We Made It Weird #161

Summary

Podcast Summary: You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes

Episode: "We Made It Weird #161"

Date: January 20, 2024
Host: Pete Holmes
Co-host: Val
Theme: Secret weirdness, language, spirituality, and self-acceptance

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Overview

This lively, introspective episode of You Made It Weird’s offshoot, “We Made It Weird,” continues Pete Holmes’ tradition of examining the oddities and deeper intricacies of human consciousness, self-expression, and spirituality. Alongside his wife and co-host Val, Pete weaves through topics like musical nostalgia, the nuances (and pitfalls) of language, personal growth, and faith, mixing humor, stream-of-consciousness riffing, and unfiltered honesty. The episode builds toward a vulnerable and nuanced discussion of spirituality outside of religious dogma, particularly exploring why Pete doesn’t identify as “Christian” despite deep affection for Jesus.

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Key Discussions & Insights

1. The Weirdness of Everyday Life and Musical Nostalgia

• Music Riffing: The episode opens with playful banter about Smash Mouth, Beatles, and Kinks soundalikes, leading to an irreverent take on how recognition and nostalgia color our judgments of art.

  • Pete jokes, if Smash Mouth recorded a Beatles song, would anyone care?
  • [06:36] Pete: “If ‘Can’t Get Enough of You Baby’ was a Beatles song … everyone would cream their Beatles jeans.”

• Impressions & Parody:

  • Pete and Val break into musical impressions—Johnny Cash singing Kelly Clarkson, Billy Joe Armstrong’s punk-tinged pop—spotlighting Pete’s comedic range and comic, chaotic energy.
  • [08:05] Pete: “Old Johnny Cash singing ‘Since You Been Gone’ … as if it's an event—did that alone in my trailer.”

2. The Complexity (and Pretentiousness) of Language

• Language Snobbery:

  • Pete reflects on his own tendency toward “fancy talk,” confessing both his fascination with deliberate language and his cringe at its pretentiousness.
  • [17:55] Pete: “I saw him doing what I do a lot—try to talk fancy. I like talking fancy, but it’s just a tongue starvation.”

• Accessible Communication:

  • Both agree that clarity can matter more than vocabulary. They playfully dissect misused or misunderstood words—like Pete defending “polity” or Val sharing her “formidable”/“formative” slip.
  • [19:43] Pete: “If you’re only doing that [using fancy words], who is this for? It’s not for the listener.”
  • [24:12] Val: “In defense of Southern language, they’re often great communicators—sometimes I think well, and sometimes I just don’t know.”

3. Childhood, Church, and the Compulsion to Share

• Transparency as Healing:

  • Val shares that her upbringing as a pastor’s kid was all about “perception,” and that oversharing on social media and podcasts is a kind of course correction for past secrecy.
  • [41:00] Val: “So much more about how things look to the outside than what’s happening on the inside ... it’s very healing for both of us to just show [our whole life].”

• The “Desk Outside” Dream:

  • Pete recounts a dream of leaving a desk with family photos and documents outside—a metaphor for the vulnerability of podcasting and sharing life publicly.
  • [39:36] Pete: “Anyone can come and look at this. What’s weird is that we don’t have that dream constantly.”

4. Faith, Christianity, and the “Prodigal Son”

• Why Not ‘Christian’?

  • Pete thoughtfully explains why he loves Jesus but doesn’t fully identify as Christian anymore—chiefly, discomfort with atonement doctrine (that someone had to die for our sins) and exclusivity.
  • [48:58] Pete: “The thought that we die and our brains are scanned ... Did believe resurrection, did believe virgin birth ... All these checklists—I’m just grateful not to be in that mindset anymore.”

• Atonement & the Prodigal Son:

  • Pete contrasts atonement theology with the unconditional acceptance in the Prodigal Son, seeing it not as “earning” forgiveness but simply “remembering” you’re still loved.
  • [53:12] Pete: “Dad’s not mad. We think dad’s mad. Dad’s not mad.”
  • [55:47] Pete: “Jesus didn’t die to change God’s mind about us. He died to change our mind about God.”

• Heart vs. Head in Religion:

  • Val contrasts the “admin” obsession of belief checklists with the openhearted experience of grace and love, describing how “head” narratives of heaven/hell fuel anxiety, while “heart” is risky, boundless acceptance.
  • [57:34] Val: “Once you put the threat of hell into something, your brain takes over because it’s terrified.”

5. Universal Love, Spirituality, and Self-Forgiveness

• Universal Access:

  • The duo rejects exclusivist salvation, embracing a pluralistic, mystical spirituality:
  • [63:07] Pete: “I believe Jesus Christ is the one and only son of God, and so am I. And so are you.”
  • [65:35] Val: “We need all kinds of different ways of getting there ... That’s a beautiful tapestry.”

• Sin as Forgetting:

  • Pete reframes sin as “forgetting our shared identity,” and even calls the phrase “I am a sinner” itself a form of sin—an identification with separation.
  • [68:54] Pete: “If sin is forgetting that you are included in the party, then saying 'I am a sinner' is a sin.”

• Compassion Over Judgment:

  • On forgiveness, they cite Jack Kornfield and Tara Brach—emphasizing compassion for oneself, including forgiving yourself for not being able to forgive others.
  • [74:21] Val: “You first have to forgive yourself for not being able to forgive. Isn’t it beautiful that I want to forgive?”

• “Resign as My Own Teacher”:

  • Pete shares a mantra borrowed from A Course in Miracles—admitting the limits of self-guidance and surrendering control to “something bigger.”
  • [76:05] Pete: “There is a beingness … I resign as my own teacher.”

6. Self-Acceptance, Imperfect Parenting, and Internal Family Systems

• Messy Humanity:

  • Val and Pete discuss grappling with imperfection as parents, intrusive thoughts, and moments where compassion for oneself is the only antidote.
  • [81:27] Val: “I need to step up … This isn’t the practice child. … It’s so much pressure to put on myself to every moment show up. You can’t.”
  • [84:59] Val: “It’s as simple as putting a hand on your heart and going, 'This is really hard.'”

• Needing to Be Seen & Loved:

  • Pete confesses his need to “exist” in conversations, and how internal family systems therapy might offer more choices than feeling “too much or not enough.”
  • [87:04] Val: “You’ll learn how to communicate to those parts in real time … You’ll have more options available.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Pete on Music Recognition
  “If ‘Can’t Get Enough of You Baby’ was a Beatles song … everyone would cream their Beatles jeans.”
  — [06:36] Pete Holmes

• On Fancy Language
  “I like talking fancy, but it’s just a tongue starvation.”
  — [17:55] Pete Holmes

• On Sharing Publicly
  “That [dream] is what it’s like being on social media … we just have a desk that we leave outside with photos of our most intimate moments.”
  — [39:36] Pete Holmes

• On Spiritual Exclusivity
  “Have a God that’s better than your best friend Fred.”
  — [72:12] Pete Holmes

• Forgiveness
  “You first have to forgive yourself for not being able to forgive. … Isn’t it beautiful that I want to forgive?”
  — [74:21] Val

• Resigning as Your Own Teacher
  “I resign as my own teacher. The guy that needs to poop … and the guy that needs coffee …”
  — [78:18] Pete Holmes

• Heart vs. Head (Religion)
  “The heart is my touchstone back in.”
  — [59:27] Val

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Key Timestamps

• [06:10–09:50]: Opening musical riffs and British Invasion nostalgia
• [12:13–21:56]: Language digression, words, and pretentiousness
• [24:12–26:30]: Defense of Southern language, power of sayings
• [39:36–41:23]: Sharing, vulnerability, “the desk outside” metaphor
• [48:58–56:49]: Why Pete isn’t “Christian,” Prodigal Son, atonement
• [74:11–76:05]: Tara Brach, Jack Kornfield, self-forgiveness
• [76:05–79:40]: “Resign as my own teacher”; humble spirituality
• [81:27–85:07]: Parenting, inadequacy, and self-compassion
• [87:42–89:49]: Internal family systems, needing to “exist”

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Summary Conclusion

Pete and Val’s conversational chemistry, openness, and humor create a safe space for listeners to reflect on their own weirdness, struggles, and spiritual confusion. The episode thoughtfully unpacks why strict labels—religious or otherwise—can limit growth, advocating instead for heart-led acceptance, compassion, and remembering our inherent belonging. Through digressions and laughter, they model what it means to be “weird” in the best, most human way.

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Closing Memorable Moment:

“Keep it crispy.”
— [91:15] Val

Transcript

[Pete Holmes]

You made it with.

[Val]

You made it weird.

[Pete Holmes]

You made it with.

[Val]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You made it weird. Yes. You made it weird. You made it weird with Pete Holmes.

[Val]

What's happening Weirdos?

[Pete Holmes]

What's happening Weirdos?

[Val]

What's happening Weirdos? Welcome to what's happening weirdos, the offshoot.

[Pete Holmes]

Of you made it weird. I have low energy right now, but.

[Val]

Don'T worry, it's because he left it all on the field.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Not in the episode. This is a wonderful episode. Only a couple things to plug up top before we get into it. We're so glad you guys are here. Thank you. Petehomes.com I'm doing a Netflix is a fest show in Los Angeles.

[Val]

Netflix is a joke fest.

[Pete Holmes]

Netflix is a fest joke, which is so funny because I'm noticing that one of the motivations to sell that out is because everyone has a Netflix is a joke fest show every and you're like one. I really don't want to be the one where like nine people are there and one of them is Ted Sarandos. And I'm just like, sorry. Which of course isn't the case, but it's going to be a fun one. And I have Largo on the 30th of this month, which is also going to be a great one.

[Val]

Yep.

