Murder, Mystery, And Mommies w/ Susan Hendricks | Your Mom's House Ep. 793

Summary

Podcast Summary: Your Mom's House with Christina P. and Tom Segura
Episode 793: Murder, Mystery, And Mommies w/ Susan Hendricks
Release Date: January 15, 2025

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Introduction and Hosts' Updates (00:00 - 05:00)

The episode opens with Tom Segura (A) announcing his upcoming tour dates across various cities, including San Francisco, Athens, Savannah, North Charleston, and Evansville. Christina Pazsitzky (B) joins in, humorously discussing her ongoing projects and recent experiences, such as dealing with Invisalign treatment and launching a new line of gender-neutral lipsticks. Their lively banter sets a casual and engaging tone for the episode.

Notable Quote:

• Tom (00:00): "All the dates and info are @tomsegro.com tour well, welcome. Welcome to your mom's house."

Product Promotions and Skits (05:00 - 30:00)

The hosts intersperse their conversation with advertisements and humorous skits. Christina promotes her lipstick line, emphasizing its gender-neutral appeal, while Tom discusses upcoming shows and studio projects. A recurring theme involves playful arguments between the hosts, showcasing their chemistry and comedic timing.

Notable Quote:

• Christina (02:12): "But I'm still selling lipstick. You guys get the perfect four. That is Berlin, Madison, Atomic Red and the Perfect Red."

Deep Dive into Crime and Mystery with Susan Hendricks (30:00 - 112:00)

The main segment features an in-depth conversation with Susan Hendricks (C), a renowned journalist and author of "Down the Hill, My Descent into the Double Murder in Delphi." Susan shares her experiences covering the tragic double murder case in Delphi, exploring the complexities of the investigation and the emotional toll on the families involved.

Key Discussions:

• Fascination with Crime Stories: Susan delves into why murder and mystery stories captivate audiences, highlighting the innate human desire to understand the "why" behind heinous acts.

  Notable Quote:

  • Susan (45:12): "It's because people want to understand why. And they think that they could help. Maybe."

• Impact on Families: She discusses the varying ways families cope with loss and tragedy, emphasizing the importance of community support and personal resilience.

  Notable Quote:

  • Susan (57:12): "I have an 8-year-old son and I interviewed Amber. I'm like, is it nature or nurture, like, what is it? Can you raise a murderer?"

• Media's Role in Crime Perception: Susan reflects on how media coverage shapes public perception of criminals and victims, often leading to misconceptions and biases.

  Notable Quote:

  • Susan (68:18): "I really like how your genre and what you guys do were one of the first. It's like men don't talk about things back then that you guys talk about."

• Personal Experiences and Observations: Both Christina and Tom share their encounters and thoughts on famous criminal cases, discussing the psychological aspects of perpetrators and the societal implications of unresolved mysteries.

  Notable Quote:

  • Tom (84:07): "He wants Jake Gyllenhaal to play him. Is that what he said?"

Emotional and Psychological Insights (112:00 - 120:35)

The conversation shifts towards the emotional and psychological impacts of covering violent crimes. Susan recounts her interactions with victims' families and the challenges of maintaining professionalism while dealing with personal trauma.

Key Points:

• Compartmentalization: Susan explains how she manages emotional distress by compartmentalizing her professional and personal lives.

  Notable Quote:

  • Susan (118:12): "I am too close. But I love that. I really like them as people."

• Mental Health Considerations: The hosts and Susan discuss the signs of mental instability in perpetrators and the importance of recognizing early warning signs to prevent future crimes.

  Notable Quote:

  • Tom (91:14): "Do you feel a cold breeze?"

• Impact of Investigative Work: Susan highlights how immersing oneself in crime investigation can lead to a deeper understanding of human behavior and societal flaws.

  Notable Quote:

  • Susan (95:02): "It's like, you go, this thing happened, and then you want to piece it. Everyone wants to piece things together."

Closing Remarks and Final Banter (120:35 - 121:48)

The episode concludes with the hosts wrapping up their discussion, expressing gratitude to Susan for her insights. They transition back to their signature humorous exchanges, touching upon lighter topics like cucumbers and playful teasing about personal anecdotes.

Notable Quote:

• Christina (121:37): "I eat cucumbers and then it makes me look better."

Conclusion

Episode 793 of Your Mom's House offers a compelling blend of humor and serious discussion, primarily centered around Susan Hendricks' exploration of a double murder case in Delphi. The hosts effectively balance light-hearted banter with thoughtful conversations on crime, media influence, and the human psyche, making the episode both entertaining and insightful for listeners.

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Highlights:

• In-depth interview with Susan Hendricks on her book and crime journalism.
• Exploration of the psychological motivations behind violent crimes.
• Discussion on the media's role in shaping perceptions of criminals and victims.
• Emotional insights into the impact of crime on families and investigative professionals.
• Engaging and humorous interactions between the hosts, maintaining the podcast's signature style.

