Podcast Summary: "We Made It Weird #198 – Mirabai Starr and Ordinary Mysticism"

Podcast: You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes
Episode: We Made It Weird #198: Mirabai Starr and Ordinary Mysticism
Date: November 15, 2024
Host: Pete Holmes
Guests: Valerie Chaney (co-host, Pete’s wife) & Mirabai Starr (author, mystic)

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode explores the concept of "ordinary mysticism" through a rich, heartfelt, and humorous conversation between Pete, Val, and their friend Mirabai Starr—author of Ordinary Mysticism. They discuss the sacredness of everyday life, the paradoxes of spiritual seeking, doubts and vulnerability, and what it truly means to have direct spiritual experiences. Pete and Val ground the discussion in their own quirks and lived experiences, while Mirabai shares personal anecdotes and wisdom from her work translating and writing about mystics.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Warm-Up & Setting the Scene

00:00–18:36

• Pete and Val set a playful, self-aware tone, riffing on topics like phone voicemail messages, the image of "dogs playing poker," Ben Affleck’s The Accountant, and quirky observations about social situations and neurodiversity.
• "This is the Friday episode, and it's where we hurt one another." – Pete (01:57)
• They describe the episode as a bit different and “nacho bar”—meaning, a little out of the ordinary compared to their usual format.
• Introduction of Mirabai: She’s described as a “mystic who writes about mystics” with a new book, Ordinary Mysticism, praised for its down-to-earth, compassionate approach to spirituality.
• “If you're going to read one spiritual (book) this year, it's Ordinary Mysticism.” – Val (13:58)

Naming the Weirdness & Vulnerability

18:37–24:47

• Pete, Val, and Mirabai discuss their need to “name the weirdness” when things feel irregular or out-of-the-norm.
• “I’ll do most anything. But I have to talk about it...I have to clear the air and go, like, our daughter is being babysat...there’s a sort of, like, irregularity to it that only needs to be addressed. And then all of that will kind of dissolve away. But I have to mention it. I have to be like, this is weird, right?” – Pete (19:49)
• Mirabai agrees: “It is true...I feel so seen.” (20:41)
• Naming things is a way to refuse being “gaslit” or excluded from shared reality.

Spiritual Power, Ego, and Doubt

24:48–26:30

• Pete asks about the relationship between spirituality and ego/power trips (e.g., toxic church leadership or cult leaders).
• Mirabai: “I can’t even relate to it. I’m way too insecure to feel like I could be in charge of anybody else’s spiritual life.” (24:47)
• Discussion about the importance of letting saints and spiritual leaders be “imperfect”—referencing Mirabai's "let your saints fuck up" chapter.

Demystifying Mysticism & Reading from Ordinary Mysticism

26:31–29:06

• Mirabai reads from her book’s introduction on "demystifying mysticism".
• “Welcome to the temple of your regular life. The garden of your days, the harbor where you catch your breath, the theater of your relationships...Your life is holy ground. And you are a mystic.” – Mirabai (reading, 26:56)
• “A mystical experience may or may not be connected to established spiritual traditions...Mysticism is not about concepts. It's about communion with ultimate reality...and it blooms at the heart of regular life.” – Mirabai (28:38)
• Emphasis that everyone can be a mystic—no need for exotic rituals, just presence in daily life.

Seeking, Spiritual Practice, and the Fruit of Experience

29:07–36:56

• Pete, referencing Rupert Spira and other teachers, unpacks the tendency to chase spiritual "prizes," and mysticism as an always-present reality.
• Mirabai: “If I can't harness the love here and now and ride that through this lifetime, I'm not interested...But it took me a long time before I felt the confidence to challenge that paradigm." (31:04)
• Discussion of spiritual traditions’ focus on ultimate rewards—salvation, enlightenment, etc.—and Mirabai’s challenge to that model.
• Teresa of Ávila and self-verifying mystical experience: “Did the experience expand my heart with more love for God? If it did, it was real.” – Mirabai (35:55)
• Pete shares Rupert Spira's test for solipsism: “Try it. Live like you're the only person. It's a bummer. It sucks.” (35:57)

The Paradox of Seeking & The Remembering/Forgetting Dance

36:57–44:20

• The paradox: "The ultimate truth can't be sought after, but only seekers find it.” (37:01)
• Mysticism is accessible by showing up to life consciously—with an open heart.
• Val: “Everything in nature is the clue that that's correct. It's tides going in and out. It's seasons changing. It's our own breath moving in and out. Like that is the permission...” (39:02)
• Grief, trauma, and healing as portals to love; forgetting and remembering as inherent to the mystical path.
• Pete: “The forgetting and the remembering isn't a mistake. It's the sheet music...the wave and the rest.” (38:45)
• Mirabai connects this “dance” to Sufi practice (the practice of remembrance, dhikr).

