We Made It Weird #141

Summary

Podcast Summary: You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes

Episode: We Made It Weird #141

Release Date: June 23, 2023

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Episode Overview

This “We Made It Weird” episode of You Made It Weird features the usual dynamic between host Pete Holmes and his wife/co-host, Valerie ("Val"). The conversation embodies the show’s signature blend of philosophy, humor, and riffing on everyday quirks and oddities. Together, they dive into personal stories, reflections on relationships, spirituality, creativity, and self-acceptance—punctuated by playful banter and candid emotional honesty. The main thread: Everyone has “secret weirdness”—and revealing, accepting, or laughing at it can be healing.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Ritual of Repetition in Conversation

• Theme: The comfort (or annoyance) of repeated stories in family life, and the etiquette of acknowledging repetition.
• Timestamps: 00:16–02:06
• Pete jokes about always saying "I love this one," which leads them into discussing how people repeat themselves and whether or not you should admit to it.
• Quote:
  • Pete: “You know what I always say? And I'm like, we've heard this.” (00:36)
  • Valerie: "But you do it most of the time. ... It's like, of course I'm your partner. That's what I signed up for. You don't have to acknowledge it for me." (01:54)
• Insight: The little rituals of marriage—like affirming your partner’s constant exposure to your stories—are small acts of care.

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2. Vibrato, Language, and Teaching Kids

• Theme: Philosophical musings on sound (inspired by Alan Watts), the messiness of teaching children the English language, and marveling at everyday phenomena.
• Timestamps: 05:20–07:46
• Pete relates Alan Watts' idea that every note wobbles, segueing into why English spelling is so confounding.
• Notable Riff: Playful complaints about teaching children to read:
  • Val: “I don't want to teach a kid to read. ... This one is a silent E. Sometimes Y, like it’s too much.” (07:46)

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3. Alcohol, Youth, and Evolving Relationships to Substances

• Theme: Early adulthood experimentation with alcohol and weed, and how those experiences shape maturity and perspective.
• Timestamps: 09:14–19:07
• Valerie recounts clubbing and drinking excessively in her early 20s—including buying a breathalyzer just for the thrill of testing BAC.
• Pete, meanwhile, reflects on being more drawn to alcohol as a painkiller than a social lubricant.
• Quotes:
  • Val: "First four years of twenties. ... Just like going to the club every night." (09:23)
  • Pete: “I am a non-drinking person and I don’t crave it. The only time I crave it is ... as a painkiller.” (20:10)
• Insight: They both describe how their approaches to substances changed over time, often tied to community and emotional needs.

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4. The Community vs. Individualism Paradox

• Theme: The myth of rugged individualism in Western culture vs. the actual need for community and mutual support.
• Timestamps: 22:46–26:59
• Discussion on “go it alone” mythologies (like Top Gun or Batman) and how real fulfillment comes from interdependence.
• Pete shares a recent revelation of the joy and necessity of small-town community:
  • Pete: “There’s a cost to building an iron man suit and trying to fly up to the sun. ... You lose these [connections].” (26:13)
• Val: “That’s why I was so desperate in those first two years to find my friends [after moving to LA].” (29:45)

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5. Relationship Growth & The Need for Difference

• Theme: Balancing differences in relationships, and the danger of unconsciously erasing what you initially loved in your partner.
• Timestamps: 29:38–34:50
• They reflect on how individuality (and friction) within a relationship is what keeps it rich and alive.
• Quote:
  • Val: "You were drawn to that person not just because of the parts ... you liked ... but the parts you didn't relate to. ... That’s sexy and appealing." (33:59)
• Insight: Healthy relationships involve safeguarding each partner’s uniqueness and resisting enmeshment.

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6. Self-Worth, Productivity, and "Despising the Wounded"

• Theme: The Western tendency to equate worth with output, and the spiritual/psychological consequences of that belief.
• Timestamps: 26:59–28:33, 41:08–44:28
• Key Reference: Father Greg Boyle’s observation—"If you hate your wounds, you tend to despise the wounded." (27:00, 41:08)
• Pete and Val reflect on how forgiving others' flaws starts with accepting one’s own.
• Quote:
  • Pete: “If you hate your wounds, you tend to despise the wounded.” (27:00, 41:08)
  • Val: "If you can't forgive them, forgive yourself for not being able to forgive them." (43:39)
• Insight: Accepting your own imperfection ("woundedness") opens you to loving others more deeply.

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7. Forgiveness, Judgment, and Spiritual Practice

• Theme: Deep dives into spirituality (Course in Miracles, Tara Brach, Jack Kornfield), practical forgiveness, and self-compassion.
• Timestamps: 41:06–46:22, 53:27–62:53
• They share methods for self-compassion: noticing judgment without escalation, understanding that the mind defends itself through judgment, and the healing power of compassion.
• Quote:
  • Pete: “He [Ken Wapnick] goes, be kind, and when you can't be kind, forgive yourself for not being kind. He goes, that's the whole thing.” (43:39)
• Val: “The beautiful thing about compassion … is it’s a super bloomer … and it changes the whole ecosystem in your body.” (45:15)

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8. The Value of Yin (Feminine Energy) and Restorative Practices

• Theme: The importance of yin energy—rest, community, softness—contrasted with a life of constant “doing.”
• Timestamps: 54:26–56:06
• Val recounts attending a Yin Yoga class with her mom and friends, reflecting on how the body holds emotion and the value of slow, receptive spaces.

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9. Writing, Creativity, and Productivity “Hacks”

• Theme: Overcoming creative resistance, the role of ritual, and the controversial use of rewards like nicotine for productivity.
• Timestamps: 63:04–69:34
• Pete shares a personal tip: pairing the act of writing with a reward (in his case, a low dose of nicotine gum) to create a positive association and overcome inertia.
• Both discuss the value of rituals—coffee, a favorite candle, a cozy writing space—in setting up a creative state.
• Quote:
  • Pete: “Writers just get in the seat. That’s the hardest part. … I only write when I’m inspired. Luckily, I’m inspired every morning at 9am.” (64:07)

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10. Parenting Moment: Attention-Seeking and the Parts Within

• Theme: A parenting anecdote about Valerie’s daughter, Leela, demonstrates how children (and adults) act out just to get attention—and how tuning into that need fosters healthier connection.
• Timestamps: 61:52–61:55
• Quote:
  • Val: “What are you trying to tell me? … Do you want my attention? … Next time just be like, I need your attention.” (61:52)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “If you hate your wounds, you tend to despise the wounded.” – Pete Holmes quoting Father Greg Boyle (27:00, 41:08)
• “I want to be very clear and yes, and you. But vibrato would be the addition of intentionality to phenomenon. It's already occurring. … Making it more obvious.” – Pete Holmes (05:50–06:20)
• “You can't behold your own perfection until you see the perfection of everyone who's created like you, which is everyone.” – Pete Holmes (43:08)
• “Be kind. And when you can't be kind, forgive yourself for not being kind. He goes, that's the whole thing.” – Pete Holmes quoting Ken Wapnick (43:39)
• “You were drawn to that person … not just because of the parts … you related to, but the parts you didn’t. … That’s sexy and appealing.” – Val (33:59)
• “Loving people just feels so good—that’s, by the way, I’m not forgiving [my friend], I’m loving him. But loving is just another kind of word for forgiveness.” – Pete Holmes (46:24)

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Section Timestamps

| Topic | Timestamps | |---|---| | Opening Banter on Repetition & Family Habits | 00:16–02:06 | | Vibrato, Sound, and English Language Oddities | 05:20–07:46 | | Alcohol, Youth, and Substance Reflection | 09:14–19:07 | | The Myth of Individualism / Need for Community | 22:46–26:59 | | Relationship Growth & Individuality | 29:38–34:50 | | Self-worth & Despising the Wounded | 26:59–28:33, 41:08–44:28 | | Spiritual Forgiveness and Judgment | 41:06–46:22, 53:27–62:53 | | Yin (Feminine Energy) and Restorative Spaces | 54:26–56:06 | | Writing, Ritual, and Productivity “Hacks” | 63:04–69:34 | | Parenting: Attention & the Parts Within | 61:52–61:55 |

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Tone & Language

• Conversational, playful, and deeply honest
• Alternates between philosophical/spiritual depth and goofy, rapid-fire riffing
• Both honor their own and each other's weirdness, modeling vulnerability and affection throughout
• Frequent self-deprecating humor and meta-commentary on the show’s audience and purpose

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For New Listeners

This episode is emblematic of the cozy, free-associative, and heart-centered dialogue You Made It Weird is known for. Pete and Val use their own quirks, histories, and vulnerabilities to explore bigger spiritual and relational truths—always with warmth and laughter. If you find comfort in hearing people be open about their flaws and explore how to be a little more gentle with themselves and others, this is a nourishing listen.

