We Made It Weird #153

Summary

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Podcast Summary: You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes

Episode: We Made It Weird #153
Date: September 29, 2023
Host: Pete Holmes
Guests/Co-host: Valerie (Pete’s wife and frequent collaborator)

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Overview

This episode is a classic installment of Pete’s freewheeling Friday “We Made It Weird” series—featuring Pete and his wife, Valerie, riffing on daily life, cultural observations, and personal quirks. The main throughline of this conversation revolves around our modern dopamine-seeking habits, the impact of social media and technology on creativity and mental health, and how little acts of mindfulness or creativity can recalibrate our overstimulated brains. It’s a mixture of silly riffing, quirky deep dives, and thoughtful introspection delivered in Pete’s trademark blend of sincerity and high-spirited oddness.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The "Weirdness" of Everyday Routines

• Settling Into the Mud Room (00:27 – 01:38): Pete reflects on how people skip “pointless” intros nowadays, but sees those preambles as a mudroom—a chance to kick off your shoes and settle into presence. He encourages listeners to enjoy wandering, unfocused conversation as its own pleasure.
  • Quote: “In this point-obsessed culture, we're losing touch to these things that don't have a point... they're little mud rooms where you can just take your shoes off and settle into the fact that you're listening to a podcast.” (00:27)

2. Family Riffs: Bodily Humor & Social Permission

• Mouth Fart Jokes (06:13 – 07:04): Pete and Val joke about habitual mouth/fake farts and family tolerance for silly bodily noises. Pete shares he sometimes does these even in front of strangers, underlining how familial weirdness sometimes seeps into public.
• “Frog Mouth” and Pursed Lips (08:23): They riff on funny facial expressions, tiny pursed lips, and how novels often mention them, wondering how often that actually happens in real life.

3. Observations on Acting and Authenticity

• Michael Caine on Acting (09:00 – 13:05): Pete recounts watching a Michael Caine acting masterclass and the lesson that truly natural acting means the rehearsal shouldn’t look different from a real conversation—otherwise, you’re “doing it wrong.”
  • Quote: “If you're rehearsing a scene and the scene is just a conversation, and the director comes up to you and goes, ‘Oh, sorry, you're rehearsing?’ Then you're doing it wrong. You're doing it wrong.” (09:49)
• Billy Crudup & Meryl Streep (12:04): Valerie recalls listening to a podcast where Billy Crudup describes how Meryl Streep sometimes seamlessly “blends” acting and conversation, causing confusion on set—a real-life illustration of Caine’s insight.

4. Deep-Dive Goof: "Lips Are Cheeks Trying to Take Over"

• Extended Riff on Lips and Cheeks (16:09 – 18:48): Pete crafts a theory that lips are just the inside of the mouth trying to “take over the face”—a full-on comedic riff echoing the style of improv set-list games.
  • Quote: “Lips are just the inside of your mouth kind of splashing out a little bit onto your face… it’s trying to be the whole face. Like some lunatic dictator in the cheek country.” (16:23)
• They turn even dental headgear and childhood accessory envy into a comedic examination of “ugly chic”—how kids want glasses, braces, or retainers as identity markers—even when they’re not conventionally attractive (20:07 – 24:57).

5. “Ugly Chic,” Fashion, and FOMO

• Retainers, Braces, Crocs, and Fashion (22:07 – 27:44): The conversation expands to “making ugly things cool” (like Crocs and Uggs), and how marketing and fashion manipulate group psychology—making even silly trends highly desirable.
  • Quote: “You lean into the ugly so far that it Became cool. And that's Crocs.” (23:14)

6. Social Media, Dopamine, and the “Want Monster”

• Digital Detox & The Brain’s Pace (27:44 – 39:00): Val shares her plan for a digital detox—no Instagram or alcohol for October—and discusses the book Digital Detox. They analyze how FOMO (fear of missing out) and the slot machine structure of social media keep people compulsively engaged for validation and community.
  • Quote (Val, on Instagram): “I'm giving my creative energy away to Instagram. And I'm giving degrees of my self-worth to Instagram.” (35:29)
  • Pete underscores the slot machine analogy: “Slot machines will do false wins. You pay a dollar and you won fifty cents—you lost fifty cents, but they mask it as a win.” (34:29)
• Creativity Hijacked by Cheap Dopamine (35:43): They explore how social apps can co-opt creative restlessness, delivering instant validation instead of encouraging making something original.

7. Mindfulness, Presence, and Slower Pleasures

• Reading, Mindfulness, Breaking the Hamster Wheel (55:41 – 59:11): Val describes resisting the urge to rush through a novel, recognizing her “dopamine-brat” brain was primed for speed from phone scrolling. Pete compares modern minds to “washing machines full of confetti,” overwhelmed with information.
• The Value of Intros, Mud Rooms, and Chopping Wood (67:03 – 68:29): Pete reflects on slow, “pointless” activities—chopping wood, prepping dinner, or long podcast intros. These are restorative, analog pleasures that give space for the mind to settle. He references Thich Nhat Hanh’s mindfulness advice: be present for each task, or you risk missing your whole life.
  • Quote: “If you're thinking about a juicy peach you’re going to eat after the dishes, chances are when you're eating the peach, you won’t be thinking about the peach. And next thing you know, you missed your entire life.” (60:03)

8. Parenting, Modeling Behavior, and Self-Honesty

• Kids Want What We Model (61:54 – 65:06): They share a story of their daughter Leela asking for a phone, mirroring the adults’ behaviors. Valerie realizes she holds her daughter to a higher standard than herself and resolves to be more present—inviting her child to help keep her accountable.

9. “Want Monster,” Dopamine Loops, and Self-Compassion

• Dopamine Chasing and Everyday Addiction (53:09 – 54:13): Cheap dopamine from phones or sugar primes the “want monster”—making boring but necessary activities (like chores) feel much harder. Pete likens consuming fun content in the morning to “eating an Oreo for breakfast” and expecting to want salad at lunch.
• Self-Compassionate Change (71:09): Valerie’s therapist offers a gentle approach: don’t “should” yourself; experiment gently, e.g. “What if I meditated right now—would that offer me anything?” They encourage listeners to be gentle as they break cycles.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On presence and slow pleasures:
  “The introduction to the book, which isn't the point, is settling... it's like when you charge an electric car. The intro isn’t the point, but it turns out that... the confetti is, it’s all just points. And we’re not designed to hold on to all those points.” — Pete (58:02)

• On creative restlessness:
  “That restlessness is connected to creativity. I'm restless, so I’m gonna pick up my phone… or I could use that restlessness as fuel to create something.” — Val (37:35)

• On the “dopamine-brat” effect:
  “My want monster is like, more fun… I made a brat in my body. I primed a brat. I woke them up first thing and was like, hey, do you want to be a brat all day?” — Val (54:13)

• On technology, advertisement, and fulfillment:
  “The reason we shouldn't want that [hyper-targeted ads] is because the opposite is being fulfilled.” — Pete (69:05)

• On mindful parenting:
  “It was a moment for me where I was like, wait. I need to totally change here because I'm having higher standards for my 5-year-old than I'm having for myself.” — Val (63:00)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 00:27–01:38: Pete’s reflection on podcast structure, presence, and gratitude
• 09:00–13:05: Deconstructing Michael Caine’s acting advice and authentic conversation
• 16:09–18:48: Pete’s comic riff: “lips are just cheeks trying to take over the face”
• 22:07–27:44: Ugly chic, retainers, braces, Crocs, and the invention of “coolness”
• 27:44–39:00: Digital detox, FOMO, and the dopamine economy of social media
• 55:41–59:11: Val on breaking the brain’s “dopamine hamster wheel” via reading, slowness
• 60:03–60:41: Thich Nhat Hanh and living in the moment, even with “pointless” tasks
• 61:54–65:06: Parenting, modeling healthy habits, and holding oneself to a higher standard
• 66:23–69:56: On fulfillment vs. endless seeking, gentle approaches to change

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Tone & Style

Loose, unscripted, funny, sometimes irreverent but always warm and introspective—typical of Pete and Val’s energy. They balance silly riffs (mouth farts, “frog mouth,” lips-as-inside-mouth) with sincere discussion of mindfulness, addiction, parenting, and the longing for real, slow, analog connection.

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a prime example of how Pete (and Val) transform everyday subjects into playful, thoughtful explorations of the human mind. The central theme—our tangled relationship with technology, dopamine, and real presence—emerges organically through digression, laughter, and vulnerability. It’s a restorative listen for anyone feeling overwhelmed by modern life, with plenty of quotable “weird” moments along the way.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[A]

You made it weird. You made it weird.

[B]

You made it weird.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

You made it weird. Made it weird. Yes, you did. Made it weird. You made it weird with Pete Holmes.

[A]

What's happening, weirdos? Wow.

