Steve-O

Summary

Podcast Summary: You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes – Steve-O (Dec 13, 2023)

Episode Overview

This deep, vulnerable, and at times hilarious episode features Steve-O (of "Jackass" fame) in conversation with host Pete Holmes. The duo peel back the layers of Steve-O's onstage persona, his lifelong quest for attention, the spiritual themes running beneath his stunts, the insecurities in his stand-up journey, and the universal human struggle with mortality, happiness, and self-worth. What begins as a lighthearted exchange about comedy and stunts grows into an honest confession about addiction, aging, the ego, and the search for contentment.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. On Comedy, Insecurity, and Breaking Into Stand-up

• Navigating Comedy Club Culture:

  • Steve-O describes feeling out of place in stand-up circles, wrestling with not being “accepted” as a real comic.

    "Because I came into Stand up from something else, I've got this, this built in insecurity that people don't want to accept." – Steve-O [08:20]

  • Pete reassures Steve-O that with 13 years of stand-up, he’s more than minted as a real comedian.

• Multimedia Evolution in Stand-up:

  • Steve-O's specials transitioned from pure stand-up to involving edited footage and multimedia components, blending his stunt background with comedy.

• Improving Performance:

  • Johnny Knoxville encouraged Steve-O to be more conversational on stage.

    "If you could make your delivery more conversational, that would help." – Johnny Knoxville (via Steve-O) [11:44]

  • Steve-O hired a speaking coach to overcome his stiffness:

    “I just developed this mantra of going out on stage: ‘Dude, I'm just the guy in the clips… I'm not out here trying to impersonate what I think a standup comedian is.’” – Steve-O [14:17]

2. Mortality, Attention-Seeking, and Motivation

• Fear of Death as Engine:

  • Steve-O ties his early dangerous stunts and need for attention to a feeling of not fitting in, lacking survival instincts, and a young expectation of early death.

    “I expected that it was my fate that I was going to fail miserably at life and die young.” – Steve-O [20:03]

• Stunts as Defiance Against Death:

  • Dangerous antics were, in part, to cheat mortality—capturing attention in the hope of a legacy, even posthumously.

    “My early stunts… it was me scrambling around frantically trying to pack my message into a bottle... to be discovered posthumously as the Van Gogh of the video camera.” – Steve-O [21:36]

• Human Denial of Mortality:

  • The conversation explores how Western society hides death and aging, contrasting with cultures that embrace it.

3. Spiritual Themes & Transcendence of Ego

• Death, Ego, and Acceptance:

  • The two discuss spiritual traditions that directly confront mortality, and Steve-O expresses his fascination with these.

    “I think that people are very, very averse to even contemplating their mortality. And I think that that is a grave mistake.” – Steve-O [23:16]

• The Futility of Clinging to Youth & Achievement:

  • Reflecting on Tom Cruise’s ageless image and Hollywood’s denial of aging, Pete jokes:

    “What are we gonna do when Tom Cruise dies? What are we gonna do as a nation?” – Pete Holmes [25:48]

• Non-Duality and Identity Beyond Work:

  • Steve-O reveals the challenge of separating self-worth from professional persona.

    “As long as my identity, my self worth, my self esteem is tied to the value of Steve-O as a commodity in the entertainment world… that's just a road to misery.” – Steve-O [54:06]

4. Pain, Courage, and Overcoming Fear

• Stuntwork and Fear:

  • Steve-O shares his practical method for doing scary things:

    “A very useful tool for me is 1, 2, 3, go. I've never backed out.” – Steve-O [38:17]

  • He doesn’t have superhuman pain tolerance—he just wants attention more than comfort.

• Pain, Cold Exposure, and Everyday Courage:

  • The discussion expands to cold plunges, connecting the “override” mechanism of stunt work to ordinary growth and facing discomfort.

5. Addiction, Recovery, and Self-Examination

• Addiction Roots:

  • Pete theorizes that addiction (particularly alcohol) was, for him, a reliable way to command attention—a guaranteed experience.

    “Alcohol was the only thing that gave me as much attention as I wanted the world to give me… It was a guaranteed experience.” – Pete Holmes [43:05]

• Seeking Approval Even as Kids:

  • Steve-O recounts a teacher commenting on his need for peer approval, revealing the tragic irony of seeking something and achieving the opposite:

    “Steve so craves the approval and praise of his peers. But everything he does seeking it brings about the opposite results.” – Steve-O [46:05]

6. Mental Health, Anxiety, and the Elusive Nature of Happiness

• The Chase for Happiness:

  • Steve-O admits to rarely feeling content and being habitually anxious, using this drive as his “fire,” but also recognizing its toll:

    “My default setting is… even if everything's okay now, it's not going to be okay.” – Steve-O [69:04]

• Happiness & Motivation:

  • He fears that true contentment would dampen his drive:

    “To be content is dangerously close to lazy.” – Steve-O [72:04]

  • Pete and Steve-O exchange spiritual perspectives (Ram Dass, Buddhism, Rupert Spira) on happiness being innate, and suffering as arising from craving and aversion.

7. Money, Success, and Scarcity Mindset

• Financial Security and the Paradox of Wealth:
  • Steve-O notes:

    “The more money they have, the more that they experience financial insecurity… money creates a vacuum where the more you have, the more you need.” – Steve-O [61:39]

  • He discusses generosity, learning painful lessons about giving, and balancing generosity with practicality.

8. Anger, Hecklers, and Therapy

• Handling Disruption on Stage:
  • Steve-O admits to struggling with anger toward disruptive audience members and seeking therapy (using his own podcast sponsor code for Better Help):

    “It's almost like 12 step inventory. You know, like, I've got unreasonable expectations... lacking compassion.” – Steve-O [91:07]

  • He views heckling as “vandalizing” a sacred experience between him and the audience.

9. Psychedelia, Hallucinations, and Cosmic Absurdity

• Hallucinations and Meaning:

  • Steve-O describes intense drug psychoses, hallucinations, and even a powerful, silent encounter with “God”—interpreting the silence itself as an answer about the inherent strangeness and unknowability of the world.

    "God was just in my space. I was like, okay, so now… like, tell me, why is the world so fucked up? And there was just silence, which, in and of itself was a response..." – Steve-O [102:00]

• Conversations with God:

  • Steve-O credits the book "Conversations with God" for shifting his view, specifically reconciling his mother’s suffering by realizing the divine is not separate from us but expresses itself through us.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Self-Doubt and Comedy:

  “I've got this, this built in insecurity that people don't want to accept.” – Steve-O [08:20]

• On Facing Mortality:

  “Our human experience is a cruel prank on us because we have only one instinct, which is to survive. And one guarantee we won't.” – Steve-O [17:49]

• On the Stuntman’s Superpower:

  “If I have some kind of a superpower, it's quite simply that my desire for attention outweighs my desire for comfort.” – Steve-O [39:40]

• On Spirituality and Ego:

  “As long as my identity, my self worth, my self esteem is tied to the value of Steve O. as a commodity in the entertainment world… that's just a road to misery.” – Steve-O [54:06]

• On the Paradox of Happiness:

  “To be content is dangerously close to lazy.” – Steve-O [72:04]

• On Stand-up Disruption:

  “I take the stance that it's disrespectful to the entire audience... it's vandalism.” – Steve-O [88:23]

• On Faith and Suffering:

  “That God wasn't over there and let it happen over there. But that actually my mom wasn't alone. My mom was God. My mom was an expression of God.” – Steve-O [106:41]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:00–05:38: Banter, intros, brief hair/personal care chat, Comedy Store atmospheres
• 05:38–13:44: Stand-up, insecurity entering comedy, multimedia comedy evolution, conversations with Knoxville
• 13:44–18:55: Stage presence, self-acceptance, existential motivations
• 18:55–23:16: Mortality, stunts as message in a bottle, legacy
• 23:16–30:07: Spirituality of death, aging, reflections on Eastern vs. Western values, famous figures as symbols
• 30:07–36:52: Fan encounters, expectations, aging out of stunts, evolving career, physical limitations
• 36:52–43:44: Fear, pain, pain tolerance philosophy, “1-2-3 go”, cold exposure
• 43:44–54:32: Addiction, approval-seeking origins, self-esteem work, separating identity from career
• 54:32–61:14: Financial security, generosity, the paradox of wealth, team loyalty, balancing ego and heart
• 61:14–68:07: Happiness as motivation vs. contentment, ego’s fleeting satisfaction
• 68:07–75:31: Philosophy/Practice of happiness, Buddhism, striving, accepting what is
• 75:31–84:08: The compulsion to hustle, balancing work with being, moving towards stillness
• 84:08–94:02: Hallucinations, spiritual encounters, Conversations with God, suffering as oneness
• 94:02–96:08: Therapy and anger, handling hecklers, passion for audience experience
• 96:08–113:43: Ghost stories, hallucination tales, anecdotes, childhood hustle for attention, happy memory, closing banter

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Closing Highlights

• Steve-O’s Funniest Memory:

  • Laughing hardest at Dave England’s “poo smear” prank war with the Jackass director and the level of energy he and his friends could devote to pranks.

• Defining Motivation:

  • Childhood persistence: Steve-O calls every hotel in town to meet Mötley Crüe, rewarded for his “stockiness” and hustle.

• On Passion and Drive:

  • “If I am passionate about it, there's no stopping me.” – Steve-O [113:30]

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Final Memorable Quote

“As long as my self-worth is tied to the value of Steve-O as a commodity… that’s just a road to misery… so it was so important for me to… find a life outside of all that… so it can be okay for me to get old and be a walking party foul.” – Steve-O [54:06]

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Summary Tone & Takeaway

Deeply honest, humorous, and philosophical, Steve-O and Pete Holmes invite listeners to question the hustle for achievement, the avoidance of death, and the search for happiness. At its core, the episode is a meditation on self-acceptance, spiritual perspective, and the bittersweet nature of the human drive for attention, love, and purpose.

Transcript

[Steve-O]

You made it with. You made it with. You made it with. Oh yeah, you made it with.

[Pete Holmes]

You made it weird with Pete Holmes. What's happening weirdos? This is my incredible conversation with the incredible Steve O.

[Pete Holmes (Ad Reads)]

Who has a new special out now called the Bucket List. You can find out how to watch it on steveo.com you can also come see me. I'm doing some stand up coming up Tempe, Arizona for New Year's and then I will be at the Brea Improv in California. And we did find new dates for Chicago. Apologies again for rescheduling that guys. That was a hard one for me. But all of those tickets are available on petehomes.com also my special is on Netflix right now. Please watch that if you haven't already. It's called I am not for everyone and that is streaming on Netflix right right now.

[Pete Holmes]

What else? I guess we could talk about the Pete's Picks. Pete's picks.

