We Made It Weird #243

Summary

You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes

Episode: We Made It Weird #243
Date: March 6, 2026
Guests: Pete Holmes (B), Valerie (A)

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Overview:

This episode of We Made It Weird with Pete Holmes and his wife/creative partner, Valerie, dives into the micro and macro dynamics of their relationship—focusing especially on the “dust ups” or small conflicts that illuminate childhood patterns, psychological defense mechanisms, and the vulnerability required for true adult connection. Mixing personal stories, humor, and genuine self-reflection, Pete and Val explore themes of abandonment, anger, repair, role-modeling from parents, and the way childhood wounds can show up in adult partnerships. The tone is sincere, self-deprecating, and playful, with both hosts riffing on their "weird" quirks and the meta-awareness that draws their fans.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights:

1. Relational Dynamics and Interruptions

• Riffs on Interrupting
  • Pete and Val joke about Pete’s tendency to interject during stories (“It’s not an interruption, it’s an interjection with consent,” Pete, 04:57).
  • Valerie shares her process when telling a story and how interruptions can sometimes throw her off, especially when caffeinated and “beautiful minding” her storytelling (07:06).
  • They reflect on how their differing communication styles play out, with Valerie outlining and Pete improvising.

2. Physiological Responses to Social Anxiety

• Blushing, Heat & Embarrassment:
  • Pete describes the physical sensation—“there’s a chemical reaction...it produces a heat...if you embarrass...don’t you take your jacket off?” (11:29–12:37).
  • They riff on the idea of yogis and monks controlling body temperature through mind, but also root this in the everyday—like getting hot with embarrassment or social anxiety.

3. Therapy Wisdom and Emotional Triggers

• Conflict Origin:

  • Pete introduces a recent "dust up" (minor argument), revealing how deeper wounds manifest in surface-level conflicts, particularly in public/social settings (16:06 onward).
  • “If I feel ignored I will start really freaking out, like, acting up...” (17:08—Pete).

• Underneath the Anger: Abandonment Wound

  • Through therapy, Pete identifies that beneath his anger or annoyance is the old childhood wound: “If I was being in my absolute vulnerable truth: don’t abandon me.” (41:27).
  • He explains how his mom's ever-presence in childhood defined love for him, leading to sensitivity when Val energetically “leaves” in social situations (46:06–47:31).
  • Anger is identified as a “mask feeling;” the real emotion is sadness or vulnerability, which is often painted over with a more “acceptable” reaction (40:31–41:12).

4. How Childhood Conditioning Informs Relationships

• Code-switching & Mirroring in Social Situations:

  • Valerie relates to Pete’s discomfort when she “mirrors” friends or adopts their way of speaking, which can make Pete feel abandoned or like Val is not “herself” (43:01–43:56).
  • They analyze the healthy vs. unhealthy forms of code-switching/co-created friendship identities.

• Playful Therapy-Speak:

  • “Don’t abandon me, Mommy,” Pete jokes about the Freudian roots of his response (49:53).
  • The couple gently mocks and then sincerely applies pop-psychology, therapy insights, and somatic approaches to their own lives.

5. Repair, Apologies, and Processing Styles

• Post-Conflict Repair:
  • They detail the awkward aftermath of a fight, including apologies, timing, and the difference in processing speeds (“You burn white hot, and then get into repair way quicker. Whereas I am like a slower roll into ‘I’m upset about this.’” Val, 54:39).
  • Pete sometimes feels compelled to apologize repeatedly, partly to invite apology in return and as a subconscious bid for reassurance/love (54:09–54:39).
  • The gendered and personal differences in emotional processing are discussed with respect—Pete as quick-to-anger, quick-to-apologize; Valerie as slow-burning but slower to process and forgive.

6. Gender, Vulnerability, and Social Space

• Primal Scream Story:

  • Pete shares a story from a retreat where a movement class asked participants to express dysregulation. He, as one of the few men, gives a real “primal yell,” only to feel he overdid it and was not “yes, anded” by the group—leading to embarrassment and feeling out of place (63:51–66:41).
  • Valerie connects with this, sharing her own experience of vulnerability through a primal scream in the desert, which led to a vocal injury (73:23–74:20).

• Validation and Perception:

  • Valerie reframes Pete’s embarrassment, pointing out the difference between how something feels internally vs. how it is perceived externally, a recurring lesson in self-compassion.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps):

• On Surfacing Childhood Patterns:

  • “If I was being in my absolute vulnerable truth: don’t abandon me.” — Pete (41:27)

• Pete’s Masking of Vulnerability:

  • “There is something genius about my unconscious, which is that you have a feeling...and instantly...paint over it with a more acceptable reaction, which is anger.” — Pete (41:11)

• On Mirroring and Authenticity:

  • “When you mirror other people...then you’re abandoning me.” — Pete (43:01)
  • “There are other friends where we have a version that we talk like together that was sort of co-created.” — Val (43:49)

• On Gender, Vulnerability, and Group Spaces:

  • “I couldn’t have felt more like a guy....I overdid it. It’s the nightmare of interpretive dance. Oh no, I’ve shown too much.” — Pete (66:16)
  • “It felt more awful and vulnerable for you because you were in this squishy feminine space which the patriarchy has told us rage does not belong in....And you were authentic and vulnerable and brave to show a shadow part of you.” — Val (66:45)

• On Emotional Repair and Apology:

  • “I flip quicker than you do. I burn white hot, and then you get into repair way quicker. Whereas I am like a slower roll into, ‘I’m upset about this.’” — Val (54:39)

• Meta as Relationship Healing:

  • “How you felt and how it was received are completely different realities.” — Val (69:39)

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Memorable Comic Moments:

• Water on the Carpet:
  • Pete’s stories about disrespecting carpet and spilling water in a fancy hotel: “I look at carpet as a big rolled out paper towel sponge.” — Pete (18:59)
• Lightsaber Riffs:
  • Pete and Val riff on Star Wars lightsabers and Pete’s colorblindness: “I’m colorblind, but I’m pretty sure it’s green.” — Pete (05:39)

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Timestamps for Main Segments:

• Interruptions, Storytelling, and Social Styles: 04:04–07:34
• Physiological Reactions (Sweating/Heat): 11:29–13:16
• The “Dust Up” Story & Relationship Repair: 16:06–54:01 (includes therapy insights, apologies, money anxiety, parent modeling, emotional repair)
• Gender & Vulnerability at Retreats (Primal Scream): 63:40–72:00
• Validating Inner Experience vs. External Perception: 66:43–69:39

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Summary & Takeaways:

This episode is a masterclass in self-aware relational humor, with both hosts dissecting the small and large moments of marital discord and intimacy. Pete and Val show how “weirdness,” vulnerability, and real healing happen not in grand gestures but in the everyday: a friend’s retreat invitation, a spilled drink, an ill-timed joke, a primal yell. Their openness about therapy, anger, abandonment, and the awkwardness of needing one another is both hilarious and deeply relatable. The episode ends on a note of compassion, affirming both the weird child parts inside us all, and the strength of bringing these quirks into the daylight with someone who cares.

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Final Memorable Exchange:

“Don’t abandon me, Mommy.” — Pete (49:53)
“You’re my mommy.”
“Okay, but I’m not my mom!” — Val (50:05)
Mutual laughter, love, and, as always: “Keep it crispy.”

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This summary covers all major discussion threads and provides a rich snapshot for listeners who want the heart, humor, and psychological insight of We Made It Weird #243 without missing the episode’s weird-yet-wise soul.

Transcript

[A]

You made it with. You made it with.

[B]

You made it with.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

You made it with. Yes, you made it weird. You made it weird with Pete Holmes.

[A]

What's happening, weirdos?

[B]

What's happening?

[A]

Here you go. Here's a podcast.

[B]

This one's awesome.

[A]

Yeah, It's a real relationship. E1.

[B]

I loved every site.

[A]

People like it. I think they like to. To see bts.

[B]

BTS of a TL True love.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I love this episode. I sometimes joke that, like, the insights that we share that I garner from Jennifer. No, from.

[A]

But I Garnier.

[B]

I Garnier from Fructis. No, I share stuff that I got from my therapist and your therapist and like the combined total of these professionals.

[A]

We got quite a team.

[B]

I know. And it's expensive. And I love giving that wisdom. Not that anybody owes us anything saying, like, it's so fun.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To share it. And this is one of those episodes where there's a lot of. You're going to make a little money. Everybody listening. You're going to make a little bit of money in your bank account before looking after you just made a little bit of money.

[A]

Just a little bit of money. I'm talking a couple of cents.

[B]

Just a lunch. Just a lunch.

[A]

Just a lunch is like 3 cents.

[B]

So there's riffs and there's realness. And we're glad you're here. And if, I don't know, maybe you don't like the spiritual stuff. It's not. It's not very spiritual.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Psychological.

[A]

Psychological.

[B]

Sexological.

[A]

High five.

[B]

Hit it. We're glad you're here. I'm on tour. Oh, my special. When's that come out? March 24th.

[A]

March 24th, baby.

