Jake Johnson

Summary

Podcast Summary: You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes – Jake Johnson

Release date: January 31, 2024

---

Overview

In this deeply candid, hilarious, and philosophical episode, Pete Holmes sits down with actor, writer, and director Jake Johnson. The freewheeling conversation moves from insights about the entertainment industry and creative drive, to reflections on gratitude, loss, death, the meaning of life, and the absurdities of modern culture. With Johnson promoting his new film Self Reliance (Hulu), the two riff on everything from the evolution of press and performance, to dealing with grief, and why sometimes gratitude is overrated. As always, Holmes and his guest lay bare their secret weirdness, resulting in a mix of laughs, vulnerable truths, and off-the-wall asides.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Double-Edged Sword of Entertainment & Modern Media

Early reflections (01:13–06:10):

• Pete shares nostalgia for the origins of his podcast and laments that established content isn’t “shiny” enough for the new-media economy.

  "You've got the content, but you don't have the new toy element." — Jake Johnson (02:19)

• Johnson comments on how the landscape of press and celebrity has shifted, from classic long-form to viral, snackable clips.
• Both poke fun at feeling old amid “scrolling culture”; discuss ways podcasts can still be deep and heart-opening.

Notable Moment:

• Jake describes his confusion at being asked to tell unrelated stories at BuzzFeed for promo — a sign, he says, of the world shifting away from substance (02:53).

2. The Power (and Limits) of Gratitude & Drive

Digging into motivation and gratitude (11:24–19:57):

• Johnson and Holmes debate gratitude as a creative tool. Johnson argues ingratitude, or dissatisfaction, is a necessary driver for ambitious people:

  "If you have gratitude, I do start feeling complacent. I feel happy ... But if you don't, it makes you grind." — Jake Johnson (12:09)

• Holmes observes that gratitude and ambition aren't opposites. He suggests it's possible — even healthier — to pursue goals from a place of positive energy versus fear or lack (14:10–15:09).

Timestamps & Quotes:

• [15:02] Pete Holmes: "What we have to do gives me paralysis. Why I want to do it will make me start."
• [16:27] Jake Johnson: "A chubby kid with my nose from a suburb of Chicago got to live my childhood dream..."

3. Building, Burnout, and "Wavy Gravy" Living

Navigating contentment, growth, and satisfaction (17:07–23:03):

• Johnson coins “Wavy Gravy mode”: appreciating comfortable, stoned, satisfied existence — but says for him, creative hunger always returns.
• They discuss how major life events (pandemic, parenthood) recalibrated their relationship with work and downtime:

  "You don't want to do nothing. You want to do nothing after you did something." — Pete Holmes (21:12)

• Both highlight the paradox: true contentment comes after challenge; “growth” is hardwired.

4. The Creative Process: From Hollywood to Podcasting

Behind the scenes of making art (24:02–29:48):

• Johnson describes shifting from Hollywood's "game" (endless meetings, little pay, lost ideas) to podcasts and indie projects, relishing the control and direct audience connection:

  "Now I get to say no. So I have gratitude for that. But while I'm in it, you should know it ... I do have it." — Jake Johnson (33:03)

• The satisfaction of learning new things during the pandemic (Johnson built a cabin; Holmes embraced podcasting as lifeline).

5. The Value of Losing & Feeling the Loss

Embracing imperfection (68:44–70:37):

• Johnson rails against the toxic positivity of modern culture, rejecting the narrative that every loss is a win:

  "When you lose, you lose. And it hurts, and it should, because you lost." — Jake Johnson (70:32)

• Holmes connects this to religious/spiritual narratives that overemphasize 'resurrection' and gloss over the necessity of death and suffering.

Memorable Sequence:

• [68:44] Jake Johnson: "What's great about losing is it actually should sting. It's okay to go: that motherfucker is better than me. And I'm not done."
• [72:18] Pete Holmes: "Christianity is a study on how to lose... It's a story about a guy who realizes his oneness with God and then they murder him... we've turned it into prosperity gospel."

6. Death, Meaning, Oneness, and “Spinning” Spirituality

Contemplating loss and what remains (97:07–115:50):

• Holmes and Johnson get philosophical: is there meaning after death? Is the spirit "spun" into experiences, or is awareness the true continuum?
• Johnson shares poignant stories about his father's death, fulfilling a pact to spread ashes at Wrigley Field, only to find no tangible "sign," leading to reflections on what spiritual comfort actually offers.
• Holmes offers the “ocean and wave” metaphor for oneness; Johnson remains skeptical, finding more honesty in naming what's gone.

Notable Quotes:

• [99:22] Pete Holmes: "Your consciousness ... can't be alone. It's the same everything as everything."
• [110:03] Jake Johnson: "He's gone because he died. And when he was here, it was great... To say 'he's here' is finding positivity where it's a fucking huge net loss, and it's a fucking kick in the dick."

7. Paradox, Performance, and The Audience Contract

Honoring art and its receivers (124:21–129:01):

• Johnson argues that performers have forgotten the importance of the audience amid self-obsession and industry politics:

  "If we are anything... we're the street performers. We give people a break and entertain." — Jake Johnson (125:40)

• Holmes weighs the conflict between doing what you love vs. giving people what they want; both acknowledge the need to be authentic, but not self-absorbed.

8. Grief, Family, Dogs, and “Real Life”

Offbeats and raw insights (73:29–89:50):

• Charming detour on the weirdness of pet culture; Johnson shares his Peace Corps experience relying on a stray dog, contrasting it with the pampered, entitled pets of later adult life — as a metaphor for creative ambition vs. complacency.
• Heartfelt exploration of losing loved ones, missing chapters, and sharing stories even without the possibility of a response.

9. Joy, Laughter, and Friendship

Closing reflections (136:44–138:12):

• Johnson describes the hardest he’s ever laughed: ongoing, absurdist sketch bits with his brother, featuring imaginary projects like “Still Chatting”—a never-to-be-recorded 100-hour sketch show—a reminder that the best comedy is often collaborative, private, and unrepeatable.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On creative drive vs. gratitude:
  "If you have gratitude, you start feeling complacent ... but if you don't, it makes you grind."
  — Jake Johnson (12:09)

• On the paradox of rest and work:
  "You don't want to do nothing. You want to do nothing after you did something."
  — Pete Holmes (21:12)

• On embracing loss:
  "When you lose, you lose. And it hurts, and it should, because you lost."
  — Jake Johnson (70:32)

• On death and oneness:
  "Your dad was a wave. He took the apparent image of croco... but the water, total water, is still there."
  — Pete Holmes (108:06)

• On serving the audience:
  "We give people a break and entertain."
  — Jake Johnson (125:40)

• On the weird joy of bits with his brother:
  "We've been talking about how we're currently writing a sketch show together that we started in the 80s. It's called the Greatest Sketch Show Ever Written... We'll never start..."
  — Jake Johnson (136:46)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Podcast beginnings, changing media, authenticity: 01:13–05:00
• Drive, gratitude, and complacency: 11:24–15:09
• Wavy Gravy / Satisfaction after work: 17:07–23:03
• Pandemic as creative turning point: 24:01–29:00
• Pathology of Hollywood, shifting to independence: 18:18–33:00
• Pet culture, growing up, and animal metaphors: 73:29–84:09
• Loss, grief, and spiritual paradox: 97:07–115:50
• Philosophy of making art for the audience: 124:21–129:01
• Funniest memory — Still Chatting with brother: 136:44–138:12

---

Final Thoughts

Pete Holmes and Jake Johnson get “weird” in the best tradition of the show: sincere, rambling, and rigorous. The touchstone throughout is how to remain honest—in comedy, in love, in loss—and not to “spin” away from suffering or chase comfort at the expense of real feeling. It’s a testament to what happens when two thoughtful, funny people dig into their secret weirdness and find something universal, hilarious, and true.

---

Essential Quote to End:

"All there is is right now. It's really happening. And if you lose and you're that fighter, well, put ice on your wounds. But don't say I don't hurt ... because we're all the same, but now my movie's not alive anymore, it belongs to the audience."
— Jake Johnson (119:32, 128:45)

---

Watch Jake Johnson’s new movie Self Reliance on Hulu.

Transcript

[Jake Johnson]

You made it weird. You made it weird. You made it weird. Oh, yeah, you made it weird. Yes, you made it weird.

[Pete Holmes]

You made it weird with Pete Holmes. What's happening, weirdos? This is Jake Johnson, who is incredible, hilarious and brilliant. You're about to hear. He has a new movie out on Hulu that is incredible and awesome and hilarious. He wrote it, he directed it, he starred in it. I loved it. It's called Self Reliance. It's on Hulu. Check it out, check it out, check it out. He is incredible in it. And in this podcast, you are going to love it. I have just a couple tour dates coming up. I'm going to be at the Irvine Improv for one night. I'm going to be at the Oxnard Improv on Valentine's Day. I also have my monthly Largo shows. If you want to see me at Largo, go to Largo LA dot com. All of these tour dates are on PeteHolmes dot com. Check it out. Love to see weirdos out at shows. It always means so much. And thank you to everybody that came to this month's Largo. It sold out. It was incredible. I'm so glad you guys were there. All right, Jake Johnson, let's get into it. Enjoy.

[Jake Johnson]

How long you been in this place? Doing this in here? Has this always been the.

[Pete Holmes]

No. We first recorded. Do you remember Meltdown Comics on Sunset Boulevard?

[Jake Johnson]

No.

[Pete Holmes]

There's no real reason you should. Unless you went and saw a show there. We used to record it. It was near Sunset in La Brea.

[Jake Johnson]

Cool.

[Pete Holmes]

And that's where we did it for the first five, six, seven years. Six years. And we've been doing it here for four years.

[Jake Johnson]

Now, I think. Wild.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah, it is.

[Pete Holmes]

And you just, you just started.

[Jake Johnson]

You're way ahead of the curve.

[Pete Holmes]

I am ahead of the curve. But, you know, and I don't mean to focus on the neg.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But I do kind of have this feeling of like, you know, getting honest about what I want. I wish more people would discover the show because it's one of the things that I'm most proud of is the show.

[Jake Johnson]

Totally.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's really hard when it comes to, like, marketing. The first thing people want with marketing is new.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like. It's true. Of course. Of course.

[Pete Holmes]

Apple Vision Pro.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes, of course. It's true.

[Pete Holmes]

So it's kind of hard.

[Jake Johnson]

It's a double edged sword.

[Pete Holmes]

It's a double edged sword.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. You have a great library. You've got the content, but you don't have the new toy element.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's not shiny.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

But it is established.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes. Well, it also this whole world, which I'm very new to. So even the idea of doing podcasts, I'm still new to. Cause I came up as an actor in a different time so far.

[Pete Holmes]

You're an actor?

[Jake Johnson]

Well, I'm trying to be, but the idea of it is even the way press was different. So I hated when press started getting short form. I remember my first press tour in New York where I went to BuzzFeed.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And I was waiting for the interview and I sat in a room that was all white and there were cameras everywhere. And they said, just tell any story you want. And I said, why? And they go, because we're going to cut it into clips. And I thought, what the fuck does this have to do with the movie? I did and that story brought more eyes to the movie. And I remember being like, oh, the world is changing and I'm not ready for it.

[Pete Holmes]

I think about that too. I watch other people's podcasts and I enjoy them and see what they're doing to kind of, I think, compete with the instant gratification of scroll scrolling. Like, I don't know when I became andy Rooney. I'm 44.

[Jake Johnson]

We're about the same age.

[Pete Holmes]

And I just had somebody, by the way, in their deep 50s say they're about your age.

[Jake Johnson]

It happens to me a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, look, we're the same generation. And I go like, come on, give me something. I know I'm not them, but I don't think I'm you yet. You are not. I'm looking at the like. Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Topography, map of your face. Seen every smile, man.

[Jake Johnson]

We're there, man. Not yet. Not yet. Close.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't mind.

[Jake Johnson]

I'll be them when I'm them, but.

[Pete Holmes]

Don'T induct me into your club now.

[Jake Johnson]

Too soon.

[Pete Holmes]

But I do feel like an old, old fart in the sense that I'm like, you know, people are like, why don't you edit your podcast, somebody? We were, we were strategizing. We're like, how do we get more okay? And not even just for like the marketing or the success of it, but.

[Jake Johnson]

For the fun of the game of playing the thing. Yeah, yeah, me too.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm proud of it. I've taken drugs. I hope you have this experience. Meaning, like heart opening things like MDMA and like, just been overwhelmed that I share my life on a podcast. And it actually feels nice. Meaningful.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

So apart from anything else, I Go like.

[Jake Johnson]

I'm proud that I like. Yeah. So I actually. I think I'm coming at it different now. I'm seeing the beloved, too, so I'm feeling the warm in here now.

[Pete Holmes]

Be love.

[Jake Johnson]

I think I'm coming at it differently in that you have a.

[Pete Holmes]

That's supposed to be rich.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. I'm like, get. Get that gold, boy. Get that gold. No, I love. I love the game. Please get a sticker that says there's gold in those hills. Boy, that's why you go to California.

[Pete Holmes]

Prospector with the itchy.

[Jake Johnson]

That's why we all came here.

[Pete Holmes]

Itchy wool onesies is why we're here.

[Jake Johnson]

With the butt flag. And then you see a hill and you realize there's no more gold in this mountain. And you look over and there's a bunch of fools, and somebody's quiet, and you go, I think those motherfuckers found gold.

[Pete Holmes]

Do you play Red Dead Redemption, by any chance? You find a guy at one point, and he's found gold. He's just mining for gold. And the game is so sophisticated that you're like, if he's here, I bet something.

[Jake Johnson]

There's something great.

[Pete Holmes]

So you just watch him. And he goes, I found gold. And you just shoot him in the face.

[Jake Johnson]

And take. You know how.

[Pete Holmes]

And then a guy rides into town, has gold and pretends he found it. Imagine that guy.

[Jake Johnson]

The level. That's our business.

[Pete Holmes]

That is funny.

[Jake Johnson]

That is our. You sit around, you talk about an idea with a group of people. You pitch it around, they pass, and then a year and a half later, you see a variation of it with.

[Pete Holmes]

Other people, and Derek Waters takes your drunken story. Just look at one of these. Any one of these.

[Jake Johnson]

I'll say it. I love you, Derek. How's that?

[Pete Holmes]

You stole my shit.

[Jake Johnson]

No, no, I'm kidding. I know, but I was actually just with him this weekend.

[Pete Holmes]

I love Derek Waters. I love Derek Waters. I just. I was doing light research because I'm a fan. I didn't have to research you. And I did see that on your Wikipedia page, that you drunkenly told Derek Waters the story of Otis.

[Jake Johnson]

Otis Redding.

[Pete Holmes]

Otis Redding.

[Jake Johnson]

He had really funny thing. We just went to San Fran together. We got home yesterday, and Derek and I was the first time we ever flew together.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

And he did say, as it was taken off, it would be funny. Just based on the origins of our relationship with drunk history. Because the story is that I believe to be true. The Internet has proven me to be a liar.

[Pete Holmes]

Otis Redding story.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Producer/Moderator]

You were wrong.

[Jake Johnson]

Well, Someone told me when I was growing up in the 90s. So I've told that story 10,000 times. It was one of my. We're all drinking in a bar. I got a good story.

[Pete Holmes]

My dad's been telling me that Thomas Edison invented the revolving door. Every time I went in a revolving door, as soon as Google came out, I was like, dad was.

[Jake Johnson]

Dad was wrong. Yeah. And how many people have you told that to? Well, or not a lot.

[Pete Holmes]

This isn't. The usefulness of this example ends there. Because I don't do that. Because it used to bug me that my dad.

[Jake Johnson]

I got you. I got. Mine was a buddy told me in high school. The story is Otis Redding's wife used to write a lot of his music with him back in the day. She didn't get credit for it, but they were really connected. They were really tied up. They were going to. They're working on a song. They were going to the airport. She drove up to the airplane. Right before he got on the plane, he stopped and he said, said, no matter what happens, promise me you'll be good. And she goes like, you're crazy. What do you get on the plane? He goes, just promise me. She goes, I promise. He gets on the plane.

[Pete Holmes]

Doesn't mean you'll be good.

[Jake Johnson]

Just like, be. They were religious. Be pure. Be good. Be like. Be like. Of light.

[Pete Holmes]

I see.

[Jake Johnson]

Just like, be a good person.

[Pete Holmes]

Sounds like. Don't go too timing me when I'm a ghost.

[Jake Johnson]

Might have been. I mean, I'm not in his head. I just know the story. And it is all a lie. It's hard, okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Just to know.

[Jake Johnson]

Spoiler.

[Pete Holmes]

It's a lie.

[Jake Johnson]

It's all a lie. Keep going. Be good. Be good. He gets on the plane. Plane crashes. He does. So my buddy told me that when we were having, like, a ghost story night, when we were, like, 17 and just smoked weed for the first time, we all got tingles.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't like this.

[Jake Johnson]

And I was like, that's amazing, man. Like, that's as good as it gets. So I told it in a lot of bars. Derek and I became friends. We were sitting in our apartment, my apartment, getting drunk, and I told the story. And I thought his eyes were going, like, wow. You know, does this guy have a story? You know? And we were just becoming friends, and I was like. And the next day, he called me up and he goes, can I come over tonight with a bottle of booze? Anything you want. I'll pay. And we'll get our friend Jeremy Connor to Film you telling that Otis Redding story. And I go, why? Went next night, next day, it was the morning after. And I go, why? And he goes, because I want to get. I was. We were commercial actors at the time. Just started. And he goes, I want to get like real actors to reenact your story and then get someone to play Otis Redding.

[Pete Holmes]

So he really did have the idea.

[Jake Johnson]

And I was like, of course he did. Yeah. And I was like, no, I can't be drunk. I have a commercial agent.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And then he put it together with another one of our friend and put me in the first one as one of the reenactors with Mike Sarah as Mike Sarah was first popping. And that was like my first kind of credit around. So. So Derek and I are on the plane last night. And he goes, it would be funny if we crashed based on our backstory, because it all started.

[Pete Holmes]

You've only ever told that we lied in a plane crash.

[Jake Johnson]

Though he did die in that is.

[Pete Holmes]

The part that's not confirmed is he.

[Jake Johnson]

Said the whole be good and all that shit. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I just remember, like, Bill the Butcher.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Remember which.

[Jake Johnson]

Which part of that story that when.

[Pete Holmes]

He'S dying, he goes, I'm proud to die a real American.