[B]

Welcome to. Welcome to the program. I'm real nuts in the first 20. Real nuts.

[A]

What else is new?

[B]

I'm gonna be real nuts if we. The first 20. We talk a lot about this, the structure that the brain needs to actually enjoy something. Instead of looking at this podcast, I invite everybody listening to this podcast. First of all, thank you. I joke around about this podcast not being as popular as Smartless or whatever, but yes, I'm so grateful that anyone is listening. I mean that so sincerely. It's a phenomenon. Thank you for being here. We also talk about how, like introductions to books and those moments, those preambles before we get to the point, in this point obsessed culture, we're losing touch to these things that don't have a point. They're just like little foyers into the house. They're little mud rooms where you can just take your shoes off and settle into the fact that. That you're listening to this podcast. So the 20 minutes, I think is very funny. And it's also an invitation to just settle in, settle in, get a cup of tea, kick your shoes off. And. And that's part of the conversation. As always. I. I just loved talking with you and feel so much more centered and in my body and happy.

[A]

Yay.

[B]

As a result of this convo. So thank you everybody. That's my hope for you as well.

[A]

Con.

[B]

Couple exciting things. My. My. My podcast special, my Netflix special comes out on 1024. 1024.

[A]

I didn't even know the exact date.

[B]

Yeah, it's called I am not for everyone. So please watch means so much. And. And the people that like the show, I. I think you'll really like it. And I'm also on tour doing a different hour. It's called the Not Feeling it tour. We Salt Lake City sold out, which is awesome. Bloomington, Indiana is on sale in Chicago, Illinois, I think is on sale. And some other dates will be added, all on PeteHomes.com and as we always say, the show is brought to us by Pete's Picks, which means things I actually use and love. It's not phony. Balone. These are things that are making a difference in our life that I enjoy. And if you want to support the show, get one. Or get one for a friend. Maybe Katie also, you guys know this by now. We only do ads for things that I actually use and actually love. This first one is no exception. It's Bird dogs. I was just going for a swim. That's right, it's fall. But I'm still swimming cause I'm a wim hof fella. And Bird dogs are the best looking, best feeling shorts and swim trunks that I've ever owned. Bird dogs. I've never been a short guy. Even though I love swimming, I hate swim trunks. But Bird dogs has literally changed all of that throughout the entire summer and now bleeding into the fall. I love liberating my legs and getting in the water as often as possible. And thanks to my ba dogs, I can do so while feeling totally comfortable and looking really good. Bird dogs make you look good. They even make khaki stretch shorts that are designed to fit slimmer through the thigh and the leg, giving you a truly sculpted look. Bird dogs do the exact same thing like Lululemon does, but they fit way better. And let's be honest, they look better and it's not lululemon and they're not stiff restricting cotton. Bird dogs are fixing that issue by inventing a cloud knit fabric that looks just just like khaki but stretches so you get a way slimmer fit without having to sacrifice movement. And Bird Dog uses. Bird dogs uses anti stink sweat wicking fabric that keeps you cool and dry all day long. So go to birddogs.com weird for a free Yeti style tumbler, which is actually quite excellent. I use it every day. That's birddogs.com weird and get a free Yeti styler style tumbler. You won't want to take your bird dogs off, we promise you. We are also brought to us by our good friends at Magic Mind. You guys know I'm always talking about Magic Mind. It's legit. I'm so into it. It's absolutely changed my life. It's changed my approach to creativity, to work to answering emails honestly, just anytime I want to simultaneously relax, which is the adaptogens in Magic Mind, but also give myself an energy boost and a focus and a creativity and a flow state boost, which is the new atropics. And it also has about 55 milligrams of caffeine in there from Matcha. So it's got that. It's hard to explain. It's like both relaxing and stimulating, putting you in the perfect state to get things done. They call it Creator Aid, like athlete type Gatorade. We now have creator aid. It's a mix of 12 functional ingredients. Like I said, matcha nootropics that make you focus and adaptogens that help you fight off stress. You don't get wired, you get dialed in. Getting 30% more stuff done, on average, that's five to seven hours of 30 por. 30% more productivity after drinking helps fight out procrastination, brain fog, fatigue, and some ADD symptoms. Getting you into a flow state and after three to seven days of continuous use gets easier to get into that flow state. So it gets better the more you use it. I'm always giving it to the guests, so many of them become subscribers. So I want them to drink it because it makes the episodes better. Just brings you life, vitality, creativity, flow energy. It's incredible. And we have an awesome offer for weirdos from our friends at Magic Mind. All you have to do is go to Magic Mind co slash weird and use discount code weird for a limited 20% off your first order. That's Magic Mind Co slash weird and use promo code weird for a limited 20% off your first order. Support your brain, support your creativity and your focus and your flow, and support this show. All right, everybody. Enjoy the return of Craig Ferguson. It's so fun. Check out Joy, a podcast available now. Hope to see you on the road. Get into it. All right, everybody, thanks for being here. Mean that very, very sincerely.

[A]

Yeah. And get into it.

[B]

Oh, no. I'm so sorry. I can't stop. To bring everybody up to speed. I can't stop doing little farts with my mouth. I can't.

[A]

It's been happening all morning.

[B]

I. Yeah, you're stuck.

[A]

I'm stuck in a fart loop.

[B]

When we burp in our house. We. Have. We talked about this. Is. Is this.

[A]

I think we've mentioned this on the.

[B]

Pot, but if it's like. And then you go, oh, yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's. That's fair game. And even Leela, nobody's mad at that.

[A]

Yeah, no one's mad at that. That's funny.

[B]

And I also do it alone.

[A]

Although we do. We do do it even, like now we do it just like. Because that's what you do. Like, nobody acknowledges it when.

[B]

No, no, it's special or weird. And I've done it in front of strangers. Yeah, like, we had a guy, like, wet vacuing our. Our garbage disposal. And I'll just walk by and be like, oh, yeah. I'm just like, what? What is life?

[A]

He gets it. Come on.

[B]

He gets it.

[A]

I really wish those blinds were open.

[B]

I'll open them.

[A]

I can open it.

[B]

Yeah, you open it.

[A]

It's easier for me. You're like, okay, here. He's doing it. Thank you. I just. I. It really matters. Our little fort, our cushion for it is going to fall all.

[B]

Yay.

[A]

Thank you. Oh, my God, what a difference it makes. You know, it just occurred to me that you don't have the view. When we do this podcast.

[B]

I give it to you.

[A]

You give me the view. Oh, my God. That is just for me, because you're my fai. Your mouth. Oh, my God. I'm gonna try to.

[B]

I look like a frog or something.

[A]

You're.

[B]

Do I look like a frog? Like, I'm trying to have ownership over it because I look like a frog. Like, get ahead of it.

[A]

I know. I know what. I know.

[B]

I know what I look like. I'm looking like a frog. That's funny, but also kind of cute.

[A]

But your mouth is like.

[B]

It was.

[A]

It was smaller than I've ever seen it. Like, you've, like. You made it, like, tiny.

[B]

A purse. A purse. Little button.

[A]

How often in a novel do they talk about pursed lips? And how often in reality does it happen?

[B]

Very good. I just watched Chris sent me. Michael K. Michael Kane.

[A]

Michael Kane. Some people just want to watch the world burn.

[B]

Some people just want to watch the world.

[A]

My cocaine.

[B]

Teaching about acting. Yeah, it's very Good. It's on YouTube.com.net.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he's teaching a bunch of people how to act, and it reminded me. It's nice. There's, like, good tips in it. And also he has, like, these British actors do scenes, and then he'll be like, all right, do it again. But remember, the camera is your best mate. Yeah, don't do so much. And then they do it again, and it's, like, exactly the same.

[A]

And you're like, oh, wow. So you get to watch them try it.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

I don't think I did mention Michael Caine.

[B]

Yeah. Why did I mention this? Oh, because he says, purse lips. Thank you. Oh, because he says. He points it out. He's like, in movies and tv, people are always going like, well, he says this brilliant thing. He goes, if you're rehearsing a scene and the scene is just a conversation, and the ad or the director comes up to you and goes, oh, sorry, you're rehearsing. Then you're doing it wrong. You're doing it.

[A]

Oh, my God, I just heard this.

[B]

What?

[A]

Well, finish.

[B]

Michael K. Michael K. Well, they. They should just come up and join the conversation. But why does acting look so much like acting? Okay, like, well, I need to Talk to you like, it's like you're cheating out. You're, like, finding your light. It's all this bullshit.

[A]

Who was saying this? It was on another podcast that I listened to.

[B]

Oh, bleep that. Bleep it.

[A]

Which means it was either beep or beep or.

[B]

Or needs a friend or those delightful boys at B plus or. Oh, I just can't get enough of. I can't think of any other ones. You listen to my Beep Brought a porno.

