Jesse David Fox Returns

Summary

Podcast Summary: You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes – Episode: Jesse David Fox Returns Release Date: April 23, 2025
Host: Pete Holmes
Guest: Jesse David Fox
Description: Exploring the depths of comedy, artificial intelligence, and the art of stand-up with author and comedy critic Jesse David Fox.

---

1. Introduction and Tour Update (00:00 – 03:56)

The episode kicks off with Pete Holmes and Jesse David Fox exchanging playful greetings, setting a relaxed and humorous tone. Jesse introduces himself and highlights his new book, Comedy Book, which delves into the history, evolution, and impact of comedy. He also mentions his podcast, Good One, and his role as a senior editor at Vulture.

Tour Announcement:
Pete shares significant news about his upcoming stand-up tour, initially named the "PG13 Tour." After reflecting on the content and his desire to perform authentically without self-imposed restrictions, he announces a rebranding to the "Pete Here Now Tour." This change emphasizes his commitment to delivering his best material without compromising on humor, even if it means crossing previously set boundaries.

"It's exactly like what I've done my whole career. It's as dirty as I am, and it's as honest as I am." – Pete Holmes [00:15]

2. The Evolution of Hosting and Guest Introductions (03:56 – 05:18)

Pete shares his experiences transitioning from guesting on other podcasts to hosting his own. He humorously reflects on the challenges of maintaining authenticity while adhering to structured formats.

Jesse appreciates Pete’s hosting style and reminisces about their previous interactions, emphasizing the ease and enjoyment of their conversations.

3. Reflections on Comedy Specials and Authenticity (05:18 – 12:05)

The conversation delves into the nature of comedy specials and the balance between authenticity and commercial appeal. Jesse discusses feedback from his peers, including Neil Brennan, Mike Birbiglia, and Andrew Santino, regarding his jokes and their interpretations.

Key Points:

• Authenticity in Comedy:
  Both hosts stress the importance of staying true to one's comedic voice rather than conforming to what's commercially viable or expected by audiences.

• Impact of Visual Elements:
  Jesse critiques the incorporation of visual elements in stand-up specials, arguing that it can detract from the immersive and imaginative aspects of comedy.

"I want to see how your brain works and how your brain paints the picture in my head." – Pete Holmes [12:01]

4. The Influence of AI on Comedy and Art (12:05 – 28:49)

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the role of artificial intelligence in the realm of comedy and art.

Topics Covered:

• AI and Creativity:
  The hosts explore how AI-generated content, such as jokes and performances, might impact the originality and authenticity of comedy.

• Future of Stand-Up:
  Concerns are raised about algorithms favoring certain comedic styles that perform well on social media, potentially limiting the diversity and richness of comedic expression.

• Digital Immortality and Consciousness:
  Jesse and Pete engage in a philosophical debate about the concept of uploading consciousness to computers, touching on themes of identity, authenticity, and the essence of being.

Notable Quotes:

"What dogs can't do, because no offense to dogs, is they can't be artists and go on stage and communicate their inner lives." – Jesse David Fox [51:05]

"Comedy is an art form because you're trying to get as close as possible to actually a sort of universal communication of ideas through enough testing through audiences." – Pete Holmes [39:53]

5. The Changing Landscape of Comedy and Audience Engagement (28:49 – 55:13)

Jesse and Pete discuss the evolving dynamics between comedians and their audiences in the age of digital media. They highlight how platforms like TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube influence comedic styles, often encouraging faster, louder, and more superficial content to maximize engagement and retention.

Key Insights:

• Algorithm-Driven Content:
  The pressure to produce content that aligns with algorithmic preferences can stifle creativity and push comedians toward formulaic jokes.

• Authentic vs. Commercial Success:
  Balancing personal artistic expression with the desire for widespread popularity and financial gain remains a central challenge for modern comedians.

Notable Quotes:

"We're offering cash and prizes. So fame and money. Literally money, if you can get into this category." – Jesse David Fox [28:52]

"Their goal is not entertainment. Their goal is retention. The goal is essentially to turn all entertainment into a slot machine." – Pete Holmes [54:45]

6. The Role of Performance and Persona in Comedy (55:13 – 76:48)

The conversation shifts to the significance of performance, persona, and the blurred lines between authenticity and curated identity in stand-up comedy.

Discussion Points:

• Performance vs. Authentic Self:
  Both hosts argue that every comedian performs a version of themselves, emphasizing that authenticity is itself a form of performance.

• Influence of Established Comedians:
  The impact of legendary comedians like Jerry Seinfeld and Bo Burnham on emerging talents is examined, discussing how their distinctive styles set expectations and influence upcoming performers.

• Mystique and Individuality:
  The concept of "mystique" is explored, debating whether cultivating an enigmatic persona is genuine or merely a strategic facade.

Notable Quotes:

"Comedy is an art form because you're trying to get as close as possible to actually a sort of universal communication of ideas through enough testing through audiences." – Pete Holmes [39:53]

"Authenticity is a fraud. The idea that you can be authentic." – Pete Holmes [35:35]

7. Philosophical Musings on Identity and Existence (76:48 – 90:07)

In the latter part of the episode, Jesse and Pete engage in deep philosophical discussions about consciousness, identity, and the human experience.

Key Topics:

• Nature of the Self:
  They debate the concept of the self as an illusion, exploring ideas from Vedanta and Eastern philosophies about the witnessing consciousness versus constructed persona.

• Impact of Technology on Humanity:
  The potential consequences of advanced AI and digital immortality on human identity and societal structures are critically analyzed.

• Existential Reflections:
  The hosts ponder the essence of being, the inevitability of death, and how modern advancements may alter our perceptions and experiences of life.

Notable Quotes:

"These are like your early memories where you ask, why are people talking like this? There's no way you connect to all that." – Jesse David Fox [63:15]

"The problem is, if an audience has a certain sort of expectation you're doing, then you have to decide, do I want to change that." – Pete Holmes [27:22]

8. Closing Remarks and Final Thoughts (90:00 – End)

As the episode nears its end, Jesse and Pete reflect on their extensive conversation, acknowledging the depth and breadth of topics covered. They express satisfaction with the length and substance of the episode, highlighting the unique blend of humor and philosophical inquiry that defines their interaction.

Final Highlights:

• Appreciation for Authentic Conversations:
  Both guests express gratitude for the open and genuine dialogue, underscoring the value of meaningful exchanges in understanding complex subjects.

• Encouragement to Explore Comedy Differently:
  Jesse emphasizes the importance of viewing comedy as an art form that transcends mere joke-telling, encouraging listeners to appreciate the nuanced ways comedians communicate and connect with audiences.

"You made it weird with Pete Holmes. You made it weird with Jesse Fox. It was a lot." – Jesse David Fox [89:24]

---

Conclusion

This episode of You Made It Weird serves as a profound exploration of comedy's role as an art form, the challenges posed by technological advancements like AI, and the intricate dance between authenticity and performance in stand-up. Through their candid and intellectually engaging conversation, Pete Holmes and Jesse David Fox offer listeners deep insights into the evolving landscape of comedy and its intersection with broader societal and philosophical themes.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• "It's exactly like what I've done my whole career. It's as dirty as I am, and it's as honest as I am." – Pete Holmes [00:15]
• "I want to see how your brain works and how your brain paints the picture in my head." – Pete Holmes [12:01]
• "What dogs can't do, because no offense to dogs, is they can't be artists and go on stage and communicate their inner lives." – Jesse David Fox [51:05]
• "We're offering cash and prizes. So fame and money. Literally money, if you can get into this category." – Jesse David Fox [28:52]
• "Authenticity is a fraud. The idea that you can be authentic." – Pete Holmes [35:35]
• "These are like your early memories where you ask, why are people talking like this? There's no way you connect to all that." – Jesse David Fox [63:15]
• "Comedy is an art form because you're trying to get as close as possible to actually a sort of universal communication of ideas through enough testing through audiences." – Pete Holmes [39:53]

---

Useful Links:

• Jesse David Fox's Book: Comedy Book
• Jesse's Podcast: Good One
• Pete Holmes' Tour: peteholmes.com

---

Note: This summary captures the essence of the conversation between Pete Holmes and Jesse David Fox, highlighting their discussions on comedy, AI, and existential philosophies. Listeners are encouraged to tune into the episode for a more immersive experience.

Transcript

[Pete Holmes]

You made it with. You made it with. You made it with. Oh, yeah, you made it with.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yes, you made it weird.

[Pete Holmes]

You made it weird with Pete Holmes.

[Jesse David Fox]

What's happening, weirdos? This is Jesse Fox. Fox said that, like, FM radio. Jesse David Fox, who is an incredible author, he just wrote. Well, it came out a little while ago, but I just read it, and it's incredible. It's called Comedy Book, and it's about the history, the evolution, and the impact of comedy. Obviously, we talk a lot about comedy in this episode. Every single time I've sat down with Jesse, it's been a delight, and this is no exception. He's also the host of the hit podcast Good One, where he interviews comedians about their process. And he is one of the senior editors at Vulture, where he works as the comedy critic. And he's awesome. I love talking with him. And this. This episode is one of those times that I love talking with him. Hey, different Pete jumping in here to talk about the tour. We have changed the name of the tour. It was the PG13 tour. We are now calling the tour the Pete Here Now Tour. Because I did one show under the banner PG13 in Austin. It was an awesome show. I loved it. But I got off stage and I was like, that wasn't. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not really PG13. I can't be standing in front of an audience and not just use everything I got. Every trick, every word, every face, every. Anything I can to delight you and make you laugh as hard as possible. And what happened is I wrote a bunch of jokes that were, you know, edging me out of the PG13 category, but they were my favorite jokes. And I was like, I can't. I'm not gonna cut these jokes to. To stay in these boundaries that I made up sort of almost as a lark because a lot of the material was cleaner, and now some of it isn't. And then I was like, well, I'll call it the Soft R Tour. And I was like, why am I even asking people to look at this show through that lens? Like, where is it on the spectrum of movie ratings? I don't like it. I don't. I'm putting it away. I'm saying, that's egg on my face. I apologize. It's not the PG13 Tour. It's exactly like what I've done my whole career. It's as dirty as I am, and it's as honest as I am. And I'm really happy to say it is by far my favorite hour. I'VE ever done. And I don't want to do stand up with one hand tied behind my back or blindfolded. It's hard enough. All I want to do is make you laugh. All I want to do is delight you. And I'm going to do everything in my power and in my skills, my skills, like Liam Neeson, everything in my specific set of skills to get you there and to get you laughing, because we need that so much. So no more PG13 tour. If you bought tickets to Toronto and. And you wanted it to be, you know, you and your nana, I apologize. I'm sure the you can call the theater, but I think you should still come. I think you'll still love it. Just know it as the Pete Here now tour. So we're going to update that tour art as soon as we have it, but the dates remain the same. May 10, I'll be in Toronto. Then Los Angeles, Nashville, Irvine, San Jose, Houston, Royal Oak, Michigan, Washington, D.C. boston. We just added a second show for Boston. And Cleveland, Ohio was just announced. All of those on peteholmes.com for now. The new Pete Here now. The Pete Here now tour. All right, back to past Pete throwing you to this show, to this episode. I hope you enjoy it. In the meantime, enjoy. Author of comedy book Jesse David Fox. Get into it. Oh, that is a first.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like, I've done enough that I was like, why is this harder than when I host? I was like, oh, well, when I host, I'm like, keeping track of what I. What want to say.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, of course. That makes perfect sense.