[Jake Johnson]

Good for him.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm like, yeah. And then did he say, I pooped my pants? You know what I mean? Like, what was he like? Ah, it's so much diarrhea.

[Jake Johnson]

Like, what was Alaska Wilde had a great last one. What was.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm tired of being the funniest person in the room.

[Jake Johnson]

That was, you know, good Chicago boy who. Good Chicago boy who I'm putting all this. Johnny Belushi.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm tired of being the funniest person in the room. Was the last wor. Loved Del close.

[Jake Johnson]

It was. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then I'm sure he also said, yeah, I'm cold. I'm cold.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, that's right. I'm also. Can I get more of that cough medicine because my chest really hurts.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Exactly. Please give me more morphine. Is everyone's last words and.

[Jake Johnson]

Or like, please be quiet. Please be quiet. Honestly, please be quiet.

[Producer/Moderator]

Shut the fuck up.

[Jake Johnson]

Everybody, please. I get it. I love you. You're my family. All you people are. Honestly. Shut the fuck up. I'm dying. Give me like, one minute of silence before I leave this fucking earth. I can't breathe.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I'm gonna want? Unplug that beep beep heart mode.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Y. I can't have a beep beep.

[Jake Johnson]

I Know what I'm gonna want? I've thought about it. Based off, you know, relatives who I've watched pass, I am gonna have a stage where I'm gonna say, load me up with drugs. I'm not gonna. Some people say towards the end of their life, they want to experience it and they want to be around and be present.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

I'm not. I'm gonna say, I love everybody, but experiencing me, experiencing joy, squeeze my hand as I'm like. And my daughters and my wife will be like, everything okay, Great. I want you to remember me like that. Not remember me going like. Well, I.

[Pete Holmes]

There's something about the drug experience that is mirroring what. What tends to happen as you deteriorate mentally anyway. So it seems natural, like you're already getting fucked up.

[Jake Johnson]

But let me enjoy the depth, but let me enjoy the ride. That's because the beauty of drugs, I mean, even the beauty of coffee, the beauty of anything, you're doing the same shit. It just gives you a little kick.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

So while you're literally dying.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

That's the time you say, no kick, no kick.

[Pete Holmes]

Pass, buddy. You've been kicking all day. That's the whole drug conversation. Like, we all are doing a lot of different drugs. Even affirmation is a drug.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes. Gratitude's a drug in la.

[Pete Holmes]

Gratitude. That's funny. I was just thinking about that. I'm trying to get a little bit more serious about my gratitude. It really works.

[Jake Johnson]

I'm going the other direction.

[Pete Holmes]

What do you mean?

[Jake Johnson]

I want. I'm.

[Pete Holmes]

He's going in gratitude.

[Jake Johnson]

I want less gratitude. Why? Everyone being grateful.

[Pete Holmes]

There's so much to complain about.

[Jake Johnson]

You want to know why? Going back. What I like about having less gratitude?

[Pete Holmes]

Fewer gratitude is what it is.

[Jake Johnson]

But. Yeah, go on. I'll stick with less. Is it makes you grind? It makes you work? No, not having gratitude.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, you're talking about drive.

[Jake Johnson]

No, I'm talking about gratitude. If you look at a situation, you go, how's everything? It's like. It's great. I have this. I have this. I'm able to do this. It's amazing. Or if you go, the crowd's not big enough, the material is not great.

[Pete Holmes]

Enough, and I don't have anything interesting.

[Jake Johnson]

Then you go, well, I gotta make the material better. I gotta get the crowd bigger, and I gotta make this nicer. But if you have gratitude, I do start feeling complacent. I feel happy, and I go, like, life is really amazing. And then people with a lot of gratitude will justify anything. They'll Go. Like, I have so much gratitude. I go, why? They go, I'm breathing such a low bar. I'm here, guys. We're all together. It's great. My buddy Eric Edelstein, my favorite guy on planet Earth who's not in my family, we. He's a Mr. Gratitude. We were gonna go watch the football game yesterday in his hotel room. We didn't want to go to a bar. We wanted it quiet. Derek's a Ravens fan. We got, like, some snacks and a couple beers. It was great. We're going up to the room. While we got to his room, the maid was in his hotel room. Bad luck.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

He goes, it's perfect. And I go, how and fuck could this be perfect? And he's like, well, the room's gonna be clean. I go, no, perfect is. As we're walking up, she's walking out. But his gratitude goes right to. This is as good as it gets, brother. And I go. Standing in a hallway with beers, getting warmer. A bag of chips is not. It's the worst timing.

[Pete Holmes]

The virtues of ingratitude.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, I'm with you.

[Jake Johnson]

Meaning.

[Pete Holmes]

I understand what you're saying. Dissatisfaction is a really powerful thing.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes. And it's fun. Well, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Complaining, you mean?

[Jake Johnson]

No. Working. Having that feeling of like.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, do you remember there was a line in Funny People where he said Adam Sandler's character says to Seth Rogen's character, who's starting out.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And he's like, I'm broke. And Sandler goes, that's good. It'll make you work harder.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I. I. So I know what you're talking about. I am going to. I'm going to challenge you.

[Jake Johnson]

Please. What's the fun of this?

[Pete Holmes]

I want you to know.

[Jake Johnson]

Let's get weird. What's coming.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm gonna let you finish your point.

[Jake Johnson]

No, you go, I want to challenge.

[Pete Holmes]

Is it possible, Jake, that you can have gratitude? And in that state of gratitude, which we could also call like, an open, satisfied state, you can ask yourself, what do I want?

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

How do I want to feel? Why do I want it?

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And how can I get it? Those three questions.

[Jake Johnson]

I think that's nice.

[Pete Holmes]

And. Because then aren't you running on, like, a. Just a higher octane fuel? Same thing, right? Desperation and fear can make me go. And don't get me wrong, sometimes I get in a panic.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And I have to book guests. I have to book shows.

[Jake Johnson]

I grind, grind. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But I think I'm agreeing that that works.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Isn't it possibly better to stop and just go, I don't want. Like, I'm trying to write this movie. I've been trying to write this movie for a long time. I have a draft of it, but I'm still. There's more work to do. When I go, I have to sit down and do those rewrites, I don't do it. But if I can stop and focus on why I want to write the movie.

[Jake Johnson]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And what I'll feel when I finish the movie.

[Jake Johnson]

That'll get you to do it.

[Pete Holmes]

That's a cleaner. Like, what we have to do gives me paralysis. Why I want to do what I have to do will make me start.

[Jake Johnson]

Doing the things I think that's interesting I have.

[Pete Holmes]

Is that as close as we're gonna get to you saying, no, you are correct, sir.

[Jake Johnson]

And dipping your hat. Well done. Podcast over. You won.

[Pete Holmes]

What if that's what I wanted, I love it. I don't want.

[Jake Johnson]

You just want to win little debates. You want the other person to go, like. And I'm not saying you do, but you just want the other person to go. That's right.

[Pete Holmes]

Isn't it embarrassing, though? I do want to go back to your thoughts on that theory. It is embarrassing. You ever get a real good look at what you want and you're embarrassed? And if you are honest, wouldn't I be great if you started crying? You've changed my life today.

[Jake Johnson]

Holy shit. I mean, so here's what I feel about gratitude, because you bring up interesting points and it's stuff I've actually thought about a lot. I feel like I'm pretty good at compartmentalizing. So family and life. I do have gratitude. Yeah. We were talking about the outside. House, places that mean some. All that stuff I have a lot of. Every once in a while, I'll be like, wow. Like, this part is great. When I have had moments where I have gratitude towards my job and I go, a fucking chubby kid with my nose from a suburb of Chicago got to live my childhood dream, which was just to be on tv.

[Pete Holmes]

I gotta talk more about the nose. But, yeah, great nose.

[Jake Johnson]

What are you talking about?

[Pete Holmes]

Who hurt you?

[Jake Johnson]

A lot of people who hurt you with that nose. But here, Evanston, it was a pretty progressive, lovely. It's a beautiful town. Beautiful town. The colony of what? No, I'm just kidding. Let's not relive it. No, I'm teasing.

[Pete Holmes]

This goes to color bars.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. But what I'll have is when I have those moments where I'll Go like, oh, I hit all those bars that I wanted to hit. Yes. The stuff that when I was at improv theaters and sketch and writing my ass off and having day jobs and grinding, there was a bar. And when I hit it and I feel gratitude, my shoulders come down. Yes. I feel the desire to smoke more potatoes.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

I have days where I'll go, like. But truly, like, I smoked about once in the last two years because I got the grind back when I'm feeling really good. Kids go to school. One hit with coffee, a slow workout. What a wonderful day. A lunch where you go, what is this restaurant? What do you serve? And I go someplace in Silver Lake where I'm like, well, this is as hip of a place as I've ever been. A smoothie with a weird salad and you can also fry the chicken, but you're using an oil that's not even bad for me. And sweet potato fries. And I start going in. My friends call them Wavy Gravy. Because I start going in a mode of like, life is good and if I'm sick and I'm gonna die, leaning into Wavy Gravy.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

But if we're gold miners and we're prospectors and there's gold in these hills, then the idea is I don't want to go. Like, I got a little basket and when I did that weird shift thing, there was a little gold. I like this feeling of like, live like you're. When you're working. Live like you're broke. Live like you want it so bad. Live like you haven't done anything. You're just starting. Because for me, if I go like, well, what do I really want to do? I think the hobby is creation.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And the hobby is some. So for me, podcast, when I finally got into it, when Gareth pitched me this idea, I said no to him for a long time. And then we. I started seeing it more and I was like, oh, you could have a direct link to audience. You can have like a highly produced show. You could make a lot of them and then you can start trans, you can start passing on other jobs. So if Hollywood comes calling with one of their, like, bullshit low offers.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

That you go like, what is the offer? And they go, well, this isn't a money deal, but you're with great people.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And I go like, well, there's great people everywhere. And so some 24 year old ad is going to make my schedule. I have to show up five hours before we shoot to try on a pair of jeans that are gonna look like all the pants I've ever worn.

[Pete Holmes]

I just wrapped a movie yesterday, that whole game.

[Jake Johnson]

And then you go, there's no money. And then when it's profitable, the streamer decides when they pay you. They decide what your equity cut is. And your big thing is to say, like, well, I got to do this. Gratitude tells me, wonderful. These people I've been are my heroes, are in the same room as me. A grinder goes like, for this money, that's commissioned and taxed.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Fucking pass.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

There's gold in that hill.

[Pete Holmes]

There's gold in a different hill.

[Jake Johnson]

And I'm going over there. And then you see new people I love then studying how they're doing it, getting really into it, and pretending. I need this to eat. And that's what drives me. Because if I go, what do I really want to do? I don't know. But if I go, this is the only way I can, quote, unquote, feed my family.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Well, I'm gonna grind my ass off. And the grind is really what I love.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that's. That's what I. Okay, so I think there's a very interesting area here, and I think there's a little bit of paradox. Meaning.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

You sitting at Cafe Gratitude. I don't know where you were, chicken.

[Jake Johnson]

There's a lot of places like Cafe.

[Pete Holmes]

Gratitude, but you're having a smoothie and your nice salad and you're in wavy gravy.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then wearing Crocs.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Jake Johnson]

Shorts.

[Pete Holmes]

I saw the cargo shorts before you said it.

[Jake Johnson]

You gotta let those. And they're awesome.

[Pete Holmes]

Red Crocs shine.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, agreed. And you go, like, I got so many different things in these pockets and that. And they work. I can use them all at some point.

[Pete Holmes]

They're socks. But you're not using those socks. Let them breathe.

[Jake Johnson]

Well, who cares? I might.

[Pete Holmes]

The Swiss cheese kind.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, you might.

[Pete Holmes]

You might. On a plane.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes, I pull them on on a plane. Why not?

[Pete Holmes]

Remember when planes used to give you socks?

[Jake Johnson]

Yes. Well, they. They still. They still do. Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I haven't seen socks in a while.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. If you. If you do the overnight in the capsules. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Overnight.

[Jake Johnson]

The overnight.

[Pete Holmes]

Overnight.

[Producer/Moderator]

Okay.

[Jake Johnson]

So you're going over the pond.

[Pete Holmes]

So wavy gravy. You and I agree.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Is a wonderful place.

[Jake Johnson]

Agreed. So fun.

[Pete Holmes]

Can I say, though, I'm going to jump to the third point, please. That wavy. Your ability to wavy gravy is informed by. I think about this all the time. You don't want to do nothing yes. You want to do nothing after you did something.

[Jake Johnson]

Something. Yes. Briefly. Right. Yeah. And then you want the next thing coming.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I hear that.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. And that.

[Pete Holmes]

That's one of the weird things that I don't think enough people explain. We want growth.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

We want challenge. We want something that's a little bit scary.

[Jake Johnson]

Yep.

[Pete Holmes]

And. And then you get this.

[Jake Johnson]

Great. You also. You also want comfort in that. So, like, yes, it's scary, but you're like. But my co stars are literal friends.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Or the director and I are. We've worked together forever. So this person and I are a team. But this whole thing is scary. But I think we can do it.

[Pete Holmes]

You're nailing it.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because I just saw Tony Robbins talking about the six needs, and one is certainty. So my friends will be there. Uncertainty.

[Jake Johnson]

We'll see what happens.

[Pete Holmes]

I watched your movie last night. It was wonderful. And there are scenes. Not easy scenes.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes, that's right.

[Pete Holmes]

Great scenes. Great scenes. Didn't like the movie.

[Jake Johnson]

Just kidding. I'm kidding. Hey, man. And that's okay, too. Cause I got a podcast to sell. But if you don't like the podcast, I got a movie, kid. And if you don't like that, I got cargo shorts, I got shoes. I got a car full of stuff.

[Pete Holmes]

Pete, you got so many hills to find.

[Jake Johnson]

Golden.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I love the movie.

[Jake Johnson]

Thank you.

[Pete Holmes]

Watched it last night because you. I couldn't watch it.

[Jake Johnson]

But the uncertainty. What. It was so scary doing it. Everything about it scared me.

[Pete Holmes]

And then growth. Growth is one of them.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Giving. Giving back.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So when you're talking about these projects, you're hitting all of them. I'm forgetting a couple of them. But the mix.

[Jake Johnson]

Everybody by Tony.

[Pete Holmes]

That's why we need him.

[Jake Johnson]

That's. I'll help you.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

That's why we pay his ass.

[Pete Holmes]

That's why we pay.

[Jake Johnson]

You don't pay him because you remember it all. You go to the seminar and go, I know what you're gonna say. You go, I think I got 85%, and I'll give you the 6,500 for the remaining 15%.

[Pete Holmes]

That is so right on. But you're saying. I'm just hearing a lot of wisdom here. It's like you could Wavy Gravy.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

I think about this all the time. It's like, why don't I sell my house?

[Jake Johnson]

Yes. And why don't we move someplace far? That's. You can get a mansion in the.

[Pete Holmes]

Middle of nowhere and just kind of live simply.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. And I'll tell you why.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Tell me what happens to people mostly when they retire. Dead. They deteriorate and they die.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Certain people find an unthinkably good hobby and they weird out. Right. Where you're like, that guy lived for 12 years after. Why he built a boat of toothpicks in his garage. Right. And you go like, great. And that was the thing that they woke up and they were doing.

[Pete Holmes]

Like that guy that built the. He built something out of rocks. There's a lot of tiny rocks.

[Jake Johnson]

A bunch of weirdos. Find some. And if you do that, great.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

But I realized during the pandemic when everything shut down, the plandemic, ooh, we're getting hot. Let's take some alpha brain and talk this out. Let's get into it. But I realized everything shut down in terms of the business.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And I felt. I had a call with an executive at Apple because I had a pilot there and they said, I was like, is this over? And they go, to be honest, we don't know, no matter what, we're going to make something. And he goes, and here's how it could end up. We could end up sending equipment to certain actors with stands like this and you could shoot your singles behind certain backdrops and then editors could put it all together.

[Pete Holmes]

That was one of the plans.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. They were like, this was pre vaccine when we didn't know.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

They're like, but we will be making entertainment. And I was up near Yosemite. We were up by my in laws cabin with my wife and my kids. And I honestly got emotional and I was like, I'm not doing that.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

That's not why I like this game.

[Pete Holmes]

Standing in front of a green screen.

[Jake Johnson]

In your house being like, I don't like it for the individual aspect of it. I don't want to be alone in a room.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

I'm not doing. I don't, I don't care that much about the final thing. I don't care that much about.

[Pete Holmes]

It's the process. It's the process and having something to do and be.

[Jake Johnson]

And caring about it so much. And then when it comes out, I'm not one of those guys being like, I went to nine theaters in a night and snuck in. Why? I wanted to watch everybody cheer when my name came on the screen. That part doesn't hit me once I'm done. It now belongs to them. Who said that? Just name names. I don't have anybody in specific, but that whole thing I don't really care about. Yeah. No, I was like, oh, I'M getting more depressed than I have. I'm like, this is Back to like 16 year old depression where I was like, well, who the fuck am I? What is this thing? So I literally, like built a cabin in my backyard because I needed to, like, every day be excited about something when I was done, feel like, oh, I'm tired, I'm accomplished. So then I could like sit at dinner and my kids, I could like, pull them in and be like, hold that. Be part of this. At night when I didn't know how to do the next thing. Watch YouTube videos to learn.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And I was like, oh, I love.

[Pete Holmes]

That's one of the other ones is growth.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes. Learn a new thing.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Like, put yourself in a spot where you're behind everybody else and try to catch up.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

That is so fun.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like life.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

It's weird, but we are just wired to release certain feel good chemicals and also just long standing positive states after certain. I don't even want to say benchmarks, but you were like, I need a project.

[Jake Johnson]

If we're, if we go back to us at the beginning, I feel like the gratitude movement says we were all meant to sit in a big circle with great hippie clothes on and tell each other how much we love each other and beat on a drum and go home and feel a vibration of peace and love and kindness. I feel like we were brought in this thing to chase an animal and eat and bring it back and have people in myself eat and feel really good when everyone's eating.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And go like they're eating because like.

[Pete Holmes]

The 8 of US contribution.

[Jake Johnson]

And then somebody else does a great thing with that meat and someone else does something. And then when you go to sleep, you're like, hey, you did a great thing to help me sleep. And they go, yeah, I know. I feel great about myself now.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And then everything works. And then as soon as the food starts going out, you're back to getting something else.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that goes back to why I hope you're enjoying doing your podcast.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

My MDMA experience is you're like, I'm, I'm keeping it moving. I'm bringing a different kind of animal back.

