Sona Movsesian

Summary

You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes – Sona Movsesian (July 29, 2026)

Episode Overview

In this lively and heartfelt episode, Pete Holmes welcomes Sona Movsesian—author, podcaster, and beloved co-host from Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend—for her first appearance on You Made It Weird. The conversation oscillates between hilarious riffs, sincere discussions about trauma and resilience, parenting, fame, and the unique weirdness of life. With their long-standing friendship and comedic chemistry, Pete and Sona move seamlessly from tales of personal loss (Sona’s house fire) to deep dives on comedy, coping, and the joys and anxieties of modern living.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Processing Loss and Perspective

• Sona’s House Burning Down

  • Sona talks candidly about the trauma of losing her house and possessions in a fire (04:01).
  • Insight: Even devastating loss, over time, shifts in perspective. Sona shares:
    “The thing that I’m finding really interesting is how small such a big event in my life looks when I look at other things going on… it’s just stuff.” ([05:17])
  • She admits missing irreplaceable relics, like childhood journals and autographed photos, but also acknowledges her fortune in being insured and supported.

• Intergenerational Perspective:

  • Sona reflects on her upbringing as the descendant of Armenian genocide survivors, giving her a deep sense of proportion.
    “My grandparents, my dad’s parents, were both orphans because of the genocide… so when I was like, ‘oh, my Kobe Bryant picture,’ there’s a part of me that’s like, okay.” ([48:04])

Fame, Comedy, and Professional Weirdness

• On Accidental Fame:

  • Sona discusses her unlikely rise from assistant to podcast co-host and author. She’s recognized but enjoys a comfortable, “Disneyland-level” fame ([34:03]).
  • Pete underscores the value Sona brings to the Conan team:
    “Everything around her better.” ([31:07])

• Comedy, Audience, and Self-Worth:

  • Pete and Sona contrast their responses to performing—Pete’s need for validation and perfection vs. Sona’s more relaxed attitude.
    Sona: “If it goes well, cool. If it doesn’t, that’s cool too.” ([66:24])
    Pete: “Who am I if it went like that?” ([66:43])
  • The two reflect on how childhood experiences and family roles shape their work in entertainment.

Parenting and Generational Change

• Honest Parenting Talk:
  • Sona bravely admits that some family activities, like Disneyland, are objectively more enjoyable without kids!
    “There’s a part of me that’s like, this is better without you guys.” ([35:59])
  • The conversation moves to how they handle food and body image comments with their own children, actively trying to avoid negative cycles inherited from their parents ([56:29]).
  • Both marvel at how perspectives on “ass out” fashion and generational confidence have shifted:
    Sona: “The younger generations, like, it’s not for anybody. It’s for me. I dress like this because I like my body and enjoy how I feel.” ([52:26])

Friendship, Social Styles, and Authenticity

• The Value of Laughers:

  • Pete celebrates Sona's (and his wife Valerie’s) role as generous, authentic laughers—people who make comedians shine and create warm social environments.
    “Valerie’s a genius and she’s better and she makes me better. She makes everybody better. Let’s get her on the podcast. I think Conan had a similar thing with you.” ([31:10])
  • Sona: “I have so many friends,” and credits deep friendships for her joy ([62:17]).

• Introvert vs. Extrovert Comedy Brains:

  • They joke about “freaks in the dark” versus the “spaciousness and freedom” of their wives’ social instincts ([64:13]).

Culture, Identity, and Family Roots

• Heritage Stories:
  • Sona shares the quirks of Armenian/Turkish record-keeping (like village “birth certificate guys” on goats), experiences of dual identity, and taking Conan to Armenia for the first time ([43:06]).
  • Pete reflects on his Lithuanian roots, his mother’s emigration, and the shared trauma and resilience in both families ([47:25]).

Show Business & Modern Media

• The Evolution of Showbiz:
  • Pete and Sona discuss the difference between old-school TV (slow incubation, hands-on producers) and the modern “data-driven” approach that prizes content volume and flashy trends ([88:12]).
  • On Podcasts: Both agree podcasting allows for more authentic, human, and experimental content ([87:15]).

On Substance Use and Well-Being

• Experiences with Drinking and Sobriety:

  • Both have moved away from alcohol after becoming parents, seeing its downsides for family life ([76:12]).
  • Sona: “Now it’s more just like… I don’t need to do it anymore.” ([77:35])
  • They also discuss using edibles/weed to decompress and be more present at home ([78:24]).

• Addiction and Moderation:

  • Pete confesses to all-or-nothing relationships with sugar and processed foods, relating to a wider dialogue on health anxiety fueled by podcasts/info overload ([74:03], [107:24]).

Life, Death, and What Comes After

• Spirituality and Loss:
  • The pair trade stories about loved ones passing, dreams, and whether there’s life after death.
    Sona: “I just don’t believe someone that special could exist and then not exist anymore.” ([111:19])
  • Pete shares a poetic analogy about souls and rivers:
    “You, Sona, are like a localized little whirlpool… that whirlpool dissipates, but it becomes more available. It’s contributed to the river.” ([115:42])

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Tragedy and Perspective
  Sona: “Losing the house is bad. But then when you think about, okay, we came out of it, we have insurance, we have support… It almost is just stuff.” ([06:28])
• On Fame
  Sona: “If I can call a place like Nobu Malibu day of and get a table… I know I’ve made it. That’s famous.” ([33:27])
• On Comedy & Neediness
  Pete: “A lot of us equated our ability to, like, control a group with our safety… Not getting a laugh isn’t as bad as being misunderstood.” ([60:30])
• On Parenting at Disneyland
  Sona: “There’s a part of me that’s like, this is better without you guys.” ([35:59]) Pete: “That’s normal.” ([36:03])
• On Authentic Enjoyment
  Pete: “Laughing people, which are my favorite people… she (Valerie) has tons of friends. People love Valerie. You have lots of friends. I tried to do a joke about this… Frankenstein’s in the crowd. They didn’t want to out themselves, all the weirdos like myself.” ([62:42])
• On Sugar Addiction
  Pete: “If you put me in a room with a box of Oreos, I’ll fuck it… That’s addiction.” ([72:57])
• On Afterlife
  Sona: “When my grandma died… I just don’t believe someone that special could exist and then not exist anymore.” ([111:19])
• On Conan O’Brien as a Boss
  Sona: “He is exactly who you hope he would be. And as his employee, it’s the best place to work. Like, no one leaves if they can help it.” ([119:51])

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Memorable Exchanges

• [35:59] On Parenting at Disneyland
  • Sona: “There’s a part of me that’s like, this is better without you guys.”
  • Pete: “Of course.”
• [66:24] On Caring About Results
  • Sona: “If it goes well, cool. If it doesn’t, that’s cool, too.”
• [121:31] On Conan's Humor
  • Sona: “He will turn it up to 11 if he’s performing for a thousand people or even one person. And when you are on the other side of being that one person, it is the biggest joy.”
• [123:47] On Surprise Performance Gigs
  • Pete: “There’s only a couple times in my career… I didn’t know I was the show.”

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Important Timestamps

• [04:01] – Sona opens up about her house burning down: grief, regret, and perspective
• [31:09] – Pete discusses Sona’s and his wife’s gift for “calling out the bullshit” in funny friends
• [34:03] – Sona talks about her level of fame and what “real fame” looks like
• [56:29] – Nutrition, aging, and generational cycles about food and bodies
• [62:17] – Sona on long-term friendship and laughers
• [74:03] – Pete’s confessional on sugar addiction/all-or-nothingness
• [87:15] – Why podcasts “work” and how they differ from traditional media
• [119:51] – Sona on Conan's authenticity as a boss
• [121:31] – Sona describes the joy of being the one who makes Conan laugh in private

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Tone & Style

Throughout the episode, Pete and Sona’s conversation is playful, self-deprecating, and honest—a blend of deep introspection and absurd comedy. They weave between personal stories, social observations, cultural analysis, and riffs that “would just go right by other people” ([14:25]). Their rapport yields both heartfelt moments and rapid-fire banter, making even serious topics like grief, trauma, and the afterlife feel accessible and human.

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Personal loss is put into perspective over time, especially against the backdrop of family history and global suffering.
• Resilience, humor, and good company—more than objects or status—are what count in the long run.
• Comedy, for Pete and Sona, is not just performance but a coping tool, a way to seek connection, and sometimes a product of deep-seated childhood needs.
• Podcasts are cherished not just for information but because they recreate the intimacy and safety of communal conversation.
• Even the “world’s worst assistant” can find her place as an author, podcast star, and role model—and her secret is that she’s just herself.

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Sona's Upcoming Work

• Sona plugs her next book, The World’s Worst Mom, out September 1st.

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Closing

The episode wraps with gratitude, laughter, warm memories of working together, and the affirmation that Sona’s weirdness, warmth, and laughter are here to stay—on Conan’s couch, Pete’s podcast, and beyond.

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Keep it crispy!

Transcript

[A]

Lemonade

[B]

Are you looking for ways to make your everyday life happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative? I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one bestselling author of the Happiness Project, bringing you fresh insights and practical solutions in the Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast. My co host and happiness guinea pig is my sister, Elizabeth Craft. That's me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore ideas and hacks about cultivating happiness and good habits. Check out Happier with Gretchen Rubin from Lemonada Media. Hey there, it's Julia Louis Dreyfus. I'm back with a new season of Wiser Than Me, the show where I sit down with remarkable older women and soak up their stories, their humor and their hard earned wisdom. Every conversation leaves me a little smarter and definitely more inspired. And yes, I'm still calling my 91 year old mom Judy to get her take on it all. All episodes of Wiser Than Me from Lemonada Media are out now. Wherever you get your podcasts, You made

[A]

it Weird with Pete Holmes. What's happening weirdos? This is an exciting one. This is my friend Sonam of Cess and she is the co host. You most likely know her as the co host of Conan o' Brien Needs a Friend. I know her as one of the most interesting, engaging, funny people I know and one of the best laughers in the world and just an absolute joy and a delight to be in the room with. So I was so glad that we finally were able to make this happen. Sona has a book available right now, the World's Worst Assistant is, and then she has a new one called the World's Worst Moment which is coming out this year. So check out Sona as a podcaster. Check her out as a wonderful author as well. She is Conan's old assistant and now she's Conan's co host and she brings so much to that show and so much to life and so much to this show. I have this old parking pass from when I first met with Conan to discuss what became the Pete Holmes Show. So it's this really important meeting for me and it's framed in my office and I took it out of the frame and I looked at the back and the person that gave me that pass with Sona. So she and I have been friends for a very, very long time. This is her first time on the show, but I don't believe it will be her last. And I'm so glad you guys are here. Not much to plug. I do want to say from Madison, Wisconsin, coming up we just added a late Thursday show because the first five sold out. Thank you very, very much, everybody. And there are now tickets available to the late Thursday show. You can get [e-mail] for Madison, Wisconsin. I also think we're going to be filming those shows for the new hour special. So it's going to be a very, very special weekend. Hope you can be there. In Madison, Wisconsin. Comedy on State. Also, I'm about to be in Portland, Maine, and Verona, I believe, Romeo and Juliet, Verona, New York. And there's a lot of tickets available for those, I'm told, so go to PeteHomes.com if you're an east coast weirdo and want to see me out there, I hope you can. And that's all I'm going to plug. The Specials are on YouTube. All the tour dates are on Pete holmes. We're doing August 11th, I will say is our next Largo. It's me and Ray Romano and Nicole Byer. I believe it's gonna be amazing. So hopefully you can be at the Largo show. In the meantime, enjoy my chat with the wonderful Sona. Get into it. Let's start with house burn down stuff. What? Bummer. Are you tired of talking about it?

[B]

I'm not. It actually has helped.

[A]

Does it help?

[B]

Are we recording?

[A]

May we?

[B]

Yeah. No, I'm fine talking about it.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

Talking about it.

[A]

It's a bit of a leading question, but is. Is there any unexpected feeling or experience like everyone knows? Devastating.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Uprooting, listless, lost.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

All of these things. But what. What don't people know?

[B]

I think that.

[A]

About losing your house, in case you just tuned in.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. About me. My house burning down.

[A]

Sona's house burned down.

[B]

My house burned down. Along with all the. He would burn down my house as a burglar bit if he thought it was funny. If he thought he could get some good funny stuff out of it.

[A]

What is that meatiness? Not a lot. No. Not a lot of riffs on Conan's. Because he could.

[B]

Yes, he could.

[A]

He could afford to do that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He could afford to burn your house down.

[B]

He could. He would just. How much do you need to build it here?

[A]

Yes, exactly. Yes. He has it in a sock.

[B]

He has it in his couch cushion.

[A]

Yeah. He's just like, you know, you might find 35, 50 cents in your couch. Yeah, that's grand.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Grand.

[B]

But I think. I really think the thing that I'm finding really interesting is how small such a big event in my life looks when I Look at other things that are going on.

[A]

Wait, the Hurst Breakdown?

[B]

As in, like, to me, it's the most devastating thing that ever happened. But then when you think about everything else that's going on, it seems like you're okay. You're. You're okay.

[A]

You mean globally?

[B]

Globally, Just like, in your life. In your life. I mean, I was talking to someone today whose husband just got diagnosed with Alzheimer's, and she says, like, early onset.

[A]

It sounds like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Unless you're just hanging out with some really old. No, she's older.

[B]

She's older.

[A]

Okay. But, like, I just want to detail. I'm not making fun of the Zymes.

[B]

Oh, no, no, no.

[A]

I'm certainly not calling it the Zymes. But if I, like, keep it light. It's a devastating illness. Keep it light.

[B]

It's terrible. It's terrible. And I'm like, yes, it's inconvenient. Yes, it's awful. Yes, we lost our.

[A]

Not Alzheimer's. We're talking about your Alzheimer'. Yeah.

[B]

I mean, the Alzheimer's is whatever. No, I mean, that's the. The house. Losing the house is bad. But then when you think about, okay, we came out of it, we have insurance, we have support.

[A]

So am I hearing you right? There's like a. It's just stuff.

[B]

It almost is just stuff. When I think about the stuff, I really miss the stuff.

[A]

You do miss the stuff.

[B]

I feel like we accumulate. Oh, my God. I talk about this specific thing. I. So I had a signed Kobe Bryant picture, and it was personalized. I had assigned personalized sign signed Jimmy Carter photo. And then, you know, like, things. My parents gave me a whole box full of my childhood stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, like, my journals and, like, movie stubs and, like, mementos and pictures. All of that is gone.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The thing that's weird is it does feel like.

[A]

Did you have time to grab all that stuff? You did?

[B]

No.

[A]

You.

[B]

Oh, I had time, but I didn't.

[A]

You didn't do it.

[B]

The reality of a house burning down was just not in my mind. Not in your mind purview. It was not something positive.

[A]

Thinking didn't help.

[B]

It didn't.

[A]

You were like, it's going to be fine.

[B]

I. I have two friends who are marines, and they took everything. They went room to. Room to. And I don't know if this is a marine thing.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. They clear the room, but they were

[B]

just like, what do we want from this room? What do we want from this room? It was, like, around. It was January 7th, so people still had some of their like Christmas trees up. And my friend, he said his parents would give him an ornament every year and he just like took all of them.

[A]

And I'm like, that's foresight.

[B]

That is cool.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. You were like just whispering, all my stuff died.

[B]

I mean burned.

[A]

Burned.

[B]

It kind of died. It did.

[A]

And, well, it's funny. Obviously all those dead things are set.

[B]

You okay?

[A]

Nope.

[B]

Jesus, Pete. Oh, Jesus, Pete. Oh, Jesus. What happened? What happened? What's this? What's a magic mind don't work a

[A]

brand sponsorship into this organic moment.

[B]

Magic mind, huh?

[A]

You can drink it. You'll love it.

[B]

Is it good?

[A]

Yes. I just had my second one. You're gonna love it. Too much maybe. I mean, I'm belching in involuntary ways.

[B]

Is it like a little smoothie?

[A]

Nope. Matcha nootropics, adaptogens and a pleasant taste. Some gigantism. It's a Simpsons reference. I assume you don't get it.

[B]

I don't.

