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- [00:00]
A
You made it weird. You made it weird. You made it with. Oh, yeah, you made it weird. You made it weird. Yes, you did. You made it weird. You made it weird with Pete Holmes.
- [00:15]
B
What's happening, weirdos? This is a very, very special episode. Steven Wright, a hero of mine, a hero of comedy, and just a delightful, wonderful, warm, smart, brilliant, genius comedian who I got the privilege of sitting down with. We talk about it in the episode, but I just was flying out of Boston, where we are both from, and I saw him at the airport and I walked up to him and that's not entirely like me, but I reminded him that we had done a show together and we started talking and laughing and we were on the same flight going to LA and talked a little bit more and I just took a shot. We were really vibing, so I was like, would you want to.
- [00:58]
A
You want to do my podcast?
- [01:01]
B
And here we are. But we talk about that. That's unlike in a way both of us, certainly for him, he said that's not normal for him, but something about it. We were vibing and enjoying each other and that's what you're about to hear is us again, vibing and enjoying. And I'm so glad that you're here. Such an interesting conversation, a little bit shorter than a normal episode for us, but so much is packed into it and I'm thrilled. You know, as somebody, my brother in law, Derek sent me how AI can like make podcasts now, which I think is very, very interesting. And they kind of mimic a classic style. Like there's one person who's kind of more colorful and there's one person who's kind of agreeing and a little more subdued and it was a phenomenon. I'm not taking anything away from that. But when I did this episode that you're about to hear, I was like, look, say what you want, but AI will never make an episode like this. There's something new happening. It's not a slick, it's not two LA guys doing an LA podcast and knowing what that sounds like and doing an impression of it. It's something new. It was a different flavor, it was a different rhythm and a different vibe. And I left just feeling really fed and full and happy. So I'm glad you're here to check it out. I don't think Stephen has anything to plug. I'm going to look up his website. Well, I think you can follow him on Twitter, formerly known as Twitter Stephen Wright S T E V E N for his tour dates and@stephenright.com. look, I'll just click on it right now. Who cares? Who even cares? Yeah. Oh, that's right. He has a new book out that is wonderful. He's a fiction writer called Harold and it is available now wherever or whomever you get your book. So check out Harold. He is an incredible writer, obviously of standup, but also fiction. So check out the Novel Harold, available stephenright.com or wherever you get your books. And if you'd like, I am touring currently. I saw Stephen is not touring currently. I think he's taking a little break. But I am going to be in Indianapolis this weekend. I think there's a few tickets left. December 11th I'll be here in Los Angeles at Largo. Always the highlight of my month. The last couple of shows have been amazing. Seattle on December 19th, Portland. I'm happy to say both shows are sold out. Thank you to everybody that's coming out to that. Same for Eugene, Oregon, but then Salt Lake City just announced in January. Then Phoenix, Arizona in February. Hope to see you at some of those guys. Go to Pete Holmes.com for tickets. Oh, I forgot to say we usually do the ads after some of the episode, but because this one is shorter, I'm going to do them up top here. This episode is brought to us by our friends at Hostage Tape. It has absolutely changed my life. Maybe you've seen it online. It's mouth tape because you should be doing nose breathing. Why? When I sleep, 20% more oxygen reduces the risk of sleep apnea. It really helps with snoring in my case, eliminating it entirely. It even helps with oral hygiene and bad breath. Last time I went to the dentist, they asked me, are you a nose breather or a mouth breather? They want you to be a nose breather, especially during those eight hours while you were asleep. So hostage tape. Mouth tape has made my sleep so much deeper. I thought it would make me feel claustrophobic or trapped. It is not that way at all. You put it over your mouth for some reason. Your brain just gets the message, the bridge is closed, take the tunnel. Or the tunnel is closed, take the bridge. If you like the bridge nose pun there immediately made my sleep so much better. So much deeper. How do I know? I feel fantastic in the morning and I dream so much more. And you only dream when you're in that good, good REM sleep Hostage tape. I tried it once and I'm hooked for life. Other brands by the way, for some reason I tried a different brand of hostage tape years ago. Smelled like chemicals. It didn't come off easily in the morning. They've dialed it in. It's high quality. It doesn't stink, it feels great and comes off easily in the morning. The official sleep aid of UFC for a reason. So you can get a six month supply for 99 bucks. That's saving $50 when you go to hostage tape.com weird this is the only place where you can get this deal. For the six month bundle of hostage tape, go to hostage tape.com weird and sleep better tonight. We're also brought to you. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. How are you guys staying cozy now that it's the winter? Some people watch love actually, some people watch the family stone. Some people sit by a fire with a cup of cocoa. Well, therapy is a great way to bring yourself some comfort that never goes away, even when the seasons change. And if you're like me, around the wintertime, around the holiday time can be a psychologically complicated time for me. That's when a lot of feelings kick up. And talk therapy is how I have coped and dealt and learned to manage and navigate those complicated feelings. So BetterHelp is a wonderful way to try therapy if you've been thinking of giving it a try. We talk about therapy on the show all the time. It's changed my life. Can help you through relationships, romantic relationships, relationships with family members, work give you that boost to help you know what you need, what you're lacking and what you need to do to get what you're after. So if you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible and suited to your schedule. All you do is fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist. You can even switch therapists at any time for no additional charge. So find comfort this December with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com weirdo today. They get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E L P. And in the meantime, enjoy my chat with the wonderful one of my heroes, Stephen Wright. Get into it. Stephen Wright. I'm really honored, I'm not just saying that to have you on the show. Can we say how this came about?
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A
Oh, yeah.
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B
Isn't that weird?
- [07:09]
A
Yes. It was only like two days ago, right?
- [07:12]
B
Dude, I did an event that night and I was like, I was in Boston this morning because I was like, why am I so tired? So it's like 6 o'clock in Ojai in California. I'm like, I'm so tired. I was like, oh, right, I was in Boston this morning. I was like, for hundreds of years, if you had said that, that's witchcraft. You're in California at 5:00 and you're like, I was in Boston this morning.
- [07:35]
A
Yeah.
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B
They would have killed you for that. That would have been a death offense. So it's very unnatural and very strange that I saw you two days ago in Boston.
- [07:45]
A
Yeah, it is. In fact, I was telling a friend of mine, just for amusement, I said, frank, you know what? I'm not gonna travel anymore. And why? It has nothing to do with that. I don't want to go to the next place. I don't want to go 500 miles an hour anymore. I don't think it's right somehow. It's. Even though it's safe and everything, it's like basically wrong. Going 500 miles an hour, you know, and saying, yes, can I have another Coke, please? Yeah, I'm not really saying that. That I'm not going to do that. But you just don't think of everything as accepted.
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B
No. I like to say we don't belong up there.
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A
Yeah.
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B
We're sitting in the sky like Greek gods and it's so calm. You know what I think is so funny? I almost said this to you before our flight. So we ran into each other at the airport, and I was gonna tell you this bit before we got on the plane, but I didn't want to, like, put it in our minds. But I was like, it's so funny when there's a little turbulence. We're so put out like that. Our flight was a little bumpy and I was, like, aghast. I was like, can't they find smooth air? Given what they're doing? The whole flight should be like. You know what I mean? It's insane that it's smooth and we expect it to be smooth. We want to sleep, we want to be fed, we want to be entertained. We don't want to even think about the miracle that's happening. And if there's a little bump, I'm a little annoyed. I'm like, what's up with this pilot?
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A
I'm not annoyed by the bumps. I just think. I just think it's going to. As long as it just stays as bumps.
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B
Yeah, of course.
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A
You know, right?
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B
You said it took you a while to get used to it.
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A
Yeah, many years. Because every little thing was like, in my mind, it was the beginning of a disaster.
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C
Yeah.
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A
But, like, a friend of mine years ago told me she was in Central Park. And there was a guy walking with his little boy. The boy was about 4. And the boy pointed up to the sky. There was a plane way, way up in it. So the plane's like this big. And the boy said, I'm not going up there. And she told me this. Yeah, I know why she told me. Because I was like, that is the real logic.
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C
He's right.
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A
He was. He didn't have enough intellect to. Or information to know how it happens or anything. That's the basic human.
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C
Yeah.
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A
Gut we don't get.
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B
Yeah, you're absolutely right. If I woke you up in the middle of the night, like, if you were as naked as you could be in your mind, you'd be like, of course I'm not going in the sky. It takes no thinking to realize that that's wrong.
- [10:28]
A
Yeah. And when he sees it, when you're on the plane, you see it different, of course, because you're in the plane. But his perspective of it being that big. If you thought of his view of it while you were on the plane, you'd be freaking out, of course, because you're a dot.
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C
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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B
It's very strange. But you know how I. What this sounds kind of like. I don't want to flatter myself and say it sounds like something you would think, but I had a bet where I was like, people say they're afraid of flying. We're all flying. The planet is flying. It's not tethered to anything. It's flying. It's unsettling, isn't it? It's one of those ones. I knew it. When I said it to you, I was like, that's an unsettling thought. And we go, gravity, you know, or, you know, orbit. All these words that we don't really understand.