Overall, this episode provides listeners with a nuanced understanding of the complexities involved in covering and understanding criminal cases, all while maintaining the comedic essence that Your Mom's House is known for.

Transcript

[A]

What's everybody, it's me, Tom Segura. I will be in San Francisco January 24th at the Chase Center. January 30th, I'm in Athens, Georgia. January 31st, Savannah, Georgia, February 1st, North Charleston, South Carolina and February 27th, Evansville, Indiana. All the dates and info [e-mail] tour well, welcome. Welcome to your mom's house.

[B]

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[A]

What's everybody, we are back here and it is time to get going. This is a huge episode. It's great to be doing this show for a year. Number 15, I think.

[B]

No way, Jose. Are you serious?

[A]

We started in 2010, so God damn. Later in 2010. But still it'll be 15 at some point this year.

[B]

Still my favorite thing to do in the whole wide world.

[A]

It's so much fun to look at.

[B]

My Gene, my Jean St. Jean and talk about farting and coming and all sorts of good stuff.

[A]

All types of neat things. Rod my this year is stacked. We have to slow roll the announcement of all the things happening this year. But just know this is a super packed year for us. I'm still on tour. I will be shooting a special at some point this year. I have a show coming out. I got some other things that I'm shooting. We're going to be doing some stuff. YMH Studios.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

It's very exciting. There's a lot of stuff happening.

[B]

There's a lot of stuff happening. I'm not touring yet because I'm still recovering from all my. Oh, I know. Bullshit. I know. I'm sorry. You had Invisalign and that was really traumatic and I had my own things going on.

[A]

Joke.

[B]

But I'm still selling lipstick. You guys get the perfect four. That is Berlin, Madison, Atomic Red and the Perfect Red. You should get them all for. And you know why? Because they cover all your bases. You got your daytime, your nighttime, your fancy, all of that. And you know, in honor of what's happening in the art world right now, the the Banana that got taped to the wall and sold. I'm throwing my hat in the ring. As an artist as well. You can buy my pieces of art. You can buy Tom as a cat choking. That was my homage to the Netflix, Netflix, Netflix debacle. All that cool stuff. Don't forget I'm not afraid of it anymore. I'm not afraid of that.

[A]

Don't forget that the lipstick is gender neutral. So. So this is not just for the ladies in your life. This is for any human.

[B]

It can go with your color beard if you want.

[C]

If you wish.

[B]

If you want.

[A]

Very cool. Very cool. All right, before we get into all the fun stuff, let's do an opening clip. What do you. What do you say there, bro?

[B]

If I think it is what it is, I'm be.

[A]

You don't know what it is yet. You don't know what it is yet, but this one's cool. Here we go. Happy Saturday.

[B]

Rum chocolate. Oh, he's gonna puke.

[A]

No.

[B]

Yes, he is. You liar. I hate you so much.

[A]

He's not.

[B]

Stop it. You're. You know that I hate you. I hate you so much.

[A]

He's not.

[C]

Yes, he is.

[A]

And I'm not ruining the clip. It really does just tastes like cinnamon crunch.

[B]

That's really good.

[A]

Don't bring anyone loving to this. Welcome. Welcome to your mom's house with Tom Segura and Christina Pajitsi.

[B]

Welcome to your mom's house. What's on.

[A]

God.

[B]

I don't like you anymore. I don't like you. You know what? I just got inspired for new artwork. No.

[A]

Yes. He doesn't throw up.

[B]

I don't want to listen to it.

[A]

I love it. You ruined it. He doesn't throw up. Happy Saturday. What's wrong with his mouth?

[B]

He's doing a gag.

[A]

He is.

[B]

How can you even curl your lip.

[A]

Under the whole time? It doesn't pop out.

[B]

You think that's really what it looks?

[A]

What do you think? He doesn't throw up.

[B]

It really.

[A]

It really does taste.

[B]

I hate you so much.

[A]

It really does tastes like cinnamon crunch.

[B]

That's really good. That is his lip, I guess.

[A]

I think it's his lip.

[B]

I hope your lip looks like.

[A]

I thought you said it doesn't bother you. Why did you take it out?

[B]

And I'm not gonna tell.

[A]

But why didn't. Why'd you take it out? You said it doesn't bother you anymore.

[B]

I don't like it. I don't like. I like either seeing it or not. I don't like the in between. What I don't like waiting. The anticipation of this, the sound and the thing, like I'd rather literally like.

[A]

It doesn't bother me anymore.

[B]

It's. What do you want from me? It's not my fault. My reaction. What do you want me to do?

[A]

Your reaction's stupid.

[B]

You're stupid. You're stupid. You smell bad. I'm gonna fucking draw another artwork for you. Stupid. You're stupid. Your mother. So annoyed. Why would you open on that? Why would you open on that? But I don't like that. You know, it doesn't make me laugh. So that's just for you.

[C]

Well.