[A]

Wouldn't want you to. Don't want you to.

[B]

Okay, then I don't. What am I doing?

[A]

You're having all the liquids.

[B]

Okay,

[A]

well, when you're saying that box of stuff from your past, I'm not trying to be weird, but like that sauna is dead.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know what I mean. So you had this box of stuff that was like, this is from when I was. And you're no longer.

[B]

It feels like everything that I had that was in that box, plus the 20 plus years that I lived outside of home don't exist anymore. Yeah, by everything I accrued in that world in that time is gone. So it's like my life started now a year and a half ago when I had to start from scratch.

[A]

This is the leading question. Does any of that feel kind of like, oh, do you ever feel kind of like you just showed up on the shore of Mexico and you're like, I don't.

[B]

I think it would have if I didn't have kids. But I would have one day like to have shown my kids.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is a weird person your mom was when she was young. Here are her journals. Like, take a look at that psyche. Like, you know, Marine did. I know, I know, I know. But you know, nobody knew it was going to happen.

[A]

And we were talking off mic about how Conan could have just so easily, easily buy you another house.

[B]

He could have just bought me a house.

[A]

No big deal.

[B]

It's. I mean, he employs me. So I guess in a way he's

[A]

sort of very slowly trickle buying You a house. One medicine dropper per month.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Barely squeaking you by.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Because if he did buy you a house, you might not work for him anymore. This is the capitalistic fear.

[B]

No, I'm always gonna work for Conan.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Who else would I work.

[A]

You're Sisyphusian.

[B]

Who else would I work for?

[A]

Her pushing a giant red headed boulder.

[B]

But I also, I love him.

[A]

Imagine.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

You should. As a gag.

[B]

As a gag.

[A]

Leno's at. I mean, he's burning her house down as a gag.

[B]

Oh, that's true, that's true, that's true. Me working for Jay. But then Jay would be like, you are clearly very Conan centric your entire career. Why would you want to work for me? And I would be a really bad mole. Yeah, I would be a terrible mole.

[A]

I'd be like, you'd give it up.

[B]

I'm just doing it for the bit Jay. And he'd be like, get the fuck out of office. Yeah. What is that?

[A]

Get out of there. Get out of here.

[B]

Is that. Get out of here.

[A]

He's not aging well. He sounds like this now.

[B]

Get the fuck out of here. It's sounds like a muffin.

[A]

You're Conan through and through.

[B]

Beat it.

[A]

Beat it. I see Jay Leno at the Comedy Store all the time. I'll probably see him tonight at the Comedy Store. He's at the Comedy Store all the time.

[B]

I have never seen him at the Comedy Store. I used to go to the Comedy Store a lot.

[A]

Bubba N Cho's Buos. He went there all the time. Yeah, and not anymore. If you did, you'd see Jay Leno, your new boss.

[B]

Oh, that's weird.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

How often do you go there?

[A]

I only go to the comic show probably once a month.

[B]

I mean, that's still a lot.

[A]

Is it?

[B]

Isn't it?

[A]

What do you do once a month?

[B]

Nothing. Do I do anything once a month?

[A]

Is there some sort of hair that you need to take care of? Like I'll trim my nose hairs once a month. I know it's rude to ask a lady this.

[B]

I. First of all, I'm Armenian. So you think I do it once a month? Try like several times a day. That's me. I have a five o' clock shadow already. Look at this. And I lasered. You don't think I took advantage of every hair removal system that exists? I did. And it still grows back. It's fighting against.

[A]

Wait, you did the permanent laser?

[B]

Yeah, I did.

[A]

And still won't. Still won't Armenia is like, no, no, no.

[B]

My jeans are like. That was cute.

[A]

Good. Try your J jeans. Grow jeans out of hair. J, E A N S. You got those hair jean jeans.

[B]

I do. I have hair jeans.

[A]

So that's once a month.

[B]

So that's. Yeah, that's okay. No, that's not. What's a day? No, but like. Okay. So do you go to other clubs? Do you like other clubs?

[A]

I love this. But you can't. You can't ask me questions. I'll just blab and bore.

[B]

Okay, I'm sorry.

[A]

No, you can't.

[B]

I'm just curious because you have to hone your craft.

[A]

I do hone my.

[B]

You have to work my craft.

[A]

Needs some honing. Have you seen. Needs some honing.

[B]

You have to work that muscle.

[A]

Well, yeah, I'm honing o'. Brien.

[B]

Also, do you love it still?

[A]

I do love it, and it's because I don't do it that often.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Yeah, it's a little bit like. Well, at the risk of being crass, it's a little bit like sex. If you have a lot of sex, of constantly having sex, it does lose a little novelty. It should be kind of like, oh, my God, I can't believe I'm having sex.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It can't be five times a day.

[B]

No, I know. No, you're right.

[A]

That's why swingers aren't happy. It doesn't work.

[B]

Swingers are not happy. I did. I've never heard that. You said that to me matter of factly.

[A]

Swingers are just people that are like, I'm going to have candy every meal.

[B]

I know.

[A]

It doesn't work.

[B]

Like, when do you have.

[A]

Doesn't work if you are just falling into sex constantly? Part of the fun of sex is the unexpectedness. The unexpectedness.

[B]

Say that again.

[A]

The unexectedness. And then I burp again.

[B]

That's great.

[A]

Then I make another.

[B]

That's a great word. That's gonna definitely.

[A]

Unexxedness.

[B]

It's gonna catch on.

[A]

Unexxtedness. See, this is why you're the best.

[B]

Oh, man.

[A]

These riffs would just go right by other people. All you're doing is shining your Maglite right on them, going like, you've been drinking tonight. You're a cop. The best kind.

[B]

I could be a.

[A]

You pull over the bits and you go, what was that? Unexxtedness. And that's such a delight.

[B]

But isn't it also awful when you're a comedian and someone's like, that was really weird.

[A]

What you just Said if I had five seconds to describe you, I would say funny and the best audience.

[B]

Oh, well, that's really nice.

[A]

Both. This is all we want. Love to laugh and shave my legs.

[B]

Play. Oh, and shave my legs constantly.

[A]

Armenia.

[B]

I carry my razor around with me everywhere. Do you really?

[A]

I don't like. Remember when Hillary Clinton pretended that she had hot sauce in her bag? I think about it once a day.

[B]

I don't even remember that.

[A]

When she was running for president, she did an interview in the south and they were like, you keep hot sauce in your bag. It was like a plant. It's like a planted question. She's like, of course I do.

[B]

And she.

[A]

Of course I do. And she opened her bag and had like, I have cholula.

[B]

And.

[A]

And it's like, no, you had like the price tag on it.

[B]

Yeah. God. That we have to jump through to make ourselves appealing, even though we just know something. Stuff. You mean, like, we can be very qualified, but we have to do.

[A]

Can't it be enough?

[B]

We'll have to do a whole song

[A]

and dance with hot songs and everybody have to be the whole thing. It's true of marital partners, too.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

It didn't used to be like, best friend, co parent, all this stuff. I'm glad it is, but it didn't always used to be that way. Now politicians have to be funny.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They have to be good looking. They have to dress well. They have to have good social graces. You know what I mean? Like what?

[B]

I want a nerd.

[A]

Give me a nerd. We are raving a nerd.

[B]

I am nerd. I just want to be like, I've memorized the constitution. And I'm sorry, but that is not the way it is.

[A]

That's actually not what it does. And if you'll excuse me, I need my nap. And then he naps, and then instead

[B]

of hot sauce, he's taking out his inhaler.

[A]

His inhaler.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he's got Advil. And he does have kind of like a satchel. He's got Advil and an inhaler, and he's just tired. I want a satchel. Pres. I'm tired of this entertainment economy.

[B]

Same. I'm also.

[A]

Why do front men of bands and women have to also write. I like it. They write the lyrics. But why? Why can't they just be awesome like Oasis? That dude didn't write the songs. It was fine.

[B]

Wait, really?

[A]

Yeah. His brother wrote him, famously.

[B]

Oh, that's right. Oh, okay. But one of them wrote it.

[A]

We. But We. We're such primates. But his brother wrote it.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

It's close enough.

[B]

It's close.

[A]

It's in his bloodline. We're fucking medieval. It's in the same lineage. But if it's this, if somebody's singing a song. Unless you're a pop star. Because, like, we were just talking about, like, Adele and all the. And Kelly Clarkson. They all, like, bid on songs. Some of them write their own songs, and I'm sure Adele and Kelly Clarkson writes some of their songs, but a lot of their hits are sometimes just like some Swedish guy. It's not a new take.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like they buy them. They make them their hits.

[B]

They. They. Yeah. It's like writing it is part of it. Then you have to sing it and feel it, and you have to, like. Like the. You know, my Mariah Carey used to be like, oh, yeah.

[A]

All the notes.

[B]

That is. That is so hard.

[A]

So hard.

[B]

Riffing. I'm not wet. Riffing. What is it called when they do scatting?

[A]

But it's called vocal permutation.

[B]

You know what it is? You know, when is it?

[A]

Scatting is when you're trying to be

[B]

like, this is like a love vocal. Is it like a riff?

[A]

Yeah, riffing.

[B]

Is it riffing?

[A]

I think it's a riff.

[B]

There's some. There's a name for it. And it's bugging me that I can't remember, but it's so. Like, I watched that musical. And Juliet. Have you heard of it?

[A]

And Juliet.

[B]

Yeah, and, like Ampersand and then Juliet.

[A]

We got rid of Romeo.

[B]

Well, yeah, the whole story is about Juliet. And it's. It's a jukebox. It's a jukebox musical.

[A]

And it's, you know, play, like, the hit. Like, it's all hits.

[B]

It's not original music. Yeah. Like Toto's Africa.

[A]

Oh, if only I were a Montague down in Africa. What hits are they playing?

[B]

Well, and that's the thing. I don't want to say it wrong, but I think they're all Max Martin hits. And I was like, well, who is Max Martin? Because I don't know. He's the guy who wrote every, like, in sync. Backstreet Boys, Britney Spears, Christina. Like, he's responsible for the early 2000s. It was him music. It was all him.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And see, that's who we want for

[A]

the president, the guy that actually writes the songs. We don't want Christina Aguilera. We want the guy that writes the song.

[B]

Yeah. Involved.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She's the inauguration.

[A]

I said this before.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There should be the real president, and we'll call him the president. And then there's the. The show president. You know what I mean? Like, there should be the person who does the job, and then there's the person who runs.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

And he's running. He's eaten ham steaks.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

He's sweating. He's like rollerblading down a. Down a. Like a curved scraper. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's doing all the crazy shit. He's good looking.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He's charming. And then they're like, what are your policies? And you're like, dale. And Dale comes out and he's like, well, of course we need to address global warming. You know what I mean? And then the cool president can be like, get out of here, nerd. And then he lights a sparkler and he's smoking it, but it's fucking charming. There should be the hype man. Like Flavor Flav.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then Chuck D. You know what

[B]

it's kind of like, you know in Singing in the Rain, how she's in the back singing and then the, like, blonde one is in the front. Lip sync.

[A]

This is what I'm saying.

[B]

Like, I get what you're saying.

[A]

We need a placeholder, and we gotta have it make the vice president the president.

[B]

I want the person. I want Dale to have his moment in the sun. I want people to know he exists. I think what you're saying is they're both in the public eye. One is just doing all the like that they have to do.

[A]

There should. And by the way, why are we taking the most. Presumably the most important, powerful person in the world? Why is he going around to, like, barns and talking about the dairy farm? Like, why have have a placeholder guy go and pander and pretend?

[B]

Well, we always think we're like, well, we want him to be the Everyman, but, like, we don't. I don't. I don't want him to be the everyman. I don't want him meeting corn at the Iowa State Fair, like.

[A]

Yeah. Judging a pie eating contest.

[B]

Yeah. Or her. I want. I.

[A]

Or her.

[B]

Or her. I. I want them to, like, be so busy, they just don't have time.

[A]

I agree. And this is why we're gonna have an AI president.

[B]

Yeah. No.

[A]

No, we won't.

[B]

I hope not.

[A]

I don't think so. But they're already. You know, Trump's using it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, he's using it poorly. Poorly. And without checking it poorly.

[B]

Like the photos that he Posts. And the videos that he posts.

[A]

That's right, those.

[B]

Is that what you mean by.

[A]

No, I just meant like he's consulting with it.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

What is a chief of staff?

[B]

I don't even know that. Oh, no.

[A]

What is a press secretary? Just kind of some. Some stuff slips out. They're like. Sir, have you considered the implications with NATO? One moment. What is NATO?

[B]

Oh, God.

[A]

Wouldn't you.

[B]

This is why we need Dale.

[A]

Yeah, Dale.

[B]

Like a good, competent Dale.

[A]

We need a good, competent Dale. And I want the flashy guy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I want like Guy Fieri.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then I want Bill Gates, basically.

[B]

Oh, Guy.

[A]

Guy Fieri is like, I love wings. And we're like, I could have a beer with this guy. And then Bill Gates is in the shadows. Coding.

[B]

Coding.

[A]

Coding. And drinking water.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He turned PP into drinking water. Did you see that?

[B]

I mean, he did. Oh, did he?

[A]

He did.

[B]

Oh. One of his, like non profit things.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. They found they made a machine that turned pp. These are scientific terms, Pee pee into drinking water. And he drank it.

[B]

He drank his own pee pee.

[A]

But I don't think it was. I don't even. It would have been better if it was his own. I think it was just a mix of. It was a blend. You ever get like a Cabernet Merlot?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The whole village is pee pee.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

And they turned it into water. And to show everybody that it was safe, he drank it.

[B]

He just drank his. He just drank a pee pee.

[A]

And he was like, you know.

[B]

But you know, I mean, when you're out into like on a boat in the middle of the ocean.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I don't even know if I would drink my own pee pee.

[A]

Then you shouldn't. It won't work.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah. You didn't know this didn't.

[B]

Here's the.

[A]

You thought you could drink your own pee pee.

[B]

Here's the funny thing. You know what quote I always think about? Do you know that movie Dodgeball? A true underdog story.

[A]

Oh, the subtitle as well. Do you know awesome Powers three the Spy who Shagged Me? It's two. You can't drink your own pee. Oh, she doesn't want to drink your own pee pee.

[B]

Let's put that in your history.

[A]

You definitely can't. There are people that do.

[B]

But there's a line that Corn says. And he goes, do I drink my own urine? Yes. Because it's sterile and I like the taste. Or something like that. So then when I was younger, I mean, I don't even know when that movie came out, I was like, oh, I guess we could drink our own PP if we have to. But if you're.

[A]

But then you digest again and then you get how many rotations before it comes out? Like Kool Aid powder.

[B]

That's.

[A]

Oh, it comes out like.

[B]

I guess if you could drink your own pee pee, then people would just drink their own pee pee when they're out somewhere where there's no water, but then you can't.

[A]

How. It's gross though, isn't it? Kind of fun gross. It's like. That's like some intelligent design, right? And I. You could also just say it's trial and error. Maybe our pee pee used to taste great and then those people drinking it died.

[B]

I think PP used to taste great.

[A]

I'm just saying it's either intelligent design. So there's some sort of benevolent intelligence guiding shaping to satisfy the scientific. We could say there was all different kinds of pee pee. This guy's pee pee tastes like blue Powerade. And they kept drinking it and they died. And the people whose taste like asparagus, they lived because they didn't drink it. What I'm saying is there's something beautiful about, like bees pollinate flowers. They. They have the same taste as us. Flies pollinate like fucking shit. Like. Yes. And like, we're like, aligned with the. So what smells and tastes good to us is safe. Yeah, that's fucking weird.

[B]

It is.

[A]

Your pee tastes bad.

[B]

And I feel like me to stop you just knowing myself. I'd be in the former camp. Like, I'd be one of the people that would die. And they'd be like, okay, don't do what she saw.

[A]

What she did.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, she drank her pee.

[B]

Yeah, she drank her pee pee. And that's just not the way to do.

[A]

I'm just thirsty. But this whole time I'm kind of like, if it was chilled.

[B]

If it was chilled.

[A]

Chilled and shaken. Strange.

