We Made It Weird #209

Summary

You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes – Episode #209 Summary

Release Date: March 7, 2025

In Episode #209 of "You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes," host Pete Holmes engages in an enlightening and heartfelt conversation with co-host Krista Tippett. The episode seamlessly transitions from light-hearted topics to profound discussions about personal growth, mental health, and the complexities of human emotions. This summary captures the essence of their dialogue, highlighting key insights, memorable quotes, and the overarching themes explored throughout the episode.

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1. Introduction to the Episode

The episode kicks off with Pete Holmes introducing it as a "bonus" or "boner" episode—a playful nod to its unique format. He emphasizes the blend of light, fluffy banter with unexpectedly deep conversations, setting the tone for what listeners can expect.

Pete Holmes [01:07]: "This is the boner episode where Valerie is always our guest or I'm your guest, but we're here together and we catch up and it's awesome."

2. The We Made It Weird Format

Pete and Krista discuss the show's characteristic format of oscillating between frivolous topics and serious discussions about trauma and healing. They appreciate the balance, noting how it mirrors real-life conversations where light moments can seamlessly segue into deeper reflections.

Krista Tippett [01:35]: "Talking about real silly frivolouses and then frivolities instantly jumping into the deep end with trauma."

3. Exploring Speedrunning and Video Game Content

A significant portion of the conversation delves into the world of speedrunning, particularly focusing on the YouTuber Summoning Salt. Pete expresses admiration for Summoning Salt's documentary-style videos that capture the intense dedication and artistry behind breaking video game records.

Pete Holmes [19:07]: "Summoning Salt makes speedrunning videos that are like little documentaries. They're as good as a Netflix documentary you might see."

Krista adds her perspective, appreciating how these videos serve as modern-day scientific explorations of gaming, highlighting the patience and tenacity required to discover new strategies and glitches.

Krista Tippett [27:21]: "Video games really scratch that itch. It's the modern version of mounting sticks for survival."

4. The Intricacies of Poker

Transitioning from video games, Pete shifts the discussion to poker, sharing his fascination with the game's blend of strategy and human psychology. He elaborates on how poker mirrors real-life interactions, where players' behaviors and "tells" reveal underlying emotions and intentions.

Pete Holmes [51:05]: "Poker is like ancient Greece. It's like, I know he's being a dick, but the fates are with him."

Krista reflects on her limited exposure to poker, expressing intrigue in watching it rather than playing, and acknowledges the game's capacity to reveal personal traits and vulnerabilities.

Krista Tippett [52:00]: "I might get into watching it, but I don't know if I would like playing it."

5. Personal Therapy and Emotional Breakthroughs

One of the most compelling segments features Pete sharing a recent breakthrough from his therapy session. He discusses his realization that the familial conflicts he experienced growing up were reflections of his own internal struggles rather than external issues. This insight led him to confront feelings of being "broken" and "twisted," ultimately fostering a path toward self-acceptance and healing.

Pete Holmes [38:09]: "Today we just got in touch with my child self, like my seven-year-old self. It was really beautiful."

Krista supports Pete's revelation, emphasizing the importance of addressing deep-seated traumas and the transformative power of therapy in recontextualizing one's past.

Krista Tippett [70:41]: "Your parents are fighting. It was me. Everything that happens is a reflection on me."

6. Overcoming Shame and Embracing Vulnerability

The hosts delve into the pervasive nature of shame, especially stemming from childhood. Pete candidly discusses how societal and familial expectations contributed to his internalized shame, leading to behaviors aimed at proving his worth. Through therapy, he learns to challenge these ingrained beliefs and reinforces the importance of speaking openly about one's struggles.

Pete Holmes [68:25]: "It's just a moment to be like, this is. My problems are ridiculous."

Krista echoes the sentiment, highlighting how therapy can help individuals reframe their self-perception and build a healthier relationship with their past selves.

Krista Tippett [72:18]: "The game of it is to keep showing up to your child self and saying, that's not true now."

7. Final Thoughts and Closing Reflections

As the episode draws to a close, Pete and Krista reflect on the journey of self-discovery and the continuous effort required to overcome internal conflicts. They emphasize the significance of community and shared experiences in fostering healing and personal growth.

Pete Holmes [73:14]: "What happens is one of the things I like about poker is... you watch these highly sensitive people acting."

Krista shares her own experience of connecting with her child self through therapy, underscoring the episode's central message about the enduring pursuit of self-understanding and acceptance.

Krista Tippett [71:35]: "It wasn't true then, and it's not true now."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Pete Holmes [01:07]: "This is the boner episode where Valerie is always our guest or I'm your guest, but we're here together and we catch up and it's awesome."

• Krista Tippett [01:35]: "Talking about real silly frivolouses and then frivolities instantly jumping into the deep end with trauma."

• Pete Holmes [19:07]: "Summoning Salt makes speedrunning videos that are like little documentaries. They're as good as a Netflix documentary you might see."

• Pete Holmes [51:05]: "Poker is like ancient Greece. It's like, I know he's being a dick, but the fates are with him."

• Pete Holmes [38:09]: "Today we just got in touch with my child self, like my seven-year-old self. It was really beautiful."

• Pete Holmes [68:25]: "It's just a moment to be like, this is. My problems are ridiculous."

• Krista Tippett [72:18]: "The game of it is to keep showing up to your child self and saying, that's not true now."

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Conclusion

Episode #209 of "You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes" offers listeners a rich tapestry of humor, introspection, and vulnerability. Through engaging dialogues on speedrunning, poker, and personal therapy, Pete and Krista provide a nuanced exploration of the human psyche and the journey toward self-acceptance. Their candid conversations encourage listeners to embrace their own vulnerabilities and seek personal growth, making this episode both entertaining and profoundly impactful.

Transcript

[Pete Holmes]

You made it with. You made it with. You made it with. Oh, yeah. You made it with.

[Valerie]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

You made it weird. You made it weird with Pete Holmes.

[Krista Tippett]

What's happening with.

[Pete Holmes]

What's happening to you?

[Krista Tippett]

What's happening to you, to me, to.

[Pete Holmes]

You, to us, to them, to us. Start spreading. People are gonna turn it off, and it's too good of an episode to turn off.

[Krista Tippett]

People are gonna turn.

[Pete Holmes]

People are gonna turn it off. They can't handle that.

[Krista Tippett]

I would. Whoever just goes, like, in the middle of that, like, nope, can't do it. I mean, so I would love that person. I would.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm in that mood sometimes. I'm in that mood often.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, this is. We made it weird. This is the. We call it the bonus episode, which is sort of condescending, I guess. This is the.

[Krista Tippett]

Can we change it to boner episode?

[Pete Holmes]

This is the boner episode where Valerie is always our guest or I'm your guest, but we're here together and we catch up and it's awesome, and I'm glad you're here. And this episode is incredible. I love it. Light, fluffy, interesting, and then surprisingly deep at the end.

[Krista Tippett]

Classic.

[Pete Holmes]

I burped.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah, you had several burps throughout that. That was gross.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, we all hated it.

[Krista Tippett]

Just a classic. Classic. We made it. Weird format, I would say.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Krista Tippett]

Talking about real silly frivolouses and then frivolities instantly jumping into the deep end with trauma.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, trauma. But, like, healing.

[Krista Tippett]

Healing.

[Pete Holmes]

Healing traumas.

[Krista Tippett]

Healing traumas.

[Pete Holmes]

Healing traumas with Krista Tippett. Hi, I'm Cresta Tippett sitting in for Krista. Cresta is Krista's alter ego.

[Krista Tippett]

Sistas.

[Pete Holmes]

Krista's sista. Cresta is Tippet. Tipping Point. Malcolm Gladwell. We're glad you're here. I'm on the road. Peteholmes.com just. Just go look at the dates if you want to come see me live. Thanks, everybody. That came to the Largo. That was last night. I will say the cities.

[Krista Tippett]

Why not?

[Pete Holmes]

The Next Largo is April 5th. My next tour date is New Jersey, Atlantic City, followed by Austin, St. Louis, Nashville, Irvine, San Jose, and Royal Oak, Michigan. We haven't updated the art yet, but this is the PG13 tour, because I just noticed that my new hour happens to be PG13. Yeah, cleanish. Ish. There's some. Some naughty, but not heavy naughty. PG PG 13.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Not boring, but cleanish. And I really love it. Cleanish.

[Krista Tippett]

Okay, don't say it.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I'm saying?