[Pete Holmes (Ad Reads)]

As you guys know, I only do ads for things that I actually use and actually love. And obviously Modern mammals is a huge one for me. I never used to wash my hair. I hated washing my hair cuz shampoo sucks. Shampoo sucks. So there's a real problem with shampoo. You wash your hair, I guess it's clean, but it looks like a bale of hay that that you just took out of the dryer. It's crisp, it's fried, it's fluffy, it looks like crap. So you end up putting more crap in your hair just to make it look natural again. It was a disaster. So for years I just wasn't washing my hair. And then I found modern mammals. Modern mammals in a nutshell is shampoo basically that cleans your hair. So it's clean, comb goes right through it. It's amazing. But it doesn't dry it out. It looks like it looked before you washed it in the sense that it's still natural, still maintain some of that oil, some of that. I don't know how to describe it. It basically looks like you have a little product in it after you washed it and you're ready to go. I mean I've been on red carpets and I washed my hair with modern mammals that morning. I never used to do that. But of course you have to clean your hair. So this is a huge problem and this is the solution. Modern mammals, game changer. It's got 40,000 guides have switched to it instead of traditional shampoo. The reviews are mind blowing with once you use it, you will be hooked for life. I am Hooked for life. You can't go back. Get a guy in your life. Modern Mammals maybe this holiday season. It's a wonderful gift. They might not even know they need it, but you know they need it. It's a small grassroots punk rock company. I love these guys and they are saving our hair making this new shampoo alternative specifically for men. They have bars for no plastic and no fragrance or bottles. It's like a magic gray mud and I love the feeling of it, I love the smell of it and I love that it gets you hair perfect every single time in six seconds. Go to modernmammals.com weird where people can get a special combo deal and try both the bottle and the bar for both. For $44 you get both and support the show. Modernmals.com weird we are also brought to us by our friends at Open. You guys know I struggle with sleep. I struggle with anxiety. I have a brain that's very active. It's very hard to turn it off. It's hard to calm down and settle my mind. I got a lot going on. Well, thankfully I found a new solution that's been working wonders for me. The Open app, which takes you through thoughtful and intentionally designed classes. For clarity, you can hear Lela in the background. Anxiety, focus, energy and sleep. The difference between before and after. For me, like before, the calming breathwork class is night and day. I'm a huge fan of breathwork, but it's not always easy to do. You need help, I need guidance and I want to make sure I'm doing it right. And the Open app takes care of all that. I actually like to do it before I go on stage to feel a little more centered and clear and get rid of that anxiety and those jitters. So I'm calm and present while I'm performing and I do it before bed. The PM body scan has me out like a light. If that's all it did, it would be incredible. Took me years to find a better way and now I'm passing it on to you and you only need five minutes a day. The Open method is simple and it works. It combines breath, work, meditation and fitness. They have a badass community of people doing it all together, all committed to personal growth and to help support you. My only regret is not starting it sooner. The app changed my life. It will change yours. If you want to get on my daily routine, you can get 30 days free of open by visiting withopen.com weird again, that is 30 days free by visiting withopen.com weird support your body support your mind. Support your life. Support the show. All right, everybody. Enjoy.

[Pete Holmes]

Steve.

[Pete Holmes (Ad Reads)]

Oh, get into it.

[Pete Holmes]

Could you use your real voice? Not this. Not this Persona. Can the real Steve show? What if you just were like, afternoon.

[Steve-O]

I am. I was trying to work with the vocal coach at one point, buddy.

[Pete Holmes]

Brutal, right? No, we have the same thing. I went to a Cedar. Not Cedars. Is it a Cedars person?

[Steve-O]

No, it's. Somebody was referred to me by.

[Pete Holmes]

Who cares?

[Steve-O]

Exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

No, not that I don't care, but I don't want you to strain, to try to remember.

[Steve-O]

No, no. Yeah. I don't mind.

[Pete Holmes]

I just know it's sort of embarrassing this. You massage and you have to, like, stretch your tongue and before shows.

[Steve-O]

Right, right, right, right.

[Pete Holmes]

It really worked. Did you see the Metallica documentary?

[Steve-O]

There's some kind of monster.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

What if you're, like, a long time ago.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, what made me feel better about it was James Hetfield is in the stairwell, the most metal person of all time. And he's going, me, me, me, me, me, me, me. And I'm like, there's no. There's no cool way to do it. You just have to go. It's okay. So we're recording.

[Steve-O]

Well, there we go. Thank you. Right on. It's great to be here.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm really happy to. We've walked past one another many times.

[Steve-O]

I. Not long ago, had a set at the Comedy Store.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

Walked in, you were on stage, and it was just thunderous. No, thunderous like the. The. I mean, there's just something about the Comedy Store, man.

[Pete Holmes]

It's special, isn't it?

[Steve-O]

It's unbelievable. And the energy in there, I just thought, man, I'm swimming with sharks tonight.

[Pete Holmes]

That's part of it, though. You know what I mean to me, following great people, I still. I still feel it, too. You know, Obviously, I'm like, for sure. I just followed Santino there. I saw you there.

[Steve-O]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I think on Monday.

[Steve-O]

No, for the holiday.

[Pete Holmes]

No, it doesn't matter.

[Steve-O]

No, not in the last week or so, but. But, yeah, absolutely. I remember. Who else was there? Just. Eliza was there. She did great.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

She murders.

[Steve-O]

I just remember thinking, God, I've just gotta step it up tonight.

[Pete Holmes]

Isn't that funny, that, like. Because one of the things I sincerely admire about you, I'm a spiritual person. And I'm always talking about, like, there's nothing to be ashamed of. There's nothing. We're innocent. Like, it's okay. All this, like, self acceptance.

[Steve-O]

I. I'm excited to talk about spiritual.

[Pete Holmes]

Really?

[Steve-O]

Concepts with you.

[Pete Holmes]

That's great. Well, one of the things, and this might sound false, but I sincerely mean it is like I just took a pee, right? And I was like, isn't it funny that Steve can pee in front of people? And I really, I don't like it. I'd rather not pee at a ball game. You know what I mean? And what is going on there is like a latent shame, like a, like a denial of my human. And you don't have that. I know that sounds funny, but like.

[Steve-O]

You know what I do, I just have it in different ways.

[Pete Holmes]

Tell me.

[Steve-O]

With, with my stand up. Even though I've been doing it, like, just, I've been doing it belligerently and persistently and, and, and aggressively. I've just not stopped for 13 years. Just, just, you know, like I've maintained a schedule of touring. That, that's, that's unhealthy.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

You know, I, I do so many shit. A little on brand and yet somehow, because I came into Stand up from something else, I've got this, this built in insecurity that people don't want to accept.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, no, that's real. That's real.

[Steve-O]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And so it doesn't matter if you come in like Ricky Gervais creates the funniest TV show of all time, does stand up. I have to imagine he was also like, do you accept me? Because you came like late, which is so silly, but I get it. I get. Because it can be like a clubhouse and it's like, oh, these are the real, these are the real pirates, right?

[Pete Holmes (Ad Reads)]

And you're a guy wearing a hat.

[Pete Holmes]

That you got at Pirates of the Caribbean being like.

[Steve-O]

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And over the course of the 13 years of me doing stand up, which.

[Pete Holmes]

By the way, you're minted past 10. You're mint, like by anyone's standard, you know what I mean? Because stand ups are worried that you're not, that you're a tourist.

[Steve-O]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, 13 years, that's longer than.

[Steve-O]

Yeah, I mean the reality, if, if my, you know, my, if my logical thinking applies, it's, it's very democratic. If people don't want you to be doing it, then there isn't an audience and it's gonna not continue. Right. But for me, I was able to keep making it around to the comedy club circuit year after year and, and, and business got better and better and.

[Pete Holmes]

It'S like getting your passport. St. Right, look, I was there, right?

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

And over the course of the time, my, my comedy became multimedia.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

Where in the beginning it was just me and a microphone, then it was me and a microphone, and I would edit footage in after the fact so that my second special could be multimedia, like.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But not for the audience.

[Steve-O]

Correct.

[Pete Holmes]

For the viewing audience.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. So I didn't have it to lean on when I was touring. The show on tour was. Was just stand up in its own Right. But then I added footage and after the fact.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

And that worked so well. Then I really wanted to bring footage with me on tour for my third hour.

[Pete Holmes]

Let them enjoy it.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. And, God, it worked so well. That. That's the. The special I've just put out.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah. I was just watching it this morning. Oh, man, it's a crazy way to start your day. For me, it's like 9am I just dropped my daughter off and I'm like, oh, but that's it. There's like a. We call it. I call it the Borat factor. Like, watching it in a theater, I. I cry for people that watch Jackass movies or Borat without a crowd. It's so fun that that is the show. In fact, the show is obviously the show. But, like, if there's a second show watching, for sure, all sorts of people react in different ways.

[Steve-O]

And so early on, not. Not that early on, but certainly, you know, a year or more before I taped this special, I sent a reference, cut, a recording of. Of the show with all the multimedia baked in to my buddy Johnny Knoxville.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

And he said, hey, man, this is great. But, you know, he said, if you. If you could make your delivery more conversational.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, wow.

[Steve-O]

That would. That would help.

[Pete Holmes]

That's a hard thing. That's a hard note to. It's hard not to get.

[Steve-O]

It's. It was.

[Pete Holmes]

But it's good to have a friend that could be like.

[Steve-O]

Couldn't agree more.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm trying to help.

[Steve-O]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But most people will just go, it's great.

[Steve-O]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Avoid.

[Steve-O]

Oh, no. Knox has always been very thoughtful, very candid.

[Pete Holmes (Ad Reads)]

That's.

[Pete Holmes]

That's like me and Birbiglia. Birbiglia. Mike Birbiglia will be like, I don't like this joke. And you're like, what? Oh, God. Like, I'm so.

[Pete Holmes (Ad Reads)]

What's the Hollywood cliche?

[Pete Holmes]

Your managers are all like, it's the best, Steve.

[Steve-O]

It's the best. Yes. People. Because they're.

[Pete Holmes]

I mean, that's self preservational. They want you to release it. They want it to make money and all. They don't really care or as much as a friend, a real friend, for sure.

[Steve-O]

And. And he. He. He's always been that way. Knoxville. And so I continued touring with the show, and I was. I. I was trying so hard to. To just be more natural and loose and conversational, and I just couldn't feel it working. And ultimately, what I did was I hired a speaking coach. Not a vocal coach, but a speaking coach, obviously, to. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Still have the rasp. Right. That was the joke.

[Steve-O]

You.

[Pete Holmes]

You wanted someone to help you speak more naturally, not. Not sound.

[Steve-O]

Right.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

So the speaking coach got the. The recording of the. Of the show and watched it and. And the speaking. Why do you have no problem in the vignettes? The multimedia component.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

You have to. Very loose, very natural, you know.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

Yet on stage, you have this kind of, you know, fear is at play. Stiffness.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah, yeah.

[Steve-O]

And. And. And what we arrived at is that. And when I'm. When I'm in the. Doing my thing on. In the vignettes, like, I'm, you know, like, it's so natural for me.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, you're also in control. Your fiance is shooting you. You decide, like, let's roll now. Right. I have to imagine you're like, I feel like it. Let's do it. We can edit it.

[Steve-O]

It's.

[Pete Holmes]

It's different on. They see everything on stage.

[Steve-O]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Is that. Am I right?

[Steve-O]

I think what it is, is that. Is. Is that. That just insecurity that when I'm on stage, it's like, oh, you know, like. Like I feel that there's some self consciousness, like, oh, now I'm performing stand up, and people don't want to accept me as that. And I think that we have. We've. We really chipped away at it. Really broke. And I just developed this mantra of going out on stage, like, dude, I'm just the guy in the clips. You know, I'm not out here trying to.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

Trying to impersonate what I think a standup comedian is right now. I'm going out there. Like, if it's a TED Talk and I'm speaking as the world's form. Most expert in. In poo poo jokes and stuff.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I get it.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Poo poo jokes.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. Scatological humor. I'm the best in the world. Like, I'm. I'm. I'm.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, you're also a pioneer of this other thing, but that can carry over into this. You don't have to reinvent the wheel.

[Steve-O]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

But that's what's interesting to me. Watching, obviously, listening to your podcast and seeing you evolve. I feel like, you know, you've thought about this, but you kind of just alluded to it. When I see you doing stand up, I see somebody who had to get over the idea that you're not valuable if you're not backflipping into a vat of acid.

[Pete Holmes (Ad Reads)]

Right, right.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, why would you watch me? And isn't that. Was that young Steve O's hang up? It's like, I'll do anything. And you started at 10 and now you're telling us an anecdote about an Uber that you took once. It's like you probably have to like green light that your feelings and your private thoughts are as valuable as an extreme stunt.

[Steve-O]

Yeah, I mean, I'm like, it gave me anxiety, you describing, like, I'm thinking, I can't talk about Uber.

