We Made It Weird #174

Summary

You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes

Episode: We Made It Weird #174

Date: April 26, 2024
Host: Pete Holmes
Guest/Co-Host: Valerie (Pete’s wife)

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Overview

In this episode, Pete Holmes and his wife Valerie invite listeners into a highly personal, “inverted” edition of their Friday bonus series. Mixing genuine vulnerability about mental health and trauma with trademark silliness and comedic riffs, the two navigate Pete’s recent feelings of depression, how childhood wounds resurface, the struggle to contextualize difficult emotions, and—true to form—find time for delightfully absurd bits about showbiz, acting, and everyday observations.
Listeners get both a deep, honest conversation about self-understanding and the playful banter that “We Made It Weird” fans have come to love.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Episode Structure and Tone (00:31–01:07)

• "Inverted" Episode Structure:
  • Valerie notes: first half is deep therapy, second half is bits and laughs.
  • Pete jokes: “An inverted nipple of a show here… Not bad weird, just not… not typical. Not nipple.”
  • Sets up the deeper, more vulnerable start, followed by lighter entertainment.

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2. Silliness as Entry Point (06:01–07:31)

• Playful banter about the song “Barbara Ann”—how the lyrics get misheard, and whether car dealers use it.
• Joking about bits from Pete's former relationship—“The thing I miss the most about my ex-wife is the bits.”

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3. Pete’s Mental Health & Trauma Response (07:45–17:10)

Hyperfocus, Memory, and Emotional RAM

• Pete describes his brain as having limited “slots of RAM” (10:48):

  "I'm an old computer… it only has five slots of RAM… what I put in those slots is my entire reality."

• Shares vulnerability about recent depression:

  “I feel vulnerable saying that, especially on the show… it’s a non-circumstantial one. One of the things that got loaded in there was like a powerless child feeling.” (11:09)

• Struggles to recall emotional moments unless actively “saved,” comparing himself to his father in selective memory.

The “Cheesecloth” Metaphor

• Emotions act as cheesecloths through which he perceives his day—childhood wounds or sadness as the primary filter affecting even happy experiences. (12:42)
• Valerie: “That first cheesecloth is fucking our days or making our days.” (13:09)

Trauma Activation & Shame

• Recent events (parents’ anniversary) have reactivated old wounds.
• Pete feels like “Frankenstein’s monster at the beach” when old shame and trauma are triggered. (14:45)
• He describes the downward spiral:

  “Val's right. We should go to New York while we're in Boston… and then I'm like, it's because of me. I'm a freak… I can't do it. Shame. It was all of this shame.” (14:45)

• On the difficulty of self-care routines (e.g., breathwork, exercise) during depression:

  “Oftentimes when I have the will to do breath work, it's because my life is going well… then you're like, you're gunked. You're clogged.” (15:43)

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4. Contextualizing Trauma and Emotional Cycles (17:10–27:12)

Understanding Patterns & The Werewolf Analogy

• Valerie emphasizes contextualizing reactions to reduce shame: (17:13)

  “When you put it in a context, then it's contained in that context as opposed to this, like, ‘Why is… sometimes I'm in Tony Robbins mode, and sometimes I'm completely destroyed.’”

• Pete: “The werewolf analogy… you feel [like] it's a full moon, so I'm just gonna go eat the neighbor's chickens.” (17:44)

Trauma Responses as Universal

• Valerie: “If you can take comfort in the fact that you are actually following a very well-trodden path. This is exactly what trauma responses look like in a human body.” (21:14)
• Discussion of shame as a nearly universal feeling among people grappling with trauma, and the importance of not minimizing one’s own experience.
• Pete: “I want people to greenlight their own pain because then we can start dealing with it instead of just putting it in the mayonnaise jar and it breaks every six weeks.” (24:17)

Toxic Positivity & The Limits of Positive Thinking

• Valerie distinguishes between healthy reframing and suppressing difficult feelings (“toxic positivity”)
• Pete: “Tony [Robbins] talks about that. He's like, that's like going out to your garden and saying, ‘There are no weeds.’ ... You have to weed your garden.” (26:57)

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5. Spirituality & Embracing All Experience (28:01–34:47)

• Pete shares how spiritual teachings help him sit with pain but don’t necessarily make feelings vanish:

  “My spiritual work has helped deeply with this sadness, and it didn't make it go away, and I think that's interesting.” (28:18)

• Citing Rupert Spira:

  “When you're struggling… just check in. Is the awareness that holds that feeling… anything other than peace? …I am peaceful, happy and content. And there's this phenomenon happening.” (28:31)

• Pete describes a vivid metaphor: “More confusion, more pain, more malaise…” as a sailor strapped to a mast, inviting life’s storms, suggesting radical acceptance. (29:36–32:07)
• Valerie: “What, are you gonna resist it the entire time? That is miserable. So it actually makes logical sense [to embrace it].” (32:47)

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6. The Everlasting Gobstopper & Desire (34:47–41:42)

• The Gobstopper as a metaphor for the ever-renewing challenge (“everlasting” emotional work):

  Pete recalls: “I remember… I would buy an everlasting gobstopper. And, like, I really had this hope that it would last forever… the hope that God doesn't stop.” (34:59)

• Discussion of universal desire/Zeno’s paradox:
  • Pete (quoting Rupert Spira): “A lot of self-aggrandizing… comes from the human's desperate attempt to have its finite nature reflect its infinite nature.” (38:20)
  • Sadhguru quote: “If you owned the entire Earth… how long before you want the moon and… Mars?” (39:00)
• Valerie observes this in parenting:

  “She’s just a pure example of the nature of the whole universe, which is to want more and more and more and more.” (36:21)

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7. Non-duality, Accepting Desire, and the Nature of Reality (41:42–54:09)

• Applying spiritual perspectives (“non-duality”) to day-to-day struggle, desire, and the feeling of separateness.
• Valerie reflects on desire as a universal property, not evidence of spiritual failure:

  “I feel like it's some sort of spiritual failure that I want things. And when I think about… consciousness expanding because it is [in love] with everything.” (40:51)

• Pete explores physical metaphors: fire’s desire for wood, electricity’s longing for ground (41:38–41:56).
• Ponders religious metaphors (Abraham & Isaac) as reflections on detachment and the human condition.
• Pete shares his routine of daily awe and gratitude:

  “There's a moment every morning… I get up and I'm like, it's this. It's here. I'm here again. Wow." (53:14)

• Non-duality and “the mystery”: discussing awareness, identity, and the sense that “this is it.”

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8. Comedy, Ego, & Showbiz Anecdotes (46:17–54:00)

The “Hundreds of Things” Acting Bit

• Pete recounts being recognized at a coffee shop: a casting director innocently asks if he ever acts.
  • The challenge: “Try to say 'I've been in hundreds of things' and not sound like a turd.” (47:51)
  • Comical attempts by Pete and Valerie to answer humbly, then riffing on different ways to answer as various personalities (e.g., channeling Richard Rohr).

The Beginner’s Mind

• Valerie: “Confusion leads to a beginner’s mind.” (52:03)
• Quotes from Rupert Spira about moving from ‘head’ to ‘heart’, relinquishing the urge to “figure it all out.”

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9. More Absurdist Fun—Impressions, Commercial Jokes & Riffs (54:10–68:14)

• Pete and Valerie riff on actors (John C. Reilly, etc.), the art of acting, and casting director psychology.
• Impersonations and running gags:
  • Sam Elliott voice, cowboy movie tropes (“buy you dinner”… meaning “I’m going to shoot you”).
  • Kermit the Frog, Ray Romano, Dr. Phil, and “Sam Hole L. Jackson.”
  • Lightly dance around loaded topics (Israel joke), dodge controversy, and bring it back to playfulness.
• Parenting jokes and relationship moments (joking about missing each other since becoming parents).