[B]

Anything. Chill.

[A]

Elderberry. Good. Elderberry. This is like another topic. All good things have a bad. Like, we've been talking about how, like, with AI, like, we don't do perfect here.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Like, like this realm. Like, look to every myth for examples of. Like, that's just not something we do here.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If there's something perfect, there's a shadow to it.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And we even have that. I've. We've talked about this a million. But like cheese. Like a delicious cheese. There's usually something in the background that's kind of like farmy, Barney. Like a little bit gross.

[B]

Like Taste wise.

[A]

We like it. You want it to be complicated. And the. The one that I always say is, perfumes often have something a little rancid to them. We don't think about, like, if I sprayed something that just spelled. Smelled like strawberry shortcake, the doll in the 80s. Like, yeah, that's like a kid smell. Why? Yeah, it's just too obvious. Grown up smells are like, there's strawberry, but in the background, one sock.

[B]

Do you.

[A]

Just to anchor it.

[B]

But do you have an advanced nose and palate to taste that stuff?

[A]

No. This isn't me knowing. I wouldn't be the one that goes, like, do you know that there's, like, sauerkraut in your.

[B]

So we don't even. Because I don't notice it.

[A]

I've been told.

[B]

I don't know. But I do know this is, like, kind of off topic. I remember the first time I had the proper wine and cheese pairing.

[A]

And it blew your mind?

[B]

Blew my mind.

[A]

Really?

[B]

It was so.

[A]

Because I thought that was hogwash.

[B]

I don't have. I don't have a palette. I can't take. Like when I watch the Great British Baking show or whatever, and they're like, oh, there's notes of this. I'm like, how do you guys know this?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I'm with you.

[B]

It's amazing, huh?

[A]

Pipe tobacco.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just a little pipe tobacco. Yes. Nobody will know.

[B]

I don't notice the difference.

[A]

Skittles. Red Skittles.

[B]

I. I can't. What? Red Skittle.

[A]

Just if you're drinking wine.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Be like, I'm getting a little, like, overripe banana.

[B]

Yes. And how do you know your palate and your nose is better than someone else's? That you're like, I'm going to be a sommelier. Like, that's a good point.

[A]

Well, some people have them. That's a job. There are people with, like, intensely good palates that, like, work for, like, Frito Lay.

[B]

That's what I'm saying. How do you know that your palate is better than someone else's?

[A]

That means there's, like, an objective reality. Like, there is a way that a lay's potato chip tastes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And some people are tasting it more than other people. Are we stoned right now? I don't know.

[B]

It does feel like that.

[A]

Because you're, like, eating it. Some people experience it more. They do than others.

[B]

Like that moment of me doing the wine and cheese pairing. That was. Right. Is such a core memory for me because I remember one time and I've had so Much wine. And I've had so much cheese.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But that one time, and I remember I said to the waiter, this was that place called. I don't know if you remember this place called Pallet in. In Glendale.

[A]

What are the chances? We're talking about pallets.

[B]

That's right. It's called Palette. The place was called Palette.

[A]

Was it on a wooden.

[B]

It was across, like, a dealership on Brand Boulevard.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It wasn't the sexiest place, which is why it probably didn't thrive.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I remember I ordered a wine and then a cheese, and then I had them, and I look. You know that scene in Ratatouille where he's seeing colors.

[A]

Amazing.

[B]

And it's like when he eats a

[A]

strawberry and then he eats it with cheese.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. You were the rat and I was rat.

[B]

I was rat.

[A]

I was rat.

[B]

And so I told the waiter, I was like, why does this taste so good together? And she says, oh, they're from the same region. You just had the perfect wine and cheese pairing. And I'm like, can I be a sommelier?

[A]

Am I sommelier? But you know what's interesting to me about all experiences? I would want to know what mood you were in, how stress free you were.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Because if you were stressed and I gave you that exact wine and that exact cheese, you wouldn't have experienced it.

[B]

I will say I'm fascinated. I'm not a very stressed out person, and usually when I'm eating out with friends, I'm in a good place.

[A]

Fine. This is one of the reasons why people I. I do think people. Not to put myself with Conan, but I think the overly analytical, maybe a little neurotic types are drawn. Like, you remind me of my wife, Valerie.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just kind of like wine, cheese, people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I call Valerie the Humboldt Hobbit. She's from Humboldt. And I'm just like, you're just. Look at you.

[B]

She's from Humboldt.

[A]

Well, she spent a lot of time there. She loves weighted blankets and fires. Movies are good. She's not an idiot. She's a brilliant person.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

She just enjoys stuff. And I'm like, if you. If I'm, like, walking into a movie and you remind me of something I'm stressed about, even a little, it'll be like a pebble in my sandal, and I won't enjoy the movie.

[B]

You know what?

[A]

If I'm enjoying a movie, I'm actually enjoying my life.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And you're just like, well, tell me what that makes you think.

[B]

I was going to say, I think though, I feel like people like you and Conan want to be. There's like a part of you that wants to be more like stress free, less anxiety, all that stuff. But that also informs your work and your work thrives because if we got

[A]

struck by lightning and it went away, would be happy and would be. It would be ruined.

[B]

You, you wouldn't, you would not be able to produce the same stuff if you didn't have that in you.

[A]

But similarly, and I'm interested in your sort of unexpected celebrity. Like you, you weren't like chasing that and now you're the co host of one of the biggest podcasts in the world and a best selling author and all these things. I know, it's so fun.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I do want to say, like, I'm like, we all saw it. Come on, it's Sona. No, when you were young, we were all like, come on, that's a funny, fun person.

[B]

Oh, that's really sweet.

[A]

Everything around her better.

[B]

Oh my God, it's true.

[A]

And I think Conan dialed into that. And Valerie and I do the podcast on Fridays and it's the same thing. Look, one isn't more valuable than the other. But I was like, Valerie's a genius and she's better and she makes me better. She makes everybody better. Let's get her on the podcast. I think Conan had a similar thing with you.

[B]

I think that. Well, I think it's also. Cause you're different from each other.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So it's nice to have that different perspective.

[A]

I need it. And calls on shit.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Valerie loves calling on shit. And I do. Sorry I cut you off. But I do think people like Conan crave somebody that goes like what? Yeah, I think they love it.

[B]

He surrounds himself with people.

[A]

Yes, he does. To his, to his credit.

[B]

Yeah. Like, you've met Sweeney, you've met Matt o', Brien, like, you know, his head writers, his producers.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Nobody. Nobody's a.

[A]

There's a lot of like, what?

[B]

We're not like bootlicking. We're not like trying to suck up to him.

[A]

But that's a choice.

[B]

That's a choice.

[A]

That's a choice. It's a good choice.

[B]

It's a very good choice because you

[A]

can get in like a real echo chamber.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And like, I noticed when I was doing the Pete Holmes show, look, we have the old midnight. The pilot was called the Midnight Show. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, that's really cool.

[A]

And TBS was so nice and they did all of these things and they made pens with my face. On them and T shirts and stuff. And I was like, whoa, what is this? And somebody was just like, oh, it's fun to watch you, because Conan doesn't even notice anymore. And they weren't shitting on him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which is like, he's been for 20, 30 years at that point. Seeing a huge head.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It was one backstage. Remember that giant? You get numb to it. You get numb to it at a certain point. But why did I bring that up? It's fun. Oh. You can get in the echo chamber and you can start believing your own hype, and then you're not funny and you're not even really human anymore.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it's very smart of him to align with you. I'm trying to. I'm not sure I don't want to talk about Conan. I do think there's an intelligence to going, like, what I am is better when there's someone going, like, what? And not just what, but all the things you do.

[B]

I. Well, I appreciate that. I think that the thing, though, with me and Conan, because people talk about me being more sort of recognizable lately, and they're like, what's it like to be famous? And I'm like, I'm not. Like, I worked for someone who was famous for a long time.

[A]

Well, you're talking about, like, super.

[B]

Well, that's the thing. I know what real fame looks like. And I'm like, if I can call a place like Nobu Malibu day of and get a table for myself and, like, five of my friends, I know I've made it. You know what I mean? It's. That's famous.

[A]

Well, that's a celebrity.

[B]

That's celebrity.

[A]

That's super famous. But you are famous.

[B]

I think I'm at the point where people will see me and they'll be like, you look familiar. Or like, I do get approached more often, but it's also not to the point where I'm being mobbed or people staring at me and I. That's where I like to be.

[A]

That's where I am.

[B]

I. No, I think more than that.

[A]

Disney. I'm Disneyland famous. I can go to Disneyland. I go to Disneyland.

[B]

Approached a lot.

[A]

I hear that. Love you, Pete.

[B]

Yes. Right. Great. Yes.

[A]

Conan. Conan going to Disneyland.

[B]

Conan can't go to Disneyland.

[A]

Conan can't go to Disneyland.

[B]

No, but I think there's different teams.

[A]

Conan can work at Disneyland. It's a bit like he runs the Dumbo ride, and it's like a segment.

[B]

He just did The Toy Story 5, and so he did a Lot of.

[A]

He was in it.

[B]

He was smarty pants. He was the toilet training.

[A]

I watched that whole movie. I didn't know you did.

[B]

Even at the end, they put the Conan hair on him in like a dream. Not dream.

[A]

Can I say, this playing sequence, the theater I saw it in. Played it 700% too loud. Ruined the movie for me.

[B]

Stop.

[A]

Now that I'm old, every movie I go to, I want to go into the lobby and go, hi, we're not a senior community. Can you turn it the down? Maybe the ruin the movie.

[B]

It's. Maybe it's always been the same. Maybe your sensitivity has changed.

[A]

People are like thx and they crank it. Yeah, I. I had my earbuds in. Ruined it.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

Yeah. So he did that. So now he's in the Disney family.

[B]

Now he's in that Disney world. You know, like, he's in that. He's in the can.

[A]

But he couldn't possibly go to Disneyland. Sorry.

[B]

Well, he did to promote it, but he went with, like. I think he went with, like, Tom Hanks. So it's like they weren't writing Space Mountain.

[A]

That shut it down.

[B]

I think they did. I think they shut it down.

[A]

He goes on, it's shut down. Yeah. I think I would too.

[B]

I have a serious question for you. Do you like going to Disneyland with your kid or do you prefer let's talk parenting?

[A]

I love it.

[B]

Well, I. Because I went to Disneyland recently with my kids.

[A]

How old are you?

[B]

I love going to Disneyland. They're five. They just turned five last week. And I'm not. And I know. I don't know how bad this makes me sound.

[A]

Can't wait.

[B]

But there's a part of me that's like, this is better without you guys.

[A]

Of course.

[B]

Is that normal? No.

[A]

In fact, you. Disneyland is the lens with which we realize this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You must go before you have kids. Oh, yeah. Then you must go with kids and you must go. Wait. There is a sacrifice.

[B]

There is.

[A]

That's all it is.

[B]

There is.

[A]

It doesn't. It's not bad.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. We're not mad at our kids.

[B]

No. I love it.

[A]

Val and I used to go. We'd get a little shturm. Same, same.

[B]

Same.

[A]

Little Jim. Jim.

[B]

Little gorp. Gorp.

[A]

Little gorp. Gorp. I one time ate an edible at Disneyland and then spent the rest of my time worrying that I dropped one because it looks like a candy.

[B]

It does.

[A]

And a kid would just pick it up and eat it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm like, there's some high kid.

[B]

What kid is picking up and eating it off?

[A]

Kid. That's just like, this is the happiest place on earth. Yeah, but nothing can go wrong.

[B]

I mean, that's on the parents, though, right? I don't know. Let's just make it.

[A]

I think that's on me. I didn't drop one, but I. I just kind of like. I didn't even spin out. But, yes, you go and you have a better time. You go on all the rides and you strategize and you have no problem waiting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then you have a kid and. And it's. It's. You know, that's just what it is.

[B]

It is, right.

[A]

Just what it is.

[B]

Because it's kind of just stressful with kids. Like, you wait in line.

[A]

Fives.

[B]

Two fives.

[A]

Get out of here. It's also a little early.

[B]

It is a little early. It is. And here's the thing. One of my kids was like, way

[A]

too much money is this place. Yeah.

[B]

Like, he just wasn't into it.

[A]

He didn't buy it.

[B]

He said, this is too much.

[A]

It is too much.

[B]

I don't care for this. I don't like these weird characters walking around like Geppetto walking.

[A]

And he was just like, sorry, there's just a man.

[B]

What is this?

[A]

Geppetto's a weird one. Yeah, that's just a guy. Just a white guy. What's his costume, Old man? Why is he here? He made a little boy out of wood. No shit. He was uncomfortable. That one made life. And when it lied, it got an erection on its face. Welcome to hell. It's so nuts.

[B]

What did you just do to Pino?

[A]

So poor. Pinocchio. Pinocchio.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Pinocchio. Oh, no.

[B]

But, yeah, he was not into it.

[A]

The other one was clearly.

[B]

And he was just not interested. And he kind of like. He. His whole vibe kind of ruined it for the other one in a way. Because he was having all these, like, moments where he would. Meltdown kind of meltdowns, but like mini meltdowns. And I'm like, just have one big one. We'll deal with it. And then, like, that's it.

[A]

Really do it in the line for the haunted man. Because it's a long line and there's a lot of reasons to cry.

[B]

I know. I can't. Death.

[A]

Oh, my God. Disneyland is just confronting death. I don't know if you've noticed this.

[B]

Well, the movies.

[A]

The movies, for sure. The park. This goes back to our point about perfumes. Disney isn't just everything's okay. Disney is. We're in both. We're stuck in extremes, and that's the miracle of it. And I've made this point a million times, but I'm gonna make it to you to see what you think. Think every ride. Like, did you go on Splash Mountain?

[B]

Not with the boys.

[A]

It makes sense. But all of these rides are like. The story of them is, the fox is chasing you. You're the rabbit, the fox is chasing you. It's gonna get us. It's gonna get us. We're gonna die.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then you go over the thing, and then you're in the afterlife. Over and over and over.

[B]

It's a safe afterlife.

[A]

Everyone you know is there.

[B]

Over the hill, and you're in a good place.

[A]

That's fine.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

Different strokes, I guess.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

To me, it really. They're literally singing zippity doo dah character is there. It's like the end of wizard of Oz. You died.

[B]

They got you the end of wizard of Oz.

[A]

What about it?

[B]

They died.

[A]

Oh, no, No. I don't know.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Oh, she didn't die.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

She didn't die. It's a dream.

[B]

Yeah, she got. She got it sucked up to Oz in a tornado.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

And then she came back after clicking her.

[A]

Her heels and saying that was entertainment. And then she clicks her sparkly shoes. That sounds boring. No, there'll be a tight shot of the shoes. Everyone in the crowd will be like, look at those shoes. And now we're watching every miracle and we're looking at our phones.

[B]

Isn't that used to be shoes?

[A]

Used to be shoes. But they are a little young and they are seven. They'll like it so much more.

[B]

I think. I think I might actually wait until they're older and then take them again.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Because I don't. I don't think I'm doing them any favors. It's kind of like, when's the first time you take them to Europe? Or like, we want to take him to Armenia because my husband's from Armenia.

[A]

Well, Armenia you can do anytime.

[B]

Oh. Oh, really?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, explain.

[A]

They're gonna hate it. Eat. Take him any age. There's no good age. I'm just kidding, Armenia. I'm just kidding.

[B]

Why am I laughing so hard? I'm sorry, Armenia.

[A]

I'm Lithuanian. Like, what age do I take Leela? Are you a Lithuanian? Hell, yeah.

[B]

No. Maybe.

[A]

Because I just feel like any age is going to be fine.

[B]

Maybe because you're from Massachusetts. I Just assumed you were Irish.

[A]

I am. I'm that as well.

[B]

Oh, you are. Okay.

[A]

My mom is 100%, though.

[B]

Lithuanian.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Have you been?

[A]

No.

[B]

Is she from there? Yeah, she was born there, but my

[A]

mom, like, fled Lithuania when she was 7, so she never wanted to go back, and she never really. My cousins would say, you should go. It's fun. But I always got a sense that it was because the beer was very cheap and people are very taken with, like, a American Lithuanians. So I was like, I don't know, guys. I think maybe I'll just stay here.

