Jimmy Carr Returns

Summary

Podcast Summary: You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes – Jimmy Carr Returns (April 17, 2024)

Episode Overview

In this rich, laughter-filled episode of "You Made It Weird," comedian and host Pete Holmes sits down with the ever-witty Jimmy Carr for an in-depth, one-on-one conversation. Their discussion seamlessly flows between comedy craft, personal growth, spirituality, grief, cultural perception, and the impact of AI, peppered with hilarious anecdotes and astute observations.

Main Theme:
An exploration of the personal and creative weirdness that fuels stand-up comedy, coupled with deep dives into philosophy, psychology, spirituality, and the nature of happiness, all sprinkled with rapid-fire riffs and philosophical banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Craft and Legacy in Comedy

• Comedy as Legacy: The comedians reflect on the fleeting nature of comedic legacy, noting that inspiration often outlives direct recognition:
  • Jimmy: "I don't know if there's any legacy in comedy. My theory is it all goes back in the pot." (07:30)
  • Pete: "Don threw the stone in the lake. And the ripples continue, even if you don't remember the stone." (07:58)
• Romance and Nostalgia: Pete expresses nostalgia for his early stand-up days in NYC, while Jimmy equates this to his time at Edinburgh Fringe, likening it to the “where are they now” moments of a war movie.
  • Pete: "I wish I had nostalgia for the present." (06:35)

2. Spirituality, Religion, and the Middle Path

• God as Metaphor: Inspired by Pete’s book and AC/DC’s road manager, the comedians discuss the need for a middle ground in religious thought:
  • Jimmy: "God is the name of the blanket we put over the mystery to give it a shape." (03:21)
  • Pete: "Nothing excites me more... than when I find teachers from different traditions saying the exact same thing." (05:11)
• Faith and Grief: Jimmy recounts losing his faith right before his mother's death, making the subsequent grief even more complex.
  • Jimmy: "The one time I needed to believe that someone had moved on..." (12:26)

3. Family Dynamics, Childhood, and Wounds

• Comedians as 'Thermostats': Both explore how growing up managing emotionally volatile households trained them in their comedic craft.
  • Jimmy: "You're here for vibes. Just in the room. Make everything all right." (13:53)
  • Pete: "It's our wound turned pro." (13:15)
• On Taking Responsibility for Happiness: They muse on learning to set boundaries and take responsibility for one’s own happiness, referencing advice from philosophers and therapists.
  • Jimmy: "Taking responsibility for your own happiness is probably the root to that." (15:13)
  • Pete: "My wife has had to tell me a thousand times, you're not responsible for anyone else's happiness." (15:00)

4. The Alchemy and Psychology of Stand-Up

• Audience as Performance: A deep dive into the symbiotic relationship between performer and audience, and the contagiousness of laughter.
  • Jimmy: "Being in an audience is a performance as well." (18:48)
  • Pete: "Laughter is contagious. They're laughing more... It's a very social noise." (19:28)
• Slow Down on Stage: Wisdom from comics like Ron White (“If you’re doing badly, slow down. If you’re doing well, slow down.” – 17:28) and Jerry Seinfeld (“Remember, they haven’t heard it.” – 17:48) is dissected.

5. Risk, Reward, and Generational Trends

• Risk-taking: Discussions about how growth—creative and personal—lies on the other side of discomfort, with commentary on young people substituting real-life challenges for simulated ones (porn, video games).
  • Pete: "What you want is always on the other side of something you don't want." (25:21)
  • Jimmy: "You can't have an easy life and a great character." (26:10)
• Advice for Young Women in Comedy: Navigating status, risk-taking, and changing incentives in a slowly evolving industry.
  • Jimmy: "If you can...bet on yourself, you kind of game the system a little bit." (27:48)

6. Persona, Identity, and Perception

• Self vs. External Identity: Exploring how how one is perceived shapes comedic persona.
  • Jimmy: “You’re a story you tell yourself, but also you’re reflected back in the world, like how people see.” (22:01)
  • Pete: “My friend Josh Lieb said I looked like a youth pastor...I didn't know.” (23:36)
• Growing Online vs. In Real Life: The risk of self-authoring one’s entire identity in the digital space without real-life friction. (24:22)

7. Cancel Culture and Free Expression

• The Reality of 'Cancellation': They question the truth of "cancelling" and whether it truly derails careers (Chappelle, Louis CK).
  • Jimmy: “Chappelle has been canceled. The biggest selling comic in the world.” (31:42)
  • Pete: “No one is really being canceled.” (31:27)
• Comedy as Psychic Release: They see comedy as a catharsis against societal self-censorship:
  • Jimmy: "The call is coming from inside the house. It's self-censorship that's kind of going on." (33:58)
  • Pete: “There’s something that ministers to people about [acknowledging] these thoughts.” (36:06)

8. Psychological Tools & Healing

• Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP): Jimmy expounds on NLP, cognitive behavioral therapy, and other tools for rewiring self-perception and recoding memories.
  • Jimmy: "The map is not the territory... You don't see that you have these beliefs about what you can do and what you can't do but they'll absolutely dictate your life." (65:55)
  • On memory reframing: “Don't code every memory the same.” (73:56)
• The Power of Narrative: How changing your internal story can shift both your brain chemistry and your life.
  • Pete: “Imagine what your own narrative, your own voice is doing. Not just as like a woo woo, the secret manifest.” (68:16)

9. Philosophy of Happiness and Comparison

• Happiness Formula: Jimmy shares a striking insight from a friend:
  • Jimmy: "Happiness is your standard of living minus envy." (47:01)
• On 'Enough': The story of Joseph Heller and Kurt Vonnegut at a Hamptons party (48:20):
  • Heller: "But I've got something he'll never have. Enough."

10. Spiritual Practices, Mysticism, and Non-Duality

• The Non-Dual Experience: Pete describes a retreat with Rupert Spira, expounding on the direct experience of awareness and unity:
  • Pete: "The awareness looking out your eyes is the same awareness that's looking out my eyes." (49:46)
• Mystery vs. Explanation: Jimmy laments Vatican II, arguing that when religion lost its mystery (via translation), it lost much of its power as an experience.
  • Jimmy: “The story is nonsense. Stand up. It’s not real. That can’t be real.” (63:10)

11. AI, Progress, and The Human Spirit

• AI as Covers Band: Jimmy isn’t worried about AI replacing comedians, likening it to a cover band—"AI is just spitting back stuff. It’s a covers band." (85:29)
• True Creativity & Humans: They muse on humans’ restlessness and insatiable drive for novel creation versus AI’s limitations.
• Historical Perspective: Jimmy describes the "three humiliations of man" (Copernicus, Darwin, Freud) and reflects on luck, cultural evolution, and the ever-shifting nature of societal progress (93:40).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Spirituality and Religion
  • Jimmy: “God is the name of the blanket we put over the mystery to give it a shape.” (03:21)
  • Pete: “Nothing excites me more...than when I find teachers from different traditions saying the exact same thing.” (05:11)
• On Comedy and Trauma
  • Pete: “It’s our wound turned pro.” (13:15)
  • Jimmy, on being the emotional thermostat: “You’re here for vibes.” (13:53)
• On Risk and Growth
  • Pete: “What you want is always on the other side of something you don’t want.” (25:21)
  • Jimmy: “You can’t have an easy life and a great character. Never been done.” (26:10)
• On Audience and Performance
  • Jimmy: “Being in an audience is a performance as well.” (18:48)
  • Pete: “Laughter is contagious...It’s a very social noise.” (19:28)
• On Cancel Culture
  • Jimmy: “I was cancelled, you go, I'm playing 45 countries. It seems fine.” (31:42)
  • Pete: “No one is really being canceled.” (31:27)
• On Happiness & Envy
  • Jimmy (via George Mack): “Happiness is your standard of living minus envy.” (47:01)
• On Identity & Perception
  • Pete: “My friend Josh Lieb said I looked like a youth pastor...I didn’t know.” (23:36)
• On Being Present
  • Pete: “I wish I had nostalgia for the present.” (06:35)
• On Resilience and Growth
  • Pete: “If you have a negative experience, negative belief, you do a little journaling just to get to the core...You’re just full of shit. The practice is I’m full of shit.” (83:35)
  • Jimmy: "Just accept the apology you’re never gonna get and move on." (84:28)
• On AI and Creativity
  • Jimmy: “AI is a covers band. Beatles aren’t worried about the counterfeit Beatles, are they?...That’s all AI is at the moment.” (85:29)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Comedy & Spirituality Crossover: 03:00–07:30
• Comedy Craft/Nostalgia: 06:16–07:59
• Legacy & Grief: 07:12–08:23
• Family Dynamics/Childhood Wound: 12:26–14:14
• Taking Responsibility for Happiness: 15:00–15:45
• Comedy Performance Wisdom: 17:28–18:17
• Cancel Culture: 31:27–33:58
• On Risk and Growth (Video Games, Porn, Life): 24:22–26:45
• On Risk/Reward and Gender Norms: 27:07–28:46
• Historical Humiliation & Progress: 93:40–94:14
• NLP & Cognitive Behavioral Therapy: 65:55–75:19
• Philosophy of ‘Enough’ & Happiness: 47:01–48:20
• Non-duality & Awareness: 49:14–56:49
• On Grief & Meaning: 59:05–60:35
• On AI & the Future: 85:29–88:02

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Final Memorable Moments

• Endorsements: Jimmy earnestly praises Pete’s book and special:
  • Jimmy: "I'm such a big fan of the book. It's just exceptional...It felt like spending time with you." (96:38)
  • Pete: "What a gift. Thank you...from a comedian that I so respect and admire." (97:16)
• Classic Weirdness Ending:
  • Pete: “Would you say in your Irish… Your famously Irish accent, keep it crispy? It’s just how we end.”
  • Jimmy: “Keep it crispy.” (100:31)

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Tone & Style

The tone is playful, affectionate, thoughtful, and intellectually curious, with both comedians toggling between meaningful introspection and cheeky irreverence. Hilarious asides tumble seamlessly into earnest exchanges about what matters most.

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In summary:
If you’re looking for an episode that oscillates between philosophical, personal, and outright funny—while also offering real insights into human connection, creativity, and the meaning of life—this long-form chat between Pete Holmes and Jimmy Carr is essential listening.

Transcript

[A]

You made it weird. You made it weird.

[B]

You made it weird.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

You made it weird. Made it weird. Yes, you did. Made it weird. You made it weird With Pete Holmes. What's happening, weirdos? This is the return of Jimmy Carr, who I am so excited to have him in the studio for the first time. He did a live episode a few years back in Montreal with me and the Sklar brothers, which was awesome. He's hilarious. But this is the. This is the real deal, I think. One on one, me and Jimmy. He's so thoughtful. He's so interesting. He's so funny, obviously. And Jimmy has a new Netflix special. He's returning to Netflix with his latest standup special, Jimmy Carr, Natural Born Killer out now. We talk a little bit about it. No spoilers, but obviously I tell him how much I loved it. And Jimmy's brand new international tour. Jimmy Carr laughs funny. Laughs funny. It's on sale now. For tickets and info, visit Jimmy Carr.com that's car with two Rs. Jimmy C A R R.com for more, check out a special on Netflix and go see him live. I mean, come on. I'm also really, really happy to say the shows in Florida this weekend went amazing. I want to thank all the weirdos that came out to support me in. Dana. Dana, I think I'm saying it right now. Dania, Florida. I loved it. A special shout out to Jules and Maria, the. The two super weirdos that I met after the show. Such sweethearts. And I was so happy to spend some time with them. All right, let's get to it. Peteholmes.com for tickets. We're adding another show to Chicago, second show on Thursday because all the other ones sold out, which is awesome. And all the tour dates are on peteholmes.com in fact, I think I have some new ones that are hopefully up here. Yeah, we have Los Angeles on May 4, Chicago, Houston, Homestead, Pennsylvania and Brookfield, Wisconsin at the Milwaukee Improv. So all of those have been announced. Petehomes.com in the meantime, enjoy this chat with the wonderful Jimmy Carr, Natural Born Killer out now on Netflix. Everybody get into it. That's what Jimmy's used to.

[A]

Yes, that's actually part of my rider. People will think. People might think you clap just for sink. Yeah, actually, that's a huge part of.

[B]

My process is walking in when people are sinking my.

[A]

I will have a dapper man.

[B]

I can help you right here. I'm not going to get it, but right there you have a little book of tree. Tree stuff. The stuff of trees.

[A]

Why wouldn't you get it? Is it not your pay grade? What's your problem?

[B]

I didn't want to freak you out. That's what it was.

[A]

How freaked out could I be?

[B]

Honestly, I would have.

