Chloe Radcliffe

Summary

Podcast Summary: "You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes"

Guest: Chloe Radcliffe
Date: April 22, 2026
Duration Covered: [00:00–1:52:00]
Theme: Secret weirdness, honesty, self-worth, stand-up comedy, and the messy overlap of comedy and real life (plus deep dives into relationships, cheating, writing, and the search for meaning).

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Episode Overview

This episode features comedian and writer Chloe Radcliffe (Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon, solo show "Cheat") in an open and hilarious conversation with Pete Holmes. Their wide-ranging talk veers from late-night TV drama and COVID-era comedy to radical honesty about cheating, self-esteem issues, and the existential questions underneath it all. True to the podcast’s ethos, both comics are candid—and weird—about their vulnerabilities, mistakes, and secret inner drives.

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Table of Contents

• Late Night, Fallon & Comedy Industry Drama (03:00–17:00)
• COVID, Open-Air Stand-Up, and Finding the Funny Under Trees (09:02–11:42)
• Cheese Pizza, Persona, & The ‘Middle of the Road’ Comedian (13:05–17:28)
• Chloe’s One-Person Show "Cheat", Relationship Compulsions, & Cheating Confessions (31:13–40:30)
• Why Cheating is Hot: Psychology, Self-Worth & Edging Metaphors (46:14–54:20)
• Body Image, Birthmarks, and Seeking Validation (53:34–58:00)
• The Addictive Thrill of Comedy vs. Cheating (62:06–65:13)
• Crafting Comedy, Writing Process & Mushroom-Assisted Screenwriting (79:41–90:03)
• Family, Meaning of Life, & Hippie Philosophy (93:23–97:38)
• Synchronicity and Premonition (102:00–110:59)
• Notable Quotes & Moments
• Chloe’s Plugs & Finale

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Late Night, Fallon & Comedy Industry Drama (03:00–17:00)

• Pete & Chloe start with comedy shop talk, referencing Chloe’s writing for The Tonight Show and the behind-the-scenes tension during “boozegate” and the blackface controversy involving Jimmy Fallon ([03:03–06:53])
• Chloe: “We were embargoed from talking about this while I was involved... now I'm like, I don't know if there's a way for me to say it and keep it anonymous.” (05:10)
• They discuss the surreal environment in 2020 as social protests exploded, with pressure for public figures (like Jimmy Fallon) to be seen at protests, yet told not to be public about it.
• Chloe relays how Fallon prioritized likability and being “cheese pizza”—the safest, least objectionable—but reflects on the impossibility of pleasing everyone.

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COVID, Open-Air Stand-Up, and Finding the Funny Under Trees (09:02–11:42)

• Chloe describes summer 2020 in NYC: doing five outdoor sets a night, yelling raunchy jokes under park trees, feeling a revived connection to live performance after lockdown.
• Memorable image: “For the first couple months, we didn't even have karaoke mics... just standing like a revivalist preacher under a tree, and people are sitting in the grass, attentive. So happy to be there.” (09:46)
• Discuss projection, crowd work, and how outdoor gigs taught Chloe to be a better 'technician' in standup (11:16).

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Cheese Pizza, Persona, & The ‘Middle of the Road’ Comedian (13:05–17:28)

• Pete introduces the metaphor: “He's trying to be cheese pizza. And I. Cheese pizza is my favorite pizza. And that's not saying bland or boring...” (14:05)
• They riff on late-night host personas: Fallon avoids controversy (“cheese pizza”) while Kimmel “lets you know how he feels”.
• Chloe relates Fallon’s avoidance of controversy to his sensitivity after the infamous Trump interview and tousled hair moment.

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Chloe’s One-Person Show "Cheat", Relationship Compulsions, & Cheating Confessions (31:13–40:30)

• Chloe is candid about her history of cheating, which is central to her one-woman show, "Cheat".
• Notable moment: “I have cheated in almost every relationship I've ever been in and I have a solo show about it...” (32:41)
• Pete probes why people cheat, noting society's judgment—especially for women—and how most pop culture depictions favor empathy for male cheaters, but not women.
• Chloe: “We have more empathy on screen for serial killers than for people who cheat.” (34:31)
• Both riff on how cheating is often a way to avoid having “the talk” and the pain of breaking up. Chloe asserts her show is honest about the pain and the damage cheating does, but tries to open up the conversation about why so many people do it in secret.

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Why Cheating is Hot: Psychology, Self-Worth & Edging Metaphors (46:14–54:20)

• Pete and Chloe examine why cheating is so sexually charged—even though both say they're “anti-cheat.”
• Chloe, on the appeal: “Cheating eliminates all three of [the things that make sex less good]: you're paying attention, you're going so slow, and you're out of your head because you're focusing on the line you're not supposed to cross.” (49:32)
• They joke about “edging” and the thrill of breaking rules, connecting it to the rush of live comedy.
• Chloe candidly connects her sexuality, self-worth, and issues around desirability, birthmarks, and body image.

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Body Image, Birthmarks, and Seeking Validation (53:34–58:00)

• Chloe opens up about growing up with a visible birthmark and never fitting into “normal” beauty, leading to a search for external proof of worth through sexual attention.
• “I discovered men will [sleep with] a person with a birthmark on their face. And when I discovered that I was like, oh, my God, I can tap that as a way of proving to myself that I am loved.” (56:39)
• Pete relates with his own insecurities and how everyone carries some “bruise inside of them that has made them do fucked up things.” (60:15)

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The Addictive Thrill of Comedy vs. Cheating (62:06–65:13)

• Both discuss how the validation of comedy is “addictive” in the same way some find transgressive sex addictive.
• Pete: “I think doing a good stand up set is probably much closer to the female orgasm than the male orgasm.” (65:07)
• Chloe agrees: “You have to be paying attention. You have to ask them what they want. Each audience is different.” (66:28)

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Crafting Comedy, Writing Process & Mushroom-Assisted Screenwriting (79:41–90:03)

• Chloe recounts landing a Hollywood screenplay writing gig totally unprepared, learning structure from “How to Write a Movie in 21 Days” and rewriting the script under intense time pressure.
• In a brutally honest and funny segment, Chloe tells how doing high-stress rewrites while tripping on mushrooms led to creative breakthroughs:
  • “I spent the next two weeks tripping five out of seven days a week and writing. And I really completely rewrote the movie.” (88:01)
• Pete and Chloe muse on the magic of being “first” (first on YouTube, Netflix) and how luck and timing amplify talent.

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Family, Meaning of Life, & Hippie Philosophy (93:23–97:38)

• Chloe describes her deeply hippie, transcendental meditation-practicing parents, including psychics, past lives, and the worldview that “a soul is on the earth to learn lessons.”
• Chloe: “The worldview that I was raised in and that I still ascribe to is that a soul is on the earth to learn a lesson, to learn lessons... when you learn all your lessons, you rejoin with the divine.” (95:03)
• Pete, excited by kindred spirit, riffs about oneness and the play (Lila/Leela) of existence.

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Synchronicity and Premonition (102:00–110:59)

• Chloe shares an extraordinary story about feeling a premonition she’d see her ex—a volatile relationship—ending up staring at him through a window across from a cast party at the exact moment for the last possible time.
• Chloe: “It really felt like, you know, me on the grid was—It’s gonna happen tonight.” (109:36)
• She describes the interconnectedness of all things and how these moments affirm her belief in meaning and connection versus pure coincidence.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the paradox of modern late night TV:

• Pete: “He’s trying to be cheese pizza... the thing you could have a room full of hungry... every side of every political spectrum. You order 50 cheese pizzas, everyone's in love.” (14:07)

On empathy and infidelity:

• Chloe: “We have more empathy on screen for serial killers than we do for people who cheat.” (35:02)

On why cheating is so sexualized:

• Chloe: “Cheating eliminates all three [of the blocks to sexual enjoyment] in one fell swoop. You're paying attention. You’re going so slow. And you’re so out of your head… because you’re focused on the line you’re not supposed to cross.” (49:38)

On healing old wounds:

• Pete: “There was a wound and then you filled the hole with... the approval that you weren't getting.”
• Chloe (deadpan): “And sometimes fingers.” (58:31–58:33)

On comedy as a stand-in for “cheating energy”:

• Chloe: “[With more comedy success] my impulse to cheat has plummeted, has gone, like, right through the floor.” (62:32)
• Pete: “I think doing a good stand up set is probably much closer to the female orgasm than the male orgasm.” (65:07)

On life and connection:

• Chloe: “The belief in the presence of a divine is the exact inverse of the belief in pure coincidence.” (99:47)

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Chloe’s Plugs & Finale

• Pete gives Chloe space to plug anything she wants.
• Chloe’s solo show “Cheat” continues in New York and L.A.; details on her socials.
• Pete and Chloe close with playful banter about “keep it crispy” and their oddball, filthy turn (“If it's moving, it's not grooving!”)
• Both marvel at the honesty, strangeness, and “aliveness” of the conversation.

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Overall Tone & Style Notes

The tone is intimate, digressive, hilariously candid, sometimes raunchy, and peppered with meta-awareness. Pete gently encourages Chloe’s honesty and brings his own mix of irreverence and big-hearted self-deprecation. Chloe is game for deep authenticity, nimble riffing, and the raw, messy “weirdness” that makes for great podcast listening. If you miss the days when podcasts felt like secret, uncensored conversations, this episode fits the bill.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Fallon/Blackface Debate: [03:00–08:42]
• COVID Park Comedy: [09:02–11:42]
• Persona/Risk Aversion in Late Night: [13:05–17:28]
• Cheating & Self-Awareness: [31:13–40:30]
• Sexual Psychology of Cheating: [46:14–54:20]
• Addiction, Comedy & Self-Esteem: [62:06–65:13]
• Mushrooms & Writing Process: [79:41–90:03]
• Meaning of Life/Family Philosophy: [93:23–97:38]
• Synchronicity Story: [102:00–110:59]

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This summary captures every key topic, notable moment, and the original energy of Pete and Chloe’s conversation.

Transcript

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Lemonade.

[Pete Holmes]

You made it weird with Pete Holmes. What's happening, weirdos?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Welcome to the show.

[Pete Holmes]

This is Chloe Radcliffe who is amazing and and hilarious and a delight. She was a staff writer on the Tonight show with Jimmy Fallon. Both Variety and Deadline named her a comedian. You should and will know and I'm so glad you are here to listen to our conversation. It is wonderful. She is wonderful. I'm so glad that you decided to join us today. Not too much to plug up top. I got some tour dates but first I'm going to talk about my kids book. I'm holding it right here. If you're on the video, this is spells to cast on your parents. Look at that sheen though. Look at that shine. Spells to cast on your parents is a book that empowers your kid to cast spells on you as you read them. A book that's pretty much all you need to know. It's protected by a little dragon. That's all you need to know. Don't you want to read it? Don't you want to read it to a kid or a loved one? Get into it. Go to wherever you get your podcasts and listen to a podcast while you buy that book on pre order. And I am also on the road. Thank you to everybody that came out to Dallas. Those were so amazing. And my next tour dates are Largo here in Los Angeles. I'm going to Aspen. I'm going to Denver. My website's new. Oh, that's cool. North Carolina, South Carolina, Sacramento, Vancouver, oh, San Luis Obispo, St. Louis. Obispo. I just say St. Louis. Obispo, Madison, Wisconsin, Seattle, Portland and San Diego are all available on peteholmes.com hope to see you out there. And I think that's it. Do I plug anything else? Oh yeah, my special, my Special is on YouTube. It's called silly, Silly fun boy. It's free. Check it out. Just type in Pete Holmes on YouTube. It'll probably be the first thing that comes up. So many people are watching it. It makes me so happy. I'm so proud of it. Hope you like it. Silly Silly Fun boy on you. On YouTube. On YouTube. In the meantime, enjoy the wonderful Chloe Radcliffe. So glad you're here. Get into it. Amazon Health AI presents painful thoughts.

[Julie Louis-Dreyfus]

Why did I search the Internet for answers to my cold sore problem?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Now I'm stuck down a rabbit hole filled with images of alarmingly graphic sores

[Julie Louis-Dreyfus]

in various stages of ooze.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I can clear my search history, but I can never unsee that.

[Pete Holmes]

Don't go down the Rabbit hole. Amazon health. AI gets you the right care fast. Healthcare just got less painful. You're so welcome, Chloe. Thank you for doing the show.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I didn't say thank you, Pete. No, thank you for having me. Wait, what do you mean you said, you're so welcome?

[Pete Holmes]

You know, in Africa. Sorry to start political.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

No, let's hear this.

[Pete Holmes]

In Africa. Because I went to Africa when I was 17 to build a house and tell about the Lord. But they already knew.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Such a good Christian boy.

[Pete Holmes]

They knew. They were well versed in the Lord.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So there wasn't a lot of. Because it was a mission trip.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

But they were like, can you make the house a little higher?

[Pete Holmes]

Totally. We got it. He was a carpenter. Wow.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

This beam.

[Pete Holmes]

This beam needs to be exposed. They were way ahead on the exposed beam trend. But they say, you're welcome when you walk in a room. And that's like, one of the first things they let us know. They were like, just so you know, everyone's gonna be saying, you're welcome, you're welcome. It's gonna be really weird.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Cool.

[Pete Holmes]

But they mean it in the literal way.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

You are welcome.

[Pete Holmes]

That's how I meant it to you.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

That's very cool. That's very welcome.

[Pete Holmes]

So Uganda in the house. Uganda. Keep doing that.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Uganda.

[Pete Holmes]

Uganda.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Am I going to keep doing it?

[Pete Holmes]

Uganda. Uganda.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Uganda.

[Pete Holmes]

People say Kampala is the capital of Uganda. There's a way to be like, get Kampala in the mix. Kampala. Uganda?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. Did you vote for Kampala? I would have voted for Kampala.

[Pete Holmes]

3. 3.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

3 what? The episodes.

[Pete Holmes]

Kamala's going to kamp. Wow. Say what? What'd you say?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I called elections episodes. That's how I'm. I'm too Hollywood brained.

[Pete Holmes]

What season. What season are we on? Trump's second season.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. You know, the nice thing about the Brits is that they cut things off after two seasons and they just let it die. And we're like, how can we get. How can we get 30 seasons out of this?

[Pete Holmes]

The King people have short TV seasons. The long TV seasons people have short. Have tons and tons of seasons of tv.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Tons and tons of.

