs to be wrong.” (Brian, 16:02)
• [45:38] Conversation about making an “unlikable” but relatable lead—feeling left out, wanting to be invited but not to help, etc.

5. Artistic Vulnerability, Aging, and Relatability

• [74:55] Discussion about being “understatedly handsome”—good-looking enough to pass as both lead and sidekick, but not so hot that he’s unrelatable to comedy audiences.
  • “You wouldn’t be funny if you were better looking.” (Pete, 76:28)
• [78:38] Brian admits his “core friend group” is full of “nerds” and board-gamers; finds bars/raves unpleasant without substances.

6. Sobriety and Healthy Obsessions

• [82:21] Brian got sober at 22: “I could buy alcohol legally for one year before it was balls-to-the-wall, life-ending problem.” He now channels “pseudo-addictive personality” into fitness, routine, and creation.
  • “I work out every day… I need the routine.” (Brian, 83:30)

7. Open Relationships, Monogamy, and the Myth of Sexual Exclusivity

• [88:12–98:28] They discuss open gay relationships, cultural pressures, and how monogamy is its own “kink”:
  • “Why do we want [cheating] to mean, like, you don’t love the person you’re with?” (Pete, 89:28)
  • “The simplest dream is, in a married couple, you just go, we’re basically monogamous, but if there’s cheating, we’ll talk about it and it won’t destroy our lives.” (Brian, 90:05)
  • Monogamy: “The main pitch is, your relationship is a settled thing, then you can focus on the rest of your life.” (Brian, 93:29)
  • “If you stay in the thing, you’re in uncharted territory.” (Referencing Brad Pitt on long-term relationships; 98:28)

8. Male Vulnerability & Emotional Neediness

• [99:01] Pete admits: “I am petty and fragile in a way that is underreported.”
• [99:53] Brian: “The dream of being emotionally mature is you don’t have this burning need for someone else to complete you.”

9. Body Image, Fitness & Aging

• Joked about push-ups, body type, steroids (“I can now identify a steroid body!” – Brian, 72:30), and the relentless pressure for men (esp. gay men) to “keep it tight.”
• The mutual agreement that “what was cute in your 20s (not caring) becomes gross after 50.” (Pete, 115:13)
• “Men have the potential to be yeasty in a way no other group can.” (Pete, 115:14)

10. Faith, God, and Creative Purpose

• [123:13] Brian’s rapid-fire God segment:
  • Shares a story about friends who left religion but didn’t replace it—his own spirituality relies on an “unconscious faith that all of this is okay.”
  • “If everything happened right to get that show to happen… how could it be wrong that then it got cancelled after two? The same guiding principle is taking me to whatever’s next.” (Brian, 129:58)
• They quote Ram Dass: “Fame, shame, gain, loss, pleasure, pain—same.” (Pete, 131:06)

---

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On sitcom structure:

  “You’re trying to set up a perpetual motion machine.” (Brian, 15:32)

• Regarding topicality of the show:

  “We were kind of talking about horseshoe theory... once something becomes fully liberal, it becomes conservative again.” (Brian, 17:32)

• On performing and connection:

  “There’s something sex about doing standup. There’s something sex about performing.” (Pete, 94:22)

• About the open relationship proposal:

  “It’s gonna come up. It’s absurd to think you’re not gonna want to… For doing something that everyone on earth wants to do.” (Brian, 89:56)

• On authenticity and embarrassment in comedy:

  “You realize all the good stuff is the stuff you’re embarrassed by, right? That’s Lena [Dunham].” (Pete, 60:04)

• On aging and body pressure:

  “You’re keeping it tight. You’ll see a 70-year-old guy and you’re like, what the fuck? Did you see the 50-plus straights? Jesus Christ, Brian!” (Pete, 111:20)

• On artistic faith and acceptance:

  “If everything happened right to get that show made… how could it be wrong for it to be cancelled?” (Brian, 129:58)
  “Why are we only trusting it when it’s in our favor?” (Pete, 130:12)

---

Notable Segments (with Timestamps)

• 03:31: Pete and Brian gush over “English Teacher,” crafting Vs. living a role
• 05:11: Split screen and technical fixes
• 06:45: The emotional language of friendship in the show
• 19:37: Visual intentionality behind “English Teacher” (colors, design, Almodóvar)
• 27:05: Three times filming the cafeteria crosstalk scene
• 41:16: Show structure and writing partner Paul Simms’ influence
• 83:07: Brian’s sobriety story
• 88:12: Open vs. monogamous relationships
• 99:01: Men’s emotional neediness and friendship gaps
• 111:20: “Keeping it tight”—gay vs. straight standards and body image
• 123:13: Two-minute “God talk” on faith, universe, and creative purpose

---

Tone and Style

Playful, candid, and self-aware. Both guests tease, confess, and geek out in the best “You Made It Weird” tradition, openly analyzing their own doubts and weirdness with humor. Philosophical detours, TV and film references, sex jokes, and authentic moments abound. Pete and Brian both foreground vulnerability, framing it as vital for both comedy and real relationships.

---

For Listeners

Who would enjoy this episode?

• Fans of “English Teacher” or “Crashing”
• TV nerds and aspiring creators interested in “being in the room where it happens”
• Listeners interested in real friendship, queer narratives, modern relationships
• Anyone seeking a thoughtful (and very funny) discussion on sobriety, body image, aging, and faith without preachiness

Skip if:
You’re looking for interview “gotchas” or heavy drama. This episode is about the joys of being alive, even (especially) in the weird parts.

---

[End of Content]

(Ads, plugs, and credits removed as requested.)

Transcript

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Lemonade. You made it weird with Pete Holmes.

[Pete Holmes]

What's happening, weirdos? This is Brian Jordan Alvarez, the creator and star of one of me and Val's favorite shows that we've seen in recent years, English Teacher, which you can watch on FX or Hulu, I believe. It's so good. It's so good. And we ripped through it and then I reached out and here we are chatting with Brian Jordan Alvarez. So glad you're here. You might have also seen him in Megan, the one that has a three instead of an E. Is that Megan three? I don't know. 80 for Brady. He's very funny. He's wonderful. He's here. Glad you guys are here as well. Not much to plug up top. Thank you to everybody that came out to north and South Carolina. Thank you to everybody that came out to Sacramento, which were amazing shows. The show's coming up next. I have LA this Thursday. If you listen to this, the, the, the week it comes out, I am at Largo in LA once a month doing my standup show there. It's always the highlight of my month. This one is tomorrow, so come out to that if you can. And at July 16, largo-la.com for tickets and go to peteholmes.com for all my dates. Portland, Maine is coming up. Verona, New York, Vancouver, San Luis Obispo, Madison, Wisconsin. They're all on peteholmes.com and check out my kids book which is called spells to cast on your parents that is available for pre order now. I hope you like it. We just did the audiobook. It was so fun. But the book book will be out in September and you can pre order it now. I think that's it. Oh yeah. Silly, silly fun boys on YouTube. I am not for everyone is on YouTube. Two comedy specials. Two full comedy specials are up fresh on YouTube. And in the meantime, enjoy my chat with the incredible Brian Jordan Alvarez. Get into it. Mornings have a rhythm.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

You can hear it, feel it. And at Quaker we fuel it with

[Pete Holmes]

100% whole grain oats and a good

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

source of fiber in every bowl, helping you turn that rhythm into your soundtrack for a great day.

[Pete Holmes]

Fuel to start, whatever's next.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Quaker official sponsor of FIFA World Cup 26. When you join Sam's club, you get

[Pete Holmes]

way more than you'd expect.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

You don't just get value, you get insider tips from fellow members. You don't just pick up a pizza, you actually vote on its toppings, bacon crumbles. You don't just visit the club because with the Sam's Club app. Everywhere can be the club. You don't just shop the latest finds. You find your people. And at the end of the day, isn't that what it's all about? Come join us. Sam's Club.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay. We were walking in. I'm so excited that you're here.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I'm so excited to be here.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm glad. I really am. Are you? Yeah, I really.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I haven't been on a podcast in so long, so I was like. And I'm gonna talk about this. And I'm.

[Pete Holmes]

Are you really?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, just like, also, I don't do st. Stand up. So I'm like, well, maybe. Maybe I can make him laugh, you know?

[Pete Holmes]

Well, you do.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Oh, thanks.

[Pete Holmes]

I actually, I just think I was doing stand up this weekend in. Where was I? Where was that? Denver.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Whoa.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, it was really high up there.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I asked people. It's like, I don't do a lot of crowd work, but I say, what are you watching?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

People always say, english teacher.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

No way.

[Pete Holmes]

Love it.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Really?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

That's crazy.

[Pete Holmes]

They might know that I love it. Okay. Podcast fan.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

They're, like, trying to get it right. English teacher. You're like, yeah. You're like, what's it about?

[Pete Holmes]

Tell me. The pilot. Yeah, I want to talk about the pilot. What a great pilot.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Oh, thanks.

[Pete Holmes]

It's an incredible show. And I'm really. So it's one of those things where I'm. I'm going to try to not dork out too much because. So if you're feeling any of that, like, oh, I haven't been on a podcast in a while. Yeah. Just know that it's similar over here.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. Good.

[Pete Holmes]

We're watching you. And I started re watching the first season. I just think it's a phenomenal show.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Thanks, man.

[Pete Holmes]

And I said this to you when we spoke on the phone. I was like, I think there's a certain. Or I hope there's a certain category of compliment for people who have also made autobiographical. Although yours isn't. You know what I mean?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Sure.

[Pete Holmes]

Like shows about you. No.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I felt so sympatico talking about.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

It's such a rare experience, but when

[Pete Holmes]

I'm watching a show and it's in, like, the creator and the writer and the star and often the director, I'm like. If I'm being honest, I'm always like, they can't pull it off. They can't do it. I'm gonna feel them, like, watching the other performances, because that's what I was doing. I don't know if anyone can tell, but when I watch my own show, I'm like, I'm not in the scene. I'm watching this guy and I'm thinking about the edit.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So you did a great job. Oh, thanks.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, yeah. There were takes. When there's a take that we had to fix by. You do a lot of. I don't know if you guys did this split screen. You have to split the screen. Yeah. So it's like a two shot, but actually it's not happening at the same time. They're. They're using whatever.

[Pete Holmes]

So you would build it a lot.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And. But one that I remember specifically was because I had just told someone to say a line a certain way, which maybe I shouldn't be doing that.

[Pete Holmes]

No, you can do that.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. Yeah. But I was.

[Pete Holmes]

You mean because people don't like line reads.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

You're an actor. How do you feel about line read?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I love them. I love. Every actor I know is like, I love the help me cheat.

[Pete Holmes]

You love comedy, then.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You don't do stand up.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Right. Well, because it's rhythmic too. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Exact comedians go. Go up on the word maybe.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Right, Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And then it's funnier. Why would I be mad at you? But I understand.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. No, especially with. Yeah. Rhythmic comedy, you're like, no, it has to go like that or something. And they. I mean, I'. The. The friend I was working with in this scene is Stephanie, who's like the most talented. She's the amazing redhead on English Teacher.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

So talented.

[Pete Holmes]

And would we call her a redhead?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. You don't think she's a redhead? What would you call her?

[Pete Holmes]

I don't see it.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

What do you see? Brunette.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm a little colorblind. I see her as a brunette.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Oh, wow.

[Pete Holmes]

She got a full upgrade.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I think she might agree with you because sometimes I. I identify her more as a redhead than she even.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, really? Never once thought, I need like a real orange.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Are you green, red, Colorblind?

[Pete Holmes]

Not usually. I'm also.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

You might be lady blind.

[Pete Holmes]

Valtiz is like, I can't.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I can't look at like. And when the girls come on, I always.

[Pete Holmes]

It's funny that you say that because I've been trying to make friends and I. One of the things I'm fascinated with your show is it is about, let's get to the split screen. Don't forget. But it's about friends loving each other. Like, that's very clear to me. Yeah, it's like, one of the things that struck me that was unique was that you and what is Stephanie's.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Her character's name is Gwen.

[Pete Holmes]

So, Gwen, you and Gwen say, I love each other. You tell your husband I love you. Like, help each other out. Or if you don't, you talk about it. It's very sweet.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And Val, who loves TV as well, is like, it's just friends hanging out.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That's kind of a hard thing to do.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I know. Well, it's what they always say not to make a show about. Right. Don't think you can just make a show about just people hanging out. And it's like. But all the best shows are mostly about just people hanging out. Well, yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Sign.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I feel like I've. You hear that from, like, screenplay teachers or something. You know, they're like, don't. Don't just think you and your friends are so interesting.

[Pete Holmes]

I. Well, that your show is a living, living testament.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

It's a living testament. It's living on Hulu. Yeah. No, but I was. There's a split screen. What I'm.

[Pete Holmes]

What I say. Go ahead.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

That you're talking about watching yourself and seeming like I'm. There's literally. They had to split screen it because I was mouthing her lines.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Because I was like, okay, do it like this. And then she's doing it and I'm mouthing. And then like, oh, yeah. We had to use another take because you're literally mouthing the other actors.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, good.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Will Smith was apparently doing that on the.

[Pete Holmes]

What are you reading my mind?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Is that. Yeah. You heard that. Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Why. Okay, so I am another famous. 10 years older than you.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Do you know David Schwimmer was who Men in Black was originally for? Do you know that one?

[Pete Holmes]

What?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. Good pieces of Will Smith trivia.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Wait, David Schwimmer, Men in Black was. Will Smith was going to be Will Smith's part, I think. I think David Schwimmer.

[Pete Holmes]

Look, I like Demon Schwimmer.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Think about the years that this was happening.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

David Friends was at a fever pitch.

[Pete Holmes]

Huge. People loved Schwimmer.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

We hold.

[Pete Holmes]

Is it like an ice cream cone?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Okay. Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

You're doing great.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I'm trying to get.

[Pete Holmes]

That's natural.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Okay, good.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that's good.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

But what's funny is you don't have any. I'm like, I don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

Katie's.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

You don't have any feedback.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

You don't worry about it as a broad. But I would say, oh, what? I was Saying about the split scene. Okay. A lot.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. The Will Smith thing.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. Let's start.

[Pete Holmes]

They've been like, marketing and packaging. Will Smith is like a perfect human for a really long time.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. A friend of mine went to his house once and said he was shirtless on a treadmill with like those diodes on it and like, they were like a tea. Yeah. They were literally like studying the perfect human.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

So this is a thing. And it even goes back, I think, to Will Smith.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I buy it.

[Pete Holmes]

Fresh Prince days.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Perfect. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

He's pretty great couple, you know, slip ups.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Wait, but what are you going to say about the Fresh Prince?

[Pete Holmes]

I don't want to. But when he would mouth other people's lines on the Fresh Prince, it seems like we saw the same daytime talk show they framed it as. He's such a good actor. He doesn't just learn his lines, he learns everybody else's lines.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

You're right. You got me.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Right.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

So I should think of myself like that.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, I think you're having a more sober approach because that is a spin. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone in every TV show ever, unless you're really just have no mind for memorization. You know, everybody's lines by the third time you do it.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Right. Especially in a multicam.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

In an ensemble rehearsal.

[Pete Holmes]

It's a rhythm.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So they took something that was actually arguably kind of a flaw. Like, he can't not. And they were like, no, you're actually so good.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. So that was Will Smith.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

That's actually good.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that's actually excellent. Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then the other thing I was gonna say about friendship and you mentioned girls and not looking at them. I'm really just putting this to you totally randomly. I was like, I don't go to lunch alone with my girlfriends.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Mike Pence had the same thing. Did you know that?

[Pete Holmes]

Don't put me in the Pence fence.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Don't.

[Pete Holmes]

Don't pants me in, bro.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

That's. That was one of his famous policies.

[Pete Holmes]

Really?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I always.

[Pete Holmes]

But I don't.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I'm not A little bit. Reason I was.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, yeah. Thanks for not hanging me out to drive.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Like, okay. If I'm. If I'm getting into something with a new guy and we're gonna go the monogamy route, which is not always how you go as a gay guy. But yeah, if we're monogamous and then I'm going to a lunch alone with another, you know, attractive gay man who really is single or available, you know. Thoughts? Everybody's.

[Pete Holmes]

Thank You, I thought you were gonna pence me out to dry right there. Because it is sort of old fashioned and stupid. I'm experimenting.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

It's practical. It's like you don't want to start.