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Listen If You’re Interested In:

• Couples navigating individuality, boundaries, and growth
• The philosophical and spiritual side of self-acceptance, forgiveness, and compassion
• Parenting wisdom—both literal and metaphorical
• The creative process and overcoming resistance
• Why the world needs more “weirdos”—and why that’s a good thing

(Ad reads and non-content sections are omitted from this summary as per instructions.)

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Keep it crispy!

Transcript

[A]

You made it weird.

[B]

You made it weird.

[A]

You made it weird.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

You made it weird. Yes, you did. You made it weird with Pete Holmes.

[B]

What's happening, weirdos? This audiobook is brought to you by Sal and Pete.

[A]

Boy, I love this one.

[B]

Yeah, this was fun.

[A]

I love this one. I know I always say that, but this. This one's extra, extra crispy. Great.

[B]

You know what you definitely always say is. I know I always say, yeah, because.

[A]

Growing up, I just told you that, like, people in my family, a lot of them just repeat things, and it's like, aren't you even gonna acknowledge that you've said that a hundred thousand times? Because it's. It's like gaslighting.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

You know what I always say? And I'm like, we've heard this.

[B]

Where's the real person? Underneath this person.

[A]

But it mine, you know, it's an overcorrection, so I' afraid. But when people do that and they say, one of my favorite things in life is if I. Let's say my name is Billy, and there's three of us. There's Billy. And let's say there's another person named Renee. Renee Zellweger. And I'm Billy. And I just told you a story about how I love parasailing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then Renee Zellweger comes in, and I go, h. I was just telling Val. Val, I'm sorry you have to hear this again.

[B]

I love that you say you're, like, kind of the only person I know. That's it.

[A]

Other people do it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because when people do it constantly, I love it. Thank you for acknowledging that. This is a repeat, dude.

[B]

Yeah, this is a repeat.

[A]

Oh, parasailing. I was here for this twice.

[B]

It's.

[A]

Acknowledge it.

[B]

It's so sweet, but, like. And I think it is a good trait, but I feel like spouses should be off the hook. Like, you can't be saying that for me.

[A]

We don't do that every time.

[B]

But you do it most of the time. Like, I tell. I just. Poor Val's heard this a million times. You say that so often. It's like, of course I'm your partner. That's what I signed up for. You don't have to acknowledge it for me.

[A]

Ram Dass used to say, think of how many times I've heard it.

[B]

That's funny.

[A]

He's like, I know some of you heard this, but think of how many. Okay. All right, guys. Support the show. We just have one. I think it's perfect. Jeans, which I'm Wearing, of course, it's my fav. So listen to this little ad for perfect jeans. I love them. Support the show. Support your, you know, your.

[B]

Your local businesses.

[A]

Well, yeah, they're great little biz. Yeah, Listen to this ad and. All right, go do the ad. Speaking of my special, when I, you know, obviously you're going to tape your special. You want to look good. This is 100% real. I wore, no doubt, my perfect jeans. This episode is brought to us by our friends at the Perfect Jean and. And evidence that I legit love the perfect jean. Not only when I want to feel good, because they are the best pants I've ever owned. They're soft, but it's like a soft Secret. It's 2% spandex, 2.5% rayon for extra comfort and movement that your man parts require. But they also look like designer jeans. They have the best washes and the best cuts and they look incredible. And they're made from the best quality sewing techniques and materials. Meaning I have all. My jeans are perfect jeans, and they never need to be replaced. And they move. They're flexible. They're soft, comfortable pants. They're not yoga pants. They are jeans, but they stretch so your nuts ain't crushed, thereby providing the only true home for your bone with specialized washing for your jeans. So they feel literally as soft as a baby's butt. You might even forget you're wearing pants. And as I said, they're constructed, utilizing the best quality materials and sewing techniques to provide you with a product that is built to last. And they're not khakis, although they do make Jean khakis, and those are my new favorite. They also make hoodies, which are my new favorite hoodies. I'm obsessed with their hoodies. I'm obsessed with their T shirts. I wore one of their white crisp T shirts for my special as well. And I wore their athletic cut. Dark blue. Dark blue. Dark blue. Great jeans. I wore these dark blue jeans for my special and they look incredible. So check them out. I absolutely love them and I reached out to them to sponsor the show and that's how we got here. So the perfect gene for perfectly imperfect men. 20% off when you use code weirdo at checkout. Liberate your lower limbs with the one and only perfect gene. Whether you're working with lemons or lentils, a three leaf clover, or a big old honking eggplant, the perfect gene has you covered. You can look good and feel good. Take a peek at the perfect gene. NYC. That's www.the perfect J E A N NYC. Use code weirdo for 20% off at checkout. Support your body, look good, and support this show.

[B]

All right.

[A]

I'm also on tour. Go to Pete Holmes dot com. The shows have been great. Hope to see you out there.

[B]

And Valerie, get into it.

[A]

That's an Alan Watts thing where he goes, every, every, every. But the very notion. Everything is in and out, up and down, even if you listen to my voice. And then he goes. He goes. It sounds to our ear, one note, but if you listen carefully, you can hear it.

[B]

It's going vibr.

[A]

But it'. Vibrato. Sure. Yes. Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I want. I want to be very clear and yes, and you. But vibrato would be the addition of intentionality to phenomenon. It's already occurring.

[B]

Meaning it's the. Yeah.

[A]

Every note is vibrato, but vibrato is make apparent what is happening with every note. Does that make sense?

[B]

Yes. Yes. It's making it big.

[A]

Well, making it more obvious. Are we saying the same thing?

[B]

More obvious.

[A]

But there is no way to do a note that is clean because it's always a relationship. It's always like this. Wobble.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. There's a wobble to it.

[A]

There's a wobble to it.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Oh, you know how to butter my bread.

[B]

So this is. This is what you're like right now.

[A]

I actually thought I was totally chill.

[B]

Did you?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. You feel, like, gummy. I'm holding your hand right now, and you feel gooey. Gummy.

[A]

I'm a toll house.

[B]

You're giving me the full weight of your arm. Right?

[A]

Well, you didn't ask for anything but it.

[B]

I didn't want anything, but you didn't ask for anything. But that's a gummy worm that I'm holding right now. I want a giant, heavy gummy worm for an arm.

[A]

Ghgw.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

I. Oh, yeah. I thought for a second giant was with a J.

[B]

It should be giant should be with it.

[A]

Jump. The giant jumped. Let's spell that.

[B]

This is why. I'm not one of those parents that's like teaching their kid to read. Let the school handle that. I can't be explaining to her why is a J.

[A]

Don't get me started up. Jesus.

[B]

J, E and I. J, E. Look, I know that I am an English teacher by trade, technically.

[A]

Just admit.

[B]

But I don't want to teach a kid to read. It's too much. The letter. Sound it out. This one is a silent E. Sometimes Y, like it's too much.

[A]

That's funny. I was just thinking about one of the funniest Simpsons. Underrated Simpsons. It's when Bart joins a boy band. See, I'm gooey. I'm excited and I'm gooey.

[B]

Okay. I don't know why that was gooey.

[A]

No, I'm just showing you. Like, look how calmly I'm speaking to you right now. Like, I can. I can do this. I don't want you to be afraid. Like, you are safe. Everything is fine. This train makes this local stuff.

[B]

This is like a drunk person trying to convince you that I'm sober. Look. Hello, officer. That's what my friend Kat used to do. Hello. Look. No, I'm totally sober. Look, hello, officer.