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On hyperfocus, trauma and memory:

  Pete: “I'm an old computer… it only has five slots of RAM… what I put in those slots is my entire reality.” (10:49)

• Cheesecloth metaphor

  Pete: “It's almost like I'm pouring water and the water is my day. And now we're putting these different cheesecloths, and there's only five of them. And the superpower is if I want to focus on just doing an hour of stand up… it's one of the reasons why I don't like go out…” (11:42)

• On contextualizing trauma

  Valerie: “…When you put it in a context, then it's contained in that context as opposed to this, like, ‘Why is… sometimes I'm in Tony Robbins mode, and sometimes I'm completely destroyed.’” (17:13)

• Inviting all emotions

  Pete: “More confusion, more pain, more malaise, more… The big one was confusion, more confusion. And it was like celebrating this, like, I want it all. I want it all, like a crazy sailor.” (29:36)

• On desire and expansion

  Pete (quoting Sadhguru): “If you owned the entire Earth… how long before you want the moon and how long before you want Mars? That's the nature.” (39:00)

• On the power of attention

  Valerie: “All those feelings, actually, they only want one thing—and that's your attention.” (28:01)

• On spiritual acceptance

  Pete: “My spiritual work has helped deeply with this sadness, and it didn't make it go away, and I think that's interesting.” (28:18)

• Showbiz anecdote

  Pete: “Try to say 'I've been in hundreds of things' and not sound like a turd. Try to say it meekly.” (47:51)

• On "beginner's mind" and confusion

  Valerie: “Confusion leads to a beginner's mind. So it is a gift… You're like, ‘I just got here, and I don't know what the hell is happening.’” (52:10)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:31–01:08: Show structure, “inverted” format intro
• 06:01–07:31: Goofiness: lyrics and childhood misunderstandings
• 07:45–17:10: Pete’s depressive episode, emotional RAM, and vulnerability
• 17:10–27:12: Contextualizing shame and trauma, “werewolf” and “cheesecloth” metaphors
• 28:01–34:47: Spiritual integration, “kissing the frog” and radical acceptance
• 34:47–41:42: The gobstopper metaphor, desire, expansion, and parenting
• 41:42–54:09: Non-duality, routine awe, and the mystery of consciousness
• 46:17–54:00: Showbiz humor, acting humility riff, Richard Rohr anecdote
• 54:10–68:14: Bits: actor impressions, product riffing, Dr. Phil and cowboy metaphors, playfulness

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Conclusion

"We Made It Weird #174" is a rich blend of heartfelt honesty and joyful absurdity. Pete and Valerie open up about the complexity of living with trauma, the recurring cycles of emotional difficulty, and how spiritual practices and honest relationships help them navigate life’s turbulence. Alongside, they showcase the show’s signature silliness—turning ego bruises and childhood stories into comedic gold.
A standout episode for its openness, insight, and the enduring invitation to “keep it crispy”—even when things get weird.

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Final Words:

Pete (to Valerie, after a particularly therapeutic exchange):
“You giving me that space to kind of just like… like banging a dusty carpet on a clothesline. And then at the other side of it, you're just like… And it's so essential.” (65:01)

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Transcript

[A]

You made it weird. You made it weird. You made it weird. Oh, yeah.

[B]

You made it weird. Made it weird. Yes, you did.

[A]

It made it weird.

[B]

You made it weird with Pete Holmes.

[A]

What's happening, weirdos?

[B]

What's happening, weirdos?

[A]

We did a. Like an alien.

[B]

Oh, an inverted.

[A]

Inverted.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

An inverted nipple of a show here.

[B]

One of those weird nips. Not bad weird, just not. Not typical. Not nipple. All right.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

This is a great one. We do do it a little. We do do it a little inverted, meaning the first half is sort of our deep therapy. Really, really, really, really helpful. God.

[A]

God.

[B]

That's my Michael Scott impression. God.

[A]

No, no.

[B]

God. I can't sound like him, but he's always going, God. God, I can't do it at all. But he says God a lot.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We're so glad you're here. For those of you that are new, these are the Friday bonus episodes where Valerie and I catch up and it's part therapy and then the second part is all the bits and the laughs.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

So usually we do it the other way, but it's a full. You. It's a full. We made it weird. And I'm glad you guys are all here. Go to PeteHomes.com, we just added a late show on Thursday in Chicago, so there's going to be six shows in Chicago. I'm pre tired, but it's going to be awesome. And my Netflix is a Joke Fest in LA on May 4th. Tickets for all of these are on PeteHomes.com Pennsylvania. There's a Texas show. Hope to see you out there. And in the meantime, enjoy this convo. We're going to roll the first ads. The ads are always things that I like and actually use to try. One supports the show really makes a difference for us. So, Katie, roll those first ads. This episode is brought to us by our friends at Armor. You guys know I am obsessed with ways to strengthen my immunity, improve my gut health, as well as my fitness, endurance, and metabolism, as well as, of course, hair, skin, radiance. Imagine one product that handles all of these things. Well, stop imagining. 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[A]

Valerie, get into it. Barbara Ann.

[B]

Barbara Ann. Oh my.

[A]

Barbara Ann. It should be Bar Bar, Bar bar.

[B]

Bar bar bar Bar Ann.

[A]

Is it? It's Ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba Barbaran.

[B]

That has to be one of the historically the silliest but very important conversations. That song was huge.

[A]

Huge.

[B]

And a producer humorlessly was like, is it Bar Bar Bar Bar Bar bar bar bar Baran.

[A]

I definitely made their choice for most of my childhood thought that it was Bob Bra Ann.

[B]

Bob ran. Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob. Do you think there's a car dealer in the Midwest that uses that?

[A]

Definitely.

[B]

I mean, I hope so.

[A]

Were you about to look it up?

[B]

I was, but then.

[A]

Yeah, no, let's just be impregnated with wonder.

[B]

There you go. Oh, look at this.

[A]

Do you see what's happening with my microphone?

[B]

Yeah, I do. And it's been distracting me from muchos and I. There you go.

[A]

And I as well. Thank you.

[B]

I too. I stopped saying that. I used to say that all the time.

[A]

What?

[B]

And I too, Batman. I don't even know.

[A]

I never heard you say that.

[B]

Yeah, I think it's from my first. It was a solid bit.

[A]

Can we talk about.

[B]

Can I talk to you? For a second. The thing I miss the most about my. My ex wife is the bits like an I too Batman. And sometimes I say this, I go, it's chillum Freeze.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's from my first chill and freeze is really funny to me.

[A]

Are the bits like things that you guys had together?

[B]

No. No. So you just miss the things I.

[A]

Time of your life where you did those.

[B]

You know, it's like an old hour.

[A]

It has nothing to do with her.

[B]

Absolutely. In fact, that is the real nightmare of my life is, is when I'm really low and I have been this week. It's been weird. One of my feelings is like I. I can't actually love or connect. Like sometimes when, when I'm doing. One of the reasons I love doing a accredited practice is like, you know, when I. Before I go on stage, I need to look at my jokes and before I have a good day. I literally like, I think more than most people, what I just looked at is my reality.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I think more than most people.

[A]

Yeah. I think that might be like a. A little. A touch of the adhd.

[B]

You think so?

[A]

The type that you have. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because is it yours? Like, I don't know the correct term, but there's like the like scatter. I think there's like seven different kinds, but one of them is more like the scatter. Yeah. And then there's squirrel. Yeah. And then there's like hyper focused at like what you have, which is like I can focus on this one thing, but then like nothing else exists.

[B]

Yeah. It's. I really appreciate, I feel very seen. It's one of the reasons why I have a hard time with like say the news, for example. I have an awareness of the tragedies and, and the horrors. But I think more than I'm going to take it out of the news because I, I just, I live in constant fear that people are going to shame me for not knowing the minute by minute details of every.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Which I.