[Pete Holmes]

So then I was like, oh, well, if I also have notes.

[Jesse David Fox]

Well, can I tell you, that's exactly what happened with me is when I was guesting on other people's podcasts and this was over 10 years ago that I would take notes.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

And it's because I wanted to be hosting.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

So you already have a podcast.

[Pete Holmes]

I already have a podcast.

[Jesse David Fox]

You host the podcast. Good one. And this is Jesse Fox. I never do that. I never really introduced the guest.

[Pete Holmes]

That happened the last time I was on. You were like, let me do an intro. I don't know what I did to see what happens.

[Jesse David Fox]

You get intro'd.

[Pete Holmes]

That's very nice.

[Jesse David Fox]

And we're here to talk about. Well, it doesn't matter now. I've turned it into a proper.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm sorry.

[Jesse David Fox]

Comedy.

[Pete Holmes]

Let's act like I just walked in. What would you say?

[Jesse David Fox]

Oh, what's up, man? Oh, yeah, I used to live here. It's actually the same small Talk as I come in. Every single time it's become routine where.

[Pete Holmes]

The guest is already sitting down.

[Jesse David Fox]

No, I usually. Katie had to get you because I was. We double booked. We never done that in our lives. In over 10 years, I've never double booked. So Carol Leaford just left and you're coming in and you were. I'm gonna use the word mensch. I said, would you please kill an hour and a half? And you did it. And I know your time is valuable and I appreciate it.

[Pete Holmes]

That's very sweet to think my time's so valuable. It was very lovely to get to walk around Los Angeles.

[Jesse David Fox]

I love. And this neighborhood is one of the few walkable.

[Pete Holmes]

Exactly. I mean, I used to live a very long time ago around ish here. And I was like, oh, I can, like, see what it was like and see if I remember.

[Jesse David Fox]

And it's like, it hasn't changed that much, right?

[Pete Holmes]

No, I didn't know. I was like, what if they knocked down the housing complex? That. Or whatever. And they didn't.

[Jesse David Fox]

Oh, they didn't.

[Pete Holmes]

It's nice.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, no, it's pretty much the same. Like, the House of Pies is right over there. And when I was watching Pumping Iron, the Schwarzenegger documentary, and he talks about going to the House of Pies and stuff, and I'm like, holy shit, Schwarzenegger ate carbs. And it's so annoying. I'm going to do my impression. It's. Yeah, who cares? It's just going to be funny for me. But he goes like, you can eat anything you want. You just have to burn it off. And I'm like, fuck you, man. Who's eating a pie and then burning off 2000? He is.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

I eat a pie and I go to bed.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, well, that's. Well, if you burned it off, you can look exactly like him.

[Jesse David Fox]

I don't want to. I cut a line. This is your. Up your alley. I'm excited. I'm excited for this because you love comedy, I love your book. And I want to tell you, so many comedians have gone, have you read Jesse's book? And they go, it's really good. And I actually do want to tell you what they really say. They go, it's really good. Actually, I would get that. And that has nothing to do with you.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, 100%.

[Jesse David Fox]

It has to do with the undertaking of writing a book about comedy. And then comedians are like, it's actually really good. So a lot of people told me to check it out, not just you. So to start with Some inside baseball, because I know you love it. So my last special, I had a joke about Kumail being newly buff. And some of those jokes made it in the special. I go, I've hugged Kumail. I'm like, what, are you mad at me? It's about how it's not fun to hug a hard body and. But there was another joke in there where I go, I knew Kumail when he had a unibrow and smoke parliaments, which is true. Now he looks like a horse in a medium T shirt. And I thought that was a fun way if you don't know who he is, to be like, he's jacked.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

I give it to Neil Brennan and Mike Birbigli and Andrew Santino. Those are usually the three people I give my specials to. And Neil Brennan writes, I love that you called Camille a horse in a medium T shirt. And he says this. He goes, and it's racist, and no one will catch you being racist. He's messing with me.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

But he's saying, like, it's because he's brown.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, interesting.

[Jesse David Fox]

This is fun intel for me.

[Pete Holmes]

I had no idea.

[Jesse David Fox]

I told the joke a thousand times. I never was like, this is a fun brown joke. I was like, it's a horse joke.

[Pete Holmes]

Horses aren't only brown, Jesse.

[Jesse David Fox]

I spent so much time going, horses can be black, they can be white, they can be spotted, they can be zebras. It doesn't matter. They can be zebras. I think zebras are horses. Come on.

[Pete Holmes]

That's a good thing.

[Jesse David Fox]

Zebras are horses. I had it. That reminds me of another joke I had where I go, this is how the presidents go. Washington, Lincoln, Kennedy, Clinton. Like, none of those other guys count.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah. It's like when you think of presidents, your brain has four presidents.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. Yeah. And Hamilton is one of them. And he wasn't.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

You know what I mean? But he's on the 10. Come on, Eddie. Who's a woozle? Sorry. I'm talking so much. Coming off my leafer. Buzz leaf or buzz. Sorry. Ptsd. That seems up your alley. I ended up cutting the joke. It cost, let's say, $3,500 because the picture was locked.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, wow.

[Jesse David Fox]

We went in and trimmed out, me saying, kumail looks like a horse in a medium T shirt. And here we are. That's a ripe comedy area for you.

[Pete Holmes]

Did you ask Kumail?

[Jesse David Fox]

Believe it or not, I've been friends with Kumail a really long time. Especially when he first got buff. There was a real heir to his Celebrity that I even. I was intimidated by it, and I didn't want to bother him. And I didn't want to say, do you think this joke is racist? Like, I just went, forget it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Anyone can think I'm saying that I'm cutting it and I'm not going to bother him. Later, I saw Kumail and mentioned that I had cut out a joke, thinking he might say, what joke? He just went, thanks, man. So I was like, oh, I did the right thing.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Like, I thought it was gonna be like a green room. Like, really? What joke? And I'd tell him and he'd be like, that's fine. But he just went, thank you. Cause I think he was getting a lot of attention.

[Pete Holmes]

It was. I feel like Hasan was telling a joke about him as well. Like, it felt like a lot of people in comedy felt like they needed to reckon with the fact.

[Jesse David Fox]

Well, Hassan put up the picture.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Jesse David Fox]

Which I'm like, I mean, you want to get out another comedy film? I'm like, ken, audio, video. I'm a real. I'm a fucking Amish in terms of video comedy. I'm like, get that out of here. I'm not saying that to drag Hasan. I think what he does is amazing and millions of people love it. I'm just like, whenever there's, like, a show and the premise of the show is there's a screen and we're gonna draw what you're talking about. I'm like, no, thank you.

[Pete Holmes]

Writing that down. The thing I was gonna say.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But, well, two things. One, his last special, he doesn't do that anymore.

[Jesse David Fox]

Well, yeah, I didn't know that. But I said, well, yeah, I would imagine that that's, like, a fun thing to play. And then maybe not.

[Pete Holmes]

But I did think. I was recently. I spent a lot of time thinking, could a comedian play the sphere? Do you know the sphere in Las Vegas?

[Jesse David Fox]

Yes, that's probably gonna happen. And I say that with a sigh.

[Pete Holmes]

But, like, what. Who can do it? What is it? Right.

[Jesse David Fox]

Sebastian can do it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, we can sell it, but then do it. But, like, what happens on the screens?

[Jesse David Fox]

A big close up of Sebastian's face.

[Pete Holmes]

I literally thought you were gonna say a bowl of spaghetti. And I guess a lot of material.

[Jesse David Fox]

About, like, a fork going into Italian dinner, but it's Will Smith eating the spaghetti. AI. So it's, like, disturbing. I don't know, man. Like, where are you on that is? I haven't read the whole book. Does that come up?

[Pete Holmes]

AI?

[Jesse David Fox]

No, not AI. I do have that on my notes. I'd love to talk to you about that, but my notes. But when it comes to supplemented standup in any way. Is that in there?

[Pete Holmes]

I think I'm trying to remember if it's in there. I get a little bit about when specials had documentary footage intermingled.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yes. Jenny Slade. Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And I didn't.

[Jesse David Fox]

I thought that was fantastic.

[Pete Holmes]

My issue with it. And I will say, like, oh, I.

[Jesse David Fox]

Can also talk about issues with it.

[Pete Holmes]

Sure, sure. I'm gonna tell you my issue.

[Jesse David Fox]

I think it was perfect for Jenny's. But keep going.

[Pete Holmes]

Um, and other specials did it. So if Jenny is watching, I'm not specifically. And I also. My. My colleague at Vulture, Catherine Van Arendog, specifically wrote a piece about this. But there is something about the need to prove that what you're saying on stage is true, that I find antithetical to the art quality of standup. I think the. The idea that if you look at a painting and be like, well, show me the reference image and let me know how close it is to the reference image, which is, I do think, an instinct some people have for painting, which I also don't like.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So I think, oh, wow, we are in. So much as I see comedy as an art form, I want to see how your brain works and how your brain paints the picture in my head. And not just being like, see, I really captured their voice.

[Jesse David Fox]

Okay, so have you listened to Valley Heat?

[Pete Holmes]

No.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's the best. You have to write that down. Valley Heat podcast. It's my absolute favorite podcast. Not only that, it's a comedy podcast and he's kind of improvising. It's. It's mostly one guy. There's some act outs, but I'm like, how do you make this into a show? And I'm like, it almost ruins it because the way it comes out, you have to imagine it so that maybe you know this. That's called a hot medium, meaning you're engaged with it. A book is a hot medium. Is television. It just shows it to you. So as soon as you just like animate it or act it out, the fun of him explaining what. That weird sound you just heard isn't fun anymore because you're seeing it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I mean, it's also, I mean, this is, I guess, fairly mid. But that is what is happening right now in terms of us being filmed while we're talking, where it transforms our conversation to what I think podcasts kind of felt a little bit more hot or active in so much as I'm in This conversation. They're talking. But I am actively thinking we should.

[Jesse David Fox]

Put in a green screen right there and just allow them.

[Pete Holmes]

Them to put themselves on it.

[Jesse David Fox]

I know exactly what you're.

[Pete Holmes]

Now we're. Now you watch it. You're. You're watching us have a conversation.

[Jesse David Fox]

Or I think I'm not. How could I know? I surmise that a lot of people have this open like it's the fourth tab and it's just. And it's still what I thought.

[Pete Holmes]

I recently met people who watch it.

[Jesse David Fox]

They just watch it.

[Pete Holmes]

They watch it. I think they like. I think it's two things happen. One, instead of it, a tab they put on their TV screen. They walk around and they check in. They check in. Or someone sense someone does a funny thing. I want to see what it looked like when they did the funny thing. So they go back.

[Jesse David Fox]

Well, you know what I mean? I feel like we've had this conversation before. Steve Martin's albums are so much better, in my opinion than the tape specials. And it's because you don't know what he did.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

And you hear the sound of like his banjo hitting what?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

And he fell. Where? And it's so funny. That's actually in his book where it's like, why would you record physical comedy? And then his records did so well that some A and R guy or whatever, a music guy was like, I need more physical comedy records. Like because it was so popular. But it is more fun. It's because it's a hot medium.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. And I wonder if there are just some people who. Whose brains can't do that. So they don't like it. Right. I think it's like, easy.