[Pete Holmes]

But I'm like an all the way guy. A lot of my friends, I'm friends with a lot of lesbians because I like that it removes the sexual right.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

That makes sense.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm like, this is great. We can really just hang out. And I do feel that way about my kissing these right on the nip. Yeah, on the nips. Just a little light perimeter of the nip.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

So have, have you done these solo lunches with, with gal. With straight gal pals?

[Pete Holmes]

No.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. I, I, I'm like, but it's not. Your wife's not saying, don't do it.

[Pete Holmes]

No, no, no. She's saying, what's wrong with you? There's one lady friend, like, I'm going

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

to fall in love with them.

[Pete Holmes]

I had a bit about it. I had a bit about it. I, I look at it. I, I favor. What is it? I flatter myself. I go, I don't want to hang out with a girl. There is something you could do. You. But you're not going to. Either I'm gonna like her and she's not gonna like me and that'll hurt my feelings, or she's gonna like me and I'm not gonna like her, that'll hurt her feelings. But I'm like, this is kind of childish. As I'm explaining it well, you ha,

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I mean, once you're married, in a way that should be the solve because you're like, I, I can have lunch with you and I'm in a relationship where the only rule forever is that I'm never gonna, this is never. So then that should free us to just be friends. It should. But then that could make it. Then you fall into this friendship and you're sort of like stealing glances at each other and that, that's even worse.

[Pete Holmes]

What's hotter than a forbidden Roman? That's exactly what I'm saying. So you're walking.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

It's a setup.

[Pete Holmes]

You can have lunch with your female friends. You can. But you are wherever you meet up, you are actually inside the mall where they sell forbidden romance. You might not buy it.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

That's right.

[Pete Holmes]

But you are browsing in the forbidden romance, even if it's not on your mind. I know, I appreciate. How do you prevent that?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

There's no, there's no solve. Really.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't, I, I completely agree. Are you one thing I. Okay, where were we? Will Smith.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But also I nothing.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Pull up my notes.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, I can look at my notes, but I didn't want to leave something off. You're late a lot on English Teacher.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, I think it's very real. No, it create a feeling of urgency.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I know. Nobody wants to watch a show that starts with a gu guy just kind of calmly getting there on time.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, I know. I mean, that's the. Yeah, you have to create all these problems, even all that, you know, you got to write all these problems.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

One of them, all the self righteousness. I don't think I'm, you know, I'm really like, I mean, I'm maybe internally like that, but I'm not, I, I would not, I, Brian, would not stand up in an office meeting and be like, you know what? I think we should do something about this. But maybe I want to be that person.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. I, I,

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I mean, I think like a lot of great things. I just saw Tina Fey talking about Lorne Michaels and how her and Jack Donaghy were actually her and Lauren in a lot of ways.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And so I think similarly, English Teacher, my, my character's dynamic toward the administration was a, was in a way a little bit of a reflection, in a positive way of making the show and like having to stand up for the script that you, you know, believe in or like, you know, I think there's

[Pete Holmes]

a lot of that are actually about making the show. Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Well, it's all you have to go on when you're doing it. You're like, well, this is what my life is about. And every part of life is sort of a kaleidoscope of. Right. It's like everything's a metaphor for everything. So you're like, well, yeah, making this show could be like working in a

[Pete Holmes]

school and you had to stand up to the principal or whatever.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. And be like. I mean, I guess it's like in, in the making of the show. Maybe it's even how I viewed myself. Because if you're going to make a good show, Right. There's all these people making it with you, above you, you know, at your level. Like there's just people, there's people all around and you're having to collaborate with them or often disagree with them. And so I think in one way or another, I ended up seeing myself as sort of obtuse, you know, like, like I'm the guy that has to be disagreeing all the time because I'm the guy that like, is like the. You know, that the show was, you know, whatever my baby or. And so I was often having to be like, well, I really think that this is the right thing to do or something. Maybe it's just how I felt or. But. But then we just. We. What also happens is in a pilot, which I always say, what's. What's a little annoying. I mean, I'm so grateful that I got to make it. But we made it for two seasons, and then, you know, whatever it got, it didn't get renewed. But it's like, when you're making a pilot or you're making a TV show in general, what you're trying to do is set up a perpetual motion machine.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

So the reason they work. So I don't know if people know. Maybe everybody knows this, but the reason they work so long on pilots to get, like, that character in place and these character dynamics is because you're trying to set up something that can then just keep running, like Friends or Seinfeld or whatever. So. So, yeah, I think maybe just in the pilot, we found that as part of the perpetual motion machine, it's like, oh, Evan always needs to be standing up for something he believes in, but often doing it in ways that don't work or that get him into more trouble, and then maybe about half the time, he needs to be wrong, basically.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Which is like me and trying to make the show.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, exactly. Right. And you're principled. Like.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, right.

[Pete Holmes]

Say in the pie. I just rewatched.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Principle. Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Principal. You've been principled, and you are principled.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That you. You're burdened with having to do something that you care about. Like, you're like, I won't just get a tech job. I have to do something.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

That's actually you reminding me. I do relate to this, I think. I. Yeah, I.

[Pete Holmes]

And your boyfriend.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

That's a nobility of spirit in my life.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And it can be painful sometimes and inconvenient. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're also like, you know, am I doing that right? Even that. Right. But. And my boyfriend.

[Pete Holmes]

What? Your boyfriend made a joke? Well, he's not exactly your boyfriend in the pilot, but he says, like, oh, right.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

He's like, just got a tech job,

[Pete Holmes]

and he says some joke. Like, not. I hate that for you. But, like, that's inconvenient or, like, Right, right.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Because I'm like, I'm sorry. I have to have a job that I care about.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. And he's like, that sucks for you.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And he also said that's when he says he listens to red Scare, which is so funny.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, I know. We didn't know if that reference would. Time out.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't even know what red scare is. Oh, you don't? No. Okay. But I just assumed red stayed red scare. I don't know.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

It's a pu. It's a puzzle.

[Pete Holmes]

Is that what it is?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

That was. That was really. I. That. That. That joke line really worked. Yeah, I.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, the pilot does something really great, which is. It addresses somehow. It's still topical. Like, you guys are in line getting your food, and you're talking about how the kids are less woke and they're

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

all right because we're kind of talking about horseshoe theory. We're like, well, the kids have gotten. So is that the horseshoe theory?

[Pete Holmes]

Is it like, it.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Once something becomes fully liberal, it becomes conservative again? And once something becomes fully conservative, that's sort of what the show is. Is playing with a lot of the

[Pete Holmes]

time, which is fun that you were able to make it fast enough. That relevant.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then I was like, is that. And maybe it's in your experience. I'm not asking you to be a representative of, like, any community, but, like, is that your experience that, like, liberal people are kind of being like, no, I'm actually kind of conservative.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Let me see. I mean, no, it's. It was like. No, it's just this. It's. I just think it always happens. You can always see it. I remember. I remember in high school being like, wow. I. And I thought of it, like. I thought. I was thinking this thought for the first time in history. You know, I was like, I know some people that are so militantly liberal that they almost seem conservative.

[Pete Holmes]

You know?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And so that's. But it goes both. It's like. You know, this is a very famous thought. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like, tell me about the process of making the pilot, because I really do think it's fantastic. And the specific lens I'm looking at it is. It's a very small story. Not an elevator pitch. There's a gay English teacher.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I know, I know. It's no concept.

[Pete Holmes]

It's no concept. Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But it's wonderful, and there's a little conflict. Okay. Sorry. I just watched it. I love Better Than you almost. No, no, no, no, no. Not in a bad way. No conflict. But there is a little bit of conflict from an unseen person.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Right, Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Somebody you don't meet.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And then it also gets solved off camera.

[Pete Holmes]

And then it gets solved off Camera.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And then you're like, I think I'm just watching this show for these Vibey relationships.

[Pete Holmes]

You are. And the music and the, like, I wanted to know about, like, I guess we're jumping past writing the pilot and stuff, but, like, the colors of the school, the clothes, the way it's shot, everything felt really, really intentional. I think people really relate to something that feels like it was made. Not just like, let's make a fucking show, but like, I love this. Were you involved in, like, the colors?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Everything. Hallway. Yes. Extreme over. Involved.

[Pete Holmes]

I mean, English is infinite. Like, everything goes.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

That was me.

[Pete Holmes]

This is iconic.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Like, see, this is. Hold on. This is the. This is the. It's called the pitfall of. Anyway, but basically I'm saying you're. You're. You're. You're gonna find that my Achilles heel is. I. I'm. I'm not humble enough about this show. I should be like, no, it was not bad. It's not even good. It was incredible because they. We all. I. I think maybe it's my right as somebody who. Who, you know, it was canceled after two seasons, so now I'm just like, you know what? It was perfect.

[Pete Holmes]

No, you can.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, but I just heard the right show, and it was very. It was very intentional. Yeah. We had a great production designer, Kate Bunch, who. Who. But. But we, you know. Yeah. I was like, I want things to be so brightly colored, really. I was inspired by Alma Dovar a lot. Have you ever seen any of his movies? Like, All About My Mother, this movie that won the Oscar and in 99 and. But, yeah. Yeah, I was. I was really. Yeah. And Jonathan Krisel, too. And we were all really trying to. He directed the pilot and lots of the episodes, and he was an ep, and he was just a big. There's a lot of, like, voice and

[Pete Holmes]

color and, like, you're often like, you're getting hit by balls. A ball will hit you, a football will hit you.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Like, it's almost.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't know how to put it, but, like, it just. It's moving.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's not this, like, stagnant show. And the colors are scared so much, too.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

You know, sometimes you're. This hasn't happened to me that much, but sometimes you're working on something or you'll see somebody working on something, and they're kind of like. Actually, my friend was just telling me he was directing something, and he's like, yeah, you know, you do it, and. And. And you're kind of looking around like, so is everybody, like, Fine with just that. And they're like, yeah, we can move on. And like, on our show, it was just like, we were like, how do we, like, how do we get one more drop of like honeysuckle fluid out of this scene? And how do I make that look better? And how do you know I was. But I, I, I mean, part of it was I, I allowed my focus to just fully just be like, okay, so actually this is all I'm going to care about until, until it's over. But I, I did have a mantra that. Or not necessarily a mantra, but I remember being like, well, one thing I can do is just always, every day show up and go, how do I make the show even better right now? How do I. And in the writing, how do we make the script even better? You know, because it's, it's not a big task to make something a little better.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And then if you're just doing that every day.

[Pete Holmes]

Japanese thing. Do you know that?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Is it.

[Pete Holmes]

No, there's a Japanese principle of like, I can't really do it. Like, if you're exercising, exercise for one more minute.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Whoa.

[Pete Holmes]

And then they're like, but if you do that every day for a year, that's a lot of minutes. But you'll die. Yeah, but you know, it's the idea of like, how do we just get a little bit better every day instead of getting overwhelmed. But that, that intentionality and that drive,

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

we just cared so much.

[Pete Holmes]

That's it. How did you maintain that? Were you like, really careful about?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I mean, maybe it's beginners luck in a way. Or not beginners luck, but. Do you listen to Lana Del Rey at all?

[Pete Holmes]

Not really, probably.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

But passively.

[Pete Holmes]

If it's on.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. On these dates with these women that you go on, you guys, that's why

[Pete Holmes]

we're falling in love. Because Lana Del Rey is on. I'm not a huge music person. Okay. Okay. Yes, but she's.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Well, yeah, I like what I like. She's a genius. And, and she. All I'm saying is her first album was, is so good. And you're like, well, yeah, this is the album that her whole life was leading to until that moment. Then after that, she's made a lot of brilliant art. But there's something about. For English teacher, in theory, it's like there was so much in the reservoir, like behind my dam, like, ready to break out of, like, if I ever get to make it. Because that was the first time I was on a set that was like, that had this kind of money. And what was nice was I had made so much of my own stuff that I felt very natural to be like. Yeah. And I knew how all of it worked because I had come up, like, you know, making stuff myself, so. So it was just amazing to be like, whoa, now this guy asks me where I want the camera.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And I just get to be, like, there. And then I get to look at it, be like, oh, you know, would make this look better. And I knew. So I think it was that it was just, like, in a way, my. All of my. My. My practice and talent had been waiting for this opportunity, and so it was. It was sort of unleashed into. Into English.

[Pete Holmes]

I know exactly what you're talking about. Well, that's why the sophomore album is that sophomore slump, right, With Lana Del Rey.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Happened with almost every artist.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

It's a famous thing. Yeah. No, and I was feeling that a little bit about season two, but some people like season two even better. So I'm.

[Pete Holmes]

We talked about that. We're almost done with season two. We have one more episode, and I felt a difference.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

It's different. It's more of a comedy, I think.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And it's just, like, comedy.

[Pete Holmes]

There's a little bit I can. I'm not. I'm not putting it down, but in the first season, I didn't see any. What is it called when someone, like, builds a cabin and you don't even see any, like, nails? In season two, it wasn't. It doesn't make it bad. It's very, very, very good. But every once in a while, I'll see a nail.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

You're like, they had to build this one.

[Pete Holmes]

Or I'll go. That. I don't.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Why.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm telling you, I love this show. Everybody should watch this show. But season one, there's something that was like. Like, you could probably say.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And it's also because we worked on season one for years.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Because you work on the pilot for years, and then there was like.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

You know, a small room. I don't know what those are called now, but it was like, a small. Right. Yeah. I think the word mini room is.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay. I don't know what zoom room, I think is.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, yeah. So, but then.

[Pete Holmes]

But then.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And then we have. Then we have a real room, and then I think the strikes happen. And then we do it again. We go over the whole first season again. So it was like. It was just years. And then season two, you're like, all right, we have to make this in a year. Which Is a lot fast, right?

[Pete Holmes]

Yes, yes, yes. Again, I think it's wonderful that one of the things that was unique about your show is there's a lot of cross talk and there's a lot of, like.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

We're doing it right now. We are, because I'm talking over you.

[Pete Holmes]

But the problem is. Yeah, but the problem is that is how people talk. It's also very funny. It's also not very funny to have, like, oddball characters like Sean Patton or what's the guy with hair?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Carmen Christopher.

[Pete Holmes]

Carmen, who's amazing. They're both amazing. Everybody on the show is amazing. But, like, it's not very funny to have somebody like Sean's character wait for his time to talk. It's so much funnier that he would just be like, this is how people are at lunch.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

It's really hard to know each other. They just talk over each other.

[Pete Holmes]

But how did you shoot that? Was it just like. You'd have to use the whole take then or something?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

How did we shoot it? I mean, the simple answer that my mind goes to is cross shooting. You're. You're largely talking about. You're talking about the whole show. But really, probably what comes to mind is these cafeteria scenes.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And those. Those. I think we cross shot on purpose so we could talk over each other so much.

[Pete Holmes]

That makes perfect sense.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And the first one in the pilot, which you said you just rewatched the first. This is like, whatever dumb trivia for the five people that care. But the first cafeteria scene in the pilot, that was the third time we shot it. Like, we shot. We shot it once. There was a recast. Then we shot it again when we, like, finished shooting the pilot with the new actor. Oh, wow.

[Pete Holmes]

And then.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And then we were going into the season, and I, in my obtuse way that I'm saying, I was like, I swear this scene is the scene this is gonna get. This is onboarding people to the show.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And it's not right yet because it was good, but it was. It was. It was the one we had. The second one we shot was good, but it was like, you're saying it was people saying their lines with a little bit of overlapping, but they were definitely saying their lines. And I was like, it has to be insane.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

It has to be like, you can't. You don't even know what anyone's talking. Totally. And so we shot it again. We cross. I remember Carmen was getting kind of. He was getting frustrated that day because he was like, no one's letting me Say anything. And I was like, no, no, just trust it.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, just say it.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Just try to get it in.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, that character in particular is the pop guy.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, It'll pop him.

[Pete Holmes]

And he says the funniest thing.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

So good. Or he was always trying to make us lo. Yeah, a lot of that's improv.