[Pete Holmes]

So if we have. When people are saying no kings, they mean, like, shorter seasons of shows. That's how out of touch I am. That's what it means. Right.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Look, I support the no kings protest, and I also support letting a TV show only have one season.

[Pete Holmes]

And I think you can't. You have to pick one of those. This is a real Feet to the Fire podcast I was at.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I have no idea If I, I, I want, I want to tell you this. And then I'm like, we were so, we were like, embargoed from talking about this while I was involved. And so now I'm like, I don't know if there's a way for me to say it and keep it anonymous.

[Pete Holmes]

Embargoed.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I, I'll tell, I'll. Can I say it and if we need to cut it. Okay. I worked at the, I wrote at the Tonight Show. Uh huh. I worked there for Booze gate. All of 2020, booze was happening, but it wasn't boozegate. It was blackface.

[Pete Holmes]

Is that what we call it? Boozegate? Chris Rock.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

This definitely has to be cut. This is. I'm like, really? Well, Boozgate. I don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't know what booze, like, people know about Boozgate. That was in the Times.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I didn't know that it was a.

[Pete Holmes]

Maybe it's uncaring to call it boozegate because people have addictions.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

God, I'm really like, but this is great.

[Pete Holmes]

We're like, alive.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Oh, no.

[Pete Holmes]

Didn't we just go from like, doing a podcast and now there's like, electricity.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Oh, no.

[Pete Holmes]

Jim Gavigan has a great joke where he goes, alcoholism is the only disease you can get mad at someone for having.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And. And that's such a perfect line. Yeah. So I'm gonna walk back. Maybe we keep it that. I called it booze gay.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

You worked there when that story about Jimmy, maybe.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I worked there.

[Pete Holmes]

I worked there for all of 2020 cooking that.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

No. So. No, no, no. That story was not, that was not my defining experience.

[Pete Holmes]

What was your defining. Oh, Chris Rock face.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Chris Rock. And then the next day, George Floyd got killed and we.

[Pete Holmes]

What? Wait, what?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Summer 2020?

[Pete Holmes]

Because George Floyd was not murdered when that Chris Rock sketch.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

No, no, no. But, but Jimmy's story broke. What story broke about the Chris or, or the, like the. It. Sorry.

[Pete Holmes]

The Internet became interesting.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Internet got mad at Jimmy the Saturday before George Floyd got murdered.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And so that week after was this, like, I mean, it was an insane week.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And we. I've really backed myself into a corner on this story. Okay. So the whole, I mean, like, I

[Pete Holmes]

will say, all kidding aside, we'll take out anything you want.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Great. God bless your episode. Thank you. Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

There's no, like, clip it.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

We'll see, we'll see, we'll see.

[Pete Holmes]

But I also say, as someone who sometimes says things that I don't know if I can say. Yes, it is very interesting all of a sudden.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes, of course.

[Pete Holmes]

Not that you're not even beholden to be interesting, but I do like this. It's very.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Okay, so I'm going to tell the story. I'm going to tell you very alive. Okay, so we're so. The week after. The week after, like, that first week after George Floyd is killed. I mean, it's insane, the whole. Where people are scrambling, like, how do we handle a comedy show? Very stressful. Did as best as we could. We are all going out to protests, you know, every night, every weekend, whatever. And a couple weeks in, it didn't. It felt like a long time, but in retrospect, I think it wasn't very long after George Floyd was killed. We were all sort of like, I wonder if Jimmy's going to go to a protest or not. And as far as I know, he had not gone at that point. And then we got an email or, like, chatter went around or something where it was like, jimmy's gonna go to a protest. He's gonna go to this Saturday's, you know, noon in Union Square or whatever it was. Please do not talk about this publicly. And I frankly. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Are we masked up at this point?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Ma, we knew that outside, that you didn't have to be masked outside. I think at this point, we knew.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay. I think that's real. I'm still waiting for the definitive Covid

[Chloe Radcliffe]

document, whether or not you can.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I mean? Well, that was the thing. I think you're younger than me, so I think you guys believed that you could go outside without a mask.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Oh, funny.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't think my generation ever got that update.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Really?

[Pete Holmes]

No. That's stupid.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

That's crazy. That's so funny.

[Pete Holmes]

Why? If somebody has Covid and they. They're spitting at you, it's.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

It's basically that you're reducing the chances.

[Pete Holmes]

I see that we agree on such

[Chloe Radcliffe]

a low amount that it's worth that it's worth taking the mask.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. Also. Okay, you see why I break that up into groups? I'm like, you guys are young, you're dating, you're going out, you're having fun. We're just. We're inside.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Anyway, summer of 2020 was the first time I ever did five spots in a night. Because the park shows in New York were so. Oh, alive. And everybody was running something on a roof or in a backyard or in a park, and it would be like, literally, like, meet under the big tree in Sheep Meadow in Central park for a show. I mean, it Was so. And then you would stand under this giant tre. And you felt in for the first couple of months.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm getting the leaf. I got to go. Stupid. I mean, stupid.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And I'm yelling like, I'm getting the bird.

[Pete Holmes]

That was worse. It was worse than leave. I'm getting the leaf.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

You're. You're running. You're running the blade of grass.

[Pete Holmes]

Sorry. I'm running the grass right now, guys. Is that a cricket playing me off like the Oscars? I'm sorry. I got to go.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

It's. I mean. And I'm there, like, yelling come jokes.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

While parents. Because there were no. For the first few months, we didn't even have karaoke mics. Then. Then people started to bring karaoke mics and little PA Systems where you were just yelling. The first couple months, you're just standing like a revivalist preacher under a tree, and people are sitting in the grass, attentive. So happy to be there. So happy to just be doing anything.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And I am, like, yelling about, like.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Anyway, so he's coming on my face.

[Pete Holmes]

He came on my face.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And there's a. What's wrong with your dick?

[Pete Holmes]

A kid on somebody's children. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Okay.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Parents pushing little prams. Right? You know, what's this fun group. What's this fun activ.

[Pete Holmes]

You all about? What church are you. No, no. She tries to bat the sound of you saying that. I don't want this. Yes.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

So. Yes. Anyway. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

We were yelling the jokes. Oh, sorry. No, I. I derailed your Fallon story. But it is interesting. What an interesting time in New York. Because I, I. When I was in New York, we would do roof shows. They were. Okay, so now we're getting karaoke. That's what you're saying. We got karaoke mics, and you did five sets a night. And there was a gratitude and an urgency. Oh.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And the audiences were so happy to be there. Like, you could kill. Also, like those first few months where nobody had mics, I. I come from a live theater background, and so I am very good at projecting. And I would half the shows I was destroying because no one else could be the only one project. I was the only one who. Anybody.

[Pete Holmes]

You got a stage whisper. What are you going to. It's true.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And people could follow everywhere.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah. Thank God.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay. Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Like, if you're in a room, if you're. Sometimes you're in a room where it's so echoey even inside, even at a normal show where the audio is so echoey and that there are some people, like, you just can watch another comic performer and be like, oh, they are not thinking about.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

How their voice is being amplified.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And they're not realizing how garbled they sound.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. Which is part of your job.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, it's part of your job. Totally.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

You have to be a. You're a technician.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I. I'm guilty if they. I never thought I was a monitor comedian, but I need a monitor or I'll yell too much.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I can't hear myself.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then my opener will be like, everyone could hear you.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Just fine.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. I sometimes will ask, can you guys hear me? And I just have learned, like, if I see a big swath of people, be like, yep, you're fine. Like, not react here.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I just have to be like. You have to turn that off in your brain.

[Pete Holmes]

Love the shows where you sound booming, though, where you really feel like you're like, I could just be like this and you'll like. I love that feeling. Godlike.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes, yes. Now, why do we think we do stand up comedy?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, exactly. I listen to a set of yours where you open with like, please clap. Why do you think I'm doing this?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, I need that. Just own it.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I just want you to be like, that was a godlike performance.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And then clap. I need to feel significant.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. Please help me. Please help me. Yeah. Okay, so Jimmy Fallon. Jimmy.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

So he goes to this protest. We're. We're told to not talk about it. Here I am. I'm hoping that. Why do you want the statute of Liberty?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I.

[Pete Holmes]

They wanted it to be organic because he's gonna get. People are gonna.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

People did not really. It, like, didn't come up on socials.

[Pete Holmes]

What.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Or at least it didn't. If it did, it didn't break. We were told, do not post about it. Do not talk about it. This cannot be on your socials. It's not going to be on Jimmy's socials. I think that it is that he is so. He. He values the most, people liking him the most. And that that means that anything like, you know, he is most center of the. He is most middle of the road.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Politically.

[Pete Holmes]

I know.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

As Late Night Hosko.

[Pete Holmes]

Yep. Did it hurt his feelings? Were you there when he tousled Trump's hair?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I was not there.

[Pete Holmes]

That must have hurt his. That must have bothered.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Oh, I'm sure that. I think that. Yeah, I think. I think there was Like a period of time, the year and a half, going from on the top to not on the top. Must have been.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, did that. I don't follow that.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

That was like in there.

[Pete Holmes]

That was in the.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I think there was. I think that. I think there was a series of, like, very difficult things that happened right in a row.

[Pete Holmes]

I see.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But like, to frame it positively what Jimmy is. And I don't know him. I like him. I'm just saying, like, he. He's trying to be cheese pizza. And I. Cheese pizza is my favorite pizza.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And that's not saying bland or boring. But he's the thing. You could have a room full of hungry. Every side of every political spectrum. You order 50 cheese pizzas, everyone's in love.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Only people who don't like it are the vegans.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right. And he's not about that.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And he's fine.

[Pete Holmes]

He doesn't care.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

The one group, the one losing is the vegans.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, I am Jimmy Fallon. You vegans.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

He loves it.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Everybody else, everybody else, please like me.

[Pete Holmes]

Did he have a group? You gotta have one group. You know what I mean? That you could playfully. To give the. The late night host full expression. There needs to be somebody that he can be like. And like. Like Kimmel with Matt Damon. You need to have something.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I was gonna say, although Kimmel's got a lot.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That was a bad example.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Has some, like, earnestly held.

[Pete Holmes]

Kimmel is like, welcome to the Jimmy Kimmel show.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You will see how I feel. Yeah. And others are like, we have pizza.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And pizza's great. I said it like Birbiglia.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Pizza.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

We have pizza.

[Pete Holmes]

Me. And he's. I think he hangs out with Jim.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

He's like, me and Valerie, we're on a boat.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

This is a good.

[Pete Holmes]

It is. It's very good. If you.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

If, you know, I heard you.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, of course. Endlessly. I mean, the pizza boat speeds up. Cheese hits his wife in the face.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Really good. I'm like, I'm not riffing. I'm just sort of watching a little show here.

[Pete Holmes]

I think I was the only one to pick up on how he's trying not to wake you. You know what I mean?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

He's like.

[Pete Holmes]

And what happened?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

You know, Trying not to wake the person in the seat next to him.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. He's one of my favorites. People are like, don't be. Yes. I'm gonna let you rest.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But. Yes. Okay. So Birbiglia aside, he's in hot water. He goes to the protest.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes, he goes to the protest. And the hot water had died down a little bit. This was. This was probably a month later.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

But it just is still this incredibly tense time. And he. We're at the protest, and I was like, this is the coolest thing in the world to have Jimmy do be at this protest. Yeah. I think. I think he basically was like, everybody likes cheese pizza, but some people. There's a party that is very pro pepperoni, and there's a party that is very pro pineapple. And those two parties hate each other.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. Right.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Maybe it's a party that's pro anchovies and a party that is pro pineapple.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

On the pizza.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And those two parties hate each other. And that this was a protest that the anchovies party would not like.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. I'm tracking.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And so.

[Pete Holmes]

And he's trying to be like.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And he's trying to say, I'm cheese. I'm cheese. I'm cheese. I'm cheese. I'm cheese.

[Pete Holmes]

But I'm cheese. But maybe one slice has a little pineapple on it.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Or actually, more accurately, I am a cheese pizza. But I'm next to the pineapple pizza.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Just for. Just for today.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes. And I'm not. And. And look, you know what?

[Pete Holmes]

Or maybe not just for today. Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Grab a slice of the pineapple on

[Pete Holmes]

the plate, and he. You're taking two slices of cheese, and Jimmy's there, and he touches you and goes, try the pineapple.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Or don't.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. Yeah. What's funny? So. And I want to say for the record, Jimmy Fallon is one of the most talented, funny.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I agree.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Capable people I have ever been in a room with. And I don't mean capable. Like, that's the lowest. I mean, like.

[Pete Holmes]

No. Fiercely hilarious.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

So fast. So funny. Knows every reference. Like, you spend 10 seconds in a room with him, and you're like, oh, I get it all. And, like, also, does he have demons? Yeah, absolutely.

[Pete Holmes]

Clearly.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Right. Like, don't we all? Yeah, but. And. And a life that he's lived. Like, it makes sense that he would have. That you would have more demons.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

But I. Like, this is not.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I don't think. I think Katie can confirm this has been a very even great and fair with even, like, doing above and beyond saying, we like, we love. It's all good.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And, yes. Okay. So we're at this protest. This came also, this story came from a riff that we had 20 minutes ago that. Now I'm like, what the was that riff? And I'm just gonna finish the story and hope that you remember what the thing was that made me say this. It was something about talking. Whatever. I'm just gonna tell the story. Anyway. We're at this protest. I was still, like, fairly early. This was. I was still probably five months into the job. Six months into the job. And so I'm, like, still trying to, like, get FaceTime with the big boss, you know? And we're. And we had. We had chatted and we had talked a little bit, and we're all sort of marching, we're chanting. And then somehow Jimmy and I wound up in a riff at this protest about taking somebody's microphone and just using the microphone for our own benefit. And the one version of the riff that I remember was us talking about walking backwards through the crowd with the. With the megaphone and leading people in a chant that went. I lost. I lost my earring. My earring. It's little. It's little and silver. And silver. Can you. Can you see it? See it? And, like, just going on forever.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And we were having so much fun imagining this. And I felt very conflicted because I was like. I don't think that Jimmy feels like, oh, these people who are. Who are protesting against the, like, evils of the. Of what our country has done. I don't think he really felt the pressure of those people, but I felt the pressure of those people. People who. I don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

People who don't know me.

[Pete Holmes]

The pressure to not do this bit.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

You mean the pressure to not do this bit. The pressure to, like, be serious at the protest. You know, it's like a man was brutally murdered as a representation of so many people who have been brutally murdered.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And here are me and Jimmy Fallon doing a bit about how I lost my earring.