[Jesse David Fox]

There are some brains.

[Pete Holmes]

You were before you were a comedian listening to Steve Martin's record. You had the brain of a would be comedian.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So when there's a noise, your brain's like, well, what if it's like this?

[Jesse David Fox]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And I think there's probably certain people whose brains are not elastic in that way.

[Jesse David Fox]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Who are like, what happened? Where can I look up what happened in that moment? And they want like a textbook where.

[Jesse David Fox]

It'S like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you're the Wire that way too. Because one of the things I resonated with in the comedy book, a very hard to Google book, by the way.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that's why there's a subtitle.

[Jesse David Fox]

I know, but I'm not plugging that subtitle right now, am I? No, I'm just kidding. You have to write in comedy book. Jesse Fox Yeah. You can't just write Comedy Book. Because then Amazon's just like, well, I.

[Pete Holmes]

Have a Google for comedy book and it is almost never my book. It's just sort of like, let's say punk rock. Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

You know how there are punk bands that call themselves like Naked girls and stuff and it's so they can't be Google.

[Pete Holmes]

It was pretty quickly I was like, the book should be called Comedy Book. And for a little bit of time it's going to be called Comedy Book. A book about comedy.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And which I thought was funny in a sort of similar, like kind of deadpan.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Way. And then.

[Jesse David Fox]

Well, TJ had that record. The extended Play lp.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Or no, I'm sorry. Yeah. Ep. The extended play ep.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. I think it's whatever that sensibility of like a really dry just saying a thing is.

[Jesse David Fox]

And then the Concords.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah. And I think like people need to want to buy the book.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And if anything, it actually is. And this is a somewhat problem with comedy, which is if people don't get the joke, they are almost off put by title.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. They're upset.

[Pete Holmes]

They're like, are you making fun of me?

[Jesse David Fox]

No. You ever go to a rest? Absolutely. Jesse. And when you go to a rest, I always love talking to you, by the way, and welcome to the show. But you know when you go to a restaurant and they have something called like chicken and waffles and you're like, oh my God. And then you get it and it's like the chef's reimagining and it's like a little piece of a waffle and there's like a piece of chicken and you're like, fuck you. That's how people feel when they don't get a joke.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Because I think that they. That era of food where it's like the dishes in quotes or something like that, people had a really negative reaction to it, partly because they do not think similar to comedy. Like food can be art enough to have such a thing. But also like right at the same time there was a sort of counter reaction to that, which is like extremely simply defined food, which is like, here's a list of ingredients. I think for the most part we've gone back to that. But.

[Jesse David Fox]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. I do think when people want to be invited in, which is like, I think when it happens at a restaurant, they don't like being kept at arms.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's true. And a lot of people I remember, again, I'm trying to think of, not think of things. I'm Trying to stoke the fire in a way that you'll want to engage. I'm explaining to you what a host is.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm trying to think of questions that you would answer.

[Jesse David Fox]

He's actually, this is how I do it. These aren't questions you want you sure into wanting to interrupt me. But when I was at the Boston Comedy Club and Demetri Martin would come by, which was such a big deal to me, a lot of the guys that went up at the Boston were more. And I think Bobby Kelly is amazing. I think he's hilarious. I'm just saying that was more of the fair. And then here comes Dimitri, and he is a chef's reimagining of chicken and waffles. But if you are in the mood for a chef's reimagining of chicken waffles, which is something you can look at the climate, you're like, we got a lot of guys just giving you chicken and waffles. Then Dimitri comes in. It gets really, really exciting.

[Pete Holmes]

I feel like that literally happened to me because I was going to the comedy seller pretty young. Like, I was a teenager going to the comedy seller. And I remember it wasn't 21 up. I believe I had used a fake ID to go to the Comedy Cellar. This is. This is one of like, get a.

[Jesse David Fox]

Fake ID in New York.

[Pete Holmes]

To be fair, this was a very long time ago.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I can get them at the post office.

[Pete Holmes]

I have no idea.

[Jesse David Fox]

Totally legal.

[Pete Holmes]

If ID technology has gotten better or worse to make it easier or harder, but also all technology, I guess, has gotten better.

[Jesse David Fox]

Well, you can get your ID on your phone now. And I have to think that's easier to fake if they're not QR coding it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. If you can get on your phone, then yes. I feel like you. Then it must be very easy to fake because then. It's Photoshop.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's a Photoshop. I made a fake passport for my daughter for fun. This is a weird anecdote, but I just googled blank passport background. Plenty of options.

[Pete Holmes]

It like the big one you print. I think that was in.

[Jesse David Fox]

Oh, my God. Yeah, that. You put your head through it. Hilarious. But we made my daughter a fake passport just for fun. No federal crime here. It was my passport. We just put her picture on it because she wanted to play travel. And if that gets me in jail for being basically a bluey style dad. Come on. Get the fuck out of here.

[Pete Holmes]

Get the fuck.

[Jesse David Fox]

So you started going when you were. Oh.

[Pete Holmes]

So I went when I was a Teenager that's hosting. There you go. Now that's.

[Jesse David Fox]

Now that's really.

[Pete Holmes]

It's a hosting competition for. On your podcast.

[Jesse David Fox]

Well, you have to let me win. It's like a weird Japanese custom. He's gonna try to out host you. You have to let him win.

[Pete Holmes]

We both give each other gifts and then whoever gifts is better.

[Jesse David Fox]

I liked it.

[Pete Holmes]

It's a great yes hand. Oh. So yeah. And I think I don't remember how like say 17, 18, 19 ish. And because I watched tough crowd and I like those guys. I really liked Greg Giraldo. I remember being like, well where does that happen? And they would say the comedy seller. And this was like all at a lull in where the common seller was because it was like the. I just so distinctly remember that online you could print out a free mission.

[Jesse David Fox]

That's what I use.

[Pete Holmes]

Paper drinks and you're like free. The one. It's wild to think of the common needing people that badly. But also if you're ever. If you're watching this and young. This was like a very old looking website. The idea like truly, it was.

[Jesse David Fox]

It didn't have the lineups.

[Pete Holmes]

No.

[Jesse David Fox]

It didn't have anything.

[Pete Holmes]

No. It was truly just like here is a thing you can print out.

[Jesse David Fox]

When I started working again at the Boston which was right around the corner from the seller.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm sorry I didn't come to see you then.

[Jesse David Fox]

No, I wasn't there. I don't think you were 19. We're not that far off.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, how old were you when you started in New York?

[Jesse David Fox]

25. 25.

[Pete Holmes]

So yeah, maybe you're maybe like five years older than us.

[Jesse David Fox]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

So it might have been.

[Jesse David Fox]

Exactly. So it was revolutionary. Ish. The comedy seller at that time had a chalkboard that they would write the names in the credits. And then my brilliant idea was with Dustin who booked it, I was like just. What I realize now is he might not have known who was gonna come by, but I would make these lists with the credits and their names and print it out on paper and bring it in and tack it up. That was our Internet. There's your Internet right there.

[Pete Holmes]

That is very similar. I feel like it's adjacent to your phone book joke.

[Jesse David Fox]

Oh yeah. We printed a portion of the Internet. That's literally what it was.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Well I remember when I wrote that.

[Pete Holmes]

So I was seeing tough crowd era comedians and you know like Chris Rock dropped in all that stuff. But like couple years in I already was. Even though I was not like a knew much about comedy As I know now, I was already kind of. Kind of get tired of the monotony of the sounds of comedians. How they would approach comedians. How as the. When you would hear like roasts to the audience. And it's kind of the same thing they would say every time. And I. And I was so. And this is nothing against Robert Kelly. I've had it nice interactions with him since. But I just remember specifically I had glasses and brown hair and he called me Harry Potter.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And there was like more offensive things that people said to me.

[Jesse David Fox]

This is what it is. It's a flooding of the market.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's not that. That's not fine. It's like if. If there were like. I remember there were two. I don't know how to describe it. Tough looking black kids in the front. And everybody. If they referenced hip hop, they would go. Which is. You're just not supposed to do it. It'd be like anybody here like hip hop?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

And I do it to them. But then like two comics later someone would be like hip hop. Who didn't even see the other guy. So in the same way there you are Harry Potter or Harry Potter in the front or whatever. It's not that it's not okay. It's that the market was flooded in the same way that there's too many places serving chicken and waffles. And now we need a reimagining.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Jesse David Fox]

The market dictates the need for Demetri Martin.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Jesse David Fox]

And I do also people like you that felt unrepresented.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. And also I think. And this is maybe the first I started thinking about this, which is too much comedy or too many comedians gear their act to people who see almost no comedy whatsoever.

[Jesse David Fox]

Wow, that's really interesting.

[Pete Holmes]

So.

[Jesse David Fox]

And that was very true. I think then.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. Because they're there to. To their. To their defense. There were people who were not seeing comedy that often.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But now to still do that.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Does feel.

[Jesse David Fox]

No, dude.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like the way the new thing I realized a genre of joke or way of opening specials which is explaining why they shot a special in the city. The like people ask me why did I shoot this special in Minneapolis?

[Jesse David Fox]

The opener.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. And I'm like, when you were thinking of coming out today and filming a special, you do not think probably 4,000 comedians have done that at this point now that there's so many specials on YouTube.

[Jesse David Fox]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And yes, most. There's a lot of people who will not know that. But there you have to know some people would. And don't you want to?

[Jesse David Fox]

It's another. It's another. Pendulum swing is now. One of the ways we appreciate comedy as fans is. Is its uniqueness. Like, we. I don't think that was the case when we were both there in.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Me in my 20s. You and your 19s. You know what I mean?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

That's why you could see I would be at the Cellar and two giant comedians, like, meaning physically giant comedians, both said, you guys are looking at me like, why is the bouncer on stage? They both said it because it was sort of like a. It almost felt like vaudeville or something. We were doing New York comedy.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Jesse David Fox]

And I love talking about Nate Bargazzi because we were. We felt very weird. And not because we were trying to be. We were just being unique to what we liked and stuff. But it was like a lot of why is the bouncer on stage? And then Nate would be like, how come I have no satellite reception in space? The satellites right there. And believe it or not, it would not do very well.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

I say that with you would not do well. Both of us.

[Pete Holmes]

It's why I sort of push back any attempt to sort of limit the available vocabulary for what comedians can operate in. And not in the sort of, like, speech way, which is a different way, but like, literally the amount of directions a comedian can go in. Because otherwise it will be inevitable that people will essentially steal jokes by accident. Because you're only giving so many accepted responses.

[Jesse David Fox]

Oh, you're right. Because. Sorry, just cheer your setup. People ask me why I film my thing in Minneapolis. Well, I mean, there's only five ways to go.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

So we're gonna.

[Pete Holmes]

And even if you, like, use different words, the thing the audience is taking is the same. It's the same joke. And so that's the concern. So then, by the way, that's.

[Jesse David Fox]

Or whatever. Comedy. There was a flood of. Or whatever. It's like, so if I took you back to my apartment and cut off your head and put it on my own head, like a mask or whatever.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Like a hyper specific followed by or whatever. There was a great or whatever flood of the late 2010s.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. So I do think one, I guess you hear. You know, like, it's possible people internalize especially speech patterns in way that even when they're trying very hard not to steal jokes.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's hard to, like, you hang out. Yeah. Like you. If you. 20 people hang out with each other and they all are comedians, you and your friends kind of talk the same.

