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Blended States: The Power of Adding More Play and Stillness to Your Life
01:08:48
What if there was a way to find more lightness and joy in your healing journey along the way? In this episode of You Make Sense, Sarah explores the profound impact of two transformative states within the autonomic nervous system: play and stillness. These states aren’t just about fun and quiet—they’re the keys to unlocking creativity, emotional regulation, and deeper connections. Sarah shares practical tips to help you embrace these vital states, from finding freedom through dance and movement to building rituals that invite inner peace. Whether you’re using play to resolve conflict in your relationships or creating a nighttime stillness routine for better sleep, this episode offers a roadmap to navigate life with greater ease and aliveness.
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Hi, I'm Sarah, and welcome to youo Makesense. I'm a somatic experiencing practitioner, an expert on trauma resolution, attachment parts work, and nervous system regulation. This podcast is a manual to understanding your human experience so that you can navigate the world with freedom, ease, empowerment, and create the life that you desire. Remember, you make sense all parts always. I am so excited about this episode. Today we're going to be talking about two very important states within our autonomic nervous system called play in stillness. You know, so often in the healing journey, we can think about doing the work as doing the hard work. That's certainly the way that I was oriented towards my own. My own healing journey and my own personal development journey for a really long time. But what's important to know is that so much of the work that we're doing is amplified by our ability to lean into both the experiences of play and of stillness and bringing greater joy and peace and aliveness into our lives. That is just as imperative as all of the other work that we think about when it comes to our own healing or our own personal development. Now, when I say play and stillness, you might think of those as just the act of play or the act of being, you know, quiet. But these are actually states within our autonomic nervous system. So we talk about this a lot here. Your autonomic nervous system is subcortical, lives inside of your body, below your cortical thinking brain. And its primary job is to keep keep you safe and alive at all costs. Now, there are six states within your autonomic nervous system. And think of a state as like a full embodied experience that you're having. Within each of these states, you have sensations that are a result of being in that state. You have feelings, you have thoughts, you have behaviors arising. And it affects your perception of self, others, and the world around you. So it's literally creating your entire lived experience. And depending on what state you're in with within your nervous system, all of those things will be drastically different. Now, there are three states of self protection or dysregulation, which we've talked about in previous episodes. One's called your sympathetic nervous system. That's your state of mobilizing, often referred to as fight or flight. We have another state called your dorsal vagal complex, which is energy conservation or shutdown. Think of that like a bear in hibernation. That's where things like apathy, depression, hopelessness, feeling like you're in a funk, dissociation, all live, feeling numb out of your body, and so on. And so forth. And then we have this other state of self protection called freeze. Freeze is what's called a blended state. So it's equal parts your sympathetic nervous system. Met with that dorsal vagal complex. So it's two equal and opposite forces coming together. Rendering you stuck. Essentially, it's an experience of I have to, but I can't. I have to, but I can't. So I have all this energy inside, but I feel trapped. So those are three of the six states. And those are all the states of self protection. So we also have three other states that are only experienced when our threat detector, which is called neuroception. Decides that we're safe in our present experience. And if it thinks we are safe, it can call in either our ventral vagal complex. Which is the primary state of regulation. Or it can call in two blended states. One of them being play, which we're here to talk about today. And the other is called stillness, which we're also going to talk about. Now. These two blended states are really vital. Because the experience of them is what allows us to navigate. The variety of experiences in life. All from a place of regulation. Rather than having to dip into dysregulation to experience any of them. So these two blended states of play and stillness Are vital. Because they help us to navigate. The variety of experiences we have in life from a place of regulation. So I first want to talk about this blended state of play. Play is a combination of two states. It's predominantly us being anchored in our ventral vagal complex. Which is our state of regulation. But it includes some of our sympathetic nervous system. So it's not equal parts our ventral vagal complex and our sympathetic nervous system. It's predominantly that ventral vagal complex. With a small amount of that sympathetic energy. Because our sympathetic nervous system is all about mobilizing or doing. Which means there's a. There's an overabundance of energy here. Now, why we want that, because when we're in regulation, Just plain old ventral moving through our lives. We're able to experience a lot of different things. Like I might be able to have a great conversation with a friend. And I feel really connected to them and it's really lovely. Or I'm going about my workday and having meetings with colleagues and they're going really well. Or I'm having a nice dinner with a friend. You get the idea. I'm just navigating the world from regulation. But there are times where I want more energy in my system while I'm regulated. And so if I'm doing things like, you know, going dancing with friends, or I'm going to a comedy show, or I am having a game night at my house and playing charades. I want to have more energy in my system. It would be quite strange, wouldn't it, if I was going dancing and I had the same amount of energy that I have when I'm having a cup of coffee in my backyard? I mean, I suppose you could dance in a really relaxed way, but sometimes we want more of that energy in our system. The same goes with having a game night. That's a different amount of energy I want in my system than when I'm at the library, right. Or I'm at a spa. So this experience of play is what allows us to navigate these experiences in our lives with the amount of energy and aliveness that we actually need to engage in the experience itself. And play is, you know, a beautiful resource that each of us has the capacity to experience inside of our nervous system. So I want to talk about, about some of the benefits of being in this state of play. One of the most predominant reasons why we want to experience this is because it allows us to learn new things. One of the best ways that we can learn is from embodying play. Here's an example of this, by the way. Children are wonderful at embodying play, and it's also how they consistently learn. So if I'm a kid playing with, with blocks, for example, and I'm trying to build a tower, and I move a block and the tower tumbles, so I just learned something here that I need to make sure that block is in place at that foundation of the building that I'm creating in order for it to become really tall. And so there are no mistakes when we're playing. Every single, you know, what we, our adult selves might classify as a mistake is actually a learning moment that allows us to step further into the things that we're desiring Another example, you know, as a child's learning to walk and they. They are trying to balance and then they fall over. No adult would say, wow, you got it wrong. What a mistake you made. You're never going to be able to walk. No, of course not. We chee that child on and support them to be able to come into this experience of being able to walk. And they don't see it as, you know, making any meaning of them falling as there's something innately wrong with me, or I'm never going to be able to do this. So from this state of play, we are actually able to really learn in the most expedited way possible. Play also creates. Facilitates creativity. So it allows us to be in the most fully expressed version of our