[A]

What, I don't get to laugh? I'm not allowed to laugh?

[B]

Can you please do it? Sort of palette cleanser.

[A]

Fine, but you're ruining the vibe, just so you know.

[B]

No, no, you've already ruined the vibe.

[A]

No, the vibe was great.

[B]

We were having fun listening.

[A]

Everyone was having a good time.

[B]

Nobody liked it.

[A]

Everybody was.

[B]

Nobody liked it in there.

[A]

Really? Ask them. Ask them.

[B]

I don't think it's funny.

[A]

Jesus.

[B]

Please play something different.

[A]

God, stop talking.

[B]

You stop talking.

[A]

You're ruining everything.

[B]

You're ruining everything.

[A]

No, you are.

[B]

You.

[A]

You are. And you always do stop.

[B]

I always.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

This is always.

[A]

Your big flaw is that you ruin everything.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Like, we were all having fun and then you ruined it.

[B]

You knew that I wouldn't like.

[A]

No, he just. No, you knew I wouldn't like it. He doesn't throw up. And you just got through saying, it doesn't bother you.

[B]

You planned that before.

[A]

You just said it doesn't bother you.

[B]

I changed my mind. I changed my mind. The lady changed her mind.

[A]

And you said it last week. You're like, doesn't bother me anymore. You. You said this.

[B]

I know. Well, then show me another barf clip and I'll watch it. I didn't like the in between. I don't like the anticipation. Just show me someone puking or not. Fine. Show me someone else puking. I'll watch it.

[A]

Why are so many guys on here.

[B]

Obsessed with saying, just be gay?

[A]

Like, why do I have to just.

[B]

Label myself when the more gay things.

[A]

I do, the more I. The more I want to eat clams. Young nubile clams from the west coast of British Columbia. That is vile.

[B]

I love it. No, he's so free. Can you imagine being this free and this happy? I just love him. I love that he's so. He's just. He just is. He's everything.

[A]

Will Blunderfeld taking a. Like a gnarly While he talks about it, I guess everyone's saying just be gay. But is he not just being gay?

[B]

But you can't label him.

[A]

But he is doing gay constantly. He's saying he's not gay.

[B]

Well, he doesn't want to label it as gay. That's the whole problem. It's just. It's what, it's dude. Is what he's trying to say. Okay, maybe you should stop being so close minded and go on. Go visit him. Go on retreat.

[A]

Fine. Any.

[D]

Well, yeah.

[A]

Would you come on a retreat with Will?

[D]

Oh, no, I would not.

[A]

Why? Big?

[D]

No, I'm afraid.

[A]

How come?

[D]

How come? Yeah, how come? Well, yeah, the video. That video, that's why.

[A]

Well, which one?

[D]

What do you mean which? Any of them. Well, pick any of his videos.

[A]

Could we do. Could you do it if you just went to.

[D]

This is what y'all talking about in the conference room before y'all. Oh, how could we get any to do some gay.

[A]

No, no, no, no. Not to do gay. Not to do gay. No, no. Would you just go on a retreat. Hold on, hold on.

[D]

Yeah, I'm waiting.

[A]

Okay. Where you listen and you are participating to the level that you are comfortable with. No, no, I'm saying just like learning, listening, growing, participating, not. Not doing gay.

[D]

Huh? I mean, so what shit we doing?

[A]

Well, you know.

[D]

No, I don't.

[A]

Well, you're just learning, man.

[D]

Nah. Learning about what, dog? Learn about what? Just this electrician course. What, what's he teaching me? Trade skills and just to be, you.

[B]

Know, to be more masculine. How to, how to harness your masculine energy or chi.

[A]

And you don't have to do anything like nude unless you want to. Yeah, yeah.

[D]

I think I'm straight on this. I think I'm straight. I don't know what I could learn.

[A]

Okay, Wear boxers. Hold on. You wear boxers.

[D]

I'm wearing like 12 boxers.

[A]

Okay. You wear multiple boxers.

[D]

Wearing boxers, shorts, pants, and you just.

[A]

Let the, the guru kind of guide you.

[D]

This is crazy.

[A]

Come on.

[D]

Is this a real ask?

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

You're actually asking me this. How did you think this was gonna go? I'm so.

[A]

I thought that you would not want to. To. But all right. But I do think there's a path to growth.

[D]

You know, how much money would you say at the. Would be at the end of this path?

[A]

I mean, there would be a fee involved.

[D]

Obviously there would be a fee.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

How big is that fee?

[A]

I mean, we could, you know, let's.

[D]

Say it on the show. Let's say it on the Show. Everybody needs to know.

[A]

Well, it's not gonna. Come on. We can't talk. It's not. This is not lottery stuff. I mean, it'll be a fee.

[D]

What does that. What do you mean, lottery stuff? What does that mean?

[A]

Like, you can't just throw out some crazy number to go to a retreat, you know?