[Pete Holmes]

Is a lot of it improv? That was the next question.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, it's a lot. It's a blend. Yeah. But that. That first. Yeah, that first cafeteria scene is like a cross shot.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm glad you did.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Because that is the thesis of the show, and it does feel like friends.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I think, like. So Sean's character has, I think, an endearing perspective. Of course, he says he doesn't vote until he watches the debates. And you get the sense that that's not really true. But then he actually. He pulls on your character's heartstring, which is like. He calls it, like, integrity of. Integrity of vision, spirit or something.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Nobility of spirit.

[Pete Holmes]

Nobility of spirit. Which is. Which is what your character. So you see how these guys would cross contaminate each other. Even though you have, like, kind of a conspiracy or whatever you want to say Sean is and your character. But you can see why they would like each other privately or quietly. Yeah, yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Or basically that they do like each other.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I. I don't even know why I made it a conspiracy. It's not or.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I know what you mean, though.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, they do like each other. But I think in a bad show, the gay male teacher is enemies.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But you kind of can't help but love Sean.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

So cute.

[Pete Holmes]

And that's, like, unlikely. It's Han Solo.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's the guy that, like.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

You don't know Star wars well.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, it's okay. But he's a. He's a villain. He's Harrison Ford. He's not like a traditional villain. But he does kill Greedo. Greedo.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Oh, my God. He killed Greedo. They killed him. They made a point to Greedo. A positive figure.

[Pete Holmes]

You don't know this.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I watched this. You should know the Star wars all in order.

[Pete Holmes]

You should know one thing about Star Wars. Is it Greedo? Katie, just write who. Yeah, Greedo. So Han is at a table. This is a new hope. The very first one. He's a smuggler. So he's like a drug dealer, kind of. He's smuggling stuff for Jabba the Hutt. So he's a bad guy. So he's redeemed by working with the Force and with Luke and everything, but he has a meal with Greedo, and he shoots him before Greedo does anything. Han shoots him under the table in the reboot or the reimagining that. Remember the George Lucas recut? They changed it. That Greedo shot Han, they shot.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

That's a huge deal.

[Pete Holmes]

The fans were livid, and their shirts say Han shots.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

When they came out in the. In the 90s and they did the

[Pete Holmes]

CGI, when they did all the. Sorry, but I didn't need it, they added some, like, lizards and shit. They also changed a very core principle of Han Solo, which is that he's a bad guy that murders people.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

But this sounds like maybe George Lucas always wanted it like that. And he goes, I'm gonna go back and fix that studio note or something.

[Pete Holmes]

Look, I think there's a whole movie about it, and I think I've seen it.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

What's the. What's the take? Like, what happened? He just was like, these are kids

[Pete Holmes]

movies, and you can't have.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And you have to have the good guy be good. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

To be good. And they were like. But in the 70s, it was like, no, he's pretty good. He's shooting that weird alien guy. And we're like, no, that's a person.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Greedo had a family, but Greedo is his name.

[Pete Holmes]

His name's Greedo.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. So you might see people. Does the audience know that Greedo is a good. Greedo's neutral.

[Pete Holmes]

No, he's a bad guy.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Oh, okay. So Han Solo kills a bad guy. So what's the problem?

[Pete Holmes]

Because it's unprovoked. It's like he shot a guy that was, like, just sitting there.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

It would be like if I shot

[Pete Holmes]

you, just like, that's Han Solo. Just like, I don't like this, and then I shoot you. It's like.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

It is a bad. It sounds like a cool intro to a character.

[Pete Holmes]

It's a great intro. So it would be like if you went back and ADR'd Sean Patton to be like, of course I loved Obama. And then he says everything he says. So we digress. I am curious about. We digress.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

We digress.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm interested in when you were writing the pilot, talking about these things. There's an issue from an unseen character, and it's resolved off camera, literally. For people who haven't seen the pilot, which you should. It won't spoil it. There's an issue. You are in trouble for kissing your boyfriend in front of class. And you're, like, taking the. It's a very funny part where you go, homophobia. This is a part of your character. Like, you're gonna take up this mantle. But then you go into the principal's office, you give him your letter, and you think like in a classic show, okay, now there's gonna be like a trial. I. My skin crawls. There would be, like, in a bad show, there would be. That woman would respond and would say, no, I wouldn't celebrate or whatever. It just goes away. You never got.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

But it goes away in a specific way. I mean, I guess we'll spoil it, but. Oh, yeah, because the. The straight. What conservative leaning, libertarian leaning coach. The Bear.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, he's a classic bear. He's wearing eyeliner.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

He's not.

[Pete Holmes]

But he.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

He.

[Pete Holmes]

Sean's one of those. I forget what. But his eyelashes are so dark.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

He looks like Alice Cooper. Cool.

[Pete Holmes]

It is cool.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

He's amazing in the show.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

A bust of. Of a king or something.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah. You think of him when you need strength. No building like you're gonna die. He's got nobility of spirit.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And he's so great. He's such a big part of what worked about the.

[Pete Holmes]

I. I've known Sean for, I don't know, two decades.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. And I was telling you on the phone, like, he's.

[Pete Holmes]

He.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

He's somebody that so many people. Sean Patton is who we're talking about. Do you guys do this direct to camera?

[Pete Holmes]

You can. You can present it.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Sean Patton, that we're talking about. He's somebody that so many people were fans of, and he had never gotten that big part that he deserved, that I'm. That I was aware of. And so him getting this part and just making it sing was. Was such a. Was such a triumph, not just for him, but for all the people that had been like, I knew that guy was going to be a big deal.

[Pete Holmes]

Me too. Too. And. And he knocked it. That was actually the first.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

His acting is really great.

[Pete Holmes]

I agree.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. Well, no, you never know.

[Pete Holmes]

No, no, no, that's. That's one of his lines.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Oh, right, right.

[Pete Holmes]

In the pilot, he solves the problem and you're mad.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Right, right, right.

[Pete Holmes]

For fighting. And there's this very.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

All of that is in. Is the. The interesting thing is that he solved it for me. And then you're like, oh, so these guys are buddies.

[Pete Holmes]

Right, right, right. Which we're back to the friends being friends.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. But he's so fantastic. But you didn't get. I guess nobody, like, pushed back. Like, I'll give you an example. I'm not ashamed of this but in the pilot for Crashing.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

We, like. I remember I wrote a smaller story, and then Judd was like, in a pilot, you have, like, Pete has to stop a robbery. He said it very offhandedly. And I, like, I was so his apprentice that I was like, so Pete should stop a robbery. He's like, yeah, it could be that maybe. Maybe Ted and I just literally did that. And when I watched the pilot of Crashing, I see how it works, but I appreciated that your. Your pilot doesn't have. Ethan. Ethan, Right.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Evan. Evan.

[Pete Holmes]

Who cares? You're so mad.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Ethan Hunt from Mission Impossible. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Valkyrie.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

We thought about naming him Ethan. Maybe you were feeling it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Valkyrie is the first I did see Valkyrie in theaters. Not bad.

[Pete Holmes]

Not bad. I don't. I love T Cruise, and I've never. I don't even know what Valkyrie is. No. Is it good?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

It was good. It wasn't one of his big hits. He plays.

[Pete Holmes]

This is, like, in the category of Oblivion.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It was. Same time period as Oblivion.

[Pete Holmes]

And Oblivion's a future comedy. Not comedy.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

It's a comedy from the future. We don't know it's a comedy yet. Yeah, it'll be a comedy when all that happens. Happens.

[Pete Holmes]

No.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

What? No, but the really good one is Edge of Tomorrow.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Which they.

[Pete Holmes]

Live, Die, Repeat. A marketing disaster. You know, they tried to rename it Live, Die, Repeat. It's officially called Live Die, Repeat now, but it's not.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I know. Then I hear the. I hear these Tell of this. People are like, well, now that it's called Live D Repeat, I'm like, nobody thinks it's called that. Nobody ever thought it was called that. We're not calling it that. Nobody's ever said that. We. We are smart enough to see that. The billboards say, Live, Die, Repeat. It's okay, relax.

[Pete Holmes]

They were. I think they were just convinced it would have made a hundred billion dollars if it was.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Oh, because it didn't. Because it sort of didn't do as well as it should have.

[Pete Holmes]

It shouldn't have. Well, Bill Hader, I think Famous, in my opinion, famously, is like. It's a perfect movie.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

It is a perfect movie.

[Pete Holmes]

Right?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

People always love movies where the same thing happens 30 times.

[Pete Holmes]

So it's.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Groundhog Day is another perfect. Well, it's like, yeah, because you only had to make 15 minutes of a movie, and then you got to make it over and over.

[Pete Holmes]

Palm Springs. Did you see Pumps?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

No. No. Oh, that's the same thing.

[Pete Holmes]

Andy Samberg, Groundhog Day. Oh, okay. But they Kind of did it in a new, new way. Yeah. Like they had him like the first time you meet him, little spoiler. He does this incredibly choreography. He's at a party and he keeps like moving through the party seamlessly, like picking up a drink, helping somebody that's falling. Sits down before a chair is there and you're like, what the fuck? And you don't even know. And then you find out later it's because he's lived the same day over and over.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Oh, that's smart.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a great. It's a fun way to figure it out.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. Every bold journey starts with a decision to go. And if you're ready, the Defender is too. This is a vehicle built for more. Whether you're heading off the grid or just getting out of town for the weekend, Defender is a true icon reimagined for a new generation. Its rugged exterior is built from durable materials and tested in the toughest conditions. Inside, it's modern, functional and refined with smart storage and premium touches that keep you comfortable wherever the road leads. It's packed with tech like 3D surround cameras, ClearSight, ground and rear views, driver assist features, and an intelligent, intuitive infotainment system. With three models, the Defender 90, 110, and 130, there's a Defender for every kind of adventure. From city streets to remote trails, this is a vehicle that, like you, is capable of great things. Explore the full Defender lineup@land roverusa.com this

[Pete Holmes]

episode is brought to you by our friends at dad Grass. It is summertime. It's time for friends, it's time for fun. And trust me, if you're having people over and still just putting out the usual fare, you need to up your game. Because when I put out new leisure drinks by dad Grass, these are sparkling Yuzu flavored cans that ship legally to all 50 states. If you're over 21 that have 3 milligrams of THC and 6 milligrams of CBD for the perfect, in my opinion, buzz that makes you feel happy and relaxed and gets you merging into that social situation, having more fun at that game night, enjoying that movie just a little bit more, and laughing so much more. They are stackable, meaning it's a pretty mild buzz, but they're stackable if you want to do it bigger. And they are fast acting, which means you will feel it in about 10 to 20 minutes. It's not like some mystery edible that you take and six hours later it hits you and you're trying to have Dinner with your parents. It's not like that. You know how you'll feel in about 10 to 20 minutes. And they are delicious. And every time I put them out, boom, gone. More people want them than you think, and you want them more than you think. And like everything dad Grass does, it is taking the edge off without blasting you into outer space, which is what I love about this company as a whole. They have joints, they have gummies, they have cbd, they have cbg, they have. They have basically gummies and joints that don't get you stoned, but just relax you if you don't want weed. But if you do want a little bit, try their leisure drinks. They are amazing. Try all their products, including their joints. At gummies. @dadgrass.com weird and use promo code weird for 20% off. That's dadgrass.com weird promo code weird. Before I got my Apollo Neuro, which is a piece of wearable tech that I wear on the inside of my wrist. Val wears hers on her ankle, which is very subtle. People don't even know I wear it, even in bed. Before I did, I used to think I was bad at sleeping, like it was a character flaw. But it turns out I just need a little help. And what I love about Apollo Neuro is that it gives you that help. It helps your body unwind by speaking to it in a language, the language of touch, that your nervous system can understand and gently calms you down when you're about going about your day and helps you fall and stay asleep without any chemicals. You don't have to ingest anything. It just calms you down, telling you these subtle, almost subperceptual vibrations. Hey, you are okay. Mostly at night. It's my favorite. But all day I rock. It helps you focus, helps you energize, helps you be calm, helps you be social. And like I said, they have the smart vibes AI which automatically adjusts throughout the night when you're sleeping. That helps you stay in rest mode instead of suddenly deciding it's time to think about every awkward thing that you've ever said. I don't know if I'm the only one that feels that way. If you've done all the quote right things about sleep but still feel wired at bedtime, I really recommend checking it out. Go to ApolloNeuro.com weird you'll get $99 off. That's a P O L L O N E U-R-O.com weird for 99 bucks off.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Wait, but what you're saying is then you're glad that my.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, you didn't stop. Thank you for hosting this podcast for real. Because you didn't have the car crash. You didn't have the, like. Yeah, yeah, you stop some violence or something.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I think I have a relatively interesting answer to this, which is. I think it's. Paul Sims was the. One of the. Sort of the big collaborator on English Teacher with me, and he's a. He's a great, great, brilliant writer, great guy. And he. He was like, I think I write with even less structure than what you saw. And so I sent him a pilot

[Pete Holmes]

that had all these vibes that I'm talking about. Stopping crimes and stuff.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

No, no, no. That had all of the character flow and the people talking on top of each other and, like, some gentle problems coming up, but things got resolved even more effortlessly and stuff. And he helped add structure by adding these pieces that you're talking about that are still a little shockingly off screen, but give it some shape.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

So. And maybe he knew, like, well, we don't want to mess up the fact that really the show is about sort of these. These fun, vibey interactions and some of this sort of whatever. This conversational interplay. But. But I. Yeah, I think my thought is that it was. It was even less structured than that. It's really interesting.

[Pete Holmes]

And we are ruining the pilot. Let's just own that. That it ends.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Anything to get them to watch it. That's what I learned from Market I've watched. It's like, just put out the last scene where the person dies, whatever, if it makes them click the link, you

[Pete Holmes]

know, I mean, Marvel agrees with you. They were like, just show red Hulk. Sorry, I didn't even see that one. But people were mad. Anyway, you. The pilot ends, you're told you're forbidden to date anyone on the staff.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

That sets it up for the season for sure. But then we don't get back to that for weeks.

[Pete Holmes]

You don't. And also, I feel like I'm just taking inspiration from it. I feel like the temptation would be to end the pilot where you kiss that guy and you end it where he goes, nice shirt. And you go, this plain white shirt. And he goes, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you make a great face and it cuts to black. I mean, I'm. I feel like I'd be a good bad executive because I'd be like, they need to start making out. That's your moment. I hate this. I'm glad you didn't do that. But I feel like that's the kind of pressure that people making shows are under is to make it like, splashy.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

But it's fascinating because this won't be satisfying for you. But that is what happened in the pilot. I wrote originally that they kissed. Yeah. That is satisfied. And they're like, gonna go do a whole thing. And then. And Paul Sims. And then Paul. And I think the network rightly were like, no, no, no. Because famously, when does a love story end? When the two characters finally kiss.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

So you just take it and you stretch it out over the whole season.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right at the third season.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And that was the. And it's. And it's one of the great engines of. Of season one, you know?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, absolutely. This whole romance and the gay bar episode is fantastic. No notes. No notes. No notes. So you wrote it. Tell me a little bit how you got it made. You had your. You had been doing stuff.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I had been doing stuff. So I made a lot of stuff online myself and like, sketches and then like a full length thing that people really liked called Caleb Gallo.

[Pete Holmes]

And then.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And then I like, had different shows in development for years, which is normal.

[Pete Holmes]

But you don't know that as a young person, though, you're like, any one of these is going to be my train coming in. And like, somebody has to be like, no. Like, when I have a meeting with.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

For somebody now, I'm like, you know, she got. And then she made a perfect show. I think usually the lesson is that, you know, it's like, you know, if you would have just made it the thing, the first thing that that, like, young person brought you, it would have been good.

[Pete Holmes]

I agree with that. We. We're kind of haunted by tiny furniture in our house because Valerie is a filmmaker.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

She's made film. Tiny Furniture.

[Pete Holmes]

She's a film. My wife has a film called Tiny Furniture.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Instead of being haunted by tiny furniture.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, haunted by. But I. Look, dude, believe. Where does it say? Yep. See where it's a Lena knowing self. One of the things that I think is a very strong suit of you is you do seem to know how you feel. Not easy. What your shortcomings are. Like, for example, Ethan. No, Evan.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Evan.

[Pete Holmes]

Sorry, Ethan.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Impossible.

[Pete Holmes]

Not. Not that one. But then now I'm going like, Ethan, like Ethan Hunt, your character. Oh, what was I gonna say? Now I'm all blocked up in that

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I can talk about Lena Dunham.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, thank you.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

He gets mad that he's not invited to the, like, help build the swimming pool.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Right, right.