[Jake Johnson]

Exactly. Right. That's exactly. And what. And for me, the real fun of it is so, like, for ours, I like the idea of going highly produced. And I was like, I like the idea of editing it the way I edited the movie. So we would cut out like seven seconds at places. And our producer Kevin's like, there are a lot of Notes. And I'm like, I know, but it's really fun. And then, like, finding the type of calls because we have a call in show, and, like, I don't want to get sincere. I don't want a problem that. It's like, I'm a little depressed. Go to a therapist. I want something really dumb but really important to you. So, you know when all of a sudden someone calls up and goes, I bought a pet tarantula when I was 17. I moved out at 18 to college. My mother takes Ambien and now buys pet tarantulas. And we go, how many does she have? And she goes, no joke, 25. And we say, send a photo. And there's A photo of 25 tarantulas in this woman's home in Florida. I'm like, that's a perfect call for us. It's really dumb, but, like, really serious.

[Pete Holmes]

Wait, when she's on Ambien, she takes.

[Jake Johnson]

Ambien at night, probably misses her daughter, and then goes online and buys a pet tarantula. And at this point, she's got 25 pet tarantulas now. And. But going back to what we're talking about, not just this story, but what was your solution? You got to listen to the podcast. Yeah, I don't fully remember. I know we were. Derek was on that one with us. We were pitching a lot. Probably eventually it was, talk to your mom. Oh, I know what it was. Find tarantula rescues or somebody who's going to take the tarantulas and bring that up as an option to mom. So you're not challenging her, but you go, like, 25 is a lot of tarantulas. What's a number that you feel comfortable with? Is it seven tarantulas? What's a number that. What's a normal number of tarantulas? Nine. And make mom say that when she's not on Ambien. And then if she goes, she'll admit, like, I got too many tarantulas. Then you go, if we're at nine, you go, I found a situation. A guy's coming with a truck. He's taking 15 of them or whatever that number is.

[Pete Holmes]

TMT.

[Jake Johnson]

TMT.

[Pete Holmes]

Too many transients.

[Jake Johnson]

That's right. That's a shirt teenagers need. No, no. But while we're doing it and we're grinding on it and we're building the show and we're figuring out what the tone is, and all of a sudden we're trying, and then a new guest comes in or somebody comes onto ours, Andrew Santino. And you know, I did his. And then he calls me up and he was like, get into video buddy. And I was like, but we're, we're in friends. And he's like, yes, it's good, but the zoom's not. And I was like, this is such great advice, man. And now we're in a studio with Ken. I'm like, it's just a fun way to go. Like, this is a whole new game. And then UTA sends an email about a guest star on a hot show after a big thing. And I'm like, pass.

[Pete Holmes]

What's happening, weirdos? This episode is brought to us by our friends at the Perfect Jean. Of course I'm wearing them right now because I'm always wearing them. The Perfect Jean are the best constructed, best looking pair of pants I've ever owned. All of my jeans, all of my khakis are made by the Perfect Jean. Why? They look incredible. I've worn them to premieres. I've worn them on late night shows. But they're so comfortable, you could sleep in them. They have a stretchy little secret. They're made with 2% spandex and 2.5% rayon, which means they stretched. Why are we out there wearing hard, unforgiving pants? Get the Perfect Jean. They're super soft, got just the right amount of stretch. They're like PJs. You could sleep in them. But they look incredible and they're really, really well made. I've had some pairs for years. I don't have to replace them. They got great craftsmanship. So liberate your lower limbs with the one and only Perfect Gene. Whether you got lemons or lentils, a three leaf clover, or a big old honkin eggplant, the Perfect Gene has you covered. Go to www.theperfectgene nyc the perfect j e a n dot nyc and use code weirdo for 20% off. They also got great T shirts. They got lots of great stuff, trust me. Check it out. I'm also super excited. I'm here in LA doing a show tonight and before I left, I was sure to bring my first person supplements. First person have made supplements that have absolutely changed my life and Val's life. And I'm so excited to tell you about Golden Hour. First Person designs precision targeted supplements made with functional mushrooms that aim to stimulate the body's natural production of specific neurotransmitters that trigger activities like energy, mood and sleep. What does that mean? It means take Golden Hour and it helps your Body naturally boost its oxytocin. Oxytocin is so huge. It helps me get into a sense of joy, connection and relaxed presence. I noticed the difference the first time I took it. Val did two without 15 minutes. The effect has built over time and the more I use it, it keeps getting better at helping me mitigate stress and boost. Excuse me, the mind body connection. I take all three of their supplements. I stack it with Sunbeam, which supports the body's natural production of dopamine, the motivating chemical when I need to sit down and work to maximize productivity and creativity by activating the brain's motivation and reward system. And at night I take moonlight, which boosts gaba, the neurotransmitter that helps you relax the central nervous system, fall asleep faster and stay deep asleep. It's incredible. Made with 100% grain free organic mushrooms as well as highly curated blend of nutraceuticals, it's a game changer. Start improving your brain health and cognition with first person. Get 20% off your first order by going to getfirstperson.com and use code Weird. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. All right, back to Jake.

[Jake Johnson]

But five years ago, I have to say yes.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Even though I like the show and everyone's cool because you go, well, the game tells me I have to stay in it.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

But I think this system is taking advantage of people, not the creatives.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And I go, oh, because of this new thing, I get to. Now I get to say no. So I have gratitude for that. But while I'm in it, you should know it. I do have it.

[Pete Holmes]

You get rid of it, you're going to become complacent.

[Jake Johnson]

I don't have any gratitude for it anymore. You're right. I'm a rat with nothing and I need cheese to eat.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Just so with you.

[Jake Johnson]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And it is sort of a shame we could go down that path. Maybe it's the prospector in the gold and somebody shoots you and takes the gold and makes it to town. There is something pure about coming back. This podcast. I didn't even know when I started what it would become. But talk about the pandemic.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Kept us alive.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And then.

[Jake Johnson]

And creatively alive.

[Pete Holmes]

And creatively alive.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Forget fresh, dude, Fresh.

[Jake Johnson]

Something to do hunting an animal.

[Pete Holmes]

And I do the Friday episode. So we have this like built in date. You have a built in date, but Better than a day.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. Yeah. You're right. And date.

[Pete Holmes]

I'd like to think if you and I had coffee, we'd be talking like this and maybe we would.

[Jake Johnson]

I agree.

[Pete Holmes]

Maybe.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

It's heightened.

[Pete Holmes]

But it's heightened with the phones. Everybody's heard me say, that's a million.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. It's nice.

[Pete Holmes]

But there is something strange about this business. You mentioned the commission and the taxing. Having just done a movie.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I literally came home yesterday.

[Jake Johnson]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

It was one of the happiest. I was just telling Katie, my co star, Judy Greer is. She's an actress. I'm a comedian.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Who actually.

[Jake Johnson]

She's a killer.

[Pete Holmes]

She's wonderful.

[Jake Johnson]

Killer.

[Pete Holmes]

And she just had a different approach to it. Like she was booking her next thing.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I was like, I have five.

[Jake Johnson]

Months off and I can't wait to be off.

[Pete Holmes]

I can't.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Wait. I think I would say no.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

If some. In fact, I did say no to a couple things. My manager. Not to. This is a brag. I'm just going to own it. My manager was like, you have this hiatus. You could fly to this thing and shoot it and then fly back. And I'm like, what, are you, nuts? Like, no pass.

[Jake Johnson]

But some people agreed.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm not saying this is Judy 100%, but she was better at sinking into it and doing it. And you mentioned being in the trailer for five hours. The number of times. I want to put this to you, please. When I'm with my babies.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

My wife and my daughter and. And I love it.

[Jake Johnson]

It's.

[Pete Holmes]

That's my life. And every once in a while, you're just like, God damn. It would be nice to just relax and just have some quiet. Let's say then I get to a movie and I have a day of quiet. I'm like, this is dope. Then the next day, I'm like, this isn't so dope.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then something happens. I'm on. I'm in my trailer. I have my book.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I have things I could do. I'm one of those people. I can entertain myself. I like doing breath work. I like doing all sorts of different things. I don't do any of them.

[Jake Johnson]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm in there fucking flipping around. YouTube. I could watch a good movie. I don't even watch a good movie.

[Jake Johnson]

You're on the. You're on the Instagram algorithm. I'm just seeing what's being sold to you.

[Pete Holmes]

Clockwork Orange, let's go. I'm completely orange, but it's because my will. There's something about the uncertainty of being in a room. They could knock at any moment.

[Jake Johnson]

You're not in charge.

[Pete Holmes]

You're not in charge. If I knew I had the whole day.

[Jake Johnson]

You're a goddamn animal in the circus. And then when somebody knocks, it's time to perform. And you go, and you go, and you go and. But you're being paid.

[Pete Holmes]

Something about knowing that the knock is coming keeps me from doing also, because you have to.

[Jake Johnson]

Even if you know the lines, every 20 minutes you go, do I know? You look at them again. And then you go, how are we shooting this? And then you go, you open the door and you go to the base camp, 80. And you go, what time you thinking? And they go, they went really slow today. So what do you think? Probably 11? And you go, well, it's eight. You called me at seven. I wonder why you did that. And then you go, don't be an asshole. You're just a visitor for the day, so have a good attitude. You go, that sounds good. Then you go back in there and you go, well, they're going slow. Then you're looking at it. Then you're thinking, so you're not in your own space. You're also not the creator.

[Pete Holmes]

That's exactly what it is. You're not in your own space.

[Jake Johnson]

But also we are not. So I don't view myself as an actor, but I'm not a stand up. So that has been the, that's been the big kind of catch with me, is I never. I loved actors like, I had two loves. I loved writers like playwright, like writer writers. And then I loved actors like the Bill Murray's of the World or the Vince Vaughns when they were like, like that type of comedic act when they were funny.

[Pete Holmes]

What's that did you say when they were funny?

[Jake Johnson]

When I was younger and they were coming up, I could do that. But the swingers, Vince Vaughn, Yeah, I loved it.

[Pete Holmes]

Skinny Vaughn.

[Jake Johnson]

Skinny Vaughn. I'm not saying yeah, I'm just saying, I mean, look, if there was a Skinny Vaughn, but I'll tell you what, he's still trim, even big. But there was young, I know, even big Vaughn, I can guarantee it. You get in a two shot with him or cross cover to Sid that he likes the material, that motherfucker is gonna let it rip in a way where you're like wonderful.

[Pete Holmes]

I, I completely agree.

[Jake Johnson]

It's like you watch Mike Tyson every once in a while, he'll like throw. You'll see him like at his Age.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And he'll be in, like, a gym training. They'll, like, hit the heavy bag. He's, like, cracking jokes, smoking a joint, and you're like, yeah, Mike's just a guy.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And then he throws those on, and you're like, no, that's Mike Tyson.

[Pete Holmes]

I agree.

[Jake Johnson]

And I love. I love that.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like in your movie, you'd say Wayne Brady, who. I agree.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's just made of talent.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, he is.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like everybody got, like, a little dollop of. He's got a. Wayne Brady just is talent. And they sculpted him because he does.

[Jake Johnson]

A bunch of different stuff. He's a triple threat. He's that guy.

[Pete Holmes]

I agree. And I think Vinnie Vaughn, he is. I feel a little bad for shaming. I wasn't trying to shame him. I'm just saying there's Swingers Vaughn, which is like. It's a young slick.

[Jake Johnson]

He's an animal.

[Pete Holmes]

Animal. But I bet he. I know he.

[Jake Johnson]

I know he still has it, but I felt like when I was coming up, I was like, well, that was the goal. And then I started working and getting jobs. So I came up doing sketch writing, my own stuff, moving around similar to what podcasting is of, like, creating little things.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And then I started getting cast and stuff, and I did a movie that Max Winkler directed called Ceremony with Lee Pace. Lee Pace is an actor.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And a good one. And it was the first time where, you know when you're in your 20s and you have so much ego and you really think, like, you could do everything. Yeah, I was the first time. I was like, oh, my God, I can never do what that motherfucker does.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And it was the first time I didn't hate him for it. I loved him for it.

[Producer/Moderator]

Oh, wow.

[Jake Johnson]

I was like.

[Pete Holmes]

You were humbled.

[Jake Johnson]

I was so. I was so impressed. Yeah.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

He did a scene where he's walking over a hill and he's got this big monologue, and we're all down here, and it's like a page and a half. And I thought, like, get coverage because nobody will remember all those lines. Yeah, right. Yeah. There's gonna be some stumbling.

[Pete Holmes]

That's what I. By the way, none of that in your movie.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm looking for those pieced together performances.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Nothing makes me angrier.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, agreed. Where you see.

[Pete Holmes]

Also been in the edit, and I've built someone's performance.

[Jake Johnson]

Me too.

[Pete Holmes]

And then they're, like, celebrated.

[Jake Johnson]

And I'm like, yeah, we saved your ass. You never gave Me. So in terms of directing, I love actors acting. So I love two shots. I love cross coverage, and I like using entire takes.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

I don't want to have to save you, but. So Lee Pace comes out after his first take. I was in the scene with Angarano and all these other actors who were great, and we were all like, hey, man, welcome to the show. Like, you crushed it.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And I. I was looking at. I'm like, oh, like, your excellence. And the director, Max Winkler, goes, so great, so great. We got it, we got it. But if we do it again, the seventh line. And Lee was like, the one that starts with, like, the pancakes. And I was like, the fuck is he a robot? And he goes, speed that one up a little. And then he goes. Then you could slow down until you get to. Around, like, the 11th. You know what I mean? But then he goes like this. Yes, yes, yes. The water. I'm not making a joke. I thought they were doing a bit.

[Pete Holmes]

It sounds like a bit.

[Jake Johnson]

It was so technical that it was as if Lee Pace was a robot.

[Pete Holmes]

It was code.

[Jake Johnson]

And I honestly thought it was a joke to, you know, like, sometimes you do, like, a really good take and, you know, you crushed it. The other person knows you're in a touchette. You both had a great scene. And then the director goes like, you guys are going with that take. It's like the soft, mean joke.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Which I don't think is mean. It's fun.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

So you just go like, yeah, I think we'll try that. And they're like, okay. So I thought they were doing that version of a joke. Yes, he did the note, and it made it better. Wow. And I remember going like, I just. I'm not.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm not that.

[Jake Johnson]

And I love that. And in mine, literally before the first take, Max goes like, you know, the lines are. The lines. Do what you want to do. And I was like, oh, you didn't say that to Lee because he's an actor. You say it to me because I'm this other thing, a performer. Who knows?

[Pete Holmes]

But what's confusing to me, Jake.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Is that I think you're. I'm not just saying yes. I think you're terrific.

[Jake Johnson]

Thanks, bud.

[Pete Holmes]

I also want to give you a very specific, terrific compliment about your terrificness is that, you know, I wrote my own show, and I feel like when I watch it.

[Jake Johnson]

Oh, thanks, Pete.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Of course, when I watch it, it's probably just me, I hope.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But I can feel Pete, the actor in the scene, and Also Pete kind of watching.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Totally. Yeah. Same with me.

[Pete Holmes]

So when I watch things like I gave Seth MacFarlane name drop, the same compliment that Orville, he doesn't seem to be involved except as an actor. He's just kind of in the scene. And that's what I want to say about self reliance. And I don't know, you're.

[Jake Johnson]

Let me jump in really fast because I have a funny way, but it's really specific to what you just said. It's really specific. So it's really funny. You say you saw yourself watching. Yeah, because.

[Pete Holmes]

And angry sometimes.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like I'm mad that this guy.

[Jake Johnson]

You're now, he's not doing it right or this isn't happening. Right. Yeah. So as an actor, I'm always watching because I. I don't get competitive with my scene partner.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

So if I'm in a statement with Vince Vaughn, I want that guy to roll because I know we're both going to win. If you're in a winner, you win. If you're. And this goes back to the Dell close from the beginning, make your scene partners funny. So Max Greenfield Schmidt from New Girl, I sent him an early cut and he was like, all right, man, I watched your weirdo mushroom movie. He's like, good stuff. And then he goes.

[Pete Holmes]

He's like, it's a mushroom trip.

[Jake Johnson]

Like you'd eat mushrooms. And then you made this movie movie.

[Pete Holmes]

And then he goes, not feel that.

[Jake Johnson]

Way to me either. Yeah, but what he said, which was really funny, he goes, you're really good in it. Besides, when you're at the homeless guy and then you're just. Jake, as a fan watching your favorite actor in the world. And I go like, you're not wrong. Yes. That scene, like with me and Maddie at the restaurant where we're first on the date and he's behind us.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Well, what was supposed to happen as written, we go in there. I go, I'm with her now. I'm good. And he goes like, okay. And goes to another table. Biff Whiff was crushing so hard that I go, you know what we're gonna do? I'm the director. The beauty of directing as I get to make these choices. Put a chair in all of my shots and put Biff behind me. And Biff goes, what would you like me to do? And I go, just listen and react honestly. If you feel like eating, eating, just stay in it. Yes. He choose. I said, just be in it. So in the scenes when she goes, I go like, let's you know, do this. And she goes, should we? Well, instinctually, then, as Jake, I just wanted to go to. Back to Biff because I liked him so much. So I'd go, like, what do you think? Everything he's just doing, he's just reacting.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And all mine is just Jake being like, I love everything about this guy, but whenever I turn back to Anna, I'm back in the movie.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Whenever I'm looking at him.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

The joy that fucking dude brought me.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

I was like, oh, he's so. And also, my tone of the movie was really weird. And as a director, you. As you're pitching it, you know it. You don't know it.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

You pretend to know it.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. Then you start casting it, and you're like, I hope I know it. When Biff Whiff got to set, I knew my tone. Stop saying Biff Whiff. Stop saying that. I can't. And he also said to me a bunch. He goes. Because we got close. We got. And he was like, you know what? One of these days, you've earned it. I'm going to tell you my real name. Still haven't heard it. And I still love Biff Wiff. But when he came, Walter, oh, I'd be so happy. Everything about him. But when he came, I was like, now I know my movie. And I would tell other actors where they're like, you know, the family stuff. How intense should we play it? I'd be like, well, Biff's in it. And how Biff's playing it is right. So you're intense. But we're not gonna win awards for this movie. We're gonna. This is our. This is our phone. We want people to laugh and go on the ride.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And I would think to him at times where I'd be like, I'm getting heavy, but Biff is gonna be in the next scene.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And the movie in the opening credits is gonna have, like, Andy Samba, Chris Lloyd, Anna Kendrick.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Biff Whiff. So I'm like, this is what it is.