[Pete Holmes]

Not okay, but funny that, like, you will see me. Is that the voice of young Steve O? You will see me. Or is it more, I will shock you? Is it about them or is it about you?

[Steve-O]

I. I think that I've just left the bar. You know, where the bar lives is. Is a. A terrifying height. And to come in underneath the bar, it's. That's something that has less to do with an audience or an audience's expectations than I think, a standard that I hold myself to.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

So, I mean, I don't know where'd.

[Pete Holmes]

That standard come from? Starting at the beginning and working after the stand up. And not to be too therapy, but I'm genuinely interested.

[Steve-O]

Sure.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, I got. I'll start with this. I got into stand up because I really felt like my parents were lost in their own worlds. You know what I mean? Like the dinner table, I was like. And I. So when I was away from my family and found a way for people to, like, see me and laughter is this great proof that you've been heard. Not only were you heard, you were understood.

[Steve-O]

Wow. I like that.

[Pete Holmes]

And they got your perspective. So when I like, complain about my parents and I'm like. And then he says. And they laugh, I'm like, thank you. Right. That was crazy or whatever. So that was the need. If you were starting, you started by submitting your tapes to the guy who would go on to direct, Jeff.

[Steve-O]

Right, right, right.

[Pete Holmes]

Do you remember? I mean, there's so many ways to come at it. Were you like, the world is absurd. Why are we all acting like it's normal? We're all in danger. Why are we acting like we're safe? Like, what was the voice?

[Steve-O]

I have a theory on this. And it's that mortality is such a problem.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

For all of us. The way that I view it, our human experience is a cruel prank on us because we have only one instinct, which is to survive.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

And one guarantee we won't.

[Pete Holmes]

That's the cosmic joke. So we're ice sculptures. Yeah, we're melting ice sculptures. And some of the ice sculptures are like, I have a billion dollars. And it's like, who cares, dip shit? Or some of them are like, in the 70s, I had a hit record.

[Steve-O]

Who cares, dipshit?

[Pete Holmes]

Like, I'm reading the Denial of Death right now. And it's all about the un. Like, everything we do is driven by this, like, unspoken, so repressed, unconscious war is some dictator being. Like, the more bodies that fall, the more I am and the more I'm served. And look how real I am. And then history laughs. It's like Napoleon, what are you talking. You're gone.

[Steve-O]

You're gone.

[Pete Holmes]

Just like the postman for sure is gone. Like, so it's this equalizer. So you're saying there was a sort of like, let's look at this.

[Steve-O]

Well. Well, yeah. And when I was, you know, failing out of the University of Miami in 1993, I was very acutely aware of my inability to. To make it to class, to. To get passing grades. There was no chance that I was going to graduate from university.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

I could not do it. And every single attempt that I had ever made to hold a job was equally catastrophic.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. So you're not like, fitting in.

[Steve-O]

I could.

[Pete Holmes]

It's a lonely feeling.

[Steve-O]

I could not keep a job. Like, no matter. Like, I could not bring myself to do anything that I was not passionate about doing.

[Pete Holmes]

And it wasn't a choice. You weren't being punk rock. You literally weren't built.

[Steve-O]

Literally was. I couldn't. And so in my view, I, like, woefully lacked the basic survival skills needed to navigate the world we live in.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Steve-O]

And I expected that it was my fate that I was going to fail miserably at life and die young. And having failed pathetically.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Steve-O]

And. And so there was like an extra, like, just frustration, despair. Like, I just. I'm just not cut out. And I think that it's not a mystery why my first stunts were just so. By design, to mock, lash out at. Like, there's very angsty.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

Like, I was hanging off like a 12 story balcony by my bare hands.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

And. And, you know, I let go, dropping onto the 11th floor below, like. Ah. And I did it, like, very drunk. You know, like, it was like I could die. You know, it was like. And it was like me lashing out at death.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

And. And there was something about the fact of videotaping it, which. Which absolutely cheats death. Like, I was like, I'm gonna be dead.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

I'll have, like, it, like, having failed, dead, gone. But these videos that I'm making, even.

[Pete Holmes]

If I die, they will live me. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

And so my early stunts, in some ways, I really feel that it was me scrambling around frantically trying to pack my message into a bottle.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

So that I could be discovered posthumously.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

As the Van Gogh.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

Of the video camera.

[Pete Holmes]

It reminds me there. There's a lot of. I don't know. I don't want to. Can you say primal? Like, tribes in South America, which. I know you lived in South America, but, like, I'm thinking about, like, the Yanomami and all these different Indians and whatever. I don't know why we call them Indian. Anyway. I'm really having a hard time talking about this without being offensive. I'm just saying it goes really far back that, like, a shaman would gouge his back with hooks and hang there in the truck, in the village. So there's the baskets. Here's the food for tonight. Oh, there's the shaman. He's bleeding out. They would call it death tripping. They would. They would literally take themselves as close as they could to death to then have a psychedelic experience, like a vision and come back or standing on poles, like, with one foot. There's all this sort of stuff. So it's not. It's actually. It is new. You are a pioneer, but it also seems to be part of the human.

[Steve-O]

I don't think.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't think you took it to a different place.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. I don't think there's a lot of new stuff, but isn't that weird?

[Pete Holmes]

But I mean, you were in the MTV days, being like, what is this? And it's like. Well, there's actually a historical precedent for this is. You're right. The one thing. The one special thing we all have is our relationship to our own mortality. And you wanted to turn that into a identity.

[Steve-O]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And you did.

[Steve-O]

I think that. That people are very, very averse to even contemplating their mortality. And I think that that is a grave mistake.

[Pete Holmes]

You see a corpse, they put makeup on it, they cut your belly off. Like, if you had a huge belly, you're flat. You look great. It's fucking perverse. And I say this all the time, but, like, Ram Dass Used to talk about how in India when someone died, they would carry them on a board through the street. Just a dead body, not adorned, not fixed up, just here's death.

[Steve-O]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And that would help everyone kind of understand and remember it. And here we hide birth. The birth process is like. It's a little bit like factory farming, which I know is something else you feel about. It's like, it's over here. Let's not look at that. And our deaths are. It's over here. And we won't let you see it until it's pretty and then it's. It's just the tiniest little bite.

[Steve-O]

I don't think that we would want to see it if it's pretty. Like, I, I agree. I think that, that even being old is, is not, it's not acceptable. It's like to be, to be elderly.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

Is an offense.

[Pete Holmes]

Because we don't have elders, we just have old, useless people. I'm not saying that's true.

[Steve-O]

Right, right.

[Pete Holmes]

We're just like, well, they can't produce, they can't consume. What are they?

[Steve-O]

It's not, it's not even that. It's that elderly people serve as a reminder of our mortality and we don't care to be reminded of our mortality. So we are offended by old people and want them out of our line of sight because.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's weakness too.

[Steve-O]

It's.

[Pete Holmes]

It's mortality and it's. And it's cousin weakness. It's like I'm watching my parents get older and I'm also watching people in their circle not be able to spend time with them because it's hard when somebody is shaking as they're drinking their tea and has to ride a little chair up the stairs. But like, I'm grateful again. Ram dass twice in 10 minutes. But he's like, in our culture, it's like we go out and the leaves are changing to red. They're dying. And we go out with green paint and we paint them and we. They're still green. They're still green. This is what Botox is. I feel horrible for the burden on everybody but women in particular that you're like, you can't age. Remember the new Top Gun? They didn't have the same woman.

[Steve-O]

Yeah, I didn't.

[Pete Holmes]

It doesn't matter. And then I looked up a picture of that woman and she like aged appropriately.

[Steve-O]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm not dragging Tom Cruise, but I'm like, it's sort of fucking weird that the hero of our country is 60 something and looks 30 something. And we're all just sort of like, yeah, yeah, death won't come. Like, what are we gonna do when Tom Cruise dies? What are we gonna do as a nation?

[Steve-O]

It's so funny. My, my. A friend of mine said, man, if it wasn't for Scientology, Tom Cruise would be the coolest guy who ever lived.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, it's funny. Can you imagine if he wasn't?

[Steve-O]

Just, can you imagine if it wasn't? And a very, very solemn, just staring out the window.

[Pete Holmes]

He was so close. He was so close. Well, he does. What does he do death defying stunts as well.

[Steve-O]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And he makes a point to be like, that's really me. So not only am I old and I'm defying that, but I'm also tempting death. How many times did he jump off that mountain on the bike? It's the same service. And don't I have this joke, it doesn't really work, but I go, you ever catch yourself watching TV and you're like, I can't die. I'm Captain America. Like, you, you project yourself onto these heroes and, or Tom Cruise, you go as with Tom. So with me, as you're eating a hoagie, you know what I mean? And like, it doesn't matter because you can imagine that's the service they provide is you will also look great. You will also cheat death forever.

[Steve-O]

Yeah, it's crazy. And the thing, you know, I'd like to take it to the, to the spiritual that this whole like, idea of death and, and I mean, it's an illusion, right? I mean, do we not have enough evidence now that like, with all the, the people's accounts of, of near death experiences, where they, they experience their, their, their life review.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah, yeah.

[Steve-O]

And, and I mean, are we not like at a place where, where we can actually understand that, that we're not the body, but there's nothing to be afraid of?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, but that's, again, that goes back to you. And I know I, I don't want to be too absurd by saying sometimes it's just a good old kick in the nuts. You know, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and it's just funny and it's great. But this is the podcast where we go a little bit deeper and go, there are these aesthetics in India that throw their at people and they eat.

[Steve-O]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And they're trying, I think I don't have a full understanding, but they're trying to say, like, don't you see this isn't real? Don't you see this isn't like your idea of being a good boy and God will love me is so absurd. And I know God's love is so encompassing that I'm going to do everything weird to freak you out because that's how sure I am that we're okay.

[Steve-O]

Yeah, we filmed with the Gories.

[Pete Holmes]

Really?

[Steve-O]

Yeah, a couple times.

[Pete Holmes]

More than once.

[Steve-O]

Once was for my show Wild Boys, which was sort of a, you know, a homoerotic comedy nature show. And it was just me and one other guy, Chris Pontius, and we had a really pretty fantastic experience with the Agories. They were just wild. Then we went to India again to film the second Jackass movie and we filmed with the Agoris with the whole cast. And we found that the whole cast of Jackass was not as tolerant as just me and Pontius were. It just wasn't hat like they were a gory phobic. They were doing. They were doing their, their gory thing and, and it didn't fly with all the guys.

[Pete Holmes]

What were they doing?

[Steve-O]

Just kind of acting a fool. Like they. I don't remember anything in particular, but I think there was like some leg humping kind of a thing. It was like, don't hump my leg, dude. Like the tolerance for. For, for jackass. Wasn't. It wasn't there.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, they had met their match. Would you.

[Steve-O]

Yeah, but, but I just. My experience wasn't that they were quite as thoughtful as you're suggesting.

[Pete Holmes]

I hear what you're saying. I, I even as I was saying that, I was like. I don't know if it's that intellectual.

[Steve-O]

Yeah, they were. They were quite. I don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

They were not. They were wild.

[Steve-O]

Yeah, they, they were. They were just trying to get a rise. Was. Was our, our deal or my impression.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

Drinking whiskey out of human skulls and.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

And then. Yeah, interesting. Yeah, interesting.

[Pete Holmes]

I think it does tie to what.

[Steve-O]

We'Re talking about, but on some level. Yeah, yeah, but I think that they've kind of. That they're just not coming from a place of, of God is accepting, you know, they're more just like, look at me, you know, like.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

Which I can relate to so much. It's. It's interesting too that, that death is not such a taboo subject and, and elders are appreciated in. Yeah, the, the. In India, Eastern hemisphere.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And they think we're nuts. And, and did you know, for example, postpartum, in countries where the mother and the grandmother, like sometimes both grandmothers all live in the same house, postpartum numbers Are like really low because it's just like we're supposed to be together. Generations of women, right. Your mother is supposed to be with the new mother and the grandmother and the grandfather. Like the whole thing is supposed to be supporting. And the fact that we isolate in these rectangles, we all go off to our rectangles is deeply unnatural. And, and we know this, but we don't really do anything about it.