[Pete Holmes]

And that to me feels like, something Lena would do. It's like, you know, that you don't want to help. Help, but you want to be invited to help.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

So you cannot go.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

But this points to a bigger thing, which is when people come up to you and they're like, I loved your show. That lead character. It's amazing how you made him so unlikable. I don't think that was intentional, but I appreciate it.

[Pete Holmes]

What do they mean?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

But I'd like to think that I. I. Yesterday I was in my kitchen, like. Like doing some dish or something. I was like, you know, my work is. It's kaleidoscopic. People see different things in it or what. What's that called? Ambiguity. What do they mean? Like that, like, oh, a guy that doesn't want to go help at a physical labor thing at a friend's house is obviously not a great guy. Am I? What?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I think if I go.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. Fun. That he has a friend that she. She knows him well enough to be like, oh, you want to be invited, but you don't want to help.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's.

[Pete Holmes]

That's. I mention it all the time. There's a Bruce Herrick Kaplan New Yorker cartoon where it's like, I don't want to go to the party. I just want to be invited. It's something like that.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

That's right.

[Pete Holmes]

And I was like, but that's a real person.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't know what world people are living in that, like, somebody has a build a pool party and everybody shows up. I like the guy that's like, I don't want to do that.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I know. What's so funny, though, is then my sister in real life, Catalina, who's a great, great artist and person, she was talking about. She was talking about that episode. She's like, I love that episode where Brian's character doesn't like helping. She was like, because that is, like, real.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And I was so offended. And then it's like, well, I wrote it. Like, why am I.

[Pete Holmes]

But it is real, but it's also consistent. This is a real person.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Your character doesn't go to brunch. I thought that was a great line. You say brunch is like gay church. Right, right. And I don't go to that either. Yeah, yeah. I was like, this isn't just like. If my wife were to tell you about me, she would probably start with the things I won't do. You know what I mean? Like, I won't linger. I won't. I Like, getting out of things. I'll never not want to leave something. This is how you build a character. You go, pete seems extroverted, but he's really introverted. He's never been disappointed by a canceled plan. He's fine leaving. We've gone to Disneyland. And I'm like, if my daughter was like, let's leave, I'd be like, fine. It's like, I just. I'm okay with that. And some people are like. Or you could say the kind of person that goes to Disneyland before it opens, has a strategy and all that stuff. That's another kind of person.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. Yeah. But you're. You never want to stay at the. You never want to just stay at the party.

[Pete Holmes]

At a party, like, at the end of the night.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, no, I've become. I've gotten into it lately. I used to always want.

[Pete Holmes]

But is this a sex thing? No, I'm not. Because when I was single, the first thing. Yeah, it was actually Kurt Braunaller, he was like, if you want to have sex, stay till the end of the party.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Oh, I was just.

[Pete Holmes]

I didn't mean to turn the comment. No, but tell me what you're. What. What's interesting about.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I guess I just lately have been like, I'm always leaving the party. What? I'm gonna go home and be on my phone. Like, yeah, more interesting that more life will come into my life new. Because if life is often so refreshed by. By meeting new people, you know, and, like, new chapters opening up, you know, I'm just like, well, that maybe that'll happen even by specifically staying somewhere a little longer than you would have, like, this extra minute of working out that the Japanese.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Thing recommends. But, yeah, it's like, maybe I've also been like. It's like a test of being like, Let me actually just be like, oh, yeah, I am awkward. I'm just awkwardly staying here, you know?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Exposure there. No, you're.

[Pete Holmes]

You're.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Instead of being like, nobody likes me. I better get out of here, you know, and not. Or. I don't like being here.

[Pete Holmes]

I. It's gotten a lot worse. If that's bad that I like hanging out with my wife. It's very boring and stupid, and I like being where my daughter is, and I like just.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

This is. It's so simple. You're right. When I was in a relationship, I was like, let's just go home, be with the person that I'm really comfortable.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that goes back to why I don't want to go to lunch with girls. The root. The rude joke I made is, what. What, are we going to hang out? I already have one of you guys.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. That's so.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm joking.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Funny. When you're dating somebody and they're like, let's be friends. It's like, I literally have friends. This was a romantic.

[Pete Holmes]

That's exactly. Exactly right. Are. You're not in a relationship now, so you're staying apart?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Oh, I'm single.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Single, like, does that.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I'm. I'm. I'm single with some. Some, you know, I don't know, some interests, because that's an interest.

[Pete Holmes]

That's one of the things that the show did that I didn't know could still be exciting was it felt like a very. You tell me if you feel this way. But it felt like a very honest portrayal of being gay. Again, not the whole spectrum of there's a million ways to be gay, but like a certain type of modern, young relationship.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Thing.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. Time. Time magazine called it the. What did they say it was like? It said, english teacher has the most realistic gay relationship out of any TV show. But it's also like. Like, because it was me and my ex constantly hanging out and almost getting back together.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

But being into each other, but being so. So open that it was like we almost weren't together. Which, like, you're saying is not the case for everybody, but.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Is something that I think people haven't really seen. Yes. But remaining gay. I do see that style of relationship a lot. Or even gay married couples will be completely open. Like, more open than you could imagine.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. You know, I can't say who it was, but it was a pretty prominent gay person in Hollywood, and he was married, and he was like, what I. What me and my husband understand. And this isn't all gay people. It's what he said is like, if my husband met somebody, had sex and then came home, it wouldn't even. This is what he said. It wouldn't even be a thing. It would just be like, that's fine.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. Of course.

[Pete Holmes]

But what I. It's not just that you showed that. It's that it was this naturalizing of the whole thing.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Very specific.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Trusting your audience.

[Pete Holmes]

When you guys start making out in the first episode.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's not. It's not done in this. Like, isn't this crazy? Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And it didn't even.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. You know what I'm trying to say?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

There's.

[Pete Holmes]

There's a time where it was like a cheap special effect. Two guys kissing.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like, look, can you believe it? And it was shot and it was choreographed, and it was scripted in a way that you were like, like. And then we see them kiss. I know. This was just like, oh, these people are dating.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I know. Yeah. I mean, it's also cuz Jordan Firstman is so great, and he's so comfortable with himself as a person. I'm always, like, taking lessons from. From him about. I just watch him on a podcast with me, and I'm like, he's so real. Yeah. And so he just makes you feel so comfortable. And so I think he was the perfect person for that part too, where it just really did feel like these two guys would be in a relationship and it would be. Yeah, I would just, you know, whatever. But that's also. I think that's the benefit of. Of making this show and being gay, which I guess I always would have been doing. But, yeah, it's like, yeah, it's. It's. It's inside. What's it called? Inside Baseball. Inside.

[Pete Holmes]

Inside Baseball. Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, it's inside Baseball. And so. And we also can make a lot of jokes that wouldn't work if. If I wasn't the one making it. Like, this kid, like, in the. The. In the final episode of the first season, this kid tries to come out to my character.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, it's on the. It's on the.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because I. Please go on.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, yeah. This. This. I'm like, in my class. My character's in his classroom, and this kid, like, comes in. He's like, Mr. Marquez, I want to talk to you about something. I. I think I'm gay, and it's really scary for me. And. And like, you're like, watching this. You know, we do it very, like, choreographed. Like, we're watching him do this monolog perfectly.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And the camera's, like, pushing in on him. And then it. And then it goes like, bomb.

[Pete Holmes]

And he's so sweet.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

He's so sweet. Actor.

[Pete Holmes]

Great actor. And then.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And then it cuts back to me and I'm like, what, you're scared to come out?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And then I'm basically like, I can't be helping you with this. And Also, like, it's 2026. Like, you have it easy.

[Pete Holmes]

And then I'm like, one of the other two gay kids.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, whatever it is. Yeah. And then I was like, go find a really, like, Queenie kid. And then I'm like, well, don't tell anybody I said Queenie but yeah. And then. And. And I'm like, I. I had to come out in the 90s. Like, that was harder.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought that was.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

But you can all. I can we. I can only make that joke because of, you know, because I'm a gay guy making the show and the audience knows that. And so it's like.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

But I guess it would always be the. I don't know. That would always be that.

[Pete Holmes]

I think that was one of the cornerstones that Cold open is like one of the cornerstones of the foundation of the show.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That's kind of the sense of.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Of humor is like.

[Pete Holmes]

We think he's going to say. Cuz again, here you are being unhelpful.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Right, right.

[Pete Holmes]

But you also do really care about them. It's both. It's a. It's a real person. But like that. I. I've. I've had gay friends tell me that same thing where it's like, why are people even. I understand there are places and, and situations where it's not easy to come out. But you were like, this isn't one of them. And I just had never seen a

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

lot of people now.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

They don't even have to come out. Basically.

[Pete Holmes]

Like.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, it's. I sort of didn't when I was 16. I just. I remember enough people thought I was gay that I was. But I was in a very like, liberal. I always. It's like I went to kind of an intellectual high school. I never know how else to phrase it. It was. It's this private high school in Tennessee called St. Andrew Suwanee. And. And it's just really intellectual. I don't know. It was like. It was like a school where the smartest kids and the best students were the coolest kids. Like they were the popular ones. And so it was like academically, positively incentivized or something.

[Pete Holmes]

That's what I felt about summer camp.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Oh.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like the most like down to participate person was cool.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

That's the best.

[Pete Holmes]

Suddenly I was the Fonz. Like, yeah, yeah. Wanting to participate, wanting to share about your life, wanting to like, create something. Like they're like, this kid's paying out and you go to high school and

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

everybody like, they're like, shut it down.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I know.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Why is that?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. But I'm the ten years between us. I want to hear more about coming out because 16 people. That's kind of a good, good situation was when people have a sense.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. Yeah. Long story short, all I'm saying is I Sort of never came out because enough people thought I was gay that all I had to do was stop denying it when I was accused of being gay. And then I was just gay. So it was. It was easy breezy. Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And we're in. We've crossed the threshold. And what if I am?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And then it kind of made me cooler, which was good, too. And I'm still riding that high. Wait, what were you gonna say?

[Pete Holmes]

Summer. Summer camp? Participating? Oh, just say you'd go to high school. And it was the worst. Oh, the 10 years between us.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I mean, like, that.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

High school. 96.

[Pete Holmes]

I graduated in 97. Yeah. So it was. Was still, like, gay. Being gay was, like, whispered. You know what I mean?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Like, this is why you're still in the closet. That's why I'm deeply closeted. It's a joke to the folks at home. That was a joke. But, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I do want to know.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I don't actually think you're in the closet.

[Pete Holmes]

What's that?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

To be clear, I don't actually think you're in the.

[Pete Holmes]

I appreciate it, but I think we share a fascination. I am enamored with the gay narrative. I know that's maybe an obnoxious thing to say. I think, like, if I watch a movie about queerness, I'm dead.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because I am a person.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

There's something universal about it.

[Pete Holmes]

Deeply universal. It's authenticity.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I know. It's like. Well, sort of like, what does it point at? Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

What does it point at? And. And I would say every call me

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

by your name was this huge movie. Did you see? And it put Chim Chalamet on the map. It put Timothy Shalam on the map in this huge way. And I was watching that movie, being like. Well, yeah. I mean, it makes sense that, that.

[Pete Holmes]

That.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

That I'm, you know, responding to this movie, but. Yeah, but how is this having this huge, mega sellout impact with, you know, whatever 90% of the population that's straight?

[Pete Holmes]

You know, I think the dad.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Those numbers have gone.

[Pete Holmes]

The dad scene.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Those numbers are falling.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Remember when the dad loves him unconditionally?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. So good.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm not explaining this to you. I'm saying I will always be drawn to someone, even despite their self interest, standing up for who they are. Yeah. That's why I. I say this all the time. But, like, I find pride parades very moving. I find. Did you see Come see me in the good light? Omg. You got to see it. It's so good. Come see me in The Good Light show is. It's a documentary about Andrea Gibson, the poet. Oh, it's unbelievable. Yeah, yeah, you have to see it. It was I think the best movie of the year for sure.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

What is this now?

[Pete Holmes]

Last year? Yeah, last year.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Come. Did you see all of us strangers?

[Pete Holmes]

No.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

So good. Andrew Scott and. And Paul Mescal.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like. Is that a documentary or a.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

No, no, a movie. Like just a good feature film. Come see me in the good light. Oh wait. As I'm looking at my phone, I don't know, this maybe cut. Because it's such a non sequitur, but who cares? Just because you're a. Stand up. There is this, this, There is this up and cominging. Stand up who? I'm just, I'm just fully doing a shout out because I have been watching his clips and I'm like, this is so funny. And I think he has like 9,000 followers.

[Pete Holmes]

Dave Chappelle.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I wanted. Yeah, I want to tell him like you're going to blow up, but I don't know if that does anything for people. And also I'm like, I don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

I.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

But what's his name? His name is Griffin James. Griffin James.

[Pete Holmes]

Griffin James.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I don't know if. I mean I shouldn't show you the clips I guess, but he talks.

[Pete Holmes]

You got him up there. I just want to see what his face.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Look, he's talking about therapy. This is therapy crap. I don't do it. I tried it once in college but I had to quit. The guy was dumb. He was dumb for real. He wanted me to come in there and talk badly about my mom.

[Pete Holmes]

That's great.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I was like, who do you think is. Is paying for the session?

[Pete Holmes]

That's fantastic.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

$100 a. I'm in basketball shorts begging you for Adderall.

[Pete Holmes]

That's great.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

You're out here talking about our boss, thinking I'm a ret. That's our boss.

[Pete Holmes]

Our boss. That's that Lena Dunham thing. Like how is this guy so young and knows that that is the joke?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

He's so funny.

[Pete Holmes]

Like when I was his age, I was hiding the fact that my parents would help me with things like that or whatever. Cuz you're embarrassed. You realize all the good stuff is the stuff you're embarrassed by, right?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

That's the hot take.

[Pete Holmes]

That's Lena. And that. I'm saying that's you as well. What's his name again? Griffin.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Griffin James.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, Shout out.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, Griffin.

[Pete Holmes]

It sounds like he's from the south, huh?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

He Also says, like, he says, like, all these girls, like all these girls are getting stronger than guys cuz they're all taking Pilates. And he's like. And honestly, I think y' all all need to get drafted off to war first. Like.

[Pete Holmes]

And he's like. To go first. Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That's amazing. At what point you're a huge. You do a lot of upside down push ups in the show?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

A lot of upside down push ups. Yeah. I find sort of stopped in real life. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I finally. It used to be a thing.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

It used to be an addiction. No. Yeah, I used. Well, it does this thing. It gives you a really good pump. Like if you want to look good, like in the next 10 minutes, you

[Pete Holmes]

can like pre shirtless scene do some

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

upside down push ups. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And when you say pump, I'm not being. Yeah, like a high.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

No, a pump is like your muscles look bigger.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, that's what it is.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Because they've just been worked out.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay. I thought pump meant like. Well, I've heard.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Schwarzenegger is like, nothing's better than the pump, you know?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. I think maybe it's both psychological and physical.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

But upside down push ups, what they technically are, is an overhead press because you're like lifting. It's like if you were sitting here with really heavy. With weights as heavy as your whole body.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Which is why I understand. Never do it. I do it in the pool.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. Upside down push up.

[Pete Holmes]

I like doing what. What used to be called girl push ups as well.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I like on your knees. Yeah, Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't mind. I don't mind. It. It hurts my wrists.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Everything works.

[Pete Holmes]

I weigh so much.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I weigh so much.

[Pete Holmes]

I know.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

No, this is true. This is a true take. It is harder for tall people to get jacked. To get ripped. I'm glad I'm 5 8.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm glad you said we.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

It. It's. It's just true.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, it's.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I've heard this from a lot of people.

[Pete Holmes]

I've heard it from a lot of tall people. I've never heard a 58 say it. And I really appreciate it. It was. You were a big person today.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Have you ever heard Karl Lagerfeld's quote about short men?

[Pete Holmes]

I can't wait to.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Do you know who Karl Lagerfeld is?

[Pete Holmes]

No. It sounds like a beer.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

He was like a big fashion guy. Do you remember what he was? Carl Lagerfeld. Hold on. This is. This is one of my favorite quotes. If it doesn't hit, if it doesn't hit. We can.

