We Made It Weird #182

Summary

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You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes

We Made It Weird #182
June 28, 2024

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Episode Overview

In this deeply candid, hilarious, and heartfelt episode, Pete Holmes and his wife Val take listeners on a freewheeling journey through language quirks, nostalgia, trauma healing, generational patterns, and the weirdness of family life. The conversation oscillates between lighthearted banter (the “party in the front”) and honest exploration of personal growth, trauma, and healing (the “business in the back”)—making for what the hosts call “a mullet” of an episode.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The "Mullet" Episode and Language Weirdness

[00:23-02:42]

• Pete and Val joke about pronouncing “mullet” (“mullet” vs “mullet”) and “almond”, playfully analyzing East Coast accents and language idiosyncrasies.
• Val teases Pete for not pronouncing the L in “almond,” sparking banter about regionalisms.
• Pete reflects on his Boston roots and the humility of remembering, “Don’t forget, you might be wrong.”

“This episode is a mullet. There’s so much laughing up top. Ugh. Premium.”
— Pete, [00:30]

2. Nostalgia: MySpace, Top 8, and Early Internet

[08:14-24:48]

• The hosts reminisce about MySpace—customizing pages, picking Top 8 friends, and early online flirtations.
• Val shares a teen crush story involving an online musician friend, the drama of “top eight,” and the concerns about online catfishing.

“I wish I could be in your top eight.”
— Pete, [21:20]

• They fondly acknowledge the formative weirdness and innocence of internet adolescence.

Language-Driven Tangents on Pens and Tetris

[13:33-17:34]

• Extended, whimsical riffing on the pleasures of writing with a bold Sharpie vs. a light ballpoint pen.
• Pete compares writing with a Sharpie to the satisfaction of fitting a long piece in Tetris: "That pen is a Tetris."
• The segment becomes a playful analogy about personalities and preferences ("weak pen, no good"), poking fun at Trump and debate culture.

3. "Turtles All The Way Down": Reality, Wonder, and Parenting

[25:35-28:49]

• Pete introduces the “turtles all the way down” myth—a metaphor for the endless questions about reality and existence.
• The couple relates this to parenting, recounting playing “the why game” with their daughter Lila, which quickly turns philosophical about kindness, connection, and the unity of everything.

“It’s turtles all the way down, my brother.”
— Pete, [27:27]

4. Family Patterns, Trauma, and Self-Compassion

[34:08–58:40]

• Pete opens up about recent therapy, trauma work, and re-experiencing childhood emotions after a trip to Boston to see his parents.
• They discuss how trauma shapes coping strategies and beliefs ("It's probably trauma"), emphasizing the importance of feeling through rather than intellectualizing old pains.
• They draw parallels between spiritual awakening and trauma healing—both seeking presence, freedom from old constraints, and self-acceptance.

“One of the crazy revelations I think I’ve had from doing this trauma work is recognizing you were developing all these coping and survival strategies... Trauma work is your grown up self saying to that version of you, my love, we don’t need that belief anymore.”
— Pete, [39:17]

• Val reflects on the overlap between spiritual practice and trauma therapy, describing her own journey of learning to "go in and through" difficult feelings to find a love that "can hold everything, even the worst, darkest thing."

— Val, [43:32]

• They explain the difficult integration process of “the child self” and “the adult self,” using metaphors of being in two boats at once, and the destabilizing feeling of “wobbly ground.”

“It really was like you were in the child boat most of the time. And now you’ve stepped into the adult self boat and you’re trying to balance two wobbly boats without them drifting apart.”
— Val, [55:31]

• Pete describes the difficulty of reoccupying the adult self during family visits, how old patterns can be instantly reactivated by parents, and the exhausting (but transformative) work of not falling back into those roles.

5. Family Visits: Protective Instincts and Small Victories

[67:21–78:10]

• Pete tells stories from their trip, emphasizing Val’s insight: “In this family, parents bend toward the children, not the other way around.” This becomes a contrast with his own childhood dynamic.
• They deconstruct an incident where Pete tries to give his mom a coffee, only to be met with rejection—unpacking how these recurring patterns fostered anxiety and “protector” parts in Pete.
• Compassionate exploration of generational trauma, codependence, and the resolve to break cycles as parents themselves.

“She’s asking me, can you hold some of my pain, here, I’ll give it to you. And the problem is, no, I can’t. No. Because I’m your son and I actually need something very different from you.”
— Pete, [81:48]

6. Breaking the Cycle: Consciously Parenting and Healing

[83:13–88:16]

• Val affirms Pete’s commitment to not repeating unhealthy patterns with their daughter Lila, underlining the deep importance of meeting one’s own inner child’s needs in order not to project onto the next generation.

“You are stopping it right here and saying, okay, I can meet my own needs. I can go in, give my child self everything he needs so that I will not look externally and put that burden on anyone else, especially not a child.”
— Val, [87:19]

• They discuss the discomfort, courage, and gradual change involved in trauma healing, drawing analogies to heroic quests and affirming the role of friends as your “team” holding the line.

7. Humor, Pop Culture, and Comic Relief

Throughout

• The episode is laced with comedic digressions:
  • Political impressions and debate gags (Trump, Biden, “pantsing” politicians) [32:09–34:08].
  • Riffing on “Operation Avalanche,” Matt Johnson, and Nirvana the Band the Show [62:23–67:21].
  • Playful debate about coffee (“pot of black”), Tetris, and casino metaphors for therapy and trauma healing (“jackpot is the tears, therapist is the dealer”) [92:09].

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On generational trauma:
  “The pain pattern... is the child is expected to bend toward the parent... and so then the child—whose survival depends on the parent—never gets their needs met. So then they look to their child to meet their needs again. And then they grow up and their needs have never been met.”
  — Val, [86:51]

• On self-compassion & therapy:
  “I’m spending a lot of time asking my child self, what was that like? ...and doing a lot of a gentle man crying—the good kind of mansplaining, I don't know... Trauma work is the motherf—king same thing [as spiritual practice].”
  — Pete, [38:10]/[40:36]

• On humor as survival:
  “I’m trying to send in love soldiers. It doesn’t matter. There’s gonna be casualties. You wanna give her a coffee? I’m sorry. The mission is hand her a coffee.”
  — Pete, [80:11]

• On healing and friends:
  “I’m going into the cave, but there’s a series of ropes tied around my waist, and I have my people standing outside with their hands on the rope, and I can tug on that rope... and remember that I’m not alone.”
  — Val, [90:12]

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Timestamps of Significant Segments

• [00:23–02:42] — Mullet episode intro, language quirks, banter
• [08:14–24:48] — MySpace nostalgia, top 8, online relationships
• [13:33–17:34] — Pen preferences, Tetris analogy, humor
• [25:35–28:49] — "Turtles all the way down," philosophy, parenting and wonder
• [34:08–58:40] — Boston trip, trauma work, therapy/spirituality crossover, childhood roles
• [67:21–78:10] — Parenting moments, breaking family patterns, stories from the trip
• [80:59–84:35] — Coffee story, emotional fallout, compassion for parents and self
• [86:51–88:16] — Conscious parenting, ending trauma cycles
• [90:12–91:02] — Analogy of friends as “the team,” hero’s journey of trauma work

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Tone & Style

The episode embodies Pete and Val’s signature mix of earnest self-examination, irreverent humor, digressive play, and philosophical wonder. While the subject matter dives deep into intergenerational wounds and self-growth, the mood is frequently lifted by absurdist tangents, loving teasing, and mutual encouragement.

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For listeners who haven’t heard the episode:
This is an especially rich, honest, and funny entry in the series, exemplifying Pete & Val’s openhearted approach to personal weirdness, family legacy, and the bumpy—often hilarious—path toward healing.

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Transcript

[A]

You made it weird. You made it weird. You made it weird. Oh, yeah.

[B]

You made it weird. Yes, you did. You made it weird with Pete Holmes.

[A]

What's happening, weirdos?

[B]

What's happening, indeed. I know I say this a lot. This one was, like, epic. Like, I think we're gonna win a potty for this.

[A]

I think you said that in the last episode, and it is similar to the last episode where it's party in the front, business in the back.

[B]

This is a mullet. This episode is a mullet. There's so much laughing up top. Ugh. Premium.

[A]

Do you say mullet?

[B]

Mullet. What do you say? Mullet.

[A]

Mullet.

[B]

Mullet. Mullet.

[A]

Mullet.

[B]

Mullet.

[A]

Mullet.

[B]

Like mullet. Like.

[A]

Like mullet.

[B]

How do you say bullet?

[A]

Bullet.

[B]

Bullet. Mullet.

[A]

Yeah, like bullet. It's spelled the same.

[B]

No, I know, but you're saying bullet.

[A]

No, I'm saying mullet.

[B]

Mullet. You're saying mullet.

[A]

Yeah, like mutton.

[B]

Mutton. Give me the mutton. And cut my hair into a mullet.

[A]

You also don't say the L and almond, right?

[B]

Almond. That must be. I say aunt.

[A]

Well, aunt is an east coast thing. Maybe almond is an east coast thing, too. I don't know. But I smell in there.

[B]

As we. We talk a little bit about my trip to Boston. I always come home from Boston. I want to write on my bathroom mirror. Don't forget, you might be wrong. So mullet.

[A]

Mullet.

[B]

Mullet. Give me a mullet, like, and an almond mullet. And some milk. No, I'm saying almond and a mullet.

[A]

I don't think it's mullet. I'm making it. I'm exaggerating it. It's mullet.

[B]

Mullet.

[A]

Mullet.

[B]

Mullet.

[A]

Mullet.

[B]

Mullet.

[A]

Like mulled wine. Mullet.

[B]

Mulder had a mulled wine with his mullet. Scully had scoliosis with a scandal. The scandal was Scully's scoliosis. Mulder had mulled wine with a mullet Mueller. Welcome to I Swear, one of our finest episodes. We're so glad you're here. Petehomes.com, madison, Wisconsin, just got added on there. We also have Pittsburgh, we have Houston coming up. Please, please, please come to those if you're in the area and if you're in the LA area, we have my Largo shows. July 17th, August 16th, September 5th and 26th. All of those are going to be awesome. Go to largo-la.com for tickets and we'll get right into it. After you say that. Oh, no, we're going to do. I forgot how to host the show for a second. Katie, we don't do ads for things. I'm having a stroke.

[A]

It's fine.