[B]

Like an accent and stuff.

[A]

She has a Boston accent. Seven, I think she lost. My mom's sisters had the accent.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

And my mom spoke Lithuanian, but we didn't. We didn't learn it.

[B]

Did you know any. You didn't know any words?

[A]

I. I know a little. It's funny. It came up on the last episode too.

[B]

That's so cool.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You should go. Go see where she.

[A]

Have you been to Armenia?

[B]

I. I went with Conan.

[A]

Oh, that's right. That's right.

[B]

In 2015.

[A]

Was that your first time?

[B]

That was my first time.

[A]

And did you love it?

[B]

I loved it. It felt like I was at a place with all my aunts and uncles, but we're not. I'm not Armenian from Armenia. Armenians spread everywhere. So my family's from Istanbul, so my parents are from Turkey, and I have dual Turkish citizenship.

[A]

Bro.

[B]

Went once when I was two.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

Never went again.

[A]

I tried to get a EU passport.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

My mom was just like. She was just like, I can't find a picture of you and grandma.

[B]

Why do you need a picture with your grandma?

[A]

I thought it was hard to do for Lithuania. Yeah.

[B]

How do I prove, I mean, no offense to Lithuania?

[A]

You think they're just gonna give me one? People are coming to them, are coming to the consulate and being like, I'm Lithuania. Like, beat it. They spray the hose on you. We're tired of people pretending to be Lithuanian to get a passport. I don't think I'm pretty famously Lithuanian. So let's get a passport.

[B]

The claim to your mom's Lithuanian ness doesn't depend on just one photo of you with your grandparent.

[A]

What do you need?

[B]

Just your mom's birth certificate, probably.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Yeah. So you could say, look, my mom was born here.

[A]

Birth certificate is on papyrus.

[B]

My dad was from a village, like, in. In a region of Turkey.

[A]

I'm sure Conan had a lot of fun.

[B]

Oh, man. Well, so there. There was, like, A birth certificate guy that would come to the. He was a goat.

[A]

Say goats.

[B]

No, I never said.

[A]

Pictured a goat.

[B]

Wow. I immediately saw, like, the birth certificate guy traveled on goat to come to my dad's village.

[A]

I came by goat.

[B]

And you know what? It could have happened.

[A]

It could have.

[B]

I don't know. When he talks about this village, it's very like, we didn't have shoes.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

You know, we were.

[A]

That's why wizard of Oz.

[B]

Yeah. And then. But the birth certificate guy didn't come all the time. He came every once in a while. And the date that he came became your birthday. So my Dad's birthday is February 5th, but he thinks he was born in November.

[A]

So it just took a while for goat guy.

[B]

It just took It. It was. Who wants to travel by goat during like.

[A]

I love that you're. To my error. Thank you. This is your gift.

[B]

I love that I said village, and you immediately heard the word goat.

[A]

I. Is a village. A village. If there isn't at least one goat,

[B]

there's got to be. Go.

[A]

Clank. Clinking around.

[B]

No, you got to have goat.

[A]

Come on. That's amazing.

[B]

And then my. My aunt. This is.

[A]

Even update it. They don't go, well, I'm here on the 5th. But when was the baby born?

[B]

No, they're like, that's the old world. You're born in February 5th.

[A]

And then my mom gets to Ellis Island. They're like, this is your name now.

[B]

Is that crazy? And they were like, okay, I guess. Yeah. My, my.

[A]

I was just on a boat for six weeks.

[B]

Yeah, they don't care.

[A]

Where am I?

[B]

When it came to my, my. I remember there was a story in my family. My aunt was born, and they hurt. She had a brother who had died. So they just took his birth certificate, erased his info off of it, and put hers, but didn't change the gender. So as far as the government was concerned, she was a male. And at 18, they have mandatory military service for boys.

[A]

And they.

[B]

And they called her up, and they were like, you gotta come do military service. And she's like, I'm a woman.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Your documentation says otherwise.

[A]

Give me five seconds with an eraser. This is written in pencil. Like, why are we acting like this is real? Somebody erased my dead brother's name written on toilet paper. Yeah, they Dick Whitman him. Mad Men. They changed the dog tags. They changed. And then did they. That girl have to serve? They Whitmand him.

[B]

Of course not.

[A]

Yeah, of course.

[B]

She was just like, I'm a woman. And they're like, oh, you are our bad. And they just fixed it. And then she immigrated here. And they were like, we don't do that here. That's like. We take our documents more seriously. We'll just change your name at Ellis Island.

[A]

We have pretty good. Yeah, we'll do it. We'll do it our way. The New York way.

[B]

Is she on the Reggie registrar?

[A]

I have the registrar framed in my garage. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

I shouldn't have said my garage. It seems like I don't care about it.

[B]

I want you.

[A]

It's just really big.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I didn't know where to put it.

[B]

I want you to have.

[A]

It's on the wall, Mom.

[B]

I want you to have a Lithuanian pilgrimage. And I want you to have an EU passport. Because that is awesome.

[A]

Having it. Why?

[B]

Because I feel like. With an EU passport.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, like, the American passport. People like, oh, okay. Aren't they?

[A]

I guess. I think I know what you mean.

[B]

And now you. They're like, oh, okay.

[A]

Oh, you're one of us. And then they start talking to me in Lithuanian and I'm like, totally radical. I'm such an American.

[B]

How cool would that be?

[A]

I. You know, my brother and I could go pitch it as a documentary.

[B]

Yeah. No. No.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Why?

[A]

Yes, Conor o' Brien must go, but Pete will go instead for this one episode.

[B]

But people go, pete will go for this one episode. Yeah. Well, it's. Yeah, it's. You coming to turn to your roots. Your mom was a hundred percent Hondo. There's so much there to find.

[A]

I know.

[B]

That's so cool.

[A]

Well, my brother, my uncle. So My mother's brother died as a freedom fighter in Lithuania. So there was all this, like, tragedy. So my mother was really resistant. And it's very dark, you know, how we have our shit. But then, like, the old world, people, they're like, ladies, not shit.

[B]

I have shit.

[A]

And they tell you they die. We're like, and my dad didn't go to my Little League game. And they take a bite out of a ginger root and they start chewing it and they're like, that is your shit.

[B]

My grandparents, my dad's parents were both orphans because of the genocide.

[A]

That's what I mean.

[B]

Genocide.

[A]

That's what I mean.

[B]

And so when I was like, oh, my Kobe Bryant picture.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There's a part of me that's like.

[A]

That's where you got your perspective.

[B]

Yeah, it's that. That was a big part of it. I was like, okay. Like, that sucks. It does suck. Yes, but just two generations.

[A]

I know you. I know.

[B]

It was bleak.

[A]

My mom fled. They. They weren't like, let's go to him. They were like. Like fleeing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Not in the same way that Jewish people were being persecuted, but their lands were, like, occupied.

[B]

Oh, Jesus.

[A]

It's very, very frightening.

[B]

It's terrifying. And she came to a country. She doesn't know any in Boston, where

[A]

they were racist to other whites.

[B]

Boston's racist. Just kidding. What the is happening with, like. What's up with Boston being so racist?

[A]

We love it.

[B]

Oh, okay. Oh, you guys are cool. Everyone's cool.

[A]

It's like a hobby.

[B]

Okay, okay, okay.

[A]

It's like a fun hobby. No, no, no. I don't know.

[B]

For a city that has so many educated people in it.

[A]

Well, the Boston. What's funny about Boston.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is that it's every flavor together.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That's what's such an. Like, it would be like if you had, like, a proton collider and you put in MIT and Harvard and isn't Emerson there? You know, all these great schools. And then it's like. And also all that history of the transcendentalists and all. And Emerson and Thoreau and all this genius stuff. And then you're also like, but don't forget we had the witch trials. And then don't forget, like, Boston, like, because the Irish were oppressed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think it. It contaminated. I'm not saying that's where it started. But then these oppressed people hurt people. Hurt people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So like, Irish people are oppressed, and then they start oppressing other people to big themselves. I'm not here to explain racism. I'm just saying there was a lot of people being hated, and the way they tried to get rid of the hate was to hate other people.

[B]

Yes. And I think you're right.

[A]

Those people started hating other people. You know how we pass hate around.

[B]

Well, it's funny that I even was like, why is Boston so racist? As if I grew up in la.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

As if LA is not racist.

[A]

Well, you see this happening. It's hot potato.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's racism. It's hot potato. And like, sometimes, like, I remember when 911 happened, there was like, almost like. Like Middle Eastern people or East Asian people that became like the new, like, low minority. I'm not saying this with any pleasure. I just remember seeing the economy of hate shift.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

It's like, we choose. We're like, okay, who's gonna be the bottom era? We're gonna pick on these people. It's first, you know, we'll do the Irish, then we'll do the Italians.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or I don't know if it's flair or. Well, yeah. And. And then, oh, the Chinese at some point and, you know, the Mexicans. Let's go after the Mexicans.

[A]

Yes, exactly. Exactly. Right.

[B]

Oh, it was. Is there a meeting?

[A]

Is there a meeting?

[B]

Is there a meeting?

[A]

Is there.

[B]

Am I just missing out on these meetings?

[A]

I just. I wrote a bit this morning where I was like, so much. Look, I'm not trying to be crass, but you are a lady and you can weigh in.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So much of the bottom of ass is showing now.

[B]

The bottom of the bottom of ass

[A]

things are shorter so much now.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Shorts.

[A]

I've been here a long time. I've seen short shorts. You go to the airport, you see the bottom third of a lady's ass.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Sometimes their backpack rides half. Now you're seeing 50% of 50%. You're seeing a full ass cheek at the airport. And you're just like, what I wrote was, was there a meeting? Like, women are always like, withholding something and then giving it. And this year it's like, ass, ass, ass is suddenly like, yeah, we'll give. Give 30% of the ass.

[B]

You're doing free. I love. You're going by percentages. You're, like, unsexifying it.

[A]

It's not even. Yeah. It's not sexual. It's just science.

[B]

Also at the airport.

[A]

Well, this is where I see most

[B]

of my people, but you have to, like, sit. That's what I'm saying, on a seat that a lot of people have sat on.

[A]

There's nothing. That's why I'm like, well, let's be more honest. You can represent ladies just for fun.

[B]

On. Yeah.

[A]

Who is this for? Is it like a thrill? I'm sounding so old.

[B]

No, you're not.

[A]

It must be kind of a thrill to be like, my ass is out.

[B]

I love this. I feel like the younger generations, like, it's not for anybody. It's for me.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

You know, I am. I dress like this because I like my body and I. I enjoy how I feel.

[A]

This is so confusing to the old.

[B]

This is. And this is. Yeah.

[A]

And I'm like, aren't you ashamed?

[B]

No. Do you ask?

[A]

Shouldn't you be ashamed? I come up. No, no, no. I'm talking about my own body. I would be like, I can't believe my asses.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

I'm ashamed. They're like, no, they're like that Chalamet. You know, they're out there. They're not gay, they're not straight. They're fucking. They're out there and their asses out there.

[B]

And did you. Did. Were your parents. Were they critical of your body?

[A]

You know, it's funny that you ask because I just visited them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And every meal I put my. This is the way.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Do whatever you need.

[B]

I just don't like when shoes touch places people sit and lay.

[A]

I never sit over there, but I'm

[B]

so much more comfortable this way. I never sit.

[A]

I'm never over there. Do whatever you want. I've never sat there. Oh, my God.

[B]

Sorry I. I cut you off. So you went and visited your parents.

[A]

I know you have. You had this. I'd love to know about you and your family because the more so hard to not sound judgmental, because I want to say evolved, but the more evolved I feel as a person. Meaning I've dealt with my shit. I have an open, honest relationship with my wife and my daughter. I know myself. Like, I've taken an inventory of what's inside. I know what's a little broken. I know what's. I'm not saying 100% sure, but I've done the work and. And I feel good, and I have. Val is so helpful with me psychologically and knowing what's going on in the world and all that stuff. Anyway, all that is to say we have dinner with my folks. And I was just like, oh, my God, so many comments about what you're eating, how much you're eating. Like, so there was this little girl there, and this is just a generational difference, so I'm not shitting on my folks. There was a meal served to the. This other little girl at the table, not my daughter, and she was eating a little bit, you know, slowly my dad goes, what's wrong with you? You eat like a bird. Like a real something that would freeze into stone when the sun comes up. He's like, what's the matter with you? Then cut to me. I'm anxious eating because I'm not comfortable. I'm eating a lot. My dad goes, hey, Peter, when's the last time you ate? So it's like, what is the right amount? She's eating too slow, I'm eating too quick. Like, I was like, there's a lot of messaging about food, and I never noticed that until, you know.

[B]

You really never noticed that.

[A]

It just seemed normal that people would be like, wow, geez, tell me, did you like it? There's a lot of like, you either ate it too much, too fast or not enough. Like, there's a perfect medium. I don't know. But like, that idea of like, why are you, my dad, taking ownership of what I am eating or they're eating. Why do you even have a take on it? This kind of does play into the ass. I'm like, who are you doing this for?

[B]

Right.

[A]

That is me going like, you eat like a bird or like, you have your ass out. What are you, a floozy? Like, what does it mean to me? And what I think the new generation has is like, I'm eating what I'm eating. My ass is out as much as my ass is out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm not even thinking about you. But even as I say that, I'm like, are you really not thinking about us?

[B]

I mean, yeah, I think. I think to a certain extent. Yeah, I think they are. They are. They are.

[A]

I wrote it in my notes. I was like, it's got to be having your ass out that much. I'm like, the thrill of it, if I'm being honest. Is there like a jealousy that I'm

[B]

like, it's not comfortable.

[A]

Yeah, it can't be that, right?

[B]

I don't think it's comfortable. No, it can't be comfortable. I mean, I haven't worn short shorts in ages. I just can't imagine it being comfortable. But I'm not going to yuck anyone's yum. But I. I agree with you about the dark.

[A]

Yeah, go ahead.

[B]

No, I'm. I'm right. No, I think that why you have a take on how you grew up with those comments. You're like, this is normal stuff people say to each other when they eat. So why is it weird? And with my. My parents, but also my dad has diabetes. You know, he. There's a lot of, like, actual hereditary issues. But every time I eat a slice of bread, like, I love my mom, but she's like, you. Do you really need that? It's a lot of like, do you really need that? And I stress eat. And I think I stress eat as a way of rebelling against her in a way. And it's. It's like a cycle. But then I notice with my kids, kids, and they did this to me, they were like, you have to finish your plate. You have to eat everything.

[A]

Say that to your kids.

[B]

And. No, no, no. They say that to them. And then they'll be like, oh, your parents, they'll shovel food in their mouth. And I'm like, why don't you just let them eat? If they get full, they stop eating.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then when they're hungry, they eat more. I'm like, why do you. Why is it that they have to finish? This arbitrary amount of food you determined

[A]

is enough for that wasn't even portioned by anything other than that was the size of the spoon. Now, that's the amount you have to eat. But I'm a person. That's a spoon. You're telling me the spoon was lying?

[B]

Yes. And they're like, well, I cooked this for you, so you have to eat it to show me appreciation for making it well.

[A]

That's right. There's a lot of kiss in the ring.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Eat it because I put it on your plate.

[B]

I eat it because I made it. And I need you to like what I cook.

[A]

And you're calling me a liar. There's something kind of like you're saying I'm not worthy.

[B]

It's very bad at you. There's no joy in it.

[A]

Seinfeld had a bit about that where he was like, don't eat it, my mom would say, and ruin your appetite. He's like, who cares? There's always another appetite coming. Like, why are we acting like it's a finite resource? Ruin the appetite.

[B]

It's a great.

[A]

It's a great bit.

[B]

It's a great Seinfeld. It is.

[A]

I didn't think it was.

[B]

I think it's pretty good. Better than your Leno.

[A]

You haven't seen him lately. He's lost it. He's become.

[B]

No, yeah. No, he has it.

[A]

Okay. So unlikely celebrity. You get noticed.

[B]

I do get noticed. More than I used to.

[A]

But do you like how it feels? It must be fun.