creativity. When we can let go of structure or the idea we might have around something. And when we're able to do that and open up to possibility, so many amazing things can arise. This is also really beneficial when we're trying to, you know, when we're in a work environment and we're trying to collaborate with others. If we can be open to the possibility that. My perspective is not the only one. I'm laughing because, of course, my perspective is not the only one that new ideas can come in, and together we can collaborate from this place of openness and trying things out and throwing things at the wall and seeing if they stick or land. And it also is what makes creating things so much more enjoyable when we're able to be in this place of possibility. And that's really something that play creates in a profound way. So another benefit of play is when we're able to do that with another human being. It really facilitate profound bonding and deepen attachment between people. So if we're looking for greater intimacy in our relationships, one of the best and fastest ways to do that is to bring more play into the relational container. I also want to say that if you're finding yourself struggling in your relationship, whether that's a romantic one or a platonic one, a lot of times we can just want to focus on the problem. But one of the best things that you can actually do is. Is also simultaneously, it's not avoiding the problem, but simultaneously. Simultaneously be putting just as much attention on experiencing play with one another. When we do this, we deepen our connection profoundly and we become more of a solid partnership. So now we look at conflict not as enemies or being against one another, but we can look at conflict as being partners or teammates. So what can be really helpful is connecting around an experience that you can have with one another. So that might be, you know, taking a cooking class or going on a trip and planning the trip together or going dancing together. So when there's an actual activity that we can engage in playfully, it can deepen our bond in a really big way. And we can also just bring play into our lives, like watching a funny show together or cooking together or playing music in the house. So the more that we do that relationally, the more it deepens our bond and the more that it really allows us to navigate conflict with greater ease. And play is actually the best state in our nervous system to problem solve from the reason being is that when we are in this state of play, we are really open and available to possibility more than even when we're in just our ventral vagal complex alone. And that openness and curiosity that is anchored or a foundational component of play really helps to facilitate that. Curiosity is perhaps one of the most vital things to bring in when we're trying to problem solve. And it opens up our lens or our perspective on what's occurring. And that is a feature that play brings for us. So now I want to talk about some of the reasons why so many of us struggle with play. So if you're listening and you're like, wow, there's a lot of benefits of this thing called play. But I can't seem to step into it. There are many reasons why this might be happening. The first thing I want to name is that culturally speaking, we are told at a certain age that it is childish to play. Think about this. You reach a certain age, it's usually around 5th or 6th grade where recess is taken away. So this beautiful experience of taking a break from being in a classroom and allowing us to bond more deeply together, to learn in a different way with one another, to problem solve is removed. And then we're told that we should just be able to sit in a chair for seven or eight hours a day and stay regulated. And we need to be serious now. So that lack of play being socially acceptable as we reach a certain age really then inhibits our ability to thrive and to learn to the degree that we really have the capacity for. So another reason that so many of us struggle to play is that it requires things like a lack of inhibition, it requires spontaneity, it requires exposure and being fully who we are. Now, if those things were not historically safe in the past, then our ability to access play is going to become inhibited. So let's say I grew up in a childhood home where I was told that play is silly. Or maybe it was just an unsafe home because by the way, in order to play, you have to be anchored in safety. My system learns it is not safe to do that here. It's not safe to be fully me, it's not safe to be exposed, or I have to be self protected at all times because this environment isn't safe. Or I have to be the caretaker to everyone else. I become parentified. So I have to be in this adult role far before I am an adult. And so when play becomes inhibited when we're young Our nervous system is going to struggle to experience play now because it's not something that we yet know. Another reason that so many of us struggle with play is if we find ourselves to be sympathetic dominant in our nervous system. So I'm kind of always feeling anxiety or I'm always on the go. I struggle with my sleep. I have racing thoughts, I have a lot of worry or frustration or agitation or anger or fear, panic. All of that's a clue. You're in your sympathetic nervous system. And that's kind of like a go to for my nervous system. It knows how to go there quickly. So when I engage in play or try to engage in play, I might notice that I quickly get swept away into my sympathetic nervous system. Why would that happen? Because remember, play is a blended state. It's predominantly being anchored in your ventral vagal complex. But it's like it has, I don't know, let's say a half a cup or a cup of sympathetic energy. And if my system is oriented towards being in that sympathetic energy, it's almost like when I go to put a half a cup in, a whole gallon goes in and then I get pulled back into my sympathetic nervous system. Here's some examples of that in real life. And first I'll give an example of that's happening for kids. Let's say kids are playing. They're playing like that lava game you remember as a kid where you put cushions down and you have to jump from cushion to cushion. So they're playing and kids are negotiating the rules of this play. They're being creative together. And then one of the kids brings too much sympathetic energy into their nervous system, which is all happening subconsciously. And they get angry all of a sudden and they push one of the kids and then someone's crying and someone's yelling and the parent runs in and is like, what's going. And you were just playing. Well, somebody added too much sympathetic energy. Or for us adults, you might notice you're having like a game night with your partner or some friends and everything's really fun. And all of a sudden someone does something that bothers you or annoys you and your system brings in more sympathetic energy and says, you always do this thing. Why are you cheating? Da da da da da da da. And now we're having an argument. So those are just some reasons why so many of us can find ourselves struggling to play part of our work. If we're wanting to not only heal the past, but if we're wanting to embody the life that we are here to live and enjoy it. We must begin experiencing, in a tolerable way, more of this beautiful blended state. And so I just want to give you some practical ways that you can begin expanding your capacity to be here. So for many of us, if you struggle with play, you might find yourself, you know, reading books that are really serious. Maybe you read a lot of nonfiction books about, or memoirs about people whom have maybe struggled in their life that really maybe are. Those are things you relate to. Maybe you find yourself watching a lot of true crime TV shows or podcasts, and everything is really serious and dense. And of course, there's nothing wrong with all of that. But if you notice that that tends to be the totality of what you're intaking or how you're engaging, that may be a clue that you might struggle with this state of play. So something as simple as I'm going to, you know, watch something funny on tv, I'm going to listen to a podcast that's a little lighter. I'm going to read a book that is light just for the sake of enjoyment in reading it. All of those things can support us to embody more of this state of play in a structured way. It's really important to know that in stepping into this experience, we wanna make the steps tolerable. So if you struggle with play and your expectation is you're gonna just go do standup or you're