Chris Evans

Summary

You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes – Chris Evans (June 21, 2023)

Episode Overview

On this special episode, host Pete Holmes welcomes Chris Evans for their first in-depth conversation. Famous for Captain America and roles in Knives Out and Ghosted, Evans joins Pete to share candid reflections on acting, fame, vulnerability, creativity, and the search for inner peace. The two, both originally from the Boston area, dive deep into their shared weirdness, philosophies of life and art, and the universal journey toward contentment.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Boston Roots and Early Influences

(04:22 - 09:45)

• Pete and Chris immediately bond over their Massachusetts upbringing, comparing hometowns, schools, and local haunts like Newbury Comics and the Burlington Mall.

• Both fondly recall the impact of Good Will Hunting on young artists from Boston. Evans recounts meeting Ben Affleck and being starstruck, demonstrating his vulnerability.

  "[Affleck’s] a big guy, you know, and I just... I couldn't make sentences, and I just got starstruck. I got... yeah."
  —Chris Evans (09:45)

2. Vulnerability in Comedy and Acting

(11:39 - 17:34)

• Pete praises Chris’s visible vulnerability, connecting it to the core of comedic and dramatic performance.

• Chris admits it takes days on set before he relaxes, and only after the fact does he truly unlock a scene, highlighting the perpetual struggle with presence in creative work.

  "About a week after the scene is over...that's when I figure it out. That's when I'm like, oh my God, I just unlocked it."
  —Chris Evans (13:12)

• They discuss how feelings during a performance rarely match how the work appears onscreen.

3. Truth, Honesty, and Actor Envy

(13:48 - 19:36)

• Chris reflects on the elusive nature of authenticity in acting and how some actors (like Robert Downey Jr., Scarlett Johansson, Tommy Lee Jones) bring an inherent magnetic quality he envies.

  "I don't think that anyone, if they're just 100% honest, is going to be interesting on film. I think some people, even if they are maybe not a hundred percent present in the scene, can still be dynamic on camera."
  —Chris Evans (16:21)

4. Learning by Imitation & The Actor’s Craft

(19:15 - 32:49)

• The conversation covers the mimicry involved in both comedy and acting, from Brad Pitt’s posture to learning lines in a script “wrong” to break the expected rhythm.

• Chris shares his method of studying greats (like downloading film scripts and watching corresponding performances) to understand nuance.

  "It's like, you know, practicing basketball with Jordan...you get to kind of watch what the greats do."
  —Chris Evans (29:09)

5. Ego vs. Presence – The Art & Struggle of Surrender

(21:32 - 35:56)

• They delve into Alan Watts’s philosophy of childlike presence, the moment ego intrudes, and the lifelong challenge of returning to “now.”

• Chris contemplates groundedness and presence as essential for both better acting and better living, relating acting breakthroughs to moments of surrender.

  “The surrendering to the moment, whether it's in life or in your performance...to be comfortable and to surrender to now. Because in now is everything.”
  —Chris Evans (21:32)

6. Contentment, Perspective & Cosmic Awe

(39:13 - 48:46)

• Chris describes achieving contentment through cosmic perspective—a “big space nut,” the sense that we are a miracle of chance.
• Sharing how awe, especially in nature, brings tranquility and gratitude:

  "It's a miracle to be here. I was just getting out of my car the other day...think of the sliding door ripple effect that that one choice would have had..."
  —Chris Evans (41:06)

7. Peace Practices & Routines

(45:08 - 54:14)

• Evans details his mental routines for peace: living in nature, appreciating the seasons, maintaining a sense of awe.

• He shares a practical anxiety hack—mentally telling himself, “let’s go on a vacation from these thoughts for six hours” to quiet night-time anxiety.

  “Let’s just say, how about for the next six hours, we just go on a vacation? ... those problems will be here tomorrow morning, and we’ll tackle them all then.”
  —Chris Evans (51:00)

8. Meditation, Ego, and Spiritual Teachers

(54:14 - 57:45)

• The discussion turns to Eckhart Tolle, Ram Dass, and the idea that “you are not your thoughts.”
• Both agree peace comes from “sky identification” (awareness) rather than identifying with passing thoughts (clouds).

9. Societal Ego and Social Media

(57:02 - 61:36)

• Chris laments the internet’s effect on our egos, referencing fire, the Internet, and the wheel as history’s most impactful inventions.

• Pete posits hope that social media could lead to spiritual awakening by showing the emptiness of external validation.

  “You don't wake up from dreams, you wake up from nightmares.”
  —Chris Evans (59:36)

10. Spirituality in Film & Storytelling

(61:05 - 69:18)

• Chris and Pete reflect on films' power to communicate deep truths (The Matrix, The Truman Show, Lucy, Marvel movies) and the challenge Evans feels portraying spiritual meaning through acting.

  “As an actor, it's hard to come up with projects that you think can help move that needle. Because I think it's right.”
  —Chris Evans (61:36)

11. Interconnectedness, Nature, and Letting Go

(72:05 - 78:47)

• They touch on David Foster Wallace’s “This Is Water,” the interconnectivity of all things, and how animals (like Chris’s dog) model pure presence.
• Evans says, “I'm in awe of things. I’m just blown away by stuff... and that awe really drops you into the moment.” (46:04)

12. Introversion, Identity, and Social Roles

(80:08 - 82:18)

• Evans ponders the burden of identity in the film industry, craving solitude as a break from self-consciousness. Pete and Chris agree introverted moments grant true relief from the “scripts” others give us.

13. Speed Round & Memorable Moments

(83:19 - end)

• Ghosts: Chris is skeptical, noting the egocentric focus: “Are only humans ghosts or can animals be ghosts? And I go mosquitoes. Are they everywhere?” (84:17)

• UFOs: Chris believes in extraterrestrials: “If you don’t believe there’s life out there, you need to read a book.”

• Psychedelics: He expresses support for therapeutic psychedelic use.

• Laughing Hardest: Chris describes getting uncontrollable giggles with Hemsworth during an Avengers press junket, relishing childlike laughter.

  "My friends say I’m a real... it’s why I’m not funny. I think everything is hilarious, especially when you know you shouldn’t be laughing." —Chris Evans (93:14)

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Notable Quotes by Timestamp

• On Actor Envy:
  “I’m certainly envious of those actors that just have the capacity, the Downeys, the Scarlets, that can just sit and exist and...I’ll watch a whole movie of this.” (16:53)

• On Surrendering to the Moment:
  “Now holds everything. It holds the joy, it holds the sadness...Once you get to that point of...analyze the past and worry about the future, the now is hard to hang on to.” (21:32)

• On Cosmic Perspective:
  “It’s a miracle. It’s an absolute miracle to even exist. And that alone has really brought me a deep, deep sense of calm.” (41:06)

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Episode Timestamps – Important Segments

• Boston Upbringing & Early Inspiration: 04:22 – 09:45
• Vulnerability and Set Nerves: 11:39 – 13:48
• Acting Method & Comparing to Other Actors: 13:48 – 17:34
• Learning from the Greats: 29:09 – 32:49
• Cosmic Awe & Contentment: 39:13 – 47:07
• Peace Routines & Anxiety Hacks: 45:37 – 52:55
• On Social Media & Ego's Collapse: 57:20 – 59:36
• Philosophy in Film: 61:05 – 69:18
• Speed Round (ghosts, UFOs, psychedelics, laughing fits): 83:51 – End

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Memorable Moments

• Chris being open about his awkwardness and anxiety meeting Ben Affleck and on set.

• Spiritual wisdom peppered throughout, including Alan Watts, Ram Dass, and Eckhart Tolle.

• Evans shares a simple but powerful method for peace: "Let's just go on a vacation from these thoughts."

• The comic back-and-forth on ghosts and the idea that mosquitoes could be ghosts:

  "Ghosts to me are a very egocentric concept."
  —Chris Evans (84:35)

• The joy of breaking down into laughter during press junkets, revealing the playful side of the Marvel family.

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Final Tone & Closing

Throughout the episode, Pete and Chris maintain a tone that's thoughtful, warm, and refreshingly honest—never shying from metaphysical tangents or gentle self-deprecation. The conversation is peppered with jokes, humility, spiritual insights, and a heartfelt desire for truth and connection. It’s an episode as weird as it is wise—true to the podcast’s spirit.

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Keep it crispy!

Transcript

[A]

You made it with.

[B]

You made it with. You made it with. Oh, yeah, you made it with. You made it weird with Pete Holmes. What's happening, weirdos? For real, for real. What is happening? Chris Evans is on the podcast today. Chris Evans, he's in the new Apple TV movie, Ghosted with, which is hilarious and wonderful. He's in Knives Out. He's in Captain America. Ever heard of it? Ever heard of it? I also just rewatched the Gray man, which he's in with Daddy Gosling. And he's incredible. He's so funny, he's so charming, he's so talented. And in this conversation you're about to hear, he's so intelligent, deep and brilliant. I mean, what a thrill. We've never met irl and we were so happy to sit down and chat for the first time that you're about to hear. This is our first long hang after a few exchanges online. And it went so well and I'm so happy to share it with you. Go watch Ghosted on Apple tv. Just anything, anything, anything. Chris Evans is in. Go check it out. And if you'd like to see me live, I'm currently on tour. Thank you. First of all, to everybody, we sold out Royal Oak, Michigan, which was so fun. Cleveland, Ohio, was so fun. Coming up next is New York, New York. Haven't been to New York, New York since 2019. It's going to be great to be back. Then Ridgefield, Connecticut. Then I'll be in Denver, St. Louis, Raleigh, North Carolina, and then Salt Lake City. All of those are [e-mail] I love this new hour. I'm so excited. We actually just filmed it, but I'm still touring it because the special won't be on Netflix until October. And I shot it and it was so fun. And I'm going to keep touring it because I'm in love with it. I love performing it. Hope you can see it. Peteholmes.com for tickets. Speaking of my special, when I, you know, obviously you're going to tape your special. You want to look good. This is 100% real. I wore, no Doubt, my perfect jeans. This episode is brought to us by our friends at the Perfect Gene and evidence that I legit love the perfect jean. Not only when I want to feel good, because they are the best pants I've ever owned. They're soft, but it's like a soft Secret. It's 2% spandex, 2.5% rayon for extra comfort and movement that your man parts require. But they also look like designer jeans, they have the best washes and the best cuts, and they look incredible. And they're made from the best quality sewing techniques and materials. Meaning I have all my jeans are perfect jeans. And they never need to be replaced. And they move. They're flexible, they're soft, comfortable pants. They're not yoga pants. They are jeans, but they stretch so your nuts ain't crushed, thereby providing the only true home for your bone with specialized washing for your jeans. So they feel literally as soft as a baby's butt. You might even forget you're wearing pants. And as I said, they're constructed utilizing the best quality materials and sewing techniques to provide you with a product that is built to last. And they're not khakis, although they're. They do make Jean khakis. And those are my new favorite. They also make hoodies, which are my new favorite hoodies. I'm obsessed with their hoodies. I'm obsessed with their T shirts. I wore one of their white crisp T shirts for my special as well. And I wore their athletic cut. Dark blue. Dark blue. Dark blue. Great jeans. I wore these dark blue jeans for my special and they look incredible. So check them out. I absolutely love them and I reached out to them to sponsor the show and that's how we got here. So the perfect gene for perfectly imperfect men. 20% off when you use code weirdo at checkout. Liberate your lower limbs with the one and only perfect gene. Whether you're working with lemons or lentils, a three leaf clover, or a big old honkin eggplant, the perfect gene has you covered. You can look good and feel good. Take a peek at theperfectgene nyc. That's www.theperfectgenet j e a nyc. Use code weirdo for 20% off at checkout. Support your body, look good, and support this show. All right, everybody, Hope to see you on the road. In the meantime, enjoy this chat with the incredible, the incomparable Chris Evans. Get into it.

