In this episode I go for a walk in the woods with a former airline pilot who packed it in because of his climate anxiety. Joel Walker flew for years but could never quite ignore the state of the planet - like the forest fires and melting glaciers he could see from his cockpit. Eventually, in 2025, the cognitive dissonance got too much and Joel left flying forever.

As we natter through the trees not far from Luton Airport, Joel tells me what it feels like to walk away from a prestigious career he'd trained for for years, because he could no longer bear what it was doing to the world. He tells me about the culture of being a pilot, the ruthless logic of aviation expansion, and what he's learned about how to live a more fulfilling life from his rollercoaster journey.

Joel is funny, kind and quietly inspiring. This is a fascinating chat with a man who has grappled hard with things we all face at some point. How to take big decisions when your values are telling you to do one thing, but your identity (and salary!) is built around doing something else. And what happens when you can no longer look away from how entangled you are with the climate crisis - whether you're an airline pilot or not.

Let me know your thoughts on the show - hello@yourbrainonclimate.com. Please rate, review and subscribe, and share the show on socials. And do consider chucking this humble indie podcaster a few quid at www.patreon.com/yourbrainonclimate.

Owl noises = references below. One additional last-minute reference: for more on 'sustainable' aviation and if it's possible, check out the latest Outrage and Optimism.

21:34 - the Jeavons Paradox explained.
24:23 - the Safe Landing group.
34:31 - the overview effect: what seeing Earth from space does to you.
37:36 - more about how contrails increase the warming effect.
38:56 - slightly old stat, but 70% of flights taken by 15% of people is here.
41:33 - extreme day trips.
52:23 - my chat with Geoff Beattie about climate anxiety.
57:00 - Look Near First, Joel's new thing.
58:08 - Joel profiled in the Times.

The show is hosted and produced by me, Dave Powell. You can follow the show on instagram @yourbrainonclimate, and I occasionally put up a Substack.

YBOC theme music and iterations thereof, by me. Thanks as always to Ruth Everett for the voices. Show logo by Arthur Stovell at https://mondial-studio.com/.