gonna go take a breakdancing class, and you've never done anything like that before, it might feel too big. Why? Because those things are requiring pretty extensive, pretty extensive spontaneity and so on and so forth. So we want to bring some structure to play which can make it feel more safe and more doable so that we actually step towards it. Another thing that supports experiencing play is going into nature. Nature is a beautiful place for us to really embody the wonderment that play is. So I invite you to go into nature with the eyes of a child, or having the intention of being in nature with the eyes of a child. If you've ever watched a child in the world or in nature, everything they're looking at is new, right? So the lens through which they see things is one of wonderment and play. And so simple exercise you can do. Go into nature and imagine and try your best to do this, that you don't have the cognitive ability to name anything. So it's your first time seeing a tree or a rock or moss or the ocean and so on and so forth, and see if you can experience that thing without meaning around it and just notice what it's like to see it or hear it or feel it, and be with the wonder that it is to be in relation to nature. That is an incredible act of play. So another thing we can do is we can use music to facilitate play. In our systems, we have something called mirror neurons. So our nervous systems are always being affected by everything around us. So if you play a song that is has features or flavorings that are eliciting this blended state, it can bring it alive in you. So just be present to the music. You can even allow your body to move or to dance, which, by the way, might at first feel more tolerable to do alone and see if you can really experience the playful nature of the music that you're listening to. And the last thing I want to share that can really help to facilitate play is embodying creativity. We are all creative beings, and I just want you to think about anything that might light you up, that when you do it, you get out of your mind and you come into presence. That could be like cooking or writing or drawing or doing pottery. Literally anything, anything at all that opens up that. That creative channel for you. All of that helps to facilitate a greater experience of play. And again, when we can harness the power of this state, we are able to step further into the life that we're desiring. We're able to problem solve more. We're able to amplify the abundance in our life. We're able to be more of our full, true selves, and we're able to have the relationships that we desire to. So let's talk about our blended state of stillness. Now, stillness is experienced when we're predominantly anchored in our ventral vagal complex. But we have a amount of our dorsal vagal complex present. Now, the dorsal vagal complex, as I named before, is all about immobilization or shutdown. But when we bring a small amount of that immobilization into the experience of being predominantly anchored in our ventral vagal complex, it's what allows a slowing to occur while we're in regulation. So I want to just explain some examples of what it looks like to be in this state of stillness. And we've all experienced it. So moments where you've been in awe of something in nature, maybe there's like a beautiful hummingbird that lands outside your window, or you're watching a beautiful sunset or sunrise, and you notice that you're not wanting to move. There's a real slowing. And as I see this Hummingbird land. I don't want to disrupt it. I really want to be able to take it in. So everything about my system is slowing. But I am acutely present to what's occurring. Occurring. The same goes if I'm seeing, you know, like a beautiful sunrise that is just so majestic. I don't really want to talk a lot. I just want to be present to the magic of its unfolding. Or moments where we've watched a loved one sleep, for example. So if you've ever watched your child or animal or your partner sleeping. And someone you have so much love and admiration for. There's such a slowing that occurs. And you might notice the real fulfillment that you get in your own nervous system. From being able to be in the experience of their presence, of deep rest. Those are just a few examples of stillness. Others might be, you know, when I'm at a spa getting a massage. Or I'm taking a bath, just really relaxing or reading a book or writing. All of those things really are experiences that may ask us to come into this state of stillness. And you can probably hear that in my voice. I'm trying to elicit that for you. Now, I want you to think about something for a moment. Remember I said at the beginning that these three states of regulation, Ventral stillness and play. All are really important and necessary components of navigating our lives. Predominantly from regulation. They allow us to have nuance and flexibility of having a variety of experience well regulated. So think about this. Imagine I was watching a loved one sleep. And I wasn't using stillness. Instead, I was in, you know, play. And I said to them, you're sleeping so well. Like, that would be so strange, right? And they would wake up and be like, oh, my God. That's really disruptive and bizarre that you just proclaimed that I was sleeping while I was resting. Or you're, you know, watching that hummingbird land outside your window. And you say, you're such an amazing hummingbird. If you know, or whatever. Like, you're so beautiful, the hummingbird's gonna fly away. So stillness allows us to navigate these moments that are really calling for are slowing. And it's a beautiful state to begin embodying. So there are many benefits to experiencing this beautiful state of stillness. It really is what allows us to be in acute place of presence. So really anchored in the here and now. Where I am focused on the experience that's unfolding in front of me. Which is truly one of the greatest gifts that life has to offer us. To be able to be that present, to that which is in front of us when we are in world, the safety. It is also what allows us to be deeply connected to our own emotional experience. So connecting to what is actually occurring in my body, what am I deeply desiring? What is my system needing of me? How am I feeling currently, including things like longing or desire, you know, all of the beautiful emotions that might be living in my body, I can access more readily when I come into this core quieting. Um, and I also just want to say one of the reasons why we can can, you know, struggle to be in this state is because that can historically be a really overwhelming thing to be that present to our emotions. And we'll get to other reasons why we struggle with it in just a moment. It also allows us to have a really profound connection in attunement in our relationships. So obviously all relationships. But in terms of our romantic partnership, if we're wanting greater intimacy, what is intimacy all about? It's allowing you to see into the depths within myself. Allowing you to see the parts of myself that maybe I've had to harbor off or stow away. Because it wasn't historically safe for those parts to be seen. And when we can slow enough to be so acutely here, and we are not distracted by anything else, we can fully see one another in our fullness. And of course, this can only happen when both of our nervous systems feel a sense of safety. But coming into this place together really deepens that ability to see one another, to hold one another in our witnessing. It's a really profound way to deepen our bond. It also can help facilitate deep rest and deep sleep. So many of us struggle in our lives with sleep. And one of the predominant reasons is because we live in a culture that is so oriented towards being in our sympathetic nervous system. All about the going and doing right, go, go, go, do, do, do, produce more. And the deep rest is that it asks us to come into stillness in order for us to experience it. So if we're always in this state of mobilizing and we try to go to sleep from that place, essentially it's like our nervous system thinks that there's a danger that we have to keep getting away from. So it's not going to allow us to get deep rest because of it. So a simple practice that we can start doing is really engaging in a nightly routine that facilitates greater levels of stillness in our lives. And we're going to talk. I'll talk about how to do that at the end of this episode. So stillness also is necessary to rejuvenate our bodies. So much of the time, we collapse into rest, right? And we think we're