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A
Well, it's good that the planet is in a loop.
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C
Yeah.
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A
Because I wrote this book. I wrote a book called Harold. It was about a little boy in third grade and what he thinks about in one day in third grade. And he can't. A third grader wouldn't really be thinking this, but he did point out that if it wasn't. If the planet. Just because it's like in a cul de sac, you know, but if it got out of that thing and just went straight, I mean.
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C
Yeah.
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B
That's a whole other thing I've never thought about that.
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A
We're lucky that it's in this.
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C
Yeah.
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A
I mean, it's. It's like a merry go round. Like a huge. It's very. Imagine we know where we're going. We know, we know the sun up in the year thing every day. Like. Yeah. If it was just all of a sudden broke out.
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C
Yeah.
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A
Imagine it. Just the screams.
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B
You're absolutely right.
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A
No day, no night. It's either all day, all. I don't know what it would be, but it wouldn't be. This is like a pacifier. We should be grateful that it's caught in this loop.
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B
No, if it wasn't in a loop, that would be a true nightmare. And that's why ancient people really seemed very interested in tracking the stars. You and I, modern humans don't track the stars. But until we knew where's this thing going that was the main human interest is like, are we going into the sun? Like we need to find out. That's why Galileo is way more famous than you or I will ever be. Because we needed Galileo. Now we live in a Galileo assumed society. We took his findings and now we're mad. There's a line at Starbucks. Right. We're living on the backs of Galileo. But it's absolutely true. But it makes you a little light in the belly to even think. Is that something you don't like to think about? I'm kind of like that. I don't like really thinking about how we're in outer space. It's unsettling.
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A
I don't. My version of it that I don't like thinking about it is how it can go forever. The infinity. And that's disturbing to me. And how a baby can just grow on its own. A human being like is the most complicated machine ever. But in it ever on the earth. A human being. And it grows on its own by itself.
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B
Right?
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C
Right.
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A
That's. I mean imagine a seven for watering. A 747. You know. You know this is a 747.
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B
Like you grew one in the garden.
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A
You put water on it every day.
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C
Right.
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A
And then this is so.
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B
And it's so much more complicated than a 747.
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A
It's.
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B
It's wild.
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A
It is. But I think our minds will never know. We just won't know. Like a, like a kid, like a camera. When the camera was film or even digital. A three year old doesn't know that how the thing. He knows he points the thing and then there's a picture. But 3 year old doesn't know how the light going in the lens and all that. Yeah, but the kid is like 12. You could explain that to him and then his mind would comprehend. So from. From three to 12, nine years, the brain develops enough for him to understand how the camera works. I think as far as the universe, we're like that three year old. We are as far as the universe operating. We're like, we're frozen. Even if 30 million years go by, I don't think the brain will develop enough to go, oh, yes, now I understand how infinity. I know what infinity is. Now we're just stuck.
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B
It can't be housed. The image I like is a light bulb. And if you fed too much light to the bulb, it would just explode. And if you tried to cram infinity into the four walls of the brain, it would just explode. It's overwhelming. It's way too much. It's weird that you mentioned that, because I was just thinking about that. I had Penn Jillette on this podcast and we were talking about consciousness.
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A
Oh, I love him.
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B
I love him too. And he was like, if I had a theory of consciousness, I wouldn't debut it on your podcast. And I thought that was really funny, but I was like, I don't. Well, I don't want to have hubris, but I'm sort of like, well, we're getting right into the philosophy right away. The question for me is when does the flashlight of awareness point at itself? And is it possible for a knife to cut itself or a light to shine on itself? That's sort of the conundrum. Like the basic phenomenon of experience is that your experience is known. Right?
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A
I don't know what you talk about.
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B
We're conscious.
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A
I mean, what you're saying is a knife gonna cut itself.
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B
Well, let me get to that. So if you think of yourself as a flashlight, you're pointing your awareness at me right now. So you see me and you hear me. But the question of consciousness, which is also, I think, linked to infinity, is how do you. How do you investigate that which knows? So how do you know? How does the sun shine on itself? Does that make sense? Or the flashlight, let's say with the flashlight. How does a flashlight. You're pointing it at me. How does it turn around and look at what knows your experience? That's why it's sort of like a paradox or a riddle that can't be known.
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A
But why would it turn around?
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B
We want to know the nature of consciousness. We want to understand consciousness.
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A
Man, you are way more in.
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B
You're like, I thought we were having the same conversation.
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A
We were in the beginning.
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B
Well, that's how I comfort myself with infinity is your awareness also is boundaryless. You know what I mean? It's not like space is the only infinite thing. I can't found a boundary where I end, where my knowing ends. There's no wall that I run into on the other side. I am not. So space is sort of like my nature.
- [17:18]
A
Space is my nature. Well, I mean, the brain, I think your mind is endless of what can go in, it can go in, but you don't know what to do with all the information. But that's infinite. The amount of just thinking one day, all the shit that you put in your head while watching all this hearing, it's like. It's deep as the ocean.
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C
It is.
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A
Then it's. But the processing part of what. What are you doing with all this? Yeah, that's not up to the amount.
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C
Yeah, yeah.
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A
The amount is end. It's endless. You're never gonna get, like, full full.
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B
That's kind of a fun pivot. There is like. Does writing jokes help you make sense of the world? Like, frame it a little bit? Because you're talking about all that information, and your jokes are so distilled. You're like a restaurant where it's like a little plate. You know what I mean? And somehow it tastes like all of Thanksgiving. Does that help? Is that kind of like a refining process for you?
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A
I mean, the jokes are the jokes. I don't think it's helping deal with the world. No, really. I mean, it's from noticing. I think all art, music, books, film, it's from noticing. You're just noticing things, and then you're pointing out what you notice. Yeah, that's all of it, I think.
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B
But there is. There seems like a clue to your inner reality, which. The reduction of it. There's so much. And you're like, I wonder if I can say something in one. And that seems to be pleasant. Maybe it's not meaning making, but it's elegant. Is that pleasing to you?
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A
Yes. It's just how it happened. Like, I just learned. Write a joke with, like, Woody Allen had a double comedy album, and he had stories, but within the stories, he had jokes. And that's how I became aware of a joke, a structure of a joke.
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C
Yeah.
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A
And then it was like, okay. And then it was like, sorry, Stephen.
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B
Can I pause you? Do you remember the joke that did it for you?
- [19:22]
A
Oh, he had one where he said was telling a story, and then in the story he said, then the woman became a streetwalker in Venice and she drowned.
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B
It's fantastic.
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A
It is. He's the best. He's my hero of comedy.
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C
Yeah.
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A
Him and George Carlin, but Woody Allen stand up in movies and everything can I agree.
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B
I just watched anything else which I hadn't seen. Have you seen that?
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A
Woody Allen, Luthor?
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B
Yeah. Slip by me as well. It's Jason Biggs, the kid from American Pieces. Thought it was very good. I wrote after I watched that movie, sometimes I'll absorb someone's voice and I'll start writing as them. And I again, I don't want to flatter myself, but I wrote this Woody Allen joke. See if you can fix it, because it's not perfect. I go, I. I had an out of body experience which felt like a ripoff because I was getting a massage.
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A
That's good, right? Yes.
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B
It kind of touches on his thrifty thing.
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A
He's the best. Yeah, that's good. That's just like one of his jokes.
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B
Well, I appreciate that.
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A
Well, when does that movie come out that you just said?
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B
Early 2000s. I think it's Christina Ricci as well.
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A
It's really good.
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B
It was marketed strangely. I heard Tarantino talking about it being one of his favorite movies of the first 10 years of the 2000s. I was like, I haven't even heard of it. You did a voice in a Tarantino movie?
- [20:47]
A
Yeah. In Reservoir Dogs. Yeah.
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B
That was great. Did you get to work with him at all?
- [20:52]
A
Well, he was in there when we were recording the thing.
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B
Okay. Was that fun?
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A
Yeah. He's very passionate, like very excited about what he was doing. I was happy, lucky to be in there.
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C
Yeah.
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A
The editor knew me and suggested me and Sally Menke was the editor and she suggested me to be the voice.
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B
Wow.
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A
So she said, you know, nobody knows this guy, this is his first movie. But this is gonna be. This person is something else. This is a whole other thing.
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B
That's what she said about Tarantino.
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A
Yeah.
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C
Yeah.
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A
Cuz she was editing that first movie.
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C
Yeah.
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A
And I completely just trusted her. All right, if you feel that way. Okay, fine.
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B
So, cuz that's young Tarantino. I mean you were, you were with a peak young. I mean, he's an adrenalized person anyway. But it seems like you got the real young and hungry Tarantino.
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A
He must have been bouncing, like just excited. Very passionate what he was doing.