[Pete Holmes]

We just added Irvine Improv, a little one night show and another one night show, I think at the Oxnard Improv. I'm not sure about that, but go to go to PeteHomes.com those are all available as well as Chicago, which is until May, but it's available now. And if you like the show really, really, really, really means a lot if you try a Pete's Pick. These are things that I actually use and love. So Katie, run those ads. If you like the show and you want to support it, why not try a Pete's Pick, one of them? Modern Mammals. I talk about this constantly. Modern Mammals is the only shampoo that I found that cleans your hair but doesn't look like you shampooed your hair. Cause let's be honest, when you shampoo your hair, it looks like absolute shit. It looks like a bale of hay that you tossed in a dryer. Gets crisp, it gets unruly. It looks terrible. Usually if I had a TV appearance or an important event or where I had to look good, my strategy was I wouldn't wash my hair for two, three, four days leading up to it so it would have some of that natural moisture, some of that hold. Now modern mammals can clean my hair. My hairdresser used to complain, Cat my friend, that my hair was dirty, that it was gross and it was cause I wasn't cleaning it cause I didn't want it to look like crap. Modern mammals cleans your hair, but it maintains that natural hold and that some of that oil and some of that. I don't know how to explain it. It keeps it looking great. It's almost like you have products in your hair, almost like a dry shampoo. But when you wash it, it looks as good as it can. So there have only already got 40,000 guys that have switched to modern mammals instead of traditional shampoo. Once you use it, you will be hooked for life. I tell people about it all the time. It's a small question. Grassroots punk rock company. I absolutely love it. They have bars for the no plastic version with no fragrance or bottles. Which is like a magic gray mud that I love the feeling and the smell of that gets your hair perfect every single time. 6 seconds to perfect hair go to modernmammals.com weird where people can get a special combo deal and try both products, the bar and the bottle for 44 bucks. That lasts a really, really long time. So 44 bucks for both. You'll be set for a while and your hair will look perfect and won't look like absolute shampoo sucks. Go to modern mammals Also, we're brought to us by another piece of technology I guess you could call modern mammals technology. If there's one piece of actual tech that has changed my life more than any other in the past years, it is, hands down, my Apollo Neuro, which I'm wearing right now. I'm always wearing it when I do late night, when I do stand up. What is it? It's a wearable piece of tech that helps your body recover from stress, that sends vibrations into your body sending a signal to your nervous system that gives it the sensation of being held or touched. It's like a wearable virtual hug that helps calm and regulate your nervous system. It can help you relax, sleep, focus and be more productive. I was just writing before I did this intro, I. I had it set to focus, which they have the data to back. Helps fight off symptoms of add. It's a wearable hug using touch therapy to help you feel safe and in control. You can wear it on the wrist like I do or on your ankle. Helps me fall asleep and stay asleep at night. In fact, that's a new feature that they've updated that it will sense when you have woken up and rerun the program without you Even doing anything. So sometimes I'm awake in the night and I'll just notice my Apollo's turned back on and it lulls me back to sleep. Or rebuild and recover. Wonderful for after you've been stressed. Calm, which is wonderful for meditation, unwind, which is what I put it on when I'm watching TV at the end of the day to help me prepare for bed. It's wonderful for energy focus, sleep, relaxation. It is a game changer and a life changer develop. Developed by a neuroscientist and a board certified psychiatrist who've been studying the impacts of chronic stress in humans for nearly 15 years. Apollo's effects on stress, sleep, cognitive performance and recovery have been proven in multiple clinical trials and real world studies. So this is not a mood ring, this is not a crystal. This is hard science. 10 off. Go to ApolloNeuro.com weird. Get one for yourself, get one for a friend. It's a wonderful gift. We've given many as gifts. 10 off a P O L-L-O-N-U-R-O.com weird. Okay, all right, everybody get into it. I get to feeling like this. I get you wishing that there were two of you. My heart cries out, oh baby, I love you so much. Just in here singing to yourself. I thought there was more of you to dust.

[Val]

Oh, you're recording.

[Pete Holmes]

I can't get enough of you, baby.

[Val]

30 seconds of this.

[Pete Holmes]

Can't get enough of you, baby. Smash mouth gets that.

[Val]

Smash mouth. Okay, start over.

[Pete Holmes]

What do you mean you're embarrassed? You think that's embarrassing to not know that that's Smash mouth.

[Val]

That's Smash mouth.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that's. There might as well be walking. Here's the three smash mouth songs. Somebody once told me the number two 25 years ago. They broke and together they talked and they broke out with guitars and silent kind of just singing and clapping. Man, what the hell happened? Okay, here's my thing is if.

[Val]

What's the third one?

[Pete Holmes]

I'll get to it, but I can't.

[Val]

Handle the like dark in here, bright behind you, turn a light on. All right, I will. You have some smash mouth to sing so well.

[Pete Holmes]

And then the third one is can't get enough of you, baby. Here's my thing. And I think we've talked about this maybe before Smash Mouth. If that was a Beatles song, I don't think anybody.

[Val]

Pete Peter Holmes.

[Pete Holmes]

Shush.

[Val]

I. That's why I got embarrassed.

[Pete Holmes]

I can't get enough of you baby was a Beatles song and that I.

[Val]

Was like, that's smash mouth. And then I got embarrassed. It sounds exactly like a Beatles song. Or like a. Like the Kinks or any of it.

[Pete Holmes]

It's funny that you said the Kinks, cuz the Kinks is. They. They have that song that's on Leela's playlist.

[Val]

Yeah. Well respected man.

[Pete Holmes]

How did it go?

[Val]

Is that. Is that it?

[Pete Holmes]

That sounds like a Johnny Cat. I'm a Will.

[Val]

No, I think it is a. Well, I think it is well respected.

[Pete Holmes]

I did Johnny Cash. Old Johnny Cash singing since you've been gone. Do it.

[Val]

What do you mean you did it? When?

[Pete Holmes]

As if it's an event. I did that alone in my trailer. And it was. Here's the thing. We started out friends.

[Val]

Very good.

[Pete Holmes]

It was cool, but it was all pretend.

[Val]

Very good. Now do Billy.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Val]

Billy Joe since you've been gone. Very good.

[Pete Holmes]

Billy Joe from Green Day.

[Val]

Yeah. I don't want to hear you say.

[Pete Holmes]

I only want to be with you.

[Val]

It is. The nose is plugged.

[Pete Holmes]

This is my point. What is the Kink song, though?

[Val]

Well respected man.

[Pete Holmes]

But I can't be. How does it go? Well, we're just in a riff loop. Okay, well, I'm going to look it up.

[Val]

Respect. Did mine.

[Pete Holmes]

We're gonna look it up right quick. Because my point, and I think we're all ahead of me on this, is that, like, I. I don't understand music. I know. Yeah, I know. I did it. I did it twice. I typed in you.

[Val]

You too. No, first you did you.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't know why. It's like I'm used to a different keyboard. I keep trying to hit return. So. Kinks. Well respected man. Tell me this isn't a Beatles song. Cause he gets up in morning. Tell me. Tell me that's not Lennon McCartney.

[Val]

I mean, it's the same genre. It's like British Invasion 60s.

[Pete Holmes]

It is all so good.

[Val]

But here's the thing. I'm sure people who so fine. Really. I'm sure there are people screaming at their radio.

[Pete Holmes]

Good one, Paul. Now, George, try a little riff there, mate. You've done it again. You shaggy, you've done it again. It's all there.

[Val]

But we can't speak on this because we're not as familiar with. You know what I mean? Like, most people love the Beatles and I like the Beatles too.

[Pete Holmes]

Into the mic, darling.

[Val]

And they know. They probably hear something different in that.

[Pete Holmes]

Than we don't disagree.

[Val]

You just think your way's the right way.

[Pete Holmes]

And that's what makes me such a delight that's true. Nobody wants to get on a carousel at the carnival and have the carousel go, like, should I keep going in a circle? What makes it an attraction is that they're like, well, you go one way, baby. This way. Round and round and round. And some of us go up and down and down. And some of us are seats where you can sit if you're obese. I'm not shaming it. Let's just be honest. Those seats are for the very, very old and the obese.

[Val]

Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

Buddy, buddy, buddy, bunny, buddy, buddy. You can't be saying people are obese, man. Obese is a. By the way, I'm pretty sure if you did my bmi, I'm beast, baby.

[Val]

Yeah. You should be sitting in those chairs, Valerie.

[Pete Holmes]

How do you know? I know. How do I know that they're for the obese? Are they for me? I'm plopping down my long, gangly, heavy bones. Yeah.

[Val]

In the office where he says, sorry, what is she, a pants wearer? A dress. Where. When he's. When Michael's trying.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, my God. When he's trying to suss out if he's being set up with a heavier person.

[Val]

It's terrible.

[Pete Holmes]

That show is terrible.

[Val]

Oh, my goodness.

[Pete Holmes]

Bring down the office. Bring it straight to hell. This voice is wrong. It's like, kind of like a feminine man. It's wrong.

[Val]

What do you mean? It's wrong for this song.

[Pete Holmes]

Can I say something?

[Val]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

I had this dream. Can you do some music?

[Val]

Oh.

[Pete Holmes]

Act one. The dream. Peter woke up realizing that he had had a dream. It was different from his other dreams. He walked outside from a house on a hill and saw that there was a desk left outside. This is okay. I'm just going to do it normal now.

[Val]

That was really great.

[Pete Holmes]

You were great. That music was great.

[Val]

Thank you. It's a hard song to. Bum, bum, bum.

[Pete Holmes]

Wait, that's a real song?

[Val]

Well, then I didn't do.

[Pete Holmes]

Is that the Beatles?

[Val]

No, that's our song. That's our gymnopedi.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh.

[Val]

That'S not right.

[Pete Holmes]

No.

[Val]

Oh, I told you. There's a weird, like, S7 minor. It doesn't do it for. Oh, that third note is hard.

[Pete Holmes]

It's Billie Eilish, a lesbian.

[Val]

I'm sure all gen zers are, like, not. They're. They're beyond the labels.

[Pete Holmes]

They're beyond beat. They're beyond beef, man.

[Val]

I think, like, Leela, when we're like, you know, if you're a lesbian, it's okay with us. And we think we're being progressive. She, like, lesbian isn't a thing anymore. Everybody just fucks whoever they want.

[Pete Holmes]

I have a friend, Tony. He fucks the third ring of Saturn with his planetary intergalactic dick. What's he. Dad. So many things to say. The dream. I do want to finish my point on music because I think I'm. Well, carousel. I think I'm right.

[Val]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Just becoming Adam Carolla slowly. Music is dumb. I like Adam. I do.

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay. So the dream was. I was. There was this house, and it was, like, on a cliff. And I walked out. I think it was my house. And then I walked out and there was a desk. And in the desk, I'm opening the drawer. It's just in the middle of, like, kind of an alcove of rock. But it was outside.