[Pete Holmes]

When his name came on the screen, I was like, how do I know that? Because I watch. I think you should leave.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. Tim's the best.

[Pete Holmes]

And for those of you who don't know who Biff Wiff is, he's the older guy. He plays Santa.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And. And he always seems to be. If he's not improvising, then he's the greatest actor in the world.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. But he's always right on the line. He's bringing. So I hadn't I hadn't seen Tim's show until after the casting director recommended Biff. And so we did audition.

[Producer/Moderator]

Stop saying Biff.

[Jake Johnson]

I can't notice how many times I said tarantulas before. There are certain words that just are great. But I was seeing a bunch of old man, homeless actor types. All of them played it the same way. They were all actors. It's a person without a home. It's heavy. It put a fucking 100 pound weight on my movie in a way where I'm like, I don't know what this movie is. Where they would be like, I'll shadow you. I was like, I hate this movie. And I don't know what I'm making because I think it's funny and light. But these guys are doing this scene where they're like, you just started calling me Walter. I was like, what an asshole Tommy is.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Biff shows up with suspenders on, a fedora. The big beard, he's got his teeth in. And I go like, do those. Come on. He's like, yeah. I go, do you feel comfortable? Take him out. He's like, I take them out every time I eat. And then I go. He starts doing his lines. And I was like, oh, my God. Like, you're. I got whiffed. He was the first person I got approved by mrc. I was like, before we go into casting, I said to them, I go, like, we gotta know if we're on the same page. Picture this. I go, is he approved? And they were like, yes, of course. I was like, now we got a movie without him. I'm fucked.

[Pete Holmes]

Because if it was a heavy performance or even an overly serious performance or medium.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

If he's not a great character.

[Pete Holmes]

Your movie. I don't type it well. No, I think I do. I watch movies like this.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

The premise is set up for those of you that it won't ruin it.

[Jake Johnson]

No.

[Pete Holmes]

A guy is inducted into a game.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Where he will be. He has to survive 30 days.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Hunters are chasing him. We don't know anything about these hunters except that they're deadly. And the. The caveat is, if you're with somebody because your character says, well, that'll traumatize my mother. Exactly. Watching me get killed. They say, they won't kill you if you're with your mother. Your character goes, well, that seems like a pretty big loophole. And Val and I, my wife, we loved every moment of it. I actually get. Speaking of my movie, I wrote down the working title of my movie is Bliss. Even though there's already a movie called Bliss. And I wrote down. I wrote myself an email and I wrote a version of Bliss where you get to the inciting thing faster.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Totally.

[Pete Holmes]

And that's another compliment I want to give. Your movie is like, it gets to it fast.

[Jake Johnson]

Real fast. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Do you watch the Killer?

[Jake Johnson]

The Killer? Possibly. I'm not great with titles.

[Pete Holmes]

Fassbender.

[Jake Johnson]

No.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, it's great. That movie. There's. There's a new trend in movies where, again, speed it up. We speed it up.

[Jake Johnson]

Well, I'll tell you why.

[Pete Holmes]

Get. Get to the fun.

[Jake Johnson]

Who are we competing with?

[Pete Holmes]

Everything that's licking your butthole.

[Jake Johnson]

Well, also videos that are really funny and fast. Every show that's ever been done, they're licking your butt. Yeah. And guess what you want to watch Self Reliance or Gone with the Wind.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

If you haven't seen Sopranos, that's there too. So if I give you a boring nine minutes where I'm taking my time.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

I better have. I better be Scorsese.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Or I better be somebody that you go, I'm willing to spend three hours because you're such a genius. If you're not that. Although you better dance your movie.

[Pete Holmes]

Again, another compliment earned. It could have gone slower because I love the fisheye or whatever you call that lens.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I thought that was awesome.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. Adam. Silverad Peas. Shut up. Sorry.

[Pete Holmes]

You did it.

[Jake Johnson]

I didn't even like pretending to say shut up. I'm too. I'm not a little sweet. I like it. I like the. Like the bite. Shut the fuck up. Yeah, let's go. Let's make something together. Okay. Holding these. Goddamn. Shit. Now we're starting.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, but you do this thing with a lens. Is it the lens?

[Jake Johnson]

Yes, it's actually. So it's in camera, right? Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's really cool.

[Jake Johnson]

It's really cool. It's meant to make you feel a little out of touch while you're watching every. You're a little bit in Tommy's head.

[Pete Holmes]

Very, very similar to the thing that I'm working on is like, there needs to be two looks to this movie before and after. And you did that.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I was like, wow. I haven't seen it done like that reminded me of Jesse James. Have you seen the show?

[Jake Johnson]

That was our reference.

[Pete Holmes]

Shut.

[Jake Johnson]

100. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I knew it.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because they do that fisheye.

[Jake Johnson]

Well, it's the same thing.

[Pete Holmes]

It's the old lens. Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And it's. What it does is it blurs the outside and then little things come into focus, but the focus changes, and you don't get to control it.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

So you'd shift it. So the magic of it kind of controls a little bit. So you're in and out of reality, but it's also reality. It's not too crazy.

[Pete Holmes]

No.

[Jake Johnson]

And I just fucks with your brain a little bit.

[Pete Holmes]

Maybe I am complimenting my attention to detail, but I don't know if most people. You notice that the door frame at the beginning is arced.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And you're like, why is it arc?

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, it's because it's a fisheye kind of lens. So anyway, the. The opening of the shot and your dp. What was his name?

[Jake Johnson]

Adam Silver.

[Pete Holmes]

Adam Silver.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, he did a great job. And you could have gone slower.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And that opening, you're in bed and you're getting up.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And the light is coming.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And I was like, what a nice shot.

[Jake Johnson]

Totally.

[Pete Holmes]

I just. Modern movies just.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

They're not doing it. Yeah, they're not.

[Jake Johnson]

That.

[Pete Holmes]

That was sunlight. Or was it.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, that was fire.

[Pete Holmes]

It seemed like it was real sunlight.

[Jake Johnson]

And I was like, it's gorgeous.

[Pete Holmes]

Thank you. It felt real. And I also appreciate a little things, like showing your morning routine over and over, although your phone should have been plugged in.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. You're not wrong. But I'll tell you what. Well, look, I am wrong. It's stupid. It's stupid. That was so stupid.

[Pete Holmes]

I regretted saying it immediately.

[Jake Johnson]

Well, but here's.

[Pete Holmes]

I wanted you to know I.

[Jake Johnson]

It. Watched.

[Pete Holmes]

Watched your movie carefully.

[Jake Johnson]

Well, I can tell. And I truly appreciate it.

[Pete Holmes]

And you could have gone slower. And you do so many montages.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And they all work. That at the end. No spoiler. Every relationship is earned. And when you think, why does he like Anna Kendrick? Well, we saw it.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That's that scene where you're putting her up on your feet. I'm like, well, that. That was 45 minutes of movie.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's just like a little moment.

[Jake Johnson]

A little moment. So thank you, buddy. I appreciate it. And I appreciate you actually watching and knowing for me. When you talk about when you watch yourself in the show and you saw where you were mad and you said where you're watching. Yeah. I just see on this where. In terms of what we were talking about earlier about T. Robbins challenging yourself and learning.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

I was underwater this whole movie, really. So in terms of learning and going, I would be like, I have an idea. I don't know how to do it. Even editing when we first sat down to edit, I was like. Like, I feel like I should know more than I know at this point. And everything felt like a challenge. So all I see with this movie is I wish I could be starting it now, because now I feel like I know what to do with it. So, like, my third act, I. If I could do it again, I would. So we reshot a lot of stuff. We went to south by Southwest, and this goes back to like, the grind and gratitude. We made the movie for 5 million bucks. Paramount paid for it through MRC, so we had distribution through Paramount. We had an international deal they were setting up. The movie was going to recoup. So part of the business that a lot of people don't know is some of it's rigged to be fine.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

So this one with this cast and this premise and this cost and this cost, we're going to be fine.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

So there was no talk of festivals. There was no talk of any of it. So then I thought, like, well, I want to go to a festival because I've done other indies that I haven't, and you miss that kind of spark. So they said, we're not submitting to Sundance Spark Experience. No. So I made a movie during the pandemic called Ride the Eagle, which was a movie we made for $250,000. Literally my backyard. And then when it went to the festivals, I thought, I don't want to go to the festivals because it's just a business expo. I think we could skip that and send it straight to buyers. And we did and we sold it. But it didn't have that. There was a group of people who saw together and got excited and got a buyer excited.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So I was like, good old fashioned. I call that Avatar when there's like a tribe of people that unite around.

[Jake Johnson]

A tree, but also good old fashioned sales.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

If I come to your door and I say, I have a great vacuum for you, you're a little bit afraid I'm gonna come in and you go like, I kind of want a vacuum, but I don't know if it's real. I don't know who this fucking guy is. His tie seems weird. His vibe's a little off. If you go to a place and there's a hundred people watching and everybody's excited and people line up, you'll go, I'm lining up too.

[Pete Holmes]

Nothing draws a crowd like a crowd. Del Close. Last words.

[Jake Johnson]

A lot of Dell stuff.

[Pete Holmes]

It was all what he.

[Jake Johnson]

Well, are you a big Del guy?

[Pete Holmes]

I'm Not a big Dell guy.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. Cause you're stand up.

[Pete Holmes]

But I went to Chicago to do improv. Let's not forget what we're talking about. But the reason I'm not a big deal guy is because he. And I love him and full respect. When I got there, he had just passed.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So he became the symbol of. You missed it. And I hated that feeling.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. I just.

[Pete Holmes]

I resented everyone that was in the Dell Club and I was not in the Dell Club. Same thing happened when I moved to New York. A lot of great standup rooms had just closed.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And they were like, you missed it. I'm like, a lot of my career was me showing up right after when it ended. And then I realized there were other things starting that became the things that ended when other people showed up.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But I didn't know that. That's something you figure out later. But everybody used to be like, well, Dell.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

If you didn't know him, you'll never know.

[Jake Johnson]

And I'm like, 100%.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm saying this as Dale. Close. Eat shit.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because what he was teaching wasn't totally, come sit by my feet. It was here and now. It was like, let's get wild. Let's get real.

[Jake Johnson]

Let's get excited. That's.

[Pete Holmes]

As a. I feel the same way. I'm not trying to be weird. Ram Dass, one of my great teachers, he died, and people are like, oh, he's gone.

[Jake Johnson]

He's gone.

[Pete Holmes]

What are you talking about? This is literally the Be Here now guy.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Here and now is as available as here and now will ever be.

[Jake Johnson]

Exactly. Right.

[Pete Holmes]

So shut the fuck up. Same with Jesus. Same with Buddha, Muhammad, doesn't matter. What are you doing? Acting like. Whatever. Isn't it weird that the awareness that's looking out, pick your favorite person. Their eyes, is the same awareness that's looking out at your eyes? It's right here.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes. But here's the catch. Because I'm always going to be this guy, too. First of all, you're right. I'm feeling emotional.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Second of all, here's the catch.

[Pete Holmes]

Can't wait.

[Jake Johnson]

Grateful Dead. Wonderful thing that happened.

[Pete Holmes]

And we miss it.

[Jake Johnson]

So in 1994 or five, I had. I was dating an older woman.

[Pete Holmes]

Nice.

[Jake Johnson]

Thanks. It's cool. Lost my virginity to her. No. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

She was older and she was wise. Wise in the ways of the sheets.

[Jake Johnson]

She showed me the way. Anyhow, she was older, she was cool. She was into the dead. And she took me with, like, her older friends. We went to see A Dead show. I saw Jerry Garcia. Oh, you saw it? Yeah. I was smoking joints and eating grilled cheese sandwiches in the parking lot. I was surrounded by the dead. I had a cousin who traveled with him for a while. So we knew people. We knew that end of that world in the 90s. We had already missed it, but I tasted that thing with that original group and the old heads who. You'd be like, that guy's like 65 years old. He's been traveling with this. He's 18. Cool. They all live in that van. Whatever, right? And you saw it. You smelled it, right?

[Pete Holmes]

Let's be honest.

[Jake Johnson]

You smelled it. And I'll be honest. What was nice about it is when I was stoned and the weed got on top of me, I. I felt very safe. And I realized, oh, that's what this is partly about.

[Pete Holmes]

A community to keep you safe.

[Jake Johnson]

And you can trip out here, trip sitters, and no one's gonna with you. Like, there might be one tweaker, but the group will weed them out.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Because they want this to feel like when you're high, we're all golden retrievers. We might have dreads.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

But we're golden retrievers.

[Pete Holmes]

It's a safety net.

[Jake Johnson]

It's a safety net.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Home wasn't right. Your life wasn't right. Society is not right. You are safe here in a pack. And while you're here, listen to a song that should be four minutes, that goes on for 25, and just goes like, and you're dancing. Doesn't have to be good. Just go like this. No one's judging you.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

It's all love, right?

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

It was an edit. 14 or 15, whatever age I was, I was like, well, this is a lot better than House of Pain or whatever trash I was listening to.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

I was like, let me put down my other CDs and this might be it.

[Pete Holmes]

Long story short, that made me really have. I don't. I'm not a big FOMO person.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But I watched that. The Amazon prime thing on the day, and I was like, yes, same.

[Jake Johnson]

But Even in the 90s, it was over.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

So you would see the old guys and you'd go, like, when you guys were young and so were they young. This must have been magic.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Cut to 2021. A new version of it with John Mayer is going to doing tours, and there's a new generation of people who will say, yeah, the data is still going. It's the same thing.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And to me, I go, you're Living in a world of spin. I get that you want to experience it. I get that the basis is there. This is a new thing, and this is cool. Be psyched about this new thing, but.

[Pete Holmes]

It'S not the same.

[Jake Johnson]

But it's not the dead. John Mayer's your Garcia, and you could, like mayor, but then you go to those same people.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Like, they're like, I love the dead. I've always loved the dead. It's like, we haven't always. You're 35. And then they go like, well, I've always been. And I go, you go to John Mayer solo concerts. Bodies of Wonderland. You like that? They go, no, I'm not a mayor guy. And I go, yes, you are.

[Pete Holmes]

This is mayor.

[Jake Johnson]

This is mayor. And he's fucking cool. And you like him, and they all like him. But you're going to a Mayor and Friends concert.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And they're doing covers.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And so for me, the only time that gets me annoyed, because I miss Dell, but my brother and I were improv guys growing up.

[Pete Holmes]

You missed him.

[Jake Johnson]

Like, we the same thing as you.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Always heard about him since I was a kid.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Always thought when I got old enough, I would study under him. The idea of Dell was so he's the genius and teaches you how to do it. Right. And if you're not touched by it, you're always off.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yep.

[Jake Johnson]

Well, the idea of now being like, there's a new guy and he is dealt.

[Pete Holmes]

It's not right.

[Jake Johnson]

Just because you read his book doesn't make you. It's different. Right. And so I like the I that feeling, but I don't ever want the spin or the happiness or. What? You want to pretend it's still happening.

[Pete Holmes]

This episode is also brought to us by our friends at Armor. You guys know I'm always obsessed with ways to strengthen my immunity as well as my gut health, as well as my fitness, endurance, metabolism, as well as hair and skin radiance. And I recently discovered one product that does all of that, and it couldn't be easier to take. I just add it to my smoothie. I don't even notice it, but it does so much. It's armor Colostrum. Colostrum keeps coming up in conversations with my friends. What is it? It's the first nutrition we receive in life and contains all of the essential nutrients our bodies need to thrive. I'm talking about about reactivating hair growth and glowing skin by reducing inflammation and puffiness in your face and neck, as well as stimulating stem cells to produce collagen and increase elasticity so it makes you give gives you that glow. Talking about your metabolism and fortifying gut health so you feel less bloated and lighter while replenishing your microbiome, stabilizing blood sugar and accelerating fat burning as well as fueling your fitness performance and your recovery which I'm 44 now, that's so huge and I've noticed the difference right away. So easy. Armor Colostrum is a proprietary concentrate of bovine colostrum that harnesses over 400 living bioactive nutrients that rebuild the barriers of your body and fuel cellular health for a host of research backed health benefits. It's wholly natural, sustainable and was developed with the highest integrity grass fed in the United States. And they guarantee the highest potency and bioavailability of any colostrum on the market for results that you can actually see and feel. I've been using it for months now and I am sold. So we've worked out a special offer for weirdos. Receive 15% off your order by going to tryarmora.com weird or enter weird for 15% off your first order. That's t R Y A R m r a.com weird. Support your body. Support the show. So also brought to us by our friends at Element lmnt. I was actually just talking to someone who takes it. They kept calling it LMNT and I'm like, it's Element, but I get it, it's lmnt. Element Healthy Hydration isn't just about drinking water. It's about water plus electrolytes, which makes sense. When you sweat, you lose both sodium and water and both need to be replaced to prevent muscle cramps, headaches and energy dips. And every morning I get up, up and chug one big old glass of water with Element in it and it boom, wires me, dials me into my day and gives my body what it needs. The solution to getting through your workout isn't just drinking enough water. It's optimizing the water that you're drinking. Element has become a huge part of my wellness program. I drink it sometimes at night. I love the chocolate salt flavor. It's a delicious way to get magnesium, potassium and that sodium into your body for health, performance and energy, giving you that boost. It gives me a wonderful boost. It also tastes amazing and I love the watermelon salt flavor and I love the chocolate salt flavor. If I'm drinking it hot and gets me drinking that water and getting those nutrients and those minerals that I need, Element has come up with a Fantastic offer for us. I just gave it to some friends who drink it after their workout and they say it basically gets them, like, vibrating. They feel so good. Go to drinklmnt.com weird use promo code weird to get a free sample pack of all the flavors with any order. When you order. And if Element doesn't exceed your expectations, they have a no questions asked refund policy. You don't even have to send it back. So support your body, support the show. Go to drinklmnt.com weird and get your free sample pack with any purchase. That's drinklmnt.com weird. All right, back to Jake. You know, it's very similar to our earlier conversation and it's another paradox.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Meaning it's like, have appreciation for what you have.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And what you're doing, but also for the fun of it.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

For the meaning making quality of it. Acknowledge that it's not what it was and it's.

