We Made It Weird #252

Summary

Podcast Summary: "We Made It Weird #252"

You Made It Weird with Pete Holmes

Release Date: May 22, 2026
Host: Pete Holmes
Co-host: Valerie

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Overview

In episode #252 of "We Made It Weird," Pete Holmes is joined once again by his wife, Valerie, for one of their much-loved Friday conversations. The episode explores themes of authenticity, vulnerability, parenting—particularly the dynamic of letting go as their daughter grows—and the subtle lines between laughter, embarrassment, and personal growth. Pete and Valerie’s signature blend of comedy and earnest reflection is on full display as they navigate topics ranging from fake laughs and body image to childhood milestones, the mother-daughter relationship, and the bittersweet process of children gaining independence.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Value of Authenticity and Real Laughter

• Discussion on laughter: The pair reflect on the difference between fake and real laughter, with Pete noting, “A true laugh when you, like, slow it down, sounds like a gorilla having an orgasm. No, no, no, it’s worse. If you heard it, you’d be humiliated.” (06:08)
• Valerie shares her own self-consciousness around her authentic laugh and the vulnerability it brings, tying it to the deeper trust of marriage.
• Notable Quote:

  “Marriage really is letting somebody really know you.” — Valerie (08:33)

• Reflection: They agree that authenticity—whether in laughter, media, or relationships—is more valuable than ever in today’s world.

2. Habits, Ritual, and the Pull of Nostalgia

• Conversation turns to family rituals (“pizza and movie night”) and why such rituals provide comfort and order to family life. Pete jokes about church and traditional rituals being boring compared to the satisfaction of family pizza night. (04:22)
• They reminisce humorously about generational habits and language ("what the hell" vs. "what the fuck") and how certain expressions become markers for different eras in comedy. (05:06)

3. Body Image, Genetics, and Self-Compassion

• Pete opens up about his lifelong journey with body image, despite being active (“I swim for 40 minutes every day and I look like I don’t do anything” — 15:40). Both discuss how aging and genetics impact their bodies, and how comparison—either to celebrities or each other—can be fraught.
• Notable Quote:

  “When you don’t work out, you look at your body and you’re like, well, I don’t work out. And now I do work out every day. And I look at my body and I’m like, this is as good as I can do.” — Pete Holmes (12:08)

• They discuss cultural shifts around terminology and fat acceptance, avoiding derogatory terms and focusing on self-acceptance for both themselves and future generations. (18:01)

4. Comparing, Jealousy, and Career Reflections

• Both admit to moments of petty jealousy—Valerie shares feeling weird when hearing about others’ new relationships, while Pete jokes about feeling competitive even with completely different comedians like Nicole Byer. (10:32)
• They reflect on privilege and luck in both body type and career, acknowledging the complex factors that contribute to perceived "success."
• Notable Quote:

  “People that are successful... will often look back and be like, ‘well, it’s because of this, this and this,’ when really you were just kind of born... with abs.” — Pete Holmes (16:12)

5. Parenthood, Embarrassment, and the Mother-Daughter Dynamic

• The bulk of the episode deals with navigating their daughter Leela’s growing independence, specifically her request to attend a school camping trip without her parents—especially not wanting Valerie to come.
• Valerie openly discusses the emotional impact of being rejected by her daughter, reflecting on her own childhood embarrassment with her mother and the cycle repeating.
• They unpack the primal, archetypal tension in the mother/daughter relationship, drawing on cultural touchstones like "Lady Bird" and fairy tales.
• Notable Quotes:

  “It’s such a trip, man, to like, love somebody so much and be like... now my job is to... start letting you go.” — Valerie (70:40)
  “If we do this right, you won’t feel my arms around you. You’ll know that they’re there, but you won’t feel held back by it.” — Valerie (71:23)

• Pete compares this process to universal themes: letting children go is echoed in many myths and life itself.
• Segment Timestamps:
  • The embarrassment moment and camping trip dilemma: 42:11–50:07
  • Reflections on leaving the “garden” of childhood innocence: 44:45–46:05
  • Parenting as a dance between holding on and letting go: 68:35–71:23

6. Vulnerability and the Practice of Letting Go

• The conversation regularly returns to the vulnerability of parenting: allowing children to experience independence, fear, and eventual resilience.
• They explore how pain, grief, and letting go are not just about parenthood, but are universally woven into all relationships and life itself.
• Valerie and Pete connect this microcosm to larger truths—how love and loss coexist and how even life itself is ultimately about learning to let go.
• Notable Quotes:

  “We all, I mean, ideally, you’re in love with life. And eventually you have to let it go. Like, this is... the exercise is like letting [go].” — Valerie (72:19)

7. Light-Hearted Asides, Media Tangents, and Meta Moments

• The episode is peppered with playful bits (manatee jokes, Tim Robinson impersonations at 04:46, “my style” comedy at 05:40, Harry Potter “shoppie” at 08:19).
• They muse on the return to physical media, DVD screeners, and the experience of being manipulated by streaming and awards campaigns (22:31–25:35).
• Pete shares a funny jealousy about not being nominated for standup awards and the underlying realities of media campaigning. (24:29)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Because the most authentic Valerie sounds is like a... oh, if I can—” (06:09, Pete Holmes imitating Valerie’s laugh, playfully illustrating vulnerability in marriage)
• “I'm not saying you should do this. I punch Lila as much as I kiss her.” (65:50, Pete on different love languages and playful parenting styles)
• “Moms want to eat the baby.” (69:25, Pete summarizing the Jungian archetype of mother-child bonds and separation)
• “If I do this right, you won’t feel my arms around you. You’ll know that they’re there, but, like, you won’t feel held back by it.” (71:23, Valerie on healthy parenting)
• “We all have this intuition that we’re like—I think that's a beginning, you know what I mean?” (73:49, Pete tying parenting milestones to the cycle of life itself)

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Timeline of Important Segments

• 00:54–02:08: Opening banter, "slice of manatee"/authentic bits.
• 04:22–06:08: Discussion on pizza night ritual, laughter authenticity.
• 10:12–17:28: Jealousy, career comparison, and body image deep dive.
• 18:01–20:10: Language of fat acceptance and responding to biases.
• 34:55–38:12: Embarrassment, laughing at self, and family teasing boundaries.
• 42:11–50:07: The camping trip dilemma and mother-daughter individuation.
• 51:02–54:32: Letting go, grief, and the universality of parental attachment.
• 68:35–73:15: Archetypes, “Lady Bird,” and tying individual experience to broader life lessons.

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Tone & Style

Throughout, Pete and Valerie keep the tone honest, funny, self-deprecating, and deeply empathetic. Their banter is candid and at times irreverent, but they repeatedly loop back to kindness, understanding, and the practice of self-forgiveness. The episode balances genuinely moving introspection with playful, weird humor—a blend that has become a hallmark of Pete Holmes’ podcasting style.

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Summary Takeaway

Episode #252 is a poignant and hilarious meditation on authenticity, growing up (for both parents and children), and the beauty and pain of letting go. Pete and Valerie use their own experiences as raw material for exploring universal human themes, making the episode feel both intimate and widely resonant—whether you’re a parent, a grown-up child, or simply someone learning to navigate the messy, weird, and wonderful attachments of life.

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Closing Note:
“Generally, the more vulnerable you are, the more interesting it is. So we'll just lean on that and keep it crispy.” — Valerie (76:58)

Transcript

[Pete Holmes]

Lemonade. You made it weird with Pete Holmes.

[Valerie]

What's happening, weirdos?

[Pete Holmes]

What's happening, Everybody?

[Podcast Announcer]

It's Friday, May 22nd.

[Pete Holmes]

It's 20, 2026. You are alive. That's right before the next thought appears. You are present and aware and that non conceptual presence awareness is what you are. Welcome to the show. Welcome to the dynamic. This is a great. I know I always say it, but man, I don't know if we'll always do guest ones, but we'll always do these ones because it's just a joy to sit down with you. And Val is very vulnerable and it's very.

[Valerie]

There was some tears.

[Pete Holmes]

Emotional and beautiful, but also laughs and bits. And I just love this one. I'm so gl. These are my favorite episodes. Everybody knows that.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And when fans say that they're their favorite episodes, it always touches my heart. So I'm glad you're here to see if these are your favorite episodes.

[Valerie]

Yes. Thank you for listening.

[Podcast Announcer]

This Sunday, by the way, on YouTube,

[Pete Holmes]

we're doing the live premiere of I Am not for Everyone, which was on a streamer, I won't mention which. No hard feelings.

[Podcast Announcer]

They lease their specials now, so.

[Pete Holmes]

So we got it back and then we're uploading it on YouTube for freezies. Obviously for freezies. But I'm going to be live commenting the premiere.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

For I Am not for everyone.

[Valerie]

On Sunday.

[Pete Holmes]

On Sunday at 5. Oh, thank you. That's what I was wondering. At 5. And then we have some tour dates coming up. I won't list them all, but come see me on the road. It's PeteHomes.com and my other special, Silly, Silly Fun boy just hit 800,000 in a month, which I'm very, very proud of. Really. I should say I'm really, really grateful for you guys for checking it out. And check it out again. The jokes are still funny. Yeah, sure, they'll be less funny, but you'll notice something you didn't notice the first time.

[Podcast Announcer]

Thank you for being here.

[Pete Holmes]

That's it.

[Podcast Announcer]

Oh, and spells to cast on your

[Pete Holmes]

parents is available for pre order wherever you get your podcasts. I'm just kidding. It's a book. Thank you for being here, everybody. Valerie. Thank you for this, everybody. I hope you enjoy it. Go ahead, my love.