[B]

We don't do ads for things that we don't actually use and love. In fact, many, many of them are on my desk currently. So if you want to support the sincere plea alert, it means a lot. If any of these things sound good or interesting to you, give them a try. That's a great way to directly support the show. Be sure to use the promo code and tell them Petey sent ya. Katie, roll that beautiful bean footage. When I first heard about mouth tape for sleeping, to improve your sleep, to get more oxygen, to make you breathe through your nose, which is so much better for you. Don't be a mouth breather. All of that stuff. Sleep better. I was worried. I mean, it seemed weird, to be completely honest. It seemed like I would put it on and I would feel suffocated. I would panic and I wouldn't be able to sleep. And I can't stress this enough. The exact opposite is true. It's like closing a bridge. It's like. Or maybe a tunnel and opening a bridge. Yeah, the nose is a bridge because it has a bridge, but it's like closing a tunnel, you know, like in a city. The tunnel's closed, so you take the bridge. That's what your brain does. It goes, oh, tunnel's closed. No problem. It gets the message, the mouth is closed. Let's breathe through the nose. It's completely natural. I would say argue, science would argue it's how we're supposed to be sleeping. Don't be a mouth breather. And the first time I tried hostage tape, I slept better. And it was completely comfortable and completely natural. And it peeled off easily in the morning, which is incredible. What is hostage tape? It is mouth tape. It helps you sleep. It's getting your brain 20% more oxygen. It's getting your body 20% more oxygen. It reduces your risk of sleep apnea. It helps eliminate, reduce snoring, in my case, getting rid of it entirely with a piece of tape. It even helps with oral hygiene and bad breath. When I went to the dentist recently, they asked me, do you breathe through your mouth when you sleep? And I was like, heck, no. Because of hostage tape, I was worried I'd feel trapped. I absolutely don't. I used it. I and immediately noticed a difference in my sleep. I was getting deep, deep, deep REM sleep. Wasn't waking up in the night out like a light, and Having deep, amazing dreams all night that you only get when you have that good REM sleep. So that was the proof that it was working for me. And I've tried other types of mouth tape in the past. I was like, oh, I saw hostage tape. I'll just try a mouth tape on Amazon. I bought one. It smelled like glue. It was too strong. It took my facial hair off. When I peeled it off in the morning, it smelled dunk. Go with the name brand, go with hostage tape. It's strong enough to stay on all night with no problem. It doesn't smell like glue and it peels off easily and comfortably in the meaning in the morning. So find out why they are the official sleep and breathing aid of the ufc. It's for a good reason and they are the real deal. And I'm so happy they are here to give us a special offer. You can get a six month supply for $99. That means you save 50 bucks for six months of better sleep, more oxygen, less snoring, better oral hygiene, less risk of apnea, and deep, deep dreams. Come on. Don't you want to be a Pegasus tonight? Go to hostagetape.com weird this is the only place Hostage Tape sells a six month bundle. Hostagetape.com weird. You won't find this anywhere else. Six months per for 99 bucks. Say 50 bucks hostagetape.com weird. We're also brought to us by our friends at Exploding Kittens. Both Paul and I are dads. Both Paul and I know how hard it is to get our kids to eat at the dinner table. And what we do now is we use games from the Exploding Kittens family of games. It's hard to get them there. But now that we play the best worst ice cream with Leela, we which is a great kids game, but it's also just a great game game meaning it's simple enough for Leela to learn, but it's fun enough that the entire family is literally hooting and hollering and basically almost like faux gambling. There's like a good chance element with this game. Laughing, squealing, hooting and hollering as I mentioned and having a lot of fun at the dinner table. Games. Guys, family, friends, they have adult games too for grownups. Get off your screen, get together, get shoulder to shoulder, get laughing, get playing together. It keeps Leela busy, it keeps her focused and I think it teaches her a low key lesson about the dangers of gambling. We love the best worst ice cream. We also love my parents might be Martians. It's similar to Pyramid, which is a game that I really love. But it's like the kids version where you try to get them to say a word only using single syllable words so you end up talking like a Martian. This game is a stick of dynamite. It is pure joy. So they also have exploding kittens for the grownups out there. Every game in the kittens game line was designed by a four year old and her dad for the kids, for the kittens. So you know, it's good. It's kid tested and kid approved. So head to explodingkittens.com and use promo code weird to get 25% off your purchase. That's explodingkittens.com promo code weird for 25% off your purchase. Our kids aren't gonna be kids forever. There's no time for boring games. Kitten games. Let's get into it. All right, everybody. We're so glad you're here. It's number 180.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah. 180 episodes.

[A]

All right, we'll go ahead and get into it.

[B]

Buenas ding dong Diligidias, everybody.

[A]

Buenas buenos ding dong.

[B]

Buenos ding dong, everybody. There was a time that calling M. Night Shyamalan. There was a time calling him M.

[A]

Night Shamalama Ding dong.

[B]

Is that time over?

[A]

Is that what you're gonna say?

[B]

Precise Amundo.

[A]

Do you know that my.

[B]

Because MySpace. MySpace.

[A]

Oh.com that MySpace.com. you know, like you never used your name. I don't know if that was happening in your age group.

[B]

Okay. I don't know. I don't like the like you're kind of straightening a tablecloth hand gesture kind of like a spell.

[A]

I don't know what what was happening in your age group, but my age.

[B]

Group I that can talk about this light. It's on. Keep going it.

[A]

You know, like you designed your mm page top eight, which. But like you had your top eight, but you can also pick different designs. Remember that? Like setting up a website so you could make the like squares like a certain color and then you have like a backdrop.

[B]

Yeah. It was very like lo fi, wasn't it?

[A]

I mean I felt like. Not for the time I thought.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Not for the time I remember. Yeah. Going to. I was just thinking about gym shoe. I called him gym Shoe. I'm laughing at how absurd that sentence is. It's just dead serious. I was just thinking about Jim Shoe. We've talked about Jim Shoe. I called him Jim Shoe. That is such a one man show. I was just thinking about Jim Shoe. I called him Jim Shoe, I have two.

[A]

I have too many questions.

[B]

Yeah or no, his name wasn't Jim. Is that one of them?

[A]

Yeah, I was wondering if his name was Jim Shue and you called him Jim Shoe.

[B]

Like, I would love to meet. If your name is Jim Shoe and you're listening, call in now. Go to any payphone and just hit any 10 digits.

[A]

But good luck finding a payphone.

[B]

Precise a mundo. Jim Shoe. I don't want to change. I want to stay on this. Jim Shoe was the guy at Bennigan's day I used to freestyle rap with.

[A]

Okay. Another just perfect sentence that I think we should maybe frame and put in our home.

[B]

Jim Shue was the guy at Bennigan's I used to freestyle ra rap with.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I was just thinking about Jim Shoe. I called him Jim Shoe. Is this David Sedaris? Is this as good as it gets? You're dying.

[A]

You're ill. You can't make me laugh.

[B]

You're Alan.

[A]

I'm ill and I'm chilling also, like.

[B]

Why in the hip hop community, the Beasties and all this, what were you gonna say? Is ill? Good. I don't understand. I'm like an old.

[A]

Same as sick or bad.

[B]

Yeah, but sick I get like, that's sick. But, like, ill just sounds like Nana's ill. Like, really.

[A]

That's unwell, dude.

[B]

Yeah. Why not unwell? Why not decrepit? That's really close to death.

[A]

The thing that I don't know, I.

[B]

Don'T like how I said kind of like with a flare. I didn't like it.

[A]

That's fine. I. What I hate about being sick right now is that it's just so every seasonal.

[B]

Yeah, you mentioned that.

[A]

I. I really like the seasons to stay in their lane.

[B]

Yeah, I get it. You want a hot water bottle and a scarf and a nice sniffly red nose.

[A]

Yeah. I keep wanting to make like my six soup, which is my red lentil soup.

[B]

Don't. What are you doing to me?

[A]

What?

[B]

My sick soup, which is a red lentil. And you just say it.

[A]

You know this.

[B]

I know, but it's just. It's too much sometimes.

[A]

Okay, I'm sorry. We'll tone it down. But I can't make it because. Too hot.

[B]

Everything you're saying, you're like a Greta Gerwig character, and it's a delight you're maintaining some of that spark and that zeal. Can I say I'm in one of those phases where I'm like. What I'm interested in is something that makes me Feel interested. I know that's so stupid. But, like, I feel like that's the feeling of middle age. You're still out there wanting your sick soups. Like, there are certain things that are. That. I was talking about this at Largo that, like, your 20s is your time to correct people on Frankenstein's Monster. Once you hit like 30. Fucking stop.

[A]

You stop, stop.

[B]

Then you're on to. You are your.

[A]

Or you do know that's still 20s, but there.

[B]

I just made that up. But there's.

[A]

There's different ones, I think when you're. When you're in your 20s, that's when you genuinely correct Frankenstein's Monster. They're safe.

[B]

And then later you go.

[A]

And then when you're in your 30s, you go, or whatever. Frankenstein's Monster.

[B]

That's right. And then in your 40s, I'll tell you, you just say it's Frankenstein.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's over. That. Is it that really twenties is sincere. Oh, I gotta write that down. Twenties. I'll write it here. Twenties. Oh, great. Isn't that one of the least sad? I just wrote this on the back of a sticker.

[A]

Don't you hate when you accidentally write something on the back of a sticker?

[B]

Well, it's where a sticker was, which. The only way. I'm using a Sharpie and the. Oh.

[A]

My God.

[B]

And the only way.

[A]

Riveting podcast.

[B]

The only way I can describe writing on what was once the adherence plane for a sticker.

[A]

Jesus.

[B]

Do you know. Does everyone know what I'm talking about? You have a piece of. You have a piece of sticker. You peel the sticker off. What's left is an off white, semi slick previous home of the sticker. It used to hold the sticker, but what's left now is just kind of like a. What is it? It's a little bit slick. It's a little shiny.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

And then you grab a Sharpie. Sharpie, Sharpie. The fucking Tetris of pens. You know what I mean? No, not the game. But when you get a Tetris, like the long and the full stack. When you get along in the full stack, what the hell is happening when you're playing Tetris?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know this. And it's set up perfectly. And there's just one slot the size of the long piece.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know that's called a Tetris?

[A]

No, I didn't know.

[B]

Did you know it's a noun. I didn't know that's a Tetris.

[A]

I didn't Know, it was a noun, but I could have used context clues, but I didn't know what a full stack was.