[Jake Johnson]

And it's different.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And what this is. You like.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

But this. Because also that scene now is not what the old thing was.

[Pete Holmes]

But if we're talking. If it's all relative.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

If we can just be completely grateful. As if your movie wins an odd. I know you're not going for us.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

If we're doing that, it strips. We need to have rules.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. I. We have, but we have to have rules to our gratitude too. That's what I'm saying.

[Pete Holmes]

There needs to be a clock on the game. There needs to be found.

[Jake Johnson]

I totally agree. And then with that. Because when I say that I do have gratitude, I just think we've changed it to a world where I'm like, we're all fucking talking out of our asses.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, well, I think you're. We have a similar disdain for. I'm not a affirmations.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Person. I think it's very weird to look in the mirror and say, I'm happy.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Happy.

[Jake Johnson]

I'm happy.

[Pete Holmes]

I think it's much more powerful to get real.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And be like, there's a lot of unhappiness here. You know what my wife taught me that changed my life? She goes, if I'm having a day and I'm just, you know, grumpy, pinch traveling, just don't feel like myself. And she goes, in moments like that, God, it could make me cry. She just goes. And I think she learned it from our friend Mirabai Storr. But it was like. Or Tara Brock, maybe. Isn't it beautiful that I want to be better?

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You start there yeah, you just go like, I'm judging, I'm negative, I'm nasty. And there is another part of me going, like, I would like to be better. I'd like to be better. And instead of going, but I'm not, and it sucks, I'm failing, you just go like, put your focus to the part of you that would like to be better. That. That really.

[Jake Johnson]

You know what? I think we say similar things in slightly different ways. And I agree with. I. I think we are going to come to the end of both saying you're right. Because I really. And I know this is a weird thing to say, but I really like to lose as much as I like to win. And I think losing really matters. So some people say, like with my movie, for example. So anyhow, we get to self reliance here on Hulu. Yes, Here on Hulu.

[Pete Holmes]

This is Hulu.

[Jake Johnson]

Amazing. Congrats.

[Pete Holmes]

I like the Hulu thing where he goes, yeah. Makes me feel like I'm hiding under a table at a party I'm not invited to. I can kind of hear the din of chatter.

[Jake Johnson]

Interesting.

[Pete Holmes]

It has a druggie dreamy.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. It's a mind fuck they're trying to do to get you into it.

[Pete Holmes]

It's not Netflix.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. But so similar. It is now that you do both sounds. There's one guy doing both of them. Yeah. Hulu is under the table side.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

From an alien. It's the same thing.

[Pete Holmes]

Very similar.

[Jake Johnson]

It's. We're saying the detail from the outside. How does this streamer. It could be anything. It could start with hello. It could start with no sound.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

One goes and the other one goes. They're the same.

[Pete Holmes]

But is.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes. Different it.

[Pete Holmes]

That.

[Jake Johnson]

That doesn't like you're here, dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Netflix. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And Hulu is a little more.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's expansive.

[Jake Johnson]

Well, it's also smaller. Knows. Yeah, it does.

[Pete Holmes]

Telling us what the sound.

[Jake Johnson]

Of course it knows Netflix. Look at the numbers. I know. It's the evil empire and it says, agreed.

[Pete Holmes]

The sound says, look at our numbers.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's billions and billions served on the McDonald's.

[Jake Johnson]

100%. Right.

[Pete Holmes]

That's what that's.

[Jake Johnson]

But Netflix knows what it is and.

[Pete Holmes]

It'S the right sound for what it is. What is the sound of Disney plus, though? There is no sound.

[Jake Johnson]

Cha Ching is. Yeah. Gotcha. $40 for a churro, but you're pretending it's your childhood happiness. Cha Ching. I'm in the happiest place on earth, but everybody here is overweight, eating churros for A thousand dollars. Cha Ching.

[Pete Holmes]

Who said that there was some. This actually goes back to what you were saying about losing.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That they. I heard Alan DeBotton debut say that he was quoting somebody else saying that there's nothing more. There's nothing that creates more rage than the lie of Disneyland.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. And it's because Disney really depresses me. I'm not a Disney adult.

[Pete Holmes]

I am. I. I'm not.

[Jake Johnson]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

I know what you're talking about. And I'm not that. Yeah, I can go and love it.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But if you go to the happiest place on earth and you don't feel it.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It creates this rage as opposed to. And this is all pro Disney.

[Jake Johnson]

I know. But it's all the same stuff. Because what they're selling is because the sign tells you it's the happiest place. You're spending money you don't have. If it's the happiest place. Fucking churros are free. You're in. We figured it's the hat. You can't say the happiest place. And this family's working their ass off and all the kids want the same shit. And I know because of my kids, if someone's wearing those fucking ears, I want the ears. Well, those ears are costing you 80 hours of your job. This is not the happiest place. This is the biggest hustle on fucking earth.

[Pete Holmes]

Can I say I love that Tying into what Alan de Botton was quoting is you go. That seems like a revelation you'd have on psychedelics where you're like, it's the happiest place on earth. But why does it cost money? Why are there.

[Jake Johnson]

Because they're selling you a lot. And there's that. Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

So is reality. The whole thing.

[Jake Johnson]

But that's why I like losing. And that's why I don't like gratitude. Because what is great about. But honestly, No, I love it. Because what is great? Like, for example, when I made my move movie and it was so hard, way harder than I thought, it beat me. I was balding, my body was falling apart.

[Pete Holmes]

Really.

[Jake Johnson]

I couldn't hold food down for a while. I'm like, in between, during. I'd, like, lay on my trailer floor and make videos to my brother. And I'd be like, another wonderful day. Like P.T. johnson at it again. Like, can barely walk. So tired. Absolutely hate it. Can't wait till. Beautiful, Wonderful, wonderful. As good as it gets. Why am I making this movie? That's what I felt every day it ended. And a lot of People were doing the like, hey, dude, you did it. You won. You made a movie. And they're like, when are you gonna feel happy? And I'm like, no, it's. View this more like what it really is. And it's like mma, right? So we all think in this business you get to participate, right? So you're a professional fighter. You did jiu jitsu as a kid. You got into some striking. You wrestled in high school. What am I gonna do for my life? I'm gonna fight. Why? I love it. I don't fight because I want to smash. I don't want to hurt people, but I love this art form.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Then you get signed by a big contract, you get a little bit of money, you wear the tight Reebok pants, and here you are now you're gonna be on the main card at Madison Square Garden. You're not the fucking title shop, but you're here. Your whole family's coming. Everybody's proudy. Look at you, man. You really did it. Well, you go in there and the guy beats the living fuck out of you, smashes your nose, cracks your jaw. You don't even get one good lip in afterwards. You're in the locker room, people are not saying, you won, you showed up. They're proud of you for trying, but you got your ass kicked.

[Pete Holmes]

They don't want to look at you, and.

[Jake Johnson]

And it's hard to look at you. Because I love you.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

But you lost.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Our business is trying to create something of spinning every loss into a win. Because you tried.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

I don't buy it.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

When you lose, you lose. And it hurts, and it should, because you lost.

[Pete Holmes]

This is part of the movie, but. Yeah, but I feel your feelings.

[Jake Johnson]

Feel the loss, because it's okay. It's okay to go. That motherfucker is better than me.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And I'm not done. Yeah, but you went on a fucking mountain, and so did I. And you have so much gold. And it's not because everyone wants to say luck or because you're better at looking for it.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And what I'm gonna do is wake up and go, maybe I can get better.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And without feeling that loss, you then go, what am I gonna wake up and do? I don't know. I might smoke a joint and get some fucking smoothie and look at this place. And when the waitress goes, like, I really like new girl. Go like, thanks, and feel really great and go like, listen to some good music and go, wow, Moondog's cool. How am I Going Griffith Park. Take a hike. Exercise is neat. I'll be home by the time my kids go to bed or I mean, by the time they come home from school and then I'm in their bed, I get to weird out on the Internet. Right? Fun day. Pass, man. Pass man. Pass man. At 9am, get mad, drink coffee, figure it out until 3, then do the rest.

[Pete Holmes]

I hear you so clearly. I'm gonna do what I always do, but it's gonna be very brief.

[Jake Johnson]

Please.

[Pete Holmes]

Richard Rohr, Father Richard Rohr, who's a Franciscan, says that Christianity is a study on how to lose. And I think it's so funny. It's a story about a guy who realizes his oneness with God and then they murder him. And we've turned it into prosperity gospel. Like if you, if you roll with this guy, nothing bad will happen to you and everything. Don't worry. It's all for a reason and nothing more than you can handle. I'm like, it is death and resurrection, but the death is such a huge part of it. And if you, if you read the entirety of the Bible, there's so much just like.

[Jake Johnson]

Humanity and.

[Pete Holmes]

Exactly. And that's why it endures, actually. And what is unappealing and what makes my dick go inside my body is just.

[Jake Johnson]

It's the Disney of everything. Yes. But modern character. Yeah. Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Break your tooth.

[Jake Johnson]

But modern spirituality. For me to go there is going in one direction of saying, like, we don't have to deal with the other half of this. And the other half of humanity is when we're talking about you golf and you try to get that animal. Well, the animals trying to live.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

You don't always get it.

[Pete Holmes]

Or it kills you.

[Jake Johnson]

Or it kills you.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Or it fucking rams you. And you go like as you're being a fucking hotshot and telling everybody, like, so the way you do it is blank. And then you roll down the hill cuz you twisted your ankle bad. And they're like, now we gotta carry his fat ass around. Or the group goes, or do we leave him?

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And you're like, that is a huge part of this game that. It's just people wanna brush that aside and go. It's about love and light and happiness and positivity and Disney's the greatest place on earth worth. But do not look at that family where, you know, mom and dad are going like 80 bucks for the ears.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm not even. This isn't like a vegetarian agenda, but like you're eating a 100 leg and you're like that turkey is.

[Jake Johnson]

The hypocrisy of everything drives me nuts. And I have like, people who will be like, they'll talk about what dog lovers they are, how their dog sleeps in bed with them. Because I'm a little grossed out by animals. So I love animals. But like, I believe in farm animals. Right. I have two dogs. Dogs, but I can't believe they live in our house.

[Pete Holmes]

I couldn't be talking to a better person.

[Jake Johnson]

But I can't wrap my head around the fact that and my wife and my kids, those dogs are their siblings and in the house. I'll never win this debate.

[Pete Holmes]

Can I tell you a line that I. I don't even like that I say this, but we're in a safe place. I say I love my dog as much as I can love anything that's constantly shitting on my lawn.

[Jake Johnson]

Agreed.

[Pete Holmes]

There's so much shit come everywhere.

[Jake Johnson]

Also, do you have a dog that if there's like a dead animal, rubs their back on it for the smells and then gets in the house?

[Pete Holmes]

It drives me crazy. Cause I see, and this is all projection, but I just see this wild, unregulated instinct machine that's just like, like rubbing its face. If there was jizz on the ground.

[Jake Johnson]

My dog would be like, he'd love just the DNA of it, of course.

[Pete Holmes]

And then it'd come in. I'm also working on a joke right now where I go. You ever notice that houses that make you take your shoes off, they always have a of ton dog.

[Jake Johnson]

Are you kidding? In what world who are you kidding? But you know what I love? Doesn't work. It doesn't work. But you know what I love? Outdoor cats.

[Pete Holmes]

I love an outdoor cat.

[Jake Johnson]

We have two outdoor cats. One of them Peter Self reliant. Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

If I. I would have said that if your movie was called Jack and the Bean Dick.

[Jake Johnson]

It was their self. I. I respect and. And I'm happy to pay for the food and if something goes wrong. You mean the rewards. Yes. But I'm also. I'm also happy to pay for the vet where you go, like, Pete's ass is in trouble. We are cats named Peter, so. And he's. He's a bad man. He really is. He's one of the baddest human beings I've ever met on planet Earth. And when I'm alone with Pete and I'm sitting outside looking at him, I've never pet him once in my life. Never once.

[Pete Holmes]

That's why you guys understand.

[Jake Johnson]

We've had him. We Lived in atwater Village probably 11 years ago. And he and his sister were kittens under a truck. Truck. And my wife found him, brought him in our backyard. His sister was eaten by a coyote. There's been so many times where you'll, like, hear all the coyotes. And my wife will be like, I'm gonna put Peter in the shed. And she can never grab him.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Because he's moved with us three times. He's mixing it up because the coyotes know his ass and you don't. With Pete, I will say, every once in a while, I'll see him. I'll be in my neighborhood, he's on some random roof. And I'll just. We'll make eye contact. And my thought will be like, God bless you, man. Do your thing. You're out here living. You're out here living. He'll be gone at night. We live near. In Pasadena. We have real animals out there. One day they're gonna get him. And when they get him, I think I should figure out what I'm gonna do in his honor when he dies. Something cool.

[Pete Holmes]

This is like the island where Leo tells the story about killing the shark. And the shark goes, enjoy your dinner. That's what Pete will say. He'll grab them with, he's dying and he.

[Jake Johnson]

Enjoy your life.

[Pete Holmes]

Lay back.

[Jake Johnson]

And then. Or he'll fake dying, and then he'll get one in the eye.

[Pete Holmes]

Of course. A little souvenir.

[Jake Johnson]

Souvenir. But I love an outdoor cat.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

I can't wrap my head around that. My dog's aren't covered in my house. And they go on the couch and they walk around and their tail hits everything.

[Pete Holmes]

It's just.

[Jake Johnson]

They go outside, they're wet. They get on the couch, it's raining. Oh.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm like, constant paw prints.

[Jake Johnson]

Constant. And I go, I can't wrap my head around this. But I also know as somebody in the tribe, and that's a family, it brings joy to everybody else. So I also have to know, shut the up.

[Pete Holmes]

We are so similar on this. I. I have to train myself to be like, look at the joy it gives them. And that's good for me.

[Jake Johnson]

It is.

[Pete Holmes]

That's a type of losing I have every day because I'm like. And I work on it. You know what? I share this on the pod. Another time I project so much. It goes back to what we were saying, actually, about, like, the dog is fed and he has a place he'd.

[Jake Johnson]

Be fed and cared for if it lived in the back shed and was outside all day. Facts, which I would love if we. If I had a farm, I would love my dogs so much.

[Pete Holmes]

Just running around.

[Jake Johnson]

Work dogs. I think they're the greatest thing on planet Earth.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

I did a Peace Corps thing when I was 18, and I was in Costa Rica, and I did something really stupid. But they said, if you're. If Spanish is bad, be in a situation because there's English immersion. No, like. No, like, because you're supposed to be really good at Spanish before you go. If your Spanish is fluent, you can go more rural because the program hasn't been there before. Well, I grew up outside of a city, and my grandma. My family was in the city, so I was in Chicago all the time. So did this program called Amigos de las Americas. We're gonna build latrines down there. And I thought, like, what does that mean, Amigos? I'm just kidding.

[Pete Holmes]

Could you translate that?

[Jake Johnson]

Franchise? And I thought I did my setup thing, and they said, how's your Spanish? And I said, fluent. And I said, and I didn't come to do this to be in a city in Costa Rica. So they said, oh, so you're looking for more kind of rural, untapped things, Meaning this program has never been there, so I'm going to have to be the one to explain to the people in the village what we're doing. And I said yes, because I checked all the, like, 10, 10, 10 in one direction. They didn't give me a partner. So I was dropped off in a village with no electricity, barely running water. This is a true story. Dirt floors. I was in a house that had. The ceiling just wasn't fully connected. Cockroaches everywhere.

[Pete Holmes]

Cucarachas.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, Just like. You would literally be, like, there. A cucaracha goes over, you just go like this. The first night I got there, they said in honor of. I think they said I honestly couldn't understand. I'm very dyslexic. I'm so bad at other languages.

[Pete Holmes]

You didn't speak Spanish fluently?

[Jake Johnson]

No, no mucho espanol, Pero solo un poco pedo. No, no, no comprehendo, pero, pero you.

[Pete Holmes]

You speak more than you understand.

[Jake Johnson]

See? No comprehendo, pero puerto.

[Pete Holmes]

You were a liar.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes. So their day one was your experience, and they. No one knew what Amigos de las America was. No, I didn't have.

[Pete Holmes]

Including you.

[Jake Johnson]

You were like, I really married. Well, we didn't have the time. Oh, no. So I get to get to the dogs. I get dropped off there, and it's a world of trouble It's a world of trouble. They are truly confused why a gringo's there. So I do my only survival technique and I assimilate. No, I start taking off my shirt. I don't wear shoes because they don't wear shoes. I get it. The program at one point said, because when women would walk by, all the guys would sit on a porch. They'd go, and the women there would go.

[Pete Holmes]

So it was a call and response.

[Jake Johnson]

Well, they all knew each other. Oh, this is the same. There's not. There was eight houses.

[Pete Holmes]

We should bring that to Manhattan.

[Jake Johnson]

Where they're like, hey, sweetie, I know. Check me out. Well, long story. I get reports back saying one of the women from Amigos was with some people. And the word is there's a gringo up on the hill who's shirtless, working with the guys, not doing anything to the program and like whistling at women. So I went full. I just have to survive here. I'm just now in. Food was scarce because I had to ask for it. I would go. I was supposed to go to huts, find a family, ask if they wanted a latrine, and in response I would get my dinner.

[Pete Holmes]

You dig shitholes?

[Jake Johnson]

I would dig shitholes for dinner, Yes. I couldn't communicate the food, so I'd have to like climb trees and eat mangoes. Long story short, I was so lonely. There was a neighborhood dog that was so skinny. You climbed trees in a manual? Yes. Real talk. I lost so much weight. I have photos of it. My mom said I was never the same person when I came back. She said, like, you were always weird. Now it was a different weird, but I had. There was a dog that I went with every day. It would be outside of the house I stayed at. I would wake up, it would be there, I would. Whatever rice the family had left at it. I would give a little to the dog. This dude was my best. I was like, loved him the greatest. I would take 8 mile hikes to find a place. He was right with me. He was first. Every once he would bark and I'm like, I'm sure you're scaring off a snake. I would have given that dog half my food. I would have done anything to protect it. My dog. Now I look at this fat, lazy, suburban piece of shit and I'm like, all you do is eat and watch TV and, and moan and you stink and cry. If. If I'm wrestling with my kids, the dog will be like, me. You're not a kid, you're A dog. You should be in the jungles of Costa Rica with me, helping me partnership this.