[A]

Yeah, you know, if you're rehearsing the Alphabet backwards, it might be time to stop tanking the tuk. Tuk.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean? When you're like, I'm gonna need this. Z, X, W, X, Y, Z, Y, W, X. No, Z, Y, X, W. I think.

[B]

Cops just want to see srq.

[A]

What the fuck is happening? Are you Captain Morgan's mistress? Are you right now?

[B]

I was at one time.

[A]

What do you mean? What was your relation with alcohol? Talk to me.

[B]

Pretty. Pretty hot and heavy there for a bit.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah, I guess it was before you knew me. Although it spilled into when you knew me. But like first five years of twenties. First four years of twenties. For sure.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just like going to the club every night.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And we used to. In fact, the. The drunk testing reminded me that we. My ex husband got a breathalyzer. Like, because you used to just be able to like. It was like when Amazon was like, hey, this bookstore sells some other stuff.

[A]

You are.

[B]

You know, where you get all your college books that.

[A]

That you can get. Breathalyzers raise space.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For those of us old enough to know when Amazon was just books and it started doing some weird shit too.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Before you were like, do you need a wing nut for a grill?

[B]

Do you remember?

[A]

We got it here. Name the weirdest thing you get on Amazon. I'll go first. Raw Brazil nuts.

[B]

That's. I think this is a game for you. I don't really get weird things on Amazon.

[A]

I do.

[B]

You get a lot of weird things.

[A]

I get a lot. I got a. I got the. The cold plunge has a special, like, wrench that you have to take the filter off with. Wow. Found it on Amazon. I got the wrong one on Amazon. Then I finally.

[B]

Yeah, the right one.

[A]

It's not a good story.

[B]

Well, I'm glad you Interrupted my actual good story. Sorry. Oh, I thought we were doing New.

[A]

York starts running the news. Okay, go ahead, Val. Well, I'm mad. Go ahead with this hot story.

[B]

So we got. Do you remember sending your books back to.

[A]

Oh, I'm sorry. Am I. Welcome to riff. Now I'm pissed.

[B]

Oh, this is okay to rep now? Oh, my God.

[A]

You let me know when I can rep. In fact, just, just, just, just, just, just, Just hold up one finger when I'm free to riff and when you want me to be a regular Cold Gray Line motherfucker.

[B]

Just a fucking listener.

[A]

Just an active listener. I was thinking. Not. No, bullshit. I was thinking today, sweet listeners, of what a special crop you are. You are a special crop.

[B]

These listeners.

[A]

Oh, my God. You walk around the. The greenhouse of podcasting.

[B]

Oh, no. Yes.

[A]

I wasn't talking about these flower. Like they. They play music like this. Flowers playing music. And they're like. Yeah, it's a different kind of fan.

[B]

It lights up at night.

[A]

I know that sounds like I'm kissing ass, but it's true. If you can. We say it almost every week. Who listens to this? If you can roll with this, you're a unique breed.

[B]

But what I was. When I said listener in our riff, I didn't mean listeners of this podcast. I meant you.

[A]

You were talking about, like, listeners.

[B]

Just somebody who listens. Which is telling that your mind went straight to. You mean, like, listener podcast?

[A]

We're doing a podcast. I feel like my own lawyer. Your Honor, they were doing a podcast.

[B]

Okay, going back to the breathalyzer. So we got a little. I still remember it. It looked like it was just a perfect rectangle with, like a screen with red numbers.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And the thing that you breathe into would fold down for poor, for maximum.

[A]

For the drunk going to go. Yeah, I got it.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

That's an old Jim Gaffigan line. You give someone a flask, like, hey, you look like a drunk on the go. Just want a footnote. My riff.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

Jimmy Gaff.

[B]

So Jimmy Gaff. Corn. And I don't care.

[A]

What is corn? Just bunch of yellow teeth in a husk. Why am I eating this? And then it ends up in your teeth.

[B]

Why?

[A]

And then it ends up in your poop.

[B]

I don't know why is high fructose corns are a bad for you, but corn is good for you.

[A]

I actually don't think corn is good for you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When you guys were rocking corn yesterday, which looked great, I passed because I was like, that's what we give. Like, livestock. Because it just bulks you up. Just like a bulk. I think the corn people are, like, have been sidling up to the vegetable.

[B]

Community for a long time, but it's actually one. It's like a potato. It's like one of the vegetables that are.

[A]

It is. Potato and corn are outside of the dance hall, where asparagus and zucchini are all in there doing limbo. And they're great at it. They're very bendy. And out in the back, corn and potato are smoking ciggies and kicking cans because they know they don't got much going. That's when McDonald's comes up and, like, you want to be sugar, you want to be fries?

[B]

I can make sugar out of you.

[A]

You want to be sugar? You wanna be fries? It's Louis Armstrong. Hey, baby.

[B]

I see fries.

[A]

Fries of grease.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Red Tomato. Too sweet.

[B]

Where do we stand on his voice?

[A]

We like it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I'm definitive. We like it.

[B]

Everybody accepts it.

[A]

That's terrible. You see him after a concert. We accept your voice. Thank you.

[B]

Okay, so, yeah, we got the breathalyzers, and we were at the stage where it wasn't like, this is great. Now we'll know when it's appropriate to drive and when it's not. It was. Let's see. The biggest number we can make this thing not to drive.

[A]

Rogan in the 2000s. Not Seth Rogen. Now we have a more sensible Seth Rogen's, like, I don't know if we should be doing heroin. And, like. But earlier. It was earlier. Whoops. I did heroin.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Was that a good impression?

[B]

It was a little intense, but it was the vague idea. Yeah, Yeah.

[A]

I thought mine was great.

[B]

It was a lot.

[A]

I'm in the cans. You don't have the headphones on.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You're in reality.

[B]

I guess the cans have a Seth Rogen filter.

[A]

Let me turn on the Seth Rogan auto tune.

[B]

Anyway, so we.

[A]

How many times have you wanted to say that Dave is a great show, by the way, the auto tune.

[B]

So many times.

[A]

I used to, when we were talking about how I went to podcast listeners instead of people who listen, he said, like, obviously, you know, self interest is at play in an extreme way with him. With me, too.

[B]

Oh, sure.

[A]

Something I deal with that, you know.

[B]

Yeah. You can relate to.

[A]

It's. Yes. And I love and I admire. We're watching that show, and it's so great. That's that.

[B]

Go ahead.

[A]

So you got the breathalyzer, and you would drink a lot.

[B]

We, like. We would see who could get the biggest number from the breathalyzer and. And then we would. We would wait until we were at 1 or. No, at 0.08, where you would get a DUI and try and do all of the tests. Like, just in my house. Like, we weren't driving everybody.

[A]

Nobody. Okay, buddy. Thought you were wrong or illegal. It just sounds like a montage in a movie about Greta gerwig in her 20s.

[B]

Yeah, sure. I love it. I mean, I don't real.

[A]

It's helpful. Geez, it's helpful. I know. I'm. Gonna. By the time Leela is in her 20s, I'm gonna just completely have deleted the need for social status, social groups, friends identity, concerts. Like, it's just helpful to have a record and just to remember, like, these things really matter.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

I think by the time we're that age, it'll be totally possible for me to just be like, we didn't do that. We hated that. And if she's doing that, I'll. You know, I don't wanna. I don't wanna judge it.

[B]

I know. I already am. Like, her frontal lobe wouldn't. Isn't even developed. And mine wasn't either. And I was.

[A]

And look how you turned it in.

[B]

Doing a lot of.

[A]

Sounds like a joke. I said it like a joke. I did say it like a joke. I mean, but I do. It's actually. Let's. Let's walk the joke back. Like a camel. It's slow, but we're almost back, and we're back at the beginning. And you did turn out fantastic. And. And I really. I'm a huge fan. Back to narcissism. I'm a big fan of myself, and I'm like. I like the way my brain turned out, but I didn't start drinking heavy until I was 22.

[B]

I didn't start drinking at all until I was 20, and it was at my own bachelorette party. So. Yeah. But I. I think I actually. In hindsight, I feel. I feel like I did it the best you could because you should have. Maybe. Should is a weird word.

[A]

Don't should on me, dude.