[Krista Tippett]

Even one more Time.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay. I thought, okay. And we're glad you're here. And if you don't know the show, the way we do the ads are these are things we actually use and actually love. So they're sincere and they're very often life changing stuff that is all over my desk. So if you want to support the show, try a Pete's Pick, maybe get one for a friend, who knows? But it really helps the show use those codes. Katie, roll that beautiful bean footage and then we'll get into the episode right after this.

[Valerie]

Let's talk about socks. Who cares, right? That's what I thought. This is real. I thought, who cares? All socks are the same.

[Pete Holmes]

They're all just dumb fucking tubes for your feet.

[Valerie]

Then I did the Colbert show, Late Night with Stephen Colbert. And in the gift basket were socks by a company, a small company called Worn. So Stephen Colbert puts all of his favorite things in the gift basket. And I found these socks called Worn Socks and I put them on and I am, I'm not just saying this obsessed. Did a complete sock drawer overhaul and now they are all worn socks because they're amazing. They are their everyday crew socks and they are made from something called Arrow Wool Aerowool. It's patented. It's their own thing. It's a performance enhanced merino that feels fantastic, stays dry and looks amazing. I thought all socks were the same. I couldn't have been more wrong. They are super, super soft, which is great. Aerowool carries 15. Excuse me, reading the stats here. 15 times less moisture than cotton. That's why I love them. They stay super, super dry and the grip on them even after you wash them is incredible. It wicks twice as well and lasts five times longer than cotton, which is incredible. That means you're not just comfy when you first put these on. You're comfortable and dry all day long, which is for sure a game changer. No sweaty, damp feeling or grossness by mid afternoon like cotton.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what else I love?

[Valerie]

Unlike other merino bands, they are merino.

[Pete Holmes]

That's the fabric.

[Valerie]

They are machine washable. And every time you wash them, they refit. I don't understand that. You're tossing them in a garble of water and soap and they're getting tossed about. It's magic. You wash them and they come out of the wash and they fit like they're the first time every time. No sliding down or stretching out. I don't know why, but especially as I get older, I want my socks to stay put. If they start to sag. They go in the trash. And I've yet to throw out a pair of my worn socks. You gotta check them out today. Upgrade your socks and your basics. They have other stuff. They got T shirts, boxers, mids, all this daily wear stuff. Get the better basics that you deserve.

[Pete Holmes]

For a better experience.

[Valerie]

Check them out@warren brand.com that's W O R N B R-A N D.com and use code WEIRD for 20% off your first purchase. That's Warnbrand. Don't forget to save 20% off with code WEIRD. Absolute, absolute game changer. We're also brought to us by our friends at Mud Water. It is March, which means spring is right around the corner, which means it's the perfect time to refresh your routine. Maybe you're thinking about shaking off the winter blues, focusing on your wellness, or simply finding a new way to feel energized throughout the day. Well, one change I can actually stick to is ditching those endless cups of coffee and reaching for something better. Mud Water. I love Mud Water. I'm obsessed with Mud Water. If you're looking something to cut out coffee, have less coffee jitters, but still avoid that afternoon slump. Mud Water is the perfect nourishing drink to help you power through. It's not your average cup of joe with a blend of cacao chai, turmeric and adaptogenic mushrooms. It helps you feel more focused without the crash. It's smooth, steady and honestly just makes you feel better. It's a mood lift and an energy enhancer and it's easy. We're all busy. I understand that. But in just two minutes, mix it with hot water or milk.

[Pete Holmes]

I like it.

[Valerie]

I actually put a scoop in my smoothies. No hassle, no over caffeinated craziness, just pure focus. So whether you're ready to embrace the new season or just watch, get a fresh start to your daily routine. Give Mud Water a try and you can save our listeners. Get up to 43% off your entire order, free shipping and a free rechargeable frother. And head to mudwatermudwtr.com and use code Weird at checkout. And MUDWTR is also available at Target and Sprouts locations across the US So it's never been easier to grab a cup of this.

[Pete Holmes]

Pick me up. All right everybody. So glad you're here. Valerie.

[Krista Tippett]

Get into it.

[Pete Holmes]

Welcome everybody to the podcast. How we feel today and what we think occasioned those feelings. How we can maintain the good feelings and ward off or at least, you know, Tolerate the bad questions of what it could have been that we did or didn't do that led to certain discomfort or comfort. Checking in, having revelations we've had before, but forgetting we've had them before and celebrating them anew.

[Krista Tippett]

That's right. And for you, it's just an hour a week, but for us, it's every day, our whole lives.

[Pete Holmes]

That's how I feel when I come home. Daddy's home. My favorite Mark Wahlberg movie is Weird Burn. Yeah, I got Wahlberg on the Brain. I was just writing some Boston jokes. Who cares? Who cares? But when I come home from being away for, like, a show, the way I know I'm home is you sit down next to me and you go like, I'm feeling just kind of, like, chunked or like. That's what I would say. But you're like, I'm just sort of feeling like you tell me physically how you feel, emotionally how you feel, what you're planning to do to change or maintain how you feel, and then when you're done that, inevitably, that's what this podcast is. Makes me go like, well, I've been feeling that, but can I say something? Yeah, I think I can. It's literally what the show is. I wouldn't have it any other way. I can't stand people that don't talk about how they feel, why they're feeling that way. Yeah, it's just, what are you doing? What do you do all day?

[Krista Tippett]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

That's our Netflix.

[Krista Tippett]

And, you know, I think I am the type of. I know I'm the type of person who needs that, and that's my nature. However, I didn't live that way until I met you.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, really?

[Krista Tippett]

Not at all. It's one of the ways that I've, Like, Pisces. Pisces style. Like, shaped to your. Like, watery. Shaped to your container.

[Pete Holmes]

Watery shape to my container.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah, that makes sense. That's a. That's a. I liked it.

[Pete Holmes]

I knew what you meant. Watery shape to my container. I just bared repeating.

[Krista Tippett]

But I do think I am that the type of person who I. It is either that, like, full force, we're constantly thinking about the feelings and saying, and. Or I'm completely dead to myself, like, totally asleep, which is what I was before I met you. Isn't that romantic?

[Pete Holmes]

And then you made me romance.

[Krista Tippett]

That one was accidental. I was really trying to not harmonize. Yeah. I was trying to be, like, flat, because I think it's really funny if you're singing, but you're, like, so out of sync with each other. Romance. It's hard to do a flat note. Like, do an intentional flat note.

[Pete Holmes]

But a flat note is a note.

[Krista Tippett]

Right, But I mean, like, so you have to do it with a wrong corresponding.

[Pete Holmes]

Sorry, this is feeling a little major. Normative. Oh, you just like the white keys. How fitting. Harpsichord. Or sometimes on a synth. It's. Black keys are the. So there you go. Oh, wow. Progressive.

[Krista Tippett]

On a synth.

[Pete Holmes]

A synthesizer.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah. I thought a synth was like. Was.

[Pete Holmes]

You're not picturing the modern synth. Modern synth is like. They're black keys with white sharps.

[Krista Tippett]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And for some reason it's only one octave and they have everything they need. That's like what a DJ would have.

[Krista Tippett]

Right?

[Pete Holmes]

It's like, I'm the old Mortal Kombat. This is only gonna be for me. But if you had Mortal Kombat for the Sega Genesis, there were only three buttons. Or Street Fighter. So you would press. This is the dumbest fix they had. You'd press the select button to change from punches to kicks. And the.

[Krista Tippett]

That makes sense to me.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, but it absolutely doesn't. I mean, like, with respect, Senator, you don't play Street Fighter. So it's like the thought of that is just. It's. It's ghastly. They were greedy. They should have waited for the six button controller. Welcome to Retro Gaming. What are your YouTubes? Here are my YouTubes.

[Krista Tippett]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Retro Gaming. You do. You know mine. You know mine?

[Krista Tippett]

I could. Let me see if I can guess yours. Tell me your top. Like, have your five or three.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay.

[Krista Tippett]

In the. In the chamber.

[Pete Holmes]

All right. I'm trying. It's hard.

[Krista Tippett]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Because as we've discussed our online. These portals. It's like a dream, right? When you say, like, what does your algorithm show you? That's the new. What did you dream about last night?

[Krista Tippett]

Well, I don't.

[Pete Holmes]

You don't remember?

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah. I'll tell you that when I come down from putting Lila to bed.

[Pete Holmes]

Yep.