Service, Losing Self, and the Devotional Path

44:21–54:03

• Service as spiritual practice—valued for the way it makes you forget the self.
• Recent experience at a men’s prison: “I forgot all about my individual neurotic issues for those blessed eight hours. It was a flow state...the best part was it wasn't about me.” – Mirabai (46:32)
• Teresa of Ávila’s “interior castle” and the idea that union with the divine leads to returning to the world in service.
• Val asks about the path of the “feminine mystic” and relationship as a devotional means to non-duality.
• Mirabai: “When we love and call out for the presence that you may not believe in, in with your mind...the devotion itself waters my heart enough...that (I) get out of the mud of the lotus’s roots and into that opening to the vast sky of love.” (53:04)

Doubt, Jewish Upbringing, and Redefining God

54:04–66:56

• Mirabai on doubt: “At least half the time I don't believe in God. True confessions.” (52:38 & 63:14)
• Value of questioning in her Jewish upbringing; suspicion of belief systems and focus on service/social justice.
• “The only God I can really hang my hat on is a God that I keep shaking out of the box and letting be beyond my small ability to name it or describe it...” (64:11)
• Rejecting the idea of a transactional, punitive deity: “We reject the idea that God is keeping very accurate records of every lustful thought but refuses to intervene with genocide.” – Pete (66:20)

Non-Duality, Oneness, and the Sacred

66:57–71:35

• Pete discusses Rupert Spira’s teaching: The real blasphemy is to insist on separation from God, not to claim oneness.
  • "It's not blasphemous to say that your nature...is ultimate awareness. What's blasphemy is to say that you stand apart from God." – Pete (69:50)
• Mirabai: “Not only that everything is holy, everything is an access point...but you, each one of us, is a living meeting place for the rendezvous with the beloved.” (70:02)
• Everyday activities (walking, cooking, playing with children) are named as mystical access points.

The Sacred in Everyday Moments

71:36–80:52

• Pete movingly shares a mystical moment with his daughter: “...there are just these flashes of recognition on her face. And we share it, you know, that, like, divine. She's forgetting that she's my kid, and I'm forgetting that I'm her dad. And we look at each other in the middle of a game, and there's just a flash. And that's the right word for it. It's very brief...but just for a second...that's spiritual, too.” (72:35)
• "Naming it…I think that's what makes it mystical. It's not just seeing a beautiful sunset and enjoying it, but naming it, like you just did playing with your daughter..." – Mirabai (72:58)
• Discussion of intentionality and presence—participation in the sacred.
• The practice of showing up as a minimal requirement and that the divine can “be found in everything, even the temples,” echoing the idea of “transcend and include” (Richard Rohr).

Accessible Mysticism: “The Good News”

76:15–77:19

• Val: “This book really is the good news...it’s available to anyone. You're already doing it. You have everything you need...it's probably already in the things that you love doing.” (76:20)
• Mirabai: “...this is just my...language...but this is the way I'm describing what I'm hearing all around me. I just feel like a spokesperson...of the wisdom of the collective that's rising right now that needs to say, yes, everything is sacred and everyone belongs.” (78:14)
• Pete: “The things you really enjoy that really make you feel...those are probably deeply spiritual.” (77:19)

Closing & Notable Quotes

• “Keep it crispy.” – Mirabai, taking over the show’s classic sign-off (80:38)
• Heartfelt gratitude, mutual appreciation, and the invitation to check out Mirabai’s book and upcoming events.

Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• “Welcome to the temple of your regular life…Your life is holy ground. And you are a mystic.” — Mirabai (26:56)
• “All it means to be a mystic is to have a direct experience of the sacred. You have had zillions of those. You may be having one right now.” — Mirabai (27:14)
• “If I can't harness the love here and now and ride that through this lifetime, I'm not interested.” — Mirabai (31:04)
• “Did the experience expand my heart with more love for God? If it did, it was real.” — Mirabai, quoting Teresa of Ávila (35:55)
• “The forgetting and the remembering isn't a mistake. It's the sheet music... the wave and the rest.” — Pete (38:45)
• “You need that almost to get into the doorway of sex. And the ultimate goal of sex is to merge back into one thing again.” — Val (60:06)
• “The only God I can really hang my hat on is a God that I keep shaking out of the box and letting be beyond my small ability to name it or describe it.” — Mirabai (64:11)
• “You, each one of us, is a living meeting place for the rendezvous with the beloved.” — Mirabai (70:02)
• “There are just these flashes of recognition...and we look at each other in the middle of a game, and there's just a flash. That's the right word for it. It's very brief... That's spiritual, too.” — Pete (72:35)
• “Everything is sacred. And everyone belongs.” — Mirabai (78:14)
• “Keep it crispy.” — Mirabai (80:38)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00–18:36: Intro, banter, and episode framing
• 18:37–24:47: Welcoming Mirabai and discussing "naming the weirdness"
• 26:31–29:06: Mirabai reads from Ordinary Mysticism
• 29:07–39:02: Seeking, spiritual practice, and the dance of forgetting/remembering
• 44:21–54:03: Service, devotion, and duality as a path to nonduality
• 54:04–66:56: Doubt, Jewish roots, God-concepts, and spiritual maturity
• 66:57–71:35: Non-duality, sacredness of the self, and portals to the divine
• 71:36–77:19: Everyday mystical moments and the “good news”
• 80:38: "Keep it crispy" sign-off

Language & Tone

The tone is warm, humorous, intimate, and deeply compassionate. The language is conversational, sometimes poetic, and always inclusive—making the mystical accessible and ordinary life feel sacred. The episode balances playful jokes, gentle self-deprecation, and profound spiritual insights.

Summary:
If you want a podcast that seamlessly blends spiritual wisdom, lived experience, and a sense of mischievous play, this episode is a balm. Mirabai Starr’s Ordinary Mysticism emerges as a beacon of inclusivity and groundedness—affirming that every ordinary moment can open into the sacred, and every flawed human is, by virtue of being alive, a mystic in their own right.