[A]

This is nice. Very nice to see you.

[B]

It's so nice to see you. I admire you so much.

[A]

Oh, stop it. Stop it all. I really. Have we started?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

This is it.

[B]

This is.

[A]

This is it. Okay. The. All I want to talk about is comedy. Sex. God. No, it's all I want to discuss.

[B]

Is that real?

[A]

Yeah, because I. I knew was coming on, so I read it and it's a phenomenal. It's a phenomenal piece of work.

[B]

It is not.

[A]

It's a really, really great book. I've been quoting you up and down town. That line from ACDC's road manager.

[B]

Yeah. Barry Taylor.

[A]

Barry Teller. Give us the line again.

[B]

God is the name of the mystery we. I'm sorry. God is the name of the blanket we put over the mystery to give it a shape.

[A]

It's. It blew my mind. It's such a wonderful. Because there's two kinds of idiots, right? There's people that believe in the fairy stories and there's people that say, there's no point in any of this. It's a waste of time.

[B]

Yes. And there is.

[A]

There's kind of. There's a middle way of kind of going. Yeah, there's something to be had.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I am AC DC's road manager.

[B]

Well, do you know, I do it. If you. You don't certainly don't have to. My latest special, I do it on stage. That. Yes, that's part of the book. Was so important to me. Oh, thank you.

[A]

I loved it.

[B]

I brought it on stage because I was like, that's my whole thing is. I just want people to hear that quote.

[A]

No, the. The other bit that really. You really got into my head with was the bit about going, well, I believe when I die, I go back to God and you believe in nothing. You believe, you go back to nothing. I think we might be talking about the same thing.

[B]

That's exactly right.

[A]

It's really interesting. Kind of. I forget what the faith is, but the one that kind of worships all the faiths, do you kind of go, there's something in this.

[B]

Yeah. Sort of a. What do they call it? The perennial wisdom. Sort of like everybody's pointing to the same thing. Yeah, more or less. And honestly, I'm real into this stuff and my wife will tell you that joke here. My Wife will at ease. I actually realized. I was like, he's.

[A]

Wife's. He's white. The creepy bit is this will be watched back because the wife's clearly buried in the garden. Really? Oh, my wife will tell you, Jimmy, I can operate. I can operate her head from above.

[B]

I realized we were having a sincere conversation. I was like, you don't have to poke him and make him into. You know what I mean? We can relax. I regret doing that. And I forget what I was saying. But my wife. What did I say? My wife will tell you that we don't know.

[A]

We don't know. I don't know what she'll say.

[B]

It doesn't matter. But that stuff is the most important stuff in the world to me. And I study it very. Oh, she'll tell you that nothing excites. Excites me more for real than when I find teachers from different traditions saying the exact same thing. And I know that sounds like an exaggeration, but when I'm reading somebody from the non dual understanding or somebody from the even mystical Catholic or. Or whatever it is, and they say something and I'm like, but that's from this. And they don't even know that they're quoting one another. It makes me filled with joy. Just kind of like I am right now that you. That you read and enjoyed my book.

[A]

I really enjoyed it. I thought was great. It's a great story as well. It's a great kind of. Because it strikes me that with crashing, it's the first bit of the book.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like the divorce and the comedy in New York and stuff. And I love that show because it's. It struck me as a very authentic, realistic view of a very glamorous bit of the world for me. I mean, it might not felt glamorous when you're sleeping on people's couches.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or starting off and flyering in New York. But coming from the UK and kind of the America stand up scene always looked so kind of great. And this. It's an American medium, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like the western jazz stand up comedy.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

The great gifts America's given the world.

[B]

Yes. I completely agree. The word I would use is romantic. So obviously not sexually romantic. Yeah, no, I get romance to like. And when I. We shot it on the corner that I really handed out flyers. And when we were back there still, when I walk by, it's 3rd and McDougal. I walk by, I'm like, like. I'm like starstruck by a corner. And that I got. This is all hindsight. I always. I. I wish I had nostalgia for the present. And I did have a little. Even while I was doing it, I was like, I can't believe I'm gonna go up in Manhattan tonight. But now I look back and I'm like, do you have that, too? I mean, no.

[A]

No. I think that for me, that would be the Edinburgh Fringe Festival.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the guys that you came up with. Yeah. And kind of where everyone ended up. It feels like kind of the end of a war movie now. If this guy made it, this guy didn't make it. You know, whatever that is for you. It feels like the where are they now? Kind of thing.

[B]

I'm so with you. And I think about. They don't know the people that I started with that aren't doing it anymore. With full respect, but they just. They stopped. I know their acts, and I think about them and they're still making me laugh. And there's something really kind of like. I don't know. I hope that's sweet to them.

[A]

It's lovely. I don't know if there's any legacy in comedy. My theory is it all goes back in the pot. It's like, well, you know, because people go, who was I chatting about yesterday? Don Rickles. Right. I was in Vegas and I was chatting about Don Rickles, and. And these guys didn't know who Don Rickles was. And you kind of go, okay, well, that doesn't matter because Jeff Ross exists.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And Jeff has taken some essence of Don Rickles and he now does that thing, and it's like, okay, well, that's. That's great, too. That works.

[B]

Don threw the stone in the lake. And the ripples continue. Even if you don't remember the stone, which is kind of sad. Obviously, there's a. There's a morning to that would like to know.

[A]

I mean, I kind of think that the. I like that thing of you die twice the day they forget you. Yeah. The last time someone says your name.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's nice. It's a nice thing of, like, I always think when. When someone tells you about grief or whatever, you go, what was their name? It's a nice remembrance.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just a little thing, but it's nice.

[B]

Our dog just died. And my five and a half year old daughter. I think we're getting a new dog today, question mark. I think that's where my wife might be.

[A]

I didn't bring a dog. Now I feel like a dick here. You. To bring a dog.

[B]

You'll like this, Jimmy. Cuz I. I think you'll like this. Correct me if I'm wrong. I've always.

[A]

I don't like the fact your dog died.

[B]

No, I know. And we'll get to that.

[A]

I also, you can see that dog there. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

That's Katie's dog.

[A]

Okay. Because I was about to say that dog doesn't know it's about to die. We're taping this now, but that. That dog's not going to make it. There's a dog in the room.

[B]

That's not my dog. I am obsessed.

[A]

You can see her too, right? No, no, I just wanna.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. I didn't lick the back of a frog. I'm just checking everyone's real.

[B]

Not today.

[A]

So go on. So your dog died. I'm sorry to hear that.

[B]

It's sidebar. I'm obsessed with reverse engineering a New Yorker style cartoon where the caption is, this is just for fun. Two guys talking. The caption is, it's from both of us. And when you said, I didn't bring a dog, it sprung to mind. An option for that cartoon is a guy with a crazy looking dog. His clothes are all torn up. You know what I mean? The dog's clearly been attacking him. And then someone next to him goes, it's from both of us. That's one way to do it. I've been obsessed with this for years.

[A]

It's from both of us. He's very nice.

[B]

There could be a barbarian with a severed head. He's covered in blood and there's a clean person next to him saying to the king, it's from both of us. I think that's very funny. But if nothing else, I'm planting it in your mind.

[A]

No, I like that.

[B]

If you ever. I like reverse. Well, I should first. I think they should do that for the New York.

[A]

That's how first jokes are written. I think comedians are very much like detectives because most intelligence is about what's next.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we're about what just happened.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

A lot of what we just happened. That seems weird.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

What just happened there.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Kind of calling the situation as is. So we're thinking in reverse, which is kind of that thing of the. The detective. The classic kind of Sherlock Holmes of the. Well, it must have been someone they knew because the dog didn't bark. Noticing the dog didn't bark.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Is an unusual thing.

[B]

Right. Or Ace Ventura with the sliding door. You said you heard him scream and then. Remember, do you recall?

[A]

No. Saw it once.

[B]

Liked it Too busy watching the crown, are we?

[A]

Yes. Yes. I do masturbate a great deal. The. I quite like the crown. A friend of mine asked the queen if she'd seen the. If she'd seen the crown, which was seen as being. A guy called David Tang was an extraordinary character, and he was quite good friends with the queen. And he said, did you. Have you watched the Crown? And she. She said, I didn't need to. I was there.

[B]

That is very good.

[A]

Kind of good, isn't it?

[B]

But don't you think she did.

[A]

She must have. My version is.

[B]

Did my ex wife watch Crashing, don't you think? After all these years, wouldn't you be curious if my ex wife made a TV show about our divorce? How long are you holding out?

[A]

She's going to have seen that a little bit.

[B]

Maybe just the pilot.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And there's part of me that hopes she did because I really tried to be respectful to her side.

[A]

I think you were right.

[B]

I think it's nice that there was a. There was like a. Maybe I did it unconsciously. There's like a baked in. Like. I realize now that I was a manchild. I was like a very. That's why Judd was probably drawn to it. I was like a man child. Didn't know what I was doing. Didn't know who I was. Didn't know how to speak up.

[A]

And you think that stage is over now. That's adorable. It's a Dory. Thinks he's a grown man now. Aw, look at him dressed like a toddler.

[B]

We can't all dress like the bad guy from Toy Story 4.

[A]

Literally the suit. Literally the suit. I'll have you now, as in Goosebumps.

[B]

You do have a haunted wooden puppet thing. That's the only thing I can ever get on you.

[A]

Thank you so much. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. Such a pleasure being.

[B]

Let's go back to the book because I want to know, you know, I know you were raised Catholic.

[A]

Yeah, raised Catholic. Lost my faith around 25. And why quite slowly, because I lost my faith just before my mother died. And the inconvenience of it really annoyed me. Like the one time that. The kind of sucker. The one time I needed to believe that someone had moved on. I was very enmeshed with my mother, very close to my mother in a. In a not dissimilar way to you. Yeah. And it was that thing of being able to. My question to comics is always, which of your parents were sick? There's always a sick parent and we had to be the thermostat emotionally in the house. So we had an ability to change the mood.

[B]

That is very well put.

[A]

You say, you know, you go to therapy and people say, well, you can't be responsible for anyone else's happiness. And you go, that's what I do for a living. A thousand people are turning up for an hour. That's what I'm going to change their mood.

[B]

It's our wound turned pro.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Went pro with our wound.

[A]

We went. We went pro with our. With our. Yes. Our issues.

[B]

Because I was. Tell me if you relate. It was in the book a little bit, but, like, seeing something coming. And I'm not talking about physical violence or anything, but just something pretty unpleasant is brewing. Nobody speaks anybody else's language. And that's when you start, like, singing a song. I would sing songs. I would do bits.

[A]

I remember, like, I remember really clearly being in the kitchen with my mother cooking something or whatever and going, I'm gonna go and watch a film. And she went, no, no, you can't go. I'm not doing anything. You're here for vibes.

[B]

You're here for vibes.

[A]

Just vibes. Just vibes. You just. Just in the room. Make everything all right.

[B]

Like the goat in Seabiscuit stall. You know about this?

[A]

It was Seabast fucking a goat.

[B]

A goat, okay. That's why it was so fast.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Gallons.

[A]

Just vibes.

[B]

But they'd put a goat in with Seabiscuit to calm him down or. I don't remember.

[A]

I don't know how that works with horses, but I guess they look at the goat and go, well, at least I'm not a goat.

[B]

I think so, too. Could be worse.

[A]

It could be worse. Could be this thing. What's this?

[B]

Who was it? I think it was Bob Saget. Used to walk around with his daughter and point to other dads and go, that could have been your dad. Isn't that funny?

[A]

I mean, he's such a funny bloke.

[B]

That could have been your dad. Just like, what a funny way to say I was a good dad without saying it. You know what I mean? That could have been your dad. Just some weird guy yelling at a street lamp or whatever it is. That could have been him. Tell me everything. And I mean this so sincerely.

[A]

I don't know. Everything.

[B]

No, I'm 45. You already said it, though.

[A]

Go on.

[B]

I'm 45, and I'm still. My wife has had to tell me a thousand times, you're not responsible for anyone else's. Happiness and there's an intellectual knowing and then there's a body knowing and I'm waiting for the body knowing.

[A]

It's a. It's a weird one though, isn't it? It's that thing of like. I think taking responsibility for your own happiness is probably the root to that. I mean, it's very Ayng Rand. I think Ayn Rand gets given a hard time because I think a lot of people conflate happiness and pleasure. And so there's this whole thing of like the kind of. A lot of the tech kind of libertarian ang Rand. People sort of go, oh, well, it's all about your own happiness. And that just means, you know, we're doing whatever you want, whenever you want.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But that really doesn't kind of work long term because what, what is happiness? It's like it's not. Your life is perfect.

[B]

It's.