[A]

Hello. Hello.

[B]

Shaboopy. What fun. This is so cool, man. Thank you for doing this.

[A]

Good to meet you.

[B]

It's great to meet you. I'm. I'm so excited. Where are you right now?

[A]

I'm in Massachusetts. This is home base.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Where? Maybe you don't want to say where.

[A]

I probably won't.

[B]

You live on Plymouth Plantation. I. I've known this about you.

[A]

That's right. Original colony.

[B]

I actually, I'm gonna try. I almost said, dude, I'm gonna try and curb my Dudes. But I was doing a little research. Obviously, I'm a huge fan of yours, but I didn't know you were from Boston. Did you know I'm from Boston?

[A]

Are you really?

[B]

Yeah. Well, I'm. I'm born in Boston, but I'm from Lexington.

[A]

Get the out of here.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Crazy. Born in Boston is what, Brigham?

[B]

Yeah. Brigham?

[A]

Yeah. What? Same hospital, man.

[B]

Yeah. And I lingered there for a few years, so I might have been nearby when you were born. Isn't that wild?

[A]

Oh, I thought you meant you lingered at the hospital for your view. You weren't quite ready to leave.

[B]

No, I did. No, I did. That's what I meant. It was a joke. Yeah, I just kind of was like, I have a feeling that an actor I'll enjoy is going to be born any minute now.

[A]

That's crazy. Then Lexington. When did you leave there?

[B]

I was in Lexington until I started doing standup when I was in college. Is that right? Yeah, college. So I performed in Faneuil hall at the Comedy Connection. Did you ever go there?

[A]

No, I didn't.

[B]

So you had.

[A]

Yeah. You.

[B]

You don't want to go there.

[A]

Grew up in Lexington. You're from Massachusetts.

[B]

I went, yeah. My.

[A]

I like Jeffrey R. I.

[B]

Well, that's what's funny is, like, people from Boston do tend to, like, I feel like, attract each other and there's something going on. My. I went to school in Cambridge, though, not Harvard. I went to grade school in Cambridge. So, like, Harvard Square. That was like my. That's where the hang was going to. Like Newberry Comics and the Pit.

[A]

Newbury Comics.

[B]

Right. No. Get the fuck out of here.

[A]

Really? I love Newbury Comics. Of course.

[B]

The Anarchist Cookbook. Remember the Anarchist Cookbook? Before we had the Internet, it was that black book that told you how to make napalm and stuff. It was like. It was like a printout of all the naughty bits of the Internet before the Internet and all the T shirts I still have. There's a T shirt of Richard Nixon and Elvis when they met in the Oval Office. And they sold this at Newberg Comics. My friend Ern just gave this to me, and we used to love it. It's just a picture of them shaking hands. And underneath it it says, we're dead. And that was. That was just. That's. That's the humor of Newbery Comics was.

[A]

Both these motherfuckers gifts. You ever go to. I mean, the Natick Mall? No, it was a Framingham. All right. Because Shoppers World.

[B]

I was a Burlington Mall. You were Natick Mall?

[A]

Yeah. No, I was. Well, Natick Mall had the outdoor thing.

[B]

It was.

[A]

It was Shoppers World. It's where you go to see Santa in the winter, but then think, no, the big one was in Framingham, right next to AMC on flipping.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Well, that means.

[B]

It's funny that you say that, man, because when I saw Goodwill Hunting at. In Woburn, the Woburn Cinema, and you can see that from 128. So when I'm in Fucking Woven, I drive by and I look at that theater with such fondness, because that was the movie. I'm sure it was for you, too. I don't mean to project onto you. I just mean kids from Boston that wanted to be in show business. I look at Woburn, I think it's an amc. I don't know. I look at that as, like, not hallowed ground. But that's a special place for me because remember when you'd see a movie and you'd, like, go for a drive afterwards, me and my friend, you had. You couldn't. You couldn't go home. You had to, like, cruise a little bit in my friend John O'Reilly's car. We just drove and thought about our lives and how badly we wanted to be Ben and Matt. Did you have that thing with good.

[A]

Content, typically to the soundtrack of Good Will Hunting. What was it? Smith.

[B]

Elliot Smith.

[A]

Yeah. Like what? Good drive, Reflective. Yes. Depressing. Yes.

[B]

Of course.

[A]

Go inside to. Yeah.

[B]

And were they. Again, not to project, but for me, seeing kids, they went to Ring in Latin, you know, they were. I guess if we can call ourselves townies. I don't know if that's just Charlestown. I've never known exactly, but we're from that area. Seeing those guys kind of make it in film, did that have an impact on you?

[A]

Course. I mean, not only did I love that movie, but, I mean, they. They set the bar so high right out of the gate. You know what I mean? They weren't just in a great movie. They wrote the thing.

[B]

Right?

[A]

They wrote the fucking Oscars. You know what I mean? You're like, all right, just take step by step, guys. You don't have to finish the race. Yeah.

[B]

And they took their fucking mom to the Oscars.

[A]

Yeah. Which is like.

[B]

I mean, you're out showing all of us and kids.

[A]

Yeah, I was so. I remember the first time I met Ben Affleck, I was auditioning for what was the. Not. Not the town. Gone, Baby Gone. And I remember it was just a general. And I showed up and I. I Parked outside, came inside, walking down the hallway, looking for this one office building. And I passed a room, and I heard someone go, there he is. And I was like, that was bad. That was bad. And I kind of cruised back in. I. I shook his hand, and just right away, I just got so fucking nervous. Just. Yeah, uncontrollably. He's a big guy, you know, And I just.

[B]

Yeah, and broad shoulders. His shoulders are so broad.

[A]

That's the chest look.

[B]

You know, he's intense.

[A]

He's in himself. And I. Further from myself, and I sit down in a chair that rocks and swivels. So I'm just, like, doing all this shit. And as soon as I sat down, the first thing out of my mouth was, nice to meet you. Am I going to be okay where I parked? And he was like, where'd you park? And I was like, at a meter. And he said, did you put money in the meter? And I said, yep. He's like, I think you'll be okay. I was like, yeah, let's just dive in. And it just. It derailed. I just. I couldn't make sentences, and I just got starstruck. I got. Yeah.

[B]

See, I. This is what. Not to butter your bread too hard, but we got in touch. Yeah, please. Why not? I mean, why not? Love is free. You know what I mean? Like, it's free to give people good feelings. I don't know why we're shy about it.

[A]

Are you all. Pete, this is why I love you, buddy. See, I'm an old regression, though. Like, shit. That's how this happened. I reached out to you. I was like, you know what? You're great. You're the best. Like, I love to.

[B]

And I told you when the ghosted trailer came out, because I was truly impressed. And I watched the film since, and I loved it, and I loved you in it. And comedy action is so fucking hard. I'm not. I don't want to name names. I've just seen some of the greatest ever go. Like, I. I can do this and I can do that. Let's put them together. And it just kind of. You know, it's like a chair that. That swivels and. And twists. It's just very hard to navigate. So I'm with you. Like, give it up. But when. When I hear you talking about being awkward in front of Affleck and stuff, there is something about you that's vulnerable. I'm not trying to be weird. I'm just saying that you're, know, strong Marvel guy, but there's something that.

[A]

Shut up.

[B]

Shut up, you dog.

[A]

Come here, come here, come here, come here. Come on. Go on. This is.

[B]

There he is. He made it in the frame that was, like, perfectly framed up to catch him running outside. I told Val to keep our dog. I was like, please keep Rudy quiet. Just, Just. Just for a little bit. Anyway, what I'm saying, comedy relies on some vulnerability. So when I hear you say you were nervous, meeting Ben and the chair is weird, that's the place that comedy comes from. So while I know most of the world sees you as, you know, Captain America, like, if we went to the Mall of America, that's what's going to happen. You know what I mean? Like, that's the thing. But I'm picking up on what you're talking. Like, I also saw you talking with Scarlett Johansson for that actors on actors thing, and you said something that I really related to, which is, it takes you a couple days to get comfortable on set. Like, And I was like, oh, my God, the guy that shows up when I do something, the guy that shows up on day one, I'm just so quiet and not sure what the vibe is and don't know how to play it. And then three days later, I'm picking people up and flipping them around and.

[A]

You know, do it.

[B]

Put a pin in it.

[A]

So it takes me.

[B]

Tell me.

[A]

It takes me. You must know this feeling. This is one of. I've never not had this about a week after the scene is over. That's when I figure it out. That's when I'm like, oh, my God, I just unlocked it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I doing on the day. Yes. It's. It's such a heartbreaker. As many times as you think you, you know, looked at it from every angle.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

All of a sudden it makes sense once it's too late.

[B]

How about this? Sometimes you confuse being in a great mood with a great performance. Like, you think because you were feeling good that it must. But, like, you realize how you're feeling has nothing to do with what's being captured. And sometimes I'm like, that was the greatest thing I've ever done. Or simultaneously, or I was depressed or kind of low that day, and I'm like, so therefore, the performance must have stunk. I didn't feel great. What does that have to do with anything?

[A]

Yeah, well, even. I mean, acting is just this forever prism to me. You always can look at it from a different angle and find new way in. And. And it always feels a little off.

[B]

But.

[A]

But there are times, I mean, I've done films where I've. I've. You know, we'll. We'll shoot a scene and. And, you know, cut. And I'm like, listen, nobody can tell me that that was not. I was in it. I was in it, I was listening, I was reacting, I was present. There's no way. And then you watch it back and it's just not it. Because in a way you're like, oh, I didn't know they were gonna shoot it like that. Or that the music hue was gonna, you know. And again, you shouldn't cut your cloth according to those other elements. You should just be trying to tell the truth. But the problem, the bottom line is it's a collaboration. It doesn't hurt you to kind of be aware of all these elements and maybe lean one direction or the other, that. That you think just telling the truth is enough. Yeah, and not always.

[B]

It's kind of all you. Are you saying that, like, you're sort of at the mercy of the edit and the choices that they're making?

[A]

Well, to some degree. But also you have to be, as an actor, at least I think, aware of also what the scene needs. It's not just about your own individual truth. My only job, like, it's also a matter of, like, list. That was sure, truthful. But there might have been a better way or a more interesting way or a more dynamic way. Sometimes your own personal truth or even the character's truth. God, this is drifting, pretentious. But. But I love it. Sometimes it's just not enough. Sometimes you almost kind of got to like, push something in a direction that doesn't feel, I hear, stiff to all of a sudden, actually, like, unlock something or.