[B]

You want. Like, most people want to have years where they're exploring what all of that feels like. Like, partying feels like. I didn't do any of that in high school. I didn't do it until I was 20. I did it basically from the ages 20 to 25. Alcohol.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then I smoked weed from age 21 to 28.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then, like, done. Like, pretty done.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

I mean, Not. Not like sober, but basically like I did.

[A]

What? Us. I know I'm California sober, which is. Is ridiculous. Which means I'll occasionally do weed. Although we already talked about this last time I got stoned. The part of me that, like, comforts me and tells me everything's gonna be okay. He's. What? Got stoned. And then I was just like, things aren't okay. So I was like. I'm like. I might be getting the point where that's less of an option.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I do. Of course, you know, psychedelics are a big part of my spiritual. Spiritual break.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

But you're one of those people that I just don't understand. I know we've talked about it before.

[B]

That feels good.

[A]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I mean it like Tom Brady. Like, I don't understand Thomas Brady. Tommy B.

[B]

Is he part of the Brady Bunch? Who is that guy?

[A]

Is he the center? Was he. Alice, I. I mean, like an irreverent, like an admiration.

[B]

Yes, No, I know, but you.

[A]

And I've told it a million. But you. Lisa Gunger and Michael Gunger and I. Oh, no, I wasn't drinking at this point. But we were in Hawaii and you had Manhattan's and they sat there the whole meal and I am a non drinking person and I don't crave it. The only time I crave it is as a. And a. What is it? Anesthetized? As a painkiller. Because if I'm on a plane and my back hurts and everyone's getting loaded.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm just sort of like. It is kind of nice to have something that just kind of like makes you numb.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Not great. It's not worth it. I don't want to be a purple lipped, weird dad and. Or partner or friend or person. So. Believe me, I have a billion reasons. And a bitch is one. It's this woman. Hello, Carol. Sorry. Having a little flip out over here. I'll be. I'll be back and I'll be gooey again in 30. Okay, 30 minutes.

[B]

That's the end of the podcast.

[A]

No, I know. What I'm saying is, you guys, they were getting warm. Like, I just didn't understand it. Like a Manhattan. These things are meant to be. In my opinion. You should drink them in like four sips.

[B]

Well, you used to do fast Manhattan.

[A]

I used to drink them in one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I. Because that was. You know, we don't have to get into all my drinking things, but I was always just, like, just fucking get to it. It's actually kind of one of the things that I've identified now is something that I love about myself, which is, like, I've been touring and the shows have been so great, and I respect and appreciate that. The same thing that made me a not wonderful, balanced alcohol person is also what makes me a good comedian. I was thinking about it as one of the things that makes me. But, like, as cells under a microscope. It is weird that we just hoard different resources. Some people hoard beauty and, you know, that helps them in their lives. And just imagine being a scientist and looking at human beings, but each one of us is a cell. And. And then there's, like, other small things, and some of them are money. And, like, look at this cluster of cells, the 1% or whatever you want to say. And they have this resource that everybody else needs, like, to eat and to grow, and they hoard it, and then they slowly give it to the other people. Like, okay, I can see that. One of the weirder things is hoarding comedy. Like, that really occurred to me this last leg of the tour because I was like, of course, comedians and everybody who does anything. Barbers. I'm not trying to say comedian. Oh, what a special subculture. I just mean, like, anybody that does anything. What is the word? Specialized. You have a specialty. It's bizarre. This is why we find people like Zuckerberg or whatever. Like, if coding and that, you get hyper focus, and I've got hyper focus on being funny and delivering it. Like. So of course, like, it's gonna take a toll in other areas of my life. I might not necessarily be, but I think that's true for pilots, you know what I mean? They're probably gonna be a little uptight at Disneyland and I might, you know, whatever. My things are totally.

[B]

Well, I think we all have strengths and blind spots or like, you know, which is, I think, a sign that we are meant to be together.

[A]

Absolutely. Dude. I love it.

[B]

So funny.

[A]

Because they need each other.

[B]

Yeah, that's why, like, it seems so. It's funny that we live in a culture that is both hyper logical and individualistic. Because individualism isn't even logical.

[A]

No.

[B]

Like, it doesn't make any sense.

[A]

Did we talk about that? We didn't. I think I talked about this with Taran Killam, which was one of my favorite episodes. We're like, the same person. I loved it, and I'm not going to ruin it.

[B]

Is he single or. Once, like, I want to date somebody. Just like you.

[A]

That's so cute.

[B]

It is true.

[A]

I love that. Thank you for that flirt. I received it. Taryn and I were talking about the. The mythology of the west and how, like, it's Go it alone. We were talking about Top Gun Maverick. Go it alone until the last minute when you absolutely can't go any further than at the last second, that guy that you were nice to in the second act will come and save you.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So it's really go it alone. It's Jordan and Pippen. Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen is like, go alone. Go alone. But then at last. Oh, that big game. Like, you know, I had to lean on my teammate. Like, we love that.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah. That's true. We do love both because we love, like, war movies where, like, love Saving Private Ryan and all of that. But I think it is. It's my interpretation of that, is that it is us understanding that the individual over the whole model that Western society has actually doesn't work, and that it leaves, like, a deep ache inside of us.

[A]

And you should learn that you need each other. Exactly. The next Batman movie, he's back at it again. You know what I mean? He's out there fighting it alone. And this is because we still have that mythology, and he has to learn it again. In fact, you could say these characters have to learn it every single movie, because that seems to be, like, the cycle that. That I can't speak for all men and I can't speak for women. I'm just saying it seems to be particularly present in the male mythology of, like, I will provide, and it sucks, and I'll push it up the mountain. And every once in a while, you get shattered and broken.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you go, like, I could call. I'll leave gender analytics out of it. That's what I do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm always doing it. I push it. And I'm just. Now, I was saying to you just the other day that a big surprise in my 40s is that I feel like I'm learning more than I thought I would. I kind of thought the die would be cast. And I'm learning a lot. And one of the things I'm learning is, like, you know, we've talked about this a lot here in town. We moved out of the city, and now we have people that we go to coffee with. And it's such a new and wonderful experience for me to have a community that relies on me for certain things. And they're all. They're not fancy things. This is why when I say this. I don't feel like I have to check my privilege, because I know I just visited my friends in Cleveland. They were talking about their neighbors and how they're friends with their neighbors and that's who they do their stuff with. And I was like, this is what I've been missing. There's a cost to building an iron man suit and trying to fly up to the sun. Like, you lose these.

[B]

Cost is like your. Your soul.

[A]

Well, this is why there's all the. The crossroads. And the devil's like, I'll teach you how to play the fiddle, but it'll cost you. So. So I'm doing all of this, like, earthly. I know earthly soul sounds like a paradox, but I'm just like. I don't mean spiritual soul. I mean psychological, relational, communal soul. Whereas I was like, I had, you know, everybody knows where I'm going with this. It was like, I used to be just allies, just people that could, like, move things forward. I have a post it on my desk over there. I actually love this about me again, we're back to the boozy thing. I have a post it over there that says, go to guys. And it's just guys that can get things done. Like Brian Cullen, who did our podcast studio. He's also an incredible editor. And I'm like, brian Cullen goes on the post it. Nothing wrong with that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it get. It puts you in a state where you start to think that your value is what you produce and other people's value is what they produce. Which, by the way, is the one thing I wanted to say on this podcast. It's been coming up a lot this week, which is a line from Father Greg Boyle's books, which everyone should be listening to constantly. Tattoos on the heart, barking to the choir and the whole language. Incredible audiobooks. But he goes, if you hate your wounds, you tend to despise the wounded. And I was like, oh, my God, get out of my heart.

[B]

I love it. I love it.

[A]

Get out of my heart. And so I don't mean that. I mean, please move into my heart.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because I relate to that super hard. When I'm in a real. And it's a Western dream. And there's a lot that I like about. There's a lot that I like about my life, but there's this bigging up of yourself, like I said, making an iron man suit and being faster and shinier and going for. And all that stuff. And there can be a cost. Like, you start. Like when we started eating a little Bit of chicken. I noticed I got less judgy about people that eat chicken.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So that was a good thing. I, you know, I still can't make perfect sense of the morality of killing animals. We won't get into that. But still. When I stopped only having friends that the, the, the nucleus of our relationship was what we could do for each other even if we didn't talk about it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I started having friends that just, it's like Bigfoot friend.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They just wanted to, to see me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

At the farmer's market.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I'm like, so I can buy you a coconut.