coming into stillness, but really our systems are so exhausted that at the end of the day, we just numb out and sit on the couch. And we can't think about anything else until we fall asleep. That's not actually stillness. That's what I would consider dysregulated exhaustion. Stillness is really different. It's intentional. So I am taking aside time to be present to my extension experience undistracted by anything else. And to allow a slowing to occur. And that really rejuvenates our entire system as a whole. And stillness is also really necessary to facilitate a spiritual connection. And because why? Spirituality is about presence. And when I can come into presence and have connectivity, connectivity to self and connectivity to all things around me. And whatever this greater mystery is, that is creation. I am really able to have an intimate connection to my own form of spirituality. So if all of this sounds really great to you, but you're saying, yeah, but I can't seem to come into stillness. I've tried it before, and I just have a rough time relaxing. Even when I go to a spa or I go to a vacation in a beautiful beach somewhere, I can't really slow down. So I want to talk about a couple of reasons why that's occurring. The first is if we have been conditioned to be predominantly in our sympathetic neurons, nervous system, meaning where anxiety, worry, frustration, fear, terror, rage lives. If you're always on the go, you never seem to stop. There's always another thing that has to happen. Um, even on the weekends, you can't seem to actually relax. That's all a clue that you're predominantly anchored in your sympathetic nervous system. And that's a clue that your nervous system has decided that this is the state it needs to operate in in order to ensure your safety. And the truth is, for many of us, we've gotten a lot of benefit from being in that state. You may create a, you know, a wildly successful. You might have a lot of financial abundance from being in this state. And of course, many other things. So our system might say, I'm not thinking that it's okay to come out of this state. Because it has been the place that has not only protected you, but it's been the place that you've gotten a lot of benefit from. And so it really takes building our capacity to be in this state and show our nervous system that it's safe to come out of our sympathetic system. So another reason we can struggle with stillness is because in many ways it can mimic immobilization and trauma to our nervous systems. So when we experience trauma, oftentimes we are left helpless and immobilized. And so, meaning I'm not able to do anything about this there. And then we go into either our dorsal vagal complex, our state of shutdown, or our state of freeze. And so when we come into stillness, which is a slowing, our nervous systems can think that is the same thing as being immobilized. And it'll say, I never want to do that again. And it will try to avoid it altogether. The thing that's really important to understand about stillness is that it is wildly different from immobilization. Stillness, because it's happening in regulation, actually has a movement to it's energy that's always in motion, of course. And so it's more like a, like a gentle ushering or moving back and forth. You can think of it like a ripple on a pond. So the, the, the water is moving, it might be moving gently, but there's still mobilization towards it. And so as we step into stillness, it's really important that we give our systems that kind of reassurance and reminder that it is nothing like the immobilization that trauma brings. But that is one of the reasons why a lot of us struggle with it. And last, lastly, one of the most profound reasons we struggle with it is because when we come into stillness, we are left with ourselves. We are left with this moment. And being left with ourselves means we are left with what is, what's occurring inside of our bodies, which might mean things that we've avoided, like grief or like I previously named, like loneliness, like our longing and many other things. So as a way to avoid being with those experiences, we can usher ourselves out of the possibility of being in stillness. So let's talk about how we can tangibly begin stepping into this state of stillness. You know, oftentimes I say this a lot, but we can try to take steps that are beyond our capacity and meaning. We have the expectation that I'm just gonna be able to relax for six hours on a Saturday afternoon and come into stillness or meditate for two hours straight out the gate. That's gonna be too much for our nervous system. So we have to build our capacity to lean into it ourselves, step into it. One way that we can step into stillness is by. Through a walking meditation. Remember a moment ago I said for our nervous systems, stillness can act as a cue of danger at first because our system can Think that it's mimicking the immobilization of trauma. So if we can bring movement in, it facilitates more of a possibility that our nervous system will get on board with it. So when I say a walking meditation, that, that, that might be really slow movement as I'm walking or moving through. It could be through the neighborhood or in nature. And really being mindful of how each foot feels as it's touching the ground, noticing my breath come in and out of my lungs, noticing the feel of the air on my skin, the sun on my face perhaps, or the, the nature that I'm seeing around me. So I'm being very present to what's unfolding both in my body and around me. That might be more tolerable than doing a closed eyes sitting meditation at first. And nature as a whole is a wonderful way to come into stillness. If you live in the middle of the city and it's not possible for you to go on, you know, a three mile hike, you can even create on your, on your phone or, or on your computer, whatever device you have a playlist of nature sounds and specific nature sounds that elicit stillness for you. So it might be like wind rustling through, through a forest or the sound of water trickling. So whatever again, sounds register as, as calming for you. Put those together and then play the music and allow or the sounds rather and allow your system to respond to it. So really being present to what you're hearing and just see if you can notice what happens in your nervous system. Your nervous system will begin to mirror the sounds that it's hearing. And of course you can go into nature, nature. And the more you can make contact using all the senses that you have access to, the more it will facilitate stillness in your system. If you're, you know, going hiking with, with a loved one, just seeing if even for 15 minutes you can be in nature silently together. A lot of times when I'm with my friends hiking, we're really not engaging in stillness, which is okay, we're engaging more in ventral or play cause we're talking a lot. But it can be really helpful to also come into stillness as you, you're doing this. Another thing is not multitasking. If you're multitasking, that's just a clue that you are very good at resourcing your sympathetic nervous system. I have lots of things going at once and you're, you probably have learned to be really good at that. But it takes us away from presence and certainly stillness. So just seeing. Can I take one thing? Just One. And by the way, as you do this, as you do all these practices of stillness, your sympathetic nervous system is likely going to say to you, you'll never get anything done if you do things one at a time. This is crazy how you're going to be doing things for the next 20, 24 hours straight in order to complete them. And just know that at first that is probably what your sympathetic system is going to say. You're going to have some anxiety about it. We just want to see, can I tolerate just a few moments of this? So just doing one task at a time and being present and mindful to it. The truth is, when we are in regulation, we can actually accomplish so much more than we can when we're in dysregulation. So in terms of our relationships, stillness is a really powerful way to deepen connection, as I talked about a moment ago. So what I invite you to do with your partner is to see if you can have moments of connection that do not involve words. So really being present and breathing together, making skin to skin contact with the core of your body, so the trunk of your body, that really facilitates bringing regulation into your systems, bringing deep connection and stillness. So much of the time you get home from work and you hug for a second and you're not present at all, and