- [21:53]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [21:54]
B
Well, going back to Woody Allen, we were talking about how you learned to write those jokes, which is, by the way, can I just kind of fluff it a little bit? Very interesting to me because I'm friends with like Demetri Martin and I saw Mitch Hedberg and those guys would all cite You. But I had never even thought of who you would cite as your reference.
- [22:11]
A
I cite Woody Allen and George Carlin. Early George Carlin, when he was talking about everyday little, tiny things that nobody notices. So my main influence was. Because that's all of my act is. Tiny things. I don't. I do something different than George Carlin with the way I talk about it. But that was everyday stuff. Okay, I'm gonna talk about everyday stuff. Little things. I never talked about politics or movie stars or McDonald's or. It was like I had all these rules in my head of not only what to talk about, but what not to talk about. But the thing about the jokes being so small. I mean, everyone. I was very introverted. I didn't want to be on stage. People don't want to be talk in front of people. Public speaking, as you know, is a horrible. It's a horrible fear that people have. And I had it too. And I. But I had this conflict where I wanted to do this thing, so I forced myself. But as far as the joke being short, then the audience would laugh. Let's just talk about stuff that work. You figure out what works. They're laughing in, you know, every 10 seconds, which makes it easier to be standing there. You're not standing there for a minute with a setup.
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C
Yeah.
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A
So that was comforting for me. I didn't know that till years later when I looked back on what I was doing. If they were lacking all the time, it was easier to be standing there.
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B
Right.
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A
That the. The public speaking was. Was easier to deal with because they were. Because they were laughing.
- [23:54]
B
Yes. Yes. Well, you prove yourself very quickly. You get that laugh very fast. As opposed to, you know, sweating and meandering. You're like, I'm going to sharpen this to embolden myself to even do it. Right.
- [24:08]
A
Say that again. I did say it.
- [24:10]
B
Kind of weird. You were, like, sharp. I'm looking at your jokes like little bullets. And you're, like, sharpening them so you could really just get them out fast because you didn't want to be up there. So you're like, let's get to this.
- [24:22]
A
Didn't want to be standing there with them just looking at you, waiting. It's easier when they were laughing. And then it was, like, automatic. How can you get the point across with the fewest amount of words? The fewest amount of words means also they'll get to the laugh quicker. No waste. No wasted words. And when I would think of something, even now, if I think of something, the wording is like, within 30 seconds, it's like. Because it can only be in my mind. It can only be this one way. There's no versions. And I'll pick that version. It's almost like. I mean, it's like autumn. It's simple. Very simple.
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C
Yeah.
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B
And it wants. Would you say it's almost like the joke wants to be a certain way and you can tell when it's wrong.
- [25:16]
A
It's not that the joke wants. It's like it has to flow like this. Yeah, I don't.
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C
Yeah, yeah.
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A
I think the joke knows anything.
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B
No, of course. It's your feeling.
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A
Yeah, the feeling. It's like a rhythm.
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B
Yeah.
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A
It's like a musical thing. It's like sometimes you put another word in. This is a contradiction, what I just said. But you might put a word in to make the timing go a little bit more. You know, that word is unnecessary.
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C
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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A
But this is all. This is not like this. I'm not thinking of this. Not. It's only like when I talk to other comedians or talking about it.
- [25:56]
C
Yeah.
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A
I'm not thinking. Well, this has to be like. It's just gut. It's gut.
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B
Of course. You're making me think of the time I. I like to pepper one liners in my. And they're like two liners. If we're being honest into my act. And you're making me think of what it feels like to kind of like a haiku trim it or a bonsai tree. Trim it and get it. Like, I had one where I haven't thought of this joke in over 10 years ago. I bought a paper shredder. It came with a manual. So that was the first to go. Yeah, it's simple.
- [26:24]
A
Yes.
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B
But I bought a paper shredder. It came with a manual. I thought it was funny that it came with a manual. That's ruining it. It's like pulling the bow back. It's too goofy.
- [26:33]
A
You mean you had. You thought it was funny? It came with a manual. Then you took that out.
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B
I took that out. Like, why are you talking about it?
- [26:40]
A
That's delaying the whole.
- [26:42]
B
Get to it, get to it. My favorite. Sorry to talk about my own, but I do want to talk about yours. If you have favorites that come to mind, they go, this is one of the first jokes in my first five years of stand up that I got that sensation that you're talking about where I was like, they'll have to like this. You know what I mean? Like, they'll have to.
- [27:01]
A
Now wait a minute.
- [27:02]
B
Of Course it'll come up.
- [27:03]
A
I don't never know they'll which ones they'll like.
- [27:06]
B
No, I didn't either. But I was like. Once it started becoming reliable, I got emboldened. Not when I wrote it, after I tried it, but it was. What do you think the employee discount is at the dollar store? Do you think it's just take it. What a dream come true. To get you to laugh. What have you hated it after I talked about how it was bulletproof but hilarious? I'll tell you a secret. For years, to make sure my hair would look good. If I had like a premiere or a movie or whatever, something fancy, I just wouldn't wash it. That was my secret. And then one day, Kat, my hair stylist, was cutting my hair and she said, putting a comb through your hair is like putting it through wet cement. It's disgusting and it's not clean and it's gross, so you need to wash it. But the problem was when you use shampoo, it looks like a bale of hay. Looks horrible. It's fluffy, it's puffy. Then you have to put all these products in. It looks like crap and I hate it. Then I found modern mammals. It's a literal game changer. It's a non shampoo shampoo. It's called magic mud. You run it through your hair, it feels just like shampoo. You rinse it out and then it looks perfect. That's really true. It looks perfect. It gives you that flow. It's almost as if you already have a little bit of product in it. Why? Because it leaves just enough natural oils in your hair so it is manageable and looks perfect every time. Six seconds to perfect hair. No more poof, no more wild, out of control. And you get that flow, you get that natural thing that you're looking for where it looks like you didn't wash it, but it's clean now. Cat's happy. I look good. I'm happy. I'm never going back. Over 40,000 guys have switched to modern mammals instead of traditional shampoo and they lose their minds. There are so many five star reviews. Once you try it, you will be hooked for life. I certainly am. Six seconds to perfect hair. And you can try the bar, which is a great way to travel. It's PH balanced and there's no plastic. And the bottle, which is more of a traditional magic mud goo, you know, like a shampoo goo, a sham goo. Go to try both for 44 bucks. Go to modern mammals.com weird and get the combo Deal where you try both kinds of modern mammals for 44 bucks. It lasts a really, really long time too. Modern mammals Dot com. Weird. Or give it as a gift this holiday season to any person, you know, with hair. That's a pretty wide demo. Also, speaking of great gifts, I was given a Sha. A Shakti mat. I say Shakti, a Shakti mat for Christmas one year and I absolutely love it. And I'm actually kind of a tricky person to get gifts for for. So if you're looking for a great gift idea this holiday season, the Shakti mat is an incredible one. It makes the person feel unique and seen and who doesn't like to relax and feel good in their back and their body and their muscles and relieve that tension in a cool and interesting way. Because what is a Shakti mat? It's basically a bed of nails. I didn't misspeak. It's like a bed of nails. It is little pokey pokes on a mat. It's incredibly high quality. You lay down on it and it's like a massage on demand, like cold exposure therapy. It is a little weird at first, it's a little shocking, but then you melt into it. It improves circulation and it relieves tension in muscles. So yeah, I like massage. I'm still going to get massage. But massage is tricky, man. It's expensive. You got to carve out all this time, then you covered in oil, now you got a shower. A Shakti mat. If I'm noticing tension in my shoulders, in my triceps, in my lower back and I want to feel relief in 5 minutes, 10 minutes, lay on it. I whip my shirt off, I lay on it. Sometimes I stand on it, which is incredible. On your feet, there's all that, all those acupressure points. Feels fantastic. The stress melts away and it's there. It's easy, it's clean, it's fast. It's like deep tissue work right there on demand. I've tried other kinds of mats. There's no comparison. Shakti is the sharpest on the market and the only ones that work for me. Handmade in India by people paid fairly and with the highest quality materials, I can vouch for that. Deeper sleep, stress relief, muscle relaxation, better circulation, mental clarity and just a general sense of well being whenever you need it. Shakti mats are my secret weapon. For reliable serenity and relief, go to Shakti matt s h a k t I m a t dot com and use promo code weird30 and you will get 30% off the mat. If that doesn't sound like your cup of tea. I guarantee someone in your life will love it. They'll laugh, they'll try it, they'll thank you. Go to shakdematt.com, use promo code weird30. All right, back to the show. That musicality. Right. What do you think the employee discount is? And there's a real. It's like a rest on the music. It's like there's a rest at the dollar store. They think it's over. Do you think it's. Just take it. The music of that. Right. Am I. Are we speaking the same language?
- [32:08]
A
Yeah, the rhythm of it.