[Pete Holmes]

I'll also say it can sometime. I don't know. It's hard to. It's hard to know the tone of the moment.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And sometimes you do need to. Like, I. I was at those protests, and sometimes there would be a moment where people are just. It's so heavy. Like a funeral. It's like being at a funeral, and sometimes a bit comes out and everybody depends. You read the Room?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You read the March?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, that's the. It's. That's the story, which. That was a fairly harmless story.

[Pete Holmes]

It was harmless.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

But the reason that I'm so scared is that they were like, you do not talk about Jimmy being a dish.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah. You know, well, that's like, again, I don't mean it to put them, put anybody down, but like, brand management.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Of course, of course, of course, of course, of course.

[Pete Holmes]

Corporations do the same thing. Like, and. And let's take Fallon and just give him a loving pad and we'll put them aside. Sure, Pat. It's condescending.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Hey, good job.

[Pete Holmes]

Good job, Jim.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Honestly, I bet he would love a loving Pat and somebody saying, good job.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, who wouldn't? Who amongst us wouldn't? I remember those early shows. He grew into it. Who cares? Now it sounds pandering, but you know when, like, it says, like, you'll be in, I don't know, Provincetown, and you'll see a billboard that says, like, xerox. Fuck who you want.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, Xerox. Put it in the right hole or the wrong one.

[Pete Holmes]

They try, but they can't. Hey, we just make copies. You copulate, you copulate, we'll copy. Yeah, there you go. But like, whenever I see a corporation, any corporation saying, we're with this. We're not, or whatever, you know, like, Stan, we stand with this. They have the numbers. They know their market. This is a good. This is a measured decision. There is no person Delta. There is no person Doritos. So it even extends to, like, non political things. It's like when they're like the official drink of the Rams. And I'm always like, when. When I'm touring around, it'll say, like, Bud Light. The official drink of the Cincinnati Reds. Then I'm like, okay, let's say the Cincinnati Reds, their rivals is the Chicago Blue Jays. I don't know any.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I think I'm watching you.

[Pete Holmes]

Just. Yeah, I'm having a panic. I don't know. I don't know what's happening.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I would help you if I could.

[Pete Holmes]

You can't. The way the White Sox. The White Sox and the Reds, are they in the same league? Sometimes you're in baseball and then somebody goes, that's the American League. And you're like, man, you had to make it one click harder. All I'm saying is the rival of the team, that's the official beverage. Budweiser is in their city and it says, the official beverage of the Chicago White Sox is Bud Light. Don't you see? Like, it's meaningless.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I'm. I'm a little. I'm a little lost.

[Pete Holmes]

Let me make it.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Are you saying the brand. Are you saying the brand is everybody's official drink?

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. And they'll lie to whoever they're talking to.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And they'll say, you know, we're the official drink of the. Of the Chicago Cubs.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And the Cubs fans are, like, getting Bud Lights, like, this is the drink.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Meanwhile, their rivals are doing the same. Beer.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

All I'm saying is these corporations aren't real. They're not people.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's just. It's not a new take. It's just. It's real.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. They are making what they think is the. The. The most optimized.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. It's. It's Mad Men. When Pete Campbell says, we've noticed, and he uses the soft N word for black people, that black people love Zenith Televisions and we should lean into this. That's all it is.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, Sprite didn't make a play for the black community. Sprite noticed that the black community liked Sprite.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And then they were like, hey, kid. And play. Get in here. You're too young to know what that one is.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

To know what that one is, I

[Pete Holmes]

could do the whole thing.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Let's hear it.

[Pete Holmes]

Hey, Chris. What up low. What's that in your hand? It's the S to the P R, I, T, E Can understand the cross, Chris. Dig the crazy crunchiness of unexpectedness that you should never miss. So what's your name, Daddy? M, A, C. And what's your drink? S, P, R, I, T, E. Why? Cause it's a lifesaver when you need a thirst quencher Like a kiss with a lemon twist now you know that's kicking words. So drink up, drink up is what you gotta do. Why? Cause I like the sprayed in you.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Jesus fucking.

[Pete Holmes]

That's not the clip. That's not the clip.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

That's. I.

[Pete Holmes]

You don't know any commercial raps?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Nope.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm the Messer rapper and I'm here to say I love fruity Pebbles in a major way. It's the bedrock. Yellow, orange, purple, lime and red. But to get the fruity taste, I gotta trick Fred. Trick Fred. Barney. I'm old.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Wow. Ta da. Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. No raps in your youth. How old are you?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

When. How old do. I'm very young. I'm so young. I'm so young.

[Pete Holmes]

Showbiz.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And when did you get your first telephone? Did you used to use a telegram? A telegraph? I can't even. Telegram is a. Is it?

[Pete Holmes]

I'd take the trolley down to the telegraph station and say, tell Nana stop. Hello, Nana, stop. I love you full stop. That's what I would Do.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

That's good.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I got a phone in like 2000. I was like a senior. Junior. Senior.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

2000.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

You got a cell phone? No. You got your own phone line? Telephone line.

[Pete Holmes]

No cell phone.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

You got a cell phone?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, 2000. Yeah, yeah, 2000. Yeah. Nokia Snake. Anybody see? You don't know any of this.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I know the Nokia. I know the big Nokia brick. And that's it. I mean, like, it's like that. That big brick telephone. Don't.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, yeah, this was a dumb. This was a really cheap, flimsy. Like people. Well, I don't know. People might not know that. When Apple came along, they were like, what if someone did a good phone? Like that was like, really revolutionary.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because they were cheap plastic. They had these removable frames, like, to make it red. You took this thing off.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I sort of remember that.

[Pete Holmes]

That was mall kiosk stuff.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I sort of remember that.

[Pete Holmes]

You could express yourself like that. That was wallpaper. Was like literal, like sweatshop made. Just. Piece of shit.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes, I sort of remember that.

[Pete Holmes]

And there was one game on the phone and it was called Snake. And people would play Snake and feel really cool, but I. This is so 2000. I had carpenter jeans and they had this pocket here and it was exactly the size of a Nokia. Whatever. And I remember my ring, it went bum, bum, bum, da da da da da da da da da da da da Was called Jump. Look. What was your.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I feel like I have access.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. A whole thing I've never talked about. You just went into a room.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I was like, I haven't been in here in ages. And you just keep opening. Opening drawers and new melodies.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm the master rapper and I'm here to say, like, Fruity Pebbles wraps, Sprite wraps. I also like that I did them in a way that has the message mistakes, like, I don't know the bedrock. Yellow, orange, purple, lime and red. It wouldn't be yellow, orange, purple, lime and red. It would be green and red. Oh, but I said it wrong my whole life.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

So do you think that that's not. You think that it could be.

[Pete Holmes]

Do you wanna.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

You don't think that? No, not really.

[Pete Holmes]

Live in the mystery.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Honestly.

[Pete Holmes]

The mystery. I'm sure it has millions of views.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I'm sure it was one of the earliest YouTube videos, basically. I wish that I got on YouTube early because you get so much benefit

[Pete Holmes]

from being one of the first. Yeah, well, that's the same when that Netflix specials.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

The people that had the first five net Netflix specials. It would be Funny to have a hot take and be like, are these really the best? I'm just kidding, though. They're all my friends. I love them all. I'm just saying there is a benefit to being first.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I think that, like, this is not a statement on their. This is not a value judgment on their comedy, but they undeniably got a disproportionate career boost.

[Pete Holmes]

For sure. I think they would say that.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because I remember when people were doing Netflix specials at the beginning, we were like, netflix specials?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, we thought it was stupid. Then you see Tom Segura's face on the homepage where it used to be. Fucking. I don't know.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Tom Hanks.

[Pete Holmes]

Tom Hanks, Exactly. Thank you.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're here, Tom.

[Pete Holmes]

They always wanted to be a Tom. They have the numbers.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. They've got Tom Cruise, Tom Hanks, Tom Segura. That's it.

[Pete Holmes]

If we were stoned, we'd be blowing our minds. Tom Arnold.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

How. No, that's mean. I was gonna say, would you sleep with Tom Arnold? But that's not the kind of show it is.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I don't.

[Pete Holmes]

You know who it is?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

No, who? Tom Arnold is.

[Pete Holmes]

Great, then you guys are doing it.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I'm gonna say I have notoriously bad taste in men, so.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, no, Tom Arnold isn't a bad taste in it. He was married to.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Probably then not.

[Pete Holmes]

No. Oh, yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

What I'm saying is I'm looking for some weirdos.

[Pete Holmes]

What's your problem? What's your issue?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

That's gonna be the.

[Pete Holmes]

What's your. Welcome to what's your problem?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

What's your problem?

[Pete Holmes]

What's your problem?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I actually. That is actually exactly the kind of podcast, like, I think if I ever had a podcast, it would call it what's your problem?

[Pete Holmes]

This is where you figured it out.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. What's your problem?

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that's what blocks is, you know?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

What are your blocks?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But I think if you called it what's your problem?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

It is.

[Pete Holmes]

A friend of mine just started a podcast called I love you but. And I looked it up. I was looking for it, and there were, like, five podcasts called I love youe, but his is the best. Check it out. Darren McGee. But you don't even have to have a new name anymore.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like books, too. Sometimes people put the subtle art of not giving a fuck. There was already a book called no, I'm pretty sure. Katie, can you. I don't want to. Mark Manson. He's He's. Is it Manson? You don't know anybody. You have terrible taste in men. Yeah, Mark, I'm pretty sure Manson.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Are you trying to say Joe Rogan?

[Pete Holmes]

Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan wrote the Subtle Art of Not Giving a creatine. And can you say, was there a book called the Subtle Art of Not Giving a. Before there?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

No. No way. Was there a book called the Subtle Art of Not giving.

[Pete Holmes]

I was in a bookshop and I saw it.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And you don't think this is like. You don't think it was just a second run of the COVID That's really funny.

[Pete Holmes]

What's that? Okay, so you got.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I'm gonna walk it back by a reprint.

[Pete Holmes]

When you're in the subway in New York and they were like, like unofficial prints like this A new one. Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I comes up in a trench coat, goes, you want to. You want to buy a Subtle Art of Not Giving a. I.

[Pete Holmes]

And there's watches. Those are simple.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

There's also self help books.

[Pete Holmes]

And he. And you're like, you know, I should read it. He does and he stops doing it.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

You want to buy 47 laws of power? Why not? I thought it was 48. Well, this is the. It's a knocko. So we had to take one of the laws of power out of one

[Pete Holmes]

fewer law of power.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, yeah. That's why I'm stuck here doing this. I need that lesson.

[Pete Holmes]

That was one of my earliest bits. I saw a flyer, I saw a guy putting up flyers that said work from home. I was like, apparently not such a Seinfeld kind of joke.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

It's great.

[Pete Holmes]

But what it was, was, it was. It was the art of not giving a fuck or something like that. He added the word subtle. Or it was like the art of not giving a damn or something. But I was like, my point is, you can have a name that's very similar to another book and it doesn't even matter anymore. Also specials.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm calling my new special Donald Glover Live in Concert. I'm just kidding.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

That, can you imagine, is a title that somebody's already had for a comedy special. There's actually already a stand up special called really don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

Damn it, I wanted it. Yeah. Lionel Richie Live in Concert would be good too.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. Really?

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, so what's your. What's your problem?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

My problem in life?

[Pete Holmes]

Well, you don't. You don't know, partner.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

What, my bad taste? No, no, no, no. I'm in a wonderful relationship with a one man who I love very much, who is perfect and amazing.

[Pete Holmes]

Boring.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, unfortunately.

[Pete Holmes]

Is he a comedian?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

He is a comedian. He's a comedian and the director he directed. This is not my boyfriend. Do you know James Aaster, your boyfriend? He's. I'm not dating James.

[Pete Holmes]

James Aaster.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Do you know who. James.

[Pete Holmes]

Your boyfriend's my. James a caster.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

My. My boyfriend's friend.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

James a caster. My boyfriend.

[Pete Holmes]

Why do I know James a caster?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

He's a British stand up.

[Pete Holmes]

Big.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Very, very.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. James a caster.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

He puts out like nine albums. He did four specials. Yeah, he's brilliant at a time. Yeah, We've tried to get him on. We get a fierce. No, thank you. Not from him. From his team.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Cheers.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Cheers.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, you'd like James, would you pass?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, pass.

[Pete Holmes]

You know how British can be. Very nice, but also very direct.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Oh, they're so. Pass. They're so. That's cute.

[Pete Holmes]

That's nice. Yeah, thank you. Oh, you'd like to have James on your show. You'd like to use his celebrity to boost your show. That's cute. Yeah, it's to pass. I'm on the table.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And it's all in a WhatsApp voice note, unfortunately.

[Pete Holmes]

Brutal. So, James, if your team isn't telling you the offer.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, it's there, it's there.

[Pete Holmes]

But I thought for some reason it was a director because you said director. So I was thinking James Acaster, director. Nothing came up.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

James Acaster, comedian, directed Acaster's HBO special. Directed and produced.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, nice. Okay, Stuart, Stuart, but what was your issue before you found Stewart that sounded interesting.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I have cheated in almost every relationship

[Pete Holmes]

I've ever been in and I have a solo scoundrel. You're a scoundrel. A scoundrel.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

A little hussy.

[Pete Holmes]

I can't stop. That's what my mom would call you. A floozy. My mom would call you a floozy. I'm fascinated. I don't want to spoil your one person show. Yeah, yeah. But do you have a. Yeah, everybody should see it. But what is it called?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Cheat. There's no. There's no spoiler.

[Pete Holmes]

Is it on YouTube or something?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

It's not on YouTube. No. So at this point, I'm still doing one offs of it in New York and la.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, so go see it.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So go see Cheat without spoiling the end of Cheat. I'm interested in what you think it is because it's a very specific compulsion to be like to kind of. Is it to blow something up before it Gets too serious. Is it?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

No. A lot of times it was that something was dragging on for a very long time, and I was not pulling the trigger.

[Pete Holmes]

To break up.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes, to break up.

[Pete Holmes]

I think this is a big swath of the floozy behavior. It's like, we both know this is over.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Many floozies have engaged in this.

[Pete Holmes]

Many floozies love this. Instead of an apology or a breakup coming out of the mouth. Okay.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

You don't have to say that it's. It's awful. That. That was an awful riff. But you do something pleasant.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes. And.

[Pete Holmes]

And then it blows it up.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Well, you know, it's funny. I never. I only ever got caught once. I only ever got found out once. And I cheated a lot. Like, a lot a lot.