[B]

And it's like, no, we just like you.

[A]

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's been really special.

[B]

It's been so nice that, you know, that I've seen you become. I actually think you were open to that long before you got to experience it. And it felt like it was the one thing that when we first started dating or maybe when probably when we first started living together that I was like, I made a note in my mind to go, don't let this part of you disappear in you for me. Yeah. Because I knew that it was a big difference for us and that it's essential like community and close, intimate friendships. Is saying this essential to my well being? And I had it before you. And then I moved away and moved in with you to la.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And I just remember that's why I was so desperate in those first two years to find my friends.

[A]

I understand what you're talking about.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's not to say. Yep, yep, yep.

[B]

And just to see you go then from. It just feels like I'm complimenting both of us and our love and relationship. That instead of me letting. And you letting that part of me disappear because it didn't fit in with your lifestyle. You were open enough and I was stubborn and strong enough to be like, this is a non negotiable. Yeah.

[A]

I was just talking to somebody again. Something that comes later in life. And when I was married the first time, I didn't know that. The healthiest and sort of the best thing you can say is I know you want to live in upstate New York. That doesn't work. That doesn't work for me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I hate that I'm disappointing you right now. Did I tell that story, by the way? First of all, I love, I love that you stood up. I didn't mean to change it and make it about me. I was relating.

[B]

No, I know. I know you were.

[A]

I think it's wonderful. And what I was going to say was, I think that the fact that we've gotten to a place where, Val, this is crude language, not like coarse. I just mean it's, it's basic. It's bricks, not mosaics. It's like Val 1. You know what I mean? Like, if there was a struggle, and I say that with huge joy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That there was a, an area. Now I'm thinking of it as, like, it's not a war, but, you know, a relationship is these two merging armies, and they're not fighting, they're kissing. And you start looking at the map and you go, like, which territories are unclear? I know this is a stupid metaphor, but I really see it in my mind, and mine was like, okay, I think we could move somewhere. I think we could mix this up a little bit, and I think I could try to come your way, like, yield. This sounds so grotesque, but. Well, the best thing I knew to do was to go like, I think you might be right. And the best thing you could do, which go like, I'm not gonna let this go because my heart, like, sort of saw the potential for it to break if you, if we were just like in a penthouse on Sunset Boulevard. You know what I mean?

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's, I don't just mean geographically. Living in LA is wonderful. I just mean, like, what that means.

[B]

Right. No, you did. And from the beginning, like, I, I, I think we recognized this as one of our fundamental differences early on. And you loved that about me. Like when we were long distance, you used to say, like, I love thinking about you on the deck with all your friends and, like, hanging out and it was playing music and, and, yeah, and so I think that you were hyper aware too, of, like, not stealing that from me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which but you could have done very accidentally if I had just let myself merge with you.

[A]

Well, that's what I find fascinating about relationships is there's this, like, subtle, there can be subtle assassinations.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And, and you can do it as a parent, too. You discourage certain behaviors and you don't even know you're doing it. You can do it in a friendship, you can do it in a relationship, and there's appropriate ways to kind of nudge and guide and go, like, you know, I don't, I don't know if I love that, you know, but like, there's these very unconscious, passive aggressive ways to, like, snuff out a part of another person.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And you're 10 years in. You go, like, wait, didn't I used to, Didn't I used to love the theater, you know?

[B]

Yeah. And not only that, but like. Like what we don't realize. This is the problem with enmeshment, where two. Two become one, you know, like that that old idea is because what you don't realize that like, you were drawn to that person not just because the parts of them that you liked and related to, but the parts of them that you didn't relate to.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Makes there some sort of tension that is like sexy and appealing and exotic and interesting and novel. And all these things that you lose when you are. When you. They just become like. Well, all of the parts of Dan that didn't apply to me fell off. And now we're just.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You don't want the same thing and.

[A]

You don't want to take them over.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You don't want to turn Topo Chico into Coca Cola.

[B]

Yeah, sure, if that helped you so.

[A]

But chica, I don't know that like. Oh, yeah, you were there.

[B]

Was I?

[A]

I don't want to. I still drink it. But somebody was like, the mineral content is like too high or something.

[B]

Oh, the. Also the metal. The heavy metal contact. I told you that.

[A]

No, Casey told me that and you were there.

[B]

Okay, but I knew that before.

[A]

Well, then you told me. I forgot. And then Casey told me. But she's a woman, so good luck pinning that on. I don't listen to women. I do, but they have to say it twice. Twice?

[B]

Because it has to be two different women for every man.

[A]

That's right. A man can not even tell me and I'll hear him. A woman has to tell me and then another woman.

[B]

All right, let's go to the mid world.

[A]

Perfect. Did you know it was 30 minutes on the dot?

[B]

No, I sensed it in my womanly body.

[A]

Oh my God. Well done. You know, I. Can I say before we go to the minerals, that one of them, my friend Ken, Ken Bishop, who He sometimes hears me lamenting about the ads. Like, I'm like, I don't know, you know, I sell ads. And he's like, don't. He texted me this beautiful text. He was like, don't feel bad. He's like, I found Magic Mind and Pym. And he listed all these things and he's like, I love these things.

[B]

That's nice.

[A]

And I got really excited because Modern Mammals is a sponsor on this one. Like legit.

[B]

True.

[A]

I know this is stupid. It sounds like I'm hawking it for real. My whole life I've been looking for a shampoo that I didn't I hate. So you're about to hear an ad from Modern Mammals and it's completely true. I, I love it. I know Kat, who cuts my hair was like, your, your hair is disgusting. And I was like, yeah, that's my secret. I never wash it because I always want it to look good and I want to have some sort of hold or body or whatever. And I found this thing and now I wash it every day, almost every day. I don't wash it every day, but when I want it to look perfect, I wash it completely flipped.

[B]

It's, it's been looking EC extra good.

[A]

These days, so don't skip them. I mean it. I love all the sponsors on this one. So check it, check it, check it, check it. Pardon the interruption, weirdos. I'm going to let you in on a little secret. That's true. I never used to wash my hair. I never, ever, ever, ever use shampoo. Until recently, I was getting my wonderful friend Kat who cuts my hair was like, pete, you have to clean your hair. But I didn't want to because whenever I used regular shampoo, it meant it was clean. Sure. But it also looked like, like it looked like dried out fluffy for two days unmanageable dried out thin brittle hay on my head that I just couldn't control and it looked terrible and I just had to deal with that. That all changed when I found Modern Mammals. The only shampoo that's like a non shampoo that somehow cleans your hair but leaves it perfect. I'm not just saying that. It leaves it absolutely perfect. Like a perfect hair day with structure. It's got that wave, it's got some of that natural moisture staying in your hair where you need it, staying in place and looking incredible after a wash. Now my hair looks like how it used to look when I would wait three, four, five days after a normal shampoo for it to come back to life, to come back to looking great. Now it looks great. Perfect hair day after I spent six seconds with it in the shower, which is incredible. My hair regimen is now the opposite of what it used be to to be. I used to not wash it when I wanted it to look perfect. Now I wash it when I want it to look perfect. Before a TV spot, before I taped my special, before I just go on a date with Val when I want it to look good. Now I use modern mammals. It is incredible. Over 40,000 guys have switched. You got to see the reviews. Everybody's mind is being blown. I can't believe more people don't know about it. Once you use it, I'm hooked for life. Absolutely. Never going back. And it's a small punk rock grassroots company. These are just regular guys who are fed up with shampoo frying their hair and set out to actually create new products to wash your hair with. New shampoo alternatives specifically for guys. They have bars, which I love, which is a low lather, fragrance free, plastic free way to do it. Or you can get bottles. It's like a magic gray mud that you run into your hair and then rinse it out. It's not like a normal shampoo and somehow it's like magic. It leaves it looking perfect every single time. Spend six seconds a day and have perfect hair. I found out because I saw it on Instagram and and then I reached out, I was like, we gotta work together. I am all in. Go to modernmammals.com use discount code weird for free shipping. That's Modern M A M m a l s.com discount code weird for free shipping. You gotta check it out for real. It's blowing me away. Also, we're brought to us by our friends at Element. 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Go to drinklmnt.com weird and get your free sample pack with any purchase. That's drinklmnt.com weird. Try their chocolate salt and try it hot. It's friggin incredible. And it makes me pee less at night. I don't know why. Something about the sodium. All right, all right. We're back.