- [32:09]
B
The rhythm feels good to say. And I like the part where they probably think it's over.
- [32:15]
A
I didn't think it was over.
- [32:17]
B
Oh, you didn't? Well, you're a genius.
- [32:19]
A
No, I didn't think it over, but I was wondering, well, what is he gonna do? A dollar is a dollar, so it's gonna be less than. Than a dollar. He's got to, like, come up with some.
- [32:29]
C
Yeah.
- [32:30]
A
Percentage of the dollar. That's what I thought you were going to do. And then when you said just take it, you. You went completely. The percentage of just take. Oh, my God. That's the. That's the most extreme discount.
- [32:44]
C
Yeah.
- [32:44]
A
And I didn't see it coming. And that's.
- [32:46]
B
And the implication being that everything there sucks anyway, so that the owners would be like, just take it. Who cares? You know? So there's kind of like a.
- [32:53]
A
Making fun everything.
- [32:57]
B
I think a lot about comedy. Maybe I'm thinking too much about comedy.
- [33:00]
A
No, I'm talking about the doll store.
- [33:02]
B
Oh, I see.
- [33:02]
A
I don't know if everything sucks. I mean, I'm not defending here. I am now what am I defending? The Dollar store. You said you want to go on the podcast. It can't all suck.
- [33:16]
B
So surely something at the Dollar store is of quality.
- [33:19]
A
Yeah.
- [33:20]
C
Yeah.
- [33:22]
B
Do you remember the first one you wrote where you were like. Or the first joke that after you told it, you were like, oh, that's reliable. That's my.
- [33:30]
A
They never. I never knew which ones. Still don't know which one they will laugh at.
- [33:35]
B
Really?
- [33:36]
A
Even from the beginning, I never thought, this will definitely work. I learned early on that I. My opinion has. Is meaningless.
- [33:46]
C
Yeah.
- [33:46]
A
Of what it's going to be because you can't tell. You can't tell. For me, one in three or one in four that I write will get a big enough left to stay in. And to this day, I can't say, oh, this can't yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [34:05]
B
Well, you've been doing it too long. You know, we're always wrong. Can you think of one? Not always.
- [34:10]
A
What do you mean we're wrong?
- [34:11]
B
What do you say? We can fool ourselves. There have been many times where I go on stage and I'm like, wait till they get a load of this one. And it.
- [34:17]
A
Oh, see, I've never had that. Yeah, I've never had, had, Wait till they hear this. I, I.
- [34:25]
B
You'Re just helping me realize how insane it is that I do that. I'm like, oh, I'm like a super villain. Wait till they hear this one.
- [34:33]
A
But your experience is a whole other thing. Yours is that, that's how you are experiencing the whole thing. That's not your experience was. I don't know. And I hope they laugh at this. I hope they laugh at this. I, I just hope.
- [34:51]
C
Yeah.
- [34:52]
A
All of you, like, yes. Never. Not once. Why is that funny to you?
- [34:59]
B
I just talked to way more comedians that are like, I'm going to like, I think of a karate guy kicking a board. That's how they think of their jokes.
- [35:07]
A
And before the new ones, you mean? Maybe I'm talking new.
- [35:11]
B
Yeah, yeah, me too.
- [35:12]
A
I'm not talking when they are new.
- [35:13]
B
But they have that confidence. A lot of, a lot of kids seem to have it. I don't know.
- [35:18]
A
That's cool.
- [35:19]
B
I know what you're saying too. What? Anything come to mind is a joke that you were like, you tried it and tried it and tried it and it just never made them laugh the way it tickled you.
- [35:30]
A
Yes. I had one in there for a long time that didn't. Oh, shit. Now I'm not gonna remember what it is. But I kept it in anyway. Even though logically it should have been removed. If the jokes are like a baseball team, this guy, this guy, this joke was batting like 85 and he couldn't, you know my. I have a three time rule. If it doesn't work three times, I throw it away. If it works three times, then I think I can count on it.
- [36:01]
C
Yeah.
- [36:02]
A
Even if it works once, you don't know. Really. It might have been a fluke.
- [36:06]
C
Yeah.
- [36:06]
A
But I've had some in there that I left in way past three times.
- [36:12]
C
Yeah.
- [36:12]
A
Just for, no, just for my own. I don't even know. Just because I liked it. But I didn't love it. I didn't even love it. I just left it in.
- [36:21]
C
Yeah.
- [36:22]
A
I guess for my own amusement.
- [36:24]
C
Yeah.
- [36:26]
A
I wish I could tell you what it is. I can't remember.
- [36:28]
B
No, don't worry about that. I feel very strongly about this. I feel like there's some jokes that won't work at, like, a random show, but might really work at your special taping or someplace where they really know you and really understand you. And, like, I'm very careful to not cut a joke. I've had that happen where, like, you do it in the club. I'm in Cincinnati. It just doesn't work. But then I do it when I'm taping my special. And now with the way the Internet is, it'll get picked up. And now it's getting passed around to hundreds of thousands of people that like that kind of thing. But it's hard to get all of those people into one club on one night.
- [37:04]
A
You mean you'll do it in Cincinnati or some club and it won't work Many times.
- [37:09]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [37:10]
A
And then you. But you still like it enough that I'm gonna do it during a. I know.
- [37:15]
B
I know what the joke is.
- [37:16]
A
But during a taping, you're gonna say, I'm gonna put. That's fascinating.
- [37:20]
B
And then it becomes, like, an iconic. I don't want to say iconic, but it becomes a joke that people really love because it's so precious and fragile. They feel special that they get it. Maybe. I don't know. That's interpreting too much. The joke was this. I want to tell you because I think you'll think it's stupid.
- [37:38]
A
Wait a minute. Why do you want to tell me if you think I think I'm stupid?
- [37:41]
B
Because it'll illustrate my point. You'll see when I say it. You'll see why it won't work in Cincinnati. And it's not Cincinnati's fault. I go, it's an attitude joke. I have to yell it. I'm not going to yell it now, but I go, unicorn. Unicorn. It has one horn. How about uni horn? It has no corn. That was the joke. I would just yell this. A lot of it. The point of it was that I'm getting really worked up. People now, I like that they like. I think I might have fucked it up. I might have gone, unicorn. Unicorn. How about uni horn? It has no corn.
- [38:21]
A
Yes.
- [38:22]
B
Right. Is there a single kernel of corn hidden in its yellow mane? Is that part of the mythology? This was a joke. Died a dirty death a million times. And even as I say it now, I'm like, it's not bulletproof. I did it on the special that became a joke that people felt like in the club. If they liked that joke, they like. They request it. They want to hear it. They like Unicorn. Isn't that weird?
- [38:41]
A
Fascinating.
- [38:42]
B
Yeah, but it's not reliable. So I guess this is my question to you.
- [38:46]
A
What do you mean it doesn't work all the time? Yeah, that's exactly after the Spirit Special.
- [38:50]
C
Yeah.
- [38:50]
B
Well, I retired it after the special. But I. I still think even if I did it as an encore at some show, it still might not work. It's not a bulletproof joke. So that's my question to you is, is there a risk of cutting a joke that maybe could have had a life elsewhere just because it didn't work three times? Do you ever worry about that?
- [39:11]
A
No, but ones that barely pass the test, that, like, get, like, a 3 on a scale of 1 to 10 or 3 or 4. But maybe they were borderline being thrown out, like. But I didn't throw them out. Sometimes they can. They can grow more somehow.
- [39:30]
C
Yeah.
- [39:30]
A
Maybe you're used to saying it. Or somehow they can become a better batter.
- [39:36]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [39:38]
B
If you bench them for a while.
- [39:40]
A
No, you leave them in. Leave them in. Leave them in. Leave them. And then it can grow. I don't know why that is. It has to. Must have to do with how you're saying it.
- [39:48]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [39:50]
B
Have you ever brought one back from retirement?
- [39:52]
A
You're like, I'm.
- [39:53]
B
I think. I think they're ready. I think they're ready now.
- [39:56]
A
Well, not one. You mean one that didn't work?
- [39:58]
C
Yeah.
- [39:58]
A
Yeah.
- [39:59]
B
Give it another try. It's interesting. This. This might be my issue. I always. Sometimes. Well, not always, but I sometimes will be. Like, it was the night. It was. It was what was going on in politics. It was too close to the holidays or.
- [40:15]
A
That's why one night is not a good test.
- [40:18]
C
Yeah.
- [40:18]
A
That's why, for me, it's three.
- [40:20]
C
Yeah.
- [40:20]
A
Because it could have worked a fluke that night, and then. Then the next. Then it never works ever again.
- [40:26]
C
Yeah.
- [40:28]
B
Do you remember then, the first joke that you wrote where you were like. A joke that you love that you were like, this is so reliable. It's so me. You feel like you found your voice.
- [40:36]
A
See, we're having the same pattern here.
- [40:38]
C
Yeah.