[Pete Holmes]

What? When were you doing it? You're in a relationship. To me, that means you're watching TV at night with this person.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Are you living with these people you're cheating on?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

There was. For the most part. No, there was only one time. Okay, so only one time where I was.

[Pete Holmes]

Now you're just Jack the Ripper. You're just a person that goes out and kills people. Who cares?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

If Jack the Ripper had a roommate, that's impressive.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. A roommate that he was supposed to be killing.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm only supposed to stab you, but I keep going out and stabbing all these strangers. Yes. Okay.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

That's actually that I talk about all the time. That we have more empathy on screen for because I. I would like to develop this into a TV show and cheat. And we have more empathy on screen for serial killers than we do for people who cheat. We are.

[Pete Holmes]

We don't like people who cheat.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

We are so much more like.

[Pete Holmes]

Can we say women who cheat?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. Yeah. We hate women who cheat.

[Pete Holmes]

Tony Soprano, we love.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yep. Mad Men guy.

[Pete Holmes]

Don Draper, we love. But Mad Men guy. How dare you? John Ham, the guy who sold the butter. The butter? Did he do a campaign for butter?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I've never. No, no, no, no, no. In Mad Men. Isn't that the famous. I have. I'm gonna say, never seen 30 seconds of Mad Men, but I. I'm just kidding. Part of. Look, part of why I don't know any of these raps is also that I have.

[Pete Holmes]

You're out there cheating.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I'm. Yeah, I'm busy. I'm getting my dick wet. Okay. I'm over there. I got. I got stuff to do. I got people to do.

[Pete Holmes]

I got people to double cross.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I can't be watching Mad Men.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'll tell you, if you've seen every episode of Mad Men, you're not cheating on your partner.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That's why you're not cheating. You're busy. I gotta grind down this show. You were out there swashbuckling. You're swinging on a rope.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Having sex.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Tell me what you were about to say. Oh, no, hold on.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Not about the butter. No, no, no, no. My brain is like, you know, hard to go back. Not about the butter.

[Pete Holmes]

Hard to go back.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Not about the. Oh. Oh. Never got found out. Is that what I was talking about?

[Pete Holmes]

Maybe. Oh, yeah. You never got caught. Except once.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

It just was my. Basically, I was using it as, like, it's got to be done. It's got to be done. It's got to be done. It's got to be done as a. As a, like, clear signal to myself that the relationship.

[Pete Holmes]

This is how real you are about ending it. Like you're going to move on before it's over, Right? Yes.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And that to make a.

[Pete Holmes]

Commit a commitment, it's called throwing your hat over the wall.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

You have to go over the wall if you threw your hat over the wall.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

So you cheat and you're like, I'm not gonna live with this guilt and this.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Now the problem is that I oftentimes did. Like, sometimes I would cheat and then still stay with the person for another year or two. So it's not always. This is.

[Pete Holmes]

So there's no.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

For the record, like, I do.

[Pete Holmes]

Cheating is always bad.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

It always hurts somebody. A healthy relationship does not condone cheating. Or like, a healthy relationship does not involve cheating. And my show does not condone cheating. I think cheating is bad. That.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Also, that being said, happens all the time. And nobody's willing to say that they do it. And when we, like when we talk about people who cheat, it's usually that they've cheated once. Right. Like, Chris Rock talked about it in Tambourine, and everybody's like, the cheating special. And I watched it being like, oh, my God, he's gonna talk about the stuff that I want to talk about. And it was truly like 45 seconds.

[Pete Holmes]

And then it turns out it was Jimmy Fallon in blackface. Yeah. Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And. And that's why he wouldn't talk about it. That's why he was like.

[Pete Holmes]

Because he wanted people to like him.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

It's a 20 minute callback. Yeah. Okay. You never got caught except once. What happened that time? Well, you don't have to do your whole show.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

That. That is in it's in the.

[Pete Holmes]

It's in the show. So go see the show. But I am. So. I just. Am I understanding you that you're like, if I. No, it wasn't always in the relationship.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

The problem is, is that. And. And what I. What I set out to do in developing the show is. The problem is what we want as creatures of narrative is we want a clear pattern of, like, creatures of narrative.

[Pete Holmes]

The new Chloe Radcliffe special Creatures of narrative.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Creatures of narrative. Sit down, children. Let me tell you the tale.

[Pete Holmes]

You blow out a candle at the end. Black.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, that's good.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that's good.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And then the lights come immediately back on and I'm gone. And. But my clothes are all there and they're hanging in midair.

[Pete Holmes]

Wait.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And then they fall.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, very good.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And then the audience realizes this. The wall to their left can go transparent. There's certain bathrooms in Japan where it's, like transparent and turns off and it's see through and it's you performing the show for another audience. So you're cheating on them.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

That's great. I like that a lot.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. And then you look at them and go, yeah. Cheat.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And James Earl Jones, Creatures of Narrative

[Pete Holmes]

by Chloe Radcliffe, Creatures of narrative, which is a body spray, presents cheat.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And they get the feeling. And you're like, I told you.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes. And James Earl Jones is dead. Dead.

[Pete Holmes]

So don't bring him up in riffs. Okay, I did. Whoops.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And let's kill that riff.

[Pete Holmes]

Like him.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Is that.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Did he get killed?

[Pete Holmes]

He wasn't killed.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, he just died.

[Pete Holmes]

I mean, God, somebody did. Don't do the riff. Don't riff on sweet James Earl.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

But also, don't you think so if God killed James Earl Jones and you want to be God on stage by the transitive property.

[Pete Holmes]

I want to kill James Earl Jones.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm bound as a host by the. By the promise of. Yes. And to say that it's true.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.

[Pete Holmes]

How did James Earl Jones die before we realized we can't release this episode?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Sweet old man surrounded by his family telling.

[Pete Holmes]

As long as it's not something.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Complications from type 2 diabetes.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

It's a little sad.

[Pete Holmes]

It's sad.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I think we're okay, though. Okay, I'm going to make a ruling. I'm going to Comedy court.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

We need comedy.

[Pete Holmes]

Make a ruling.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Are you the judge? I can't be in Comedy Court.

[Pete Holmes]

No, no, the judge has to be someone who doesn't know anything about comedy. Okay. Because that's where it does seem to be decided is on the streets. It's decided in the barbershop.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

The judge is a German.

[Pete Holmes]

A German humorless man.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, the Germans aren't. They're known for their kind of wicked giggle, but not like a.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

They're wicked giggle at suffering, you know?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I know. This is every German fan. I apologize. They've heard that a million times.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. You guys know I love therapy. Val loves therapy. We talk about it on the show all the time, how it has been a huge game changer in both of our lives. And something I think we don't talk about about enough is financial stress. Money stuff. It's not just about numbers. It's about anxiety, it's sleep, it's relationships. And I know for me, I get money stress. I grew up with a lot of weird beliefs around money. Like, if things weren't working or if I wasn't being productive or producing in a certain way didn't just mean it wasn't working. It meant there was something wrong with me fundamentally, and there was something defective. Therapy can help with that, especially with money stuff. Trust me on that. It's about helping you deal with that stress and those stories you're carrying around money. It can help you unpack that stuff, build healthier habits, and just feel less alone about it, which is huge. BetterHelp has over 30,000 licensed therapists and help more than 6 million people worldwide. You just fill out a short questionnaire and they match you with a therapist. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch anytime. And it's entirely online. It is so easy and fast and helps when life feels overwhelming. Therapy can help. Sign up for 10% [e-mail] weirdo that's betterhelp.com weirdo hey, it's Julie, Louis Dreyfus

[Julie Louis-Dreyfus]

from Wiser Than Me, etc. Just popping in with a little reality check. Food waste shouldn't exist. There is no reason that our leftovers should end up in a landfill. But that's the final destination for about a third of the food we grow. Our ancestors would be confused. They use their food scraps as compost or as animal feed or in weird soups, all the stuff we did before garbage was invented. But composting is hard work. Living with a bucket of rotten food on your counter is gross. Most food goes in the trash because it's easy. And these days, we'll take any easy we can get. But now there's something easier. Drop your scraps in A mill food recycler. It looks like a kitchen bin and an iPhone had a baby. It takes nearly anything, even meat and bones. It works automatically. You can keep filling it for weeks and it never smells. When you finally empty it, you've got these nutrient rich grounds. Use them in your garden, pour them in your green bin, or have mill get them to a small farm so the food you don't eat can help grow the food you do. Just like it should be. It's why I own a mill, why I invest in mill, and why I'm still obsessed with my mill. If you want to get obsessed too, go to mill.com wiser to get $75 off. That's mill.com wiser for $75 off.

[Pete Holmes]

For those of you that listen to the Friday editions of this podcast, we made it weird. I'm always talking about Saffron. I jokingly call myself Zach Saffron because now I'm no longer Pete Holmes. I'm Zach Saffron. Because Saffron, which I'm holding right here from Kinobody, is making a huge, huge difference in my life. I can't believe there is a natural way to, for me, calm down. Calm down. Anxiety, dread, hypertension. Like that sort of feeling like I'm in a movie theater and someone's chewing their popcorn too loud and I'm just gonna snap. That's gone. It's incredible. I'm still funny, I'm still creative. I'm still me. I'm still productive. More productive because I don't overthink everything. Saffron is incredible. I've been doing research after the fact because I started taking it. I was having a stressful day with my daughter. We were just hitting the. Hitting a wall. I took one saffron the first time. I took it. 15, 20 minutes later, first dose, I felt amazing. I felt calm. I felt focused, clear. Google it. Don't just listen to me, Google Saffron benefits. But Kenobody is batting a thousand when it comes to supplements, and they have dialed it in. The perfect Saffron supplement. You take one with your morning meal, you take one with your evening meal, and it's an absolute game changer. And you can get 20% off and be your own version of Zach Saffron. I can't recommend it more. It has been such a game changer. Go to kinobody k I n o body.com and use promo code weird at checkout for 20 off. Check out Saffron. Check out their other things. But Definitely get their saffron. Get it before I buy all of it. For real. I'm using my own promo code all the time. I. I love it. Keep going. Why do we cheat? Caught.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Oh, this is creatures of narrative. It's okay. What we want, we want a clear. My sister got cancer when I was young and she got more attention than me.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And now I'm desperate for attention. And that is reason we want a clear. This is my pattern. I would. Three weeks before the end of the relationship, I would go cheat. And then I would go, I can't live with this skill. And I would break up with or then. Right. Like we want that. Life is unfortunately not that neat and there are a lot of. I'm not one of the people who's like any logic that we place on events is our retrospective logic. And it act. It was actually all random and we're just reading meaning. I. I do like, I believe in meaning and I believe that, that like events are connected and I yada yada got it. But that said, I do think that the connections are like infinitely more than just the one thread of this bad thing happened to me. And so now I am like, this is how I do this.

[Pete Holmes]

We want the headline.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

We want the headline. And so basically it's like why it's a 75 minute show is because I need. Because there's a lot of that goes into it and there's a lot of ways the pattern presents. But there is this very clear. It is clearly a function of self esteem, of worthiness, of like seeking worthiness.

[Pete Holmes]

I see very similar to stand up.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Totally.

[Pete Holmes]

Like I often it's weird that I'm like, oh, I would never cheat. But I'm like, it is in the same store. It's in like the back of the store.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, yeah. It's through the beaded curtain.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's in the porn section. We sell stand up comedy. Here's magic.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Here's dance. Like, here's the loud guy at a party that just tells that story. Like we have it all. And through the beads we have like.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

You want to get back in?

[Pete Holmes]

Do you want like. And correct me if I'm wrong. Val and I have talked. My wife and I have talked about this. It's like, can you imagine the thrill? Cuz sex is good when it's informed by some sort of cheating is unfortunately the hottest.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I was just.

[Pete Holmes]

It must be the hottest.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Unfortunately it is doing it.

[Pete Holmes]

It's so hot on the altar of your relation. Like you're bur the stakes.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

The stakes are so high. It is. And the other thing.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

All right. You want to talk about why cheating's hot? The other. Here's the problem with why cheating is hot.

[Pete Holmes]

Is that why cheating is hot?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Why cheating is hot?

[Pete Holmes]

You're saying it like one word, like a why cheese. Like a part of Wisconsin is hot.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Are you going down to watching? Hey, I hear they got a. They got a mechanic down there. He'll. He'll weld your. He'll weld your exhaust system for, like 100 bucks in why cheating's hot.

[Pete Holmes]

And then there's something that happens in the back. You'll figure it out.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

You. You give him an extra 100 bucks, you're going to have a nice little time.

[Pete Holmes]

Good Wisconsin accent.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I'm from Minnesota.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, nice. All right. Very good.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, I'm obsessed with the Midwest. It's every. My favorite people in the world are Midwesterners who left.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Midwesterners who were willing to go.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. As Jake. Jake Johansson said, I lived in Iowa until I realized I was free to leave.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Keep going.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Apologies to Germans. Apologies to Midwesterners.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And I apology to Jimmy Fallon. Apologies.

[Pete Holmes]

Sorry to Jimmy Jones. Sorry to James Earl Jones and his family. Sorry to Chris Rock for implying that his special. Celebrated special was actually Jimmy Fallon.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which I think. I think actually the person who would feel the most pain is Chris Rock with that implication.

[Pete Holmes]

I think the.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

The person who would be the maddest out of everything that we've said, they

[Pete Holmes]

had to take it from me.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And Bo Burnham was like. Like what. What could I say?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

We did what we needed. He directed it.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. Tambourine. Tambourine.

[Pete Holmes]

No, thanks. I'm good.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Hey, you go down at Tamborine.

[Pete Holmes]

Tamborine. Why cheating is hot? These are great towns in Wisconsin. Okay, you're going to tell me why cheating is hot.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Why cheating is hot.

[Pete Holmes]

But you were super excited about it.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Is that in. Okay. The thing that makes sex good or the. I should say the thing that. The thing that reduces the enjoyment of any sexual activity. I'm not just talking about penetrative sex. This can be. Be just little touch. It can be kissing. It can be whatever. The. The thing that reduces the enjoyment is not paying attention to the little stuff rushing and being in your head.

[Pete Holmes]

Yep.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And cheating eliminates all three of those in one fell swoop.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Because what it does is what you are focusing on the reason.

[Pete Holmes]

Every micro movement.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

You're focusing on every micro movement. So you're paying so much attention. You are going so slow because you're like, I'm not supposed to be doing this. This.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. So you might as well enjoy it.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Holding back. It's. I don't even. I guess for me, it was not like, you might as well enjoy it, because I was never. I was always telling myself the story that, like, I'm not gonna this time. I'm not gonna cheat. I know we're close. I know we're really close, but I am gonna pull. I'm gonna back out at the last second. I am gonna. I'm gonna walk.

