Michael Rosenbaum

Summary

Podcast Summary: You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes

Episode: Michael Rosenbaum
Release Date: May 1, 2024

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Overview

In this rich and revealing episode, Pete Holmes welcomes actor and fellow podcast host Michael Rosenbaum (“Inside of You,” “Smallville”) for an unguarded, free-ranging conversation. Playing to the show’s core theme—sharing secret weirdness—the pair dive deep into stories of adolescence, embarrassment, family dysfunction, personal wounds, reparenting, and the art of embracing vulnerability with humor. The episode moves deftly between raunchy childhood memories, introspective admissions about self-worth, the need for validation, the mechanics of dopamine rewards, and the redemptive power of creativity and connection.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Childhood Weirdness and Embarrassment

• "Frozen Bomb" Nickname Origins ([01:26]–[02:06])

  • Rosenbaum recounts how his friends called him “Frozen Bomb” because his mom always served frozen pizza.

    “My friends used to call me Frozen Bomb. Yeah. His mom makes frozen pizzas all the time for his meals. Can I just say, sort of embarrassing.” — Michael Rosenbaum ([01:53])

  • Pete and Michael riff about how embarrassing moments from childhood can stick and shape us.

• Early Experiences with Girls and Body Image ([04:16]–[05:49])

  • Rosenbaum shares his first awkward kisses with the “Dozer twins,” how feelings of rejection haunted him, and how those experiences still color his self-image.

• The Impact of Dopamine and Unexpected Thrills ([08:00]–[08:46])

  • Pete explains the neuroscience of surprise (unexpected rewards = more dopamine), linking it to childhood memories of “surprise boobs,” and surprise successes in stand-up:

    “The way dopamine works at its best is when it’s a surprise.” — Pete Holmes ([08:10])

2. Coming of Age: Masculinity, Shame, and Social Dynamics

• Puberty, Insecurities, and “Shame Sauna” ([21:13]–[30:16])

  • Both recount feeling behind peers developmentally—Rosenbaum as the short, late-blooming kid; Holmes as the overweight, self-conscious teen.
  • The pair bond over how small humiliations—awkward kisses, being teased for body type/pubic hair, or getting picked last—leave lasting effects.

• Standing Up to Bullies ([32:10]–[38:49])

  • Rosenbaum tells the story of a fight in a McDonald’s lot, admitting he used humor to defend himself and how even small victories over bullies changed his confidence:

    “…the only way I could defend myself. And I realized it at a young age.” — Michael Rosenbaum ([33:26])

3. Family Dynamics and the Need for Validation

• Feeling Invisible at Home ([61:06]–[62:49])

  • Rosenbaum shares a touching moment when his brother’s writing finally validated his sense of being overlooked in the family.

    “It made me cry...someone validated it. Everything that I felt.” — Michael Rosenbaum ([62:16])

• Surrogate Parenting & Seeking Attention Elsewhere ([67:34]–[68:24])

  • Rosenbaum describes seeking belonging and attention from friends’ families, filling the parental gaps from his own upbringing.

• Creating “Reparenting Wonderlands” ([71:09]–[72:19])

  • Pete praises Michael for building a home filled with pop culture treasures (screening room, memorabilia, horror movie nights) as an act of self-love and reparenting.

    “Isn’t it beautiful that you say to little Rosie, I’ve got you now?” — Pete Holmes ([71:28])

4. Creativity & Using Wounds as Fuel

• Finding Survival through Performance ([80:41]–[81:45])

  • Rosenbaum credits his first role in “Grease” with uncovering laughter as a survival technique and means to love:

    “Not being me is the way to go. Yeah, that's. That's it.” — Michael Rosenbaum ([81:40])

  • Holmes and Rosenbaum discuss how both found careers in comedy and acting as ways to transform pain into connection.

• The Power—and Pitfalls—of Self-Sabotage ([81:48]–[85:55])

  • The two confess to ongoing struggles with self-sabotage (overeating, smoking, shaming self-talk), connecting them to lingering self-worth issues from childhood.

5. Adult Relationships: Love, Abandonment, and Vulnerability

• Relationship Patterns & Fear of Abandonment ([88:29]–[103:00])

  • Rosenbaum opens up about cycles of breaking up, fear of failure and abandonment, and wanting to “find the one”—someone who’ll love him unconditionally, even through failure.

    “If you see me fail, if you see me suck, you’ll go away.” — Michael Rosenbaum ([99:21])

  • Pete relates: “You need someone to—you need something that loves, that transcends your Persona.” ([100:19])

• Relationship Mechanics & Communication ([92:40]–[95:36])

  • Pete talks about directness with his wife, Val, and the necessity of communicating even irrational hurts for intimacy.

    “The question in the relationship, you should ask...have I done anything this week, rational or not, that annoyed you?” — Pete Holmes ([94:09])

6. Honesty, Growth & Podcasting as Healing

• Embracing Vulnerability with Audiences ([104:00]–[107:01])

  • Rosenbaum credits the success of his “Inside of You” podcast to talking openly about mental health, dysfunction, and being “real.”

    “And then one day, I started just being really honest...People started to gravitate towards it.” — Michael Rosenbaum ([104:19])

• The Universe Rewards Vulnerability ([107:05]–[110:05])

  • Holmes reflects that honesty and embracing “flaws” (in creative work and life) lead to connection and fulfillment.

7. Philosophy, Belief, and Meaning

• Afterlife, Faith, and the Mystery ([113:12]–[117:49])
  • Rosenbaum shares a hope that consciousness outlives the body, distinguishing between agnosticism, atheism, and intuition about something “more.”

    “I just have this, this feeling, I have this faith, call it faith that there's something else.” ([113:40])

  • Pete discusses spiritual ideas—that “God isn’t something we look out at…God is being itself” ([115:19])—and how both see “winks” from the universe that keep hope alive.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Surprise Dopamine
  “Surprise boobs is the way dopamine works at its best is when it’s a surprise.”
  — Pete Holmes ([08:10])

• On Childhood Validation
  “It made me cry...someone validated it. Everything that I felt.”
  — Michael Rosenbaum ([62:16])

• On Wounds and Relationships
  “In a relationship, we’re finding someone that we can trust to slowly take our masks off and look at each other nakedly and say, I see who you really are, and it’s okay.”
  — Pete Holmes ([100:19])

• On Making Your Wound Useful
  “Look, making your wounds useful is one of the keys of life, and you did it.”
  — Pete Holmes ([71:28])

• On Podcasting and Vulnerability
  “Being honest and talking about mental health and dysfunction and anxiety...people started to gravitate towards it.”
  — Michael Rosenbaum ([104:19])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:26: Nickname “Frozen Bomb” and embarrassment
• 08:00: Neuroscience of surprise/dopamine
• 21:13: Kissing the Dozer twins, insecurities, and shame
• 32:10: Standing up to a bully (McDonald’s fight story)
• 61:06: Family dynamics—feeling invisible
• 67:34: Surrogate parents and searching for belonging
• 71:09: Reparenting and building a haven for his inner child
• 80:41: First role in “Grease” and discovery of performing
• 81:48: Self-sabotage and ties to self-worth
• 88:29: Relationship patterns and fear of abandonment
• 99:21: Desire for unconditional love
• 104:00: Honesty, podcasting, and healing
• 113:12: Belief in afterlife or something “more”
• 115:19: Pete’s take on consciousness and God

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Tone & Language

The conversation is raw, self-deprecating, hilarious, and vulnerable. Pete and Michael mix irreverence and deep introspection fluidly—openly discussing the awkward, the gross, the touching, and the existential with no shame.

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Takeaways

• Wounds from childhood—shame, invisibility, abandonment—can be transformed into creative expression and connection.
• Embracing and sharing your honest, “weird” self is both cathartic and powerfully connective.
• Spiritual and psychological healing often involves reparenting oneself, seeking out “safe zones” and chosen family.
• Lasting relationships require open, ongoing communication—especially about the little, irrational hurts.
• Validation—being truly “seen”—is transformative at any age.

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Final Note

“Keep your wounds useful. Be weird, be honest, and keep it crispy.”

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For more, check out Michael’s podcast “Inside of You” and follow Pete Holmes on tour or online.

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Transcript

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You made it weird.

[Pete Holmes]

You made it weird.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You made it weird.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, yeah. You made it weird.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yes, you made it weird. You made it weird with Pete Holmes.

[Pete Holmes]

What's happening, weirdos? So glad you guys are here. This is Michael Rosenbaum, who is the host of the incredible podcast Inside of you, on which I was a guest. He's also had Keanu Reeves, J.K. simmons. He's had some really, really heavy hitters. It's always. It's pop culture. It's interesting. It's introspective, as you're about to hear. It's. It's mostly because Michael, he's a really, really interesting, deep and wonderful and fun friend. He also. You may know him as Lex Luthor from The series Smallville. TV guide included him on the list of the 60 nastiest villains of all time. And no, he did not ask me to say that. I just thought that was worth sharing. Up top. So check out Inside of You. Enjoy this conversation. Hope to see you guys at a show May 4th. I'm here in LA for the Netflix is a joke fest. Coming to Chicago, coming to Houston, Pennsylvania. It's all on PeteHomes.com. hope to see you guys out there on the road. In the meantime, enjoy this chat. Get into it. That's for you. And also magic Mind. If you ever had magic mind drink that, then maybe I will. Then you'll enjoy this. Yeah, but it's frozen.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Frozen Bomb. That's what my friends used to call me.

[Pete Holmes]

Get on the mic. I'm mad at you. Get on the mic.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

My friends used to call me Frozen Bomb.

[Pete Holmes]

Because how are you gonna start with what's clearly a delightful, wonderful anecdote?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Well, Mike, are we filming?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

My mom. My mom used to cook frozen pizzas all the time for dinner. She was a terrible cook.

[Pete Holmes]

She had been Frozen bomb.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Well, my friends were always like, frozen bomb? Yeah. His mom makes frozen pizzas all the time for his meals. Can I just say, sort of embarrassing.

[Pete Holmes]

The 80s, 80s, 90s.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Rough time.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

It was a rough time.

[Pete Holmes]

50S, but it was rough. I remember. I'm not proud of this. Oh, we didn't plug that in. Does that matter, Katie?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah, actually, let's do that.

[Pete Holmes]

No, we're still talking. This is still the pod.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I don't. Am I behind you now? What are you doing?

[Pete Holmes]

I just remember that in the. In the 90s, when I was in junior high, there was a kid. Oh, God, I hate this story.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Well, then don't tell it.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I just want to be on the record that I Don't like it, then I'm going to tell it.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Oh, it's okay. You're setting it up like you don't.

[Pete Holmes]

As long as you show remorse.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Well, I hope I do.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that's what we could.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Brought to you by magic mind.

[Pete Holmes]

Say it to your camera.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Magic mind.

[Pete Holmes]

Drink it. I'm humorlessly. Shake it. Shake it real good. So anyway, what I was gonna say was there was a friend of ours who, you know, my school was in Cambridge. And do you want to know what's in it?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

As long as there's no shellfish.

[Pete Holmes]

No shellfish.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I'll die if there's shellfish.

[Pete Holmes]

Really? Mm. Frozen bomb.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Frozen bomb. I don't know if I'd die, but it would not be good.

[Pete Holmes]

It'd puff up like a puffer fish.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Anyway, this kid lived in a condo. Who cares? But at the time, we just didn't know what that was. Most of the kids lived in, I guess, houses. That's not even true. But he lived in a condo. Now that I'm a grown man, I'm like, he lived in a dope ass condo. Yeah, but it wasn't. What you saw wasn't cool on tv, right? On tv you saw little lawn and a house and a driveway. Now as a grown man, I'm like, he was in Cambridge, Massachusetts, in a nice building. Got in in the late 80s, probably got a steal, probably tripled in value. But as a kid, I was like, we used to joke that he lived in a cave. We were like, he lives in a cave. Meanwhile, some of those kids that were in on that, on this horrible cave riff also lived in condos. It was just. They were just happy. They weren't getting it right.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Are you sure they were condos instead of apartments? Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I distinctly remember being like, this isn't quite. I don't know. How can you tell?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

We used to call them duplexes.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, there you go.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You know, where I grew up, it was like the Dozer twins lived in a duplex a couple blocks away. And they were just, you know, it was like in a cat dozer. Oh, they were Amy and Robin Dozer. They were these hot sisters. And somehow, don't ask me. I mean, we can get into it, but I made out with them. It was the first time I ever kissed a girl. But it was a humiliating story. But continue your Cambridge story.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I will. Cause I know how to host a podcast. What happened? What?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

So my friend Danny Cutter and I were outside. Danny, Danny. Old Danny. And you know, it's Funny to become friends with him. We had just moved in in 1980, and I was sitting there depressed on my porch, and my dad was mowing the lawn, and he had one of these mowers that didn't have the bag attached.

[Pete Holmes]

So just.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And rocks and stuff would fly into his face. Yeah, he was. I was like, get a grass catcher, dad.

[Pete Holmes]

Get a bag.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Get a bag.

[Pete Holmes]

Get a bag, dad.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And he goes, what's wrong with you? And I go, I don't have any friends. He's like, why don't you just knock in every door in the neighborhood and see if they have a kid your age who's 10 years old?

[Pete Holmes]

He wants you to go. Jehovah's Witness.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

That's exactly what I did. I knocked on every door. Hi, my name is Michael. I'm 10. Do you have a kid I could play with? No. Door closed, door closed, door closed. And then one door opened and it was Mrs. Cutter. And she had great boobs. I remember that because this little horn.

[Pete Holmes]

Dog monster that she was putting into her life.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Well, no, I didn't. I didn't think about her boobs then. But one day, while I became friends with Danny, I walked by the bedroom and she was putting on her bra, and I saw her boobs, and I was. She was like, michael, Michael. And then I. And I never forgot those boobs. They were just slightly tanned themselves. Very.

[Pete Holmes]

What, is she going to topless bars?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No, they weren't really tan. She was just. She had a darker complexion.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And they were very pleasant and plump. And I. I've dreamt about those boobs for years. It's very true.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, can I say unexpected boobs?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Unexpected, unexpected boobs. If you get a side breast when it's unexpected, that's enough to keep you going.