- [40:39]
A
I like them all, otherwise I wouldn't write them down.
- [40:46]
C
Right.
- [40:46]
A
If I write them down because I like them, but there's never one that I'm like, this is definitely gonna work.
- [40:55]
B
Really?
- [40:55]
A
Never, Never, never. Because I don't trust. I can't. Because I've had an experience of. I mean, it was I don't even. I barely remember when I thought, this is gonna work, if I ever thought this is gonna work. That concept was gone in the first few months because you can't predict. So if I think of something and I write it down, I like it. That's why I wrote it down. And if I say it and they don't laugh three nights and I throw it away, I still think it's funny. I don't think I was wrong. They don't agree with me, and they're in charge. They're the editors. They're editing the show. They're the editors. Yeah, but I don't think. Oh, what was I crazy? That's not funny. I still think it's funny.
- [41:43]
C
Right.
- [41:44]
A
They didn't agree with me.
- [41:45]
B
But when it comes to building an hour or doing a set, like, you have to go, okay, I want to open strong. So you're going to pick one that you like more or maybe is more.
- [41:57]
A
These. They all. By the time you're doing special or something or a concert, you know that it all works.
- [42:06]
B
Right. But there wasn't one that you were like a particular.
- [42:09]
A
This has to be the opening.
- [42:11]
B
No, no, no. I guess what I'm looking for. I guess maybe this is not true, but when you have these jokes, like baseball players, I'm wondering if there was ever a joke that you were particularly fond of. The crowd liked it and you liked it, and he kind of couldn't wait to tell it. That's. That's all I'm wondering. Like a little favorite.
- [42:31]
A
Maybe a slight. I can't. Not really. I can't wait. Like, I hope it would be good if this worked. Not like I. I'm so excited about this one. No.
- [42:46]
B
Interesting.
- [42:47]
A
Yeah, it is interesting. This discussion is very interesting. The different perspectives. It's like my version is. I have no idea. And I am just hoping.
- [42:57]
C
Yeah.
- [42:58]
B
Even after all these years.
- [42:59]
A
Yeah. I still can't predict, because when I.
- [43:01]
B
Saw you, we did the show together at the Garden, at the Boston Garden, and you murdered. I went up with particular interest because it was a show. You remember Mulaney, Bobby Kelly, like, guys up there slinging it, slinging it, telling stories. Bobby did tell a story that was like. It wasn't a shit your pants story, but it might as well have been. And then you went up and you do what you do, and it killed. I think you had the set of the night.
- [43:31]
A
Thanks.
- [43:32]
B
I mean, you had to. I guess maybe more interestingly is you're doing it with. Don't let me Put words in your mouth. But it seems like there's a humility and a honoring of it. Like the audience has their say. It's not about your ego. It's not about you feeling good. Special scene. I feel like you don't get off stage and go like, I killed. They really saw me. You know what I mean? And that is. That's the difference. I get off stage, I go. I feel seen. Like that's the difference in our generations maybe, or just our temperaments. I'm not sure.
- [44:07]
A
I don't think it's a generation. I think it's just different people.
- [44:11]
C
Yeah.
- [44:12]
A
Like, that's very interesting. I see this. I see like an 80 minute show. It's like you running across a lake of thin ice. And as you're going, it takes 80 minutes to run to the other side. And it's breaking behind you. Yeah, you break and you're hoping you don't fall in. Like. And then, you know, sometimes you hit a thing and you fall and you gotta get up. But forget that part. It's just like breaking behind you till the other side. I see it as like a tightrope walk. Like, just. It's because the jokes are so short and it's like they're gonna have to laugh. Even when you know all everything works, it's still like, well, how is it gonna work? Which version of it is gonna work? You know, I. I'm just trying. I. I'm not like, it's fascinating. I'm just trying to get to the other end without having a catastrophe.
- [45:15]
C
Yeah.
- [45:16]
A
Yeah, you are. You know, I'm not, I'm not going like, I'm gonna kill them.
- [45:21]
C
Yes.
- [45:22]
A
I'm trying to survive. I'm running through a minefield and I want to get. Get to the other side.
- [45:28]
C
Really funny.
- [45:30]
B
Yes, that's really funny.
- [45:32]
A
I'm looking for dangerous to me.
- [45:34]
C
Yeah.
- [45:34]
B
So it sounds like it's not entirely pleasant.
- [45:38]
A
It's. No, it's a. It's. It's a. No, it isn't entirely pleasant. There is a lot of pleasant. The rush of it. I mean, there's nothing like being on stage. There's nothing when you. You're either on there or you're not. There's nothing that makes you. Reminds you of it.
- [45:54]
C
Yeah.
- [45:54]
A
To me, it's nothing. It feels. Oh, this is like.
- [45:57]
B
It's so right.
- [45:59]
A
It is no other place like it. Glass. When they're huge and the audience is loving, that's. That's very thrilling and very exciting.
- [46:08]
C
Yeah.
- [46:09]
A
But it can go wrong. So easily. It's like. To me, it's like in the movies, if they were flying a plane through you, talking about planes and through turbulence, like the flak when they're shooting at you from the ground and the plane. Yeah. Because the set goes up and down, up, you know, like this. And then it's fascinating, the difference of how you have much more. See it differently and much more enjoyable. I'm not saying I don't. I love it.
- [46:46]
C
Yeah.
- [46:46]
A
But there's danger in it. You seem like it's more of a fun thing for you. I'm happy for you. Maybe.
- [46:52]
B
Maybe. But it's also way. I wonder if it's more painful. I'd like to hook us both up to EKGs or something.
- [46:58]
A
Like right now.
- [46:59]
B
No, no. I wish I had that. When I bomb, I feel. I feel rejected. Like, if you're a comedian like me, and I'm really trying to, like, connect. I'm trying to, like, groove and merge us all together and have us looking at the world exactly the same and, like, understanding each other. Not just them to me, but me to them. If that doesn't happen, it can be very painful. When you bomb, do you feel existential dread or are you just like. Well, I guess they didn't think I was funny.
- [47:30]
A
I just think they didn't like those jokes. I don't even. I feel bad that they didn't like them, but I don't feel, like, negative about me as a person. Yeah, yeah. It was about the joke I created.
- [47:43]
B
See, that's the cost. You're looking at it very clean and honest. I admire what you're doing. I'm out there getting sloppy and letting my heart get in the mix. When you're doing that, you're. You're showing your neck, they can hurt you more. And I really admire that. You're like, well, let me ask you. Do you look at it almost like a service? Like you're doing a service for them? Like.
- [48:05]
A
No, no.
- [48:07]
B
I mean, like, let me help you laugh. Let me entertain you. How do you look at it?
- [48:12]
A
I'm. I'm trying to write things that they. They. I hope they laugh at, but it's not like. Because I'm. The fact that laughing is a powerful thing and makes. Relieves tension in people's lives and everything, that's a secondary result of it. I'm just trying to write something that they laugh at.
- [48:39]
C
Yeah.
- [48:40]
A
The fact that that's all. That's it.
- [48:43]
B
Because that's the job. Because that's what they asked you to Job.
- [48:46]
A
It's like, that's what this thing is. This thing of being my version of being a comedian. The fact that they get so much joy out of it is almost like that's after the. It sounds kind of cold, actually.
- [49:05]
B
No, it doesn't.
- [49:06]
A
I'm just trying to. It's so simple, really. It's so make. Just trying to make them laugh.
- [49:14]
C
Yeah.
- [49:15]
B
And if that.
- [49:16]
A
But if I Saying if they don't. If it doesn't go. A lot of jokes, new jokes don't work, I don't feel bad about myself. I just feel disappointed that they didn't work. And when a show goes great, I do feel. I feel good about it. Like, I, like, ran across the lake and I got to the other side and wow, that went. And it's over now. It's over.
- [49:42]
C
Yeah, I know.
- [49:43]
A
You mean people, like, guys who. When you. Like when you do a show, like, with this, you're supposed to do like 10 minutes, say this, 10 guys. For some, like the thing we were on.
- [49:56]
C
Yeah.
- [49:56]
A
Or any show where comedians gonna do 10 minutes, and some guys, they go, 11, 12, 15 minutes. I have always been like, let me just get to the tent. As soon as I hit it, I'm gone. I'm gone.
- [50:12]
B
You've never burned the light.
- [50:14]
A
You go, because I survived. I survived. I'm not going to say, hey, let me walk through that minefield. Sarge, Sarge, we're over here. Let me walk through there.
- [50:25]
B
That must be why it feels so good, though. That's your flow state. I just had an interesting conversation about the flow state and the flow state. No, it's just what they mean when you're in the zone. When you're in, like. And certainly when we're doing standup, you're in a zone and you're not thinking about your life. You're not thinking about your problems. You're focused. So what you're doing has to be really difficult to draw that focus out of you. And you need to be getting real time feedback, which is what standup is. But a line cook is also getting real time feedback. Am I burning? He's cooking 30 burgers. Am I burning? So he drops you into a timeless, pleasant place. But I'll join you. We see this exactly the same way I've said this. I don't really like doing standup as much as I like having done stand up. I like the feeling after I've done it. Like you're saying after you've gotten across the lake and now you can relax. It went well, and your body, your mind, you feel fantastic.