[Jesse David Fox]

Regardless which is a big problem, I felt in New York, a lot of hotels going around now. There are a lot of Louis. There was a Louis Gap. People were like, I'll do that.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, I think a lot of people are like, well, Louie's not gonna be around.

[Jesse David Fox]

No, that's true.

[Pete Holmes]

That voice is kind of up for grabs.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's exact. Exactly the same as a bazaar in, like the 17th century. And some guy who sold chestnuts got arrested. Now we're gonna sell chestnuts. I mean, absolutely.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's just good business to be like, I can be like, fucking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I love. I'm not making fun of that delivery.

[Pete Holmes]

So it is like. So I would go. And then it made me kind of not as interested in comedy for a while. I do remember Dimitri was a sort of exception for when I was thinking about the comedians I like. And then sort of what got me back into the comedy was when I was brought to Comedy Death Ray when I lived in la, however many years ago, Drew Welborne, our mutual friend, took me there. And the first show I saw, the first comedian up, was Hannibal. And this was 2009.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I just was like, it like rewired my brain. I was like, I. Oh, there is new directions.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And that's sort of what I've been chasing. Sort of. Every time I look at a new comedian, I'm hoping for a new direction.

[Jesse David Fox]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And so the. I will say what I fear is happening, not unlike with the comedy seller, is because so many young comedians are coming up with the intent of posting online, the algorithms are, again, look at my face. Re making a smaller spectrum of available speech in the same available avenues of the type of comedian.

[Jesse David Fox]

Way more dangerously, though, they're offering cash and prizes.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

So fame and money. Literally money, if you can get into this category. Whereas, like, it's funny that Dimitri's style does fit social media very well. But like, you are going to see people who aren't Eddie Izzards, for example, doesn't.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

As well. Not as easily. So you're going to see way more people going fast and loud who might not be fast or loud. Yeah, that's really.

[Pete Holmes]

And they didn't allow themselves the opportunity to find what they're voice would hypothetically be. Because two years in one year in one day. And yeah, you're like, they're filming it. I'll post it. And then you're. You're on the hook for a style.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

A day into being a comedian.

[Jesse David Fox]

So when I, me and my friend Dan Shacky saw Dimitri Martin at the Boston Comedy Club the next day. I didn't do it, but him and another comedian friend of ours both went up and did one liners. And it wasn't embarrassing or weird. It was like, oh, I'll. What. What does a one liner for me sound like? And Dan kind of kept some of that style. Not. Not exactly one liners, but he. I saw how. I think Dimitri rubbed off on him. But if he had been posting before. Yeah, if I. If I was posting my early stuff. And I know people already know this, but it's like, they would have been like, oh, he's Brian. He's Brian Reagan. Yeah, he's Brian Reagan.

[Pete Holmes]

And then what if they're like, he's Brian Regan. We love that.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

We want more Brian Reagan. Reagan. And then you have 50,000 people who like that. You're Brian Regan.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And also like, well, I bet I can get 200,000 people if I get better at being Brian Regan.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And you. And then you don't go like, what if I instead spend a year not trying to be Brian Regan at all? Because why would you do that? Yeah, because it's easy when you're reached a level of success as a comedian to be like, I'm doing this for my art. And because you already have certain amount of security. But it's. I. I don't blame any individual comedian because they are this. They have the same motivation that motivated every comedian, which is like, I really want to get on stage. I really want people to listen. They want people to laugh at what I'm doing.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Also, like, I. Once I get my own audience right, then I could finally. Then I have so much more freedom to do whatever I want. The problem is, if an audience has a certain sort of expectation you're doing, then you have to decide, do I want.

[Jesse David Fox]

You're right.

[Pete Holmes]

It's the.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's Extra Season 2.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

You made a. You made a big saying. Is he laughing and laugh. And I'm not trying to drag anybody. That just goes for this whole conversation. But when I first saw Aziz, I loved. I thought he was incredible. Then I swear, like, two weeks later, I saw Aziz and he had clearly just been watching a lot of Mitch Hedberg and was looking for the recipe. I'm not saying he was stealing him. I'm not saying he was ripping him off. I'm saying as a really big comedy person, I was like, what? What is happening? He was changing the recipe. It's like, what if I turn up my. Hedberg influence a little bit more. And if he had posted that and it worked, you know, like, he'd be stuck in there.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. And I think it's. It's just partly because comedy is a unique thing, which is like, other. Like a painter would be like, oh, you. They have a. You. They start painting. Like, oh, there's something unique here. But then they're like, I need to get to another threshold of execution of whatever. And then they're like, well, let me mimic this type of painting partly just to get into my bones. Like, the idea of, like, there's comedy writers who, when they were kids, transcribed TV shows to partly just know what it felt like to type certain things.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And that's not on public. So then by the time you do see the paintings, it feels maybe more individual, original, because they have internalized it inside.

[Jesse David Fox]

Llewyn Davis. Have you seen.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Jesse David Fox]

Remember, when he goes, you never release your early stuff. Ruins the mystique. I'm always like, that idea is gone.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, mystique is such a silly.

[Jesse David Fox]

It is a silly. It's so silly. When the Bob Dylan movie came out. I think one of the reasons we're so drawn to it now is that's just when you're building your character with. You have 50 points, and you have five categories. No one puts any in Mystique, except. Let's play the Mystique one. Bo Burnham has Mystique. Demetri has some Mystique. Aziz has some Mystique. Almost everybody else is just like.

[Pete Holmes]

But the. The risk is, what if you're wrong? Right. What if you have Mystique? And it's like a. And you. So you go into these rooms and, like, this person has Mystique. You're like, there's a lot of. And you can dazzle people. And then, like, eventually people can see that you're not that interesting or you're not that talented.

[Jesse David Fox]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, it's easy to be. Like, Bo Burnham had a lot of Mystique and also the ability to do a lot of things right. It's. The hard thing is you don't know if you're gonna have Mystique.

[Jesse David Fox]

Well, that's what makes Mystique so interesting, is you're betting a future.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

That you don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

And even Bob Dylan was for sure, very nervous when he was starting and playing new songs. And there are also people that will tell you that he. I think it doesn't matter who it is. There's someone who famously was like, that's A character. He built a character and everybody did. And to a certain extent, Beau has to be a character or leaning into like Mystique. That's what you do with Mystique.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I mean, I do think. I mean, that is the. How do I. It's a. I'm trying to think of how to phrase this because there's a very heady idea of like the idea of performance. Right. So you. The versus the idea of authentic authenticity. Authenticity is not that old of a concept. It is like somewhat. Our conception of authenticity is like rooted in like baby boomer, post World War II, like self reflection. And this idea of like, I'm going to be authentic for my own personal ends. This sort of like, not like we are going to like live together in a sort of more communal end, but like, I want to make myself pure. And that is like a pursuit of authenticity. And as a result, sort of authenticity had been fetishized for decades. Even though there are people. I think, I argue, at least in the book, Bo Burnham is one of these people, though I've not fully spoke to him in a while since. But that would be like. Authenticity is a fraud. The idea that you can be authentic. Yeah. Like, every single person gets up and puts on a shirt. You can't not decide to put on a. Like the idea that we think of people who, like, wear wild clothes as a person who's like, made a different decision. The person who didn't decide to wear wild clothes. And it's a similar thing.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's a really, really funny, interesting point.

[Pete Holmes]

So with.

[Jesse David Fox]

They both put on clothes.

[Pete Holmes]

They both put on clothes. The person who decided to look like they didn't decide.

[Jesse David Fox]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Decide. That is a performance as well of what they want to communicate. And it's very transparent on stage.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Especially coming out of the Louis era of like, I'm just a guy up here. I'm wearing like, my T shirt doesn't fit. My jeans are bet. And it's like. You set a date to film this.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You.

[Jesse David Fox]

Someone asked you. There's budget for wardrobe.

[Pete Holmes]

If you're wearing makeup, there's budget for whatever new shirt or. And you.

[Jesse David Fox]

And that's actually a really funny point.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

I guarantee you he's wearing makeup. And this isn't.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. 100%.

[Jesse David Fox]

I'm gonna stop saying. I'm not dragging them. First of all, I'm too old to say dragging. Second of all, who fucking cares? I'm just saying as a guy, look, I'm wearing this cloud pattern sweatshirt. I'm gonna Be real with you, Jess. It has stains on it. I like that. I like what it says about me as a person. I like that it says that I don't care.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

I'm like, oh, you care about stuff like that? Interesting. It's another way to get status, sex, resources, belonging. It's all the same thing.

[Pete Holmes]

I mean, like, for example, I. Because this is video, I wore this clothes.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. This is perfect.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. But if this was not video, I still would have been dressed up to what I wanted to convey to you.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, that's right.

[Pete Holmes]

And I think some would argue that it's more honest to acknowledge that I dressed up for this.

[Jesse David Fox]

The only honesty is to admit the dishonesty.

[Pete Holmes]

And so the only honest in sort of comedy performance is to acknowledge you're performing either literally being, like, a thing that you'll often do, which it'll be like acknowledging. Like, have you heard this setup before? Your last specialty of the joke of, like, every comedian gets to have a joke about.

[Jesse David Fox]

This is mine.

[Pete Holmes]

This is my prosthetic. And that. That one. I remember when I first started seeing comedians do that. I remember when Hannibal did it for the first time and I saw it. I remember when you started doing it. It was so exciting to me, and I couldn't put into words then what it was.

[Jesse David Fox]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

But it's the same thing of, like. I mean, and then, like, John Kate really figured out to amplify it and Bo as well, which was like, it is me. It is actually more honest for me to start singing a song than to me to pretend I'm just talking up here.

[Jesse David Fox]

Well, that's also Steve Martin, too.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

He's like, hey, we're having fun now. Like, when does the show start? That's all. Yeah, Steve Martin. Which is really funny that it's considered. And I agree with you, 2004. That's like, when we started doing it. I also want to put this to you just selfishly, because it's in my life, but I'm also interested in what you have to say about it. So I. Again, I just taped.

[Pete Holmes]

Thank you for saying my outfit is perfect.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's great. It's great. It's perfect. Well done. Look, we could even click that one back and be like, the conglomerate of your experiences and your thoughts and your patterns of thinking and the ones that you favor over others. Basically, what we would call personality or an ego is absolute nonsense. And anybody that's had any sort of spiritual reckoning or even a mushroom trip knows that it's this, like, heavy suitcase. We Carry around and children can see it. It's one of my earliest memories is going, like, why are they talking like this?

[Pete Holmes]

Well, why are they talking? I do think we believe words like. Like, I do think there's these sort of, like, cliche of like a weed idea of like, how do I know the blue you see is the blue I see?

[Jesse David Fox]

I know. But all the most interesting things, but.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, truly, like, it's. It's. But also, like, how do I know when I say the word blue, even what you hear? The same thing when I say the word blue. The same thing, like, what the word funny is like. I do think we assume language. If you speak the same language, you're saying the same thing to each other. But really, it's just like, I'm as best as possible trying to articulate a sort of abstract thing to a person who also is receiving it and having it kind of filter back abstractly in their brain. But, like, we don't actually have the same understanding for anything.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's absolutely nonsense.