[Pete Holmes]

Wait, that's part of it, too. That's like the edging of the cheat, like in White Lotus season two. Yeah, two. Where he gets kissed by the prostitute, but then he doesn't.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And that's kind of like cake and eat it too town.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I. I have a line in cake

[Pete Holmes]

and eat it too.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Two cake and eat it to a

[Pete Holmes]

right by white cheating. Is that Cake and eat it too is right by it. You can get it. One smooch.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

They're all.

[Pete Holmes]

Where. Where is the cutoff? One smooch.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Oh, so. Well, so. I mean, this is. Now we really are in the show. Also on the edging thing, I have a line where I say, you stole it from me. I hate.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm gonna need video proof.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, yeah. Actually, from here on out, I'm gonna credit you in this show that if you like edging, you would like cheating. I hate to be the bearer of bad ch. News, but, you know, and I'm just the messenger here, but that is. Yeah, they're the same function.

[Pete Holmes]

And if you like edging, you might want to look at cheating. That's. Can't be good for your prostate.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Take it. Take a. Take a gander.

[Pete Holmes]

Take a gander. Take a look at the people in the shadows. Give them little smoochies. It's got to be incredibly hot, but it's like, Victorian. It's like, he's from. I'm from. But in the powder room.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

I dropped my. Yes, he pooked.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Was he. It's all questions. Is he. And I like that we're both just getting horny. But it's true. It's like. Like, is that move what I think it is?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, totally.

[Pete Holmes]

And it might not be.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Oh, it's so exciting.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

It's the. It's. It, like. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like you can hear the ice in a glass, like, kind of. You know that sound, like, truly and

[Chloe Radcliffe]

it gets you out of your head because I think a lot of people would be like, what are you talking about? I would be so in my head because I would just be thinking about how this is wrong the whole time. But that is actually what gets you out of your head. Head sexually focusing on like there is a line that I am not supposed to cross.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Is what takes away.

[Pete Holmes]

Yep.

[Julie Louis-Dreyfus]

The.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Did I touch him in the wrong place? Like, right. Is. Is my. Are my hands sweaty? You're not thinking about. Your hands are sweaty because you're thinking about something so much bigger and with more gravity.

[Pete Holmes]

You are thinking about the relationship ending.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I'm not thinking about the relationship ending, but I am thinking about the line that I'm not supposed to cross. Right. I, I, you know, it's like you drop the water tank compartment about the per. You know, I, for me, I never was like, I never had the image of my partner's face actually truly now in the relationship that I'm in.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, candle transparent wall. Fuck.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

You can see me for both angles. Yeah. I, the, the actually like you're not picturing their face. How I know that I'm in a very healthy relationship now is that I have been in situations where I. I have been in sort of like the precursor to my cheating situations.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. What is that precursor? Because I was like, like hanging out

[Chloe Radcliffe]

late with a person who I have a lot of chemistry with.

[Pete Holmes]

As simple as it.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Hanging out like and intoxicating.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Hanging out really late. I'm saying like, like, you know.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Not, not like at the end of, you know, at bar close. Everybody goes home.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And I'm saying like hang, you know, like later than the group. And then it's just us in a second location. Should we go get another drink? Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Second location.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Second location just. Or Cabbage Cab. People are walking around. Hey, I'll walk you to the. I'll walk you to the train station. Should we walk to the far train station? Actually, should we pass. Should we just go on a long walk any. Yeah, yeah. Hanging out.

[Pete Holmes]

That's romance too.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Again, we're both anti cheat but like the, the titillation of. Do you want to just keep walking?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then you are feeling incredibly chosen and alive. Fear of death. Stuff like, like, you know what I mean? Like not living your life is probably in play.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

Maybe not with you, but I imagine

[Chloe Radcliffe]

a lot of people. Yeah. For me it was very like. I mean also I. And if somebody's only listening to this, I have a Huge birthmark on my face. I have a birthmark that is roughly the size and shape of a kiwi. Look, looks. Really picture a hamster and then put it on my face. And that I would say is like you're now picturing the correct thing.

[Pete Holmes]

And I have a sleeping hamster. Sleeping hamster. Sleeping hamster standing comic or something like that's the.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And the poster is Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and it's me in the air. There's a little. And there's a hamster. But is it a hamster or is it just my birthmark at the bottom?

[Pete Holmes]

Sleeping hamster.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

If you're audio only.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Re. Listen. Yeah, start it over and just picture, picture it. You need to.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And so I, you know, I had sort of like your run of the mill weight issues that you know, 60% of American women grow up with with. I had my like your run of

[Pete Holmes]

the mill body dysmorphia or actually pudgy.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Like I don't mean to say like

[Pete Holmes]

actually valid p. I just mean like it's different.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I was never fat fat, but I was never thin. I was never. I. I've been like a little chunky pudgy. You know, the kind of like, you know, like dweeby theater kid.

[Pete Holmes]

Jared Logan had a great joke about how. And I felt this way too. We're not in the action movie where the fat guy that's about to eat the sandwich and then like the car chase goes by and he drops the sandwich. Especially in the 80s, that's how heavier people were depicted.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Totally.

[Pete Holmes]

And I was like, oh, that's me. I'm the guy. Or I'm the crony. Like there's the cool kid. And I'm like, yeah, what he said. And they're like, shut up.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're the one who we actually see like have a soft side inside. You know, at the end he gets hurt and he's like, like.

[Pete Holmes]

Because everyone knows he was just align allying himself with the mean person to save himself from all the boob sh.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Cuz he wasn't. He wasn't brave enough to stand up for himself. But in the end be who he is.

[Pete Holmes]

He realizes that the good guys are

[Chloe Radcliffe]

actually the good guys.

[Pete Holmes]

When will we all realize?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

When will we all realize?

[Pete Holmes]

Go ahead. What the was I talking about?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Anyway? How do my. Oh, oh, oh. Worthiness, Self worth forth. Basically, it's like I. I think most people and I think this is more intense for women.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, you brought up the birthmark. What does that have to Do. Oh, this goes back to being pudgy and having a birthmark.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes. And that mo. So, yes. Most people. Women experience it at a different frequency than men have a connection between desirability and self worth and. Right. If somebody wants to me, that means I am valuable. Yeah. Yeah. And I have a like, special version of nobody wants to me because. Because part of that is having a huge thing on my face and just like being so outside the norm of what beauty standards are like. Not like, I think I'm pretty, I like who I like what I look like, yada, yada, yada.

[Pete Holmes]

I understand.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

But it like took a very, very, very, very, very long time.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

But I discovered that it turns out men would. Men will a person with a birthmark on their face.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Believe. Believe that. And when I discovered that, I was like, oh, my God, I can like, like, I can tap that as a way of proving to myself that I am well.

[Pete Holmes]

And make up for all that pain.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes. Make up for all that pain.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. And this actually. Wow. This really comes back to what my problem is. Why my taste is bad in men.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. Go ahead.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

It's because I was like, well, I. I need to go for men who will me. Who will find me desirable, even at a heavier weight, even with a thing on my face, even as a weirdo, even, you know, I never was a. I never fit in. And so I think I like, just developed over decades a taste in men who are not the tens in the room. You know, like, the tens in the room can't get anybody. They don't need me.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, but it's a heartbreaking thing to say. They don't need me.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

They don't need me.

[Pete Holmes]

I know how that feels, though. You're like, they don't need the bog and bin. They have the. But that is something. Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

On the run.

[Pete Holmes]

But that's what you say. It's raining and you're like, you don't need me.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You got the pick of the litter. And he's like, I love you.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And I'm like, I don't believe you. You're are a 10.

[Pete Holmes]

No. Sure. I directed James a Caster's special, but only one of them and the guy's got nine.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

He. Yes, my.

[Pete Holmes]

But this is the sound of your pain. Your pain is you don't need me. You could have anybody.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes. You don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, but I'm gonna. These guys that do are.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Are up that don't feel like they could have anybody. And then I'm here being like, but you could have me. And they're like, I could have you.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And really what we are saying to each other is. But you. We're both saying you could have me and we're both sort of awed by it.

[Pete Holmes]

Right, right.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And I just learned how to like really turn that into a little, A little side business.

[Pete Holmes]

There was a wound and then you filled the hole with.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

The approval that you weren't getting.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, yeah. And sometimes fingers.

[Pete Holmes]

And sometimes fingers.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, Sometimes. That's what I felt the whole way.

[Pete Holmes]

Getting fingered on a dock. That's one of your jokes.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, that's is that is that is. I forgot I was like fingered. I said that.

[Pete Holmes]

Since you have said that, that's one of yours. No, I understand. It's like, but when does cheating come in? Cuz you could just be a Flemmeister. Yes, but then.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

But I want the stability of a relationship. I want the safety.

[Pete Holmes]

But you're addicted to the. Were addicted.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. I would say I, I think that there's a lot of. I, I frequently like think of it as an addiction. I think the people who are actually like physiologically addicted to a substance would maybe be like, shut the fuck up.

[Pete Holmes]

I know what you mean. Like, I think I'm addicted to alcohol, but I have it in my house and I don't care.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I think a lot of people would be like, that means you're not addicted to alcohol. I would say I'm addicted to Oreos in a way that you can't have them in the house.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yep. That's fucking yep.

[Pete Holmes]

So I have birthmarks on my face. I know it's a different kind of style. Sure. But I remember really,

[Chloe Radcliffe]

what's the latest trend in birthmarks? This year's look, what's in, what's out.

[Pete Holmes]

But I remember, I'm just saying this to relate. I remember like. And now I never think about them. But like my friend, we were drawing each other and he drew me and he included them.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

All of them.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm sure you have. I'm not trying to get that story from you, but I'm just like that feeling of like, is that how you see me? And I would just like want and have. I had one on my forehead too, actually, that I did have removed. Anyway, who cares? I'm just saying, like, I kind of understand every.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I think, I think most people have a thing. Everybody has something. Everybody has something very emotional. You know, everybody has some bruise inside of them that has made them do up things.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I think almost everybody does have something Physical. The, that frequently they'll come up to me and they'll be like, you know, like, people, people will, you are not doing this. Yeah, but somebody with, like, similar birthmarks to you will come up to me and be like, I, me too. I totally get it. And I, and part of me is like, no, you don't.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I understand that.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

But it, that's kind of the same dynamic as, as being like, if, if somebody's depressed and then being like, well, there are starving children in Africa. And it's like, but that's not, that's not the world that I live in.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

The world that, in the world that I live in, the problems that I'm dealing with, with are severe. And it's like, you, you don't live in my body. You live in your body. In your body. Those were, those got you made fun of, or those made you self conscious or those made you feel insecure, whatever. Right? So it's like, fine. I, I, I can turn off the, like, oh, yeah. Was that tough? Was that hard? And I, like, I can shut that off.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And be like, yeah, it was. I'm sure it was hard, right? Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, only because I'm acknowledging the different category. And even that was just kind of like I hated standing out in any way. And I was also pudgy, so I was like. And, and what? I used to have this joke. I was like, when you're the fattest kid in your school, you're the fat kid. It doesn't matter.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

If you were like, it doesn't matter

[Chloe Radcliffe]

what the weight is.

[Pete Holmes]

80s. Yeah, 80s. I don't know, I don't want to talk about categories of over or whatever, heaviness, but I, I remember just not wanting to stand out. I have to imagine for a woman, it's even worse.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Totally, totally, totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I, I could get on my little soapbox about how society views women, but.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I love that it's a soapbox. So you can do them dishes. Okay. Come on.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, she, of course you got some soapbox because you've been using the soap all day.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Or you better have.

[Pete Holmes]

She's got it box. Tell me about finding comedy. I have to think that if you're loving the rando, sling in the random.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That when you, Were you cheating before you found comedy? Yes. Okay. And then when you found comedy, were you like, this is another way to cheat. Not cheat sexually, but, like, find that affirmation.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Totally. And to like, fast forward a decade into Comedy, basically, like, my career really turned a corner three, four years ago, and my impulse to cheat has plummeted, has gone, like, right, you know, through the floor.

[Pete Holmes]

Val and I talk about that all the time. It's like, like we, I, I, I don't, I'm not a, I'm not, I've never cheated. I'm not pushed that way.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I don't know how to stand your judgment. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't. I'm glad that you love killing babies in the forest for their power, but I don't do that.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I'm just kidding.

[Pete Holmes]

I, I'm just letting you know that's not a thing. But one of the reasons when Val and I just talk about cheating as an idea, I'm like, the reason I never think about it is because I think one I'm not. That's not really my leaning. But also my life is interesting enough. Like, I'm not bored. Like, I leave. I'll tell you this. I think this is interesting. I've been blind 10 out of 10. Horny. Then I do a show, and then I'm not horny at all.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Interesting at all.

[Pete Holmes]

Because I don't like releasing before shows because it's like the Rocky thing. I want to be alive. I want to be vibrant.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Sure.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm like, just do it after. Right? Or have sex after. And then I have zero desire.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I used to have a joke where I was like, it got cut from my new special, but my new special now, but it was about how I don't have sex after shows. It's like. And I go, this is the performance.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm not gonna, like, meet somebody and Although there was some of that, but, like, it was never my favorite thing to do. I was like, I just, oh, no.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Orgasm is gonna be better than people clapping.

[Pete Holmes]

Very tricky.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Have you ever had, you ever had 100 people clap? Have you ever had a thousand people clap? You think cum is gonna get over that?

[Pete Holmes]

As good as that is? Sex cum. Sex cum made it worse. Sex cum is great. It is four seconds.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Maybe for a lady, maybe, I don't know, maybe for a guy you can have longer ones, but, like, you can

[Chloe Radcliffe]

get up to six, seven, maybe six, seven seconds.

[Pete Holmes]

Maybe. I don't think I've ever had a seven second. That's a long time. One, Like, no way. No way. And with comedy, you, if it's in the acceptance, being celebrate whatever it might be. Although that's not exactly what an orgasm is. But, like, you're Getting these hits. But your brain is lighting up in a similar way.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I think stand up. I think do having a good stand up set is probably much closer to the female orgasm than the male orgasm.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, interesting.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Because you like, you can get up and you can sort of have waves and then you can like kind of come back down and then you can build it up again.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that makes so much sense. I actually think you just really filled in something for me because it's like, it's not. Well, like male orgasms seem to be like here's a piece of cake and you just eat it. But like I know what it's like to eek out something and have the last. Like there are jokes that if I don't do that joke before this joke, this joke won't work. So. So. And that's. That sounds like sex talk. It's like if we don't do this, I won't be able to. Good metaphor.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

You gotta ease in. What's. You gotta pay attention to the little things.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, I'm the.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

You can't be in your head.