[Pete Holmes]

I was walking right down over here on Vermont, and there was a place that did burlesque. What's funny is you could go in. I don't think there was even a cover. I could go in and see boobs. That's what burlesque is.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

It sort of is.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like. But it's kind of funny so you feel, like, less skeezy. It's like, yeah, it's a joke.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

It's fun. It's a joke in your mind. You're like.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like the guy in the. In the 90s that was like, let's watch this porno. It's hilarious. Like that kid.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I mean? It's so funny.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Funny.

[Pete Holmes]

I still remember Tyler Mack was like, and then they start doing it, and the sound she makes is hilarious. And then he puts it on.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I'm like, I can't watch porn with other guys. Me neither. Have I remember one kid put porn on, and I was just like, fun, comfortable. I'm out. I can't do that.

[Pete Holmes]

And he was just there, and she was making a weird sound, and I was just like, how is this what you wanted to do?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's not funny. It's. To quote Dr. Gary Penn, My therapist, it's very erotic. Yeah. And I don't want to be here.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah. A bunch of guys getting aroused together in a room isn't. It's not for me. It's not for me anyway. Danny, wait, wait, wait.

[Pete Holmes]

There was something I was telling you. Oh. About. We're not going to forget you and your boobs.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Well, wait.

[Pete Holmes]

The burlesque show.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

The burlesque show. Surprise boobs. So when you saw.

[Pete Holmes]

All I want to say is, I could have gone in the front and seen the boobs, but instead I was walking by and I looked up to the second story, and that's where they were changing. These are women that get naked for their job, but I saw accidental boobs on the sidewalk. Boobs.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

How fun.

[Pete Holmes]

I still think about them.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

See, it's when you're not supposed to. Supposed to see something you're not supposed to see behind the curtain.

[Pete Holmes]

Can I actually. Exactly. And can I bring a little neuroscience in this?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yes, please.

[Pete Holmes]

Dopamine. The way it works is if you're expecting dopamine, like, if I say, michael, do you want to go get an ice cream with me? You actually start releasing these predicting dopamine feelings, which actually kind of evens out the whole experience. I'm gonna get ice cream. I'm gonna get ice cream. Then you eat it. And it's like, I knew I was gonna get ice cream. And it's not as much of a thrill. Surprise boobs is the way dopamine works at its best is when it's a surprise. So you do a show or you do a scene and you thought it was going to be bad and it was great. Then you get a huge hit. That. Surprise boobs.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah, same thing. It's like if you're. If you're doing stand up.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And you go out there and you're expecting not a big crowd on Tuesday night. And it's packed.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm telling you.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You're like, whoa.

[Pete Holmes]

One of the best nights of my career was in Tempe, Arizona, and it was New Year's. Weekend. And both my opener and I are like, it's the night before New Year's. Who's going to be there? Yeah. Sold out. Okay, fine. But they're going to be terrible. Best crowd of the tour. And I was like. We were like, you ever get. You ever feel so good it's embarrassing? Like, you kind of have to, like, pretend you're normal.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Like, hello.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, we felt so good because our brains were prepping for you sat on your porch and your dad tells you to knock on door feeling. But then we got. You saw some. Some naturally tan boobs with symmetrical. I say jibes because they're jiggling, not because they're Jewish boobs.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Jan Cutter.

[Pete Holmes]

Jan. God. Restaurant. Dead.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

She died.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, no.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah. Well, wait a. See, that just completely turned it around.

[Pete Holmes]

Or are we honoring.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

We're honoring her and her lovely bosoms.

[Pete Holmes]

It was part of it.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's okay.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Do you like the word bosom?

[Pete Holmes]

I don't mind it. Like, I don't like bosom buddies. Oh, they're bosom buddies. What are we nursing on each teat?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

What is your.

[Pete Holmes]

Is that what it is?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I don't know. Look at these bosom buddies, one on each. What's your favorite word to describe breasts? You're like, she has great breasts. Great boobs, tits. Bosoms.

[Pete Holmes]

Where's jugs on this list?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Jugs.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I call my wives?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

What?

[Pete Holmes]

Chuggers.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Chuggers.

[Pete Holmes]

I go, I love you nice chuggers, baby.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I like.

[Pete Holmes]

But I'll say it in earnest, which is weird. I'll go, like, you have the best chuggers in the business.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

We have these heart. We watch horror movies. I have horror movie nights at my house for all my horror movie buddies. And we watch them, and for some reason we get all giggly and fun when we see boobs. And some old. Especially the older horror movies. You see a lot of boobs?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, the cheapest.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And we're like. I'm like, oh, my God, this movie just jumped up to a B or whatever we have.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

But if you see. If you see a movie.

[Pete Holmes]

When I was a kid and I'd watch, there was like a college TV station. So kind of like pirate radio, but it was a TV station.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And they just air movies. And there are certain movies where you can't cut around the nudity. And once I learned this, like, his background nudity, like, it's a part. It's like Tom Hanks, the frat house movie Party house. I think it's Called something like that. Like, that doesn't matter. There's a scene where the cops bust in and there's hundreds of extras, and a lot of them are topless. What, are you gonna just not show that scene? Continuity.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So guess who's seeing, you know, little.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Standard definition Slumber party massacre. There's just a scene. It's so random. It's like a shower scene. We're sounding like such pigs. But that. We're kids, we're watching these.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And it's just. It's just a dolly and naked butts. And then a girl turns around and it's her boobs. And then she turn back. And now we tilt down, and then we tilt up, we see booze, we go to the neck. And there's no reason.

[Pete Holmes]

They're just the cameras, just checking them out.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

This camera operator was hired for a reason.

[Pete Holmes]

I. I picture him. He's got a Hawaiian shirt, nothing underneath. It's open.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Great shot, Mick.

[Pete Holmes]

Mustache, dark mustache, cigarette always dangling, bald, but long in the back. That's who's shooting this movie.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Do you remember in the 80s it was pervy to have cameras? Do you remember, like, the feeling, like, picture a guy in a vest filled with film, but he's not working for a newspaper. He's just kind of at the beach. That's just a perv.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah, just a perv. It was okay to put those pervs in there.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, pervs were out. Pervs were just out snapping pervy telephoto lenses. And I knew this was true because if you read. I liked video production, even as a kid. And if you read those, they always had the grossest ads. It was always like, are you a perv? Like, do you want to be pervy? You're right. And then now everyone is constantly taking photos all the time, everywhere. But in the 80s and 90s, it was just guys with dark, dark mustaches, cigarettes, and a fisherman.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And those mustaches are coming back now. You notice that I. The thing is, I can't grow one. It doesn't look right on me. But some guys look good in a mustache. But you think it's. Is that going. Is that a fad? Is it going to go away again?

[Pete Holmes]

When I see these things circling back, I'm just like, there's nothing. We're out. We're out of ideas. Like, I was thinking with movies, computers, not AI, but computers was saying they. They crunch the numbers and they're like, music is a finite resource, and you're going to be out of new melodies by A certain year, like they predicted the year would run out. That's how I feel about fashion. I see kids. I sound like an oldie, but who cares? I see kids these days, and they're dressed like I dressed in 1995. Yeah, the. The baggy flannel I don't like. You're wearing cargo pants.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah, but I don't like 90s. I don't like the high jeans.

[Pete Holmes]

HJS.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

What?

[Pete Holmes]

That's.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I always do that. I was like, you know, ooh, sbs. What's that? Side breasts.

[Pete Holmes]

Sbs.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I always say the letters like it makes it better.

[Pete Holmes]

Ssb. Surprise. Side breasts.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Well, my friend John. Name drop. John Heater. Napoleon Dynamite. Who I. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Which you hooked up.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah. Such a funny guy. But, like, I kind of got it from him and his friends. But, like, he's in the smu.

[Pete Holmes]

Secret Mormon underwear.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yes, I did.

[Pete Holmes]

You talked to him about that? The mcu?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

He's in the smu. But like I said, you know, he'll be like, oh, my God. You know, he'll say things, but he won't swear. You know, like.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Did you see her? Did you see her? Totally showed her bees. Oh, my God. Boobs.

[Pete Holmes]

I saw her a hole.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I saw her boob. I saw her bees. Did you see her BH? No. She showed her BH and then she showed her pH.

[Pete Holmes]

Dude, this is LDS Latter Day Saint dirty talk. Oh, man, your teas are so bouncy. Show me that sweet, sweet A. And if you're real good, show me that P. Oh, I'm gonna J. I'm.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Gonna J. I'm gonna J. O. So here comes the C. And then you're. You're saying letters that aren't even bad words. I'm gonna J O. So am much.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, jsom. You won't say much now.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Now we're just in letters.

[Pete Holmes]

It's so much. Towards the end, he does, but now.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I start to do that, I go, oh, man, that flipping. Yeah, girl.

[Pete Holmes]

Can I say something hot? We're gonna get back to you kissing those twins. Oh, my God, I forgot about those sisters. I think it's really funny to say dozers. You know how my wife is funny. There's certain things. Yeah, this is top of the list for me. It's freaking freezing in here. Mr. Bigglesworth is a very surprising, delightful way to say it's cold for me.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

It's freaking freezing in here. What does he say? Mr. What?

[Pete Holmes]

Mr. Bigglesworth.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Mr. Big.

[Pete Holmes]

You can just say it's freaking freezing in here. I think it's funny. Frickin freezing in here is funnier. Yeah, My favorite one. Casey Affleck. Goodwill hunting for the 80 for the. For the TV edit. The line is keep fucking with me. Watch what happens. For the TV edit. They have them do an all. They go, no, keep antagonizing me. Watch what happens. Guess which one's in the movie Antagonizing. Because that's, that's freaking funny.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

That's.

[Pete Holmes]

That's 50 times antagonizing me. Keep antagonizing me. Watch what happens in the Boston accent.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I haven't seen that in so long.

[Pete Holmes]

Gwh.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Do you remember a lot? Good one.

[Pete Holmes]

There you go. Tips. Tips.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Totally. Touch our teeth.

[Pete Holmes]

Touch your teeth. Oh, yeah. Put your f around my tea. Why is your tip h. Why is your tip so hot?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No heater? No.

[Pete Holmes]

Heavy?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No.

[Pete Holmes]

Ha.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Hard.

[Pete Holmes]

Dude, I was miles from getting up hard, but I didn't get it when you're doing that. I was like veiny. Like I was still way off. When you don't have it, you don't have it. When you don't have it, you don't have it. When you don't have it, you don't have it. Oh, you've gotten us so many great guests for this show. Jay Alexander, Jason Alexander.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Oh, he's a sweetheart.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, he was.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I love Jason. Alex, you gotta see. No, you haven't got me any ghosts.

[Pete Holmes]

Sure, I've tried.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You have tried.

[Pete Holmes]

I've tried.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You really have tried.

[Pete Holmes]

I emailed Chris Evans. You're the only guest. You don't bar. You don't bother Chris Evans.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Can you still bother him?

[Pete Holmes]

No. I feel bad that I bothered him once.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You only bothered him once and he.

[Pete Holmes]

Appropriately just kind of let it slide.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

He never responded.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't, I don't like this shots fired tone we're taking. He's Captain America. He cannot reply to my. Hey, do you want to do my buddy? He's so funny. It's a great podcast. Come on.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Hey, do me a flavor.

[Pete Holmes]

Captain America. Chris. I salute you, Chris.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You're great.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, I thought you're gonna be like, you, dude, do my vodka.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Hell ce.

[Pete Holmes]

No. You've gotten us so many guests. That's how hard I look.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I like you. I think you're super funny and talented and you're a kind man and I have no problem np asking friends af.

[Pete Holmes]

I know, but you have a lot of cool ass friends, dude.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Well, you know, I don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

I mean, we tried to get.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I know a lot of. I know a lot of people now from doing the podcast so long. But, you know, I. I wouldn't say I'm friends with everybody. I'm like, I know. I saw them all. You know what I mean? Like.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, no.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Acquaintances that I like.

[Pete Holmes]

I like. Let's. Let's upgrade that. I. I like to think of it as allies. Sure. Teammates. I got a lot of teammates. You know, I got a lot of friendlies. Friendlies.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Friendlies.

[Pete Holmes]

They're not friends. They're friendlies.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

They're friendlies.

[Pete Holmes]

Chris Evans and I aren't friends, but he's a friendly.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Like Billy Dee Williams.

[Pete Holmes]

He's.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

He's. He's a kind man. And you go, oh, yeah, he just is on. It went viral. He's. He was an amazing guest. He came over the house. He's 86 years old. And I'm like, did you audition for Star Wars? He goes, no, no, I didn't. And. And I. At the very end that we. I was, you know, I was geeking out a little bit, but we talked about everything. Life.

[Pete Holmes]

And like cold 45.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Did you?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I did. He was like, let me tell you, he's like. He's like. Because women, they love me.

[Pete Holmes]

They would pass out.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No, no, Serious. Women would faint when they saw me. Billy D. Oh, yeah. And at the very end of the podcast, I go, will you. Will you sign my Lando Calrissian statue? He goes, I'd be happy to.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm sorry. CA is his agency. Caa because that's class act action.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

He was class act.

[Pete Holmes]

Class act. What surprised you about. What's the dude who plays Reacher's name? We tried to get him on this pod.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Alan Richson. He's really blowing up. He's doing a movie. A guy Ritchie movies coming out and like, he's doing a lot of stuff.

[Pete Holmes]

No, he's great.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

He's the sweetest guy.

[Pete Holmes]

Here's my question.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I tried.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I know. We all tried. The whole. The rest of the podcast is.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Just gave me. I emailed his people. Oh, yeah, this is my close.

[Pete Holmes]

Katie has that into an ice cream cone. That's too close. Who did it like this? Someone did a whole episode like this.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

How about this? In a world no creatures.

[Pete Holmes]

If we had headlines of years of.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Evolution, Michael Rose without fear, without logic. It is as though God created the devil and gave him Jaws. See it before you go swimming.

[Pete Holmes]

That was excellent. Thank you. Was that the real copy?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

That was something like that, yeah. I never left the house as a kid.

[Pete Holmes]

I know.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I could tell you.