[B]

It's a. It's available for. You can watch it now if you. If you don't mind paying. You can pay for a pre. Watch it. Go to PeteHomes.com. there's a link there. Also, this Saturday, I'm at Largo, Los Angeles and Royal Oak, Michigan. Tallahassee, Florida. I think that's like a college show. Early Irving, Texas. Madison, Wisconsin. Denver, Colorado, North Carolina, South Carolina, Vancouver. That's like a big outdoor festival with Jeselnik and Pete Davidson.

[A]

We'll go because it's in the summer.

[B]

Fun. I meant that it sounded fake, though.

[A]

It did.

[B]

Fun.

[A]

Oh, Pete Davidson will be there. I'll go. It's in the summer.

[B]

Wow. Great to meet you. Yeah. I can't do them.

[A]

I don't.

[B]

I. Seattle and Portland. Portland already sold out. Thanks. Portland.

[A]

Portland. You know what? We've always loved you.

[B]

We love you. And we added a second show, so that's. That's the best part.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So there's a late show for Portland now. All right, everybody, thank you for being here. Valerie, my true love, thank you for being here.

[A]

Thank you for being here. And everybody also, thank you for being here.

[B]

Too many. Thank you for being here.

[A]

Yeah. All right, go ahead, get into it.

[B]

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[A]

Hey there, it's Julia Louis Dreyfus. I'm back with a new season of Wiser Than Me, the show where I sit down with remarkable older women and soak up their stories, their humor, and their hard earned wisdom. Every conversation leaves me a little smarter and definitely more inspired. And yes, I'm still calling my 91 year old mom Judy to get her take on it all. Wiser Than Me from Lemonada Media is out now, wherever you get your podcasts.

[B]

Have we done that before? That's a funny burn.

[A]

What?

[B]

That's Pete Holmes warming up before a stand up show. Me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me.

[A]

It's Pete warming up for a dinner party.

[B]

It's true.

[A]

No.

[B]

What did I do today? Oh, you were telling a story and I was ruining it.

[A]

No, you weren't ruining it.

[B]

I didn't ruin it. I loved hearing you. Well, yeah, but I mean, like, I loved hearing you tell it. As I interrupt you to say that. Shut up. Shut up. I love the way you told it.

[A]

I rarely get

[B]

limelight fever.

[A]

No, pinched about you interrupting me. I mean, obviously, because if I did,

[B]

if it was your leaf blower, like the way I feel about leaf blowers

[A]

and people feel that way. Like, I have friends who are like, they cannot stand to be interrupted.

[B]

Look, I just did a podcast. May I just interject? It's not an interruption, it's an interjection with consent. I did a podcast. I won't even say when, but this week and it was fine, but I noticed, I was like, oh, you're not one of us. You're not like a kinetic you're not like a fucking live wire. Yeah, two live wires. And you're one too. It's like lightsabers. I'm red. You're like Luke Green. Luke Green. Luke Green.

[A]

Luke Green.

[B]

Luke Green.

[A]

Luke Green.

[B]

Luke Green. Luke Green. This is like what? Luke's lightsaber is green.

[A]

I think it's blue.

[B]

Well, I'm colorblind, but I'm pretty sure it's green.

[A]

I'm.

[B]

You are blue.

[A]

Green. Colorblind.

[B]

I know I am.

[A]

Colin. I'm pretty sure it's blue.

[B]

Luke's lightsaber. I'm so sure it's green. Is green.

[A]

Okay, who's this blue? Somebody's as blue.

[B]

Yeah, because it all went the way. Look, I'd love to be involved. George Lucas. I know you. Listen, get me in the fold.

[A]

George Lucas. And he named his protagonist Luke.

[B]

George Lucas. Luke.

[A]

He did it. He's like, me, me, me, me, me, me, me.

[B]

Who's the. Who's the leader? George. No, it's too obvious. Lucas. No, too obvious. Luke.

[A]

Well, it is Lucas, but they call

[B]

him Luke for shy. Luke Lucas. George Lucas Walker. I spit.

[A]

Yeah, you did. Anyway, we just. I don't. I don't mind.

[B]

Mind the interjection sometimes.

[A]

Sometimes I mind when you talk exactly as I'm talking. Well, baby, but you. And this is about to happen as you take a s and chug the whole thing. Actually, we were at coffee with our friends and I. There's always a moment where it turns where I think we both get caffeinated. And when you're caffeinated, I mean, just imagine.

[B]

Yeah, well, I know this is my second of the day.

[A]

Yeah, but I'm just saying. So I was trying to tell the

[B]

story the first of the day.

[A]

And I think the reason it was bothering me that you were interrupting for the story because I had the whole thing outlined in my mind.

[B]

I realized that hit this point, hit

[A]

this point, hit this point. And then the punchline is this.

[B]

But I thought you were freestyling.

[A]

And of course you were, but you were telling a story.

[B]

You were mindfully freestyling. You were like thinking ahead.

[A]

But because I was caffeinated, I was beautiful minding that shit. And then you were jumping in and jumping the order that I had in my mind.

[B]

No, I know, I know.

[A]

And so I made a stinker comment about like, well, I could have told that story and 10 seconds, but. And like. And I wish. And I instantly wished I hadn't. I was embarrassed because our friends are like, we don't care and then I'm like, this is like. You know what it's like? It feels like when I was a kid, my brother, because I had an older brother and still do, and, you know, we mention him a lot, would, like, punch me. Just the classic thing, like, punch me in the car. And then I would retaliate and I would get caught retaliating.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it was sort of like I acted out in an immature way, and then it kind of became about that, and I got embarrassed where it's like, we. And it's like. And then I'm like, but wait, I love Pete. Like, I see you guys loving Pete. I've put myself in the position to be the one that isn't loving him in this moment.

[B]

No, there's a. There's a gear. And I know it, and I don't know it too well, but I know when you're making fun of me, and I absolutely am. Dracula dead and loving it every time. Except we did have a little stink up this week. Week.

[A]

What was it?

[B]

Which I think is worth mentioning.

[A]

I don't remember it.

[B]

I'm gonna tell. I'm gonna tell it. Let's have it.

[A]

A stink up that I knew about.

[B]

Some more conversations.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That's from one of my favorite movies, The Assassination of Jesse James by the coward Robert Ford. And yes, you have to say the whole title.

[A]

Yeah, you do. And it is. I will confirm, a fantastic.

[B]

Oh, you like it?

[A]

I love that movie.

[B]

I didn't. I don't remember you liking it. I don't remember you not liking it.

[A]

I mean, I've never asked to watch it.

[B]

And you never will, but I watched

[A]

it with you at least twice, and I loved it both times.

[B]

There's a genre. There's a whole slew of movies that were just so fun to get drunk to.

[A]

Oh, my God. Totally.

[B]

Like a drinking buddy. People are like, you need a good drinking buddy. And I'm like, have you seen my Blu Rays?

[A]

One of my best alcohol memories. And again, I'm like, I barely drink. And you don't at all. And that's perfect for right now in this season of Life. But I. When Trump got elected the first time.

[B]

What?

[A]

We. Our friend Joe derosa came over.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And we drank whiskey neat. I remember maybe it was probably on the rocks and. And watched Inglourious Basterds. And it was so right.

[B]

It was really right.

[A]

So right.

[B]

It felt nice. Yeah, it felt nice. I don't. I didn't. I. I'm so glad we don't have to talk about it. I'm often troubled how my memory works. I'm like, I, I. That comes back to me, but I didn't have it. I wonder if Joe remembers that. I mean, we drank a lot.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

We just did an edit and then we didn't. We never do edits.

[A]

We never do edits.

[B]

But we just came back anyway. Who cares?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What was I saying? Oh, yeah, yeah. More conversations. The dust up that we had.

[A]

Yes. So tell me about it, because I

[B]

don't remember it, by the way. The edit was because I got nervous about something you said. And I've had this, like, sketch idea. I'm not gonna do it. I think it's kind of dumb. But, like, when that happened, my body produces, like, there's a chemical reaction that my body, if I'm understanding this correctly, has oversimplifying part A and part B of a reaction in two separate, you know, gel tabs made out of me. Like, the membrane is just me. Shit. And there's just like, here's DayQuil. Here's NyQuil. And then my thought, oh, no. I don't know if we should say that or I don't know if I should say. Whatever activates. The thought goes into my. It starts in my stomach. And the two nyquil, dayquil, like organic occurring chemicals, mash together and produce. This is again, just my understanding, produce a heat. It will make me hot.

[A]

Really?

[B]

You know this. Haven't you ever said something at a party and then found out the person is like a couple feet behind you?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Don't you take your jacket off?

[A]

Yes, but I guess where you get hot, where's the gel?

[B]

All I'm saying is that was.

[A]

Where's the cream filling?

[B]

That was my dumb wish of saying there's a chemical reaction.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

Your body is triggering a response.

[A]

I thought there was, like, one that believed one thing in the other.