[A]

Some people will and we don't.

[B]

And I am ashamed. And I am ashamed.

[A]

I mean.

[B]

Well, here's my point. It's more with people. So if I don't even, you know, not. You and Leela are different. But like, if I want to hit save on certain moments, not just a general, vague warm orange thing, color, like, you know, a spot of color in my memory that I'm like, I love Val and Lila. I have to. Sometimes you'll say to me like, you were like. Do you remember when we were driving home from my Parents house. And I was just bawling. And I'm like. And I just know I will find it.

[A]

You don't.

[B]

But I don't have it right now.

[A]

I mean, yeah, sure. That doesn't. I don't have any.

[B]

No. I don't feel bad about telling you that.

[A]

Yeah. I don't. Do you?

[B]

But do you really remember that wouldn't work. That wouldn't work for me. So it reminds me of my father. And there is a superpower. Meaning I think I'm an old computer, but one of those old computers that some programmers are like, nothing did it. Like the XT50.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I miss the XT50. I know these new ones can process so much more. But the XT50 could only. It only has 5 slots of RAM. None of this is correct. It only had 50 megabytes of RAM. I prefer slots because it's like what I put in those slots is. Is my entire reality.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And what happened? One of the reasons I think I've been depressed, honestly, like, it's weird for me to say that, but like, what I mean, I feel vulnerable saying that, especially on the show. I like to show up and, and I feel funny and I feel sparkly.

[A]

Yeah. But people want to know what's really happening.

[B]

Well, yeah. And it's a non circumstantial one. One of the things that got loaded in there was like a powerless child feeling. And then that got loaded into one of the 10 megabyte slots of RAM. And that's just in there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And actually I'll change metaphors and say like, it's almost like I'm pouring water and the water is my day. And now we're putting these different cheesecloths and there's only five of them. And the superpower is if I want to focus on just doing an hour of stand up, it's one of the reasons why I don't like go out or like go to the Rock and Roll hall of Fame if I'm in Cleveland. You know, I'm just kind of keeping that one thing in the slot.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And that's really sorry to be monologuing here, but that's really when I see the power of it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like the hyper focus. But if you load in something like a vague. And it is vague, unresolved traumatic sadness. So my. The depression I've been having this past week feel. Just felt like tears behind my eyes. Like I just, I. I still kind of feel it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just like reservoirs of tears behind my eyes. Not crying. I Would have loved a good cry, but just kind of like a feeling of, like. And then all of these circumstantially nice things were happening.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But the first cheesecloth was a vague, unresolved childhood powerlessness.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And everything was going through that. So I would be like, look how cute Leela is. Look how amazing our life is. Look at how fun it is to. This, this and this.

[A]

This part is not specific to you, I would say. Or, like, even. Yeah. The cheesecloth, I think, is universal.

[B]

That first cheesecloth is fucking our days or making our days.

[A]

Yes. And that's, like. So that I really know, and I don't know if that. I do. I do know what is happening with you. I'm pretty positive. Is like you said, without going in the details, like, you were in, like, a trauma response. So that depression isn't just coming out of nowhere. Why am I depressed? It's like, this makes perfect sense. Some things have happened that have activated.

[B]

We talked about it on the pod, the drama. It's my. My parents had their wedding anniversary, and there's been, like, a lot of involvement with me. And I said that made me, you know, remember that. That trauma or. Or just wounds.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Are like, disproportionate responses to seemingly ordinary things.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And like, oh, this. I hope you don't mind it. Like, you were like, hey, we're going to Boston. Why don't we go to New York while we're there? And this is how I know I'm traumatized, is I, like, it felt like a smoke bomb went off in my body, and I was, like, frozen and really.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Sad.

[A]

We were frozen. Yeah.

[B]

And I realized in that moment, I was like, you know, we're going on the same plane. It's me, you, and my brother. And I was like, I need that support. I can't turn this into a vacation.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then. But the real problem is. So I didn't mean to change subjects. I love this cheesecloth thing we're on. But I start feeling like Frankenstein at the beach, and you just can't picture. I know it's Frankenstein's monster, but everybody relax. Frankenstein's monster at the beach. That's how you feel, is you're like, I'm broken.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Val's right. We should go to New York while we're in Boston, we're flying all the way across the country. Why are we just going to my parents and getting out of there? And that's silly. And then I'm like, it's because of me. I'M a freak. Like, and you just go like, you can't do this. And then that becomes your first cheesecloth. Is like, I'm broken. I'm a monster. I can't do it. Shame. It was all of this shame.

[A]

Yeah, I know.

[B]

And. And like, so much of my life lately, you know what it is? Val is like. I know. For example, we talk a lot about breath work on this podcast, and breath work is. Is really the key. On the other side of breath work is meaning, like, deep breathing and deliberate stuff. Is a better you is a better body.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like a better nervous system.

[A]

How your body. One of the ways your body releases all of this drama for real.

[B]

But oftentimes when I have the will to do breath work, it's because my life is going well.

[A]

I know.

[B]

And then you're like, you're fudged. You're covered in like, gunk. Like, they just. We had a problem with our. Something in our pool and they took a thing out and it's covered in chlorine. It's all gunked. Like, that's how I feel. I'm like, gunked. I'm clogged.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then I sit down to try and do breath work or exercise. But anyway, I'm really gonna. I'm gonna put this all back to you. What I hate is. And what everybody. I don't hate, but what I'm strugg is everybody knows that listens to this pod. I went through this beautiful Tony Robbins time, and I was really like, I found this old piece of paper. It was like 5:30 to 7:30, spirit priming, planning. 7 to 8:30, Papa Pete. 8:30, 9:30, dream husband. 10 to 12:30, creative time. 12:30 to two emails and taking care of business. And I look at that and I'm like, that sweet boy. Like, oh, God, I wish I could stay him.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And then I sw. I. It's such a scary feeling that you're like one phone call or text away where someone, again, just sort of innocently. I'm not. My mom's not trying to hurt me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

My mom innocently, is kind of asking me to do things for their anniversary. And again, I have a disproportionate response to that and it throws me off. It's like a flu. It's like a flu.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And everything goes out the window.

[A]

Yeah. A hundred percent. Okay, so this is.

[B]

I'm sorry, Val, we're out of time.

[A]

This is like, just because contextualizing it helps alleviate some of the shame. And it also Helps just contain it. When you put it in a context, then it's contained in that context as opposed to this. Like, why is. Sometimes I'm in Tony Robbins mode, and sometimes I'm completely destroyed. Like, there seems to be no sort of reason or rhyme to this. And then that feels really scary because you're like, I don't know when or what is going to make this descend upon me.

[B]

The werewolf analogy. I know all these monsters are coming up, but that's how you feel. You're like, oh, it's a full moon.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I'm just gonna go eat the neighbor's chickens.

[A]

Yeah. So there. Exactly.

[B]

So that lack of control.

[A]

The lack of control is very scary. And. And of course it is. But just to contextualize it, to help contain it, you are having a trauma response very appropriately, because your trauma comes from your parents fighting. And now they're asking you to do all of these things to celebrate their marriage. And. And that's gaslighting your reality. And that is. You know, and again, sure, they did the best they could. They can have an anniversary party if they want to. But this is how it's affecting you. It's not.

[B]

It's weird. It does feel like Zelda having a birthday party for Ganon, if anybody else. Like, there's just like.

[A]

And I just don't know the reference that has.

[B]

It's a Zelda. But that doesn't even. That's not indicative of how I feel and relate to my parents. Now, I say that a little bit, just being like, we feel pretty good. Right. But there's this child that's like, absolutely. And you know how I know this is going to be subtle to talk about, but you know how I know you're right is when you start saying that there's a dissociative, like, I take a step back away from you. I feel energetically. Something in me goes like, that's not true.

[A]

Mm. Interesting.