[A]

Yeah, but whoever it was, had worked with. With. Oh, it was Smart List, I think, because. Because it was Billy Crudup.

[B]

I'm just kidding.

[A]

I'm pretty sure it was Billy Crudup on Smart List talking about working with Meryl Streep.

[B]

That's fair. They can just get Billy Crud up.

[A]

Oh, my God. Just listen to the story. It's not. It's not a.

[B]

It's not a competition.

[A]

It's not a competition.

[B]

All right. Just saying. I'm not friends with Crudup.

[A]

It's fine. All these people are listening.

[B]

That's fair.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I want to thank you.

[A]

You don't get this from Jason Bateman. Actually, you do get that in that show.

[B]

So Billy.

[A]

But.

[B]

And then Will Arnett's like.

[A]

That'S great.

[B]

And then who's the other one?

[A]

Sean Hayes.

[B]

Don't tell me. I don't want to know. Okay, so Sean P. Diddy Hay.

[A]

Now I can't think of what P. Did. His last name is Combs. Oh, right. So he. He was saying that he. When he works with Meryl. Meryl Streep. They. They kept doing that where it was like, she would talk. She would be, like, talking, you know? God, I wish I could think of the example, but it would be something like, she's like, I'm. I'm late for the meeting. And they're like, you have a meeting after this? And she's like, no, that's my line. And then she would, you know, like, oh, my God. It literally kept happening to everyone. Or she started singing, I think, at one point or something, and they were like, that was beautiful. She's like, no, I'm supposed to do that.

[B]

That is. Michael Kine actually mentions Meryl Streep. And this is, like, years and years, like, decades ago. It's one of the coolest things I've ever seen. I. I recommend watching a YouTube. Michael. Michael Kine teaches acting. Teaches film acting.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And it was really, really fun. But it also just reminded me of, like, when we were doing HBO'S crashers and stuff. Most actors, myself included, you know, I'm guilty. Guilty of this as well. But it's like you go in and you do it the way you do it. And someone's like, can you just try and remember that you're feeling this way? And then they take two and they just do it exactly the same. And you're like.

[A]

Is it the same or is it like a very subtle.

[B]

It could be subtle. What? See, I'm a like a language guy. I'm all about, like, how you say it. There's other things going on, other choices being made. But, like, if people are like, it's the scene from Alfie, like, let me just tell you, this bear is crazy. She loves to run her nails down me back. Okay. She's got two husbands before both dead. And I have a guess on how they died. Right? Like, they she them to death, I guess, is the implication.

[A]

Is this, like, verbatim?

[B]

I've never seen Alfie very close.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And apparent. Did Michael Kyne play Alfie?

[A]

No. Well, maybe he was the original.

[B]

Or Jude Law. You're thinking Judy Law.

[A]

I'm always thinking about Jude Law.

[B]

Jude Law looks like you could put him on toast and just, like, lightly butter him. Like, he'd spread with the lightest pressure from a butter knife.

[A]

Yeah. And spread him and it's like golden brown.

[B]

Just done doing movies. He doesn't mind. It's fine. Eat me anyway. And then they go like, just. It's. You're talking to your best mate. He'll be like, all right, this guy is right. And I'm like, oh, man. It's just hard when Michael Caine wants you to do it. Like Michael Cain would do it. Let me ask you this.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Lips.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Colon. What's going on with lips? We love lips. People are all, I feel like the cat's out of the bag with teeth being bones. You can see. Like, there was a time when that was like a hot observation.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We're on the train. Just stay on the train. It's a dining car. Do you want some warm carrots?

[A]

So I'm just saying, if you ever did have a stroke, it would take me a while to know.

[B]

That is so funny.

[A]

I would not know. Right.

[B]

Known. We could have saved him. Yeah, didn't you? Wasn't it a clue when he said, we're on the dining car. Do you want some warm carrot?

[A]

Just listen to the first 20 minutes of any of our podcasts and you will understand.

[B]

True facts. True facts.

[A]

All right, so teeth are Bones that.

[B]

We can see, like, as a joke meteorologist. There's been a longstanding cold front of people going, like, they're just bones. Like, I. It's an interesting thing, an observation like, that comes in, and there is a time when it's new, and then everyone starts doing it. I swear, I've been watching it. It shows up in movies. Now it's in TV shows. Like, sure, I've seen it everywhere. And I remember Chris Thayer was the first person I saw, too, that said, I'm just polishing my bones so people.

[A]

Will like me while I'm here.

[B]

And I was like, oh, wow, what a great observation. Now you see it in, like, a commercial. Someone's like, and they're just my bones.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm like, what the fuck happened? You can watch jokes seep into the culture. Here's the next one. Because I'm. I read futures. Oil futures. I don't know what oil futures are, so I say that I read oil futures.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

Lips are just the inside of your mouth kind of splashing out a little bit onto your face. And like, it's your cheeks. It's the inside of your cheek going. And just kind of. It makes a good go of it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's trying to be like, we're gonna be the whole fucking face. Like some lunatic dictator in the cheek country is like. And we're gonna. I'm not gonna stop. It's when the baby's being born, I'm being made. I'm not gonna stop until this whole fucking thing is cheek. Everyone's like, dylan, shut the fuck up. And sometimes people with big old lips. That was a pretty good go. That was a pretty good go.

[A]

They got pretty far.

[B]

And sometimes. You mean. Sometimes you mean, I'm a fucking. No lips. Wear your lips. That was lazy cheek. It's not their fault. It was. The cheek was lazy that. That time. God, if you're in the womb and you got lazy cheek, you ain't gonna get no lips.

[A]

This is like. You know what this feels like?

[B]

Vanity. This feels like insanity.

[A]

What was that show that used to happen at.

[B]

Sundown?

[A]

God. Jesus. Turn it down so much.

[B]

I'm going to. I'm going to the.

[A]

At least I'm down.

[B]

Okay, keep going.

[A]

At the San Francisco Fest. Whatever. Laugh fest. I don't know. There was, like, a show. Remember? There used to be a show where they would put any topic up and you had to just riff on it. Set list. There you go.

[B]

Old homesy used to do set list.

[A]

Yeah. And that felt like that where you're like, you know, you don't have to try to scrape up material about lips. It's not.

[B]

It's fine. I actually think that is a highlight for this episode for me. Well, that lips are just the cheeks making it go at being the whole face.

[A]

I'm glad.

[B]

But you know who fights lazy cheek? You know who fights back? His face.

[A]

It really is insanity Face goes.

[B]

We ain't having that.

[A]

We got our own thing going on.

[B]

Yeah. You're too porous, you're too pink. You're wet.

[A]

It is.

[B]

Beat it. We'll give. Then they have like the wga. They have like negotiations. How much of the face will we give to inner cheek? And then the result is left.

[A]

Why is it different skin? It's different. If we're being honest. It's different skin from face or mouth.

[B]

It's inner cheek, you mean.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Mouth. Mouth is confusing because there's roof of mouth. Roof of mouth is what? What is this like someone ribs. Yes. It's ribbed.

[A]

It's ribbed for her pleasure.

[B]

And I can't get that ribbing on any part of you. It is a waste of rib. Why is it ribbed up there?

[A]

I guess it's ribbed for probably his pleasure.

[B]

Oh, BJ's. You think the mouth was like they're going to be sucking on.

[A]

No, no, I, I definitely.

[B]

That's where I'm embarrassed. Cuz I did think it was that. Oh no, no, no. Like a frog.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No, it's ribbed. So it's fun to tongue and so retainers have something to into.

[A]

Yeah. Original biology predicted retainers. I do. A reason I did you like? Of course. We all wanted a retainer, right?

[B]

You wanted a retainer?

[A]

Yes. Oh, I forgot that you have like a permanent retainer.

[B]

Don't tell people that. Edit that out. I do have a per attainer.

[A]

I wanted a retainer so bad because you just. It's like we've talked about this before.

[B]

Yeah. You want to be like Blossom.

[A]

Yeah. Well, and all kids like want glasses, want braces, want cats.

[B]

Accessories.

[A]

Yeah. You just want something special.

[B]

Not rubber bands on your braces though. That's a bridge too far.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When you feel like a puppet and you don't want.

[A]

You don't want headgear.

[B]

Oh my God. If you're gonna wear headgear, just wear a bike helmet too. It just looks so dorky.

[A]

I know.

[B]

It's the. It's the bike helmet of dental care.

[A]

Yeah. But we. I. My friend had retainers. Cause she had braces. And then you used to like have to. Maybe you still do like wear a retainer for a while. But it was the kind that was like metal, you know, on the side. So all you could see was like the canine teeth would have metal and she would pull it out and I remember she would get different tops, like the top that sticks to the ribbing of the roof of your mouth. Colored, different colored. And she had like purple sparkles and she had rainbow tie dye.