[B]

I get it. Can I. Can I interject to this? It's like, to see if this shapes it for me or you. When I hear. I hear you. Let's go for the truth. And then, like, you've worked with people, like. And this is not a clickbaity show, it's not a star. Nobody's going for that. So I'm saying this genuinely. You worked with, like, someone like Robert Downey Jr. Who is, like, intensely interesting. So it seems to me we can't know. He's not just going for, like, what's the most honest way to react? He's actually adding a little razzle dazzle, if that makes sense.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, this is where it's so tough because we all have our own insecurities as an actor. And then you look at people who are brilliant and you try to measure the distance between you and them and wonder, listen, is it just because some people like athletes? Some people can just jump through the roof. They have an unbelievable 40. They're just gifted. Some people are innately interesting. They can sit there and read a book and I want you lean in.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Other people have a face that isn't as interesting, and it really might not have anything to do with the commitment to the truth that's actually going on inside them. I don't think that anyone, if they're just 100 honest, is going to be interesting on film. I think some people, even if they are maybe not a hundred percent present in the scene, can still be dynamic on camera. You know, Russell Crowe can grumble any line out and you're like, that sounded amazing.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Moving on.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And so it's. Look, it's. It's always tough to question what you are and what your strengths and weaknesses might be. But. But I don't know if I'm one of those actors that can just do nothing and hold the audience. You know what I mean? I think I'm better when I'm actively alive, actively kind of participating in the emotions in a more honest way. There's probably more akin to my natural nature. So it comes across as more truthful. Yeah. But I'm certainly envious of those actors that just have the. The capacity, the Downeys, the Scarlets, that can just sit and exist and. Yes, I'll watch a whole movie of this.

[B]

We, Val had never seen. That's my wife had never seen no country for Old Men for a good reason. She was like, it came out at the same time as There Will Be Blood. And it's like, you can't watch two. You had to pick one. You know, it's like you had, like. Especially women. I think we're like, I'll do one that's so funny. Like, we couldn't wait to see both.

[A]

But she's going to do one.

[B]

And I'm with you. I watched Tommy Lee Jones and I'm like, God damn it. There's a scene where he's just sitting in a chair and decides to get up. And I'm like, old homes. He does that. It gets cut. You know what I mean? Tommy Lee does it. So I'm so with you. And again, I think this is why you're in that fold of comedy for me is it's a better and funnier and more electric and maybe more honest place where I stand there and I look at other people Even other comedians, I go, they just have something that you just can't take your eyes off. And I secretly, or maybe not secretly, I'm telling you, I don't think that's me. I think I have to put a little judge on it. I got to do my homework. I gotta go out. And I also, like, I'm assuming you do. I think we all do, like, lift things. Like, oh, that was interesting. We all kind of do Brad Pitt, the way he sits, like when I watch Succession and, and the Culin. Rory Culkin. Kieran Culkin. Forgive me, I'm sorry. I was thinking of Rory Scoville. Anyway, so Kieran is kind of moving. I see some, some pit there. I, I, I see these moves that we learn and, and people like you and me, I'm. This is the question. We're going around going, oh, that's how you do it. That's how you add a little flavor.

[A]

Well, it's just funny. It's, it's trying to drop into the what. What looks like reality? What looks like the truth. Sometimes it's a physical. I'm like, you know what it is? You know what it is? I remember the first time I met Sean Penn, and he just, like, he just, like, Ben was just himself. He was looking into my eyes. That made me.

[B]

And he's a paperweight. He's a paperweight. He's, he's an anchor.

[A]

He just moves through the world in such a centered way. If all of the roles he plays are funneled through that level of just centeredness, it's. Anything he does in a still fashion is going to be authentic because he lives in that place all day. I couldn't be more scattered, in a sense. And so when I'm trying to find truth, it usually comes in the form of a little bit of a scattered movement. It's almost like the way to practice being a better actor is practicing being present in your daily life. Practice discomfort of just stillness, of actually making. I'm not a big eye contact guy either. I didn't know that. Someone told me that recently that when I'm talking, I'm kind of all over the place. It's tough. It's tough to just look in someone's eyeballs and agree, which probably should have, you know, worked on in our youth, but, but trying to do it now, you recognize how much discomfort you feel naturally when just being yourself, let alone trying to be someone else in front of 100 people.

[B]

Yes, I'm totally with you. I met Sean Penn briefly and it was that sort of experience. And that I think that actually what we're envying, it's not just their ability to act, if I'm hearing us correctly. It's that they're like grounded people. They're centered people. And it seemed like you were very close to saying, I would agree with this, to be a better actor, be a better person, to be a better artist, just be a better person. Because Alan Watts had this great thing where he talks about how children are so authentic. My daughter is so captivating. She's four. And you just. Can't you take your eyes out off of her because she's being real. You see a twinge of melancholy and then. And then joy, and it's all there. It's just like all the windows are open. And then Alan Watts makes this great point. Like around 7, 8, 9, they realize how kind of adorable they are. And then they become nightmares. Like, we all do this.

[A]

Like, the ego creeps in. I mean, that's the truth. I mean. I mean, God, not to go to Alan Watsi, but, I mean, I love the idea that, you know, the. The surrendering to the moment, whether it's in life or in your performance. Like, it's to be comfortable and to surrender to now. Because in now is everything. Now holds everything. It holds the joy, it holds the sadness. It holds all of it. Once you get to that point of, you know, when your daughter turns a certain age and all of a sudden she can analyze the past and worry about the future, the now is hard to hang on to. And that's when all that. That cocktail of truth starts becoming diluted with the. The. The human appetite.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. You know, and control.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Can I make Sean Penn isn't thinking. Can I make Chris think I'm solid?

[A]

Exactly. That. That's. That's not. That's like. That's beneath him. It's like a waste of his time and.

[B]

Right.

[A]

What a liberating place to get to, to try and. I think truly all art is probably better from that place. You know what I mean?

[B]

Of course.

[A]

As much as I can try and pour, like a technician's approach to performance, when I break down a character and understand on the day what I think I can cut my cloth to, technically, it'll never dive as deep as the person who says, you know what? I'm just going to let go and be here right now and honest. Which I guess is kind of what I was saying earlier, isn't enough. But again, this, like, cyclical uroboros of Analysis is what keeps me out of the moment.

[B]

I think you're right, though. I, I think it's both. We, we can take. Look, you're on the right podcast if you want to talk about Alan Watson ego and, and your true self and all that. I think our ego is a tool. As artists, we can look at how we're being. When we let our instincts and analyze. Are we being as authentic and as pure? Is it coming through as cleanly as we want it to be? We can even add some judge and be like, that movement felt real. Some of us are non neurotypical. I was just talking about how Jerry Seinfeld, who at one point said he was on the spectrum and then he took it back because he's just too famous to say something like that and not catch a lot of heat. But I know what he means. I feel a little bit that way. And it's helpful to then what. What people on the spectrum do is they observe what is considered normal and then they mimic it. And by the way, neurotypical or not, whatever that means, everyone's doing that. Everyone's going like, yeah, maybe when. When you sit like evolutionarily, when you sit with your shoulders back and you let yourself be vulnerable to attack, but you're calm, that looks confident. Okay. Why fight it? Captain America can't. Can't go like this. He can't. That's just not how he stands. How does he stand? He stands confident. And a standup comedian can't stand like that. Unless that's your thing. You have to be like, I'm. I'm not afraid. So can it be both? Can't we go easy on ourselves and say the ego can analyze and this sounds so stupid. We'll learn how to be more authentic and present through not being present through analysis.

[A]

Absolutely. I mean, you couldn't have said that better. I actually think you guys being a stand up comedian, that to me is just. There's probably. I would rather do just about anything in the world. And if someone said you have to try and you know, about 10 minutes on stage, like, it's truly the most terrifying thing in the world to me. The fact that you guys have the skin to do it and that your medium is in such an immediate reaction, what a crazy thing to do.

[B]

I appreciate that. But talking about what we're talking about, it forces you to be in the moment. And that's what I think we unconsciously, I consciously. That's what I like about it is you can't think about the next joke you have. But you did Lobby Hero. That was one of the things I complimented you on. I saw you on Broadway with Michael Cera, and you did Lobby Hero, and it was incredible. So, you know, the feeling of the high wire, but the difference with that.

[A]

Is, like, you know, you're obviously scripted, and you have this. It's almost like you get into this. I mean, I did the play. I grew up doing theater, and I haven't done it in so long. And I was like, man, I missed that. I want a new way into this. I want to kind of shake up the process. And I really thought it was going to get to a point where you knew the line so well that every night you could try something completely new and listen, you know, dedicate the biggest piece of pie to actually listening and letting reactions take over it. I don't want to say it was the opposite, but in fact, it becomes this dance that if you kind of the song of it, that if you deviate from it, you almost lose your step, you know, it almost becomes this plan. Whereas, I mean, comedians, you guys. You know the same joke, but you guys are ebbing and flowing with every spike and deep peak and valley of laughter.

[B]

I can see the point immediately, because if someone goes goof my show, I can go, oh, my fuck, this got weird. This just got. But you can't turn to the audience and.

[A]

But again, I'd rather have mine. At least there's a map. You know what I mean? You. You have to find a counterpunch with the vibe as opposed to. It's like. Well, they're not buying it, but I know my next line, right? Hopefully save it. Hopefully. I was never went up that. That would have been.

[B]

You didn't. It didn't happen.

[A]

No, it never happened.

[B]

I have the actor's nightmare all the time, and I haven't even done that much theater, but I was on a plane once with a guy who was in Gleng Glen Ross with Al Pacino, and Al Pacino was getting older as. As we all are, but this was not that long ago. And he said whenever Al would touch his hair and, like, mess with his hair, you knew. And this was his line. He said, gonna jump two pages. Not. Not two lines. He's gonna jump. And they. They said that they would, like, jump like, it's. It's kind of a whodunit Glengarry. So they would jump like something that was essential to the plot making sense. So now they had to, like, find a way to weave it back to do the scene kind of Again, what a nightmare. Nothing like that ever happened. It never got goofy?

[A]

No, no, not at all. I was actually just watching Glen Gary Glen Ross recently. Ed Harris is in that film, right?

[B]

Yeah, he's so good.