[Krista Tippett]

I will always find one of three things. I. It's. It feels.

[Pete Holmes]

A dead body.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah, a dead body. The 1. The fourth constant is a dirty kitchen.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I love it. I. But I. In my. I'm feeling wonderful today. So I can accept that. And worse. No, I know. Worse than accept it.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm prepared to defend how I'm right. That it's like, it's our time. Let's not waste it doing dishes. Let's clean those dishes in the morning when it's the day.

[Krista Tippett]

That's true.

[Pete Holmes]

Night is dirty.

[Krista Tippett]

Day is clean that would make sense if you weren't getting a jump start on the night. Like, I'm still working up there. Putting her to bed. So I. The way that, like, a nine on the enneagram. Watery Pisces works.

[Pete Holmes]

Water shape of Pisces is that, like.

[Krista Tippett]

I'm not sitting down till we're all sitting down. So, like, if some. If the partner is.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I am. They're setting up the pancake dinner, and, like, they're working, and someone's like, I don't know how to heat this maple syrup. And they're putting little candles under it. And you widen the reveal. I'm already at a huge communal table eating eight pancakes. I know I'm pretty oblivious and pretty happy.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Just like, these are good.

[Krista Tippett]

That is so.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't think the syrup needs to be hot.

[Krista Tippett]

That is.

[Pete Holmes]

And I think I'm helpful.

[Krista Tippett]

This is like.

[Pete Holmes]

It's worse. It would be one thing if I was like, I should really be helping, but I think I am helping.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm letting them know they're good. I think they don't want me to be hungry. You don't want me hungry. I'm not. I'm no use to you if I'm hungry.

[Krista Tippett]

That's so true.

[Pete Holmes]

It's very true. It's a type of oblivio that I am.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah. But anyway, so. So I will come down and I'll see you watching YouTube on the couch.

[Pete Holmes]

YouTube.com. yeah.

[Krista Tippett]

Dirty kitchen. And not always.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm so ready to go against this. I like, I. First of all, this is on the rare occasions where Lila lets me slip out.

[Krista Tippett]

That's true.

[Pete Holmes]

Rare.

[Krista Tippett]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Usually like, this weird. I don't know if it's weird, but it's what's happening. You'll be rocking her. And she just wants me to stay. And I do.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Some nights I go. I think she's really close. I'm gonna leave. And that's when you come down and find me. Dirty Kitchen. I'm not gonna waste that precious time.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah. But then. And this doesn't happen that often. It just happened recently, though, where it's like, it took a long time. So you had like, 45. Yeah. Minute to an hour. So then by the time I'm, like, sitting down and like, okay, we're watching.

[Pete Holmes]

White Lotus and I call everything. He's going to say yes to go to Bangkok. I have to go to Bangkok. You're like, did you watch this while I was rocking her? And I'm like, whoopsie doodle. Somebody cooked my noodle. I watched it twice. I'm just kidding.

[Krista Tippett]

That would be such a betrayal.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, yeah. That's our.

[Krista Tippett]

That's our Cheating.

[Pete Holmes]

Cheating.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah. And cheating is just totally fine.

[Pete Holmes]

Eating isn't cheating. I hate. Eating isn't cheating. I hate. Eating isn't. I wish I would stop saying it.

[Krista Tippett]

I'm going to say I hate eating, period.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, my God.

[Krista Tippett]

Not eating. No, I understand eating.

[Pete Holmes]

I understand. We love it. Well, don't bring eating into that.

[Krista Tippett]

That's right.

[Pete Holmes]

Eating.

[Krista Tippett]

That's right.

[Pete Holmes]

Eating is its own eating.

[Krista Tippett]

Is glory sacred.

[Pete Holmes]

It's its own glory. Don't be like. Don't call a blowjob like Disneyland or something. Like, it's already a thing.

[Krista Tippett]

It's already.

[Pete Holmes]

You don't need to. Eating is great.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And we don't. We're not the first to be like, are you. Stop it. Eating isn't.

[Krista Tippett]

I don't know. I don't know what I prefer, though. Like, I just don't. I just don't want the words for it at all, I guess just oral sex. Yeah, oral sex. But you're. But, like, it's different context. You're not going to be like, oh, yeah, perform oral sex on me, please.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that. Like, if Data from Star Trek was having sex with a lady Data, it'd be like, would you like me to perform oral sex? That does sound pretty close to something I would say while we were having sex. If I said, would you like oral pleasure?

[Krista Tippett]

Oh, my God. You do say oral pleasure.

[Pete Holmes]

I think that's from Pulp Fiction. Do you. Will you give me oral pleasure? It's from Pulp Fiction.

[Krista Tippett]

Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

And he does.

[Krista Tippett]

He does. Oh, wow.

[Pete Holmes]

Pulp Fiction. If it's in Pulp Fiction, it can't be wrong. Which is why I say the N word.

[Krista Tippett]

I'm just kidding. Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

It's just a joke. That movie has, like, an uncomfortable amount of white guys saying the N word.

[Krista Tippett]

I've only seen that movie once, and I only remember scenes with Uma Therma Thurman.

[Pete Holmes]

Uma Umami Thurman. Ooh, the new Umami thermos. Do you have something that tastes like. I don't know what. Keep it warm or cold. What's it supposed to be? We don't know. The Umami thermos made by Uma Thurman. And also, if you order now, you get the Uma theremin. She's doing it with a sword, though. It turns out you can't do a theremin sound. No one can.

[Krista Tippett]

No one can. If you can't.

[Pete Holmes]

No one can if I can't. On my head.

[Krista Tippett]

On my head. Okay. So anyway, long time to get to.

[Pete Holmes]

But what are we gonna get to it? And then we're like, oh, well, we have 50 more minutes. We have 50 more minutes. Okay, topic two, the whole. Welcome to podcasting 101. Never the crowd. Get to it. I'm Howie Mandel. Welcome to never get to it.

[Krista Tippett]

That is a good idea for podcast, and it basically is what we do naturally. But if we were intentionally, like, we start talking about something up top, and then we never get to it until the very end. Well, yeah, that's pretty much what we do.

[Pete Holmes]

It is what I. Sometimes I leave those threads a dangling, though.

[Krista Tippett]

But okay to pull these threads.

[Pete Holmes]

All right, go ahead.

[Krista Tippett]

I'm coming down. You're watching YouTube and it's going to be either, like, Donkey the video game.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, yeah, that's. That's not as much these days. We can say I like comedy videos that are about video games. Like, that's how, like, how people get their news from the Daily Show. I get, like, my new games and stuff like that, which I don't even play.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because we're. We're out here parenting.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Not that you can't, but I just don't prioritize it.

[Krista Tippett]

I'm going to put that under the same category, though, as, like, vintage video games. It seems different to you.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, summoning salt. I'm sorry, are you. By the way, let's say there's 5,000 people listening. Four of them just went, oh, shit. Because they know summoning salt, he's the best.

[Krista Tippett]

I don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

He's incredible. You do. He makes the speedrunning videos, but they're like little documentaries. One comes out, like, every three months, maybe more, and the stakes couldn't be higher. Frame perfect. Mike Tyson's punch out.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And he builds it, though. So there's a lot of speedrunning videos where it's just people speedrunning. He's telling you what they're doing. And I find it to be a warm bath, cucumber slice, eyeballs. Like, it's so meditative.

[Krista Tippett]

But tell me if I'm wrong here.

[Pete Holmes]

Hit it.

[Krista Tippett]

I either you are doing that earlier in the night, but I think your summoning salt in all of your speedrun videos happen mostly when you're out of town, like, when you're on tour, because you told me that you were into those, and I swear I've never seen you watch one.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I don't Know when I'm watching those cuz they're long and you're right, I, I, you're bringing like, I'm in a hotel. I have a show that night. That's what I think is it's my friend. It's my digital friend. That's like, here's how someone broke Mario Kart. And I'm like, thanks. I just don't want to be alone right now.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah. So I think I, I think summoning Salt and ah and me belong in the same category. Like, so we're never in the same room at the same time. Because whatever itch, it's scratching.

[Pete Holmes]

I understand. Yeah. If you're there, why am I watching Summoning Soul?

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Because I could just be comforted by your presence.

[Krista Tippett]

That's right.

[Pete Holmes]

But I will contend that if anyone doesn't, that's a hot wreck. If you grew up in the 90s playing Nintendo games and just want to watch. Honestly, like, I get weirdly emotional about it, and I feel like their dads don't understand them.