[Val]

The desk was outside.

[Pete Holmes]

That's very important. The desk was outside.

[Val]

Sounds beautiful.

[Pete Holmes]

Thank you. There's something beautiful in the. I'm opening the drawers. Not underwear. I'm opening the drawers.

[Val]

Nobody was thinking that. Why would you keep underwear in your desk?

[Pete Holmes]

Well, people. Some people call your underwear your drawers. Oh. Like, here's an example.

[Val]

Nobody would think that.

[Pete Holmes]

Let's go to the club, man. I'm just trying to get into some drawers.

[Val]

I know. You didn't have to use it in a sentence. I know that.

[Pete Holmes]

Here's another one. You might not know. Laundry. Like, drop your laundry.

[Val]

Oh, really?

[Pete Holmes]

My dad would say that. I think it's an army thing. He's not. He was never in the army. But they would say, like, drop your knocks and socks. Maggots. I love how they always say maggot in the movies. And you're like, was it.

[Val]

Where are they saying, was it maggot? Maggot.

[Pete Holmes]

Was it maggot?

[Val]

Oh, boy, what a terrible. You know what? In the army, they're very rude.

[Pete Holmes]

That is a funny sketch. All right, maggots, line up. Excuse me. Rude.

[Val]

That is so rude.

[Pete Holmes]

I think they've had to fold some of that in.

[Val]

I would.

[Pete Holmes]

It's the weirdest thing to add polity to. You know, what is the word?

[Val]

Quality. A word.

[Pete Holmes]

I've.

[Val]

Politeness.

[Pete Holmes]

If it's not. I've been using it. I'm googling it.

[Val]

I'm good. You know what?

[Pete Holmes]

I'm giving it a goo. I'm giving it a go.

[Val]

So not a word. I'm googling it.

[Pete Holmes]

Polity. Like, polity definition. That is in a respectful.

[Val]

That is politely.

[Pete Holmes]

Polity. Here we go. That's a word. Polity. A form or process of civil government. Oh, My God.

[Val]

This is like when I thought. Can I say when I was saying formidable as. Like, those are my formidable years.

[Pete Holmes]

That is very delicious. That was divinely.

[Val]

That went like. I was like an English teacher when I was saying that. And then I had to go formable. Form.

[Pete Holmes]

Form.

[Val]

Formidable. Okay, but that's not right either.

[Pete Holmes]

Formidable. Formidable. But that's a pronunciation thing, I'm pretty sure.

[Val]

But if you're saying, like, my most.

[Pete Holmes]

Formidable years like, you say my formative.

[Val]

Formative.

[Pete Holmes]

That's what it is.

[Val]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Btw, I was listening to a Rupert Spira retreat, which I've unlocked. I've leveled up.

[Val]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Meaning I was rocking with rupert on the YouTube and of course, I read his books, but. But then I realized you could go on his website, Rupert spira.com weird for 10% more. And you can just listen to the retreats. Like the retreat we went to. They just report them. And I'm listening to him. And there was this guy, and of course he reminded me too much of me, but he was like. He called himself not an Anglophile, but like a language, a file, a lingua file.

[Val]

Oh.

[Pete Holmes]

He's like, and I'm a linguophile. And I immediately was like, that's not a word, sir, I just took your dinner. Like, you don't get dinner today. You can't say you're filing like, because.

[Val]

That'S so pretentious and.

[Pete Holmes]

But also so familiar. That wouldn't bother me.

[Val]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

But I saw him doing what I do a lot, which is try to talk fancy. I like talking fancy, but it's just a tongue starvation.

[Val]

It really is, But I love it kind of the worst.

[Pete Holmes]

I actually. I think it language, when used well.

[Val]

He'S struggling to say it. When you talk so good, that's a Steve Martin bet.

[Pete Holmes]

He goes, the English language, so few people speak with pizzazz.

[Val]

Isn't that good with pizzazz.

[Pete Holmes]

But one of the things I like about flowery or deliberate language is it communicates a certain. And I'm not even talking about fancy language, but deliberate language communicates thoughtfulness, communicates like you're not a threat. Meaning if somebody's like, was that you bumped in my car?

[Val]

You know, sorry, so loud to me.

[Pete Holmes]

Or just sort of like, my fuck stick's gone real red hard, you know, or whatever it is. Actually my fuck sticks gone real red hard.

[Val]

That is really.

[Pete Holmes]

But when somebody's like, I have an erection, you're kind of like, okay. At least he's calm about it.

[Val]

I don't know. I love words and I was an English major, so that all that really I took away from that was that I hate pretentious speakers because they're using words that most people don't understand. I love deliberate.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I know.

[Val]

Like is like such a good communicator.

[Pete Holmes]

And he uses ordinary language.

[Val]

And he uses ordinary language, but he. I love a well placed right word. And I also love when somebody says a word, I don't know, that's like beautiful sounding. And I'm like, ooh, that's a good word.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, there's a but if you're invitation to learning there. Yeah, right.

[Val]

But if you're only doing that, it's just like, who is this for? It's not for the listener.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, it can be for the listener if you want to flatter their intellect, if you want to be. But that. So this guy used the word obtuse. And I was like, I. No lunch for you either.

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like you said something and it was like, but that's obtuse. And I was like, I don't know why, but obtuse is one of those words. I know where I'm out. Like, I'm already in the car. I'm already in New Mexico. I keep saying obtuse.

[Val]

I can't say obtuse. Like, if I do say that word, I'm always saying it like obtuse.

[Pete Holmes]

Of course we talk of things that matter. It must be said like obtuse.

[Val]

But what is it before we talk of things that matter?

[Pete Holmes]

Is the theater really good?

[Val]

But what is it before that in.

[Pete Holmes]

Words that must be said?

[Val]

No, but there's something in between the.

[Pete Holmes]

Talk of things that matter and words that must be said. Oh, is. It's something like, is therapy worthwhile? It's something like that.

[Val]

Something like it's something worthwhile.

[Pete Holmes]

Is the theater really dead? Yeah, that's a Paul Simon and Garfunkel song.

[Val]

Is the theater really dead?

[Pete Holmes]

I call it Paul Simon and Garfunkel out of disrespect.

[Val]

Yeah, well, that is one of the most disrespected men in America, so I don't think he's a not respected man. Hit the kink song again.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, my God. And it's. Tell me that's not the Beatles. And it's all so good, and he's all so fun. And also. And I saw her face. Now I'm a believer.

[Val]

That's not the Beatles.

[Pete Holmes]

The monkeys.

[Val]

Right? Yeah. I mean, it's a. It's the same genre.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I know. Okay, so I'll give The Beatles, the credit for spearheading the initiative. But then other people did it. I'm gonna say, well. And I'm gonna get real offensive and say, smash mouth. Yes. Just as well. It's like. It's like you sometimes you hear a song and you're like, that could have been a Nirvana song.

[Val]

Right?

[Pete Holmes]

It just wasn't. Yeah, but it's just as like, yes, it's happening. I'll be listening to songs and I'm like, this song's okay. And. And if it was a Nirvana song, it would be one of my favorite songs of all time.

[Val]

Meaning, like, if nothing about it changed, you just found out that Nirvana did it.

[Pete Holmes]

I mean, with Kurt's. Kurt. Kurt's voice. Kurt. Yes, Kurt it.

[Val]

And that's what I'm saying is, like, I'm sure if I played the right Taylor Swift song, the right Olivia Rodrigo song, and the right Billie Eilish song, all three to my mom.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. She wouldn't.

[Val]

She would think they were all the same person because they're. Because she's like. She hasn't put in the hours to notice the nuance. And that goes back what people have done.

[Pete Holmes]

So those are audio files that love. It's like they sip wine and they taste boot leather, you know? And some people are like, that was good wine, and that's fun. Gives life meaning.

[Val]

Boot leather in the wine.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. That's one of the flavors you can taste.

[Val]

Really?

[Pete Holmes]

Leather. Yeah. You might not say boot leather.

[Val]

Such a fancy episode.

[Pete Holmes]

This is fancy.

[Val]

Listen to me sip my Queen of the south tea.

[Pete Holmes]

This episode is so fancy. It's being shot up your already clean butt.

[Val]

Okay. It's getting less fancy by the second.

[Pete Holmes]

So in the same way that people that pay attention to music enjoy that, you're like, well, the reason the Kinks isn't a Beatles song, they never would have had a bridge like that or Paul would have brought it, you know?

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I think the people that love language are also trying to find the others. You know, it's a way of. So if you talk to me and you use a word that I love. Formerly Polity. Wrong.

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Anyway, what I was trying to say was this dude was. Was bugging me only because he reminded me of me. And I don't remember what my point was.

[Val]

Well, I was also going to say.

[Pete Holmes]

Obtuse, and I hated it. That might have been enough of a.

[Val]

Point in the beginning in defense of, like, Southern language. I actually think they are often great communicators. Oh, yeah. And there is, like, a Tongue in cheek. Like, there is something. It's. It's almost more impressive because they're communicating with. This is a generalization, but I'm talking about, like, the. The dialect of the culture is often communicating with less vocabulary words.

[Pete Holmes]

We must have talked about this before. Go ahead.

[Val]

And like. And also with more sayings. And there's some great things like, you know, you can't polish a turd. Like, that comes. That, like, is very valuable for a lot of things.

[Pete Holmes]

I completely agree.

[Val]

And also my grandpa. My papa used to say, who was Southern, used to say, sometimes I think, well, and sometimes I just don't know. And that is the most profound thing anybody could ever say. That's beginner's mind. Like, that's beautiful.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. I love it. My English teacher, Kevin Murray, at Lexington High School, gave us a lesson. And this. This was a. This was one of those, aha Moments. I'm a freshman. And he goes, which one of these is. Is a better example of clear communication or good communication? And I still remember the example. The first one I can't quite do, but he goes, the speedometer on my balometer. Like, he says all these watch terms. And then he goes, me and Bill go fish tomorrow. Don't rhyme. And I was like, well, obviously it's the first one, Mr. Murray. I got this one. The first one is good communication. And that was a nice, humbling moment. Can't really remember why I brought that guy up.

[Val]

But also. You mean Mr. Murray?