[B]

I like how it feels. Here's where I know that I'm different from, like, you and Conan.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

There have been a couple instances recently where I've had to, like, go up and do, like, a storytelling thing or something to a crowd of people, if they. Last one was at a comedy show in LA called Uncabaret.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then another one was Beth Lapidus. Yes. Legendary Beth Lapidas. And then another one was recently at the American Library association conference in Chicago. This was last week, Literally last week. Both of those times, I just went up and, like, told the story. You know, it's not really even stand up, but they want it to be a little, like, lighthearted and fun and kind of funny. So I did some stuff. Some things I said made people laugh. Other things I said that I thought would make people laugh. Didn't. And I felt the same for both.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

As in, I didn't need the laugh.

[A]

You didn't, like, obsess on? Like, maybe if I had said there instead of there.

[B]

No, I didn't. And I remember just, like, coming off the stage for both and the one for Uncabrey, I did a little better than the one for the Library Association. And I just remember both of them.

[A]

I was like, quiet audience. I don't know. How do I get these library people going?

[B]

They would start laughing, and people would shush up.

[A]

Standing at me. No, that's where I was going.

[B]

Okay, good.

[A]

You got a standing ovation, which was like, that was awful. And I loved it.

[B]

But I got off the stage and I was like, okay, that's done. I don't want to do that again. Like, I. And then, like, I was. I. I might at some point.

[A]

You feel like a peacekeeper in your house. I think a lot of. I'll speak for myself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A lot of us equated our ability to, like, control a group with our safety. So when I. When I don't get a laugh or I'm misunderstood. Not getting a laugh isn't as bad as being misunderstood. I actually have a part of me that feels like I'm under threat. It seems like you don't have that.

[B]

I don't have. But how do you know if you're misunderstood? When you're on stage, you can feel it. You think? Yeah.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

So it's.

[A]

I asked the same thing to musicians. Like, people just listen to music. How do you know when you're having a good show or not? And you're like. They can feel that people are leaning in.

[B]

Oh, that's locked into it.

[A]

Because they're not laughing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You might hear it in the applause, but you can feel it during the song. And you do, too. That's not a superpower. I think you can tell, like, sometimes they make, like, a little sound or there's a pause or there's a laugh, or there was no laugh. Where there usually is a laugh, or then you have to replay it, and you're like, what did I do? And sometimes it's just like, oh, I didn't smile. Oh, yeah, it's fine. It sounds like it's a plague. It's not. But that's that sort of micromanaging that comes from people do what they have to do. I don't think Conan or myself are, like, disciplined. I think we're traumatized.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

I think you go Like, I'm safe when people know me, see me, celebrate me, appreciate me and understand me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And when I see you and also Valerie not having that, that will rid you of that compulsion to go, like, how do I make that story as bulletproof as possible?

[B]

Okay. Right, okay. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, because you just enjoy it.

[B]

I also also noticed Valerie's very generous with laughing, too. And I think part of kind of having that sort of not having some of those qualities.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is being able to just fully give in and, like, laugh at totally and enjoy life.

[A]

Do you have a lot of friends?

[B]

I have so many friends, and I have friends from when I was a kid. And you want to know why? Because. I'll tell you why. Because I was single throughout most of my 20s and early 30s, so my most important relationships were my friendships. Like, that was. That was what gave me the joy in life.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I think.

[A]

Go ahead.

[B]

So I just. I really value my friendships, but I

[A]

think laughing people, which are my favorite people. Valerie's my favorite person. Person. She's a laughing person. And again, it's not performative. It's authentic. She likes things. Again, she has discernment. So do you, but she will give it up. You can get in there. You can get her.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I make Valerie laugh, brag every day. I fucking get her.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When I get her, I start tickling her. It's one of the fucking funnest things in the world to get Valerie. It's my joy. And she has tons of friends. People love Valerie. I'm assuming you're the same. You have lots of friends. I tried to do a joke about this. I realized nobody related to me, or if they did, they were quiet like Frankenstein's in the crowd. They didn't want to out themselves, all the weirdos like myself. But I was like, when I see Valerie reunite with a friend she hasn't seen in three days.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It looks like they won the lottery. It looks like they cured lupus.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

They're jumping up and down and hugging. There's tear wiping. And they're just so engaged. And like, again, it's fun to include Conan just because he's a point of reference for both of you. Oh, yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

His show is called Conan Needs a Friend.

[B]

It is.

[A]

And people like me look at people like you and people like Valerie and just go like, we simultaneously like how we are and envy the openness, the spaciousness and the freedom to appreciate and savor and delight in what, from what we can see, everything.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we're over here Watching Coen Brothers movies in the dark. Just like, you see how they swapped lenses. Like, we're fucking freaks. We're fucking freaks. Secret introverts.

[B]

But here's the thing, too, that I look at for Conan, and I'm guessing for you, too, is I, like, I'll go to the American Library association conference and I'll give it like 70 to 80% of my. Like, I'll put in that much work into it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Conan, everything he does, whether it's the Oscars, whether it's a Harvard commencement address, whether it's a show, it's like a hundred and ten percent every single time.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's. He never half asses anything.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I half ass so much stuff where I'm like, it's good enough, but

[A]

I wonder what it feels like. But I don't wonder, but I wonder if I'm right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What it feels like for Conan to do badly. You didn't. I'm not saying you did badly, but you said some lines didn't do well.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I had a show recently where I wasn't connecting in the way that I wanted to. And the feeling I get afterwards is it's like you turn the hourglass upside down and it went from everything is all right to like, is everything all right, we're gonna die? Like, it just goes. I know. And it kind of sucks to live on that knife's edge. Yeah.

[B]

But it makes you. First of all, the fact that you. Even if after you have that feeling, you're like, well, I'm gonna get back out there.

[A]

You have to.

[B]

That's huge. But you. A lot of people don't.

[A]

Yeah, I guess. But you.

[B]

And that's so cool.

[A]

The show after the bad show is always the best show.

[B]

Yeah. But it's so cool that even after you have that, like, intense amount of

[A]

dread, or is it the drug. You ever smoke weed and it just didn't get you?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then you're like, next day, try again. That's what you're celebrating right now is the addict. That's like, maybe I can shake some the china, like, get them again.

[B]

You take a lot of pride in doing good work. And that is so, like, for someone like me, that's a very admirable trait.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, for somebody to just take so much pride in what they put out there. Because I'm not saying I don't, but, like, it. If it goes well, cool. If it doesn't, that's cool, too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, but that's. That's not something you have. That's not something Conan has. And that is to have that much pride in the work that you put out is really, really a cool thing.

[A]

I also, again, I'm curious. I do think it comes from a discomfort, like an intolerance of who. And I'm not proud of this, but who am I if it went like that?

[B]

Oh, Jesus. Wow, Pete, you have like a whole existential crisis.

[A]

Well, it is. You go from like. But it is, it's that inner child. This is the work I've done. I'm like, when everybody was laughing and okay, things were okay. And if things got ugly and angry, like, I wasn't okay. That's not true. Yeah, that's a lot of the work I do now is going like, that's not true. But that program is still in there and we don't even fix it because to your point, it keeps things running.

[B]

Yeah. But also, I can't imagine what it feels like when you guys get like a really good run and a good show and you make people laugh like, like whenever we're on the podcast. And let's say I'm laughing really hard at something. Conan saying. I feel him turn and look to me and keep going.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

To get more of those laughs.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like I, I feel him just being like, I don't care who is in this room.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is Sona's laughing. It's. Something's paying out. So I'm going to keep like.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Going at her with all these, like, things that I'm saying.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And it's the same with our guests. Like, if the guests see me start laughing at something they're saying, you see them like, look at me and, and start digging in.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I love that they get that feeling from just laughter. I think that that's why I love, I love that I'm. Because I would never call myself a comedian or like, I'm definitely not a stand up, obviously, but I love that I've worked in comedy for so long.

[A]

Yes. But that, that taste, you're not just. I'm not putting down Kevin Eubanks, but you know, the guy that would laugh at Jay Leno. I'm not putting him down.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But part of his job was to, was to kind of like, keep, keep the vibe.

[B]

And didn't he have like a. Huh.

[A]

It didn't feel like the most authentic. I think Kevin Eubanks would agree with this.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

He would be like, it was my job to just kind of be like, you know, and like, kind of keep it going, but you're laughing, you have taste, you've been around. It means more.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

And it's pay it. It's like in Mario when a lot of gold coins are shooting up somewhere and you're just gathering them. It feels really good. And it's nice that you feel nice. And Conan certainly feels so nice. What is this a dumb question? I am curious, like, who's been on the pod? That was really exciting for you.

[B]

That was really exciting for me.

[A]

Well, as in, like you mentioned Tom Hanks. Wasn't Tom Hanks on?

[B]

Tom Hanks is cool. I, I, I, it takes a lot for me to be very starstruck.

[A]

When did that start happening? I mean, I imagine at the beginning, really.

[B]

And I don't know why. I, I don't think that I was ever like, oh my God, someone's like, here, I will say my white whale. The person that I'm begging every, everybody, like, anybody who asks. I'm like, if Cher ever comes on our podcast.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

I don't know what I'll do.

[A]

Really.

[B]

I don't know if. Cuz I, I, I think I'll lose agency over my body.

[A]

And my reaction just liquefied.

[B]

But I' like, we had Harrison Ford on, you know, and I'm like, oh, that's cool. He's cool.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, but he's also like. But then Gorley, who's on our podcast, also is a huge Star wars fan and he's a huge Indiana Jones fan. So for him to sit next to Harrison Ford was like this incredible moment. I can't say that I love it when people who I already know come on. Like, I love it when you come on. I love it when Flula comes on. I love it when like, like Steven Young would come on the show and stuff like that. Like friends of our. Friends of the show, a day off.

[A]

I got that term from Conan.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

The people that just come, they know how to do it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They show up, they hit the bag for a while and then they leave.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like when you get like John Mulaney on or, you know, it's like, we know it's just gonna be a really chill day and everyone's gonna have fun and like, we all like, know each other at this point. Those, those are my favorite days.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I can't say that I've had somebody who's come on where I've like frozen.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, I'll just be like, hi, Arnold Schwarzenegger. I'M sona.

[A]

You know, he was on. Was he smoking a cigar?

[B]

No, he wasn't. No. But he ate. My husband came cuz he's a big Arnold fan and he gave him a muffin.

[A]

A muffin. It's a protein muffin. You got to eat it. Eat it in the car.

[B]

Yeah. He was just like. He came in and he's like, do you want a muffin? Someone had brought in muffins.

[A]

I brought muffins. I'm not going to eat. It's high shot.

[B]

Like muffins.

[A]

Wait, wait. Schwarzenegger said muffins. I thought he said I brought muffins. No, somebody was like, I brought muffins.

[B]

No, there were muffins in the office. And tack. My husband was just kind of standing there awkwardly and he's like, you want a muffin? And then Arnold Schwartz said, he goes like, muffins, muffins, muffins.

[A]

That's a great way to. That's a very political way of saying, like, I don't eat simple carbohydrates, you idiot.

[B]

It. Have you seen my body?

[A]

He's like, yeah, I love. I love sugar and white flour. You know so much about me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You have blueberries that are soaked in high fructose corn. That was great. You idiot. You idiot.

[B]

Stop.

[A]

You want some frosted flakes? Yeah, come on.

[B]

You want a bowl of frosted Flakes?

[A]

Yeah, they're great. Like, that's how he gets out of it. It's actually brilliant.

[B]

It is.

[A]

Because people offer me things that I don't eat because I'm a west coast elite and I'll just be. I should just start.

[B]

What don't you eat?

[A]

All sorts of stuff.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I wouldn't eat a donut if somebody's like, you want a donut?

[B]

Really?

[A]

I should just go, donuts?

[B]

You wouldn't even just, like, indulge a little donut. Yeah.

[A]

Little dough, you know, sounds. This is a snooze. I'm gonna tell you. No, no.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Not for me. I'm lit up. I'm alive. I can't wait to tell you this. Yes. I'm just letting people know that I know it's not the hottest top topic. It's not goth clothing in a mall. Bob Black sheep, the Library association, standing ovation. It's not the hottest topic. I just realized recently that I think sugar is like alcohol for me. Like, it's just better to just go.

[B]

No, really.

[A]

Like I. I want to delude myself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And think that I can be a sometimes person.

[B]

Huh?

[A]

If you put me in a room with a box of Oreos, I'll fuck it. And here's the best part. I won't enjoy it. I'll eat the first row. I'll enjoy every single one of those Nasty Boys.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The second row, halfway through, I'm gonna not even enjoy it. Now I'm eating it for the sensation of after it's cleared my palate and there isn't one in my mouth. And then I put one in my mouth. That swapping of experience, now I'm just

[B]

chasing where you're rebelling against yourself.

[A]

The brain is saying, stop.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you're saying, where we're going, we don't need roast. Like, you're just eating all of the Oreos. And you know what that is? That's addiction. I'm not. I'm not saying for everybody.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

I'm saying if you're doing something at the behest of your own intellect.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you're not enjoying it. And your body will suffer for it. Now that I'm older, like, eating a box of Oreos will have ramifications deep into my sleep.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

I know.

[B]

You're right. You're right.

[A]

It'll fuck me up. I'll still do it. I go, you know what? Maybe I'll just go ahead and not do this. Maybe I'll not do this.

[B]

It's good that you have willpower.

[A]

I have black and white thinking, which is also an addict thing. And I can go, just don't eat sugar. Like you do eat sugar. Like, sugar's in pasta sauce. It's in fucking everything. But, like, I'm talking about, like, a pavlova.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

At the end of the meal, which, by the way, we went to dinner last night and Val got a Pavlova, and I was just like, if you're not eating dessert and you're watching everyone eating dessert, I said it looked like someone cremated a clown. It's like you cooked down a clown, and out comes this ball of mering and fruits. And I'm like, it looks ridiculous.

[B]

It does.

[A]

It's ridiculous.

[B]

Yeah. Pavlovas are crazy.

[A]

They're so good.

[B]

And it. I was really surprised when, of all the desserts, you pulled out of your head, a Pavlov.

[A]

And I've had that Pavlova. And I'm even getting, like, that saliva response, just kind of thinking about it.

[B]

Right. I'm swallowing, right?

[A]

Yes. It's got that, like, tart. There's, like, a little. We're back to the point. It's sweet, but there's a little interest to it. There's something a little nasty delicious to it. Yeah. I didn't eat it. And that's just. That's just the abc.

[B]

I don't think this is a West coast elite thing. I think. I think it's an addict being a healthy person.

[A]

I heard Stavros on his podcast talk. I think. I don't know if he's on GLP1, but he was like, when people resist, I'm not. But when people resist, he's like, why do you think you're gonna change? He's like, you've never been able to not eat a whole pizza.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Why do you think your next decade will be different? He was trying to advocate, like, just get help. Yeah, just get help. And for me, the get help is like, again, this is. I hope this wasn't too boring. I was like, I'm just gonna not eat sugar. I just can't do it.

[B]

That's so great.

[A]

Is it it?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I don't. What's the upside? I guess.

[B]

What's the upside to not eating lots of sugar?

[A]

No, what's the upside to eating sugar? People would go like, it's life, it's joy. I'm like, is it. I don't know.

[B]

For me, you have a kid, you think about your mortality a lot more. I think about my mortality.

[A]

I gotta. I got. Really? You a death lady?

[B]

Yeah. Not since I had kids. Yes.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Which is kind of one of the perks, to be honest. Something to live for.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

[A]

It's like a big thing.

[B]

It is.

[A]

Is you go. In fact, if I didn't have a kid, like, I stopped drinking. Yeah. I went. I did a private event. It was a birthday party. And I. I don't mean to put any of these people down, but I saw a dad with his son and the dad was drunk and he had purple lips and he was. I know, let's all take a moment to barf. But, like, I just saw, you know how a kid is like a thousand watt bulb? They're just so bright. And then you bring in, like, you're already a grown up, which means you. You're off the island of Never Never Land. You're fucking tool now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you're drunk. And he's like, you know, you should do. He's like, telling him how to do something, and I'm like, that's it. Like, that was one of my that's it moment. Like, I'm gonna not drink. I Wasn't drinking at that point. No, I was drinking drinking at that point. But that was one of the reasons I quit. Having a kid is a great reason not to drink because you think they don't know, and I'm not judging. I'm assuming you drink.