[B]

Oh, no, no, no, no. That was unclear. I mean, literally in the cells. Doctor can help us out here, but, like, something happens that adrenalizes you. And one of the things, probably adrenaline. Adrenaline, yeah. No, I know, but one of the things adrenaline does, if this is adrenaline, is. Heats you up.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So my idea for escape, like, I do this all the time. Like, a good example is me worrying about you coming off the wrong way and I get hot. I wanted to take my jacket off, so I was like, they should, like, North Face should make a jacket that when you're cold, it is like, hey, you said something and your mom heard it. Your phone was on in the car and you're just like, you get hot.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Like, we could, like. I know that's just a dumb idea. You can tell why I wouldn't do it. But, like, there. It's fucking stupid. But, like, next time you get hot, whatever it is that makes you hot, just pause and notice that your body can do something that makes you hot. So much so that there are purportedly yogis. You're picturing it, right? Very skinny Indian guy in the mountains that would meditate and melt the snow around them. Like, they would find that system. They're cold. They're in the mountains. I'm going to make myself hot. And they would do it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The other extreme example of this is the monk that lit himself on fire in protest of the Vietnam War. He was like, okay, there'll be pain, but I'm going to go over here. Like, there's intense.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Mind control.

[A]

Yeah. Well, I. I bet don't try this at home. I'd bet people are, in general, not totally even aware of their bodies enough to know, like, I get hot when that kind of thing happens.

[B]

I agree, but I. I not. That's it. That's another reason why it just doesn't work. But I. It happens to me a lot, but people get.

[A]

I think it does happen to varying degrees. Like, it doesn't happen to me a ton, but. But I know there. That's like what blushing is. People's faces burn. Like, this is a. This is a thing.

[B]

If you embarrass. I guess maybe I'm embarrassing myself more than the average bear.

[A]

I mean, I was gonna say that,

[B]

but you were more than the average bear.

[A]

Yeah, I was going to say, I think you.

[B]

I thought you were going to use the phrase, oh, more than average, which really grossed me out.

[A]

Oh, no, I wasn't going to say that.

[B]

There is a line that I don't want to cross. And more than the average bear is just on the other side of it.

[A]

Right. I do. And that's the thing that I said that we edited out strangely. And then you just said it.

[B]

Very good. Here's the dust up.

[A]

No, wait. But the one thing I was going to say, because you said one of the ways that you could feel that way is being afraid that I'm coming off wrong. Is that, like, this was the only example of that, or do you have other examples of that? Of feeling that way, being protective of you?

[B]

It's happened a couple times on this podcast.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Usually if we edit something out, believe it or not, it's me worrying that you're gonna sound a certain way.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And not even a. I don't even want to talk, but, like, it's usually me being overly thoughtful, but. Or paranoid.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so thoughtful. Wait, paranoid? Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Sounding a certain way means generally having some sort of, like, I would say, political opinion.

[B]

I. Yeah. Okay. You want to leave it in?

[A]

No, I'm just saying that, like, political

[B]

opinion, otherwise, I think could be viewed as, like, hostile. You know, like. Like what happened to the Tenacious D guy.

[A]

Yeah, sure.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's where I get it. Yeah.

[A]

No, I'm just explaining it so that it doesn't.

[B]

You're allowed to have I Europe. That's great.

[A]

I. I think that speaks to how. I do appreciate you being protective of me in that way, but I think it does speak to how highly ranked I am in your own mind and in general, I think people don't really give a. What I say.

[B]

I think that's fair. Yeah. And I'm probably. I'm.

[A]

But I. I think airing on the side of caution is great.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. What's the dust up? Because I don't know.

[B]

I've lost all my energy.

[A]

Oh, my God. Well, that's not my fault.

[B]

That's true. In another way, it is your fault. I'm just kidding. I'm completely joking. The dust up, you'll remember. And the reason I want to bring it up, not to, you know, set the table too much here, is because it ended up being incredibly helpful for me. So it's not just to, like, you

[A]

know, dredge up a little bit.

[B]

Dredge it up. Wasn't even that bad.

[A]

I can't even remember what it was set up.

[B]

If I'm gonna be activated. I might even say triggered. If I'm gonna be triggered.

[A]

Oh, I remember.

[B]

The setup is always gonna be you and a girlfriend.

[A]

I know.

[B]

At dinner.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And we went into that. Pretty brazen. We've talked about the other times this happens, but I have so much more clarity on it now. Cause I really like the day after it happened, I had therapy. So this is really, I think, very valuable insight if you're anything like me. So I get really tight. The. The other example was we don't even have to talk about. We were at dinner, you and a girlfriend. If I feel ignored.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I will start really freaking out, like, acting up. But let's talk about the new one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I don't really remember that. The specifics. Too much of that one. But I remember this one. We're at this Meal. And I want to start by saying I'm at a 10 out of 10 good mood. I've been reading my John Wheeler.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And having, like, incredible. I don't even know how to put it, but, like, feeling like, oh, I think I see. I think. I think I see myself so feeling incredibly peaceful and happy and just kind of walking around laughing and singing and. And it really doesn't feel too linked to the circumstance of my life. I just kind of feel good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Although the circumstances, my life are also good. So we go to this meal, and before this little dust up, like, I'm like, I do a bit where I'm pouring Leela some water and I just pour it all over the table. I think this is a classic.

[A]

There's a classic.

[B]

It's a classic. And I know grownups that it would drive them crazy.

[A]

Yeah, I know.

[B]

One time I watched an apple in a movie theater and I just poured water on it and let the water hit the ground. And the woman next to me went, that's disrespectful to the theater. She was alone, too.

[A]

I mean, that's not insane for her to say that.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

I mean, I. Disrespectful. I both love that you did that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I understand why she said.

[B]

I don't think I was like, wa.

[A]

But I'm like, no, you're being a little bit. A bit much cheeky when you're doing that. Like, somebody is going to have to mop that up.

[B]

No, it was carpet.

[A]

Oh, all right. But still, I was picturing it, like, running down the aisle.

[B]

I wouldn't have done it if it was down the aisles.

[A]

But you also don't really respect piso mojado.

[B]

Piso mojado.

[A]

Also, one time when we were.

[B]

I don't respect carpet.

[A]

Yeah, you don't respect carpet.

[B]

I look at carpet as a big rolled out paper towel sponge.

[A]

You think it's a sponge? Like, mold can live under there. It's not meant to get wet and stable.

[B]

Mold is a valid life form. You respect mold. You.

[A]

One time when we were, like, having our. When we were kind of newly dating and having our romantic weekends in San Francisco, we were staying at the Four Seasons, and we had, like, a bucket of ice that had melted and you wanted to use it for something and you just threw like a. Like, like you were.

[B]

Wait, this is real?

[A]

Yes. Like, you were like an Italian. A capsizing ship. Like. Like, you. Like, it was full of water and you heaved it out of, like, in. Just onto the Carpet into the hall?

[B]

Yes. No, no, no.

[A]

Not into the public hall. Into like the little hallway.

[B]

The hall of the room.

[A]

That's right. That was a fancy ass room. I got wined and dined babies.

[B]

If you get a Val, get her a room with a hallway swashbuckle in it.

[A]

And then. And I laughed.

[B]

So.

[A]

So I loved it. I thought it was so.

[B]

I don't respect carpet.

[A]

You don't respect carpet?

[B]

Because. Look, I want to start by saying I know how I'm wrong. I. I'm pretty sure I don't know it in my bones, but I know it in my head. Yeah. It's not right. But the reason the bucket one, I have a harder time defending the apple one was like less than a. A nyquil cup of water. That was a pour of water and it just kind of dripped off. And I'm rubbing it on my shirt. You know, most of the water's going on my shirt.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But just a little splash of water.

[A]

I'm with you.

[B]

And I'm like, But like, that woman is valid. She's also at the movie alone. Again. I just can't handle how badass that is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's actually me complimenting her.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This lady's alone and she's like, hey, respect the theater. It's like that woman that was traveling alone, and there was a. There was room in between the two seats in front of her.

[A]

Yeah. And I said, told this on the bike.

[B]

Yeah. I was like, can this old lady. Literally, an old lady is trying to get her bag up and I'm helping her. And I go, can we put it. If you put this bag that's in the overhead, underneath the thing, this area that. Not where her feet would go. It's a first class seat. It's an in the middle. Nobody uses the space. And I go, if we put this bag under there, is this your bag? And she's like, yes. I go, if we put it under there, she can get her bag up. And she just goes, no. And I think about her once a week.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think about her and I think about her both ways. Like, fucking, wow.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. And actually, wow. My friend Lisa and I were just talking about this because your Dan Harris clip.

[B]

Yeah. Yes, thank you.

[A]

Yes, thank you. Came out and she and I were talking about. She brought up the really good point that it was like, yes, thank you. Is. Is so good and such a good practice. And also there's wisdom in no.

[B]

Right. It's when you're talking to yourself, though.

[A]

Yes. That's What I said, I was like,

[B]

I don't go around saying yes, thank

[A]

you to the situations. Yeah. And I said, that's exactly what he said. And I was like, if you said that to Pete, he'd be like, well, of course I'm not going to say yes, thank you to everyone. But we were saying as women, I think we are saying yes, thank you to everyone.

[B]

No, I understand.

[A]

So we're like, we're trying to learn the opposite. Yeah. No to the like.