[Steve-O]

Right. It's crazy, man. Yeah, it's, it's super crazy.

[Pete Holmes]

What? When you talk about the Aguri's rubbing the jackass guys the wrong way, I have to imagine one of my questions I just wrote, what's it like being you? And to make that a little bit more specific, you know, you're coming to do this podcast and I get a little nervous. Not really, because I've listened to your podcast and I know you're a thoughtful guy, but more than me being worried that you're gonna like, think I'm a prank guy and somehow sabotage me is your day to day life. Like a fan is gonna just see you and be like, he's the guy that likes being hit with a board.

[Steve-O]

Like, is that, I don't think that's so much it. I think that for fans or just people who are aware of me and encounter me in a public setting, that I'm considerably more approachable than a lot of people with, with, you know, profiles.

[Pete Holmes]

Tom Hanks. You might ignore Tom Hanks because. Oh my God.

[Steve-O]

Yeah, you might be like, oh, you know, like people just, they, they're like, I feel that I'm kind of a people's guy. For sure. It's very permissible to, to, to approach me and, and be, you know, but.

[Pete Holmes]

Nobody, like, licks you.

[Steve-O]

It, that's, that's kind of rare. Yeah, that's a little bit more rare.

[Pete Holmes]

It reminds me of punk rock where spitting on the guy singing is actually kind of like, oh, that's their hello. Like, I remember I saw Rancid when I was 17 and someone hawked not just spit, but like a loogie on Tim Armstrong's face and it just dripped down his face. He didn't even wipe it. And I was like, oh, this is a weird culture. So people don't tase you.

[Steve-O]

No, I mean, there have been situations like that, but it's certainly not the norm.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I'm glad to hear that.

[Steve-O]

Yeah, yeah, it's not the norm. I, I, you know what? Like, it's all I ever wanted was, it was attention. So it's, it's fitting that. That I, you know, that I should get it and be okay with it. Yeah. It's cool.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. But as you're getting older and you're having your attention needs met in other ways. Your podcast meets your stand up. Your fiance.

[Steve-O]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So now you're growing up and you don't. I got it. Like, when I saw Eric, Andre and Knoxville tasing each other on that show they were doing, I was like, this is me. But I was like, how old is Johnny? I'm just sort of like, right, can we give this guy a break? But it's almost like I worry about the obligation. Like, well, I have to do this. I did that. Do you ever feel that way? Do you ever just wanna.

[Steve-O]

I think I do feel obligated on some level. I feel like, you know, my next move has to be crazier. And check this out. It won't come out for some time, but I had a conversation with Caitlyn Jenner and, and Caitlyn Jenner was, she was saying that I made her think of Elton John and how he wore these huge elaborate costumes and each costume had to be even crazier and just got to a point where he's just like, yeah. You know, like, at which point do you see the bar? And just think. And just think, I'm not gonna, you.

[Pete Holmes]

Know, I did it. I'm just gonna wear a tuxedo.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. Just kind of. I'm just gonna wear a suit. A normal thing. And, and that, that had such a profound impact on me. To the, the, the Elton John metaphor. It was just like, man, I got one more, I got one more elaborate outfit in me. And then, and then I'd like to think that, that I can, you know, I've been evolving with podcasting, with stand up and, you know, all of these sobriety. Different things. For sure.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

That, that I think that I can find a way forward that doesn't involve like high impact.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

Stunts kind of thing.

[Pete Holmes]

I thought about you. I, I just pick up my dog. I have a five year old daughter and I picked her up yesterday, actually was a friend of hers. I flipped him upside down. And I love, I'm a big guy, so I love doing that sort of stuff. And I just felt something in my low back. It wasn't like a pull or anything, but I was like, like I needed to get a massage. Like it was like a therapeutic or I won't be able to walk. And I was like, that's got to be at play. I mean, you probably, for all the Great scar stories you have. You probably also have, like, in my stand up special, I told a story about hurting myself because I crouched in the shower and put my face back and forth. I threw my back out. Just, just doing that. So I mean, you have to have like some pretty lame, you know, injury stories.

[Steve-O]

Sure. I mean, I think that all of my issues are just standard 49 year old dude stuff.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

You know, I don't think like I have a torn meniscus. I'm getting operated on in two days and nothing happened. Right.

[Pete Holmes]

It was just your body.

[Steve-O]

Yeah, I think I was actually riding a bicycle.

[Pete Holmes]

Like the story is nothing.

[Steve-O]

Yeah, Nothing time. Right. So it must be cool though, because.

[Pete Holmes]

I'd love to talk to you about pain and courage and we're talking about overcoming stage fright and stuff. I know we were getting into stand up, but like, if you were. If I were, I'll have to get a colonoscopy soon. And then I, I'm like, if I could somehow bottle what you have. Is there any way that you could describe how you do things you don't want to do and how you say yes to fear and pain? Because it actually is useful. Like we have to do that. Some people, Birbiglia has to get a camera up his urethra, you know, to scan for whatever a couple times a year. So if we could, like, if there was a pill, the stevo pill. But what is the process? You're about to do a thing and it's going to hurt. What do you do? Do you not think about it?

[Steve-O]

A very useful tool for me is 1, 2, 3, go. I've never backed out. Like, 1, 2, 3, go.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, you just make a deal with yourself. We go on, go.

[Steve-O]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I think this whole civilization, the linchpins of the whole thing are people like you going like Oppenheimer. It's just like it could evaporize the whole known universe. 1, 2, 3, go. And they do it.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. My, my, my. My bull rider buddy once said, profoundly, you're never ready. It just becomes your turn. Wow. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay. With not readiness.

[Steve-O]

Yeah, I like that a lot. I think that in, in a general sense that, you know, I don't have any particular threshold for, for pain. Like I don't have a tolerance or either. I just. Because if I did, there wouldn't be, there wouldn't be that trepidation, that there wouldn't be that reaction, you know, that makes everything compelling.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So you need a real guy doing it. You don't want who. There was a Superhero that couldn't feel pain. You don't want that.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. I would be indifferent. It would be very boring.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So you need a real guy.

[Steve-O]

Yeah, you need a real guy. And I think that if I have some kind of a superpower, it's quite simply that my. My desire for attention outweighs my desire for comfort.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

It's really okay.

[Pete Holmes]

So to bring that to Earth because not a lot of people listening are stunt people. But isn't it funny that, like, bodybuilders are doing a very similar thing? The. The silly. The way that I can relate is I. I like cold exposure. And every time I do it, my body says, don't do it.

[Steve-O]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And then I just do it. That's my 1, 2, 3, go.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. I'd like rented. I learned that for my knee, that ice baths. Very helpful.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

And so just a couple days ago, I did, like, my first one.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Oh, wow.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. And, God, I hate it, of course. The worst.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah. You ha.

[Steve-O]

You always do that here.

[Pete Holmes]

I. I don't live here anymore, but where we live, we. We used to have it right there, and it made the move, and I use it every day.

[Steve-O]

And what temperature is the water that you get?

[Pete Holmes]

39.

[Steve-O]

39. Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

It's. Which is as cold as it goes, but I think you could. It freezes at, like, 34 or something. So you could go a little bit lower. Yeah, but that. I don't know the phenomenon of, like, tricking. Like, there's a. There's a part of you that's. This is kind of spiritual, I suppose that's watching your body, that's watching your mind, and your mind and your body are saying no. And I think there's something. Whether it's weightlifting, so super athletes, stunt people, even something as simple as getting in a tub of cold water. It's weird that there's a separate part of us that can go override. Like, I'm gonna. All the lights are flashing. Don't do it right. Isn't there some sort of clue that there's another part of us that can go. Because, you know, we do that with our moods. Like, you can choose a better mood. Like, you can choose a better outlook. You can. There's an overriding factor that's very useful. And a stunt or cold exposure or weightlifting is just like another expression of that same mechanism, perhaps.

[Steve-O]

How long do you stay in the 39 degrees?

[Pete Holmes]

Between three and seven minutes.

[Steve-O]

Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

Do you know why? You know why you don't want to stay in longer?

[Steve-O]

Why?

[Pete Holmes]

Because it'll Take too long to heat up. It's. You'll. You'll have to like, sit in a hot tub for 30 minutes to get back, and that's the risk. So, no, nobody, like, nobody says this more than you, but don't try that. And it takes a lot of training. You know, the first time I did it, I was blue bl lipped. It was. It was at 60. I was blue lipped and shaking. And then the next time you just. You built that. You do build up over time. And then it gets. So it's actually easy. And that's why you start staying in for seven minutes. Because I am chasing an endorphin. I'm an addict as well, so it's like I'm chasing, like a natural. There's no better feeling than seven minutes in cold water and then getting in a hot tub. It's. It's. I call it the full body jizz. It's incredible. You just don't know what to do. You're like. It's. It is like an orgasm.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. So tell me about being an addict, like your guy in recovery.

[Pete Holmes]

I didn't go through the program, although I admire the program and enjoy. I have a lot of friends in the program and everything I hear about it, I love. But I just noticed that, like, can I. Here's my theory. I'm going to put it to you.

[Steve-O]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Alcohol more than drugs. I still occasionally do psychedelics as a. I know that sounds like a weird thing, but it's a spiritual thing. I do occasionally do psychedelics and weed, but booze and. I'd love to hear what you think about this. I noticed that booze was the only thing that gave me as much attention as I wanted the world to give me meaning. It was a guaranteed experience. You drink this liquid, something will happen. It won't ignore you. Does that make sense?

[Steve-O]

The alcohol won't ignore you.

[Pete Holmes]

It will. It will attend to you.

[Steve-O]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

It could be good, it could be bad.

[Steve-O]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

But it won't ignore you. And somebody who wants. Wants something I want. There's a want. And alcohol would give it. So, like, I felt that way. You know, someone who wants attention and someone who wants alcohol pretty similar to me. Like, I was like, change how I feel. And it would go, okay.

[Steve-O]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And it was reliable and. And I recognized. I was like, this is never gonna stop. Like, talk about the witnessing thing. That was like, I know the body seems to like this. Even the parts that it doesn't like this. We need to step in and stop.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. It's interesting when it comes to attention. I remember being the kid in, in school who, when I had to get up in front of the class and give a class presentation, I would like the, the pressure and you could hear my voice like trembling, like with nervousness, you know, like, um, it, it's. It's really interesting to me, that whole dynamic. Because I, I wanted so much the, the attention, the, the, the approval, the praise. But I was so afraid.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

Of not being liked.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You have to risk your worst fear to get right. Greatest treasure.

[Steve-O]

Right. So it's just this, it's just kind of a rock and a hard spot situation. Like I want to be in the scene, but I'm terrified of it. And there was a report card that my sister saves all the. You know, she's like the family historian and she. We were going through stuff when I was setting about writing my first book and I found this sixth grade report card where the teacher wrote about me that, that I. I don't know if the word desperate was used, but I, but I so crave. Steve so craves the, the, the approval and praise of his peers. But everything he does seeking it brings about the opposite results.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Oh wow.

[Steve-O]

And it was so piercing to me because like, you know, there are just tragic situations where you want something so bad and your way of trying to get it like brings about the opposite result.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And you have to risk that and you actually kind of have to endure it. It reminds me of stand up. It's like you want to be a stand up. Be terrible at stand up for eight years. You know what I mean? Like, pretty bad, right? Pretty bad. At least for three years. You'll stink for sure.