[Pete Holmes]

Your house. Okay, let's get to your love of pop culture. After you finish the story about the the two kisses.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Look, I became friends with this guy, Danny Cutter, whose mom had nice boobs. Jan and his late mother. One time in the summer we're hanging out and Julie Montgomery lived up the street, goes, hey, me, Amy Dozer and Robin Dozer, the twins are going to this. There's this house that is for sale and there's no one in there and we're just gonna hang out and drink. And it was like I wasn't a drinker or whatever. I was a kid. I was like, probably a LEP. 10. 10.

[Pete Holmes]

You maybe 10 when you started the story.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah, maybe nine or 10, something like that. I remember it was 1980.

[Pete Holmes]

80, I think I was eight.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

But we went to this house and I remember I was in my swimming trunk still. They were still wet, which was probably good because it blended in with whatever else was wet. And no, I was too young for that. I started puberty anyway. I'm in there and.

[Pete Holmes]

You mean a self jizz.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah, but I didn't. I was blanks then. I didn't even know what was going on. I had no hair on my ball.

[Pete Holmes]

So I was 14 or 15.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I never jade that at that age.

[Pete Holmes]

I never jade blanks.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I never jade until I was probably 15 and then I. 15 or 16, I don't know. I didn't start puberty to late. And that's when I. I started essing. J e s ing l's shooting loads. Yes. And we're gonna play it's like 25000 pyramid.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm very good at it. Are you very good at it? All right.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

So we went to this ah, alcoholic house, abandoned house. And we sat in the basement and we. One thing led to another. We were playing spin the bottle and. No, it was truth or dare.

[Pete Holmes]

Sorry.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

It was truth or dare.

[Pete Holmes]

And. And someone said dare.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

They go, I dare Danny to kiss Amy Dozer. And he kissed her. I dare. And then Danny kissed the other girl. And then I kissed one. And I didn't know what I was doing. I'm telling you, I was just so scared. But H as a r. Hard as a rock. Yes. And he looks to Katie. Katie's not even listening to this.

[Pete Holmes]

Dlt DLTK don't look to Katie.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Don't look to Katie. So I was kissing them and you know, and then Danny was kissing. End of the night, fast forward. We're walking up the street back home and both dozer twins are holding Danny's hand.

[Pete Holmes]

They were twins.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah, Dozer twins. They were twins. Sorry. They were twins. The Dozer Twins. And they were both holding Danny's hands. Both of them. And Julie was there, and I was in the back by myself. And they were like, danny's such a good kisser. You're such a good kisser. And I was just like, oh, my God. That was my first experience. And I remember Julie Montgomery walked back, and she goes, hey, you're good, too. You're fine.

[Pete Holmes]

Hey, Julie, you're the queen.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

But I. But she was. She was kind of being patronizing or whatever. Or like, you know, sort of. She did. And I just. I remember walking home by myself, going, I'm such a loser. And that's what I remember. The Dozer Twins.

[Pete Holmes]

Buddy, I'm gonna join you in the shame sauna. All right? S.S. don't say S.S. there's certain acronyms.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I was the shortest kid in my school through high school.

[Pete Holmes]

What?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

But go ahead. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm sorry.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Little Rosie.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And then I grew after high school.

[Pete Holmes]

Little frozen bird.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Eight inches after high school.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, you did.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Whoa, hang on a second. That hurts my finger.

[Pete Holmes]

That's not pleasant. I hated every moment of that tapping. My first. It was at camp. There was. It's funny the games we play to, like, have these life experiences. You're playing Truth or Dare. My camp was just like. There were a lot of British counselors. I've told the story before.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I'll keep it brief.

[Pete Holmes]

And we found out that French kissing in the British culture was called snogging.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Snogging.

[Pete Holmes]

Did you snog her? Oh, you gave her a right snogging, did you? Is that what they said right after you gave her a shag? First you snog, then you shag, then you be your L. That's a bit backwards. Ale to the Chief. No, that's us. Long live the Queen.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

We have Alder.

[Pete Holmes]

The Chief. They have.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, you got it.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Queen is dead. Wait, what?

[Pete Holmes]

The queen died. This is me fighting Out. Yeah, this is me fighting, but go ahead. It just became, like, a thing. I don't know how these. I don't know how these currencies start, but people are like. People are snogging. There's just snogging going around. And here I am, like, 11 years old, and I'm like. I'm wet and red, just red and wet and jiggly and wearing probably, like, a silken shirt, like a little accountant. And I'm just going around, probably rubber bands on my braces and a weird high and Tight haircut. And I'm just goof.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You were nowhere near this noggin.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm not snoggable now. I'm highly schnuggable.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Get my wife's chuggers in the mix. We're snogging.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So anyway, I'm going around those C's, But I. Nice. I was camp cool. So camp was the only place that I got to be cool. Found out snogging was happening. I kind of put it out on the street or the dirt path, as it were. At this lo fi camp that I was down for a snog. I wanted a snog because people were snogging. And Crystal, I still remember her name. She was a little bit older. I'm sitting in the common area speaking about watching porn together. I'm just sitting on a couch. And she told me at some point, she's like, I'm gonna come up and I'm gonna snog you. You won't know when it's coming. Cute. In my mind, she was the most beautiful girl in the world, really.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Crystal what? Geyser.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't know her. Crystal Geyser. Yeah. She owns the water company. Crystal Geyser. I mean, she was. The way that I remember her was mysterious, smoky, interesting, and probably shaped my whole, you know, identity in that way. You know what I mean?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, yeah. This is. I guess I'm hesitating to say this because we are talking about maybe we were older. Like 16, to be honest. 16.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

That's kind of older.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. I think I hadn't snogged yet.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm very bad at remembering.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I was bad at snogging.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. No, this is. This is the point of my story. You were ashamed that you felt bad at kissing. Crystal comes up, sits on my lap. And I remember she gave out a little like a growl. And she snogged me. And I didn't know what to do. So I'm just sitting there, and I go, right. I just. That I thought that's what snogging was. Get the tongue in there. And then she pulls away. And as she pulls away, she goes, I didn't know. You're just gonna stick your tongue in my mouth. And she, like, as she was. Who are you saying that to? Crystal. So I felt shame. B.K. s bad kiss. Shame.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

It could honestly, those things devastate you as a child. Those little things that you're embarrassed by or, like, I didn't start puberty, as I told you. And, like, sometimes people play basketball and they play shirts or skins. And I go, I'll take the zero. I'm just not going to play. I'm not. Because I had no hair in the arms.

[Pete Holmes]

Remember?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Mike Curry was the hairiest kid around. Hair. Tons of hair under his arms. At, like, 12, he's like, hair. Yeah. He goes, rosenbaum, why don't you have any hair under your arms? You're 14. I'm like, oh, I'm a swimmer. What? Oh, we. We shave it. I remember hearing that. And so swimmers shave their bodies. So I just said, oh, I swim. So it's. It's aerodynamics.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm dead. That. You said you prepped. You were like.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I remember at like, 14 or 15. I remember hearing that swimmers, they shave their bodies or whatever. So I go, well, I'm on this. I'm looking to be on the swim. Swim team. So that's why I shaved her.

[Pete Holmes]

Wow. Yes. Can I say shirts versus skins? What is this, Guantanamo Bay?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Have you ever heard of that?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, because I'm the chunky stuff. You're the hairless.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And I was puny.

[Pete Holmes]

Honestly, I was a puny little dude. The puny hairless community has nothing on the gawky chunk stuff. Community. We don't. We don't recognize your plight. I would have loved to be small and hairless instead of a.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Were you that heavy? Were you heavy?

[Pete Holmes]

It doesn't. I'm gonna tell you a little something about heaviness.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

If you're the heaviest, you're that heavy. It doesn't matter.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You were the heavy.

[Pete Holmes]

The heavy. Just praise that. There's another heavy.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Did you cry to yourself?

[Pete Holmes]

Did you?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Oh, yeah. I would honestly pray to God to start puberty. Give me hairs on my arms. Give me something. Give me a bigger wiener. Winger something. And then everything worked out. But it took time.

[Pete Holmes]

Big wing.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Big wing.

[Pete Holmes]

Big Wing.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

VWs, Big Wing or Ranger. I'm just comfortable. Yeah, I'm comfortable. I don't. I don't look at it as a. I. I don't.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't see no complaints.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah, I'm not like, thimble. Like.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, so hair. I. I get. I remember very distinctly playing Very Vivid Memory. And I remember it from two perspectives. Meaning it's d. Personalized, which is weird, right? I'm chunk. I'm sweating in ways that they're not. And there's this little guy, and he's good with the ball. And I get over him and I put my hand up and I remember. And then there's like a. Like a lava Lamp esque.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Oh, man.

[Pete Holmes]

And then the kid was like, I love this kid. He goes, I hate being short is what he said.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

The guy in the elevator, droopy dog going down through.

[Pete Holmes]

I was just so happy that he saw me as tall first. Chunk style second. And I love that kid because the whole game.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Amazing how you remember that.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm not counting points. I'm just counting how many people are kind of being groovy. And that kid was the groovicious. Were people kind to you in the 90s?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Well, as the heavy kid, I didn't.

[Pete Holmes]

Get it that bad.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

That's good because you probably can kick somebody's ass. You're a tall guy.

[Pete Holmes]

That's what they say about us talls.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

How tall were you in high school?

[Pete Holmes]

I was about this height, 6, 3.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

How tall were you in, like, going into high school?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I think I hit my growth spurt right on classic Norman Rockwell schedule between eighth and ninth grade.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Just like, oh, yeah. Nobody wanted to mess with. What are you, six, four now?

[Pete Holmes]

I'm six' six now.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Oh, so nobody was gonna mess with you.

[Pete Holmes]

They say that, but I'll tell you, from a tall, it just, you know, when you watch those movies and there's the giant, like, Ant man, and he's.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Like, yes, that's how I felt.

[Pete Holmes]

And the little guys are like. And also, I just wasn't tough or anything. I do wonder, like, I lived in a bad neighborhood in New York, and I think my height maybe helped me there because people were. People were getting jumped a lot.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Really.

[Pete Holmes]

And I remember that was the only time that I was like, oh, I'm glad I'm tall. And I don't want you live.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

7Th. A 7th and A.

[Pete Holmes]

7Th and A. Yeah. Alphabet City in the 60s.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I lived on 7th and A, though.

[Pete Holmes]

You did?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah. When I was, you know, trying to be an actor after college, I was living in New York City. Nice.

[Pete Holmes]

Right near where Gigi Allen used to perform.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Is that true?

[Pete Holmes]

That's true. You. When did you move to New York City?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Right after college. I was probably. It was 1995.

[Pete Holmes]

So you got some hair.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I had puberty.

[Pete Holmes]

Hit it.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Still skinny. I had long hair. I had messed up teeth because I had got punched in the face once in high school and my teeth were.

[Pete Holmes]

Time out.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

What happened?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You really want to know?

[Pete Holmes]

You got punched in the face and.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

There was this teeth. Well, I played. I played hockey, but I was. I was short and like, not, you know, not a big tough kid. But there was this other kid named. I won't say his name, but he was. He did not like me. And my dad kind of didn't like his father and.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And his father knew it or whatever. And my dad called him some. Some name or something. And so we're at a basketball game, South Spencer, and I'm with my friend Tom. No, I'm with my friend Pat and cj and we're at the game, and all of a sudden, I'm behind this kid a little ways, and the kid turns around and goes, your dad needs to shut his mouth. And I go. I go, why don't you shut your mouth? I'm trying to watch a game here.

[Pete Holmes]

And I.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

People started laughing.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, you gotta laugh.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And then he said something. He goes, yeah, you want me to kick your ass? I go, well, there's a. I remember just going, like, I go right here in the middle of the game, you know, And I just started. Little Buddy Hackett over here. And I was just like. I realized, wow, my comebacks are funny. They might not be right now, but they were funny then.

[Pete Holmes]

And if you're even trying a comeback back, I was. I was just doing great, but that's.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

The only way I could defend myself. And I realized it at a young age. And this guy goes. He goes, I'm gonna kick your ass after the game. I'm gonna kick your ass. And he was a bigger kid.

[Pete Holmes]

And what are you putting in your day planner?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah. Think of the comebacks you could like. I'm gonna kick your ass after this.

[Pete Holmes]

You're gonna set a reminder. It's like, but you betray that you're from the future. You're gonna set a reminder on your iPhone. Yeah. Everyone looks at. You're like, oh, no, I'm from the future.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

All right, I'll set an alarm from my ass so it knows to be kicked by your foot after. You know, there you go.

[Pete Holmes]

There's the 90s.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah. And then I. We started driving home. Pat was driving, and he goes, somebody's tailgating us. She's, like, tailing us, not tailgating.

[Pete Holmes]

Wait, did you forget you had an ass kicking on?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Well, we. We left a little bit early or something. I remember we left and we didn't think much of. It was later in the game. Like, all of a sudden, he goes, it's so and so. It's so and so. Yeah, it's Rhodes. Let's just call him Rhodes.

[Pete Holmes]

Not a Rhodes scholar, I'm guessing.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah. Well, anyway, he's. And he goes. Pat's like, what do you want me to do? And I don't know what got into me. I go, pull over in the McDonald's parking lot. I don't. I don't know to this day why I did that.

[Pete Holmes]

It says, billions and millions served and a few fights. Yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And I said, pull over. He goes, are you serious? I'm like, yeah, pull over. I'm like, that nerd and dazing confused. I'm just gonna kick his ass. And then he gets laid out. You remember Adam Goldberg, the actor? Anyway, I love that movie. So we go to McDonald's in the parking lot, and the guy comes out and goes, man, you need to learn to shut your mouth, Rosenbaum. And I go. I go. I go. I go. I start mouthing him again, and he's like, you know, I go, all right, you know, are you gonna hit me or, you know, are we gonna, like, keep talking about this?

[Pete Holmes]

How long did you schedule for this meeting?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I was just, like, going, you know, shut up, love. I was just trying to stick up for myself and not act like a wimp in front all these people. And I turned my head to turn to say something, and he just went boom.

[Pete Holmes]

Wait, when you turned away?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yes, he punched me. And I just remember I got a little numb, and there was a little blood, and he came at me, and I just grabbed him so he wouldn't hit me again, And I kind of threw him in, like, both of us. Into the McDonald's door, and it shattered the McDonald's glass door. And. And that's what.

[Pete Holmes]

And in a McFlurry of glass and a flying everywhere.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yes, that's what happened. And all of a sudden, it was like, you know, we were there, and the. The manager comes out. Everybody gets in their cars, and I go home, and I've got this. My teeth are kind of like, wait, wait.