[D]

Like, I'm gonna do it like your mom. I'm do it like your mom. I ain't going to throw out a crazy number. We going to do this.

[A]

What's your fee for going to a retreat?

[D]

Thinking like 50k.

[A]

50K?

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

To better yourself. This is for. It's for your benefit, okay?

[A]

You got to come down for that.

[B]

He's acting like 49K. No, he's acting like this isn't in his benefit.

[A]

I know. You're going to learn so much. You're going to come back a more masculine man. Whoa. Come on, dude.

[D]

You know, it really made me look like a masculine man. What if I had a nice little rolly on this. On this arm right here? Or maybe two little rolls? I don't know. That made me feel real masculine. Yeah.

[B]

You know what, though?

[D]

50K in my hand.

[B]

By the way, you owe us. Because I hear that you're so fat that you've been breaking our chairs.

[A]

Huh? Yeah, they said you broke the chairs in the country.

[B]

Breaking chairs, you owe us.

[D]

What is.

[B]

Those chairs are ergonomic. $20,000 a piece.

[A]

Yeah, maybe skip a few meals, man. Like, how much are you weighing now?

[D]

I'm confused. I don't know what this is, but you broke chairs.

[B]

You owe us.

[D]

I broke chairs.

[B]

You owe us is what I'm saying.

[D]

I never broke a chair.

[C]

Yes, you did.

[B]

In the conference room. They told us.

[A]

They all said that you broke the chairs.

[B]

You are leaning back because you're so fat and you broke them, you mean.

[D]

No, no. See, what they mean to say is that they're stupid and they don't know how to fucking use chairs. That I didn't break. Shit. Let me push a button. I'll fix it right back up.

[A]

If I got you a really nice watch, would you go on the retreat?

[D]

How. How expensive is this watch? If I were to take it to the next.

[A]

You're gonna pawn it.

[B]

Don't do that. It's an asset.

[D]

It's an asset?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It'll increase value over.

[C]

Over time.

[A]

Get you a nice one.

[B]

It'll appreciate in value. I mean, I want to sell it.

[D]

But, see, I'd rather just buy myself one. You know what? I'm saying okay. Let's say okay. How about okay, all right.

[A]

I can't give you $40,000 to go on a retreat, man.

[D]

Why not?

[A]

It's insane.

[D]

That's not insane.

[A]

That is insane insane.

[D]

Ask to. To ask a black man to do some low key gay.

[A]

It ain't lowkey gay.

[D]

Okay, so you're right.

[A]

Oh, so are the samurai all gay?

[D]

Oh my God.

[B]

That's true, Tom. Good point.

[D]

Samurai ain't, I'll tell you that.

[B]

Jesus.

[A]

All right, good answer. Now.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

Come on, man.

[B]

You think there's no gay blacks black people in the world? Is that what you're trying to assert?

[D]

How did. How did you get this?

[B]

Well, he's. The assertion is that black people can't be gay.

[A]

That date just as nice.

[B]

That is a nice one. Boy, I bet though look real nice on Annie's wrist.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

After his retreat, after he's built muscle and endurance and strength.

[D]

Zolo, can you go ahead and copy paste that model into Google? Put shopping in there.

[A]

They got prices, right?

[D]

There we go. What is that, 10?

[A]

That's too low for you at 10,000.

[B]

That is ridiculous. Oh my God.

[D]

I gotta buy them on my house dog.

[A]

What?

[D]

I gotta buy my mom a house somehow.

[A]

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[D]

Plus, you already owe me 10 from the basketball game, so I owe you 10.

[A]

I owe you $10,000 on the basketball game.

[B]

What? When he won against Ryan, I thought we were doing something else from that.

[D]

No, we canceled that.

[A]

We canceled it.

[B]

Oh, my God. That's on you.

[A]

How do we cancel it?

[D]

What do you mean?

[A]

What do you mean?

[D]

And he canceled it.

[B]

He won air hair plugs. And then he goes. Then he goes, changes his mind. We were going to fly you to Turkey to get your.

[A]

Oh, yeah, you were all in on here.

[B]

Yeah. And then you change your mind. That's not our fault.

[D]

I mean, we could do that, too.

[B]

Yeah, but you got. You can't back out and then change what you want after that. We have to sign a contract.

[D]

See?

[B]

I mean, but you can't change your mind and then go, oh, but we owe you money.

[D]

But I didn't change my mind. We said. We said. What do we say? We said 10k. We said 10g's and. Yeah. And then Ryan accepted.

[A]

What you mean Ryan accepted? And what happened there?

[D]

We said. He ended up. Y'all said. Ended up saying, oh, this is unreasonable. We shouldn't do that, because, you know, that's not. What was it? That was not fair to me because what if I lost and it's too much this and that?

[A]

Oh, it was like a bet. I got you.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

All right, I'm a little confused, but I'm confused, too.

[B]

But then I thought we. We ended up saying that the. The prize for any would be a trip to Turkey to get hair.