[B]

No one. That's where I was. I was wandering away from the RV on that one.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And there were animals tracking me. Oh, God, I peed on myself. Which made it easier for them to find me.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

So anyway, I'm trying to write on that slick former home of a sticker, the Adherence plane.

[A]

Adherence plane.

[B]

And you write with a Tetris of a pen, which is the Sharpie I still don't get. What I'm saying is it's so permanent, it's so bold.

[A]

I'm saying it's so noun.

[B]

Tetris. Like the feeling of writing on a clay, clean white piece of paper with a black. A new black. I'm talking pointy tip. Sharpie is the feeling of a Tetris.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I'm speaking like the guy that thinks he's so interesting. I'm speaking in feelings. Like, shut the up.

[A]

That's my feeling also, by the way. Just such a quick tangent on the thousands of tangents that we have. Don't forget, you love a bold pen. You love a bold pen.

[B]

Look, I wrote it on the. On the thing.

[A]

Adherence plan.

[B]

Adherence. MySpace. I wrote it. I do love a bold pen, and I hate it. I hate a. I. I'm going to say it. A weak pen.

[A]

And I hate something Trump would say.

[B]

A weak pen. Weak pen, no good.

[A]

And I think that.

[B]

That, by the way, we haven't seen the debate, so no hot take there. Did something happen with a pen? You guys are in the future. We're in the wandering zone.

[A]

Oh, right.

[B]

You're in the knowing zone. If something happened with the pen, I regret it. I regret it. I'm dead.

[A]

I. I wonder if there is something to be said about your personality if you like a bold pen or not. Because I love a light pen and I feel like I like your tattoo. Yeah. I write so bad. So much better in, like, a smooth, light ballpoint pen. And all the pens that you have in this house are Sharpies or those, like, droopy ones where if you stop to think for a second, you. You got a glop.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That pen is. That pen is a woman with a tight bun, pearl necklace, scratchy top, buttoned up tight. It's like a jacket. You don't see what's under it. It's tight.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And she's tapping her watch.

[A]

Yeah, that's what that. This pen is a Tetris.

[B]

This pen Is a Tetris.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I'm in kind of a shamanic space. I'm able to see feelings. And that's a librarian.

[A]

Let's just call that she's a librarian.

[B]

But she's tap, tap, tapping.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I also like pens that will open, you know, when you buy, like, a novelty toy, as opposed to those practical toys, but a toy for novelty. And let's say it's like a Donkey Kong arcade watch.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You are in, like, what I would have known as a Newbery Comics growing up. You might know it as a. Not quite a Spencer's, but a little.

[A]

Bit of a. I mean, I'm sure we had comic book stores, but I did not.

[B]

Spencer's is Newberry comics going through a goth phase that somehow lasted 30 years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Spencer's Gifts has.

[A]

How has it survived? Also Hot Topic.

[B]

Yeah, it is.

[A]

But I guess Hot Topic is, like, the only place for goths to go.

[B]

Spencer's Gifts is Hot Topic. Yeah, it's just Coke, Pepsi. It's the same, but they're still selling. Like a wide leg. Like a tree trunk trouser. Like a tree trunk trouser.

[A]

Covered your mouth like a little school girl trying not to giggle.

[B]

Like a little bitch. You can say bitch.

[A]

No.

[B]

All right, you can say bitch. Joe Biden, you're a bitch.

[A]

To close the MySpace thread says it.

[B]

You're a bitch.

[A]

He will, I'm sure, skyrockets through the puzzles.

[B]

You are a bitch. I'm sure the country erupts. Like when you're watching the super bowl and you hear people cheering in their home. Like, you hear thousands of people just Dracula dead and loving it.

[A]

I do think that the moderator at some point is gonna have to say something like, let' not name call, please. Is it Anderson candidate?

[B]

Is it a Coops?

[A]

A Coops, sir? I don't know, sir.

[B]

I'm just saying you're a Anderson. You're a. Everyone's a except me. Vote for the one non bitch on the ticket. I'm such not a bitch. I'm not even on the ticket. If you want to vote for me, you go in the booth and you shout, counts.

[A]

It counts. He's crying, he's weeping. It counts.

[B]

Oh, my God. When you write on the adherence plane, it kind of writes it in, like, kind of a cool font, to be honest. Like a. It looks like. Well, it's my handwriting. It's certainly the font, but the texture of that font is like. It looks like watercolor. Like, very spotty.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, look. What do you got? What do you got? What do you.

[A]

What were you saying to close the MySpace thing? I had. I was. I.

[B]

That's where we're going Back to. Because MySpace is on the paper. I thought we were on something else.

[A]

Okay, well, what were you originally gonna write on the adherence plane?

[B]

The. The Frankenstein. Thank you. Okay, so do that twenties Frankenstein.

[A]

And then I don't know what else happened. I burned out between 40s.

[B]

Back to Frankenstein. Yeah, that's the bit. I need bits, man. I'm dying for bits.

[A]

Okay. Came from the age group thing. I just am saying my space. I really, as you could imagine, really enjoyed.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like, creating the experience of my page. I, like, I had. At one point, I had Orange sky as, like, the song that would play. I loved that you could click on somebody's page and then there would be a. And I had orange sky. And then I had, like, a sunset.

[B]

Beneath an orange guy.

[A]

Colors, like, theme. It was very romantic.

[B]

I wish I could go to it.

[A]

And all of that.

[B]

I wish I could go to your. The most romantic thing you could say. I wish I could be in your top eight.

[A]

I had a whole thing with this guy.

[B]

No, I hate it.

[A]

I know. No, I was, like, 15, and I think he was 18. He was so cute, and he was, like, this musician, and he, like. He lived, you know, far away. And it was like, one of those things where, like, we. We messaged each other on MySpace and was very, like, flirty and witty and cute. And he, like, sent me one of his demos.

[B]

Okay. He sent me a huge demo, and.

[A]

We were in each other's top eights.

[B]

Oh, that's so cute.

[A]

And it was really cute.

[B]

Now you won me over. The whole. That whole part. I was tense and uncomfortable. Ended in a cute top eight.

[A]

He was like, the, like, such a big crush for me. And we, like, messaged every day, and it was really cute and flirty and fun. And then my friend's big sister was like, who is this random guy in your top eight? And I was like, oh, that's Matt. And we're whatever. Like, we're just talking or whatever. And she was like, you can't do that. Which she had the appropriate reaction to.

[B]

What I would do.

[A]

She was just like, you could be getting catfished right now. Like, you don't know that that's a real person. And that's. And I was like. I really thought that he was. I was like. He sent me his CD of his songs, and it's like, I just really was like, it would take so much work to do this authentic of catfishing.

[B]

But aren't all consistent hinged on, like, who has the time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's why the overwhelmed are the most conable.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Like, I dream of a world where.

[A]

I have the time.

[B]

Steam opening an envelope. Yeah, like that. That looks luxurious.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I would love to take the decal of NASA off a toy and put it on a check.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Catch me if you can. Catch me if you can. The pre. Ripley.

[A]

Yeah, I was going to say, but also Ripley.

[B]

But enjoying Ripley.

[A]

Enjoying Ripley.

[B]

Enjoying Ripley.

[A]

Yeah. Anyway, I.

[B]

So if you tune into this podcast for what? To watch. Watch Ripley.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You'll like it. Pretty good.

[A]

It sufficiently freaked me out, though. So I took him off my top eight, and then there was, like, this very big, dramatic thing where he messaged you. Yeah. And he was like, what happened? Why did you take me off your top eight? And I was like, I just feel like all of a sudden, I feel kind of worried about, like, chatting with you now. And then he was like, I understand. And that was it. And it was just like. And I've tried to look him up since, but he has such a common name that you can't.

[B]

Anders Anderson, basically.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I went to college with an Anders Anderson, and me and my roommate Chuck couldn't have found that funnier. Yeah, Anders.

[A]

Bold choice.

[B]

Your last name is Anderson. Here's. Here's a list of names that are off. You can't have them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Anders and Anders and Anderson.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But even Anderson Anderson. At least it's, like, a bit name.

[A]

Well, Anders Anderson is a bit name.

[B]

Because Anders Anderson's son would be Anders Anderson's son.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Anders Anderson son.

[A]

Anyway, all of that is to say that my MySpace name was Mama Lama Ding Dong, so I brought it back to Ignite Shyamalan.

[B]

Are we, like, masters of improv? Are we.

[A]

Are we.

[B]

Are we flying a kite in a way that no one else? Because we went from. Look, a lot of people. No one ask us never. Do you plan not happen. It's never happened once. Do you plan what you talk about?

[A]

And no one thinks that we do.

[B]

No one thinks we do. But when they say that, which they don't, I say, listen, it's clear. Prav. We are green lighting.

[A]

We're.

[B]

Yes. Sanding. We are turtles all the way down.

[A]

Is that a term?

[B]

You don't know the phrase turtle all the way down?

[A]

I don't know turtle or not.

[B]

You don't know turtles all the way down.

[A]

I don't know turtles.

[B]

It's not an improv term.

[A]

What is it? A turtle turf.

[B]

It's an old, old, old, old wooden ship. You knew it. It's an old, old wooden ship. It's. I don't know whose mythology it is, but there is a people. To you and I, they would seem primitive. A hut dwelling.

[A]

Okay. So just call them indigenous.

[B]

I actually don't even know if that's true.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I've always imagined it might be like a shaman kind of thing, like a. Like an Amazon. I don't know, though.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But turtles all the way down is the earth. Why doesn't the earth fall? They would say, because it's in space.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Why doesn't it fall? And that say, well, it's. The whole earth is on the back of a turtle. And then a child. I'm making it a story. A child is purported to say, what's holding up the turtle? The shaman with a twinkle in his eye says, oh, my dear boy, it's turtles all the way down.

[A]

What?

[B]

You've never heard. You've never heard the guy who just got out of college and he's giving being a grown up a try. You've never heard, like, he thinks that's how grown ups talk. Oh, my, oh, my.

[A]

You've never heard.

[B]

You've never heard.

[A]

You've never heard.

[B]

Turtles all the way down.

[A]

Like, so they're like, stacked.

[B]

Yeah. You can find memes, images, like, people make images of. It's the earth and there's just thousands of turtles. It's just a way of saying, like, who fucking knows, man? It's turtles all the way down. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah. I love this. I love this.

[B]

Now Dracula dead and loving it.