[A]

I did this thing. I remember I actually tested for Avatar back when they, you know, in 2000, whatever, five or six, like that. But it was a weird process. I hadn't actually auditioned for James. It was. I was kind of. The studio's. The studio kind of. I think it was Sam Worthington. I think it was Channing Tatum. And the studio kind of said, and we like this kid Chris. So I got a test deal, so I had to go down. You get in the full hair and makeup and, you know, I had never actually auditioned for James, so you feel kind of like you didn't deserve it. So I kind of wanted to know. I wonder how James likes his dialogue read. And I've done this a bunch with other films that I've worked on. I think it's very helpful if you. I played a lawyer once, smooth talking, sharp, charming lawyer. And so I downloaded the script for A Few Good Men, which, you know, Tom Cruise is phenomenal in. And I had seen the movie, I knew the movie well, but this is still helpful. Any actor, try this. You download the script, you pull up the movie, you look at the scene, you read the scene, you make your choices. Even if you kind of remember the performance, you still try and make it subtle, nuance, specific. And then you watch what they did and you can go through the whole script, pinballing back and forth. It's like, you know, practicing basketball with Jordan. I mean, you get to kind of watch what the greats do. And I did this with the abyss because I knew, you know, Ed Harris was someone he had chosen. And I think that role was a bit of a search, too. And Ed is so good and effortless and just watching scenes where there wasn't a whole lot to do. The dialog was basic. Ed just has this way.

[B]

This is.

[A]

This speaks back to what we were saying earlier. Just like an innate and innate honesty, comfort, truth, effortless delivery that some people just have.

[B]

Yeah. And you would. You would see the choice. This is brilliant. I've never heard of this. I'm going to do this. You're looking at the page. See, I'm going to load this with this thought to. Whenever I'm watching an interesting actor, they almost all. Because I'm a writer, too. I write the line, how can. How can you say that to me? That's how I'm saying it in the chair. And I'm telling you, almost without exception, every great actor says it. What I would consider wrong. I swear, it's always wrong. There's some exceptions. We were just noticing that Billy Crudup is one of the most. He does it simultaneously. Very interesting. And exactly what it should be.

[A]

It's very rare, sure.

[B]

But almost every actor, great actor would go, like, how could you say that to me? I'm not saying they're Christopher Walken, but they don't. Because I'm a stand up too. I want to take the audience by the hand and lead them to the joke. I want to tell them with little.

[A]

Parentheses under every dialogue.

[B]

I have to go back and take those out and underline things and italicize things. And that's how comedians are different from actors. We go, it would be totally fine if I saw Neil Brennan at a show. And I go, I would hit the word the. And he'd just be like, thank you. Nobody would be like, I'm in a character. I'm doing it from my heart. They would go, you think that would be funnier? But actors are there to surprise you and to almost get out of the way of the words. Does that make sense?

[A]

Honestly, the tricky thing is this hearkens back to when I was auditioning. You know, you realize when you go in to read for something and there's words on a page, we misinterpret the words as who the character. Like if we recorded this, which we will. This, this discussion. If we were to put this in script format and give it to someone who didn't know either one of us, would our words really embody who we are? I think on a page.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I mean, they're, they're, they're indicators. But I think as actors, you end up becoming a little too. Behold.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

As if they are. And, and I actually this another thing similar to this. I remember a long time ago, I auditioned for Superman, one of the old Supermans, back. I think it was G directing it or something like that. They didn't release sides from the film. It was a scene from an existing movie. I read the scene, made my choices, did a little Google research, found out it was from a movie called Angel Eyes, this movie with Jennifer Lopez and Jim Caviezel from the early 2000s or something. So I rented it before going to my audition and do a little cheating and watching with Jim Caviezel did again, just lines that I made a meal out of, he threw away. And you just realize, this is a dance that has no rules. I am in charge of this. I'm the magician, and only I know the next trick. And words are these things that you get chained to so specifically in time of auditioning. If you can just be different in a way that's still honest, it's still truthful, that still accomplishes what the scene needs, that's going to separate you from the pack and show that you know how to read between the lines. But, I mean, I've been on sets before where not going to name names, but other actors will read things in a way that you're like, are they gonna do it like that? This is insane. This is the most basic line. What the is going on?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And then it ends up being brilliant. And you're like, I don't know anymore. I don't know anymore.

[B]

Or it doesn't. Sometimes it doesn't. You know that story about. I think it was Mark Wahlberg and Burt Reynolds. And Burt Reynolds. There was kind of like an alpha dog thing going on on Boogie Nights. You know the story?

[A]

No, but what a good movie. I can't wait for this.

[B]

Yeah, it's a short story too, because I don't want to take up too much of this. This is great. But he was going to do it. Burt Reynolds was going to do it. Something absurd. Like, he was not absurd, but he was going to do it in, like, a Scottish accent. And Paul Thomas Anderson was terrified how. Because every rehearsal he's doing this, like, very big swing Scottish accent. How do you tell Burt Reynolds, living legend don't do a Scottish accent if it wasn't Scottish? It was something like that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

First day shooting with Wahlberg. They haven't rolled any film yet, thank God. And because Paul is like, what are we going to do? This isn't working. I don't like this. It's not what I want. Burt Reynolds and. And Mark Wahlberg are kind of, you know, they're the two alphas on the set. So they're kind of watching each other. And Burt Reynolds says to Wahlberg, he goes, you know, I'm gonna do. I'm gonna do the whole thing in a Scottish accent. And Mark Wahlberg goes, that's hilarious.

[A]

You should really do that.

[B]

And, like, that's what put an end to it. He just kind of assumed he would. He assumed, obviously you're joking.

[A]

There's no way this could actually be your choice. That's hilarious.

[B]

You should do that. You should do that. And that was the end of it. And Paul Thomas Anderson, the story goes, was like, oh, thank God he broke his balls because it ended. What could have ruined the movie? Every time I watch that movie, I'm like, he could have just been doing a very different take. Maybe it would have worked. I don't know.

[A]

What a good movie, too. What a good performance out of Mark Wahlberg. I mean, isn't that crazy? Sometimes when you see performances, you're like, if just come at a different time in their career. Yeah, I completely agree.

[B]

Yeah. It was just too new or something. I don't know. We love giving Oscars to newbies.

[A]

Yeah. And, like, that's not an easy role. It's not an easy role. It goes through a real journey.

[B]

He really does. In fact, that's the risk of that movie, is it can. It didn't. But it could have in other hands. Start to feel like an After School Special because he. He gets on drugs, he loses everything, and he starts to cry. And, like, it's like a. It's something they would show you in high school to be like, so don't go. Don't do porn. But they keep it. They keep it just outside of that. I couldn't enjoy that movie for the longest time, and Val taught me how to enjoy that movie because so much of my life I was watching movies, and I couldn't get into stories where the characters were just making bad choices. I don't know if you can relate to that. I just go, like, how? Yeah. I was like, stop it. Stop it. When he. It breaks my heart. Like, don't do cocaine with Juliet Lewis.

[A]

Don't.

[B]

You know, like, it's all gonna explode. And then it does. It's my. Again. It's my ego going like, I'm not an idiot. And she had to go like, you have to watch it like a fly on the wall and go, like, this is just some of the things that human beings do. But my ego would block it. It's so scared that it's stupid. It can't even watch a movie where someone else is stupid without putting it down.

[A]

That makes perfect sense. I mean, I. I struggle now watching. I don't watch a lot of tv. I don't watch shows. Everyone watch everyone. Breaking Bad or no. Yeah, I'm out. I. I finish it, and I'm just like, what the am I doing? I gotta call my agent. Like, yeah, you start feeling, like, bad about your own choices professionally. Like, I used to. I was just an audience member before I got into this industry. I know what you mean now. It ends up being a point of, like, anxiety and Stress. When you watch something incredible and moving and you're just like, God, what am I doing? And it's tough to kind of separate those two things.

[B]

I love that, Chris, just because I remember Gene Hackman, he was on Royal Tenenbaums, the set of Royal 10. Just two guys telling Hollywood stories, but it's fun. Gene Hackman, so he's at that point in his career. Talk about Superman. He's already been Lex Luthor. He's already done all these things. And he was in Royal Tenenbaums, and he told somebody, he was like, before the phone rang for this, I thought I was never going to work again. And it was like, it never. It never stopped. So I'm not trying to back you into some confession. I'm just saying you're a human being. Like all of us marvel success in this moment. Where is it? It's just something. It's just a memory. You know what I mean? Your life is different because of it, but it's not here. What's here is just what's here with me. A human being that in this moment has psychological, spiritual, social needs that either are or aren't being met. And people think. I think people think, and I'd love for you to speak on this, that you can go through any situation and. And like Seinfeld, go like, I was in game six of the World Series. You know, it's. Or you, in your case, you go like, I was in the Winter Soldier or whatever it was, and that's going to fix your problems. Would you speak to that?

[A]

Yeah, sure. I mean, I, I, luckily, I'm not someone. I mean, I. I speak about having anxiety when I watch other projects, but it's pretty fleeting for the most part. I'm lucky in the sense I love what I do, but. But. But I'm not one of those actors. Maybe you can tell from my work, but I'm not one of those actors that, like, needs it, you know? And I like, you know, some of the actors that, like, if they weren't an actor, then there is plan B. Yeah, I. I love what I do. But look, there's a lot of stuff that comes with this industry. You're aware of that. And it's. It's. Sometimes it's challenging. It's not my favorite. I'm not one. I don't. You got to maintain perspective. I don't mean to sound complaining or anything like that, but. But the bottom line is I'm. I'm incredibly content at this stage in my life. And so As a result, I don't feel this kind of nagging burden or weight. I even make that, you know, the reference of getting anxiety while watching other projects. That's kind of like maybe the me from before. I, I, slowly but surely, I kind of feel it's falling away. Pull to, to kind of. I mean, I, I, I, again, I love what I do, but I don't see myself doing it forever. I feel you. You have this great bit where you tie. See it on Instagram all the time because I told you I always want you.

[B]

I know you pressed it too many times.

[A]

Are littered with you.

[B]

I'm in the algorithm now.

[A]

You think you're in America. Zoom out. You know. Yeah, I, I am such a, you know, I'm big space nut. And just the vastness of things and the, the scope, the scale, the time, the power, all these things, you know, makes you feel at once like, you know, this surge of anxiety, but then this really incredible deep calm. Yeah. So as a result, I, I've been feeling just more and more truly content. Truly content where I am and at peace. And, and I'm lucky too, because this industry is a real, you know, treadmill. Yeah. Yeah. Constant carrot chasing. And, and, and I don't feel that, and I don't feel that large. In part because of the macro perspective. The, you go when you feel you're most stressed. It's because you made your words, your world small. So, so the bigger you go, the more I just feel like it's just a miracle to be here, isn't it? Yeah, it's just a miracle. It's a miracle to be here. I was just getting out of my car the other day, and I got out of the car and I went around the back of the car, and then I was like, I wonder if I went around the front of the car. Like, think of the sliding door ripple effect that that one choice would have had. And then I thought about that for the next hour and the, the continuation of changes that that choice, that one choice has made has affected innumerable. Like, like. And then you think about every single person that came before you. Your ancestors, your grandparents and great.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Every single day, they had to make a front of the car or back of the car choice.

[B]

Or hit, hit on your great grandmother or don't hit on your great grandmother.

[A]

You know, the things that had to happen to get you to even exist. It's like shooting a bullet with another bullet. It's, it's a miracle. It's an absolute miracle to even exist. And. And that alone has really brought me a deep, deep sense of calm. Gratitude. That's what it is. Grateful that then, you know, everything else kind of quiets now.

[B]

God fucking A. I love that. I also. I was. I went to Dave Bautista's Instagram. If I'm being honest, it was probably to see if he follows me. Just. Just too embarrassing.