[Steve-O]

And that, you know, it calls to mind too. Like that I think when, when people have a stutter that the stutter presents specifically at the times that they don't. They don't want it to. Right. You know, like. And that there's something really, really like tragic in that.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I wonder what that is.

[Steve-O]

Like, don't. When it's most important that you don't do something is when you're going to do it. The, the most you ever realize.

[Pete Holmes]

I mean, I'm sure you do. Sometimes I think I was stoned and I realized that I was the greatest threat to myself. And I don't mean that in a suicidal way. I mean I'm the one. Like I was planning on smoking 5 Meo DMT and I was like. Then I got stoned a couple weeks prior and I was like, like my body was Talking to me, being like, you're the problem. Like you're signing us up for paradigm shifting psychedelics. So the stutter potentially, Lord knows, I don't know, it's like the protector is going like, let's just shut everything down. And then we can just sit still and be ignored, but at least we won't be in danger as opposed to overcoming it and getting people looking at you. And then you're risking. It thinks you're risking even more.

[Steve-O]

Right. And you know what? I got into this with that speaking coach. It was very, very much more like therapy then, you know, and, and that my, my protector. Yeah, like my, my protector. Like it, I've got some mechanism trying to protect me.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Steve-O]

But it's not doing a good job.

[Pete Holmes]

But I mean, also, didn't it. I mean, all these things you did, took a kid who couldn't pass school.

[Steve-O]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Couldn't keep a job.

[Steve-O]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then it was like, I'm always trying to just recognize that everyone's doing the same thing. What I'm doing is like culturally acceptable. I, I'm a comedian. I got good at comedy and I do comedy. And then you watch someone who's not shiny and what are they doing, and it's like they're doing the exact same thing. They're finding what is unique about them and highlighting it and, and dimming the lights on what is deplorable about them. So in a sense, like, what you did really worked. Like the protector was right. It's like, let's go cling to a balcony. And now you, you know, probably live in a nice house.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I can't argue with that. I, I really can't. And I wonder what the, the parallel is there with, with, you know, the alcohol.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I could see that. I thought I was gonna blow you away with my attend. Alcohol gives you attention, but that is my thing. Mushrooms is a good example. Like, if you take mushrooms, you have like four hours of this thing only for you. Even if it's bad, you can't say it's ignoring you. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's like this thing is very interested in me right now.

[Steve-O]

My experience with mushrooms was that it made me introspective to a point of discomfort and, and introspective where I, I just found myself just tearing myself apart with criticism. Just arriving at the conclusion that I just suck.

[Pete Holmes]

Really?

[Steve-O]

Yeah. Like, I'm very mean to my. I was like, I'm not saying I, I. When I did take mushrooms.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

I Found myself very mean to myself and arriving at very negative conclusions about myself. Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

That's kind of. What about. Have you ever taken mdma?

[Steve-O]

It's like, I remember that being just ecstasy. Yeah, right? Yeah.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Ecstasy is MDMA with a little bit of an upper, I think.

[Steve-O]

Yeah, I took plenty of that and largely had all good experiences.

[Pete Holmes]

But did you ever have a therapeutic kind of feeling where it was the opposite? Here I'm just leading you to what? I took mdma and I was like, I had the very visceral experience of sweeping my own street. Like, there were all these doubts and like, I'm stupid. I'm not, I'm not. And all that got swept away. And I could see that my street was paved with gold. And I was like. It was very. Like, look at you. Even the podcast, it was like, you share your insecurities and people get to listen in and feel less alone in your comedy. And I was, like, overwhelmed that it got swept away. Did you ever receive anything like that?

[Steve-O]

No. Oh, man, that. That sounds wonderful. Yeah, that sounds wonderful, but no.

[Pete Holmes]

What about in therapy? Have you gotten to a. Or just in your conscious regular state? Have you gotten to a place where.

[Steve-O]

You'Re like, you know what? I've gotten to. And. And I haven't needed any kind of drugs or anything to get to this. But, like, I. I've discovered recently, and I'm sure it's not a new discovery, but. But I've. I've, you know, been reminded recently that I can take the best circumstance. Like, I have a really good life. You know, I've got a really, really good life, very fortunate circumstances, and I can take any situation and make myself miserable, really. Like, despite the best circumstances, I can just be very mean to myself. I can feel I can catastrophize.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

Like, even, like, my situation is great, but.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, but.

[Steve-O]

But it's not going to be okay. Like, I'm just barreling towards, like, some awful situation. Like, I can really, really.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, my wife's gonna leave me. That sort of stuff.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. I'm just gonna. I'm gonna lose everything. Like, you know, it's all over.

[Pete Holmes]

I'll be discovered.

[Steve-O]

I'm done. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That's funny, because your work is so, like, you can't discover me. I'll show it to you.

[Steve-O]

Yeah, I don't know that I'll be discovered. Is it as much. But. But people are just done with me, I think, you know, whatever, whenever, if they were interested, they've lost their interest.

[Pete Holmes]

But do you still need that like you used to. It's okay. To be honest. I mean, if we do, we do.

[Steve-O]

Oh. I don't think that there's really much dishonesty in me.

[Pete Holmes]

I felt like it was a potentially an embarrassing question.

[Steve-O]

No, no, no.

[Pete Holmes]

I would, like I'm saying, like, but you've clearly grown and you don't need it. Maybe we do.

[Steve-O]

No, I definitely. I. I think that, that this. This attention seeking thing is. Is very much in my DNA. There's no divorcing myself from that. But I think that the best I can strive to do is to find separation between the Persona.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

You know, the, The. The career and. And just whoever I am.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

And it's very, very important to do that because as long as my identity, my self worth, my self esteem is tied to the. The value of Steve O. As a commodity in the entertainment world.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

Then. Then I'm like that. I can't.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

You're.

[Steve-O]

You know, I'm.

[Pete Holmes]

You're totally like.

[Steve-O]

It's just not that. That's. That's just a road to misery. And so it was so important to me to, you know, to learn how to have a healthy relationship and find a life partner somewhere, you know, and really, like, cultivate an identity and an existence separate from all that.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

So that it can be okay for me to get old and be a walking party foul, you know?

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

This episode, Friends, is brought to us.

[Pete Holmes (Ad Reads)]

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[Pete Holmes]

I'm a huge believer in it, and.

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[Pete Holmes]

Steve O. I. I love that it. That also reminds me, I. Ideally, we all have a safe way to let out our shadow. And it seems like I say this all the time, but it had a profound impact on me. Again, a tribal thing, mask work that put on the mask and like the devil. They put on the devil mask and then, oh, I got the devil mask. You'd look at your reflection and then you would act devilish. And that was sort of like an agreed upon thing. We have this with Halloween, but this was like a ceremonial, like, oh, he's being the wicked devil. And of course he just took a dump on the fire or whatever it might have been.

[Steve-O]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

So in a good world, you'd have base Steve and then you'd be able to try on and put on Steve O when you need him.

[Steve-O]

Yeah, I think, and I think that I've actually on some level developed the ability to do that.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

And I think that, that there's a blending. I think I live a double life where when I need to be super crazy and do some super wild stuff, I have the ability to turn that on.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

And I'm very calculated about it too. You know, I'm very deliberate about when I amp up the crazy.

[Pete Holmes]

How do you know it's time I get itchy.

[Steve-O]

Do you start being weird?

[Pete Holmes]

Is your wife like, you need to jump out of helicopter?

[Steve-O]

No, no, nothing like that.

[Pete Holmes]

It's not to solve a behavior or a feeling.

[Steve-O]

No, no, no, no, no, nothing like that. It's, it's very, very, you know, it's like asking you when, when, when's the time to write a joke?

[Pete Holmes]

But like, it's interesting because I will start dreaming about it. Like, I'll dream. Okay, I'll have a recurring dream that I'm looking at my set list and I don't know what it means. I get anxious. I get a little bit irritable and then I'm like, my wife will say, you need to go do stand up.

[Steve-O]

All right.

[Pete Holmes]

Like it's this like Medicine that I dole out. And I'm always trying to do it as little as possible.

[Steve-O]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, meaning I. I just want to water it enough to keep it healthy and alive. I don't want to over water it.

[Steve-O]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And become a perversion or something.

[Steve-O]

Okay, so.

[Pete Holmes]

But do you have. Just to be frank, could you retire?

[Steve-O]

Could I retire?

[Pete Holmes]

No, I don't mean, like psychologically. Like, are you sad enough that you could retire and then we can talk about whether or not you could retire?

[Steve-O]

I think, I think that, that that's the toughest question, because the more money you save, the more financially insecure you feel, I think is a weird dynamic.

[Pete Holmes]

What do you mean?

[Steve-O]

I mean, they've done surveys of people and found that the more money they have, the more that they experience financial insecurity. Like, particularly people with over $10 million of savings feel. They report that they feel financially insecure. And I think that that's evidence of a reality where we don't get satisfaction from saving large amounts of money that actually, in fact, the money creates a vacuum where the more you have, the more you need, and it becomes this crazy. And so when you ask me, am I set enough to retire, I suppose. I suppose I would have to really change my lifestyle and reduce my overhead. Your helicopter budget, my fixed costs are pretty absurd and scary, but don't you think you might.

[Pete Holmes]

As you were saying that, I was like Elton John came up again. He got audited at some point, and it was embarrassing. And there was a trial. And I remember one of the things they brought to the jury and the judge was, you spend something like 26,000 doll a month on flowers. And I don't know why I know that. Like, what is this public shaming? But I was like, when you have infinite money, you start spending more money. Because I think there's part of you that knows that's at least in part the engine that keeps the thing that actually makes you fulfilled, which is your work. And if you have, if, if you're always spending, you'll need to make more, but you'll get this byproduct of fulfillment from the work that you do to make that money.

[Steve-O]

Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I. I just know that, that I find myself a little bit frustrated that, that, like, the human nature applies to me. You know, like, like, like, let's say, for example, you know, the, the more successful I became, the more money I earned. It was very natural for me to like, oh, you're gonna get this percentage. You're gonna, like, Just to be, I, I, it was very natural for me to recognize the people who helped me achieve my success and, and have them participate in it. And, and so that like I've, you know, and by doing that I've cultivated, cultivated you know, a loyalty amongst my team that, that's really, really unbelievable.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

And, and I, I only recently have I, you know, adopted and developed a more sophisticated level of accounting to really be able to see like how it's all shaking out and really, really understanding. Wow, I made that much money and held on to that little of it, you know. And, and in that the kind of revelation, you know, comes a fear and, and then like ah, I gotta, I've gotta like really curtail my generosity on some level, you know. Like it's, I don't want to be the guy who made or earned millions and millions of dollars and like MC Hammer doesn't have it all. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

So.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, your generosity slight sidebar into economics is coming out of your gross. You're, you're giving gifts based on I gave you a million dollars and then you're giving a hundred thousand dollars, but then you actually, you're taxed to 500, then your reps take 30% and now you're making 300,000 and you gave a hundred thousand for sure away.

[Steve-O]

And, and, and you just gave a third away. Yeah, it's, it's all just, just kind of. I, I'm, I'm, I'm at the intersection of my, you know, I, I want to be like generous. I want to not, you know, I want to just not, not care. Be creative and, and, and it's all good and, but I also want to be smart. So like, you know, the, the ego is, is here to, to help us survive because we, we are biological organisms that need to eat and eat. You know, but on a spiritual level, like we're, you know, our, our actual well being comes from, from love and, and so the, the balance of, of survival and, and, and yeah, head and heart. And so I'm at this and it's just, I feel like I'm in a crunch point where I'm like having to acknowledge that human nature applies to me.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's a bummer.

[Steve-O]

Yeah, it's a bummer.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I know, I totally hear that. It reminds me, it's so relatable what you're saying to everybody, not just showbiz people negotiating millions of dollars, but we're going like. I think the reason the trope exists this was just in red Dead Redemption 2. Did you play that, by any chance, you're out there stapling your nuts.