[A]

You're just able to deal with stuff in a very balanced way. Yes. Taking responsibility for that. I think it's a full time job. So you've got no time for anyone else, which is kind of good because you being happy, it's better for the world. It's. The analogy I would draw is it's the same as the oxygen masks on the plane. You've got to put yours on first before you can help anyone else.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because when you're in, you know, we, we both. I mean, I watched the last question. I loved it. That thing about your, you know that time that your, your dad apologized to you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The time machine. You're not going back anywhere because it never happened.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

But that thing of like, it really kind of stuck out to me. Oh yeah, of course. Yeah, of course.

[B]

I didn't film that, that joke yet, but I'm really glad you like it.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. You must have seen me do that live.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because I'm nervous about that joke.

[A]

That's a great joke because in that.

[B]

Joke I'm calling out my father for not apologizing to me ever. I'm sort of nervous.

[A]

Why are you nervous about that?

[B]

I actually. Val. I hear my wife. That's my dad.

[A]

I. Val would be like, that's your wife. You made bad choices to have a go.

[B]

You would have loved it. Our wedding night. Gallons.

[A]

Yeah, of course. Gallons.

[B]

My wife really reminds me of my dad and it really does it for me. Like, I'm into it, but, but that.

[A]

Thing of like not taking responsibility for other people's. Other than in your, in your career.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Which Is. I mean, it's literally what you do. You kind of go out there and.

[B]

And don't you see a beauty in, like, those nights where we go out and maybe it's a little rowdy or it's just a little off for some reason, and you go out and you do turn them. You have all these strategies that you've developed as a grown up. Maybe you're quiet. You know what I mean? It's not about yelling or clapping your hands or flicking the light.

[A]

The best it was. Ron White had the best advice. Tell me if you're. If you're doing badly, slow down. If you're doing well, slow down.

[B]

That's very, very good.

[A]

Yeah, it's. It's. It's good for. 99 of comics are like, you just, oh, try and find it. Find your rhythm. Get into that thing of, like, where. Where it. It sits right for you.

[B]

Seinfeld says, too. He goes, remember, they haven't heard it. And that's a big one. They haven't heard it before.

[A]

Is he. Is he good?

[B]

Jerry.

[A]

Jerry.

[B]

Jerry Seinfeld.

[A]

Is he good? Yeah.

[B]

He's regarded as a.

[A]

No, you can see white people. No, literally.

[B]

He was literally David's writing partner.

[A]

So great. So great.

[B]

You had that.

[A]

That's very interesting, though. Remember, they haven't heard it before. That thing of, like, sort of embodying the material. Remembering why you thought it was funny on stage.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

And remembering that you're. You're sort of conducting them. I sort of use a lot more body movement than I ever used to.

[B]

Oh, can I compliment a very specific compliment.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Jacob, when do you take your dick out? Doesn't ruin the bit. There's a bit in the new special.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

You unbutton your coat and you. Mick Jagger, your. And I was like, that's a thousand at bats with that joke. That's me going, like, one night you did it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then there it was. And I got. I have the chills even talking about it because I get so excited.

[A]

It's often that thing that. The way that your performance is on stage and what you're doing. I always try and remind myself, though, being in an audience is a performance as well. It's all performative. So that thing of, like, being a rock gig, it's much easier to see because people are doing this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if I said, oh, how are you doing? And you went, all right. He lost his mind. But everyone. 10,000 people in a stadium. It seems absolutely.

[B]

Yeah, that's.

[A]

He seems fine. He seems Fine.

[B]

If I say the city we're in and you start clapping.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

We're not in a crowd. Something's wrong.

[A]

That would be.

[B]

Yeah, something's off.

[A]

But it's that performance thing of, like, the audience are, like. They don't think. They're not working.

[B]

And also, I was just talking to somebody about this. They were like, laughter is contagious. And there are all these concessions. It's like. It's true. They're laughing more. You know laughter yoga, where you just laugh for no reason.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

It's a little bit like that. But everyone's coming.

[A]

You're 30 times more likely to laugh in an auditorium than watching it at home. Do watch my new Netflix special. It's very good. But the point still stands. The idea that you go. It's a very social noise. We're telling other people that we got it and we get it, and we're. We're signaling to the one people around us. It's that thing of, like. I've got a theory about. In the uk, there's a real thing about, like, Christmas television and Christmas TV being great and the best shows, the Christmas specials and the.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's because people watch it together. Together at Christmas. And you watch TV isolated, on your own the rest of the year.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's a different experience. It's like, why is it better in the movies.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Than on a plane?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because you're not on headphones just looking at the thing. It's. It's not just the size of the screen. It's the shared experience. Especially with, like, a comedy movie.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like seeing it on the Friday it comes out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In a. In a neighborhood where people are going to join in the best.

[B]

Seeing Borat in the theater.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Was like, a peak experience for me. It's so people were running around. They had to. They had to run around. I was like, wow, you made run around funny.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, we have to move so good. Like, gospel church.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Really felt like that. It's really, really cool. I wonder, what do you think this is? This is the only prepared question I have for you. I was curious. Your new special is fantastic. I love it. It's so fun.

[A]

You're doing great.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Yeah. Correct points.

[B]

It's so fantastic.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And when I was watching it, I was curious. I was like, how does your Britishness, your Englishman ness, inform your comedy Persona, for lack of a better word, meaning? There's so much rigor. When I watched the Crown, I was like, oh, my God. Boarding school and the fucking tightness of it and the properness of it and there's something nice about it. There's good byproducts of that. But then here comes the cheekiest boy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Doesn't it inform it that you're English?

[A]

It's an odd thing. I'm. I'm not. So you're not English? No, I'm very aware of who I am, but also I'm very aware of how I'm perceived. So I carry an Irish passport. I'm a first generation Irish immigrant. So my parents moved over in the early 70s. Was born in London, just outside London, but like it's an Irish family. Everyone spoke with an Irish accent at home. It's a, it's. So it's that thing of like, you.

[B]

Know, I read that, but I just didn't even read.

[A]

No, but it's, it's like. No, but you can't, you sort of, you become very aware as well that you are, you sort of, you're a story you tell yourself, but also you're reflected back in the world, like how people see. So people imagine I went to Eton or something, some fancy local school. Fancy fee paying school.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No, local school. Yeah, local school. Didn't pay for anything. Just, you know, and then managed to kind of by hook or by crook, get a good education. Yeah, but it was back in the days when it was free.

[B]

Right. Isn't it interesting that you. We all do that to a certain extent lean into like the hand we're dealt regarding how we look, how people perceive us.

[A]

I think that's partly sort of the problem in the way of living online where you become totally self authored, whereas actually sort of yourself should be what you know about yourself. And then it's kind of, it comes up against, you know, the, the environment, the other people that are around and do they agree with that or not? And then you kind of change and then it's that lovely thing of kind of in life when you kind of, you find. I don't think you can beat your environment.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you kind of, you chat, you go to college and you go, well, I'm a different person here. I can decide to kind of rewrite the rules a little bit. And then getting into stand up comedy, I remember going, oh, yo ho ho, a pirate's life. For me, this will do. These are the struck me that I kind of. It was the, it was the island of the, of the broken toys.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

All the misfits have got together and.

[B]

I maybe I told you this last time. We chatted, but it. It was John Mulaney, of all people. We're checking into a hotel. They go, one of the rooms we have for you is a non smoking queen. This joke isn't too offensive, but I went, that's me. Like that.

[A]

It's hard.

[B]

That's not the clip, Joe. You can't clip that context. And Mulaney looks at me and he goes, you're like a embarrassing, fun dad. This is when we're in our 20s, so it's like being a dad was so far away, but I was like, oh, that's how people see me. I'm a dorky dad. It led to all these jokes that I didn't know someone else had told me. My friend Josh Lieb said I looked like a youth pastor. And I was like, oh, I didn't know. I just thought I looked like me. Mulaney said, I'm like a fun, dorky dad. These are. These are my environment. Not the self author alone. Internet. This is who I am.

[A]

Yeah. Who you think you might be. And then that thing of, like, going out to the world, I think it's. It's a. I mean, I slightly worry about it with, like. There's a generation of kids that have had zero freedom in real life.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so much freedom online.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so obviously online's more fun. So they're living their lives online. Online. And you go, well, actually, they need to kind of go out and. And it's that thing of, like, I don't know, not to get all serious, but the idea of saying people are doing things that are a proxy for the real thing. So they go, well, I'm gonna go on porn sites endlessly rather than take the risk of having real sex. And I'm gonna play video games rather than have a career.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because it's kind of that. It's like, if you think about video games, they're like sort of a proxy for a career. The different levels and the grades and the things that people spend. And there's a big boss at the end. I mean, it couldn't be any clearer what's going on.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And people, you know, young men are spending thousands of hours getting expert vice city or.

[B]

And you get status.

[A]

Yeah. And the status online, it works. And some people even make a living doing it. Right. But it's not really a substitute for the thing.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And it's the risk. It's the. It's the. The idea you could get hurt and there could be failure and there could be rough and tumble And I'm gonna.

[B]

Say something that I've said a million times, but I want your response to was an epiphany. I was like, oh, what you want, what you really want is always on the other side of something you don't want. So you just said like porn versus risking vulnerability. Trying to.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Attract a mate or whatever you want to say. A mate. The sex is part of it, but then the feeling that you both have, let's say it is a love connection. That glow afterwards isn't just I extinguished my sexual desire. You're actually like pride. Like I took a risk, I was vulnerable and I was accepted. Like it's this amazing love adjacent rush.

[A]

It's a, it's. Yeah, it's, I suppose that thing of like risk and reward. Like you can't have an easy life and a great character.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Never been done. So it's that thing of like you go, and life is self assignment. I didn't find that till quite late in life. I was like just going down the line of least resistance. Well, I'll, you know, shall I stay on at school? Some people don't, but you go, well of course I will. Shall I try and go to university? Yeah, I'll try and go to the best one. Shall I try and get a job? Yeah, I'll try and get the best paid one. Like it was all just like the next trying. I don't know whose life I was trying to live, but I'd. I'd given it no thought and kind of found myself in my mid-20s going, what do I, what do I do? I don't like this. What do I do next? And that self assignment bit is, I think, terrifying if you've never had any practice at being out on your own.

[B]

Yes. Risking and having it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Be a reward.

[A]

It's a weird thing like, you know, when you, when you have kids or whatever, they're great sort of teachers, but that idea of going, they like rides at the fun fair, like the teacups and then they like the little roller coaster and then they like the Peppa Pig thing and then they like the bigger one and then eventually and it's. What are they doing? Well, they're messing around with risk.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Slightly more risk. Slightly more. Slightly more. Slightly more. And they're pushing it every time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's kind of what life's like. Right, right. Kind of push the. I'll take more risk and more risk and how much this is like I was thinking about this thing recently about what's the you know, the world's very unfair, like agenda lines, Right. So there's more male CEOs, but then there's also more men in prison. And I think it's because of the performance enhancing drug that men take every day, which is testosterone, which is sort of risk. It's just. It's risk. That's what guys take crazy lunatic shots at things because the genetic makeup, right.

[B]

Their hormones testing has a relationship to risk and decisiveness and all that.

[A]

Sure, all that, yeah. It's just that thing of, like, advice for, you know, young women, or certainly, you know, young women again to our industry. Like, like, if you can sort of game it and go and take like a calculated risk at the right time of life, like bet on yourself, it's like, it's. You kind of game the system a little bit.

[B]

I thought you probably should take testosterone because it isn't. It's a crazy. When I see little. That was me going, like, I don't want to get too gender normative, but there's something going on where I'm like, as a young man, I felt an insatiable desire to, like, go up and prove it. Very deeply competitive. I'm not saying women can't be this way, but there were a lot of us men, you know, cave mening it up, pirating it up.

[A]

Isn't it that. That weird thing about, like. It's about incentives. And there was a huge incentive, if we're not the sportiest guys, to be funny at school. There was a social status that we could garner from that. And hopefully that's changing and that the funniest girl in school will be the most popular girl.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But that's going to change quite slowly, you know, in our. I think it'll happen sort of here first because you've got, like, there's. There's funny girls out there doing specials and they'll be the beacon that someone looks to and goes, right, I'm gonna be a bit like Beth Stelling. I'm gonna be hilarious.

[B]

And there's.

[A]

And then everyone's gonna.

[B]

Exactly, yeah. Murdering.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I remember when I saw Natasha the first time at Caroline's and I was like, what the fuck is happening here? And it's such a. Such an incredible thing. But you know what breaks my heart is the advice that a lot of young girls get, either verbally or just figure it out is how do you have a good date? As you laugh at what this idiot says, you laugh this dullard's jokes. And I've been at, you know, A restaurant next to a bad date. And this guy is a bag of.