[Pete Holmes]

What does the manager say? Don't worry about it.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No, he started to come out, and he's like, you know, and we just took off, and I went home. Typical parents. I go, so? And so Rhodes punched me in the face. And my dad's like, didn't give a shit. Just was like, oh.

[Pete Holmes]

Barely looked down from the Hustler magazine he was casually reading in the living room.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No, he was with my mom. He's never paid much attention to me. So I went up to my room, and I put some ice on my face. And the next day, I went to school, and I remember in the cafeteria, I walk in. I had a little. A little bit of a puffy lip. Nothing bad. And Rhodes walks into the cafeteria and sits down at the table. And he's got a cast on his hand. He's got, like, this from punchiness. Yes. So he's injured from yours?

[Pete Holmes]

Steel jaw.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yes. And I was like.

[Pete Holmes]

And.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And people at the table started making fun of him, was like, who won that fight, dude? And they started, like, you know, laughing sort of at him. And he was like, you know, a popular kid and everything. And I was just like, oh, my God. And later that day, I swear to God, I'll never forget it. It's like out of a movie. It's the end of the period, and I go to the bathroom, and I'm taking a piss, and who walks in the bathroom? No one else is in there. Rhodes. And Rhodes is in there, and he goes up to the urinal, he goes, gotta learn to shut your mouth, man.

[Pete Holmes]

That's his one line.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah. And I just looked at him and I go, you started it. And we both peed together.

[Pete Holmes]

And then sound of urine.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And then that was it.

[Pete Holmes]

You were golden.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I mean, he never went after me again.

[Pete Holmes]

But, like, we just had someone on the podcast. Remember who? Do you remember who it was? It was like a fight. I never forget that fight. You're kind of like, you become friends.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No, we weren't friends.

[Pete Holmes]

Johnny Knoxville was like, after you would get in a fight.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No, we never friends. I think there was more of, like, he never bothered me again.

[Pete Holmes]

And that.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

It happened. It happened again. This one kid named Davey Barnes, I used to come out of my. At a health class and my books, and as I was walking, he'd go, boom. And hit my books and knock him out. And I remember did it a couple times. It just felt. He off my boner from health class. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Whoa.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And I remember one time. Again, bigger kid. And I just lost it one day, and I think I was thinking about it the whole class. If he does this again, here's what I'm gonna do. Here's what I'm gonna do. And I built myself up.

[Pete Holmes]

That's what happens when you establish a pattern.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Bullying in the same style.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Maybe somebody's gonna set a bully trap.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah. And he did it. And I go. I go. I go, you have. You do that one more again, I swear to God, I'm gonna kick your ass, man. Don't ever knock my. And I screamed at him. He's like, whoa, whoa, dude. And laughed and kind of walked. Never bothered me again, though.

[Pete Holmes]

I fucking love you.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Never bothered me again. I knew I would get beat up. I wasn't a big kid, but I Did stick up for myself, you know, Can I. At times.

[Pete Holmes]

Here's a pitch. Yeah, this is fucked up.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You ready?

[Pete Holmes]

Take the book on the top, put thumbtacks through the COVID so there's a spiky front. And then. Let him do it. Let him do it.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Rewind.

[Pete Holmes]

You.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Dude. Fuck you, Barnes.

[Pete Holmes]

And you did it to yourself.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

F, U, D, B, F you, Davey Barnes.

[Pete Holmes]

Davey Barnes is the name. Every name you have used thus far.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Davey Barnes.

[Pete Holmes]

You feel like. When did you lose your verge?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I think I was about 18 and I met. Actually, I was 17 and we were. I was in this musical.

[Pete Holmes]

16.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I was actually 17 towards. Yeah, the end of 17. And I was doing the play, the musical Grease. And this sophomore girl.

[Pete Holmes]

Tell me more.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

This sophomore girl, she was. She was cute and we just kind of hit it off. And she goes, I'm a virgin or whatever. And she goes, I haven't had sex. And I go, yeah, I haven't either. She goes, well, wait, the pact. Yeah. And we eventually had sex. And here's the. Here's the Hummer you put.

[Pete Holmes]

Where you put it on your calendar.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No, but we just talked about it and talked about it and finally, at the end of the year, we finally did it.

[Pete Holmes]

Where?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

In her room. Her brother was in the other room. Her parents were gone and her brother's in the other room. And I remember it was just like. I just remember being on the floor and I remember trying to put this condom or rubber. We talked, called it this rubber on. And I remember it was hard to get it in. And your wiener into the condom or.

[Pete Holmes]

Your condom to weiner into the vagina.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

The wiener into the. Yep, into the vagina. The W into the V and the D into the R first.

[Pete Holmes]

Which sidebar W. More like double V. Who's drawing it like a Whataburger? It's a double V. Oh, a W is the only letter named after another letter. It's a double U.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

It's a W. Right.

[Pete Holmes]

But no one draws it like a Whataburger. No, it's.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Or a Wally World. Right? It's a double V. Yeah, it is.

[Pete Holmes]

I say double V when I do the Alphabet.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I never even think about double U.

[Pete Holmes]

Double V, X, Y and Z. I also call Y V on a still.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You know, I can still remember my linking verbs. There was a teacher that.

[Pete Holmes]

You inviting me to LinkedIn right now, bro.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No, LinkedIn. You know what? I never knew what LinkedIn was. I remember I thought it was. I swear to God, for the first year, it came up in my Emails. It goes, what's LinkedIn?

[Pete Holmes]

I thought it was linked. Lyn.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

What's LinkedIn?

[Pete Holmes]

I thought it was a lowercase.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Lynn Kid.

[Pete Holmes]

Link.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Lyn. Lynn Kid.

[Pete Holmes]

Why are you inviting me to join your networking tree on LinkedIn?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah, what is. What is that? I still have never been on LinkedIn.

[Pete Holmes]

It's Facebook for people in khakis that walk on carpet.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Maybe it is.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

What was I saying about LinkedIn?

[Pete Holmes]

You were losing your virginity with the brother nearby, which I was a little uncomfortable.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Oh, yeah. No, no. And then we just went at it and I should. Here's the funny thing about that. It's so terrible. My buddy, years later, he. He ends up marrying her and I'm back in town and he's like, oh, Rosie, big actor. Oh, yeah. How about this one movie you did? It was. And she goes, oh, yeah, kicking it. Old school, man. How. That was a good one. And I go, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Don'T, don't.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You know what I said?

[Pete Holmes]

What did you say?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

How did I taste?

[Pete Holmes]

How did I taste?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Wait, that's not what I said. That wouldn't work. I said something like that. I said, oh, how did. What was. I gotta remember what I said. What. What was.

[Pete Holmes]

It can't be worse than how did I taste.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No, it wasn't that.

[Pete Holmes]

I thought you were just gonna say.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

That doesn't make sense with your wife. No, it was better than that. Hold on, let me think of it. It's better. The word. It was like, oh, how. How are sloppy seconds?

[Pete Holmes]

I can't handle that story.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I know.

[Pete Holmes]

What did he say?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And he just goes. And everybody laughed.

[Pete Holmes]

It was just.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

We were jokers. I mean, it was nothing to it. But he did. He did marry her. And I remember she didn't marry her.

[Pete Holmes]

Because he found out about this.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No, he married her. But before that, she was dating someone else. And I came home and this is only like, not that long before, but I hadn't seen her since that. Those moments in. In school. And I remember she came up to me with her at the time, boyfriend and. Or no husband. She was married before. And she says, this is. This is Michael. This is my first. And he was just so uncomfortable, it wasn't even funny. He's like, hey, man. And it was like, I was on.

[Pete Holmes]

A show, I just want to.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And I tried to downplay it all. Like, no, no, it was so long ago. We were teenagers. We were kids. Yeah. And she's like, it was good, though. And I'm like, oh, God, here we go. It was. It was. It Was uncomfortable. It was uncomfortable. I. I've been in those moments where it's just like. Just like, why are you saying this? Why are you doing. Who would do that?

[Pete Holmes]

This is my first.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah, don't do that to him.

[Pete Holmes]

I also was.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I was terrible.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Trying to acknowledge there's so much going on here in that. Like. I don't know. I just want to acknowledge with some awareness the idea of male ownership, female sexuality. Like, use good, sloppy seconds and just say, we're. We're. We're not doing that anymore.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Well, it was one of those things where he just was hammering me, and I just felt like, yeah. It was the only thing I'd come. It was. It was bad, but it was awesome. If you know the guy, you would have said that.

[Pete Holmes]

Everyone would vouch it works.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Because he's like the guy that will make fun of everybody constantly, right? All of a sudden, boom, he's like, you got him. You shut up.

[Pete Holmes]

You got him.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You got. And that's what they said. Rose. They call me Rose. Like, Rose. That was hilarious.

[Pete Holmes]

You moved to 7th and A.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

7Th and A in New York.

[Pete Holmes]

And what. Where did you get your. Where did I sound like Jim Neglect? Where did you get your passion, first of all? And the balls, the courage?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

7Th and A. I lived in a one bedroom. I had bunk beds with my friend Matt. And I remember someone died on our floor.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, no.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And they. And I walked in one day, we both walked into the apartment, and then I go, oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

Good Lord. Good Lord.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

What is that? That's almost like sour milk or something. What is that? And he goes, dude, someone died. And sure enough, four doors down, this guy had been decaying, rotting four doors.

[Pete Holmes]

Down, so close to it.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And we. And it smelled for months. And I remember, we put.

[Pete Holmes]

Wait, after they got rid of him, I hope.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yes. But they got. We had towels under the door, so it didn't seep in. I mean, it was the worst. And once you smell a dead body, you'll never forget it.

[Pete Holmes]

It is. You'll never eat a dead body again, I'll tell you that.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No, no.

[Pete Holmes]

But once you smell.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

But we would torture our friends. So, like, my friend Dave would come over and he'd buzz in. I go, hey, dude, elevator's broken. Gotta take the stairs. And then you'd hear him yelling, oh, my God. What is going on?

[Pete Holmes]

Who died in here?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

4A. Down the. Down the hallway, 4A died. And it was. We would do that to everybody who came in, delivery guys, whatever, Just so.

[Pete Holmes]

They please let that guy have been a ghost so he could see you using his aroma.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

He would have loved it.

[Pete Holmes]

But at least I'm bringing joy.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Have you ever smelled a dead body?

[Pete Holmes]

No.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Let me tell you something. You never want to, and when you do, you'll never forget it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. It's in your brain now.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

It is.

[Pete Holmes]

I.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

If I smell something, I know what that is. They're like, oh, that's a. That's an animal. I go, no, no, no, no, no.

[Pete Holmes]

That's a dead body.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

There's a distinct difference between a decaying dead animal carcass and a human.

[Pete Holmes]

You're three clicks away from being a detective.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yes, I am.

[Pete Holmes]

When I was in Uganda, there was a bathroom that was just a trough. Big, big dugout hole. And then there were holes in the ground, and everyone pooped in it. The. The hot prank on this trip was to steal someone's camera and take a picture down the hole, which I think I did with my own camera because I remember that soupy nightmare in my film. My apologies to the CVS and Lexington that had to develop that. But I remember everyone was like, it smells real bad, and it smells real bad. And I was like, get over it. And I walked in and I almost yacked. Like, there's some smells you forget. Smell is sort of the king.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I'm a smell guy, too.

[Pete Holmes]

See, that are horrible. Is. Is seeing something horrible worse? Because smelling something horrible will make you puke.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You know, I am a breath guy.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, how do you tell someone they don't have good breath?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Let me tell you something. You tell, I went on a date.

[Pete Holmes]

Tell them. How do you tell them? I want to know. And I'm going on the. Me and you. I have bad breath. You tell me. You look at me.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You know what? I. I will. And I do that sometimes. I'll just go. I'll just. To my friends, I'll go, whoa, dude, you got to get a breath in it. That's. Would you. Yeah, I do that.

[Pete Holmes]

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[Michael Rosenbaum]

There was some guy that I know, but like, it's a weird situation. Like we know each other and I saw him at this venue last week and he walked up to me and it was jaw droppingly bad. It was. Yeah, it was JDB Man, J, D, P, Bro B. And I wanted to tell him with everything I got, but it smelled so bad that I just, I couldn't get myself. I couldn't say, hey, hey, mate, you should get yourself a, you know, a breath mint or like a dental appointment. It's. It's. It's not good.

[Pete Holmes]

The second one, get a. Get like some inserts or maybe see a professional that can scrape that. You have to.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Something that kills gingivitis immediately. There's a gas station across the street. Chug some gasoline.

[Pete Holmes]

That's the worst.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And then light it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, spit it out. So there's just a residue. Then light it. You know how it'll just go. It'll burn off. It'll kill. Whatever.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Nothing worse than. Than bad breath.

[Pete Holmes]

Or ding dong odor ovajin.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Or if you have.

[Pete Holmes]

Or ding dong. You're saying genital DD or Doesn't matter. Opp.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Other people's.

[Pete Holmes]

Is that what that means?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You down with opp?

[Pete Holmes]

I still don't know what it means.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I think it's other 45. I don't know what it means. Other people's privates, Other people's possessions.

[Pete Holmes]

Is that what it is?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No, I think it's other people's P, U S. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, other people's.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

That would spell. That's the.

[Pete Holmes]

But why? What do you mean? Other people's like your own.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

How can I explain it? I take it from my frame.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't know.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I don't know. But, but, but breath to me, if I'm out with a girl, I don't care how cool she is, how awesome she is, how beautiful she is, how intelligent she is, if her breath's really bad, it's such a turn off that sometimes I'll go, okay, maybe it was just this once and you go again. But if it's bad the second time.

[Pete Holmes]

Or two out of three, if on the second date it still smells like number two. Here's what you're picking up on. It's a pheromone thing. I'll give you an example.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

That's not a pheromone thing.

[Pete Holmes]

Sure is. Yeah, I think it is.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You think some breath people don't notice that other people do?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I think all, all flavors of smells are bad to some and yum to others.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

For real.