[Pete Holmes]

We've only been having one conversation because we're talking about, like, a meaning of life and, like, finding something to do. And I think both of us are projecting onto our dogs, perhaps rightfully, just a sort of like, you just live at the spa.

[Jake Johnson]

Fuck you. And I know we're talking to a part of ourselves.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

Because that would be the case because you're a grinder. We both grind.

[Pete Holmes]

Rise and grind.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. But look from the outside, from what I know of you, you're a standup. Then you got an HBO show.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Nobody gets an HBO show. And you got an HBO show about house sitting and stand up. And now your show, you're with top standups. You're at whatever that's called, the Cellar, where you're sitting at, like, the good table there. You're filming at that table.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

You got Artie Lang. So that is a rise and grind, then. I don't know if that was the one with Judd, but I remember, like, Judd christened you.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Right. And it was like, oh, you don't get that by being a fucking lazy dog sitting at home.

[Pete Holmes]

My dog is never gonna have a TV show with you.

[Jake Johnson]

But you just don't. You get that by grinding.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And so there might be a part of you that just wants to sit, that gets mad at the dog. But I know there's a part of me that's really lazy and blah, blah, blah. But the majority of me.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Is a fucking dog.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, I think when we find ourselves behaving unkindly or even if it's just thoughts, I'm very sweet to my dog. In fact, I over correct this dog thinks I love him so much because there's part of me that does.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

But like, we. If we're being rough with somebody or a dog, I think we are just treating them how we treat that part of ourselves.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And we're getting a little glimpse. Did you see War of the Worlds with Tom T. Cruz?

[Jake Johnson]

Who was he with in that one? Was that Emily Blunt?

[Pete Holmes]

No, that. That's War of the Worlds. Was Spielberg, I think.

[Jake Johnson]

Okay. No, I didn't see that one.

[Pete Holmes]

Anyway, there's a part where Tim Robbins is in the movie and T. Cruise has to. Who cares? I'm gonna spoil it.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's a great scene. It's. It's T. Cruise and his daughter. I think it's Dakota Fanning, maybe. Yeah, it is. And Tim, it's somebody like that. And Tim Robbins is there, and they're all hiding from the aliens. And these aliens are like your cat.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

They're everything.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

There's no fighting the aliens.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And they're like, we're gonna stay here and we're gonna find a way to, like, hide and find other people. We're gonna, like, escape. And Tim Robbins has clearly lost his mind. And he's like, we're gonna make a plan. We're gonna go out there and we're gonna fight these things. And then T. Cruise realizes the only way out of this is I have to go in the back. His daughter's there, close the door and murder Tim Robbins.

[Jake Johnson]

And great dude sequence.

[Pete Holmes]

The amount it is and the amount that I relate to that. The parts of myself. When my wife in real life left me.

[Jake Johnson]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

I had to go in the back with a part of Pete. It was like, this guy isn't working.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Isn't that terrifying?

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

But it was so.

[Jake Johnson]

I like that a lot.

[Pete Holmes]

I actually. When I say that I'm not, like, sad that I had to kill that guy. I had to do that with my drinking. There have been parts of me that I was like, can I talk to.

[Jake Johnson]

You for a second?

[Pete Holmes]

And I close the door from the sweeter, gentler parts of me. My daughter.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. 100. Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And I murder shit.

[Jake Johnson]

So. So. But by the way, this is how we totally relate. So when I said earlier, I compartmentalize. Yeah. So with my wife and kids, there's a part of me that is really sweet and really different. Now they'll see a little bit of the other guy. When I'm pushing them to do homework. Like, you know, when I'm saying to them, like, I do expect more for you because I want to put a little dog. But I. But I also. I want them to have the dog. Dog. If they move out of my house. And their thought. Because my mom raised me to be tough.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

She raised us that, like, the world is a bad place and the world is scary. And as many people are trying to help you, which there are. There's people trying to take from you. And I feel like a lot of people want to just believe that the world isn't so bad.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And the world is really great. And that is true. But this is a living nightmare. It's both good.

[Pete Holmes]

Is only defined by.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes. But if you don't think about the other. It's not great. When I think about work. So, like, I'm really balancing at home of like. Because I'll do the same Things. I'll have big talks with Jake in the back where you're like, ease up, my guy. That was too much, fat boy. Chill. Hey, it's a lot of drinking when everyone's like, and for me it's really weed. Stop it. Because I'll go like, well, I did yoga after I smoked weed. And I'm like, well, it's also Wednesday and you're alone. And by doing yoga, you went in your garage and you watched some like, lady teach yoga and you kind of did the moves and then the music got louder than her talk. So essentially you watched a lady do yoga while you got high.

[Pete Holmes]

A two dimensional lady, my man.

[Jake Johnson]

That's not yoga.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that was your. Can I talk to you for a second?

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. And so my talk to myself is, then why are we doing this? And the answer always comes, I'm bored. Why? Because I don't. If you. If you need money to pay your bills, you work, you grind. And so I then get back to the thing of I haven't done anything in this game. I haven't started. The race is happening. I got two fucking bum knees and two ankles. But I got to figure out a way to finish. I'm fucking broke. I got so much I've wanted to say and I haven't said it. Time's ticking. I'm not going to be on this rock forever. And at any second I'm going to get kicked off the carousel and I'm going to look back and go, I had my dream and I didn't fucking scrap for it. And I'm gonna go. Because once it's over, there's gonna be a moment when the town just moves too far away from you. You see so many actors you love that all of a sudden you're like, whoa, what happened to them? It just went a little bit away. I cannot look at myself if I'm old and sick and getting into the drug phase and saying like, pump that. One of the thoughts can't be, well, you didn't work that hard when you literally were living your dream. Yeah, it's like, well, what's the. No. Now. I did understand when my kids were born, there was a big change going on. Locations changed, the priorities changed. Being a dad to them became number one. Yeah, but you're not a dad 24, seven. Yeah, grow the fuck up. There's times where you can work.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And the times are from 8. Really? When? At 3, when they're done. But then they're just watching screens or doing like, whatever they're doing until about 5:36. So from 8 until 5, work as if you need it to live.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And then once it's over, try to switch out of it without weed or a drink. Like, I don't want to. Then be like, all right, it's over. Stressful. It was intense. I need one cocktail, and then I could be a dad, because I did that for a while. That's dog. So then you're like, no, just snap into place. And then the only person when I'm in that, like, happy Disney version of mine I like is I go, I don't like the dog. And I'm not gonna be nice to it. I'm never gonna hit the dog. But, like, I'll be like, this is my family. I love my family. I love this. And then I'll hear like. And I'll be like, you're on the outside looking in, pal. And I know you don't speak English, and I know you can't understand me. And I will pet you when I get in.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And I'll make sure you're fed, and you'll go to a vet, and I'll pay someone to walk you a few times a week. You're gonna have a privileged life, but that doesn't mean I have to like you.

[Producer/Moderator]

That's.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, it goes back to your thing about losing.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And feeling your feelings.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And being honest about your feelings. Growing up religious, I learned to, like, pave over so many feelings. Just look.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And seem happy.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And even worse, converted. Like you've figured it out.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes, that's right. Yes. But going off of that. And this is the era that I hate so much about right now. Everybody's always talking about how it used to be really bad, but now it's great. And everybody goes, if you met me before, I was in a really shitty place. And now I put it together, and the reality is you haven't. The reality is you're still in a really shitty place. You're just in a better place. But for some reason, everybody is now over the hill of bad and into the valley of goodness and into the valley of virtue. And everything is going great, but you should have seen the dark days. So I'm gonna lead you here with me where the reality is it's dark everywhere, shitty everywhere. It's also great everywhere. So you are not. You have to be honest. Yeah. So the only people who say, it's great everywhere, they always then say, now pay this.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

So I. This is perfect. I'm going to lead you. This is your fee. Once that fee comes, you go. That's why you're saying it's great, because that's what I'm paying for. You're paying for Tony Robbins to tell you that remaining 15%. You're paying for someone to give you their happiness. That lead you to it. It. But the truth is, they're in the just like you.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I'm. I'm like you. I like goals and focusing on good things and asking what I want and how I want to feel and. And getting the balance right and all of that. And I'm also. Sometimes I get really overwhelmed with just how fragile we are. Like, I took it as a foregone conclusion that you would show up.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's a miracle that.

[Producer/Moderator]

Katie.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. You're totally 100, right?

[Pete Holmes]

We're Dandelions in the cracks of the sidewalk.

[Jake Johnson]

I can't think of that. Because that gets overwhelming with all the people you love. You're like. I'm like, no, no, no. What I can think about is my dog's asshole's annoying. Well, you just said it, right.

[Pete Holmes]

I think would rather be angry than upset and afraid.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But I do think that's interesting.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes. So go. So when I was 15, my. I dropped out of school for a year. And right around that time, my aunt, who was homeless in la, wanted to be an actress. Had some mental problems. My mother had. Because she got cancer. My mother moved her in with us. So she died in our home. And my mother said it was too much for her. So she said, like, something you could do while you're around is keep Lucy company. So at the time, even though I was told she is going to die, we are past chemo. There is no light at the end of this tunnel. She said, I'm going to die. I believed this is our relationship forever. You're really sick in bed. I bring you popsicles. We talk. You tell me about what you're feeling. We go for walks. You explain how your brain shifts and that's why you fall. And I was like, neat. You explain, explain what it's like to start deteriorating. I explain what it's like to, like, start living my life. And we have this great thing. And when she died, I was shocked, really shocked.

[Pete Holmes]

Because you weren't looking at it.

[Jake Johnson]

Because that part of our existence. Well, if you. I mean, it's overwhelming. It's insane.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

But what I did get from that goes to this idea of wanting to be a dog and work. This does not last forever. And that's a guarantee.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And there is going to be a moment. Moment for all of us. Either fast and sudden, or hopefully the things start to fall apart and you go, well, I'm an old car. And now this doesn't work now. That doesn't work now. I lay down most of the time. Now I have a drip. Now I'm connected. My dad used to say before he died, he would go, my life used to be so big. Now it's so small, and it gets smaller and smaller. And I'm like, oh, that's what would make sense. But right now it's still pretty big. Because he would always say. He'd go, like, you're in such a great period. He's like, you know, he used to run a car dealership. And he'd be like, looking back, it was so fun. I get, like, a big deal. We got, like, taxis. And he's like, I had fucking shitty Chevy on every fucking cab. It was the best. And I'm like. We'd be talking and I would forget because it'd be over the phone. He's about £130 now and sick in bed. And when we hang up, he's just waiting for the next call. But there was a time he got the fucking taxi deal.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And I'm like, so if you don't get the taxi deal, let it kill you.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

I'm like, because this is the fun.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And.

[Jake Johnson]

And the ups and downs, the roller coaster. If it's all up, it's not fun.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

If everything is great, I have so much gratitude. How's everything? That goes back to my buddy Eric. The maid was in the hotel room. We were standing outside. He goes, this is perfect. No, it isn't. In 30 minutes, when we're drinking these Japanese beers and eating these chips that we just got from, like, the Japanese market, the game's on. This will be perfect.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Right now it's a bad moment. And if we don't acknowledge this, then when you say, that's perfect, I don't trust you.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, in the. You know, I'm a spiritual person. They call that the love and lighters. You keep saying that, but there's a term for it, right?

[Jake Johnson]

Which is what? Love and lighters.

[Pete Holmes]

Love and lighters. Lighters.

[Jake Johnson]

The.

[Pete Holmes]

The people that are all love and light. All love and light.

[Jake Johnson]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

You see this a lot in cults.

[Jake Johnson]

Do you watch? I love cult stuff.

[Pete Holmes]

Love is one. Or whatever it was on hbo.

[Jake Johnson]

The most recent one. I haven't seen it yet.

[Producer/Moderator]

No.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, you know, spoiler alert. It's the same as all of us. It starts there, and then this shadow that is on.

[Jake Johnson]

Because you're saying I can't see the darkness.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So then it sneaks up on you.

[Jake Johnson]

It doesn't have to sneak. It just walks up. Right. It just opens the front door.

[Pete Holmes]

But that goes back to your movie. Is that, like, the feeling it captured the feeling of like. I'll tell you this to tell you that there was a. I live in Ojai. And there was. There was an earthquake. And it wasn't big.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It was the biggest one I've ever been in, but. And my sweet little daughter ran to me and we went outside and it was actually kind of a fond memory.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because I got to feel like a dad.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Hold her tight and all that. And then later that same day, we went and saw. I've told this before, so I'll tell it quickly. We went and saw Shrek, the musical. Little local production of shrek the musical, four o'.

[Jake Johnson]

Clock.

[Pete Holmes]

But the earthquake had happened at, like, 11am so there's still aftershocks. So we're in the play. And it was. It was great. You know, there were parts that were funny because it's kids, but it was great. I was unironically enjoying it and ironically enjoying it both. And every once in a while, there'd be an aftershock and everyone would be. And the people on stage were like. And I was like. And I. This isn't a dark thought to me. It's that slide.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Is we're putting on a play.

[Jake Johnson]

Totally.

[Pete Holmes]

And every once in a while, there's an earthquake and it gets really scary. And John Mayer quote, we're slow dancing in a burning house, is another way to put it. But I think the way out of that isn't around it.

[Jake Johnson]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

It's through it.

[Jake Johnson]

Totally.

[Pete Holmes]

And let. Let the earthquake inform. And it did.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I remember that play. The ties of adrenaline and that sort of stuff to memory and, like, all these. Why we have a hard time forgetting traumatic things.

[Jake Johnson]

Things.

[Pete Holmes]

But, like, we've said this a million times on the pod, but ice cream wouldn't be delicious if we lived forever.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And if it wasn't kind of bad for you.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, we like that.

[Jake Johnson]

Agreed. And I'm totally with it.

[Pete Holmes]

It's interesting when we talk about death, though. So you watched your mom. Your mom died.

[Jake Johnson]

No, no, my aunt.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, I'm sorry.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Your dad died, though.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And you've seen some of this I just want to put this to you, kind of getting into the spiritual part. If we want this Thomas Merton quote. I can't. He was a Trappist monk and a brilliant man. He had this thing where he goes, and this is shadow. My favorite mystics talk hard about the shadow. They're not. They're not love and lighters. And they go like, we all die alone. That's where he starts. He goes, we die alone. And this. This always gives me a chill. He goes, you can pull everyone you love into your bed with you, but it's still you going on the toboggan.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then he goes, paradoxically, the salve to that anxiety isn't denial. It's to explore. What is it that you call alone? Like, it's another way of saying that spiritual thing is, who am I? Or what am I really? So you go deeper. You don't stay up here and go like, oh, I'm Jake. I made a movie. I was on the new girl. All that stuff is. We know that's that in that image in the movie where he looks out the window and there's the cowboy with the gun. That's us.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Even when I get up to pee in the night, I'm thinking like, whoa, yes. We're so fragile, so there's no escaping it. But that going through that fear and into the question, who am I and what am I really? Is the only way to go. What do you mean by alone? And you go. So.

[Jake Johnson]

Rebuttal to that is. Yes. I also have to hit the bathroom too.

[Pete Holmes]

She just let me at the 90 minute light. Okay, we go two hours.

[Jake Johnson]

Okay. Can I do a quick break?

[Pete Holmes]

You can. Right here.

[Jake Johnson]

But this is fun.

[Pete Holmes]

This is a. Oh, I thought you're Katie.

[Jake Johnson]

This is a disaster. Oh, sorry. I'm sorry. Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

I didn't really finish the point.

[Jake Johnson]

Please jump in.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's going to be New Agey, and that's going to wind you up even more.

[Jake Johnson]

Good.

[Pete Holmes]

But when you get into the eye.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

That says, I am alone.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

What we mean by the I, which is your consciousness, which is your awareness, which is being itself. And you get curious about the nature of that being. You recognize that it can't be alone. It's the same everything as everything.

[Jake Johnson]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

So it's the opposite of alone.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You could call that union with God, one with the universe, whatever it is, is. But isn't it funny that the answer, or as I said earlier, the salve to existential loneliness is actually go de as deep as you can into it.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And explore that spacious void.

[Jake Johnson]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And go like, this isn't a void. This is.

[Jake Johnson]

Let's see. I think that's a spin.

[Pete Holmes]

Tell me.

[Jake Johnson]

I. Yeah, I think that's a great way of looking at dying alone. But when you die and you see the person go from living to not living, it's. They're there, and then they're just a body sack.

[Pete Holmes]

Body sack.

[Jake Johnson]

And it happens fast, and it's grim. And with my aunt, you know, we had. We changed her clothes, so I, like, pulled the arm through and the person.

[Pete Holmes]

On her dead body.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. So, like, she died, and then my mom, you know, didn't want her in those clothes. She was just freaking out. And so my other aunt and I, like, had to take her clothes off and put a different outfit on her. And the person that an hour ago was there and part of this oneness of all of us.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

This was like. If you ever psych a dead animal, you go, like, a butcher shop.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

You're like, the chicken might be part of the oneness, but it's also just. You know, you go to a Chinese restaurant, you see ducks hanging that just look like ducks. Yeah.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You're like, whatever's an object.

[Jake Johnson]

Whatever the thing was, is, it's gone. And so this idea of oneness, possibly. And when I was raised, I was named after an uncle who passed away, and the idea was my soul, my body would be a place for his soul to be. And we all believed it was all really nice and good. And my mother believes she's connected. It wasn't in my family. It was more just like, you know, he died at 26 on a motorcycle. Happened too fast. Everybody loved Mark, so I was Mark. It didn't feel like a burden. Felt more like fun. When my uncles are drunk, they get to go, like, we're lobbying Mark. And I was like, okay, you love Jake, too. And they did. So I'm like, win, win, double love.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

But then it started feeling like the point of. Like, I was like, well, this is fun to believe in. This makes my mom feel good. This makes me feel good. But is this shit real? When you're on that actual deathbed and the darkness is coming, I guarantee it feels better to say, I've spent my time. I've gone so deep. Deep. I believe in a oneness to all of this. That's a wonderful way to choose to live your life. But it is a choice, because maybe. Or maybe or just blackness. And I'll give an example, because my dad And I used to have these big talks like this. So my dad was. He left when I was 2 or was kicked out at 2. Don't really know the backstory, but he was a. He was kicked out most likely, but. Or he left.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I was pretending like I was there.