[A]

I bet you have.

[B]

Just alone.

[A]

You mean the other. Yeah, that was a mirror dummy. The. Yeah. It's a weird thing. Not that anyone needs to take any advice from us, obviously, but it's kind of an interesting thing to talk about, like, because you go. The kind of industry. Be nice if it was more.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Balance. But. But actually that incentives thing.

[B]

Men are teddy babies.

[A]

Like, we get, like. We get the rewards. We get the. We get a social status from that. You. We're. We're. We're sort of demonstrating. He said, trying to find the words. We're manifesting verbal dexterity in order to avoid hard work. That's what we're doing.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I would like to not dig. So I'm like. Have you noticed, like, I'm trying to get real clever with it and there. And yeah, we don't. We don't even have to get into that. So you're not British. But the British appreciation and the British identity and even the Persona does seem to be informed that it's fun that a guy that's supposed to be so proper, you know, we're talking about a Persona is not. He's violating that idea. And that's part of the titillation, isn't it?

[A]

I think so. I think I probably get away with more because of. I sound like. I sound very plausible. Every time I walk on stage, I'm always. This could be a TED Talk. People wouldn't mind.

[B]

Deeply plausible.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's something special.

[A]

So plausible.

[B]

Jimmy Carr. Plausible.

[A]

Yeah. Plausible middle management. Yeah. It's nice. But it's also nice to kind of. It adds an element of surprise.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which is always kind of. It's the thing of. You go. It's all about context and who's saying it on stage.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Kind of matters.

[B]

And yes, I really like the joke about.

[A]

I'm sorry.

[B]

I think it's a standout joke and moment of the special.

[A]

It's fun. It's a really fun bit to do as well. Like that thing of going not to complain about cancel culture. Because you sort of go, well, I mean, you can criticize it or you want. Yeah, just don't call for me to be. But I didn't like it. So no one can see it.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

That's a different thing.

[B]

Right, right, right. It's also interesting. A lot of people have been making the point no one is really being canceled. Like some. Some people are, but like Louis selling out Madison Square Garden. You know what I mean? It's like, who's been canceled? Like, it's.

[A]

Well, also Chappelle has been canceled. The biggest selling comic in the world. You know, it just struck me as I was cancelled, you go, I'm playing 45 countries. It seems fine.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But it's a weird thing where you go, if you looked on, I think the papers would like us to believe, or the news media, that Twitter or X is the same as the news media, is the same as the general public and they're all very different. You've got your. In an increasingly sort of fractured media landscape. You have your audience and they. I remember Bill Burr saying, someone got canceled and he was sort of saying, what are they going to do to me? Take my garage away.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I do the podcast in the garage.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He doesn't have a fancy studio like this. He didn't have all this.

[B]

This is pretty fancy now.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Adam Driver on it was nice. Looks like a real place. We really feels like.

[A]

It really feels like he's hit rock bottom. See, is he okay?

[B]

I'm curious, like what.

[A]

I mean, I'm here, but Adam Driver, Christ, you just would have thought self respect would have prevented it. It's fine. I suppose.

[B]

You'Re not doing bills when you're in town, then. How much of it? How much are you into the thrill? Because there is a thrill to doing a cheeky joke. Does it? Does it?

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Does it blow your hair back?

[A]

Yeah, it's my sense of humor. I mean, I think that's that thing I often quote, actually. My friend Robbie Williams said this thing. He said, I'm an entertainer. He's a singer, right. From the uk. He said, I'm an entertainer in the classic sense. If you don't like me, I don't like me. And I think comedians, we are show business adjacent, right? So we're entertainers, but we want to be liked for us. So it's that thing where you go, well, this is my sense of humor. I think this is funny. I present it to you. Obviously the audience are sort of in charge. We're in the service industry, right. If it doesn't get a laugh, I'm not saying it. I mean, I'll try it a couple of times.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But on the third time, if it gets nothing, I mean, I'm never saying that again. It's. It's done. I'll try and change it and write and it'll be a different joke.

[B]

Right?

[A]

But that thing of going, I have to find it funny. I Have to be able to go, well, I could commit to saying this 300 times.

[B]

Right. And I mean, there's something. There's almost like something shadow worky about it. I don't want to force you into it.

[A]

I think there's no. I think there's something really cathartic. That's what I'm saying for the. For the audience as well, because it's not. There's no problem with censorship in our world. The. The. The call is coming from inside the house. It's self censorship that's kind of going on in our culture at the moment, where you have this. This kind of preference. Falsification. Well, opinion polls don't work anymore, but people know what they're meant to say.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And then they act in a different way. And then people go, well, I'm in an office and we have hr and there's regulations about what you can and can't say. All right? And then I have teenage kids, and I don't want to upset them, and I'm okay. And then they. They come and, you know, see a show and they. They. Or they're at school, kids, and they go, well, I can't say that. School. And then you say it, and it's very cathartic.

[B]

It almost reminds me of like a sci fi story. It's like we live in a world where it's like, yes, because everyone's hitting yes and everyone's hitting no. And, yeah, it's very like sort of 1984 or whatever. And then you go into this magical little tree place, and then you just, like, weep with laughter. And taking my wife to see Bill Burr. I've said this a million times, but it was an impactful moment for me. He's doing a joke that I know she disagrees with. The premise of the joke is something that I know she intellectually and, you know, just does disagree with. And she's dying laughing, just being wicked.

[A]

But don't you. Don't you like that thing of, like, the. My favorite noise, I think, in comedy is that cognitive dissonance.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And hearing people laugh and then the sharp intake of breath. It's got to be that way round.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I wrote a lot of stuff that was just the sharp intake of breath.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you go, no. Shocking is great. That's so easy, though.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To just do the shocking. Just to kind of press the button.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's got to be funny enough that it overrides the. You can't say that because your sense of humor gets there first. It betrays you.

[B]

Yes. It happens trans. Rationally.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

You're not processing it. Yeah, it's. And, yeah, what have I done? Yeah.

[A]

And then they're laughing. Go pick a side.

[B]

Yeah. Salty sweet. Yeah. It really is quite magical and really, really fun.

[A]

It's nice. And I do get an incredible thrill out of doing that.

[B]

Well, isn't there something very. For. I'll speak for me. There's something lonely about having these thoughts that we know aren't us not to be hyper spiritual, but you're just. Your brain is just sort of.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so much of that is something you inherited from your culture, from movies, from tv, wherever you got it. And there it is just kind of churning around like change in the dryer. And then you feel so bad that some terrible thought occurs to you in line at a Starbucks and you just thought. And then you feel shame. And then someone like Bill Burr, he did it on Crashing, he goes, who here? If your thoughts were emailed to your whole company, just your thoughts for one day, who would have a job tomorrow? And I was like, that's. There's something that ministers to people about that. You're screaming like, I know we're all wearing pants and we're all being. Hello. And we all go with this. And we go to that.

[A]

It is. It is very interesting because it's that thing of like, you go, okay, I do quite edgy jokes, right. And they're obviously edgy. It's edgy subject matter and all of those kind of hot button topics. Right. But there's also. There's the Overton window of what isn't. Isn't acceptable in politics. Right. At any given time. There's the Overton window over there. That's what you can say on the very far left. That's what you say on the far right. And anything beyond that is kind of beyond the pale unacceptable. I think there's also like a social. What is it okay to talk about? And comedy is pushing that. So you could have quite a mild comedian or someone that's very inoffensive, but actually they're talking like Sebastian Maniscalco talking about relationships or Jerry Seinfeld talking about the. The maddening detail of life and the stuff that doesn't make any sense and actually increases what people can talk about or vocalize. So I think that is quite an interesting thing of like, you don't have to just push it in terms of the edge out there. You can push it in other interesting directions or, you know, the stuff that I was With Mark Maron earlier and you go, well, he's got this emotional bandwidth where he's entirely open and honest about his life and in an incredibly sort of vulnerable way. And that again, is very influential to a generation of comics coming through. But also I imagine his audience is important.

[B]

It makes me. It's why I'm doing this. Maren inspired me to be like, oh, you can just play a voicemail from your dad. You know what I mean? Like, it seems so normal now. But when I heard Mark doing it, I was shocked that someone could. Like I said about that joke about my dad, I was like, what if he hears it? And then we're like, what if he hears it? Like, we can't be afraid of our truth, of our feelings.

[A]

Yeah, I think that not self censoring thing and letting the audience decide and you know, occasionally I'll write something and go, I might leave that. I don't know if I don't have any heat right now, at some point I'll need the publicity. I'll say it then. I'll say it then schedule it. Yeah.

[B]

This show is sponsored by Better Help. What is the first thing you would do if you had an extra hour in your day? Maybe go for a nap. Go for a nap or take a jog. Maybe play Xbox. Maybe watch the Last of Us. If you don't want to play the Last of Us. Something showing up for a friend is another good example. A lot of us wish we had more time. The question is, time for what? If time was unlimited, what would you do with it? I'm going to say the best way to squeeze that special thing into your schedule is to know what is important to you and to make it a priority. And therapy can help you figure out what matters most to you so you can do more of it. That is such a great way to reframe how people might be thinking about therapy. Oh, I have to do this. Talk about my problems, talk about this. Talk about my mom. That's part of it. But also just learning about yourself so you can streamline your life for the maximum bang for your buck for your life. I've gotten so much out of talk therapy. As I always say, it's greater than the sum of its parts. Getting over issues with my family, codependence, getting through rough relationships in the past, thank goodness. Getting out of relationships, navigating breakups. Talk therapy is incredible. And talking to a trained professional makes a huge difference. So if you're thinking of starting therapy, give better help a try. It's Entirely online. Designed to be convenient, flexible and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire and get matched with a licensed therapist. You can even switch therapists at any time for no additional charge. So learn to make time for what makes you happy with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com weirdo today to get 10 off your first month. That's Better Help. H E L p.com weirdo we're also brought to us by our friends at Magic Mind. Of course I have it here on the oh look, it's an empty box of Magic Mind. That's how much I ripped through it. Magic Mind is a productivity super drink. It is incredible. I just got back from Florida. I had it in my carry on. Drank one before every one of the four shows. Well, I usually have one and it lasts for both shows to be honest, because it is about four hours. Five hours of dialed in focus in a bottle. It's a pro productivity drink. It's like athletes have Gatorade now creative people have creator aid. It's Matcha, it's nootropics and it's adaptogens which gets you right in that perfect sweet spot of stimulated by the caffeine, calmed by the adaptogens right there in the middle. And the nootropics help you focus. Help and create. Don't expect wired. Expect dialed in helps fights off procrastination, brain fog, fatigue and some ADD symptoms. Five to seven hours is actually what they say. Five to seven hours of 30% more productivity after drinking. I say four hours because right around there I can fall asleep. So it doesn't keep you up. It's not jittery, but you feel at your optimum dialed in doing what you do, creating, going on a good date, having a good day. Sometimes I drink it when I have absolutely nothing to get done just because I love the way it makes me feel. You guys know I'm serious about it. Always giving it to the guests. Go to MagicMind Co weird and apply my discount code at checkout weird for a limited 20 off your first order. That's MagicMind Co weird. Use discount code weird at checkout for 20 off your first order. All right, everybody back to the show.

[A]

I do think there's. There's a lovely thing about being you sort of go. Being cancelled is like all a bit traumatic and it's not nice for the people close to you, but you sort of go. It is a wonderful filter. You find out who your friends are. It's kind of great. They're a bit painful Maybe at times, but it's like, oh, that's good to know.

[B]

A big, real moment.

[A]

Yeah. Like, who called? You never forget who calls. I always think that's the lesson from it. It's like, call on the day. If someone's going through something or you read in the press or whatever.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Someone's going through a divorce or a tough time or.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Give them a call. That can't be nice.

[B]

Right. That day. Don't be embarrassed.

[A]

It's also that thing of, like, I like calling people and going. I don't know what to say.

[B]

Yeah. Just being there, it's just.

[A]

But you know what the call is.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm gonna try this on stage. There was a friend of mine. This is how. Boston. Boston. As I'm from Boston, a friend of mine, his dad got diagnosed with cancer. So I called him. I called his dad. I'd never called this guy, but he meant a lot to me growing up. He's still alive, by the way.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Growing up with him, he was just a model of a dad, like, just a different kind of dad. He was very present, always asked me, remembered all these things about my life, and followed up, how's comedy? Like, he could really talk about comedy and really meant a lot when I'm out there. Open mic. So I called him and was like, I just want to tell you, you know, you were like another dad to me. And I didn't mention the cancer. I was just like, I just love you. I really love you, and I hope you're doing okay. Just wanted to check in. It was on Father's Day, Right. A couple days later, his son calls me and goes, my father says, you're having a midlife crisis or something. Where I was like, fuck Boston, man. Fuck boss. I can't. Yeah, I love a lot of parts of Boston, but that specific. Like, why is it California to call somebody who is ill and say, I love you? It was so Boston.