[Pete Holmes]

There are people in my family and they have the Holmes type of bad breath. I'm like, this is like, it's like how dogs pee on everything and they smell it and they're like, oh, that's Vern. You know what I mean? Sending P mail. Sometimes they check the scent folder. Okay, My people in my family, if my brother, for example, has bad breath, which he doesn't, but if he does, if he goes a couple days, I'll smell him and I'll be like, God damn, that's dad. So it's like, it's a, it's a mark. It's a primal mammal thing.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I think though my wife flossing and there's good hygiene and brushing your tongue and brushing religiously. And also diet like, you know, if you're on the, the vegetarian diet, there's been some big turn offs.

[Pete Holmes]

No, there's dairy bad breath for sure.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

But there's nothing I like more than fresh, crisp, like a Sprite. Like a well carbonated Sprite. Like a cold Sprite, like crisp and refreshing.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm sorry, is that your breath or a fucking Sprite?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Oh my God, your breath is like a cold green Sprite.

[Pete Holmes]

Is your breath being marketed to the hip hop community? Because that smells like Sprite. Oh, it's a lemon fresh Sprite. Do you remember when in the 90s, they were like, we're taking a swing and they got crisscross in there and it fucking worked. Whenever I hear a hip hop song and they say Sprite, I'm like, it.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Worked because I'M the Mickey Miggity making the biggity Mac Daddy, I'm the Mickey Mac. Can you say that.

[Pete Holmes]

Daddy? I can't. I'm the Mickey Mickey Daddy. I'm the Mickey, Mickey, Mickey, Mickey Mac. You got it. That's it. He wasn't as good as he crossed.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Will make you. Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Other people's privates. I perform.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You're a funny story.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

So that band was playing and remember that grub? Yep. What are they called?

[Pete Holmes]

Crisscross.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Crisscross. The one.

[Pete Holmes]

The gentleman in the backwards clothing.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

That's what I was gonna say. So they wore backwards pants and stuff, right?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

So easy. I had this friend. I still have a friend. His name is Thomas Gaddis. Now, he played on the football team. Now he's gonna. It gets mad at me when I tell the story.

[Pete Holmes]

That's all the Gaddis boys did.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

But he hung out with a lot of the. The black football players. And so he was kind of hip and cool. And he took the S off his first name, Thomas. Now, if you phonetically say or spell the word Thomas without an S, it's Thama Thoma. Right? So he named himself Thama instead of Thomas.

[Pete Holmes]

To be cooler.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

To be cooler. And he would wear the. He sometimes wore the backwards pants.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm supposed to call this person Thima Thama. So fat, she jumped in the air and got stuck. You mean that kind of thing?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

The mall. So here. Here it is. So one night, she's in the. He's in the dorm and this girl's drunk and looking for him. She's drunk and it's like. She's like. She starts yelling. It's like two in the morning in the football dumps. The mall. The mall.

[Pete Holmes]

The mall.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And this big black dude opens the door and looks and goes, the mall's closed. Get out of here. The mall's closed.

[Pete Holmes]

The mall.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

The mall.

[Pete Holmes]

The mall.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

From all the. Get out of here. That is a true story. And he goes, dude, I didn't do that because it was hip. I. I said the mall because it's a Greek name.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, my God, shut it.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You did it in the element. But I love them all. He's good looking, cool dude.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. I knew a Christopher that went by tougher. And I didn't care for that.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Oh, well, there's not Topher. Topher, but tougher.

[Pete Holmes]

Tougher. And I was like, you mean, like you're tougher than me?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Topher? Kind of a weird thing too, right?

[Pete Holmes]

It's. I love Topher, but I Look the other way because.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

But Toffer. Topher Toffers, too. Like, tougher is. He's like the halfback on the football team.

[Pete Holmes]

Tougher.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Hey, Tougher, come here, drink this beer.

[Pete Holmes]

Tougher at his house, had to ride the bike to get the TV to work. And I remember even being a kid being like, wow, your parents are involved. Like, they're noticing that you're a little doughy and you care about it. And so they were like, you're gonna have to ride the bike to watch the tv. And I was like, well, that's. You said your dad doesn't. Is that why you became a zesty boy? Because of your dad?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

What do you mean?

[Pete Holmes]

You know, like a razzle dazzle, like a delight, a performer, a showman, a show person.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Oh, listen, my father is.

[Pete Holmes]

Did he ignore you just the right amount to make you go like, I'll show you.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yes, a million percent percent. A million percent.

[Pete Holmes]

Lex Luther. My Patty. It has taken.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

That kind of looks like me when I was Lex Luther, that picture.

[Pete Holmes]

Which one? That Gosling.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Is that right? Not the next Steve Martin. This big one on the right.

[Pete Holmes]

The pink one?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah. I'm colorblind.

[Pete Holmes]

You can't see pink.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I sort of see pink, but, like, I. I didn't want to say Jesus, kind of.

[Pete Holmes]

This looks like you. You see that? This is you.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No, but if you look at pictures of Lex Luther of when I played on Smallville, it kind of. I'm glad you took this off the wall, everybody. But anyway, just reminded me. I was like, oh, my God, that kind of look like me.

[Pete Holmes]

I just wanted everyone to know what we were talking about.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah, I'm glad you did that.

[Pete Holmes]

And also, canvas places aren't supposed to let you print other people's drawings, but that was back when it was the Wild West.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And who is that?

[Pete Holmes]

Who made that?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No, who is in on that?

[Pete Holmes]

Ryan Gosling.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

That's Ryan Gosling in the movie Drive. Oh, I didn't know that.

[Pete Holmes]

And somebody. I wish I knew somebody made that incredible thing. And I was like, that's awesome. I'm going to print on a canvas. Nowadays, you go on a canvas printing site and they'll be like, do you own this? And that's how it should be. But this was back when it was new. So they were just like, we're going to look the other way because we want your $20.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Interesting.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. So anyway, my father ignored you. Daddy, do you see.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Daddy, do you feel me? No, no. Daddy, do you want a hug?

[Pete Holmes]

So your dad, you came home With a broken jaw, basically. And your dad didn't even care.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

My dad was my. I'm gonna sum it up. My brother. We're all. We all come from a dysfunctional family. And, you know, it's whatever. There's, you know, pros and cons. But my brother, one night. He's not an actor, he's not a writer. He just wrote everything he remembers about us as a family. And I won't elaborate on who he was talking to at any specific moment, but when he got to me, he said, and then there was Michael. It was like he wasn't there. Nobody paid any attention to him at all. And here's the thing. It made me cry. And here's the thing. I didn't cry because it was true. I cried because someone validated it. Everything that I felt.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

It's that he acknowledged something that no one has ever acknowledged in the family.

[Pete Holmes]

It was true. It was true. You cried. You cried because somebody saw you.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Because somebody saw me. And it was weird. I don't know why I got emotional, but it made me emotional. And I know why. My deeply.

[Pete Holmes]

To be seen.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

To have your pain mirrored.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And understood.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah. No one. I get it. I think I was, like, sort of a rambunctious at adhd. Nobody knew it. Nobody knew how to deal with me. I didn't know. I. No one had patience with me.

[Pete Holmes]

No one.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I didn't know I was colorblind until I was in high school. I was in biology class, and Mr. Irwin's like, turn to page 127 if you see. If you don't see a sailboat in a number seven in these circles, you're colorblind. Come see me after class. And I go, this girl, Dusky Rideout was her name. And I go, dusky. I don't see anything. She goes, michael Rosenbaum's colorblind.

[Pete Holmes]

I go, you bitch. The mall is closed, bitch.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

The mall's closed, bitch.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm also colorblind.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Are you? Yeah, but I.

[Pete Holmes]

But you have it bad if you see that.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No, no, no. I can't differentiate a lot of colors, so I just choose not to say it.

[Pete Holmes]

You're talking to one of your brethren, so people think we.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Red, green. I'm.

[Pete Holmes]

I get confused with red. Green. Yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yes. And what is the traffic light, the bottom light look to you?

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, interesting. The bottom line. Isn't that the green one? That's the green one.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

What does it look like to you? Does it look green to you?

[Pete Holmes]

Green, blue, white.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

It's a Hundred percent white. It doesn't look green at all.

[Pete Holmes]

When you were a kid, you go, red light, white light.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Well, no, you know, obviously by. Because. And people would say, what color is the sky? Well, everybody knows the sky's blue. What color are your jeans? Well, most jeans are blue. What color is the grass? Well, everybody knows the grass is green.

[Pete Holmes]

I can do one.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Oh, boy. It's like, go ahead.

[Pete Holmes]

You could tell me that this is a very dark red.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No, that's black.

[Pete Holmes]

That's correct. You could also tell me that your shirt, which is also black, is a very dark, earthy green.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Well, I know it's black, but I.

[Pete Holmes]

Also know it's black. But I can look at it. And if you were like, no, Pete, it's green. I'd just be like, of course it is.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

That's what happens to me. People will say.

[Pete Holmes]

But then my brain will just go, that's great.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah. Or sometimes yellow greens or blue. Greens or red. Blue. Sometimes I, I just can't, like, I can't do. I can't do it. Like, if somebody said, the car that hit you, what color was it? Yeah, I go, to me, could have been blue, could have been gray. I don't think it was purple because there aren't purple cars. Unless Prince was driving, which he didn't.

[Pete Holmes]

Drive himself, did he?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No, no. And he's. Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Is he long dead or 10 years? Yeah, that's long dead.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Probably 10 years, I think.

[Pete Holmes]

So you, you were saying, people always say to me, is this. Are we dispelling some common colorblind misconceptions?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah, well, it's just I. When I take those tests, if I take any of those tests, I'll go, what do you guys see in there? They're like a three. I go, I see absolutely nothing.

[Pete Holmes]

Me too.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

So many times. I can take tests right now and I'll show you. We'll go through it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. And you could just see.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No, I don't. What do you see? I can kind of make out something there. Is it a two?

[Pete Holmes]

And magic eyes aren't for us. You know those magic eye things?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

What are those?

[Pete Holmes]

Where you picture emerges, you look at it and move it away from your face slowly.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Those are for the color enabled.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm colorblind, baby. People say, I'm so sorry. I'm like, no, it doesn't really, you know, but I wear colorblind glass.

[Pete Holmes]

I have, I have colorblind glasses. My dick.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Hold on a second.

[Pete Holmes]

Hold on. That's my rock hard dick.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

If I was rock hard during your. Your show.

[Pete Holmes]

Sometimes if you're in a different time zone, sometimes you'll get a boner in the middle of the day.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Really?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I can't believe I got hard on Pete Holmes's show.

[Pete Holmes]

Dude, you do Pete Holmes show? Yeah. Were you hard? Yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

So it's magic.

[Pete Holmes]

That's his magic.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

He really the only podcast where every guest is certified rock hard.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Certified rock hard. Brought to you by Magic Mod.

[Pete Holmes]

You could say Vita Coco.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Magic card. Magic.

[Pete Holmes]

You keep giving it to magic mind. Give it to modern mammals. Yeah. That's my favorite shampoo. You get to take some.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

We know you're over shampoo. Try this stuff. And said, is it healthy?

[Pete Holmes]

It's like, it's a similar in a shampoo healthy. It's not made out of olive oil. Is that what you mean? No. Take a bunch.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No, I just want one. I'm going to come back over if I really like. I'm going to take one and if I really. All right. Does it help with balding?

[Pete Holmes]

No, it's not like that. It just makes it so you're. It looks like you didn't wash your hair. Even though you did. It like, cleans it. You're giving it back.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No, I'm gonna take five.

[Pete Holmes]

There you go. There you go. Well, you know. All right. You. Your dad. You weren't there.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Arms off. Okay, good.

[Pete Holmes]

My brother said this is my version to relate to what you were saying. My brother said, I remember feeling bad for you because you've been putting on a show since you were like, me too.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Nine years old, putting on a show.

[Pete Holmes]

And when he said, I felt bad for you, you. It wasn't just that I knew that I was putting on a show. It said somebody saw it. So I'm just relating.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You know what's funny about that? This sounds really sad. Not to bring the audience down, but I think I.

[Pete Holmes]

Hid.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Behind this. This mask of trying to make people laugh, entertaining them my whole life from a young age, because I knew being me wasn't cool. It wasn't. So I. I used to have. I call them, like, I guess, surrogate parents where my friend's parents were kind of my parents.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Sometimes I'd stay a week at David Idleman's house and his. His mom would say, does your mom care that you're staying here every night? I'm like, no, she doesn't care. And she wouldn't call.

[Pete Holmes]

Wow.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I just, you know, sometimes I call and say, I'm saying it. David's again. Okay. The Shepherds, the cutters, the camachos. I would always be there. And a lot of times the parents, they paid attention to me and, you know, they talked to me and they thought I was funny.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And I relate hard. I just felt like I was kind of a burden in a way. I felt like I wasn't.

[Pete Holmes]

I just. It felt.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Felt like maybe I wasn't just. I didn't. People didn't want me to be around without saying. Like, one time my mom said to my father in front of me and my little brother, I was like, oh, because my brother's Eric. And she says. She goes, come on, Mark. Everybody knows Eric's your favorite. Like, right in front of me. I'm like, I'm right here. Wow. So there was stuff like that. But I think I grew up and it wasn't until the last X amount of years, whatever, where I go. I looked in the mirror one day, probably 10 years ago or something, and I said, have you ever done this? I looked in the mirror. You've looked in the mirror.

[Pete Holmes]

Clearly I haven't.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Have you ever talked to yourself while looking in the mirror?

[Pete Holmes]

Of course.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Have you ever said, who the fuck are you?

[Pete Holmes]

No, I say nice things.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Well, at that time I said, who the are you? I really. I don't even know who. I don't even know who I am. I don't know who I am. And I felt like. And I talked to my therapist about it and we figured it out, but it was just hiding behind this Persona. Hiding behind. Just entertain, be loved, be adored, be talented, be this. And just cover all that hurt up and you're gonna. And that's how you'll survive.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And it is a surviving method, of course.

[Pete Holmes]

And by the way, I have done that. I've said bad things to myself and. Yeah, I thought you meant now know. I just didn't want you to.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I try not to do it now. I try to correct myself and I try to, you know, say my gratitudes and be just grateful for what I have.

[Pete Holmes]

And what's crazy is in the mirror, it really works the other way to be like, look at you. I'm proud of you. Just stuff like that.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Who cares if it's embarrassing? This whole thing is embarrassing. You know what I mean?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

This podcast.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Are you embarrassed right now? You've been doing this for a while.