[Krista Tippett]

Oh.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm like, but it's art. It's beautiful and it's art. And I just know that they're not, or a good number of them probably aren't appreciated. And I'm like, what they're doing is incredibly focused and nuanced. It's interesting, but it's not very useful in, like, the world of commerce even. That's not true. They go, they get on Twitch. They get a million subs. That's great. That makes me freak out. I love it. I'm like, you found a way to make a living, like rolling toothpicks with a mouse on it. Like a little mouse transport, you know, like, it looks so stupid, but it's important to them and it's important to me. And then you found people that will watch you move a mouse on a little toothpick thing. That metaphor didn't work.

[Krista Tippett]

No, that made it more confusing. Because what I'm realizing in this moment is I only think I know what these are. Is it just them going through the games as fast as possible?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Well, look, this is boring, but it's almost over. Like Mike Tyson's punch out, there's certain ways. There's like nine fighters, and there's a fastest way to beat it. But, like, it comes down to all this pattern recognition, but then all this, like, reflexing. And then also there's always like, the guy, the person. It's always, guys, I'm sorry. I've watched a million of these. I'VE never seen a female Speedrunner.

[Krista Tippett]

That's okay. I don't think the ladies will be offended.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't think we don't mind being.

[Krista Tippett]

Left out of this one.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, you guys can have this one. But there's the guy that's doing the speedrunning who's got the reflexes of, like, an automaton. Like, it's insane. And then there's always this other guy. And I see the pattern of the universe in this. There's always some other guy with a great screen name, like Ham in Water or something.

[Krista Tippett]

Beautiful screen name.

[Pete Holmes]

Beautiful. And they have to, like, earnestly be like. And Ham and Water found another way through. So there's the Speedrunner, and then there's the people that just go and experiment over and over. Like, how do you figure out that mashing B and A alternately while jumping on a certain block will clip you? Meaning, like, put Mario into the block, and then you can run through the whole level or whatever it might be. It's because there's people that are doing a different skill. Their skill is patience and tenacity. And then they upload the Strat. See, I love things with lingo. Strat just means strategy. And then the speedrunners use those Strats to shave. We're talking about, like, three frames off a record. And when they win, when they do it, and Bowser falls into the lava and they scream and, you know, they're just alone. It's like a Spielberg movie. I picture their dumb smoking dad downstairs being like, got a job. And they're up there being the fucking champion.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah. Of realities. I agree. I think that's pretty incredible. Are they discovering glitches or are they secrets that are programmed in?

[Pete Holmes]

They're not secrets. They're breaking the game.

[Krista Tippett]

Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

They're breaking the game in a way that the game can be broken. And they get really specific about it, like, on what frame and, like, when the screen. I won't even bore you, but let's just say there's, like, certain times you can jump on the flagpole at the end of a Mario level. And if you do it too early, you get a longer animation of the castle than the fireworks. And you don't want that. So they're trying to jump on the bottom of the flag.

[Krista Tippett]

Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

So there's no animation. And then they do all these things where you, like, run under the flag. I'm telling you, I get juice.

[Krista Tippett]

That is cool.

[Pete Holmes]

The one with Mike Tyson. Because to do a perfect Mike Tyson, I think it's like a 58 second Mike Tyson fight. It might be 54 seconds. I was on the edge of my seat and this kid summoning salt edits the shit out of, like, he has a good sense for narrative and music and tension. And, like, they're good. There is. They're as good as a, you know, like a Netflix documentary you might see. I think they're up there that does similar quality.

[Krista Tippett]

I get that you're sweet too. I mean, I don't think I want to watch it, but I like that that exists and that these people are like scientists for a game.

[Pete Holmes]

And if you add on that, like, if you grew up in a time when being good at a video game, like, we used to call each other and be like, I beat that level. That was our Reddit. But we'd like, we needed to talk about it. And then you see these people. It turns out, well, this is interesting. This speaks to our brains and psychology. I still have the groove that if my parents aren't happy with me, I'm not safe. Right. Similarly, I have the groove that if you're good at Mario Brothers, you're an important and special person. And the fervor that I'm talking about speedrunning right now is indicative of just how much I believe that if my parents are disappointed in me or if I don't reply to their texts, that I'm in physical danger. You know what I'm saying? Like, I know it sounds like I'm forcing that, but, like, these ties to our past, the good ones and the bad ones are so fucking real.

[Krista Tippett]

So deep. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's crazy.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah. And I. We do have. It's so interesting. We have this impulse to, like, have these little tasks. Like, this is our biology because we, like, depended on tasks for survival, where it's like we're just stacking sticks for three weeks to make a shelter.

[Pete Holmes]

That's exactly right.

[Krista Tippett]

That's the part of the brain. It's scratching. I just spent the morning with our friend's baby. She's 14 months old. And I just watched this nature. Like, I. I totally just followed her lead. And all she wanted to do was like, put things in a box, take things out of the box.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Krista Tippett]

Open this water bottle. Close this water bottle. Like, it's. And it's just like, if she can do, she can do anything in the world. And though that's what she wants to do is these, like, little tasks. And I think video games really scratch that itch.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. We want to metabolize something and liter and. Yeah, it's exciting. That's why it excites me that there's the guy who isn't doing the speedrunning but is just figuring out a new way. Like, it really sounds boring, but, like. Like, there might be an inconsistent strategy in Super Mario World where you jump off a moving platform and if you do it perfectly, you'll go through the wall and get the star. Right? And then they're like, but it's too inconsistent. Like, you should see what they do. They have, like, spreadsheets and all this stuff. And it's like, you can only do it 22. Like, the best player can do it 22% of the time. And then they're like, so we need another Strat. So somebody just goes in and goes, well, what if I just backwards jump up this waterfall? And that's their day. There's something really meaningful to me when something that is. That seems to be bullshit. It's like the movie radio or the broadside. Like when someone who is discarded is revealed to be precious.

[Krista Tippett]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

I can't get enough of it.

[Krista Tippett]

Totally.

[Pete Holmes]

And that's what it is. It's like, that's why I'm adding to it. No one gets these kids. And then they found Summoning salt videos are very popular. Millions of people watch them. It's like, I find this great redemption in that. And exactly what you're saying is this is what human beings do. It is moving stones into a basket and bringing them back. Like, it's this sort of thing, but it's the modern version of that.

[Krista Tippett]

Right. Yeah, I do. I am compelled by the. The, like, if this. If they had this skill, even when you were growing up, no one would know because we didn't have the Internet.

[Pete Holmes]

That's exactly right.

[Krista Tippett]

And now they can, like, find their people.

[Pete Holmes]

Okay.

[Krista Tippett]

Good use of the Internet.

[Pete Holmes]

So I'm working on this bit about Nostradamus, who made all these predictions in the 1550s? 1550. I asked the audience last night. I go, when was Nostradamus making his predictions? And someone said, 1350. And I go, 1550. And I go, but to us, that's the same.

[Krista Tippett]

Oh, 100%.

[Pete Holmes]

There's no difference between two.

[Krista Tippett]

There's 200 different.

[Pete Holmes]

It's barefoot on cobblestones. There's the plague.

[Krista Tippett]

It's cold, it's dark. It sucks. It's the worst sucks. Is that Medieval Times? I'm embarrassed to ask. I feel like.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I think it is.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I think the movie. I have to go to movies. The movie where Adam Driver and Matt Damon.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah. The last.

[Pete Holmes]

The Last Rapist. Yeah. It is about assault. Yeah.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That movie took place in the 1300s, I think.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah. And that's Medieval Times. That's just my worst time. I would.

[Pete Holmes]

I think I'll wager that the people in that time.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Knew it was the worst time.

[Krista Tippett]

Because here's the other question. Is that the Dark Ages, did that happen within the Medieval Times?

[Pete Holmes]

Just because I'm really feeling cocky.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm going to say with blind.

[Krista Tippett]

We're so dumb.

[Pete Holmes]

Like arrogance. Yeah, I know. We're dumb. That the Medieval Age ended with the Dark Ages, which took us to the Renaissance. Here's what happened. It was Nights and the Plague. An Adam Driver assaulted in a movie, assaulting somebody and Matt Damon wanting to kill him. That's what was happening. And there was a library. This is it. This is like drunk history. There was a library. And in this library was everything we knew. Everything.

[Krista Tippett]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

We had all the books and all. And then because times were so shitty and there was just no food and it was cold, the, like, illiterate class got real. They got antsy in their pantsy and they were tired of the kings in their leopard. Their white leopard trim.