[A]

Okay, so in the comments, now we can vote on whether this is a midlife crisis or just an L. A thing. My vote, Midlife crisis.

[B]

People in Boston.

[A]

I called a friend's dad. What are you?

[B]

Queer? Exactly. You want to hear another bit?

[A]

I got very, very, very Boston. Yeah, go on.

[B]

How excited was Boston when queer became the appropriate term? That's like a national holiday in Boston. They never stopped with queer. What are you? Queer? And now they're correct.

[A]

I guess if you stick at it.

[B]

Long enough, just keep going. Just keep ringing the bell.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And people are like, yes, I am queer. Thank you. Thank you very much. He's like this queer. Likes that. I called him a queer.

[A]

They are over the moon. I feel seen.

[B]

Thank you. I feel seen.

[A]

I'm moving to Boston. I feel seen. I'm leaving San Francisco. They keep on calling me gay. I'm going to Boston where people are assum. Respect what I'm about.

[B]

When people get it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yes. Thank you for these tags. I'm taking them.

[A]

Yeah. Wow, that's great.

[B]

Were you queer? I did it in the wrong order because first you establish queer and then you tell the dad's story, and then you call back, what are you queer?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You get it.

[A]

It's very good.

[B]

We just like jokes. Are you doing a set tonight?

[A]

No, I've got the night off. I've. I did two last night in Sacramento, which I very much liked. Oh, really? So I'm trying to sort of do more in the States. I'm trying to kind of not break America, it seems. Yeah, you're doing a perfectly reasonable job of that on your own. But I'm. I'm sort of traveling around trying to do more cities, and I'm loving it. I really love it. I sort of. I said this a while ago, and I do stand by America is objectively fantastic and subjectively the worst place in the world. People think they're having a terrible time. You go, have you been to other places? Yeah, because everyone in India thinks they're doing great. I did gigs in India in. In January, and everyone thinks they're doing great. There's. Yeah, you look around, you go, okay, I don't know where to begin. And America, it's like, oh, my God, things are awful here. We've never been more divided. Ozzy, come and look at India. Come and look at this.

[B]

Shane Gillis has that bit on his new special where he's like, you go to other places and you're like, this is your mall. It's like. This is where you shop. It was like, very, very funny. I'm glad. So you're not. You're not trying to become us famous. You're trying to become real famous.

[A]

Famous, yeah. This is where it began. No, but it's that thing where you go. Actually, I am sort of trying to do more here because I. I'm really enjoying it. I love spending time here. And it feels like, you know, I spent a lot of time in New York and LA over the years just kind of messing around. I can't be bothered with any more meetings. I'm not trying to be quite stoic. I like being stand up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's enough.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you go, stop auditioning for jobs you don't want. And it takes a while in show business to go. There's so many distractions. There's so many other things you could be doing. And it's that thing of. My friend George Mack came up with this thing recently, which I loved. He said, happiness is your standard of living, minus envy.

[B]

Wow. Oh, wow.

[A]

That's a mic drop. That's so good, isn't it? Because you kind of go, oh, yeah. The superpower is not caring what they're doing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just going, yeah, I'm doing my thing. It's fine.

[B]

Compare and despair.

[A]

Yes. It's.

[B]

It's absolutely how we're wired. My friend Douglas Soy Tsoi, he has this great question. He's a financial advisor and his big question for all his clients is, where's my money?

[A]

Where's my money? God damn it, where's the money? Shit. Where'd I put the money? I've got a key drive, I think. It's got some bitcoins on it. Shit.

[B]

This is weird. But do you know where your money is? That's what he's always asking his client. Sorry to bother. He says, how much is enough? And I think about it all the time.

[A]

Oh, it's my favorite. One of my favorite stories is. Is the Joseph Heller and Kurt Vonnegut story.

[B]

I don't know it.

[A]

Okay, so Kurt Vonnegut and Joseph are pretty good friends and they're living in New York and they go to a party in the Hamptons and the guy has the mansion from Wolf of Wall street, right? It's having the party. The most beautiful women. They've got Picassos and Monet's on the wall. He's got the Ferraris outside. It's a lavish party. Everyone's there. It's. It's wall to wall celebrity. It's just, it's. It's incredible. And Kurt Vonnegut says to Joseph Heller, this guy made more money last week than you made out of catch 22. And Joseph Heller went, yeah, but I've got something he'll never have. Vonnegut goes, what? And he goes, enough.

[B]

Wow. Can I tell you something? So I just got back. This was the only day you could do. So I was gonna take today off. I'm very happy to be here, but I just did a spiritual retreat. I did a seven day.

[A]

Was it.

[B]

Was it with meditation retreat?

[A]

Was it in the line? The hot yoga guy?

[B]

I'm trying to Roast myself. That guy was a predator.

[A]

He was trying to roast you. He's trying to roast you. What's the other guy doing in here?

[B]

It wasn't with Ram Dass, Ramdas's past. It was with a fellow, a British man named Rupert Spira.

[A]

Was he good?

[B]

He's incredible.

[A]

So what was the. What was it? How long were you on the.

[B]

It was seven days.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It was every day, very simple meditation for an hour. Breakfast meditation, lunch talk, done, two hour talk. He's a non dualist. I'm not going to tell you all about it, but here's the point.

[A]

He's a non dualist for our listeners.

[B]

Yeah. A non dualist is basically Gandhi walks into a pizza shop, make me one with everything. So that kind of cliche. A non dualist is trying to have the experiential knowledge of absolutely nothing being separate. Only God is real if God is infinite. You and I are apparent with the activity of consciousness having the apparent separation to learn, experiment, play, whatever we want to say. But in truth, the awareness looking out your eyes is the same awareness that's looking out my eyes.

[A]

It's all.

[B]

It's all one.

[A]

Yeah. It's a weird thing how, like that level of spirituality, which I'm sort of. I'm interested in to a degree, but not to, you know, I watch a documentary about it. I'm not going for seven days.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The. But that thing of like, it gets quite close to that feeling you get when you chat to a theoretical physicist.

[B]

Oh, very similar, yeah.

[A]

I remember chatting to. I went to lunch with Eric Weinstein and I felt like a bit giddy afterwards about like. Oh, yeah, what happens?

[B]

It's. It's what? That's again. Remember, my passion is when different fields agree with each other, I get really excited as well. So there's a lot of. Here's my point, though. We're in a convent.

[A]

My room was, they don't know we're there.

[B]

They don't know we're there.

[A]

The nuns don't know.

[B]

We're not gonna.

[A]

We've all got convictions.

[B]

Not gonna make a habit of it.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

I do well on a British chat show.

[A]

Puns are great.

[B]

I love puns.

[A]

Thing about puns, you need three in a row to get an applause break. Oh, that's the secret. Never have a pun on it.

[B]

They seemed a little cross that we were there, of course, but by the end we felt like sisters. Anything.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, Great.

[B]

That was fine. That was three.

[A]

It's three. It's good.

[B]

All right. If We, I'm just impressed. I came up with three. We're in a convent. My room was one fifth the size of this. It was the size of a bed. And the bed was tiny. And it was hard, it was uncomfortable. Little flat pillow.

[A]

This is my room.

[B]

There's a, like a college. There's a bathroom that we share in the hallway shower sometimes just turns off. By the way that the shower head came up to here on me because I'm six. Six. Turns off every once in a while. Go scalding hot every time someone flushes the toilet. Food at this retreat, fine, you know, B minus, fine. But we're there and we're the happiest people you would ever see anywhere in the world. This, this idea of happiness. We were, we were finding community. There's huge studies for saying that, like socialization and like eating.

[A]

Yeah. They always do. They always take the wrong thing from those reports. They always go, oh, this is where people live to 100. Yeah. They always go, oh, yeah, because they eat olive oil. No, dummy, it's because they eat together.

[B]

They eat olive oil together. Yeah, absolutely right.

[A]

Nothing to do with the olive oil.

[B]

Hard, healthy olive oil. Or could it be that they're never alone? Yeah, like they're always someone there. Addiction, being tied to isolation, early death, tied to isolation. They say it's.

[A]

I think, I think the opposite of addiction isn't sobriety, its purpose. It always seems to be purpose. Like I give him something to.

[B]

I completely agree. And contribution. So you were talking earlier because you.

[A]

Turned me on to that. Did you turn me on to that book, the, the John Sarno inspired book about alcohol?

[B]

Oh, ah, this Naked Mind.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Did you read it?

[A]

Yeah, I loved it. It was fantastic.

[B]

Off the sauce.

[A]

No, no. I mean, I drink a little bit, but I like it. I really like it.

[B]

You don't have to stop drinking. But it's very interesting.

[A]

But it's that thing of like, I've recommended it to so many people that don't like the 12 step thing. It didn't work for them. They're not going to meetings. It's not their thing. But you go, that John Sarno, the healing back pain thing was really good for me. Yeah, I really love that. If you got back pain, it's like, yeah, okay, that could be. It might be a legit thing. You might have an injury from a car crash or it might be an emotional thing that you need to work through and then it's just going to go, yes. When you, you know, once you get the message, you Hang up the phone.

[B]

Let me tell you this. I started to. We did two today and I started to tell this to John C. Reilly, but I didn't get to the punchline. I went in chewing Nicorette. I just. I like nicotine. It wasn't Nicorette, but you know what I mean? Nicotine.

[A]

Yeah. I just like it.

[B]

I'm kind of an addict kind of guy. It's a mood elevator stimulant, kind of like coffee. I went in chewing it. Day one, I'm chewing it. I just had one piece. Very light for me. I usually had six. Between six and 10 pieces. And like after breakfast with all these people, like minded people, after meditation, getting a deep connection to myself.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like the source. Like, not to be weird, but Jesus called it the spring. There's a spring inside you, and we can take religion out of that. There is a spring inside you. There is a self generating.

[A]

Well, I'm a puppet from Toy Story. 3, 4. I think the callback worked. The.

[B]

I could have let it go.

[A]

You could have, should have.

[B]

I'm gonna add. Should have let it go.

[A]

Well, this is what the edit's for. This is why we rehearse.

[B]

Yeah. When we do this for real, I'll say, right you are. But what was I saying? Oh, spring. That's awareness. That's consciousness. It's a phenomenon. You can tap into it and get in touch with it and it's very peaceful. Like the act, the.

[A]

I got a theory about smoking.

[B]

Oh, let me get the punchline. Day one, I didn't do it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Day seven, I was off it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I was constantly.

[A]

Well, here's my theory about.

[B]

I was mirroring people and being mirrored, being loved, supported.

[A]

Were you? Okay, so my theory is people that like cigarettes, right. They go outside and they do a deep breathing exercise for seven minutes, ten times a day.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's. It's meditation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's lots of things that are meditation that we don't think of as meditation. It's like that thing of, like when you're sat on the bus or the train and you kind of come to and it's your stop.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But there's a bit of your consciousness that was watching for your stop, but then your mind wandered off somewhere else and you're kind of meditating. Why do people like walking in nature? In nature. Because they. They feel like. Or something bigger than me. And they let their mind.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Drift. And it's just very. They're kind of in a flow state. And you go. Well, actually going and doing that breathing three times a day.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You go, well, this might as well be smoking. It's like you're doing most of the hard. I think most of the smoking is the taking a break.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Taking some time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like a prayer ritual.

[B]

I agree, you all, this is Tony Robbins. You also get other things out of it. You get significance because you're a bad boy.

[A]

From cigarettes.

[B]

From cigarettes. Sure, you get an identity. Might not be bad boy identity, but it's definitely bolstering your identity.

[A]

And you felt you needed a bad boy identity. This is right.

[B]

I was. This was just the gum.

[A]

Yeah, just gum. Was bad boy enough for you?

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Like a bad boy in Singapore.

[B]

Feed homes. Bad, bad boy. Bubblegum, bubblegum, bad boy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's my new special. But I'm more just the chemical, so I'm just getting like, literally a dopamine boost. It's like pushing a button for dopamine.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So mine was just more pure, just the chemical, just addiction, but the community and also learning to invest. This is one more non dual thing. Okay. Just because I think you might like it. It's like we are all of our experiences happening in a field of consciousness. Right. This idea, it's appearing and non dual practice is exploring the nature of that consciousness. When. Who am I? When you take experience away from me, if you take your sights, your sounds, your feelings, what remains? And then the second question is, what is the nature of that space? It's like removing everything from this room. If we took all the furniture out, what is just the empty room like? What is your empty awareness like? And the answer is, and I'm not just telling you this, you can do it and look for yourself. It's like peace, it's joyful. This is why those monks on those Greek islands are living so long, is they've. They've dug a well, you know what I mean, into that space.