[A]

Yeah. Turtles all the way down, my brother.

[B]

Turtles all the way down is premium. Premium wool suits.

[A]

Leela did do, like.

[B]

Excuse me. I threw out a look.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And that was my way of saying it. Next game of Street Fighter is mine.

[A]

All right.

[B]

No, go ahead. Lila did what now?

[A]

She, like, was doing a why. You know, the why game where I would say something and then she say why? And then say something and she said why? I was, like, kind of up for it. And those games even, like, just always get to, like, the nature of reality. So it's like, because it's good to be kind. Why? Because we need each other. Why? Because it was designed that way. Why? Well, I don't know.

[B]

Like, it's because the nature of the universe is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because unconsciously we know we belong to each other.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Why? Because everything is one thing. Why? Because the fundamental Non fragmentable essence of nature would have to be one thing.

[A]

Right.

[B]

We have to be that thing.

[A]

But I didn't really get into that. I just. I was. I kind of said. I was like, well, we don't know. And she was like, why? And I was like, because it's more fun to wonder. And then I was like, yeah, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[B]

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[A]

But that was before I heard Turtles all the way down. And now. That is my religion.

[B]

That's my religion now. Turtles all the way down. I also just recently heard about. And this could. Whenever you're dealing with Native. I'm not trying to be funny. Native American stuff. Nas. Nas is Native American stuff. The rapper Nas. Because I don't. There's not a lot of Native American imagery, but now that I know what his name, it's insanity.

[A]

This is really dumb.

[B]

So Native American stuff, always tricky. So with full respect and the openness to being wrong. I heard that when there was a lot of early steel work in America, I'm imagining early 1900s, that a lot of the employees that they got employees. I don't know. I don't know if this is a terrible situation, but a lot of the people that did the steel work in those early days of building up American cities were Native American. This is what I was told. And it was great. I know, I know. Yeah. Somehow that was glossed over in the retelling. I'm like, what. What kind of situation is this? Not sure. But the reason, let's say it's consensual for the.

[A]

I mean, but they don't want. They probably didn't want the progress in that way anyway. Go ahead.

[B]

Well, yeah, let's get the guys that never did that to do that. It's kind of weird. It's like getting Amish to install your DirecTV. Yes, it's wrong. Yeah, I get it. Look, when this person said it, they were done and already halfway through a cigarette by now. All they said was because in this person's report, Native Americans are less afraid of dying because they're just more super spiritual culture and had more awareness and less attachment to, like, traveling between planes, worlds, lives, whatever you might want to say. So they don't have. This sounds like white person bullshit as I'm saying it.

[A]

And even if it is true, you're.

[B]

Like, is it our.

[A]

Certainly a white person was like. And we could use that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

To make money.

[B]

Right, Right. And also not only use that lack of fear to have them build stuff but also use that story as like my empowerment.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I get it.

[A]

Or I'm not just make that assumption to then justify slavery. Well, they don't mind if they die.

[B]

Well, we're not sure.

[A]

Pretty sure. It probably wasn't.

[B]

Here's American history. George Washington. I was going to say 9 11. That's not right. No, but I was just looking for big American things. You can't, you can't be mad at me. On a list of big American things. That's what Batman stands for. I mean he sometimes references America, but not enough to be called big American things. Man.

[A]

Oh my God. How did you do that?

[B]

I can't.

[A]

You did. He did a Nas and then you instantly went to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Also Batman does stand for big American things. Superman especially does Superman.

[B]

Is Trey American. Which is funny to say because that's French. I want to say for those of you keeping up week by week on this pod one, you are darling. Who are you? Who are you?

[A]

Say your name out loud right now.

[B]

Say it out loud. And when you vote for Trump, say that out loud. It works. It's a beautiful way to vote. More masculine, more beautiful. My beautiful red bush. Actually the bush has been long gray. I die up top down south. It's the South Pole down there.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

Are Trump's pubes orange? Are they answer from your gut.

[A]

No.

[B]

He keeps him natch. So you he's one pantsing away from like a pretty big demoralization.

[A]

Oh my God. Could pants Trump would be the hero of and then you our generation you.

[B]

Pants Biden and it's just two robo legs like he's been slowly replace like grandpa's boat. You know that one? Grandpa's boat. That's another turtles all the way down. Anyway, isn't it just in vogue right now to also take a little shot at Biden? Oh, devilish. I, I sometimes I look at how we're all in the same ocean and it's just so stupid. And we all think it's us, but it's really like when you like like with something big like me too. And then it starts to like soften and people start kind of like maybe saying maybe disease isn' same as Harvey Weinstein. We all did that on the same timetable. Did you notice that? You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like we and making fun of Biden as well. When Biden, when it was down to that last election, you weren't making fun of Biden. And then we all. But we all did it at the same time. We're all like butterfly affecting one another is all I'm saying.

[A]

Well, that's for sure.

[B]

Whenever there's something happening to the entire country. Which is why I picked me to in an election. Yeah, we're all kind of doing it as one giant school of fish. My nose is running. I'm gonna pinch it with my PJs.

[A]

Oh, man. I can confirm you are pinching with your Panda PJs.

[B]

My Panda PJs have pinched my parched parasol. Okay, I already know this is one we're gonna listen to again and again.

[A]

Pure insanity.

[B]

On Christmas and Christmas Eve.

[A]

The way you said on Christmas. Your face looked so sweet and earnest.

[B]

On Christmas.

[A]

On Christmas.

[B]

Let me. Let me update all the sweet babies that have been listening.

[A]

Oh, God. Oh, God.

[B]

Doesn't sound as bad in here.

[A]

Okay, well, it sounds really terrible out here.

[B]

I did go. We did go. But that's significant. The language that. I went to see my parents because you were there too. But you know, I'm back. Long silence. I'm back. We went to. We went to Boston to see my parents. Long silence. I'm back. And you know, it was very interesting. And today I'm feeling real nice. Right now I'm feeling real nice. Slowly getting back into a place. Remember the Pete from like five. Well, I'll say three months ago, who is all about get up, spend the morning doing your spiritual stuff. Then first thing before you check your phone or email, spend two hours creating. Then around 1 o', clock, you're gonna look at your emails and your text, you're gonna bang those out and how good that feels, how amazing that is. Guess what? All of that so hard. Trauma.

[A]

Right?

[B]

I now have such a different appreciation for people. Meaning if someone is not good at replying to texts or emails or creating or getting up and going or whatever, grabbing life by the balls, it's probably trauma.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm saying that as someone who started to look under the pot, the pot lid, and take a peekaboo at the beans. At the beans. And the beans are just a lot of uncomfortable memories. And the memories to encourage people who might be trauma, curious. Trauma or curious. They're not necessary. I always thought it was gonna be like, and I opened the closet and there was my father with a knife. You know, like something like that. No disrespect to people that have trauma like that. I'm just saying I thought it had to be event based, kind of like a movie. Like you go into a hypnotic state or a psychedelic state or a meditative state. And that's when you remember, like, wait, I. Something about water dripping on my toe. And that might. That may be how some memories are revealed. And I want to honor those and have full respect. All joking aside, what I've been experiencing is repressed feelings. Not something as of yet that I didn't remember. It was a swirl of emotions, sensations, and then beliefs that were made from those emotional, sensational places. I could have let it go.

[A]

I couldn't have.

[B]

I know, but I didn't have to say it. I didn't have to say sensational. Anyway, the work has been with this new therapist I'm seeing all kind of talking a little bit about my childhood, whatever, but mostly stopping and feeling things.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And when I say that I would prefer my ego, my. My structure, my. My whatever. My presentational self would rather just talk about it.

[A]

Oh yeah.

[B]

I can't tell you what a simultaneous revelation and liberation it is and also what a clusterfuck of like crippling horror that it also is. Again, with nothing major to report to you or to the listeners. Anybody? I don't have a new story.

[A]

No.

[B]

I'm spending a lot of time asking my child self, what was that like? And, and saying, oh, darling, that. That must have been really hard.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And doing a lot of a gentle man crying, the good kind of mansplaining. I don't know. And then this is all to say, well, I want to make this point actually. First. One of the crazy revelations I think I've had from doing this trauma work is recognizing that you were developing all these coping and survival strategies and a lot of them are hinged to believe. A lot of them become beliefs. And then trauma work is your grown up self saying to that version of you, my love, we don't need that belief anymore. And what happens in that moment if you can connect, you know, actually get them to hear that and actually conjure them up and have them present for something like. I know you think we have to be anxious all the time because you never know when this, this or this. I know. That's how we got through that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We don't live in that house anymore. That's right, sweetheart. We don't live in that house anymore. The feeling is exactly. Not kind of like it. It's exactly the same as when I'm reading my Rupert Spira or I've been enjoying John Astin, as I mentioned reading my spiritual text, meaning spiritual liberation is a, you could say a reintroduction into reality. And what is reality? It's the present moment. And what are the qualities of the present moment? Especially it's easy to recognize this when we're just sitting here or if you're driving listening or you're on an airplane just listening to this. You can go like, well, it's spacious, it's clear, it's. It's safe, it's fine, it's okay. And even beyond circumstance, you go like, there's something okay behind everything. What I'm saying is when someone like Rupert or John takes me to my true nature and I have that feeling of liberation. And I think there's a reason why spiritual practices are so interested in Liber. Being liberated and being present and awake. Trauma work is the motherfucking same thing.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

You're asleep.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

You're not here and you're not spacious. You're tight.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're completely. So the, you could say the binding of weak spiritual language alert of our egos or our overactive minds or whatever is. It doesn't matter what the chains are. It could be trauma train trauma chains or just habitual unconsciousness that we all have to ward off. When either bondage is released, the same thing is, is shines.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Which. So here I am doing what I thought was separate from my spiritual work. It's like, I'll do my spiritual work and then I have therapy. I was like, oh my God. Both want you. This is going to sound funny. Both want you nude. They both want you naked.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To what is. And they're both asking you. You keep saying I'm this, this and this. Are you sure?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They both ask the same question.

[A]

Yep. Yeah. Absolutely.

[B]

Fun.

[A]

It's so. It's.

[B]

We haven't been recording.

[A]

It's just stupid. The like exact thing that lights me up is, is trauma work as a spiritual practice. It's so fun for me to get to see you. It seems weird to say that it's fun.

[B]

Well, I feel really good right now. It's hard to say that when I'm sadly washing a dish.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

As I have been.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I don't want to be false here. It's been hard. The trip home was hard.