- [51:23]
A
But I like doing it too.
- [51:25]
B
Even though it's as much. I do like doing it, but I don't like it as much as having done it. Oh, yeah. The day after a big show is a good time to ask me to borrow $100. And not just because I have $100 from the show, but because I'm in a fantastic mood.
- [51:44]
A
Yeah, does that, you know, I gotta see. I haven't seen what you do.
- [51:50]
C
Yeah.
- [51:50]
A
You know, this is like, I should have probably watched what you do.
- [51:54]
B
No, that's not your job. You're the guest and I already gave you my white hot unicorn routine. I'm giving you the best of the best. My favorite one liner to give you another one is you ever have to poop so bad you pee? Second, I don't think. I don't think I've ever written so few words. See, this is my ego. You asked me my favorite one liners. I'll give you seven. I ask you, you're like, they're all. They're all. Do we just try and we don't know? And I'm like, you want my favorites? Here's my seven favorites in order.
- [52:26]
A
No, you didn't ask me my favorites.
- [52:28]
B
I thought I was.
- [52:29]
A
Yeah, well, you were. And then we got sidetracked. There's one that I love the most and interesting. It's not like a. It's not a short. What I regular joke that I'm known for.
- [52:41]
C
Yeah.
- [52:42]
A
And it's. It's that I went to. Then I'll explain later why I like it so much. Because I said I went to my grandfather's wake and I was kneeling down with the casket and I started thinking about the batteries in my flashlight. Do you know this joke?
- [52:58]
B
No.
- [52:58]
A
I started thinking about the batteries in my flashlight and how. And then I was wondering, maybe he's not dead. Maybe he's just in the wrong way.
- [53:15]
B
That is like the dollar store one. I didn't know. Your brain starts projecting its guess, which is part of the fun of a joke. I'm like, okay, he's going to say, what's he going to say? And then when, by the time you're saying it, it's like falling in a delightful hole or something. It's a really. I love that joke so much.
- [53:33]
A
Thank you. That's my favorite one of all time.
- [53:35]
B
Maybe he's just in the wrong way.
- [53:37]
A
Yeah, maybe he's just in the wrong way because of years of taking batteries out of like a Walkman. Or a Walkman, a radio, anything. You take the dead batteries out and you put them on the table. Then you take the. Open the pack of the new ones, and then the phone rings and then you go over there and then you come back. When you can't tell by looking at a dead battery and a live battery, you can't tell the difference. So you have to be very, you know, aware of what you. You're not thinking this, you're just changing the batteries. But in hindsight, you have to. And that's happened over and over.
- [54:15]
C
Yeah.
- [54:15]
A
So writing material, I think, for everyone is like you sub memory. I was telling you the brain's endless with information.
- [54:23]
B
Yes.
- [54:23]
A
Right. So information, information. And then your subconscious to me is like a factory. It's a factory that's working.
- [54:31]
C
Yes.
- [54:32]
A
And you don't even know that it's working. That's why you. Walking down the street and all these. Think of something this. And it's like a trap door opens from your subconscious to your conscious. And it opens and a guy says this just. And it's like, oh. And you think it's out of the blue, but there is no out of the blue. It's because you were working on it without knowing it. So after years of changing batteries sometime, I don't know how. Why he wasn't at the grandfather's wake. I don't know why I was thinking him at the wake. But then you. Then you have the body. The body is in the casket. Just like a battery is in the casket. Yeah, it's just like the, you know, where you have the spring on the end with the battery. He's just in there.
- [55:16]
C
Yeah.
- [55:16]
A
And it's not working. It's not working. Yeah. Maybe take him out and flip him around. Put him in.
- [55:22]
B
It's.
- [55:23]
A
Hey, let's go get some ice cream.
- [55:27]
B
Which is so funny because I enjoyed that joke without considering maybe he's in the wrong way in the casket. I just thought kind of like a more general way of saying maybe he. What makes him work is in the wrong way. Oh, his own batteries.
- [55:41]
A
No, it was him in the casket. Yeah. He's like a real battery. And the kid, this kid is so innocent, this little kid. He's at the wake.
- [55:49]
C
Yeah.
- [55:49]
A
And he's. Maybe he's not dead. He doesn't want his grandfather to be dead.
- [55:52]
C
Yeah.
- [55:53]
A
Maybe if you turn him around, he's not dead.
- [55:55]
B
Yeah, he's in the wrong way. I feel a little embarrassed that I didn't quite get it, but I still loved it.
- [56:00]
A
Doesn't matter.
- [56:01]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [56:01]
A
Doesn't matter. You left. It doesn't matter that you didn't break it down like that. It doesn't matter.
- [56:09]
C
Yeah.
- [56:09]
B
I pictured him almost with batteries inside, and some of them are facing the wrong way.
- [56:14]
A
Really? Yeah.
- [56:14]
C
Yeah.
- [56:15]
A
Wow.
- [56:15]
B
It was super weird, but I loved it. I got it immediately and loved it. And when you explained it, I was like, oh, of course that's what you meant. But you said. I told you this when we chatted at the airport. A line I think about is. You say a joke is like painting a picture in someone else's mind. Do you remember saying something like that?
- [56:32]
A
Yeah. When you read a book, you're, like, creating what you're reading. And when you stand on stage, you're making little movies in their head. They're making. They're describing, they're picturing what. What you're saying. That's just how naturally people communicate. But that joke, the one. The battery one. I'll tell you why I liked it so much was because there was. I thought of. I didn't think this is. Didn't think of it like a regular joke where the wording came quickly at all. This was very different. It didn't come quickly at all. I knew the flip him in the casket and he would be alive, but it was like, how am I? How am I? And I was riding a bike when I. And my. I wasn't even thinking about it. And then. Oh, Oh, I know. Because there's a lot of information in that joke.
- [57:25]
C
Yeah.
- [57:26]
A
But I figured out how to say all the information again with the fewest words.
- [57:32]
C
Yes.
- [57:33]
A
But it's a way longer joke than my regular joke. But I still eventually figured it out, which was weird because they don't usually take any length to figure it out. Out. And I think it was because there was a lot of information in that joke. It had to be said with the fewest amount of words. So I was riding a bike and I thought. And I go, oh, oh, oh.
- [57:56]
B
Yeah, I had that too. Something about getting the blood flowing. I guess the blood goes to your brain and helps those trap doors open, you know? Have you. Have you found that. I find that, like, driving, which I found, like, takes your mind off your body so you can daydream a little bit better showering. Are there places where, like, ideas tend to break through? Exercising, biking.
- [58:19]
A
I love driving.
- [58:21]
B
Isn't that great?
- [58:21]
A
I love it. I absolutely love it because it's so soothing. It's so relaxed. The visual was constantly changing.
- [58:32]
C
Yeah.
- [58:33]
A
You know, you're moving you know, you got music or the radio or nothing. Yeah, I love it. Exercise, too. I love to ride a bike every morning, and then I have to. I'm addicted to it for, like, 33 years riding a bike. Then I drink coffee, and then coffee is unbelievable. Coffee is like a powerful drug. And then my mind goes insane. So I have a good, like, an hour and a half window having exercise, then drinking coffee like I'm drug addict. But it's caffeine. Your mind's going like this.
- [59:10]
B
Yes. Well, both of those stimulated you and got you going. I love the morning. Are you a morning person? It sounds like you are, which is interesting because we're comedians. I had to adjust to be able.
- [59:20]
A
To do what we did tonight.
- [59:22]
B
I have a line. I'm doing it on stage now. I go, do you have any idea how badly I'd like to do this job at noon? Like, are you nuts? You got me out here. I go, you got me keeping pirate hours. I'm out here swashbuckling.
- [59:35]
A
That's hilarious.
- [59:36]
B
But you know what? I think what you see in it is? It's deeply honest. You're supposed to be grateful and be like, I'm so glad you're here. And I'm like, I wish it was noon. And the people that know me know I mean it. Right? It's like, man, it's hard to get all adrenalized and be done at 11:30 at night and try to go to bed. Which is why there was so much. Well, you're from a crazy time in Boston. I mean, like, that scene. Did you deliberately navigate around some of those talking about cocaine? I'm talking about booze. I'm talking about the lifestyle, the rock star lifestyle of comedy.
- [60:10]
A
I didn't. Wasn't the cocaine guy. Yeah, just a little beer. Those days were amazing.
- [60:18]
C
Yeah.
- [60:18]
B
You think of them fondly?