[B]

Well, that's what I think. What's important in the story of the woman who said no to the very. In my opinion, reasonable ask.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Was that her. Her womanness is part of what made it badass.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She was like a young. If I remember correctly, pretty woman.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That it matters. I'm just painting a picture.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She was like, no.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was kind of like, it was one of those things. Like you with me. If I knew her.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And if I loved her.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, she's my dear friend. And she goes in this big oaf goes, can I put your bag. I just said, no.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I paid $3,000 for this seat. No. Mm. No. I'm sorry this old lady couldn't get on the plane sooner.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Deal with it.

[A]

You.

[B]

So, like, I would be laughing and also kind of like, that's insane. But I'm siding with you. You're my. You're my beloved friend.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So anyway, the lady that. With the thing, I always think I could have just as easily spilled this water. And I know that's insane. That's like saying the knife could have fallen in the guy that I killed. But it is, that is. I go like, this is a whoops, a doodle. Like, I just grabbed my water wrong in a small amount. Shoot.

[A]

So, yeah, I. It definitely doesn't sound like it's worth mentioning something to the person. The most you do is like, look at them and be like, in your mind, say psycho.

[B]

Well, that's. That's my. If I'm her. And by the way, as I always say to you, I'll give someone shit. Like, somebody was going through a stop sign and there was a four way stop and somebody started driving towards the car in the intersection before. Before they'd even cleared. And I went, look at this fucking driving forward before it's even cleared. And then we cleared and I went, of course that's something I would do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that is all me in a nutshell.

[A]

That's what I love about you.

[B]

But I've noticed how True. It is. If I was sitting there and a. Especially like a dopey, happy, go. Lucky tall man.

[A]

Yeah. With all of the privilege.

[B]

That's what I mean. Just strolling in, spilling water on an apple. I. But my way would be in my mind. I would light him on fire. Like, I would just, like, way worse. She's just dealing with it in real time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's not respectful to the theater. And I'm like, ah, I'd hate to know what I said. I'm sure I said something.

[A]

Oh, I wonder.

[B]

Not. Not too shitty. But I bet I was like, well, it's just carpet. And I bet she was like, yeah, but it's. You know, I. I don't think it ended there.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And I. I bet I didn't say, yeah, it's carpet. I bet I said something snarky.

[A]

Were you alone in the theater?

[B]

No. That's what's even better is I'm with, like, friends. It's a WGA screening. It was like a. You had to be in the Writer's Guild. I could find this woman.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Could look her up.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And be like, hey. And you know what? She's a writer. She probably has a screenplay.

[A]

I was gonna say that.

[B]

Enter Jackass. Spilling water. And our hero, played by Julia Roberts, goes, It's disrespectful to the theater.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then in her version, I just start crying and she's like, badass. Aaron Brockovich is back. But for movies.

[A]

She was in a movie.

[B]

No, I mean, now she's looking for justice in cinemas.

[A]

Oh, I see. Yes.

[B]

She used to care about, like, dying the water.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Now she's, like, taking it to the. To the cinemas. This episode is sponsored by Better Help March, includes International Women's Day, and it is a great reminder to celebrate the women in our lives and everything they carry at work, in relationships, in families, often all at the same time. Of course, for me, that means Val. I'm thinking a lot about Val right now. She's changed my life in about a billion different ways. As my partner, as the mother of my daughter, as a creative collaborator. And one of the things we talk a lot about on this show, if you listen, is how much therapy has changed, changed both of our lives and helped us grow. Therapy has helped us set better boundaries, understand ourselves, and show up more fully for each other and our family. And that's really the point. Women give so much to others, but they deserve support, too. If you're feeling stretched thin by the roles you play or the expectations placed on you therapy can be a space that's just for you to create balance and take care of yourself. BetterHelp has over 30,000 licensed therapists and has served more than 6 million people worldwide. They'll match you with a therapist based on your needs and if it's not the right fit, you can switch anytime. It couldn't be easier. Your emotional well being matters. Find support and feel lighter in therapy. Sign up and get 10% [e-mail] weirdo that's better. H E L p.com weirdo do you

[A]

ever find yourself scrolling through headlines, especially health headlines, and just thinking that can't be true? Well, I certainly do. 2025 brought us some ridiculous, far fetched health claims and some especially terrifying changes in public health. What's in store for us in 2026? I'm Chelsea Clinton and we're back with season two of my podcast, that Can't Be True. Follow along and catch up on season one wherever you get your podcast.

[B]

Okay, so I don't know how we got all that, but you're at this meal. Oh, I'm being silly. I'm spilling the water.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And Leela and the other two kids, they're dying. I'm like a hit. And, and I'd like to point out it wasn't about me. I was really like delighting in getting these kids laughing, tickling. I'm throwing. I'm the one that's getting up from the table and chasing them and stuff because they're bored. I wiped up the water on the table. The napkin is wet. I threw it on my face and it stuck like I was in. This is all to say I was in an incredible mood. That's what makes this so fascinating, is you then. And it's always this. Both times. It's always this. The friend says, there's this retreat in Mexico and our friend is running it. And you say, cause this is how you love people. You go, oh, I want to go. When is it?

[A]

I. I said, no. What?

[B]

I said, I'm telling the story. Go ahead.

[A]

I think that is what you heard and I think that's significant to how you reacted. What? I, I knew about the retreat and I said, I saw that there's one more spot available in that retreat. And she went, yeah, you should come. And I was like, I, I thought that, but we just were on a retreat in Mexico and we have all these trips.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then she was like, oh my God. But it would be so be so fun if you came. And then I just Went, when is it again?

[B]

Yeah. Like, this is when my world went.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm like, in the Upside down.

[A]

And when I'm saying that, there is a part of me that's like, what if for some reason I open my calendar, look in those dates, and it

[B]

says, leela, work training.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Something clicks where I'm like, oh, actually, that could be perfect, because, blah, blah. But mostly I'm just. I'm playing in the waters of, like, could you imagine how fun that would be if I went on that trip knowing, like, we've spent so much money I can't go on the Strip? Like, I know. I know that. And it's. But it's. I'm just like, I'm not ready yet to totally not live in the world where it's a possibility.

[B]

Yeah, you want to. That's how you can enjoy it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You can look forward to it and think about it, and just for a moment with your friend, imagine it. It's very fun.

[A]

Exactly. Which I do all. I realize I do that all the time. Lisa and I just did this on a phone call where we were, like, we were trying to make it work where she could come here, and then we drive to Nevada City and all these things happened, and there were like, it was obstacle after obstacle, and we had decided not to do it. And I was like, okay, then I'm gonna book my flights to come there instead. And as I'm booking my flights, we're FaceTiming. And she's like, but if your sister in law wants to come, then we get. And we're still talking about the possibilities of this other plan.

[B]

I don't know why this is kind of freaking me. Keep going.

[A]

I'm sure it's a nightmare to other people, but what's really happening is where the subtext of what we're saying is, like, wouldn't that have been fun if we could have figured that out?

[B]

Yeah, I. I feel like this is relevant. If I have, like, a ticket, an airline ticket in my, you know, like, I'm clicking purchase, you have this ticket, and it says, like, for seven minutes, and there's a countdown. I take that as seriously as, like, a bomb.

[A]

Like a bomb countdown. Like, I'm like, need, like, never chill about booking flights.

[B]

Well, getting a travel agent was the best thing. And I know people are like, you don't need them. I'm like, yeah, you do. You kind of do.

[A]

Well, yeah, the. The amount of flights that you have to book.

[B]

Well, I do. I just mean I think people are like AI. I'm like, I don't know. A guy is better. I prefer a guy.

[A]

Cannot believe it has taken you this

[B]

long to come up with AI. I prefer a guy. Okay. It's awful.

[A]

I mean, it is awful, but I can't.

[B]

It's up there with AI. Yeah, I have a lot of bad AI jokes.

[A]

I don't know. I mean, it's such a dad joke about that.

[B]

I'm thinking about doing a bit about how people are like, dad, that's a dad joke. But I feel like I've already done that joke. I've already done the like. If. So. Yeah, well, dad jokes. But like, anybody that's, like, trying to make the world a funnier place, and you're like, dad joke.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm just like, I'm sorry. And what kind of jokes are you bringing? No joke.

[A]

Yeah, you bring no joke. And honestly, like, I like most dad jokes.

[B]

Yeah. I think they're just a word. Americans don't like obvious jokes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We want a joke that's a little bit of a. Ooh, that speaks to me, that I got it. So if you tell a joke that is. Anyone could get it. There's no hit for ego for the listener. So they go, dad joke. And that's how they get the hit of ego, by going, I'm better than that joke. Well, good job. Oh, I'm sorry. Is that Arthur Fonzarelli? Eat ass. Eat all the unwashed ass.

[A]

Ew.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

I didn't like that.

[B]

I'm not saying it's not clean. They just got out of the ocean.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It just hasn't been properly watched, but it's a little salty.

[A]

Oh, no, I think it's good.

[B]

It's got a new mama.

[A]

I was trying that whole time to think of an example of a mom joke, and I have one. Do you want to hear it?

[B]

Can't wait.