[A]

It is hard.

[B]

And most of the time I happen to be jacked right now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But anyway, keep going.

[A]

No, it's really hard. And that is, you know, that was my experience was I was sort of in the spiritual community of. Of like I am specifically doing, like, I am not my thoughts, like sad guru. I Am not my body. I am not my thoughts.

[B]

Even my mind.

[A]

Yeah, even my mind. I'm not my body. I'm not my mind.

[B]

Even my mind.

[A]

Okay. Jesus. And at this. And then I would like have these therapy sessions where I would go into my body and I would face these feelings and I would feel them moving up and I would have love for them for helping me survive and I would connect with my child self and I would feel so like such an intense love that like held everything. Like all of a sudden I was the love that could hold all of it. Everything that happened to me, all of the feelings in my body, I could hold it all. And then I was like, that's getting me there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I am.

[B]

No, for. For real. Me too.

[A]

It was just the like from like going up to going in that. That difference and being like I'm actually. That's the road for me is go in and through. And then I can experience the love that holds it all. And it's fearless because it's not contingent on it because it's holding everything. It's. It's not contingent on anything being different. It's saying there's a love that can hold everything. Even the worst, darkest thing.

[B]

Right. Right. Welcome, welcome, welcome. I welcome everything that happens to me today because I know it's for my healing. There's something really interesting about investigating that and finding out that it's true.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And looking under the pot. And by the way, this is not my big graduation speech. My in conclusion moment.

[A]

No.

[B]

I've been feeling sad. No, you're sweet. You've done so well though.

[A]

I'm saying I'm a like, you know, I've been doing this work for five years, but I. Yeah. Don't think you ever have a graduation speech.

[B]

Right. I'm just using some of that language and I want to be careful to, you know, be honest and share that like it's. It's hard. It's not chill. It's not chill. And when you. If you would see what it is, if you would see that it's a guy with his hand on his chest closing his eyes and just asking parts of himself. What was that like?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then it's funny you mentioned the unexpected joy of it. There's been. And I'm not saying this to be a shiny special good boy. There's been fondness for my family. There's been fondness and a lot of self love for myself. And one of the weird. I haven't told you this because we never get to talk. Except this podcast which, you know, couple hack. Do a podcast together. I don't know. I, it. It's one of my great joys to schedule time to talk. But what was I saying? When I try to. I go back to the house I grew up in. That's really easy for me. Nobody asked me to do that. It's just like when we start talking to my child self. Where is he? He's in my bedroom. And there's my protector. And he's this haggard kind of skeleton, football padded man who's so tired. Yeah. And been tearing his hair out with the irregularity and unpredictability of the grown ups in his life. He's trying his best. But what's weird is, and even as I'm saying this to you now, one of the reasons why there's validity to this work in this way, you'll see what I'm saying. I think this speaks to the validity of the work. I can't picture myself as a grown up going into that room and talking to them. So when everybody's always like now go in as yourself now and talk to them. I can't do it. I'm translucent, I'm thin. I can't. I'm a visual thinker.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I've put on a suit before to try to feel like a grown up. I become small. I become.

[A]

You're so identified as the child self in that moment.

[B]

Maybe.

[A]

Okay, that could be jump.

[B]

That is certainly what. No, that's actually helpful. That seems to be what's going on is I'm like, no, I'm a child here. I'm a child here. And that's how I feel when I go to boss. I'm a child. I'm a child. I'm a child. I can't, I can't rope the grown up into that situation.

[A]

That makes perfect.

[B]

I feel. Even as I'm talking to you now, I feel shrinking. Like I feel like a, like a voodoo, classic voodoo spell. And I'm shrinking and I will resume my normal size when we're done. But anyway, it's just one way. It's very, very interesting work. Beautiful work. Trauma work. You got to do it. You got to go in deep. Feel it. I wish you were laughing. I in your 20s. Frankenstein. Anyway, that work. Oh, this is where I was going to go with that actually. You think maybe it would make the trip home to home, the trip to see my parents easier. It made it much harder.

[A]

Yeah. And, and that is exactly right on track. And the not identifying. I Mean the not being able to have your adult self there. That's exactly it. That's perfect.

[B]

That's exactly what it is.

[A]

And it's not forever. But that's why it's so painful, is because when it comes to this, you still are. Are so identified with your child self that it's hard. That separation is hard. And the more you go and visit, the more you'll realize, wait, if I'm visiting, I'm not him. And he is a part of me, but not all of me.

[B]

I can get that from if we're leaving, then I'm not him. But I don't get that from I'm visiting. I. I'm sucked back into the tornado.

[A]

That's right. Exactly. And that's exactly where. That's what trauma is, is forgetting that you are an adult living in 2024.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And not the child in the house. And it just takes literally, like carving a new.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Pathway in your brain.

[B]

I feel like I'm shoveling snow up.

[A]

You do that. And you're reminding me very much that there was a period of time where anytime you left town and I was staying alone, I, like, I would go into therapy and be like, I am small. I am not. I'm not allowed. I can't stay home alone. I'm scared. I'm gonna, I'm gonna. I can't be trusted in like trying to find the adult self to be like, no, it's okay. And I couldn't.

[B]

Which is why when I come home, I have a flare up, which is where I'm at right now of like control, grown up control stuff. Like, like I left the house the other day and the garage door wouldn't close. And if Beau goes in the garage, he'll chew up everything. And I must have called you five, six times. Your phone was hooked up to a speaker or something. But I was having an overreact, like a trauma response. Because I'm going like, no, I'm bad. Like, where things don't work, I'm like, I'm trying to get things to work. But it's not about things working. It's about proving to myself that I can take care of myself. I need that garage door closed because I'm trying to like, re. Bolster myself.

[A]

But I image that that is. It's like a child in a grown up suit. Like a big suit that doesn't fit him.

[B]

That's funny.

[A]

He's. He's trying to prove that he's an adult. Your actual adult self is the version of you when you're regulated, that comes out. And he knows that he can't control everything and that it's okay and that he will be okay.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But your child self, understandably, is like, you know, it's crazy. Like, that's like one of those, like pictures, like a sepia tone picture of like a little rascal. And like, you know, you're picturing it. The like brown giant suit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think that's a good. No, that's exact image for like, when you're feeling that way is like, it's funny.

[B]

Seinfeld in the movie Comedian likens. When your new hour isn't ready. He goes, I'm like my kid and my father. So suit. It's baggy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So there is this, like, there's a connection here. Becoming a standup and wanting to get on stage and like, prove that, like, it's like trying to prove I'm a grownup. I'm. I'm. I'm the one on stage.

[A]

I have the control.

[B]

I'm in. I'm in control and I'm going to make it like this. That's why I was going to say when my father. Which some people might hear this and I understand if they're like, it's so sweet that my dad came to my show in Boston. It's so hard for me to be a father, husband, comedian, whatever. That's my work and my family and my relationships. And also get even if it's just part of the tornado that sucks me into that, like, like, in the same way that I can't see my adult self in my childhood bedroom. It's hard for me to be the guy I need to be. So for people that don't remember, my dad came to the my show at in Boston without telling me, which I say this on stage. It would have been sweet if he bought a ticket and did it secretly. He didn't. They had to call backstage and ask me if I. If they could let him in. And now doing this work. I even have it now. It's like activating for me now. I have an incredibly intense fear response to that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And a sadness and an anger that's like, this is supposed to be. Because I can picture myself on stage in Boston as a grown up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then you put this. I'm not saying it's my dad's fault that that's how I perceive him. We could talk about that. That's another conversation. I don't think it was his intent. I'm not saying this out of fear. I'm trying to be balanced. It wasn't his intent to throw me off, but, man, that was hard. And it's hard. It's hard. The times that I've blown up at my parents are usually when I'm with Leela or with you. And by blown up, I mean, like, felt huge feelings or had to, like, whatever, because I'm being pulled in this direction and being pulled in this direction.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you literally can't be pulled in two directions. It's like being drawn and quartered by horses.

[A]

Yeah. You're in fight, flight, freeze, and you're fighting for this reality, which you did build. In spite of all of this, this whole time, being a traumatized person. Tp look at our life. You made this happen.

[B]

I know. And I can't always.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's the clarity. So when I'm reading the spiritual texts or I'm doing good trauma work or even having conversations like this, there is a veil lifting quality to it.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

I've mentioned on this podcast before that I've had moments. I love sauning, love a good sauna. I get in the sauna, and that regulates me something about the intensity. It kind of cooks out all the other feelings. And I'll get out and the sauna's in the garage, and I'll see the cars, and they're not fancy cars, but I'm just like, these are my cars. And I've talked about that before, and really what I'm saying is that's a moment where I'm going, I'm a grown up. I thought I still lived in that house.

[A]

Yeah, that's right. And that's why confusion is the. Like, the main feeling in the beginning of trauma work is you really are like, having. I don't know if you had this really when you changed. I. I guess another veil lifting maybe would. Would be your wife leaving you, but. Or, you know, I was gonna say when you chance rude veil lifting for her. Am I right? Just kidding.

[B]

I'm sure it was, actually.

[A]

But I was gonna say when you started deconstructing your faith or whatever. For me, that's the. The go to veil lifting experience. But trauma is the veil lifting. And. And it's trauma work, and you are con. You're split in two, exactly like you said. So it's very confusing.

[B]

It's integrating. You're trying to integrate these two things.

[A]

And it's very fragmenting because you have one foot in. In two different boats.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's why it feels worse. It really was like to use that boat metaphor. It really was. Like you were in the child boat most of the time. And now you've stood up on a wobbly boat. You've stepped into the adult self boat and you're trying to balance two wobbly boats without them drifting apart.

[B]

And oh my God.

[A]

Making you do this.

[B]

Exactly how I felt. Thank you.

[A]

And. And that is, that's why it feels worse before. It feels better. Because that's very wobbly ground.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And can feel really untethering.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But eventually you'll have both feet in that adult self boat and it will feel sturdy in a way that the child self boat could never have felt.