[Pete Holmes]

I know you rock hard. I'm. I'm semi.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And that makes me feel bad.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Well, it shouldn't because some people can't get hard.

[Pete Holmes]

I tried to do a Joke about that. H. About. I was like, it's a weird topic, but I was like, I'm glad. One of the reasons it's nice. I don't know how to say it. I was like, I feel for the gay male community because I've lost my erection with a woman, and that's a terrible thing. But imagine. Imagine losing your erection with another guy and he has an erection. Oh, my God.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Stand there. Go.

[Pete Holmes]

And you're just like, God damn it. And they're rock hard. It's like a before and after. Let's stay on this. I. I have a very specific question. When I went to your house, it's. It's a little like a reparenting wonderland.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah. It's almost like I'm Willy Wonka.

[Pete Holmes]

Would you care to comment? Yeah, you know exactly what I mean. You got your Indiana Jones.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Well, hang on.

[Pete Holmes]

Screening room.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You see, I already go into defense mechanism, but I'm not attacking.

[Pete Holmes]

But.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

But you're not. And that's what I'm just about to say. But you're not attacking.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm not. I'm saying, isn't it beautiful that you say to little Rosie, I've got you now.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

What do you like?

[Pete Holmes]

You want a movie room? You want Napoleon Dynamite to come over and use acronyms? Do you want to have a podcast where people celebrate you for who you are and love and crave more, More. More about who you are? Look, making your wounds useful is one of the keys of life, and you did it. But also, I'm seeing. So there is a way I could roast you and be like, oh, what do you. Willy Wonka? And your house is full of toys. But I'm like, isn't that beautiful that you're giving yourself permission and. And what you. What, your unconscious, symbolic child self would receive his love?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Here's a signed Lando Calrissian. Yeah, you nuts? What's the opposite of being invisible as a child? Interviewing Lando Calrissian. Would you say that's a pretty good salve.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

For this particular type of heck.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yanu Reeves at the house.

[Pete Holmes]

Whoa.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah, man. He looked at my Dracula poster and went, hey, I was in that. And I go, yes, you are. I can't believe I have that there. That's always been there, by the way. And he's like, I remember I gave Francis Ford Coppola mushrooms on his birthday. And I go, good start to the interview.

[Pete Holmes]

K. Reeves did the pod.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

He did K. Reeves. K. Reeves. We did a movie called Sweet November years ago. Edit that out, huh?

[Pete Holmes]

Edit that out.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

What?

[Pete Holmes]

I'm not here to plug your.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

What?

[Pete Holmes]

It was 100% JK. You just said you did a movie called Sweet Whatever. And I said, edit that out. It's a standard.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And by the way, nobody knows that movie. But every day I was in drag, and every day I'd go, good morning, Cantu.

[Pete Holmes]

Can't.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I called him Cantu. And he goes, hello. How are you today?

[Pete Holmes]

Hello.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Good to see you.

[Pete Holmes]

Keanu Reeves always revs into what he's saying. Hello. He has.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah. He did this scene where Francis wants much. Wait a minute. Yeah, yeah, I remember I was carrying. I was playing gay, but carrying Charlize Theron naked into a bathroom. And I remember the scene we're walking in and Keanu's character comes in and goes, sarah, I know Doctors. And the director, Pat o' Connor's like, cut. Keno, is everything okay? He's like, yeah, no, I just. Let's do it again. And action. Sarah, I know Doctors punches a wall. And he's like, cut, Kenna. And do you want to take a minute? He goes, no, no, I got this. I got this. Just roll camera. And action. Sarah, I know Doctors. Yeah, that was it. That was good. And I remember Charlize and I just went, hi, Charlize. It was just a funny moment.

[Pete Holmes]

All his difference, but it was a difference.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And I loved his work ethic. And he got really. He's really hard on himself, and he was beautiful, and he's wonderful to work with. I have so much video of him and me around that. Yeah, me and K. Did you.

[Pete Holmes]

Not that I want it debunked, but every once in a while, you see those posts on Facebook that are like, keanu Reeves is the nicest. Gave his house to his makeup person on the Matrix.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

With all his stuff inside, including his.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Passports and his wife as a thank you. Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And, like, I want to believe I read it. Facebook knows I love a good. Kiana is the best post. You gotta chill.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I gotta chill. It was multiplying. There's another use and I'm losing control. Do you not know what I'm talking about?

[Pete Holmes]

No.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Do you?

[Pete Holmes]

Don't look to Katie.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Listen to me. I've got the chills. They're multiplying and I'm losing control. For the power you're supplying.

[Pete Holmes]

It's electrifying.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You better shape up.

[Pete Holmes]

Is this Rocky Horror?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No, it's fucking. You guys should be hammering for this. It's Greece.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. I'm not a grease guy.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I got the chills.

[Pete Holmes]

Not Me?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You never like Grease?

[Pete Holmes]

Cut to me in the audience, no chills.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You don't like musicals?

[Pete Holmes]

No, I like some musicals. I used to be a guy that said I didn't like musicals. I don't like. Actually, I'm going to cut to the conclusion. I'm sort of jealous of people that, like, got to enjoy. No, people that got to enjoy that sort of stuff. I was raised very cynical and dark. My brother and I would just be like, so now I have, like, a jealousy that you love Greece, Val loves Greece, and I'm just sort of like. I feel like I'm out smoking in the back. I'm really just jealous of people that like that.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

All right. I think you'd like Greece.

[Pete Holmes]

I bet I would. I've heard the new one is great. So where were we? You're reparenting yourself.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

What new one?

[Pete Holmes]

There's a new one.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Isn't that new Grease?

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, that's fucking west side Story.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Who gives a shit?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Katie and I both are like, what the fuck is he doing?

[Pete Holmes]

All those same Greases, but go ahead, go ahead. All those are the same to me. West side Greasy story, that's all it is. Shooba de doop.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Cynical.

[Pete Holmes]

I love this girl. I popped my collar and I rolled my own cigarette While leaning on a Corvette uh oh, I gotta get in a fight on the night I'm supposed to marry her Tie our hands together with knives uh oh the barber is shaking his fist and the cop has his billy goat we're gonna get in a lot of trouble. What if we dance? What if we dance? What if we dance? Jump from a roof to another roof. Comb my hair. The end. Fuck off.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

All CPH over here.

[Pete Holmes]

Cynical Pete Holmes.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, but really, I'm watching you guys having a ball and I'm like, that must be nice, guys. This episode is brought to us by our friends at Magic Mind. You know, I'm constantly talking about Magic Mind because it is a magical elixir that helps me focus better on my work, be more creative and drink less coffee. And it can do this for you. I am always trying to get the guests to do that quick little shot of Magic Mind because it opens you up, it gives you access to your brain, to your creativity, to your focus. It's almost like a. It's a medium space. Meaning? Meaning the caffeine from the matcha gets you up, but the adaptogens help you calm down. Does that make sense? So it's an up and a down, putting you in that perfect medium. Creative Flow. Don't expect wired or jittery. Expect dialed in. Athletes have Gatorade now creators have created. You get 30% more done on average. That's five to seven hours of 30% more productivity after drinking. Tastes fantastic. Help fight off procrastination, brain fog, fatigue and some ADD symptoms getting you into that flow state. It's basically flow state in a bottle. I absolutely love it. I drink it before every podcast I'm on or hosting. Drink it before every show. You will absolutely love it. And they have a money back guarantee. Any first purchase will be refunded with no questions asked. So you have nothing to lose. Support your brain, Support your creativity. Support your flow. Go to magicmind co weird and use our discount code weird at checkout for 20% off for a limited time. 20% off your first order. That's MagicMind Co weird. Use discount code weird to try it to see what all the buzz is about. Because I'm buzzing. I keep buzzing about it. I love talking about it. We're also brought to us by our friends at Lectric E Bikes. Guys, I love our electric E bike. It gets me back outside. It gets me into a sense of adventure, exploration and fun. And because I got the plus one seat for Leela, she climbs on there and we cruise. Remember that feeling when you were a kid and you just ride your bike? That was the activity. Electric E bikes makes riding a bike so fun. That is where I'm back. I feel like I'm 12 years old again. Cruising down the road, smelling the smells, seeing the sun, breathing in the fresh air. It is incredible. This spring, get out there with electric ebike, enjoy the weather. With an amazing variety of models built for riders of all abilities, it's never been easier to fall in love with riding again. Plus every electric E bike. It's so cool. Ships in this big box. You open it up, you unfold it. It's practically done. It is the easiest assemble that you can imagine and it's actually kind of fun. Go to electric ebikes.com to discover ebikes that start at just 7.99 with the extra XP light up to 150 miles with one charge on the long range option. Which is what? I have financing as low as 49 bucks a month. You save on gas, you save on parking tickets and maintenance. It's incredible. Anyone can ride. We have the Expedition, which is sturdy and versatile. It's a cargo E bike that can hold up to £450. Perfect for commuters, families like me and Leela. Delivery drivers and more. Getting started with E Bikes. It's never been easier. Those adventures are waiting for you. It ships free. Toolless assembly. Get it, get into it. Go to electric ebikes.com go full throttle into spring with electric E Bikes, the number one selling E bikes in the nation. Get your adventures [e-mail] and please mention you made it weird with Pete Holmes. Sent you in the post checkout survey that really, really helps us. That's LEC T R I C ebikes.com and tell them this podcast sends you. All right, everybody, back to the show.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Greece is where it all started for me, baby. That was the first play I did, man.

[Pete Holmes]

Musical.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah, musical. And I remember that I was Vince Fontaine kicking the stacks of wax here at the house of wax. WAXX cruising time 1046. Sharpshooters pick hit of the week. A brand new one. Shoot up the charts like a rocket by the Veldu Rays. Going out to Ronnie and Sheila. The new gets done Mom's school store, especially a little Don. Whatever.

[Pete Holmes]

Miggity, miggity, make it a Mac.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And I remember that was incredible. I, you know why, why that changed my life? Because I, I didn't have the biggest part, but it was a funny and I. Funny part. And I, the audience, when I heard the laughter and the applause at the end of the show, I was. I had chills.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Multiplying. And after the next day, Chris Pro, the captain of the football team, walks by me and goes, you're really funny in that play last night. And then walked off and I go. And that changed my life.

[Pete Holmes]

Gasp. You found your survival technique.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I was like, wow. Not being me is the way to go. Yeah, that's. That's it.

[Pete Holmes]

And then you found therapy and stuff. Are you, how are you doing?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Took me a long time.

[Pete Holmes]

How are you doing?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I'm doing, I'm doing okay. I'm. I am. I really am. I, I.

[Pete Holmes]

Nobody doubted it. No.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

But I think it's a process. And I, I self sabotage and I do things that I know I shouldn't do.

[Pete Holmes]

Just.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Broader terms. Just sort of like, you know, like sometimes I'll just go, I'll start having cigarettes, like, what are you doing? And then I'm like, you know.

[Pete Holmes]

You mean, are you taking that as an indication that there's still part of you that thinks you're unworthy of love?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yes. Yeah, sure. You know, it's.

[Pete Holmes]

But I get it. But hey, you know what it is for me? A whole box of Oreos or whatever. You know what I mean?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And I do that, too. I. Believe it or not. I don't know. I'm lucky that I. I don't know. Metabolism.

[Pete Holmes]

But, like, I got him a flabbolism.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I can't. I can't just have one bag of popcorn at my house.

[Pete Holmes]

Dude, it's not even about the popcorn. Right?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I just have to keep eating, chasing something, keeping going. What's next? What's next? If it's in front of me, it's what's next. But. But how do you stop that, buddy?

[Pete Holmes]

One thing I've noticed, the way I know I'm having a binge is I say, how much is enough? And the voice says back very clearly, never. The answer is never. That's how I know I'm in a spiral, and I need to stop. I'm gonna put this to you. Eating a bag of pistachio. You ever have, like, pistachios that are flavored?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I don't like them.

[Pete Holmes]

All right.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Musicals. Pistachios.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. One of them is a delightful taste on my tongue. And one of them is John Travolta being like, oh, geez, I'm gonna ask her out. But my. My Corvette needs new oil, and so does the air.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You better shape up.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, the guys in the red coats and the guys in the blue coats are gonna get together. But I'm supposed to be.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

It is a fun movie. Oh.

[Pete Holmes]

Maybe my twinkle toes will save the day. Oh, the moon is over the Bronx.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

What are you, Marvin Hamlisch now?

[Pete Holmes]

What is this?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Jesus Christ.

[Pete Holmes]

I also want to go on the record and say, I know I'm wrong. I know I'm wrong.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

It's fine.

[Pete Holmes]

When a medium bag of stash crack. You can't grow stash, remember? Me neither. Yeah. If it's a flavored pistachio, meaning some of them have more flavor than others, so it doesn't have to be right. Eat one, and it's like, 10 times the. The juice. Do you know what I'm talking about, Katie? One of them got more powder or whatever it is, right? It's this rush. Now I'm just eating, looking for that one. I'm like a rat. It's a chase. I'm like, I can't believe I'm not into gambling. I got that brain.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

See, I think. I think. You know what's funny is, like, I'm not a drinker, and, you know, I have a brother that's a big drinker, and. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Who's the favorite? Now?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

How did you remember that? Oh, I think I mentioned his name earlier.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, you said, remember? So. Yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Oh, yeah. But like. But I don't drink because I don't like how it makes me feel. I just feel like crap after. It's just like. So I rarely drink.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

So I'm surprised that my vice is like, I need to smoke, I need to eat, I need to, you know, more popular. Popcorn. More popcorn. More when I'm comfortable. When I'm comfortable. And that. That's when it happens.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Two things for you. Let's see what we can do. One, when you're eating, blood goes to your stomach. So you're probably thinking less. It's like changing the operating system of your body. Digesting, even overeating, can be preferable to overthinking that feeling. 2. Nicotine. I actually quit. Did I tell you I quit? Yeah, we talked about that.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

What were you doing smoking gum?

[Pete Holmes]

I just like.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah, I took Nicorette mints, but only 2 milligram.

[Pete Holmes]

Nice. I see. I'm such an AG. I was up to the 6 milligram gum and I'd have 10 pieces of it a day. That's a lot.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I probably have these two milligrams, probably 15 a day.