[Pete Holmes]

Totally. And you have to listen.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You have to listen and look for cues. And I've made this point for. In my one man show. Cheat. Jk. But I'm always like.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And his does condone cheating.

[Pete Holmes]

Mine is pro cheat. I'm into it. Yeah, but it's like you're listening. Like some crowds want you to be more aggressive. Some of them want you to be more self dep. Whatever it means. It's like how much space are they going to take up? How much space am I going to take up? And that is relationship, you could say. Or you could say it's very sexual. It's like this exchange of energies.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You have to be paying attention. You have to sort of ask them what they want.

[Pete Holmes]

Totally.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Each audience is different.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that's why I.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

You. I know each time might be different.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I know. You've seen comedy where you're like, I don't know why, but this feels violating. And I'm not just talking about like filthy comedy.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'll take a filthy joke any day. I can't. What I will not abide is a comedian who's not acknowledging the crowd even in their timing. And they're just doing this thing and everyone's invisible.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm like, we didn't get into this. The crowd or the audience.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

That feels, feels like when you get into a new relationship and you have sex with a new person for the first time and they're doing something really specific and you're like, that was the last one. I understand what she wanted.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right. Good to see what your ex was into.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Then you. You tear off the piece of paper and there's a fresh page.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Let's talk about me.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. One of those giant Sharpie.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. You just write anal. Yeah. And then I write. But to me, that's. I'm writing it now.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

That's good.

[Pete Holmes]

Was that okay? It was good. What happened?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I really got distracted by being like. God damn. The idea of being. If I. If I went into a relationship being like, anal. Only anal.

[Pete Holmes]

Only anal.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Nightmare.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. I don't have a hot riff on that because I don't. I want to respect the anal because there are some anal. Although a lot of gay gays. Gay men. Some. No anal.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Oh, yeah, yeah. It's less about. Yeah, totally. I. I asked my. My friend who is gay, who I am staying with in this. On this trip. Maybe I shouldn't identify. I'm about to say.

[Pete Holmes]

You're going to lg.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I'm gonna. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh. Oh, hey, you. You gotta. Oh, I understand the joke you were doing.

[Pete Holmes]

Wait, is that a Minnesota one again?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

No, I was gonna do a riff about a Wisconsin tourist who was taking a. Who was going on a vacation to a neighborhood in LA called L Gay. And I was picturing it as E. L Gay.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Los Feliz.

[Pete Holmes]

Los Feliz. L. Gay.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And then I understood what you were doing.

[Pete Holmes]

L Gay. It's awful. I like what you did.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Thank you.

[Pete Holmes]

La. L Gay is awful. I did just think about a very traditional man who's very heterosexual and homophobe turning on heated rivalry and just slowly and privately having like the best time. I don't mean turned on. I mean, like, understanding, because there's so much. I'm not trying to be crass. There's just a lot of oral in that show.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Sure.

[Pete Holmes]

Maybe I haven't gotten to the butt stuff.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I have not watched it at all. I think I'm the last person who hasn't seen that show.

[Pete Holmes]

It's all right.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Great. Yeah. That's sort of why I haven't watched it. Because every sense that I got would. Would be that I would be like, I bet it's hot.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. My wife was bonkers bananas for it. And a lot of Taylor Tomlinson was bonkers bananas for it. And I watch it. Look, it's not. It has. It has nothing to do with. Let's not even talk about it. Who Cares. My take on it. It didn't grab me in the way that I was really expecting to be grabbed.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

That's all. Yeah. It grabbed you in your dick.

[Pete Holmes]

Grabbed me in my dick. And I wanted. I wanted boobs in my face.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Ah, sure, sure.

[Pete Holmes]

I thought it was two ladies arguing about which bra fit worse and they're trying on these little bras. Loss. That was the rivalry between the boobs.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes. And it's heated because they're warm.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah. Boobs are warm.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Boobs are warm.

[Pete Holmes]

People forget that.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Grab a cold boob. That's a cadaver. Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. That's really scary. Oh, boy.

[Pete Holmes]

Get out of there.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Imagining a tit being cold. Oh.

[Pete Holmes]

Colder than a witch's tit. Never like that phrase.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. No. Nor have.

[Pete Holmes]

I didn't like saying it.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I don't like how. Yeah, yeah. I don't like it. I don't. I think. I don't like the word tit.

[Pete Holmes]

I hate the word title. Hit. I hate that we're saying it.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I'll say. I'll say, like, yeah, my tits. You know, But I have to say

[Pete Holmes]

it has to for bits.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Tits are for bits. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Boobs are. Are you boobs.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

But yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I mean, boobs is like a soft. It's soft.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

It's just. It's just the best we have.

[Pete Holmes]

We don't. All we have.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

We don't. Boobs is not good. But it's better than anything else. Chest.

[Pete Holmes]

My chest. You know what I hate? Have you ever heard Chicago? Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Awful. Really, really, Really A nightmare.

[Pete Holmes]

I want to meet who came up with chesticles and I'm gonna make a big claim here. That person is asexual. That person doesn't like anything.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

That's probably true.

[Pete Holmes]

They look at a human body in a way that no person that could be turned on by a body could. Does that make sense?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. Or.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't know if I agree with myself.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

It was chesticles.

[Pete Holmes]

Gives me a chill every time.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

It could have been a. A bro who has lied about having a lot of sex.

[Pete Holmes]

It's 40 year old virgin.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

A bag of sand.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And. And she took out her chesticles. Like, first of all, it's really bad. Let's agree that testicles are the worst thing on offer.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

In the fair. We're walking through the fair of body parts. Balls. The poor guy that's selling balls.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, yeah. He's. It's. It's like the camera pans and. And everything's brightly colored and, you know, there's stuffed animals and yes. And then you get to him and he's chewing tobacco, of course. And the, the. The booth is falling apart. Of course he's got wrinkles on his bare scalp.

[Pete Holmes]

And there's regulars that just put a brown paper bag full of money and he just gives them the balls. But it's only the regulars.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

The money is in the brown paper bag. The balls are exposed, of course.

[Pete Holmes]

Cuz that's balls's biggest problem. They're so on display.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like get those things up in there.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, they have to be cool. Shut up. Up. Die.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Have some sperm die for my integrity. And they change.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

They. And they move. They roll.

[Pete Holmes]

They move. You have no idea.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I do. I've looked at them.

[Pete Holmes]

Have you. Have you had a partner that was like let you look at their balls? They won't stop moving.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

It's insane.

[Pete Holmes]

You know this?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes. How do you know this?

[Pete Holmes]

How do you know this? We have a code.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

They sit there.

[Pete Holmes]

We're gonna have to edit this out. You're not even allowed to tell you that. It's.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

It's like the ship feels like something from alien. It is really, it really? Really. Really? Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like the surface of a planet that you shall not trust.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Balls.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like. Have you ever stuck your tongue out in the mirror and realized you can't hold your tongue still either? Don't even do it. Let's not do it. I don't want to freak you out. You stick your tongue out, you can't hold it still. It's always you stick your tongue on the balls.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Now if you ever put your tongue on the balls because there's. There's so much motion there. You know?

[Pete Holmes]

That's what I'm saying.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. You can generate electricity putting a water

[Pete Holmes]

balloon on a water balloon bed.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't like it. Also, no. Guy, I'm gonna. Nobody really likes having their balls licked or anything really. There's no nerve endings. That's the whole point.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

What about mouth around ball?

[Pete Holmes]

No.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Interesting.

[Pete Holmes]

See, you young people, and you're very young all. You're all pornified.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I wonder if. I wonder if.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that wouldn't exist.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I'm just saying I've my mouth crowned a lot of balls. I'm so. I hope my parents never listen. They.

[Pete Holmes]

If they did, they turned it off a long time ago. I just. I don't think it's me. I think it's. It's. It's the idea of. It might be erotic.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

What I am wondering is you put your mouth around the ball. And then if actually what the. In what the feeling is is the connection between the testicle and the rest of the body. Like if. If the feeling is not mouth on ball skin.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

If the. Because I think I've had a positive response very consistently over. I think the happy customers.

[Pete Holmes]

What's erotic there is like, I can't believe she's licking the most disgusting part of me.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Interesting.

[Pete Holmes]

I think it's. It's like that interesting. I could be wrong.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Sensitive, Interesting.

[Pete Holmes]

Not me. This could just be me.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

No, no, no, no.

[Pete Holmes]

Could just be me.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Pete Holmes]

I remember me and Tommy Jonigan were like, boy, I wish my asshole was something other than just pressure. It's just. It's just there's no nerve ending. There's no play. I understand. If you go deep enough.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

If you go in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But we're not talking about that. We're talking about having a drink on the porch.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'd love it. I'd love it if something was there. And I feel the same way about balls. But you've had some five star ball reviews. I thought.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I've had.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, you have.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I look at my. Look at. Pull up me on Google Maps.

[Pete Holmes]

We could.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

If you type in Chloe Radcliffe on Google Maps, you got a lot of five stars.

[Pete Holmes]

Ball sucker. No, that's. That sounded like motherfucker or something.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I just meant like, ballsucker is such a funny.

[Pete Holmes]

Ball sucker.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Ball sucker. Do you mean sucker?

[Pete Holmes]

No, you go right to the balls because the dick is flaccid. When you call someone a ball sucker, they can't even suck the dick because it's flaccid.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So you just go to the balls hoping something will eclipse.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. And I guess that means. Are you also sort of insulting the man who's not hard?

[Pete Holmes]

Well, he doesn't like you because you're a piece of shit.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Ball sucker. Yeah, you're a fucking ball sucker.

[Pete Holmes]

You're just trying and he's going to stop you. Get out of there.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

There are no nerve endings.

[Pete Holmes]

There's no nerve end. Well, I've always likened it to elbow skin. Like, does that feel good?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. I've sucked. You've sucked elbow skin all. Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

You do not.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I have so many positive.

[Pete Holmes]

It's just like, that is the clo. That's how you as a lady can understand what it's like to have a scrub.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

That is helpful. That is very helpful.

[Pete Holmes]

Elbow skin, it's something meant to move. If it's moving, then it's not grooving.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Today.

[Pete Holmes]

Say what?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Life lesson for today.

[Pete Holmes]

Life lesson for today.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

If it's moving, it's not grooving.

[Pete Holmes]

If it's moving, it's not grooving.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And if it's grooving, it's staying still.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, can you like your tongue? Well, let's move on. It's been a filthy podcast. Somebody put this on while they were cleaning up the coffee shop.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, over the speaker. They were like, I picked the wrong episode. Sometimes he talks about God and stuff. Balls.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

You filthy fucking ball sucker. That better get the last person out of that coffee shop.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, yeah, you're welcome.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

This is the episode to put on when you're trying to passively aggressive get everyone to leave. That happens if you have people over for a dinner party, put this episode up and they're not leaving.

[Pete Holmes]

But that's what see podcasts see. Before we film them, I'm going to applaud us. We. We went really filthy, you know, not even. But, you know, we went into like a kind of a taboo.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

A transgressive.

[Pete Holmes]

Transgressive area.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And when this podcast was audio only, that would happen a lot more interesting. Yeah. Once you start filming it, it's like, now there's video.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Like, I heard. I can't remember who it was, but somebody was saying recently, you're. Nobody's going to get canceled from audio. Like, nobody's ever going to. You can say whatever.

[Pete Holmes]

Absolutely horrendous feeling because it's like, you don't know what was in that room. Maybe there was a guy with a gun to your head saying, read what I wrote on that card.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

Audio. Here's a couple examples where that's not true. Billy Bush in the Trump.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

That. Grab a pussy.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yep.

[Pete Holmes]

Sorry. I hated saying that too. That was like the tits of this episode. But they both had a hard time with that. But now that it's artificial intelligence, it's going to be really hard. Imagine it's.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, I more mean from audio podcasts. I don't mean like a hot mic. Plenty of people gotten from hot mic.

[Pete Holmes]

Shaney Gill.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

But I think that was video.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, it was. I think Shane Gillis.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Maybe it was just audio.

[Pete Holmes]

You think?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I think they were already filming.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay. Once you're on snl, audio gets upgraded to. To cancelable evidence that the judge will.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I guess. Here's what I want say. I think Shane, even if they weren't filming at that point, I think Shane is the only example of getting canceled from audio. I Think people are just sort of like, we're not going to sort through those hours. We're not going to listen to your podcast to cancel you. We're not going to.

[Pete Holmes]

But that's what was fun about the early days, was like, it really felt like the only people that are going to hear this are people who want to hear this. And that's why. Why it was a little bit more wild, Wild West.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And now because somebody was like, oh, all the talk shows are going away. And I'm like, they're just podcasts now, of course, but it's.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

They're much more diffused. There's way more of them.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. And people are more well behaved.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Well behaved on podcasts, on podcasts.

[Pete Holmes]

It used to be like, let's go on the show and like, talk about squirting or whatever. And like, that's where you go now. It's like, you don't want to be a gif.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. Now I'm apologizing for telling you a. In retrospect, pretty innocent story.

[Pete Holmes]

Very malad. Very, very malad.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Pretty, pretty mild story about Jimmy.

[Pete Holmes]

Very mild. Amazon Pharmacy presents painful Thoughts. Of course I see my co worker in line at the pharmacy. Can you tell I'm picking up prescription hemorrhoid cream? I'm probably standing weird. Why is he smiling? He knows he's gonna call me hemorrhoid Lloyd tomorrow.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I'm not know it.

[Pete Holmes]

I gotta quit my job. Next time, avoid awkward conversations and get fast free delivery. With Amazon Pharmacy healthcare just got less painful. Did you like writing or do you still do writing? You wrote for Jimmy.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

You still do writing.

[Pete Holmes]

You still do writing. I'm like an awkward uncle at Thanksgiving. You still do writing.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

You're still doing your little skits.

[Pete Holmes]

You do the. You write down the thing and they give you five bucks free coffee.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I love writing. I. After Fallon, I like, really accidentally, like, without intending to, without knowing what I was doing, without realizing what was happening. Sold a movie, sold a screenplay.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, wow.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And a big studio said, great, we're gonna buy this idea and we're gonna pay you to write the first draft. And I did not know how to write a movie. I had been a math major in college at a tiny, bad college in Minnesota that you haven't heard of. And it's like, didn't come from.