[Jake Johnson]

Trust me. Me. Yeah, he was, yes. But he was a drugs and alcohol guy. And then when I was 17, he sobered up. And then when I was about 25, we became friends. And I lived with them when my career bottomed out in my late 20s. And we would just have these. We were both insomniacs, so we would have these without mics and just get into it and let it rip. And any perspective, you know, we could try, try, try. And then he finally said one day, he's like, let's make a deal. And this is when I was 26, 27. He goes, he goes, when I die, let's do something together. I want to be cremated. You're going to have some of my ashes. And he goes, I want you to break into Wrigley Field and put my ashes on the right side of home plate, scatter him in and take in.

[Pete Holmes]

The batter's box, like if he.

[Jake Johnson]

Like, as if he was a right handed hitter. My dad loved the Cubs. He was the biggest Chicago sports fan I've ever met in my life. Times 100. They really meant a lot to him. We bonded all over it. That was how we kind of connected. And he goes, you do that, then take a second. If there's any way that I could reach out to you, say, I love you, feel you. I will do it then. And he goes, if I die, I'll wait. If they'll say, hey, croco, here's heaven, I'll fucking wait. He goes, we'll make this happen. My dad, because he didn't raise me, always felt bad, would run through a burning building to not go against his word. Years go by, I get a new girl. I meet the owner of the Cubs. Things are happening. I go to my dad when he was alive. I'm like, I think I'm gonna be able to pull this off, buddy. He's like, jesus Christ. Jesus Christ. This is unbelievable. I can't believe. This is big. Big. I go, you know, I'm singing the 7th Inn Stretch. Bring him up there with me. He's like, I can't believe we're in Wrigley. I go, I think when you saying.

[Pete Holmes]

Take me out to the bottom, ball game, yes.

[Jake Johnson]

He's like, I can't believe it's going to happen. I was like, it's going to happen. He passes away. My brother and I have the ashes at his house. We know it's going to happen. I reach out to the Cubs PR or they reach out to me about something, about throwing out a first pitch. And I say, absolutely. I take the ashes. They're in my pocket. My dad's nickname was Croco. Croco. His where he lived was 425. That was his address. And he used to call his house the 425 Club. So I wore in the jersey. You put your last night. Put Croco in.425 was all to him. I get out there, I put a little bit of him on the pitcher's mound.

[Pete Holmes]

Wait, they're calling you out for the pitch?

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And you're like, one second, you open.

[Jake Johnson]

A file, I do one of these. It's in my pocket. I go like this. Go in the mound. Drop it like this.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, you did it on the mound.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes. And then you're supposed to do it on the battery. Story hasn't finished.

[Pete Holmes]

All right. I'm glad because you blew it.

[Jake Johnson]

I throw the first bit. I go shake hands with the catcher guy, whatever, take the photo. I then walk on my own to home plate, take some in my hand, put it on the right side, smear it in as if I'm a big fan. Just touching the dirt. I go like this. I stop. I look up, I take a whole beat. Nothing. Then during the national anthem, there's two guys who do it playing the saxophone. My dad's apartment in the 80s was very 80s. Single guy who probably does too much cocaine. A lot of the artwork was like, ladies playing the saxophone with no clothes on and silhouettes behind, like, you know, like shades or on a mirror. Yes. It was just trash. My brother and I start dying, laughing, tears streaming down our faces, and we were like, this could be. And then I went, this is the spirit spin. I didn't feel him. The spin is he came through the saxophones.

[Producer/Moderator]

Right.

[Jake Johnson]

The oneness of everything, to me is the spin. The story feels better.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

That he did tell me he loved me.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

The reality is, when I was on the field and I waited, the thing that we said he couldn't do because he wasn't there. Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And to me, that he wasn't there, he sounded like Albert Brooks.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. Because he wasn't there. Cause he's dead. Cause he's dead.

[Pete Holmes]

All right?

[Jake Johnson]

Because when it's over, Pete, it's over. We're sexy, but you're here now, kiddo. Good to see you. Good luck with the radio show. You're a wonderful man. But now it's time for me to go, where's my car? But to me, that was. That, to me, is my spirit. Like, that meant a lot to me.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Even that he wasn't there.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Because I'm like, yes.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Great. It doesn't make me any less happy about living or optimistic or. But I'm like, right. And I'll tell my kids, I'll create something fun for them to do it, and I'll say, I'll try my hardest. And if you want to spin it, spin it.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

But if you feel it, it's real. That's great too. Right. But for me, I didn't feel it. And the saxophone. My brother kept going, like, because I was balling. And he's like, this is it, man. This is dad. And in the moment, to, like, make the moment better, I went like, absolutely. But I'm like, no, no. We knew what we said. It wasn't. You know what I'll do? I'll have two guys played a saxophone. I'd be like, too far of a spin.

[Pete Holmes]

My guy, if he had, that would be pretty cool.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. If he did, it would be.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't really put too much stock in. In that. Like, even if you were like. And the saxophone's name was Crackle.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

I. I don't really care.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

There was a time in my life that I loved miracle stories or things like that. And I'm not bullshitting you. I'll just say and see how you respond. I'm more interested in how you respond. The awareness that your dad was.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Is looking out your eyes right now.

[Jake Johnson]

The awareness that my dad was. Is looking at. What does that mean?

[Pete Holmes]

There's only one awareness.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You and your dad are as connected as anything.

[Jake Johnson]

Agreed.

[Pete Holmes]

Meaning your dad was a wave. He took the apparent image of croco.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

The wave crest sizzled onto the beach, got pulled back. He's fucking gone.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

But the water, total water is still there.

[Jake Johnson]

Agreed.

[Pete Holmes]

So when I tell my daughter.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

There's nowhere you can go that I'm not with you totally agree that. A hundred percent. Literally. And I will not be telling her when I die. Where would I want my ashes? I don't know.

[Jake Johnson]

It's a comedy star.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm just kidding.

[Jake Johnson]

No, no, no, no, no, no. Don't curse me.

[Pete Holmes]

Don't curse me.

[Jake Johnson]

Cut him saying, no. It's a scary place. It's a scary place. Just say Comedy Store. And cut there. And we got him. Now that's what we're burying him. Maybe Largo, but I, I, I. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It'S not to discredit your. I love the spare room. But your dad, when Ramana Maharshi, this great Indian saint, died, he had cancer or something, and his followers were like, don't die. Like, heal yourself. You're like this miraculous guy. And he goes, where could I go?

[Jake Johnson]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

It's all the biggest truths. Sounds so stupid. But there's no time, there's no space, and there's no separation. It's just this. And even that is saying too much. So your dad, we can honor that he's gone and be like, where could he go?

[Jake Johnson]

Right?

[Pete Holmes]

Where is this nothing that we're talking about?

[Jake Johnson]

Yes. But here's the other side. He's also gone. Yeah. I would say he.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, so the Zen. The. I believe it's Chinese Zen. They say death is like a vase.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And the air in the vase. And then you break the vase. And the air that was in the vase goes into the air.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's gone.

[Jake Johnson]

The.

[Pete Holmes]

The vase. Vase.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes. The vase is so much nicer.

[Pete Holmes]

And you said ant, which I appreciate. I also said, say, and the. The vase is gone.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's another paradox.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Your dad's gone.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And he was never here. Here.

[Jake Johnson]

I'd.

[Pete Holmes]

I'll go even a little harsher, because.

[Jake Johnson]

You love the harsh.

[Pete Holmes]

An illusion cannot die.

[Jake Johnson]

Right. But so then Disney. But then Disney is the happiest place on earth.

[Pete Holmes]

I agree. I'm about to pitch them something, so I agree.

[Jake Johnson]

So. But that idea, like. But that is significant because it's two ways of looking.

[Pete Holmes]

What do you mean by that?

[Jake Johnson]

So he is not gone because we are all everything, and we are all here at the same time. And that is wonderful. And you'll never leave, and I'll never leave. And everyone who's ever been here has ever been here. And we're all part of the same thing. Well, the other thing is my dad and I, during football games, would text and FaceTime and talk the whole time and laugh our asses off. Well, that's gone. So I could say, why feel him? He's here and he's still here. Sure. But he's also not in that.

[Pete Holmes]

But also I think it's both ends. I'm so with you.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, no, I'm sorry.

[Pete Holmes]

Keep going.

[Jake Johnson]

But I'm okay with the thing of. He's gone because he died. And when he was here, it was great.

[Pete Holmes]

Dude, we've Only been having one conversation. It's still close.

[Jake Johnson]

It's the same stuff. He's gone. Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And John Mayer is not Jerry Garcia.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes. But this is great too.

[Pete Holmes]

But it's also great.

[Jake Johnson]

So a buddy of mine said about his dad had died, my buddy Clay Allen. And when my dad died, I was really sad and broken up. And he goes, here's what's hard. You and your dad, your relationship was a book and the chapters were being written. And he goes, there's no more new chapters being written. That book is done. And he goes, but the relationship isn't over. It's just now one sided. And I didn't get it at the time. I went like, yeah, but I want the chapters to keep going.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

But what's ended up happening is things will happen that I'll know he'll love. Like the podcast. He would love how much I'm turning this into a business. He would love how the numbers you're.

[Pete Holmes]

Out there with the Cadillacs.

[Jake Johnson]

But he would love it. Yeah, no, and he would go like. Because what I love about it is the business of it is I love the direct to consumer. I love the idea of fuck. If this audience continues to grow at the pace it's growing, I might do an indie movie and try to release it direct to an audience from a website and cut everybody else out out and go, if there's enough, let's do a poll. How much do you think this money this movie should be rented for? I think you could do entire shows direct to audience.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And I'm like, but before you used to have to wait for them to tell you how it was doing.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

So they would break down their reports and you would go like, how we doing? And they would go like, we'll schedule the call in nine days.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And I'd go, well, I made the thing. I would like to know exactly how it's going. This is a direct thing. So the actual piece of art. My dad didn't care about the thought behind the business. So I will do moves that I will think, oh, he would fucking love this story. And it feels good.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

But I don't get to tell him. So it's a new way of telling it. It's still sweet. But it would have been so good if he were allowed to hear this. He would love it. Then I could hear about the fucking dealership. We could have two hours and he would go like this was so fun. And I'd go, I agree. And now go, but I gotta hang up cuz I'M in the driveway now. Bye. And you go. Bye. Call me later. Later. Bye. We'd hang up and I'm like, it was the best. That's gone.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

And to say it is, but it isn't because we're. One thing to me is finding positivity where it's a fucking huge net loss and it's a fucking kick in the dick.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And you go like, it sucks.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And maybe when one day I'll die, I'll see that fucker. We'll go like the John prime sign. When John Prince. And when I die, I'm gonna get to heaven, start a rock and roll band, smoke a cigarette that's three miles long, have a vodka and seven up. See all my. I'm like. Wonderful image.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

But the reality is that John Prine is gone now. And it's so sad because I'd love.

[Pete Holmes]

To hear more music.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And it is the same, but it's how you like to look at those sameness. And for me, even though I hate the feeling of it, I love going. Like, I don't love, but I like going. I just miss him. And he's not here. Yep. And if he was, it took me a while to finally delete his contact in my phone. Because he was a top five best friend.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

To go like. Well, I don't get to call him. Right. He's the only. Who wants to hear about this.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Everybody else goes. Yeah. Another business thing.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And they're like, boring. And I'm like, yeah, I hear you. He loved it.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm so glad you brought a piece of your dad. I really. I was like, eating it.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I loved it.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

What a gift you gave me. Thank you. And all of us. I hope I'm with you. I'm actually. This whole conversation is about paradox. Is about both. And the whole thing. We've been talking about both.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And I just want for fun. My optimism is actually incredibly bleak. In fact, when I'm afraid I'm gonna die.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Same on a turbulent airplane. I say, an illusion cannot die. So what I'm comforting myself with is I never existed. Meaning, Pete, is an apparent. A momentary abstraction of the oneness that kind of. To experience itself and play with itself. We're playing a game. You be you, I'll be me. We're vibing. I love this. This is so fun.

[Jake Johnson]

Really? Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

So this kind of like the inf. The infinite can't know the finite.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

So it creates the finite and then it places itself in the finite as A character so it can experience it. Because oneness can't experience twoness. So it creates this whole thing. But it's not real.

[Jake Johnson]

But it was all but a dream.

[Pete Holmes]

It was a dream. This is God's dream. And you and I are thoughts in God's mind. So it's good news, bad news.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I totally get it.

[Pete Holmes]

Jake, you're not real. That's great.

[Jake Johnson]

And it sucks because you're not real. That's right.

[Pete Holmes]

And Jake's missing. His dad is real. A dream has relative reality.

[Jake Johnson]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

A hallucination has relative reality. You can be tripping balls and say, there's no giant trying to eat me, but relatively there is. So it's all both. And. And anyone who's trying to tell you it's not. It's just this and it's not that. There's so much mourning. A lot of my spiritual practices is coming to terms with my fear and my anger and my despair. It's not just going like, I'm just the air in the vase. I'm like, oh, no. But you have to get really honest and fierce. It is like going into a cave with a torch. I forget which mystic said it, but he's like, there's like Jesus or whoever you got leads you up the mountain. And then they go, that's the peak. And when you go up, he doesn't come with you. And you're not there and Jesus isn't there and God isn't there. But there's something. But you can't even talk about it. But it's a heartbreak. They say enlightenment is the ego's final disappointment.

[Jake Johnson]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Good news, bad news. But an illusion cannot die is only. I mean, I flatter myself thinking that that's comforting. Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

But it is to you. Because that's how you're choosing to do this game.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right.

[Jake Johnson]

And I'm saying I'm a wave and.

[Pete Holmes]

I'll just go back in the ocean.

[Jake Johnson]

But that makes you feel better.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right.

[Jake Johnson]

And so for me, you have to own both, but you also. You have to own what works for you. What works for me is I don't think we're that different than a chimp. And so I don't want a chimp being, like, in a tribe, being like this other chimp is. It really taught me a lot. That's my healer. That's my. This. This person has led me down this train of thought. These other chimps really get it, but that chimps don't get it. That group over there. I'm like, yeah, yeah, we all are gonna come. We're on this rock. This is what it is. This is pretty great.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And then it's pretty terrible. And you're right. Like a dandelion. It could go fast. And life can turn like this. You get one call from a doctor and you're like, man, this dream turned into a nightmare.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Jake Johnson]

But it is all that same thing, and it ends really quick.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And so for me, it's not a dream. It is. Is fiercely real. And if I'm on a plane and I have that moment where it goes like this, I think, like, my kids are still too young.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Like, it's. I'm not like.

[Pete Holmes]

But it's both. I have that, too.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't want. It's called spiritual bypass.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

What we're talking about is your dad dies and you go, but he's just the air in the vase.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

I would say, Jake, you're spiritual bypassing.

[Jake Johnson]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

You're not feeling it. And Val, my wife. I know I've said that a million times, but Val is the one that always just goes, put your hand on your chest. Where is that grief?

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Can you let it get bigger?

[Jake Johnson]

Feel it go towards. Yes. And that is the. The. The exact core of what the movie's supposed to be about.

[Pete Holmes]

Don't talk. We've got to go.

[Jake Johnson]

Self reliance on Hulu January 12th. This is Hulu January. Here.

[Pete Holmes]

Here on Hulu.

[Jake Johnson]

And take Alpha Brain and Magic Mind.

[Pete Holmes]

And that's for you.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Modern Mammals. That's actually a great shampoo. We have similar hair.

[Jake Johnson]

You'll love it. Do you not wash your hair? I use. Yeah, you can't wash it, right? I can wash it. What do you mean? You do wash it.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Your hair doesn't look like if you wash it.

[Jake Johnson]

I don't give it too much thought. I just. I go to cvs, I get shampoo and I put it in and it.

[Pete Holmes]

Doesn'T look like.

[Jake Johnson]

It. Looks pretty good. Thanks. Could look way better.

[Pete Holmes]

Could look better.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Jk, I regret bringing an ad into this, but what were we saying?

[Jake Johnson]

The core of the movie is that. Yeah. And so in terms of just telling the story, it's feel things in your life so you can get over the girl. Because I don't want to make a comedy where it's about all this other stuff.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

So it's. I got dumped. I'm in a low spot, and I'm trying to do this. And everybody's basic saying, you have to Feel and what the point of that is. And the reason it took this big game to get there is you could die.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I know.

[Jake Johnson]

And it's got you. And then the holy. The whole arc of his character is not that he's gonna knock on the door and she's gonna answer it, and they're gonna be happy.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

She might say, you're a weirdo, and I don't know what's real or not, and you're not for me. And his stomach's gonna go like, oh.

[Pete Holmes]

She'S kind of weirdo. She lied.

[Jake Johnson]

Or she's gonna be in.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

But whatever it is, he's excited to knock on that door and feel what happens, because all there is is right now. It's really happening. And if you lose and you're that fighter, well, put ice on your wounds.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

But don't say I don't hurt. Or for me, the thing where it's like. Or. Yeah. How it happened. I won by doing it. And I'm as much as the winner. As the winner. Because we're all the same thing, and we're all. No, he's the winner. Why? Because he kicked my ass. Why? Because he was better at me than at this weird thing right now.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Or I. Because I got in my head. The bright lights hit me as I was walking up. I saw Shia LaBeouf and I got thrown, and I was thinking about.

[Pete Holmes]

And Lance Bass was in the front.

[Jake Johnson]

Row, and I was like. And then I had a bad show. And it's not a dream. It's reality. And why did it throw me? I don't know. But I spent the whole time think I did a one thing with me, Max and Lamorne, and Ben Affleck was on the stage in the watching was one. I was terrible.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And afterwards, I thought, like, that's a net loss. And they're like, oh, it's fine. I'm like, we weren't good the entire time. I just thought, like, there's Ben Affleck.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And I can pretend not to be a fan, but I'm a fan. He's. He changed my whole headspace. He affected.

[Pete Holmes]

You're the same age. Goodwill hunting was such a shift.

[Jake Johnson]

I agree.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm from Boston.

[Jake Johnson]

Oh, interesting.

[Pete Holmes]

So I saw Ben Affleck in Harvard Square after that movie came out.

[Jake Johnson]

Interesting.

[Pete Holmes]

I loved it so much. I worked at a movie theater. I. I cut scenes from the film from the trailer. I don't know.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

This is my version of.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. What did you do?

[Pete Holmes]

You did something similar like, it doesn't matter.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I had frames from the movie.

[Jake Johnson]

Amazing.

[Pete Holmes]

And I showed it to him in my wallet, and he. He initialed them.

[Jake Johnson]

No way.

[Pete Holmes]

He's so sweet.