[Pete Holmes]

What Fashion designer. I can't wait. I'm also gonna. While you're looking that up, Clothes.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Ryan.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Oh, yeah. You gotta go to the Big and Tall store.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm in.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I'm in showbiz.

[Pete Holmes]

This was. This was wardrobe from a show I did. This is the best a professional could do.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So the fact that you can, like, go into.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Oh, it's good. I think that's on purpose.

[Pete Holmes]

Go in. I like that. I have sort of like a leisured Martha's Vineyard look.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. Carl Lagerfeld says. This just always kills me. Carl Lagerfeld, he had these very, like, very strong opinions about things. And he goes. He goes, the worst is ugly, short men. Women can be short, but for men, it is impossible. It is something that they will not forgive in life to be born short. I have never been friends with a short man in my life. Don't trust them. They are mean and they want to kill you. Oh, my God. Isn't that so funny? Oh, my God. The idea of him being like, I've never been friends.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. This is like my. I don't have lunch with women.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Right. Exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

Similar.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I was also at one of these gay parties the other day and I. I have this group of, like, la. Gay friends, sort of acquaintances becoming friends. And they're. They're like party gays. They're like very handsome guys. And they're all like 62 or whatever. And I went there with a short friend of mine who's sort of my plus one. And it just felt like we were just like. It feels like you're almost like mice running around under elephants or something. You know, you're like Lord of the Rings. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You and Samwise.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm not even trying to be funny. That's the feeling, right?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

This is not our world.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Exactly. And they're all, like kissing each other. You know, you're like the giants. They're falling in love with each other.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, they're right there. They're lined up. Of course they're kissing.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

There's also this thing where you'll be at a gay party and you'll see. I don't. I'm stone cold sober for. For many years. But you'll see a gay guy or some gay guys, and they've done so many uppers and so many downers that they've effectively made themselves completely sober, you know, so they're like talking to you and they think they're fucked up. And you're like. You sound actually Totally normal. And I've seen you doing so many substances because everything they're doing, they're canceling out.

[Pete Holmes]

Even though.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Know that's what people do. They're like, oh, I'm on. I'm up. Let me get the.

[Pete Holmes]

You know. What was that one that the. The other hair character did? Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Rick is his name. Yeah. Oh, yeah. He tries poppers.

[Pete Holmes]

And is Poppers something that.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Is it like poppers? I have never done.

[Pete Holmes]

I actually.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Nitrate poppers. Is video head cleaner.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm sorry?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Video head cleaner for VHS tapes.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Okay.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I guess. I guess I. I got sober before I ever tried poppers, so I've never tried poppers.

[Pete Holmes]

You. You.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I've seen them around and they have a very distinct smell, which if you, like, get up and smell them.

[Pete Holmes]

So this is like nitrous. This is like something that's intended for you guys?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. And it makes them dizzy and then. Yeah. It's often done during sex. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like amelite. Am I saying that right?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I don't know what that is, so I'm not gonna.

[Pete Holmes]

It's a muscle relaxer south of the hemisphere.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I've heard it's. And it's a pill.

[Pete Holmes]

I think you inhale it. I don't know.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Maybe it is. Maybe it's the same thing thing.

[Pete Holmes]

It's just interesting. I. We don't even have to talk about that.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Nitrous oxide.

[Pete Holmes]

Does nitrous help in the bedroom?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

That's laughing.

[Pete Holmes]

No, no, that's laughing because whenever.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. Existing inhalable.

[Pete Holmes]

When my wife. My first wife left me, there was like a. I didn't do a lot of nitrous, but there was like some nitrous. There's always. I know.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Did you. Wait, is this true?

[Pete Holmes]

It's real.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Oh, wow.

[Pete Holmes]

It was.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Wait, what you do? Whip it?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, Whippets.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Oh, that is. That's laughing gas.

[Pete Holmes]

I think so. Yeah, it is.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Wait, isn't it just at the end of the day. Sour cream or the. Yeah, the whipped cre.

[Pete Holmes]

What my friend would do is you buy. You'd go into a sex shop in Manhattan. So it's an adult store, and they sold whipped cream dispensers that put in the nitrous thing, but you just didn't put whipped cream in it. And people would just inhale it. I did it probably three times.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Forgot the whipped cream again.

[Pete Holmes]

Whoops. All berries. And I.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

You did it maybe three times.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Not a lot.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And what's the deal? What's the highest.

[Pete Holmes]

Utter bliss. I don't want to Sell it. That it was blissful. It was like. I'll tell you what it was. It was like this.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

But were you laughing?

[Pete Holmes]

No.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Okay, maybe. Maybe like this laughing gas. Isn't that the same silent laugh? Nitrous. Oxy. Yes. Can I. Can we pause?

[Pete Holmes]

You may.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

The show is brought to us by our friends at Article. I've been talking a lot about these because we genuinely love our new new deck chairs that we got from Article. They come pretty much assembled, they look incredible and the ones they replaced are laughable. The way that it's designed, it's sleek, it's quality, it's not going to break, it's easy to adjust and they get a lot of compliments. I didn't know a pool chair on your deck could get a compliment, but it does because everything that Article makes is sturdy and beautiful and comes, like I said, mostly assembled. We couldn't wait to start relaxing on these bad boys without using those little hardware bags that drive you crazy. That's what I love about Article in general. They make really well designed furniture that feels like it'll last. Whether it's your, your style is mid century modern, coastal Scandinavian or somewhere in between. Everything has that clean, thoughtful look. And it's easy to mix pieces together without your house feeling like a furniture showroom. They also offer fast, affordable shipping across the US And Canada. And if you ever need help, their customer care team is available seven days a week. Plus there's a 30 day satisfaction guarantee so you can shop with confidence. Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of a hundred dollars or more. To claim it, visit article.com weird and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout. That's article.com weird for 50 bucks off your first purchase of $100 or more. Starting a business can seem like a

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

daunting task unless you have a partner like Shopify.

[Pete Holmes]

They have the tools you need to

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

start and grow your business. From designing a website to marketing, to selling and beyond, Shopify can help with everything you need. There's a reason millions of companies like Mattel, Heinz and Allbirds continue to trust and use them. With Shopify on your side, turn your big business idea into sign up for your $1 per month [e-mail] specialoffer

[Pete Holmes]

that's our commercial break, but I was gonna, I was gonna say you can die from whippets and I'm not endorsing them. I think if you inhale it without also inhaling oxygen. Yeah, you're. I don't know. I'VE heard you could die. I don't recommend it if you're trying

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

to live on only whippets as your source.

[Pete Holmes]

When you were in the bathroom, Katie said her neighborhood is covered in flavored whippets. Whippets cans. Like they're. They're marketing them to like teenagers. So apparently whippets are having like a moment.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Those look legal.

[Pete Holmes]

That does look legal. But it is legal. It's.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Oh, because they're legal. You're just doing your.

[Pete Holmes]

Put in your whipped cream. But that's why it's so funny that they sell it. They don't sell the whipped cream. They sell the container. And they sell the canisters in adult, like novelty stores. That's where I saw the connection between what I assumed was the gay community.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Right, Right.

[Pete Holmes]

I think. Because I don't.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

But I have not heard of people using that.

[Pete Holmes]

That's super bizarre. I don't. I. I guess I am a little embarrassed that I've done whip it, but I never craved a whip. It's. When my wife, my first wife left,

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I never craved a whip.

[Pete Holmes]

I never craved one. When she left me, I was so depressed. I know this is sad. I think I put in my book, I took a whip. Somebody was like, So I was 28 and somebody was like, just inhale this. Literally, like after School special. They're like, just inhale this.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Like somebody on this guy. You were on.

[Pete Holmes]

I was at a party and I took the hit and as I was a kaling because it made me feel happy. It like cleared the clouds. But for like this, the whole thing, it lasts like four seconds. And as I was exhaling, I was went, this is the feeling I've been looking for. That's what I said because I was so sad.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

It's good you didn't try something more intense, bro. It sounds I lucked out. You were available to harder drugs. People were like, you should only whip. It's found only whippets.

[Pete Holmes]

Luckily they were like, you should do cocaine. A lot of people were just like, just do a lot of cocaine. And I was like, what?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

They're like, that'll help you get over it.

[Pete Holmes]

That's what they. They were like. It's a specific person I'm thinking of was like, like, when up my. My wife left me. You just do a lot of cocaine for six months and you'll be fine. And I was like, what?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

How's that guy doing? Still good.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't want to say what he's doing, cuz he's doing quite well.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Okay, good. No, that's good, though. So he was right.

[Pete Holmes]

He's all right. He's a showrunner of a very popular show.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Okay, good. Bones. No, I'm just kidding.

[Pete Holmes]

It's the guy who did Bones. Bones is my go to joke show.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Oh. Oh, yeah. I love saying bones.

[Pete Holmes]

I heard you say no, no, no, or you're welcome to it. Let's talk about your sobriety. And also, like, you clearly enjoy being healthy. And I feel like those are probably linked, right?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Sobriety and fitness, are they linked? No. Because like you were saying, there are a lot of people that do drink a lot that are still highly fit, which is when I brought up G, which is a. A drug people are doing out on the scene, which somebody told me also sort of functions as a steroid. So there are. There are all these gay guys with these amazing, like, much better than me bodies. And then I think they don't drink. They do do G, which you don't combine with alcohol. Yeah, these are. This. This is all what I've heard tell of.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But I don't know.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

But I think now it's fading out because enough people had, you know, bad experiences. Yeah. Bad experience.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm gonna ask you to represent known and whip. It's either. I'm going to cheekily ask you to represent the whole community. A lot of gay dudes on hgh.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

What is that?

[Pete Holmes]

Human growth hormone steroids. I see gay bods and I'm like, ain't nobody getting that.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I have learned finally to identify a steroid body. But, you know, no, the soft launch.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, you can tell one.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. Because I am now somewhere. Although this isn't actually true. This is probably cope. I mean, I think. I think I have a good body, but I. I'm somewhere close to maxing

[Pete Holmes]

out how far you can take it,

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

how far I can take it naturally, how good I. How good my body is.

[Pete Holmes]

Do you want to be more buff?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

No, but I could see. If I felt I could. I could see the appeal. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So you would. If there was a button that you could push, push, and you'd just be 30. More muscle,

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

like, because to me, the. The premise is false because shortcuts always have.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, but it's not. I'm not the devil. What if I'm Jesus?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Like, you did great. Honestly, we're a bonus.

[Pete Holmes]

It's just a bonus.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I guess I would. I would take it as long as I was allowed to undo it, like a year later.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, it's an up down switch. You can turn it off.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I think my real. These are like, my. But you'd look neurotic. Thoughts about it are that I think in acting on camera, you don't want to be too big. Well, I guess. Yeah. Then you start playing superheroes and stuff. But, like, if you want, like, acting roles where you can play something close to an everyman.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

You can't be that jacked because it. It really starts to show in your neck and your face. Absolutely. And so there's a nice slimness that you know.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I mean, actors in. There's this thing that. That'll happen where you see an actor and you even think they're sort of. Well, this is. I don't know. Whatever. I'm not. I'm not endorsing anything, but basically, actors are thinner than you think they are. Like, you see them in real life.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And you're like. You're like. I thought this person was the most average weight of anyone I've ever seen. And actually, they're very small. You're almost frail.

[Pete Holmes]

Passing fit. But that's good for comedy. You're not so buff that you go, like, why isn't every joke about how buff you are?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Right, right.

[Pete Holmes]

If you were 30% buffer, every joke would be like this from the guy. What, are you gonna tear a phone book in half? Like, no one would be listening to you.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Is anyone doing that. That comedy.

[Pete Holmes]

The bus. The big buff guy.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Could do it.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Because there is an inherent dis. People are like, I'm not gonna laugh at a joke if you look that good, you know?

[Pete Holmes]

And I. It's funny. I wanted to talk to you about fitness. I wanted. I was just like, what are you eating? I think you look incredible.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Thanks, man.

[Pete Holmes]

And I said the same thing about your level of handsome is like, you're handsome, but not so handsome that you're,

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

like, not enough to anger the gods.

[Pete Holmes]

No, it's actually not. It's not nudging down your hand.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

This guy one time comes up to me. He's like, you have such a nice, understated handsomeness. I was like, is this backhanded?

[Pete Holmes]

I think once you get.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, no, it's good. It's good.

[Pete Holmes]

Did you see the movie or the show? Made for Love? There's the guy.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

No, no. I got us some water.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, you're so nice. Actually, I. I have this big one.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

You want to. Oh, you have.

[Pete Holmes]

I'll take that, actually. Okay.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Hold on. They're not coming out.

[Pete Holmes]

There's an actor in the. Yeah, I Do in the show Made for Love. That's so attractive. He gets cast as a douche and a bro a lot.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

He was in the Big Short as the guy that's like, who is it?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I just take.

[Pete Holmes]

Take Billy Magnus. You know him?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I love Billy Magnus.

[Pete Holmes]

Me too. I think he's incredible. Talented, but, like, he's so handsome. I'm not laughing at him. If he's like, I'm an English teacher.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Right, Right.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I mean?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Like. Exactly. Really?

[Pete Holmes]

There's an old Jim Gaffigan joke where it's like, you can't put a couple photos together.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. Like, wait, what?

[Pete Holmes]

He means, like, be a model. Like, get a portfolio.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Take your one shirtless photo shoot away from never working. Definitely.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I know. No, you're right. I, I do. I. I ride the line. I remember even talking to my sister about it when we were younger. I was like, we're sort of. We're close to being pretty good looking.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm telling you, you lucked out.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

It's good. Well, I wouldn't be. The idea is I wouldn't be funny if I was better looking.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, it's a certain X factor, too. I would. I would argue that Gyllenhaal has a sort of like, why is this person. They've been nudged a little to the left.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Not a bad left.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Gosling is to the left.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Gosling's to the left. Wait, which way is. What's happening on the left?

[Pete Holmes]

He's just been nudged. He's not Denzel Washington.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

He's not Clooney.

[Pete Holmes]

He's not Brad Pitt. He's Brad Pitt. Someone nudged him in a way that I think attracts more interesting people.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

My Aunt Sherry likes Brad Pitt.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But like some other cool lady likes. Am I being. Am I in the area?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

No, you're right. I just had a. I've been having this 38 year old thing where I had a thought and I forgot it.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, it's okay. We were talking about your sobriety and your. And your fitness.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

No, but about this, about being good looking.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh. Oh, you were saying to your sister that you're almost there. Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And just this guy told me I had an understated handsomeness. I don't know. Maybe I'll remember later.

[Pete Holmes]

I think it's. It's got to be like a superpower. I think a lot about these things. Yeah, yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

It's. I'm great.

[Pete Holmes]

We want to root for you.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I told you when we spoke on the phone that I was like, your character. I believe it wasn't quite a runner, but there was a joke on the show that, like, everyone thinks you're average looking.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Right. And I was like, people think I'm high. Yeah. That's funny to be. I think that have to be like, you know, people think I'm hot, but that. Because that is sort of real. Like, it's like. Because a lot. Whatever.

[Pete Holmes]

No, you at the party going, everyone's six. Three is funny. Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. It's just real. I just like. Well, I think maybe what's fun about it is I get to experience both worlds.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

So, like, hot guys will sometimes be like, come on in. Like, I'm saying, they're like, come here. Yeah. And then. But then I'm like, these guys. This is a different level. I'm not. Whatever. Whatever these Adonises are. I'm not this. But I'm. I'm, you know, honored to be here. But. But, yeah, whatever. It's like. And then. But then, you know, I also get to, you know, hang with the comedy people and.

[Pete Holmes]

And pass.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And passes comedy.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

My real friends, that. That I. I end up. I end up connecting a lot with nerds, actually. Meaning, like, people that, like, my. One of my strongest friend groups, like, we play board games constantly, really. But I think it's a couple of things. I think it's because people that are nerdy and into games, they're doing that sort of. Instead of drugs. And because I'm sober, it's like, well, I'm gonna tend toward people that don't do that many drugs or almost none.

[Pete Holmes]

You're right.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Like, I don't really. I'm fine being around it. But if that really is the. The center point of your. Because there are a lot of events that you go to. You'll go to a rave or some kind of a. Get these burps out. I have to exercise these burps. You'll. You'll go to some. This thing happens to me a lot as a sober person. You'll go to some place and you'll go. You know, there'll be this crazy music blasting, all these lights, and you go. I will genuinely think. I just don't understand what is supposed to be pleasant about being here.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And then I go, oh, this is pleasant if you're on drugs.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

This is actually extraordinary.