[B]

Yeah. Like. Like I can't handle it. It's like the thing that's too hard to look at.

[A]

Well, I. Yeah, that's probably a little insensitive of me. I should, like. No, I know, but I love it. There's.

[B]

There's no secret feeling I understand.

[A]

But I. This is actually something. I'm. This. I don't want to get on this tangent, but I'm trying to, like, I do feel like I have some pretty. I'm a projector and human design, and I'm a nine and blah, blah. So I can kind of, like, see. See the Bird's eye view of things. So I do have some kind of, like, clear seeing. Not that I see everything perfectly. I just talked about this on the podcast last week. I think where I am trying to not. Sometimes, like, sometimes you can see something and just keep it to yourself. It can be too much to, like, point to it in somebody else. And that's like. Yeah, you know, there's. There's a sensitivity that needs to come with that.

[B]

You're saying that because.

[A]

Just because I see that doesn't mean you benefit or are ready for me to, like, point at it.

[B]

No, for me, this is so me. It's like cold exposure. I want exposure therapy. In fact, I've just decided to go.

[A]

Back to therapy, which I think is such an important thing, because here's everything that you. And I'm saying this again to like, normalize and contextualize.

[B]

Beach. I like sand.

[A]

Every. Including that. My own version of Frankenstein on the beach. Like, everything that you're explaining is something that I, as a person who has a history of drama, have experienced so many times.

[B]

She's so hot. History of trauma.

[A]

So, like, if you can. If you can take comfort in the fact that you are actually following a very well tread. Treaded path.

[B]

Trodden.

[A]

Trodden. Well, trodden path. Like, this is exactly what trauma responses look like in a human body. It's every step of it. The, like, feeling. Identifying as your child self that you said you feel like a scared child. That's what happens when we are activated in our trauma. We are more identified with our child self than our adult self. Check you. You're. You're on the list. Like, feeling like a freak. Like, and also. Or feeling broken, I guess is.

[B]

No freak is great.

[A]

You said freak. But. But I'm saying that might look different.

[B]

For everybody saying getting a sunburn. It's not even his skin. Someone else sunburned me feel. It's the skin of 10 dead people.

[A]

Oh, my God. But.

[B]

Oh, no. But some of the patches of skin are better in the sun than others. Some bronze and some freckle melanin on redhead elbows. Oh, no.

[A]

But feeling broken. Feeling like. And then feeling shamed about this. Like, why can't I get over this? What's wrong with me? All of that shame.

[B]

Embarrassed. Like, even as we're talking about it, I'm like, I. It's in bear that that's what I hope is helpful about this is. I'm just going like, this is my huge response to a seemingly little thing. But I think that's all of this everyone's walking around getting and, you know, triggered has sort of been appropriated by the culture and all. And even trauma, obviously, has been. I'm trying to find the way that it's true for me without.

[A]

I. I.

[B]

You know, memeing it. I don't want to turn it into a meme, but I think people are out there.

[A]

I think we are traumatizing moment.

[B]

Yeah. You mean people.

[A]

Yeah. Like, I. I don't. I don't think trauma. I mean, I'm sure it is, in some ways is being, like, misused or overused, but I don't think the fact that it's ubiquitous, it alone means that it's being overused. I think that's how many people are traumatized.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

Because we've just very, very recently become aware of what trauma is like and.

[B]

How, like, my mother and father are traumatized 100%. You know.

[A]

They handed it over to you.

[B]

Right? I'm just trying to say, like, it's not like they're torment. It's like we're all trauma people and we're all feeling different things. Even my mom asking me to help with the party is a. I can't know, but feels like something that's coming from her wound, which is like, please dote on me, Take care of me. Help me with this thing that is her love language. But it comes from a. Like, again, I can't diagnose my mom, but like an uncertainty in her incredibly difficult life.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

But as we say on the show all the time, your shit is your shit. Yeah. I lived in a house that was, to me, I don't know. I want people to greenlight their own pain because then we can start dealing with it instead of just putting it in the mayonnaise jar and it breaks every six weeks.

[A]

That's exactly right. So that. And that's the thing, is your parents, you know, unknowingly gave you complex drama because it's complex, not because it's more complex or less, but it's because it's, like, difficult.

[B]

It's, like, cool that I manipulate it like fire.

[A]

Yeah. It's, like, complicated because it is like a situation over time that's like. There's not one thing to point.

[B]

It's like, it's not the dead body I found in the creek.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

It was the slow gas leak.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So. And they. They did that because of exactly what you said. Like, they were wounded two. And they were doing the best they could with being wounded. And having way less resources. The thing, though, to not do is to be like. So we can understand that and have compassion for it. And it doesn't change or minimize your experience at all.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And you can have been traumatized by them. And it doesn't mean that they're bad. We're writing them off. They're garbage.

[B]

Well, that's why, like, I cried when I had no shoes till I met the man with no fate. Like, I remember learning that. And that's valid. But there is something about I have no shoes.

[A]

Yeah. You're bypassing your own experience by just being like, well, it could have been a lot worse.

[B]

It's not navel, gazy or inappropriate to deal with your sadness over not having shoes. And I actually don't think it's a good strategy to, like. No, I don't know.

[A]

It doesn't work. That's the thing. And so this is also going back to the Tony Robbins thing. Hey, I. It's. It's like nuanced. Right. So I'm constantly thinking about how to balance this, because I do think what you. What's that saying where you're like, whatever you put your attention on, that's where your energy goes, or wherever you put your energy, that's your reality.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Like, and. Which is so true. So it is important to not, like, ruminate in things. However, you can't just bypass all of the things that your body is holding by positive thinking. It's called toxic positivity.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Where it's.

[B]

Well, Tony talks about that. He's like, that's like going out to your garden and saying, there are no weeds. There are no weeds. There are no weeds. He's like, you have to weed your garden.

[A]

Yeah, that's good. I'm glad he addresses that.

[B]

These feelings come in like the Kool Aid man. That was an image that came through.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I remember I said this last time. I was like, I don't recall agreeing to this. Like, when you. When suffering or your pain is like, it just barged. It really feels like these feelings are barging in.

[A]

That's right. And so that is. It deserves to be treated differently than, you know, just like, whatever a standard feeling that might not be tied to your trauma is. They're like, I'm just slightly annoyed that I'm in this line. It's like, okay, maybe then we can pull out some non dualist things.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But like, when you're dealing with trauma in your body, the. It doesn't work to just think of gratitude. Because all those feelings, actually, they only want one thing, and that's your attention.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So if you give your attention to something else, those feelings are going to stay there.

[B]

Well, that's what Rupert, our non. Dual teacher, he says the same thing. You know, it's. It's the princess and the frog, and you have to kiss the frog. You. You don't have to just look at the frog. You actually have to kiss it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I will say this. I think this is interesting. My spiritual work has helped deeply with this sadness, and it didn't make it go away, and I think that's interesting.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But, you know, Rupert said to me, you know, he's like, when you're struggling, when you're having that malaise or that sadness or. For me, it's a lot of times it's an anger. You just go. Just check in. Is the awareness that holds that feeling. Is it. Is it anything other than peace? And it's been really cool to go like, oh, it is peaceful. Meaning I am peaceful, meaning I, awareness, am peaceful, happy and content. And there's this phenomenon happening. And going towards it has been really.

[A]

Yeah, great.

[B]

Like, going, like, kissing the frog, going into it, getting curious about it. And that, I will say, has been really helpful in making a lot of these unwanted. Like, wanting them makes the unwanted feelings dissolve.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then I think I had this dream, or it was an image I had while I was maybe meditating or something. But I was. I felt very convinced. It was almost like God was saying, no, more confusion. I already told you this.

[A]

Yeah. I love that.