[Jake Johnson]

What was the project that got you or the person that got you wanting to do this game?

[Pete Holmes]

Do this?

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, the whole thing. What was the thing that you were like, Oh, I love that. It's a great question.

[Pete Holmes]

I think one of the answers is Good Will Hunting. One of the answers is the book Sign Language, Jerry Seinfeld's book. Because it was clean and I was religious and I was like. And I didn't know you said, I could do that. I'll go darker. I can do this. And mother won't disapprove.

[Jake Johnson]

Right?

[Pete Holmes]

Like, real fucking Freudian stuff. But now my mom hates my comedy, and I couldn't be prouder. You know what I mean? What an achievement. What an artist. Imagine if I was still going on stage and being like, soap.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That I love. I love that my mom is like, petey, sweetie, why do you have to talk about this? Because I'm a grown man.

[Jake Johnson]

I'm a grown man. You look at it.

[Pete Holmes]

Or I just go, don't watch it.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, I actually. It's. It's.

[Pete Holmes]

It's a point of strife in my life. But, yeah, if you were watching my movie, I'd be so proud of my character. I know. Maybe that's weird.

[Jake Johnson]

It's nice.

[Pete Holmes]

But the Pete that was going to. It was a little Machiavellian. Machiavellian?

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Where I was re. Reading sign language, I was like, this is my way into the pirate life.

[Jake Johnson]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Wow. This could save me approval that I still need.

[Jake Johnson]

Interesting.

[Pete Holmes]

Because I can't do it without my parents. Think I'm okay.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Now I can.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

But it took sign language by Jerry.

[Jake Johnson]

That's really cool, man.

[Pete Holmes]

I was reading portions of it to her, and she was laughing. I was like, I got it. Yeah, we're in business.

[Jake Johnson]

We can win here.

[Pete Holmes]

And then I did that for, like, seven years, and then my wife left me. And then I got funny because I was like. That was my. This is. What are we talking about?

[Jake Johnson]

What is this?

[Pete Holmes]

This is ending. This is.

[Jake Johnson]

This is insane.

[Pete Holmes]

It's on fire. Yeah. So what am I doing this for this other person for?

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, totally.

[Pete Holmes]

Why am I letting this character loom so large?

[Jake Johnson]

I don't even like this.

[Pete Holmes]

Exactly. And it feels that. That's why, like, forgive me, this is one of my passionate talking points. But I'm like. I do feel honestly, and maybe you feel this way as a filmmaker? That I could do something. I sometimes joke about doing a comedy special called is this what you wanted?

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And I just do an hour of what I think people want.

[Jake Johnson]

Totally.

[Pete Holmes]

And I, I don't think I'm flattering myself. I've been doing Stand up for over 20 years. I think I could do an hour of material that would be broadly, widely accepted.

[Jake Johnson]

I think you should, so. But you think I should.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes, I can. It's death to me.

[Jake Johnson]

So I, so I.

[Pete Holmes]

That go. That's like being in church again.

[Jake Johnson]

Well, so mine's different. Different. So I've had a. I had a really big realization in this process of this movie and going back to the why. Why we're doing it all. And I fundamentally feel as if audiences have gotten forgotten. And I fundamentally feel like we have. Performers have made it all about us and our process and what we want and our journey.

[Pete Holmes]

You mean Han shot first.

[Jake Johnson]

What's that?

[Pete Holmes]

George Lucas recuts the Star wars movies because it's about him, and it's like, it's not.

[Jake Johnson]

Oh, interesting. It's for the fan. Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And Hanot first.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes. But I, I, I fully feel like we have all we've gotten so into in between our own years and this town and the celebration of this town and our awards and our credit and who's cool and what studio's cool and what critics like you. And if a critic likes you, you're cool. And if certain cool people like it and it's good, that means you're good. But if these people don't like it, that means you're bad. And if this person says you're funny, then you're funny. But if that person laughs, maybe you're not funny. And if that person goes, dude, you're a filmmaker. Great. Or if they go, yeah, I like that little thing, maybe it means something different. And I've been so wrapped up into this, and I realized in doing this, if we are anything, you go to New Orleans, you're walking down, you see like eight kids dancing for money. And you stop sometimes and you go like, jesus Christ, these fucking kids can go, yeah. And you're drunk, and you throw some money in, and they go, you're like, great. And you look and you're like, these guys are making real money. And then you walk down a little bit and there's somebody else who's not as great. Someone's playing the saxophone, and you look at their case and you go, like, not as much money. Me. And I'm like, We've forgotten that's what we are. I don't view us as teachers. I don't view us as guiding people to anything. I view us as we give people a break and we entertain. And I'm like. And I love thinking like that.

[Pete Holmes]

I love what you just said. I won't forget that.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I feel like every podcast there's like one or two things, and I'm like, I'll remember that in 10 years. And I think that was it. But I'm gonna counter by saying, here's when I. If I did the special, is this what you want?

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

I would be doing an impression of other people.

[Jake Johnson]

Oh, I gotcha. Oh, I thought you meant what? So here's the difference. I thought you meant doing. Always trying to do something. I thought you meant will blow them away. I thought you meant doing what you love, but you know they're gonna love it, too.

[Pete Holmes]

No, no, no, Captain.

[Jake Johnson]

Oh, you mean I cut precious bits. Never mind my favorites.

[Pete Holmes]

But I'm gonna tell you something wrong that I. No, no, no. I'm glad we circled back effect. But Conan, Name Drop, told me he was like, what he thinks of show business is a room with ten hundred thousand people playing instruments. Yeah. And some people are putting down their saxophone and picking up a keyboard. And then they. Now they're playing the Blue man Droop. Blue man group drums. And he's like, all I did was I banged my triangle.

[Jake Johnson]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And he's like, I just did that for 10 years. And then finally someone went, what is that? What is that noise? I've been hearing that for 10 years. That's more my approach. Meaning interesting. I think more fans or whatever. Meaning for its own sake, a broader appeal is coming for me. That's a goal of mine, but it will come from banging my.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, agreed.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm. I'm waiting for someone to go like, oh, this guy Pete's been great.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I mean?

[Jake Johnson]

But it's the same thing of the street performer, that dancer, the one you give them the money, it's because they're doing exactly what's working for them.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

But they're entertaining the. Out of you.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

So it's you. You see, when you see when someone's doing something that you're like, oh, that's purely you.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yep.

[Jake Johnson]

But I feel like what the. The big thing that I've forgotten about, or at least not thought about as actively as I am now is at home, I'm a relationship with my wife and my kids. That's My real life at work, I am in a relationship with the audience and they matter, as opposed to. I'm in a relationship with my creative self.

[Pete Holmes]

I hear you.

[Jake Johnson]

And I have to do what I want to do and what I've been dreaming to do. And if I do that, you will come.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And to go, well, they're here right now, and this group has supported me since New Girl has started, and I appreciate it. So rather than me just go, well, where I'm at here, there's a thought that I'm having of like, well, where are we at?

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Where is the thing that really works for me? That really works for you? And I'm like. And that feels like a really fun game in terms of, like, with the podcast.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. You have a direct link.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And you're like, oh, like, we were doing a lot of, like, sex stuff. That was really making me laugh. And we started feeling like people were going down and comments were like, it's a lot like, be like, I'm a mom. I'm literally doing dishes while my kids are sleeping. A lot of orgy talk.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And then we would like.

[Pete Holmes]

You took the note.

[Jake Johnson]

Sure.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

But then, look, they don't go away.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

But we're like, literally, we're talking to producer Kevin and we're like, maybe we'll do a little less like that. And he goes, yeah, I kind of agree. It's getting a lot. Then all of a sudden, you start feeling a change, and you go, oh, this thing is alive and we're doing it together. And I think that thing is alive with everything. Until it's not.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Like, now my movie's not alive. Now it belongs to the audience. But I'm like, oh, this idea. Why? I said at the beginning, like, I wish I could start it now. I've now seen it with enough people. I've heard enough stuff. I now know what I think it's about and what the majority of people think it's about.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

So I'm like, now I'm ready to start making it.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And I'm like, it's over.

[Pete Holmes]

I started laughing while you were talking. I love everything. I'm gonna play this clip. Do you mind?

[Jake Johnson]

No.

[Pete Holmes]

It's from New Girl. It's you. And it fucking killed me, dude. And I've never done this on the show. Val loves New Girl. It's not that I don't like New Girl, but she loves New Girl.

[Jake Johnson]

I appreciate that.

[Pete Holmes]

And she sent me this clip of you pretending to be stoned. And I just want to play it for you. My wife sends me a lot of videos. Leela.

[Jake Johnson]

Leela.

[Pete Holmes]

Ice skating. Okay, here it is, dude. I'm gonna preface this by saying she sent it to me because this is me when I'm stoned. When she does an impression of me when I'm stoned, I go like this.

[Producer/Moderator]

I go.

[Pete Holmes]

I go, ask me anything because I think I know everything. I'm so high. I go, ask me anything. I'm willing to go, I know anything. And you're kind of that way in this.

[Jake Johnson]

This.

[Pete Holmes]

Jake, I'll send you this clip so you can play it over the video.

[Jake Johnson]

You're not an expert. I am. Nobody knows we're stoned. We didn't go. Then they know. You're saying that if we don't go.

[Pete Holmes]

To the party, they're going to think that we're high.

[Jake Johnson]

Oh, the guy who's never done weed. It's not the proper term. With smoked weed. You don't do weed. That's intense. You said it. Listen to me. First order of business, we eat their food. Okay? Then you look at the pool. Oh, what a great pool. I wish. I wish I could die for rings. Because if you were stoned, you wouldn't die for a ring. I was just thinking of this impression. Who am I doing? Who am I doing? Alucino, maybe. So then you get home, eat some pizza. Trust me, I just thought of every single possibility.

[Pete Holmes]

It's over.

[Jake Johnson]

That is me.

[Pete Holmes]

You going, what am I doing? Who is this? So do you remember that?

[Jake Johnson]

No. That was just Damon and I improvising and cross coverage, goofing around.

[Pete Holmes]

That is so funny. Is that what you're like when you're stoned?

[Jake Johnson]

No, no, no. That. So Damon and I are old. We did a movie together, we became very close. So we know how to make the other. He's one of those people. When I was talking about Vince Vaughn. Damon Waynes Jr. Is one of the funniest people I've ever been around. One of my favorite humans on planet Earth. And when we would do scenes, we would cross cover it and we'd. Or be in a two shot.

[Pete Holmes]

That means two cameras at the same time.

[Jake Johnson]

And so everything that's happening is real. So it's live. So when they edit it, they can just put a whole take going back to like making someone's performance.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And the game's not happening.

[Jake Johnson]

No, the game that he and I would always play to make him break one of. Or he would try to make me. And we know how to do it so he would know, like, oh, who is it?

[Pete Holmes]

You're trying to make him laugh.

[Jake Johnson]

Just going to his sense of humor of like, this is. I know I can get Damon on this. And whatever I have to say, I will sell out for Damon. And going back to the audience bit my whole game. And it's. Why going back to the del Close. Why miss too. It was make your partner funny. Do the scene this and that. And so my whole thing is I want to make the scene partner laugh, and I want to make this real. And I've realized, man, I should be thinking about the audience too.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And I was like, I've missed that. I win on a day like that. If afterwards, when they called cut, Damon does, like, his big laugh and goes like, what the fuck was that? And we're cracking up.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And then I forgot about it because I felt like it's over. I wonder.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And I'm trying to do that recently of like, yes, I want the scene partner to laugh, but, like, imagine if all the energy was thinking about when somebody watches it at home alone.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And I was like, I don't. I know it seems like a goofy thing to keep saying. It's really significant in my head.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And I'm like, I think I've abandoned them for years. I get it. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You're catching me just at the right time. I'm thinking about that money in the New Orleans.

[Jake Johnson]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Guitar case.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes. Interesting.

[Pete Holmes]

It's so important.

[Jake Johnson]

It's so. But you've got to be they. You've got to be doing what you do.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Because you see the people who fake it. You'll be like, you're really talented. But, like, I'm not putting money in your guitar playing.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

I'm not into you.

[Pete Holmes]

I always say it's like a bad date when someone's doing an impression of what they think.

[Jake Johnson]

A date. Yes, Totally. Right. That's right.

[Pete Holmes]

But the good date is. Is like.

[Jake Johnson]

It's just magic. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like. And you're being real.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Not to be weird. It's kind of like this.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm not trying.

[Jake Johnson]

Same 100.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's like my dinner with Andre. Like, why is that movie so captivating? Because you remember what, like, two people.

[Jake Johnson]

I'm Wallace and you're Andre. If we're doing the comp.

[Producer/Moderator]

I'm Andre.

[Jake Johnson]

I'm Wal. Andre the Giant. Inconceivable. This was incredible.

[Pete Holmes]

Wait, he was in a movie with Andre the Giant?

[Jake Johnson]

Yes, of course. He was.

[Pete Holmes]

And then he was in.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You think at any point, Real talk.

[Jake Johnson]

On set, they said, it's my dinner with Andre the Giant. And I bet Billy Crystal did and everybody else did. And Wallace. Sean, who's pretty serious, was probably like, yes, that was a different project that I did. But this is this own project.

[Pete Holmes]

Humorless. Yes, that was a different film.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes. Well, that was a serious film. And this is you guys clowning around with prosthetics, and me and Andre don't have prosthetics.

[Pete Holmes]

My impression. That is so funny.

[Jake Johnson]

Are you okay?

[Pete Holmes]

My impression of Andre the Giant is him seeing some fans notice him, and he goes, do you guys want to say bonjour?

[Jake Johnson]

Do you guys want to say bonjour? Pretty good. It's okay. Yeah. But it's fun to do. I just saw a thing on Instagram about that he once drank 130 beers at one sitting, and once on a plane. He went to the bathroom and it smelled so bad that people were, like, having, like, a crazy reaction to it, and they almost landed the plane early.

[Pete Holmes]

He passed with air traffic, but, like.

[Jake Johnson]

Enough so that they most. And look, look. Could this be another lie? Possibly. I believe it to be real.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

But he went to the bathroom, it smelled so bad that it became a thing on the planet. And most likely he had to go, like, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I really had to go. I should not have had the fish or the 50 fish. Because he would eat. I mean, he drank 131 beers in a sitting. That's. You could Google that.

[Pete Holmes]

I know another one where he was getting surgery for one of his various wrestling things. And they said, said, we're going to give you anesthesia. Can you imagine being the anesthesiologist? They said, how much can you drink before you start, before you get drunk? And I think he said something like.

[Jake Johnson]

30 bottles of wine, 30 beers.

[Pete Holmes]

I start to feel it.

[Jake Johnson]

Well, he would do a thing. You saw? I saw. Because I used to be obsessed with Andre the Giant.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Loved Andre.

[Pete Holmes]

I wish that doc was better.

[Jake Johnson]

I don't know. But it was still fun.

[Pete Holmes]

It was fun, but I wanted it to just be this.

[Jake Johnson]

This is so fun.

[Pete Holmes]

And it wasn't present somehow.

[Jake Johnson]

Photos of him with a bottle of wine where it just looks like this.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And the fact that he would drink, like, nine of them.

[Producer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

I'm like, I don't know why that makes me so happy.

[Pete Holmes]

That's him saying it to Hulk Hogan.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

When his back was hurt. But he gave him with the Crowd.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, this is great.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes. Really fun. Nice to meet you.

[Pete Holmes]

Nice to meet you. Self Reliance is on this platform. Hulu.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You should watch it. We watched it.

[Jake Johnson]

It.

[Pete Holmes]

We loved it.

[Jake Johnson]

Thank you.

[Pete Holmes]

And Katie watched it and she said she's still thinking about it, which is a great compliment.

[Jake Johnson]

That's fair.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, no, no, no. She loved it. And it stayed with it. Yeah, it stayed with me as well. The last question we ask everybody, we have all these. Yeah, but we've done enough, man. We've done it. I feel it. We're done. Can you tell me the time in your life you laughed the hardest or one of the times you laughed harder than you've ever laughed?

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, my.

[Pete Holmes]

Just quickly.

[Jake Johnson]

Well, I don't. I mean, it's a lot. It's. My brother and I, so. My brother and I have been doing bits since we were kids. We used to do characters around the house. We created. We, like, sketch was everything for us growing up, and he and I could commit to characters for months on end. So the. What's the hardest I've laughed? It's been some game that we've done that, like every voicemail we leave each other, every time we call. It's an ongoing bit. We've been talking about how we're currently writing a sketch show together that we started in the 80s. It's called the Greatest Sketch Show Ever Written. There's so many layers to the bit. We've never written a half page. We'll never start. Every project is. He's like, so maybe we should do a podcast. And we're like. I go, well, if we want to take over the entire fucking market. And he's like, I guess I'm ready for it. It's going to be 100 hours without any edits called Still Chatting. We'll never start any of them, but we'll get into ribs, where every once in a while it'll be just the right moment. And I'll be like, something will happen. And he'll go, I'll get the call and I'll go, hey. And he'll go, new idea for still chatting hour 32. And I'll just be like. And he'll talk for like. Because he's my brother, he won't be respectful and pause. So it'll be like six straight minutes. And then he'll finish and he'll be like, I gotta go. And it'll hang up. And I'm just like, oh, you just made this drive home. Amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

[Pete Holmes]

I mean, driveway I gotta go.

[Jake Johnson]

Okay. Okay. Bye. Bye. Bye.

[Pete Holmes]

Incredible.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. Great fun.

[Pete Holmes]

Thank you for doing this.

[Jake Johnson]

Thanks for having me.

[Pete Holmes]

That's it. You say, keep it crispy.

[Jake Johnson]

It's this.

[Pete Holmes]

It's just. It's how we have a sense of closure. The guest says, keep it crispy.

[Jake Johnson]

Keep it crispy.

[Pete Holmes]

Can you say it is your character on New Girl?

[Jake Johnson]

Keep it crispy.

[Pete Holmes]

Can you say it is your character in safety not guaranteed.

[Jake Johnson]

Keep it crispy.

[Pete Holmes]

Can you say it is your character and self reliance.

[Jake Johnson]

Keep it crispy.

[Pete Holmes]

Can you say it as yourself?

[Jake Johnson]

Keep it crispy.

[Pete Holmes]

This is me realizing you're not an actor.

[Jake Johnson]

Keep it crispy. Now here's how I'd say it on the podcast. Keep it crispy. Best keep it crispy ever. Thanks, man. Thanks, man.