you move on to the next thing. And so for many of us, we are lacking deep connection in our relationships. And if that continues on, then it can really create a lot of problems relationally. So the more we can come into stillness together, the better. You could also, you know, go on a walk together where you're just quietly holding hands and taking in nature around you, making eye contact without words, reading to one another, that's another way to engage in stillness together. So anyways, where we can slow and there's a lot less language and a lot more somatic connection is really powerful. And lastly, it's really important for all of us to be engaging in stillness before we go to bed. As I named a bit ago, so many of us struggle with insomnia and difficulty sleeping. And that is in part due because so many of us are in that chronic sympathetic state. So a few hours before bed, it can be very helpful to begin having the intention of eliciting this state of stillness. And that might start with, I turn off all overhead light and all artificial light. Maybe you light some candles or even having some warm artificial candles around you. All of that helps to facilitate more stillness and cues to your body. It's time to come into rest. You can put nature sounds on like I mentioned before, or this sound bath music or call anything that's calming to your nervous system. Not looking at a screen because you know when you pick up your phone, you have every app on the planet available to you. You can know everything about everything happening in the world at any given time. And that's really overwhelming to a nervous system. So we wanna put that away, put all screens away and engage in things that really support presence which might be, you know, drawing or writing or reading. You can do yoga, nidra, qigong, even taking a bath. All things that allow a real slowing to occur before bed. And when we do this, it signals to our system not all only are we safe, but we are ready to go into this place of deep rest. So both stillness and play are vital parts of the healing process that are often overlooked. Again, we can think about when we think about our personal development or our healing, we can often think of doing the hard work. And that's not the whole picture. It also includes these beautiful states that bring us so much nourishment and are really what's necessary to embody the full life we're desiring. So if you're to willing, wanting to step into an even bigger life, a more exciting life, we need these states to do so. And just know as you step into them, there might be resistance because. Because they're new, because your nervous system doesn't yet know they're safe for you. But the more that we take tolerable steps towards them, the more they begin to feel good and open up so many incredible avenues for us in our lives. Enjoying what you've heard so far and want to go deeper into. I have a free workbook called how to Gain Control over how youw Feel. And it will help you to get in the driver's seat of your experience and step towards your desires with more ease. Check the show notes below for a link to download. So we have some great questions about play and stillness today that folks wrote in and I have Rachel with me. Hey Rachel.
- [37:23]
B
Hi. How are you doing?
- [37:25]
A
I'm good. How are you doing today?
- [37:26]
B
Yeah, really good, really good. And I'm really glad that we're doing this episode on play and still because they bring so much extra to your life. And so yeah, I'm excited to, to dive into these questions with you and.
- [37:40]
A
I want to say you embody play and stillness so beautifully in your life and, and in our work together. And it's such a. It makes life from regulation filled with so much nuance and Flavor.
- [37:54]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it does. And you're right. I do feel like I'm. I am really playful and. And I use my bowls for stillness, too. And, yeah, they are states that I do really enjoy. And so, yeah, I'm excited to help other people, you know, dive into these. Yeah. So this one is about dancing. I desperately want to feel more playful and free when I watch some of my friends who can just go dance and have fun, and they seem so uninhibited, and they love it. I want that so much. But when I think about doing that with other people around, around me, I feel so overwhelmed and I freeze. It makes the idea of even going feel impossible.
- [38:35]
A
So, you know, we talk about this. This a lot. This idea of we're. We're where we are currently at our journey in our journey of healing, and there's a place that we want to be which can feel like we're on one side of a cliff, and it's on the other side of a cliff in the distance, and there's no bridge in the middle. And so what I hear from this question, the first thing I hear is that's what's occurring. And when it feels like too big of a step for our nervous system, that our nervous system is going to put us into dysregulation. And this person's saying, I freeze, and I feel like I literally can't go. Like, I have to. I was actually talking to my best friends about this. There's something both of us struggled with for a long time, and she was sharing with me that. And I did something very similar that she, like, you know, years and years ago, when I was dating someone and I was supposed to go to a wedding, I literally faked a ankle injury because I felt so overwhelmed at the prospect of having to dance in front of them. Felt like, so scary. And, you know, this person, my friend, is maybe somebody with the highest integrity of anyone I've ever known. So this isn't something that she would commonly do, like makeup stuff, stories. But that's my point in sharing that is. That's how big it can feel sometimes to confront the things that are really vulnerable for us. And that's the way I felt, too. And, And. And specifically around this question that's being asked, I relate to it so deeply. And, and so for. Anyway, I'm going to get into three, three points here, but that first point is really important. We can tend to have these goals that are beyond our nervous system's capacity. And if we try to just step into that we. Without that big step, without taking these incremental steps, our nervous system is likely gonna say, that's way too dangerous. It's way too much. And it's gonna stop us in our tracks or make us get to the place where we have to say that our hip got dislocated last week, and I'm just not gonna be able to do that with you forever. So we wanna work on capacity building. And for me, what this looked like. And then I wanna get to why this occurs. But for me, what this looked like in this area was first really beginning to build a relationship with your body in a positive way. Because the truth is, everybody can dance. That's really the truth. Everyone can sing too now. Yeah. Nobody wants to listen to me sing for, like, for two hours or probably even longer than Happy Birthday song. But the point is, we all have the capacity to do it. And the same with dancing. Kids who are uninhibited would. None of them would say, I'm bad at this. They would all say, what do you mean? It's just wiggling your body around, just moving. That's dancing. Right? So we've just all been conditioned that there is a right way to do something and the wrong way to do something, or many of us have. So, number one, building a relationship with my own body. And that might look like in the privacy and safety of my own home, I'm gonna start putting music on and just getting curious about how my body might want to. To move to that music. And this takes away the performative nature of play. A lot of us have this protective response to play where we have to do it well or we have to perform for someone else, which is what can happen. I find that that happens very commonly with dancing. I am doing this for you so that you think that I'm good at this or that you think that I'm sexy in the way that I'm doing this, versus I'm doing this actually to commune with myself and then to commune with others in the experience. So at home, really thinking of it like, I'm communing with this vessel I inhabit. And when it hears this song, how might it want to move? And then I want you to notice. Are there certain areas of my body where I am finding energies constricted? Meaning this part of my body is like the Tin Man. Is that what it is from the wizard of Oz? Was it called called the Tin Man? Okay, good. I'm like the Tin man where my. My right. My shoulders don't really move or My hips aren't moving much and seeing if we can gently invite in what would it be like to just invite energy and movement to the joints of my hips. And by the way, this also helps to not only reg, it helps to regulate our nervous system, move, store dramatic energy through our bodies and helps us to be more impactful. So that's something I highly recommend. If you live in a lot of places in the world, there are things like a static dance. 