[B]

It was like. It was almost like he was God. Or this person representing God was like, tied or not tied, but was like on the. The. What is it called on a ship? Those things that hold the sails? Is that a mast? Yes, the poles that hold the sails. So, you know there's a crow's nest up there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He's standing on one of them, and he's holding on, and the salty brine is splashing up in his face, and the water is like, rocky. It's. It's a rough day to be sailing. And his shirt is wet and ripped. Very Fabio. And he's just holding on to it. And he kind of looks haggard, to be honest, this image. And he's saying, more confusion, more pain, more malaise, more. The. The big one was confusion, more confusion. And I was. And it was like, celebrating this, like, I want it all. I want it all, like, like a crazy sailor. And I was like, the more I embody this understanding of like, you know, I. I never liked the idea that God. Sometimes people say God or the. The. The original awareness was lonely. So it wanted to play this game with itself. I think that's too anthropomorphic to use a fancy word. I. Perfect peace and contentment can't be lonely. But to quote Rupert, its nature is expansion. It's nature is just like. It's so talk about self love. The original self awareness itself is so fucking into itself. It's a weird, weird way to say it that it just can't help but go like. And like, pull itself through itself and like, come out as more multiverse. And it's going. And that was a really helpful practice. So like. And honestly, Val, big compliment coming for you. You've made me feel in our relationship just so cherished as a kook. And that's helped me love myself as a kook. And even when I'm depressed because. And by the way, the asks for the anniversary is just a guess. Like, who knows what that churned up. It could have been something we don't know. But I'm like, more confusion.

[A]

More. Yeah.

[B]

Fucking be more lost.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because in our fundamental nature, we're totally okay. And it was like we came here.

[A]

Let's do the dang thing.

[B]

Let's do it. I want the boat to get rocked on the big waves and tossed and what that guy was just to finish this image. He was a person who knew he had been reincarnated thousands and thousands and thousands of times. He was just like, all his crew is worried.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he's the madman. That's like such a good image. Break my heart.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, break my leg.

[A]

Yeah. This is what I came for.

[B]

This is what it is.

[A]

I am. You know, I'm fucking all about it. Like, this is my jam. I love.

[B]

Sorry about. We are out of time. Go ahead. I'm so sorry.

[A]

I think that this is what I mean on the most basic, like, not heart space, creative. Just like the most logical level. You're here. We're in this wild life, so you might as well embrace it. What, are you gonna resist it the entire time? That is miserable. So it actually makes logical sense. But then also in our gut, in our blood and our bones and our heart. It's like so romantic.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, what the hell? This is like such a.

[B]

This conversation is really helping me. Yeah.

[A]

Right. And we are. And didn't I.

[B]

It is Mr. Toad's wild ride.

[A]

It is. And I told. I told you the other day where I was like, isn't it just enough, like, just complicated enough to keep you engaged to last a lifetime of learning. I mean, arguably many lifetimes, but as far as we know for sure. Whenever I'm, like, working through my trauma, because the thing is, is you're like. You're not. You're not really ever, like, done. You definitely are through, like, the thick of it. That. That's a sensation I've had where I'm like, okay, yeah, I'm through the thick of it in a lot of ways, but it is gonna get sort of re triggered in surprising ways. And I just know how to deal with it differently now. But I will always probably have that. And whenever I do, of course, the tempting feeling is like, I'm fucking back here again. Okay.

[B]

You know, I thought I was done with this.

[A]

I thought I was done with this, but really the feeling is, like, right, okay, so this is, like, just enough to like, keep me working my whole lifetime on this thing. Like, this is the everlasting gum job break. No. What is it?

[B]

Gobstopper.

[A]

Gobstopper?

[B]

Yeah. I'm always trying to stop a gob.

[A]

Can. Can I get out Stopping a go.

[B]

A jawbreaker.

[A]

No, it's gobstopper.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Everlasting gobstopper.

[B]

You really look sidebar. Because everything you're saying is so beautiful. But, like, I really, really, really remember buying. Speaking of. What I load into my mind is my reality. Just to put a pin in that and to say something kind and loving about my family is like. I remember we would walk to the candy store and I would buy an everlasting gobstopper. And, like, I really had this hope that it would last forever. And, you know, you put it in your mouth and it feels like, how.

[A]

Am I ever gonna. Yeah, this is.

[B]

This is me now. I'm just a guy. How you doing? Like, that's gonna be me. You know, it's gone by the time you get home. But, like, the hope. Yeah, totally the hope that God doesn't stop.

[A]

I mean, that is related. And you know what? You even helped me with Leila. The. The thing about, like, the nature of the universe is expansion. And, like, desire is another way that I've heard that described. Like, yeah, the nature of the whole universe is desire. Wants more and more and more and more.

[B]

It's funny, I've never put that desire on God. I've always just thought it was like. Yeah, it's because we're up and we just want stuff.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But is self desiring.

[A]

Yeah. It wants this experience and that it wants all the experiences. It just wants more and more and.

[B]

More and just, like, your dreams.

[A]

That helps me with Leela, because I will do that. Like the. Just a classic thing. And I don't know when I'm gonna learn this in real life, real time. But, like, the other yesterday, I don't know. They're all blurring together. But at one point, I said to Leela, like, why don't we get ice cream even though it's not Friday? Because we get ice cream on Fridays. And I was like, let's go get ice cream. And she was like, can we get a toy instead? She wants a toy because it lasts longer than ice cream. And I was like, okay. And anytime I. I'm taking her to a place that has toys, and I say, like, okay, I'll say get something small. But that's the only limitation. She cannot handle it because she will. Whatever she picks, she'll have a meltdown about the thing that she didn't get. And then I get really triggered because I tell this untrue narrative of, like, you're a rich only child, which is, like, the worst possible person, which isn't true. I'm sorry to anybody who is a rich only child, but I'm just like, you're going to be entitled and spoiled, and you're only focusing on what you can't have, and you're, you know, whatever. And the truth is, is like, no. She's just a pure example of the nature of the whole universe, which is to want more and more and more and more. And it feels very arbitrary to her to have a hard line, like, no, just this. It's, like, against our whole nature.

[B]

Yeah. I have. I told you that Rupert says a lot of, like, self aggrandizing and. And, you know, admittedly inappropriate narcissistic behaviors come from the human's desperate attempt to have its finite nature reflect its infinite nature.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So if you consider that was a fancy way of saying, like, deep down, you know, you are unborn and limitless.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And then you're in this temporary sort of form.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And therefore, you're like. And I'm not even making. You'll know when I'm making fun of Trump. I'll be doing the voice. But, like, putting your name on a building or putting your face on a billboard.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Remember when we were just talking about that, like, there was that billboard for Crashing on Sunset. It was, like, 10 stories high. And, like, there's a part of me, and I'm not saying that's good. Or bad. It's just like, of course you're going. Like, finally.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

My outsides match my insides.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Look, I'm as big as I in a deeply true way know I am.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And again, just. We'll go to the mid rolls here. But like Sadhguru, who I think about all the time, he goes, if you owned the entire Earth, if everything on the earth was yours, how long before you want the moon and how long before you want Mars? That's the nature.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's why I feel like there's a certain. It's two pronged. It's like one going like, so I. I'm at peace. I don't need anything. But then it's also like forgiving the fact that you, you do. You're still sucking in air, you know, like there's no leaving it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You still want the space that you're occupying. Like you don't want to be squished right now.

[A]

But it is really nice to. Yeah. I don't know. I know it's so not Buddhist what I'm about to say, but. Because that's all about like working with those attachments and wants and trying to not be attached to it. Although Jack Kornfield and Tara Brock would say you are going to have the desire because that is the. I think I got the idea that that's the nature of the universe from them. Like, but trying to not be attached even to your desire, just like notic at. And I think that's true. But I also am like, it's just a beautiful way. Like I'm so negative about my, my wants. Like I'm ashamed of them. I feel like it's some sort of spiritual failure that I want things. And when I think about, you know, the universe in consciousness expanding because it is it. It's really about like being in love with everything.