[Pete Holmes]

All right.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

But it's only two milligrams. But still, I'm glad you're on the.

[Pete Holmes]

On the nicotine by itself. I'm surprised that doesn't help you with the smoking. Maybe there's something else going on.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No, no.

[Pete Holmes]

It's been four days without a cig.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah, I mean, it's not much, but it's.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, don't break it. That broke my heart a little bit. That's great. Good for you.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

But I was.

[Pete Holmes]

But I'm not a dd.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

What?

[Pete Holmes]

Nicotine helps people with add. There's a. There's a specific allure because it's a nootropic and it's a stimulant. It helps you focus. So this might be an ADD self medication issue. Meaning I'm not asking you to get on Adderall or something. I'm just.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Right. Well, I.

[Pete Holmes]

Actually happening is maybe. I can't say what's actually happening, but when people have ADD and they take something like nicotine, it just kind of pulls them into what they're doing a little bit.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yes. And I'm not someone who smokes like three or four packs a week. If it was like, you know, I might, like, have a pack and a half a week or something. It wasn't a lot.

[Pete Holmes]

Just to keep that VO career going strong.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah. Hey, deep down, body first.

[Pete Holmes]

Gatorade is that one you is the thirst aid. Just the voice of a guy who's never gone for a jog.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Gatoraded.

[Pete Holmes]

Remember the guy selling Gatorade? Hey, come into my man den and sit in a beanbag chair. Watch these athletes shoot hoops and drink Gatorade.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I always remember that guy. He's got the greatest voice. He goes, brought to you by Gatorade. Gatorade is Thursday.

[Pete Holmes]

Someone made that voice up. Someone made that voice.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You know, all those guys are the voices. There was this guy, Bob Murphy. I loved him. You go, he was the greatest announcer.

[Pete Holmes]

He just.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You listen to him and you're like, oh. He goes, like a beautiful day for a ball game. Fans filing in off the subway ramps.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And then he'd say, like this game brought to you by Toyota. It drives like a dream too. Wow, it's honeydew season.

[Pete Holmes]

You look over, I'm driving a Toyota. That was good.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Now it's honeydew season. Honeydew this and honey do that. My uncle met him once and bumped, he bumped into him and goes, oh, my God, Mr. Murphy, I'm a huge fan of yours. You're the best announcer ever. And he looks at me, goes, oh, that is so very kind of you.

[Pete Holmes]

I did. I mean the good.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Oh, I am so very kind of you. I mean, wow, I wish I had a voice that just resonated like that.

[Pete Holmes]

So you self sabotage by Smokey.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah, by smoking or eating a lot of junk food at night.

[Pete Holmes]

Relationally, because you're like, I feel like your mom, but no partner. Oh, you're wondering if you're gonna break big news on this podcast right now. No, no, actually, here it is, the hot take.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No, I double married. You know, let's just say, you know, I'm dating. You know, I'll have relationships that last.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

They last, you know, sometimes a year, sometimes two years, sometimes they've been three years.

[Pete Holmes]

But, you know, who's ending these relationships?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Unfortunately, I am. Because I, I, but you know, I'm.

[Pete Holmes]

Always gave you one.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

But I'm friend. The thing is, you know, I'm friends with your ex. All my exes. I, you know, I feel like them. Well, I don't. I'm not a yeller. I, I like, I'm giving, I'm loving.

[Pete Holmes]

But are you an abrupt, out of nowhere break upper? No, they know it's coming.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No, I'm not, I'm not abrupt. I'm very, I'm, I'm honest. To it. To a fault.

[Pete Holmes]

So they know, hey, this is Rocky.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You know, I'm like, hey, I'm. You know, I just want to let you know that, like, I'm not looking to get serious right now, you know, or I've said, you know, I really. I. I think I just don't want to be in a relationship right now. Yeah, it was really good.

[Pete Holmes]

I felt like you were breaking up with me, and I respected your honesty.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And, you know, and it's never.

[Pete Holmes]

Not everybody has to be, by the way. Right?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Well, I've seen a lot of, like, look, my sister's been divorced four times.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, okay.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

My mom's in her third marriage, although she's been married for, like, 20 years now. You know, my dad's divorced, you know, twice. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but, you know, you look. You look at the numbers, and it's like, 60 something percent end in divorce. And then you think it's just, to me, I'm a one and done. I want to meet the one that I'm like, I really want to spend. This is it. I want something to really hit me and go, I can't live without this girl. I can't live without her. I want to be with her. I need to be with her, and I want to spend the rest of my life with her. And so I'm not crying, by the way. I'm just itching my eye.

[Pete Holmes]

That's the clip, by the way. And we're gonna cut out the part.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Where you said, yeah, thank you.

[Pete Holmes]

And we're gonna make it slow mo. I just want to find the one. Why can't I find the one?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And then it cuts to you doing the Travolta making fun of Grease.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, maybe we could solve this with combs. Roll up the scuff.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

All right. No, but, like, look, for me is I want to be in a relationship. I. I seriously, I want to be with someone. I'm working on myself a lot, and I'm. I'm really trying to, like. I think I stay in things longer than I should now, where. When I was younger, I would just go, oh, that's. I'm out. Like, now. I'm not out now. I'm like, hey, let's. Let's.

[Pete Holmes]

Let's.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Let's put this on. On hold here.

[Pete Holmes]

Let's.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Let's think about this. This isn't a reason to let's. And. And when you let things kind of go and. And aren't abrupt with your decision making, yeah, you know, sometimes, but sometimes you stay in it too long.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

So it's both. It's either.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, both are injustices, aren't they?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Right. How many times have you wanted to leave your wife?

[Pete Holmes]

0.0.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

How many times she want to leave you?

[Pete Holmes]

0.0.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Never.

[Pete Holmes]

What? What are you nuts?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You guys are massively in love.

[Pete Holmes]

We talking about Pete and Val?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah, Pete and Val are perfect. Does she ever. Does she ever get mad at you? Did she ever yell at you?

[Pete Holmes]

What? Sorry, Are we talking about Pete and Val right now? Yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No, bro, you guys are in love as much as in love you could be.

[Pete Holmes]

I'll give you an example I'm trying to think of. Sometimes on the Friday edition, I do.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Feel like you do love. I mean, I could tell by the way you've talked about her.

[Pete Holmes]

I appreciate that. And, and I, I, I'm annoy myself that, that there could be a relationship like that. But we really are very well suited to one another. The way that we have a fight, the danger in Val and I's relationship, and she knows this, we talk about this all the time, is that she won't tell me her feelings if they're inconvenient. So if she is having an issue with me, I have to sort of tease it out of her. But I do.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

That's always a problem.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that can be a problem, especially if you don't do it.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And then it lingers on and there's a sense of resentment or something that's building that could have been taken care of. Right.

[Pete Holmes]

That's why Alan Debutton, we talk about this all the time. He says a very healthy question in relationships is to chills. Is it too cold in here?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No, they're just multiplying.

[Pete Holmes]

And then we get out there with dice, roll the dice in the corner of the bodega.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

All right, but what happens with it? So when she doesn't.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, I, I'll. I have to joke about it. I go, like, there was a time she was very sad and I knew that. And then I invited a kid and their parents over and then while everyone was there, I just went my office and, like, did some work. So that's a, I pulled a boner, right? Like, that's a mistake. And later I had to say to her because I got the sense that it was wrong. But she's not going to yell at me and she's not going to shame me or anything like that. But we have to clear the air. Alan de Botton says the question in the relationship, you should ask. It takes a lot of vulnerability, is to say, have I done anything this week, rational or not, that annoyed you? And the key is it can be irrational. Like, it doesn't have to be like, something that was annoying. It can just be like it hurt your child self. So in that way, I'll say to Val, I'll go like, boy, I was a jackass. For. I invited Eric and Nico over, and I knew you were depressed. And I'll know how mad or how much hurt she was by how hard she corrects me. And if she goes, no, you weren't a jackass, I'll know we're good. But if she goes like, no, I'm like, ah, I was a buffoon.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You're fine.

[Pete Holmes]

I was a buffoon. Right. And then I'll say that, and I'll get it on the record. I was a buffoon. And then I'll apologize. So there. There takes some benagle. Finagle.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah. You know, I'm different. I'm not. I try not to be passive aggressive with anything.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Pa. But I'm very, like, when I. I call, I call it how I see it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

So for instance, if, you know, I'm a relationship with somebody and I'm like. I'm like, you're so loud right now.

[Pete Holmes]

Hilarious. You just.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Can you nub it down a little bit? You know, I'll just joke like that. I'll say something like that.

[Pete Holmes]

Or that lies out with me. By the way, she'll a Kool Aid man.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And that just means I'm being the Kool Aid man.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

We all know what that means.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Or I'll say, you know, like, be a little nicer. You can be a little nicer. Yeah. Be a little so bossy here. And, you know, I. But I've had people say, that was. That was rude. And I go, oh, my God, I'm so sorry. Was it when you correct them. Oh, no. About something. Something.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

But I like when people kind of correct me. But even if you don't see it, if somebody goes, you're being. You could sit there and go one of two ways. You go, what are you talking about? I wasn't being rude. I could. I go, I'm sorry you saw it that way. I didn't mean to be rude.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You know, and that could end it in a nice way. Yeah, but. But I'm not combative. I'm not like, I don't want to be combative. I want to, you know, But I think I'm also Looking for? Who cares what? No, it doesn't matter what I'm looking for. I think what I'm looking for I'll find when I'm ready for it.

[Pete Holmes]

I was curious what you're looking for.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I think I need. I think. Look, there's no perfect person out there. And I tell you I'm not one. I'm not perfect.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

But I want someone who has that. Who's smart.

[Pete Holmes]

Yep.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Who I'm really attracted to.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

But also has that girly side that, like, could be kids with me. We could go do stupid things Willy Wonka way. Like, in my Willy Wonka way. And, like, has that natural soft way about them.

[Pete Holmes]

You want someone whose damage or wound mirrors yours. I'm putting words in your mouth, but most people are. Is this okay?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah. That's kind of cool.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

That's kind of sweet.

[Pete Holmes]

What I'm saying is Val and I growing up religious. Val and I having similar dynamics in our families. All this sort of stuff. Again, Alan de Button. I wish I knew how to say it. It's like spelled Elaine du Botton. He talks about, like, when you're on a date and you go, there just wasn't that spark he's saying? What you're actually saying is, I didn't see the potential for this person to hurt me in the way that I need to be hurt. Here. I'll unpack that a little bit. That's effed. I'm enough like Val's parent. That damaged her the most. So she can do that work psychologically with me in a safe way. But that makes me interesting to her. The fact that I am a blowhard, that I can be Kool Aid man, that I can be that. But I'm also safe. I'm also a person that will say, I was the Kool Aid Man. I was too much. You're right. That's healing her past traumas. So when we're talking about spark, it's not just sexuality and stuff. It's like, how are our wounds going to reconcile themselves in this relationship? And you could be on a date with somebody who is funny, who is girly, all these things. So when you say, I want them to play with me, you're like, I want someone who was also robbed of their childhood. This is just a guess. I'm not a professional. But when wounds line up, you can heal them together.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

It's funny you say that because I've heard so many different things about that. Where. Don't go out with someone who is like, you don't go out with someone now. It's different. So, like, I don't want to date someone who has the same energy, the same needs to be the center of attention. You know, this. This sort of. But I know what you're saying, and. But they'll still say that. They'll say, you know, you want somebody who has a good family, you want somebody who had a good childhood. You want somebody who has patience with you. You want somebody who. All the things you didn't get, those are the things you want in a woman or in a person. And so, you know, if someone doesn't have patience with me is someone. If I. If I think I said this to an ex girlfriend once. I said, you know, I think about when I'm playing music, and if I do another live show and I get up and the only person that I'd be really nervous about playing in front of is you.

[Pete Holmes]

Me, Pete Holmes?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No. Is the proverbial you that girl? Yeah. And it wasn't. It was just like. And I figured out why. And I told her. I said, because.

[Pete Holmes]

She. She.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Because. She said, why? And I said, because I think that if you see me fail, if you see me suck, you'll go away. You'll. You'll. You'll. You'll leave.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Rosie, I. I feel you so hard right now. I feel you being so hard right now. I'm just saying, like, the love that you need is that good, good, unconditional. I'm gonna say this. I've said it a million times. It's not even embarrassing anymore. The first time I said it was embarrassing, I was like, well, my daughter is 5. Well, in 10 years, she'll kind of have an awareness of what her dad does. And I'm like, what if in 10 years I'm not doing anything cool, right? And my wife goes, you'll be her dad. Like, what the fuck are you talking about? And you. It sounds like I'm relating. We both need that sort of. Like, what are you talking about? You're my person. I don't care if you stunk.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I need a guarantee.

[Pete Holmes]

You need someone to. You need something that loves, that transcends your Persona. In fact, personality comes from Persona, which comes from mask. This is what James Finley taught me. And in a relationship, we're finding someone that we can trust to slowly take our masks off and look at each other nakedly and say, I see who you really are, and it's okay. And that's a risk for both parties.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

That's so scary.

[Pete Holmes]

I know that's why.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Well, you.

[Pete Holmes]

But you're on the. Not. You don't need my encouragement. I'm just saying you're on the right track, knowing that that's what you're looking for.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Someone who can be compassionate and patient and.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And why do you think I said those things? Why. Why do you think I said that to this person? Why do you think I said.

[Pete Holmes]

You were hoping that they would say, don't be stupid.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Well, no, well, of course, but, like. Because I have always felt that, you know, it's like, you know, they always say, oh, be careful when everything's going great and you're doing this, and you're doing this. Everybody wants to hang out with you, but wait till you're not. Wait to see who's around when you're not doing Well, I wasn't that cute.

[Pete Holmes]

When they didn't have no loot. Tribe Called Quest.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah, but.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that's your. But when I say wound, I'm not saying it is a bad thing. That's our wound.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm not shiny. And also, I would be. It's. In my case, it's derivative of how I look at other people. I'm like, you better be impressive or I'm not going to like you. And where did I learn that? I don't know. And I'm working on that, by the way. Yeah, but we just got a new dog. This is going to sound like a tangent. I'm so impressed with this dog, and I love him. And we had famously, my. My older dog. I had. I had more issues with that dog. And now I have this, like, big, impressive, handsome dog. And I'm like, God damn. And I'm like, fuck, I'm so obvious. You know what I mean? Not only do I have to be impressive, but my dog has to be impressive. Like, what a joke. Where did I learn this?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I know, like, everything.