[Steve-O]

You can't be playing.

[Pete Holmes]

It's hard to get a thrill from a video game. But, you know, cops in movies are always a day away from retirement, and then they get shot.

[Steve-O]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, and I think the reason we see that as, like, profoundly true is we're all the cops going, like, one more job, one more job, one more job. When really one of the things that is really strange to me is the level of consciousness or the mindset that fosters success, fosters a lot of money, is exactly the mindset that makes it impossible to enjoy it.

[Steve-O]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because you're always, you're hungry, you're driven, you're itchy, and you, you had to use all that hunger and drive and itchiness to get to this point, and now you can't sit on the beach. I'm not saying that's what I'm hearing you say. I'm saying that's something we all have to work with, is like, you can relax a little bit. You can really.

[Steve-O]

That means. Very interesting. That's very interesting. And I, I. Last year I published my second book.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

And the, the final chapter of my second book begins with the question, are you happy? Italicized, you know, are you happy? And I go on to describe that. That question is. Always bothered me that, that I've found it invasive, offensive, because my initial instinct has always been, am I happy? Like, I feel like I do some kind of a, like a, a mental scan of my body. Like, am I happy? And my everything tells me, no, I'm not, you know, I'm not happy. I'm, I'm actually gripped by anxiety. I'm like just a ball of stress. That, that my core belief that my default setting is, is one of believing that, that even if everything's okay now, it's not going to be okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Steve-O]

You know, like, I'm not going to be okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, the ego, this is Ramdas as well. The ego, which is what you're scanning.

[Steve-O]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And that's not a bad thing. That's what we do when people say, are you happy? We look around the contents of our mind, our psyche, our bodies. And the truth is, this is straight Ram Dass. He goes, the ego can only experience peace for like, the briefest of moments. I hand you the Oscar. You get it for a moment. But the question that's super important, I think, is, is the scanning mechanism that's looking for the quality called happiness, is that neutral awareness is it happy. And I think when we investigate, not just take it as my word, but when we investigate the nature of the flashlight, not what the flashlight shines on. Oh, is there happiness in here? But is the flashlight made of happiness? Is it made of peace? And that's the answer. But it's as tricky as a knife stabbing itself. How do you turn a flashlight to look at its own quality? And that's what the spiritual practice is. Is going. All of those feelings. Happiness, success, anxiety. Are you anxious right now? I'm assuming you're not. So these things. But what I'm saying is you're not angry right now, and other times you're angry. So these are clouds going through the sky, and we want to identify with the sky, but the ego can't come. That's the. The ego is stuck in the human predicament. But I do think there's a part of us sure isn't. And that. And identifying with that is the only piece. It's the only one. I just had good news. Felt good for about 30 minutes. I timed it. I timed it. I was like, when will this good feeling lasted 30 minutes? And it was a big one.

[Steve-O]

So.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right.

[Steve-O]

Well, what I arrived at, you know, because we live in a society where it's not. It's not okay to say I'm not happy. No. So he said, are you happy? Like, you can't say, as a matter of fact, no, I'm not. I'm not happy. Like, it's just.

[Pete Holmes]

Then you're a failure.

[Steve-O]

Yeah, it's not an acceptable answer. And I think that's why I, I, the, the question always bothered me so much, you know, it's like, like I don't know if I'm having. Like, it's a new business. Like, you know, like. But I really chewed on it more and more. I thought about it, you know, why. Why should it bother me so much? And what I arrived at is I actually became okay with it because in my view, like, what is the happiness? You know, like. Like, let's say, hypothetically, if I was happy, like I imagine that that is. Is Would be to be content. And it follows to me that to be content is dangerously close to lazy.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, wow.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. Like. Like, what's happiness gonna get me? Like, where. Where there's no, you know, and like, and. And my reality of being just, like, I'm not okay, like, everything. If, even if I'm okay right now, like, man, I'm gonna be screwed. I'm gonna lose everything. Like, I'm not gonna be okay. I've gotta frantically hurry up and hustle and try to do something to make it so that I'll be okay.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

And. And that. That is effectively, like the fire under my ass that you're afraid of losing.

[Pete Holmes]

You wanna keep.

[Steve-O]

Makes me strive and like. Like, it's because I'm so palpably uncomfortable all the time that. That I work so hard and that I strive so much.

[Pete Holmes]

It's hard to know the difference, though. I know what you mean. Because when I'm lit up and motivated to write something, it's a great feeling. But it's hard to know how much we're unconsciously, ritualistically reenacting familiar traumas, going, like, I'm comfortable being uncomfortable. The first time I got stoned, it made me so relaxed, it freaked me out. I was 28 years old, and I was like, I had to find something to worry about before I could fall asleep. And that was my first little glimpse that I was like, this isn't the healthiest paradigm. It did drive me, and I created a lot of stuff, and I'm glad that I did. But at a certain point, I want to put this to you to see what you think. I'm a huge lover. I didn't want to say fan, but Rupert Spira wrote this book called you are the happiness you seek. Right.

[Steve-O]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

So it's really looking at the question of what is happiness? And he's again, I think, making the very compelling argument that this neutral, spacious field of awareness that we are is, for lack of a better word, happy. It is like you are happiness, and when something good happens to you, he uses the example of he gave his son a gift and it made him happy. But what he thinks is happening then is. And this is very Buddhist, when you get the thing you want for that brief moment, you're no longer striving, meaning you're no longer resisting, you're no longer averse to your reality, so you settle down, and all of this clinging and attraction and aversions, they go away because you have the thing. But when they go away, your real nature, which is spacious happiness, is revealed. So when you say, like, it's all fucked, I'm barreling towards a time when Siva won't be able to achieve and won't be able to be praised. And that's all true. But the good news is that that innate happiness that you are will be with you then. And we should be practicing on how to dip into that rather than looking for the next gift. The Next present, the next hit.

[Steve-O]

Right. And Buddhism. Buddhism. Is that where you get the. The idea that all suffering comes from craving?

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

No matter what your sit, you want it to be better. If you're in pain, you want the pain just to lessen.

[Pete Holmes]

If you're in pleasure, you want it to last.

[Steve-O]

You want it to last longer. So that's why that. That phenomena of craving and this and the craving being the source of all suffering is precisely why I'm able to take an absolutely wonderful circumstance and be miserable in it.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

Because I want it to improve.

[Pete Holmes]

And then the practice, because I relate to what you're saying, I can do that, too, is learning to say yes to what is. And we can. We can do that. Right now. It's hard because, like, I want this podcast to go well, and after this, I have to get across town, all that stuff. But it's like surrendering Byron. Katie calls it the thought that kicks you out of heaven. Right. So you're in a hammock and it's sunset and it's perfect temperature, and you think, be great if I had an iced tea. And that's the thought. That's the thought that kicks you out of heaven. So the practice that I'm working on that seems like it might be interesting to you is. And I always use traffic as an example. Instead of postponing your happiness to when you arrive, how many times have you arrived? You know what I mean? How many times have you gotten to the thing and did the thing and you're done with the thing and none of it worked yet? We keep thinking, if I just arrive on time and if I do the thing and they say the thing, I'll be happy. All of this is going. You are made of peace. And all of this clinging and striving and resisting and averting is keeping you from your state. And even as we're talking about it, I'm like, it's true. This isn't just a thought experiment. When I'm in an uncomfortable situation, I ask myself, is the part of me that knows my experience, the knowing part of me, does it need anything? And it's always okay. So if I'm trying to, like, move myself to that instead of Pete, Pete will never be okay. Steve, we've done 700 episodes of this podcast.

[Steve-O]

I'd be really, well, what the fuck, dude?

[Pete Holmes]

Like, so I like having a thing to do, and that's all fine. That's over on this plane. But, like, the real game is Eckhart Tolle says how you feel right now is how you feel about your life. So how you feel right now, this is. That's all. That's all it is. And when you. And the other thing that came to mind is when they would ask Ram Dass, are you happy? He would look around and go, yeah, I'm happy. He's looking around, Ramdas, for the feeling of happy. He goes, are you sad? And he's like, yeah, I'm sad. Are you angry? Yeah. Who can't find it? It's in there. It's all in there. But the thing that's looking for those feelings is. Okay.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. I mean, like, I agree with all of that. I think that at the same time, as, you know, I do genuinely believe that objectively, if I could choose being content or, you know, this constant state of. Of I'm not okay. Like, I. There's something really, really appealing about the Hustle that comes from feeling like I'm not okay.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, I want you to know I completely understand.

[Steve-O]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Look at my life.

[Steve-O]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I love all this stuff, and I love banging out a script, sending it. I'm waiting right now. I'm hoping when we're done with this conversation, I have the email that says, I love it. No notes. Yeah, this is ready. Let's go.

[Steve-O]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's fun to go to bargaining. It's just when it stops working for you. And it will.

[Steve-O]

Right. And that's the thing, too.

[Pete Holmes]

We need to be ready.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. Like, I choose the hustle. I love the Hustle. But at the same time, I get to a point where I have to recognize that. That forcing and pushing and trying to will something to happen that's not supposed to happen.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Steve-O]

Isn't. That's not hustling. That's. That's.

[Pete Holmes]

When does it become a compulsion and when does it become illness, like a mental illness? I. I think I probably growing up in this culture, I think there are a lot of civilizations throughout time that would think both you and I, even sitting here calmly, are deeply mentally ill. 100%.

[Steve-O]

And they're right.

[Pete Holmes]

And they're right.

[Steve-O]

They're. They're. They're. They're absolutely right.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

You know that like, I. Here I am extolling the virtue of deep unhappiness for its results. Right.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

How many people are absolutely mentally ill?

[Pete Holmes]

This is the cop who, who says he's going to retire. Like, someday we'll be happy. Someday we'll hang it up. Someday we'll stop seeking approval from strangers and all that stuff. But, like, there is no day There'll just be your last day.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I. I'm hoping that, you know, my lady and I, we. We. We bought a ranch in Tennessee. Like, I. I love fantasizing about us growing our own food.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

You know, like, they're just kind of living there, like. And. And I'm actually gonna be in Tennessee for. For like the whole month of December. Knoxville, Tennessee, north of Nashville. Okay. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Knoxville, Tennessee, is not a place, is it?

[Steve-O]

It is.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, oh, right. You got it. Is that where he's from? I thought it was. I thought I was making a clever joke. That just is a place.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. Knoxville. Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

That's why. That's so familiar.

[Steve-O]

Nashville. But.

[Pete Holmes]

But the trick is.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. Like, I mean, I don't know. I'm like, I don't know what it's going to be like to try and not do anything.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

I mean, of course I'm not going to try to not do anything, but I'm gonna strive to do less.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, the. The only. All the spiritual things point. It's just now.

[Steve-O]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So I'm inviting both of us to. In our.

[Pete Holmes (Ad Reads)]

Right here.

[Steve-O]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Have that ranch feeling as you drive away from.

[Steve-O]

I like that.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I mean? Instead of. The ego will always choose a journey over a destination.

[Steve-O]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

So it's like, if only we can get there. Just be there right now. I don't mean delude yourself and say you're at the ranch, but.

[Steve-O]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

I think whatever I'm seeking, be spacious inside.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Cling to things a little less tightly inside. And now you're at a ranch. What is a ranch but a space? Why do we love views, unobstructed views and vistas and ranches. Is because it reminds us of our own ability to be spacious inside. You know, when you feel tight and everything's. You're wrestling with everything when you have a negative feeling. One of the great techniques that my wife Val, has helped me with is like, give it space and see that it's not the whole thing. You can have that red ball of flame and you're in it, but, like, give it a little. Step back a little bit. Try to see its dimension and its size and see that it's a phenomenon that's existing in you. It isn't you. Spacious ranch.

[Steve-O]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Vista view.