[Valerie]

Get in into it.

[Pete Holmes]

Amazon Pharmacy presents Painful Thoughts it's been

[Valerie]

a long, bumpy road.

[Pete Holmes]

Dealing with yet another bladder infection and

[Valerie]

driving to the pharmacy to pick up meds.

[Ad Voice]

I went over a pothole and a little pee came out. So now I get to Stand in

[Valerie]

line with pee pee pants.

[Pete Holmes]

Next time, skip the pain and get fast Free delivery with Amazon Pharmacy Healthcare just got less painful. Hello.

[Valerie]

Hello.

[Pete Holmes]

This is just a little slice of manatee.

[Valerie]

Just a little of humanity.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't mean them SEAL type motherfuckers.

[Valerie]

Manatees. Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

This is Hugh, my manatee. This is my manatee. What's his name? Hugh.

[Valerie]

Hugh. Figure it out, Figure it out, Figure it out.

[Pete Holmes]

We zoom right in on their face. Figure it out, Figure it out, Figure it out through gritted teeth. Hugh, Manatee. So happy to be here. It's Friday.

[Valerie]

It's Friday.

[Pete Holmes]

How do you feel about Friday? And, Jen,

[Valerie]

I have a real pizza.

[Pete Holmes]

What's your favorite day? Finish what you're saying. I'm asking you how you feel about Friday.

[Valerie]

I would say Friday is my favorite day.

[Pete Holmes]

Really?

[Valerie]

Because I. Our kid is in school, so I do get some time, you know.

[Pete Holmes]

But then also, you feel my butt crack with peanut butter.

[Valerie]

But also, that's gross fluff. She doesn't have anything after school, so I get more time with her than I get on the other days. But not as much as like a Friday or a Saturday.

[Pete Holmes]

You mean a Saturday or a Sunday?

[Valerie]

A Saturday or Sunday.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, I. And then get that. That's great.

[Valerie]

Also, what I was gonna say is I have a huge Pavlovian pizza with Friday because in general, we do a pizza movie night. Obviously, that's what everybody does Friday.

[Podcast Announcer]

That pizza is the exercise everyone can commit to.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I mean? Like, we all benefit from habits. Yeah, like you should have a habit. Like a ritual and a ritual.

[Valerie]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Church, come on.

[Podcast Announcer]

Look, with respect, Church, you stink.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, you stink.

[Valerie]

You stink.

[Podcast Announcer]

You stink.

[Valerie]

What the hell, Church, you are so boring.

[Pete Holmes]

What the hell?

[Valerie]

What the. What the hell?

[Pete Holmes]

What the hell?

[Valerie]

That's our Tim Robinson impression, which I'd

[Pete Holmes]

like you to step out because we were talking about. Why is Tim Robinson saying what the hell so funny, Valerie? Because this is the clip.

[Valerie]

Wait, is this. Am I supposed to be saying something that I already said?

[Podcast Announcer]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Oh, because we. You said this. I'll say it.

[Valerie]

Because we say what? The whole world updated to what the. Yeah. So what?

[Pete Holmes]

The thing.

[Valerie]

It's like a throwback.

[Pete Holmes]

So he's going to like 1997.

[Valerie]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And we grew up even 2007.

[Valerie]

Yeah, maybe. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

No, by then we were. What the fuck?

[Valerie]

Yeah, you're right.

[Pete Holmes]

I'd like to see, like, a Gregorian calendar that marks when we went. Because what the fuck? Used to be, like, too much like when Quentin Tarantino and all Those Reservoir Dogs were out there. That. That was like. I can't usually do, like, a John early kind of joke.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I feel like that's a John early caper.

[Valerie]

I know what you mean. Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It wasn't really my style. That's what I liked. My style.

[Valerie]

My sty.

[Pete Holmes]

My style. My style. My. I'm not.

[Valerie]

Okay, keep going.

[Pete Holmes]

All of those. But when all of those Reservoir Dogs were doing all the dirty talk.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

By the way, naughty words.

[Valerie]

I've been laughing more like that. Like, the laugh that you got from me just then was like a. I can't. Let's see if I can recreate it. Like, it's like that.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, yeah. You. You've upgraded.

[Valerie]

I don't know why I love it. I don't like it.

[Pete Holmes]

I'll tell you why I like it.

[Valerie]

Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

Because the most authentic Valerie sounds is like a. Oh, if I can.

[Valerie]

Oh, no.

[Podcast Announcer]

Like a fake laugh.

[Pete Holmes]

Like.

[Valerie]

Oh, no.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, I uploaded that. That video of me interviewing Rupert. The video. Rupert Spira did the podcast this week. It'll be out in a couple weeks. And I'm thrilled.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I was just. I'm just still so elated from that. We'll talk a little bit about not. Not the interview, but that. But when I interviewed him on YouTube, which you can see, I make some dumb joke and I'm like. Like this. Like. Yeah, that's how it sounds to me. I'm sure to most people it sounds like, hahaha, you know? But to me, I'm like, what is this fakeness? You know, So a laugh. And I know we've talked about this a billion, but I find it fascinating. A true laugh when you, like, slow it down. Sounds like a gorilla having an orgasm. No, no, no. It's worse. If you heard it, you'd be humiliated. You haven't heard me make. I thought I made this point too many times. No, they did this thing. I don't know if it was NPR or just an NPR kind of thing, where they recorded real laughs and they slow them down and it sounds like orgasm. It sounds like. In a way that would make you blush. It's sort of like, wow. It's like. And then they slow down fake laughs. And fake laughs sound like, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

[Valerie]

Wow. I love this.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's like. So when you laugh, you're whatever I'm reminded of. Like, if I jump on you, like, you're the one that's like, wrestle.

[Valerie]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And I'll, like, get on you.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But I do it a little Too. Whatever. Like I just hit a spot.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And you'll go and it. I mean, I wish everyone knew. It makes me laugh how right that is.

[Valerie]

I mean, it really is like. It's like I'm gonna try to do it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, that's right. But what it is, is it's like a Harry Potter shoppie. S, H, O, P, P, E. Where you go in and we don't sell.

[Valerie]

I think that's just pronounced.

[Pete Holmes]

I know, but I want people to know that it's like an old timey

[Valerie]

shop with an E. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like the store next to us sells like saltwater taffy and we're a shop that sells little jars of the most authentic sounds in the world.

[Valerie]

Yes, yes. Well, this is the thing. It does. It makes me laugh hearing you talk about it and also, like, feel very vulnerable. Like, wow, you really. Marriage really is letting somebody really know you. But it makes me laugh every time I do that. Like. Yeah. Because it's so authentic. This is why I like being startled. Like, when somebody jumps up, jumps out at me. It's so funny because I'm like, something real happens. Yes. And I'm so surprised by the things that I say. I'm surprised it happened. Yes. Or two days ago, I was in the showers at the Korean spa with my friend Melissa. And this. There's like dividers.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like a Phoebe Bridgers lyric in the showers of the Korean spa.

[Valerie]

Melissa came to me.

[Pete Holmes]

Then I've done my bit where like, sometimes a guy is on a Phoebe Bridgers song. He's like, melissa came to me. I'm like, who the is this guy?

[Valerie]

Yeah. You're like having a love affair.

[Pete Holmes]

I thought we were having a thing.

[Valerie]

Yeah, yeah. She was singing to you, and then now there. There's some other guy here.

[Pete Holmes]

Can on a string.

[Valerie]

I've felt that way. I've felt jealous of every, like, folk singer girl.

[Pete Holmes]

They're your wife.

[Valerie]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

They're yours.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

They put their voice on something you own.

[Valerie]

We also do both share this where it's not something that either one of us is proud of, but both we. I can't remember even how we discovered it, but it was one of those great moments where I think I shared it. And you were like, I totally know exactly what you mean. Or vice versa.

[Pete Holmes]

Vivi.

[Valerie]

Where if somebody is talking about, like, this new person that they are absolutely in love with, like, if a man is doing that, I'll feel jealous. Even if I have no, no interest in this man and I'm in a happily Married situation.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

I'm just like, yeah, yeah. If that's happening.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. No, I know what you mean. I've. I see a friend of mine. I'll see Nicole Byer book, who is a black woman, booked something, and I'll be like, why didn't they book me? Yeah. And I can say that with full confidence, knowing that I think Nicole's similar to me in that way. I think all comedians are kind of similar. Like, yeah. What are they?

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

There's just the slightest.

[Valerie]

You're like, I just want everybody to want me.

[Pete Holmes]

Only what you were saying, though, you're in the Korean spa.

[Valerie]

Yeah. And she, she came up. So I was facing the shower, and she was behind me. They're dividers. So she was in the shower next to me, and. But then she came out from her divider and came up behind me and was not trying to scare me, but she was like, I think what we're gonna, like, whispered. And I was like. And just doing the, like, an authentic startled sound and a scream in a place. It made me laugh so hard. I love. I know you hate.

[Pete Holmes]

I envy the laugh that you have. I envy. You know, what I have a hard time doing. Believe it or not, I, I, I hope that believe it or not is earned, but I don't really like being laughed at. Like, I'll give you an example. I was. Your mom was here and pregnant pause.

[Valerie]

Pregnant pause.

[Pete Holmes]

We were sitting at the table and I said to Leela, and, you know, I love mentioning how I've been swimming. It's been almost a year of swimming every day. And, oh, my God, remember I was looking at my body, the thing that sucks about working out as opposed to not working out.

[Valerie]

I've said this for years.

[Pete Holmes]

When you don't work out, you're like, you look at your body. Well, no, you're. You look at your body and you're like, well, I don't work out.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And now I do work out every day.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And I look at my body and I'm like, this is as good as I can do.