[Pete Holmes]

No, no, the guy at the retreat. I guess it was just like, I'm with you. But also, in defense, this is boring. I'm bored. I hate this.

[Val]

Well, I think you have shared that, the Mr. Murray thing, and I probably shared this, but I remember my favorite teacher, who, in hindsight, I mean, he was an old man, so, like, there I'm sure were some things that were overlooked as far as teaching in, like, a, you know, more woke way. But he. Mr. Miller is very close to Mr. Murray. He. His name was Steve Miller. Like, Steve Miller band. Anyway, he. He was my freshman English teacher, and we sat down on the first day of school, and he had on the. The board written, mean to. Don't pick no cotton. It's so similar.

[Pete Holmes]

Mean to no pick.

[Val]

Mean to. Like in quotes. Don't pick no cotton. But he might not have had it in quotes. It was, like, supposed to be intentionally kind of confusing, and we were gonna, like, analyze it to get to where we were.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't get the mean to part.

[Val]

So this is how we felt. You don't have to.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, but I don't like the way this is making me feel.

[Val]

Okay, well, then you're experiencing what he wanted.

[Pete Holmes]

No pick no cotton.

[Val]

So mean to don't pick no cotton. And so we were all like. And he was like, does anybody know what this means? And it was silent, and we were all, like, scared. Like, oh, no. And then we, like, analyzed it to. And what it means is, like, mean to. Like I meant to. Doesn't do. The trick is the white way of saying it. Like, so mean to don't pick no cotton is like. And I think it's from something that I don't know. I can't remember. But it's like it doesn't get the job done. If you meant to, it doesn't matter. The job isn't done. Like, so you're. Why is it in parentheses so your intentions. It's not in parentheses. It's in quotes, quotations. Mean to. Saying like I meant to doesn't get the job done.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, I see.

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I thought for some reason mean to was in parentheses. So I was like, breaking it down.

[Val]

Maybe I said parentheses almost mathematically.

[Pete Holmes]

The whole thing is in quotes.

[Val]

Yeah, but.

[Pete Holmes]

But it said mean to no pick no cotton.

[Val]

Mean to don't pick no cotton. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. No, I get it.

[Val]

Yeah. Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Val]

No, I get it whole. And it's like, memorable because you go from being so confused, like, I don't understand what this is.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that's. And. And me and Bill going, fish tomorrow don't rain.

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm like, great.

[Val]

Yeah. And I wish. I'd like to think that that part of that lesson was like, this is as equally valuable a way of communicating as anything. But I don't know if it was. I think.

[Pete Holmes]

So this brings me to what I was kind of trying to say. I remember what I was. To trying going to say about that guy is he said at one point he was like. And when we were in the meditation, it upset in me. That. And it's just really funny when people like. I'm like. Is wrong. In fact, from where I was calling the game, I was like, he was wrong a bunch. And I was just going like, just say I felt upset during the meditation. Like it upset in me or all these things. And I was like.

[Val]

And he said all of that after he said he was a lingua file.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Val]

And you're asking for it if you say that because then your speech better be immaculate. Immaculate.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But it was. Here's in defense of speaking. I think everything we do, including even how we dress ourselves or how we do or don't clean our hair or whatever it might be, is an indication of thoughtfulness. And I think thoughtfulness is an extension of how measured are you and how deliberate are you. That's just another way of saying measured. But, like, trace it all the way back. Like, how conscious are you? Like, how well is there? Like. So I told you that I've been alone a lot, shooting the movie in Winnipeg, and I got stoned one night. And I noticed that sometimes when you get stoned, you get a good look at all these different voices that are sort of seats on your council. And one of them shows up and is like, I don't even remember what he was saying, but it was very basic. It was like, you're a fraud. Like, you're an idiot. Like, you don't care about anybody. You don't even care about this or whatever it might be. Yeah, and when I'm stoned, I just go, no, no, no. And, like, literally, like, send them back down to the depths of hell from where they came. Or like, I was joking that, you know, I was watching the Simpsons to, like, laugh. And then there's an episode where Ned Flanders is trying to date because his wife is dead. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like, and they're just like, since your wife died. And I'm like, oh, no, no, no, no, no. Like you. Because weed can make you fixate. And I'm like, don't fixate on that. So what are we talking about? We're talking about the awareness, but let's just say your mind, your mind's ability to self govern, meaning which of these voices am I going to encourage and which am I going to shush down? And that governance bleeds out into behavior. It even bleeds out into posture. Like, why do we. A cop has good posture. Cops a bad example. It's such a sticky, sticky wicket. But, like, a politician would have good posture and a clean suit and nice hair. They're trying to say, look, I govern myself well, right? I can govern you. Like the big Lebowski couldn't. I mean, he could because he's so beloved, but somebody that looked like that, you'd be like, this guy can't even get out of his robe. And it's 4pm that's interesting. I'm going to stick the landing here. Language is a way. And being polite. See, I've learned it's not polity. Being polite is a way of Indicating to someone I'm in my right mind.

[Val]

Mm.

[Pete Holmes]

So if I come up and say the fucking gas pump isn't working, it's coming out like a little trickle and piss.

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay. This person is unregulated, untrustworthy, dangerous.

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Same person, same problem. Good afternoon. I'm sorry to bother you. These are all indications that I am under control. And you can. You can trust and merge with me. Which is what? Now we're really getting off. Off the rails. But, like, what makes a sociopath so troubling is because they can mimic someone who's well governed. And on the inside, their Heath Ledgers. The Joker.

[Val]

Totally. That's really interesting because I wonder and bet that that is not only I. It definitely seems like that is a cultural idea. And it's like, you know, a little bit.

[Pete Holmes]

You mean American?

[Val]

Yes, I mean Western. I think that that's maybe what.

[Pete Holmes]

We.

[Val]

Decided is like a very, you know, and probably like around the Victorian times. I don't know if I have that right. We've decided it's like a very, you know, like, there is civilization, and this is how civilized people speak and act.

[Pete Holmes]

But those are all reflections of what it's like to be civilized on the inside. Like, that's why it's like, look, I've put on this wig and I've. And I wore this very clean garment. You're trying to indicate that you're well run.

[Val]

But does well run mean you don't feel anger? You don't. You're not in touch with your shadow, you don't have an animal side. You don't want sex, you're not horny.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, this is why. Look at how you can show that in your look. You know what I mean?

[Val]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Arguably, that's my look is like, I wear clothes that have stains on them. I'll go in. I'm not trying to brag, but I will go on stage with, like, just like a white stain down. Shouldn't have said white right down the front of my pants. And I'm just like. And I come on stage, I'm a little winded and a little sweaty. Besides, it's just in the handicap restroom because it's a one seater. Don't overanalyze that.

[Val]

Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

So, but I'm saying, like, there are cues. I was just on getting on the airplane coming home yesterday, and I was looking at this woman, and, you know, she was probably in her 60s, and she had, like, this really wild, almost like Cruella de Vil style haircut, and I was like, look at you. Like it was dyed. She looked like a skunk. And I was like, okay, you're trying to tell me about your inner reality, which is like, I'm together.

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like it's not like the real punk rock thing to do is like color your hair with a magic marker or like it's bleached and it's grown out and you're saying like, I'm fucking in touch with my wild side. Like I'm real. This woman wasn't that. But she was saying like, I'm kind of funky. And then I looked down at her jacket. I guess it was like a long cardigan and it had like all this like fake graffiti on it. And I'm reading it and one of them was just like a one way sign. And one of them just said like, I think it just said rock and roll. And I'm like, so in that moment, I believe it or not, I actually wasn't judging her. That sounds like something I would judge real hard. But I was just kind of like, isn't it funny that that's just one of the choices you can take off the rack at a whatever the fuck.

[Val]

At a normal store because it's representing your insides and you're like, yeah, we, but somebody else made enough.

[Pete Holmes]

That's what I'm saying is like what I liked when I was a punk rock person was like, you'd write whatever you wanted to write on your jacket, right? You know what I mean? You wouldn't just buy a pre made someone else's dumb idea of wildness sewn in some third world country and shipped to a Target and sold to you for 1295. And you're like, look, I'm fucking. But I'm also.

[Val]

The idea to write your own thing on a jacket was sold to you and you were part of the group that did that.

[Pete Holmes]

Welcome to the conversation. Where have you been? I'm just kidding. No, I completely agree.

[Val]

I do. Going back to the like cultural thing, I. I understand what you're saying and I certainly take comfort in it in that way. But I think it can be, I would imagine cultures where they. Even the ones that I like, my Italian friend and my Basque sister in law, find it incredibly unnerving when people are taught are always composed and communicating in this way who they know have pent up anger. It's like the WASP thing and it's like feels like Stepford wifey robot. Like you can't trust it. You never know how somebody actually feels. I agree because it's not. So we did have this idea of you're like, be well spoken, be well managed. Don't go too deep into your personal stuff, you know, and like.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Val]

And so I was.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Val]

Yeah. I just think that their language for sure is how we control how people see our inner world. Or it can be how you communicate your inner world. But more often than not, it's how we.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay, I see. I was sort of disagreeing with you when you were saying that's a western thing. But then now I'm coming around on it because there are situations and groups. Take a biker gang where being like, pardon me, gentlemen, but I can't help but notice there's a scrape on my car that perfectly aligns with the. The handbrake on your motorbike is not correct either.

[Val]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

So there's all these, like, in that situation that's unsafe because you sound like a narc or something.

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You have to adapt and change it all the time. I was going to tell you when we. You and I grew up similarly and when I was an evangelical and pretty much a fundamentalist evangelical, I was, I just, I. I had a conversation recently where I remembered the games that I was playing when I was an evangelical and one of the ways that I would sort of tolerate things but like, really, I was like, not about it. Anyway, I think it's an interesting conversation. We were talking and it was a great conversation and the person I was talking to is very thoughtful and. And we had a wonderful chat. So. This isn't me.

[Val]

Who are we on now? Who were you having a conversation with?

[Pete Holmes]

Well, I'm not saying.

[Val]

Oh, okay.

[Pete Holmes]

But I'm also just saying in case they heard it, I enjoyed this conversation.