[A]

Yes, that was the.

[B]

That was what we agreed on.

[A]

And then we came in, and he was like, I don't want to do that anymore. Then.

[B]

Then he changed his mind. About what? The prize.

[D]

I agree. It's very confusing. I tell you what. We'll settle all of it. 50,000.

[A]

You can't.

[B]

Silly. It's just ridiculous. You know what? Forget it.

[A]

We got to get you to go on this retreat, man. Please go on the retreat.

[B]

Please.

[D]

What you mean this is. I can't believe this is a serious ask.

[A]

It's a serious ask.

[D]

I can't believe this is a serious please. I. I mean, I'm saying please, too.

[A]

No, I know, but it's. That your. Your pleas. Is unreasonable. You can't give you $50,000.

[B]

Tom, which retreat are we doing? Is it Wills?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, you gotta go do that.

[D]

You see? You see? It's like, I don't even know. I don't even know if, like, I don't even know if 50k. Like, if I'm really gonna do that. And then I get there, and she's like, yeah, first. First thing you got to do, you just touch my dick a little bit.

[B]

No, that's not his style. It's all voluntary. Whatever you do is. Is voluntary. He is not gonna force you to do.

[A]

Come on, dude.

[B]

That's not how he is. I don't think he would just take.

[A]

One for the team and go take.

[D]

One for the team.

[B]

For the sake of fun and some arm. I mean, I just don't understand why you would refuse this help. It's so. It's so good.

[A]

Just do it. Can we say you'll do it?

[D]

We cannot say.

[A]

This is crazy.

[D]

Come on.

[A]

Don't you like being part of the team?

[D]

I love being part of the team.

[A]

Well, then, come on. Just do.

[D]

This is not what. This is what. This is what it takes to be a part of the team.

[A]

Well, this is how. You're one of the leaders on the team. Yeah.

[D]

This. What.

[A]

You're a leader.

[D]

I'm a leader.

[A]

Yes. All right. That's a yes. You're doing.

[D]

I did not say that.

[B]

Okay, great.

[A]

It's done. Let's say it's mostly settled. I did not say that. Yes.

[D]

This is a conversation. I'm having a conversation. I ain't say yes. It's crazy.

[A]

Okay, we'll revisit. But basically, he's pretty much. He's going, okay, so I'M excited for you. Here's the thing. I already have your prize for you for going.

[B]

Hey, black man. How are you? It's freaking snow. And what kind of a person besides the snow bunny goes out in the snow in shorts.

[A]

Anyways?

[B]

I was just calling to tell you that if you get you a snow bunny, we take care of your hair.

[C]

We take care of beard.

[B]

We take care of getting reservations for food. We take care of stuff.

[A]

Black guy struggles with snow.

[B]

We take care of making snowmans.

[A]

Do you want to build a snowman?

[B]

We take care of casserole dishes for the family parties.

[A]

Nice. We take care of everything.

[B]

Hey, black men. There she is. You know what time it is? It's almost tax season. Time to get you a snow bunny because, you know, we got that bread.

[A]

Is this like a appealing thing to you?

[D]

I mean, it's appealing to. Look at. I love. I love watching this girl on Instagram, but I would never get with that though, that bipolar crazy shit.

[A]

She's crazy.

[D]

Yeah. That's why.

[B]

Hold on.

[D]

I thought mania.

[A]

That's great.

[B]

I thought boys liked crazy chicks because they. They really put out.

[D]

Yes, boys. You're right.

[B]

Boys. Oh, men. Men are over.

[D]

Crazy men. Understand the consequences that come with those.

[B]

Oh, right. Yeah. The Fatal Attraction.

[A]

Seems like you already went to Will's retreat. You were talking like a grown man.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's right. And you know what? It's time. It's a new chapter in your life. It's time to expand your horizons and try new things.

[A]

Yeah, she's. It says here that she's married and.

[B]

Has two kids to a black man.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, sweet. But why she.

[C]

Listen.

[D]

Yeah, that's.

[B]

Man, what better way to start your new years out? She's slow. Would they snow money?

[A]

She really loves black.

[B]

Am I having a stroke or was that.

[D]

She put it in slow mo.

[A]

You didn't you.

[B]

Like either I did too many micro doses in the last week or. Okay, okay, okay. She's slow. Hey, can I. I think the new. Remember what eyebrows were?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Eyebrows used to be the tell for crazy chicks.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The new eyebrows is eyelashes.

[A]

Oh, eyelashes.

[B]

The lash extensions.

[A]

Eyebrows are still a pretty good indicator, but. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

If you shaved your eyebrows and penciled them on. Yeah, you're crazy. And if you do eyelashes like this. Chunky extensions.

[A]

You're absolutely insane, by the way. And this has been something I've been hearing a long. A long time because any brought up the basketball game. Ryan has been wanting to rematch any for a while. This is Ridiculous.