[Valerie]

I know.

[Pete Holmes]

And I love my body. I, I don't want anyone to even think about their bodies that way. I don't really think about my body that way, but I do look in the mirror and I'm like, this is what daily effort. Like, let's be real by.

[Valerie]

Let's be real.

[Pete Holmes]

Summer squash.

[Valerie]

Summer squash.

[Pete Holmes]

Succotash. You do that and I'll do the whistles. Because it's hard to do both.

[Valerie]

Summer. Summer squash.

[Pete Holmes]

I Can't do

[Valerie]

summer squash.

[Pete Holmes]

That's hard. I. You did great. I don't think I nailed it. I.

[Valerie]

Is that the rabbit from Winnie the Pooh?

[Pete Holmes]

He's not a rabbit, but.

[Valerie]

Oh, there's. It's the beat. The beaver or the badger or the beaver or gopher. Gopher, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Summer earthquake.

[Valerie]

Oh, you're right.

[Pete Holmes]

Anyway, I was. Oh, the joke that you made. I was like, I swim every day. I got that idea from Mr. Rogers, amongst others. I was like, I love Mr. Rogers. I love that he swam every day. There's something just sort of optically about it. That's right. It's like flowing with resistance.

[Valerie]

It's.

[Pete Holmes]

It's not like just. Well, it's dropping so many ways, a million ways.

[Valerie]

And like, one of them is that you are so big.

[Pete Holmes]

Nothing picks me up.

[Valerie]

Like. And like hiking and yoga is just so hard on a big body.

[Pete Holmes]

Trudging it around.

[Valerie]

Yeah. And then this is your weightless. You were.

[Pete Holmes]

You know when a fit person throws on a giant backpack and they're like, woof. I'm like, that's me all day. I'm carrying my.

[Valerie]

Already carrying that weight filled with guts.

[Pete Holmes]

It's all guts and ass, and I can't put it down.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But. Yeah. So I don't want to bore people with why I love swimming because I do feel like I love boring people about why I love swimming. I. It's just to serve the punchline. I'm looking at my body. I think you're there. And I go, yeah.

[Ad Voice]

I was.

[Pete Holmes]

This is. This is as good as I can do. This is daily, daily effort. And you go, I'm doing what Mr. Rogers does. Why don't I look like Captain America? I was like, oh, my God, look at who you're copying. Just like. That's a swimmer's bod. It's just kind of like a healthy. Relatively healthy. But like, let's be real. Mr. Rogers looked no shade.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

He looked a little weak.

[Valerie]

Scrawny.

[Pete Holmes]

He looked scrawny. If you puss. Pushed Mr. Robert.

[Valerie]

If you pushed mister.

[Pete Holmes]

If you pushed Mr. Ro.

[Valerie]

You.

[Pete Holmes]

I think he would go farther than you expected.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You'd be like, oh, I thought being my hero had girth.

[Valerie]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, I thought just your own self worth would weigh you down.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But he would go far and you'd apologize.

[Valerie]

So anyway, this is also the disappointing thing about. Go ahead.

[Pete Holmes]

No, go ahead.

[Valerie]

Just about aging that I'm finding as well is that it's like, I think you and I, there are people who are Just they're, they're genetically more inclined to be muscular. You.

[Podcast Announcer]

Facts.

[Valerie]

And to like, you know, obviously, like so much of it is genetics and you and I are similar in this way. But then getting older also is like, you have to do like double what you would do in your 20s to get the same results.

[Podcast Announcer]

Swimming.

[Pete Holmes]

I swim for 40 minutes. Couldn't wait to tell everybody. I swim for 40 minutes every day. And I look like I don't do anything.

[Valerie]

I mean, I don't think that's true.

[Pete Holmes]

But you look like. Nor. I don't want to say normal.

[Valerie]

Nora Ephron.

[Pete Holmes]

You look like Nora Ephron. I do kind of look more like. Than Chris Evans. I look more like Nora Ephron. Yeah. You know what's funny is when you talk about how some people and I believe. No, I'm certain that the cat's out of the bag in the scientific community that there's certain bodies that are genetically predisposed to be certain ways.

[Valerie]

Of course, yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And I do feel like the naturally fit looking people, the people that just kind of came out of the womb with biceps and.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And chesticles. God, I hated that. There's a corollary here to say people like me, things went my way in my career. I'm so grateful. This isn't me just being like. It's actually quite the opposite. I'm saying there is like a right place, right time, right. Right community, right parents, right self love, worth, right opportunity, right. All these, all these things lined up for me. And then what I've been fascinated with lately is people that are successful in any field will often look back and be like, well, it's because of this, this and this. When really you were just kind of born in a sense with abs and. Do you see what I'm saying?

[Valerie]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like the born fit people are like. Like it really. If I'm being devilishly delicious, sometimes like a skinny, muscly person will have a heart attack. I'm not. I don't want anyone to have a heart attack. But you're like, right, because you're not doing.

[Valerie]

Yeah, you're not doing right.

[Pete Holmes]

All you eat is Arby's. This is just your born in chassis.

[Valerie]

I know.

[Pete Holmes]

And now you had a reminder that you're just as. Look, I heard, I heard fat is back. And I'm saying you're just as fat as I am. Yeah, you actually.

[Valerie]

Fat is not.

[Pete Holmes]

Fat is back.

[Valerie]

I heard it was back.

[Pete Holmes]

It's gone.

[Valerie]

And then now we're in heroin chic again.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, No, I thought the word fat was.

[Valerie]

Oh. Oh.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, it's my understanding that, no, you can't. We can't speak for a whole community, and certainly not one so large.

[Valerie]

Oh, my God. I do not sign off on this.

[Pete Holmes]

I meant there's a large number of them. If you took that another. Listen, you can't speak for a whole community. It's a person by person basis. But I've heard that some people online are like, don't call me heavy. Don't call me overweight, bitch. I'm fat like that.

[Valerie]

This is. This is what. And I might be wrong. This is sort of. I think the angle is that fat is not. Shouldn't be a bad word because it's not a bad thing. So it's like, the idea is like, if our. And this is a perfect example. My. Our friend just shared that their kid got called fat. And she. The response that you should have is,

[Pete Holmes]

I'm fat, but you're ugly and I can diet. That's what we said in the 80s. I may be fat, but you're ugly, and I can diet. That was the line.

[Valerie]

Oh, my God.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, I'm fat, but you're ugly. I can diet. I know I'm gonna keep saying.

[Valerie]

So insane. It's so insane what we've come from.

[Pete Holmes]

That was what we said. Yeah, I may be fat, but you're ugly. That was like, what can you imagine?

[Valerie]

I mean, if it's honest, at our

[Pete Holmes]

school said that it would be in the local newspaper.

[Valerie]

Oh, a hundred percent Ohio. Are you kidding me? At our little precious school. It would be like. It would break the community.

[Pete Holmes]

It would break the community. Yes, there would be. Before that happened and after that happened. Yes, in Boston. We called that every day.

[Valerie]

I know it's a lot of. There's been a lot of progress in this way.

[Pete Holmes]

Sure has.

[Valerie]

But that's it. It's like. It's like, okay, you were called fat. You know, how. How did that make you feel? And like. And then also just like this.

[Pete Holmes]

Come on. I'm from the 80s. I'm from the 80s. No.

[Valerie]

No. Daughter.

[Pete Holmes]

I feel you have a. I got a great kind of mean joke machine

[Valerie]

running, and I'm stopping it 100 intentionally.

[Pete Holmes]

All right.

[Valerie]

You have a daughter. This stuff matters.

[Pete Holmes]

Real silver bullet.

[Valerie]

This really matters.

[Pete Holmes]

That was a Coors Light you just threw at me.

[Valerie]

It really matters. I mean, I'm telling you, our. It's insane how. How quickly it. Like, I've seen it happen in. In families where the. They are very body positive, like, externally but internally, they feel very negatively about their bodies or they have biases against smaller, fitter bodies.

[Pete Holmes]

Against.

[Valerie]

I mean. Sorry, for smaller, fitter bodies. And their daughter, very early on, started talking about how she was fat. And they're like, where is this coming from? We never talk like that. And it's like, these kids know how you actually feel.

[Pete Holmes]

It's funny. Can I interject? Not interject, but kind of go sideways with that. First of all, the reason why I'm making those jokes, it's like. It's like. They're just so easy. It's like a day off. It's not cruelty as much as it's just like, oh, easy. It's a room filled with balloons. They're not bad things are bad.

[Valerie]

Lazy.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. Yeah. No, you. You are the only person that can talk to me like that. I don't mean that like a tough guy. I'm just like. It doesn't hurt my feelings at all.

[Valerie]

Well, yeah, because I love you.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I know. I actually think that's a miracle. Like, it doesn't flare up any alarms. I actually just go, like, I think you're right. It is lazy. Yeah, go ahead. I was gonna say you had a heavy joke.

[Valerie]

No, no, no.

[Pete Holmes]

This would be a really funny moment for one.

[Valerie]

It is. Why am I doing that?

[Pete Holmes]

I love it. I love it. I love it.

[Valerie]

I don't know.

[Pete Holmes]

I love it.

[Valerie]

I don't know. It's not attractive.

[Pete Holmes]

What do you feel? Nuts?

[Valerie]

I don't know if it's attractive.

[Pete Holmes]

Baby, have you been in the world?

[Valerie]

No.

[Pete Holmes]

Have you? When you hear a laugh that re. The reason we do fake laughs is because they're so great. And then you hear a real one.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like, oh, this is what started the trend.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's like when you have sex, it's like, oh, this is why we have pornography. It's like, because you taste the real thing. This was so good.