- [60:21]
A
Absolutely. One of my favorite times in my whole life. Because it was like the club opened in 79. Two clubs. Nobody knew what they. Everyone started at once, and nobody knew what they were doing. It was fantastic. And there were no managers, no agents. This is all in Fran Solomida's movie. Like, when Stand up stood out. A great movie he made of that time.
- [60:47]
C
Yeah.
- [60:48]
A
It was like being on an island. There was no show business. There was just pure trying to want to do this, figuring it out.
- [60:59]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [61:00]
B
I relate. I started in Chicago and I started in Boston. Handful of times, moved to Chicago. Same kind of thing. No agents, no managers. It was just the open mics that we would Go to and trying to be funny, trying to make your friends laugh, trying to make the crowd laugh. But you're making me feel nostalgic. Because that purity, I mean, imagine that was our only concern was being funny that night. Just doing. Well. Nobody was like, yeah, I might do that on Fallon. I don't know.
- [61:30]
A
Yeah. Like, nobody weren't at that level. Yeah. It was very innocent and absolutely pure.
- [61:38]
C
Yeah.
- [61:39]
B
And 79 is before the comedy boom. I mean, that happened, right?
- [61:43]
A
Right. When it's right. Yeah, before, like, then it started in the early 80s.
- [61:47]
C
Yeah.
- [61:48]
A
Like a year. Like 80. 80, 81. You. There were so many clubs, you could do three sets in one night. Wow.
- [61:56]
B
In Boston. Well, there was Dick Doherty's, right?
- [62:00]
A
Yeah, there was Dick Dohertys and the Dingho. It was the Dingho in Cambridge. And then there was the Comedy Connection in Boston. That was the first.
- [62:07]
B
That was the first in Faneuil Hall.
- [62:09]
A
Right. Then it moved to Faneuil Hall.
- [62:12]
B
Oh, okay.
- [62:12]
A
Originally it was in the. In a different. In the theater district.
- [62:17]
C
Yeah.
- [62:19]
B
What comes to mind when you think about that time you're smiling?
- [62:23]
A
Just the simplicity and the innocence going in the club. I just smiled thinking of that club. Just the absolute beginning. You're going on instincts. Just very innocent.
- [62:40]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [62:42]
B
And not even getting paid. Right. I mean, you do the spots well.
- [62:45]
A
You do the open mics for several times. And then when you did get paid, I think it was like $8.
- [62:52]
B
Wow. 8 bucks. I still have the first $10. I got paid framed.
- [62:57]
A
Do you really? It's great. Where was that?
- [63:00]
B
A guy named Dave Odd, who was a comic who booked shows, local shows in Chicago. All around Chicago. Yeah. In the suburbs. But I did it. And, you know, I don't know if, you know Hannibal Burris or.
- [63:12]
A
Oh, my God. I wanted to bring him up.
- [63:15]
B
Really?
- [63:16]
A
Yes. That guy. I wanted to bring up one comedian, and that was him.
- [63:21]
B
What, that chicken bucket hat.
- [63:23]
A
Because I saw him about four years ago in Boston, and that guy is so brilliant. Wow. Yes. I was just like, oh, my God.
- [63:35]
B
I agree.
- [63:36]
A
I mean, I love him. And Bill Burr, of course. And like, there's a lot of great guys. And Jim Gaffigan.
- [63:44]
C
Yeah.
- [63:45]
A
But that guy really stuck in my head for years, in fact, I mean, you know, your mind is, like, full of so much stuff. And he came into my head the other day when you. When I knew I was going to do this with you. His just. Him floated up.
- [64:01]
B
Wow.
- [64:02]
A
And I thought, I have to mention that guy.
- [64:04]
B
Wow. And we started together.
- [64:05]
A
You did?
- [64:06]
C
Yeah.
- [64:06]
B
So 2001 in Chicago.
- [64:08]
A
Wow.
- [64:09]
B
And that was one of the guys, Kumail Nanjiani and Hannibal. I'm going to forget people, but wonderful people. Kyle Kanane all started in this little scene and Hannibal was one of those guys. And then he just figured it out and got so fucking good.
- [64:26]
A
Absolutely brilliant.
- [64:27]
B
Yeah, yeah. Different kind of mind. I mean, different in the best possible way. He thinks about things abstractly and brilliantly. He's gonna be so bummed that we edit that out of the episode, though. He's gonna be pissed. And you know what's weird is I'm gonna tell him we edited something Steven Wright said about you that was nice, but we took.
- [64:52]
A
Are you in touch with him at all?
- [64:54]
B
A little bit.
- [64:55]
A
Tell him I sit alone.
- [64:56]
B
I will. Yeah. No, I'll send him this clip if that's okay, because I'm sure.
- [64:59]
A
I remember I went backstage, I met him briefly, said hi to him. Yeah, it was. It was something else.
- [65:08]
B
I love it.
- [65:08]
A
Was it in the Wilbur Theater in Boston?
- [65:10]
B
Yes, yes. That's my favorite place. Do you perform at the Wilbur when you go home?
- [65:14]
A
Yes, I do.
- [65:15]
C
Yeah.
- [65:17]
A
In fact, I saw him before that with Louis, and Louis was in Louis CK in Chicago at a theater. And he had all these guests. I did like five minutes. He had some other people do five minutes, and Hannibal was one of them. That's how I even saw him. And then I was aware that a few months later he was going to be at the Wilbur, so I went into town to see him at the Wilbur.
- [65:44]
B
Wow, that's incredible. I love that.
- [65:46]
A
It was just incredible.
- [65:48]
B
Wow, that's so fun. He's gonna be thrilled, I'm sure. I. So it's interesting, these comics that you're mentioning, that you like Carlin Hannibal. Were you ever tempted, did you ever try it, to break out of the style and just talk to the folks, like do a bit. Not like a Stephen Wright bit, but just break it.
- [66:11]
A
No, but I want to talk. I mean, Bill Bearer is like. He's on. He's from another planet, planet of creativity. He's. He's in his. He's amazing. All. He's amazing also. Yeah, but I. But I never, like. I don't. Prolific. I don't know how his mind thinks of that. I really respect what he's doing and what he's done and just incredible.
- [66:34]
B
Bill is why I have a special. I just want to shout that out. I had a Netflix specialist because Bill produced it.
- [66:39]
A
Oh, really?
- [66:40]
B
He's one of the first people I opened for. Oh, Jim Gaffigan. I got so lucky. My friend Dan Kaufman, who was in Chicago, got me two gigs open emceeing. First one was Jim Gaffigan. What? Second one was Bill Burr. Neither of those guys were big at the time. It was like before they blew up. And here we are, me and Bill, in Peoria, Illinois. He always killed, but I was eating shit, you know what I mean? He was always killing, but not in the way you would have been shocked. Like, he was doing what he does now, but it's like the culture hadn't yet. I don't know how to. They didn't know what to do with him. Meaning he wasn't murdering how he murdered now, but he was doing the same thing, if that makes sense. And then it's like the culture caught up to him. He was always excellent, and I was watching it. And don't get me wrong, everyone was dying. But now I'm like, if they had seen that exact same show, people would be lighting mattresses on fire and doing backflips. You know what I mean? So I got to be with Bill, and he was so kind to me, and he still is nice.
- [67:41]
A
Wow.
- [67:42]
B
And Jim, too. I got so lucky with the people.
- [67:46]
A
I got those two of the guys I mentioned, I didn't even know. I didn't even know you knew them.
- [67:50]
B
But, Stephen, I mentioned Hannibal kind of out of nowhere. That was like a weird mind meld we had.
- [67:56]
A
It is, and I'm so glad, because he was in my mind yesterday, thinking, I'm going to talk about him today. And then it slipped my mind. And then you bring him up out of the one guy. I mean, that's really weird.
- [68:08]
B
That's really weird. Do you.
- [68:10]
A
I was in Peoria, Illinois, many years ago. What I remember about that town is I went to the factory where they make the tractors. The cat factory. You know, the cat tractors. That's what I remember of that town. They went around and showed, you know. You had a tour of the faggot factory.
- [68:29]
B
You want to see where we make the tractors?
- [68:31]
A
Yeah.
- [68:31]
B
Not really. Well, then we don't have anything to do.
- [68:35]
A
I look up, like, what's around because I love, like, machinery.
- [68:39]
B
Oh. Oh, you. That was your thing?
- [68:41]
A
Yeah. Like how. You know, I'm just fascinated by it. So you're talking and you say, Peoria, Illinois, and you continue talking about Bill and stuff. And I'm thinking, oh, yeah, the cat factory, the tractors.
- [68:58]
B
I think that's where Richard Pryor's from.
- [69:01]
A
They really.
- [69:02]
B
That they. That comics used to say, will it play in Peoria. But I only. Is that a thing you've heard?
- [69:07]
A
Yes. A long time ago. Yeah.
- [69:09]
B
Yeah.
- [69:10]
A
But. But. But even before my generation, that's what I think. Like way, way back.