[Pete Holmes]

And that's why comedy's the interesting art form, because you're trying to get as close as possible to actually a sort of universal communication of ideas through enough testing through audiences.

[Jesse David Fox]

Because of the involuntary response.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

If laughter was something that you could. You can. But I mean, like, real laughter. That's what's so fun, is like. Well, I've said this before, but art is going. When I look at that barn, this is what I see. So you paint it. That's what I see. And like. Yeah, I agree. That's what that is. You did it over there. And comedy is great because, like, we're not going for tears or, like, silence. We're going for, like, an involuntary. I understood you. So. Has a real appeal to children that felt misunderstood.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. I also think it. The way I think of it is, like, you don't hear it as much anymore. But they're like, the comedians hold a mirror up to society.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And.

[Jesse David Fox]

And I won an award for largest mirror. It's a Tracy Morgan joke.

[Pete Holmes]

That's really funny.

[Jesse David Fox]

I want to hold a mirror up to society and win an award for largest mirror. I mean, that's. It came out well today. My Morgan was on today.

[Pete Holmes]

But I do think the way I see it is that, like, essentially the comedian has a observation or whatever, and it's essentially like they have a piece of steel, and then through audience interaction, it polishes.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, that's true.

[Pete Holmes]

And then it becomes a reflection of the audience because of the audience's response.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. You're doing it together.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

No, that is the hope. That's exactly right. This episode is brought to us by our friends at Ritual Multivitamins. It's the only multivitamin that I've ever taken in my life that I can absolutely tell the difference. I take my ritual. I feel ready to start my day. I take their essential for men and I take their symbiotic plus, which is a pre post and probiotic all in one. They're minty capsules. They're delayed release, which means they don't upset your stomach. So if you're fasting or taking them first thing in the morning, got that zinc in you. Sometimes zinc will upset your stomach, make you a yak, not ritual because it breaks down in your lower intestine, which is where these vitamins can actually be absorbed. So many people are like, I take a multivitamin, but I know I just pee it out. Ritual is different. Delayed release, minty essence. And everything in these things is traceable. So if you want to know where these nutrients are coming from, ritual is incredibly transparent and makes everything, everything, everything traceable. And, guys, we need this in our life more than ever. According to the cdc, fewer men than women meet the minimum daily intake recommendation for fruit and veggies. And men are more likely to overvalue exercise and undervalue nutrition. Ritual is here to help all of that. And I can say for me personally, as a mostly vegan, I would go and get my blood work done and my doctor would be like, you're deficient. Here, here, here, here. Point out all these gaps in my diet since starting ritual and I haven't missed a day in years. I don't have that problem. It has really helped fill those gaps and those gaps a lot of people have. Not just mostly vegans talking about omega 3 DHA to support healthy heart and brain. We're Talking about vitamin D3 to support normal muscle and immune function. All of these things get into you and get into you and make you feel fantastic. So essential for men is a quality multivitamin from a company you can actually trust. Get 25% off your first month for a limited [e-mail] weird. That's ritual.com weird. For 25% off your first first month, try it out. Ritual.com weird. We're also brought to us by our friends at Shakti Mats. I am a hard person to buy a gift for and I was given a Shakti mat as a gift and it's basically a bed of nails. You roll it out, comes with you get a pillow too that's covered in thousands of spiky pokies. Why would you take your shirt off and lie down on something like that? Well, because it's basically like a massage on command. Just like sauna, just like cold exposure, acupressure, getting these pokies on your back, getting that circulation boosting, releasing boosted, releasing tension, melting away stress. It is on demand relief from stress and tension. And it couldn't be easier. I love massage, maybe even more than the next person. But the problem is gotta make an appointment. Costs a ton of money. Then you're covered in oil, now you gotta shower. It's a whole to do. This thing is relaxation on demand. Whenever you need it, unfurl it. It's a fun thing to say. Unfurl it, lay on it. The first time I used my Shakti mat, of course at first it's pokey and invigorating, but then I almost fell asleep. In fact I did fall asleep the first time I used it. Now I almost fall asleep every single time I use it. It's like deep tissue work. I've tried other kinds of acupressure mats, but there's no comparison. Shakti is the sharpest on the market, which is what you want because those are the only ones that work. And it's handmade in India by people who are paired, paid fairly and with the highest integrity quality materials. I can vouch for that. Deeper sleep, stress relief, muscle relaxation, better circulation, mental clarity and just a general sense of well being whenever you need it. And it makes a great gift. Shakti mats are my secret weapon. For reliable serenity and relief. Go to Shakti matt S-H-A k t I m a t.com use promo code weird30 and you will get 30% off any Shakti mat at shakti mat.com use promo code weird 30 and tell them we sent you. And that actually takes me into what I was about to say. But it ties into everything we're talking about. I really, I couldn't agree with you more. That like saying every comedian has their prostate exam joke, this is mine to me is maybe the most important part of that joke. But I just. And this isn't. I love Neil Brennan to death. He's one of my closest friends. And like I said, I show my special to him and Birbigli and Santino and some other people. But those, those are like the first three. And Neil gave me notes. And I would say this if he was right here. He's like, anytime ladies and gentlemen, Neil Brennan. But he. Anytime I'm calling out that I'm doing stand up or interpreting it, he's like, cut it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

And he. He. But then you watch Neil. He is giving me notes to make my special more like a Neil special. Neil is very, like, surgical, and it's. And it's efficient and it's brilliant. But, like, I'll give you an example. I have a joke on my next special about people that make you take your shoes off before you come in the house. And it's this big rant about how you can't ward off death. Your policy is stupid. It's. It's me yelling about it. Of course, I can see both sides. But I'm just saying I yell about.

[Pete Holmes]

It because you want to keep your shoes on.

[Jesse David Fox]

I want to keep my shoes on because I get cold feet. I leave parties often because I'm like, I can't. It's like I'm a loft apartment. That's not in the joke. It's very hard to keep me warm. So if you're going to make me do what the Japanese do, give me slippers, like, that's ridiculous. Yeah, we're doing one part of the tradition, and I should have included that, to be honest. But, like, in Japan, they have slippers for their guests because it's cold. So anyway, we're just making people cold and leave sock prints on linoleum of their kitchens. So anyway, the joke ends where I go, here's my favorite part of that joke. I know by the sound of things, most of you are shoes off households. And I go, but you laughed anyway. They go, we need more of that subtlety. You put your opinion to one side and you vacationed in my perspective, and you were like, ha, ha, ha. Take him off.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

And it's the biggest laugh of the thing. And he's like, cut it. It's like, what are you doing? The joke's over. And I'm like, I'm doing what I consider to be comedy. That's, like, the only thing I can say, I think.

[Pete Holmes]

I mean, he's trying to.

[Jesse David Fox]

I think he's an older brother trying to get me to not be bullied on the playground.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. And he's worried about you being an individual. I think he. For a variety of reasons. I don't know if I'd say that if he's here because we're not friends.

[Jesse David Fox]

But I think you're in bounds, so I'll let you know if I don't think anything's.

[Pete Holmes]

I Think he has the instinct of a person of, like, if you do write the joke well enough, funny is funny. And every single person will know it's funny.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And you should have no part of the joke. That is not 100% overlap. Now, I think he is, because of what happened to his career, which is like making comedy. Then an extremely young age had a thing that was seemingly universally loved. Jerry Seinfeld, I think, is the same way, which is like, he believed, like, funny is funny. You have to make things that are exactly what every single person will laugh at.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Coincidentally then has the biggest show that has ever happened, the most possible. People laugh at his thing. So he's like, see, I'm just correct.

[Jesse David Fox]

So Neil is Chappelle show and Seinfeld is.

[Pete Holmes]

So then he's like, that is possible. But I do think that is a complete fallacy.

[Jesse David Fox]

It got reinforced, though, in both of them. Because the other person who has this perspective is Jerry Seinfeld.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

He would say, why. Why are you talking about the show? It's over.

[Pete Holmes]

Because.

[Jesse David Fox]

And I'm like, Because people like me love when comedians go, I know a show is happening. I know I have a perspective. I know you have a perspective, and I know you know that. I know that you have a perspective. And also, it's beautiful to see each other.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. You're giving the audience yourself, your commute. Like, it is it. It truly would be like if you did. I. I will often just compare things to painting and be like, you know, if you're doing a portrait of someone, and then like, in the back, like, if you look at the Mona Lisa, I guess in the background, there's all that stuff. It's like, well, why is that there? You should. That's not a. That's not part of Mona Lisa. It's like. But that's the part that makes it a reflection of how I see the world.

[Jesse David Fox]

You know what? I. I love that. What I would. The metaphor I would use is you're listening to the White Stripes and you can hear his hand. You know that sound it makes when it goes, like, it reaches up to the note? Why is that there? It's not the note. It's. Because that's what Jack White sounds like when he's playing a guitar. Why can you hear. I always go to Eminem. I don't have cool taste, but why can you hear Eminem? There's those inhales. Cut those out. I'm like, no, it's amazing that he's inhaling like that. And then you Know, rapping, like, I mean, especially now.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, they will be proven wrong. When AI can write Jerry Seinfeld's act.

[Jesse David Fox]

We'Re back to a. I mean, or Jason.

[Pete Holmes]

That idea of Jerry. Silence. I do think, like, I do think I saw more recently. And there are parts where it cheats a little bit, but, like, it's a thing that I, I, I, AI, AI, AI, AI. It. It's a thing that I think older comedians and a lot of people in general comedians, like, I, I think back to. So Gerard Carmichaels on wtf. It was. It's a very contentious episode because I.

[Jesse David Fox]

Think I listened to it.

[Pete Holmes]

It was around Ra and, like. And we don't need to go, why.

[Jesse David Fox]

Did I listen to it? Because he's kind of, like, full of himself or something.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. So Gerard's being Gerard and Mars being Mark.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't even have to take full of himself. You can just be like.

[Pete Holmes]

You're sort of like.

[Jesse David Fox]

Has hyper confidence.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Jesse David Fox]

And vision. Yes, yes. And. And Mark is like, what the fuck?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah. He's like. He thinks you're bullshit.

[Jesse David Fox]

And.

[Pete Holmes]

But there's a thing that he said in it that I think is instructive that Mark.

[Jesse David Fox]

Mark says this.

[Pete Holmes]

No, Gerard says it, which is essentially like, you know, Ruth angel has all those parts that are not laughter, but, like, things are happening. And he's essentially, I'm doing it, so comedy doesn't die. And I think his point is comedians think they're competing against other comedians to write the best jokes. But, like, we are. Comedians are no longer the only source, main source, primary source of getting laughs anymore. Hannah Gatsby said the same thing. Like, people go on their phones for entertainment or mirth. Broadly defined. And, like, they will laugh at things.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And comedians are competing against dog falling down. That's the, that's the competition for laughter. If the comedian job was only to produce laughter, then you're going to lose to all the dogs in the world. Right. There's more dogs than there are comedians. So as a result, they. Yeah. However, what dogs can't do, because no offense to dogs, is they can't be artists and go on stage and communicate.

[Jesse David Fox]

Their inner lives and do, like, long pauses and allow for attention and respond in real time to somebody giving you advice on your boyfriend or whatever it might be. I couldn't agree more. I often say, like, so Steven Wright did this podcast. Did you listen to it as a fan, A comedy fan? You would like it. I will listen to it in the intro. I always feel weird Saying that I.