[A]

God bless you.

[B]

That was. I'm gonna have a vulnerability hangover for that. But I get curious. I'm flipping around, and I'm like, what's Dave Bautista doing? And there he is. And. Oh, he doesn't follow me. And I just kind of moved on. But I looked at his pictures, and his arms are so big, and he's huge, and. And human beings are so basic in that way. I'm not putting us down. I'm just saying we can't get over the big daddy. The guy that's just like, don't worry. I can pick you up like a baby and take you into safety. I can carry you out of a burning building. Like, we love it. We're so. It's so dear. How basic we are. I mean, I'm tired. You played a superhero. You know, the need. The. The Jungian need for Dad's got you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And all the superheroes are just different moms and dads, and so are the presidents, and so are everybody. So Batista is. And I catch myself being comforted. Like, I'm. Oh, he's gonna save me. But then let's. Right, it's stupid. But then you take Dave, Batista, put him in the ocean. Put him in the ocean. I. I don't mean that to put him down. Let's play. Let's play scale just here on Earth. Put him in the ocean and look at him from above and. And zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom. Where are his forearms? This isn't just Batista, Dave. This. Dave who does not follow me. This is not shots fired. I'm just like. Like, you're so locked in your human perspective that you go, I am this size. He is bigger. But take him and put him in the ocean. If that doesn't do it, keep going. Look at the planet. Look at the blue marble. Look at the. And. And again, not. The reason I do it is for a. A spiritual connection to go. Like, there's a bigger. This is stupid. And everything isn't going to be literally true, but there's, like, a bigger power. He's got muscles. But look at what we're a part of. And don't get too caught up in like, because all of that's. No matter how much protein we have, it's going to deteriorate. So there has to be a search for something eternal or, or unborn or, or whatever. What do you got? What does that mean?

[A]

I, I completely agree. I mean, if the goal, I mean, what's the goal if the goal in life is a peace or happiness, you know, what's the shortest, the, the, the, the quickest way there is to kind of be completely surrendering to the moment. And any thought that kind of connects to either someone's physical prowess or their body of work, or all these temporary impermanent things that are actually man made concepts more than anything else.

[B]

That's right. That we weave into a story which my daughter can't do and Sean Pan can't do because he's just in the moment.

[A]

But that is the egoic, you know, proclivity we tell ourselves. What's the Chris story, you know what I mean? And how we're perceived. But all this stuff, look, eventually Earth's gonna go away. Even James Dean will be forgotten. None of this stuff is here forever. And I think that's an incredibly liberating thought. And again, it's just a matter what brings you closer to peace and turning down that kind of egoic brain noise. My brain noise is loud, you know what I mean? It's, it's my, my ego exists. And as a result, you know, you analyze the past, you try and predict the future, but all these things, we spread our consciousness way out as opposed to just dropping into this moment, which I think is, I mean, the beauty is that that's always available, isn't it? Isn't that such a great. It's always available right now, is always here if you want it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And everything is in it. And I think when you start kind of learning how to kind of quiet your mind a little bit, even Dave Bautista's arms won't. Won't your peace.

[B]

Well, going back to your contentment and getting into the moment. What are those slots you can answer that in, like, because people are interested. Everybody of course, is interested in peace and contentment and equanimity and quieting our voice. Are there routines that you do? Are there? Are there? I almost pictured them like, like the Sims, like those, those bars you have to keep filled. How are you kind of maintaining your garden of peace? Like, what is the routine of that?

[A]

Well, certainly what helps. I'm a big nature guy and, and living in Massachusetts, you get the seasons. I like, kind of appreciating how many things that have nothing to do with me. Things that have been here long, long, long before me.

[B]

And we'll be here after you. I'm north of la, so we look at the mountain every day and I'm like, I get to see something that was here for thousands of years before I was born. It'll be here for thousands of years after I'm dead. Great. Thank you.

[A]

My father was big into that and when my childhood, he's, he's still with us. But, but when, when I was young, my dad was just always. It's to be in awe of things. If, if, if you're not in. Being in awe is, is such a great catalyst. Great, great, great gasoline in the engine for just, for, for joy and, and staying present. Because there's just so many things to be just completely, completely blown away by. Absolutely blown away. Sometimes I can't believe that we aren't all just walking around with our jaws on the floor, things that are happening around us. So I don't know. For me, like I said, I, I feel my advantage is that I'm in awe of things. I'm in awe of things. I'm just blown away by stuff. And that's not something I really have to work towards. And, and, and that awe really drops you into the moment. Yes. And there's some great books out there. Have you ever read Bill Bryson's A Short History of Nearly Everything or Sapiens? Have you read Sapiens?

[B]

I have. It's right there staring at me, daring me to read it. I haven't read it yet.

[A]

Oh my God, is it so good? It's so good. I just like anything that puts perspective, the human experience into perspective. It's so easy to think that we're kind of the center of it. Yeah, we are all the leads of our own story. But yeah, you realize that we are human beings, even just in terms of Earth. Forget, forget the universe, Earth. We're an inch in a mile. Yeah.

[B]

It's going to sound like I'm forcing this, but I, I looked at my dog taking a poop today and I was like, my dog doesn't have to wipe his butt. If human beings are the most, if God loves us the most, why am I spending 45 minutes wiping my butt? My dog, I looked at his hairy ass. There wasn't a dingle dingle on it.

[A]

He's out and solid.

[B]

All he eats is dry food and an avocado every once in a while and he shits perfectly. And I was like, even that Chris Reminded me it's not all about us. Julia Sweeney made that point. She's a lovely atheist. I'm not an atheist. But she made the point that octopuses have way better eyes than human beings do. And she kind of used that as an argument to be like what we're saying. Human beings are not the center of it. I like to think of it as. It's like a tree. We're one of the branches on the tree, but it's all one tree. That's why no matter how far you zoom out or put Dave Bautista in the ocean, Dave is the ocean and Dave is Dave. It's all kind of one thing. But that's where it's at. It's not really your. As you said, your. Your story, whether or not you're nailing it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

A little bit more brass tacks. I just. I think it's because it's spring again. Human beings are so darling and so predictable. Both Val and I are getting like, healthier and just kind of being a little bit more routined. Like we made up a schedule and we were like, I think we just need a schedule because we have a four year old. This is when we're going to exercise. This is when we're gon meditate. This is when we're going to read even stuff like that.

[A]

Schedule. I love a schedule.

[B]

Tell me. Yeah, this is what I want. A little brass tax. Because, buddy, I've told this story a million times. That's not true. I've told it maybe twice on the podcast, but it's like, I've started doing cardio every morning. A bunch of people were like, do cardio? Not even for weight loss. They're like, just psychological. They say it's the same effect as taking an antidepressant. So I do 20 minutes on the bike or 30 minutes just walking on a treadmill. I have to say this to you at an incline.

[A]

Okay, sorry.

[B]

This is embarrassing. Please edit this out. I'm just kidding.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

And since I've been doing that, I noticed that I get up in the morning and a voice in my head routinely says, what are we going to worry about? We need something to worry about. It's just so routine that talk about gasoline. It goes. We run on what we're worried about. Relevance, work, do people like me, whatever it is all evolutionary stuff. Sapiens would probably argue that's what part of what's kept us alive is some sort of dis. Ease with reality. What are we going to eat in the winter?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

But Since I was doing just 30, 20, 30 minutes of cardio in the morning, a new voice has emerged that goes. I go, I need something to worry about. And I swear, just louder than that voice, it went. It was like Matthew McConaughey. It was like, or maybe we don't. Maybe we don't. Maybe we don't. And I was like, how did McConaughey get.

[A]

How did I install a McConaughey?

[B]

It was a peloton. What the. I don't. So give me a little. Give me some of your routine. I. I'm in. Not in a men's health way, in a men's everything way.

[A]

God. I mean. Well, the good thing is the. The industry we're in provides wonderful opportunity to practice. You know what I mean? Like, you're going to be in a constant state of. Of insecurity, self doubt, time awareness, all these things that can create egoic cycles. And so you're given plenty of chance to. To kind of stretch those, you know, present muscles. One of the things that I always do, because my anxiety kicks up at night, you know, daytime, I feel great. I wake up. I'm. I'm a morning guy when I go to bed. And it's so strange because as a kid, I loved going to bed. It was. But you know what? As a kid, it was all egoic daydreams about, you know, being an actor. And, you know, it's all opted. It's all in front of you. It's all, you know, now. Now you're in your life, and you're trying to keep the ball in the air, and that's what sparks all these negative anxieties. What I would do is just kind of say, you know, Chris, all right, we're lying in bed. Look, there's nothing we can do right now. There's nothing to be done about this. There's no actual action I can take. So let's just. Let's give her. We'll go on a little vacation. All these problems will be here tomorrow morning, and we'll tackle them all then. I'm not trying to walk away from them. I'm not saying I don't need to address these things, but let's just say, how about for the next six hours, we just go on a vacation? And you. Rationally, not like, emotionally or spiritually, like, you can. You can wrap your head around that. And then when you do, you drift right off to sleep, and in the morning, that little bit of, like, kind of like, that kind of worked. I wonder if I can Apply that same logic to this morning moment and to this evening's moment. And then before you know it, you realize life can be just that constant state of obviously you want to be self aware, like you said, you know, you have to. Some analysis is to avoid past trauma. Again, self preservation, that's fine. But in terms of like that real anxiety spiral, that not useful. It's just a matter of saying, you know what? Let's just go on a little vacation from these thoughts just for a minute. Just for a minute. And then just keep extending that minute. And before you know it, that's. That's who you are. That's like when those thoughts quiet down. We're not our thoughts, aren't we? Our thoughts are just this like noise in our head. And nine times out of ten, it's not helpful.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, yeah, just practicing talking your brain into the practice of just being quiet, you'll start to inevitably realize this is effective. Yes. And it can be applied in a lot more places.

[B]

I love the word vacation. I also, I'm doing the same thing. It's like there's a higher self we could call that's trying to reason with the mind, the brain. You could say it's the mind trying to reason with the brain or whatever word you want. It doesn't matter. You're going like, like, like a child, like a dad. We're back to batista ing ourselves. You go like, I hear you. That's so much better than shut up. Yeah, I hear you. You're right. What are we gonna do? Yeah, that's beautiful. You care about us. I see you. I see you caring about us. Thank you. So now you're greeting it with gratitude. But then you give it a gift, you give it a plan, and you go like, I'm just recapping. I promise you, if. Let's take a little break. I think we need a break. It's just like telling my daughter, I think we need a sandwich. I think we need to sit down, whatever it might be, and in the morning, we'll deal with it. And the crazy thing is in the morning, those problems just don't. Without the shadows, the long shadows behind them. What were you even on about? But I love to see. I'm hearing a little Eckhart Tolle. Are you an Eckhart Tolle person?

[A]

Oh, yeah. Major, Major. Huge, Huge.