[B]

And we're back.

[A]

If you despise your wounds, you'll despise the wounded.

[B]

It's beautiful. I really love that. I think it's just so.

[A]

It's one of the under reported meaning I always say underreported. But like I talk, I. I do in my writing a lot of times we talk about a course in miracles. And of course in miracles seems to get reduced down to like life. This reality is an illusion and all these sort of like the weird things, like the kind of strange things. But really there's this beautiful thing that I can't say enough because it's what I'm trying to do and it ties into if you despise your wounds, you'll despise the wounded. And it's like if you forgive other people's wounds, you'll forgive your own wounds. It's like you're. I think it's so interesting. My whole life growing up as an evangelical, my young man years, I. I just sort of literally idolized Jesus's forgiveness. It's like this guy's going around and forgiving.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I didn't necessarily what I think now. It's a very logical step then forgive.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like that seemed to be under in my branch of Christianity. Just the people I was exposed to. That didn't seem to be the message we took from it. It was more like we've got a golden ticket. We've got a golden ticket. We've got a golden ticket to me, make my day. And we'll look at other denominations and be like they're golden tickets. That's not real. No Like a Super bowl ticket that.

[B]

There'S fools because they're Presbyterian.

[A]

Exactly. Seventh Day Adventist. Good luck getting into the chocolate factory with that goo.

[B]

It doesn't even have a sheen to it. It's more of a mustard yellow.

[A]

Oh, my God, you're fun. Great riffs. Great riffs.

[B]

Great riffs. Good times.

[A]

Great oldies. Anyway, it's like. It's very clear and it feels very Father Greg Boyle to me. It feels very Richard Roy to me. But it's like you can't behold your own perfection until you see the perfection of everyone who's created like you, which is everyone.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which isn't necessarily their behavior, but, like, you see past it and you see that we're all in this together. And then you practice loving. And by the way, as I'm saying this, I'm like, it always comes up. My ego will go, well, you're not doing a very good job. You still get very mad when you sometimes talk to your parents. You'll hang up the phone, you'll just be very mad. It's like, why can't you forgive them? Well, it's a process. Fuck.

[B]

Also, why can't you forgive yourself in that moment? Forgive. If you can't forgive them, forgive yourself for not being able to forgive them.

[A]

You sound like Ken Wapnick, who teaches the course is incredible. He goes, be kind. And when you can't be kind, forgive yourself for not being kind. He goes, that's the whole thing.

[B]

Thing. Yeah. And whatever. Jacket. And Tara would say, Jack Kornfield and Tara Brock, whatever is on top, like you.

[A]

Oh, so.

[B]

So whatever you can be compassionate towards. So, okay, I can't be compassionate towards my parents? Then can I be compassionate towards myself? Myself for not. Okay, maybe I can't. I'm mad at myself just as much for not being able to be. So then what's on top of that? Can I be compassionate towards myself for wishing that I could be compassionate towards my parents? Yeah, like, anything. However, meeting yourself where you're at, basically.

[A]

But. But find the love, find the good, and, like, yeah.

[B]

Find your. This is where Tara Brock would say, like, get in touch with your truest intentions.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So that's where it's beneficial to be like. Like, okay, I can't forgive my parents. Well, that's because there's a wounded part of me that, you know, that needs their attention. Can I have compassion for that part of me? You know, like, however you can get it in. Because the beautiful thing about compassion is it. It's like a super grower It's a super bloomer where you, like, just plant one of those seeds and it's gonna come, it's gonna fill, and. And it changes the environment. It changes the whole ecosystem in your body.

[A]

You're virtually. You're virtually quoting the course right now. But it's like if you change your intent. So the course. The course in miracles is what I'm talking about. Says, like, everything is real. There's something new for it. It says everything is real to the. To the extent that it can help you remember your true self. And that is the only reality. You should afford anything. But it also will say every situation and person play. Anything that happens is an opportunity. But this. It's interesting because the brain. It really is heart work more than brain work. The brain wants to go like. You know, Matt and I went to a Walt. Maddie. Matt McCarthy and I, we were touring in Cleveland, and we went to this. Wahlburgers.

[B]

I don't know why that you did.

[A]

We went to Wahlburgers.

[B]

That's cute.

[A]

Yeah. They have impossible burgers, and I like that. I'm. I feel like such. I feel so exposed that you just saw me do. Do and say that. They have. They have, like. I meant it.

[B]

They have a. Yeah, they have an impossible burger. And I like that.

[A]

Yeah. I felt like a super dork when.

[B]

I said I loved it.

[A]

It was good.

[B]

I love. I love thinking of you and Maddie just like being best buds all over the street.

[A]

We are. We're just loving each other. Being there for. He's. He's like. I told him on this trip, I was like, I just admire you so very much. I said so very much. And I was like, loving people just feels so good. That's. That's. By the way, I'm not forgiving Matt. I'm loving him. But loving is just another kind of word for forgiveness. It's like another accepting and seeing and being out of your own way enough to recognize somebody for who they are and appreciate it instead of trying to bend it and change it. And I think we do that. That's what it means when I say we love each other. We allow each other to be. And we encourage. This is so basic, but we encourage the better angels of. Of one another.

[B]

That's right. And you see each other's like. It's so friend. It's so interesting to me because you are. You know, we started to say this. This the other day, but it's like one of. I think it's fair to say that your family. Why?

[A]

Well, what about your family?

[B]

While they had. Well, this is. I think this is the truth. Your family, while they had other strengths, did not have strength. Did not. One of those strengths was not intimacy. And my family, while they had their flaws, one of the strengths was intimacy. But what's interesting is that you're so good at intimacy with me, but I think you're learning the joy of being intimate with friends.

[A]

Can I also say yes? So we started this pod by saying, I'm so ooey gooey.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like some of your friends. And I say this with a lot of love. Overwhelm me. You know what I mean? So, like, that doesn't mean I'm going around palling up to everybody. And that doesn't mean that every day, even though we live in the small town, that I rock it and go to the coffee shop and just say hello to everybody. That's not true. I woke up today, and I just knew in my bones this is a me day. And it's one of the reasons I. I was laying on the bed when you got home. Just, I felt like I was in heaven. I really did. I heard people hammering, and I was like, it's like the Shire. Somebody, like, building a little fence. And I'm just kind of like. But it wasn't even the specificity of the location. I was hearing the leaves and the wind and just felt great. I did all my things.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I walked on the treadmill. I was careful about my diet. I did my course lesson, and then I lifted weights. So, of course. But I needed that day. And so I'm saying this, if anyone's listening and going, like, well, that's just not my style. Like, it's not my style either. You find the right balance.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Anyway, so we go into the Wahlbergers. They're not a sponsor.

[B]

I don't think we have to say that. I think it's known.

[A]

Hilarious. But I went in, this is Cleveland Wahlburgers, and the. The host, God love him. And I really mean that. There's this line. I'm watching Deadwood for the first time, and somebody says about this. This strange guy. They go, he, too, is the handiwork of God. And I was like, I like that. I like that little.

[B]

I like that.

[A]

And I thought, it's Garth Brooks. Think of it as a conversation. I like that.

[B]

Remember that? Oh, yeah, of course.

[A]

Think of it as a conversation.

[B]

If anybody just is like, I like that. How do I picture Val's dad? Like, I can picture.

[A]

Oh. Oh, no. That is so.

[B]

Is it too much. Should we cut it out? No.

[A]

It's the best. Best thing you've ever said. My dad is like Peter Griffin. Yeah, your dad is Garth Brooks in his first Instagram post or whatever.

[B]

My dad. That's exactly my dad as a conversation.

[A]

I like that. It's a little.

[B]

It's my dad. Watch that video.

[A]

Well, meaning.

[B]

Oh, my dad would watch that video and have no notes. I. Yeah, no notes. No idea why people thought it was.

[A]

A lot of people don't know. What. Don't have a good radar for Douche Joe. Chills.