[B]

Right. Yeah. I'm thinking about like a bolt of electricity, a bolt of lightning.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, again, talk about anthropomorphizing. But it wants to touch the earth.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like it's. The sky is drawn to the earth. And I know we know the science of that. Like the charge of the sky versus the charge of the earth. And this makes this relationship, but just because it's not people and it doesn't have a brain in the way that we think about it. Yeah, it doesn't have a brain in any way. But I'm just saying, like, it wants. Yeah, that, that, that's one of those things that either makes perfect sense or it Makes no sense. And in this moment, talking with you, I'm like, fire wants to eat up wood.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Like, it wants to. It wants to be bigger.

[A]

Yes. We have these caterpillars and like they. I mean, they do have probably a little bit more of a brain, but like, what are they just know to climb to the top of the little jar.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And probably at that point, they don't even know why they're doing that. And then they wiggle around and then they make a material and they're like, for some reason, I want this material to cover my whole body. It's like there's so.

[B]

I wonder if that's what. What that really difficult Bible story is about. Who is it that Isaac and gonna sacrifice him.

[A]

Oh, yeah, Isaac.

[B]

Is it Abraham? Is it Abraham?

[A]

I think it's Abraham. And his son is Isaac.

[B]

Yeah, Abraham and Isaac. And God's like, go kill him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he goes, that's a challenging story. But I think one of the ways you can look at it is like. Like a butterfly. It doesn't even know what it's doing. It's just in this flow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Nobody. Nobody take. Don't think about that one too much.

[A]

I hate that story.

[B]

Everybody hates that story. You know who hates it the most? Abraham. Because that's an awkward walk back. What were you going to do, dad?

[A]

Talk about trauma.

[B]

But I. As a metaphor, I can appreciate that. It's saying, you're precious. Everything has to go. It's why every superhero loses their parents. And then at the. In the third act, it's their girlfriend or the school bus full of children. It's because any attachment is going to keep you from fully being Spider Man.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Anyway.

[A]

All right. Mid rolls.

[B]

Mid rolls. They are. Guys, I know these are ads, but they're for things I actually like. And if you get them, it really helps the show. So try one. Try one for a friend. Try one for yourself. Who cares? This episode is also brought to us by our friends at Ritual, the makers of the best multivitamin and po Priest, Pre, post and probiotic. A probiotic, basically, but three different kinds called Symbiotic Plus. I take both of these every morning. I take their Daily for men and I take their Symbiotic plus every single day. It's got a minty aftertaste, which I love. And the main thing that people have against multivitamins is that you just pee them out, that you don't absorb them. Ritual has a delayed release capsule, which means it breaks down in your lower intestine. Which means it actually gets into your body to fill those gaps in your diet. I used to have all sorts of problems when I got my blood work done at my yearly physical. Ritual has seriously helped with all of that. And according to cdc. The cdc, fewer men than women meet the minimal daily intake recommendations for fruits and vegetables. So, guys, you gotta get the daily wants from men into your life. You're more likely to overvalue exercise and undervalue nutrition. So stop it. Enter ritual multivitamins, scientifically developed for men to fill those gaps in your diet. I love starting my day with ritual. It gets me ready to start my day. Makes me feel good that I know that I'm covering 10 key nutrients in two delayed release capsules per day that dissolve, as I said, in the small intestine. It's gentle on an empty stomach, which means you can take it while you're fasting and it won't upset your belly. So essential for men is a quality multivitamin from a company you can trust. Trust you can trace all of the nutrients in there, which is incredible. They're incredibly transparent. Just a wonderful company, top to bottom, making a wonderful product. So do your body a favor and support the show as well. Get 25 off your first month for a limited time at ritual.com weird. Start ritual or add Essential for men or try symbiotic plus as well to your subscription today. That's ritual.com weird for 25 off. And almost every episode is brought to us by our friends at Modern Mammals. I'll make this real quick, guys. You know I'm obsessed with Modern Mammals. It's the only shampoo that cleans your hair but doesn't strip it of all the natural oils that you need to have it look good and keep it in control. When I use shampoo, it looks like a bale of hay you just took out of the dryer. It looks terrible. I used to not wash it. That was my strategy. Now my strategy. Use Modern mammals. Keeps it clean. Keeps it wonderful to touch, wonderful to feel. Smelling great and looking like you didn't wash it, frankly, which has always been my style. Now I just use Modern Mammals. It's an absolute, absolute, absolute game changer. Get it? Modern mammals.com use promo code weird. You can try both the bar and the bottle for 44 bucks. And they last a really, really long time. So go to Modern mammals dot com. Use promo code weird at checkout. All right, everybody, back to the show. We're back.

[A]

Okay, there's a couple silly things, like what if we do the back half. Pretty silly.

[B]

I actually thought we could.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What were they?

[B]

Well, we were at a coffee shop here in Ojai, and somebody, a very sweet woman, was like, I'm a casting director.

[A]

Oh, yes.

[B]

And she was like, I'm a big fan of yours. And I was like, oh, thank you so much. I was. I was with Rob Bell. We were having coffee, and she's like, do you. She goes.

[A]

She said, I'm a casting director. I'm a fan. I'm a huge fan of yours.

[B]

And do you ever act? Do you ever, like, make a foray into acting? And Rob is looking. Rob gave me a look because he knew we're in this moment. It's a real ego moment. And I'm not even saying that in a bad way. It's just you. You're flooded with pride.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Where you're like, doesn't this person know?

[A]

Yeah. But can I tell you? Can I tell? Because I think what's really fun is how you. You just told me this story this morning.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And how you said. It was. Everything that you just said. And then you were like. And it really was just like an ego thing. But I managed to. You. You know, you said you're like. But I managed to keep it in. I mean, I did say I've been in hundreds of things, but I didn say it snooty. And I said, oh, yeah. You just said it casual like, oh, yeah. You know, I've been in hundreds of things.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

And then that becomes like a fun game.

[B]

Try to say I've been in hundreds of things and not sound like a turd. Try to say it meekly.

[A]

Say it as meekly as you can. Right now, I'm going to say, yeah. Do you act?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Do you? Yeah. You have to say it worse. You have to be like, have you. Have you ever tried acting?

[A]

Like, okay, yeah, I'm a casting director.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

Yeah. I'm a big fan. Have you ever tried acting?

[B]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I've been in hundreds of things. How was that?

[A]

That was pretty close.

[B]

That. You know, what is it about that cadence that felt invitational, like I was letting her in on it.

[A]

Things. Yeah, that was. That was actually.

[B]

I did a good job. See, I did a good job. I did some acting.

[A]

That's true. Clearly. I mean, it still is. Like, kind of you do it funny, but. But it was as close as I think you can get.

[B]

Val, I'm a casting director. Have you ever done any acting?

[A]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I've Been in hundreds of things. I tried to take a different spin, and it didn't work. Hundreds of things.

[B]

The way I definitely said it in real life was more. Yeah, I've been in hundreds of things.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And there's no way that wasn't Tool City.

[A]

And then also, you were like, hundreds.

[B]

Yeah, I know. And we were like. If you count every single thing I've ever done as one thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, 80 episodes of the Pete Holmes show, we're already. We're already at 80.

[A]

I know. That's true.

[B]

If you count every. This is dumb.

[A]

So maybe there was hundreds, but that.

[B]

No, but you would really count the Peter show as one thing.

[A]

I know.

[B]

I don't know. But that's. That's not true. Why would you experientially.

[A]

Yeah, that's right.