[B]

Huge. He says 99 of your thoughts are repetitive and useless. And the. I think it was right. It's attributed to Ram Dass. A lot of people have said I think. But Your mind is a. Is a wonderful servant, but a terrible master. But no one is teaching us this. We think we are our thoughts. When really what is called the eye is the. I could say the field of awareness. You could also say it's the blank piece of paper that the thoughts are written on. It's the constant. It's the thing. It's the space in the spaciousness in which everything appears. Right now, you're a phenomenon. In my consciousness, I'm a. We're. The sound of us is a phenomenon. And everyone that's listening, but that's not you. That comes and goes. So what is constant? What was there when you were five? That memory you have of seeing a dead bird? What was there? There was a sense of being that was there. And that doesn't age. And that's why when you talk to old people, Norman Lear did this podcast. I was like, do you feel older? Dude's in his 90s. He's like, no, because he's. He's checking his awareness. He's not even looking at his body. He goes, I don't feel older. This is why we don't feel older. As we get. We feel the same because there is a part of us that doesn't change, and it's that sky wherein the clouds, which are our thoughts, our feelings, and our circumstance appear. But it sounds to me like we're agreeing. Peace comes with sky identification instead of cloud identification.

[A]

100. It's like this site. You have to simultaneously. I mean, the problem is, by the time we're able to be aware of concepts like this, you might be in your late teens, early 20s, and you're pretty hardwired. So you already got to kind of rewrite this ship. If you were taught at 10, 11, 12, when you first start grappling with these egoic struggles in your school years, it might be easier to kind of correct the unhealthy habits. But it's the type of thing where, when you get to those, you know, early 20s years, having some sort of little practice that gives you a taste of the moment and why it can be so good. Just like I said, saying, I'm gonna go on vacation at night. Just a little taste that this works while simultaneously in your waking life, making sure you also practice, like you said, the non. You know, we go small. We think we are a body. We think we're our thoughts going, recognizing the timelessness of things. The zoo out, nothing separate, zoom out. You know what I mean? You are not a separate thing. Nothing exists alone. You didn't just come from your mom and your dad. Your mom drank water, your dad breathed air. You are that tree. You are. Because of this. Yeah. It's this kind of constant interconnectedness to everything. Yes. Actually helps reduce that egoic noise because that comes from a selfish place of I. You know, you can kind of bring that down through awareness of the macro.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Also showing that. That dropping this compulsion to be, you know, anxious also provides this like, ocean of stillness. It's kind of, it's. It's such a hard thing to, to reshape specifically in this industry, specifically in a business that is specifically in our culture right now. I mean, we're, we're bending in such a dangerous direction. The in. I mean, I was just saying this to someone. The Internet. This, this. I think, again, not to go off on a real strange tangent, but in terms of inventions that have affected mankind, it probably goes fire the Internet. The wheel. Like the Internet.

[B]

The wheel is third, folks.

[A]

Like the Internet is. And we don't even. There's just not enough. Yeah. Yet to even kind of draw a conclusion. And, And I, I worry that so much of it is about satisfying that egoic appetite of.

[B]

Oh, of course.

[A]

This individual story. And I'll give you the hope.

[B]

Do you want a little hope?

[A]

I love it.

[B]

My hope is because I feel like to recognize that you are an ego and that it's not working. That's the, the basic spiritual precept of all traditions is you have an ego and you have your true self and the ego isn't working.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think the way show business can do it. I really think it can. And I think. I really think it can. I don't know. I said that like Trump can do it. It's truly great. It makes you see your ego.

[A]

It's so dumb. Why did it come out like that?

[B]

I really think it can, Chris. Great guy, captain of my country, but I think social media can do it because that emptiness when. That everyone now, now I'm looking at as a gift. Everyone gets to experience the hollowness of a viral. Whatever that means in your world. A hundred likes in junior high on a video or a post or whatever or a comment from a celebrity and you see it doesn't work. I actually think this is a. Again from an optimistic place. This shows the unstoppable. The unstoppableness that love is pursuing us, that we are pursuing ourselves, that it will go. So I'll hide behind a pile of shit so that when you eat all of it there, I'll Be, it's called falling up where it is, Richard. Or we don't come to God by doing it wrong. Right. We come to God by doing it wrong.

[A]

Well, you don't wake up from dreams, you wake up from nightmares.

[B]

There it is. Yes.

[A]

It has to get bad enough to break a cycle. That's why I really do think we're at a critical mass. There is like, you know, they say there's like a God shaped hole in us right now. You know, I think things were easier at a time where, where religion. I'm not by any means like a deeply religious person, but certainly a spiritual one. And back when religion provided those answers and purpose and you know, we didn't know where the sun went at night, it was almost easier to process our daily struggle because we had an answer. There was a North Star. Now I think people are kind of feeling that God shaped hole. And it's, it's like, like every animal. When I see like a turtle crack out of a shell and he just knows to go to the ocean. This thing just came into existence and.

[B]

It has a brain and it has instinct. We say the words like instinct or genes. You've explained nothing.

[A]

Yeah. And, and so, so what's ours as a, as human? What, what do we have? And I think it's like this innate homing devices, the kind of awareness, this like appreciation, the ability to kind of be in this, you know, bag of skin that, that manifested in a way to express not just love, but an understanding of something that is spiritual. That's a beautiful thing. And it has to be satiated in order to feel happy and whole.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I think what people are looking for right now is something like that. This is why I wish, I wish with the art form that I chose to pursue. It's tricky as an actor to find projects that can, you know, if you're a painter or something, you can paint something that actually reflects how you're feeling on this particular issue. But as an actor, it's hard to come up with projects that you think can help move that needle. Because I think it's right. You know what I mean?

[B]

I agree.

[A]

That one documentary, that one project, that's like why it's going to give you hope. Right?

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's like performing.

[B]

Pardon the interruption, weirdos. I'm going to let you in on a little secret. That's true. I never used to wash my hair. I never ever, ever, ever use shampoo. Until recently I was getting my wonderful friend Kat, who cuts my hair, was like, Pete, you have to clean your hair. But I didn't want to because whenever I used regular shampoo it meant it was clean. Sure, but I. But it also looked like shit. It looked like dried out fluffy shit for two days. Unmanageable dried out thin brittle hay on my head that I just couldn't control and it looked terrible and I just had to deal with that. That all changed when I found Modern Mammals. The only shampoo that's like a non shampoo that somehow cleans your hair but leaves it perfect. I'm not just saying that. It leaves it absolutely perfect. Like a perfect hair day with structure. It's got that wave, it's got some of that natural moisture staying in your hair where you need it, staying in place and looking incredible after a wash. Now my hair looks like how it used to look when I would wait three, four, five days after a normal shampoo for it to come back to life, to come back to looking great. Now it looks great. Perfect hair day after I spent six seconds with it in the shower. Which is incredible. My hair regimen is now the opposite of, of what it used to be. I used to not wash it when I wanted it to look perfect. Now I wash it when I want it to look perfect. Before a TV spot, before I tape my special, before I just go on a date with Val when I want it to look good. Now I use modern mammals. It is incredible. Over 40,000 guys was switched. You got to see the reviews. Everybody's mind is being blown. I can't believe more people don't know about it once you use it. I'm hooked for life. Absolutely never going back. And it's a small punk rock grassroots company. These are just regular guys who are fed up with shampoo frying their hair and set out to actually create new products to wash your hair with. New shampoo alternatives specifically for guys. They have bars, which I love, which is a low lather fragrance free, plastic free way to do it. Or you can get bottles. It's like a magic gray mud that you run into your hair and then rinse it out. It's not like a normal shampoo. And somehow it's like magic. It leaves it looking perfect every single time. Spend six seconds a day and have perfect hair. I found out because I saw it on Instagram and and then I reached out, I was like, we got to work together. I am all in. Go to modernmammals.com use discount code weird for free shipping. That's modern. M A M m a l s.com discount code code weird. For free shipping. You gotta check it out for real. It's blowing me away. Also, we're brought to us by our friends at Element. Healthy hydration isn't just about drinking water. It's about drinking water plus electrolytes. Which makes sense. You lose both water and sodium when you sweat. 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It's friggin incredible and it makes me pee less at night. I don't know why. Something about the sodium. All right, back to Chris Evans. I talked to a monk in Santa Monica. This is years ago. He's just on the street handing out like food. And I talked to him briefly and he referenced the Matrix and I was like, how cool is this dude? Just the sentence that he said was. And you know, years ago we didn't have films like the Matrix. He was like grateful to the Matrix. I, I come from the Christian. I'm not that way anyway, you know, I love Jesus. Let's not get into that. I just mean I was raised in the fundamentalist church and I would have only seen the violence or that Neo and. And Trinity have sex and you see butts or whatever it is. And I thought it was just so beautiful that, that there wasn't that first of all and that there was this appreciation for it. I also like, I'm deeply envious of the Truman Show. I even think Liar Liar has something to say. I think Jim Carrey has picked movies. You know, he's a spiritual guy that he's finding those things out there. But I'm with you because story is so much more effective. You and I talking about this like directly is great, but when you have a movie like Truman show that goes like you were. You inherited so much when you were born, you didn't even know it. That is like a TV show. That is like a. And Kristoff in that movie. Ed Harris again, here he is. He's not God. He's like your ego. He's. He's building a world. He's like an antichrist. He. He's telling you something is real that isn't real. And we all have that. And it's not a fake town and a fake TV show, but it is Chris Evans. You're important. You're an avenger, Pete. You're a. You have a friend of ours that has a 12 year old. She. I don't. I've never logged into my TikTok but she logged in my TikTok and was like, you have 300,000 followers. And I was like, like, this is all the Truman show and we all have to get in our boats. Which is his biggest fear.

[A]

Yeah, he falls off.

[B]

He drowns. You have to die. This is all Joseph Campbell.

[A]

This is great.

[B]

This is great to find the. To puncture the wall. And you won't believe it until what you were doing wasn't working so hard. It pushed you into past. Joseph Campbell says, the treasure you want is in the cave. You're afraid to go. Look to every story for other examples of this. Star wars, everything. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Beautiful.

[B]

Sorry, I just went on a. A big tear.

[A]

No, that was great though. I Mean, you couldn't have nailed it. I mean, that was perfect.

[B]

There has to be. I'm not again, I'm all for buttering your bread, but I, I see that in Marvel. I, I, I've talked before about how Iron man, he has to go into a cave. I think he actually builds his ego. He builds like a shell and he has to recognize that he can drop it. And that's, that's Tony's arc, but it's the same thing. I'm sure the reason these movies resonate has. Have you ever had an epiphany that Captain America is telling a story that has some spiritual meaning to you?

[A]

Oh, man.

[B]

And by the way, feel free to skip. This is like a hundred thousand dollar pyramid. You can just go, nah, I don't.

[A]

Wanna, I don't wanna, I don't know, I, I mean, I, I look up.

[B]

Doesn't he recognize a power that was in him? You know what I mean? Doesn't he have an awakening of sorts?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I, yeah, I suppose I've always identified with Cap as someone that never really gets quite what he, he, there's, yes, there's an enormous burden put on him, but something he chose. And as a result, you have to kind of consider the people that need him.