[B]

Right?

[A]

But that's douche chills.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So anyway, this guy is, you know, the handiwork of God, but he. He was like a. I don't know. I. I won't describe him physically because that's not really relevant, but his posture and the way that he walked looked like he hated everybody. Yeah, he walked us in. He didn't say anything when we came in. We're just like two just walking in. And he just picked up too many and walked the whole length of the bar. He didn't say, follow us. Follow me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then he stopped and the bartender said something to him, and then he walked back. Didn't say anything to us. Just was like, I'm trying to think of somebody. He looks like, I don't know, like a very kind of slow slope. Slumpy Paul Giamatti, basically.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But young. And he walks back, doesn't say, sorry, I can't see in this section. Just turns around and walks. RD Lang has this great line in his act where he goes, when I was in high school, my teacher said, there's a disinterest in your walk. This kid had a disinterest in his walk. Like, every step was like you were getting a teenager out of bed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Let's go, son. Come on. And he was just. And he got to the table before us, put the minis down, and turned around and left. This is not me saying everyone needs to be excellent. Our waitress, by the way, was excellent. This guy was just like a challenge for me. And in that moment, instead of intellectualizing it and saying, this is what I'm saying. It's not a head thing, it's a heart thing. You just have to find the place in you that's, like, made out of love and kind of. And even. It's even too active to say, look at him through that place. That sounds like too much of an activity or like a gratitude journal. Yeah, it doesn't work if you. It might work. A little bit. If you go like, well, it's not a great job. You know, maybe he's having a rough day. Maybe his girlfriend or boyfriend just dumped him or whatever. That's like, that's like, bargain bin.

[B]

Sure, sure.

[A]

Bargain bin, love.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That top shelf is. You just go like, that's me. It's. It's. If I was him, I'd be him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If I was him, I'd be him. And there he is, and there we are, and you just kind of. It goes beyond words, but it all, of course, in miracles and other practices are trying to remind you that there's a truer place from which to look at the world. And it's not like somewhere else. It's like deeper in. And if you can just stop. Boy. I was on the treadmill today, and I brag, and I was watching a movie, and I was just like, I couldn't believe the, the voices in my head. She's not very attractive. Like a child. They couldn't get a prettier. Like, what? But, yeah, but the, the thing that the course says is just notice.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And try. And it's not even, stop. Just notice and try to wilt. Try to just like, like break up like an ice shelf.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Just melt. Stop.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. But the first thing is notice. And, and without judgment being like, wow, he's really going for it. Like, my judging mind is really going for it. What were you gonna say? Sorry.

[B]

Yes, I think that's exactly right. And also, just like, it's not personal. It's not personal to them. And meaning also, your thoughts aren't personal to you.

[A]

Like, that's right. It was a reflex. It was.

[B]

And it probably also had to do with. Instantly my mind was like, yeah, I think I get more judgmental if I'm exercising. Because you're, like, uncomfortable and you don't.

[A]

You're going for it. This is the risk.

[B]

And you don't want to. You're just. Yeah. You're like, you're a little bit miserable, and so you're just kind of outsourcing that onto people.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Also, I know, like, I did a yin yoga class with my mom. It was so magical, by the way. We didn't even talk about this, but I go to this yin yoga class that is, like, the most feminine possible space. I, I. You couldn't make it more feminine if you tried. Even though there's men in there, too. But it's. Yin yoga is feminine. Yen is feminine, and the Yin Yang.

[A]

And, And it's there's yin Yang Yin.

[B]

There's what?

[A]

Shouldn't it be?

[B]

It's yin Yang and. Oh, yin is the feminine and yang is. Yeah.

[A]

Yin, Yin yoga.

[B]

What am I saying? Yen Yin yin. Am I still saying yen?

[A]

I'm just enjoying this. Like if this was a scene in a movie, I'd be like, I love that part where they're like, yen Yin. Yin Yin yoga.

[B]

Yin yoga.

[A]

Y I N Yoga yoga.

[B]

Yin yoga.

[A]

Yin yoga.

[B]

Yeah, Yin yoga.

[A]

I was thinking of Yen Sushi, which is by the grocery store.

[B]

Okay, let's go get that sushi. Next time we're in la, remember that sushi between an Albertsons and a coffee bean and some of the best sushi of our life.

[A]

Love that sush.

[B]

Okay. Anyway, so yin yoga.

[A]

Sorry.

[B]

No, no.

[A]

And sorry. Go on, please.

[B]

So it's restorative. So you do like maybe four poses in like an hour and you're just holding them and it's so beautiful. And I was. I took my mom. So my mom was in the room. Our friend Genevieve, who's like my soul mate. Friend.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And Ivardula. So I was in already this very light filled room in this very feminine.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Space with this feminine teacher. And like my mother and my doula and one of my dearest friends was there.

[A]

I is for femininity. What A man who's goat from the waist down with a pan flute and chest hair. And he's a redhead.

[B]

Yep. Yeah. I'm picturing it.

[A]

She's that for women.

[B]

Yeah. She's that simple. Like a nymph. Like. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, and we. She said something really beautiful, which I knew this, like your hip hips hold your emotions. So we were doing like hip stretches and she, she beautifully. The teacher did it more articulately than I'll be able to, but she was like. And this is often where we store our emotions. So if you notice any emotions coming up or any unusual thoughts or even any usual thoughts, like these repetitive kind of stories that we tell ourselves. She's like, that makes sense. Just. Just notice it and let it go. And I like, so there is a potential that you're doing the treadmill and like your hip flexors are going and that's how your pain releases is through these judgmental thoughts. It doesn't really matter the source of it. It's just remembering it's not permanent and it's not personal. That's Ruth King.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

It's not. There's a third one.

[A]

Personal.

[B]

It's not permanent.

[A]

Personal or it's not Very professional.

[B]

Yeah. What is it?

[A]

Personal? Personal, permanent.

[B]

I can't remember. Shoot. But there's another one. That's great. And. And you can just let it go. Like you can. You just don't have to identify with it. Because once you go, ah, I'm so judgmental. I'm a piece of.

[A]

It has me.

[B]

Or you'll go, like, I. I'm doing all this. Practice, practice this. You know, Practicing. How come I can't do it? I'm not get, like, what good is that doing anything?

[A]

I'll tell you what good it does from the point of view of the course. The course would say we want to be angry, even at ourselves.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We want people to treat us unfairly. Unconsciously, we want to. When things go wrong, we sort of unconsciously love it because at least it means we're really separate.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because we're. Our big. Our ego's biggest fear is that it's going to disappear into the heart of God and lose its specialness. So it will take special love. That's its preference. Op, you're so great. But it'll take special hate.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Op, you piece of shit. You just thought that kid should have been somewhat more attractive. Like, what the fuck is wrong with you? At least the course is. I'm pretty sure where we get, do you want to be right or happy? I don't know if it's the first one that said it. I think it might be, but that's. That's what's going on there. It's like, do you want to be separate or do you want to be happy?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I believe that. And also from a purely, like, psychological standpoint, that judgmental voice is a protector. And so the last thing it wants is to let whatever feelings it's protecting come out. And. And, like, it's like, it's like asking it to take its armor off and reveal the soft, squishy.

[A]

That's right. Yeah. Well, the course would say it's another way of saying the same thing. It's just. It is a little bit fiercer language. But it would be like, you would forgive your parents or whoever it is that. That is particularly triggering to you. But then who would you be? Sometimes I notice that I will call home or call a challenging friend or something if I just kind of feel like I'm starting to vanish because I'd rather have those thoughts of, like, you, dude, you. Because then you know at least how to feel like. I felt that way when I was. The times in my life have been heartbroken there's no doubt that you're. That you exist.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

It's like Leela.

[B]

Well, Leela just did. Because I'm looking at that as like, certain parts of you are asking for attention too. So. And Leela did this yesterday at the. In the pool, you guys, Leela swam for the first time yesterday with the best summer solstice. We got chickens. June, she named the other chickens.

[A]

By the way, she named one of the chickens Bowie.