[B]

I know I'm in one of those times in my life where I feel a certain way and, and not to be hyper spiritual but this is so weird. But like the way that I feel I can see is not fully desirable. Meaning I know it's not the best way I can feel I'm cool with it. And that is me practicing non resistance. That's how I like to engage with it. I'm aware of a heaviness. I'm aware of a sadness. I'm aware of anger. I'm aware that my temper is a little bit shorter. I'm aware that my creativity. Not today, but most days not today are. Is a little bit stifled. All these things. And when you're in that way, in that state. What I find fresh and interesting every time anew is that you can't imagine that you won't feel that way.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

And intellectually there's a keeper of the candle. And it's like I know you will feel better.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And if I'm being honest. Now you're talking to the other side. I'm like not so sure about that chief. Like I'm like sure. And that's my protector too. He's going like you wanted to peek under the lid and look at the beans. Just so you know, I don't sign the Avengers Accord. Like I'm. I'm not. I think that's history. I'm not co signing on this. So when you're. When everything goes to just know that I was over here. I. I have some funnier stuff to say. Let's go to the mid rolls and then I'll tell some funny stories from the trip home that I think that I think are actually are funny. And I have a. A reading from again from John Astin that I did this morning and it was absolutely glorious. Either we'll Do a little bit of it. But I do want to tell some stories and have some laughs and hear what it was like for you.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. Just the last thing is like that Protector not signing the Avengers Accord. That's why it's such an important part of internal family systems. To make friends with the Protector first.

[B]

That's what we're doing.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

No, nobody's firing the Protector.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm saying I'm here to help.

[A]

Right. And I ask him things a little while.

[B]

Are you tired?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like he's real stressed. And the first story I'm gonna tell is an example of why this guy, this poor, he kind of looks like the Toxic Avenger. Like he's really been through it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

God love him. He's kind of a funny character, but also terrifying and big and loud and all these things. Yeah, but there's a comedy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To trying to be a protector against just the types of personalities my family was.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. Was. Was.

[B]

All right, we'll be right. Oh, we're doing the mid rolls at 50.

[A]

Cool, cool, cool.

[B]

We'll be right back. I just wash my hair with shampoo and I just wash my hair with modern mammals. Which is why it doesn't look like a bale of hay you just took out of the microwave.

[A]

Hey.

[B]

Exactly. Modern mammals washes your hair, but it leaves the natural oils you need for it to look perfect and in control. Wait, but it's not a shampoo. It's like a shampoo, but it's like a non shampoo shampoo. But it cleans your hair like shampoo, but not shampoo because it won't dry it out like a shampoo. A non shampoo shampoo that'll clean your hair like shampoo but won't dry it out like shampoo shampoo. I think that's good. That's like our new slogan. Thank you. It's probably too many words. Modern mammals a non shampoo shampoo that'll clean your hair like shampoo but won't dry it out like shampoo shampoo. That really scared me. I have a lot of power here. I can see that. Can you make me taller? I'm here for hair stuff only. Okay. Yeah, sorry. Healthy hydration isn't just about drinking water, weirdos. It's about drinking water plus electrolytes. And if you're a kid from the 90s like me, that usually meant drinking like a flat red soda that had a of lot little electrolyte in there somewhere. But it was really just like 360 calories. From pure cane sugar. Horribleness. So element LMNT is different. It's pure electrolytes, it's pure water, it's zero sugar, it's zero caffeine, and there's no dodgy stuff. And it tastes amazing. And it absolutely floods your system with everything that you're sweating out and losing during the day through your activity. Basically, you don't want to be dehydrated, you don't want to have headaches, you don't have low energy, you don't want to have cramps, confusion. I drink Element in the morning every day, and I feel like it jump starts my day, flooding me with potassium, magnesium, and sodium and water, getting my brain going, getting my body going. I heard a friend of mine who had element at her house describe it to her friend as better than a cup of coffee. And I absolutely agree with that. If you drink it after you've been exerting yourself or like me, just in the morning, it makes me feel amazing. It's become a huge part of my wellness program that I look forward to every morning. I love the watermelon salt flavor. I also like the mango chili flavor. I didn't know I wanted a spicy electrolyte drink, but I do. And they actually have something new on drink element lmnt.com which is the sparkling, which it comes in cans, which is amazing. And they have a black cherry lime flavor, which is off the hook. Amazing, Delicious. Incredible. So get hydration into your life, feel better, and get what you're missing back into you. So many people are low. I think it's like 76% of Americans are deficient in magnesium. This is a great and delicious way to get magnesium into you, as well as that potassium as well as that sodium to optimize your health and your brain and to feel amazing and to love the taste while you're doing it. So go to drinklmnt.com weird do yourself a favor, get a case of their sparkling. I absolutely love it. We're putting it out for the guests on the podcast now, and if you use drinklmnt.com weird you will get a free Element sample pack with any order when you order. So you can try all of the flavors, which is super fun. If Element doesn't exceed your expectations, I have a no questions asked refund policy. You don't even have to send it back. So support your body, support the show. Go to drinklmnt.com weird get your free sample pack with any purchase. That's drinklmnt.com weird. All right, back to the show. And we're back for a genderless burger Experience.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

I got a sticker that says a genderless burger experience. Because if, you know, with the Nirvana. Nirvana, the band, the show. And we also watched Operation Avalanche, which is Matt Johnson's Sundance movie, which is a comedy about faking the moon landing, but it's also a thriller. Like, it's also, like, legitimately incredible.

[A]

It's so good.

[B]

You know when you hear about, like, you watch a movie and you're like, how the fuck did I never hear about that?

[A]

I know.

[B]

I think if this is a hot take. I think if Matt Johnson wasn't Canadian.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Like, there's got to be something like that. Like. Well, I think that if he was like. I don't know. I mean, I'm saying that with respect. I'm saying the work is so good. Is it the border that we can't get over?

[A]

Well, I know that's like, one of his, you know, causes is, like, to.

[B]

Try and keep things in Toronto.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You got to keep things in Toronto. Yeah. Sorry.

[A]

And. And, like, making, like, a national. More of a national. Sort of.

[B]

By the way, sounds like I'm teasing. I'm obsessed. I'm even obsessed. We're going through a real Matt Johnson obsession right now.

[A]

We are.

[B]

And one of the things I'm obsessed with is his principles. And by the way, we're not alone. He's, like, a very bingeable guy. What's that?

[A]

Yeah, go ahead. Sorry.

[B]

Oh, sorry. Is that a that thing you do reference?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. No, I'm enjoying it.

[A]

Okay. I'm sorry. I was bad when I interrupted you to say it, and then when you said what? And then started talking again. It was me interrupting you a second time to say this. Barely.

[B]

I've been loving it.

[A]

Interesting thing.

[B]

Every time.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

But the more we're like Jay and Matt on that show, the happier I am. And that was a very Nirvana to be in the show moment alone in my, like.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I will say I'm more annoying than. Than Matt's character is. Like, I do it more. Do you think? Yeah, no, say.

[A]

I think same high compliment. Yeah.

[B]

Anyway, I'm obsessed. And. Whoa. The movie Operation Avalanche is. I mean, they did, like, a. Like a. A mockumentary.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

With like, eight millimeter cameras.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That alone is just so. It's. It's a period piece, and it's. I can't say.

[A]

Enough set pieces.

[B]

That's what I was gonna say. Let's say if you're Even a little bit interested in how they might fake the food landing, the moon landing that's in there. Like, it would be like. It would have been like this. And you see it and you're like, holy shit, that would have worked. And it's not a conspiracy movie per se, but it's an exploration of what if that is what happened. But it's also really funny. But also, like, there's, like, Spielberg level. Remember when the wife comes home? No other. I'm, like, covering my face. Like, I know a gas.

[A]

I know, like, shot good.

[B]

Like real human emotion. And the silliest boy I know being the funniest.

[A]

I know. It's so good.

[B]

I don't understand you. You guys have to watch Operation Avalanche.

[A]

We.

[B]

We in no way profit from this.

[A]

It does feel like. It does feel like we've both had this experience where we're, like, in love with Matt Johnson and. And with Jay McCarroll. And, like, then we're just finding, like, everybody. People already knew about this. We were like. Not that we, like, discovered it, but we were just like, what we have to tell the world.

[B]

I don't know a lot of comedians that most times I brought it up on the pot a lot. No one's ever been like, oh, yeah, totally.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Like Mikey Day just did. I was like, do you know Nirvana, Bancho? They don't. People don't tend to know.

[A]

Okay, well, then I do feel really cool.

[B]

So it is still cool.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I also. I haven't, like. Remember I was saying the feeling of middle age is the feeling of wanting to be interested. I love that. I'm, like, super interested in, like, what Matt Johnson is making. And I think there's something very culty about him. Because whenever we think we found something that is uniquely funny to us, that's.

[A]

What I was saying.

[B]

We Google it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And there's a T shirt.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That says, like, the weird. There's a line. There's no spoiler here. They get addicted to coffee. They love coffee. And at one point, Matt just goes, hey, Jay, pot of black. And we thought it was so funny to say a pot of black.

[A]

We've been saying it.

[B]

You type pot of black into Google.

[A]

There'S already a T shirt.

[B]

People are, like, obsessed. But they also say a thousand other ways to say coffee.

[A]

Like, I know.

[B]

That's the joke.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Why pot of black?

[A]

It just hit us all in the.

[B]

Exact funny bone and a genderless burger experience. I can't see it without think or Everybody needs a bosom for a Pillow. Anyway, we've said it enough. Watch Operation Avalanche and watch on YouTube. You can watch quite a bit of Nirvana to be in the show. And I wish there was a way you could buy it because I would plug that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But anyway, you can watch stuff. Parts of it on YouTube. Any. Whozel Woozle. This is the story that made me think that my protector made me, like, sympathize and relate to my protector, which is the part of my psyche that was trying to keep me safe. For those of you that have been confused for the past six months of these podcasts, there isn't actually a protector. He looks like the video. There was a video game. I think it was called Blitz. There's a. There was like a kind of like an NBA Jam style football game. It's called like. I think it was called Blitz. Anyway.

[A]

Yeah, that sounds familiar.

[B]

I really only spent one day hanging out at my mom's house without you guys, which will always be one of the great badges of honor. Is that like on. Let's say it was Friday. I'll get up, I'll go to coffee with my dad. I'm very proud of that because, like, that is a parenting hack. Do what they like to do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And luckily.

[A]

Which, by the way, is so up.