[D]

We're gonna do this again.

[A]

He wants to do it again.

[B]

No way, Jose.

[D]

Oh, my God.

[B]

That's awesome. Well, Ryan's in much better shape.

[A]

Yeah, it's the thing. He's. He's lost a lot of weight.

[B]

He's lost weight. He's been working out. He's been taking good care of himself.

[D]

Yeah. Damn.

[B]

Could be.

[D]

Yeah, that'd be cool, except no rematch. Sorry, buddy. One and done.

[B]

He's afraid. How about if Ryan wins, you go to the retreat?

[A]

What the.

[D]

No.

[B]

One.

[A]

No, no. I'm already signing you up, dude.

[D]

No.

[A]

Yes. No. Yes.

[D]

This is not gonna.

[A]

This has to happen.

[D]

Thomas, come on.

[A]

Any.

[D]

Thomas.

[A]

Are we not friends?

[D]

This is not how you see. This is how. Now I know how I sound when I do this to people. Okay, Now I know how this wheels. I see. Okay, well, this is not gonna happen, all right?

[A]

We're. We're getting there. We're getting there. I am sending a message to him.

[C]

You are?

[B]

What are you saying?

[A]

Are you telling Ryan that and he wants to go. Yes.

[B]

And he. Just do it.

[A]

Come on.

[D]

What happened? Have the people.

[B]

You know something? I think you need the retreat more than ever because you used to have this confidence. Remember? When anyone's confident?

[D]

Used to.

[B]

And now you're just kind of like, oh, I don't want to challenge Ryan. I can't. I'm afraid. Like, I feel like your confidence is waning. You need this retreat more than you know.

[D]

Damn. Now you're just going to try to hurt my feelings.

[B]

Well, you need to build yourself, your masculine energy back up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Will can help you.

[A]

Will can help you out. You want to be. You want to be a real man like this guy. I got the upest. Mahon.

[B]

Zs, dude.

[A]

Dude. Oh, yeah. Oh, dude. Oh, hell and angry. Wow. It didn't come out.

[B]

It didn't come out.

[A]

It didn't come out.

[B]

Yeah, that's why he's not in royal pain.

[A]

He was.

[B]

You need alcohol to do that.

[A]

He gripped it. You could hear it clank against his teeth.

[B]

Yeah, you need to be on drugs to do that to yourself. You need to be high on methane, opium.

[A]

He needs Falcon car wash. Yeah. Needs a little bit of Pepsi in a cup with some dog food on a knife.

[B]

Yeah, you need to be on drugs to do this. That's a problem. He's sober.

[A]

Yeah, man.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

Oh, man. This is America, right?

[B]

You dumb.

[A]

You gotta get it going, buddy. Yeah.

[B]

That's insanity. That's how you do it in sanity.

[A]

Here's a guy who Looks pretty cool. This is, I think, maybe a holiday video.

[C]

It's from the atl, bro.

[B]

Yeah, he's from the Atlanta.

[A]

That guy's face is wrecked.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That fall.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

From the choke to the floor, landing on your face.

[B]

Yeah. Did it to himself.

[A]

He totally did. Everything was to himself.

[B]

That's the sad part. In slow motion.

[A]

Yeah. They're like, get the out of here now. They're like, God damn it.

[B]

This guy just died on our bar.

[A]

He's just unconscious now on our floor. God damn it.

[B]

I tell you, the. The nightlife business is a hard one. Bar. I've worked in bars. We tell jokes.

[A]

I don't want anything to do with it.

[B]

It's just. You're just dealing with chaos all the time. The security you need. Drunk people are the worst to deal with.

[A]

Very, very sad.

[B]

Very sad.

[A]

What's up, fight fans? It's a new year, which means new matchups and all new action to keep you pumped up this weekend. Tune into the fights this weekend and don't forget to get in on the action with our partners at DraftKings Sportsbook, they are offering all new customers $200 in bonus bets instantly after betting. Just so don't wait. Download the DraftKings app now. Sign up using the code MOM. The Crown is yours. Love the thrill of live betting. DraftKings has you covered with live markets like Fight to Go the distance, making watching the fights even more exciting. If sports betting is not yet available in your state, don't worry. You can still join in on all the fun with DraftKings Daily Fantasy and have the shot to win cash Prizes. Download the DraftKings sportsbook app now. New customers use my promo code moments and bet just $5 on any wager and get $200 in bonus bets instantly. That's promo code MOM only at DraftKings Sportsbook.

[C]

Gambling problem.

[A]

Call 1-800-GAMBLER in New York.

[D]

Call 877-8-HOPENY or text hopeny467-369 in Connecticut.

[A]

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[B]

Oh, my God, she's back.

[A]

We've had some, if you don't know, some other stuff in the past just to give you a refresher. Okay.

[B]

Oh, she's so great.

[C]

We have very few ingredients. We have tomatoes, we have.

[B]

How do you say anything?