[Val]

Okay. You're doing all the pop ups before. Got it. You did a pop up on my conversation at coffee. Yeah, like, because I was telling about what Lila said and you interrupted to be like. But just so you know, tell the other side. I was like, you don't want to misrepresent all of these, all these prefaces beforehand.

[Pete Holmes]

No, that's fair. That's fair. Oh, I didn't finish the dream. So I'm looking in the drawers. I'm looking. Don't worry, I'm going to get. I'm going to get. I won't forget the conversation. We're looking through the drawers and it's photos of you and me and Lila, like all these personal photographs and then there are all these writings and like documents, like, like not this, but like birth certificates and Social Security cards. And, like. And all the drawers were just, like, easy to open, and there were lamps and stuff. And I'm, like, turning them off because I'm like, it could rain. Like, what is going on here? And then I went in the house, and the dream kind of went in a different direction from there, but I was like, what was that? And I was like, oh, that's what it's like being on social media and having a podcast and sharing your life all the time. We just have a desk that we leave outside with photos of our most intimate moments.

[Val]

That's true.

[Pete Holmes]

And I was like, anyone can come and look at this.

[Val]

I know.

[Pete Holmes]

I was like that. It's weirder. What's weird is that we don't have that dream constantly. I know my unconscious was trying to be like, it's pretty weird.

[Val]

I. I go back and forth about it, too, because, you know, so many people, like, so many of our public friends don't post pictures of their kid. And, like, I think that's so. Makes so much sense and is maybe even correct. And then, like, you know, I posted a video of me cutting my bangs and crying about it. Like, there. There's like, we're really letting people in. We'll put. I'll post videos of us in, like, some of our most intimate moments where we're, like, in our pajamas and you're making me laugh, or we're, like, doing the singing game or whatever, but. And so I have to look at the compulsion to do that. But I think going back to what you were saying about church, being raised in church, and especially being the pastor's kid, like, so much of my life, even even kind of unknowing to my parents, meaning, like, indirectly, like, they weren't necessarily realizing that they were doing this to us, but was about perception, how things are perceived. And I think that happens not just to the pastors. It's like, if you're agreeing to be a part of this community where we're trying to be as wholesome as possible.

[Pete Holmes]

This goes right into what I was gonna talk about.

[Val]

It goes. Yeah, it's like, it. You. It's so much more about how things look to the outside than it is about what's actually happening on the inside. And so it's very healing for both of us to be like, I'm just showing you my whole life. This is what it is.

[Pete Holmes]

It's a correction. Absolutely.

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You're really reminding me. You know, there's that expression, the fruits of the spirit. Like, you're judged by, like, what kind of fruit you grow on your tree. Meaning like what comes out of you Just sort naturally, I suppose.

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I was like, to me, the feel. And I, I, I'm not speaking for all church going folks. I'm just saying for me it was a game of faking it, like pretending you had been converted basically. And, and by the way, there's this in the new age movement as well. We go on retreats and everyone's like, hello. You know, so like people be faking and, and that's, that's fine, people.

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But like that leads into the conversation I had, which was somebody asked me very generously, they were like, if you believe, like if you love Jesus, why don't you consider yourself a Christian? And I hadn't been asked that ever directly. And I really unpacked it, I think quite nicely. And I'm gonna go pee and we'll do the mid rolls. And when I come back, I really am excited to talk to you about this, what your answer is and the. I want to talk a little bit about the. I had a really weird night where like something like almost was like channeled through me and I wrote something very, very quickly that I really, really like and I want to talk about that happening.

[Val]

Oh, stay tuned.

[Pete Holmes]

We'll be right back after this urination. Pardon the interruption, weirdos. This episode is brought to us by our friends at armra. You guys know I am obsessed with, obsessed with ways to strengthen my immunity, my gut health, as well as my fitness, endurance and my metabolism, as well as my hair and my skin's radiance. And I recently discovered one product that does all of that and it couldn't be easier to incorporate into my life. Talking about Armor Colostrum. Colostrum is one of those things that keeps coming up in conversation with my friends. What is it? Colostrum is the first nutrition we receive in life and contains all of the essential nutrients our bodies need to thrive. I'm talking about reactivating hair growth and glowing skin by reducing inflammation and puffiness in your face and neck, as well as stimulating stem cells to produce collagen and increase elasticity. Talking about igniting your metabolism and fortifying gut health so you feel less bloated and lighter in general, while replenishing your microbiome, stabilizing blood sugar and accelerating fat burning, as well as fueling your fitness performance and your recovery. Armor Colostrum is a proprietary concentrate of bovine colostrum that harnesses over 400 living bioactive nutrients that rebuild the barriers of your body and Fuel Cellular health for a host of research backed health benefits. It's wholly natural, sustainable and was developed with the highest integrity talking about grass fed in the United States. And they guaranteed the highest potency and bioavailability of any colostrum on the market. For results that you can actually see and feel and I can attest to that, I add it to my smoothie. You don't even notice, but you notice the feeling. Meaning you don't notice it in the smoothie but the results are palpable. So we've worked out a special offer for weirdos. Receive 15% off your first order. Go to tryarmora.com weird or enter weird to get 15% off your first order. That's t r Y A R m r a.com weird we're also brought to us by our friends. Of course I'm wearing them. YouTubies the perfect gene Guys, I love the perfect jean. In a nutshell, it's a stretchy jean that no one needs to know. Meaning it looks as good as any designer jean that I've paid way too much for. I've worn it to movie premieres, I've worn it on late night. I never don't wear them. But the secret is 2% spandex and 2.5% rayon for extra comfort. Meaning they're as comfortable as pajama pants. In fact I have slept in them. They are that comfortable. They're also the best looking. I love the dyes. I love the colors. They have a new khaki dye that I really really love. I'm wearing this very dark sort of midnight blue one which goes with everything. They're also incredibly, incredibly well made. I never have to replace them. They don't tear, they don't rip, things don't pop off. They are awesome, high end, maximum durable and they spare your nuts. Cuz they give you that stretch you need for that comfort in your man zone so your nuts ain't crushed. Whether you're working with a lemon or a lentil, a three leaf clover, a big old honk and eggplant, the Perfect Gene has you covered. I absolutely love them. They also have incredible T shirts. Just check them out. It's a great company and a great product and everything they make is so so comfortable and looks incredible. The perfect jean nyc that's www the perfect j e a n nyc did I say that? The perfect gene nyc use code weirdo for 20% off at checkout. That's a great discount. Weirdo at checkout for 20% off all right, we're back. Great success.

[Val]

Did you guys sing Jesus Lover of my Soul in your church?

[Pete Holmes]

Jesus lover of my soul. Jesus.

[Val]

That's the Beatles let you go. Yeah. Okay, now sing this part. No, no, no, no.

[Pete Holmes]

You've taken me to the higher plane.

[Val]

Was that what it was?

[Pete Holmes]

I think so. We set me up on the rock.

[Val]

Okay, Now, I knew we sang it as. You've taken me from the miry Clay.

[Pete Holmes]

Miry Clay.

[Val]

Or maybe it was Meyer and Clay. But we said my. But I said Myri. And that's not a word.

[Pete Holmes]

The Myrish clay, which upset in me a very obtuse feeling. Folding it all in. Anyway, I. I think this is interesting, but it really came down to a couple things, one of which is, who cares what you believe? That's a big one for me. Sure. Whereas when I was in the church, it was all about what you believe and, like, what you say, like what you, like, say happened and Israel. And because he was saying, do you believe in the. The resurrection? And I was like, that's just not really on my list of important things, like what I. Because I go, you can believe it or not believe it, but it really just matter. And I kept going, like, it's all just right now. It's just this moment. Like, if the devotion to the thought that a man physically conquered death transforms you right now, then follow that path and stay on it, because that's. That's getting you to the. To the place, to the recognition of yourself and your. And your. Your safety as God's child. But I was like, the thought, and I hadn't thought about this in a long time, that we die and our brains are scanned like UPC codes at the grocery store, and then something comes up on the computer. Does believe resurrection, does believe virgin birth. Does believe sinless life. Does believe. Whatever it is, did go to church, whatever. Whatever it is, did pray for forgiveness, did ask Jesus to come into your heart. All these, like, this checklist.

[Val]

It's like admin. We get obsessed with the admin of it.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, you're going to go to the DMV and have to prove.

[Val]

You have your documents to prove.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I just. I had a moment of gratitude that I was like, I'm just grateful to not be in that mindset anymore because I didn't like it. I was like, is this right? And you and I have talked about asking Jesus into our heart dozens and dozens of times just to make sure it was sticking.