[Valerie]

We were like, more makeup.

[Pete Holmes]

Make it. Oh, but it happens so rarely. Just do it.

[Valerie]

Just do it. Don't wait. Just do it.

[Pete Holmes]

That will never be as funny as it just was.

[Valerie]

No, it was perfect.

[Pete Holmes]

It immediately raised an alarm. I was like, I could do a bit about that. But I was like, no, it'll never be as funny as. The guy that invented pornography is like, we'll just do it on Tuesday.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

At 11.

[Valerie]

But it happens so rarely.

[Pete Holmes]

Just do it.

[Valerie]

Just do it.

[Pete Holmes]

Just do it. Get together and do it. But what if we don't feel like it? Just do it anyway. Just do it. We'll film it anyway. What I'm saying is authenticity is. Is just the greatest thing.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And there's no AI tangent here. I'm just saying, like, I think we're in a time, as I've said, a million that like a real laugh. Real sex, real media. You know how fucking close I am. Why'd I swear? You know how close I am to giving in and just being a physical media person. Like, I'm. I'm starting to be like my brother, who's been physical media for, like, way before it was cool. It's like he was right.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Matt McCarthy is right.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Why are we renting these things from these companies? It's just another scam. So you want to watch Top gun, Maverick. Great. 1499amonth.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

What used to pay for the office once? You remember when the office come jump jumping streamers or Mad Men was on Netflix and then it was on itunes. I bought it on dvd, then I subscribed to Netflix, and then it moved to itunes and I bought it again.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

That's fudgeing nuts.

[Valerie]

Well, they know what they're doing.

[Pete Holmes]

They know we can talk about the other side of my butt and be like, brilliant.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You just sold me the same thing. Three more.

[Valerie]

Probably because you're controlling how I can watch it.

[Pete Holmes]

And the physical media people are like, nah, be kind of rewind and be kind to yourself and own it. Why rent when you can own?

[Valerie]

Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I don't know. We do have a drawer still full of DVD plate.

[Pete Holmes]

I know. We have marvelous Ms. Maisel from the award season, and it's always, like, sold in a giant perfume bottle. There's DVDs in it.

[Valerie]

Oh, my God, we have. That marvelous Ms. Maisel campaign was huge. It, like, in. It made an imprint on our lives and we didn't even watch the show.

[Pete Holmes]

I haven't seen it, but. And I'm not trying to throw shade on that show in particular, but it's my understanding that award seasons and stuff, they don't happen by accident. They're like, people are pushing.

[Valerie]

It's so much work.

[Pete Holmes]

When I see who gets. I guess this is a little catty, but when I see who gets nominated for, like, the best standup, I'm like, oh, this is like a. This is a thing.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That sounded like a whole campaign. I do want to say everyone that was nominated for best standup deserved it. Deserved it. These are great specials. But I'm like, yeah, there's a reason you're not Going to see name here. Pete Holmes. No. That is so funny because I'm not out there on the campaign trail. Like, Pete would love to see you out there on the campaign trail. Give it a go. What are you gonna cold call the academy? Hi. Get the fuck out of here. Those people had great specials. I'm just jealous. Shut the fuck up.

[Valerie]

Anyway, I will say that that particular. It was the season one of Marvel Marvelous. And it was like one of the last times it was physical media for screeners.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

And it came in like this thing that looked like a tube.

[Pete Holmes]

Tube looked like a hat box.

[Valerie]

Yes. And it also came with several, like, I would say 10, even 7 to 10 posters.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Like 50s looking ad posters, which are very cool. And I've kept because I'm like, I think these are cool. I might like hang these up.

[Pete Holmes]

But is that where we got those?

[Valerie]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Those are great.

[Valerie]

Aren't those great?

[Pete Holmes]

Those are really nice.

[Valerie]

It was like so much effort into this marvelous. Ms. Maisel.

[Pete Holmes]

What's interesting, one of the things that's interesting about being alive, especially at 47, and this ties into how I had Rupert on my podcast this week, is there are still things like when you see something you actually want, or like, it could be a movie, it could be a song, it could be an object. Isn't there just such a. Oh, thank God.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

You're just sort of like, I knew I was alive.

[Valerie]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what I mean? I knew I liked, like, it feels like we just saw the drama, the Robert Pattinson Zendaya movie.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I have a Zen diagraph of who likes that movie. And it's just a circle and it writes me in it. And it writes me in it. I have no notes on that. I have a Zen diagram of who likes that movie and it's a circle and it writes me in it. That movie is phenomenal.

[Valerie]

So good.

[Pete Holmes]

What, what was I going to say, though? I was. I was talking about how I'm not good at laughing at myself. But we went. Somehow we got to the drama.

[Valerie]

Oh, oh.

[Pete Holmes]

When. When Rupert did my podcast or when you see a really well made poster or Kate Bowler, her book Joyful, anyway, just came out and she just did my podcast and one of the reasons was she sent out this incredible.

[Valerie]

It was very cool gift box to,

[Pete Holmes]

you know, podcast peoples that.

[Valerie]

It was like a miniature.

[Pete Holmes]

She designed it.

[Valerie]

That's.

[Pete Holmes]

So you open the box and it came with like a little sofa, it came with a little chandelier, a little book. Is the little living room. There was a frame like a golden. Like there are all these pictures on the wall and one of them is of you. They're personalized, so it's a picture of me with a golden frame on it. And me and Lila got glue out. I don't think we did it properly. We just super glued it. But we made this little doll set basically. And then like I wanted to have Kate on the podcast, but that did sort of nudge it over the line

[Podcast Announcer]

and she knows it.

[Pete Holmes]

That's why you do it.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

They give you like this experience and marvelous. Ms. Maisel is like, let's give them these posters. They're more likely to watch it. Amazon Health AI presents Painful Thoughts why

[Ad Voice]

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[Valerie]

to my cold sore problem?

[Ad Voice]

Now I'm stuck down a rabbit hole filled with images of alarmingly graphic sores in various stages of ooze. I can clear my search history, but I can never unsee that.

[Pete Holmes]

Don't go down the rabbit hole. Amazon Health AI gets you the right care fast. Healthcare just got less painful.

[Podcast Announcer]

This episode is sponsored by Quince. The older I get, the less interested I am in wearing stiff, complicated clothes. I just want clothes that breathe, feel good, and still make me look like I tried, tried at least a little bit.

[Pete Holmes]

I want to look good.

[Podcast Announcer]

And that's why I genuinely love quints. Their stuff somehow feels elevated and super comfortable at the same time. And now that it's summer, especially here in California, I've been loving their linen shirts, especially in the heat, and they look relaxed and cool without trying too hard. And Val for the nights, because it's a desert out here at night, it's actually quite cool. She picked out some of their lightweight sweaters that I have been wearing nonstop as well.

[Pete Holmes]

And she is over the moon. She loves.

[Podcast Announcer]

She loves me in a sweater.

[Pete Holmes]

What can I say?

[Podcast Announcer]

And Quint's European linen pants and shirts are the perfect warm weather upgrade, starting at just 34 bucks. Their tees are incredibly soft, easy to wear, and everything is priced 50 to 80% less than similar luxury brands because they work directly with ethical factories to cut out the middleman. So you're basically just paying for quality, not giant brand markups. And they got other stuff too. They got bedding, cookware, furniture. It's one of those brands that does everything so well. And they do a lot. They do a lot. Not just clothes. Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quint.com weirdo for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada too. That's Q U I n c e.com weirdo for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com weirdo Years ago, before they even sponsored this podcast, Valerie and I bought a Casper mattress. We went to a showroom, we tried it out, we ordered one, it came in a box, we cut it open and it like unfolded before our eyes. And it's been a game changer. There are certain things in life you just shouldn't phone in. Don't half measure your mattress. Get the best mattress. And that's what Casper is. Consumer Reports even named Casper's the One Mattress. Their top rated all foam mattress of 2026.

[Pete Holmes]

I love it.

[Podcast Announcer]

I love their pillows.

[Pete Holmes]

If you're not in the market for

[Podcast Announcer]

a whole mattress, get Casper pillows. That's upgraded every bed we have in the house. Casper pillows, Casper Mattress. They make high quality mattresses designed for consistently comfortable sleep night after night. And they're super highly rated. These are dope mattresses. They have a hundred night risk free trial and over 110,000 five star reviews. That's how you know you can try this out without stressing about it. You get the risk free trial and you know so many satisfied customers, me and Val being two of them right now you can save up to 30% on mattresses and up to 35% on everything else. When you go to Casper.com one last time that C A S P R dot com and save up to 30% on the mattress you deserve.

[Pete Holmes]

In fact, I'll never forget. I don't think it worked, but my

[Podcast Announcer]

professor, Mark Stevik told a story about

[Pete Holmes]

a guy who was sending a screenplay. It was back in the day when they didn't just have AI read it and it has a hallucination and it's like, I think this is about Jell O Pudding Pops taking over the world. You're like, no, it's not. It's called Tears of our Passion. Oh, sorry. It's about lesbian Jell O Pudding Pops.

[Valerie]

I think I could go to the bathroom. I don't think you need me here.

[Pete Holmes]

Have I been going?

[Valerie]

Go ahead.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh my God.

[Valerie]

Keep going.

[Pete Holmes]

Was it mentioning a Pudding Pops that made me want to go?

[Valerie]

Yeah, it was a long. Yeah, it was Poopy Pups.

[Pete Holmes]

Anyway, he sent, let's say Warner Brothers or other places, the script in a giant box with a one of those wicker chairs. You know those wicker chairs that almost look like teacups?