[C]

Cucumber. Cucumbers.

[A]

How do you say it?

[C]

English.

[B]

How do you say there's been some questions about where I'm born in Boston. So I spent some of my childhood in Boston, some of my childhood in Spain.

[A]

Got it. So that's why she was like, I don't know how to say.

[B]

How'd you say do it, Tommy? Do her. Because you do that.

[A]

How you say Hillarya.

[C]

Are these charges?

[A]

I'm gonna tell you what I'm gonna say.

[B]

You're not gonna ask me questions.

[A]

You're not gonna ask.

[B]

Okay, Okay. I want you guys to realize that we have seven kids.

[C]

Jesus.

[B]

And you being here, being here to.

[C]

Escort them to school, escort them to school, be there when they come home, is not good.

[B]

It's not good. So on a human level, you guys know I'm not going to say anything to you, you know that.

[A]

So please leave my family in peace.

[C]

Please, and let this all play out.

[B]

She talks like she was born in Honduras or some.

[A]

It's so funny. Her name is Hilaria Lynn Hayward Thomas.

[B]

Hilarious.

[A]

From Boston.

[B]

Not hilarious.

[A]

Sorry. Hillary Hills from Boston. She is of English, French Canadian, German, Irish and Slovak descent. She says she was raised in a Spanish speaking household and traveled to Spain annually. Okay. She also said she began to use the name Iladia as she got older.

[B]

So anyway, please, it's not good for my children. Please come photographing me and my children.

[A]

Here's the newest one.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[C]

Please explain what your.

[A]

I mean, I don't know what that.

[C]

One is, but I can tell you that my tortilla potatoes, you have to.

[B]

Not cut them too tiny because they're.

[A]

Not going to have the right texture.

[C]

And then I. My husband hates.

[B]

I forgot it.

[C]

Okay. So he hates Seboya. And so I grind sea and ao.

[B]

Oh, my God. An. What did she grind?

[A]

My. What's the word for sea? Onions.

[B]

How you say.

[A]

How you say. She's like how my mom talks. Oh, I know that's how my mom talks. Yes. Who Learned English at 31.

[B]

Yeah. She's claiming to forget her native tongue. It's just.

[A]

It is so fun how you say, how do you stay?

[C]

And I make this a tortilla here for you. And then my husband, he don't like.

[B]

How you say, I'm Jones.

[A]

I forget.

[C]

I forget it.

[A]

How do you say my first language? My first language, I say in English.

[B]

Why? And she also has that baby voice, like that highly voice. If you're. Listen, if you've been sexually assaulted. No, it's true.

[C]

That's why all the girls in porn.

[B]

They have high register. It's a sign of assault. Just lower the register in your voice and you'll sound way more intelligent. No, listen, it's true story. I believe it was Margaret Thatcher when she started working in Parliament.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Had a vocal coach to bring her voice down a few octaves because it's not.

[C]

It's not pleasant to listen to it up here.

[A]

Yeah, well, you feel like you're listening to a kid. You want to listen to an authority. You want the authority to have a deeper.

[B]

You got that gravel?

[A]

Well, yeah, just like. Just talk like you mean business.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I've been doing a lot of things out there, guys.

[C]

I've been thinking.

[B]

Oi.

[A]

Hey, wanna know something? Gone to the UK soon.

[B]

Oi.

[A]

That's right, love, yeah.

[C]

Oi, I'm Margaret Thatcher.

[A]

First things first, as the Prime Minister.

[B]

Higher taxes.

[A]

We are going to the uk.

[B]

Oh, no, I can't wait, mate.

[A]

I have a tour. Some of it is outside of the uk, but it's still in the region. I'll be going to Dublin, Glasgow, London, Manchester, Manchester, Birmingham, Cardiff. And am I forgetting one. I don't remember. Bam. Cardiff.

[B]

Where else? Wales. No, that isn't Cardiff. Cardiff is Wales.

[A]

Is it Is Birmingham.

[B]

Bam is Birmingham. That's outside of London.

[A]

It's all down in March.

[B]

Let's see. I'm so excited.

[A]

Oh, Belfast. Forget Belfast. Last. Oh, Nottingham.

[B]

Nottingham. Not exciting, mate. Wembley. He's doing the Wembley.

[A]

Yep. It's all very exciting.

[B]

This is so rad. I can't wait to come. We're gonna have the greatest family vacay.

[A]

It'll be fun. Oi. What?

[B]

No, you got to practice your cool British accent. Nay is Australian.

[A]

Nay. I know they were. Do you know that that was a thing last night at Bottom of the Barrel? Well, one of the things was, like, how Australians say no.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then there was an Australian guy in the audience that we made him speak.

[B]

Did he say it?

[A]

He was like, no. Everyone's like, you're not fucking doing it. Right. He was like, man. We're like, say water. He was like, water. And we were like, that's. I get it. We were kind of come up with things that for him to say that we would be lost on it was very fun.