[B]

Bowie. And he has Bowie's hair and that. Or she. And then the other chickens, she named in there Baki and B. So we have Bowie, Baki, and Bee now. And Smoke. We're fostering Smoke. And so we got chickens. And she learned to swim. And we roasted hot dogs on the campfire. It was lovely. Anyway, so we're having this perfect day, and I. But I'm chatting with my friend Ivana, who's there with her kid, and Leela, like, grabbed my shoe, and I was like, don't throw my shoe in the pool. She, like, went to throw it in. I was like, leela, do not throw my shoe in the pool. And she like, just threw it in. And I was like, leela, please listen to me. Don't do that. And I put it back. And then like two minutes later, she, like, looked at me again and just threw my shoe in. And I went, what are you trying to tell me? Because this isn't like you to just.

[A]

Do you remember your better angels?

[B]

Yeah. I was like, you must be trying to communicate something to me. And I was like, what is it that you want to say to me? And she was like, hi, mama. And I was like, do you want my attention? And she's like, yeah. And so I was like, okay, next time just be like, I need your attention.

[A]

What a beautiful, beautiful moment.

[B]

But we have parts of us that are doing that at all times now.

[A]

The people that are the most triggering to me, young, young people, you know.

[B]

People we know, you know, the youth.

[A]

The youths of today, like me, you know, hanging at skate parks, eating Taco Bell. I just mean grown ups that I know.

[B]

Yeah. It's exhausting.

[A]

I just hate. I. I have a hard time when other people, like over share, do all the things I do over share or going for attention. And I'm just like, what's this idiot?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm like, somebody said that of somebody who's sort of, you know, that I. That I don't open my heart to as naturally as other people. And they were like, yeah, your relationship to them is your relationship to that part of you that is that way, you should just use them as a way to love that part of you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yep. And I was like, I know.

[B]

When he.

[A]

Master class.

[B]

When our friend said that master class about that person too, I was like, yep, that's 100% true.

[A]

Beautiful. I wanted to share my one tip.

[B]

No.

[A]

It's so silly. So I've been trying to write this movie script for a long time, and I'm really ripping through it. And thanks to Ryan Holiday, who told me to read the War of Art by Steven Pressfield. I listened to it twice, actually, and it really. It's not. It's not a book you can summarize because it's one of those. It's like books that help you quit a behavior. It, like, kind of lulls you into it. But it basically, if I were to summarize it, it would be like, look, writers just get in the seat. That's the hardest part. You just got to do it. You got there. There's a quote in it where they go. They're asking some famous. This writer, do you write when you're inspired or do you write on a schedule? And he says, I only write when I'm inspired. Luckily, I'm inspired every morning at 9am I was like, that's it. But hearing someone, because I listened to it as an audiobook, listening to that was inspiring. And then this is bizarre. But, like, I watched. I've always been interested in those of you that listen. Nicotine is like an interesting chemical for me personally. They say it has some sort of add stuff, blah, blah, bloopy. So I was watching some Youtubies, some, you know, doctor types talking about it, and I was sort of surprised that they were saying something that I hadn't heard. So little backstory. And we're almost done. I chewed nicotine gum at it, I think, when I was doing. Not crashing.

[B]

But I mean, it's been through.

[A]

When I wrote my book.

[B]

Definitely when you wrote your book, but it's been on and off. I mean, you were sat in that chair recently and had an, you know, like a. I. I, like, quit. I was on it again and I quit.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Here at the pod.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Because when I was doing the Pradeep's.

[B]

TV show, that's what it was.

[A]

I was sick.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was like, really, really sick. And brain fog up the wazoo. So I asked somebody to get me some Nicorette and I just chewed it. I barely noticed, but I was chewing a ton of it. And Then I was.

[B]

That's what it was.

[A]

And then when I left, left Toronto, I just threw it away and I got to the airport and I wanted to murder people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was like, that's when I sat right here. And I was like, it. Here's underreported again. It's underreported. It is a mood. Elevating it helps you think all these different things. It elevates your heart rate. So I kind of say it's like jogging, but you're sitting still. But it's the same thing as like getting up and jumping up and down a few times. But people don't talk about how horrible it is to go off it. So I was like, this shit, I'm out. Then I watched this guy on YouTube talking about how he does between 4 and 8 milligrams of nicotine a day, only when he's working, only when he's writing. And I was like, okay, I don't know, but I'm gonna try this. I got the 2 milligram Nicorette I put in a kitchen safe so I could lock it when I was done. It's a timer safe. Turns out I don't even need it. But when I sit down and I'm looking at the script, it has to be open on the screen. And it's the only time I'll do it, but I'll give myself one, maybe two pieces of this two milligram gum. So a very, very negligible, negligible amount. And I gotta say real fast, it's fucking game changer for me. Because what it is is this association. It's made me associate this reward with writing. So I, as you know, famously never write on airplanes. I'm just too tall. The seat in front of me reclines. There's no room. It sucks. But the past two, three airplanes I've been on, I'm ripping through five, six pages of my script because I want to chew the gum. And I'm like making this deal with this part of me where I'm like, I know you like it, but if you want it, you have to write. And then the more interestingly, when I was doing shows, I didn't chew it. So there was like a four day span there where I wasn't chewing it, but at so small a dose that I didn't have any withdrawal. And I was like, this is fucking working for me. So I don't know. I've always been interested in why, like, Hemingway and all these writers smoke. Stephen King is a huge Nicotine person. And I was like, yeah. Something about it I said to you the other day, I finished writing ago. Nicotine agrees with me. It just makes my fingers dance on the keyboard, and I get really excited. I actually overwrite. I'll write so much that I have to go back and, like, clean it up. Because I could tell I was almost in a frenzy.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like, I can make these people say anything. Well, he should be like this and this. I have to go back, still on nicotine, and take it out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I wanted to share that for many reasons. The war of art was the beginning. And then I'm very interested in marrying an addictive substance with an activity that you don't want to do. But isn't that what our bodies do? You work out and it gives you endorphins. You eat well and it gives you other rushes. And I was like, well, writing sucks. You sit at your keyboard and bleed, right? Well, not today, motherfucker. Yeah, I'm gonna give myself this only when writing treat. It doesn't have to be nicotine for me. That's always worked. But I wanted to share this sort of, like, hack that I was like, fuck, this is really making a difference. I broke page, like, 80 on this.

[B]

Thing, and it seems like you could do it with coffee. Coffee. You could even.

[A]

I mean, stimulants.

[B]

Yeah. But, like, even having just positive associations with sitting down and writing, this is not new information. This has been documented that every time you sit down. If you try to sit down around the same time every day, you light the same candle, you sit in the same spot.

[A]

Stephen's book, too.

[B]

You open the window, you blanket.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Like, do I. That's why I. It's really important to me, the space that I write in, because it has to be, like, a space that I can't wait. When I think about my desk in my office, it feels like the coziest corner of the world to me. And I always have a blanket, and I always have music on that I love. And I have something warm to drink, and I have the windows open, and I light a candle. And it's like all of that works towards making me feel like I'm climbing into something that I want to do. So. Yeah. Having just in. In general, any positive association?

[A]

Well, it's not a plug, but Magic Mind is part of that for me. Coffee is a part of that for me. Yeah, but, like, something about. For me, I think there's other people that wouldn't like it, but for me, I'm like, any tip. Obviously, Magic Mind is a huge one as well.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And Alpha Brain. But this one is the new. The new one in the stable, and I'm very excited about it.

[B]

So. Nick, nicotine. Give it a try.

[A]

I don't mean cigarettes. I mean.

[B]

No, I know.

[A]

Benign way. And I did a lot of research. I won't bore people. I. I won't bore people. Great chemical. Great chemical.

[B]

Yeah. All right. All right, let's do it.

[A]

We're out of here.

[B]

I'm going to the farmer's market. Jealous. Just kidding. I shouldn't have said that.

[A]

That's hilarious. I think a lot of people, Val, are like, no, no, not jealous. A lot of people are like, no, I live in Portland and I'm going to a barcade. That's what I'm doing.

[B]

I'm in Brooklyn, and I'm gonna go, like, have drinks on a barge, which was one of my favorite things to do as. Yeah.

[A]

Or I'm gonna go cow tipping. We just watched Tommy Boy.

[B]

Yeah. All right, all right. All right, dear ones, go ahead and keep it crispy.