[A]

You go to a garage sale, and nothing is there is good. And she goes, what is this, a garbage sale?

[B]

I love that.

[A]

I don't think it's mine. I'm pretty sure maybe even got it from Homestar Runner. I think I remember there being a mention of, like, and your mom calls it a garbage sale.

[B]

And when you call it Target, like,

[A]

Target is a mom joke.

[B]

Yeah. And the first person that said target sparked a revolution. Everyone. Howard Stern knows Tarjay. Ronald Reagan knew it. No, he didn't. He was dead.

[A]

Well, no, he definitely did.

[B]

Ronald Reagan die pre Target.

[A]

No. Oh, no.

[B]

No.

[A]

Target was. Exists. Existed in the 90s, late 90s, when

[B]

did Ronald Reagan die?

[A]

I think he died.

[B]

We don't know.

[A]

In the 2000s.

[B]

Oh, really? Pretty sure Ronald Reagan saw 9 11. I'm pretty sure Ronald Reagan had a take on 9 11. He did not. I'm pretty sure there's no way Ronald Reagan.

[A]

I remember him being.

[B]

We're looking it up. We don't look up anything.

[A]

Okay. I remember him being alive, which. And I was young until.

[B]

Oh my God, 2004. He had a take on 9 11.

[A]

Take on 9 11.

[B]

He weighed in on 9 11. Well. Well, these are dark times and it takes enormous courage. Jelly bean, jelly bean, whale, whale.

[A]

Nancy Tipper.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What was Tipper?

[B]

There's a Simpsons joke where Marge is listening to a radio DJ doing whale whale. And she goes, he did say well a lot. It's my favorite.

[A]

So good.

[B]

Okay, so the setup is you're pre enjoying something that's not gonna happen.

[A]

Yes. And I know it's not gonna happen, but I'm having fun with my friend Bri enjoying it.

[B]

This is. This is really interesting to me. Like even just kind of talking about it puts me in this place. Like my hands kind of start to sweat and I get tight and I think I'm just going to jump to the. Well, what. What happened was I got shitty. I was. I was like Val, thinking this might. Well, here's the truth. I said in therapy the next day, it's like I was in my brain and then I was in a. It's like. Actually what I said was I was using one computer. Then all of a sudden I was on a different computer. I was on like a computer from the 80s.

[A]

Yeah. And she was like, yeah, your limbic brain.

[B]

But I really felt like a downshift. Everything that was there, all of the like, presence, all of the resource, all of the reality. I'm at dinner with friends. Val is talking about, like, I can say that Val's just talking about a thing she'd like to do. What does this matter? And the way that it comes out. There's a punchline to this is money. I go. We just went. And we had also just mentioned that we're going on a little trip. Local trip. Yeah, for spring break. So spring break trip was mentioned. We just went on a seven day retreat in Mexico and now there's this other retreat in Mexico you even mentioned. It's the part of Mexico we love. This is important.

[A]

Ah, yes.

[B]

And you're like, maybe I can go. And I'm. I. The first shitty thing I said was, aren't you working On a TV show.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Which was. That's as shitty as I get.

[A]

So shitty I go, I'm sorry, aren't

[B]

you working on a TV show right now?

[A]

Don't you have work to do?

[B]

Like, why are you, Jennifer Coolidge, just going from White Lotus to White Lotus?

[A]

Yeah, that was, that was when my brain downshifted.

[B]

Oh, I threw. I, I, I. We've talked about this on the pod before. You and I do not classically fight, but this is what it looks like when we're shitty.

[A]

It's like, passive aggressive in front of our friends.

[B]

Like the way you imagine, like, wasps fighting.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't mean the bugs, folks, but I, like, slice you. Which, as I'm saying it, I'm, like, completely out of control.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It really is just this. Like, I'm glad it's not meaner because I'm just like, sorry, aren't you? And I'm saying, like, I'm going right to money. Like, aren't you make doing this thing?

[A]

Yeah. And you.

[B]

And I, like, I do things.

[A]

And I can tell by your face.

[B]

My face. And my nose flaring.

[A]

Your nostrils flaring when you say that. That I'm like, oh, man. Yeah, he's lit up. And. And then you. And when you said that, it did make me, like, I felt embarrassed.

[B]

And your friend is there, and I'm in.

[A]

So I'm embarrassed for. I'm embarrassed that she's seeing us. Like, fighting in front of a friend is my least favorite thing.

[B]

There's a punchline to that, too.

[A]

And, And I. So, like, I'm embarrassed that she's seeing this. And then I'm also specifically embarrassed. Like, I get this story where I'm like, I don't. And just because this was the dynamic that my parents had, it's like, I don't want her to think that you are this bully husband and I'm a subservient wife.

[B]

Totally. That's what it looked like. Like, if I didn't know us and you were watching and I. And I'm just like, oh, just go from retreat to retreat.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is.

[B]

This is the funniest part, though, with some love and understanding for this perspective, which ultimately is not the real perspective. It's what I'm presenting is my perspective. We'll get to what the real perspective was.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I was representing something that I deemed as valid, which is, we just went on a retreat. You're just gonna go on another retreat. And I'm just like, if I'm ever adding up money. It's only in anger. It's only in. Yeah, no one understands me. Don't worry, Pete. Oh, you just.

[A]

He just.

[B]

He just cuts and does these shows. It's no big deal. Yeah, we're going to Mexico. Cut to me, like washing a shirt in the holiday sink. Holiday in sync. That's not true, but you know what I mean. That's how it starts to feel, but way more interestingly. Wait, did I lose a line? Oh, yeah. This is the funniest part.

[A]

Sorry.

[B]

It's okay. Somebody delivering the mail. I said. You said, and this was your shittiest line. This was your shittiest line. You go, aren't you about to go on a retreat? And I didn't say it, but in my mind I was like, on my birthday.

[A]

Yeah, I think you did say that. You said, it's my birthday trip.

[B]

And I was like. And it was booked. It was booked six months ago.

[A]

Which, of course I know all of that, but I just was. And I love that you go on that routine.

[B]

It was a delicious. It was a delicious right hook. It was like you were fighting me with your left hand and then you realized I am not left handed and you clocked me with your right. I'm like, didn't we just go on a retreat? The thrill of you going, wait, wait a minute, he's about to go on a retreat.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then you hit me with that. And I was, of course, just let's get to the real perspective because I was like, also humiliated and angry and all these feelings. Believe it or not, the rest of the meal was fine. It wasn't great, but like, we didn't like mope too much. We kind of pushed through and had some. We moved on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So then I had therapy the next day and I realized that my brain. There is something genius about my unconscious, which is that you have a feeling. The real reaction to you saying, I want to go on this retreat in the part of Mexico that you and I like.

[A]

Yeah, that's such a. I want to go. Interesting thing.

[B]

And your friend, not me. Yeah, just allow it. Just allow how kind of petty this is. Your friend says, you should go. And you're like, I should go. Like, it's all happening over there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm just like this. I feel like a skin tag, like on the side. Nobody gives a shit. And my brain, in that moment will have the initial reaction and instantly, like before I can even have it, will paint over it with a more acceptable reaction, which is anger. What's actually Happening, which we're getting to is sadness. And then we immediately shellack it with anger because I can see say, in fact, there's kind of a flex to it. It's self serving. I can go, oh, yeah, just what's another thousand dollars? Let's just go. Like, it's the, it's the put upon husband.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But then when I'm in therapy, I'm like, we started looking at it and I'm grateful once I had settled down and I'm quiet and my therapist is wonderful. I'm like, oh, I felt what I would have said if I was being in my absolute vulnerable truth is, don't abandon me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Please don't abandon me.

[A]

Yeah. And like, and not even like, don't abandon me on the trip. Like, don't abandon me in this conversation. Because I think that's what's going on

[B]

is it's already begun. Look, it's already happening.

[A]

Yeah. You've given, you know, you've, you've given the example before of like, we had a friend who we, it was like the first time we were ever hanging out. And she said, this becomes the touchstone for a lot of ways that I can be and I'm in the wrong in this situation. But she was like talking about how much Jamaica means to her and how she went there when she was a kid a bunch. And she has, I think we've talked about this house. Yeah. In Jamaica. And like, just talking about how great it is. And I was like, oh, that sounds amazing. I've always wanted to go to Jamaica. Which I've never once mentioned. Don't feel.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I mean, I can get in touch with the part of me that

[B]

like, maybe if you were like, we're going to Jamaica. If you want a trip to Jamaica and you were excited, I wouldn't be

[A]

like, all my friends were going to Jamaica. I'd be like, okay. But like, it's never the statement I've always wanted to go to Jamaica is not true. And you, like, called me out in real time and I, and I know in that moment what's happening for you is it's not even just the principle of like value being inauthentic. It's like, and correct me if I'm wrong, I think you're. You're going.

[B]

You forgot I was here.

[A]

Yes. Like, you're not being the version of yourself that I know.