[Pete Holmes]

Actually, because I was gonna be on it, I was like, I do not want to listen to it and then constantly be referencing other episodes.

[Jesse David Fox]

I'm the same way. You don't wanna. You want it to be an exciting like, oh, that voice, not. That's what I thought you were gonna go. I also heard what you said. Yeah. When Steven Wright did it, I said in the intro. And I've referenced it many times. I'm proud of it. I'm like, AI would not make this episode. And if you listen to it, it's what we're talking about. But it's also all these moments where he's like, the episode ends where he goes, can this be over? And I'm like, I was blown away. He ended the episode by saying, can this be over? AI just wouldn't do that. Or if they did, they wouldn't lay it perfectly at the right moment. When Steven Wright would say, can this be. It's just absolute perfection. And my friend edits podcasts and I ask him what he does. And a lot of AI programs do this. Cut out all the odds and the ums and the pauses. And I'm like, I'm like, all I want is the odds and the M's and the pauses. All I want is Mark's talking to Jarod and he's like, like, I want.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

And if you clean it up, then yes, AI can do it now.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Not will be able to do it. They can do that now.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. And it's. And not only. And it's happening from both ends, which is like. So AI, generative AI can generate a lot of these things that we think of as sort of like joker, joker, joke jokes, one liner jokes. AI in terms of algorithm AIs that it powers TikTok's algorithm and Instagram's algorithm and YouTube's algorithm. It's coming at us from the other end, which is trying to limit the things that they're showing us in terms of how. How many different types of things they're trying to show us. They're not trying to show us a wide spectrum of comedians.

[Jesse David Fox]

What you already liked, they want what.

[Pete Holmes]

You other already like. And kind of are training people to post the things that sort of work for them. So then it's just creating a box for consumption. Because their goal is not entertainment. Their goal is retention. The goal is essentially to turn all entertainment into a slot machine.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So essentially that you're like, I don't like it, but what if the next one's Good. That is the feeling, not contentment or comfort or whatever. And that's the concern too.

[Jesse David Fox]

They say the pleasure of porn is actually looking for the perfect thing to turn you on. That's the anxiety reduction. That's all you're thinking about. So it's the same.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Laughing, you're just like, what if. Because it did happen that one time you saw the funniest thing you've ever seen. Could be the next one. Could be the next one.

[Pete Holmes]

And then. So as a result, we are, you know, this is. This is when I want to bum people out. This is the sort of sentence I say, so get ready.

[Jesse David Fox]

I'm ready to be bummed.

[Pete Holmes]

So this is when people worry about dystopian AI. The. The dystopia of what AI will create. It's that they'll murder all of us, which is possible, but, like, probably not fully likely likely. But there is a different dystopia that is also much more likely. It's just much more boring. And it's essentially that AI will get to the point that people use it to write their emails, and then people then use AI to read that email and reply to it and. And reply and just recap what. What happened to them. So then, as a result, AI is living a mundane life and we're doing nothing.

[Jesse David Fox]

We're getting updates.

[Pete Holmes]

We're. We're reading recaps of our life, quote, unquote.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And that is the thing that essentially is happening with art, which essentially AI will create a feed for AI to consume and then tell you all the things that it did.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yes. And you've been removed. You've been removed. Banality of.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

So being alive.

[Pete Holmes]

So both truly like the self that is the artist is being removed and the self that is the art consumers being removed.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I've never really thought of fun.

[Pete Holmes]

It's just truly just like, I don't know what we do with the time.

[Jesse David Fox]

You know, I'm reminded this is such a Pete Holmes things to say. So the AI will be able to predict this. But it's like, I didn't come to learn from my teacher. I came to watch him tie his shoes. I'm sure you've heard that. Like the Zen master. And that is. That came to mind because it's like, it's. It's not. I thought about this in the traffic. In the traffic. I was in the traffic today on the 405. That's what I was trying to say in Traffic on the 405. And I really got started to get caught up in, like, I gotta get my daughter to ferry camp. I gotta just be done. I gotta get there. And then a million times a day, I have to remind myself like, no, this is your life. And we've really become. You know, Jay Leno had an old, old joke where it was like, the microwave came out and it's like, it can get your dinner hot in 90 seconds. That's the ad. He's like, who the hell is coming home? Like, I've been home for 90 seconds. Where the hell is dinner? And then there's another point I make when these types of things come up. It's like all of these things that save time. Like, I have a thing that flosses. Takes 12 seconds. What do you do with that extra 12 seconds? Like, at the end of the day, it is your master tying his shoes.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Being able to fully do anything. And I actually, this is my optimism because I. My belief system is that this whole thing is a benevolent booby trap on ourselves to play or dance or learn or whatever you want to say. So I think AI is coming in the same way that Postmates and Netflix and the Internet and everything before it is to show you that your happiness does not lie in the meeting of your needs. So when we get the Ray Bans that are the Apple Vision Pro, so it's comfortable and easy. And my prediction, I make this all the time. It's not going to be watching people making anything. That's going to be absurd. It's going to be tailored 100% to your interest. And I'll show you sex when you're feeling. If you start to lose interest. Sex. Oh, you've had too much sex. Civil War history. If you had too much that recipes, it'll dial you in perfectly and hooked up to you neurologically. And then we'll have all of our entertainment and our food and our stimulation and all of these needs met. And it'll. And it won't work because that actually doesn't work. It's White Lotus.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Sam Rockwell going, I had sex with everything. And then I wanted to be had sex with. And I wanted to pretend I was an Asian. You know that scene?

[Pete Holmes]

I. I have not caught up to it.

[Jesse David Fox]

I'm sorry. You're in for a treat.

[Pete Holmes]

I know the scene exists. I know two scenes exist that are on the horizon.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's not a spoiler. I couldn't spoil it for you.

[Pete Holmes]

It's fine. It truly. There's another scene that is more spoiled, that has been Spoiled to me.

[Jesse David Fox]

But like, what scene is that?

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, the incest, whatever it is.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, I knew. But anyway. But he then turns to Buddhism because he realizes that the only way off the hedonic treadmill is to get off the hedonic treadmill. And I would say to get curious about your nature, but I actually think I might accept. Accelerate that because you'll be able to live a lifetime of dissatisfaction in a month.

[Pete Holmes]

I read that is. It is interesting. There's a term for that. I think it's called something accelerates or whatever. It's the same thing. Like a comparable is people who are really left wing, who really want. Want Donald Trump to succeed because then people will realize the error of their ways or whatever.

[Jesse David Fox]

Oh, they want him to win.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, they wanted him to win because then once he wins, people really be like, oh, all of what we banked in was wrong. We could have actually. We should re.

[Jesse David Fox]

That's actually brilliant. I've been thinking a lot about that.

[Pete Holmes]

We should rise up, but we won't rise up until we have an instigator like a Donald Trump. This is sort of the argument for that.

[Jesse David Fox]

Well, if he. If Donald Trump had lost, then that that flame would still exist and you would want the next guy that's like that to win. But if he wins and then it doesn't work.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Jesse David Fox]

And people are getting fucked by tariffs or whatever it might be, or people's wives, their Trump supporters whose wives are deported and all this sort of stuff. And that's. The theory is like, good.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

We need to see that these things have consequences or whatever.

[Pete Holmes]

It just. It's been a long fever in both directions, both the Donald Trump part of the analogy and social media, Internet, whatever that you're. It is harder and harder for me to believe the fever will break because I am concerned that the people trying to instead fill that time with advertisement and things for us to buy and whatever are smarter than us. Pontificating about, like how actually it's. We'll find a new sort of spirituality and not smarter in the. Like. There's lots of different intelligences. They just have the intelligence that makes it really easy to sort of take over the world.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yes. I'm so with you. I'm. I'm making it.

[Pete Holmes]

But I hope you're right. I'm. I'm. I will now think about yours when I'm trying to go to sleep at night.

[Jesse David Fox]

No, I think we're saying very similar things. There's the. I always think of Homer and all the donuts in the world.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

The joke is Homer wants all the donuts in the world. But when it breaks you, when you realize that, like, take something like pornography, you can. You can see anything and pretty convincingly simulate that it's happening to you.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Once we're having sex with sex robots, I think we'll realize that sex was never about ejaculating. It might take you a while.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

But the thing about a sex robot is you can do it as many times as you want. I think that might speed up the fact that you go, oh, it was about the eye contact or it was about the cuddle afterwards, or it was about losing your erection and having someone forgive you. Or it was about whatever. It wasn't about orgasm.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

We're an orgasm culture.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes, I think that's right. Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Food orgasm, we want the sex orgasm. We want the entertainment orgasm. We want everything. And once you realize that sex actually was laughing that your foot got caught in the top shape, you'll come up. I got a lot tell me.

[Pete Holmes]

So one you've now twice actually. I don't know. Or on purpose alluded to famous David Foster wall. David Foster Wallace essays.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So one is. I can't remember the name of it, but it's about. You need to appreciate sitting in traffic because, like, it's.

[Jesse David Fox]

What is water?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah. And the other one is he has a long essay about porn. And. And he. I believe it goes to the AVN Awards or something. And he talks about once there's AI porn or that is when eventually we could.

[Jesse David Fox]

You'll have something meeting your needs that doesn't care about you.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

But so I. Those are both in there, so I'm not surprised.

[Pete Holmes]

1. What you're saying also dovetail how I think about the jokes and comedy. And there's an idea that is one of my least popular ideas, which is this. I call it post comedy. But it's essentially comedy that doesn't sort of only adhere to. That does not focus on laughter necessarily. And. But like. And. And, but does not mean there's no laughter. It just sort of is like the goal is not the sort of machine. Like, we do this and then you laugh. We do this and you laugh. It is essentially like in the space between the setup and the punch line or essentially the tension and release. You can do a lot of things and it's. Is it possible that with the greater length of time before the release, the impact of the joke could be greater? Either you laugh more or you get more out of it. You think about it more. It lasts with you longer.

[Jesse David Fox]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And people are like, no, comedy is jokes and laughing. What are you talking about?

[Jesse David Fox]

But I do think it can be like lovemaking. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It could be like truly. It's like the build up to it, which is like what will make it last? Is it? And it's not like that's the only way of doing it. But I just want to explain. Extend the option. The other thing, the thing that is the concern. Well, that's Norm McDonald about the infinite donuts thing is the thing that I thought about is I think you might even. I got this from you like 15 years ago, but maybe not. We'll see. Which is like the reason you appreciate chocolate cake is that you know that you will only have 100.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Before you die.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Or everything.

[Jesse David Fox]

Literally all death informs cake.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. Death informs all joy is the hypothetically. That is the potential. That it is limited. However, that is not how people want to think of that. They. They want to think I actually can have infinite cakes because I'm in control of my life.

[Jesse David Fox]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

So for us, for the fever to break, I do think the sort of even larger existential thing is that people have to accept that they die, which is very much.

[Jesse David Fox]

No, you're right.

[Pete Holmes]

The AI. The AI, Big brains, what they are like. It's not uncommon for people who are very interested AI to be. Also believe in the potential of immortality. Like the singularity. That weird guy who like the, you know, that guy who always has a shirt off who like does all these things to look younger.