[A]

Yeah. I love that story in the air all day that you had about the guy with Timothy Leary and Ramdes going off to India, finding the guru and giving them a ton of lsd.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And the guy going, man, fine. No, that's where I live.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

I'm there all the time.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And what's the. The analogy? You don't need to. You don't need to take to Detroit when you're in Detroit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's kind of great.

[B]

Yeah. There's so much. And Richard Rohr would say, in religion, we're worshiping signposts. The sign says Detroit 10 miles that way. So it's the Bible, it's the church, it's a person, it's a teacher, and we all gather around to worship that instead of just going to Detroit.

[A]

Yeah, I thought the, the sports analogy was fantastic.

[B]

The run with the ball.

[A]

Yeah, it's a really good. Do your thing. Yeah. But struck me as very kind of but gettable.

[B]

I'm glad that you picked up on that because that is. To me, what is missing from religion is it's about you. It's about your.

[A]

I felt like that could be a bit stand up.

[B]

Say what?

[A]

Oh, the, the football analogy. Like it needs something, but it's like, like it feels like it's got the.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

This is what I took from it.

[B]

Okay, I'll look back at that.

[A]

Kind of pass me the ball and then you got to do your thing. Right.

[B]

For those of you, for the millions of you who haven't read my books, Jesus is like a football player and he's running and he gets tackled at the 10 yard line and the ball spits out, it's a fumble. And you pick it up and you're on Jesus's team. And instead of running with the ball, you just start clapping for Jesus and it's like you're supposed to run with the ball. Like you're supposed to keep the whole thing. Now we're talking about the meaning of the universe is moving forward, it's arcing in a direction and you are part of it. It's not just about, oh, now I'm preaching, but it's not just about like celebrating. Pick your person. Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad. It's not just about that. They're avatars for us. They're symbols to transform us. Because we transform from symbols, words and ideas. Me telling you consciousness, that's not. Doesn't really get you there. It's like you need to fall in love with a symbol and a person and a story. But then at that point you need to pick it up and continue the story because it's you. Who the else could it be about? Yeah, you.

[A]

It's interesting. It's that thing of the, the idea of kind of grief. The idea of like going, well, I don't know about you, but like grief now to me kind of reminds me that this is it. This is like. Because grief is like cumulative, right? It's all the grief. The, you know, the dog dies, you're in bits because it's. You remember, oh, my mother died and my friend died and my, you know, there's People close to you and you love and you miss them all, and you go, oh, no, I'm gonna die. I'm gonna have to say goodbye at some stage. You go, well, it's this brief shaft of light. And everyone seems so obsessed by what happens afterwards, but no one thinks about what happened before.

[B]

Yeah, before death.

[A]

No, before birth.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

No one thinks of that. End of the telescope.

[B]

Yes. It's the other side of the door.

[A]

It's. It's a. It's a. Yeah. Shaft of light. But the. Who had the quote was. Mark Twain had the quote. The. I wasn't alive for 8 billion years before my birth, and it didn't inconvenience me in the least.

[B]

Yeah, right. Well, that's in the book, too. When I was briefly atheist, people were like, where were you before you were born? You didn't. It didn't hurt and you didn't mind.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's a beautiful idea. Of course, If I do explain, isn't that the.

[A]

The thing written on Christ's cross? The inr.

[B]

I think that's King of the. Here lies the King of the Jews.

[A]

I thought. No, no, it's an old Roman thing, really. It means. It means. I think it says in Latin, I was not. I was. I am not. I do not care. No, yeah, it's. It's I, R, N, A something.

[B]

Yeah. Henry.

[A]

Or.

[B]

Yeah, maybe.

[A]

It'S an old. Sort of. The Romans used to put it on their.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

On their stones. Yeah.

[B]

My. My.

[A]

Full of something.

[B]

My fun fact is this is fully God, fully man and the. And the Trinity. That's what somebody told me. That's why he's doing that. I always thought in the icons. He's going, I know, I know. I'm here.

[A]

What's he saying? Relax.

[B]

Fully God, fully man. So the. The two. The fully two states of Christ, and then this is the Trinity. That's what somebody told me.

[A]

Is he okay?

[B]

I thought it was.

[A]

Whoa. It's not. It's definitely not some white power thing. Has he ever made me do something terrible?

[B]

A new shocker. Oh, no.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

So where are you with that stuff? Because it's. You sounded like you resonated with what I was trying to do, which was saying, do you think Ricky Gervais would like my joke, by the way, when I make fun of him?

[A]

Which one? Especially?

[B]

I go, it's a metaphor.

[A]

Ego.

[B]

You really believe a talking snake gave a naked lady an apple? And I go, jesus Christ. It's a metaphor, Ricky. I wasn't thinking that. He would see it. But I was like, oh, you might see it. I was just, you know, all fair play. You know what I mean? You're an Irishman. Fair play to you. It's all in bounds. I love Ricky Gervais, but I'm just saying, like, can we please have a slightly more nuanced conversation? Because some people that believe or have some sort of faith structure and tell me if this is what you related to, are looking at metaphors or looking at stories to talk about something that's quite ineffable.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, there's some people. I think the. Well, I mean, listen, we've talked about all things theological. I think the big mistake was Vatican ii, wasn't it? That's the big mistake. Because there's a brilliant book by Ian McKilchrist about the left brain and the right brain called the Master and His Emissary, as the idea that we live in a world that is dominated by the left brain. Right. It's very sort of structured and it's lists. And we have this incredible ability to break things down. And that ability to break things down and see how they work is only surpassed by our ability to see the whole thing. And it's not that the left and the right brain do different things. They do the same thing, but in different ways. And the emissary is the left brain. And it doesn't realize that there's a master. It doesn't realize that the right brain is seeing the whole thing. So you go, what Vatican II did is it sort of went, okay, translate it into local languages and people can understand it. But that wasn't. Because then it became like, well, even just nonsense, right? The story is nonsense. Stand up. It's. It's not real. That can't be real.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But when it was in Latin and there was lots of stuff being wafted around and it was just a bit.

[B]

Symbols had a chance.

[A]

The big mystery. Yeah, it was just the. Just the mystery.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Just the kind. Can you sit and go, well, I don't know. Yes, fine. If you're comfortable with that, that's fine. I'm not. I'm sort of not searching for anything. I'm fine not knowing.

[B]

Yeah. And that's what it was, was a big. I don't know. When I was a kid, that didn't make any sense. I was like, why are they talking in Latin? They should be explaining this to us, you know, so that didn't make any sense. But now that I'm older and I don't know Room sounds pretty great.

[A]

Yeah, it's like. It's quite nice when you go and sit in those. Those spaces. I mean, I kind of. I miss religion. I. I'm. I suppose I would be. I'm an atheist in that I don't believe in the fairy tales, but I see a purpose to it, and I'm not. I'm not particularly searching for anything. I think I found that the awe of nature, whatever, in kids and sort of friendships and just. Just being.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just kind of like, I just. Just enjoying the passage of time seems to be enough.

[B]

Yeah. Well, that's lovely. I think that's a great. You don't need my approval, but I'm.

[A]

Giving it to you. Thanks very much.

[B]

Do you think. Have you had the experience of doing stand up and. And when you watch us merge, they're feeling like there's something, for lack of a better word, something kind of magical about that, Something natural about human beings forgetting themselves and blurring?

[A]

Well, I think it's like increasingly, I think people want to go and see something, live like they. They. You know, whether it's a music festival or a comedy show or something, to experience that where you can be in the room with other people. And I don't know if they're consciously thinking, I want to go and do that, but I find myself as well. I want to go and see. I saw. I was in Paris a week ago. I saw Depeche Mode in Paris. Oh, wow. It was genuinely a spiritual thing. I mean, most of their songs are kind of religious anyway, but you go, yeah. The core response of it and the whole way that he conducted it and. And it was like seeing a preacher. It was like, really. But it really kind of filled the hole. It was really beautiful thing to see. I was very conscious of it in the moment.

[B]

Did people keep thinking you were Billy Corgan?

[A]

I think I've ever had Billy Corgan.

[B]

You've never gotten Billy Corgan before?

[A]

No.

[B]

Billy Corgan with a wig.

[A]

I'll take it.

[B]

He's a bald guy.

[A]

I'll take it.

[B]

You can have it.

[A]

Are you talking with a wig? Smashing Pumpkins.

[B]

How are the Pumpkins?

[A]

They're smashing. We can't call the band Terrific Pumpkins. Presumably a conversation they had at some point. Listen, we're all big fans of Gaffigan. What are we going to call the band?

[B]

Gaffigan?

[A]

Isn't Gaffigan the guy that used to. Am I getting the name right? The guy that used to smash up the water.

[B]

Oh, Gallagher. Near enough.

[A]

I don't Nitpick.

[B]

I'm proud that I didn't pretend to get it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Will you tell me briefly about neuro linguistic programming? Because we didn't talk about that last.

[A]

That's like I, I did, I did quite a lot of that when I was in my mid-20s. Just kind of when I made that career transition. And it sort of. The idea of it is the map is not the territory. The idea that you've, you've got kind of presuppositions about life in your mind. Yeah. So you've got like the beliefs that you don't even see, like the fish don't see the water. You don't see that. You have these beliefs about what you can do and what you can't do, but they'll absolutely dictate your life. And so the idea of kind of removing those and sort of it's, I suppose, you know, in its most simplistic sense, the idea of like disposition is more important than position. Right. So you can try and change the world. It's very difficult. Or you could try and change how you see the world and changing how you see the world and how you talk to yourself and think of like the most important relationship you're ever going to have is kind of how you talk to yourself. And some people are so mean to themselves. You kind of go, wow, you, you like, you're so compassionate to everyone else and you never cut yourself any slack.

[B]

Right. Can I tell you something? I had a. I had a vasectomy. It doesn't matter. So I had a small surgical procedure and then I was very small. I heard.

[A]

Why not? It was right there. It feels like we needed low hanging fruit. Low hanging fruit? Yeah. Checking into the hotel.

[B]

Ring the bell, end for the. I don't know. I'm out, I'm out. All right, so I had a little scar and it didn't hurt at all. I was like the poster child for a vasectomy. Meaning no pain, no problem. It was incredible. I go to a dinner, it's like maybe the day after, and somebody brings up this altercation I had with my dad. This story. It's kind of a funny story, but as I'm telling it, it's not funny to me. It's the story of like my dad hurting my feelings. And as I'm telling it, the punchlines are me kind of being like. And of course he says it.

[A]

He doesn't even know.

[B]

And I'm, you know, kind of letting it out. I hadn't had any pain yet. It started really Throbbing. As soon as I started, like, allowing.

[A]

I like any story where you're at a dinner party and your cock starts throbbing. I mean, this is. It feels. It feels off brand for you, but I like it. I like where this is going, Joe.

[B]

That's not the clip.

[A]

Feels like that's the clip.

[B]

That's not the clip.

[A]

So. So let's get back to it. So you're at a dinner party, your cock is throbbing while I'm talking about.

[B]

My dad, of course.

[A]

What could make more sense?

[B]

But don't you see? Like, I'm not talking about positive thinking. I'm talking about, like, even the story of, like, this time I had been hurt, had my feelings hurt, changed my biochemistry. So imagine what your own narrative, your own voice is doing. Not just as like a woo woo, the secret manifest.

[A]

Never mind the woo woo. I broke my wrist, okay, a while back on a quad bike or something silly. And they, they put it in a cast. You kind of go, what. What are we. What are we doing with this doctor? And then glue it back together. They don't. There's no screw that goes into it. They just go, yeah, we can put in a cast and they'll fix itself. Yeah, that's what your body does.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, okay. Wow. You. That's where medical science has got to. We'll put it in a cast. It fixes itself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Yeah, that should tell you something about, like, the, The. The amount of kind of what we do that's not conscious that we can sort of fix all these things and.

[B]

Getting out of the way. And some of the things that are in the way are the stories we're telling about ourselves. The. The postscript to that story is now when I talk about my dad, it's been a life shift for me. I. When my dad comes up, I talk about. And people who listen to this podcast have heard me working it out, the dynamic with my family. Now I've gotten to a place, I'm going to be 45 this month. My dad comes up. I'm like, he took. He takes over a room. He's one in a million. You know what I mean? I'm not just doing a snow job. If you want to talk about the other. The blind spots, we can. But my default. So now when I see a text from him or whatever, it's a different association because I'm telling a different story. And either are viable choices, but I'm making a choice that. That is more resonant with the frequency I'm going for.