[Pete Holmes]

Don't try me. I tore it all over there.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Gustavus Adolphus College.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, I did Gustavus Badolphus.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're easy. That, That's. That's a rival. They're the Swedish Lutheran School and we're the, we're the. No, we're. We're the Swedish Lutheran School. They're the Norwegian Luther.

[Pete Holmes]

Why does it sound like a type of stomach bacteria?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, I mean, something's wrong. Acidophilus. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't like that.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Anyway, basically, like, I have no background in entertainment. I was not like a movie guy growing up. I didn't, I like know so little. I was a speech and debate nerd. I, I did not know how to write a movie. I learned how to write a movie.

[Pete Holmes]

This was early on.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I mean, while that. You mean the, this movie thing you

[Pete Holmes]

had already written for Jimmy.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I'd already written.

[Pete Holmes]

You've never done like a narrative thing.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Correct.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, and what did you do? You pitched the movie.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I literally.

[Pete Holmes]

They go, go write it.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yep.

[Pete Holmes]

Did you buy how to write and

[Chloe Radcliffe]

how to Write a movie in 21 days? Yeah, literally, like checked it out from the Minneapolis library.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, no, wait, you were still living in Minneapolis?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

No, I was living in New York. But I, but I like went, I sold it and then home for Christmas and went to the library and checked these books out and like stood in line feeling like. Do you remember the scene in Legally Blonde where she's in her bunny costume and she's standing with the, with the new Mac computer?

[Pete Holmes]

No.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Okay, great. Anyway, anyway, the. This is for the ladies.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, my Valerie certainly does.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, that's how I felt. I felt like that scene. Yeah, yeah. That is not worth explaining. Anyway, what did you do?

[Pete Holmes]

This is fascinating.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I spent nine weeks slogging through a very bad and unfinished draft.

[Pete Holmes]

Did you outline it?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

No. So that was a big.

[Pete Holmes]

You just started issue.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Fade in.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Or I should say. I like outlined in that. I was like. And then I think this happens. And then I think this happens. And then by about halfway through that, like blocky outline, like.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Now I will do a 20 page outline for a 120 page script. that point, I think what I had for an outline could have filled maybe three quarters of a page. And I got about halfway through the movie and then I was like, and I'll figure the rest out when I get there.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh my God.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Terrified.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And I spent nine weeks, didn't. Didn't have a fully finished script. The producer texted me and was like, how's it going, btw? And I was like, I'll send you what I have nine weeks out of it. Out of what was supposed to be a 10 week period. And he had a. We had a two hour Zoom call where he ripped the script apart rightfully so. It was very bad, very non functional. And I remember texting my best friend after and saying, I feel like crying, but I can't cry because I don't have time to cry. I just have to start writing.

[Pete Holmes]

Because you only had a week to fix it.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

So I thought that I only had a week to fix it. We wound up, up spending the next. We spent three more weeks and I rewrote. I fully rewrote it in those three weeks. So I, at the time I was dating somebody who did a lot of drugs and we did a lot of mushrooms together. I was like at that point I had become like fairly experienced at mushrooms and had and feels so funny. I don't know if you're a psychedelics guy. Yeah, yeah, great. That's a. That was maybe the first tell that I don't.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh no, you don't have to listen to the podcast. Is that what you mean? Yeah, there's too many podcasts.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

There's too many.

[Pete Holmes]

If it was 2007. No. When did we start? It was 2011. I would be like, of course you listen. Yeah, there's only four of us. Yeah, no, don't worry about it. Yes, I, Yes. Let's not change the subject.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Great.

[Pete Holmes]

Just know I know what you're talking about.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Great. And I had one time I'd been like, I, I just. The version of funny that I am on mushrooms is, is my favorite version of funny and I should apply that to punching up a script. I had tried it once during those nine weeks and it was great and like it helped me break a couple big things. But I, I felt like it was like a thing that I could only do when I had enough time. When I felt like finished with a draft, then I so got ripped apart. Spent a week, did much trying to re. Not yet trying to rewrite it. Felt awful. Full dropped all my stand up spots, got sick even though I wasn't leaving the house and I was sleeping enough. But I just like my body was breaking down, felt so the most. My hair was falling out. Everything so bad.

[Pete Holmes]

And this is the movie. I'm just kidding.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And then I went to my boyfriend's place and it was a very, very, very toxic, very unhealthy relationship and I didn't want to be going over to his place but I felt like, but it was the kind of like, like if I don't go over, it's going to be a bigger fight. Oh, yada, yada, yada thing. Bad took mushrooms While I was there as a. Like, sure, whatever. I'll just have a little buzz. Took a lot. Not, not clocking. I, I hadn't thought. Like, I, I, I didn't clock that I had eaten. I didn't clock that I, I wasn't pay. I, like, I was so disturbed. When you're in a toxic situation, you're, like, not paying attention to your own body. Yeah. So I took a lot of mushrooms.

[Pete Holmes]

And this sounds like a great time to be taking mushrooms. And then your hair is falling out, you're stressed, you're in a bad relationship. Let's bring the devil into this.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. Yeah, let's. Let's see if we can look into the deepest corners of our soul.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And I started coming up, and I was. I started tripping, and I was like, you know what I'm gonna read? I just sent a draft of the script to the producer that, like, right before I went over to my boyfriend's house, I was like, I'm. Read that draft that I just, just sent. And I just read it on my phone, the PDF on my phone. And I was like, oh, I can watch the movie as if it's somebody else who did it. And no, I'm getting the note of, like, it's hard to imagine what we're seeing on screen. I haven't put enough on the page. No, we're getting the note of, like, it feels like it's sort of rushing because I'm not. I'm missing so much. All of a sudden, I could see the scenes. I could read the writing as someone else is. I could watch the movie. I could look around in the scene and see what, oh, what did she just put down? A pa Airplane. She should pick that paper airplane back up and, like, throw it right. Like, and that should get us somewhere else. Like, I could do all of that. And then I had. Then I realized that the trip I was on was the. The biggest, the closest to a bad trip that I've ever had. And I had to put my phone down. But I was like, I'm gonna come back to this. And then. And to his credit, my boyfriend got me through that trip.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm like, wait, when did it turn while you were reading it?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I started being like, oh, this is overwhelming.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Even just looking at your phone sounds like a really bad idea.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I always thought that. And then it turns out you just can't get used to it. You can just tell yourself, like, it's okay.

[Pete Holmes]

It's okay to look at your phone.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

When you're on mushrooms.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. Wow. I would put it on do not disturb, and, like, you can just be like, this is fine, and just decide.

[Pete Holmes]

It's funny because whenever I dream that I'm looking at my phone, it always, like, falls apart. Like, oh, interesting. Mind has a hard time.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I never look at. I never look at my phone in my dreams.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. It's how I often notice I'm dreaming. I'm like, this isn't crazy. Korean.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Interesting. One time I was on mushrooms, same boyfriend. And we were out at a restaurant. It was his birthday, and we were like, we're gonna doodle around. And we took some mushrooms, and we sat at a bar in a restaurant, and it wound up within 20 minutes. We were like, this is not the right place for us. We have to leave. But I looked at the receipt, we closed out, and I turned to him and I was like, am I on drugs, or is this receipt in Russian? And he looked at it and he was like, it's in English.

[Pete Holmes]

You're.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

You're just on drugs.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, my God.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I truly was like, this crazy. This is why they print this.

[Pete Holmes]

Eating anything on mushrooms. It's like the tea turns into Jesus on the cross. Like, it seems like it would be a lot.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

It's a lot. It's a lot.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

But you can. You just can decide. Yeah, it's fine.

[Pete Holmes]

I think that's really cool. It speaks to a powerful mind.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Thank you. Thank you so much.

[Pete Holmes]

You're very welcome.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Anyway, I spent the next two weeks tripping five out of seven days a week and writing. And I really completely rewrote the movie

[Pete Holmes]

while you were tripping?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Mostly.

[Pete Holmes]

Wait, I thought if you did mushrooms on Tuesday, they wouldn't work on Wednesday.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

You just have to take more.

[Pete Holmes]

So you just kept taking more and more and more. Five days and writing. We have a different relationship to psychedelics. I like that. That's your noise. That's the perfect noise. AI will never choose that noise. Like, it's the most human appropr. Like, it's weird that, like, both Katie and I are like, that's correct. Like, that's the right. Yeah. For that story. Yeah. Wow.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So coming into the trip and then writing, like, tripping.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I would. I mean, like, once you're in the rhythm. Once I was doing it multiple days in a row, then I would just be like, great. I get up in the morning, I, you know, check my email to make sure nothing's on fire. And then I close my email. Like, I never look at my email for the rest of the day and I just sit down with my notebook or with final draft open. Like once I got. Once you get used to it, you. I can just open final draft on mushrooms and be like, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Wow. And I was.

[Pete Holmes]

So that movie was Sinners. I'm waiting.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And that movie was Megalopolis.

[Pete Holmes]

It does sound like how they came up with multiplicity or something. But. Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

No, that. It's never been made. They had. They had me do a second draft. They liked that first draft enough that they brought me back for a second draft and.

[Pete Holmes]

Wow.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And it's sitting on a shelf somewhere and, you know, I have sort of this like long term dream of like, maybe someday I'll get. I'll become successful enough that I'll be able to call them and be like, yo, yeah, there's a. There's a second rewrite in my contract. Trigger that.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And if I am successful enough that I can. That I have that kind of power.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

What they're paying me for the second rewrite will be absolutely fucking nothing compared to what my actual.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Was it for you to be in or just.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

There was a. There was. Were. Like, write a role for yourself, not. Not me to star in. It's like an office action. It's like a office comedy action. Yep. You get it.

[Pete Holmes]

This is how you pitched it. Yeah, yeah. Like, all right, well, don't just go off and do mushrooms, but you can write it.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

They're like. You do psychedelics. Is that. Is that what I'm getting here? Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So it didn't go anywhere, but you had that experience and you like doing it.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes. And I wrote. I. I had sketched out a small role for myself, and then a bunch of things changed and that role became the main love interest. And so there's like the long term dream of like, maybe I would get to play that.

[Pete Holmes]

Of course I'm a big believer. I don't know. It's sort of unfounded. But I'm like, people tell me about shows they wrote, movies they wrote. They didn't go anywhere or even jokes. And then I'm like, just bring it back. Sometimes it's the wrong time. Like, Chris Fleming has his amazing special role right now. It also just so happens to be the perfect, exact right time. Chris was funny 10 years ago. You know what I mean? And then like, this is the time. So maybe. Maybe it does come back.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. Yeah, maybe that comes back. Yeah. I mean, the. Like, I've been envisioning my solo show Cheat as a TV show for years.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And like, if that happens, it hasn't happened yet.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

But I still have to be like, I think it still could.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And I. I am excited for. You know, it's like there. And the times when you're looking down the barrel of like, it's been X amount of years is a very scary. That's a very scary barrel to look down to. Feel like since you. Oh, just like I've been. I've been wanting this for so long and it hasn't happened. And like, if it was going to happen, it would have happened by now.

[Pete Holmes]

The TV show.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

The TV show or anything. And you know, the. I'm was funny 10 years ago and I'm not big, you know, whatever. Right. Like insert. Whatever the thing is. And I have done a lot of. I have worked very, very hard to make. To get my brain into. Like, it's. That's a. That kind of thinking is a waste of time.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And it has to just be like, I want this and I believe in it and I believe in myself.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. I always. I remember Bill, you know, Bill Burr didn't break until he was 40, in his 40s. And I'm not saying that's what's going to happen for you. I'm just saying, like, it's always nice to remember number. It's not really about. I'm not giving you advice. I'm just saying what I told myself.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's not. It doesn't really work like that.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

People are waiting to see something in the moment where they were waiting for that something.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And that's what it is to, like, have something click.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

That's all. So when you do. This is towards the end here, just so you don't feel like you're gonna explode or have to pee. You doing okay?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I'm good. I'm great.

[Pete Holmes]

We do talk about the meaning of life, but it's. It's very. It's very, very. I'm the substitute teacher. That's like. Poetry's like rap.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. Yeah. And rap is like commercials.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm the master rapper and I'm here

[Chloe Radcliffe]

to say thank you.

[Pete Holmes]

Every rap in the 80s started with. And I'm here to say. Even the cool ones. Yeah. I wonder. You don't have to take it from psychedelics, but often psychedelics lead to epiphanies or revelations about the meaning of life. Or they can.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

So either that's a nice way in or you can just abandon it and talk about it unrelatedly.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

So here. Here's. I'm about to. I'm. I'm about to bring something up that I feel like we could then talk about for another hour and a half.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

My parents are hippies and like. Like capital hippies. Like, they met at a transcendental meditation teacher training course.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, well. And your dad was David lynch.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And they. We, like, we would go to, like, David lynch fundraisers. Yeah, yeah. Like. Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I wonder if they knew my person who. Who taught me. Me. It doesn't matter.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

My mom watched Andy Kaufman perform, do standup at a meditation retreat before he was famous. And he was just like the wacky guy who was like, can I do

[Pete Holmes]

a. Oh my God.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Can I do like a skit for you guys?

[Pete Holmes]

That's incredible. Wow.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Crazy.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, so they're super hippies.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Super, super, super hippies. And I was raised to believe in reincarnation. Like, we have talked about reincarnation since. For my. I mean, like forever. We went to a family psychic. We went.

[Pete Holmes]

I mean, like, you had the family psychic, all that. It's on the speed dial.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Christopher.

[Pete Holmes]

Call Christopher. Was that psychic any good?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I loved him. I haven't talked to him in years.

[Pete Holmes]

But what was he? What is the word? Omniscient. No permission.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Like pre. A. Precog. Minority Report.

[Pete Holmes]

Great movie. Tom Cruise. Tom Segura.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Tom Hanks.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Tom Arnold.

[Pete Holmes]

Tom Arnold. Thank you. Thank you. Very good.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I don't know who he is, but I can remember a name.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes, and you should, because you're dating him now.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

This is what you realize. You're now dating Tom Arnold.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Anyway, all that said is my. The. The worldview that I was raised. Raised in and that I still ascribe to is that a soul is on the earth to learn a lesson, to learn lessons. That the whole purpose of life, basically, it's that, like, the universe is a cycle. And it starts with the presence of the divine, whatever that is God, but it. Not like a guy on a cloud, Whatever the God thing is, is all one. And then it splits into infinite fragments. Those are souls. And then those souls reincarnate over and over and over, over. And when you learn all your lessons, you rejoin with the divine.