[B]

Rich is this girl. Cuz all I remember about tanners is this. You got to take it out for lunch and it's gross because you have.

[A]

To be like, oh, it's so gross.

[B]

Then you put it. If you're a dork and an idiot, I'm being too mean. If you're a piece of. You wrap it in a napkin.

[A]

Cuz you're being always did this and.

[B]

You put it on your tray and then you eat your lunch and then.

[A]

You throw it away every single time. And we would go to Taco Bell and it was because she, she was like very Taco Bell. She was very picky. A very picky eater. Yeah.

[B]

And one of the like five custom. Because that's the expensive part is the mold.

[A]

I think maybe this might be the difference between the 90s and the 80s because I think it was pretty ubiquitous by that point. Retainers and like having fancy molds.

[B]

Yeah, let's. Okay, thank you. Because. Yes, because. Excuse me, Retainers. Hold on. Retainers and braces are like crocs.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You know how croc.

[A]

You don't have to talk that loud, especially if you're saying something that's not interesting.

[B]

Oh my God. No. Crocs. How they're like ugly, but that's what's cool about them.

[A]

Yeah, so too, so too.

[B]

Retainers were for me then, but there wasn't ugly chic then it was just ugly. And then we were like, what if we make retainers the ugliest thing?

[A]

And so why were they.

[B]

How were they funky fresh? They're ugly because it looks like a hardened jelly.

[A]

No, but how are they made uglier?

[B]

Well, what I'm saying is by making it purple sparkle, like drawing that makes it uglier. No, drawing attention to the ugly thing. The 80s was like, let's make it mouth colored. And then like what? I'm leaving an element out too. Something that became more prevalent with braces was putting like colored, like colorful rainbow like rubber bands.

[A]

Oh yeah, totally.

[B]

So you'd go. You lean into the ugly so far that it Became cool. And that's Crocs.

[A]

See, I was definitely thinking it was like, trying to decorate the ugly. Like, be like, at least make it. And it didn't work. It did work for me. Because you want to be like, everything is identity when you're a kid. So you're like, am I. Am I a purple sparkle retainer girl?

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

In my rainbow rubber bands.

[B]

Oh, my God. It's. No, it's. It's comedy. It's. It's beautiful. It's like I'm stuck in this fuck situation.

[A]

Stuck in the fuck.

[B]

Yeah, I'm stuck in a fuck situation, man. And you're gonna highlight. It's like, there's a book and only one word says diarrhea. And you highlight it and you go, that's me, baby. It's like, instead of wearing a toupee.

[A]

Right in the margins, that's me, baby.

[B]

Picture a businessman who wears a toupee. That's the 80s.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Now picture the same businessman at a party. An outdoor party.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like a patio out of a hotel. And he's wearing, like, a rainbow Afro. That's. That's Crocs. Crocs are like, my feet hurt. And you're like. And it's fucking ugly. I'm wearing blocks of Swiss cheese, fucking buttons on them.

[A]

It did feel like there was a thing in the 90s, like, Ugg boots, like, being like, we can actually. It almost feels like it's the fashion industry being like, we can sell anything. You.

[B]

Yeah, they can.

[A]

We can make anything. Something that you will see at first sight and think, I will never wear these. We'll put them on supermodels and you will wear them.

[B]

That's why I don't understand why fashion is considered cool at all. Like, you see someone who's fashionable and they're wearing the Ugg boots or the Crocs or whatever it is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Aren't you just looking at a ding dong that, like, fell for it? But it has the illusion of, like. But I'm doing it.

[A]

But I think that.

[B]

But I don't think they are doing.

[A]

It, but I think that it. It's. It's incredibly so. I was. I was reading a digital detox. It's called Digital detox. Oh, yeah.

[B]

You're gonna do. I'm gonna do October.

[A]

Sober October, but for Instagram and alcohol, actually, and a lot of things that I love.

[B]

It's like me quitting pistachios.

[A]

I barely drink. Yeah, I know. I don't want to say Sober October. Because that sounds like I'm, like, my picture sober.

[B]

What did I say to you, too? I was like, oh, it was something like, it doesn't matter. We were trying to think of another way of saying Sober October that was like, less. I don't know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It sounds kind of bro. To be like, I'm doing Sober October. A lot of people. No, judge.

[A]

Brober.

[B]

Octrober. Robert. Robert.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

A lot of people that do Sober October. I'm just like, that's great. And it's always like, you know, a certain type.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Doing it for the challenge of it or whatever.

[A]

Yeah. I'm not. I'm just doing Whole 30 and quitting Instagram. But where. What were we doing? Oh, digital detox. And he was saying, like, breaking down all of the different ways that we get addicted to social media, and one of the main ones is fomo. It's like fear of missing out and that so many, like, industries take advantage of that. That's why it's, like, limited time only. Everything is limited time.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

So for fashion, it's like fear of missing out. Like, everybody's doing this one thing. They're all buying these shoes, and I can't be the only one that doesn't.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they figured out there's something in our biology that want. We want to be the first ones to do something. To do something.

[B]

So it's like, first to market.

[A]

So that's why, like, that's. It's all. That's why if you watch, like, a fashion show of the newest, like, the fall line or whatever.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's all stuff that you're like, oh, God, really? All right, that's what we're gonna do. Okay. You know, like, because it's like, the first time you're seeing it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And then everybody's racing to that, and it just somehow really works for our psyche because we want to be special.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we want to be rich.

[B]

White headphones.

[A]

Yeah. We want to. We want to be in the elite club that knows that we're wearing. You know, you're, like, connected.

[B]

Like, it's like kind of like you have a friend. It's like, oh, he has friends.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, you watched a fashion show. You're in the know you were invited. Like, isn't it interesting that those things are, like, vip? It's VIP to watch people walk up and then walk back. It's the fucking dumbest thing in the world. But so to brand, so too. I think the new iPhone is an interesting conversation is because like, people were pretty. I wouldn't say up in arms, but some people were up in arms that, like, the newest iPhone is, like, the same iPhone. Like, it had to happen. All they changed was, like, the plug port is now a USB C. That's it.

[A]

Really?

[B]

I mean, obviously, Apple would. I. Dude. Dude, I watched an Apple because I like watching that stuff, even if I won't buy it. Like, I'm an iPhone. When my phone starts fucking freaking out and dying. Like, if it starts turning black screen in the middle of the day, I'm just like, well, it's time to. For an iPhone.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Speaking of which, there's a law that just got passed that the next iPhone has to have a removable replaceable battery.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Cool.

[A]

Why? Like, why is that a law?

[B]

The United nations of commerce, whatever the that is. It's just like a sheker. Hipper. They meet at FAO Schwartz, the delegate from Pepsi. What's up, y'?

[A]

All?

[B]

Budweiser. Sorry. Chili's has the floor. This is fun. I love hanging out with you.

[A]

I love also that you're like, it's just like, a cooler.

[B]

And then you just name the lamest.

[A]

Things, including FAO shorts. Dude, we have no updated information. We're talking about Ugg boots.

[B]

I know.

[A]

And Chili.

[B]

But we do have updated information. I'm coming with the real. Real.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Meaning the battery thing. Because that's planned obsolescence. That. Why do I replace my iPhone? Because the battery stops working.

[A]

Oh, right.

[B]

Every other component is working. Yeah, but batteries have a shelf life, right? So, like.

[A]

Which they don't have to.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like another ways we're all being bamboozled. There's a billion ways we're all being bamboozled. Fashion is one of them. Yeah, but we want to be bamboozled. We've talked about this before, but I did watch an Apple. This is what I was saying, dude, about unveiling video and these poor actors. It's like, it's not the Steve Jobs. I know. He's dead, but it's not whoever the new one is. Steve Jobs photocopied on transparent paper and, like, blurred a little bit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And like, Tim Cook.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's not that. I call him a that.

[A]

It's not that. But I think that's probably pretty accurate.

[B]

Yeah, it's right on. He'd love that, knowing Tim. Tim's a friend. But so anyway, it's like this kid talking to the camera being like. I think his iPhone 15. He's like, iPhone 15 is here, and it's fucking crazy. And he's like. The camera's following him, and he's walking through, like, a safari, and then he's like, under Niagara Falls. And he's just telling you about a phone. So that is nothing new. I wish I'd been on set.

[A]

It's like, you can still take photos.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You can still do.

[B]

One of the. The number one thing was they were like, it's made out of titanium. And literally another actor is like, titano. What? Like, not. Not really. But they're like. They do say to not exaggerate. They go like, titan. Yeah, that's right, Jim. Titanium. The same stuff they make, like, space shuttles out of. Exactly, that's what I'm saying. Like, who the fuck knows what it's made out of? Who cares? Yeah, it had to happen. It's like a Greek myth. It's like they can withhold. Maybe they're thinking, like, okay, in three iPhones, we'll get rid of the eyebrow thing. You know that, like, weird floating black dot on the screen. You know what I'm talking about? Your eyebrows. Oh, you have the older phone. My eyebrow look. That fucking thing.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Island.