[A]

If that makes Sense. It really does make sense.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's an interesting thing of, like, going. That thing of going. At what point do you leave that stuff behind? I remember J.K. rowling saying this amazing thing about the statute of limitations on childhood trauma and saying, look, if you're 21 and you say, I had a really rough childhood, it's like, it's pretty legitimate. Right. If you're 25 and you say, I had a. Listen, I'm. I'm this way. But the reason I'm being an ass is because I had a really rough childhood. So, okay, at what stage does it get ridiculous? I mean, 45.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But the answer is somewhere at some point, you kind of go, well, all of that happened, but at some stage, I need to take responsibility. And that thing of, like, agency seems to be something that we're not. I mean, you sort of can't give people agency. But it's. It's a weird thing, isn't it? Like, someone gave me a definition recently of entitlement that I thought was really sort of useful, which was, like, where you are now and where you want to be, if you want to do something about that, that's ambition. If you think that's someone else's problem, that's entitlement. I thought it's a very clear way of saying. Because I always thought of entitlement, as. I know, maybe a problem for very wealthy people that inherited money or something.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, oh, he seems very entitled. But you go, no, actually, it's pushing it out and saying, well, no, you've got control over this. There's nothing I can do about it.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

But you go, actually, you want people to have. That's what you want for people. You want them to have the agency to go and do something.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting to. That statute of limitations for, for trauma. A factor is how much have you dealt with it? Because you could be 65, 75, 85, and it would be legitimate to still have it because you haven't faced it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's almost like a call to face it. But that's exciting. That can be hard to talk about. But, like, I'm one of those people that you, You. You tell me those strategies to kind of get at it. That's exciting. I'm like, I like advice. Some people don't want that advice, and they'll feel diminished in some way. I guess for some people, it's just too painful.

[A]

It's like, too painful to look at, you know? Also, you know, I. I had some Issues in childhood. But not. It's nothing. You read about what some people went through. You read some of these biographies, you go, jesus, yeah, how'd you get through that? But it's. It seems people do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Somehow. And they go, well, I'm not going to let that define me.

[B]

Right. Yeah.

[A]

And that, that kind of thing of, you know, trauma. It's kind of an overused word actually. Brennan's got a great bit in the new special about it. But that thing of like going, well, you want to kind of. You don't want it to define like it's only trauma if it changes the way you think about that thing forever.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Otherwise it's just something that happened.

[B]

And so what is neuro linguistic programming? It's specifically giving yourself new ways to talk to.

[A]

Yeah. New ways of like changing your language, changing your kind of, you know, changing the way that you think about things. Whether you remember things in a. What's a good example? Okay. So you can, you can remember something in an associated or disassociated way. Okay. So if you remember something and it's through your eyes and you're in the room when you remember it, and you can smell what the smells were in the kitchen and you can see who was there and you, you. It's a very vivid memory and you get the feeling back and you're there again. Right. That's a lot. Very good for good memories, very bad for bad memories. It's like that's what a phobia is. You're remembering it through your own eyes. You're remembering the perceived threat and you're having this experience if you disassociate. So you imagine, okay, that thing happened. I'm remembering it, but I'm remembering myself in the corner of the room, looking down and looking dispassionately. And I'm not. There's no sensory memory. I'm just looking at the thing dispassionately. It's a very distant way of looking at the world. And this is now one. One is like on the spectrum. You're not involved at all in your own life. You're kind of watching it. And one is life as opera. Right. So it's saying, well, don't code every memory the same. Don't. Don't have the traumatic stuff, see from a distance. Take the lesson from it, whatever that is, and move on. And the stuff that's fantastic. Enjoy it and remember it and enjoy, enjoy that thing again.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

It's just a way of like going, well, why wouldn't you recode your memories. Why wouldn't you say, well, all the traumatic stuff, I'm going to remember that in black and white. And you can do it. There's no one is making a decision about what goes on in your head and how you remember stuff.

[B]

Yes. Yes.

[A]

So would you go with you some hurtful school bully who is a dick?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Make them small.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Make them further away. And it sounds ridiculous in a sense.

[B]

But how are my work?

[A]

It just works.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I might not work for everyone as well. I always think that thing of. It's. It's like the. The different type. What a therapist should have to tell you when you first go to a therapist is, oh, you know, there's 50 different types of therapy and this one might not be for you. They should have to say that by law at the beginning of every session.

[B]

That's great.

[A]

Are you sure you want to do this therapy? Because this is Freudian. It's going to be 10 years. I'm going to tell you. It's your mum. Okay, that sounds like a waste of time. I'm not interested in that. But what I am, you know, but cognitive behavioral therapy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, it's like just literally go online and read cognitive behavioral therapy and read the thought patterns.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that fixes 90 of it. Just kind of go, oh, yeah, that magic. That's magical thinking. Oh, I'm doing magical thinking constantly.

[B]

Yes. Oh, yes.

[A]

Well, that's interesting.

[B]

Wow. You know what that reminds me of? Who tells you you can't think of your memories, your traumas? It's very Tony Robbins, by the way. He does that. It's like if your boss, Tony Robbins.

[A]

Uses a lot of NLP and he says, yeah, that's what. That's kind of the base code for.

[B]

Totally thing in the morning.

[A]

I do just like him because he's tall. He's.

[B]

We're the same height. I think it's. He's an inch taller. Anyway, in the morning, I relive my positive memories from a. In your body. And he's coaching you to be in your body. And then he. He's like, if your boss yells at you, he's like, replay it as a cartoon. Replay it backwards. Replay it at double speed, like just making it more and more absurd to kind of get your nervous system a little bit out of it. But what it reminds me of, like, who is policing how you think about your trauma to make yourself cope better and feel better? No one. It reminds me of. This is a real thing. If I'm reading A book. And let's say I unearmarked the page and I read one page, two pages. I'll go back and re. Earmark where I earmarked it. For what? For fear that someone is going to find my book and go. He only read one page because they'll see the old one page.

[A]

I don't know why I'm here.

[B]

It's been real. It was you the whole time. You may.

[A]

What is it? Water.

[B]

That, that, that regular water.

[A]

I can't imagine it would do me any home.

[B]

Go ahead. That has allergic to cucumber and lime. I don't think a real cucumber or real lime went anywhere near that.

[A]

Christ, it's delicious. Okay, well, let's do the ads. We've got to do some ad reads, haven't we? It's a podcast. This is the longest.

[B]

Yeah, we've put out an ad. No hello fresh.

[A]

No hello fresh. Who do you advertise? Who do you.

[B]

Well, modern mammals.

[A]

This.

[B]

This actually is my favorite shampoo. I like off mic chat.

[A]

Like your favorite shampoo.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Someone's. Someone's gone to you and gone. What's this? This is what we need to get involved with. Who we got online to Gwyneth Paltrow. No, I want Pete Holmes.

[B]

Gimme Holmes.

[A]

He's got one of those little cowlicks at the front. Delightful.

[B]

People love it. People love it. But that's, that's a sponsor and so is this magic mind.

[A]

You should drink that. Magic, Magic mind.

[B]

Little matcha, little nootropics, little adaptogens. Calms you down, speeds you up a little bit and helps you think.

[A]

Yeah. If you've got seven days for you to go on a retreat, have one of these. I'm busy. I'm a working man. I can't be doing that.

[B]

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[A]

It's a very interesting conversation. I think that thing of like for me something like NLP and cognitive behavioral therapy really replaced religion in my life. Almost like an addiction going, well, I'm not going to be addicted to nothing. I'm going to be addicted to the gym or to cooking or whatever. Whatever the thing is. Yeah, I think it really was like that kind of not. And also they talk a lot about it, about going, look, these things aren't true. It's just a presupposition. Will your life be better if you believe this or worse.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And going, what's a very interesting way of kind of looking at it? And going, well, no one really knows. Yeah, but let's see if this works for you, then. Great.

[B]

Do you know Byron, Katie, the work? No, it's really wonderful. I can walk you through it really fast. But if it even sounds remotely interesting, I highly recommend it. If you have a negative experience, negative belief, you do a little journaling just to get to the core. Like, what is the wound saying? Like, you could say something like, my father hurt my feelings because he doesn't care about me, or he doesn't know me. That's a better one. My father doesn't even understand me. And then you do these things. You go, is that true? My father doesn't understand me. Is it true? And let's say you're angry. And you go, yeah. The second question is, can you be sure that that's true? And you're like, well, you know, if you've been honest, you're like, I don't know what other people understand.

[A]

The third question is, motherfucker, gun to your head, is it true?

[B]

What does. What does Marcellus Wallace look like? Is the third question, does he look.

[A]

Like trying to fuck him?

[B]

Does he look like a. Is the fourth question, why are you trying to fuck him? Say what again is the turnaround? And then you shoot. Then you shoot the person.

[A]

Yeah, it's a. It's a wonderful piece of fault fiction. Yeah.

[B]

The third question is, how does it make you feel when you believe that it's true? And this is really important because you do an inventory. You go, I feel lonely. I feel sad. I feel misunderstood. I feel neglected. I feel sad, I feel angry. How would you feel if you didn't believe it? This is. This is all. She's not a neuroscientist, but it's all neuroscience. You're just exploring the possibilities. You go, well, I would feel happy, I would feel light, I would feel connected, I'd feel free. I'd feel excited about my dad. And then you turn it around. You. You go, meaning, let's look at the opposite. My dad does understand me. And then you list three ways that that's true. That's called the turnaround. And you go, well, he raised me. He. This like, specific examples of when he demonstrated his understanding of me. He got me that thing for my birthday. He calls me this. We know these stories, we have these experiences, all this stuff, but as specific as you can be. And you find other ways to turn around. Like, I don't understand my dad. You know what I mean? Then you find other beliefs, like my dad should demonstrate his understanding to me of me in a way that I consider appropriate. Is that true? Are you the arbiter of how people should demonstrate understanding? Maybe he is showing his understanding in his way. You see, you're just full of shit. The practice is I'm full of shit.

[A]

Well, that seems very unkind. I came on this show in good faith.

[B]

Does that sound at all interesting or similar?

[A]

No, I mean, it sounds like. Yeah, it's a very. There's a kind of practice that they do where they're kind of you, you kind of go outside of yourself and look at yourself. And it's a very sort of similar thing of like, why is that really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Are you sure you're feeling it? It's very hot. You try and make it colder.

[B]

Yeah. And what's the result of it?

[A]

That's what I hear. It's interesting, that thing of. I remember someone saying to me, and I just thought it was a great line. I think often these things of like aphorisms or quotes, there's something magical about them because it's, it's a wisdom that's lasted so long that everything around it's gone. Everything that wasn't important is burnt away and just this little thing remains. And someone just said to me, just accept the apology you're never gonna get and move on. I thought, oh, yeah, that's. That's pretty good.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

That'll do.

[B]

I love that. I, I, I'm sure you've heard revenge. No. Unforgiveness is like drinking a poison and hoping that the person you're mad at will get sick.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's just killing you. It's the same thing. Lily Tomlin had a great line about it, too. It doesn't matter. Let me ask you this and we'll wrap up because, you know, you're chatting with Marc Maron. Now you're talking to me. Get on with your day.

[A]

Getting all this done.

[B]

You're banging it out.

[A]

Yeah, it's good.

[B]

On the Real Famous tour.

[A]

Proper famous. American famous.

[B]

Proper famous.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We won't know what that means. Hot dogs falling out of our mouth. That's a. Admit it.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

You are always such a refreshing. I love your perspective. That's what I'll say. AI comes up, the state of the thing. Do you have a take? Do you have a feeling about AI? Where we're arcing towards. Yeah. With artificial.

[A]

I'm worried about it. It's a Covers band.

[B]

It's a what?

[A]

It's a covers band.

[B]

A covers band.

[A]

Beatles aren't worried about the counterfeit Beatles, are they? Paul McCartney's not waking up in the middle of night going, hang on, they're covering our songs. That's all AI is at the moment. It's just spitting back a zotz kind of. Okay. So it can sort of write jokes but they're sort of pre written jokes that it's just lifted from elsewhere.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's just taken every comedy special and gone, oh well I can take a bit of that and a bit of that and a bit of that. So it spits back stuff and you go, oh, that. I hadn't seen that one before. I haven't. Or I'd forgotten that one. So it might seem new.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I had a joke about it about how, you know, I'm not worried that people are worried about AI taking their jobs, but I'm not. It's going to be a long time before chat GPT can do what I do every night and go out. Yeah. When's it going to sexually assault someone? You set that so beautifully. The. But that thing of going it. There's the trail. I kind of feel the same about China. People worry about China. I go, yeah, covers, bad covers banned.