[B]

I don't drink anymore. Hey, you know, I, I.

[A]

There is something about a drunk mom that's a little scary drunk.

[B]

It is. Well, it is. And also, I. Because I stopped drinking when I was. When we were going through fertility treatments, and then I stopped drinking when I had the boys, and I stopped drinking when I was breastfeeding. So I didn't drink for a really long time. And then when I started drinking, I was like, this doesn't feel good anymore.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

When I was young, I. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the, like, loss of inhibitions. I enjoyed the texts I would send exes and, like, booty calls in the middle of the night.

[A]

The whole life, I enjoyed that aspect of your life. I'm not saying it's evil. No.

[B]

I like dancing on a couch. I loved dancing on a couch. A table, any elevated platform.

[A]

Yeah. Get me up there.

[B]

I love to dance on it. And I have had fun when I could, and now it's more just like there's. There's a point in my life where I was just like, I don't need to do it anymore, but I do still. Like, you know, when they go to sleep, I'll take a. An edible and just relax. That's my way of calming down and, and relaxing and chilling out for a bit.

[A]

If I come back from a weekend doing, like, five shows, I'll smoke the day I get back. Yeah, it really helps.

[B]

It's great.

[A]

I don't mean it just helps me. It helps. Helps the family. Like, everybody wins when daddy's a little bit stoned.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Because I can be a little bit uptight. And you go from this very regimented. Get to the show, get to the plane, get to the show. Now you're just home. And it's hard to kind of sit still for that day. Yeah. And then you smoke just a little bit or eat an edible, and it really just kind of like, who cares? We're just sitting, Sitting around you out.

[B]

I did that recently. I traveled for the longest since I had the boys. I went to Morocco with Conan.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

To shoot one of his Conan o' Brien Must Go shows.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it was. It's nuts how I quickly just like, snapped into this, like, different mode of myself, a different version of myself. Where it was like pre kids where I would just go travel and have fun and I would. Whatever. And then I came home and you're like, oh, wait, I have to go back to my adult version of myself. It's so hard.

[A]

And did you have a little edible on that day? Because it sure did. Yeah, sure did. I know. Maybe some truly sober people meeting people who don't even smoke are probably, like, rolling their eyes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But like, for me, weed self destructs. Like, I won't. I won't get to a place where it's a problem.

[B]

Oh, I won't either.

[A]

Alcohol. Absolutely. Like, I was just. It was just too much.

[B]

Yeah. I'm. I'm. I'm not a wake and bake person. And even now, like, maybe I'll. If I'm out, I'll have, like a glass of wine. But the days where I used to just drink. Drink to the point where I was, like, drunk.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, you know, whatever. It almost felt like when I was younger, it served more of a purpose. And now it would just be.

[A]

So that's what I was gonna say is like, I think what happens, or I hope what happens is we get better at being an unfiltered version of ourselves. Meaning we surround ourselves with people that don't mind our takes and our true, true feelings.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And when I was young, and I actually think I'm saying this in favor of alcohol. When I was young and didn't quite know how I felt and didn't quite know what I wanted to say or who I wanted to be, alcohol was a safe mask to wear. Be like, I'm just drunk. I don't fucking like dogs. Or whatever it is. You could just kind of.

[B]

That's your hot take.

[A]

Well, I'm trying to think of something safe I could say here. But you don't try other things.

[B]

Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And see who you were and see how it was received and then, you know, sober up and be like, what if that is right? Oh, I do like dogs, but maybe I don't like big dogs or whatever it is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It sounds like I'm using code to be racist.

[B]

No, but you're also.

[A]

You're a. I don't mean it like that. I was trying to figure out who I am in the world.

[B]

Yeah. And you're drinking is a big part of standup culture.

[A]

I know it was. And it kept you around. You'd stay for the show. Now I go and like, tonight I'm doing a show.

[B]

Show.

[A]

I'll pop in. I'LL hang out a little bit and then I'll leave. And when you're in your 20s, you do stay, and there's more camaraderie.

[B]

Yes. But you also. You did that. And now you have your, like, network of comedian friends.

[A]

When I'm with that you grew up with and my friends, that's a real something, something. Something to be grateful for is like, I don't have to be two drinks in to just say exactly how I feel.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And that's. That's the true achievement.

[B]

That's a.

[A]

If alcohol kind of lubes the way up there, that's great. It was a practice round. Yeah.

[B]

So now you're like an unfiltered version of yourself.

[A]

Yeah. Just drunk all the time. Last night I was railing. I was in a bar last night. It wasn't like a. Like a bar bar. It was like a hotel, but there was a bar. And I was, like, railing on how I don't, like when art people who aren't artists get an idea, and then they'll start just, like, planning it there. Like. Like, the idea would be, like, if I was like, I'm gonna do a play about beach balls. But you can tell they just thought of it and they're like, katie, you can do the music, Sona. You can be in it, and I'll get really lit up.

[B]

Does it happen that often that I've seen it happen? Don't like it.

[A]

Well, it just happened. Oh, I just saw it happen and I had this overreaction where I was like, that's not what art is like. I was like, art is. Is shrouded in shame and insecurity. In the good way. In the good way you're supposed to. If you have an idea, fucking keep it to yourself. Cook it in the lab, ferment it, get it going, plan it out. Where would I do it? Who would I do it? Write it. Write the play. Don't just jump to the fun part. It's not just a party where you go, like, let's do a movie, Sona. You can be in it. Why? Cause you were sitting next to me when I thought of it. This is mania. So I'm going on this rant. Artists are like weird chemists. They go in their basement and they tinker and then they present it. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, Donald Glover writes a song in the studio, then he presents it. He doesn't just start doing it at lunch.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know what I mean? That's art. So this person was kind of. I Felt like they were kind of co opting. I was like, it's not what it is. It's not like, it's not like a fun thing that you just go like, and I'll juggle and you'll make noodles and we'll call it noodle juggle fest. So I'm ranting. I'm ranting like this. And I thought anybody that walked into this bar would think I was lit. Cause I was louder than everybody and screaming about how art should be shrouded in shame. I was like, yeah, I don't need booze anymore. It.

[B]

You just. You also just have a naturally fun personality.

[A]

Well, that's very.

[B]

You remember, like in Friends, there was the. They had a friend named Fun Bobby. And then they realized Fun Bobby was just drunk all the time because he became sober and he was like, really boring. That's. That's not you. You're not Fun Bobby.

[A]

Sober Bobby.

[B]

Yeah, you're so. But Sober Bobby is still Fun Bobby.

[A]

I like this very much.

[B]

Yeah, I, I think you just don't need it.

[A]

You know what was really sweet a compliment to give you. You gave me that nice compliment. I was like, I wanted to say this to you when we were. You were there in my life in that very vulnerable early place where I done stand up on Conan twice. Oh, yeah. And remember JP Buck was looking for Conan and for Jeff for somebody to like, do the show after Conan. And like, you were there. Like you were that. I'm not trying to make the this. Maybe you don't have any remembrances at that time, but I do. And I remember being so nervous, like the first time I went and met Conan in his office. But it was you that I saw first. And then when we're like pitching it to tbs, it was you that I saw. Like, you were that, like bedrock for me. I think that had a lot to do with it. I really appreciate it.

[B]

Beat.

[A]

It was so sweet. I think if you had been some like uptight, like 30 Rock, that guy, Jack Donaghy's assistant, and like, just like kind of scared and weird, like you would be there and you were just this like, breath of fresh air, like a Febreze commercial. I was like, who cares? We're all just Sona's here. Yeah, I'd yell. So I. It just put us, put me so at ease for these really high stakes moments in my life.

[B]

Oh, my God. Well, I will, I, I will say going back on that, when we first heard there was another show coming after Conan and you were the Host. Everyone was like, obviously, it's.

[A]

Oh, that's so sweet.

[B]

It really was like kind of a no brainer.

[A]

Oh, that's very nice.

[B]

And I, I think everybody who worked on that show, because I had a lot of friends who then went and worked on the show, everyone was happy. It was a happy environment, happy show. Yeah.

[A]

And Conan would come by and like, I would go over to your side of the fence.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the props department would make us a prop. And I was like, we had all the resources. Because what's funny about a show like Conan is they have a prop department, but they don't always need props. But there is a department.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, like, maybe there just isn't a prop in that show. So we'd go over and there'd be like brilliant craftspeople.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They'd be like, can you make us a car? And they would be thrilled.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Some days they'd be busy, but other days they'd be like, absolutely. And they would do it. It was just so fun and so generous.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I always like to point this out, is that Conan, who was so kind of traumatized by his early late night experience, really was trying to like fix that with us. Do you remember that?

[B]

I. I do. He was sort of like, he was really championing. Championing you.

[A]

He wanted them to guarantee that it would be on for two years or something. He was like, I want it in. In the contract.

[B]

Oh, yeah, I think, I think I remember something like that.

[A]

Yeah. And looking back, I was like, oh, he's fixing what happened to him because he was weak to we week.

[B]

Well, he was week to week. And you need. You don't like having that looming over you that you can be canceled at any time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because also late night shows need time.

[A]

I know.

[B]

To find a rhythm.

[A]

Everything needs time.

[B]

They need time. Yeah. Any. Anything comedy related especially.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Needs time.

[A]

By the way, this is why podcasts are this. Everybody's like, weird pod. All of a sudden it's all podcasts. Yeah. Because there actually is a fermentation. There's actually an incubation process. Process that real show business, meaning studio show business, won't give. Can't afford to give. They can't even do it. If we can have some compassion for them. They're trying to keep up with all the splash.

[B]

Dash of compassion for them.

[A]

I'm trying. Are you sure about that?

[B]

I think lately I don't have my smash. I think that now they're more about numbers than they are about content.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

And I Miss the days where.

[A]

Oh, my God. Do you want to hear the joke title of my comedy special?

[B]

Special?

[A]

I was gonna call it the Gimmick is I'm Good.

[B]

Oh, that's great. That's great.

[A]

See, I think the. The reason I won't call it is the Gimmick is I'm Good. And I do want to get back to what you were saying.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is that it sounds like I'm giving the middle finger to my peers. I'm not. I'm saying, like, I don't like that we're locked into. We have to be loud and.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And weird. I'm like, can't you just be good at it? But the answer is, actually, they would rather a lot of times put on the loudest thing. Then I. I'm not even complaining. I'm very happy with my career. I'm just saying that seems to be the state of things, which is what it seems.

[B]

It is. Well, I think that before there were people who were running studios and running things that actually liked making. I mean, this is going to sound so pretentious, but making art.

[A]

Yeah, like making things and they. And their name was on it.

[B]

Yeah. Creating.

[A]

I think you could make a plea, like, if you knew who was booking a thing, you could be like, let's get back to, like. Remember when you wanted to. Like, I booked that. I'm the producer. I'm the one who brought this out. Now it's like there's a lot of. There's. There was always chasing trends, but now, because we have so much data, they can. They can. They have the shroud of that data to be like, we only follow the numbers.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And when you only follow the numbers. I don't know.

[B]

That's why now my favorite thing is when something breaks out of the noise.

[A]

Yeah. Like Chris Fleming.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You watch Chris Fleming.

[B]

I love Chris Fleming.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

But not even just comedy. I mean, shows like. Like Widow's Bay. Like, everyone's talking about Widow's Bay now. And Widow's Bay, I bet when they were making it, they were like, some people will watch this and like it. And now it's like everybody's talking about it. That's right. It was the same with, like, heated rivalry, you know, which they made on a tiny Canadian budget. And then it became this massive, phenomenal throbbing budget. You got to say that again, because I talked over it.

[A]

I heard they had a huge, throbbing budget.

[B]

You said it again.

[A]

It was a tight budget, but it was huge and throbbing.

[B]

Tight budget. I like budget, cuz I don't know what a throbbing budget is, but we

[A]

know what a tight budget is. Let's do it again.

[B]

Okay. Yeah. And then you know how like heated rivalry became this huge phenomenon and they had a.

[A]

You have to say.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah. And they had this tiny budget.

[A]

I heard they had a really tight budget.

[B]

That's better.

[A]

Very tight. Like, I don't know if it's gonna fit.

[B]

What though? Pete, don't double down on it. What is. What's gonna fit?

[A]

It's a little. Little asshole. I can't.

[B]

The budget's gonna fit a tight little.

[A]

I don't know how to do this.

[B]

The tight budget was good.

[A]

Tight. I heard they have a very tight budget.

[B]

That's good. Yes. The look after is good too.

[A]

Now we're talking.

[B]

Now we're talking.

[A]

This says I don't know if now we're doing comedy. Now it's cooking. Now it's cooking.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yes. When things sneak through.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Especially when there's so much out there. You're like, word of mouth is still the best thing you can do. Like, my husband and I watched Obsession yesterday.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which they made for like pennies and made a ton of money. And you watch and you're like, oh, yeah, this is just like a good movie. It's just fun to watch.

[A]

When you watch something and you go, don't you? I feel like this came with age with me. When I watch something that's good and I just get this feeling of like, oh, thank God. I thought it was a over. Like, I thought we were out of good ideas. And when you watch something that's truly like, we watched. Did you watch Common side Effects?

[B]

I watched a few episodes and then we lost the streaming service. I forgot what happened, wasn't it?

[A]

No, no, it's on. It was on Adult Swim, but now it's on hbo.

[B]

Okay, yeah, then we do have it. But. Yeah, but we. We didn't finish it. But I loved whatever I watched.

[A]

Did you watch Widow's Bay? Did you watch it? I did because you brought it up. Is it super scary? Cuz I was gonna watch it.

[B]

I was terrified.

[A]

Okay, okay.

[B]

But I'm also kind of a. I'm a. I am watched Blair Witch Project when it came out.

[A]

Don't even say that.

[B]

And first of all, I watched it kind of early on and I was like, oh, my God, this is real. They found this footage.

[A]

I thought it too.

[B]

Fell for it.

[A]

I went to the website and got scared. The website was very scary, though.

[B]

It was the best marketing the best marketing.

[A]

These people are missing.

[B]

That last shot of the movie lived in my brain.

[A]

It's in my brain forever.

[B]

And same with Final Destination. Cuz you're like death comes forever us at any point.

[A]

So, so frightening.

[B]

It comes for you at any. You could be making a cup of coffee.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And it could be like. It's like death will just come for you.

[A]

At least let me have the coffee.

[B]

I. I watched it at. I remember at the mall and my. I went to my friend's house to drop him off and his mom had to follow me home in her car. Luckily I did. I lived like three minutes away because I was like, I think death is coming for me and I just need you to like make sure I get home.

[A]

I walked out of the others. No. I can't handle it.

[B]

Really?

[A]

I didn't even get to the twist.

[B]

No.

[A]

I thought they were just scared people in a house.

[B]

Pete, Doc and I were just talking about the others.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Because he was like, I think the others got hurt by the sixth sense coming out like around the same time.

[A]

Oh, because the spoilers are similar.

[B]

Did you? Do you know what the spoilers.

[A]

I do.

[B]

Don't you wish that you stayed and honestly.

[A]

Because it would have made it less. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Too scared.

[A]

Too scared.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

So what am I doing to myself?

[B]

Takes all the tropes, the horror tropes. And it just puts it into the show. And you're like, I'm terrified.

[A]

I. I don't want to.

[B]

So scared.

[A]

Thank you for letting me know. Cuz I. I won't watch it.

[B]

You should. Cuz it's also hilarious.

[A]

I. I'm sure it is.

[B]

It's hysterical.

[A]

I'm sure Hereditary's got a few hoots in it too.

[B]

Don't watch Hereditary. Don't watch heredity.

[A]

There's a whole slew of movies after you have kids. You can.

[B]

You can't watch don't watch Hamnet like I did. Yeah.

[A]

I wanted to. Val watched.

[B]

You did?

[A]

I started. It seemed great. I haven't gotten to that part. Like, oh, it's just a happy couple.