[B]

You know, there's sort of a Garden of Eden thing. I'm not trying to force it, I'm really trying to think it out with you. There's like. What I like about the story of the Garden of Eden, which of course I don't think is literally true, is that there's an election into it. You, you choose to eat from the apple and it kicks you into the, into the messy world. And there's something going on with Steve Rogers that he, it's almost like he gets a wish granted and then it's like, oh, but guess what? You have all this other stuff. We don't know. We don't even have to go into that. Who cares, man? I was gonna say one of your, your co stars, Scarlett Johansson. Have you seen Lucy? The movie? Lucy?

[A]

Oh my God, the final scene in Lucy.

[B]

I die.

[A]

Oh, good. I think you should die viewing.

[B]

I die.

[A]

Love it.

[B]

I, I, why aren't we all, no shit. Why aren't we all talking about Lucy? Like, of course you've seen Lucy.

[A]

Like, it's, it's beautiful. Like just the lighting in that, the writing is so good.

[B]

And it's what we've been talking about here. Like you're part of a thing. You weren't born, you didn't die. It's not just you. And she's. And the scene where she calls her mom I could cry, and she's like, I. Like, she's. She's getting full access of her mind. And that's what happens when we're quiet. That's how. That's what happens. Sometimes you have that on psychedelics or some other transcendent experience like. Like you have access and you can remember the taste of your mother's breast milk or something, and. And you get overwhelmed. It's like what you were saying, like the two bullets.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Touching. If we could widen our perception, you wouldn't wait in line at Starbucks in quite the same way. And that's. And that's what's so powerful.

[A]

This is water. The David Foster Wallace commencement speech.

[B]

Obsessed.

[A]

Oh, you have. I thought you were gonna say obsessed. Like, you're welcome.

[B]

I know.

[A]

It's just, you know, this is water. This is water. It's that kind of. Just adjusting the perspective, going macro. Recognizing.

[B]

Well, that's one of the things I do when I'm. When I'm thinking about. You were talking about how interconnected we are, and. And you said it so beautifully. Your dad breathed air and your mom drank water, and that became you. Sometimes when I'm trying to remember our interconnectivity, I. Instead of air, I imagine it's water. That. That's EAS us to picture. We think air is nothing, but as I say in that bit, air is made of the same stuff that you're made of.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Why aren't we talking about this?

[A]

I know. I believe. And these are. I was just watching something on black holes. I'm a big space nut.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Black hole. A black hole with gravity. Crushing, crushing, crushing. Crushing iron down to the. Like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The force, the power that is out there. These things at work that are right now. This isn't like, yeah, yeah, it's happening now. Hypothetical. It's proven these things are going on. The fact that it isn't the number one thought on everyone's brain. I. I literally think if you. If you took the exact conditions of our society and culture, our social norms, and you just kind of. A few cosmetic changes, set it on another planet and. And wrote a script about it. I think the notes would be. This is unbelievable. There's no way these people wouldn't constantly question what the fuck is going on every day. Yes. Go to work. And they don't worry about it. No way. Unbelievable.

[B]

I. When I'm in that. For lack of a better term, a Clear space. No, like you just kind of come into yourself and you turn off the ego noise. It seems so obvious to me. The majesty and the wonder and the.

[A]

The.

[B]

It's not just mystery. It's the black. The. The beauty. I guess we could say the beauty and what I really.

[A]

Them.

[B]

Not Pete and his body eating the sandwich, but like the. Well, you could call the spring the. The Rupert Spira. I always quote this as. Do you know Rupert Spira?

[A]

No.

[B]

Oh, you gotta check him out. I'll send you a link. He's so great. He talks so cleanly about the phenomenon of awareness. He strips it of so much. He's like Eckhart in that way. And he goes, we are the screen. Like what we are. So he goes, you have an experience and there's something that's aware of that experience and you are that thing that's aware. And he likens it to a movie screen. And there's things that happen on the movie screen, but the screen itself is never tainted or died or changed and identify with that screen. I. I don't even know why I brought that up.

[A]

I couldn't agree more. I mean, this is why my dog. My dog is such a good little teacher. My dog will sit out in the yard, not lying down, not relaxing, sitting up. Sitting up. But just. Just an active participant in his presence and just absorbing. He's not worried about yesterday, he's not worried about tomorrow. He's just. He fits. He fits in a way that I don't.

[B]

A lawfully unfolding dog. He's just being a perfect dog.

[A]

He's a part of it. And the reason he's a part of it is because he doesn't know. And one of the beautiful things about human beings is that we get born into this suffering of awareness and afforded the opportunity to let it go. This thing that think makes us divine and separate and superior is actually our biggest shackle. And we get the chance to actually shed it and go back to him. You know, he's the teacher. I'm pointing.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Like there's. There's this just all around us, this beautiful stillness, this lack of self awareness that makes it magical. That's what makes it magical.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or thoughts arise that moment before the analysis of the moment. That's who you are. And if you.

[B]

And in the pursuit you just reminded me. It's like I pursue all this specialness even. Even spiritual pursuits can be to be special. It's like I want God to recognize me. I want to feel good. I want to Be saved. I want to be enlightened. I want to be this, I want to be that. And the deeper I go into it, it goes like, welcome, I'm glad you chased that carrot. It has nothing to do with you. I'll give you it as everything to do with you, in a sense, but has nothing to do with you. So again, it's hidden even that. It's so. It's not just the ego doesn't work. It's like even my spiritual earnestness doesn't inevitably work. And there's a surrender and a melting and a zooming out that just goes like, oh, but everybody, I was just saying this to Neil, Brett. I was like, isn't it beautiful that everybody. The worst person, calm them down. Take the worst person, calm them down, really in their body, in their mind, whatever that means. It could massage, rest, nature, solitude, peace, therapy. Just get them as calm as you can and. And then let them lull, get them breathing slowly, rest their eyes. Incense, candles, whatever it is at their core, that neutral place that zero is Enya. No one is death metal at zero. You bring anyone down. No one is. And I love metal. I'm not saying I. I sometimes get off the phone with my parents and I put on Metallica and I blast it and I thank God that someone has given that feeling expression. I love it. But James Hetfield, you bring him to Zero, He's.

[A]

Who can say, you know what I mean?

[B]

Isn't that beautiful?

[A]

That's the point.

[B]

That's the point. Everyone deep, deep, deep down in their zero is clear, spacious, boundaryless, unborn, undying, unbothered, peaceful, vulnerable and invincible at the same time. Isn't that beautiful?

[A]

And the beauty is that it never. It doesn't miss. Like, if you can get a taste of it, someone's not gonna get a taste of it and be like, nah, that wasn't that good. Like, everyone is gonna be like, that shit was good. Yes, it was. I had it for a second and I lost it. It. But that was it. That.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It never doesn't deliver. That's how good it is. That's because it's. It's what you are. I mean, it's your natural state. It's. It's, you know.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

More.

[B]

It's so close.

[A]

Yeah, it's.

[B]

It's the distanceless journey. That's why when we talk about all the efforting we need to do to get there, I'm also like. It's also just a stopping of everything we're doing. It's more of A dropping and an unlearning. Are there? Tell me. I was just wondering if there are moments, maybe surprising moments for me it would be in the middle of a stand up set. I can get in that, like, oh my God. Or have there been times in your life that come to mind easily where you're like tasting it?

[A]

I mean, I, I, it's usually far away from my job. I wish it were more like. Yeah, when I'm on set, you know.

[B]

It'S actually, can I say I'm really glad that you're not like someone's handing me a latte because no matter how sweet, because you are a very centered person and I'm really enjoying this and it just makes me happy for you to see that you're not drinking from a goblet or something. But no matter how humble or small we try to be on set, it is an amplified space. Someone is going to get you a coffee. Like you can't wipe your own sweat away. You can't, you're wearing gloves. You know what I'm saying? So like that's not the zone you're.

[A]

Just so aware of. I directed a movie once and it was just, I remember this, this constant narrative in my mind of just being like, I need less of me. From the moment I wake up to the moment I go to something, it's all about, I'm trying to direct this thing, but underneath all of it, it's just me. It's just me. I'm just thinking about me, you know, in. And it's just, I can't handle it. And you know, that's me. I'm just worried about me here and like, what do I do? And how are they gonna. Like this and what should I. Yes, yes. Exhausting. And yeah. You're trying to create. Even though you're trying to make something bigger than yourself, it's still just you. So.

[B]

Yes, that's right.

[A]

When I'm far away from, you know, like I said, I'm a big nature guy, big woods guy. I love camping and I love driving cross country. I love the idea of just, you know, there's no destination here. It's just driving. I've listened to a billion books on tape. It's just, I think, you know, for me, when I'm far away from the industry and I like being alone, I'm a big alone guy. You know what I mean?

[B]

I'm an introvert as well.

[A]

You know, it's just kind of nice. It's just kind of like where you can really just Just put it all down. That's when you realize, God, what the have I been carrying to be so relieved, Right? I'm alone. Jesus.

[B]

How.

[A]

How.

[B]

You know, that's the Truman Show. How many of us are going out? Like, when you visit your. Your family, you remember, oh, they hand you socks. Sides. They hand you sides. There's everyone's. And they. My poor parents, they're playing them too. They also got a script. And we all revert. Everyone's doing that. We know. You know how people have work voice. You hear them on their phone, and they start talking in a different voice. That's a character. Good. We're recognizing it, so let's drop it.

[A]

But what if, like, I'm so jealous of the people that just have the balls to just, like. If I actually moved through the world exactly how I wanted to. Yeah. People would think I'm an. Not that I would be, like, outwardly mean or anything. I'm not spitting on people, but I certainly wouldn't be up here. I'd be right down here. And, you know, you wouldn't be dancing.

[B]

There's lots of little dances we do where we ping people, like sonar, and you have to ping it back in a certain way. And this is what I'm teaching my daughter how to do. And that's what's making me even more aware of it. I'm like, oh, when someone says that, it's nice to say this. I'm like, again, I'm teaching her her lines.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You love being alone because you don't have to remember your lines.

[A]

That's it, man. That's it. And. And what if you could be alone among people? You know what I mean?

[B]

Well, that's.

[A]

That's the courage that it would require. That's what I think the beauty of getting old is because you do stop giving up.

[B]

Yeah, that's right.

[A]

I don't care anymore. I'm just gonna do it.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

That's. That's some real peace.

[B]

Were you in la? Wait, you don't live in la? Have you seen Eckhart live? I was just. He just came through.

[A]

No, I haven't. I. I would.

[B]

You could go up to New York, because he goes to the Omega Institute, and that's. This is so. It's like we're talking about a rock band, but that's like a little venue.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Highly recommend, because it's all about that. When you're near someone, there's that Zen saying, I didn't come to learn from my teacher. I came to or from the master? I came to watch him tie his shoes. Have you heard that one?

[A]

No, that's great.

[B]

Isn't that good? Just gives me the chills. I'm like, that's it. And not to put down my tradition, but we were like, can we be clean and bright and godly? You know, from the pulpit and in the lobby, these guys are like, no, it's about how you brush your teeth. It's. How is Chris to his dog? Dog? How does he make a sandwich? I'm as. I'm realizing I've gone over an hour. Like, is this okay? Like, how are we rolling with this imposition, by the way? How are you on time? Should we rap?