5Rhythms is a beautiful model of embodiment and dance. And there's where I live in Los Angeles, there's lots of different types of embodiment practices that involve dance and music. And all of that is about moving as self expression. And then can I connect with others. So I recommend if when it feels like, okay, I've done it alone enough, the next step would be can I be witnessed in this? And probably going to that, you know, I don't know that like rave or that wedding might feel too big, but it might not feel too big to go to a space where we know other people also have some fear insecurities. And it's led by someone whom is really here to create safety and show us that it's okay to be me. So. So it's like one of those classes that I talked about that can be a great first step. I also want to name that for some of us. Playing with strangers at first can feel safer than playing with our most intimate people. And that can be really confusing, right, because you're like, well, these are my people or this is my partner. Shouldn't I be able to dance with them? Well, actually, they may be the hardest person to do it with because couple reasons. They matter the most to you and to your parts. They have seen the most parts of you, so you're most exposed to them. And that means you're most exposed to being hurt by them. And so your system might say, oh my gosh, to lean into this thing that I feel inadequate around or I feel insecure around can feel too big. But what might feel more reasonable is I'm going to go with a bunch of strangers to this thing like a class that I just named, or with one friend to this thing so we can show our systems I am now safe to play and be witness by others. And the truth of the matter is nobody is actually watching us. Most people are either number one, they're terrified and they have parts of them that are saying I feel scared to be inadequate or they're really embodied. And if they're really embodied, then they're immersed in their own experience of what's happening for them. So we have to build the bridge to get to this place that we want to go. And that. That was absolutely my journey. And a part of that to go to this other really important aspect of it is why does that happen? Well, if we didn't have the conditions necessary to play when we were kids, to be silly, to be uninhibited, when you did something silly, the caregivers around you just said, that's amazing, I love that, and joined you in it. If that didn't happen, then play can become inhibited and then there's a level of insecurity around it. So we stopped doing it. That, that was my experience. Play didn't happen in my house. Like, my mother didn't like games she thought they were. And there was a lot of negative talk around play. Like it was childish and stupid and all of these other things. So I stopped playing and learned to achieve. That was a place of comfort. But play not so much. And so it, it became something that needed to be learned again.
- [46:26]
B
And.
- [46:26]
A
And knowing that there's going to be parts that are going to feel, like, scared to be inadequate, scared to be witnessed, that's all a part of the journey. So we have to build our capacity for it one step at a time and take the hand of that little part. Last thing I want to say on it is the young parts of us that are so scared, they go into freeze. Think about it. If, like, I like to think of it this way. If I was with a child who had play inhibited in their body, what would I want to do for them? What I say to them, like, well, yeah, you better get this exactly right. Because if you go on the dance floor and you don't dance well, probably all of your friends won't want to be your friends anymore and you'll be the most unattractive person that ever lived on the entire planet. So you better get all this right. I mean, like, wow, if I was that kid, I'd probably run away, right? So instead we would say, oh my gosh, this is. It's also not a big deal. Like, who cares? This is just about you having fun. And I would get even more silly than them and I'd make myself as silly as possible so. So that they could see it was just okay to be who they are. And I'd usher them onto the dance floor and so that's what we want to do for ourselves. And then find a safe other somebody who can do that with us and for us. And I know, Rachel, you are quite the dancing queen. So I'm curious, I never asked you this. So everyone listening. Rachel is dancing enthusiast. Right? Rage. Tell us a little bit about that journey, because I never asked you, was that always something that was easy for you to embody or that's something.
- [47:59]
B
No, tell me more about it. Yeah, you described my journey. Really? So, like, I did used to like discos, but when I was young, but I was into, like, trying to look cool and be cool, and so I didn't really dance. Yeah. Just sort of would move awkwardly and not want to stand out too much. And it was actually going to five rhythms classes that really changed that for me. So you can go to a 5Rhythms class or conscious dance class, and you can dance how you dance in your bedroom by yourself, or you can dance what feels safe. And the teacher invites you to, oh, what does it feel like to dance? And move your elbow. What does it feel like? And you can do that in as big or small a way as you want to. And it was from doing those classes that now I can. Can dance. And like, I do go to raves sometimes. I do like that still. And, yeah, I can now dance how I would dance in my bedroom at home by myself. I can dance and do that out now. And people come up to me and my partner and they're like, oh, you two are so cool. But it's because we are so used to dancing freely. We aren't worried about what anyone else is doing. But it was definitely from building that top toleration, from feeling that safety from those classes that took me from just trying to be cool to now I don't care. Like, I am just having fun. And it's such a release of energy. Like, I feel great.
- [49:27]
A
Yeah.
- [49:28]
B
And.
- [49:28]
A
And I know you said this to me before, Rachel, people coming over to you when you're at. At a rave and they're, they're thinking that you're either, like, drinking a lot or taking something and you're like, actually, actually, no, I'm completely sober. I'm just in joy in my body. And I'm so glad you shared that because it shows the arc of what can happen here. Because for anyone who has had felt uncomfortable in their body or felt afraid of this, it can feel like we see other people who are totally embodied and think, oh, my gosh, that probably was always that way for them. And understanding that it can be a journey for us that we get to a place where there's so much Freedom in that kind of place. So thank you for, for sharing that.
- [50:15]
B
Oh, yeah, you're welcome. You're welcome. People do ask me if I've got drugs to sell them, and I don't do that. And I'm not drunk either. And people always want to buy me a drink. They're always like, oh my God, you dance great. Can I buy a drink? And I'm just like, no thanks, dancing. Okay, so the next question is about stillness. When I meditate, I get more anxious, the thoughts get louder and the internal sensations feel overwhelming. Why doesn't it work for me?
- [50:45]
A
Well, it doesn't work for you because you're working. Exactly right. So if we're in our sympathetic nervous system, this is often referred to as fight or flight or mobilization. My system thinks there's danger and I need to evade the danger, so I need to mobilize and do something to get away from it. So imagine if I try to find new examples all the time, but we're going to just go with one I've used before. Imagine if. No, I'm going to find I just found a new one. Imagine if Rachel, me and you were walking somewhere and a stampede was coming towards us. Never used this one before and it was charging us. And I said, rachel, when you're dysregulated like we are right now, I've heard that meditation is really good for you. So why don't we sit on the ground and close our eyes and meditate for the next half hour? You would say, like, I don't know, Sarah has really lost it. I'm going to run away and Sarah's going to have a funeral tomorrow, right?
- [51:46]
B
No, I would drag you with me.