[Krista Tippett]

Uh, hu.

[Pete Holmes]

Walking around with goblets of warm mulled wine and always a drumstick. And they're like, fuck you. And they also got real superstitious that, like, knowledge and education was like evil and we're getting away from some primal God. So they burned down this great library. And then it was literally dark for a while.

[Krista Tippett]

Wait. Yeah, this is the Dark Age. Filled the sky, smoke fills the sky.

[Pete Holmes]

People don't know this, but the Dark Ages were literally dark. It was. The sky was dark.

[Krista Tippett]

I'm. I.

[Pete Holmes]

And then someone in. Meanwhile, in Rome, I don't know what. This isn't Rome. This is like England.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then in Rome, Leonardo da Vinci was like, what if men fly? And then the skies cleared and everyone was like, science is good again. Because there was so much pasta and is that there was so much. This is all.

[Krista Tippett]

By then they had access to by.

[Pete Holmes]

Then, Christopher Columbus, they don't talk about this. Christopher Columbus went to China first. He found pasta, brought it back to Italy. Olive Garden. When you hear your family. And that's why there's libraries again. Oh, yeah. Because of ravioli. Because of Italian cookies which we've covered. Taste like spice, right? And they're garbage. People were eating them and they're like, you know what? Maybe I will read a book. Because this cookie is not cutting it. It's not worth it. I'd rather Italian cookies were so bad.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And are to this day so bad.

[Krista Tippett]

Well, it's the same ones that they had.

[Pete Holmes]

It's the same. They haven't, it's the only recipe they haven't updated.

[Krista Tippett]

Right. And it's the actual same cookies.

[Pete Holmes]

It's the same because no one's eaten them.

[Krista Tippett]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

They don't. They have an expiration date of never.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So people would eat those non sweet kind of spice cookies. I'm picturing like a flat, like it's, it looks like a snowflake.

[Krista Tippett]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I mean? And you're like, oh great, it's Christmas and a cookie. Then you eat it and you're like, I'm sorry, is this my medicine? Is this how you've masked my medicine? Because you need to mask it more and you somehow stomach that down because you're like, this has to be good for me. And then you go, all right, I'll read a book. And that's when literacy came and the age of Enlightenment. I think that was after the Dark ages. And now we're in the second dark age. No.

[Krista Tippett]

Well, yeah, that it does.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't know. We're not, we're, we're. We are in a weird place where there's so much. The library seems to be again and like everyone having information. Like the Catholic church used to like keep the Bible from the, from the congregants because they were like, we can't let these guys. And that used to be all information.

[Krista Tippett]

Seems kind of right.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I, I agree this point. Well, think about the books in your doctor's office. The leather bound books. Those had. That was WebMD printed out. And now we have it and we're like, do I have non spatial vertigo? And they're like, you shouldn't be reading this.

[Krista Tippett]

That is, that is so interesting because of course I don't like, I would. I see the value in being like, make it accessible to everyone. But then you are sort of like. But they're really misinterpreting everything.

[Pete Holmes]

Speed. Agree.

[Krista Tippett]

And using it to like, you know, excuse violence and terrible things.

[Pete Holmes]

Absolutely. So we have access to everything. But we're the same. A lot of us are the same. All of us are still kind of like animal, you know, mammal things with these urges and these petty feelings and egos and all that sort of stuff. And then you have the library of infinity and it's like, would you like real time satellite footage of Pennsylvania? And you're like, yes.

[Krista Tippett]

I thought that The Dark Ages, and this is probably equally hilariously wrong. Was brought on by, like, maybe. Maybe it was the Crusaders, like, but just like Christians burning books, maybe. Yeah, maybe for, like, you know, I don't remember as far as I can.

[Pete Holmes]

I thought the Crusades, like, all awful things, moved civilization forward in some sort. This is.

[Krista Tippett]

Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

No, no, no. I do not stand by the Crusades at all. I'm just saying in the way that atrocities tend to make somebody rich. Because, of course, the Crusades are, like, seem to be about a religion, but it's really a war, and it's a war to control. Again, I sound like I know what I'm talking. I don't.

[Krista Tippett]

It did move things forward for Christian, white, straight men.

[Pete Holmes]

No, that's what I'm saying. But, like, take your group. That's gonna move forward. And yes, I will apologize and owe up to the fact that that usually was straight, white, European males.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That group then gets grotesque amounts of money and power. This sounds tricky to talk about because that's what's happening now.

[Krista Tippett]

And so it has always been happening for so long.

[Pete Holmes]

I've been really rocking the perhaps parable lately. I got my hair cut. I don't think my friend Kat would mind, but she seems so stressed, and I wish I had told her the perhaps thing. It's so helpful to me.

[Krista Tippett]

Well, that is. The thing is. I don't know. This is also incredibly tricky to talk about, but it's like, it. It might be easier to keep an appropriate. Let's just say this as a thought experiment. I'm not saying this is true, but what if it's easier to keep an appropriate perspective, like perhaps or like, you know, like Trump is saying all these scary things, but he's not really able to do every single.

[Pete Holmes]

That's what I told her. I told her about the.

[Krista Tippett]

Says.

[Pete Holmes]

What's the Instagram account?

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah, I can't remember her name now, but it's. She's. She's like.

[Pete Holmes]

Then there's more than one of them.

[Krista Tippett]

Because, like, the country's government teacher or something, she, like, calls herself that. Okay, but it's like a political scientist who. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Just explains the difference between orating and yelling about all the things you're going to do and the headlines and being like, this is probably what's actually going to happen.

[Krista Tippett]

Right, Exactly.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. I was more in my comfort zone telling you what the enlightenment was.

[Krista Tippett]

By the way, I know all the pasta and. Yeah. And we're probably equally wrong about this.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, I just wanted to say It's. Sorry.

[Krista Tippett]

No, go ahead.

[Pete Holmes]

It's just tricky for me to be like, atrocities lead to good things. I don't know if that's true.

[Krista Tippett]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And because we're in the middle of such a upheaval, in turmoil, I'm gonna walk away slowly from that claim. But I do. I do have something. Yes.

[Krista Tippett]

No, go ahead.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, what else is in my algo.

[Krista Tippett]

Oh, yes. Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

And then in the second half, I want to talk about this breakthrough in therapy I had this morning, which was really meaningful to me.

[Krista Tippett]

I want to hear about it because I haven't actually heard about it yet. You just had it this morning.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's one of the reasons I feel so clear. Remember yesterday? I was, like, chunked as you chunked, like, paralyzed with anxiety.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You couldn't do anything.

[Krista Tippett]

You made me laugh so hard. You had your head in your hands and were, like, wincing.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Krista Tippett]

And then you. This is just the magic of Pete. You, like. You were really, genuinely doing that pose.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Krista Tippett]

And then you kind of peeked out from behind your hand and you went, nothing in my life warrants this pose.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Krista Tippett]

It's one of my. It's. I just fall in love with you over and over again every time you are fully engrossed in an emotion, having it now and then you have a little peekaboo out of it.

[Pete Holmes]

All I want in life from the people that I love and for the people I love and for myself is just the ability to have a real time. And I can't always do it. But in that moment, I was 10 out of. I won't say 10 out of 10, but I was a good eight.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

If I'm above a seven, I can't do anything. And I just want to be like. Just everyone go away. And I was at an 8, so I really felt like I couldn't do anything. But just a moment to be like, this is. My problems are ridiculous.

[Krista Tippett]

It makes me feel so safe, and I love it. And it always, like, makes us laugh. Sort of like a holy laugh.

[Pete Holmes]

I knew you were going to say a holy laugh.

[Krista Tippett]

Like a really. A laugh that is so. It just. It's so aligning. You instantly, like, get perspective while you're laughing. And you went back into being.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I had to. I had more upset to do, of.

[Krista Tippett]

Course, which is totally fine, but it just. I just love it. And you'll. You'll do that when you're mad. We've probably shared this, but where. If you're, like, ra. You know, sort of raging about something, you'll kind of do an aside where you go, I'm just being mad for fun, which is so great. And then my favorite case of this. I don't know if we shared this story on the podcast, but we. This was years ago when your book was coming out and we were at Huntington Gardens. I know.

[Pete Holmes]

You'll know we've shared this story. Have we share it again?

[Krista Tippett]

Should I?

[Pete Holmes]

It's one of the greats.