[A]

So they would go back to having this.

[B]

Arguably, yours looks better, but I think it does. But, yeah, this is. This is a snooze. I'm just saying, like, do you think they have the technology to make the whole screen a screen and not have, like, this weird?

[A]

It's just. I mean, there have been 50, 15 of these. So it's just like, of course they're gonna run out of ideas.

[B]

And finally Apple. This is what Apple's doing right now with the iPhone. They finally. And it had to happen.

[A]

Yeah, I know it. You know, I wish that I was better. I do get worked up about the planned obsolescence, but in general, like, I have friends who really get worked up about all the ways were being advertised to and manipulated to, like, buy things, which, you know, like the. My Instagram knows exactly what I want and, like, all of that. And I. Like, when I was talking to my therapist about wanting to quit Instagram, she was like, yeah, they capitalize on your. The basic. Your basic human needs. Needing to be seen, needing to be heard, needing to be validated by the group.

[B]

Yeah, Belonging.

[A]

Belonging. And they. They take that and they make you addicted to it so that they can sell you things. And I said, I know. And I just wish that. That got me worked up.

[B]

Here's how it will. It's funny, I've been having the Same thought processes. And I've been on this podcast. I've been like, what's the big deal? I like being advertised to. They know what I like. I get excited. The problem, it's like a. What is water? Situation is you don't realize, like, people get sober because they. Like, Craig Ferguson just did the pod. And we talked again about how, like, nothing outside of you should be in charge of whether or not you feel good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, we need to.

[A]

That does help me.

[B]

We need to get, like, balance and look, I know. I love stuff. We're rolling Pete's Picks here, and that's all legit. I'm. I'm covered in pizza picks right now.

[A]

Yes, yes.

[B]

But we can like things and also go like. And it's okay to not have like. I can't tie my fundamental identity to those things. Here's the other thing I was going to add to that. Yeah, I know we've made the slot machine comparison before, but I was just seeing somewhere that it's like the randomization of rewards. Like, I think they do this, meaning you never know what you're gonna get.

[A]

That's what they mentions in the digital detox.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's like a slot machine part of it. Yes.

[B]

And slot machines will do false wins. You pay a dollar and you won 50 cents.

[A]

Really?

[B]

You lost 50 cents? But they mask it as a win.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you go in and I think they even delay. Like, for example, you know when you buy a movie on itunes, you get the receipt the next day. I mean, the transaction's done. They could email you the receipt. So they delay that. Oh, interesting to, like, not have you regret it sort of thing.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

And I would imagine. In fact, I feel like I've heard this. They. They might delay certain feedback to, like, get you to check back and see what's happening. Like, you. I don't know. I don't know how they would do that. But what's crazy is we know these things, like slot machines are being programmed. The randomization of rewards. You never know. You might go on and you might have a message from David Duchovny that's like, hey, I just think you're cool. And you're like, what? Or a comment.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or a. Like. Or whatever.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you never know. And I've been. I'm with you. I'm. I want to try doing. I am going to do it with you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In Rocktober.

[A]

Here are the. The compelling things for me about it. One, I know I'm giving my creative energy Away to Instagram.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I'm giving degrees of my self worth to Instagram.

[B]

Talk about the creativity. Because that was a new angle for me. Like, it satiates.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

What would have otherwise been used.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To make something.

[A]

That's right. Like, you have an itch for. Even the. The itch of, like, I want a dopamine hit. I also want to feel good about myself and I want, like, like validation. Just validation. Okay. So you're getting that, obviously, so quickly from Instagram, but it's all external.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you can actually get those things internally. And it's way more nurturing and it lasts way longer.

[B]

Well, you end the search. Like when you center yourself and get in your body and get present and all that stuff, you realize everything you need is. Is right here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I can hear people being like, but I need lunch. But it's like. But the moment we were talking about is over and you were fine. Lunch can be on the docket. Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, you can drop in and it's there.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

It's like keeping you in a search.

[A]

And I think that you want to be. So this is what it created in me and. And another reason why I'm going to give it a break. And this says in. In the book, like, one of the things it does is change your brain. Of course it's changing your brain. Something that I'm doing that often is going to be changing the structure of my brain. And it's changing your brain to be a lot of different things, but the ones that really resonate are restless and less able to regulate your own emotions.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Wait. Restless.

[A]

Restless.

[B]

I think that's so right on.

[A]

And the restless is connected to the creativity. So it's like, I'm restless, so I'm gonna pick up my phone and I'm gonna just scroll and get cheap and. And then until I'm not restless or I'm restless. And I'm going to use that restlessness as fuel to create something.

[B]

Buddy. I just saw there was a YouTube video. Funny social media, but, like, suggested to me that was like, how anxiety leads to greatness sort of thing. And how discomfort leads to greatness. And I was like, yeah, everything that you like was somebody that felt so uncomfortable with that thing not existing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, deeply. Like, if somebody went back and got Shakespeare to chill the beans.

[A]

Huh.

[B]

You think there'd be Hamlet.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Dude was fucking haunted. That's what it is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You think, like, I, like, I did a set this week and I had to Like I start dreaming. Like I start having weird dreams where I can't do stand up or like I'm about to go on. I'm nervous. Like, I just know it shows up. And what is that? That's. It's unpleasant. It's anxiety.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It sucks.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you want. And you. If you only give yourself the healthy ways to alleviate that, then there'll be some creation. And that's like kind of what we're meant to be doing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like the restlessness, the fight, flight.

[B]

It's. It's supposed to get you away from the predator and towards the plentiful fields. Or help you kill the predator and have delicious ribs.

[A]

Yeah. Or just like do any sort of job. Like build the, you know, huts and create the nets and do, you know, we should, we should be having these like slow sort of jobs that you invest in. It's exactly what we've been wanting for Leela. So Leela came, she's going to this new little school. And I. And one of the main reasons we picked this school was because there is sort of this idea that you stay with something even though it's hard. And we really want to develop that. And Leela. And even. So the example is she sewed. She came home with like a little sewed felt heart. It was like two pieces of heart shaped felt that she sewed together. And I was like, wow, this looks like it. It took a lot of work. And she was like, it took a long time. And I was like, and you stayed with it. She's like, well, I had to go until the timer went off. So that's like how the teacher is helping her stay. I love that.

[B]

Which is the pomodoro method too. Like that's proven if you give yourself. Do you know the pomodoro method?

[A]

No. It's like tomatoes and angel here. Boston.

[B]

Hilarious. Pomodoro means tomato. So this guy had a tomato. I say that like, I knew. That was so fun for me. By the way, pomodoro means tomato. Like, I go to Italy all the time. Yeah, sorry. It means tomato.

[A]

He loved.

[B]

I just learned it. Yeah, no, it was delicious. I hated it. But he had a timer, like an egg timer, tomato timer. Really? That looked like a tomato. And that's why pomodoro. I don't remember what the equation is, but it's something like you work for 30 minutes and you take a 10 minute break.

[A]

Yes, I've heard this. Yeah.

[B]

Like, you know, you have to stick with it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't Love it. But I don't always do it. But I can do it if I'm really trying to force myself to do something.

[A]

Yeah. No, I think there is. I do. I do like it. I think I'm. Well, I'm trying to do that sort of in place of morning pages. It's like a different version of it in the morning. It's what I learned from Mirabai Starr, who I think learned it from Natalie Goldberg. And it's like you have a prompt, and you just write on that prompt for 20 minutes without stopping. And it's sort of like you keep writing so that you're kind of outrunning the self critic, but also you're just staying with it, even when you're like, I think I'm done. And then if you stay with it, there's always something new that comes out about it. Yeah.

[B]

Second life. Yeah. David Vanderveen taught me that when we were surfing. He was like, second life is like, you think you want to stop, and then you push through. And I've. That's one of the things I love about breathwork, is I do Wim Hof. I've been trying to do it every day because it's. It. It's like one of those things. One of those things I know is good for me. It's like flossing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But sometimes I just don't have the energy. But I've been doing it. I want to do it every day. I was. I just told myself for 30 days. That just means just do it fucking every day.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And there's always a moment when you're doing the breath hold where you're like, I want to give up. And if you can just go, I know. Just don't.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you go, but. And there's this part of the breath where you're like. Like that. And then on the other side of that, there's like a. Oh. I sort of overrode the system a little bit. Told myself, we will be breathing. We're not going to die. It's okay. I can't always do it. But you have to, like, learn to push to the second chapter of your effort.

[A]

This is what runners know.

[B]

Yeah, I know.