[B]

Well, there's actually something beautiful coming.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

In that spirit, that I'm really happy I get to shine a light on what an amazing parent you are. Because I am still kind of going into these fight, flight, freeze, fawn modes. And it's like, yeah, going to Dunkin Donuts is the best. But I actually do enjoy it. I like coffee. I like hanging with my dad and seeing him with people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it is a hoot. It's like a real slice of life. And watching the guys talk about politics and stuff, I feel. I feel like a little kid in the good way. I'm sitting at a table with my dad and watching them talk.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I did that. You did not come. I'm getting up our bodies. Time. 4am yeah. To go to this. I go. And then I go to my mom's house. And they only asked once. And this kind of speaks to the like, do you want things or do you want us to want things? Like, do you want to hang out with us or do you want us to want to hang out with us? Of classic kind of parent co on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they said, where's Val and Lila? They go, are they sleeping? My parents do that a lot. They'll answer the question, are Val and Lila sleeping? And I Go. Yeah, they're sleeping. Just take it. That's another survival technique. Take it. Yeah, yeah, they're sleeping. You weren't. You were going to the children's museum. Him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But. Which brings me to the compliment. Leela, at one point, very understandably, didn't want to go to another restaurant because, as I've said a million times, hang. To hang out with my parents is to plan dinner while eating lunch.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's what we're doing.

[A]

Restaurant meals.

[B]

It's endless restaurants.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I know maybe that sounds nice if you like restaurants. I like restaurants. It's not too many restaurants. Yeah. It's breakfast restaurant, lunch restaurant, dinner restaurant. And each one is just talking about the next restaurant. It's fucking horrible. And there's only, like, 10 approved neural groove. These are the restaurants we go to.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So anyway, Lila was like, I don't want to go to another restaurant. And you were like, you're right. Let's go to a park or something. And you said to her, because in this family, the parents bend towards the children, not the other way around. And that was very emotional for me to have you say that, because I was like, our daughter was crying.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I can't say this. And it's in all caps, understandably, that the feeling of her was, why do you keep putting me in another restaurant for these, like. I think she can sense sort of like, tense, a little bit off. Left of center meals.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And you were like, you're right. And then the next day, we were like, you're not coming to lunch? I thought we'd go to lunch. You're gonna go to the Boston's Children Great Kids Museum.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm gonna go.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

One question. Yeah. They're sleeping. We're in the clear. I was, like, the proudest of myself I had been that day. I was like, I've done it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I've taken. You know, I'm doing this for the family.

[A]

Well, it was our effort, both our. It took both of them our parts to protect her.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And. And it. Our little moment to be like, I know we are agreeing to enter your world. You're being your parents, and we're bringing our child into it. But we are going to make a distinction that this is not.

[B]

This is hot fudge. You're saying right now. What you're saying is hot fudge.

[A]

End of these patterns.

[B]

And we have agency.

[A]

And we have agency. And just because we're here doesn't mean we're gonna be like this.

[B]

This is literally. I just Exhaled. Delicious. Like, if I was a smoker, like, smoke. Like, I'm just, like, so happy with what you're saying. It's light. It's the opposite of how I was feeling. Talking about some of the stuff in the first half.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The feeling of like, we're here, but Val and Lila are going to the children's Museum. I'm still not in a place. We were only there two days, basically. Basically, yeah. I wasn't gonna not spend some time, but we don't have to subject. Subject you guys to that. So I'm gonna go. This is the story that I thought I wrote this down because I'm planning, like, a little show that would have characters based on my parents and inspired by my parents. And then my mom was like, jay, where's my coffee? Like, she wants her coffee from Dunkin Donuts, of course. And I see it. It's in the kitchen, and I'm sitting there next to her and fucking cat scratching posts and all sorts of ointments and stuff. And I see it and I go, I can do this. I was happy. This is what makes all this fucking child self stuff so horrible and difficult. Is there these moments of hope where you go, like, this is appropriate. There are things I won't do. I won't buy champagne for all your friends. Even though she asked me seven times, I literally said to her, I go, mom, you just want me to buy it so you can brag to your friends that I bought champagne for you. You don't actually want it. The restaurant will have champagne. There will be champagne.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's not a compelling reason for me. I hate it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like what I was really saying in that moment is you don't actually want that. You just want to get me to do something, and maybe that's valid, but it's not okay for me for some reason. It doesn't. It's not in my.

[A]

Well, she's. She's done it in a thousand inappropriate ways.

[B]

That's kind of what her life. That's what I'm trying to say is a lot of these things. And what I'm learning about trauma is if you saw it as an isolated thing, she's saying, would you please buy champagne for all my friends?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You go, what's so bad about that?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You need every bit of context and you don't have it, so you just fucking shut. I'm talking to nobody. But, yeah, like, just take my word for it. Something's going on here in the feeling realm. And I can't explain it, but I have this response. That's trauma slogan.

[A]

That's right. And you don't have to defend it to anyone. Yeah, it's real. Because it's real to you. It's happening to you.

[B]

All of this. Thank you. All of that stuff is so valuable.

[A]

And she. She does see it as an isolated incident.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So she is feeling like, I'm just asking you to buy champagne. And in fact, she's not really seeing it as an. No, I'm not sure about. She's seeing it through the lens of her trauma, which is, can somebody be always taking care of me, please, otherwise I'm going to die.

[B]

And I'm not saying this to be a good boy. I can see that and I can have compassion for that.

[A]

And.

[B]

But, yes, but I also. There's two programs running at the same time, and one of them is prioritized. And that the prioritized program is me not feeling like I'm being drowned in.

[A]

Hot water a hundred percent. It should be the prioritized. It's the actual. The only program that you can have any say over or change in any way.

[B]

Well, that's one of the beliefs. It's funny that you say that because one of the beliefs of my child self is like, it's up to me. That's. That's.

[A]

It's up to you.

[B]

Like for her to fix this, to save this, to save them. If this works, it's because of something I did.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And if it's not working, it's because of something I didn't do.

[A]

That's right. That is probably.

[B]

This is why I tell you in therapy I always go, the horror. I'm always just saying the horror.

[A]

That's right. And I have seen you as your partner and I've understood this because Lord knows you've seen this. The, you know, my version of this, like, me tell you, like, it. It's sad that she's miserable. It is not your job to fix it. You couldn't even if you tried. And I can feel you.

[B]

I'm starting to believe it.

[A]

Believe me, before.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm starting to believe it.

[A]

Yes, exactly.

[B]

And my brother's been really helpful in that regard as well.

[A]

Yeah. But that's why, like. So your mom, it's. It's actually kind of remarkable that your mom isn't a scary person to me. I think it's really hard to be with them, but like.

[B]

But I'm not frightened.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, she's like, critical. And she. You. You. She is one of those people that you're a little bit like, are you about to say something that's gonna hurt my feelings? Yeah, but, like, I do. It doesn't. To me. And even, like, you know, so she. As soon as I got there, she gave me the job of, like, writing, making place cards for the head table, which she loved. And I am. It's no problem for me to do that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And, like. And then even when we get to the party, she's sitting there with a martini, like, quietly telling me where everybody should go in this frantic move while people are coming in and saying, like, where should I. And I'm leaning in, and she's. She's saying, I don't. Like, next to her best friend. Like, sitting next to her best friend, saying, don't sit her near me. She'll pull focus.

[B]

Yeah. And then again, that's sort of what's funny about my mom. I can see that.

[A]

And I. So I'm just, you know, holding all of these things and trying to get it done. And to me, that's, like. I would say maybe a 2 out of 10 stressful. Just because I'm trying to get it done. There's no. There's no wounding. Like, no wound that. That's touching because I didn't have that type of mother.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's not a wound for me. My mom actually had that type of mother. And so she. She swung the whole other way, which.

[B]

Is where you get all the hyper vigilance and the.

[A]

Exactly. So other things would definitely be wounding to me. But when your mom. Even if your mom criticizes me in some way, which she doesn't do that often, I. I just am, like. I don't know. Like, my. My mom seems to think that I'm perfect.

[B]

That's good. You have a different program, right?

[A]

I have a different. Yeah, it just doesn't get in. So that's. What I mean is all of these are your specific buttons because she created them so she has the access to them. Yeah, but that's why you do this work, is that it slowly starts to become desensitized to where you're just like, all right, you. I'm gonna sit Sandy wherever I want.

[B]

To, and I'm gonna. And Val and Lila are gonna go to the children's museum.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

These little. Little victories.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It really is like, a long battle.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

A lot of battle. A lot of. And I don't mean fights. I just mean these inner things. So anyway, I go to get the coffee. And I'm excited. That child Hope that's really key is your. I remember feeling like this is great. My mom loves people to do things for her.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I can do this. There's a coffee. I'll go get it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Pick it up. I noticed that my dad. And carrying it in. I don't know why. Maybe the drive it. There's coffee all over the lid. It's like spilled. So I get a paper towel. And really lovingly. I'm like overly like a. Like a chef preparing a plate. I'm like wiping down the coffee.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And really getting it proper. Because I don't want her to be like, it's health spilled. Which would have been semi reasonable because it would have got on her. So I clean it off and really kind of I'm milking the story. But I'm like looking forward to, like, I'm going to give it to. It's going to be all clean.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I hand it to. I go up to her and she's in the chair and she's texting on her phone. I hand her the coffee and she looks at me with kind of like a death look. And she's like, what am I supposed to do with that? And I go, it's your coffee. She goes, what am I supposed to do with that? And I'm standing there with the coffee. It's so sad. No, no, no. I want to laugh. And I'm like, this is what the trauma work is. Is I'm recognizing. Wow. So sad. Holding the coffee out. I thought you wanted your coffee. And she goes, my hands are full. And when I told you the story, I gestured one free hand like she had a free hand. She was texting with one hand. She had a free hand.

[A]

It wasn't even true.

[B]

It wasn't true.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That is what my protector is going. There's no way into this territory.

[A]

No.

[B]

Where we'll be. Where we'll. Where the soldiers will be safe.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

We're trying to send in love soldiers. It doesn't matter. There's gonna be casualties. You want to give her a coffee? I'm sorry. The mission is hand her a coffee.

[A]

She just asked for.

[B]

He's my protector. Is in the war room screaming. You really think it's gonna be that simple?

[A]

Right?

[B]

You're just gonna walk in there. Oh, it's just a smash and grab. Bring her what she asked for.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Good fucking luck.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he's looking out the window.

[A]

Well, this is.

[B]

There's no windows in the situation room, but you know what I mean.

[A]

This is the pain pattern.

[B]

Fiskers don't make sound when they start up. Just so you know. It's a Gambino reference.

[A]

This is the pain pattern which has been established probably for as long as you can remember.

[B]

Taylor's oldest time.