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But this, I think, this, I think is even more interesting is. And Richard Rohr helped me with this, too. Is it all about. It's. It all comes. The reason I don't identify as a Christian in the way that we think about Christians is atonement theory, which is the idea that we need a blood sacrifice, which you tell me if you agree with this. That is one of those ideas that if it wasn't, like, given to you and reinforced for the first couple decades of your life, when you just look at it, you're like, that is a really wacky, with respect kind of idea that God, the singularity, the essential infinite point of reality, just behind, within and throughout this moment and every moment is like a debt collector that's like, well, you fucked up and somebody has to die. I'm like. Like the Mafia. Where are we getting this? Like, so. And I was very pleased with myself that I was like, to me, it's all about the prodigal son. Everybody knows I love the story of the prodigal son, but here's my new point that I've never made about the prodigal son. Everybody knows the son asks the father for his inheritance, goes into the world, squanders that it's sort of implied that it's on women and alcohol, loses it all, and ends up working with the pigs. Which I always say, for a Jewish man was like a way of saying the lowest of the lows. He's disgraced, he's an outcast. And then when he's basically at death's door, he goes. He remembers that he is the man. He's not a king, but it's fun to call him a king, that he's the king's son. And if I go back, he'll have mercy on me and maybe make me a servant in his. In his big house, his kingdom. And he goes back. And of course, the punchline we all love, the father's not mad, makes no mention of him squandering or wasting or flandering or drinking or whatever he did working with pigs. There's no the king. The father doesn't even acknowledge that that happened, and welcomes him, throws a huge party, gives him a ring on his finger and new sandals on his feet and a new robe and slaughters the fattened calf, which is like, we're. We're having a banger, right? That's the story. There's another part. There's sort of a. There's a epilogue to it, but that's basically the story. And I was in real time. I came up with this because I haven't been thinking about if I believe that that is the Gospel. And I summarize it by saying, dad's not mad. Dad's not mad. We think Dad's mad. Dad's not mad. I was like. You'll notice in the story, Jesus is closer, as I've called it a million times. Meaning you ask any, the most rigorous historian of the Gospels, they all agree that the prodigal son was closed. The most authentic, identifiably accurate, whatever. So you'll notice in that story, which is Jesus's big thing, his big finale, there's no Jesus character in the story as we've come to understand him, meaning traditional Christianity. The way I was raised, the prodigal son would go like this. I asked my father for my inheritance. I go into the wilderness. I squander it on booze and women and everything. I'm at the lowest of the low. I'm working with pigs. Then a kind stranger comes to me and says, let's return to your father. I'll let him torture me. I'll let him kill me. Even though you fucked up, I'll say, please, sir, you're a merciful father. Murder me and you can live. That would be the atonement theory. But what happens is the son doesn't believe anything new. He doesn't come to a realization. He recognizes. He remembers. He recognizes what was always and already true, which is that he's the Father's son. He just remembers, wait, I'm the son. To a powerful and wealthy and loving father. He's. So it's not a new belief, and it's not a repentance, and it's not a scapegoating of the blame. It's just I forgot, right? I'm my father's son. And I was like, to me, conversion isn't believing, repenting, even in the way that we've come to understand it. It's just remembering, wait, I'm God's child, yeah. And I can go home and he won't be mad. And it'll be even better. I'll think, maybe I'll have mercy and make me a servant. He doesn't. He makes me. And he says the punchline. The Father says, you are always with me and everything I have is yours. So the Father doesn't even acknowledge that he left. He's like, I was as with you there as you are with me now in the walls of the kingdom. And I was like, that's the good news. And Richard Rohr helped me understand that the atonement theory and this leaning into the idea of a blood sacrifice and, like a debt needing to be paid, only got the volume turned up on it. Theologically, I think it's 1054, which is one of those Constantinople Nicaea things. And there's a split in the church. And I'm gonna butcher some of these facts, but, like, Eastern Orthodox doesn't acknowledge.

[Val]

Emphasize it or even acknowledge it.

[Pete Holmes]

It doesn't emphasize it at all. There's no to me. I'm like, that is the good news. And. And do you understand what I'm saying With the sort of. I don't want to say perverse or, like, inciting words. I'm just saying, like, it's a very strange idea that we're like, God is mad and he will accept someone else's torture and death on my stead, even though I deserve it. And I tried to make the point. I was like, I think that has more to do with the fact that we're human and there's all of this, like, innate, like, I shit you come out of your mother's vagina on blood. And I'm not trying to be funny here. I'm just saying, like, there's a lot of, like, gross and kind of shameful things about just being alive, pooping and starting.

[Val]

You know what's funny about that is I think actually Christian culture is where we started thinking that those things were shameful because we started thinking that the body was gross and bad.

[Pete Holmes]

And I. I can't. I can't trace that back. Here's my final point. I'm going to give it to you for the rest of the episode. Absolutely not true. Richard says Jesus didn't die to change God's mind about us. He died to change our mind about God. And. And I would even take that into a Ram Dassi place, saying, like, Jesus was showing, demonstrating that when you know who you are, even death isn't frightening.

[Val]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Because you know you can't be destroyed.

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And you know that the people, quote, unquote, destroying you are also you. And it's all okay. Forgive them. They don't know what they do. Forgive them. They don't know who they are is another way to put it. But I will die because what. Everybody's so obsessed with your death. This is a person living outside of time. This is a person living outside of the idea that, like, a good life. And if I was 98 years old and eating a strawberry shortcake and died on a deathbed surrounded by my loved ones, that's a Good death and a crucifixion is a bad death. He's just like, what are you talking about? All of this living, dying is. Isn't. Isn't who we are. And we need to. We need to recognize and go back to the Father. Go back to the loving father.

[Val]

I. Yeah, I think so. And what I like to think. And really, that's like, all this is, is what I like to think or what you like to think. That's like, what beliefs are meaning.

[Pete Holmes]

It's interesting.

[Val]

I can hear my. My, you know, like, background or people saying, like, well, it's not about what you like to think. It's the truth. And it's like, well, that's what you.

[Pete Holmes]

So.

[Val]

So this is what we're going. But what is the valuable way of thinking of atonement and all of that for me? Because I remember being a child and hearing like, God, like, Jesus sacrificed his life for you. That's how much he loved you. And feeling like, like such a swell.

[Pete Holmes]

I mentioned it all the time.

[Val]

Of love.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, like, liked it.

[Val]

Yeah. And I did also feel like. And it was like, because you're a sinner. And I'm like, I just got here.

[Pete Holmes]

I mention it constantly. But Jo Rosa has the best bet where he goes. People are like, you got to believe in Jesus. He died for your sins. I never asked him to.

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I love. I just thought that was so funny.

[Val]

That's right. So. But. So they did have that underbelly. But I also remember because I didn't have the same thing where I felt like I had to pretend to believe. Like, I was totally bought in. And. And a big part of that was because my parents and our community did include the heart space. And this is what it was like coming to me as you were saying that I'm like, it really is often in church, or at least in my church experience, it was like the head and the hearts narrative of God and Jesus at war. So the way that our brains work is the, like, tallying admin. Like, you're in, you're out. Who's in? Who's out? Who's it? Like, where am I? Where do I stand? Where is this trying to control. Control all of these really heavy, deep, hard things. And then the heart goes in and it's like, there's grace, though. So it covers all. Like, God loves you unconditionally, and. And there's so much flow and space. But then. And so the heart is, in my opinion, what I like to think. 100. Correct. The head is Scrambling to try and make sure that it's not going to hell. Because once you put the threat of hell into something, your brain takes over because it's terrified. And it's like, all right, well, then how do I know for sure that I'm not going to hell? Yeah, that sounds terrible.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Val]

But the heart is, like. There's space for all of it. It's covered. Like I said, it's covered by the love of God.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Val]

So I had enough heart space in my upbringing that I definitely got messed up by the head stuff. But the heart sort of is my touchstone back in. So all of that is to say, the way that is helpful for me now to think about, like, the story of the crucifixion and resurrection is that God came down. I'm still into that. God came in a human form, which, guess what, so are all of us. God in human form, but in this, like, divine way that we could really see it and spoke to the people of that time in a way that they would understand love. So they already were sacrificing animals. So that's how they understood. They understood sacrifice in the form of, like, murdering an innocent.

[Pete Holmes]

Vocabulary of the time.

[Val]

It was using the vocabulary of the time, like, murdering an innocent lamb for this.

[Pete Holmes]

What would he do now?

[Val]

Exactly. I think he would do something completely different. It wasn't about what it was. It was communicating away.

[Pete Holmes]

You're a little genius, aren't you? This is beautiful.

[Val]

It's just. And then that makes me experience. It's like God wanted us to remember the ultimate truth. The thing behind everything is this profound, like, deafening love. That bright, that.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Val]

Is the only thing that you hear and feel and experience because it's so big.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Val]

And how do I do that to these people at this time in this. This moment in time.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Val]

And. And so, like. And then that helps me access the love again. And the resurrection is what happens when we remember love even in the smallest thing. So when, like, a couple fighting, when you have been fighting this fight for 20 years, and you're like, how are we still arguing about this one thing? And you won't budge, and I won't budge. And the first person who, like, reaches out a hand and says, like, look, I love you. I don't care what. I'll drop it. Like, I just want to be with you.

[Pete Holmes]

Hear stories like that in divorces where they're like, just take whatever you want.

[Val]

Yeah. And, like, even that little act of love, something died and something is being resurrected. We are resurrected every time we remember love, right?

[Pete Holmes]

We're resurrected every moment.

[Val]

Moment. That's true.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Val]

But that's.

[Pete Holmes]

That's really beautiful, Val. That was another. When I say sticking point. It was just something that me and this very compassionate, thoughtful person agreed. We differed on, which is I was like, I think God didn't come down into the world. God already is the world. What else could it be? And Jesus recognized, like, the prodigal son. Wait, I know my dad. I'm gonna go back. I know my source. So I and the Father are one. Dad's not mad. You are always with me. Everything I have is yours. I'm just gonna go home. Before I die, I'm gonna go home. And. But then I was like. And he was like, okay, yeah, we were all on that. And I was like, but I believe other people have done that, and I think that's our charge to do as well, not get our. Our passes stamped to go into some eternal afterlife.

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That remains to be seen. What? What? The afterlife? I think that's ineffable. It's not something for us to talk about. We're doing the best we can here. But I was like.

[Val]

Like.

[Pete Holmes]

I was like, have you heard the expression Josh Radner told me this one. I forget who said it, but he goes, I believe Jesus Christ is the one and only son of God, and so am I. And so are you.

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I was like. I think, like, yeah, what are we doing? It's like, when I asked Rob Bell, I was like, what do you think Jesus would say if he came back? And he said, why are you guys still talking about me?

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because there's a certain kind of scapegoating. Not of guilt and shame and sin, but there's even a scapegoating of, like, well, he did it. He remembered God. He remembered himself. He became love. He forgave. And it's like, I think we're. And again, you know, I can only do this for stretches. If you want to get the mind back into it, be compassionate, be forgiving, be loving. But, like, it's just this. It's just this moment. And I even said to him, I was like, if you thinking Jesus was the only one, if that's getting you, if that's converting you, fucking go for it. I'm so happy for you. And I go, that's kind of romantic.

[Val]

And I didn't mean, like, that's 100% the way of the feminine mystic.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes. Fall in love.

[Val]

It's. Yeah. It's use whoever. And you. It doesn't have to just be one. But if it is just one, then great.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Val]

And use whoever you need to literally, like, fall, like imagining your arms are open and you're trust falling backwards into love. And that's conversion. Like merge with love, that. That guru, that God. So much that you merge into each other and you remember there is no separation.

[Pete Holmes]

You remember.

[Val]

You remember like a member on a body. That's right.

[Pete Holmes]

Absolutely. The. The catch. Why I don't. Again, so why am I not just a Christian is then, if it's only Jesus? That path becomes very hard for me when you start going, well, what about the billions of people that don't believe that? And then when you start throwing them into a furnace, I go, this doesn't work for me.