[A]

This is their, like, secret thing. Because I was asking my friend who runs till our friend. I was like, so when you're running, like, don't you think, like. Like, oh, my God, I hate this. I want to stop. I want to stop now. Let me go. I want to stop like that. Because that's all I'm thinking. When I run.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he's like, yeah. But then I just focus on my breath. He doesn't even listen to anything.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And he's like, I just. But then I just returned back to my breath, and I was like, oh, that's mindfulness. Wow.

[B]

That's also. So I had dinner with Ethan Suplee, who I love very dearly, and he started doing Cold Exposure, and we had conver. I was like, you brought up one of my favorite topics. But I told. I was talking about that very thing because he. He was like, how do you do it longer? He wants to do it longer. I was like, you just have to go. Just one breath. Just one breath. If you're thinking about the timer or think about staying in ice water for three minutes, you won't do it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I. It's funny, too, how simple our brains are. So I. I do let's say 20 box breaths, and that's five minutes. When I get to two, I go, you're already at two. It's like, total nonsense.

[A]

No, I love that.

[B]

Look at you. You are. Every time. Or I can't do it. You go, you're already at 2. Same with Wim Hof, because I do 40 breaths, and that's so many breaths, and you just want to quit. And you go, you're already at one. It might as well be that.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Like, you have to, like, encourage yourself to that extent. Can I say one more thing about Digital Detox? And then we'll do a little break, and then I want you to read the John Wick poem that you sent me, which is so fun.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

We can talk about all these things and more. But I was playing. I had. We both had, like, a perfect day yesterday. And I, as everybody that listens to the show knows, I finished my script. I felt so accomplished about that, and I was like, okay, these things are coming to fruition. The Batman videos are releasing, and it means so much that people are finding it and enjoying it. My special is coming out October 24th. My special script is done. You know, the first draft is done. The strike is over. I can start working on that TV show. I was working on all these things, like, just this incredible, abundant time. And then I was like, okay, I'm gonna take Thursday to just kind of off and relax because I felt all of this energy, and it's, like, time to let the wave sizzle and retreat. So I was gonna play, and I did. I played Assassin's Creed, Black Flag, which is a great game. And what I noticed Going back to you talking about, and I'm not even saying this is bad, I've just gotten a little bit wise to dopamine. Like, the way that your brain learns that dopamine is coming, because what is a video, a video game, is a dopamine delivery system. In the same way that nicotine is, in the same way that, you know, exercises, in the same way that pornography is or a movie. Like, it's so interesting to just separate the activity and go, you're seeking dopamine. It's dopamine seeking behavior.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was thinking when you were talking, I was thinking about, like, if we were geese, it would be so obvious. Like in Assassin's Creed, one of the things that's fun about it is the guy can run up any building. It's very funny. Like, if he's running towards a building, you're like, oh, there's a building. But he grabs like the tiniest windowsill and hauls up the building. It's just like the ultimate help. I'm stuck in the third dimension. I'm stuck in a material world and there's obstructions and it's like, what if there wasn't. And it would be the same if a goose was playing a game where it's just fucking a goose. Flying effortlessly, never tiring, and finding food everywhere. And honking. They love honking. You know what I mean? Like, it's just a fantasy. And that fantasy triggers this dopamine, I'm guessing. But here's what I really want to say. I. I'm not crazy about porn. I think it does weird things to your brain. But when I was, when I play a video game, it goes, go look at porn. It's the craziest thing. I don't know what it is.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

But it's like I'm in a two dimensional, like, going around and it's so. And by the way, I'm not wagging my finger. I'm going to play Assassin's Creed later today, but I'm probably going to look at porn and I'm probably going to do it while I'm looking at porn. But, like, you're running around, nothing can stop you. You're fast, you can't be tired. And if we're being real, you see like evil soldiers, like British soldiers, and you murder them with no consequence. And like stealthily, you just grab them and stab them and drop them in a bush and then keep walking.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

It's like how we're always walking away from exploding cars. In slow motion. Like, that's a mammal fantasy. Imagine being able to take care of foes and it doesn't even frighten you. You don't even have any response. You're just like that, secure in your safety.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

And you always win. You are always upgrading. So while you're doing it, you're like, this is spiking my dopamine. I want nicotine. I want what? Back in the day, I would be like, I want alcohol, I want weed, I want junk food, I want Mountain Dew, code red. Then I want to like, I'll take a break and jerk it to porn. It's because you're. And your brain is going nuts.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But just like any addict, we all know this. Any addiction is like, it starts to flatline. And I saw Dr. Huberman talking about this. It's like going on Instagram is a dopamine seeking behavior. And what's crazy is. And you told me this about porn once, which was actually really cool. Meaning I told you I hadn't looked at porn in a really long time. And then I did something pretty mild. My ego wants me to say that because I'm still kind of like a shame. Shameful Christian boy. It was something mild. It was fine and it was awesome. I was like, this is incredible. It had been months and I went back to it and I was like, this is fucking the best. And I told you about it because we're that kind of couple. And it wasn't a confession. I was just interested in why it was so good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then I think maybe a couple days later I was like, well, I'm gonna look at that again.

[A]

And it wasn't right.

[B]

Of course, in the same way that looking at your phone sometimes is this jackpot. And sometimes it's you just going like, I'm not even enjoying this.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then you think, we'll just keep going. Surely it will work and it doesn't know and all of these things.

[A]

And then it makes you fail you.

[B]

And then you're like, but I'll just keep going.

[A]

Yes. And like any addiction, it makes you need it for just baseline normal.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So I really know that feeling. Let's do mid rolls and then I'll talk about the dopamine chase of all day. All day.

[B]

Dopamine chase. Katie, roll that beautiful bean footage. This episode is brought to us by our friends at the Perfect Gene. I just taped my Netflix special. Of course I'm rocking perfect jeans. I was just on the road. Of course I was wearing my perfect jeans. I. It doesn't matter what I'm doing. I'm always wearing perfect jeans. Sometimes fans ask and I'm like, of course, of course. I hate hard pants. I don't understand why we can't just give in, move into the 21st century and start wearing comfortable, soft pants that look good. The problem was they didn't really exist until the perfect jean. They are the best looking, best fitting, best feeling, super soft, super flexible fabric. And they look so good, no one needs to know. So you don't have to wear yoga pants like your Sting or Phil Collins. You can't pull it off. Wear the best looking jeans you've ever worn. With a secret, stretchy secret. These are the best pants I've ever owned. As soon as I tried them, I did a complete overhaul. All of my jeans, even some of my khakis. I just got their khakis, which I fucking love. I haven't taken my perfect jeans off since they've arrived. I could even sleep in them. They're comfortable as PJs and they look like designer jeans. 2% spandex, 2.5% rayon. But no one needs to know. Just gives you extra movement that your man parts require. These jeans stretch so your nuts ain't crushed, thereby providing the only true home for your bone. And you can spare your nuts. Spare your nuts. Give yourself a little bit of movement. I can do a full squat in these babies and they look fantastic, like movie premiere fantastic. And they feel like after a movie premiere, falling asleep in front of a roaring fire. The perfect gene for the perfectly imperfect man. 20 off. 20 off. When you use code weirdo at checkout, liberate your lower limbs with the one and only perfect gene. Go to theperfectgene nyc, that's the perfect J E a n dot nyc. And use code weirdo for 20 off at checkout. Secondly, we're brought to us by our friends at Blueland. Did you know that an estimated 5 billion. 5 billion plastic hand soap and cleaning bottles are thin thrown away each year. And if that's not bad enough, most cleaning formulas are 90% water. Water which we all have access to. It's heavy to ship, leading to excessive carbon emissions. Plus those products are often filled with nasty ingredients like chlorine and ammonia. This is a lose lose situation for you and the planet. But Blueland, a wonderful company is on a mission to eliminate single use plastics by reinventing cleaning essentials to to be better for you and for the planet. That's win win. Their idea is simple. They offer Endlessly refillable cleaning products with beautiful cohesive design that looks great on your counter. That's actually Val and I's favorite part. They look sleek, they look clean. And now there's like a uniform look to all of our formerly disparate bottles of nonsense. You fill these with water, your own water, Drop in the tablets and wait for them to dissolve. You never, ever have to grab bulky cleaning supplies on your grocery run. Refills start at just $2.25. You can even set up a subscription or buy in bulk for additional savings from cleaning sprays to hand soap, toilet bowl cleaner, laundry tablets. All Blue Land products are made with clean ingredients you can feel good about. And you can know you're doing something good for the planet and not contributing to the 5 billion plastic hand soap and cleaning bottles. Jeez Louise. Do something good for you, for the planet and show your support of the show. Blueland has a special offer for weirdos right now. Get 15% off your first order by going to blueland.com ymiw. You won't want to miss this. Blueland.com ymiw for 15% off. That's blueland.com ymiW for 15% off. And we're back.