[B]

Just stop. Just make it. It's like. You know when you. Some kids don't watch the end of a movie because it's too sad and their parents stop.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Old Yeller is just about a happy dog.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't watch the rest of Ham.

[A]

I'm not. Val told me it was like the most convincing thing.

[B]

It's so. And I went by myself to the Movies during the day. And I was standing. I was sitting, like, a few seats away from a couple.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was sobbing so hard throughout most of the movie that I was worried they would think that something was wrong with me. Like my body was convulsive.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Because I was sobbing so hard, and a part of me was like, I need to just walk out of this theater. Right.

[A]

You should have. You should have others.

[B]

It.

[A]

I didn't like the Strangers either. I. I wanted to leave that.

[B]

I didn't watch the Strangers.

[A]

I don't like horror.

[B]

That's okay.

[A]

It's all right. But I heard somebody. My opener. My friend Matt, who opens for me, he watches all the horror movies, and I have him tell me about them. I don't like the same way with the news.

[B]

So you didn't watch Weapons. No, no.

[A]

Did you?

[B]

Yeah. I hate horror, too, but TAC was like, you got to watch Weapons. And you know what? Some of these movies. You know what I hate are jump scares.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And some of these movies, they're just so good and really funny and kind of, like, interesting.

[A]

I was the most tempted to watch Weapons.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Zach Kreger, an old friend of mine, and. Wow, what a. What a pivot in his career.

[B]

Is he.

[A]

Yeah, he was in the Whitest Kids.

[B]

That's right. You knew him.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He did the X Men sketch. He's cyclops. And those sketches we did for Stop.

[B]

Oh, I love that. Those sketches.

[A]

He's cyclops. And then he went and be. He's like another. He's white. Jordan Peele.

[B]

Well, so is the guy who did Obsession is.

[A]

He's a comedy guy.

[B]

YouTuber. And I think he was a comedy guy.

[A]

I think. Well, to. Jordan Peele said, like, the difference between comedy and horror is the soundtrack.

[B]

Ah.

[A]

Which I think there's something to that.

[B]

Yeah. I think we were talking about this on our podcast not too long ago, about how horror comedy.

[A]

Don't mention other podcasts. Horror and comedy.

[B]

On another. I was just having a conversation with some friends about horror and comedy.

[A]

Yeah, sure.

[B]

And how it. It does go hand in hand. Really well.

[A]

You guys are doing fine. You don't have to use this as a platform to steal my fans.

[B]

To steal your. If there's a Venn diagram, it's like a circle.

[A]

No, I know. No, we're like a little moon, and you're the Death Star.

[B]

I don't even know how many people listen to our podcast.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I am in such a blissfully unaware place because I think if I knew and I started caring about that stuff. I think I'd get in my head. Yeah.

[A]

But it just becomes like one mass of people.

[B]

But does. Isn't it nice that you record in, like a small room with just a couple people?

[A]

Totally.

[B]

And you have no idea who's on the other side listening to you. And that's really kind of nice.

[A]

Oh, yeah. I thought you were going to say that was paranoia.

[B]

No, it's nice.

[A]

No, it is nice. It's nice. The more things change, the more they say the same. We used to just sit around and talk, and now we record ourselves sitting around and talking. People listen to it.

[B]

It.

[A]

I actually. You could think that's dystopian. I think that's beautiful that people are just like, want to hear. It's like listening to a crackling fire.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like it's in our bones to be like, I'm safe. There's people around. Like, put people. Put on. You're doing the dishes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Feels nice.

[B]

I like it.

[A]

You could be like, you're alone. No.

[B]

What podcasts do you listen to? Is that.

[A]

No. I love that question.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You're very generous. I have a love hate relationship with Malcolm Gladwell's.

[B]

Huh.

[A]

Meaning sometimes he's a real enthusiast for things and sometimes it drives me crazy. Okay, I'll give you an example. He was talking about Taco Bell and he was like, I love Taco Bell.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I love Taco Bell. I love it. I'm like, no, you don't.

[B]

You really don't think he does.

[A]

I think he does, but I don't believe. I don't know how to explain it, really. I can't explain it. I think he might. And I want him to just be like, here's what I want. I love Taco Bell. Of course I don't eat it.

[B]

That's.

[A]

Yeah, that's what I want him to say.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But he doesn't.

[B]

Because I love Taco Bell. But I. I'm never gonna be like, let's go get Taco Bell. Because now I'm just sort of like, well, it's not healthy for you.

[A]

Right. Well, that's what. That's what he. I think. And Malcolm's done the. My friend Malcolm has done the podcast. I'm a big fan of his. He just gets lit up for everything. And if I'm in a pinched, contracted mood again, it's not him, it's me. I'm contracted. And he's just like, getting excited about Tide detergent. I'm like, Shut up. Like, it's envy. It's really envy. I'm just like, it must be so nice. Just go around. But then he did one about. He's not nimby, not in my backyard. He's yimby. I don't know if he made that up, which is. Yes, in my backyard. Okay, but he lives in Manhattan. I'm like, of course you're yimby. Tell me about your house on Long Island.

[B]

Not in my backyard.

[A]

Not in my backyard. Is like, let's say this is our house, and the. The city wants to build free pickleball courts right next to us.

[B]

Oh. Who, like, go to the town hall meeting, and they're like, absolutely not.

[A]

Or they want to build. Like, I look, I'm making these up. But they want to build a big thing is, where do you put affordable housing? And that's where people get nimby, and people hate NIMBY people. And I get it. But he's going like, I'm yimby. And I'm like, yeah, bro, you live in Manhattan. Everything's on top of it. But not in my backyard. People live in the Hamptons. And I want. Malcolm, I love you. Come back on the show. Tell me about your vacation house. Are you yimby there? Well, Sona, are you Yimby in Montauk? How Yimby are you when you're sitting in your hammock by the lighthouse? Not so Yimby. Not so Yimby. And he's like, I'm Yimby. I'm like, yeah. Nobody cares where anything is in Manhattan because it's all up.

[B]

Well, the city's nimby for you.

[A]

You also don't even have to have a tape.

[B]

The city has so many restrictions that it's easy.

[A]

This is what it is. Like when an inconvenient trip. I went and saw it in Manhattan, and at the end, it has, over the credits, things you can do for the environment. And one of them is use mass transportation. And everyone in the theater applauded because we all use mass transportation. Yeah, because it's the most easy, convenient. Everyone uses a subway. It's gridlock, traffic. You're not doing it to save the planet, you selfish fuck. That's why I'm like, yeah, you're yimby. Tell me about Martha's Vineyard, Malcolm.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, tell me about it.

[A]

You want a Dave and Buster's there? You want a McDonald's? How about a Taco Bell next to your vacation house that's open 24 hours drive through right by your open airport.

[B]

Like the.

[A]

You would love it. You would love it. He would love it. Because he loves Taco Bell.

[B]

Yeah, I think. Well, so. Right. You know, going back to my house burning down. There's a lot of rezoning in Altadena.

[A]

I'm laughing at how random it was that you brought it up.

[B]

Back to my house burning down.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

There's a lot of rezoning in Aladina. And there is a lot of people now. There are a lot of people now who are very nimby about like a 5 unit complex going up or a 10 unit complex going up somewhere where there is like there used to be a house. And I think that my feelings about it are very complicated because a part. But I want to be a Yimby person.

[A]

We all want to be Yimbi in our heart of hearts. We know we're Yimby.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Ram Dass used to talk about this. In your heart, the mind wants to be safe.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Control. And the heart just wants to give away the store. We all know Yimby. Our kids are Yimby.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They don't even understand what you're talking about. And it sucks that I can relate to the person that's like, I. We had a pickleball thing where I live and they were like, they want to put pickleball courts. And I have like sound trauma. Like, for real. Like, sounds bother me. So people were like, I don't want a pickleball court. They there, it's loud. I immediately go, is the pickleball court loud? You've never been by a pickleball court.

[B]

I just.

[A]

Katie, it sounds like the devil's making popcorn. Yeah. But it's that times how many courts there are. So I sound like a old square right now.

[B]

All day.

[A]

Yeah. When the sun's out, bun's out, gun's out, pickleball. They're fucking doing it. And I'm like, I can't read a book. Like, I am such a fucking square. I had friends that were like, they should build the pickleball courts. And I was like, they shouldn't build the pickleball courts. And I was like, you don't know how it feels for someone who, when you hear a sound, has a really hard time telling their nervous system that they're safe.

[B]

Do you have misophonia?

[A]

Is that what it is? Is that. I don't know.

[B]

It's a sound thing, isn't it? Like, it's people who have genuine reactions to certain sounds.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know if I have that. I just have, like, if I hear something, I need to know what it is.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

But I would like to control it, ideally.

[B]

So what happened with the pickleball courts?

[A]

They didn't make them. Where I live is very. Where I live is very nimby.

[B]

I was gonna say, when people want to build something, they just figure out a way to do it.

[A]

But the thing, the other thing was we're bringing up some real local politics for my.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

There were already pickleball courts. There are pickleball courts.

[B]

Oh, they wanted expand.

[A]

They wanted more pickleball courts. And there are people probably that know what I'm talking about and they're prob. Probably mad. I just, I immediately side with the person that's like, I'm sitting on my porch and I can't watch the sunset anymore.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But that's not what the kids are into. The kids are like your sunset. And I'm like, somebody's getting either way.

[B]

Yeah. It's true. Where I'm on the board of my kids school. Like, I don't want to brag, but I am on the school board and we just bought the property next to us and they want to expand it and then they're like, well, you know, the neighbor might be upset. I'm like, of course the neighbor is going to be upset.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He had a house next door to him and now it's going to be his school.

[A]

When you buy a house that's listed as a, like, you have to declare that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You have to be like, just so you know, there's a school next door.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Louder. You should know about that.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But then on the flip side, it's like, okay, but it's loud. Like, only during the day. Right. Like at night there's not gonna be raging parties.

[A]

Yeah, that's true.

[B]

So I don't know. I. I think that I'm. I'm. It's funny because I am on the opposite side of it where we're trying to do this expansion.

[A]

We're simbi sometimes in my backyard.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's what symbiosis is, I think. I don't know.

[B]

I did not expect the conversation to go this way about. Not now. I know. Nimby.

[A]

I know.

[B]

And I'm gonna use it a lot.

[A]

Wait, what do you listen to? What podcast do you listen to?

[B]

I listen to Pop Culture Happy hour a lot. It's an NPR podcast that about talks. Talks about, like movies and shows and albums that are coming out that are Cool. That people should know about fun. I listen to this. I'm a big NPR podcast person.

[A]

I like that too. Yeah, I have to be careful not to listen to Diary of a CEO too much. Do you know that one?

[B]

No, no, I do.

[A]

Oh, it's a very popular. It's like, it's a little bit in the rise and grind genre. It's like men talking about how much iron you should have or whatever.

[B]

Are you being serious?

[A]

It's not like a health and fitness podcast. Oh, it is. Doctors and experts and AI people and tech people and politicians and they all go on and. And you'll listen to it. Like I was just talking to my brother in law about it. Sorry. It is a little bit motivational. It's a. It's Diary of a CEO, but diary in the British way. Like schedule. Okay, so it was made to be like, what are. What is.

[B]

You said diary.

[A]

Yeah, I know. You took it in the American way.

[B]

No, I took it as a diarrhea.

[A]

Diarrhea?

[B]

I thought you said diarrhea of a CEO.

[A]

That's some expensive water poop.

[B]

I was like, I'm sorry. Okay, okay, okay, sorry. Go. Okay, that makes sense.

[A]

Nobody noticed that. I like it, but if I listen to it, my brother in law, Derek and I were just talking about this. It's like there is a golden library and there's a lot of facts. There are a lot of things that you could learn and implement into your life. But if you go there too much, you'll go crazy.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I really believe this.

[B]

I think so too.

[A]

You know what I'm talking about.

[B]

Y.

[A]

If you listen to too many podcasts about the optimum amount of vitamin D, you should get how much this you should get how much this you should do what you should do in the morning. I love Dr. Huberman and all those guys, but if you get too much of it, you start getting kind of paranoid and weird and your life starts slipping away from you. And men in particular, I think are at risk of becoming like automatons. And Val will notice. We had the funniest moment for where I just got. I listened to A Diary of Diarrhea of a CEO. I was talking about processed foods and how they're killing you and all this stuff. And then I become very anti processed foods. And Val just goes, pete, this will end. Please don't say anything you can't take back.

[B]

Oh boy.

[A]

She didn't mean like I was going to be a monster, but she's like, just know in three months you're Going to probably be, but, like, I think it's almost like hacking. It's like, we love gambling. And there's. There's like an information version of gambling.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean? It's sort of pornified information to make it very titillating. Very. You don't understand. I do gobble it up. And I love listening to it. But then I realized, typically, I'm a little more afraid, I'm a little more stringent. I'm way more know it all, and I'm not really any happier. But I listen to it. Like, I listen to. To a conspiracy theory.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I listen to it, like, with the fervor of a ghost story where they're like. And you know what table salt is. Right. And I'm like. And then I. And then I become that guy mansplaining what table salt is, and I'm like, I know. Maybe table salt is this or whatever it is. But, like, I'm just. I think the whole culture is getting wise to the idea that, like, there is the golden library of information. But you can't go there too much or you'll. You'll lose your mind.

[B]

You'll lose your mind.

[A]

You'll be right. But you'll be dead and alone.

[B]

Yes, it is. It's exhausting.

[A]

Yeah, it's exhausting.

[B]

It is exhaust. Like, my. My. My husband Tack, he watched that documentary about juicing, and then he bought that.

[A]

Sick and nearly dead.

[B]

I think so, Yeah.

[A]

I did the same thing.

[B]

And he bought a juicer, and he's like, I'm gonna become a juicing guy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then he, like, didn't become a juicing guy, and he had this massive juicer on his revel thing. Yes. And he was just sort of like, whoops. I was convinced. But my real life application of it is tough. It's hard. Yeah, it's really hard.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, you know, I mean, I like, I remember listening to this statistic about how much more prevalent colorectal cancer is getting in people 30 in their 30s and 40s.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's hard to detect because you can't get. Get colonoscopy until a certain age. So a lot of people get it. It's deadly. It's awful. And it's because the food we're eating is so much more processed. And I was like, I'm not gonna do that anymore.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that lasts a week.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then after a week, I'm just kind of like, I am.

[A]

That's why we all need a vow. She's what's funny? I did watch that fat second nearly dead and I did a 30 day juice fest and it changed my life.

[B]

I.

[A]

So there.

[B]

How many times have you done it?

[A]

How many times have I done a juice fast? Yeah, I still have that juicer. I don't use it very much anymore.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But I did need like a reset.

[B]

But isn't it funny that you, like, loved it and then. But like, did you. Why didn't you do it again?

[A]

Well, it's hard. We're back into that attic stuff.

[B]

Black and white.

[A]

And I was really black or really white to be like, I'm going to do this juice fast. And then it's hard to find the. That middle way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Where you just kind of sometimes do a reset.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Kimmel did juice two days a week for years.

[B]

Like, just juice.

[A]

Yeah. That's how he lost all that weight.

[B]

That's. I should do that.

[A]

5, 7. Welcome to Diary of a CEO. This is what it's like. You're in the gold. You're in the golden library right now.

[B]

I still like that. It's that. I think it's called diarrhea of a CEO.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Cuz I like. What does their poop look like? It's probably really healthy.

[A]

Yeah. I'm picturing it in a black toilet. You know what I mean? They have to have everything a little bit different, a little bit better. It's in a black toilet. So you can really assess the quality. I'm facing that. I. Nick Kroll's parents had a black toilet. I was only there once, but I was like. Because I. It was like a nice fancy. I think it was kind of a fancy house. And that's where I got that belief. I was like, oh, I guess once you make black toilets, I think black toilets. 80s big in the 80s, because you could do coke off. That's what it was. Everything was black.

[B]

She wanted to coke off a toilet because it's black. Because you're in the bathroom.

[A]

You're in the bathroom for privacy. And the mirror on the. You can't do it on the mirror.

[B]

So Nick Kroll's parents did a lot of coke.