[B]

And when you mirror other people change

[A]

or like code switch to a different version of yourself, then you're abandoning me. So another example would with where. Because, like, that is true. I shouldn't. I shouldn't say stuff that I don't mind. But even when, like, you often claim. Yeah, mean, you often, like, talk about how I'll. I'll start talking. You'll say, I'll start talking like a friend. Whoever friend I'm with, I'll start talking like them. But really, what's happening? And. And I can feel the difference in my body sometimes I am mirroring them because I don't feel 100% safe. So I am just talking in the way that they talk. But then there are other friends where we have a version that we talk like a way that we talk together that was sort of co created.

[B]

It's your friend bit.

[A]

And I'm again code switching and just using a different version of myself. So I'm actually not being fake.

[B]

Yeah. Me and my brother talk exclusively.

[A]

That's right. That's a perfect example.

[B]

What's happening, dude? Yeah, like, what the fuck is happening? Merry Christmas, dude.

[A]

I love. Well, the way that you talk is how he talks.

[B]

I do my impression of him. To him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I do this to everyone in my family.

[A]

Yeah. So that is you, actually. Hello. It's. It's fun.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But. Yeah. So you. But in that moment, you aren't the center of my world.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that feels like actual death to you. Actual death feels like I am abandoning you.

[B]

Yeah. And vanishing in front of you. Yeah.

[A]

And I think there's both things. I think we do this well already where it's like, both things can happen. You know, I. Where people would get stuck. I think in a relationship with this dynamic is, you know, you really firmly planting your feet in your side of it where it's like, I need you to not ignore me. And like, I'm right. You are ignoring me. And. And mirroring other people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And abandoning me. And then like, my side of it being like, I can't have every second of my life be all about you. I want to enjoy other people too. And digging my heels in that. When really the answer is like, both things are true. I can pay more attention to you. You can call. You can also be in charge of your own nervous system when. When that is happening and I'm giving my attention to someone else. And like we've mentioned so many times on this podcast, it doesn't require a lot. Like, you don't actually require a lot. You just want me to, like, check in with you.

[B]

There's something else going on here too, which is once I got in touch with the real feeling. Because what's tricky about the mask feeling. You're spending all our money. That wasn't really how I was feeling. And that had to be identified. And then we put that to one side. And then we go, oh, there's a child. And I don't mean that in a bad way. There's like literally a child who was raised by a mother. Very loving mother. Who literally never.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Ever did anything.

[A]

Yeah. And just wanted to be with you.

[B]

Was just around.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that. And I, of course, foundation is being laid. I'm like, that's love. You're always here for me. And then that became this. I don't want to say a complex, but I was like, that's what it looks like.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You stay. And I. I think I've told this story before. I went. My mom always used to say, sit in the waiting room during my piano lessons. And I was probably like seven. And she left. She couldn't stay for my piano lesson. She had to run an errand. And I just broke down in the left. Like, I couldn't handle that. She wasn't there. So just started crying and I walked home. That is where. So you start looking at that. Okay. There's this wound. I have a wound here. Like, or. Or I have this programming. Love means a mommy. And I'm imposing that on you. That never doesn't pick me up when I'm sad or crying. And then what? I'm like, I appreciate that. You're like, okay, it's somewhere in the middle. I can check in with him. That's true. But also what needs to be checked in with is. Is that true? That's what my therapy is, is we conjure up that aspect of myself. Hello. Thank you. I understand. It's completely understandable that you got that message. Of course you would. That's how you were raised. And it does feel good to have someone drop everything for you. And. And that's. And that was a nice thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, we're not going to, like, throw anybody under the bus. Mom gave us so much. So nice. But can I just. And this is all my therapy is. Can I just invite you to look at reality? Was Val actually abandoning you or was she. Are you just so scared of being abandoned because you think it's like you're survival.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That even the hint of someone. You know what I mean? So I like that you're like, what can I do? And there's also a good dose of like, what can I do? Well, that's to just Right. Illuminate this part of me that really talk about, like, downshifts into fight, flight, freeze. And I start going, don't you have a TV show, Mother?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It's so. I'm not uncomfortable. It's so, Mommy. It's so.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

You're to take care of me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I. We don't have that dynamic in our relationship consciously. I unconsciously have, like, a. And I think, if we're being honest, most of us do modeling of love from our parents, and it's fucking gross. You can think it's gross and run away, or you can think it's gross and deal with it. And that's what I'm trying to do.

[A]

Absolutely. And because you're doing that.

[B]

Sorry, we're out of time.

[A]

Every time we think that thing. Because you're doing that, I feel. I feel like I can and want to also reach out, like, because you are like bridge helping your side of the bridge, of bridging the gap of this. I'm like, oh, well, I also want to build my half of the bridge then and meet you in the middle. If you weren't doing that and you were like, no, the problem is, is that you are. I mean, so many people, again, would get stuck. They would never admit that there's any of this. They'd be like, no, the problem is money. They would get stuck there.

[B]

One of the.

[A]

I'm.

[B]

I'm kind of super aware of how I do, like, sharing things that demonstrate some level of evolution in me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I hate to agree with you. But I also.

[A]

But you deserve it because you do have that evolution.

[B]

I think a large percentage of people would just. It's so much more comfortable to just be like, and where's this money coming from, huh?

[A]

Yeah, totally. And there's.

[B]

But really, it's like, you're my mommy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How fun would it be if people really said what they thought?

[A]

Yeah. Don't abandon me, Mommy.

[B]

You're my mommy. Mommy.

[A]

And I'm like, I'm not my mom.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, you're my mom. Okay. But I'm not my mom.

[A]

For moms. Moms always get it.

[B]

Mom, mom, mom's mom, moms, moms. And then when you're brave, you can get to dads.

[A]

Yeah, dads.

[B]

There's the compliment that moms are safer. So you can deal with that stuff.

[A]

That's true first. That is true. Only 18 states require sex ed to be medically accurate. And relationship classes. Let's fix that. I'm Shan, an asex certified sex educator

[B]

with a master's in psych. And on my podcast, Lovers by Shan,

[A]

we make learning about love as mind

[B]

blowing as making it.

[A]

Celebrities and fascinating people share an intimate story. Then we uncover the lesson for all of us. Watch Lovers by Shan from Lemonada Media on YouTube or listen wherever you like your podcast. But, yeah, I, I, that's what, What I meant. What? By saying, like, it's both, like, I can be aware and be like, Pete needs me to just check in with him every once in a while. And also, I like, I do that with full confidence that you are working on being. This is what I meant when I said being in charge of your own nervous system.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because, like, what's happening is you're, you're being like. It's like the, the subtext is also you being like, what you're doing is dysregulating me. So stop that and regulate me. And like, the, and we do this with Leela, it's like, actually, the best way to love someone is to be like, I think you can regulate yourself through this. You got this. Like, you can do it. I don't have to regulate you.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And yeah, but. But also, it's. I want to mention, like, what a non. Thing it was like, yeah, it was this moment, and it was in, like, afterwards we got in the car, and you were like, I'm sorry that I got so tight with that. And, And I was like, yeah, I, I just got. I embarrassed. And.

[B]

And didn't we uncover that I'll apologize too many times?

[A]

And you did apologize a lot.

[B]

And I apologized three times. And that was with restraint.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it is. I do want you to also apologize.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is a little embarrassing to admit, which makes.

[A]

I don't know if I did right away.

[B]

You. It took you a while. But also.

[A]

Well, I still was.

[B]

Yeah. That's how the baby is online. The baby is like, will you please. And I hate to. It's like asking Leela to kiss my parents, which we don't do. I don't want to ask you to do something you don't want to do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And yet at the same time, I'm like, please, just say it.

[A]

But also, you had. I wasn't, like, deliberately withholding an apology. I was still processing what had happened. Like, you're just such a high processor that you had already had it. It all in. And I was just like, what was going on? Why were you mad? What's happening? Like, right. What did I say again? What? And then I. By the third time you apologized, I said, I'm. And this. And this wasn't me getting out of apology apologizing, but I did do one of the stinker apologies where I was like, and I'm sorry. I'm sure. Well, I guess this is a good. I said, I'm sure. I didn't handle it right either.

[B]

That was nice. I like that.

[A]

But what I realized, I was still processing how I did handle it in the.

[B]

Over apologizing, though, again, for all the, like, confidence, self love and magnanimism. There's this guy that's going like, there's so Mom. Mom doesn't abandon you, but at a certain point, you have to, like, end that relationship. So this child learns this thing is your world and is your life and is your mom. And you're like, I'm upset. And then, like, look at me now. Like, there's so much severing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then I think the kid just goes like, so that just went away. And I don't know if they're, like, completely chill with that. I'm sure they're not.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I keep apologizing to you because I do want an apology, but that's the safe reason. I have some power there. I'm manipulating you. That feels good. I'm like, I'm going to manipulate you. I'm going to get what I want. But what's actually happening is I'm inviting you and even imploring you to see me as abandonable. I'm like, I am a piece. Like, look at all the jokes I make. I'm like, did you see on Twitter, Pete Holmes is a goon is trending.

[A]

Well, that's.

[B]

I'll make all these jokes.

[A]

Yeah. Because there was that I was gonna get to that, too, is like, at first you were apologizing. Also, I would say you flip quicker than I do. Like, I think you burn white hot. And then you get into repair way quicker. Whereas I am like, a slower roll into, like, you're an American spirit. I'm upset about this.