[A]

And we're back. Yeah. So that's the other thing I've noticed is if I'm looking at Instagram first thing in the morning, it sets the pace.

[B]

I wasn't judging.

[A]

I'm just saying cheap dopamine.

[B]

Yeah, cheap dopamine. That's it.

[A]

Which doesn't last. So this is like the most obvious example of this is like cocaine. If you have cocaine, you spend the rest of your night looking for more cocaine.

[B]

My cocaine.

[A]

My. My cocaine.

[B]

My cocaine kind Michael Kane and my cocaine.

[A]

But that's. It's like that becomes your whole night. That is trying to get more and more and more. And so too Instagram is for me now where I get primes. You keep dopamine. And then the rest of the day, I want food. I want to masturbate. I want to like, I need any sort of hit. Like, yeah, and there's. And it. It's all day. My want monster is like, more fun. And then I'm like, I have to do the dishes. And it's like, no, I don't want to do anything boring. I only want to have fun. And it's like a brat. It's like, I made a brat in my body.

[B]

You primed a brat?

[A]

I primed a brat. I woke them up first thing and was like, hey, do you want to be a brat all day?

[B]

It's like eating an Oreo for breakfast you're going to want.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Again. So having dinner with Ethan, I noticed he wasn't eating the carbohydrates. And I know Ethan will. He's told me he'll sometimes rock bread and stuff. For those that don't know Ethan, he's an incredible inspiration. He lost like £7,000 and now he looks like a lumberjack that killed Ernest Hemingway.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's insane.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we're at this meal and I watched a guy not eat bread. Not because, look, I'm adding all of this. We didn't talk about it, but I was like, I bet knowing him and having talked about him, talked with him about this sort of stuff a lot. He just knows if he eats that bread, he's going to want dessert.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[B]

Like, it's, it's. It's that same thing that goes. Look at you. It's. You're already at 2. You have to talk to yourself like a ding dong and go like, yes, you can eat that bread. It's just like, do you want that resistance later?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you want that?

[A]

It's the. It's Lara bread. All the bread bites thing. Lara bites thing of like, play the tape out. Or I. I know that.

[B]

Yeah, play the tape out.

[A]

Yeah, it's like, just go play out the entire scene because you're just thinking about the taste of the bread, but then like, conscious. Yeah, that's true. It's impulse control, which is the other way that Instagram or social media. And you're not savoring your brain.

[B]

Nothing is savored. I know this isn't new territory, but it, it bears repeating.

[A]

Yeah. This is the other thing I noticed because there was like. I finally was like, I'm just going to get a novel to read and I'm going to. Anytime I want to look at my phone, I'll pick up this book instead. And like, the first time I did it and I started reading, I was like, fuck this. Can you just get to it? Can you get to it? I can understand my breath away, how slow this is going. And then I realized it's because I, like, got the hamster running at first full speed in my brain, and he's.

[B]

Got a cigarette in his butt.

[A]

And we just need all of life to just slow down.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

This is the speed at which you see everything.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I've been, like, going at such a pace that life is like blurred lines on the side in my periphery. And I'm not experiencing it. Cuz as soon as I wake up I'm just like, okay, yeah, I've been.

[B]

Going a little too hard on YouTube.com. that's sort of my.

[A]

And they talk about that in the digital detox. Like that's just as well. Insidious.

[B]

Get out of here. I'm just kidding.

[A]

I'm sorry.

[B]

No, I. I'm agreeing with you.

[A]

Yeah, I know.

[B]

But here's the only if you can think of your brain as a washing machine filled with confetti.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

That's how sometimes by the end of the day, my. My brain feels like there's just bags and bags of colorful confetti in a washing machine. And then it's been run. So now it's soapy and it's mixed up and I'm talking to somebody and I can't even identify. Oh, that made me think of this. That I learned because I just have too much.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So to your point, like I was reading something last night, like a 15 page. Basically like a pamphlet. Like a very, very short little book.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was like, you know when someone's doing an intro and they're like, the genesis of this book came to me when I was having coffee in Seattle with my good friend. And you're like, shut the up. You know what I mean? Yes, I can be that. And I literally was like, I'm gonna go on chat GPT and say, please summarize this book. It's a 15 page.

[A]

Oh, wow. Instead of just slow, like taking it.

[B]

As like couldn't because of the hamster.

[A]

I have to slow down. Yeah.

[B]

Those hamsters heart.

[A]

Yeah. You're like, just give me the goods, give me the information. And I think. And I've done. We've.

[B]

I didn't do it though. I stuck with it. That's out.

[A]

That's what I was gonna say is like. Then it becomes a mindfulness practice of being like, okay, yeah, okay. Can we just. Every time you're frustrated, just focus back on the thing that you're doing. It's Leela with the heart, the sewing the heart.

[B]

And the timer, like timer hasn't gone off.

[A]

Just try and recalibrate to this. And it did work in my brain. Slowed down. And it felt amazing to just like how meditating feels amazing every time you remember.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

That like every time you do it and you're like, wait, this is actually a vacation. And that I was thinking this was gonna be work.

[B]

And the introduction to the book, which isn't the point is settling. I bet you could do a CAT scan and be like, this is when your brain is settling in and prepping. It's like when you charge an electric car. It's like if you set the GPS to the charging station, it starts priming the battery to charge faster. So the intro isn't the point, but it turns out that that's what I'm saying. The confetti is. It's all just points.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And we're not designed to hold on to all those fucking points. And what it does is it makes me feel kind of lonely and scared. Like I have too much info. So anyway, I was listening to Tim Ferriss's Beep podcast, but he was talking about Nhat Hanh. And he and the guests were talking about Han and who basically kind of jump started mindfulness in America at least was like, when you wash the dishes, just wash the dishes.

[A]

That's his thing. When you drink a cup of tea, just drink a cup of tea.

[B]

But then I like this because it. It's like, why? And he goes, if you're washing the dishes. Thinking about that. I love his folksy, down to earth examples of what pleasure are. We're like porn and Assassin's Creed.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He's like, if you're thinking about a juicy peach, you're gonna eat after the dishes, chances are when you're eating the peach, you won't be thinking about the peach. And that was me with the bread.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I'm eating bread and I'm. I'm always the next thing. And then he goes, and next thing you know, you missed your entire life. And could the stakes be higher? And that goes back to what you were saying about advertising and buying something and waiting for it to show up and all that. That can be fun. But it's like, if all you're doing is waiting, you'll have missed your entire life. It literally is like a life or death thing. And Eckhart Tolle says that too. Don't do it as a means to an end. Do it as a thing in itself.

[A]

I just. That's so good. That's so helpful. And I'm just realizing, I say, I basically said that to Leela. So another reason I'm gonna get off Instagram is because I. I don't. I'm not tempted by my texts or my emails. Like, ask any of our close friends. I'm the worst at correspondence. That doesn't do it for me. Like, a lot of the Digital Detox book is about, like, if you hear your Phone go like a notification and you can't help but look at it. I'm like, no, I, I hear a notification and I'm like, get as far away from my phone as possible. I don't like the things that have, require anything of me. I just want to go. So Instagram is the only reason I'm looking at my phone usually. And Leela has started by example, wanting a phone. She's like, I can't wait to get a phone. I want to learn how to use it. She's like, I'm going to take my phone to school so I can take a picture of anything I want. Like, and it's happening because she's seeing us on our phones all the time. Or I'll just say me and, and, and she's like, and of course she wants whatever. We're like the shiny thing that we're looking at all the time.

[B]

Yeah. I was just thinking about a haunting New Yorker cartoon would be a, a person with a phone in front of their face and it would say, your child's view of you.

[A]

Oh my God. I know. That would be more like a billboard, like in LA to try and get you to put your phone down.

[B]

Hilarious.

[A]

You know what I mean? Like, they have those like PSA billboards.

[B]

We had that funny rip.

[A]

I know, but I don't, I don't think we can. I don't think we can anyway.

[B]

It's just like, oh my God, no.

[A]

Okay. But so she's been like, more interested in the phone and she like took, she did a great little trick where she like came behind me and she was like petting my hair and I was like, oh, that feels nice. Thank you, baby. And she like pulled my phone out of my pocket while she was petting. And I was like, leela. And then she like ran away with it and went under the bed and, and I came in and I was like, I'm gonna take it. Like, do you want to give it to me or, or how do you take it?

[B]

With a bullhorn?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How do you want to play this?

[A]

Yeah. And she like threw it at me and she's like, it's not fair. I want a phone. I want, you know, whatever. And I said, this is, I guess this is like a self serving story. But just, it was a moment for me where I was like, wait. It was like, I need, I need to totally change here because I'm having higher standards for my 5 year old than I'm having for myself. So I was like, leela, this thing is not good. It's not good for our brains, and it's not real life. So if I'm looking at this all the time or you're looking at it all the time, we're missing everything real. And so I was like, please help me. If you see. I'm not just saying you can't have the phone. You can also tell me I can't have the phone.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And please tell me when you see me on it. Like, mama, you're on your phone. And. And it'll help me remember.