[Steve-O]

I love that. I love that. And. And it. It reminds me, too, of all the people who went to, like, India for some spiritual thing. And it's like, you really didn't have to travel all the way to India.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, we're in India right now. There is no India. The space that's in this room is the same space that's outside of Jupiter. You know what I mean? It's. And we get trapped in this. You ever been really stone? I have. And you're walking, and you get the distinct sensation that you're. You're not. You're not moving towards the bakery. The bakery is just coming towards you because your feet are moving. It's almost like a treadmill. It's a very stone feeling. But the reason why that's true, in a sense, is that you are always and only and ever here. And you're only and always ever now. And things just kind of travel through this still point that never is really moving. I've had that feeling. You fly somewhere crazy, and wherever you go, there you are. You're just like, yeah, it doesn't matter. I feel that way when I look at pictures of distant space. And I'm like, People are like, isn't it crazy how small we are? I'm like, it's the same. I am. That knows itself there. That is. This here. It's all. It's all. It's only big if you give it a relationship. Do you know what I mean? Nothing exists. Time, space doesn't exist. It's just this one thing that knows itself, and you can put it anywhere. And I think a lot of the people that came back from India were like, it wasn't India. It was you the whole time.

[Steve-O]

Right. This one thing that you can put anywhere is more like one thing that's divided itself into things that are everywhere.

[Pete Holmes]

That's right. But in the same way this is. Again, Rupert Spira. Everybody should check him out. But he says, like, we're like this room. He says, if you describe the contents of this room, most people would say, there's a couch, there's a bigger couch, there's a backdrop, there's Katie, there's that. But very few people would say the space in the room. So we're like that. We're these four walls that are housing and giving a temporary identity to this space. But in a million years, none of this will be here. This space will be the same, and we're like that space. You know what I'm saying? You're housing a little block of the space and giving the illusion that you and I are different in the same way that the space of this room appears to be different from the space at the top of the Sears Tower. But it's the same space. It's the Same empty space. That's how we are.

[Steve-O]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Do you want to do some ketamine?

[Steve-O]

I would love to, but I can't.

[Pete Holmes (Ad Reads)]

I know, I know, I know.

[Pete Holmes]

It just sounds like a ketamine thought.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. I mean, yeah, ketamine's awesome.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You had a problem though. I mean.

[Steve-O]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That stuff's not for.

[Steve-O]

It didn't bring out the best in me.

[Pete Holmes]

You had wild experiences on ketamine?

[Steve-O]

Yeah, I was. Yeah, I, I, I did. I did a lot of drugs and, and I lost my license.

[Pete Holmes]

They revoked your license. What about, what about anger? You seem like such a chill guy, and then when I was researching you and you are. Meaning I'm not. This doesn't take that away. But there are stories of like, altercations with people in the audience and stuff. Is there, there's a temper. You were arrested once. Did you attack someone in the audience?

[Steve-O]

I didn't. What happened was there was. This was before I got sober too. An audience member, like took my bottle of tequila from, from the stage. I didn't even notice that. I only saw the bouncers go and, you know, handling. And so I thought the bouncers were impressive and, and fierce. And I said, it's on a whim. Who wants to get on stage and try to run past the bouncers? We'll call it British Bulldog and it'll be great. The bouncers are going to really mess somebody up. So I orchestrated this event.

[Pete Holmes]

A coup. Really?

[Steve-O]

Yeah. This kid, there's this kid and I was like, okay, you get up here. We're playing Bruce Bulldog. And he tried to run past the bouncers and they were like these college football players. And it was a little bit anti climactic. They just grabbed him and sort of as an afterthought, they lifted this kid up above their head and they slammed him on the stage and he was like, knocked out.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, no.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. It ended up, it was on, on camera and then, then it ended up being a criminal charges and against you. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

For this reminds me of what they're talking about with January 6th. It's like, did you indeed sight.

[Steve-O]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Is that your fault?

[Steve-O]

I was a principal to second degree battery.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, wow.

[Steve-O]

And which was a felony. And this happened in 2002. Now since then, having a temper with like, like performing stand up of like with, with, with disruptive audience members. I mean, it's a thing that we all deal with and I, I think it accumulates over time where you end up in, in kind of a straw that broke the camel's back. Kind of situation where, like, you know, my. My ability to tolerate disruptive audience members will. Will recede. It'll. It'll diminish.

[Pete Holmes]

And.

[Steve-O]

And I. I don't know that. That. I mean, I just. I just generally draw a pretty hard line, you know, with that. I take the stance that it's disrespectful to the entire audience.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's not just you. It's the show.

[Steve-O]

Right. And, like, I'm so passionate about the, you know, the art that I'm performing and the idea that, you know, I'm in a theater with a thousand people who are here and. And really. Really have this relationship going on that's being vandalized.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

Yeah, it's vandalism.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

You know, it doesn't take any skill to key a car. Just like, it doesn't take any skill to, you know, vandalize a performance.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

And so, yeah, like, I. I have had bouts with, you know, just not handling that well, and I don't think there's. I don't think that there's really any way to handle it. Well, if you don't acknowledge it, then it will.

[Pete Holmes]

What do you mean?

[Steve-O]

You.

[Pete Holmes]

You go hard at them verbally.

[Steve-O]

Yes. And in some, like, just like. Yeah. I mean, like, dude, you're not invited to screw up the show. You know, like, you're just not like.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, but that sounds okay.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But I have to imagine. Correct me if I'm wrong, but do the fans like this. Are they kind of egging Steve O. To be.

[Steve-O]

I don't think. I don't think that I. I don't think that there's ever a good outcome. I think that as soon as you acknowledge it and shut it down, like, it's never benefited the show.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, like, that was my favorite part.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. Nobody. Like, it's not, like, it's not awesome.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

And, you know, if. If you're. If you try to be, like, like, gentle and delicate about it, it's not effective. So in order to be effective, you got it. Almost deplete the energy of the. Of the show.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

So I've done that. And then you come back to your material, and you're like, why are we listening to this guy? He just yelled at us.

[Steve-O]

Right.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

This is. This is uncomfortable.

[Steve-O]

Right. Shot me. I don't know. Like, and. And different situations, I've. I've been, like, really aggressive. Like, you know, like, and. And. And where that was counterproductive. Like, I just. I don't know. It's something that, that I actually got into therapy before that. Yeah. I literally signed up with my own promo code for better help to get into therapy, to try to work out like, why I'm so incensed and so.

[Pete Holmes]

What did you uncover?

[Steve-O]

I.

[Pete Holmes]

Because you can swap therapists at any time. Promo code.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Weird. Yeah.

[Steve-O]

Right? I mean, what did I uncut? Like, I did. It's almost like 12 step inventory. You know, like, I've got unreasonable expectations. You know, I've like, I've got a lot of. Lacking compassion. You know.

[Pete Holmes]

It'S such an embarrassing question and you have to be like, I don't know, lacking compassion.

[Steve-O]

It's really what it is. Yeah, no, I know it's really what.

[Pete Holmes]

It is, but I like, unrealistic. Eddie if told me that it was like the four agreements. He was like, don't take it personally.

[Steve-O]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And that is taking it.

[Steve-O]

That's a very good one. I'm taking it personal personally and have it on, you know. Right, right.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

And. And I think that when I'm. When I handle heckling the, the worst, when it affects me the most, I think that, that really, it's got a lot less to do with the heckling and it's got a lot more to do with.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I'm the stated uncovered in you.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. And. And I'm. Like I said, my touring schedule has been unhealthy at times.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're going too hard.

[Steve-O]

I'm burning the candle at both ends. And, and if I'm, you know, I, I had a, you know, a mentor that I, I did inventory work with who described the, the thing on people's desk where it's like four balls and you pull back the one ball, but it's something four balls down that pops off. Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

So when, when, when popping off, it's.

[Pete Holmes]

The symptom, it's not the.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. Like when, when I'm really, really feeling riled up, I've got to ask myself, what's underneath this?

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

You know, what, like what, what, like what, what's the, what's the, the initial ball?

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because the thing is not the thing. As they say in therapy.

[Steve-O]

The thing is not the thing. And, and, and so, yeah, I think recognizing that and looking for what the thing actually is.

[Pete Holmes]

What is the thing? I mean, this, this horrible prank that you're stuck in.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I mean, it seems like that's enough.

[Steve-O]

I wouldn't, I wouldn't necessarily describe myself as, you know, over, like angry. I think that, you know, when it comes to that stuff I like. I, I, My only excuse is passion.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, my only defense, your honor.

[Steve-O]

Yeah, passion. I'm passionate about my art.

[Pete Holmes]

It cuts to the fully ancient Greek jury and they're like, he's innocent.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. I mean, really, like, you know, I, I'm through and through. I am a genuine attention whore. I genuinely care so much about that connection with the audience and the delivery of my art to the audience.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

That I do not take kindly to that being interfered with.

[Pete Holmes]

Does it, why does it feel like you're getting all set up to do a drug? Like, are you, like, this is all set up for me to get the attention that I need? Or is it more altruistic that you're like, the show is for them? What is your perspective on why the show is sacred?

[Steve-O]

I.

[Pete Holmes]

Is it harshing your buzz or is it ruining something greater?

[Steve-O]

I think this is ruining something greater. I mean, like, here's this, this, this great experience, you know, like, it, it follows logically that regardless of how respectful all of the audience members are, I walk away with the same compensation for the engagement.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

You know, nothing, it, nothing has any bearing on, on my financial renumeration. And so clearly what it's not about whether I'm, you know, they're not messing with my money, you know, like, they're just messing with the experience.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Steve-O]

And they lose for me. Like, I think that they're like, I, I like to believe, and I genuinely do believe that there's some integrity in that, that, like, the only thing at stake is the experience.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

And I, I, I genuinely care about the experience.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

You know, maybe there's part of it too, that I've got like some kind of a self consciousness, some kind of a complex about whether I belong on that stage. And, you know, and so, like, the experience that people have when I am on the stage, it matters to me so much.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, don't hide your identity.

[Steve-O]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

So, I mean, I don't know. There's certainly a lot there. Yeah, there's certainly a lot there. And, And I really care.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, it is life or death to part of you.

[Steve-O]

You're like, yeah, yeah, I really care. And so. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You ever seen a ghost? You seem like a guy who's seen a ghost.

[Steve-O]

Yeah, I've seen, I mean, I've had a lot of psychosis, but have you.

[Pete Holmes]

Ever seen one that you're like, I think that was a ghost.

[Steve-O]

I consider it more hallucinations.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, okay.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. I once saw a guy walk through the wall and then like, gesture and respect to the memory of my mother, and then continue into the living room and actually pick up my bong and take a hit off of it and then walk back through the wall. I mean, I guess that was a ghost.

[Pete Holmes]

Or your buddy Steve, who's sleeping in the van in the back. He hit your bong.

[Steve-O]

He. He lit. That was the crazy part, was that I saw the bong lifted up in the air and.

[Pete Holmes]

Did anyone else. Were you alone?

[Steve-O]

No, I was alone. There was a time when. When a whole group came into my apartment and. And to stage a formal intervention. And later it turned out that none of them were ever there. I. I literally.

[Pete Holmes]

Wait, did they leave? So at the end of the intervention, they were like, goodbye.

[Steve-O]

I think it became clear that they weren't there, like, while it was happening. Wow. But, yeah, they're. They're. They congregated in concern.

[Pete Holmes]

And this was a drug flashback, not a drug you had taken that.

[Steve-O]

No, it was while in psychosis on, you know, roughly two or three full days into cocaine benders.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Wow.

[Steve-O]

Like, I was. I would have been doing cocaine, staying awake for two to three days and inhaling more nitrous oxide than anything else.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Wow. Yeah.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. And I loved those experiences.