[B]

I'm a camel light.

[A]

Yeah. And this makes sense because you are more in touch with your anger than I am. But, like, so it's happened before, and I think we've talked about it on the podcast where, like, by the time you're ready to apologize and repair, oftentimes I'm just realizing that I'm angry about all of it.

[B]

Yeah, that's right.

[A]

So, like, I'll. I'll kind of do a version of like, I'm not I, like, I, I know I've said once before, like, I don't like, I, I totally agree. I just think I'm still need to. I'm not ready to leave it yet.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I am trying to wrap it up like a zip file.

[A]

And you can because you've. It's like sex. It's like you came.

[B]

Wow. What are you. You're bringing up that.

[A]

No, I'm not saying, like, our sex. I'm just saying, like, this is like a typical masculine.

[B]

That does happen sometimes. That happens sometimes.

[A]

What? What, what are you finishing?

[B]

You don't.

[A]

Oh, but I'm just saying, like, that's like a. That's like a. I'm not talking about you specifically. I'm saying, like, I, I, I. This is a, this is a male, female thing where women are like, I need a little bit of time. I need some like, like, processing. I'm not done with this. I need to, like, take my time in this. And it's like, I, I came, I conquered. Yeah.

[B]

I actually think the. Funny. I, I know this isn't what you meant, but I don't know if we've talked about this before. If there is a bit about me finishing and you didn't. It's that moment when we've been going for a while and I've kind of, like, tried my things and trying to find you and whatever. It's not working. And then I have this, like, ice cold male logic.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not that it's cruel, but it's just like, it's just very robotic. 0, 0, 1, 0, 0. Well, she's not getting there. I might as well. I might as well.

[A]

We can't both not get there.

[B]

Like, what is gain? Like, I feel like I'm addressing the congress of your vulva.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm like, what is gained if all of us fail?

[A]

And if we had the. Like that, like, us.

[B]

Oh, it's Helen Mirren. It's Meryl Streep. Like a board. Sorry, I went the wrong way.

[A]

No, I was gonna.

[B]

The vagina are not having my argument.

[A]

I was going to say if we have your, like, inner monologue of that whole process of, like, okay, I'll try this. Okay, let's do this. She likes it when I do this. Okay. All right. Well, it's not working. I might as well at least come and then, like, in behind. Or it would be the, like the opaque clock and it's just been five minutes.

[B]

That's so funny. Funny. The next click of vulnerability is, I don't know. How much longer I'm gonna be able to keep doing this?

[A]

Well, yes, absolutely.

[B]

It's usually if that happens, it's not like real lovemaking. You know what I mean? It's some sort of afternoon delight. We thought it was there. We thought we would find it. We're not finding it. And then I'm like, I think this whole thing might be curtained down in a minute. I might as well.

[A]

And I do.

[B]

But I do like the idea of a council of strong women that I'm pleading in front of. Shouldn't one of us. And they're like, what of the tongue? And then I'm thrown into prison.

[A]

Well, I will say in your defense, there are. Like, there are. I would say there are. Are times when I'm. I would. I would even say most often I'm looking to have an orgasm during the sex. But sometimes it's like we don't have enough time. So let's just do this really hot and quick. I. I don't want to worry about also trying to have an orgasm. And so I'll just, like, think about this later and have an orgasm without.

[B]

Yeah. Fun. Yeah. I don't love making the argument for, like, after you're done as the fella. It takes a special man. That's like, you know what? I just had a big pizza. I'm going back to Papa John's.

[A]

No, I think what it is. I know. I think it's not that. Well, yeah, no, I think that does. That's true. That's the thing. But it's more like we need to normalize. And again, there's sometimes just time doesn't allow this most of the times in our life. But I would love it if we could normalize the. Like during sex, what we're calling sex, the erection comes and goes.

[B]

We've talked about this.

[A]

Like, we don't have to live on its timetable.

[B]

The guest of honor.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The Queen of England is not here.

[A]

Let's trust that he'll come back when he's needed.

[B]

And remember that episode of Succession where Connor is running around and he's like, the butters are frozen.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That's how I am with my boner. Like, the butters are frozen. Like, just fucking sit down, Cameron.

[A]

Yeah, it's fine. Let's just. Just roll. Let's roll with it. Okay. But then the other thing about the dust up, what I was gonna say is, oh, you apologized. And I. I'm realizing that that's why I. Maybe it took until the third time of you apologizing. For my sort of apology because I. I was still like, hey, wait, what just happened? Did you really just, like, chastise me for wanting to go on a retreat? Like, whatever, you know?

[B]

Right.

[A]

And then. And then I kind of did process it and. And it was fine. And then later that night, like, when we're getting ready for bed, that's when you're like, you. You've alerted the media that I'm a piece of. And I like, whatever.

[B]

And it's so darling now.

[A]

It is.

[B]

Now that we're talking about it, it's like, people are so tender.

[A]

Absolutely. And I know.

[B]

So obvious.

[A]

Totally. And I. And I am happy because I do love you. And I. Without trying, I'm happy to, like, talk to that part. I have a whole relationship with that part that, like, comes out and needs me to be like, I love you. I'm not going anywhere. You are. This is right where I want to be, you know, whatever. And just says that because it is vulnerable. I think it's particularly more vulnerable with your style of, like, feeling angry when you actually are angry about something and then coming down from it. There's a vulnerability that I just avoid by not even really being in touch with my anger or quietly, like, imploding.

[B]

That's a funny sketch idea. Women, not always women, but often the women in my life are like, let's get embodied. Let's get somatic. Get in touch. What do your arms feel like?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Where are your legs Right. Right now? And then there's another retreat where I'm just like, where's your anger right now, bro?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's brought to you by Black Rifle Coffee. Like, drink it. Drink it. Drink too much of it.

[A]

Get in touch with your anger.

[B]

Where's your anger?

[A]

Well, that's like, what is the. What is it? There's a sh. There's a movie was. It wasn't. Poor Baby. What was it? Where there's like, they're at the. Oh, it's fleabag where she goes to a silent retreat. It's a. It's an all women's silent retreat. But then they're also having an all men's retreat where they're working out their anger towards women. So it's just like them silently meditating and men in the yard being like,

[B]

God, I. So what? We'll end on this because we're almost out of time here. We got to go get Lee. But. But when we went on that retreat, the one that I referenced as we were just on a retreat, still mad about it.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

No, no, no. I didn't mean it like that. But it is that retreat.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We mentioned so many times how our friend Adriana led this movement class in the morning, and one of the things that wasn't for me was that she was like, okay, we're all gonna break up into our signs. And it was just me and two other Aries, and she was like, do an interpretive dance where you express what it feels like when you're dysregulated. And no shade to the two women that were in my group. Yeah, I actually loved both of them, but we didn't have a lot of time to plan. And I'm like, dysregulated. When I'm dysregulated. I'm punching my steering wheel. I'm screaming in the car. I'm like, fucking. Like, it's not even. I don't even like thinking about what I'm like when I'm. It's always by myself, by the way. I have to say that I'm too proud to let you think that I would let anyone see this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But here we are in this, like, hippie environment. I'm like, all right, let's do this. So it starts. And I'm like. I let out this, like, yell. We haven't even talked about this.

[A]

Let out a huge yell, like, primal scream.

[B]

And it's because we're a fire sign. And. And look, no disrespect to the lady. They did it, right. They just started flickering like they were candles, like.

[A]

Yeah. And kind of burning, like.

[B]

And being like. And I'm like, what? What? I'm, like, stomping my feet. I'm going up to people and shaking them lightly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And afterwards, I was just so embarrassed. I was just like. I thought we were fucking doing this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're telling me when you're dysregulated, you feel like. Like it was like a sexy candle. Have you been dysregulated? Yeah, I just was like, as an artist, as a four, and as a truth teller, I was like, I take issue with this. And then I was like, you shouldn't do this exercise with men. Like, I don't want to be, but I am. Just for a moment, I understand gender construct. I do. I'm just saying, as a guy, I couldn't have felt more like a guy. And you're like, dance and emote and fucking. And she kept telling us, like, let it out. Like, be real. And I do it. And no one. Yes. Anded me. And I'm Just a lunatic. You know how many times it dawned on me that, like, that little dance studio was just next to other people's rooms and it was like 7:30 in the morning. I was like, they probably were woken up by what sounded like a man with his balls and like a vice. Like, I was like, why did. Like. It's not. Not. It's not the same thing. Inviting women and inviting men to express their rage or people with high test. If you want to just take out gender people of a certain way.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm not saying this to be correct. I'm saying that's real.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No one on that retreat was like me. And I felt really embarrassed.

[A]

Oh, I hate that.

[B]

I thought. And I didn't go to another dance class after that.

[A]

Oh, my God. I didn't clock that.

[B]

I was like, if you're gonna, like, mix it up. Up with, like, embarrassing. I thought we were dancing to Mariah Carey.

[A]

I think I. You didn't go the next day, but I think you did go finally. Again.

[B]

Maybe I was. I was embarrassed.