[B]

Get her in the mix.

[A]

Exactly. Which she loved. She loves if she can boss me. And I also so mean it. Like, I'm like, wait. And the want monster thing.

[B]

Delete it.

[A]

Is another way to. That I'm having a higher standard for her than. Than I have for myself. Because what we're talking about where you, like, get the cheap dopamine, and then you want more and more and more All. All day. The number one thing I get frustrated with Leela about is if we have a day where we, like, a special day where we go to dopamine a million times and then we go get ice cream and then she gets a toy, and then we do, like, all these things. And then at the end of the.

[B]

Night, always, she's playing Assassin Creed and wants to look at.

[A]

Yeah. And she'll want something and we'll go like, that's enough. Like, we just cut it off. And she's like. And then I'm like, but we gave you all these other things. That's so frustrating.

[B]

We primed her. Because I'm talking to me.

[A]

Yeah. And I'm having higher standards for her. Her. Where I'm like, you should understand that. And I'm like, I don't even understand.

[B]

You're a great mama in person.

[A]

That's nice.

[B]

You know what? I. I'm. I'm. I'm finding hope in. In all of this. Is. It's so interesting when we talk about priming. Right. Like, so looking at your phone first thing in the morning. Everybody knows is where. Maybe not everybody, but most people that listen to this podcast. We're aware.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That that's a bad thing to do. It's just setting up a. It's honestly setting up a. What I need is out there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I better get it. Instead of trying to get a little from yourself or from your surroundings or just. Just the beautiful. This is enough. Just this. The old mantra that just this. Just this, just this. So, so powerful. But what I love about it. Life and the design of this is that every night we go to bed and every morning we wake up, and it really is like a. Like the first day of your life. I'm not just saying that in, like, a folksy way.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, like, you wake up and your brain kind of has fresh snow on it. And that's the first. You can take that first step to just be like, I'm not going to do that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's what I. I know I've said this a million, but that's what I love about going on a hike. Or all these other things that do release dopamine. But you said something earlier where it was like the book. Right. That's like an IV of dopamine. It's these tiny drips that give you. Keep you steady.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And you're allowed to feel other things other than just, like, spikes of pleasure and everything else. Is that the confetti washing machine is like. Because every Instagram post is just a little bump of cocaine and some of it's baby powder, and it doesn't work. And you keep chasing, chasing, chasing, changing. And it's almost worse when it does work. You're like, I saw that. That's the loneliness. I'm like, did I see a woman fall through ice this morning?

[A]

I read.

[B]

Like, that is a uniquely 21st century thing where you're like, I can't remember if I saw a falcon land on a toupee and rip it off and put it on a statue.

[A]

Right. Yeah.

[B]

And you might have. And that. It's really helping me appreciate. Even, like the. The. The bit dump at the beginning of our podcast. It's like, welcome, welcome, welcome. This isn't the point. We'll get to it. We'll get to it. Like, the. The need to have things that you see settle into.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And push through even.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

I'm with you. Like the beginning. The lips and the coup de lips and all that stuff. You. You. It's your time to go. Like, this isn't necessarily the most important part. We're just settling in and our brain kind of needs that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In the way that, like, cooking dinner or chopping wood for a fire or all these things.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We know. The meaning is like, first of all, it's very often free. One of the things I'm proud now that it's not as hot where we live, although it hasn't been that hot. I'm just like, it's nice and it's perfect. Weather is like, whatever I have to Do. I'll just do it outside.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like. And that's been so wonderful. Even if it's. This doesn't have to be at your house. You go to a park bench or just go on a walk or whatever. And I'm like, oh, God, it's right there. It's right there.

[A]

Yeah, It. It's so. There's just so much that we're missing because we could be looking at anything, and if we really see it, it's just. Exactly.

[B]

It's everything.

[A]

It's everything. It holds everything. It has the key to everything.

[B]

Yeah. I guess the reason to put a bow on it. We should be upset about Instagram ads being perfectly designed for us and. And even lulling us. Like, when do the ads show up in your feed? It's like when you're in that rhythm and it knows you're in the rhy and hits you with the ad and you buy. Or if you're like me, you click on it. I clicked on a shoe with, like, a wide footbed and I was like. And I went to the website, then I didn't buy it. And now it shows me that all the time.

[A]

Of course. Yes.

[B]

Sure about that?

[A]

Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

The reason we shouldn't want that is because the opposite of that is being fulfilled.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, that's like Nhat Han saying, if you don't do the dishes, when you're doing the dishes, your whole life will pass you by. But we need those stakes. If you go, like, if you're always just going like, next thing, next thing, next thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Fulfillment, peace, freedom, liberation. These are words that we're trying to sex up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Contentment, basic level. Peace.

[A]

That's actually it. That is. That does help me. It's like I've been thinking, like, I'm giving it my creative energy. I'm giving it my self worth. I really am, like, giving it my life in a lot of ways, because I'm missing. I'm. And I'm missing. Not only am I missing whatever I'm missing when I'm looking at it, but I'm setting the tone for my brain to always be anywhere else but in the moment. So I'm missing things even after I'm looking at it.

[B]

And everything worthwhile is in the moment.

[A]

Right? Yeah, I know. So we'll see. I know I'm a little. I'm, like, nervous to do it, because I think, I think, I suspect. Well, I know that a lot of my, like, fear of being alone is remedied by Instagram. Sure. Which is Something I think of Jack.

[B]

Kornfield when I asked him about porn, and he goes, people are lonely. And it was so beautiful. Because the same can be said about video games, social media.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

People are lonely. Life is hard. None of this is solved by going like, fuck. What the course would say is just see what you're doing and acknowledge that it's not working.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

And again, of course, in Miracles would say the whole ego system, which is this world, is the ego thought system sort of writ large, is what I would say is saying the way to safety is specialness and attack. And you could say that, like, you're attacking your boredom with, like, flooding it and kill and, like, stealing these, like, titillating moments. And like, you gotta get it, get it, Kill or be killed. And the. And the way out is to go, that's okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not shame on me, you go, that's okay. But is that working?

[A]

Right? Yeah.

[B]

Is there a better way?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, I know. Jennifer, my therapist will say, like, you know, there's no point in saying should or shouldn't, like, shoulding yourself. You. She's like, you could just be like, what if I meditated right now? Would that offer me something that I could use? You know, like, it's not. It's not like I should be. I should quit Instagram. It's like, what if? And in fact, even though I. I suspect that my therapist has very strong feelings about this, she was very. A very good therapist about it, where I was just like, I'm thinking of trying to, like, go without Instagram for a month. She was like, that would be an interesting experiment. And I think that's a good voice. Yeah, I think that's the voice that I want to keep, because I also suspect tied to the, like, fear of being alone thing. I really got addicted to Instagram during the lockdown and have stayed since then.

[B]

Yeah, it got me back into that too.

[A]

And so there's a part of me that suspects that there's, like, a little bit of a reserve of trauma feelings about the pandemic. And I've been, like, plugging it up with Instagram and it's kind of still sometimes spurts out the sides. But I'm. I wouldn't be surprised if once I remove that plug, a lot of the, like, feelings of isolation and fear. Fear and unknown, and all of that stuff that's still living in my body might. Might come out. So it's not gonna be a vacation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it's. It's time.

[B]

Well, just like I was saying, like, every morning. It's just a. It's just another. You're breaking a cycle and you can be gentle about it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And if anybody wants to join us, that's what we'll be doing for October.

[A]

For October, starting on Sunday.

[B]

October starting on the Sunday.

[A]

And I'll be posting like hell, the whole. Like, before that.

[B]

Yeah. The days leading up to today, if you want to see lots of grams.

[A]

Just kidding.

[B]

It is sort of darling, how we're all trying our best to just kind of, like, whistle in the. Not. Not to say whistle in the dark, but we're doing our best to be like, look at this. Look at this. Look at this. Look at this. Look at this. Look at me. Look at you. I look at you. Yeah, I know, but it is okay.

[A]

It's okay.

[B]

Yeah. We don't have to be afraid.

[A]

Yeah. All right, darlings.

[B]

Oh, the John Wick poem.

[A]

Oh, you want me to. I have to pee so bad.

[B]

Oh, let's do it next time.

[A]

Are you sure? I mean, I can do it.

[B]

No, we're out of here.

[A]

Okay. All right.

[B]

We'll read a John Wick poem next time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is that. That's John Wick. All right. In the meantime, Taryn, kill him.

[B]

Tell me how to do that.

[A]

Keep it crispy.