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And a cigar and like a little table. Wow. And it said on the note Said, open box, remove chair, smoke cigar, read script.

[Valerie]

Wow.

[Pete Holmes]

And I was like, that's pretty brilliant. I don't think it worked. No, it doesn't, because these executives just go, ha, ha, ha.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Nothing to disrupt our orgy. No, no, not native. No, not native. Satanic.

[Valerie]

You're right. You're right. I know. I was trying to go for St. Dan.

[Pete Holmes]

I like that. I accidentally came out, I'll tell you.

[Valerie]

Well, it also makes me think of Arrested Development when Tobias sends his. His, like, packet or whatever. His, like, headshot, and it's like, it's filled with glitter, and the person going through it is, like, so annoyed.

[Pete Holmes]

That is so perfect. And it. There's those things that are right on the line of perfect and bush league. Like, if someone sent me that, I would burn it on principle.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

But I also. If people. And it does happen. It used to happen. People would send something to our house, and it's just, like, an instant. It's not. It's not with hate, but you're just like. You can't go guessing waterfalls. Please stick to the rivers and the lakes. Same with email. I've said that a million times. People guess my email if they don't open with. Sorry for guessing your email.

[Valerie]

Yeah, sorry. What an invasion.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, not even that. Just, like, acknowledge it. Because I'm, like, reading it. I'm like, do I know a guy named Sven McDuck? I think I would remember that somehow we've gone a place that's boring. All I want to say is that it's not boring. You know what I'm saying? I am not good at laughing at myself.

[Valerie]

I don't think this is true. Please make your argument, and then I'll tear it down.

[Pete Holmes]

It really depends. Well, that's a good point, because if you do it, I love it. Your mother was in town, and with all love and respect to her, I. This isn't even about her. Because the joke was inbounds. I just noticed that it, like, really irked me. Yeah, I flexed my muscle. Remember, we're talking about swimming. So my muscles are bigger.

[Valerie]

Brag.

[Pete Holmes]

And I couldn't wait to show Leela my muscle. I'm such a fucking fruit bat.

[Valerie]

You start realizing this is this.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, that's what this podcast is. It's like, talk about your life. Realize you're a fruit bat. Like that. That's what it. And I don't mean fruity. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying, like, realize you're a dingus. I'm Talking to Leela, and I go, show me your muscle. And she goes, show me your muscle. I'm changing the story. I just changed it in real time. I just changed revisionist history to make it. So she asked. She didn't. I showed her my muscle. It looked pretty good, and she pinched it. So I'm flexing my bicep, she pinches it, and it hurt, and I went, ow. And it was totally. When I. When Lela pinches me, which she often does, or bites me, which she often does, I'll let out, like, a very clean and authentic. Like, I won't try and suppress it at all. And ow. Because I'm trying to teach her people are real and they have feelings. Right. So that it was in that spirit that I went like, oh, and your mom had a field day.

[Valerie]

I mean, it was very funny the way that it went. I'm not even saying, because you were like, feel it.

[Pete Holmes]

Who Ow, bro? It was like, Aziz.

[Valerie]

That's like, an Aziz thing. Yeah. That's like. That's how his character was in Parks and Rec constantly, where he's like, oh, my fingers.

[Pete Holmes]

That makes my. Anyway, I. By the way, that's fine. I don't know why my fingies bugged me, but when you do it. Absolutely. A zero out of a thousand, I

[Valerie]

would say you would even laugh. You would like it.

[Pete Holmes]

But for some reason.

[Valerie]

Yeah, I get it.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. But what is that? It's me going, like, we haven't gotten. There's a threshold that you cross. Well, and some people's thresholds are at zero. It's like, welcome to the party.

[Valerie]

I think you. Because, like, another thing that really bothers you is when people say, like, but, um. Or like, har har or whatever.

[Pete Holmes]

Liza and Jazz and I just had a huge thing about that, where people go, hard, hard, hard, hard.

[Valerie]

Yeah. I hate it.

[Pete Holmes]

I go, well, if I love them. We've talked about this before. I go, just so you know, that's, like, in the clown community. That's one of our slurs.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And we've covered that before. But I mean that. I mean that people should know.

[Valerie]

Yeah, people should know.

[Pete Holmes]

I think.

[Valerie]

I think to anyone, it's not nice. So that's not a good example. But I guess what I'm saying is, if somebody has already proved to you that they know you, they see you, they're on your side. You. Like when they roast you or laugh at you, because it's showing that they know you.

[Pete Holmes]

Yes.

[Valerie]

When that hasn't happened yet in the relationship. And they make a joke that actually kind of shows that they don't know you. That's the offense.

[Podcast Announcer]

Right.

[Valerie]

So it's not that you don't laugh at yourself, it's that you only laugh at yourself.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Valerie]

When you know you're safe to laugh at yourself with the person.

[Pete Holmes]

It's true. And then there was the other joke. This is weird, but your mom made where. Remember, I've always wanted to have a sub zero fridge. And Sub zero fridges are incredibly expensive. And by the way, as I'm saying this, we watched some movie. What was it? The Martin Short documentary.

[Valerie]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Where they reference a sub zero fridge.

[Valerie]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

Which is what Murders in the Building is, by the way. Murders in the Building is like apartments that have sub zero fridges, which I am. I tease you for being on Instagram and you buy some fucking scale or something. Bitch, not you. I'm the same. Except I watch television and I go, sub zero fridge. That's the fridge that lets you know your food is cold and you've made it.

[Valerie]

Yes. And it has been since the 90s.

[Pete Holmes]

I would like to see When I got it was some Nor not Nor Ephron.

[Valerie]

Who is Nancy Myers?

[Pete Holmes]

Nancy Myers. Yeah, it got me. Yeah, it totally got me. And I was like, I'm going to get one of those. And then our fridge broke and I was like in a very good mood. Dangerous combo.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Bought one. And then you told your mom how much it cost. Why? I'm not mad at it, but why? And then she.

[Valerie]

Sure. She asked.

[Pete Holmes]

Probably. And then something came up about money. And your mom was like, well, you just bought a fridge. And I was livid.

[Valerie]

You were so mad.

[Pete Holmes]

You told me that you could. I smiled. I even smiled, but my nose flared.

[Valerie]

Your nostrils flared in this way that

[Pete Holmes]

if I could control that, I'd be the greatest actor in the world. If I could do that on command, because it's not. Anybody can act a grenade going off, but can you act that you just swallowed a grenade and it went off in your belly and you're like, totally. So mad. But who knew that was my button? But again, if you had done it and you said that, I'd be like, that's right, baby. I'm the king of the fridge. Like, I wouldn't even mind.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

What's my deal with you and your mom?

[Valerie]

I know.

[Pete Holmes]

I love her.

[Valerie]

I understand. But I get why that's touchy. This is. Okay, let's. Let's put a pin in the mom thing, because I have something to say there and I just wanted to say this is such an interesting thing that my. My acting teacher. I can't. I feel like I do it, not talk about acting without it being obnoxious. But a great thing that she said says about it is that, like, people, specifically men, love to overact being angry. It's like, I. And remember, there was that thing going around with Adam Driver from Marriage Story, which I actually loved that movie. And I loved him in that movie where he's, like, really going off.

[Pete Holmes]

Wait. Like, acting hard in a scene.

[Valerie]

Yeah. And, like. And I think it became sort of like a punchline I. That I. I saw. I loved that movie. And when I saw it in real time, it didn't bother me. But I know what she means. And she's like, it's not interesting to see somebody act mad. It's interesting to see somebody trying not to be mad.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

Because when we're angry, that's the thing we're trying to do.

[Pete Holmes]

I feel that Adam Driver is somewhere buying clove cigarettes. I don't know what he's doing, but he just went whole, like. I bet. I really just feel like. Like, in Lena's book, she says that she fell for, like, the genius spell. Like, he's a genius. I'm still under that spell. And I'm like, I'm sure he and Noah Baumbach had a huge conversation about how exciting and fresh it would be to do it, that all actors always act like they don't want to be mad. And he's like, no, I'm mad. Haven't you ever felt that way? You know what I mean?

[Valerie]

I'm sure it was a deliberate choice. But I. But, yeah, I do think that there's. I'm like, I don't believe that all actors are trying to act not mad. Like, watch any David Mamet thing.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, you made a powerful enemy today. My father.

[Valerie]

No, I love it. No, I know, but, like, they are just going full force.

[Pete Holmes]

No, I don't think they are.

[Valerie]

Well, not always. You're right. I love David Mamet and I do think. But I guess that's not a great example. I'm like, watch, like, Wall Street.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, I know what you're trying to say, and I don't know Wall street well enough to. This is great. You made your point.

[Valerie]

Yes. Okay.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm just like, Ed Harris and Glenn Gary. Glenn Ross. I'm like, he's. He's.

[Valerie]

No.

[Pete Holmes]

Trying to keep it.

[Valerie]

And actually, David Mammon is a bad example because people, we've talked about this. The thing that it's like, just say the words. Yeah. Anyway. But men, like, men be likened to act mad. That's what I'm trying to say.

[Pete Holmes]

And. And I just watched a great video where it was like, the Oscar often goes to most acting, not best acting.

[Valerie]

Oh.

[Pete Holmes]

And I was like, that's true.

[Valerie]

That's so true.

[Podcast Announcer]

Isn't that true?

[Valerie]

That's so good.

[Pete Holmes]

And they weren't even saying, like, all the. Like, Sean Penn in.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

What was it? This is a terrible time. It's happening over there. One battle after another.