[Krista Tippett]

Okay, so one of the greats.

[Pete Holmes]

And then we'll go in the mids and then we'll finish the algo. And my breakthrough. Just so everyone knows where we're at.

[Krista Tippett]

Okay. So we were at Huntington Gardens and we saw this, you know, like 20 year old punk rocker who was wearing a denim shirt that on the. Or a denim jacket. And on the back it said it c'est la vie. And we thought that was really funny. And then like all the way home we were just sort of like it, I mean, and it was great. And then I think like the next day you found out that I'm gonna interject here.

[Pete Holmes]

If you come to a live show and you wear a shirt that says it say la vie. Oh, I'll just. I hug. A hug is for you.

[Krista Tippett]

And if you make us those shirts, we'll wear them forever. I think I would wear a it say love you shirt. Yeah. But I. So yeah, it was a little time after. I mean, you'll see where this is going quickly. So I'll. I'll just make it fast.

[Pete Holmes]

But I can quickly explain this. The. The proofs of my book, which means like a rough draft of your book is printed to be reviewed. And at that time I was a little bit naive and I thought the New York Times was gonna get this like it turns out the New York Times doesn't review all books. They certainly don't review small books from a comedian. You know what I mean? They're reviewing. I don't know how they pick what they're reviewing, but they're reviewing Malcolm Gladwell or Neil degrasse Tyson.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Real books. Not to say mine's not real, but at that time I didn't know that. And I was like, this is what's going to the New York Times. And I'm flipping through it and it is two drafts ago.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's so. It's like really rough. Really rough. And included like words that I put in there so I could search for those words. My word in documents is always flap or flappy. So I'm like, come back to this area so in the book, it would just say flap in all caps, Flappy. And I was just like, you know, you work on a book for so long, and you're like, this is what's gonna be reviewed.

[Krista Tippett]

It's like, the first time anybody's seeing it, and it's old draft, and I've.

[Pete Holmes]

Improved it a lot. And it was, like, filled with. Yeah, I was really upset.

[Krista Tippett]

It's re. It really is upsetting. It's like, it warranted a big response, and you did have one. And it was one of the few times where you get really pulled in. Like, I remember you just were laying on the bed, and I was sort of, like, sitting on the corner of the bed, and you were, like, totally silent and just, like, rubbing your head.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Krista Tippett]

And it was, like, silent in the room for a long time. And I just kind of kept being like, I'm so sorry, baby. Like, I. You know, like, I don't know what to say.

[Pete Holmes]

It's hard for me to even get in touch with this. But, like, doing a. Writing a book is a very, like, vulnerable and personal. And of course, vulnerable is the right word.

[Krista Tippett]

And it takes so much time.

[Pete Holmes]

And you're like, here we go. And then it gets launched, and it's like, like, yeah.

[Krista Tippett]

So it was probably like. And. And I, like. And I knew it was a big deal, so there was no sort of being like, it's no big deal. Like, you know, and so we were like that for, you know, probably a good 30 minutes, where it was really. You were really going through it and just sort of, like, taking deep breaths and being silent and rubbing your head. And then you just popped up out of nowhere and went, it. C'est la vie. And we've died.

[Pete Holmes]

That boy's jacket he provided helped me. Yeah, he was right. And by the way, I called my editor at the time, and he was like, nobody reads those.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

He was like, those are. It's like a. A waste of paper business card that lets them know that the book will be out eventually.

[Krista Tippett]

Crazy. And I just didn't like a save the date.

[Pete Holmes]

It is like a save the date.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You just write chicken and send it back.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Or beef. All right. This is awesome. I'm going to keep going on this train. I'm very excited about telling you, Val and the audience, the weirdos about the therapy thing. Right. That's it. Right?

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But try a pizza pack. Keeps the lights on. Katie, roll that beautiful bean footage.

[Valerie]

Can I be real with you right now? You need a bidet? I don't care who you are. Toilet paper is stone age and I don't like it and you need to get some warm water shooting at your butt. Especially now that it's daylight savings time, which really fudges up the whole morning routine. We need all the help we can get. If you had poo on your hand, would you just wipe it off with a tissue and call it a day? No, you would use water. You would wipe it away with the powerful jet spray of a Tushy bidet. That rhymed.

[Pete Holmes]

I like that a lot.

[Valerie]

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[Pete Holmes]

All right, we're back. Say Lavi.

[Krista Tippett]

Algo.

[Pete Holmes]

Algo. Well, you said dunkey and speedrunning.

[Krista Tippett]

Okay, so I'm gonna say video game videos.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. I also just like the video game historian. People that just tell the story of NBA Jam.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's just so cozy.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like you watch Will and Grace to be cozy.

[Krista Tippett]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

I want to be in an arcade, specifically. Like, watching an older kid play a video game makes me just feel like I have to poop. You know that feeling?

[Krista Tippett]

I know. Yes, I do.

[Pete Holmes]

I think I have to poop.

[Krista Tippett]

Like the bookstore phenomenon.

[Pete Holmes]

So cozy. So someone's playing Lethal Enforcers and I'm like, I'm gonna poop. I love it.

[Krista Tippett]

I love it.

[Pete Holmes]

I love it.

[Krista Tippett]

Another cozy poop scenario is when you're playing hide and seek. Oh, my God. And you're like, under the. In the cupboard, under the stairs. And it's so quiet and it can hear you. You, like, smell all the blankets. You hear your own breath and you're like, oh, my God, am I gonna make it?

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, my God.

[Krista Tippett]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

No shame in breaking a hide because the seek was starting to peak.

[Krista Tippett]

Okay. Second on the algo is Poker.

[Pete Holmes]

Yep.

[Krista Tippett]

And here's the thing. That's what you've been watching. Most recently, I manifested that, like, I. Like. Yeah, you told me, but I told you after. So literally, one day, I was at a pizza restaurant. A pizza restaurant.

[Pete Holmes]

A parlor.

[Krista Tippett]

A pizza parlor.

[Pete Holmes]

Get over yourself. Pizza restaurant. Oh, you're a parlor.

[Krista Tippett]

Oh, a parlor.

[Pete Holmes]

Get the phone.

[Krista Tippett]

And there was poker playing on, like, one of the TVs.

[Pete Holmes]

Poker playing at the pizza parlor.

[Krista Tippett]

Poker playing at the pizza parlor. And I said to my friend, I says to him, what do I say? What do I say? I was like, I'm surprised Pete doesn't watch poker.

[Pete Holmes]

He doesn't watch poker that's playing in the pizza parlor.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah. And I was like. Because I. I know he likes. He. You used to play poker a lot more, and it just seemed like you're a jam. Like, you'd be really into it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Krista Tippett]

I swear, the next day, I came downstairs and you were watching poker.

[Pete Holmes]

Really?

[Krista Tippett]

I didn't know for the first time in the 12 years that we've been together.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Krista Tippett]

And I was like. I just said that yesterday.

[Pete Holmes]

Wow. I just finally feel like I have the bandwidth to watch something that isn't totally brainless.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah. Because you do get involved.

[Pete Holmes]

You have to be involved. You're watching, and you're like, all right, he has an inside straight draw. That means an eight or a jack wins. Otherwise, when the eight comes and everyone's freaking out, you don't know why.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, you have to pay attention. It's not just he hit the ball. It's like, he got. He had a 2% chance.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I freak out. I love it.

[Krista Tippett]

Well, that's when all. Because I don't understand what's going on. That's when I'll say, like, did something that was unlikely to happen happen?

[Pete Holmes]

And that's what's great more than anything. Baseball. I don't know. I've seen a few baseball games in my time, and there aren't, like, oh, my God. Moments very often.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Any final table of the World Poker Tour.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

There's gonna be one moment where someone, like, has a full house and someone gets four of a kind, and you're like, oh, my. And I'm saying it out loud. I'm like, oh, my God. And here's the best part. Sorry to soliloquize about this. Soliloquies. Soliloquize is jamiroquies, cousin. What happens is one of the things I like about poker is. Is. And you see, it's not just me. The players and the. And the announcers believe this. Someone does a bad fold. Like, they fold ace, king. For some reason, it's just like, they weren't thinking. And they fold it. I don't want to go on and on. I'm just saying they should have. It wouldn't be ace, king, but let's say it's ace, 10 suited. And they fold it. And everyone's like, what the fuck?