[Pete Holmes]

If you're on drugs, even at a

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

bar, you go, the music so, so loud. We're talking like this.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I'm like, why does Anybody want this? It's like, oh. Because everybody's on this roller coaster called being a little drunk right now, and they're having a great time being drunk, and I'm not. So I'm just in a room that's made to be drunken.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Sober.

[Pete Holmes]

I couldn't relate more. I couldn't, you know. Couldn't relate more.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

The first time I realized people like what I did mushrooms at, like, Bonnaroo or something, and suddenly Bonnaroo made absolute sense.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Right. Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Everything.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I had this. I was on bo. Exactly. Exactly. I went to Bonnaroo too sober. And I was like, I don't get it. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Now I wouldn't. And now I would be. When you said game night, I was like, details.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I was like.

[Pete Holmes]

Because, I mean, I'm. And if I. I've been going on a lot of guy friend dates, as we sort of alluded to. I'm, like, looking for guy friends, especially up in my area. And it's exactly.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

It's like Shakespeare. It's all these girls that wanted to hang out with you, but they're dressing up as guys to be able to go on a lunch date with you. She's like, my liege, I am. But a man does want you to fall in love with her.

[Pete Holmes]

There's a Shakespeare in love.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Love. One of my favorite movies because it was the first movie I made out with somebody during that movie.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Wow. That was a big movie. Gwyneth Paltrow, very back, by the way. Did you see her in Marty Supreme?

[Pete Holmes]

I loved her.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

She's like. She's amazing. She took, like, 10 years off, and she's back, and I'm. She's like, here's a perfect performance. And then you're like, all the wellness. Like, she looks so amazing. I'm like, I'm buying her skincare products constantly now.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, really?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. I'm like, this works.

[Pete Holmes]

She goop strong.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

She goo.

[Pete Holmes]

She's got good goop. Yeah. Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

She's amazing.

[Pete Holmes]

I like that movie a lot.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't think people. I didn't hear a lot about Marty Supreme. Yeah. Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I thought it was great.

[Pete Holmes]

I thought it was good, too, because

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I think it was just. It was a. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I don't want to. I thought it was fantastic. It's just that it was uncut gem, like a new uncut gems, and maybe they're just equally good. And then you're just.

[Pete Holmes]

Just watching both tense than uncut gems.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Gems, right.

[Pete Holmes]

I got gems the whole time. I was like, although Marty supreme the whole time you're like, yeah, they're gonna catch him.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

There is something so cool about Adam Sandler in that part. And just like, it's cool when somebody can. Can make an act, the correct left turn in an actor's career. You're like, yes, we wanted Adam Sandler to do that. Yeah, it's kind of like. It's like when Alec Baldwin was on 30 Rock and he was amazing. And you're like, yeah, that is what Alec Baldwin should be doing.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

You know, that's what we wanted next.

[Pete Holmes]

Hard to pull off, though.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. Yeah, hard to pull off.

[Pete Holmes]

So your sobriety, when did that. A long time.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

22. Yeah, I basically. I mean, I basically could buy alcohol legally for a year before it was a. A balls to the wall life ending problem. Yeah, I was pulling. I would. My friend, My friend Peter tells me this story that I barely remember. He's like, yeah, you drove us somewhere and you parked and then we were like gonna go in. And you're like, hold on. And you opened your trunk and you took out a plastic gallon of vodka. Like a pop off vodka. And then just like opened it up and started squeezing vodka out and like taking like 10 gulps of it and put the top back on. You're like, all right, let's go into the bar. Like, I was really. Because I still. I still, you know, sort of drink tons of caffeine and work out a lot.

[Pete Holmes]

I.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

What, What I learned is like, like, you know, you use this pseudo addictive personality for good instead of.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

To destroy your life.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. Healthy.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Because I work out every day, and that's. Because that's how I am. I'm like, I have to. I'm routine. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like, people are like, oh, I work out three days a week. I'm like, that would feel so chaotic to me.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I need the routine, you know?

[Pete Holmes]

Well, I.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

But yeah, when I was 22, I got sober because I was just drunk all the time. I would go to class ass, and I would be laughing loudly, shit faced, and they'd be like, you can't be here. And I'd be like, what's everyone's problem? You know, like, just like you, you. There are people where you go, that person has to get sober.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And I always tell people, like, that was me. So when people are like, I think I have a little drinking problem or something. I. I'm trying to get sober. I'm like, I'm like, I kind of don't know how to tell you to. Because for me, it was like, there was no other choice. I was just gonna be. I was gonna be a drunk. Drunk.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

You know, And a drug addict, or I was going to be sober. And so I just. I. One day I was like, oh, yeah. And then I just got sober. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

My friend Julian McCullough had a joke about Lindsay Lohan, and it was at the time when everyone was giving her a hard time, and he was like, if I was 22 and had a $10 million, I'd be dead before I got off the car. I know exactly, like, just couldn't handle it. I know. And I was.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I.

[Pete Holmes]

It's funny. I. I never want to feel like I'm claiming the sober community. I just relate very much. Yeah, you don't drinking. I did stop drinking, and it was. Because it was just like, this morning, he stopped. I stopped about 20 minutes ago. No, but it was like. It really sounds like you were. Like you had the allergy.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I was in it. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I just had.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. Whatever that is. Being an alcoholic, being a drunk.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And did you.

[Pete Holmes]

You don't have to represent the program, but did you go through a program or did you just stop?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I. No, I didn't. I didn't. Like, I've been in and out of it, but I got sober without it. But I'm. I'm sober. Like, buy the book sober, but I got sober without it. And so I don't know how. I don't know. We'll see if we'll. This will stay in, but it's like. I don't know. I think I can say, basically, I didn't get sober with the program. I just got sober sort of, because I knew I had to, which is maybe true for a lot of people in the program where I was like, I have big dreams in life. I have things to do here. I'm gonna make cool TV shows one day that I'll be talking to somebody about.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And. And if I keep drinking, I'm just gonna be a drunk, and I'm not gonna do any of that.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

It was like, it was kind of practical, and. And I knew that it had to be everything because I had abused other things, you know, other substances before, and alcohol was just the final one. And so I just got sober. But. But because I got sober without the program, I've. I've done it. I've even done the steps, and I've been in and out of the. Of the rooms. But the premise of the program, in a lot of ways is you can't stay sober without this. And I was sober so long without it that the foundation that it's built on isn't accurate for me. So I just don't connect to it that much. You know what I mean? They're like, you can't do it. Feels like the message is, you can't do this without us. And I'm like, well, I did. So. I don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

Hard feelings for anybody who.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Who. The book.

[Pete Holmes]

I've plugged it a billion times. But I read a book called this Naked Mind. It's an audiobook and it's about alcohol addiction. And it kind of breaks down, like, how it's marketed and the story behind it and that it's like freedom and that it's fun. And they do the same thing with Coca Cola. They do. It's just like a very. Like, whenever often I see drinking in a movie or a TV show, I'm just like. Even if when I was drinking, I knew that's not what it was.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's always like people that, like, need help thinking and they have a drink or something. And I'm just like. That was not my experience. You know what I mean? Like, when I found out my wife was having an affair, actually I found out that she was having a baby with the guy she was having an affair with. I was like, aren't I supposed to drink? But when you're like in a shock state, you're not like, let's have some drink. Like, it just didn't feel authentic. I haven't seen a lot of. I didn't. I probably did later, but. But like in the movie, you would like, just immediately guzzle to try to drink.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. Crush the feeling or something. But actually you're more like comatose.

[Pete Holmes]

Exactly.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I remember that I went through somebody cheated on me once back when. When that was now. Most of the things I've been in have been open but.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Or a lot of them. But I remember I got cheated on in a pretty mild way in my early 20s. But it hit me so hard that it was the only time in my life. I always look back on this when I'm trying to of. It was just the only time in my life when I lost weight from how much something upset me.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, really?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I would be like, still, you know, and like, food would not inspire me. That's exactly moves me to move.

[Pete Holmes]

I didn't want to, like, eat a pizza either. Like, I didn't want to go to sleep either. I didn't want to be awake. I Didn't want to be asleep. I didn't want to eat. I didn't want to drink.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

You're just kind of like despair.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What? Tell me, can you walk me through your experience with open relationships? So would you say you're not a jealous, jealous person? Is that, like, Would you say that? I don't think that I should conceit.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I don't think I'm a naturally extremely jealous person, but I've definitely experienced it plenty. I don't know. There's an idea. I'm far from the expert on this.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

You know, but there's an idea of. And I think this. Well, I, I, I at least follow one guy on Instagram and he makes this great podcast, and then a third of his posts are like, Like, I got another round of really intense comments about the open relationship stuff. I said so. Oh, really? So we'll see. I don't know how controversial it is to me. It feels, I think most of. Not most, but many of the gay men or couples I know are sort of open. Many are not. There's plenty of monogamous gay couples as well. You can do it any way you want. But, yeah, I think openness has worked for me largely. To me, I just think of it as, yeah, maybe this is controversial. I don't know. I think of it as leaving room for something that's gonna come up. It's like, you're never gonna want to sleep with somebody else. Well, this is one of those.

[Pete Holmes]

But then. Where both sides are crazy. Like, I'm monogamous.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I see how that has its, like, it's like, which pill are you gonna take?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You're sort of. And I'm not asking you to represent it, but like, the open pill is like, it's going to come up. It's absurd to think you're not going to want to. Why do we want that to mean, like, what we've been told. Talk about marketing. We've been told that means you don't love the person you're with. Like you. Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

When I see someone cheat and it destroys the person that got cheated on, or worse, destroys a family, my thought is, this is so unnecessary. I'm serious.

[Pete Holmes]

I go, no, I love it.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

For doing something. Something that everyone on earth wants to do.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. I love this. Valerie and I talk about this.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I think we're the kind of couple that if that happened, we would be like, details.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

That's.

[Pete Holmes]

But I love her so much. Why couldn't I imagine I think that

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

is one good version of the dream. Because. Because sometimes as a gay guy, I feel like I see straight couples struggling with this stuff and I almost want to be like, like, isn't there a way? I've even talked to a really close friend of mine about it who has. He almost ends up having these open relationships, but it's because he never really settles down and is maybe a bit of a playboy or something. But it's like you want to be like, you know, there's this thing where you could sort of be in a relationship but allow room. But anyway, I'm babbling, but what I'm saying is sometimes I think, well, the simplest version of the dream is in a married couple you just go, yeah, we're basically monogamous, but if there's ever cheating, we'll talk about it and it won't destroy our lives. And I'll be. Because if you can go, I'm really hurt. I want you to know that I'm really hurt and I don't trust you. If you can communicate all that.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, but we didn't make it like a all or nothing. Like we never came back from that experience. I really think this is worth talking about. If you were my good friend and I cheated on my wife, I would tell you and you would understand. That would be your role. But I do sometimes think we're playing the part of husband, wife, whatever it might be. And then we go like, well, I've seen this in every movie and again, we're not open. I'm just saying, like, I'm conceding that I'm cosplaying a kink. I'll even say that this is the card. It's religion. This is the unforgivable sin. Which is weird because if I did it, I would understand why I did it. And maybe that's why we hate it so much. Like, you think, I don't want to fuck other people. But you did. Like, that was the right.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

We're on to something.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I think maybe that's what I want to say is like, well, that that other person probably has people that they would like to hook up with too. So both.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Did that.

[Pete Holmes]

But going back to my lady lunch thing, I'm clearly still so kind of Christian and old fashioned somewhere in there that I'm like, if you have sex with somebody, this is. This is not a point of view that I'll defend. I'm just saying it's in there. Yeah, it's some sort of like hyper bonding. It's more. It's more deep. There might be something true to that.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But, like, I think what the open people are trying to say is like. Like, Like I read Sex at Dawn. I read the ethical slide. I understand the counter. Sure.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Oh, yeah. That's where they talk about unlearning jealousy.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. And the idea that it's not. And it's learned to be jealous. Right.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I. I think. I would think it's not learned, but could be maybe unlearned. But anyway. Yeah, go ahead. You read those books, and I think it's.

[Pete Holmes]

I. I've tried to do a lot of bits about this where I go, it's just not worth it to me.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. I'm. I am more.

[Pete Holmes]

That's not a very compelling reason, but, yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

No, I'm. I am more fully on board with monogamy than you would think or that I'm letting on. I'm. I'm basically, like, totally, like. Yeah, I get it. I might try it again soon. Here. Here are real practical benefits to monogamy. Your relationship is a settled thing.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And then you can focus on the rest of your life. And that's it. That's a big deal.

[Pete Holmes]

You went right to the core of it. I say that.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

So when you're in an open relationship, you're like. I mean, especially books, like, you know about how to function open relationships. It's like, so I'm gonna be having meetings about this for four hours a night.

[Pete Holmes]

You're helping me articulate. I've tried to say I'm not enough of a sex guy that I would want a spreadsheet where I'm like. And the joke is like, well, I. I did this last time I was with them or whatever it might be the. That's. That's an exaggeration. But, like, when. What you just said. And Val and I. This is not like an issue with us, meaning being faithful to each other in that traditional way. But when we do talk about. I go, you know, I'll never cheat on you because my life is interesting enough. Meaning I don't need to start a fire.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

There's something. There's something sex about doing stand up. There's something sex about performing.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Are you getting tons of attention?

[Pete Holmes]

It's. And reciprocity and art.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

You're making art, which is very.

[Pete Holmes]

And there's something mergy. And there's something witnessy about live performance. You know what I mean? But also just on a set, like in a scene, two characters can really witness each other. And I'm not saying I'm not an idiot. I don't think that's sex. But like, when people have affairs, they might be looking for some eye contact. Jackie Novak, Jacqueline Novak had a great joke about a meaningful connected experience. A meaningful connected experience constantly. And you can have, look, I'm gonna sound like Kanye west before all the real crazy, but like, you know, dropout around that time. I'm gonna sound like a megalomaniac. I'm saying if you can merge with your work and your authentic voice, that sex too. There's something really like, enlivening about that.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

No. And what you're doing to me, incidentally, is pitching monogamy.

[Pete Holmes]

Correcting. Oh, wow.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Because I, I just think that I, I have dabbled in it in the. Isn't that so funny to say dabble in monogamy somewhere in the last few years where there have been times and I just am like, God, that is because you could also just. I mean, for me, with the nice availability to be open in many relationships, you can still just lean toward mana. I can just be like, well, how about I'm allowed to do stuff with other people, but I'm not going to try to and I'm not looking for. For it.

[Pete Holmes]

That's what we always used to say.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

We're. What did. Katie, can you remember? That's a 10 year callback Val and I used to call ourselves.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

But that's not where I am right now. Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

We didn't act on it, but we knew we'd have known each other.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

That's nice.

[Pete Holmes]

And we say that to each other. I. I go, but what's the reason I call it a kink is.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

But maybe the permission is so freeing too. You're like, I could. And now I don't even want to.

[Pete Holmes]

That's exactly.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I know I get to choose. You get to keep choosing each other.

[Pete Holmes]

But I'll go one further. Now that we've been married and together for 13 years, I'm like, and I do think it's a kink. I think it's a. Maybe not a kid. You mean, like, what's that?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Like cucks that like to watch the.

[Pete Holmes]

No, no, no. That is a kink.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Maybe I'm misusing kink. I just think there's something, if you can get into it, erotic about being like you're mine.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Of course.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, of course. And that. And we lean into that. That like, Like, I like to tell Val, like, there's this is an overshadow, but I'll be Like, I'm not one of those guys. Like, I, I'll, I'll. I don't, I don't threaten her. There's nothing like that. It's just this, like, playful reminder of, like, I'm jealous of you, like, I want you, like I need you around. And she's the same with me on the head. Is that right? I'm turning it sexy.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

You're selling me. Yeah, no, I've had this. Yeah, Yeah, I am, actually, you know,

[Pete Holmes]

I'm not trying to sell you on it. Yeah. I'm trying to not sound like a TO.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

That's why it's a good sales pitch.