[Valerie]

Yeah, He.

[Pete Holmes]

He was like. His performance was amazing. Those are the ones that get the Oscars. It's most acting.

[Podcast Announcer]

This is simple. What is it? Simple Dan.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, Simple Jack.

[Valerie]

Simple Jack.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm not saying that was a Simple Jack performance. I'm saying actors sometimes go for the Simple Jack.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And they don't get it. Like the other sister. Where was the love for the other sister? It's like the Academy was like, we're on to you. You know what I mean? We're not falling for that one again.

[Valerie]

We know what you're doing.

[Pete Holmes]

Pacino did Blind Tom Hanks did.

[Valerie]

Whatever that was.

[Pete Holmes]

Whatever that was. That's how they say. Yeah. And then by the time the other sister came out, we're like, nice try, Giovanni.

[Valerie]

Going back to moms. There is something about moms. And this is like. You know, this has been coming up because. Leela, I signed up for camping. The. The school camping trip.

[Pete Holmes]

Bring this up.

[Valerie]

Should I not.

[Pete Holmes]

No, you can.

[Valerie]

Well, I'm not gonna. We don't have to talk long about it. I just am saying I didn't know where my brain went.

[Pete Holmes]

Here, let me do that again.

[Valerie]

Oh, so she is doing, like, a class camping trip. They're gonna do one night. She's seven. She still sleeps in our room. I'm like, well, she's not gonna sleep in a tent without us in a. Like, 45 minutes away from us.

[Pete Holmes]

Can I. Let me know when you want me to interject.

[Valerie]

And I. So I. I like. But she told us she didn't want us to go. And I've been feeling very conflicted about this because I'm like, I want to support her independence, but also, I know that nighttime feels different to kids.

[Pete Holmes]

You know what you did last night?

[Valerie]

What?

[Pete Holmes]

When I was reading her books, I turned the light off because she was. She brought up the camping trip. This is a real thing. And I think it's more interesting even to the people that don't have kids. It's a moment in Your life. That happened when you told your parents, I'm ready to go into the. Into the dark, into the cave, into the scary thing, into the school trip, into the. Whatever it is, into the overnight camp. Like, something's happening. And Leela is adamant, and I turn the lights off, and I went, baby, I know you always feel like you want to go on this camping trip alone, but, like, just, like, let's turn the lights off. And I did. And I looked out the window at the trees, and I was like, okay, just look out there. Like, you'll be out there. We won't. We won't be. I wasn't trying to scare. I was just like, we won't be there. You'll be out in that, and we won't be there. And she's like, that just made me more excited. And I was like, I think my. My side of this. I was gonna say my dad's side of this is like, this might be the moment to let her do it. Like, to go. Like, go be, I think, as brave as I think you are.

[Valerie]

Yes. Okay. I mean. I mean, yeah, I have that feeling.

[Pete Holmes]

I know you do, but I'm also worried, and I'm.

[Valerie]

And I also just like, parenting baby. But also the. I see the argument for, like, yeah, so there is a chance that she. My biggest fear is that she will be scared, but too embarrassed to say that she's scared because she's with all of her classmates, so she's just going to quietly suffer in, like, the world's longest night.

[Pete Holmes]

Speaking of which, not to compound this, but we've always Talked about how 7 is the age where they leave the garden, which is biblical language for, like, they lose their innocence. Like, maybe they break a bone or they have a betrayal or something. Something. Or a grandparent dies or whatever it might be, and they're just like, oh, yeah. And, like, is. I. I've been watching Leland. I'm like, she really feels like she's still in the garden to me.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't know.

[Valerie]

There's certain ways where she. She's. I see her leaving it, but that.

[Pete Holmes]

I know. You mean.

[Valerie]

I could see an argument for, like, yeah, that is a possibility. And if that happens, that's also valuable. Like, in the. Like, we can't keep our kid from suffering. We just have to, like, help them through it and to, like, build resilience. Anyway, I didn't even mean to get into all of that, but I. I was like, okay, she wants to go alone because she wants to sleep in a tent. With one of her friends. I'm, like, best friends with her best friend's mom. So I was like, I've got it. The. The mom and I will sleep in a tent, and so the two kids can sleep in a tent. And, like, I figured it out. So I excitedly told her that I, like, cracked a way that we could do this. And she started crying and was like, I don't want you to go. I don't want you there. And I was like, but you'll, like, you know, I'll give you your independence.

[Pete Holmes]

It's one of the worst things of life. You think you're bringing someone a cake, and then they.

[Valerie]

Yeah. And then she was like, finally it came down to her saying, if somebody has to go, then I want Daddy to go, not you. And I was like. It was like a dart just, like, in my stomach. And I was like. But then I tried to, like, not have an ego about it, and I was like, okay, well, help me understand that. Like, do I embarrass you? So I did introduce the idea of, like, do I embarrass you?

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, but.

[Valerie]

And she was like, yes. I was like, oh, God. And. But I didn't, you know. And I was like, okay, what do I do that embarrasses you? And. And she brought up a time that I did library in her class. Like, the library. I volunteered to walk the kids to the library. And she asked me to help her say a word. And I, like, sounded it out, like, the way the teacher does. Like, I was like, you know, couldn't. You know, whatever. And she was, like, really embarrassed by that. And she had told me that, and I said, thank you so much for telling me that. I won't ever do that again. I'll try to remember, you know. Anyway, so we just had this, like, talk about it, and then I just really spiraled because I was like, you know, I just remember feeling embarrassed by my mom. And I love my mom very much, but, like, that is just something that I really was hoping I could get out of. Is like, leela, I don't know why,

[Pete Holmes]

having been here with you this whole time, I'm like, you're not an embarrassing mom. And it's. But it's completely true. It's not me saying that I am friends with so many. I am an embarrassing person. In fact, that's what I was excited to interject with. When I pick Leila up, I grab her friends and I hold them an inch from my face, and I say, where's my money? That's My bit with the kids and like, Leila is at the age where she should and could be like, can you please? Or roll her eyes or whatever.

[Valerie]

Yeah, but I think that's what it is, is that you are still really fun. And the kids, her friends, all like you. I think her friends feel neutral about me. So you get to go because. Because her friends like you. It's start. We're starting the transition where the friends start to have more and more authority than we do. So, like, what they think about each of us is actually kind of more important to her than what she thinks about each of us.

[Pete Holmes]

Right.

[Valerie]

But yeah. So I, you know, obviously, I'm like, this is just one instance. I don't know if, like, I. If I really embarrass her. She's really digging her heels in. Like, we had a whole conversation about it last night.

[Pete Holmes]

Again, if I had to predict where it's going. She's going alone.

[Valerie]

I know. And she. But she was like, yeah, she was like. I was like. I said. I just, I. I realized because she would get worked up every time I said, can you tell me why I embarrass you? And. And she was. Or what I do that embarrasses you? And she'd just be like, everything, like, getting really worked up. And I thought this was a good moment. I was like, oh, baby, I'm not asking you so that you prove to me that I'm embarrassing. Yeah, I believe you that I'm embarrassing. I'm asking you so that you can tell me what it is so that I can change. Because I don't want to not ever get to be around you.

[Pete Holmes]

Running for re election. I'm sorry it's a landslide.

[Valerie]

But this is the feeling. So this. And I might like.

[Pete Holmes]

Champion.

[Valerie]

Thank you for saying that.

[Pete Holmes]

I actually feel like I might cry champion. That was a plus. And to know that parenting is so often diagnosing or recognizing, like, they're saying this because they feel this. They think I don't believe them. Yeah, it's amazing.

[Valerie]

Well, thank you. And I feel emotional saying this, but I feel like that's the feeling that I had was. I was like, I'm not saying this is true, but I was just like, oh, it doesn't matter. Like, a girl will always feel embarrassed by her mom or like, it's so tricky and not to be, like, gender normative. But like, everybody told me when I was pregnant, when I was pregnant that, like, they're like, oh, moms and daughters. That relationship is just so fraught. Fraught. And, And I was just like, no way. Like, I'm not. If I'm. I'm good at loving, like, I'm good at this. I'm gonna be close with my kid. And there's like times like this where I'm just like, oh, my God, does it not matter what I do? Like, there's always going to be something in between us because, like, we're a mother and a daughter and there's like, no, there's nothing I can do to not be embarrassing or what it is. I know.

[Pete Holmes]

I hope I know that. I. I kind of hate when people say catastrophizing. But like, so often when we're having a parenting feeling, the solution is going, like, this isn't the whole story. This is one moment, you know, I mean, you want to name it?

[Valerie]

You're right.

[Pete Holmes]

Give it the name of a war in the year and the duration on all this stuff. And it's like, no, you're dealing. You're. You're navigating something that's really tricky. And you're navigating it really beautifully.

[Valerie]

Thank you, my love.

[Pete Holmes]

And I don't know. Look, I. I hold two things at once. I really believe Leela. And I'm also so, like, it's complicated. You have these two grown up people asking you to articulate your feelings when even a lot of grownups can't do that. Most grownups can't do that.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And you're right. That's why you picked up on, like I said, embarrassing. So we're like building this story and that's great. We're trying to help her build a story. But I really think that she just feels the movie is Leela goes alone.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

She does get scared. And then you come walking out of the woods and she runs towards you.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And you guys hug and it's like you guys had a hard put down last night.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because of some stuff. Like she wanted a smartwatch or whatever.

[Valerie]

But it wasn't even that. She let out a lot of cries because I think, oh, my God, I'm gonna cry. I think we're both feeling the, like, sadness of her not wanting me to go. Like, I think she feels it too. I think there's like a.