[A]

I'm so sorry. I hate.

[B]

We didn't talk about it. I know, because I was too embarrassed.

[A]

You told me a little bit talking

[B]

about it now, but.

[A]

But that's the thing is, first of all, I do think Adriana, who gave the prompt, loved that you responded that way. And I think everybody did. I think you were.

[B]

I didn't get that vibe.

[A]

I really.

[B]

I was like. I think I scared. I'm not trying to be a big man. I'm saying I overdid it. It's the nightmare of interpretive dance. Oh. Oh, no. I've shown too much. It's the nightmare. This is why they have the ribbons. The ribbons do the yelling. I just yelled. I'm embarrassed right now.

[A]

Okay, let me. Let me take over.

[B]

Over. Then we're out of time.

[A]

No, I really don't think it was. I really think it felt more awful and vulnerable for you because you were in this squishy feminine space which the patriarchy has told us rage does not belong in feminine spaces, which is already the first lie. And you were. You were authentic and vulnerable and brave to show an. A shadow part of you.

[B]

Well.

[A]

And it is an injustice. Justice. I'm not saying anybody did anything wrong, but there is an injustice that you weren't met with.

[B]

I wanted a yes.

[A]

And there's such an opportunity there to be like, yes, I also have that rage.

[B]

Anybody had even done a little growl.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I would have been so happy.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

In fact, thank you. I received that. And it wasn't so much that I wasn't received. It's. And again, those ladies, I. I was close with both of them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's just. I needed a little yes. And it's my love language. And I'm like, shit. Now I'm the guy who yelled. What is more a cliche that one of the three men at the ladies retreat does a barbaric yawp. And everyone's like, jesus.

[A]

Yeah. But I don't. Everybody loved you and they continued to love you after that. So I. They did. You don't believe me?

[B]

I believe you in a way that they were like, let's all get over that.

[A]

I don't think it was like that.

[B]

You're right. I'm overreacting.

[A]

You know that I'm highly sensitive.

[B]

I know I'm overreacting.

[A]

I'm sensitive to that. Like, if you had been like that, I would have felt it and been like, you didn't read the room there,

[B]

but I might have woken a family of four up.

[A]

Maybe. But that was not the first time that they were woken up by that dance class. They were constantly woken up by that. That also. I'll share this so quick.

[B]

I sounded like Dave Bautista's ringtone.

[A]

I. Baby, I really think what happens.

[B]

Pepper and some riffs.

[A]

It's like how when you do bits about your parents and you'll be like, they didn't like that. And I'm like, no, you didn't like that. You felt vulnerable.

[B]

Doing this is good. You're very good.

[A]

You didn't get anything less than like a.

[B]

A gas. Slow.

[A]

Like a. Standing in a slow clap feels like not enough. Because you needed. You're being so vulnerable that you needed like, extra praise and approval and. And mirroring. And you just instead got like, the same amount everybody else got.

[B]

Which is unacceptable.

[A]

Right. So I'm just saying don't let the fact that it felt vulnerable and. And tricky inside you.

[B]

No, you're so right.

[A]

Paint how it was.

[B]

This is a great tip. Tip. It's a great observation. And it's something you and I say to each other all the time. And it's what you said to me. And it just worked really well. How you felt and how it was received are completely different realities.

[A]

Absolutely. And often how you feel is painting how you're perceiving how it's being received.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I. You're absolutely right. I let out this yell. I. I really was all in on that retreat.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was like, she said, make a sound and A movement that represents what, like, share it. Don't be embarrassed.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I am embarrassed of how I feel and how I behave. Mostly how I feel when I'm dysregulated. So I was like, great, I'm all in.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Even I'm gonna get an A plus. But also, I wanna. I wanna move this stuff out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then it was like. It would be like being on a sex retreat. And you know that Brett Goldstein in his. His great special where everyone says, like, what is your best day? Or something? And everybody has, like, you know, the day my son was born, the day I helped my mother. No, his was like, I got a blow job.

[A]

Oh, yeah. There used to be a. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

I felt like, you're on a sex positive retreat and everyone's like, do something weird. And I just. To let us. And I start and I tuck my balls between my legs and I do that kind of mooning where there's your balls. And then everyone else, like, goes, like,

[A]

I. I honestly, I. I'm gonna even take it further.

[B]

And I'm like, oh, I didn't know we weren't doing ball play.

[A]

I'm gonna really take it further and say that, like, it was so not a thing that. That's why nobody reassured you. Like, it was because Adrianna, who leads those is do. Is having everybody scream and crawl and, like, flip off the air and, like, like, move their pelvis.

[B]

I roll my eyes because I'm like it. All of that. It's just like, I think a real yell is so much worse than, like, and now flip off the ocean. And I'm like, I really, like, I went in the basement, I woke up. What is his name in Goonies?

[A]

It just. I'm not gonna go into.

[B]

I got that guy.

[A]

It just felt bigger to you because you were actually feeling it, but it didn't come off that way. And in fact, you, like, Apollo or checked in with a woman whose shoulders you.

[B]

Well, one woman. I gr. I again, I even asked her, is it like, is it okay if I touch your shoulders? Because I wanted to show, like, how I would, like, try and, like, get other people and go, you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And that led to us being quite close because we sat next to each other at our luncheon, and you.

[A]

Yeah. And you said, like, I hope it's okay that I shook your shoulders. And didn't she have, like. She had some reaction? Like, yeah. Like, why are you even.

[B]

That was her and I's relationship the whole time. Because then I wrote a piece that was Rather aggressive. And I was like, was that too much? And she's like, this is like a thing for you.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

That was her energy. She was a rabbi.

[A]

So I really think that's what it was. Was already there was a dynamic of you being like. Like, I'm a big man and I have aggression and I have testosterone. Am I going to be accepted here? And then you do like a big manly yell and. And it's not. People aren't even clocking it as an issue. And then you're like, that was too bad. Like, nobody said anything.

[B]

Well, yeah, this is bad. This is a to be continued. Because clearly, like my. We've talked about it a million times. But like, that energy, which can be so useful at other times and really wonderful at other times, I still remain really like, oh, I'm a werewolf. I'll kill you. I'll kill everybody. Yeah, like, that's the feeling.

[A]

Yeah, I know. But I also love that you.

[B]

And even now, I have to say I don't have any violent feelings towards people.

[A]

Of course not.

[B]

Everybody has. So uncomfortable.

[A]

Everybody has that. I did. That's what I was gonna say is I did a primal scream in the desert with my two friends. We were like dancing in the desert to like gorgeous music. And after, like. And I was really feeling it. I was like, I'm gonna scream into the desert. And I was like. Felt this huge crescendo and I did the most like, blood curdling scream. And then after I was like, I should have worn them. Like, they're just dancing and having their own experience and they just hear right next to them the loudest, most terrifying scream.

[B]

Isn't it funny how people are like, your story makes my story feel better?

[A]

Yeah. Like, it's the exact same thing. It's really vulnerable to scream like that. And. And I was like, ah, I didn't do it right. And then I felt even worse, like more of a jackass, because that's when I got the vocal polyp because of that scream.

[B]

And I had a surgery because 30 months. I love this because in both things we unpack today, the first feeling is anger. Why didn't you guys support me? But really what's happening is there's a vulnerability. I'm unlovable. I'm broken. Yeah, you're gonna abandon me. Yeah, you did abandon me. It's just a child going like, I knew it.

[A]

I couldn't show you.

[B]

Love will always leave. It's. It's like, of course.

[A]

Oh, well, we love that boy.

[B]

We love you, boy.

[A]

We love you, boy.

[B]

Get in here, boy.

[A]

The boy in there. I love you.

[B]

She's me, boy.

[A]

I do love you. And I love every way that you are.

[B]

Well, you know in the Nightmare Before Christmas, where there are all those trees and one of them's Christmas and one of them's Halloween. If you open the Valentine's Day one, the big heart one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's just you and me. They don't know. People have never known. What?

[A]

Yeah, because they never opened that one.

[B]

They never went in there. There's also, like a safe St. Patrick's Day one, I think.

[A]

I know. I don't want to go with that one.

[B]

If you go in there.

[A]

You know what? It's just my cousins.

[B]

It's just my extended family. Well, I love you. Thank you. What a healing journey.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Ah, we weren't recording. Thank you. Valerie, you want to hit us with an abrupt one?

[A]

Keep it crispy. Are you Team Batman or Spider Man? Is the ultimate dish Pizza or tacos? Smash. Boom. Best will help settle those debates and so many more. Every episode, we take two cool things, smash them together, and we see which one is best. Debaters use facts, jokes, stories, and more to argue for their side. And it's all judged by a teenager because who is better at judging than a teen. It's fun. It's weirdly informative. It's smashboom Best. Get it. Wherever you get your podcasts, are you looking for ways to make your everyday life happier, healthier, more productive and more creative? I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one best selling author of the Happiness Project, bringing you fresh insights and practical solutions in the Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast. My co host and happiness guinea pig is my sister, Elizabeth Craft. That's me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore ideas and hacks about cultivating happiness and good habits. Check out Happier with Gretchen Rubin from Lemonada Media.