[B]

Just following the.

[A]

What have they. I mean gunpowder. Yes. There's a long time ago. What have they brought to the party recently? It's kind of straight lift, like. Oh, they've got their version of Google, they've got their version of Alibaba which is like their equivalent of buying something on Etsy or whatever it is. They've got like their version of everything.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But they're not generating anything new. I think that thing of like America for better, for worse is this sort of powerhouse of ideas and new things and it's exciting and people come up with ideas and follow through with them. I think, you know, the conversation we're having is quite a sort of metaphysical religious conversation. You go about artificial intelligence. Intelligence isn't that impressive. Consciousness is very impressive because there are complex problems and there are complicated problems. It's complicated to put a man on the moon. Give me complicated all day. It's just the next step. It's the left brain. It's lots and lots of things in a row and no matter how many things in a row we know what comes next. Complex. It's impossible to know, is there a God? What happens after we die? Which sports team will win? It's complex, not complicated. And AI is very good at the complicated. And I think we'll simplify our lives and I think it will get rid of a lot of jobs, but I think quite mundane jobs and it'll create new jobs. Being a podcaster wasn't. Right. This wasn't a thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

10 years ago. Now we can't even imagine what's going to be a job in 10 years time.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But there's going to be. Other things will come along.

[B]

Right.

[A]

We're always like. I always think of that thing of like, it's very difficult for us. We always think we're finished, society's finished, we're done. And it always surprises us that it isn't.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That things move on and we look back on when they had coaches and buggies and cobbled streets in New York and go, oh, but it's finished now.

[B]

Right. Right. There's a narcissism to that, isn't there?

[A]

Of course there's a. There's a. Well, it's that thing of like, we just have a massive bias for now. But I think that thing I like going. We need to be generous a little bit in terms of going, you know, both spatially and temporally about. Well, actually, this is. It's a process and we keep on coming up with stuff.

[B]

Yes. I think you can't underestimate. That was brilliant. It's exactly what I wanted. You're a true professional and a delight. I. I think you can't underestimate humans. Unsatisfiability, for lack of a better word. Insatiability is the word meaning. We make tools. They're incredible. But we are so restless. Our zeal, like our deeply human.

[A]

I wonder, I wonder, did we get that from the Greek? Greeks?

[B]

Tell me.

[A]

The Greeks were terrified of being the Egyptians. Wow. The Egyptians built a culture, they built the pyramids, they built a life for themselves. And then they just stopped and they just rolled.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For 4,000 years.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Didn't do anything. And the Greeks saw that other great culture and it had sort of memories of it and it. We can't do that. We've got to do something. So there's something that comes from those, those earliest kind of days of what we would consider civilization. But the idea of going, we can't do that.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

We've got to build. We've got to do something new. We've got to do something new. So that going. I mean, I'm. I'm a big fan of that book, the Beginning of Infinity.

[B]

I haven't read it.

[A]

Which is about the idea that the Scientific meme is. Is this incredible tool. So the beginning of affinity that he posits that the. There's been 100 billion people so far. There's 8 billion people alive today. There could be trillions in the future. If we go to another planet. It's like a dizzying idea of going, if we get off here, if we manage to let science go, take us where it will take us, the possibilities are endless. Wow. And it's like this beautiful sort of thought.

[B]

I heard Elon Musk talking about how the planet is perfect for leaving it. Like he's like, I don't think it's a coincidence that everything is just right on this planet. It's unique to make it livable. I just thought that was interesting.

[A]

I think he has slightly the wrong idea. Tell me what I think Elon Musk is. Someone is pointing at the moon and he's staring at their finger. He's trying to get to Mars.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't think, I don't think we get anywhere with conventional power. I don't think we get anywhere in a spacecraft. I think. I don't sound like a crazy hippie, but I was chatting to Eric Weinstein about this. I think it's going to be about a new physics folding the paper. Yeah. It's good. It's going to be about that. And it's gonna, it's like a trippy thing of going, what's power? Right. Why is this an interesting idea to talk about? Well, what's power? It's not, it's not money or arms or armies. It's like splitting the atom. That's. That's power.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's changed everything. And there's been no development, as Eric keeps on saying. There's been no development in physics since. For 50 years. What's the next thing that comes along? What's the. What's. What's going on? Someone's working on something. And all of these stories about aliens, whatever you believe, it's interesting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Either they're already here and they didn't get here flying long haul.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because there's nowhere close. Right. Or they already have this technology. Or we're working on something. I think the idea that we're working on something seems pretty plausible. If I was, if I was a government, I'd be putting all of my money into physics because physics is the thing that has paid out more than anything else over time.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

It's the thing that has delivered our whole modern world. It doesn't get the, the attention that it deserves.

[B]

That's really interesting. And so we're working on the technology that would become the alien technology. Like it's us.

[A]

I, I presume. Yeah. That we're. There was a, there's a big. There's a theory that all of the alien stuff is akin to. In the Second World War, there was the D Day landings. Right. So we had this plan. Land D Day. We can do this, get back in, get the Germans.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So they couldn't let the Germans know we were coming. So there was a story that was put out there that was to distract. So something similar to that is going on. Could that be the case?

[B]

I mean, you mean like a snow job? Like, look at this. While we're really changing the fabric of space time. Yeah, yeah. And bending time and bending space. And I mean, that would. It's, it's very compelling. Have you heard that, I'm sure you have the theory that aliens are us from the future, like checking up on us.

[A]

Yeah. I mean that thing of like. Or the idea that the, the world was sort of seeded by.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Aliens or whatever. Yeah. I mean, there's, there's a. Yeah. I don't really, I don't. I think, I think there is the fossil record to kind of back up that it wasn't how we got. Well, that, you know, it's the, it's the three humiliations of man, isn't it? Are you aware of that?

[B]

No.

[A]

There's been three humiliations for man. Copernicus was the first. We thought we were at the center of the universe. We're not. We're not. We're just like, we're. The sun is the center of our little, little bit. And we're not even the center of that bit. Okay. And then Darwin, we thought we were above the animals.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We're same as them. We came from them. Oh. With it. Say ah. All right, so we're not the center of universe and we're just the same as animals. Okay. But at least we've got our minds. Freud. Oh, it's just the tip of the iceberg. Your consciousness.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Everything else is going on in the subconscious.

[B]

90. You, you.

[A]

It's the, it's the, it's that weird thing where you, you're, you're the, you think you're, you're the monkey on an elephant. The elephant's in charge. You think you are.

[B]

Yes, thank you. Yes. For that image. Right. I was just reading that yesterday morning. It was like the, the, it wasn't about the three humiliations. I love that. But it was just like, can you even just take in that 90% of your behavior is unconscious, not just subconscious, like you could find it, like it's unconscious.

[A]

Well, I. I feel that thing about, like, luck. Sorry, it's slightly tangential to this, but I think it's kind of a point worth making. Like, we see certain types of luck and we don't see others. So we see Barbie Oppenheimer, I think, is a good example. Right. So we see Barbie Luck. She's incredibly beautiful. She mug a Rob who's born that way. She's. She lucky. No one ever goes, oh, Oppenheimer was born with an IQ of 180 and a work ethic that's entirely heritable. No one ever thinks that.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

They go, well, that's. That wasn't luck. That was hard work. And he applied himself. That was luck. But you go. And that weird thing of, like, going. I mean, it's. Maybe it's a misogynistic thing, but people can't see how good Margot Robbie is because they just see the beauty, Right. And they can't see the. What she does.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because it's sort of blinded by it. And then the. Or the. Or the Cillian Murphy thing. I mean, the idea that, like, there's so many. How many newspaper articles were written about Margot Robbie being underweight in that movie? How few were written about Cillian Murphy being underweight in that movie?

[B]

Yeah. Right. Completely valid and bizarre.

[A]

So weird.

[B]

And it is just a different kind.

[A]

And the luck, that thing of, like, gratitude is the mother of all virtue. How grateful are we? Like, how grateful should we be? We grew up in this time, in this. We're here, we get to be comedians. We, you know, get to do this. It's like, it's all wonderful, but we're standing on. It's like there's. There's luck on luck. That we were born in these years, that we. That we've. That America is so blessed that it's, you know, kind of the last 70 years been incredible.

[B]

Yeah, that is. Do you do gratitude? It seems like you do.

[A]

Yeah, I try. I mean, as much as I possibly can.

[B]

She just told me it's been 90 minutes.

[A]

Yeah, she's. She's. She's grateful this is over.

[B]

Katie's gonna do a gratitude practice.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That we've stopped solving the world's problems.

[A]

Is it such a love? I mean, can I just say before we call it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I'm such a big fan of the book. It's just exceptional. I really really enjoyed it. And it felt like a bit like this. It felt like spending time with you so, so authentically in your voice. I just adored it. The last special as well, I thought was just superb. I loved it. I thought it was like, it was so funny. And then it. You earned the right to make like three brilliant points about God and spirituality and life. And it was like, yeah, absolutely. And they were funny and it was poignant and it was. It was really beautiful. It's very inspirational to. To what? I just, I loved it and I wanted to just. I just wanted to practice gratitude and say thank you.

[B]

I really, I didn't know that this was what I was hoping for. As it's happening, I'm like, this is exact from a comedian that I so respect and admire. And you saying it and really seeing what I was going for feels fantastic. What a gift. Thank you. Thank you. And the book, if people like my book, I'm always like, you almost can't believe it. You know, you've written books. When people like your book, it's like.

[A]

It feels like it's personal. I always kind of find that thing of like. Because often, like you get stopped in an airport for a photo or something and you don't, you know. But if someone goes, I read your book, it's like, yeah. Oh, right.

[B]

That's how I feel.

[A]

Oh, I feel like we're friends.

[B]

Especially because you're atheist, you know, because you don't believe, you know, atheists in the way that I suppose I'm an atheist. Meaning I don't believe there's a God out there. Anyway, let's not get into that. But the fact that you don't believe.

[A]

There'S a dog in here.

[B]

That'S a 90 minute callback means even more. So I really, really appreciate it. And the special, which is called It's Killer.

[A]

Yeah. Natural Born Killer.

[B]

Natural Born Killer. Excuse me. Natural Born Killer. It will be on Netflix April 16th. April 16th.

[A]

Which I think has probably already happened.

[B]

It's fantastic. I'll say this about a specific compliment, apart from the jacket unbuttoning, which gives me just so masterful love. It will never forget it. And how much of it is talking to somebody in the audience. And it's just like the, the courage of that. It's really cool to capture something real. And really, you're a master. It's so funny. And it's. It's a little bit over an hour, I think.

[A]

I think just under.

[B]

Just under, Just under.

[A]

Yeah. But it feels longer.

[B]

That was actually the Opposite. I was like.

[A]

It was, like, directed this one.

[B]

It was over.

[A]

Everything's like. Everything's a moving shot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So. And I edited it on the. On the beats.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So it felt like. And then there's.

[B]

It goes down so smooth.

[A]

There's then that. That color change as well. So every bit of the show. There's four sections to the show, and the color changes kind of subtly in the background.

[B]

Yeah. I was going to ask you, were those reshoots that you. So you did the joke. All the jokes straight, and then the 360 shot was at a reshoot.

[A]

The. No, the 360 was. I've got this amazing Steadicam operator that just. So. For one of the late shows just came on and just rotated and just was around.

[B]

And that was the tape. That was the real life.

[A]

Yeah. So it was like, you know, it's. All of those shots are kind of one. One take.

[B]

And you just asked them not to pay no mind.

[A]

Yeah. The audience kind of. You know, they can see there's lights and cameras and stuff.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like that.

[B]

But I got the feeling that Mulaney opens his with a 360. I felt like that was a pickup. Not that that makes it bad, but you. The fact that you're. Maybe he did it live, too, is really cool.

[A]

Yeah. It's. If you're. If you're into directing comedy specials, why sometimes comedy specials, it's like three shots on rotation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you go, oh, this is. It's great. But I don't know who's cutting it, but it's like they're not listening to it. They've got the sound on.

[B]

I edited. We had an editor, but we went in and did our own pass. Because no one. No one can do it for you. It turns out no one can do it for you. And the language of the shots and when the cut is so important, do it for you.

[A]

And that's also the spiritual message of this show.

[B]

Well, that's true. You're supposed to pick up the ball and run with it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Jimmy, thank you so much. What a pleasure. Would you say in your Irish. Your. Your famously Irish accent, keep it crispy? It's just how we end.

[A]

Keep it crispy.

[B]

Debonair.

[A]

Thank you. Here's my Bond audition.

[B]

Thank you, my friend.