[Pete Holmes]

Of her not wanting you to go. Yeah.

[Valerie]

Yeah. I think there is a individuation that's happening that's like natural and healthy and good where she's like, I don't want my mommy there. Like, I. I don't.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, like, there's no rule. There's A rule. No stuffies too. You can't bring stuffies. Yeah, which is sort of like a

[Valerie]

kind of bullshit I'm pushing back on. I told her I was going to defend that one, but it.

[Pete Holmes]

But that's the spirit of this little adventure for these kids.

[Podcast Announcer]

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[Ad Voice]

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[Dr. Susan Swick]

I'm Dr. Susan Swick, a child psychiatrist and the host of Talk about Able. This season, I'm talking with parents and experts about how we tackle the everyday challenges of raising kids. We'll get real about those pebble in the shoe issues we all face as parents and how to build resilience and community through our own experiences. Talk About Able Season 2 from Lemonada Media in partnership with Monte Montage Health and their Ohana center for Child and Family Mental Health is out now.

[Valerie]

Right? Exactly. And even this is.

[Ad Voice]

So.

[Valerie]

This is really helping me. I, I really see it clearly. I hope this is an interesting podcast

[Pete Holmes]

because I'm sorry, we. We just got nominated for a potty because I.

[Valerie]

That's what's happening is that. Oh, my God, like, all of a sudden I'm seeing it so clearly. It's like so primal. It's like, my kid is 7. She's leaving the garden. And a big part, like, the garden might as well be called the womb or the bush. Like, yeah, gross. But it's like. Or the beaver summer. But it is like. And. And it's like a rite of passage. Like, it's an actual primal. Like, she's going into the wilderness right without me. And I'm saying, like, you're not ready. And she's saying, I am ready.

[Pete Holmes]

And that's why I said my dad perspective is she's gonna go, that's like the dad. Like, it's not hard. It's not. It's. I see what you see.

[Valerie]

Yeah, I'm.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm worried as well. And you go, like, I think this is normal. I think we're right on schedule for her to go. And like, what I hold in my head is the thrill when she comes back and it.

[Valerie]

How proud she'll Be. And I really think she can do it. And it's like, if there's even a chance she can do it, we should let her.

[Pete Holmes]

But you have a trauma about, like, being left alone.

[Valerie]

Yes, I haven't. And I have a nighttime trauma. Like, I spent so many nights terrified, but I. I feel like. So last night when I was putting her down, she started crying because she wants a smartwatch. And. And I said, like, no, but really, it was one of those things where you're like, that's not what this is. She's letting out a lot of cries, and she cried for a long time. And I do feel proud of this. Like, I just didn't. I just said, like, yeah, you gotta let some sads out. And she wasn't pushing me away. She was, like, holding me, like she wanted me. And, like. And then I just, like, rubbed her body and sang to her for, like, a long time while she cried. And I, like. And I knew that she. I knew enough at that moment to be like, she just needs to cry. But I didn't put it together until just now that, like, we were mourning. We're mourning. We're both mourning the same thing. We're mourning that she has to leave and that, like, oh, God, it's too much. And that, like, she's. And it's, like, healthy and it's appropriate, but she's like, gotta leave my. She's gotta leave my bedroom.

[Pete Holmes]

Well, this. You know, I mentioned the book Iron John a lot, but they. They talk about men and their mothers and mothers that don't let the boys leave or, you know, even unconsciously, the boys will erupt in, like, a period of cruelty.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And that actually happened with me and my mom. We refer to it as a period in our lives where. With no visible exit from her bosom, basically.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I had to become mean to her.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And she's. She talks about it as well. This is not gonna happen.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's not. The reason it's not gonna happen is because you're.

[Valerie]

I'm letting her go. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah. It's because you're doing it now. But, like, there's no avoiding it. There's either. It's like the lottery. You can do it in monthly payments or one lump sum. Me and my mom and I. I'm not proud of this. I don't defend it. I'm just saying it's what happened. Like, I really was, like, still in her. I guess you could say her shadow.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I was like, the only way to do this is to blow both of us up.

[Valerie]

Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And I didn't like it either, of course.

[Valerie]

But, you know, so painful. Well, it's painful for both people, and it's correct. Like, that's the thing is, like, I want to say to her, like, you know, even though this is sad, this is. Right. And. And it's also very exciting. It's not just sad. It's exciting.

[Pete Holmes]

No, it is exciting. And that's what. Look, I'm just trying to relate to what you're saying. When we took Leela to Little League, I felt a terror.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And there were kids. Everybody was pairing up. I could cry. First day of Little League, everyone's pairing up. Leela literally didn't have a partner. Everyone seemed to know each other, by the way. That's not true.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

This was me looking through the lens of my.

[Valerie]

How you perceived it.

[Pete Holmes]

All these kids know each other. Leela doesn't know. They all know how to play. Leela doesn't know how to play. So I was playing catch with her. It broke my heart. I just couldn't tolerate her, even though she would have. I can't even say because I don't believe it, but I think. I have the feeling that in reality, she would have been fine.

[Valerie]

She would have been.

[Pete Holmes]

I was like.

[Valerie]

I think she had had a practice before that one, and that you weren't at. That I was at. So I was like, she can do this.

[Pete Holmes]

But the urge to pick her up and get her the fuck out of there was. Was a 10 out of 10. And I. And you helped me through that. So this isn't a mom thing, and this isn't a failure. And it's. It's. And it's just something I'm really happy. Like, I was talking to a dad the other day about, like, the times Leela's had to go to the ER when she was a baby. I would be the calm one, and you'd be the. The more emotionally involved one. And that doesn't mean over involved.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And then one of us forfeited their right to feel panic because somebody had to be stoic.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

In that case, you were the stoic.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

There have been times you forfeit, and. And in this case, I'm being the stoic one.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And. And there have been times when we're both stoic, and there have been times when we're both a little panicked, but it's. It feels nice to watch what's happening. I feel sad a lot watching you have to negotiate. Leela's pushing away and, and there is kind of like a caveman simplicity where I'm just sort of like, she will go. She will love it. She will be okay.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And you've done that for me. You've gone, she will go, she will love it. She will be okay. And to me, Little league is a thousand times worse than a sleepover, because

[Valerie]

that's my trauma and my, she'll be with her friends. Right.

[Pete Holmes]

And there'll be other moms there. When we knew that Jill was going.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I was like, okay, so if you have a problem, go to Jill. I had, like, a real not bad tunnel vision. A real, like, oversimplified view of it. All your friends will be there. It'll be so fun. You're going to sleep with your friend. If you have a problem, you can go to Jill. You know this mom.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So you have a, you have a. And when I say embarrassing, I mean not coddling.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Non. You know what I mean by cuddling.

[Valerie]

And that's a really good point too, is even the embarrassing thing could be more like, she would be embarrassed. Like, I, you know, my fear is that she'll be scared and she'll be embarrassed.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah.

[Valerie]

To say she's scared. I think what's way more likely is if I went, she, she would be more embarrassed to, like, come into my tent. Yep. She would be embarrassed to come to me.

[Pete Holmes]

Valerie. When I went to college, I brought my grandma's cat pillow with me. And we've talked about this.

[Valerie]

It's so cute.

[Pete Holmes]

It was like a reading pillow. Like a pillow, a giant, firm pillow that my grandma had made. A furry hello Kitty style white cat pillowcase with a tail and two eyes and a bow, like a pink bow. And this was I in a little spectrumy. Maybe that's just me being defensive. I'm not, I'm not a fool.

[Valerie]

I, I, it's a diagnosis.

[Pete Holmes]

I did think, this is the pillow I lean on when I read or when I want to prop myself up. It's my good pillow. Sure, it's a kitty kitty. But, like, I brought it with me to college. And looking back, maybe my brother tried, but, like, somebody should have said, petey, I love you. Let's go get you another pillow.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Because the, and when I say appropriate doesn't make it nice. But the ridicule was my tribe, people my age going, we're not doing that anymore. And I, and sophomore, I think freshman year, I brought it home and didn't bring it back with me. And that was sad. I like, I like that pillow.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And there actually is, as I think there always is, an. A hidden compliment, which is that Leela sees you as soft, safe, nurturing, sweet, like a. Like a stuffed animal. And she wants to sleep on the ground.

[Valerie]

Yeah, you're right. Because when I finally could get her to sleep, say, I was like, can you tell me something that I do that's embarrassing? She's like, you're always kissing and hugging on me.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. She means you make me feel like my. In case of mommy break glass is here.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And. And you said, doesn't daddy kiss and hug you? And she paused and was like, no.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And that's not true.

[Valerie]

It's not true.

[Pete Holmes]

But what she means, and I'm not trying. I'm not saying you should do this. I punch Lila as much as I kiss her.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And that's an exaggeration.

[Valerie]

Not punch. But, yeah, you.

[Pete Holmes]

No, no, no. I do mean punch. Like, fake punches.

[Valerie]

Sure.

[Pete Holmes]

Everybody knows I mean fake punches. Like. Like little, like, box. I do it with all the kids. There was a kid at the farmer's market yesterday that. I don't even know his name. I don't even know his name, but he always attacks me. And he started, like, biting at me, and I just started kicking him. Kicking is the most extreme word for this. Lightly pushing him with my foot. I don't even know this kid's parents. His dad is there, and he goes, that's what he needs. And we were like, yeah. I didn't even hesitate. If the dad was like, what are you doing? I'd be like, my joke is always, the boy must learn. Yeah, it's a joke, but cat pillow. The boy must learn. And it doesn't mean there's a. There's something beautiful. You hold this place in Leela's heart. That's why in the movie, she is scared, and you show up and she runs to you. That's one ending of this movie. But the better ending is she is going to sleep. She's almost asleep, and she wakes up just for a moment, and she realizes that she's not afraid and that she

[Valerie]

did it, which is, of course, what I want.