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Why? Because they're on the short stack and they're getting blinded to death. They're going to run out of money, and they should have gone online. And then later, they play a good hand and they lose, they'll say, that's poker punishing him. They don't mean it, like, literally punishing him. But they're like, isn't it funny that often happens if you, like, dishonor the game and don't have courage when you're supposed to later when you should and you do. Poker is like, yeah, too little too late. I. I favor the bold. Like, I favor smart. And then, sorry, this is almost over. There's, like, cocky, shitty players, and sometimes you want them to win. Like, it's. It's devilish. You're like, I want. This guy sucks. And I can't wait for him to win.

[Krista Tippett]

Why?

[Pete Holmes]

And then, because, first of all, it's very clear that they're gonna win. I don't know. For some reason, you're just.

[Krista Tippett]

You're just like, poker, baby.

[Pete Holmes]

That's poker. This kid is somehow. It's like the Fates. It feels very, like, ancient Greece. It's like, I know he's being a dick, but the fates are with him. I feel like I'm not fighting in the war, but I'm in the council. I'm in a toga. Being like, yes, he's a blowhard, but the fates are on his back.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And they're like, here. And sometimes this is better. Someone who's a douche and playing sloppy. If someone plays bad and they, like, you can see they get cocky. There's all these things in poker. Like, they get on a roll, and you can tell they won a big hand, and now the next hand, they have bullshit, and they go all in. It's because they were on a roll and they weren't the master of their emotion. And then they lose. And you're like. And I'll say out loud, get the fuck out of here, that you deserve that. Like, I'm mad at them.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Here's my final thought on poker, because I don't want to Be a bore if you grew up in a family where no one was saying how they actually feel. Did I say this last time? I don't think poker is your game because the whole skill is you're acting weird, right? Someone's pretending to have a good hand and you can just tell they have a bad hand.

[Krista Tippett]

Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

That's what it's like being a highly sensitive person. Not just with my family, with everyone I've ever known.

[Krista Tippett]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

They act like they're okay, you're not okay. Or they act like they're not okay. They're kind of shielding. And it's like, did you just get a oral sex? You know, oral pleasure. And that is. So you're watching these highly sensitive. They're always kind of a little spectrumy. Maybe they all look like, you know, cologne.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah, they look like cologne. They look like cologne, goatees and cologne.

[Pete Holmes]

And they're just kind of. And a lot of them are 22 and they're millionaires. And I'm just sort of like, wow. Then we're back to my speedrunning thing. I'm like, I bet in high school people, your teachers punched you in the face like everyone fucking hated you. And now you have $75,000 in cash in your dumb fucking acid washed jeans.

[Krista Tippett]

Wow. I mean, that's a really interesting way to describe poker. That has made me interested in it in the first for.

[Pete Holmes]

Why does he know.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

When you. My favorite thing is a good call. Again, this is almost over somebody. So it's. It's hold them obviously. And you can see their hole cards. You know what they have. And someone who has been playing well and has had cards, meaning, like you are kind of tracking unconsciously their luck. Are they due like. Or. This guy never plays unless he has a good game. So someone who is winning a lot, he goes all in. And he's played it exactly how you would play it if you had two aces. He did everything they call it representing. He represented two aces and they call it a continuation bet. He has 2 7. But he bets again and again. He keeps raising it. He's doing everything someone with two aces would do. This guy has two sixes and he calls it for his whole stack. All of his money.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Nothing makes me happier.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because I go, that's right, you fucking bitch. That's what I do. I couldn't be more into it when someone. It's like standing up to a bully. It's one of the reasons I'm not great at poker, because I don't like being Bullied. I think I'm pretty good at it, but I have a. I have an ego about it and I'm like, you're not gonna bully me. But when someone has a sixth sense and just goes like, I don't know why, but something in the tilt of your head lets me. And tells. Like someone looks at their chips. If they. If they look at their cards and then they look at their chips, that's a tell. Because they're thinking about how much they're gonna bet. Wow. And someone with a bad hand and they bet too quickly, too much. Like, why would you bet that much? If you wanted me to call you? You don't want me to call you. You're having a bad day, dad, aren't you? Like, that's the game of the highly sensitive.

[Krista Tippett]

It really is. It totally is.

[Pete Holmes]

I think you could get into it.

[Krista Tippett]

I think I could maybe.

[Pete Holmes]

You certainly don't need to. But it's.

[Krista Tippett]

I don't know if I would like playing it, but I. I might get into watching it.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, you have to be mean. A little mean to play it.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You have to want to.

[Krista Tippett]

I don't like the conflict of it.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that's why. But I do. It gives me like a healthy. Not to be gender normative, but it gives me like a healthy way to kind of let out some of that aggression of like. Like when I play cards and someone doesn't believe me and I have it. That's also an amazing feeling. You're like, oh, you thought I was full of shit, but papaya, it feels great. But it's also a really fun feeling when you lose because you're. You're really alive.

[Krista Tippett]

Sucks, but you're alive, right? Yeah. I mean, I do like games.

[Pete Holmes]

I would love for Leela to see. I was thinking about this, that I have some recurring thing with friends, so I would love to have some sort of poker night.

[Krista Tippett]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That she could then play in.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah, that would be cute.

[Pete Holmes]

Because this is like one of those cultural things we don't have, the indoctrinating the child. So poker is so clearly a grown up thing. And you let Lela play and you teach her. Honestly, cunning sounds so bad, but it's like you teach them to be mindful. Like sometimes you watch somebody make a terrible call and then they interview them afterwards and they're like, I thought I saw something. Like, it wasn't just. I'm not an idiot.

[Krista Tippett]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

I thought I saw something and I was wrong. I thought I saw a flash of weakness or insecurity or something. I'm all about it. Look how juiced I am.

[Krista Tippett]

I know. You really are juiced. There was a cute little season in my life where my brother still lived at our house, so I think he was 19 and I was 14, and I would stay up and watch Conan, and he would teach me how to play poker. And like, we. I don't, I don't, I don't know if I even really remember how to play. I'm sure it would come back to me. It was Texas hold'em, though, I think.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that's also what's fun is. Is in the same way that when we go to Disneyland, we tell Lila what we're gonna do, and that gives her. Makes her calm in an overwhelming situation. Poker is like, no. A full house beats us straight.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And you don't have to debate it.

[Krista Tippett]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

It's. It's very concrete. You did it, and, and sometimes you should have won and you didn't. And you just watch these, these people dealing with the complicated feelings of life. You played it perfectly and you lost.

[Krista Tippett]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

They call it getting sucked out. You got. I know that sounds dirty, but it's like you got sucked out. They call it. I know. They call it the swings, too. Like the ups and the downs. It's like people quit playing poker because they can't handle the swings to line in rounders.

[Krista Tippett]

Oh.

[Pete Holmes]

Some people can't handle the swings anyway.

[Krista Tippett]

Wow. All right.

[Pete Holmes]

We don't have a lot of time.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah. But. Okay, the last one on your algo, which I don't think has much nuggets on a rant. Yeah. Thank you for knowing. What I meant is a pitch meeting.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, yeah. Ryan George, you love pitch meetings. Well, I don't have time to watch movies and Pitch Meeting because you're watching.

[Krista Tippett]

So much poker and video.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, what am I going to do? Throw on a cinematic experience while I don't. You could be down in 10 minutes. You could be down in 35. Of course, I know you understand, but I'm not going to throw on a movie. And when you and I watch a movie, we watch it in two parts. It's not quite the experience the director intended.

[Krista Tippett]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

So we usually watch things we've already seen any. Who's a Woozle? Oh, the water's here.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. So Ryan George has this series called Pitch Meeting, which I've actually told some of my screenwriter friends about. And sometimes they've written movies that he kind of parodies like.

[Krista Tippett]

Oh, really? Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I, I, I send. I Don't send it to them. But I'm like, if you're curious. But they always know. They know the plot holes in their own movies.

[Krista Tippett]

Totally. Yeah. And he's. I. It's interesting because there is a way where I think initially, when I was watching those videos, like, you know, in my periphery while you were watching them, I was like, oh, this is, like, really snarky. Like, anybody can tear anything apart.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Krista Tippett]

Like, that's not that impressive. But the more I've seen it, the more I'm like, for some reason that's not really. Because it's literally like he's doing every movie, basically.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Krista Tippett]

Even, like the most beloved. Like, you get a sense that that. That evens the playing field where you're just like, right. Life is imperfect.

[Pete Holmes]

I think it's clear that he loves movies, but it also. I don't know. I won't do a full rant, but I think if you're not going to watch a movie, but you want to know what. What it is and what's funny about it.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah, it's.