[Pete Holmes]

We're so hard on ourselves and others.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

It's. It's true. It is true. You know, it's. Yeah, I. It's funny because I tend to be everyone's cheerleader in a lot of ways. I'm the one who's like, I. I feel I want to see them succeed. I want to see them. But also I have that fear that, again, they'll abandon you.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You know, oh, wait till my friend Rob has a girlfriend that he's in love with. And then he won't have any time for me anymore. We won't be having rehearsal anymore. Oh, wait till so and so becomes a big. Yeah, they're gonna forget about me. It's happened in my life before, so there's always been that stuff with me. And. And it's.

[Pete Holmes]

It's.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

It's. It's okay because I understand it now that I go to therapy.

[Pete Holmes]

I.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Being here, hearing your advice. Yeah, because you've lived it and are living it. And so this. These are good things to hear because.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, the not aloneness is going to help. I think that's why we're talking about this. But there had to be a certain degree of abandonment from your family. And then even the families, your surrogate families, your friend families, those just kind of, by default, do kind of fall away.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because. Yeah, I mean, it's just what it is. And then. And you tell me a lot of times people with abandonment stuff, I won't say issues will go, like, let's just end this, because we know that's where it's going anyway. Like, let's just. Let's just call this. Why draw it out. And then also to be the one that ends it. I'm gonna punch you in the face before you can punch me at the McDonald's. I bring everything in. I bring everything in at the end.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah, that's good.

[Pete Holmes]

We're not gonna figure it out. It's just beautiful. I think people are gonna get a lot of value out of you and your honesty. And people do love you and what you're sharing and what you give. It's really powerful. I loved when I did your podcast. Podcast?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah, I love it. And you're coming back.

[Pete Holmes]

I'll come back anytime. But, like, it's really. You've made your wound useful. I have.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And I. And I never. You know, it's funny. It was the podcast. I think I've told you this, but, you know, at first, people like, you have a good voice. You're an actor. You know, people, you can make some money. And I'm like, okay, great. And I started doing a podcast, and nobody was really listening. And then I was like, what am I doing this for? And then no one's really listening. And then I'm, like, about to quit. And then something keeps me going. And then one day, I started just being really honest and talking about my life and talking about mental health and dysfunction and anxiety and all these things that I never really talked about. And people started to gravitate towards it because I was being real and I didn't understand it. And then it became something that is just like this. This family. And it's. It's. It's awesome because I feel like it is, it's a safe zone.

[Pete Holmes]

It is.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And it's safe for me. It's safe for the audience. They also, they learn a lot of training wheels. Yeah. Yeah. Like I'm growing up, Pete.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, but training wheels are good and growing up is good. Yeah. Like doing it in this parasocial way, one sided was a nice way for people like us. I always say this, but. And Katie will laugh. It's true. When we started, I was like, I don't, I'm not going to talk about my divorce. It's too embarrassing.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Lo and behold, episode two.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. I mean, slow gas leak, just more and more and more and more and more. And now we're just like, there's a shorthand. And, and that, that was me as an achiever going, you'll only love me if I'm shiny. Going, like, well, here's a time I shit my pants. Here's the time I did this. And, and then, then the fan base grew. We should all be so lucky to be celebrated for our flaws. And you don't have to be a podcaster.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Isn't that funny?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Isn't that funny what you're saying? I mean, it's almost like you're getting rewarded for being honest. Yeah, we are getting rewarded for telling our story, for being direct as we can be, for talking about things that no one talks about. And it's a beautiful thing. And on top of it, we're, we are, we're, it's, we're receiving love, we're feeling. It's cathartic and mutually benefit. I mean, you never want to talk about your divorce. And then you sold a show, sort of loosely based and, and it really kicked everything off in a lot of ways. And you never thought in a million years that would happen. You know, I didn't think that would happen either with me, with me, with, you know, you know, writing stories and talking about my childhood. And the first thing I wrote, I sold. And it was about my childhood and it was the first thing they always see. Write what you know.

[Pete Holmes]

Right, right. What? You know, I always think about Kumail. When he was coming up, I tried to get you, Camille. You already had him.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I welcome him. He's come on twice and on my face.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, my God. But when Kumail was coming up, we started together and he obviously and rightly didn't want to do any, anything about his life. He didn't want to be known as a, as a Pakistani comedian. So he had very non tied to as Deep whatever. His background material, and then his first big break movie, the Big Sick, was all about all the stuff that he didn't want to talk about. Not just what happened with his partner, but also arranged marriages and all these cultural things. And there it is. But there's like, these aren't just clues to how to make it in podcasting or movies. These are. The universe rewards certain behaviors, and we're drawn in the same way. I can't quite articulate it, but in the same way. It. We see it in matter, we see it in chemicals, we see it under the microscope. We just see there's a law of something going where if it's. I was just watching this thing about how they're throwing away the time space model. They're doing all these throwing protons at things, colliders and all that stuff. And I can't explain it, so please forgive my layman's explanation, but let's say they're in one of those huge proton collider things and science are doing it. And all these experiments presume space time. And when they do the experiment, it prints out like 350 pages of math. And they're like, Jesus Christ, it would take a supercomputer seven days running constantly to do this equation. Then they drop space time. And one of the things that's happening in physics, in certain areas of physics, is that they're saying space time is unreliable. It's not. It's not true. It's. It's not actually what we thought it was. So they're removing space time from these, from these exams, from these tests. And then the math that comes out is like three equations that you could do in your head. And they. They see this as, like these indications, these winks. I heard Rupert Spira talking about this with a scientist. It's like the universe going warmer, warmer. So even mathematically and scientifically, there's these rewards for, like. That's right, keep it simple, keep it lean, keep it small, and we'll give you these little breadcrumbs that let you know you're onto something. Look, it's three equations. It was 3,000 equations. Now it's three equations. You might be onto something. Maybe space time isn't what you think it is. Similarly, and I know this might sound like a jump, you're sharing your heart, and then your heart starts to blossom in the same way that a flower gets sunlight and soil and water. There's equations to everything. And I'm not saying there's a universal theory. I'm Just saying, there's feedback. There's feedback everywhere you look. Which is why the advice I always give people is, follow the dream that's following you. Because there's feedback. You'll start getting math back. That's simpler relationally. You'll get math back. And you go, I can do this in my head. It's not as complicated. It's elegant, it's lean, it's clean. That's how you know in everything.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

By the way, having a good teacher helps simplify things. Sometimes I need simplifying. I remember in high school, I didn't do well. I was all over the place. No one had patience with me. But then a teacher came in as a substitute, and it was literature. English and literature.

[Pete Holmes]

Mr. Bergstrom.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No, Mrs. Muller. And her disposition was just so. I just felt like, ah, she's so nice. I want to listen to her.

[Pete Holmes]

She's.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Oh, she was my mom. And she starts talking about Romeo and Juliet. That was. We're going to study. And I was scared. I was like, I. I don't. I don't like reading. I don't like. And she made it so interesting.

[Pete Holmes]

She's like the Capulets.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And there's these family and then the Montagues and these two families. And she would tell the story. And I get like a B plus that semester. And it's because somebody.

[Pete Holmes]

Just.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I just reacted to something. I reacted to her. Her being, her. Her personality, her patience.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

For sure. All these things. And I think that helps. Simplifying things does help. But coming from a. Especially a kid, or even when you're sitting here in layman's terms, of talking about someone making everyone. Not going over people's heads.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Just talking about the simple things, whether it's love, whether it's mental health, whatever it is. And just being raw and honest, and it just. I think it. It's attractive. I was attracted to how she was presenting this.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

What she was talking about. And I wanted to invest in that.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. I would say that Romeo and Juliet was the excuse for her to transmit something that was way different from the curriculum. And that's what we relate to.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

With any teacher and any person in any date. In the same way that you might be picking up on a date. Oh, this person's wound mirrors mine. When you meet someone who's, like, grounded in. We could say, love or their being.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Or their self, and they transmit that through the curriculum of Romeo and Juliet, you're picking up on something way more special than just.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah. There were those people you know, those, I think those people along the way that you need those people that show interest in you, they believe in you, and there aren't many, and you don't need a lot. I mean, if you have that one person who believes in you, it, it just can change your life. And, and there are those people along the way. There's a handful of.

[Pete Holmes]

Yep.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

That just gave me enough to keep going.

[Pete Holmes]

You ever had him on the pod?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No.

[Pete Holmes]

Because I'd recommend it. I had Mr. Brown on my pod. On this pod, which was.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

That's pretty.

[Pete Holmes]

My high school teacher.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Write that down.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, we gotta go. Meaning of life, God dead, over. Do you think when we die it's over?

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No, I, I don't, I don't want to think that. I, I watched your stand up special and how you talk about nothing.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And it's just, I, you know, I agree with you. Well, what's nothing? Nothing is nothing.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah. So out there creating universes.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So don't be afraid of it. I.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Look, I don't know what it is, but there's something inside of me innately that I just, I'm not a religious person. I don't go to temple or church, but I have a tough time with people saying, I am atheist. I don't believe in anything. And I don't, I, I just don't understand that. And I don't know. For me, I, I just have this, this feeling, I have this faith, call it faith that there's something else. And I like to think that. And I don't. And it's funny, I don't think that because I want to go to heaven, so I got to believe. It's just something I just feel. And I see it every day with little things. I go, ha. How is, how is, how is that possible?

[Pete Holmes]

Ah.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And there are those little things, those little clues that were given. And so because my grandmother says, you know, I really.

[Pete Holmes]

She's.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

She's been so sad after my grandpa passed. Even now after spending a couple years and you know, someone will say, oh, yeah, God, or something. I go, you know what? Blanche is going to see Irv again. She's going to. She goes, that's nice, Mikey. I like to believe that too. I'm like, you believe what you want to believe. And, you know, I wish it was quantifiable. Yeah. But I just don't think that's it. The lights are out and there's nothing left. Maybe we. The spirit transcends. Maybe. I don't know. I'm not A I would say if.

[Pete Holmes]

I can offer one thing before you have to go, is that your intuition that there's something else. The knowingness that you are the being that you are, consciousness that you are, that's the mystery that you're going, like I keep coming back to it. It's what you are. Yeah, you're not, as you might be, seeing little winks and clues from the universe. I think that's definitely part of the game. But it's that with which you're seeing. In the Upanishads they say that it's not that which the eye can see, it's that whereby the eye can see it's seeing, it's perceiving, it's consciousness. So when people go around going, like, I don't know why, but I can't shake that something's going on here, it's because it's you, it's you. The spring of, we call it the spring of life. But what with, what is your experience known? That is the secret that is God. God isn't something. We don't look out at God, we look out from God. And God isn't a being, God is being itself. So you're as close to the fucking jackpot as you could be. So no wonder you're going around going like, I don't know. I also will say in defense of our atheist friends, the beautiful atheists that I know, they don't say, they don't go around going, I don't believe it. They go, I don't see the evidence for it. So.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

But again, you don't see the evidence that there's not.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. I, I exactly. I mean, yeah, they can be more gentle in it. It's funny and I have friends that.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Are atheists that I love to death, but I'm like, how do you just not in your side of you not want faith and have faith in something?

[Pete Holmes]

Well, I would say that with which you're looking for evidence is the evidence.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Well, not only that, but like, I mean this has been talked about ad nauseam, but like, you know, I just keep rewinding and I go, well, if, you know, single cell organisms, okay, well who made those? Okay. And then before that, the Big bang theory and how that happened. And then before that there was there was just blackness. Right. Number Blackness is something. So keep rewinding, keep going, keep going. Why? Why? Why? Just it just, it things just happen for no reason.

[Pete Holmes]

They just keep happening.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

And, and, and evolution. And it just, I mean I believe.

[Pete Holmes]

In evolution, but it just, it's just.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

It's just so absurd to also think that way. That we weren't created in a way that. That's just how I feel.

[Pete Holmes]

Right? I see. I see the potential for arrogance on both sides. I know exactly. I know it's God. I know there's no God. It's always in the middle.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

It's always in the middle. And maybe that's the way it's supposed to be. Because you know what if everybody knew there was a God. No killing. I'm just. I'm gonna be perfect. And I'm. Or I'm. I don't. You know what I mean? I. I pray to you. And I. You know.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Where's the juice? It's more fun this way. Alan Watts called it hide and seek. We're playing hide and seek with ourselves. Yeah. So let's do some ketamine and we'll call it a day. You gotta go. Doctor.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yes. Godspeed, Neck doctor.

[Pete Holmes]

Hope you lose your erection by the time you put that gown on.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Hopefully I'll be able to use my r. HP as soon as I can.

[Pete Holmes]

Rock hard pants.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

This has been a treat. I really had fun.

[Pete Holmes]

I never.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

By the way, I never talk on podcasts this long.

[Pete Holmes]

You told me you were like, I don't want to talk.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Do more than an hour. I'm not.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm boring. You were a gem. But you.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

But we talked almost two hours and I'm like. I love this.

[Pete Holmes]

It's always. The second hour too. Is the best. That's why I tried to talk you out of it. That's why I was like. You got to. You just gotta trust.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I'm glad I got here a tad early. Just a few minutes so we can get in. And we just got into it.

[Pete Holmes]

Well. You're beautiful.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

You're beautiful and I really. I learn a lot from you. I love the human being you are. Keep being that way and say that.

[Pete Holmes]

That's how we sign off.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Keep it crispy, folks.

[Pete Holmes]

Balding. You had a great head of hair. I just saw your whole head of hair. It looks great.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Really? That's a little in the back.

[Pete Holmes]

What are you. That's really.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

That's really. Ryan.

[Pete Holmes]

Just kidding. Yeah. What are you, 60? You don't expect a little in the back. I'm just kidding. You're not 60.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

No. It's happening. I'm taking Propecia. We'll see you then.

[Pete Holmes]

Propecia.com. inside of you.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

I'm not. They're not a.

[Pete Holmes]

Sponsor them then.

[Michael Rosenbaum]

Yeah. Magic mind forever.

[Pete Holmes]

It.