[Pete Holmes]

Home to you, then.

[Valerie]

Yeah, that's what I want.

[Pete Holmes]

She can't wait to go home and tell her safest home that she was brave in the most controlled way. That's what Disneyland is. Let's feel fear in a controlled way. Camping is let's feel fear in a controlled way. So much parenting is like, how can I scare you in a safe way? Because I need to get you resilient.

[Valerie]

There is something so beautiful about this, like, going back to the mother daughter thing. I think this is one of my favorite things about Ladybird, which is one of my favorite movies, is, you know, her and her mom are, like, having this. They're having this exact thing the entire time. She wants to go away and, like, go to college, and all she talks about is leaving. And her mom is like. They're fighting because her mom basically is so sad about that. Like, that's what's underneath is she's wanting to hold her. And then so there's the tension of that the entire time is that she's trying to individually individuate and the mom is, like, trying to cling. And then she has sex with Timothee Chalamet and finds out that he, like, what? I can't even remember. It's like he's not a virgin or he, like, pretended to be a virgin or something. I can't remember. But it doesn't go well. And then she goes in the car and, like, starts crying. And her and her mom have, like, this very sweet moment where the mom's comforting her.

[Pete Holmes]

That's what I'm saying, Mom. Look, not all moms. Everybody can do it their own way. I'm just saying one archetype with the mom is like the space station, and she's the little spaceman spiff saucer that goes and goes off, does a little journey and then comes back.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's that. That's the. That's why we love things like. What was it? It's not the curse, but the toxic feminine. You are. That is. You know, I'm not saying that.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Saying we love the stories of Hansel and Gretel. Like, I will feed you sweets and I will eat you.

[Valerie]

Yeah. And.

[Pete Holmes]

Or. Or it's.

[Valerie]

What is Bow? There's Bow where she. The short film and the Pixar short film.

[Pete Holmes]

Oh, Bow. I love Bow.

[Valerie]

She eats him.

[Pete Holmes]

I love Bow.

[Valerie]

This is the story. This is like, everywhere.

[Pete Holmes]

Moms want to eat the store, eat the baby.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I don't even. That's just. That's just so Jungian and hard to talk about.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Moms want to eat baby. I don't. So it's not literal, but there's something there. It was. I'm even forgetting her name. It's the mom that. And the daughter. She told her daughter she was sick.

[Valerie]

Oh, yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

It's things like that.

[Valerie]

Joey King's in it.

[Pete Holmes]

Joey King is who I was trying to remember the wonderful Joey King.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

So anyway, that show. The reason I think we're perversely. And I don't mean wrongly, I just mean sort of, like, darkly interested in that. Is because we're like. Right. It exists. And you see it the other way when. And I don't know if Jessica Simpson's dad was really this. I just vaguely have a sense that we know there's the way that dads can go fucking wrong.

[Valerie]

Yeah, of course.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. The Jackson five, Joe Jackson, like this. This sort of thing, but with a girl. It's Jessica. I don't know. I don't mean to put any dad down. Everybody's doing their best. I'm just saying. Are they? Yes, but their best is often awful.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

I. Yeah. I think this was a good conversation, and I really. I honor your vulnerability, and I think it's a beautiful gift you're giving people.

[Valerie]

It's such a trip, man, to, like, love somebody so much and be like. My job is to, like. I mean, like, from the beginning, like, from being, like, from conception, I'm meant to, like, make a soft space and protect you and, like, keep you nourished and cared for and hold you. And to be like, now, my job is to, like, do that and also start letting you go. Like, if I do this right, you won't feel my arms around you. You'll know that they're there, but, like, you won't feel held back by it.

[Pete Holmes]

But then if we do an X ray of Leila, energetically, your arms are constantly wrapped around her heart.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And don't think that I'm not feeling emotion when I say that.

[Valerie]

Oh, whoa. That's a good, good, good cry there.

[Pete Holmes]

I thought you're gonna say good episode. That's the sociopath I am.

[Podcast Announcer]

Oh, this is good podcasting.

[Valerie]

I know.

[Podcast Announcer]

No, not good podcasting. Good for people to hear and hear, share, because we're back to real laughs.

[Pete Holmes]

Well.

[Valerie]

And it. And I do hope it's authentic, is what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I hear you. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I hope it's interesting to people without kids, because it's like you had this. You had this relationship with your mom.

[Pete Holmes]

No. Everybody alive.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Was in some sort. Even if you didn't have mom and dad, it's like you were in some family system.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

That there was. There was a mixture of holding on and letting go.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

And everybody was trying to get that. Right.

[Valerie]

It's also the. The message of life. It's like this. We all. I mean, ideally, you're in love with life. And eventually you have to let it go. Like, this is. This is. The exercise is like letting allow. Not being so unattached that you can't fall in love. Allowing yourself to fall in love and be attached. And also practicing letting go.

[Pete Holmes]

Because life is something that will, in a sense, break your heart or will 100%.

[Valerie]

It is saying, yes, I will allow my heart to break. I was just thinking that that's like. That is what love is in any relationship. When you are saying yes to loving someone, you're saying, I will allow my heart to be broken. Because there's no way that this ends without a broken heart.

[Pete Holmes]

It's the best case scenario is we both die.

[Valerie]

Yeah. And.

[Pete Holmes]

And like Simon, like the Notebook.

[Valerie]

Yeah. And saying yes to life is the same way. You're just saying.

[Pete Holmes]

But also in the same way a life, it's in the Dao Te Ching, if they that find their way in the morning, can happily go in the evening. So it is a. It's a departing.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Of life. It's leaving the thing that's been holding you and nurturing you.

[Valerie]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

So, like, everything is an echo of that.

[Valerie]

Everything is an echo of that. That's right. The life is like the final womb that we leave.

[Pete Holmes]

And it's the journey. That's why we're all. We all have this intuition that we're like. I think that's a beginning. You know what I mean?

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Cool, cool, cool. I think it's very funny that a people that die, who. Whose bodies die have an expression where they go, it's not. It's the journey, not the destination. Isn't that funny?

[Valerie]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

Like, if you were aliens that didn't die and you were watching a species that did die, and one of the species that did die's favorite expressions was, it's the journey, not the destination. You'd be like, yeah, no shit.

[Valerie]

Yeah, obviously, the destination is.

[Pete Holmes]

Your destination is pretty grim. It might be the journey, you fucking idiot.

[Valerie]

Like that should. You shouldn't even. Not the best.

[Pete Holmes]

Why are you saying that? It's like going like, I am here talking to you. Yes, it's. Yeah, it's the journey. But that.

[Podcast Announcer]

That, obviously, that is a wise statement because.

[Pete Holmes]

Yeah, who cares?

[Valerie]

Because it is.

[Pete Holmes]

Because it is.

[Valerie]

Because it is the journey.

[Pete Holmes]

Because it's true.

[Valerie]

Yeah, it is true.

[Pete Holmes]

Because it's true.

[Podcast Announcer]

And people act like it's not true

[Pete Holmes]

and they're like, done.

[Valerie]

Yeah. I was trying to get to. I mean, it's one of the first things that sort of. It's interesting that, you know, we learned the term spiritual bypassing from the more mystical. That came from the mystical world, which is exactly what it sounds like being. Sort of like, I'm. I'm transcending this reality, so I'm not going to grieve the loss or deal with my trauma, but in hindsight, that is what heaven. The idea of heaven is. It's like the ultimate spiritual bypassing is like, well, whatever happens here, it's better there. Yeah. It's just gonna be better there. Let's just get there, you know?

[Pete Holmes]

Right, right.

[Valerie]

Let's just. Let's. It's, like, so interesting that that's one of the ways humans deal. Deal with death is like, well, actually, this one doesn't matter. The one I'm living in right now doesn't matter. There'll be something else later.

[Pete Holmes]

Right. And there's a whole. You have to go. That's a whole other conversation about what I. What. I think we've shifted Christianity to be. Which is like, we're victors over death. Like, we. We don't. We're not. We're winners because we don't lose anymore.

[Valerie]

Yes.

[Pete Holmes]

And believe it or not, I don't think that's actually what it's saying.

[Valerie]

No. And I'm sure there's plenty of Christians who don't believe.

[Pete Holmes]

I know it.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Podcast Announcer]

It used to be the majority.

[Pete Holmes]

I'm talking. Look, I don't want to get into all that.

[Valerie]

Yeah. Yeah. For another time. Yeah. To be continued.

[Pete Holmes]

Tbc. Thank you, Valerie. And for everyone who's worried, we'll have a nice hug. What am I, a psycho? I'm like Mark Zuckerberg. We're gonna have a. We're gonna have ourselves a nice hug after this.

[Valerie]

No, thank you. In the metaverse, I feel great. I honestly, I loved that. I hope that.

[Pete Holmes]

Me too. I loved it, too.

[Valerie]

My only vulnerability is that I hope it was interesting, but I feel it's not our job. It's very helpful.

[Pete Holmes]

Hey, we're podcasters. It's not our job to be interesting. By the way, firm disagree, of course, but everybody knows.

[Valerie]

Yeah.

[Pete Holmes]

The beating heart of this podcast is that you and I are like, I think that was interesting.

[Valerie]

Yeah, that's right.

[Pete Holmes]

It's true. And it's good for us.

[Valerie]

Generally. The more vulnerable you are, the more interesting it is. So we'll just lean on that and keep it crispy.