- [51:47]
A
Oh, I love that. That's your response, Rachel, you're very strong. You can put me on your shoulders and I'll meditate as you carry me off into the distance. Yeah. So that would be super strange, right, that I would even suggest that. And the issue with a lot of pop psychology that we see happening now, and of course in some self help, not some, a lot of self help too, is that there are these broad strokes, things we're told to do that are going to help for everything. And it's not a one size fits all sort of deal when it comes to healing or regulating our nervous systems. And what I mean mean by that is in terms of meditation, it can be wildly helpful when we're in certain states in our nervous system and it can be really detrimental when we're in other states. So if I'm At a. In my sympathetic nervous system, this is mobilization. Anxiety, worry, frustration, fear, terror, rage, all live here. And I think of like a 1 is the least extreme, 10 is the most. So if I'm at a maybe a 4 to a 10 in intensity, that means that the state stampede is getting closer. My system is going to be very resistant to sitting still because it's saying if you sit still and don't move, we aren't getting away from the danger. So if you inhibit the natural response your body wants to have, which is mobilizing, and you just make yourself be still, your nervous system is going to try to wake you up and get you to move, which means it will increase the activation. So all of a sudden I feel more fidgety or, or I feel greater anxiety. And that's because your system is saying, oh my goodness, I don't know what's happening to you. You're not getting the memo. There's a stampede coming, get up and move. So if you're at a 4 to a 10 in intensity or you notice that happening when you meditate, what we want to do is we want to have movement involved with our meditation. So that could mean a walking meditation. And when I say walking meditation, I don't mean speed walking through the neighborhood and just not talking. That's not meditating. It is adding a mindfulness to it. Meaning I'm really going to feel each step that I'm taking, and I'm going to slowly feel the weight going into the ball of my foot and the sole of my foot, and it's shifting from one side of my body to the other. And as I do that, I'm going to notice my breath and notice it's slowing or I'm going to notice the nature that is surrounding me. And it's a meditation, meditative practice. We can also do this. You can do a meditation with your eyes open and have even a gentle sway back and forth. So that's bilateral stimulation, which regulates the nervous system. So just a little bit of movement. And I know if a lot of us are taught to meditate in more traditional ways, it would be like, don't you dare move, don't you dare walk. All of those things. And what I want to, what I'm inviting in is, well, meditation is a very powerful tool. And in order for it to be functional in each state of dysregulation that we're in, we have to work with our nervous system. So meditate. Meditating with some mobility is really important. If you're in Your sympathetic nervous system, specifically, like a 4 to a 10. And the other thing that I just want to name is stillness to our nervous systems can oftentimes mimic immobility and helplessness that we experience with trauma. Trauma. So for our nervous system, when we become still, it says, oh, you're not going to be okay, or oh, you're helpless, or something bad is about to occur. So remembering that stillness is never stagnant, that's really important to know. Stillness is not an experience of being locked in time like cement. Stillness always has a fluidity to it. It's like the waves in the ocean moving. Or maybe something a little more gentle, like the gentle ripple of. On a. On a quiet pond, it's still moving. It might look flat, but there's movement occurring. So as we engage in stillness, we really want to, especially if our system is in a sympathetic place, be bringing in those small amounts of mobilization into our bodies. And that's something that I really had to work on for myself. It wasn't easy for me to come into stillness at all. And the other thing is, as I started to come into stillness, because my system was always, go, go, go, go, go, go. For a really long time, I had a lot of thoughts that would come in, like, there's this thing that has to get done as I'm taking a relaxing bath with like sound bowl music on and candles lit. And I'm like, where did that anxiety come from? And that's just our nervous system saying, wait, I don't know if this is actually safe. And so it's really important to know that that's called contraction. That as we engage in stillness, you can guarantee your nervous system is going to say, I don't know about this, I don't know about this. And then we just want to notice the thoughts and then come back into presence and back into that place of stillness. And stillness is what allows us also to experience real intimacy with our loved ones. People. You can be with someone for years and years and years and not really have intimacy. Like, we're busy, we're busying ourselves. And we, you know, we talk about things, but we're not really embodied as we talk about them. But when we come into stillness and gaze at each other, other, whoa. It's a whole nother ball game in terms of intimacy. So it's a. It's a powerful thing to practice. And meditation is a. Is a really great way to get us there. We just want to differ it depending on where we are, where we are in our nervous system.
- [57:28]
B
Yeah. And that's great information to know, because otherwise you could just sit there and then have all these thoughts and they'll ramp up and just feels like. Yeah. Intense. So. So, yes. Really good wisdom to know.
- [57:39]
A
The other thing I just want to say is I used to meditate a lot when I was in dorsal shutdown. That's where a disconnection, apathy, hopelessness, dissociation lives. I loved it because it was. Because it was disconnecting me further from my experience. So I remember I would. I would close my eyes to meditate. And then I would come out of the meditation, like if I'm with a group, and I would say things like, whoa, I feel like it was an outer space. Or I can't. I don't know. That felt like it was 10 hours. Was it? Or was it three minutes? I have no idea. And that's because I was. I wasn't actually present. I was dissociating or leaving my body. So when we're in our dorsal vagal complex, that state of shutdown. I actually really suggest not closing your eyes as you meditate, because closing our eyes can actually pull us deeper into that dorsal place. And even having a little bit of movement while meditating when you're in dorsal is so super helpful, too.
- [58:36]
B
Just talking about that. You make me want to sway.
- [58:38]
A
Yeah. It's such a. There's so many things that we can do to regulate that are so quick, so easy, and also really innate. Like if we think about. If you think about a baby that's in distress and it's crying, the inclination of a human being who has general presence in their body or an ability to be in presence in their body. The inclination is, I'm going to pick the baby up. I'm going to start to put the baby onto my chest. I tap their back, by the way. That's where their sympathetic nervous system is. And that's where your sympathetic nervous system is. And I sway and I might even hum. So I'm literally doing three things to regulate them. And I didn't even realize that I was an expert in regulation. And so I'm just naming that because so much of this stuff that we do to regulate our nervous systems is so inherent in who we are.
- [59:30]
B
Yeah. And I'm curious to hear your answer to this question, because this is around. How can play and stillness help to improve a relationship? So this person asks. My partner and I are experiencing some pretty significant challenges in our relationship. The conflict feels pretty overwhelming and sometimes hopeless to resolve. What do we do?