[Pete Holmes]

Exactly.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

That's how a good pitch works. Yeah, that's exactly. Like, you don't even need to make this show.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Make it somewhere else, fx.

[Pete Holmes]

You could do it. You're doing fine. You take some nuts and you walk out.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, the, the, I mean, definitely the, the, the main pitch, I think often for monogamy is that you're gonna kind of reach a deeper level of intimacy because you have this total trust. But, but really what you're saying is a really good hard pitch where you're like, do you understand how actively hot that is to be? Like, we only belong to each other.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. That's what I'm saying, I think. And Val and I just lean. We. There was a.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And then you feel really even freer with that person and. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. Yeah. And you can do something new. Who said that? I think it was Brad Pitt, of all people. But it was like, if you end something and then start a new thing, you're doing something you've done before. You have new relationship energy with somebody. But if you stay in the thing, you'll be in uncharted territory. That was the other.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Whoa, deep.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I mean? It's like, oh, now you've been with someone for 13 years, you've never done that before. And don't get me wrong, if our shit got fucked and was jammed up, I wouldn't be telling you this, but Ravel is an exceptional person.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, I am.

[Pete Holmes]

She loves you, by the way.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Oh, thanks.

[Pete Holmes]

We were like, like really bonded over how much we love you and the show together. It was really great.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Can I ask you a weird. I don't think it's that weird.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Sure.

[Pete Holmes]

I, I find as a man that I am petty and fragile in a way that is underreported.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Men seem to be like practical and non emotional and stuff. I'm just wondering, when you're dating men, men Are there tropes I'm not aware of? Like, there's stuff in. In. In the male, female community that a guy would be, like, on the lookout for or whatever. But I'm. I'm just wondering, like, do you see the classic layouts, like, oh, this person's more into me than I'm into them. Or. Or I'm. Oh, I didn't mean to, but I'm hurting them. Or like, oh, whoops, they're. I. I'm just not that into you. Like, are. Are.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Is the fragility at play up for me is I'm at an age where I feel pretty well versed in most of it. And so when I'm engaging in a relationship or in a new relationship lately, I've been comforted at how I'm like, I know I basically know my way around these.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, really? Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I'll be like, okay, okay. Even, like, even identifying with a. With a level of dryness if they're not as into it as you are and just going, okay, so. So I could keep sort of trying to stick it out and see, you know, maybe that's just their way of expressing themselves. But I don't know. I. What I think is that the dream of being relatively emotionally mature is that you don't. You don't have this burning need for someone else to complete you. And I feel somewhere close to that.

[Pete Holmes]

That's good. And of course, that's not gay or straight. You're right to put it to your age. It's just like a certain point.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And I've been in a lot of relationships. Relationships.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm sorry again, I'm bringing up looking for friends. Male friends.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You were talking about that.

[Pete Holmes]

Exactly the same as.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Being looking for a dating partner. It's exactly. I can't. I go home to Valerie and I go, like, I've made this joke on the pod before. Forgive me, but I'm like, a good man's hard to find. It's hard to find a good guy.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

But the problem is, I mean, having just been in a relationship for years.

[Pete Holmes]

Years.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

The problem is your primary partner. Your partner is so satisfying to so much of your socializing needs.

[Pete Holmes]

I know.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

So what I found was that my friendships had dwindled, but not necessarily in a bad way, but because it was so fun to go to Japan with this buddy.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I had all the time, you know.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. No, I hear that. And what? Valerie. I hear Valerie's voice and my therapist.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Because you reach out to friends when you're when you're what? What I will say is when you're single.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

You really start to be like, oh, and you start to reach out to friends again, just very organically. A little bit like a life rafter that, where you're like, well, I need human love and interaction.

[Pete Holmes]

And then when you get married. I believe that was mentioned in Girls. Was it where she was like, I don't want to be those girls that are friends until we get married. And then like, you realize they're just life rafts.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And then she's like, and I also just realized we're in a TV show. We're gonna stop this. She's like, actually, this is all gonna end as soon as it stops. Like as soon as the show stops existing. No, I'm just kidding. Wait, also, I did this. Wait, we have to get back to what we were saying. But a sidebar is that I did this. Lena Dunham flub. Love Lena Dunham. Dunham. Such a genius.

[Pete Holmes]

Wait, what's a flub?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I, I, I, I had an interaction. Not even an, not even a two way interaction.

[Pete Holmes]

I see.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Lena Dunham. I, from what I understand it. Well, first of all, Lena Dunham is a genius. I love her. And she, I have not read her new book and she followed me back on Tick Tock. We follow each other on Tick Tock, which is great. This is from, from, from the Queen. And, and I think that maybe she liked English teacher. I thought I'd heard that through the grapevine. And so then she made a video talking about how she likes giving advice on TikTok. And so then I watch that video and I'm like, you know, I could use some advice, especially from someone as smart as Lena Dunham. So I send her a dm, being like, hey, you know, I know you can't give advice to everybody or something. Being like, but I'd love to have lunch with you and get some advice sometime. I didn't hear back. She's on a crazy press tour or whatever.

[Pete Holmes]

Sure.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

But then my friend Peter is like, oh, that's so funny. I just read her new book. There's a, there's like a whole part about how she can't give everyone advice. Who's always asking, like, people are always asking her for advice.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh my God.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

So I like did like the exact thing. And it's also like proof that I didn't read her new book. It's like I'm really like showing my areas. I'm like, buddy, any advice?

[Pete Holmes]

She did say it. And if Lena's taught us anything. It's that people are changing moment to moment.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And you were responding to that one

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

when they wrote the book. She's great, but she's. Yeah, she's been making a lot of, like, just tiktoks, like, in her bed, which I. I relate to. Nothing more. More than that. Okay. We were talking about what. We're talking about male friendships. It's hard to find a good oh, I have. Oh, you don't need friends.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh. But my therapist and Valerie are like, there's a swath of human experience that is reserved for deep friendship. I don't believe this, by the way. You're like, this is what they tell me. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, I'm good. Val and I, we call it so stupid.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

But maybe you also like being alone more than most people. So then when you're like, well, I'm not with her and I'm not with my kid, I'm alone.

[Pete Holmes]

Alone. Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

So then you gotta pencil in one male golf game.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that's the problem. And then there's.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And then what are you gonna talk about? But you know what it also is? It's that you have a therapist.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

That's what your male buddies are supposed to. Marianne Williamson has this thing about that in her book. She's like, a little. Lot of therapy these days is what used to just be friendship. And she's sort of saying it's. I mean, I'm in. I'm in plenty of therapy, but my

[Pete Holmes]

therapist is a woman.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So that's a safe female relationship. I do have one female friend, I should admit maybe two that I would go to lunch with. I just like to exaggerate because it's way funnier.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

What's their. Their. Their straight women.

[Pete Holmes]

They're straight women.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Single.

[Pete Holmes]

No, no. They're in relationships. Okay. Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

That. That makes it.

[Pete Holmes]

That I'm also attracted to very few women. I know that sounds like such a boring thing to say, but, like, I. I am either. Like, really?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Giselle, the model Giselle.

[Pete Holmes]

It's so funny. I. I find Beyonce. Giselle. Beyonce. Like, I find, like, stunning women. I've never fantasized about them. That's not my. This sounds like I'm into pirates or something. Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I'm just only into pirates.

[Pete Holmes]

The type of pirate woman that I like, you don't see very often. Yeah. And it's like, Val. I. I think Val is, like, a real outlier. And, like, what's great about them is that they don't know that they're really somebody's cup of tea.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And that's wonderful.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And we're back to being disarmingly handsome.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Understated handsome.

[Pete Holmes]

Because I was. The really, really hot girls were the people that were bullies. Not like overt bullies, but they were like unkind, cold women.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Just like, remind me of being in junior high and I'm like, this is.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I know there is a level of hot that people can be where it's definitely not their fault, but you're like, your life has been. So the headline of your life, whether you know it or not, is that you is.

[Pete Holmes]

Let me get that for you.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Is yours is just. You're so hot. Yeah. Which is 30 Rock has that great episode about the bubble. You know that episode?

[Pete Holmes]

She's.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

She's dating Jon Hamm.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And he's like in the hot person bubble.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And so he's like bad at all these things, but he doesn't know. And he does the, the. I think the hardest I ever laughed at 30 Rock was he shows her a drawing he does of her face. And it's like the worst drawing you've ever seen.

[Pete Holmes]

I find it endlessly interesting that there are certain special effects.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That. Oh, I mentioned that about gay kissing, but like, height. I love gay kissing. I just call it kissing for me. Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

That's the only kissing I ever do. Yeah. Wait, about what? Hikes?

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, no, just how. I'll give you it as an example. I've said this before, but if you watch Shark Tank, if a heavy bodied person makes the pitch for a sweet, they're like, hey, Sharks, I have a cookie dough company. You buy a cup of cookie dough, Mark Cuban, and all of those guys will be like, how many calories is it, fatso? Like, I'm telling you, I don't think it's the most reliable phenomenon on Shark Tank. Same pitch, same product. Hot skinny girl realize it sells.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Oh. Huh.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm saying these are investors. These are. I'm not even saying it's Halo. The Halo effect. It's the Halo effect. It's tech CEOs as well. Like, it's. These are our saviors. But like, if we've watched it, there was a skinny blonde woman who had a cupcake company and it was like, you know, cupcakes filled with foie gras. It's like 2,800 calories and they're gobbling them down and they're going, sweetie, how much equity do I get for a billion dollars? The Same products. They can't look past it. This is like you with the height thing. It's like, there's certain things that. We are gorillas. We're fucking gorillas, and we don't know we're gorilla gorillas. And that's the most dangerous gorilla.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Everything we're doing about everything without realizing.

[Pete Holmes]

That's what I'm saying. Like, you pitch something and you look like who they like or they. Or who that you don't like, and it's sex. And this is why so many awful systems continue to work. But one of them is definitely a bias against heavy people. On Shark Tank, it's the most reliable.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Have you.

[Pete Holmes]

And if they're unattractive, too. I'm sorry. Like, classically unattractive. Everybody's beautiful to somebody. I'm just saying they have an eye patch and part of their face is on fire. They're just like, get out of here, freak. They're so weird. But this is why you want Jon Hamm to be like Polaroid.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I mean?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I know. Have you ever. This thing's been happening because I'm 38. Do you ever see somebody your age and you go, that's not my age, is it? Does that happen a lot?

[Pete Holmes]

Every day. Can I Please,

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Please.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm so glad you brought this up. I'm noticing because I'm 47.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

That is around 47. Grazia. I'll put 40. 43.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I'll take it. Not that great. That's good. Not that much help.

[Pete Holmes]

That's good. You'd cast me as 40 if you.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

If the.

[Pete Holmes]

If they.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

If they. If they blended. If they see anybody on grays, they

[Pete Holmes]

gotta blend them in. I don't even see.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Skin is very young.

[Pete Holmes]

Thank you, Grato. I really love this. I. Go ahead. Well, you got to check.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Well, I was just. I also brought this Korean. Have you gotten into Korean sunblock yet?

[Pete Holmes]

This is on Beef.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Is it?

[Pete Holmes]

They talk about Korean sunblock.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Do you. Do you ever put on sunblock? No, this is not an ad. Well. Oh, you never put on sunblock? No. Oh, well, then you got.

[Pete Holmes]

What? What do you think?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

The Grove. Well, I have not American sunblock you put on. And it feels greasy and it smells like sunblock.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And it's because in America, we only have these certain few ingredients approved in our sunblock. So it's become a trend now that I'm now on board with.

[Pete Holmes]

This was on the show Beef.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

When somebody tells you about it, you don't believe it, but they have ingredients approved in other countries that are not approved here that are equally good or even better at preventing the sun from, you know, this. Yeah, yeah. And so this is called Beauty of Jo.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm not trying to be funny because Koreans have very fair skin. They would be very serious about their sunblock.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Some at the. Have some of the greatest skincare in the world. So you. But this sunblock, it's like lotion you here. I should put it on for the audience. Yeah, yeah, you put it on. And I swear. Well, I'm gonna over. I'm gonna be so greasy for the next. The rest of the show though. But I'll rub it.

[Pete Holmes]

The point is that you don't get.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

But look at this. I'm gonna. I mean, hopefully this doesn't backfire. But you can literally rub it into where your eyes are.

[Pete Holmes]

What?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And it doesn't burn because whatever the ingredient is, doesn't. And this is somebody.

[Pete Holmes]

You look like Data now.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And it does. Do I? And it doesn't smell like sunblock. It doesn't. It smells like rubber. Yeah. Do I look like data?

[Pete Holmes]

No, no, you just have that, you

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

know, for a second.

[Pete Holmes]

It's kind of shiny.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That was it. That's a good call.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I've never had a mineral riff on this.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

It was covered in mica. It's a mineral. But now, I mean, I'm probably look greasy.

[Pete Holmes]

No, you look a little. But not sunblock greasy. Not sunblock greasy.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

At 38, you meet people that are your age and you can't be your age.

[Pete Holmes]

Look, I don't want to turn this into Queer Eye, but something I do admire about the community is you're keeping it tight. I mean, you'll see like a 70 year old guy and you're like, what the fuck?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I was thinking about that.

[Pete Holmes]

Did you see the 50 plus straights? Jesus Christ, Brian. Like nothing will motivate. But I actually.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Closed relationship.

[Pete Holmes]

Tell me.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I think they get older. They stay on the market even if they're married. Not all, but many gay marriages are open.

[Pete Holmes]

You got to.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

If you're on the market, you're. You're.

[Pete Holmes]

You got to.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And if you're. You're off market, you're. The house is sold.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm glad that I'm.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

You don't have to repair the leak if you don't want to. The person's not moving out of the house. That's so.

[Pete Holmes]

But I've learned that they might. So keep it tight. That's what it is.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

So Aries boot Camp is my recommendation. Then if you. If you want to get into a fitness for what, six, four? You're six four.

[Pete Holmes]

I feel like a Barry's Boot Camp is. Would destroy me. Destroy me.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

You can do. My pitch about exercise is, you can do it. I think this is my pitch almost about life. I've heard this from some.

[Pete Holmes]

By the way, you don't look crazy anymore.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Okay, good.

[Pete Holmes]

They went like this Beauty of Justin.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

You know the part where Kirsten Dunst becomes a vampire. An Interview with the Vampire. Do you remember that movie? Do you remember that? Yeah. And she gets, like, curly hair and like, sort of loses some weight.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, yeah. I just remember her saying, I want some more.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I want some more.

[Pete Holmes]

It was creepy.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Wait, what was I talking.

[Pete Holmes]

You're talking about fitness and Barry's Boot Camp and exercise in general.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Exercise in general. My pitch is. And this is my pitch also for other parts. It's like you can just do it, and you can do it as lazily market, you know, like in choreography. When you market, you don't do it full on. You could go to Barry's Bouquet Camp and just try to kind of do some of what they're saying. And then when you're on the treadmill, they'll be like, go at a five, a six, or a seven. You could do the whole thing two, two points down and go three miles an hour. Yeah. And still it's so much more than nothing.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And when they tell you to get the weights, you know they're gonna be like 25 pound weights. Or like you can get. You can get five pound weights that won't even feel like you're lifting.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And if you do that, that not only will it almost feel like nothing, but still you'll get a workout. You'll be a little stronger for the next one. And then if you kind of keep going, then you'll just build up to it and then you'll get addicted to it in my. In my experience. And then.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

So it's like when I'm. When I've had phases where I was sort of out of shape, it's like somebody told me, well, why don't you just go to the gym for five minutes and. And work out just for five minutes ago. That's the whole deal. And then after the five minutes, what happens? You want to keep going?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, of course. Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Actually, it kind of feels good, you know?

[Pete Holmes]

Know.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

But I mean, anyway, that's my only picture.

[Pete Holmes]

Preach. Preach.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

That's my Queer Eye. Your. Your outfit is Great. It is nice being an actor. You're always getting all this free. Everything that are tailored to you.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, it's great. Still sort of.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

It looks, I think that it has to be on purpose. A costumes person didn't mess up the length of the arm sleeve.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I was a day player. They didn't give a.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

They're like, I do have a lot of the short jacket.