[A]

Your mom asks something of your dad, you notice he's not doing it. You want her to be happy, you do it in his place. Plus some extra love and care. She. She chastises you.

[B]

Probably still mad about my dad ignoring her or whatever it is. Who knows? By the way, it's not my place to guess.

[A]

No, I'm gonna guess. I think she's mad that your dad isn't the one who does it. And even further back, she's mad that her father wasn't the one that did it or something.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like no one is filling that hole.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And no one ever could. And that's what the. The pain pattern.

[B]

What do you want me to do with that? And in that, there's another compassionate way to look at this. She's asking me, can you hold some of my pain here, I'll give it to you.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And the problem is, no, I can't. No. Because I'm your son and I actually need something very different from you. And this is why the. The dream and the fantasy is I'm like one friend. And she does have some friends. But like good, fertile, regular relationships where you can let this stuff out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I have friends. Joe derose is my friend. I call and we yell and fucking get them all worked up and say things we don't mean. I don't mean to each other, but we rant. Yeah, it's great, it's healthy, it's good. So I get it. But it's just not. It's like a video game. It's like that kind of character can't open that kind of door. You have to be Luigi.

[A]

You're going to be a little loser.

[B]

You gotta be a wager to get in there.

[A]

Yeah. Your mother is so enveloped by her child self. Like she is her child self and has been identified as that for so long.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And a child can't take care of another child. They can only do things to make sure that they are being taken care of. That will be their priority 100 of the time. So. So even your instinct to be like, I don't want this to reach Leela. Like I don't want her to feel the same way about me. That's an adult self protective, clear perspective that's your adult self.

[B]

That I can do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like it's not a move from the protector. No disrespect. Protector. Yeah, it's grown up Pete going like, I'll keep Leela away from this for some of the time and that'll be good.

[A]

Yeah, that's right.

[B]

And then it's funny even as we're talking here and all of this being able to access this compassion and hopefully some understanding and be even keeled about it again. Maybe this is the most obvious thing in the world, but another thing with trauma is that I'm like, why? We were talking to our friend about this, where I was like, there's the response. Because what happened was, what I said was, how can you be mad at me for getting you a coffee? Yeah, that's what I said. I never used to say things like that, but I. I find this need to like defend myself.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Like how, how is it you're mad at me? I brought you a coffee. Yeah, but boy, then you feel guilt. You immediately feel guilt. Why couldn't I have been more resourced? Why couldn't I been more patient? I'm okay now. But that's just part of it is, is you get this flare up. The next thing that happened though, that I thought was pretty funny was my mom is like, I think she might have been like, will you give me a break? I'm nervous about the party. So that was really nice.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There was some self awareness and some repair and effort. I see a lot of love and effort. Okay, A lot more love and effort. Always love. But I'm seeing more effort.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And then she goes, look at that. Look at that. Clover. No, she goes, not clover. She goes, something else. Look at that. Blah, blah, blah. Dandelions. Let's say that's a weed. It doesn't matter. It was another kind of flower. She goes, look at those blahs. And I go, oh. And I look out the window because she just gestured for me to look out the window. I look out the window, last year it was all clover. And I go, oh, that must have been nice. And she's like, why do you say that? And I'm like, I don't know, I thought maybe you would prefer clover. She's like, no. And then she pauses and I'm still looking at the fucking whatever the fuck. And she goes, hello. And I look at her and she goes, I just paused mid sentence. And you didn't say, go on. This was the next.

[A]

Moment after the coffee.

[B]

It was coffee. I'm sorry. Look at that clover. She pauses and says, I just paused mid sentence. And you didn't say hello, like, go on. And at that point I was just like, all right, I'll just, I'll just respond anytime you pause. And we just had a nice little dust up and it sucked. And then we moved on. This is the relationship. And I don't, I don't like it. We're both. Yeah, we're both. We're both trying for something more. But like, like, it's a really weird feeling to think that your healing is, like, really inconvenient to your parent.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

That they're like, I would prefer you not.

[A]

Yeah, but just don't be that type of parent then. And understandably, like, people are only as conscious as they can be and all of that. But that's not really.

[B]

Hello.

[A]

Where we're gonna put all of our, our empathy chips. We're putting it into the child in the relationship.

[B]

Well, that's what made what you said. In this, in this family, we bend towards the child, not the other way around. I was like, that's what I'm trying to do is I'm now retroactively trying to bend and not explain or strategize or cope with my inner child. Just let him talk and say, what was that like? And then respond and witness it.

[A]

That's exactly the best thing you can do for Leila. Because the reason why, what happens is this pattern of the child is expected to bend towards the parent. And so then the child who has way more needs is way more fragile, whose survival depends on the parent, never gets their needs met. So then they grow up and then they look to their child to meet their needs again. A person who just got here, who doesn't know anything about reality except for, I guess I'm supposed to bend and contort and take care of this adult. And then they grow up and their needs have never been met. So what you're doing is so powerful because your needs weren't met as a child. And you are still. You are not going to put that on to Leela to meet your needs. You are stopping it right here and saying, okay, I can meet my own needs. I can go in, give my child self everything he needs so that I will not look externally on and put that burden on anyone else, especially not a child of all people. So it's just really good and important and hard work and I'm really proud of you.

[B]

I think that's really funny. Every episode ends last trauma thought. But just for the People out there that this is resonating. I will say it's an inexhaustible need to have my experience validated and recognize is right on track. Or that's classic. Or this. I just want to say, when you were, like, your needs weren't met as a child, I'm like, don't say that. Like, I get, like, this, like, fear. Like, yes, they were. Because. Because I have. You know, and there's some truth to, like, these needs were met. But, like, that's not what we're talking about.

[A]

No, we're not talking.

[B]

We're not talking about that. But, like, there's such a hesitancy.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

This is, like, I won't mention who, but somebody in one of our families was like, I'd go to therapy, but I don't want to open that can of worms.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And this is what they're talking about. It's so fraught. And as we've said a million times, there's a reason why this is likened to the hero's journey. And I'm. I feel wonderful right now. I'm just trying to offer solidarity and familiarity, you know, something to relate to. It's like being in the woods, and I meet Val in the tavern, and there's. You know, we have mushrooms, and we eat that. We're in, like, a handkerchief that you. I found these mushrooms, and we eat them by the fire. So there's. There's help.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's really helpful to remember all the people. My friend Ken Bishop, who comes up on the pot, he texts me, I think it's the weekend you're going to your parents, and it meant a lot. He was like, I'm praying for you. We went to church together. And he's like, I'm praying for you. Matt McCarthy texted me, and he was like, I love you, and we're in this together.

[A]

I mean, like, well, that's the. That's the gift your adult self gave to your child self, was reaching out, assembling a team to prove to your child self. Like, hey, you have everything you need now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You. You have a team of people who will love and support you. I think I've shared this before on the podcast, but the image I will use is like, I'm going into the cave, but there's a series of ropes tied around my waist, and I have my people standing outside of the cave with their hands on the rope, and I can tug on that rope when I'm in the darkness, and I'm feeling so enveloped that I don't even know that I exist. I am using that word a lot. And, like, I'll just remember to tug on the rope and they'll tug back, and I'll remember that I'm not alone.

[B]

Which is the boon in the hero's journey. They're like, take this ring, and when you need it, you'll know.

[A]

Yeah, that's right.

[B]

It's the friends and the family and the support.

[A]

Yeah. You got everything you need.

[B]

It's wonderful.

[A]

It's wonderful. Wonderful stuff.

[B]

Beautiful stuff. Trauma work. Gotta do it. Not comfortable. But my dad. My dad made me. My dad made me this way. Made me this way. It's a new guy. And again, we haven't seen the debates.

[A]

And trump is what happens when you don't deal with this stuff. So this is what happens. This is really important work.

[B]

Put it down, Put it. Push it down. Put a building up. That's what I say. Feelings down. Buildings up. That's what I say. Casino.

[A]

Can think of another building.

[B]

I could heal or build a casino. I chose casino.

[A]

And you really see how like that. It's funny when there's, like, toxic, masculine men who think what they're doing is brave.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you're like, you're just doing any form of running.

[B]

You don't have the balls to open a casino. I've never been more proud to not own a casino than I am in this moment.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Because the foundation I'm digging is in my very soul.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And the jackpot are the tears. Jackpot is the tears. The therapist is the dealer. Do you hit on 20? No, you don't. Unless you're counting cards. A count them. Could I ask you to leave?

[A]

He's like, somehow reasonable about it. I will have to ask you to leave.

[B]

We will ask you to leave. You can keep your winnings. I always think that's funny. When you're count caught counting cards, they.

[A]

Get to keep their winning.

[B]

Well, now they do six decks, I believe. So when you play blackjack in a casino now they use six decks, which means no one can count cards on six decks.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

This is the sort of that gets me rock hard. So one deck, you can keep track of. Of like, when the likelihood of the next card being sure.

[A]

What about two decks?

[B]

Maybe two. I think some people could probably do two. Some people could do five, not six. Can't do six. But what I think is funny is when they catch you counting cards because it is something. It's like counting cards is cheating in the Same way that studying is cheating on your test.

[A]

I know.

[B]

It's like, in your brain.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You're very good at this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So they can't take your winnings, but they can ask you to leave.

[A]

I see. Okay.

[B]

Which I. I just think there's something. I'm fascinated with those moments, like that break that somehow. Break the simulation.

[A]

Oh, that's.

[B]

Yeah, you're cheating, but also. Okay, you can keep the 50 grand you won, but also don't do that here anymore.

[A]

Yeah. And it's not. It's not even. Yeah, it's like you're not cheating, but you're not. Not playing it the way that we.

[B]

You're not losing the way you want. We want. We actually. We actually want you to lose. That's how we pay for everything. It's your losses. The buffet eat your losses. That's what it is. Well, this is. Look, who knows how the debate is gonna go, so. Or when.

[A]

Just. It's so interesting.

[B]

Nice to get this impression out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In case it's so horrible that we don't do it anymore. No chance.

[A]

I mean, how much? It's just more of the same terribleness.

[B]

Yeah, I know.

[A]

All right, cool. Guys. Hey, it's summer. Jump into a pool, Have a popsicle.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I will be making red lentils.

[B]

Yeah, you're sick. Soup.

[A]

And sipping on tea.

[B]

Sipping on tea and soup.

[A]

But you guys go ahead. Get in the sun and keep it crispy.