[A]

Tons.

[B]

All right.

[A]

And they made up big mouth.

[B]

Oh, that's nice.

[A]

Do you think when you die, it's over?

[B]

I don't.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

I don't think. I don't think it's over. I think it keeps going. Can I tell you why? Because, you know, my history with religion can get very complicated. And when my grandma died, she died in 2015. And she was one of the most important people in my life. And to me, I was like, she didn't just go away because I still felt her a lot. Like, I would feel her randomly. And, like, there were things that happened in my life that I attributed to her now, whether they actually were attributed to her or not. Not. I was like, I just don't believe someone that special could exist and then not exist anymore. So I never thought there was nothing after death. But her dying, you felt it made me feel like I. I feel like there's something wrong.

[A]

I understand that. I. Have you ever had, like, an Akashic record or anything like that?

[B]

What's Akashic?

[A]

Don't worry about it. Let me cut to blood. The podcast is over. The Akashic record is. It's a specific. And I. I'm. People might laugh. I'm not super this way. Like, my life isn't littered with things like this, but there is a person named Chris. Krista. Krista. I think it's Krista. And she does these Akashic readings. And that means they look in the Akashic record. This is a specific kind of psychic reading where they learn a specific way. I don't know. Of reading something that's, like, the history of everybody that's ever lived. I don't know. I'm not here to explain it. You can go. Everyone can Google it. Yeah, but it has a lot to do with people who have passed and who are, like, looking out for you. And yes, when they talk about my Uncle Larry, for example, she would just be describing him perfectly and saying what he would be saying. And I was. You know, I think I go into these things pretty discerning. And it was like, think of all the different things. Like, you said your grandmother died.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What if I was just like. And she was brassy. She didn't censor herself. Like, there's a really good chance I'm wrong. You know what I mean? She just wouldn't shut up. Loved the wine.

[B]

Everything is wrong. Everything you're saying is wrong.

[A]

And she was taking big swings like that with my Uncle Larry, but she was exactly right. And there is a feeling of. What I like to do is like, if you erase time, it's all just kind of happening at once. So your experience of your grandmother, you perceive it as this line, but really it's more like this big blot of everything. So you're kind of interacting with her whenever and however you choose from your limited point of view, if that makes sense.

[B]

It does. And you Know, after she died, my mom is like, well, in the next 40 days, people who've passed tend to visit people, like, in their dreams. And she visited me in my dream.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

And I really look at it as. I didn't have a dream about her. I, I, I feel like she visited me in my dream. And I think that there's. And it was a very specific conversation where she was telling me that everything was going to be fine and that I shouldn't be so sad that she's gone. And, you know, I, I think that with a lot of people who've passed, there's. It feels like they're still looming in some way. And so I do, I do feel like, you know, you dip back into that. Well, like, sometimes, like, you know, whenever, if I find myself at that cemetery, what I, you know, it's just silly to, like, find myself at a cemetery.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

But, like, people die a lot. And so, you know, and I'll, and because all my grandparents are all buried in Los Angeles, there's moments where I see them go visit their graves and stuff, and I'll talk to her. Like, she's there. Like, she can hear me, you know, or if I'm somewhere and I feel lost, lost, I'll, like, talk to her. And so, or in. And also, my grandpa who passed away, like, five years ago, they were just such big presence in my life, and it feels weird to think that they're just not. They don't exist anymore in any sort of way. So, yeah, I think that we exist in some way. I don't know if there's a heaven. I hope there is, because it sounds cool. And so I'd like to go there afterwards, but, but, yeah, something happens.

[A]

I've heard it described as, like, if we're all in a river, and right now, you, son, are like a. A localized little whirlpool.

[B]

Ah.

[A]

And your grandma was a whirlpool. And you're. And that whirlpool dissipates, but it becomes sort of more available. It's not localized anymore. It's contributed to the river. But you're, you're made of the river. Meaning there's only one thing going on here.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you, you're an appearance in that thing, and your grandma is an appearance in that thing. And then the localization of that appearance disintegrates or disperses. What you are is made of what that was dispersed into.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

So that is a very literal way

[B]

of being, like, really cool.

[A]

That's what I say to My daughter. I'm like, I'm always with you. And I'm like, I mean that literally. Like, it's not just, like, wishful thinking. Like, will always be very intimately connected.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And that's true of everybody and everything.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Let's do some ketamine. Make the same joke every time.

[B]

Oh, have you ever tried?

[A]

Oh, my God, it's wonderful.

[B]

I've heard. I have a friend who does it first.

[A]

You'll be one of those people, nerve pain, nothing happened. You'll be like, you'll do rails of ketamine and be like, everything is fine.

[B]

I don't feel anything. I don't get it.

[A]

Things were funny. They had lots of friends. I loved my life. Love being a parent, love my husband, love my grandma, love my grandpa. When does this kick in?

[B]

That's me in a nutshell.

[A]

It's you in a nutshell. What did you just do?

[B]

That's me in a nutshell.

[A]

Pete, you're a true delight. Are you feel satisfied with this podcast?

[B]

I feel. With this podcast, yeah.

[A]

Like, if we wrapped up, I feel

[B]

like I haven't talked to you for, like two more hours.

[A]

I know.

[B]

I really do.

[A]

It's been effortless. It's been really easy for me.

[B]

And we. Do we see each other. Remember we used to see each other at the Conan holiday parties?

[A]

Yeah, I know.

[B]

And it was so fun. They used to be at Yamashiro.

[A]

It's like I think of it every time I go there.

[B]

H. Do you go there a lot?

[A]

No. For some reason it's near Largo, so I sometimes park on that street.

[B]

It's not near a Largo, is it? Yamashiro's in Hollywood. Largo's like, by the Beverly Center. Where are you going?

[A]

Wait, are you sure? Yir the big one one the bit. Is there another year, the mansion? Yeah, there was another sushi place that is, I think, near Largo, where the holiday party was a couple times.

[B]

Yes, yes. There was a Yamashiro was only once. No, Yamashiro was a couple times. And then we did it at stk a couple times. And then another koi.

[A]

Koi is what's near koi?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Those were such great times.

[B]

I know. I loved those holidays.

[A]

The show was fun. God, it really is like a real time capsule for me. Thinking of, like the Conan green room and where the wardrobe people were and Conan would come back before. Sometimes he didn't.

[B]

Sometimes he didn't. I know.

[A]

Sometimes he just did the fruit.

[B]

Yeah, I remember the cheese plate.

[A]

The cheese.

[B]

It's good. It's good. We lived it.

[A]

We lived it. Aren't we so lucky Jimmy Vivino would be across the way. Yeah, we were lucky. And walk. That was real show business. And I was walking past the Conan bobblehead. There was that little, like, office row of off where you guys would do the postmortem.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

There's that little, like, trailer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So weird. And then there was the stage. God, it was such a special time.

[B]

It was.

[A]

I'm glad. I'm glad I got to be there. I'm glad I. I got to meet you, and I'm glad we got to do this.

[B]

Same.

[A]

Same.

[B]

Pete, I love you. You know that. This is awesome.

[A]

We'll come back anytime.

[B]

I'm serious.

[A]

We got to do it with. With Val. Oh, my God.

[B]

I would love.

[A]

You know, I would love Valion.

[B]

Oh, I love that.

[A]

That would be an explosion. You know, maybe we'll do a live one at Largo with you and Val.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Yes, that'd be great. Yes, that'd be great.

[B]

I love Largo too. Flanny's my boy.

[A]

There's a picture of Conan in the bathroom.

[B]

Is there?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I always think of him exactly where it should be.

[A]

Yeah, I know. Right by the pooper. Diarrhea.

[B]

He's the best. I love Conan. I'll work for him.

[A]

I'm glad.

[B]

I always say that.

[A]

I'm glad you do. Well, that was the thing. It's funny. I was like, we could talk about what people don't know about Conan, but people do. I think he presents himself pretty openly. I do.

[B]

And as somebody who works for him, I've been very open about the fact that he is exactly who you hope he would be. And as his employee, it's the best place to work. Like, I. No one leaves if they can help it.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I always point out that he would. You were there. We did some press thing. It might have been the upfront. So we're at the, like, big hotel, and then me, you, and Conan got in an suv, and for some reason, Conan was on one. And you know when Conan's on one and it's just you meaning he just got juiced from, like, talking to a thousand people. And now you're in a car with him. And it was one of the great joys of my life is that he just roasted me for like, like 40 minutes. Do you remember this?

[B]

I do remember that. Cuz I think we both also were looking at each other like, what is happening, happening with this guy.

[A]

Because you're there. It's like a natural phenomenon. Like, something's. He's lit up. He's. He's being. He's always hilarious. That's actually the first thing I would say about Conan is like, he's just always funny.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He's putting it on. Mulaney is the same way. It's just like, they're just talking, and it's funny.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But we were in. There was like a. It's like it rained in the car that day. Like there was a natural storm happening. And I was just like. We didn't know each other that well at that point. And he was going at me in the most delightful way. And you and I were just dying laughing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think probably I had tension to release, too, from that big event. And we're laughing and we're laughing. I'm just like, oh, this is the funniest person in the world.

[B]

It is. Yeah. And you know what the thing with Conan and I, when he. He got honored with the Mark Twain Prize last year.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

And I got to give a speech for the night before dinner that they had with, like, sponsors and stuff. And my thing. One of the things I said was, he will turn it up to 11 if he's performing for a thousand people or even one person.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And when you are on the other side of being that one person, it is. Is the biggest joy.

[A]

Yeah. It's like Muhammad Ali with a speed bag. It's just like, it's easy for him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But he likes it just as much as fighting a real boxer. He's just like, I don't care.

[B]

Yes. And when. With Conan, when he, like, when he was going after you and you were giving him that laughter instead of, like, trying to be like, oh, okay, you know what I mean?

[A]

Imagine if I roasted him back.

[B]

Could have gone either way.

[A]

This from the guy with the. Or whatever.

[B]

He's an audience. Audience member who's so willing to give him what he needs, and he can go after it. It really is the coolest thing to see.

[A]

I can't. I'm so touched that you remember that, because that was a formative moment.

[B]

I do. You know what? Like, I. I just remember, like, the. Because we went to so many upfronts. But then also, what happens after the upfront when he's deflating.

[A]

Yes. When he's, like, coming down, there's a lot to burn off.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's sometimes his funniest stuff. But that car ride in particular.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because there was only, like, Like. Like, just the three of us.

[A]

It was the three of us. Yeah.

[B]

And we were in the car, and he was just, like, going after you hard. And I just remember laughing and laughing and laughing so hard. There's been a few moments throughout my time working for Conan when I remember laughing so hard that I'm crying and I'm, like, out of breath, and I'm like, I'm gonna die.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And it's just the best.

[A]

It really is.

[B]

That's the best gift anyone can give you.

[A]

You know what? I. We should wrap. We will. But that reminds me of. There's been so many times. Conan's always ready, and he does it. There were times when we were doing Pete Holmes show promotions, and then I swear someone would mention that I was supposed to give a talk. I'm telling you, there's only a couple times in my career that this has happened. I think it's just a wine and cheese party, and someone's like, and then they'll bring you up. And I realize I'm supposed to do, like, a funny me talk.

[B]

Oh, God.

[A]

To advertisers. I know. Just saying that makes me want to die somehow. I. I don't know how it went. I think I pulled it out okay. But just like, what? And then there was one time when we went to an HBO premiere for crashing, and then, like, someone was like, and then they'll bring you up. And I'm like, what? And I went up, and I realized I had to thank the executives. And I didn't know their names, like, not all of them. I knew some of them, and I can see them, and I'm like, and Jim, Chip, Skip, and all the rest. Like, I didn't know what I was doing. And I realized, like, I'm the event. Like, they came to hear me talk before the thing. And the third one was one time I interviewed Stephen Colbert, and it was at some thing in Hollywood. And I swear, I was just like, it's Stephen Colbert. It'll be great. It'll be like a. I pictured it like an intimate conversation with like, 30, 50 people there. I'm telling you, there were 2,000 people there.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

And I got there, and his team, who had been emailing me for weeks, all this information about Steven, like, here's some clips from the show. Here's all the background that we pulled. I'm like, why are they sending me all this? I get there. It's like the biggest event I've ever done.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

I know. This is like the stuff of nightmares. And I just, that one did go very well. But I just went, just talk to him, Just trust him. It'll be fine. But I met more than that. But those are three that come to mind when I'm just like, I didn't know I was the show.

[B]

See, I would take that as a compliment.

[A]

There's a way to spin it in a good way.

[B]

They do. They have to prepare so many people. They have to prepare so many people to do certain things like that. But they feel so confident in how you are as an entertainer, as an interviewer. I think that they're like, you know what? He'll figure it out. We don't have to give him any information.

[A]

I hope so. But the Colbert team did try. They were like, here's all the things. I didn't even look at it. I should have looked at it.

[B]

My God. And you're not curious? Like, you don't ask, hey, how many people are going to be there?

[A]

I've been, I'd like to think I've learned that lesson, but I'm still showing up to things and being like, what? Like I've done stand up. And I, I just think it's some little show and I get there and it's 3,000 people and I'm like, but

[B]

are you more confident about, of your abilities and yourself?

[A]

Yeah, but I think I would like to know that it's 3,000. You know what I mean? There's a point where like a lot of my life is trying to decide how much mojo and how much prep and there's a right level for each. And sometimes I'm all mojo and I'm like, could he use a little more prep? That's what I'm hearing. What brought it to mind was that Conan is like such a pro and would never be like, I didn't know they thought I was gonna speak well for that.

[B]

That's like, that would be our fault.

[A]

Right?

[B]

You know what I mean? Like it's, it's like the assistant's job to be like, I had a template. Whenever he was asked to do something, I was like, how many people? What's the room like? Who's gonna go before him? Who's gonna go after?

[A]

That's a well oiled machine.

[B]

Yeah. And like, who, who, who? Can you send us videos of past things? And that's things that like Sweeney would make sure I asked right. You know what I mean? Like the people that worked with him on these things were like, ask these questions. And so, and I'M sure that came

[A]

from a time when people didn't. And Conan had to be like, I need to know what the room is.

[B]

It's exactly it. That's exactly it. There have been, there have been a few times when I worked for him when I was like, oh, he didn't, he didn't know what this was going to be.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's. It shows. So it, you know. Yeah. Then we learned. Then we were like, yeah, we should ask these questions.

[A]

I still haven't learned. I'm still showing up to things and I'm like, I didn't know this was outside.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

Friggin dingus.

[B]

Yeah, but you probably do way more.

[A]

Yeah, it's funny. It's an anxiety reducing mechanism. But then it can also increase anxiety. Yeah, you should look into it.

[B]

I will. You know what? I will say I'm so sorry. I know we've been trying to wrap up, up. I did competitive speech in college and then I learned somebody said, you win the round before you even start speaking.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

And it's so much about confidence and it's so much about going up and feeling confident about yourself.

[A]

That was what happened with the Colbert thing. I was like, just McJagger. It just go off that Riz. Go on full Riz. And then we had dinner afterwards. I was like, this was a big event. Like, I didn't prepare. You can still hear it. It's the episode of this podcast.

[B]

Oh, okay. Oh, that's cool.

[A]

Don't bother.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

No, it's good, it's good, it's good.

[B]

Okay, okay.

[A]

Okay. We will end.

[B]

Yeah, we should.

[A]

Will you say keep it crispy? It's just how we end.

[B]

Keep it. Keep it creaspy. Creasy.

[A]

Is that Armenia?

[B]

Can I mention my book that's coming out?

[A]

I plug everything up top, but you can plug it here too.

[B]

Okay. I have a book coming out in the fall. September 1st. The world's worst Mom. Yeah, that's it. Keep it. Keep it crispy. Keep. Can I do a better one? Yeah, keep it crisp. Can I do a camera? Which camera?

[A]

Keep it camera.

[B]

Keep it crispy. Finger cut.

[A]

I liked it.

[B]

I didn't like it at all.

[A]

Well, it's what's happened forever. That's what it is. Forever. It weird. Yes, you do.

[B]

Made it weird.

[A]

Yeah.