[A]

I'm good. I got about 15 more and then I gotta bail.

[B]

Okay. More. I heard that, Boston. Anyway, go see Eckhart live. Let's do. Let's do the quickest speed round. I'm just so touched that you. That you agreed to do the. This.

[A]

Oh, of course, man. Yeah.

[B]

This is awesome.

[A]

You're just such a good egg, man, and a real talent, so I appreciate it.

[B]

I won't bother you, like, ghosted I won't cactus emoji you, but I will send you some things that we've mentioned if it comes up that I think you'll like. And please do the same.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Have you ever seen a ghost?

[A]

No, I'm. I'm not one disappointment.

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah. I'm not really a whole. I mean, I. I have a lot of dear friends, family members who believe in all those sorts of things. I. I'm not for you. Look, I. I'm sure there are. My issue with ghosts are. Can only humans be ghosts or can animals be ghosts?

[B]

You just stole a bit from my act. Where are all the ghost cows?

[A]

And I go mosquitoes. Like, are they everywhere? What's their purpose?

[B]

And like, what you just did it.

[A]

Did.

[B]

You did what we're talking about. This is octopus eyes. You're going. Look, you're only. You're thinking, only human beings have souls. Only human beings reverberate or. Yeah.

[A]

Ghosts to me are a very egocentric concept. To me. It doesn't track with the. The information. We certainly look. Energy can't be created or destroyed. These are facts. I. I believe in something bigger than myself. There are black holes. There's magic going on that I'll never know. So I. I'm sure there is something. But I don't think there's an afterworld where you move like a book from the like or, you know, or like I left that light off. Like, I don't. That just doesn't track with me.

[B]

I have to get this candelabra from here to there. I just have to. I know there are people living there now, but I have to do it.

[A]

You know, he's gonna hate turning this upside down. You know what I mean? I just don't think those are, like, the rules of the ghost world. But. But, you know, I'm sure there is. There's no denying there's something going on that I don't know anything about. And maybe it has to do with energies. And look, I know even, like, young kids that they say have more of. They're more of, like, vessels for.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Connectivity between, you know, past and future. And I got it. You know what it is? It's something that. It's like, I don't need to believe in gravity for it to affect my life. It's none of my business, like, whether there's an after, whether there's ghosts or anything. It's. It's almost. It's not necessarily a helpful or useful or applicable perspective to have. And I think, in a weird way, it's a thought process that misused. Can enforce ego a little bit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So kind of say, you know what? It's. I have no opinion on it.

[B]

I suppose that's very Buddhist. I know you are. Are you practicing Buddhist?

[A]

I mean, I think it's the closest religion to what I would subscribe to, but. But even Buddhism through the years has so much dogma attached to it. I try to stay away from any sort of, like, dogmatic ism. I just think the idea of a way of being.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, has a lot of. I mean, Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, a lot of them have a lot of, you know, overlap. So I think in the loosest sense of the word. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

I guess I'm with you, and you're in a safe place. I was gonna say there's. I've quoted it many times, but a lot of things that are quoted to be the Buddha aren't, but here it comes. Either way, I love it. Either way.

[A]

Way. It's like none won't be none. Right.

[B]

What is it?

[A]

No.

[B]

Somebody said, what happens after you die to Buddha? And Buddha said, it's like you've been shot in the leg with an arrow.

[A]

And you're saying, you know, who shot the arrow, shot his arrow. Yeah, Yeah, I love that. My God, it's such a good one. Yeah.

[B]

Just get the arrow out.

[A]

Just the arrow out.

[B]

Just stop the suffering. Suffering yeah. Stop the suffering. Don't worry about the origin.

[A]

Exactly. That's exactly my perspective. I think, again, pulling on that thread, I think is, look, it's fun, it's interesting, it can create wonderful conversations, but I think you really got to be self aware because I think underneath it, you could be reinforcing this. Oh yeah, self relevance narrative that, that could make other things more tricky to stay present.

[B]

Yeah, the ego snuck in through the back door. Ever see a ufo?

[A]

Now that I believe. I've never seen one, but I mean, no.

[B]

It's, it's declassified. It's happening.

[A]

Not even a maybe. You know what I mean? If you don't believe there's life out there, you, you need to read a book. Yeah. You and I.

[B]

Yes. Yes.

[A]

The vastness of things. It's not even a maybe.

[B]

I know. I just saw the pilot that posted the video of the cube. There's just a cue. It's a. It looks like the boy Borg. It looks like the Borg's cube, but it's small, just zips by a plane. And I'm like, it's, it's kind of like you were saying about wonder, like, or waiting in line at Starbucks. If we could really get in touch with what's happening here would be so overwhelmed. And then even when something in the macro, like a flying saucer goes by, we still, we're like blocked. It's like our brains block us because it goes just, just reproduce, just eat, eat and, and find somewhere safe to sleep tonight. And, and it blocks us.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Well, I, Would you get in trouble if I asked you this? I, I, I, maybe that's silly to ask, but have you done psychedelics? Is that something that's ever crossed your.

[A]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm pro psychedelics. I think there's something, and it's great that they're really kind of like moving into the medical realm. I mean, there is. Look, life is hard and there's a. We don't always have the tools to unpack some of our trauma. And I think there's been proof that certain things can help alleviate some of that suffering.

[B]

Well, the last time I took mdma, which was recently, I, I had exactly what we're talking about. It was so much easier for me not to appreciate the wonder of a tree. Although I could have if I pointed it at a tree. It's like a superpower if I point it at the tree, but I pointed it inward and I found so much love for myself and I Was like, that's what therapy is. Therapy is a person going, chris, who cares? Who cares? Who cares? You're good. You're okay. You're good. And then this substance, it felt like 10 years of therapy again, I'm not telling everybody to go out and do it. This is just my experience. And I was like, no wonder the sign. The medical community is like, this can help people who have a lot, who have been given too many lines, too many scripts, and now they can improvise more, more cleanly. Have you ever almost died?

[A]

I've been in a couple car accidents. I feel bad. Plane turbulent things maybe really you were gonna die, but probably.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

Couple car accidents, but. But, you know, no. Nothing that's worth no story. Like, no, no.

[B]

But you've been on a plane where you're like, this is the end.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Once. Yeah, it was. Oh, my God.

[B]

Commercial.

[A]

Yeah. And. And. And to a point that, you know, not many dry eyes. People are, you know, shrieking and crying and things are falling from the. You know, it's.

[B]

It's.

[A]

And you just can't imagine this plane can survive this. You know what I mean?

[B]

How.

[A]

How is this possible?

[B]

What was it a storm or.

[A]

Yeah, just really bad turbulence. Just, you know, And. And relentless for, like an hour. You know what I mean? Yes. Yeah. Terrifying. But, you know, I'm sure some pilot would be like, actually, yeah. Yeah.

[B]

You know, so actually, you're statistically much safer than you would be in a car. It's like, all right, well, tell that to the. In my pants, which actually is on my paper. Have you ever pooped your pants? You don't have to answer that.

[A]

No, I will say. I. I mean, I never. I mean, aside from my childhood, I have very good battle control.

[B]

There you go. We're almost done here. I had to ask, whenever I watch this is my one Captain America. I know it came up a little bit, but my one Captain America question, and I think you'll not have gotten this before, is I always think when I watch, like, Winter Soldier or something, you wear a ball cap and you. Steve Rogers has an incognito mode, and his incognito mode is the same mode you would do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

At an airport. So you trying to be a celebrity. Blending in at Logan looks like Captain America, Winter Soldier. Like, every time. Every time I watch that, I'm like, what does he do?

[A]

They up my disguise. They, like, made the disguise as recognizable. Man, that was one good thing. Of masks. I'm still the only idiot wearing masks. I just had an airport recently, and I was the. The only guy wearing one. Yeah, I don't care. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna ride that into the ground. Just because you can't beat it, you can't beat it. You can just move anonymously. Even if everyone's like, what's this wearing a mask for?

[B]

Well, that's Boston for you. You wouldn't get that in la. You'd be. There's still plenty of us. That's true, but I'm not. This isn't a fame thing. This isn't me checking if Dave Bautista follows me. I like the mask, too.

[A]

I.

[B]

There's something. It's like having a blanket up to your nose. There's something private and nice. Absolutely. And then this is the last question, man. We ask everybody, what is. Can you think of a time in your life where you laughed really, really hard? And it doesn't have to be a great story. The prompts I always give are, maybe someone fell. Maybe Mark Ruffalo. I'm just kidding. Maybe someone farted. Meaning, it can be dumb, but if you're laughing and tears are streaming down your face, how old are you? Where are you and what have you happened?

[A]

I'm a big laugher. I'm a big laugher.

[B]

It's great.

[A]

And, you know, the idea of trying to, like, suppress. I mean, like, I. I'm an easy audience. I laugh really hard, and I. I find my. I think I'm a very joyful person. So I. My. My friends say I'm a real. It's why I'm not funny. I think comedians don't always laugh at. Or they don't laugh.

[B]

It's a practice. It's a practice. Like, I have to work at staying elastic and staying laughy.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, like, I just.

[B]

Just.

[A]

I think everything is hilarious, especially when you know you shouldn't be laughing. Yeah.

[B]

Any church laughs or assembly.

[A]

I had a press junket once, I did with Hemsworth on one of the Avengers movies, where we were just, you know, getting silly. We were being bad. We were just making jokes, and we couldn't. I couldn't stop. He could get a grip a little bit better than I could. He remembered that, you know, here to be professional. But moments like that, yeah, I kind of unravel. And there's.

[B]

Have you seen Paul Rudd and what's his name? He lives. He's my neighbor. Jason Siegel. Jason Siegel and Paul Rudd. They're promoting I love you, man. And they won't stop laughing about farts they just. And the poor. So people don't know you're in a hotel room or somewhere. And they just keep rotating in press. So it is.

[A]

And your brain just to melt a little bit. You know what I mean? Everyone gets five minutes and so it's the same questions. And after quite literally 100 interviews, you just start going a little loopy and, like, silly. Seem funny and you know you're being filmed. And that just adds to this childlike urge to giggle.

[B]

Yes, I. I think that's a great answer and a wonderful. And I relate. I've only done that a couple times, but it is absolutely insane. I'm just looking at my notes. There's nothing I didn't miss. I mean, this was awesome, man. Again, thank you for doing it. I. It's funny. You've never done podcasts. I looked. I searched your name in podcasts. No podcasts.

[A]

No. No.

[B]

And you're a perfect podcast guest. And people are going to be blown away. There's no. I'm just so happy to share this. There's no Chris Evans talking about the sky and turning off your. And taking a vacation from your brain. This is a gift. You and your dog and your friends. The rest of the day you feel good. You did something good.

[A]

You are a gift. Thank you so much. This was great.

[B]

My pleasure. Would you say keep it crispy? It's how we. It's how we close. The guest says, got it.

[A]

Got it. Everybody keep it crispy.