[B]

And every Peter show, there were two. It doesn't matter. This is dumb. But I. You know, I was with Richard Rohr once, and he is just such a inspiration to me as a person. Obviously, as a teacher and as a theologian, that stuff is so precious to me. But as I've said many times that the time I've spent with him as a person. I actually don't think I've told this one before, but, you know, so Richard wrote a book called the Naked Now. It's one of my favorite books. It's. It's. I don't think he would mind me saying. It's kind of like his exploration, like, the Power of Now. It's very similar.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The present moment. And I just remember we were in this situation and we were with some guys, and one of the guys didn't really know Richard very well, and. And Richard made some comment, like, what time is it? Like, we had lost track of time. And the guy who didn't know Richard as well and didn't have that reverence for Richard and was being kind of in. From where I was sitting, he was, oh, you're like, trying to be deep or whatever, which was fine.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He goes, the only time is now. But he said it kind of like, yeah, let me help you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm like, this is Richard Rohr.

[A]

I know.

[B]

In my mind, I'm like, that's like saying to Stephen Hawking, like, sometimes in math, letters represent numbers. You know what I mean? Like, I was like, this guy's a master.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And you just said, like, you know what time it is now? Yeah, that's what he said. Which, again, I. I appreciated his earnest attempt. I was like, I'm, like, thinking, what are you doing? And Richard went, oh, yes. Thank you for that reminder. And I was like, God dang it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So now I'll be Richard Rohr. And you asked me if I've ever acted.

[A]

Okay. Yeah. Have you ever done any acting?

[B]

Oh, I don't know if you'd call it acting. I. I've dabbled. It's. It's something I have a lot of respect for and do enjoy doing. Yeah. Here and there.

[A]

Do you like acting? He would always turn it on.

[B]

He would. And so you cast it. What a special talent to be able to envision what a project should be.

[A]

So true.

[B]

And know just the right tool for that job. And I'm just like, I've been in hundreds of things, and I'm like, oh, I'm not fully cooked. I have some work to do.

[A]

It's fine.

[B]

Oh, no, it's great. More confusion. More. More confusion.

[A]

You know what another thing about more confusion is? Confusion leads to a beginner's mind.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

So it's like. It is a gift. You're. There's no. There's no. I've been in hundreds of things in that. You're like, I just got here, and I don't know what the hell is happening.

[B]

That's right. Well, I just. Listen. Somebody asked Rupert in a podcast, Rupert Spira, that I was listening to. They were like, do you have any questions? And he was like, I don't, but it's not because I have this all figured out. I used to constantly, day and night, he was like, I would dream about the nature of reality. I was constantly questioning and thinking about it. And then he was like. And because of, like, grace or love, and this is very sort of Judeo Christian. But he was like, at a certain point, the head stuff settled. It, like, condensated into my heart, and now I just don't spend. He's like, when I'm teaching, I'm thinking about it, and then the rest of the time, I'm just kind of living from my heart. And he said, from my body right and there. So it's not what the ego would like, which is, oh, I don't have any questions about reality.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's more like you bang it so much that at a certain point, and I've started to feel some of that wilting, some of that. Less of a need to really constantly understand. For me, like, it's come back to, like, this is it. This is the mystery that we're talking about. And I know that sounds so obvious, but, like, there's A moment every morning, and it's usually one of my early thoughts. I say with a little bit of pride is I get up and I'm like, it's this. It's. It's here. I'm here again. Wow. Wow. What is. The idea that there could be separate consciousnesses is absurd. Explore. There would have to be an edge to your consciousness that would differentiate me from yours. Clearly.

[A]

Non. Dual.

[B]

Non. Dual. Understanding is not concerned with your understanding. It's the I that does the understanding.

[A]

And it's all one. Not too.

[B]

Trying to. I'm trying to talk about the Dude.

[A]

Okay. That was the other thing I want you to do. So we were in the car driving home from Dropping Leela, and you were.

[B]

What song was it?

[A]

It was Shorty. It was the ver. The version of.

[B]

Oh, yeah, What. How does that go? Shorty, you're my angel. You're my darling angel, Closer than my peeps you are to me.

[A]

And then I said, keep going because.

[B]

I'm trying to talk about the Dude. He is in the Big Lebowski. He's trying to talk about the Dude. But you just want him to.

[A]

Yeah, I just want him to keep saying, shorty talk, singing that song, you're mine, and I love that. It's the Shorty beef.

[B]

It's what's for dinner. Dinner. Dinner. It's one of my favorite parts of that commercial. That commercial is when he says, beef, that's what's for dinner. Knowing Jesse James. Jesse James. Brad Pitt is going to kill this guy. And he goes, I'll take you into town, buy you dinner. And I'm like, how do you say buy you dinner in a way that no one thinks dinner is coming?

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

Say, I'll buy you dinner.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But mean, I'm going to shoot you.

[A]

You can only say it like a cowboy.

[B]

Yeah, you can do it, but I still want to hear you do it.

[A]

No, I want to hear you do.

[B]

It first as my voice.

[A]

I don't know. It's your. It's your.

[B]

But I just did it as Jesse James.

[A]

Yeah. So try to do it as your voice.

[B]

Oh, this is so hard for me. This is what I was talking to John C. Reilly about. More than nailing the magic of playing pretend and really embodying a person that's saying, I'm going to murder you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So much more. I just want you, the only person loaded into my momentary ram, to like me. That's the only. Well, I'm not going to say to you. I'm going to say to this bottle of magic mind.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Why don't we go into town? I'll buy you dinner.

[A]

That's great.

[B]

Was it good?

[A]

Yeah, it was excellent. Hundreds of things, even in hundreds of things.

[B]

I remember John C. Reilly said, you just have to find if a casting director says, look at me, and. As if you're gonna kill me. He was like, well, just find the part of you that wants the part and will be mad at them if you don't give it to him and just think about how you would want to kill him.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And I'm like, wow.

[A]

I don't love how easily he could access the feeling of wanting to get, like, I just. Or, you know. You know how you, like, have a mer. I can't.

[B]

I'm blow on the ember, Kermit the frog. Well, you know, people do a lot of bad impressions of me. It's not how I sound. And it's like, yes, it is.

[A]

Yes, it is.

[B]

Yes, it is, Johnny. It's not stupid. It's how it is. It's not, though. I know what he means. There's some people that sound a certain way, like Ray Romano, and then they sound another way in our heads. And if you do the way he sounds in our heads, we'll all think that's how he sounds. That's what's happening with Johnny C. Yeah, that's true. Full respect, Johnny C.

[A]

Okay, let me see if I can do it. I really don't think I can.

[B]

I think you can.

[A]

And I feel bad because the last one I did. See, I'm having it, too. The last one I did. It was. Didn't. Wasn't good. But sometimes I am good at these games. Yeah, but this one is out of my.

[B]

Can you do it?

[A]

No one would.

[B]

Jesse James first.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Take you into town, buy a dinner.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Buy a dinner.

[A]

That definitely buy you dinner. Buy a dinner.

[B]

Oh, that was good.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That was scary. You were like the main guy's scary number two guy. Yeah, I didn't like it.

[A]

Take you into town, buy a dinner.

[B]

Good.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I liked it, and I didn't like it. See, what you made me feel is what I don't want to make people feel, where they're like, oh, Jesus, I don't like that. I don't like that one. But then they're like, we have to cast them.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

He haunted me, and I'm just like, you know, hopefully I'll get over it. I just want casting directors to be like, that's how you audition. Not. That was the guy I want them to be like, he remembered everyone's name now.

[A]

That's how you audition.

[B]

Now. That's how you do it. He should teach a class.

[A]

He's not right for this.

[B]

But, I mean, I got that feeling teaching class. I got that feeling. John C. Reilly and true actors, like, don't care.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If you like them. They just want to be that. He said that it really changed the way I'll think about acting forever is he was like, I just love playing pretend. Like, trying to make it real. Like really being a cowboy who wants to kill somebody.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Almost like all honoring imagination.