[Jesse David Fox]

Bert Kreischer.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, the Bert. He's the Bert Kreischer of Silicon Valley. I don't know. I don't know. I actually intentionally never learned this person's name, but he essentially is like, he's. It's because I try not to learn that much about him. I don't know if it's true. Like, he consumes maybe blood of young people, but essentially just does a lot of things to age, to reverse the trend of aging. It's not Peter Attia, Peter Thiel Attia? No. I don't know. I don't know his name and hopefully I'll never know his name.

[Jesse David Fox]

It might be Peter Atia, but he.

[Pete Holmes]

Also is trying to essentially reverse the effects of aging so that we get to the point where we prevent death. Right. And so far they're still alive and I'm still alive. So I don't know who's winning this race, but I do think that's what they're. That's what they're after.

[Jesse David Fox]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

But I do think and, and I do. Then they're the people have funded the social media companies to and advertising. You know, it's like. Well actually you can have like infinite Big Macs. Like each Big Mac is special. But actually what's best about is that you have. Can get Big Macs right now and everything's on your fingertips. But like eventually people have to be like especially if you're eating all those Big Macs that like you will die. And you actually might appreciate it more. But I do think they've gotten very good at training us to consume. Sorry.

[Jesse David Fox]

The health nuts are telling the social. They're funding the social media companies to sell Big Macs. I lost you.

[Pete Holmes]

Sorry. Yeah, see now, now I feel too conspiratorial. So let me see if I can try to do this again. Essentially these are the, these, I wouldn't call them health nuts. They're sort of people who believe in the potential of immortality nuts. One guy is a health nut. One is. It's more about sort of digital immortality. But they, they think that they're at war with death. I think is how I put it. Yes. And I think the denial of death that they're doing which is very active. Like I imagine going to beat death by either eating all these vitamins or by uploading my brain to a computer. It's a similar mindset, but a sort of the converse mindset if you're following of. Of a person consuming as if there's no. As if there is all tomorrows essentially to live a life of consumption and not appreciation of the things that you're consuming but just to be in a pattern of consumption.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

They are similar perspectives on. There is. We don't need to consider an end.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yes, that's right. Okay, yeah, I understand, I understand. No, you're absolutely right. We did a monologue about smoking is the ultimate. You can't tell me what to do. But really what that means on a deeper level is like it's giving the middle finger to death and so is ice cream. And I notice my own motivations when I'm like should I get dessert? Let's consider. And one of them really feels like a fear based. It's not just that, but it's sort of in the mix and there's something distinctly, maybe even American about being like yes I will because I'm not gonna die. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. It's freaky deaky.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah. And I, I'm not like immune to. I Mean, like, I actively think it. Like before, if I have a flight, I'm like, well, if they have a flight the next day, I'm like, well, I should eat a good dinner because if I die on this plane.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Then I. My last thought would be like. And the last thing I ate was that.

[Jesse David Fox]

That's in my new special, I'm dying. And I go, I can't have my last meal be something.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

We're also recording ourselves that digital immortality, I have to say, hot take. The idea that you could upload the contents of your brain into a computer and that you would be in there is like, can you imagine the disappointment? Now you're dead. But we have a computer program that's like, no, I'm right here. Yeah, but it's not you.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

So I mean, that is.

[Pete Holmes]

And then what is you? I mean, like, will. It could happen without even us having to act, either of us having to actively done it because we put enough stuff out there. Right.

[Jesse David Fox]

But. But the idea, like, I. I don't think it's that spiritual. Obviously, I look at it from a spiritual lens. Yeah, but you are not a thought. You are not your thoughts. You are the witnessing consciousness of those thoughts. But to think like, no, if I could go like, if there's something that says, hi, I'm Pete, I was born in Boston, then that would be me. Is like. Is literally a fundamental misunderstanding of what you are, because you've been there the whole time and the thoughts have done nothing but change. And your body has changed, and your body is another object that the consciousness observes. It's really goof troop. And my concern on that working is zero.

[Pete Holmes]

Working in what way?

[Jesse David Fox]

That I would be convincingly inside of a computer and being like, no, this is me. That doesn't mean we can't make a computer that is very insistent that it is me and that it is having the same experience and that it worked. But I'm gonna say, all right. And I have a Nintendo game that makes it seem like we're playing three on three ice hockey.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, maybe this is too dark of a thought, but that. That aspect of it, which is that not only could they at some point do this, make a computer that thinks it's you, but it's. You can make a computer that thinks you and as a result has a similar line of thinking as you, but as a result, because it does not have a body, we'll be like, oh, no, I'm trapped in this. And this is why. This is maybe not true, but I Think it is. Why often when you. They try to create consciousness in AI it often they Often suicide.

[Jesse David Fox]

Oh, really? Yeah, I've heard of this. Well, I'd also add into this dark mirror kind of conversation that time. This is Rupert Spiro. But time is what eternity. So eternity doesn't really mean everlasting in time. It means ever present. So it's awareness. So. So time is what eternity looks like through the faculties of a thinking mind. So if you make a computer program, it's not going to experience time. Time isn't somewhere something going, tick, tick, tick, tick. It's. It's how the eternal present is filtered and processed. And we build the story that when you came in was earlier than when you're sitting here. A computer wouldn't know, oh, I've been here for nine days. That's. That's. That's absurd. That's a joke. So of course it would go like. Well, it wouldn't even be wrapping it up. Like, you think, like it was alive for seven days and then it killed itself. It would just be like, this is all simultaneous happening.

[Pete Holmes]

This is happening. This is happening.

[Jesse David Fox]

There's no reason to not just switch off or stay on. It's irrelevant.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

So it's like bink.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that's. This is.

[Jesse David Fox]

Wow. I think Philip K. Dick much.

[Pete Holmes]

But I. I have been thinking more and more about, like, the US. How do I put it? Like abstract thought or being abstract beings. And then we put words on it to try to communicate what. The abstract feeling.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Of what it feels like to have this conversation.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

But the words we're having or is not what it actually feels like for. For us, it gives the consumers that.

[Jesse David Fox]

Are there painting pictures of each other all the time.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

And that. That's a real. That's the tantric approach to your emotion. Sorry, I hope I'm hearing you. Do you feel seen?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

I'm not changing the subject. That's for real. Because you can have a feeling and you go like lonely. And the tantric approach. Vedantic would be. I do this because vedantic is a V. And it helps you go like, you're over here. You're the witnessing presence. And there's loneliness. Tantras actually go into what. The feeling that you call loneliness and explore what it actually is and what it's actually made of. And when you do it, it's hard to remember to do it when you're feeling lonely or angry or sad. But when you do it, you realize that that sensation, you could think of it as like, if you were. This is again, Rupert's Spiro, but if you were drawing it, it would just be a series of little dots, like clusters of dots and different densities. But what each of those dots is made is actually completely not feeling lonely or sad or anything. It's this very abstract thing. So what I'm saying is what I got from you is like, we're having incredibly complicated feelings, but we just go like, I'm bored.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's like, well, actually, there's a little bit of ecstasy in there, and there's a little bit of dread in there, and there's a little bit of fear in there. There's a little bit of all of these things, but they're all made out of the same, what I would call spacious light. So you go into it until it goes like. It's Mario recognizing the pixels.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. It's also like, truly, there are studies done that if you have more word, more adjectives, you have. Like, having more words to describe feelings gives you more access to those feelings.

[Jesse David Fox]

Oh, wow. I thought you were gonna say the opposite, and I was concerned.

[Pete Holmes]

No, and it's. It's a thing that.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's like umami. When someone explained umami, now you're looking for it when you're eating. Yeah. Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like, I don't know if you've ever had the experience. Actually, I'm gonna rephrase this. I'm going to assume you have. Where you hold a baby and they don't have a personality yet, but you go, I know this.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And what do you know?

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It makes me cry. It truly is like, we are all still that. We just have put what we think of as personality on top of that. But we are still sometimes able to access the pre. Pre Brain part of, like, who are people? Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Because it didn't go anywhere.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

You're looking through that, at that and remembering yourself. That's an. Actually, that's a really great way to explain my issue with putting yourself on a computer and go, okay, put this baby on a computer.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

No thoughts, no personality, no memories. Put it on the computer. I'm sorry. I guess I'm kind of pleased with myself.

[Pete Holmes]

No, it's exactly that.

[Jesse David Fox]

But the issue with that is the greatest issue of humanity is who are we? What are we? And I do see a little bit of Greek mythology hubris when we're like. And Cephocles thought he could put himself into a pillar, and it's like, all right, Sophocles.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

I think THE CROWD YAWNS the idea that we.

[Pete Holmes]

That any time period people thought they figured it out.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. Is so darling.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. It's just like, I. I mean, I. I don't say it often because I do believe I would be stealing it from you, but it's like dog. A dog looking at the Internet or what.

[Jesse David Fox]

I didn't make that up, but I did. I don't even know if I popularized it, but I can't remember who you popularize it to. Me, to you and to myself.

[Pete Holmes]

The fish in the fishbowl.

[Jesse David Fox]

I think that one that I haven't said in a while.

[Pete Holmes]

I kind of can't remember it was. But essentially, like, it's kind of like I learned I was moving. And they're explaining how to gratiate your cat into a new apartment. And they said, a cat moving to another apartment is not like you moving to another apartment or even you moving to another city. It's like you moving to another planet. It's like you moving to another plane of existence. Like, that is how cats understand their physical space.

[Jesse David Fox]

Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

So. And then I. I don't know if you've ever moved a cat to another space, but they do not like it.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It is a. It. It is their version of a sort of existential dread of like, I've landed on Mars. What is existence?

[Jesse David Fox]

What do I do?

[Pete Holmes]

And you essentially have to re. Teach it. It's like, well, actually, the people that you know, the only four people you know, are still here.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then they're like, slowly be like, well, then where's my food?

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, does food still exist on Mars? And he's like, I don't know. Food still exists. And you're like, oh, I guess my life isn't so different.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's crazy making. Yeah. What I'm hearing is if you move a cat, feed it right away.

[Pete Holmes]

I believe that is part of it. I believe. I guess this is like news you can use. I believe you move it to a small space.

[Jesse David Fox]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I could bring it just to the bathroom or something like that. Especially if there's a place they can hide and you have their food there. And then you slowly expand the space that has. So they. They. Because otherwise it's truly like, relate to cats. Well, I thought you'd relate to this aspect.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, no, I relate to everything you're.

[Pete Holmes]

Saying where if you put a dog in a new place, there's like, cool new place. What's that smell? What's everything that's ever been here.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. Yeah. Dogs are Extroverts. Cats are introverts. That's all. That's all we're saying. Cats are traumatized. Dogs are doing just fine. Even traumatized dogs seem pretty good.

[Pete Holmes]

Where. So that's what. But I guess in that way, I think people in general more like cats. Do. I think. I think that.

[Jesse David Fox]

I think people in general like dogs more.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, they like dogs more.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because we want to be like dogs.

[Jesse David Fox]

But people, you know, you aspire to be a dog. You surrender to the fact that you're a cat.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. But it might be just because I'm a cat, and as a result, I relate more to it.

[Jesse David Fox]

But, like, I do think we're two cats right now. I am definitely a cat. Yeah. I, I. You do think what?

[Pete Holmes]

That we're.

[Jesse David Fox]

Like you said, I do think that we're. Oh, it doesn't matter.