[Pete Holmes]

Crashing clothes. Well, the character is kind of a goof. The other thing I noticed, and I'm really saying this in the spirit of helpfulness, and I would say this to a different male guest that I felt was keeping it tight. In fact, I did say it to Ryan Sickler. Val pointed out to me. So Val's your age. She's. She's younger than I am. And we just noticed that. What was cute. I hope this is the clip. What was cute in your 20s? Meaning not giving a shit. Wearing sweatpants with like one leg pulled up, shitty dirty sneakers. This isn't about money. I'm just saying like some pride in your shoes. No, like, no effort here. That's fine. It's even cool in your 20s. But if you ride that camel, it's bad past 50.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

You'll be like a red faced alcoholic.

[Pete Holmes]

And guys don't know. I'm not saying I'm the crispest person, but somebody at some point had to say, trim your nose hairs. Somebody at some point had to say trim your eyebrows, your ear hairs. Somebody used to say, don't get a haircut. Just, I actually need one. But like just get a cleanup.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I, those are my tips. But like, I also just like, it doesn't have to be designer shit, but I watch guys my age wear a pair of pants.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Pants.

[Pete Holmes]

30 years past, those pants being pantsable. Yeah, like, like I, I've said this before, but shoes that look like collapsed souffles. You can see the number of toes in the shoe. Yeah. Like, we need to update like men, and I'm gonna throw this to you. But I really feel like men and women, but I, I look at men and I go, we have the potential to be yeasty in a way that, that no other group can.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, I guess so are you saying

[Pete Holmes]

like women can too?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

No, no. What comes to mind for me is that as a gay guy, I find men attractive. And maybe this is the same for women, but I, I find those very things attractive.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, like unkempt.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Like bo.

[Pete Holmes]

And I don't mind bo.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Well, I guess I don't mind BO on on Monday.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Lover. Yeah, exactly. I am.

[Pete Holmes]

In fact, you should like how your partner smells.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

That's a big.

[Pete Holmes]

That's a big thing.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I mean, I guess I don't like somebody who's like disgusting and, and crazy.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I, I feel you being polite to me. Go ahead and make the counterpoint. There is a way to be sexy. Sort of like Walken Phoenix when he went through that phase.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Notice I noticed something where there are men that are like, like doing too much to their like. So at the extreme you see the other side though. Oh yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You're at those parties at the extreme

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

there are gay guys. More power to them if they like how it looks. But there are gay guys that get lip filler. And I'm like, cut it out. I'm just like, who is asking for this? Or yeah, I guess I'm sort of like, whose eye is this for? But maybe it's just for their own eye.

[Pete Holmes]

Queer Eye for my own eye.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. But I'm like, I've never been looking for Big Voluptu because I, I guess like I, I don't know, there's so many guys I think are hot with fully thin lips, you know?

[Pete Holmes]

Sure.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Or thick lips or whatever.

[Pete Holmes]

But it's like Gosling's a thin lipped, isn't he?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. Very common to have great looking guys with thin lips.

[Pete Holmes]

But yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Anyway. Oh, that's R.a.m. d us.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, there he is.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's funny that you said that cuz

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I was like, oh, we're almost out of time. I know. I. I do need to pee. Let me pee so that we don't

[Pete Holmes]

feel like pee one more time, Russ. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't mean to take ownership of you doing that. I approve of you peeing. Speaking of which, Val texted me. I checked my text and she was like, tell your boyfriend. So she called you my boyfriend, cuz. Which is funny because I do get talent. Non sexual talent Crusher. Where I was like, so she's teasing me. But then she also has a crush on you and she said, what are you, 8020 for Val. Like there's the episode are you 8020?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

No, no, but for Val, sure. Yeah, exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. That. We had a scoop. That's a line from the show 8020 gay by which is one of my favorite.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

It's like beef fat when you buy like a ground beef.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. Lean fat.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, Yeah. A lot of things are 82. There's a lot that. That gets used a lot lot, isn't it?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, for sure. 80, 20, 20.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And what are the chances that it just perfectly adds up? 60, 40, 200. You know what I mean? Like, everything is intense.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

What are the odds that 80 and

[Pete Holmes]

20 would add up to.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Add up to a 100?

[Pete Holmes]

We do seem to share. Maybe it's because of our love of authenticity. And I. I would argue that it is, but I do. I keep it to myself. But I. Well, Val gets all of it and some of my closer friends. But when I think somebody's gay and they're not gay. Why is this the most interesting thing in the world?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

It interests everybody, right?

[Pete Holmes]

I guess.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Well, it's like you were saying that movies about people coming out are so interesting.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

You're in that movie. You're like, so you're gonna come out. What's the situation?

[Pete Holmes]

But I also grew up in the Christian world, and a lot of the gayest men you've ever met are now married with children. And, like, so I sort of do. Developed in. Not an intolerance, anybody. You can live whatever.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Rigid intolerance.

[Pete Holmes]

But some of them did come out, and it was like a mitzvah. It was like the biggest joy that you were like, oh, my God, we all knew you were gay.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I know, I know. It's such a mess, though. You're like, you could have done this sooner. I know, but they were so pressured not to. I know. There was a guy that used to cut my mom's hair when I was growing up. Up. And he was just, like, gay this way. That was unmistakable. And he had blonde, you know, and he just talk like this. And he was Southern, and he was always telling all the gossip. And on the picture, there was the. On the counter, there was a picture of his wife and both of his kids.

[Pete Holmes]

Zach Galanekis's character, right?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. What does he do? He did that in politician.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that was a thing he did in other.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That's just caffeine.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

But the way is it.

[Pete Holmes]

You can have it as a sobe.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Is it.

[Pete Holmes]

What's adaptogens? Like lion's mane and stuff. And it's nootropics.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I know. I'm all. What I do is sometimes I type in all the, like, ashwagandha.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm always like, ashwagandha is a adaptogen. I believe it's a.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

What the hell's an adaptogen root there?

[Pete Holmes]

It's just a fancy word for things that calm you down.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

My. My funny story about this is I was on set for this new RuPaul movie that you should go watch in theater called Stop that Train. And Natasha Legro. Is that how you say your last name?

[Pete Holmes]

Lero.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Lero.

[Pete Holmes]

Natasha sounds like I am saying this just because it's you. It sounds like it is Legro, but she's a gay man, so she says it's actually Legro. I worked with a Giovani when I was a waiter. I was like, you're Gio.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Like.

[Pete Holmes]

But I. I respect it.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

There's. There's these. I know somebody now named John Luca.

[Pete Holmes]

Have you ever met somebody John Luca? Yeah, Usually a thing that was very popular in my mind in the early 2000s, which is the triple name gay.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That was like. Every gay was a trip.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. Maybe that was secretly a coming soft coming out. I.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that's. Look, we've talked a lot of gay theory here, but there are ways that you want to tell people you're gay. So you'd be like, well, I. I'm. I'm thinking. My dear friend Brent James Sullivan. He stopped.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

But like, what is it now? He stopped me again.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, well, I assume because he dropped the James Th.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

This magic mind. Any. This is maybe a non story. I don't know. But I was on. I was in the makeup trailer for Stop that Train in theaters now, and Natasha Leggero is like in the seat next to me and I'm like, I need more coffee or something. It was like a commercial. And she's like, have you tried Magic Mind?

[Pete Holmes]

Because I gave it to.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Exactly. And then I'm like, like buying it. I'm like, that sounds really great. And then I'm like, wait a minute. This is like Spawn Con. That's like hitting me from a podcast. You were. Or from. She's like, well, Pete Holmes.

[Pete Holmes]

And then.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And then she's like, well, yeah, he kind of owns the com. Or he's like, is invested in the company.

[Pete Holmes]

I like the rumor that I own the company.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Gosh, I was buying this.

[Pete Holmes]

But it's true. We did a movie together and I would give it to her.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, no, but then she did. Love it. Love it. It's organic viral marketing.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I know.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Maybe I'll try it. Maybe. Maybe I'll try it. I just need to type in all these ingredients.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, yeah, if you want it, I'll have them send you some. Who cares? Well, we are almost out of time.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Just because I. I should have. This was too.

[Pete Holmes]

I should have not booked another thing after this. Oh, that's dumb, dummy.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Maybe we'll do it another time.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, we will. Yeah, I would love it.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

This is great.

[Pete Holmes]

What is the question?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Parting thoughts.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, we didn't talk about God at all, and. Oh, yeah, it's silly to maybe tack

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

it on so much. I can talk about God fast. Yeah, go ahead.

[Pete Holmes]

Do a quick God.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Okay, wait. I'm talking to my friend yesterday. This is the God piece. I'm talking to my friend yesterday.

[Pete Holmes]

God piece.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Who was it? This is the cod piece. Yeah, I'll say this. My friend left his church many years ago, and his life got a lot better because he was believing a lot of things that made him feel a lot of shame around being gay and stuff. And so that's great. But this is all to say he. He said, like, yeah, so I don't. You know, I don't believe any of that anymore. And I was like, well, are you spiritual now? Do you have a spiritual practice? Do you have a relationship to God now? And he just goes, no. And I found it really impressive. Yeah. And I know of at least one. I know one really famous drag queen who similarly is just like, no, I just don't believe in God, and I don't really have a spiritual whatever. And what's unique, in my opinion is he and this drag queen are both extremely successful, ambitious people. And so. So I don't really know how to express this, but there is, like, a fear, you know, fear of God. Almost like a trembling, uneasy feeling I get when I think about what it must feel like to think that this is all there is. To be like, it's just this. It's just this. And it's you and me, and I'm gonna get it.

[Pete Holmes]

The clock's running. The clock is running.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, the clock is running. I'm gonna get in my car. I probably won't get in a car wreck, but maybe I will. And maybe I have to have some unifying theory of. And maybe it's. What's funny is it's. Maybe it's the same arrival point, but I'm going. I very much hope I don't get in a car wreck. I believe that God or the universe or life or whatever, my spiritual feeling that something is protecting me and that probably I'll be okay. And then if that does happen, it's part of the system of lessons I need to learn and the. The. The. The thing we're all here to experience. And I just. I just think, wow, if you think this is all there is, I don't know what that would feel, but I basically. I think it would feel depressing. So my. My Other thought, just since I'm talking about God fast. My other thoughts are like. What I think though is I. I've long thought maybe for 10 or 20 years because I was very spiritual even in high school. And I would read a lot of like, what is it? Sufi poet. If I don't know what it's called, obviously. Yeah. Rumi. And you know, out. What's it called? So I have often thought, well, faith works.

[Pete Holmes]

Whether.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Whether or not you're right about what you're having faith in. We seem to know that if you sort of believe that something is taking care of you, that you're more likely to be taken care of. Right. So I sometimes think, well, even. It's like on a practical level, God could even. You could just be talking about all of this and everything extending in every direction and the vibrations of me. And if I pray to God, even if I'm praying to all that, and then that has a positive effect because I'm praying to my own subconscious thoughts and the literal vibrations and whatever. If that works, then it's. It's all the same thing. Which. Which brings me to. I just love that thing you say about like. Okay, so you think nothing created all this and then we return to nothing. So you're returning to your creator.

[Pete Holmes]

Right, Right.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

It's like it's.

[Pete Holmes]

You just summarize that really well.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, it's. It's good to. To. To. To let it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

You. You can see the ways in which it's all a wash, you know.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that's why you are believing. Believing in nothing is believing in something. And I'm not saying that to be like. Gotcha.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

There's actually. I think the way that people behave. Belies be.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Lies is. Yeah. I never am still sure how that's used.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't know. I was.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Apparently it's often used as the opp. Opposite of let's look it up.

[Pete Holmes]

I think it speaks to an unconscious faith in a bigger picture.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

This is what it is. We think belies means reveals, but it actually means conceal.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, that was on my card. You. You're interested in people talking wrong.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That's the things we're looking to.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Third person singular. Oh yeah. Form of the verb belie. It means to contradict, misrepresent, or give a false impression of something. Something.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, I. Then maybe am I using it to misrepresent? I'm saying like if you look at

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

the way people disguise something.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay. Because I thought that was true when I was in the church. I was like, I think the way you're acting, I don't necessarily believe that you think everyone who doesn't believe what you believe is going to hell. I didn't really feel. And that was actually a relief. I didn't feel that urgency and that

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I was like, oh, it's almost like we all secretly know this is a metaphor. And if you need. If some of you, even if you

[Pete Holmes]

don't know it here, here somewhere in your being, you know everything's okay.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That it's going to work out. So it doesn't really matter what you believe.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Whatever it takes to get to that. And so my friends who don't say they don't believe in anything, I'm like, I hope you think it's all going to be okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Because I have to.

[Pete Holmes]

I think he made that point well because I had Dr. Drew on the podcast, and he was like, I've been with a lot of people when they're dying. And he's like, the people that believed in something. It's weird to want to have a good death, but, like, did a lot, lot better. I know that's a weird thing.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And I think about that practically, too. I go, if something did all this.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And brought me to this point, whatever that is, even if it just. Even if it just is the series of magical events, that same thing is obviously going to take me off into death correctly.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

You know, I've actually said that about my show being canceled, which is a deeper cut for me right now in my life. My TV show got canceled after two seasons. Seasons. And a lot of fans want me to. To try to get it back on the air. And even friends will be like, can't you, you know, try to get it picked up somewhere? And we did.

[Pete Holmes]

We.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

We tried to get it picked up some other places, and it didn't work and whatever. But. But I could still. Whatever I could try to. To do more to rescue it or something. I probably. It's not possible. I'm not speaking ill of it getting canceled or whatever. I think it's. It was. It's just a numbers thing, you know, and I understand that, but what I. Yeah, what I say. Nope.

[Pete Holmes]

That played well.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm like your press person. I like that.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah. I understand that getting canceled is just a numbers thing, but what I say sometimes to a friend who's like, oh, your show got canceled. It's a little bit like something Ram Dass says that I'll say next. But it's like, oh, your show Got canceled. That's such a bummer. You know, I wish there was some way to get it back. And I. I say, like. Like, if everything happened right, to get that show to happen, this magical show, that in my heart, I sort of knew I was going to make my whole life. And that you have this real connection to where I'm like, it is that good?

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

That is what I meant to make. How could it be wrong that then it got canceled after two. The same guiding principle is taking me to whatever I'm meant to do next.

[Pete Holmes]

Why are we only trusting it when it's, like, in our favor?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah, exactly. Oh, I love that. That's good, right? And that's faith.

[Pete Holmes]

That's.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Ram Dass had this. You maybe you've heard this.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm just kidding.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I'm kidding.

[Pete Holmes]

I hate that you believed me. Go, please.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Rom. Das was talking to Oprah. You've probably heard the talk. But he had this stroke, and he was talking to Oprah after the stroke, and he was like, people were asking me after my stroke, are you. Are you sad you got a stroke? Are you having a hard time? You got a stroke? And I. I said, no, I'm.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I'm sad because I lost my faith. I can't find my faith. And then he found it again, and he was like.

[Pete Holmes]

And then I was fine, right?

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Like that. So I. I had a similar thing with getting my show canceled, where I was when I found my faith again in that and going. And even this.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

And even this is right. And it's like.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, it's funny because in be here now, around us, I think about it all the time. He goes, fame, shame, gain, loss, pleasure, pain. And he goes, same.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And it took him.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

What does he say? Suffering is great.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes, suffering is great. He also says when you withstand something that you didn't think you could. A loss or whatever. He goes, well, then you must not be who you thought you were. Whoa.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

You're stronger.

[Pete Holmes]

Right? And you were always that stronger. You just didn't know. And then. Yeah, I love. This is a great way. I do have to. Ending. Good ending. We hit a lot of good peaks here.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

This is awesome.

[Pete Holmes]

I hope I wasn't too excited to talk. I was very excited.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Are you kidding? This is the most fun I've had in months.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, I'm so glad.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

I'm so grateful.

[Pete Holmes]

I've been plugging English teacher like crazy. Maybe we'll have Sean on, too. He's so.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Yes, yes. Watch it on Hulu.

[Pete Holmes]

English teacher on Hulu on Hulu. And would you say, keep it crispy? It's just how we end. It's how we sign off.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Keep it crispy.

[Pete Holmes]

You did it.

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

Oh, I loved every moment. You made it weird. Yes, you did.

[Pete Holmes]

Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment

[Brian Jordan Alvarez]

of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for a 12 month plan. Required $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees. Extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. Me slow when network is busy.

[Pete Holmes]

See terms.