[A]

They. And they do, like, real actors like that also fall in love with characters, and then they, like, want to do the character justice.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. It's true insanity, meaning. Yeah, I don't think. I don't mean bad insane. I mean, it's the opposite of building a bridge where it's like, this makes sense. People will drive on this. It's like, yeah, it's all imaginative that this is how Harvey Milk would eat his breakfast. And I'm like, all right.

[A]

I know it's true. It's. It's. Yeah, it's. It all lives in creativity and imagination.

[B]

Okay, I'll be John C. Reilly. You ask me if I've ever acted in anything.

[A]

Okay. Have you ever acted in anything?

[B]

Oh, well, yeah. I don't mean to laugh, but sort of what I'm known for, you know, really, it's like skateboarding Wreck It Ralph with Sarah Silverman. You know, she's little girl I love. I'm dipping into, like, that.

[A]

The first thing he mentions, Reggae Ralph.

[B]

You know, maybe John T. Reilly clearing his throat. Well, you know, I just want to do the character real, you know, it's very cool. Paul, Paul. He's talking about Paul Thomas and Paul. Paul and I were at an in and out, and he looked at his fry and goes, this looks like big dick. That's. That's where Boogie Nice came from.

[A]

Oh, my God. That's.

[B]

That's where it came from. People don't know.

[A]

That is, like. That is so funny because that is, like, real. Like, I feel like, oh, it is real.

[B]

All of the geniuses are like, he saw a drop of water on his cup.

[A]

But I feel like that's Avatar specifically. We've had the experience with Paul Thomas Anderson where we're just like, you are such a genius. But he's, like, the most, like, real person, like, ordinary guy. And I think so much of his work, it seems. I don't know. This is so Subconscious that not. He doesn't even know.

[B]

Well, remember when we saw licorice pizza and they were like, why is everyone running?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he goes, yeah, I didn't even notice that until we put the movie together.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And then he goes, I just remember when we were kids, it would just be running all the time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was like, that's it.

[A]

And there are people who like, have YouTube videos about like the movement and licorice pizza and how it's constantly moving and you're. And he's like. He was just like, yeah. When we were kids, we ran.

[B]

It's like Radiohead. There's something about the album in Rainbows, which is, I think everyone's favorite radio ad album.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That there's something. Okay.

[A]

Computer.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

I'd rather listen to In Rainbows.

[B]

That's a classic Valerie. That's like when we were dating, you'd say something like that.

[A]

She really did. Just look at me with like the most love you've ever.

[B]

It took me back. It took me back. We miss each other so bad.

[A]

No, we missed each other getting rocked. God, they don't tell you how much you will miss your partner when you have a kid.

[B]

Well, the snooty. Why do you only. Why are you gonna only have one kid? And I won't say it to other parents because it implies. It's like by implication. It's like, well, if you have two kids, you must not like your partner. That's obviously not true.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We just have our hands full. And I'm like, I miss Val.

[A]

I know. I'll never forget the way you just looked at me. That was really cute.

[B]

It was so real. Israel. Israel. There was a shirt when I was in Israel that said Israel. Israel.

[A]

That's great. Not to bring up Israel.

[B]

Not to bring up Israel. But I actually am considering that, like, that wasn't just a funny thing. Israel is real. They're saying. No, it's real. It's a state. It needs to be.

[A]

You're right. It was a political statement.

[B]

I just thought it was a funny shirt.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they only made it in girls sizes for some reason. And I would have bought it just like wearing a shirt that says Israel.

[A]

And you would have had no idea that you were making affirm to something.

[B]

To a lot of people, it's like, oh, really?

[A]

I know where you stand.

[B]

Well, they gave us bumpers. We went to the. To the Golan Heights. Which is a very. It's probably in the news currently. Like, oh, no, this is me going, like, flooding with panic is the golan forget. I'm walking away. I'm walking away from this whole subject. Closer than my peeps. You are to me. Dude, what if he said that? What if. Look at my mustache. You won't feel the tickle on her Vojin.

[A]

Oh, God.

[B]

Yikes. I'm a man. Let's see.

[A]

Not when you're with Sammy.

[B]

When you're with Sam, everybody's Sam Hole.

[A]

Oh, God.

[B]

Sam Hole. L. Jackson. Everyone's a Sam Hole. You want to meet my L. Jackson?

[A]

How you think he got his name? When I met him, he was just L. Jackson.

[B]

Then I turned him into my Sam Hole. Finish the riff.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

I'm not saying it. You said it.

[A]

No, you said it. Is that enough podcast for you people?

[B]

You know, I. I. So I heard it.

[A]

Did you hear it? I did. My stomach, so hungry.

[B]

Well, let's get you some food.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I do want to say I bought a tape player to play this cassette called John and Pete's Comedy. It didn't work, though. Oh, no. The tape is so old. I feel like I need, like, how.

[A]

Old is.

[B]

This tape? Remembers Joe Biden when he was there at the invention of fire. That's how old this tape is. Okay. You get it?

[A]

Yeah, baby.

[B]

Joe Biden, baby B.G.

[A]

B. Oh, BJB.

[B]

I couldn't do it.

[A]

I know.

[B]

You broke me.

[A]

I'm sorry.

[B]

I want to say that. Classic. Every once in a while, I'm like, boy, we really opened up a sticky pickle when we started doing these bonus episodes. And I was like, you, like, doubled the work and all this sort of stuff. Yeah, but then episodes like this, like, it's like a car wash. You're such a joy to talk to. And on the other end of it and to be listened to by. I know I did a lot of yammering, but, like, you giving me that space to kind of just like. Like. Like banging a dusty carpet on a clothesline. And then at the other side of it, you're just like. And it's so essential. I think it's so funny that I'm like, I'm gonna go back to therapy. And I'm like, you mean another therapist? It's. It seems very silly. Look, full respect to licensed therapists. I'm about it. That's who I'm gonna go see. But, like, you're. You're the real deal, too.

[A]

Thank you. But a lot of what I got, what I have is stuff I got from therapy.

[B]

Yeah, of course. Of course. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

But thank you for saying that.

[B]

Just because you smell like a barbecue doesn't mean we can put cold meat on you, Dr. Phil. Dr. Phil, how do you like to be a samhole? Oh, Jackson. Well, honestly, just because you wear a 10 gallon hat doesn't mean you have any water on you.

[A]

And you're just like, what does this have to do about my emotionally neglectful husband?

[B]

Wait, what?

[A]

I feel like that's like vulnerable people come to him and he just gives.

[B]

Like Dr. Phil.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, yeah. He's like.

[A]

Like I don't get the right.

[B]

Just because your peanut butter doesn't mean jelly's on its way.

[A]

And you're like, okay, so I should leave him.

[B]

Yeah. So I need to call the police. A bag of peanuts doesn't mean there's shells on the floor. Huh?

[A]

Why are they all about peanuts or peanut butter?

[B]

I got you. You see from Phil's point of view that there's a BB and J over the guests. Look, you put that in my ram. That's all I'm thinking about.

[A]

He has the same RAM problem.

[B]

Just because you cut the crust off makes it a softer sandwich. But it doesn't mean it's not a PB and J.

[A]

So do I need to get full custody, you think?

[B]

Or a bag of potato chips might be a serving. But I'm not Mr. Lay's. You're not Mr. Lays.

[A]

A bag of a chip.

[B]

A bag of chips is mostly air. Doesn't mean it's not going to make you fat. That sounds like a real one.

[A]

That does sound like a real.

[B]

Half a bag of chips is air still makes you fat. All right. All right, Doctor.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

All right, well, I love this and I'm glad we did it.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

Thank you so much for being here.

[A]

I think you should say it as Sam Elliot, but then you have to say embedded in the song.

[B]

Shorty, you're my angel. You're my darling angel. Closer than my peeps you are to me. Dude, keep it crispy. Keep. Keep it crispy. You have to do it too, though.

[A]

Keep it crisp.