- [69:14]
B
It's like a vaudevillian. Will it play in Peoria? Like, they said it like that. To continue with plane metaphors, we can start our descent.
- [69:23]
A
Yes. Before we start descending, I want to mention some other comedians in Boston. And Tony V. Oh, yeah. Tony V. Is extremely brilliant and prolific.
- [69:35]
C
Yeah.
- [69:35]
A
And Kenny Rogerson and my great friend Mike Donovan.
- [69:40]
C
Yeah.
- [69:41]
A
All those guys have extremely unique minds.
- [69:45]
C
Yes.
- [69:45]
A
Steve Sweeney, Don Gavin.
- [69:47]
C
Yes.
- [69:49]
B
I love that. And we can keep that in, right?
- [69:52]
A
Yes, yes, yes, yes. This has been very interesting. Interesting. When I left, I was like, thinking how intense you are.
- [70:06]
B
Do you get that I'm feeling that as I'm talking to you? Every once in a while I'll go, jesus, I'm a bit much.
- [70:17]
A
And I was thinking, I'm intense too, but I'm not. I don't usually have these conversations.
- [70:24]
C
Yeah.
- [70:24]
A
So I'm like, very late. I'm laid back with like a. Like an intense part of my mind is just on idle. It's like. But it is intense, you know, but talking to you was like, brought out how? In the intensity. You're so intense that my intensity came out.
- [70:49]
C
Yes.
- [70:49]
A
You didn't cause me to be intense, but I'm usually. It was just fascinating. The conversation was at such a. Heightened. To me, this might be normal to you see, like this. Like this. I don't have. This is not a normal conversation. Not the. What we're talking about. The intensity. I know it was at a subject really.
- [71:08]
C
Yeah.
- [71:09]
A
Exciting level. Like. Yeah. Intense.
- [71:12]
C
Yeah.
- [71:14]
B
I.
- [71:14]
A
We enjoyable too. All this, all the analyzing, breaking down, the fragment of it.
- [71:20]
B
Yeah.
- [71:20]
A
We were breaking down. Doing the comedy, but the comedy is breaking down.
- [71:25]
C
Yeah.
- [71:25]
A
The world.
- [71:26]
C
Yeah.
- [71:27]
B
Yeah, that's right. We're breaking down the. Breaking down. Yeah. And if you don't mind me saying, we were laughing, we took a little break. How funny it is that I did just meet you in the airport.
- [71:39]
A
And like, you were saying it was Saturday today, Sunday.
- [71:43]
B
And I was like, well, you were saying, if you don't mind me quoting you. You're like, I don't do that. I don't do a podcast.
- [71:50]
A
Meet the guy in the airport, three days.
- [71:52]
B
That's insane. I just drooled on myself. That's insane.
- [71:54]
A
I just felt connected to you. We were in Logan airport and the plane was gonna board in a few minutes.
- [72:03]
C
Yeah.
- [72:05]
B
And you had no bags Correct.
- [72:08]
A
Well, I check my luggage, but I have no carry on. It's all in my jacket. Like Harpo Marks.
- [72:14]
B
Yeah, that's right.
- [72:14]
A
Harpo Marks had all this stuff. I travel as if Harpo Marks would be traveling.
- [72:21]
B
Fewer. Fewer gags, mostly, you know, your phone, something to read.
- [72:28]
C
Yeah.
- [72:28]
B
So we started on travel style, but it occurred to me afterwards, I was like, how did that come together? How did this come together? I'm really glad it did. Then I was saying, maybe it's because I'm a Boston guy.
- [72:39]
A
Yeah. You said we did that show, like, at the Garden.
- [72:43]
C
Yeah.
- [72:44]
A
And then.
- [72:44]
B
Because I was like, sorry.
- [72:46]
A
And then. Then you did mention you from Lexington. I don't know. You can't just. I just felt connected to you.
- [72:54]
B
But not to break it down too much, but I was like, that's what it is is. It was like, hey, Stephen. And I want to quickly be like, I'm not just a fan. I want to say we did a. I think the first thing I said, we did a show together. The Garden.
- [73:08]
A
Yes.
- [73:09]
B
And I go, I'm relaxing. I have a comic. Are you going to la? So you're trying to very quickly say, please don't be freaked out. We've met.
- [73:18]
A
You did. It was like when you said we were. Did a show. Okay.
- [73:21]
C
Yeah.
- [73:21]
B
And you said the Leary show.
- [73:22]
A
Yeah.
- [73:23]
B
And I was like, yeah, that was.
- [73:24]
A
The one with Bobby Kelly and the great Dennis Leary.
- [73:28]
C
Yeah.
- [73:28]
A
Amazing. Yeah. Yeah. All at the Garden.
- [73:32]
B
I know. That was a really fun night. Michael J. Fox was there.
- [73:36]
A
I remember. Oh, yes.
- [73:37]
C
Yeah.
- [73:38]
A
He's a nice guy.
- [73:40]
C
Yeah.
- [73:40]
B
We only talked a little. And I told you my parents were there because I. This is my. These are my beans to spill. So I feel comfortable saying. I was telling you that whenever I go home, I always feel like it's like time travel or something. Suddenly I'm a child again. I was like, my dad came and saw me at the Boston Garden performing for how many tens of thousands of people he was there. And yet when I go home, doesn't matter.
- [74:09]
A
Well, my analogy is like, Neil. You could be Neil Armstrong if your parents still treat you like. If I had been Neil Armstrong and it was on the moon. And then if, like, came back and then a few months later I went to visit home and I walked in, my mother would say, you were just on the moon. Wipe your feet. Get that moon dust out of there. That's it. Because that is sums it up. Because it doesn't matter what you did. Your feet are dirty and you're the child and you're coming in the house.
- [74:46]
C
Yes.
- [74:47]
A
That's what happened when you did the garden, Right?
- [74:49]
B
That's exactly right. That's exactly right. Although I will say my parents have updated the. There is some respect and appreciation.
- [74:57]
C
You know what I mean?
- [74:57]
B
They can sometimes glimpse me as a. As a grown.
- [75:00]
A
Oh, that's good.
- [75:00]
C
Yeah.
- [75:01]
B
Little progress. Little progress here and there, which, you know, now that I'm a dad, I understand it'll be hard. It'll be an adjustment when my daughter is on the moon. That'll be weird for me.
- [75:15]
A
Well, can we. I really enjoyed this, but can wrap it up? This be the end?
- [75:20]
B
Yeah, this can be the end. Absolutely.
- [75:23]
A
Thanks for having me.
- [75:24]
B
Can I compliment you as a person who says what they want and this whole time you were like, this is how I'd like it to be. I'm glad to be here. Can this be the end? I've never had a guest say that. And as the host, honestly, I would die if you were like, I'd really like this to be the end. And it wasn't. So I'm so happy that you said it.
- [75:45]
A
No problem.
- [75:45]
B
And I want to say you said all these nice things to you. You're one of the greats. Thank you for being as kind as I hoped you were and for taking the time to do this.
- [75:53]
A
Thank you very much from running into.
- [75:55]
B
Me at the airport.
- [75:56]
A
Absolutely.
- [75:57]
B
Would you say this is absurd, but we have the guests say, keep it crispy. It's how the show ends. It doesn't mean anything, but I would be honored if you would say keep it crispy, but you can also say no.
- [76:08]
A
What do you mean? Right. Are you going to use that as a drop in thing?
- [76:12]
B
It's not even a drop in.
- [76:14]
A
Are you going to be. Is this when you're asking me to.
- [76:17]
B
Say that'll be in the show?
- [76:19]
A
So when it ended, it didn't really end. Like, this is like, oh, this.
- [76:23]
B
This will be the end. This moment where you say keep it crispy.
- [76:26]
C
Will be.
- [76:27]
A
But are we going to. Is it going to have the. Yeah, yeah.
- [76:30]
B
This is like Spaceballs.
- [76:31]
A
Is it going to have the part where you are suggesting I say keep it crispy?
- [76:35]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [76:36]
A
Okay.
- [76:36]
B
And if it's okay, I just want.
- [76:37]
A
To know what's happening.
- [76:38]
B
It'll also include me too. It'll include the part where I say, can I just say as a guest that you stood up for yourself and I would die if we were doing that'll all be in the show as.
- [76:45]
C
Well, if that's okay.
- [76:47]
B
And then just to give it a sense of closure. Our thank you, good night. Is keep it crispy.
- [76:52]
A
What does that even mean, though?
- [76:54]
B
I think it's funny. It's just kind of like, keep it crisp, keep it light, keep it crunchy.
- [76:58]
A
Am I saying this to you?
- [76:59]
B
You can say it to anybody.
- [77:00]
A
Keep it crispy.
- [77:02]
B
Gives me a lot of joy to hear you say it.
- [77:05]
C
Thank you.
- [77:05]
B
Stephen. Check out. We'll plug all your stuff up top.
- [77:08]
A
Now the show's thank.