[Pete Holmes]

The fake intervention.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. I mean, like, everything. There were a lot of, like, fake interventions. There were a lot of, like.

[Pete Holmes]

What did you love about it? Wouldn't that be jarring that you then realized they weren't there?

[Steve-O]

Just that. That I was privy to this activity from other dimensions was so, you know, that, like, I had consumed enough chemicals for the barriers between the veil. Yeah, it erodes the barriers.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

And it opens up, you know, other energies. You know, the problem with doing it with chemicals is that. That you invite in all frequencies. So you've got, like, demons and, you know, like, I called it demons and angels and demons. And so it's. It's. It's. It's dangerous. It's not, like, healthy. It's not good. But, man, is it wild. I really. I really did love it. Hearing voices and. And seeing all this wild stuff happen.

[Pete Holmes]

Because you weren't bored. Is that what you loved about it? Like, something was happening.

[Steve-O]

I mean, dude, like, they were just, like, tricks. I called them. There. There were demons and there were angels, and then there were, like, trickster spirits, like, that would entertain me, like, with unbelievable magic. Like, the chair I was in was just one time. It erupted into flames, and the flames weren't burning me at all, but I was just engulfed in flames in this awesome chair. And it was like, man wasn't even hurting me. I was just like. Like, I had this. This skateboard was. Was drilled to the wall above the door to my apartment from, you know, on the inside. And I had a globe. Like a. You know, the. The world. A globe. It was. The base of it was drilled to the skateboard, so the globe was protruding like this. And like the liquid Terminator, I saw my own face pushed from inside the globe. Like, it just came out, like. And it was me, but it was the globe. And then the globe started going, like, head banging, you know, like. And I'm sitting there watching this happen, realizing how, like, absurd it was and how it couldn't be real, but, like, checking with myself. Nope. Like, it's still happening, you know, like, can't be real, but it. It's. It's. Yep. Not. It's. It's persisting. There was just a million things like that that would happen. Like, you know, these curtains just, like, opening and closing on their own with all these, like, lights flashing that were just never there. And it's all really, really incredible stuff.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm trying to tie it to what you did with pranks and continue to do with stunts. I mean, like, this reality is absurd and mysterious and way stranger. And it seems. I'd like your response to, like, all of us walking around with belts and khakis and going to Kinko's and making copies and. And going to a birthday party. You seem to have this, like. This is what. Judd Apatow called me just a minute ago, and he said to ask you about your feeling about that the world is absurd. And it.

[Steve-O]

It.

[Pete Holmes]

You kind of seem like you want us to look at it. Stop denying it. So a face coming through a globe, I think, would be administering to that. You're like, I knew it. I knew this place was weird. It's not clean white KED sneakers. It's a disaster. And it's wild. And it's strange.

[Steve-O]

In that same apartment, I remember, like, feeling an undeniable presence. Sense of. Of. Of God, actually. God was just in, like, you know, in my. My space. I was like, okay, so next. And I'm just like, okay, so. So, God, like, you know, now that you're here, you know, like. Like, tell me, why is the world so up? And there was just. There was just silence, which, in and of itself was a response, and that the silence was just an indication on some level that, like, I'm not meant to understand it, but everything's actually the way it's supposed to be. And it's almost like in the silence, it's like you're not here. Like. Like, don't add. Don't ask me. You know, this is the world, you know?

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah, like.

[Steve-O]

Like, you know, not the world.

[Pete Holmes]

The answer was no answer.

[Steve-O]

Yeah, the answer was no answer. And it was very powerful, like, to kind of like, hey, man, like, it. What is, is. You know, there's simply that. There's not right or wrong. There's not good or bad. There's simply what is.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that's Shakespeare. Nothing is good or bad, but thinking makes it so know. It's just what's happening.

[Steve-O]

Right. I. I really had a profound experience and. And an adjustment of my view of the universe from reading Conversations with God, book one. Really, really love that.

[Pete Holmes]

Who wrote that?

[Steve-O]

Neil Donald Walsh.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Okay.

[Steve-O]

It was on the New York Times bestseller list for almost three years.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Really?

[Steve-O]

Yeah. I think it's set a record.

[Pete Holmes]

Wow. And what is it? What is it?

[Steve-O]

It's a fairly implausible premise. It's a guy asking God questions and intuitively receiving responses which he himself writes down. So he writes this whole dialogue.

[Pete Holmes]

Channeled book.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. It's a dialogue.

[Pete Holmes]

Or is it fiction? Was he saying he was doing this? He was having this conversation.

[Steve-O]

He said that he was channeling. Yeah, he was interacting intuitively, receiving responses. He wrote down the entire dialogue, which is. Which is a tough pill to swallow to. Since. Okay, well, you know. However, almost three years on the New York Times bestseller list, like, lends some kind of credibility to it.

[Pete Holmes]

You remember, did anything striking about God come from your.

[Steve-O]

For sure. My mom had suffered an aneurysm on October 10th of 1998, and she survived it, but multiple brain surgeries. She was heinously disabled, both physically and mentally. And the. The five years which she survived after this aneurysm was. Was just pure, pure hell. She developed bed sores and was screaming in pain. And like, it was just the most awful, traumatizing thing that I've ever been through, like, without anything even remotely close. Close.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

And. And I found myself very, very angry at any God that could allow for such horrible suffering to happen to my mom. And what the book Conversations with God helped me with so much was that it pointed to a flaw in my thinking. My thinking was based on the. The erroneous belief that God was somehow separate from my mom. God over here allowed this to happen to my mom, who's over there.

[Pete Holmes]

Wow.

[Steve-O]

And that's wrong.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

But the idea that we are all God, that God, that. That what we are what all of us are in this realm of the relative is an exercise in the universe experiencing itself.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yes.

[Steve-O]

And I don't have to understand why God valued this experience, why it was important.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

You know, but the idea that God wasn't over there and let it happen over there. But. But that actually my mom wasn't alone. My mom was God. My mom was an expression of God.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. So God was suffering with. And as your mom.

[Steve-O]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And with. And as you.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. And not even necessarily. I mean, who knows? Maybe it was even suffering. I don't know.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Steve-O]

I don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that goes back to my question of the awareness.

[Steve-O]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Being okay.

[Steve-O]

And I was. I was deeply honored to have Neil Donald Walsh on my podcast and explain all of this to him directly. And he said that maybe this whole. This whole experience that my mom went through is. Was. Was her gift to me. I mean, like, it's kind of a stretch.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But it is true that the story is now being heard by new people and. And we're all. I don't know. You gotta roll.

[Steve-O]

I think. Yeah. Like, that's my lady creeping through. Sorry. I mean, she. She was already allowed through with. With calls, but. But texts. You. You.

[Pete Holmes]

I just showed you how to.

[Steve-O]

Yeah, they're there.

[Pete Holmes]

Not disturb.

[Steve-O]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You can add certain people to your do not disturb, but the problem is, I told. We're gonna get you out of here. My wife is always replying to text threads where I'm on it. So I'm getting. I think it's important. And it's just like, sounds good or something. I'm like, God damn it.

[Steve-O]

There's not too many group texts that I'm on with my. With my fiance.

[Pete Holmes]

They're all on mute. You know how to mute a group text? That's a good one. Mute them.

[Steve-O]

So that's the counter to my girl.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes, that's right. That's right. Although some of them I want. Anyway. This was great. Thank you.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. Thank you, man.

[Pete Holmes]

Do you feel good?

[Steve-O]

I do. I feel pretty comfortable right now.

[Pete Holmes]

Great.

[Steve-O]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because how you feel.

[Steve-O]

How dare you ask me that? Are you happy?

[Pete Holmes]

Are you happy?

[Steve-O]

How dare you.

[Pete Holmes]

I do want to ask the time you laughed the hardest in your life. Can you think of it?

[Steve-O]

I laughed the hardest in my life.

[Pete Holmes]

And that's it.

[Pete Holmes (Ad Reads)]

Then we're out.

[Steve-O]

First thing coming to mind, when my buddy Dave England, one of my jackass cast mates, was on my podcast and we told the story about. Or he told the story about how he smeared poo on the. It Was really, really funny.

[Pete Holmes]

Like a pooh smear.

[Steve-O]

It was a poo smear that start. That. And that instigated a little bit of a retaliation. He smeared and poo on the director of Jackass's hotel room door handle, and everybody was drinking. And then. So when the director came and went to go into his room, he had poo on his hand. None too pleased about it. Dave's poo. Yeah. The director was none too pleased about it until he went about finding out what room Dave England was in. She just knew.

[Pete Holmes]

I love an expression like none too pleased working its way into a poo smear story.

[Steve-O]

Right. So the director, you know, and back then, we used to share hotel rooms, so it was even easier. The. The director was let into Dave England's room by the other guy. The other guy. And he squatted over his. His suitcase, trying to poop in it, but he wasn't able to. And then he peed. He just. Just. They're being in his. In his suitcase.

[Pete Holmes]

Both of them?

[Steve-O]

No, no, no. Just the director peeing into Jeff Tremaine or the director, Jet Tremaine peeing into Dave's suitcase. When Dave got back, Dave was. Was. This was a bridge too far because. Because he had bought a stuffed animal for his daughter and very, very young, you know, baby daughter.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

And. And the. This stuffed animal had been peed on by Jeff Tremaine. And that was not okay. So Dave England. And then this all happened, I want to say, in. In Paris and, like, the next move was to go to Amsterdam. Dave England called the airlines and canceled everybody's flights, called the hotels, canceled their reservations, and booked himself a flight home. He just left. And then every. Like the entire.

[Pete Holmes]

That was the prank. No one goes.

[Steve-O]

The entire production was like, all of the flights were canceled, all the hotels were canceled, and Dave was. Went back home. And, like, I think what was so funny. Oh, my God. What was so funny about it was that if Dave applied that level of tenacity and ambition to his life, I mean, he's got it, you know, he's.

[Pete Holmes]

He's just using it for prank retaliation.

[Steve-O]

It's in there.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

And.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that is hilarious.

[Steve-O]

It's like when I met Motley Crue when I was a little kid. I was. You know, I. I knew that they were in my city because they had the concert. I called every single hotel in the yellow pages asking to be put through to a room under the name of their manager. Called for hours, finally got through. Then this guy answers the phone in the room and I said, is that Doc McGee? And he said, no, this is Doc's brother, Scott. Who's this? And. And I'm like, is it. Is Motley Crue there? And he said, how did you get this number? And I told him I called every hotel in the yellow pages. He said, that is awesome. He says, how'd you like backstage passes? He gave me ticks in the fifth row. I went with my dad. I got my picture taken with Tommy Lee and Nikki sixx.

[Pete Holmes]

What?

[Steve-O]

Yeah. October 25th of 1987.

[Pete Holmes]

He admired your stockiness.

[Steve-O]

Yeah, for sure. Whoa. Big time. He admired my stockiness. And, you know, it was the most empowering thing. Like, I was. I was literally 13, and I looked 11, and. And, you know, Tommy Lee and Nikki sick and. And ever after. My dad said, with every crappy report card, with everything, son, if you would just apply yourself the way that you. You know, the way that you applied yourself to meeting Motley Crue. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You know, cut to you on a ledge. I'm doing it, dad.

[Steve-O]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm doing it.

[Steve-O]

Right. But again, I can't do things that. That I'm not passionate about. Like, if I am passionate about it, there's no stopping me.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Steve-O]

No stopping me.

[Pete Holmes]

If you have the photos to prove it.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

What a great story. Thank you, Steve.

[Steve-O]

Yeah. Thank you.

[Pete Holmes]

Pete, Would you say keep it crispy? Try and say it in your least stevo voice. Try and talk from your vocal cords.

[Steve-O]

Keep it crispy. Very good. All right.

[Pete Holmes]

That was awesome, man.

[Steve-O]

Yeah, man.

[Interviewer/Moderator]

Thank you.