[Val]

Absolutely. And that's why. Yeah. If you ask why I'm not a Christian, I. I would say it has more to do with what Christianity, the position it takes on what other people should believe.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Val]

Because I really think it's. I think it's gorgeous and so uniquely human that we need all kinds of different ways of getting there.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Val]

I don't think that's a flaw. I think that's a beautiful tapestry that is not even close to a problem. It's. It's beautiful. It's stunning.

[Pete Holmes]

This is sort of. I don't know if I'm using this right, but it upset in me a post. A postmodern. I'm just kidding.

[Val]

It upsetted me.

[Pete Holmes]

Upset in me. I don't know if. Moreover, I'll just say this is a very modern conversation. I was reading something recently about, like, we're sort of living in a Tower of Babel time, meaning the exchange of information is so great. And that's where the burden, meaning just the task comes in to make these greater global considerations. Meaning when we were children and we were just in a little village, in that way, it was beautiful to fall in love with Jesus in that way. And the specialness of. Of him and the devotion to that idea was working for me. But we do live in a world where there's just so much exchange.

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So I'm like, there was. There was probably a time where that would have worked. And now we're living in a time where I'm like, we're asking bigger questions.

[Val]

Well, that's right. I was actually thinking of it in terms of spiral dynamics, which I don't know a ton about, but that's also a. Richard Rohr and Rob love that thing. And there. Because I remember Richie saying that, that there's Actually an argument to be had about children being raised in a religion because they think in a very black and white way.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Val]

So it makes sense. I think that makes sense. But you also have to be really careful because also because they think in a black and white way. If you tell them they're going to hell, that's all they're going to be thinking about because that's terrifying.

[Pete Holmes]

The demons can press their face on the window.

[Val]

Yeah. And that's like my brother's telling my mom, like hell was such a horrible thing for me to like get over and. And my mom was like, really? I'm surprised we didn't talk about it that much. And I'm like, yeah, you really only have to mention it once. But she was thinking of it from a grown up, nuanced way where she could consider all the nuances and the children can't do that.

[Pete Holmes]

That brings me to my next kind of part of that conversation was I was like, what sin is and what hell is and what evil is and all that sort of stuff. And I was like, in the straight, I had never put it together like this before. But for me, sin is like forgetting. Right. And. And the behavior that I'm going to say begets that. Forgetting our shared identity as one is often selfish, bad. Like look at like lust, like unhealth, I guess you could call it unhealthy. Sex in quotes is like very like separate. It's not mergy at all. It's very like transactional Uzi sort of stuff. Yeah, but that can be anything. You can make someone's sandwich in a way that is very like forgetting. And so then I was like, to me, this is weird, but I was like saying I am a sinner is a sin in the sense that you're saying like, if sin is forgetting that you are included in the party, then saying I am a sinner is, is a sin.

[Val]

Right. You're saying I, I, well, you're identifying with the part of you that has forgotten.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. That's at a very high altitude. Of course we have flaws and things we regret doing, hurting feelings, making things, whatever. But I'm saying like this ultimate source of reality of course would be above that. But we've always made this point. It's like I've wanted to do a joke about it and I'm working on it, but it's like, let's say someone cheats on their girlfriend and they feel really, really bad about it and the girlfriend of course breaks up with them. But then like I go to A beer with this guy and over a six hour conversation, he tell, he starts telling. This kind of goes back to Alan Button. I don't know if that's even how you say it.

[Val]

No, I don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

But the therapist we were talking about last week, it's like I sit down with him and we talk for six hours and we start getting it like these ideas. He, the, the dynamics with his family was if he loved his parents, his mother, let's say a lot that was unsafe. So he became what we call anxious avoidant, which means love actually isn't safe to him. But we really get into that. He breaks down all the vulnerability of why he has a mechanism that served him in his youth. Okay, I think I need to leave and be a grown up. So I need to like sever this unhealthy codependent relationship in some way so that I can be free and become my own person. And then unfortunately that festers and mutates and becomes a person through other series of traumas and I mean real traumas that now when things get too close, you start, the protector in you starts getting afraid that you're going to disappear, you're going to die, they're going to kill you. It's a black widow, they're going to, it's a praying mantis. As soon as you mate, they're going to cut you your head off. And now you're getting very scared and you're not even ready to like look in that box. It's just, it's, it's annihilation. So instead you cheat on your girlfriend knowing she'll break up with you. And now you're free and your protector did the thing that it's, that it's assigned to do. It just doesn't have good techniques yet. Meaning that was hurtful if that's how you were feeling. In a perfect world you could tell them all of these things and say like, I just want you to know I'm getting very nervous. Like I, I'm losing myself. I'm scared of intimacy, I'm scared of commitment. I think we're going to get married, then we're going to have kids and I'm afraid I'm going to be a bad father and hurt my kids the way that I was hurt because I still have all this gunk and you know when I'm falling asleep at night, the thoughts that come or would, would terrify you or whatever it is, but most people can't do that. So you cheat and then it ends and Then you're in the clear. And the protector is like, see? Stick with me now. So over that six hour beer, we're really nursing it. I then understand the cheating person and see myself in them. And of course, forgive, because I understand.

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then I was like, but. And then the punchline that I'm working on is like, so your best friend Fred can understand you, but God is still like, oh, you up, dude?

[Val]

Right?

[Pete Holmes]

I was like, have a God that's better than your best friend Fred.

[Val]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, and there's a quote. I forget who said it, but I think it's the Sufi said, an all knowing God is an all forgiving God. Of course. Like, unforgiveness. Like, all of our attempts at forgiveness is attempts at understanding. And even if you take the most sociopathic murdering person, we'll look at what's happening with like, brain science and mental illness, you know, Like, Chris and I were talking about this this morning. It's like, like, we've gotten there with alcoholism. You know, you're like, well, you have an addiction, like, you have a disease. But then, like, mental illness takes all these different shapes, and then it gets too shaky and there's no accountability. And I'm not saying we should let murdering people walk amongst us, but there needs to be. I think that's. That's for God to be like, I understand all of it. It's another version of, if I were them, I'd be them. Meaning if I was a sociopathic killer, I'd be a sociopathic killer because I'd have their brain chemistry, I'd have their experiences. Who knows how many ways I was made unwell or born unwell or whatever it is that led to that behavior making a whole lot of sense to me. It's just. Yeah, it's hard to talk about. Even as I'm talking about, I want to. I want to. I have all these pop ups going. Like, of course I'm not for murder. You know what I mean? Because it's too much. But then I go, great. I don't even have to. We'll keep doing the best we can. But I can have the divine imagination of a God that can.

[Val]

Absolutely. And that is. Jack Kornfield and Tara Brock talk so well about forgiveness. And because, you know, it's. It. It's. If somebody has really wounded you and maybe it's like the biggest wound of your life, you're like, how can I forgive when this wound still exists? You know, like, those are like the toughest. And if they're not sorry. They've never apologized. Like all that is so tough to forgive.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Val]

And they, they taught me like you first have to forgive yourself for not being able to forgive.

[Pete Holmes]

That's very coarse.

[Val]

And then you get into the, the. And the way that you do that is by going, isn't it beautiful that I want to forgive? That I even want to. Wow. You know, it's like such an easy way to access compassion for yourself.

[Pete Holmes]

Jack Kornfield is like butter on toast.

[Val]

Oh my God, he is such a gift.

[Pete Holmes]

He's just like waking up in a Vermont bed and breakfast and there's just butter.

[Val]

I know. And jam. Like it comes to you in a tray.

[Pete Holmes]

Bread. And you're like, like, what is this?

[Val]

And like tea with milk. But I wanted to add to that.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes, of course. Tea with milk. You really are picturing exactly what.

[Val]

I know exactly what you mean. With a little vase and a flower. Absolutely. But that's what you're saying about like imagining a divine God that can forgive that. That's also what Tara, I think would say is leaning on something bigger than yourself to be able to do this thing. And my. Our friend Jen does it so well. She's always remem reminding me just through example to like ask God for help. And I know that's not going to be everybody's jam, but for me.

[Pete Holmes]

Or cup of tea.

[Val]

Yeah. With milk in it. For me. That is so helpful. It's like remembering that you are part of something bigger and using the strength and the example of that bigger thing.

[Pete Holmes]

I love this to do.

[Val]

To funnel it into your one experience.

[Pete Holmes]

This goes back to what we were talking about earlier about the signals you can have that you're governing yourself well or whatever. There's. There's a meaning. There's two, two choices inside of us. There's more than that.

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But I, I am drawn to this idea that they're one of the things from A Course in Miracles that I say all the time is I can't. You can. I resign as my own teacher. Meaning there is a beingness, a naked eternal energy that I am within which everything that I think I am appears and is known. And I resign. I just say it all the time. I go, I resign as my own teacher. I told you I was flying in yesterday. It was brutal. My pickup was 3am it's one three hour flight. Checking and waiting at the airport. I don't have to tell everybody how tiring traveling is. Two flights, Two, three and a half hour flights. I had to poop the Whole time I hadn't had any coffee and I hadn't really had any, like, good food, like, just filling food. So I'm, like, hungry. I really have to take a. I'm very, very tired and my poor body is so exhausted and aching and like, plain sleep. And. And then I'm. Had a Starbucks at LAX and I'm. I'm ordering a drink and I'm like, there's like two people ahead of me at Starbucks. I'm like, this will take five minutes. It takes like 10, 15 minutes. I'm like, watching them make other drinks. And in this moment, I'm just like the worst person in my mind. And I came home and I told you about it. I was just like, not only. Not just projected at the baristas because, you know, it wasn't. It wasn't logical like that. It was just this dark, like, diarrhea waterfall between me and the world. I was seeing through the veil of diarrhea waterfall. And everyone I saw was unsafe, inept, hurtful, wrong, violent, greedy. So I just wasn't. We don't see the world. We see ourselves. We see our. We don't see the world as it is. We see it as we are.

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And in that moment, those are. Those are humbling moments. And later, I was grateful for it. I told you that. In that moment, I was like, you've. You've done no growing. It's like that voice shows up. It's like, look at you. You're always one poop on deck and no coffee away from hating the world. And then you just go, I resign as my own teacher. The guy that needs to poop.