- [59:52]
A
Yeah. So when we're experiencing conflict in our relationship, it's really important to. To know that the way that our nervous work is our nervous system likes our partner, maybe loves our partner, but our nervous system's number one priority is us, and theirs is them. And so what happens is if I feel like my safety is endangered or my vulnerability is exposed in a way that could lead to me being hurt, my system, my nervous system fortifies. Like I put on armor and I get a sort out and I might just. I might love my partner so much and want to spend the rest of my life with them and really want this to work, but my nervous system is saying, yeah, but my priority is you. And so that's what's occurring for me, and that's what's occurring for them. And so then we come together to try to solve conflict both from this place of. We might say the words like, yes, I love you so much, and I really want this to work. But imagine if. Imagine like literally if two people were sitting across from each other in like a therapeutic setting or just in their house and they have armor on and a sword out. Does that visual look like two people that want to come together and connect? No, it looks like two people that are ready for war or battle. And that is what's really occurring when we're both triggered and we're. The compounding factor of my childhood stuff is being projected onto this, and so is your childhood stuff. And our nervous systems are trying to prevent against from us experiencing those childhood woundings again. And it can be impossible to get to the root of that conflict, to solve the conflict if we both have that armor on and the sword out. And this is why it's really important to know that in order to problem solve, we have to come into our ventral vagal complex or state of regulation. When we're in regulation, our nervous system is saying, you're safe. So it's like the armor comes off. So I don't have that armor on anymore. I put the sword down and I. My. I was going to say we're both Knicks naked. What I mean by that, you could be, I suppose, to solve a problem. But what I mean is I'm exposed. My skin is exposed. I'm tenderly exposed to you. And that level of tenderness and letting ourselves be seen underneath the armoring in the wounding. Because why do we have conflict? Because we have wounds that are created inside the relationship, but usually wounds that are from the past that are then poked at and the relationship. And when we can both be Exposed in that nakedness with that wound, not being self defended. And we love each other. And if each person is safe and we love each other and we can see those wounds and they can be compu. Communicated not from a complaint, but instead from a vulnerable place of like, oh, this really hurts, or here's what I'm feeling, or this is what it reminds me of. This is what I'm afraid of. This is what it feels like when, you know, when. When I never feel like I'm enough for you or whatever. Here's how I feel. When we love the other person and we see their wound tenderly, there's an impulse to want to help and vice versa. And so what's really important to name is the way that we come into this state of regulation. One of those ways is through play. And we can regulate our nervous systems on our own. We want to do that. But then when we're both in regulation, regulation, if we can start having more and more experiences where we are bonding around play, it solidifies our connection. Deeper, the bond becomes stronger. It's kind of like gorillas and chimpanzees. You know, some of our closest relatives, they. They groom each other, so they're constantly next to each other and they're. It's so funny because I've actually watched Gorilla's Groom and they have like all this stuff on them, and I don't even think they're getting much of it off, like the things I Off of them. So it doesn't seem like they're grooming in a way to actually become clean. The grooming is about bonding. I'm going to touch you and help you and caress you as a way to feel close to you. It's social engagement. So when we are able to engage in play with one another, it deepens our bond. And then from that place, it makes conflict resolution so much more possible. So when, if I'm working, I used to work with couples, and I don't. I don't much anymore. We have couples inside of a lot of our programs. But something I suggest a lot is engaging. If we want to problem solve before we get to talking about the problems or always focusing on the problems. I want you to go focus on engaging in play together like a new hobby. If you could go. Go take a pottery class together or a painting class or. Or a cooking class. Something that is outside of both of you, that can be a thing that you focus on together can really help solidify more play, more bonding. Maybe playing games, going for a walk and having the intention of we're going to share something with each other that we've never shared with each other before, or the weirdest thing that happened to us in the last year that you don't know about. Just engaging in a little bit more of that softening and then from that place we can have conflict resolution. You, Rach, seem like you have a lot of play in your relationship. Is that true?
- [65:11]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we do. And it really, really makes a difference. And I think, yeah, like something's been happening this week and my son is beginning to riz at the moment and teasing me. He's always trying to, he's like going, mom, mom, say something rizzy to, to your partner. And I'm no good at it, but my partner has been googling these rizz lines and saying them to me. And first of all, we were just doing it as a joke for my son, you know, to like be cringed about. And actually he's kept doing it and we've noticed, like, it's really fun and really regulating for him to say these like, cringy chat up lines in a way. But that, yeah, there's a funness and a playfulness to it. And I'd said to him, yeah, I might share about that because it's a fun way in an unexpected way that we've come closer through being playful and silly.
- [66:07]
A
Yeah. Bringing in that kind of play and silliness and inside of a family system too, is so powerful. It creates a deeper connection and bonding that is beyond us just talking about our deepest wounds or vulnerabilities. And a lot of times people think intimacy is just that, but intimacy, that's a form of intimacy. But being silly and playful and light is, is also a powerful way to deepen connection. For sure.
- [66:39]
B
Yeah. And I notice when my children are arguing a lot, it's because they haven't played together for a while. And so then they'll, you know, I'll encourage it. I, I give them a tech rest so that they can't play on tech separately, but I'll let them play it together. And then they bond and then their whole relationship dynamic changes again.
- [66:59]
A
And it's.
- [66:59]
B
And it's because they've played together. So. Yeah, that works really well.
- [67:04]
A
I love that you shared that. For parents listening, you know, because having children means you're gonna, you're eventually your kids are gonna reach an age where they're having conflict with each other. And play is such a powerful way to de. To come back together in connection and bonding. And by the way, if you're with your partner and you notice that both of you have been really busy and one person's dealing with your newborn and the other person's working all the time, and there's just a lot going on and you're starting to get agit, agitated with each other, or feel disconnected. That's a clue. Oh, we need to play. And how can we bring some of that back in together? Like, literally picking a show that's funny, like a comedy, and watching it together. Of course we want both of you to think it's funny and watching it together and laughing. That's play, and it's a thing we do together, and that will deepen the connection. And I just want to say that for anyone who's terrified of play, that starting with something like that can be a really wonderful entry point into it.
- [68:03]
B
Yeah. Oh, well, thank you so much, Sarah. It's exciting to hear how play and stillness can bring more richness into our lives and help us recuperate and rejuvenate and that healing doesn't always have to be heavy and in depth, kind of trawling through trauma. It's actually equally as important. Important to be playing and. And leaning into more and more play and stillness, too. So, yeah. Thank you so much.
- [68:32]
A
That's exactly right. And thank you so much for sharing all from all you did from your own experience, too, today. Rachel, it's so good to have you.