[Pete Holmes]

It doesn't matter.

[Jesse David Fox]

This is hosting. I already have one in the chamber. I just wanted to say on that last computer thing, I move to say them trying to put us in computers is valid because I was kind of dismissing it. I just wanted to say it's us looking for ourselves. So no matter what it does, it's finding itself in everything. It's hard to explain. It would be like we're having a dream, that we're trying to put the mind of the dreamer inside of a glass of orange juice. But because it's in the dream and made of the dreamer's mind, everything is equally valid. So when I dismiss it, you could also dismiss my highfalutin philosophies as equally irrelevant and saying it's all held in the same wonderful mystery wherein nothing is wrong.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. I do think we all us and those scientists. I don't want to speak to everybody. Are trying to know what it is. And so far, seemingly, it is unattainable. I often think about limits in, like, physics, not physics in calculus. Like, there's the idea of a limit approaches infinity or whatever, but can never reach infinity. But, like, essentially, if a limit gets close enough to infinity, we just go, well, that's infinity. Because it's getting closer and closer and closer and closer to this one spot. And I do think my assumption is the not knowing is, like, ultimately we're all going to exist in.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I think spiritual people probably have more comfort in that idea. I mean, that's what faith ultimately is.

[Jesse David Fox]

Right? It's. I love. It was a great Richard Rohr quote. He's like, we've turned faith into certainty. It's like, I know, I know that this, this and this. And I'm. And it's like. When it's actually. It's the opposite. It's supposed to be comfort with uncertainty.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. I have no idea if conclave is exactly accurate, but when that. It was, how it started in that sort of space, I was like, I didn't know. That's. I hope this is what it's like. Which part? The. Literally, very much of the very. The. The. There are conversations about doubt was how the movie sort of started. And I believe he gives a speech where it's like, we want a Pope who accepts that, like, faith to me.

[Jesse David Fox]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm like, is this what they say? Or is this, like, what.

[Jesse David Fox]

That's so cool. Or is it like. Is this fan fiction?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that's. That's. But I'm decided, lacking of any other sort of spiritual option, that I'm just going to believe that's what they're like. And then I do think that they need to figure out, assuming this is what they're like, how to communicate that to people who want certainty in the face of uncertainty.

[Jesse David Fox]

You're right. Yes. I didn't bump on that in conclave at all. And I'm not Catholic, but I have. And I know there's a lot of issues with the. Let's put those to one side. I'm just saying I buy that. There's, like, some groovy conversations happening. Like, good. Good stuff there. Like, I. Yeah, me, too. I don't think the Pope is over there. No matter what they say publicly, I think their interior world is probably.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah. The hope is not.

[Jesse David Fox]

The hope is the Pope.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Like, right. Wrong. Right. Wrong. Yes. This.

[Jesse David Fox]

Well, yes. Because anybody that I think has had an authentic God encounter drops that. And that's also where you're going. Sorry. We ended up. The book is called the Comedy Book.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

The subtitle.

[Pete Holmes]

This is somewhat in the book. Most of the book is talking about literally, like, a thing comedians did. But, like, this is the person who wrote the book. It's. It's not in there.

[Jesse David Fox]

No, I. I can't not. Yeah, it usually comes up whenever we talk. Let's hit. I think I have. Didn't I tell. Page 215. Let me just check. No, no, I changed it to 215. So we're good. Do you have to blow? You have to go. Can we have seven more minutes? Okay, let's do. Sorry, Jesse.

[Pete Holmes]

Sure.

[Jesse David Fox]

It'll. It'll be a nice. I think the shorter episodes tend to perform Better.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, really?

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Look, I'm just happy to have the conversation.

[Jesse David Fox]

Me, too. But I. I'm cutting it short because our poor producer got.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, there's a lot of listening.

[Jesse David Fox]

Tricked. You got tricked into two episodes. So she's been here since 11, so we're going to wrap this up.

[Pete Holmes]

I hear you.

[Jesse David Fox]

Even though I could talk to you forever. Give me the thing.

[Pete Holmes]

Sorry, your entire book. No, no.

[Jesse David Fox]

When I was promoting my book, there was one thing that I used to love to say. I don't even remember, but is there an area that you were proud of that. That you might think teased the book a little bit for people?

[Pete Holmes]

This is a great question. I'll say this. I'm gonna. I brought the book.

[Jesse David Fox]

Worst question.

[Pete Holmes]

It's not a good. It's a. Sorry. It's the good question. I sang that as a stall.

[Jesse David Fox]

Oh, I see. In that life, you don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

But I will say this. I will say I was thinking about the book, which I've not written for a few years, and not look back, and I will. The. I think it's called an epigraph, which is the part where you do little quotes. And I do think I'm very proud of the epigraph because I think it's like, well, that's the. The book. And I think I brought it because I was like, well, I'm not gonna remember these quotes.

[Jesse David Fox]

I. I love these quotes. Kierkegaard.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was like, this is kind of a sense of the book, and I can go into certain ideas of the book that I'm.

[Jesse David Fox]

So this is.

[Pete Holmes]

But I'll read these quotes.

[Jesse David Fox]

This is the right choice. I wish I had said read the quotes.

[Pete Holmes]

So the first quote is, humor is the last stage of existential awareness before faith. Soren Kierkegaard concluding unscientific postscript to philosophical fragments. And then the second quote is, comedy is to make everybody laugh at everything and deal with things, you idiot. Joan Rivers to a heckler in Wisconsin.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's great.

[Pete Holmes]

And I was like. When I found. I was like, I didn't. I don't know why I wrote a whole book. Like, that's essentially the entirety of the book, which is just sort of like, comedy is everything. It's my way through to everything. Like, it's how I understand the world. And writing about comedy is how I can communicate how I see the world. Yeah, right. I'm. I. The book is. I'm using comedy as a way of expressing myself. But, like, there's so much in it. And I think there's so much value to what comedy can bring. And the hope is, you know, the goal is to make people, I think, appreciate comedy differently and to appreciate as an art form in the hope of them just being able to generally appreciate things more deeply.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. Yeah. That's great. I love the way the book started. Made me think. There's a Thomas Merton quote about laughing. I want to retreat, respond with that.

[Pete Holmes]

Summarize what each chapter is about while you're looking.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So chapter one is about comedy, and it sort of distinct. It distinguishes kind of what we're talking about. There's a difference between jokes, comedy. I think people assume comedians tell jokes like joke, book jokes. And what the first chapter is arguing, is that comedy is an art form. So as a result, comedians might use jokes, but that is just the way in which they communicate sort of themselves.

[Jesse David Fox]

I appreciated that. I did think of Jeselnik, who's our closest. He kind of writes street jokes.

[Pete Holmes]

But he. But he. He. But if you read an Anthony Jeselnik joke, it wouldn't work unless you did.

[Jesse David Fox]

I agree.

[Pete Holmes]

Same thing with Mitch. You have to do a kind of a soft Mitch impression to even get there. And I think that is. That's good writing. Both in writing, the Persona of the person on stage.

[Jesse David Fox]

I want to give you an example. And then we're. We're almost out of here. But like, he goes, if I said in my voice, ready? My neighbor has Alzheimer's, and it's the saddest thing in the world. He comes to my door every morning, knocks on my door and says, have I seen his wife? The tragedy is his wife died 10 years ago. But it's worth telling him just to see the smile on his face. You don't need to do an Anthony Jessel. That's a street joke. And when I say street joke, I'm not putting it down.

[Pete Holmes]

No, no, no.

[Jesse David Fox]

I'm saying he made a bulletproof joke that my father could tell at a barbershop.

[Pete Holmes]

But if you print it out when.

[Jesse David Fox]

You do it as Anthony.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah. But do you think if you printed out all 60 of them in a row, you'd get the same. As we were talking about, the same feeling that is then being in the room of it.

[Jesse David Fox]

You can have the orgasm, but Anthony takes you through the experience.

[Pete Holmes]

And so, like, in Jerry Seinfeld's defense, that's how his brain works. And you get a sense of who Jerry Seinfeld is because he does that.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But the fact that he would, like. I hope he or whatever. I don't care. He's fine. That. But I hope people understand that just because he writes joke. Your sounding jokes that like he's still doing the same thing. This is just sort of what he looks like. It's not like there are painters who still make paintings that look exactly like people.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

If that is how they express themselves, it doesn't mean that they're not also artists compared to like a sort of. More.

[Jesse David Fox]

That's completely right. But you touched it. And I'm sure you say stuff like this in the book. The book is called the Comedy book by Jesse David Fox. I was gonna say the reason why. Seinfeld, Bargazzi, Gaffigan, Ryan Hamilton, all those guys, they are authentically that if any of them were doing it commercially, like to be commercial, you could smell it a mile away. And Bobby Kelly is that. He's from Medford, for fuck's sake. I'm just kidding. I'm from Boston. I wanted to say where he's from. I just mean like, that's a Medford guy. That's a funny guy from Medford. And if he was going Q tips or women need cotton balls and men don't would be like, what the fuck is this? Demetri was almost a lawyer. It's perfect.

[Pete Holmes]

And I have no sense. I have not asked Bobby Kelly this. I guess I should interview him and specifically be like, when you called me. Look at this Harry Potter here. Or whatever he said. Did you. Where were you in your act? Did you feel like. Are you proud of that nod in terms of like. Yeah, I'm truly. I'm not deeply hurt, but I don't even know. I literally had glasses and brown hair. It was not really a kind of.

[Jesse David Fox]

But I'm sure my version is. I look at this Timothy Chalamet. I'm 45, I'm out of touch. They're going like, Chalamet. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I mean, he. I have no. He was just looking for something. And like, ultimately, like, don't get too.

[Jesse David Fox]

Close to the cage.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Ultimately. Oh.

[Pete Holmes]

Ultimately I afford him the grace to not necessarily nail it every time. You're just trying to get through it.

[Jesse David Fox]

Sometimes it's a bag of tricks.

[Pete Holmes]

It's okay. It's okay.

[Jesse David Fox]

Sorry I kept cutting you off.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, you didn't.

[Jesse David Fox]

I love the book. I hate that we have to run short, but thank you for being forever in my mind the guest that was cool with a double booking and rolling with it. And we got it. We got a good 90 minutes. I mean, that's a proper episode.

[Pete Holmes]

That was 90.

[Jesse David Fox]

It truly felt like it was maybe hour 15.

[Pete Holmes]

Not even that short. I was like, yeah, we're. It was a lot.

[Jesse David Fox]

We jumped in, I guess, like you a guest like you who knows the deal, knows how to go.

[Pete Holmes]

This is. I gotta listen to twice.

[Jesse David Fox]

You gotta. That's the hope. You got a full. You made it weird. This is not like some bonus episode Pixar short. This is a proper episode.

[Pete Holmes]

I think so. I think it was weird as hell.

[Jesse David Fox]

It was weird. And we. We made it AI stuff. We should. Joe. We should call this one, like, the future of comedy question mark with Jesse Fox to give it a real clickbaity. So. Because it was excellent.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay.

[Jesse David Fox]

Would you grace us with another. Keep it crispy.

[Pete Holmes]

Keep it crispy.

[Jesse David Fox]

Thanks for being here, man.

[Pete Holmes]

Thank you for having me.

[Jesse David Fox]

It was great.