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And the guy that needs coffee and the guy that doesn't like being hauled around the country like a bag of lumber. Like a bag of beans. Thank you. There's no bags of lumber. We got to bag this love. He. He can't. Yeah, I'm with you.

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And that. That's why I was like, so talking to the guy about Christianity. I was like, we're so close. I really felt close.

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, I was like, we're saying a lot of similar things. And just to put a pin in it, I was like, we're really talking about a different experience. And I'm like, I'm trying to have that experience right now as we're talking, like. And I think that would be appealing to anybody. And you can stay a Christian and still yearn for that experience. Yeah, it doesn't. The beliefs don't matter. It's what gets you There. And I even said that I was like, you know, Richard talks about the signpost that says Cleveland this way. He's like, we want to go to Cleveland. Stop worshiping the sign. Doesn't matter.

[Val]

Yeah. It's like just going to the sign and thinking you're in Cleveland and going.

[Pete Holmes]

Do you. Do you like. Do you agree this sign says Cleveland this way 20 miles? I'm like, just go fucking. We're in Cleveland. And the part of me that thinks I'm not in Cleveland resigns as its own teacher.

[Val]

Also in the. You know, the one thing I would add to that, and no surprise. And I did this for myself, and it felt so good. And I was like, oh, right, I should be doing this more. I. It was some parenting thing. I was getting down on myself because I had lost all my resources in pretty much the last two days without you here. I've been so short with Leela since you've been gone.

[Pete Holmes]

You had your chance. You blew it.

[Val]

That was great.

[Pete Holmes]

Out of sight, out of mind, not as good.

[Val]

I'll wait. I had the moment where I was like, leela is. You know, she told. Basically told me that she's sad all the time, that we won't get into that story. And I was like, oh, my God, she's sad all the time because it.

[Pete Holmes]

Says she's happy all the time.

[Val]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

We're looking at. I am going to pop in here. We're talking about a child who's getting acquainted with the concepts of all the time, always, forever.

[Val]

Also getting acquainted with the feeling that she can have multiple feelings at once, or the truth that she. She can have that. And I was, like, cleaning up in the kitchen and just, like, being like, I am. I need to step up. Like, I know it's hard, but just show up for your kid in every single moment. Like, just do it. She's feeling it and you're. And this is it. Like, this is the feeling I often get and put on myself is I'm like, this isn't the practice child. This child is the real one. And you are doing damage or not go. Like, which one do you want to do? And it's so much pressure to put on myself to every moment. Show up. Yeah, you can't. That's the thing, by the way.

[Pete Holmes]

Can you resign as your own teacher that you can't?

[Val]

No, not. No. And then shut your mouth.

[Pete Holmes]

I just can't take it.

[Val]

I didn't resign as my own teacher, but I sort of did. But I just went, wait a minute. Like, stop. Can you show some kindness to yourself? Here you are. Your child told you that you're sad and you have been thinking about it all day. That seems like a pretty good mom. Like just.

[Pete Holmes]

Isn't it beautiful that you want to forgive?

[Val]

Yes, it's just. And like instantly you, you like alchemize the, the hatred and loathing into compassion and love. And of course Leela benefits from that when I'm feeling that way. And so so too Brand is for you now where when you notice that you are in that state and I know you can get so down on yourself for the ugly thoughts that you can have there. That's like intrusive thoughts, by the way, that.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I think I do have that and that. And I resist. I resent. Lately I've been resenting it. I'm like, I just hate all of the things I was taught sometimes on like it was in a good message and then there was also a bad message, sort of like snuck in there.

[Val]

But you are.

[Pete Holmes]

I hate all this stuff is in here.

[Val]

But you as somebody who can have intrusive thoughts too, you're giving them way too much weight. You're saying that they are you? Yeah, they're just, they're just like misfirings, like gas. It's like McGruber with a gun. Your brain is just like got two guns and it's shooting it all around.

[Pete Holmes]

What a great.

[Val]

And you're going like this. These bullets are me. That's who I am. And it's like, no, no, no. This is when we're unresourced and in an unsafe place. Your brain is firing all the worst things it can fire at you to try and get ahead of them, to try and protect you in some way. Mine is thinking of worst case scenarios.

[Pete Holmes]

Yours is going, look at all these.

[Val]

Idiots is attacking so that you remain safe.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh God. It's making me sad, but also feeling very seen.

[Val]

But it is, it's just like anything just being. Going to the. The body and what it's experience experiencing so that the mind will eventually calm down. But this is where Jennifer, my therapist would say, don't get tangled in the content. If you're resenting the thoughts that you're having, you're just adding resentment to the mix.

[Pete Holmes]

Wow.

[Val]

Can we, can we add some compassion and understand like it kind of first has to start with understanding what you are doing. You're like, I have. I haven't had my coffee, I have to poop. I'm really unresourced. So use that understanding instead of being like Jesus. That's all it takes for me to, like, become a nightmare.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Val]

Just use the understanding to be like. So, yeah, I'm. This isn't really me right now. I'm not able to be my highest self all the time, and that's okay. And no one is. And just like, give a little love. And I bet those. Those calm down, give a little bit, which really can look. And this is what I do when I have. I talked too much, stretch too long on this.

[Pete Holmes]

So funny.

[Val]

I. It's as simple as, like, putting a hand on your heart and going, this is really hard. That always does it for me.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I. I loved everything and I laughed. You know me so well. When we were at coffee with Chris and Jen this morning, I laughed because you guys were on a thing and talking for quite a while. And this is a uniquely me thing. I know there are other people that relate, but I'm like. I wanted. Like, Jen was talking about something hard she's going through, and I like joke options, things to sing and stuff started showing up. And I just allowed myself to have this little fantasy of me singing what I wanted to sing. All three of you looking at me and clapping and saying, you exist.

[Val]

That's exactly what it is.

[Pete Holmes]

And then going back. But instead of acting on it, I just was like. I found it humorous that I'm so scared of not existing. And in this moment too, like, you're.

[Val]

Talking and I go, yeah, I know, but that is. That is a real thing.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm not mad, but I do feel naked.

[Val]

No, but it. It. We all have our own things, and that's. And that's what you know. And some people's wounding is being interrupted. They can't handle being interrupted. And that makes perfect sense. I mean, nobody loves it, but. But I don't. But I don't have that. Where I'm like, if you're interrupting me, you are not, you know, seeing me or whatever or loving me.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Val]

And I. Because I think I've had friends or maybe fans. I don't think friends have said, like, how do you handle Pete interrupting you? And the answer is that you have this wounding of, do I exist? And I see that every time you're doing it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, exactly.

[Val]

And I am your love, and I have no problem letting it. You do whatever you need to do.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Val]

To know that you exist, because I have my own ways of doing.

[Pete Holmes]

Why, you're a love genius.

[Val]

But you put up with me mirroring and disappearing in all of my own ways of feeling. Safe. So it's not just me.

[Pete Holmes]

No. I know for whatever reason I have a timer in me that I've talked about this timer before. Just picture like a health bar in Street Fighter and it's all yellow and then it starts getting red and draining and that's like if I haven't existed in a while.

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then I actually worry that if it starts going below into the negatives that now it's weird that I haven't said something for a while. And now it's almost like I feel like I have two choices. Too much or not enough.

[Val]

Yeah. I think once you start working with internal family systems therapist.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Val]

Which we're talking about my wish for you. You will learn how to communicate to those parts in real time. And you will have more options available to you. It's about what it's about you like you will have. You will be able to find more options in the middle ground.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that's what I want because that's what I did today. I played it out.

[Val]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That's something Duncan Trestle used to teach me is like. Because I would want. Would go to a spiritual retreat is a real place where I start to vanish. Of course. And then you're like, what Duncan was like, what if Ram Dass came up to you and were like, you're enlightened. You're the most special boy in the world. And then Buddha got off a UFO and all the. All the great saints and they all said the same. What then?

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's just like kind of like fantasize that you got what you got and recognize that that wasn't. That was never it anyway.

[Val]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

What you're actually looking for is a peaceful experience and an allowing of whatever is happening.

[Val]

Yeah. I think you can picture. I picture that part of you like. I think like 12 year olds old ruddy cheeks kind of sweaty from having just done like a. An actual for everybody and just like. And like rubbing that your forehead. Like pushing your sweaty bangs out of your face and being like. Okay. It's like so easy to love that part of you because that's what it is. That's all that's happening.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Val]

And we can love that ready 12 year old and we can communicate to him like it's okay. I'll. I'll. I'll hold you while I'm talking to this other person.

[Pete Holmes]

Val, you are a genius. And it ideally would help us acknowledge and understand other people have their ready 12 year olds.

[Val]

Oh yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like if my, if my dad is losing his temper or something. It's like. Yeah. In the C.P. sepia toned mean streets of Boston in 1971.

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm sure.

[Val]

Shaking his fist at a taxi.

[Pete Holmes]

Helpful to be like. And that works.

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's okay. We can hug that. That child too. Or anybody's child.

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And we're back. Well, we're back to the idea of an all knowing God is an all forgiving God. And it starts with us. And we can. And what am I wrapping this up?

[Val]

And we can be God.

[Pete Holmes]

The finale of the morning show, season two. We're coming for you and we're gonna shake things up. Black screen. I'm like, don't, don't, don't. Give us what you think we think we want. Give us what we don't know we want.

[Val]

Yeah. Which is succession and torture us a little.

[Pete Holmes]

Succession. The show you didn't know you wanted.

[Val]

Yeah. And the show you think you don't want for the first 10 minutes and then you do. And then you can't get enough of it. All right, everybody, that's about enough of this.

[Pete Holmes]

Thank you, Val. What a gift you are. I've missed you so much. We'll get to some of the trials of being alone. And the script that I wrote, that's an interesting story, but like, like, we'll do that next.

[Val]

I think you basically told the story when you were like, I basically channeled something and then it's really good.

[Pete Holmes]

I know. And we were laughing today that like, some people channel like holy scriptures and I channel a half hour sitcom. But either way it feels really good.

[Val]

It's holy.

[Pete Holmes]

But anyway, thank you, guys. We're so happy to be back. We're gonna stop missing weeks. We just gotta do this. It's so important to my.

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Life.

[Val]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So thank you, Val.

[Val]

And keep it crispy.