[Pete Holmes]

Uhhuh.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

That's what I basically. What? And then. And then once all the souls have rejoined with the divine, then the cycle starts right over. You split and it goes forever.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

That's what I was raised under. In that context, the meaning of life is basically like, you are just here to keep learning whatever the next lesson Is.

[Pete Holmes]

And contribute that to the collective. Kind of.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, I guess so. But the idea is that, like, your learning is, like, inherent, currently contributes.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, that's cool.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And that it's just growing. It's all like, the whole purpose is just to grow and get better.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. I. I dig that. Like, so the oneness split and, like, compromised itself. Like, risked pain, risked loss, risked loneliness, but wanted so badly to grow or. Or experience. My daughter's name is Leela. It's means the play of life. Your parents would know that.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Here didn't know that. I didn't deduct.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I know.

[Pete Holmes]

Christopher would have known that. No, that's a big word in. In hippie culture, but it's a. It's a Sanskrit word. It's from Hinduism and Buddhism, but it's that. It's the play. We're just doing this play for its own purpose, for its own pleasure.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

You're with that.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I think. I think it is that more than like, the oneness wanted something or risked. It's just. Just there it is just happening.

[Pete Holmes]

We really agree with that.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Because I'm going to quote Rupert Spiro right now, my favorite. He would say, if the divine, which is perfect oneness, had a purpose for manifesting that purpose would have displaced its infinitude.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

It can't have a purpose by being complete wholeness.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

It can't go. I'm gonna go learn.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

It's just like a fountain. It's just its nature sure to keep expressing itself in ever changing expressions of creativity. I like how you're saying yes. So I want to keep going.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay. I dig it.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

So that. Yeah, so, so. And. And like, that shows up to me. It's like you. You. You keep experiencing sort of the same thing over and over and over until you learn whatever that lesson is and you can break that pattern.

[Pete Holmes]

And I.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

There's a million things that I'm like Jesus Christ. I keep experiencing a version of the same thing over and over and over.

[Pete Holmes]

And we see that even if you're not a spiritual person, obviously we see like, oh, I keep a classic would be I keep dating my mother. And like, it's because I haven't yet learned to fill my own cup and not look for, like, Alain Dubouton, who comes up a lot. Alan Debutton comes up a lot on this podcast.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Now you have to apologize to the friend.

[Pete Holmes]

I know I'm. And the Germans. All of World War II will be Alan Dubiton. Alan Debutton. I don't know how to say it. You know who I'm talking about? School of life.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You know who I'm talking about? He says, like, a lot of times people are just going into relationship to be hurt in a way that's familiar to them.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So they. You need to like.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Because that is. That is safe and that is. No, it is. It is what. What is known is comfortable. Even if. Even if the. The like superficial is uncomfortable. It is actually deeply, deeply, deeply comfortable.

[Pete Holmes]

We can at least we have a game plan for this type of toxicity. But then, like, I look at Valerie, who is not, I'm proud to say,

[Chloe Radcliffe]

like, in a toxic relationship.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah. She's not. But she's also. She doesn't hurt. She doesn't hurt me full stop.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But she doesn't hurt me in a way that I used to kind of want unconsciously to be hurt. So we do say, see this.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, there are lessons that are going around and there. And there is ancestral. Like even the science folks are getting into, like the way that trauma can impact genes and people have certain things, certain behaviors. Certainly. I think. I think it's very interesting. So even if you're not spiritual, like, this idea is in our lives, like this idea of evolving. Growing, learning.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, yeah. And repeating until you.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Can grow.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah. And why do you attract that? Like, sometimes just the way someone looks, you're drawn to them and, you know.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And this is what.

[Pete Holmes]

You know.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You know.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, yeah. You know, this is why, to me, I think that the. The. The belief in the presence of a divine, a God in some way, the oneness, whatever. The belief in the presence of a divine is the exact inverse of the belief in pure coincidence. And that, like that. That though, that's the.

[Pete Holmes]

You can't have pure coincidence and the divine.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah, I guess. I guess. Or, you know, maybe it's a spectrum and you can sort of sit somewhere in the fuzzy middle. But like. Yeah, that really. If you believe everything is a coincidence, then that means that there is no. There is no orchestration. And if you believe that everything is orchestrated, then there is no coincidence.

[Pete Holmes]

Interesting. I. I'm. Yep. Okay, go on.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And I don't necessarily mean orchestrated like moving pieces, just bored. But like that we are all tapped into the same grid.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes, yes.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And that, like, every pluck of that

[Pete Holmes]

grid plucks something else we're moving away from. God, help me find a parking spot into. Just like this is all an expression of something that by definition has A meaning.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Connection.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes, Connection and meaning.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And that is, to me, it's the moments where you're like, when you just look at somebody and, and you're like, well, that's the person I'm going to talk to.

[Pete Holmes]

I know.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And you just can feel it.

[Pete Holmes]

I know.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And then they fit into whatever.

[Pete Holmes]

Yep.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Whatever shelf you need them to. Or always put them in. Or need them not to. Whatever.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah. But it's exactly the lesson that you were kind of looking for.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. That to me, that is so representative of why I am. Like, there is a divine, though. There is not. Like, it's not pure coincidence. It's not. There is. I do see meaning. I do see connection.

[Pete Holmes]

Have you had experiences that you can't explain? It's kind of hard to put people on the spot with that question.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I mean, I have had stuff that feels so orchestrated. I don't know about, like, can't explain. Yeah, but that is so this, I mean, this, the, the unhealthy relationship that I was in.

[Pete Holmes]

Double Mushrooms.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Double Mushrooms. Double Mush.

[Pete Holmes]

Dub Mush.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

We. This is like such a simple. This is such a rom com version of this. But like, we had met three years ago. Three years before he built. Built. Do you know the venue? Do you remember the venue subculture in New York? Great venue. Now. Now gone, now dead. He built that venue. And I had done a show in the, in there and I was the last one in the venue and I was listening to this audio nerd talk about the venue and he was weird and he kind of didn't shut the up and like, didn't really get. Let me get a word in. And I was sort of like, that's sort of funny. Like, this is not really a person who I would necessarily want to hang out with. But like, it's very interesting to listen to him talking. And then I rode my bike home and I didn't think anything of it. And then three years later I sat, I went there. There was like a series of things that night that got me to this party that like, wouldn't have. You know, it's like this and this and this and this. And then I sat down at the one open seat that was across from him and he was like, oh, I've seen you. I've. I, I know you. I've seen you before. And I was like, oh, have you seen me do standup? And he was like, I. Or yes, he said, I've seen you do stand up. What show was it at? And I was like, I've done So many. And he was like, no, I really know you. And then I literally just looked at him and was like, did we meet three years ago? And are you that guy? And he was like, I'm that. There we go. That's what it is. And then what was. There was another thing that happened that night. I can't remember what. There were a couple other things that night that we met where that just felt so, like,

[Pete Holmes]

you know, I agree. I. This isn't as interesting as that, but I always say, like, what are the chances that because Valerie, my perfect person, would also look like exactly what I'm attracted to? Like, why is that? I mean, like, Val and I are exactly aligned. And she just so happens in a very superficial way. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's bizarre.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I have an ending to that.

[Pete Holmes]

Go ahead.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Actually, that I. Wow. This is. Okay, this is crazy. I've never talked about this. This just. It happened relatively recently, but I haven't really talked about it much. So that relationship was very, very, very unhealthy. A lot my friends, the people who love me, would call it abusive. It's both hard to call something abusive. And also, like, they didn't see any of the good. And there was good. And that is a complicated element in. In toxic relationships that people don't talk about. And. Yeah, we dated for about two years. Years. We're still talking for another six months. I started dating my now partner and then wound up cutting off all communication with my ex going on three years ago, probably three years ago. And he was actively suicidal while we were dating. He attempted suicide while we were dating. We would, like, it was very, very, very, very dark. He would, like, call me having a panic attack in the middle of the night. And I would take an Uber. He was sleeping on the. On the floor of a windowless basement. I would, like, take an Uber over and sleep on the floor with him to get through the night kind of thing. Oh, yeah. Anyway, okay, I. We haven't talked in two, three years, whatever it is. And I have truly been like, I wonder. I wonder if he's okay. I literally wonder if he's alive. I wonder. So I wonder so many things. And I've spent two years being like, I wonder if I'm going to run into. I'm definitely going to run into him in New York. He doesn't work in comedy, but, like, whatever. And wondering when that was gonna happen. Last December 30th of this past year, a friend of mine was in Waiting for Godot on Broadway My friend is not Keanu Reeves.

[Pete Holmes]

My friend is Ted.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. My friend is not neither Bill nor Ted. My friend is one of the people who. You don't know who he is.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And he was like, you should come see Waiting for your dough and I'll put you on the list for the cast bar afterward. Cool, cool, cool. And he goes, oh, Bradley Cooper was he. And I was in. I was just in a Bradley Cooper movie recently. He was like, bradley was here a couple nights ago. We talked about how great you are. I was like, oh fuck, I can't believe I wasn't fucking there that night. I went to the cast bar afterward and I walked in.

[Pete Holmes]

Rock the Cast Bar.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Rock the Caspar. We don't like it.

[Pete Holmes]

We both need to be thinking it. We both need to be thinking it. So you went to Rock the cast bar.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And it's the third floor in a building in Times Square. I walk in, I look out the window.

[Pete Holmes]

No.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And there's a building. And I was like, God, I feel like I've been in that apartment before. It's this very distinctive looking. It's just a building in, in on 42nd street or whatever the street. But like just this distinctive went on. I was like, God, that really looks like a. An apartment that I've been in before. And I was like, oh yeah, it's. It's my ex's friend's apartment and it's this huge. I can show you the video. It's this huge picture window, giant picture window lit up, bright lights front on the inside. And my ex is sitting in the window on. And it just happens to be a third floor floor facing the third floor cast bar window.

[Pete Holmes]

Keep going, keep going.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And I can see him sitting there playing cards with another guy. He's sitting at the window basically at the window, full profile.

[Pete Holmes]

This is nuts.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And I stood and stared for 60, 90 seconds and then a woman came up and noticed me looking and I like stepped into the shadows in the cast bar Caspar and was like of course rocked. And the. One of the weirdest things of it. And. And then I, I watched her like say to. And. And the guy my ex was playing friends with was the guy whose apartment it is. I was like, that's, that's that guy. I know him, you know. And I watched her like point me out. And they both looked, but she didn't. I didn't know her. So she was just like someone staring. And they both were like eh, whatever ever went back to their game. The two most insane things are one earlier that night. So I have spent two years wondering, when am I going to run into my ex in New York? Am I going to see him on the subway? Am I going to see him at a venue? Am I going to. Whatever. I've never thought that I saw him. I've never. I've looked at people and been like, oh, that looks like. But I've never been like, oh, is that my ex? Earlier that night, I was in Best Buy buying a Christmas present for me. My belated Christmas present. If anybody's following along with the dates, it's December 30th at this point for my boyfriend. And I'm going down the escalator in Best Buy in Union Square, and a guy in front of me. A guy steps in front of me. So I see his face. I see this man's face. It is not my ex. And he stands in front of me on the escalator down. And I was so gripped by, like, is this him? That I had to. And I was like, no, you saw his face. It's not him. He looked a lot like him.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. But I literally had to do an inventory down this man's body of being like, is that the shape of his head? No. Is that the shape of his shoulders? No. Is that.

[Pete Holmes]

So it wasn't a passing thing. You really was gripped by it.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And the thing that broke it for me was I looked at his hands, and I was like, that's not his hands. And I was like, God, that's weird. I've never had that experience before. And then three hours later, I saw. And it really felt like my, you know, me on the grid was. Was like, it's gonna happen tonight.

[Pete Holmes]

Right? Just so you know.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And I just was like, a little. Either it was like, hey, heads up. It's gonna happen, or that I was like, where is he? I'm about to see him. I'm about to see him. Is it this guy? Is it this? It's not this guy.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. You were ahead of yourself.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

I was ahead of myself. And then another insane thing is I then saw the next day a. A reel from the guy whose apartment. It was saying, yo, from a couple days before being like, it's happening. I'm finally getting kicked out of that legendary apartment. So I'm having party before I have to leave on the 31st. Everybody come over. And it was, like, from a couple days earlier. And I didn't follow this guy. So I was just, like, looking him up later and was like, wow. I saw him the last chance I Would ever have to see him.

[Pete Holmes]

And he's gone.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

In this apartment. I happened to be standing in the rock the cast bar across the street. They leave tomorrow and they leave tomorrow.

[Pete Holmes]

And you had a premonition.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

And I had a premonition.

[Pete Holmes]

Premonitions.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Anyway. Yeah. Yeah. A great band.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Really?

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Evanescence. Evanescence. Can't wake up, Wake me up.

[Pete Holmes]

I've always wanted. That was a great story. You can. The song Torn. Where she goes.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Natalie and bruga.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm all out of faith. Wake me up. This is how I wake me up.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Call me an incredible mashup.

[Pete Holmes]

Mashup. I don't care. You can have this idea for free. The end Internet. That song.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

An incredible mashup.

[Pete Holmes]

And Natalie Imbruglia.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Natalie Torn.

[Pete Holmes]

My favorite kind of salon. Imbruglia. It's terrible. You've been a delight. Thank you so much. Go, Mike.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Imbruglia is one of my favorite comedians.

[Pete Holmes]

I haven't had arugula since before Y2K.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Anyway, I thank you for having me.

[Pete Holmes]

I, of course. Is this. Does that feel. This is about exactly when I need to go.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Yeah. Let's get you out of here. Here.

[Pete Holmes]

Let's get you out of here.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Thank you.

[Pete Holmes]

Thank you so much. Plug anything you want. Up top. You were a delight. I really enjoyed. This is awesome. Thank you for doing it. Would you say. Because I know you don't listen to the show. What if I was mad? The guest says, keep it crispy. It's written down over there. If you can't remember your lines. But straight to camera. It doesn't mean anything.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Keep it crispy.

[Pete Holmes]

I like that. You didn't do it straight to camera.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

To be honest. Great.

[Pete Holmes]

Made it more natural. Great. Thank you so much.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Thank you so much. Yeah. You may win.

[Pete Holmes]

You may win. You may win.

[Chloe Radcliffe]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You made it. We. Yes. You made it.