[Pete Holmes]

It's worth watching because he points out everything that's. That's sort of wrong about it, but in a very funny way.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

All right, so real quick, after what. What I think is an overdue light, nice, silly episode, I just want to say. So yesterday I was feeling so chunked and stodgy and blocked. Literally blocked, like my whole life, hand in head. Head in hand just seemed so paralytically overwhelming. I just couldn't do it. And what's the difference? Well, I did therapy today and, you know, often you don't even want to do it. Like, a lot of times I'm like, I just want to cancel.

[Krista Tippett]

Just get into it. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'm like, anyway. But it's parts work. It's internal family systems. And we're sitting down and, you know, you never know what's going to happen. And we just went there and this is the breakthrough. I've always thought of my family growing up as these four orbs. Maybe I've even said that on the show there was no enmeshment.

[Krista Tippett]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

It was like mom was her own little planet. Dad was his own little planet. I was my own little planet, my brother. And we were completely separate. And we were just kind of in the house, and I was looking for my time to, like, go out and prove myself.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And we've talked about the fighting and the sort of stuff that was in my childhood. And then today we just got in touch with my. I Was talking to my child self, like my seven year old self. And it was really beautiful. It was just kind of what you always do, like approaching a deer with berries in your hand. It's always just like, I understand you and I love you and I respect you and I'm not trying to change you or get rid of you or it's all this like love, love, love, love, love, like active love. And then really with a good heap of a good quart of doubt that it's not going to work. Being like, can you tell me about yourself? Can you tell me what your experience is? Like, I realize I've had this interpretation of my childhood as like we were these four separate things. And again, my parents didn't really get along. We've covered that. And so there it was a routine thing. We would go to our rooms and there would be like, you know, fireworks. And I was like, bad fireworks.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah, not good.

[Pete Holmes]

And then today he answered me and you know, I didn't get the full download, but like some images came back. The routineness of my father pulling in the gravel driveway and us going upstairs without saying anything, that was very clear. But then here's, here's the thing. I'm not just trying to bum everybody out. There was, there was a breakthrough and I was like, oh my God. He was showing me that it's actually the opposite. That it wasn't four entities, that it was me, the whole thing was me. So if there was something in our family that was broken or twisted, I'm broken, I'm twisted. I'm yelling at mom. Mom's yelling at me like it's me. And then I go out into the world so urgently to tap dance because I feel not just broke, but twisted is the right word. Like, like, like wrong. And that explains so much of my personality to go. And I like my personality. I'm just saying I would go out and be like, I'm not twisted, right? Check out this magic trick, you know what I mean? Because it was the opposite. It wasn't. I had no sense as a child. My parents are fighting. My parents don't get along. It was me. It was one membrane. And it was the opposite of four separate things. It was one thing. And everything that happened was a reflection on me. And that's why to this day, it started because my dad texted me something sweet today. And on one very surface level, you can just be like, that's very nice. And then you're like, but also, why does that mean so much? And when he text me something that's like an ask or something, like he's asking for something. Why is that so challenging? Why do I feel like I have to do it? It's because there's still parts of me that feels completely identified, entangled with that setup. And you can't see clearly. That's why we always say, I don't live there anymore. But the reason you don't is because when you were there, you didn't even have autonomy then. It was you downstairs. I don't mean in a non dual, highfalutin, philosophical way. I mean, I'm like, that's me. Everything that happens in this house is me.

[Krista Tippett]

You were enmeshed with it all, and.

[Pete Holmes]

It'S a reflection on me.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And there were parts of that system that were deeply broken. And then that leads to me being like, I am deeply broken. I'm twisted, I'm dirty. Oh, and the shame. So much shame that, like, it seems like you watch movies and people are dipping people and kissing and dancing and laughing, and I'm just like, what? And like. And, you know. So you're, like, embarrassed and all of this stuff. And I was like, I know this is maybe. Feels like an overshare, but I'm like, I want to shout it from the roofs because all I'm trying to do is like summoning salt smelling, salt myself into reality and go, that wasn't true then.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And that isn't true now. And the only strategy I have is to speak it and repeat it and include you, include the listeners. If this is applicable to your journey. It's like, let's talk about it. Let's not be ashamed. A little kid was confused and thought. Thought, I am this.

[Krista Tippett]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And then you have to be like, you are not that. And then you go like, but I am, though. And it's like, well, let's keep talking about it then, because you don't believe me yet.

[Krista Tippett]

Right. And I'll just keep telling. And I'll just keep telling you holding the light.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, exactly.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's an I'm sorry, Val.

[Pete Holmes]

We'Re out of time.

[Krista Tippett]

An incredibly relatable thing. Like, I think when they're especially complex trauma, which we've talked about, or complex ptsd, where it's just so disorienting more than anything, because it's not like one big event that then you can contextualize and say, this one big event happened and I am traumatized from it. It's tiny. You know, it's night after night running up the stairs when you're dead. Pulls into the driveway and like, not knowing that that's trauma until you're in your 40s, you know, and, like, all of the years of. Of disorientation and, like, confusion that that causes. So there's sort of that, like, that. The child self feeling that, like, not knowing why. Why things feel so bad.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Krista Tippett]

And. And also it is, like, in a child's nature to just assume that everything is their fault. I don't know, it might be, you know, a biological response to not being abandoned, but it's like, we take. We take. The children will take everything on, so. Oh, that's what it is. I've heard it explained this way where it's better. It's better to assume that you are flawed as the child than to assume that the people who are in charge of your survival are flawed.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, wow.

[Krista Tippett]

That's far more dangerous for a child to believe. So they will make.

[Pete Holmes]

This is somehow my fault.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah, yeah. They will make their parents right at all costs, and the cost is usually making them the wrong one. So your parents are fighting. It was. It would be way more dangerous for you at that time to admit that these people aren't, you know, totally conscious and enlightened. That could be true.

[Pete Holmes]

That could be true.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, you're right.

[Krista Tippett]

For you to be like, this is. This is somehow on me. I'm doing this. I'm bad.

[Pete Holmes]

Right, Right.

[Krista Tippett]

So the enmeshment makes perfect sense. And yeah, you're so right that the. The game of it is, if for lack of a better term, is to, like, just keep showing up to your child self and saying, like, that's not.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Krista Tippett]

Where we are anymore.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Krista Tippett]

And it wasn't true then, and it's not true now.

[Pete Holmes]

Just over and over and over and.

[Krista Tippett]

Over until it believes you. Which, honestly, I have experienced. Of course, I still get really dysregulated and confused sometimes and. And will be pulled into my child self. But I really feel like my relationship with my child self. Over the last six years of really steady trauma therapy, my relationship with my child self has changed, where she's sort of relaxed back, and even when she starts to get all worked up, there's like a shorthand. Like, she just. She believes my adult self more.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, same.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because I had a moment and there was a desire to respond with anger, and I was like, I got it.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And the impulse still is there, but you're just like, yes, thank you. Yeah, appreciate that.

[Krista Tippett]

And there was a time early on when I was first of all. I couldn't get my child self to come out and trust me to talk to me, even for, like, a year. And, I mean, she had been so exiled that she didn't really trust it. And then. And then it felt like there were a couple more years of, like. I'm trying to tell her that she's safe, but she doesn't believe me. But I'm just gonna keep trying to tell her that, you know, I get some of that. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

There's certain parts that are, like, all right.

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Is that what we have to say to get out of this? It's like, crowd work. What do you do? I'm a waiter. Is that what you need? Like what?

[Krista Tippett]

Yeah, right. Yeah. Yep. Well, good work as usual. Very, very proud of you.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, thanks, Val.

[Krista Tippett]

Hello, darkness, my old friend. It felt like you went into it.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I wasn't. I was reading what I wrote on that note. Why does it say Black Friday? Oh, these are notes, I think, only wanted stored special. I think these are just things I have to do. Anyway, one of them is Black Friday. I don't know.

[Krista Tippett]

Did you write that when you were. We got our Black Friday sale.

[Pete Holmes]

Maybe. I don't know.

[Krista Tippett]

The generator. That's right. We have a generator. And we're country folk now. That's right. All right, babies.

[Pete Holmes]

We let the raccoon run it.

[Krista Tippett]

Our raccoon. Well, thanks for listening, everybody.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Loved it. Needed it.

[Krista Tippett]

Loved it. Needed it. And go ahead and keep it crispy.