[B]

Well, I can't wait for you to do your cockney accent in England and tell people you love them and. Happy birthday.

[A]

Happy birthday. It's your birthday.

[B]

It's your birthday. Especially when you tip people. It's your birthday.

[A]

It's your birthday. Happy birthday.

[B]

Evening, Governor.

[A]

Hello.

[B]

It's your birthday.

[A]

Oh, this is some serious. So we have to switch to something. This is serious, if you don't mind.

[B]

Oh, I'm sorry.

[A]

Please put. Could you get serious for a second?

[B]

I'm sorry.

[A]

Everything's a joke. Okay, so in one of the great crimes of modern times, this has yet again happened. I have been misgendered three times in the past 24 hours at restaurants. Last night, I was at Benihana with my girlfriend, and the server said, what about you, sir? What would you like to eat? My girlfriend, God bless her heart, steps in, says, actually, that's ma'am. And she looks at my girlfriend and didn't really understand what had happened and said, no, I'm talking to him, pointing at me. Our jaws were on the floor. Me, too. We decided to leave because it was just a bad vibe. And just a few minutes ago, I was at another restaurant for lunch, and they showed me my seat and said, here you go, sir. And I said, I am not a sir. Yeah. So fucking crazy that this keeps happening. I'll tell you why it keeps happening. Because you look like a guy and.

[B]

You talk like a guy.

[A]

Yeah. So if you want people to fucking start calling you ma'am, start looking like one.

[B]

I know.

[A]

You're not putting in enough effort. Fuck face. No, you gotta fucking try harder. There's a reason that everyone keeps doing this to you is because your level of effort sucks. Step it up. You have a masculine fucking face.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Go get some surgery. Wear a prettier dress, get better hair, and start talking in a higher voice like Hilaria. Yeah.

[B]

Also, maybe not wear a bark collar out in the world.

[A]

I thought that was a. A voice adapter changer.

[B]

I wish.

[A]

Just a microphone.

[B]

No, it's a microphone. It looks like that collar you put on your dog so it doesn't bark when people ring the doorbell.

[A]

I don't know how you can get mad at this.

[B]

This clown. He's been all crazy. So upset with people constantly misgendering me. And you know who he gets mad at? The bus boys. Like, people that have no. You don't care.

[A]

Yeah. Don't do this sweet El Salvadorian person pouring water. He's like, yeah. Yes. He's like, for fuck's sake. It's just like a nice little immigrant guy.

[B]

Yes. I'll tell you what, too.

[C]

It.

[B]

It's. I really do wish in another life if I could open up a shop to consult trans women, like, help these dudes actually look like women. I would love to do.

[A]

And then I left. Yeah. Because I wasn't comfortable anymore. Right. And I went to a new restaurant and I asked before I sit down, where. Where's the bathroom, please? And they said, oh, it's right this way, sir. Yeah. And I just left because I wasn't comfortable. So you're just going to keep leaving every. In the food industry, you don't need to use words like sir or ma'am. There are ways to be respectful without using those words. And if you get it wrong for someone like me, I will probably leave the restaurant. And it puts, like, a bad vibe on my day when it happens. Especially when it happens three times in a row. Yeah. But this is fair to say also, this person is mentally ill. Yeah. This. This is a complete lunatic.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, after seeing a series of these videos, you're like, okay, well, I think this is all a charade.

[B]

It's a charade. And it's all about picking fights. It's like this person's waiting to be called out and then get well.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Mad on Tick tock. Like, just relax.

[A]

And he's waiting to Go in with his dog collar. Yeah, well, his dog collar and his dock worker face and going like, hey, how come no one's like, excuse me, miss. Because no one sees it. Because. And then you're just going to be like, I'm going to keep going into places. It's like the definition of insanity.

[B]

It is, it is. And I think. I imagine. I think this person lives in San Francisco, I want to say, which is a very open, lenient, trans friendly town. So, I mean, there's nothing but trans.

[A]

And it just goes all the way back to your level of effort. You're just not trying hard enough.

[B]

No, you should try harder. I definitely need to get your face shit done taken care of. Yeah, his. His face is still very masculine. It's not passing.

[A]

See my wild side.

[B]

I show everything.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

That's why he's doing this.

[A]

But including a cock, which also belongs to men. Watch me jack off with my feminine dick.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, come on. Now, now, wait. The gig is up. We know what you're doing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just directing traffic to the only fans. Huh?

[A]

Got it.

[B]

Got it. You know, this makes me mad.

[A]

You're not the only one that's gonna have a hot only fans. Charo is getting closer to getting going and the fans are still ready and asking for it. What's everybody, this is a message for Charo.

[B]

Get not only fans, girl.

[A]

You know what we want to hear.

[B]

I love this. I love this.

[A]

Dude, that shift was really scary. Yeah, that was terrifying.

[B]

Let's watch it again.

[A]

Yeah, that was so scary. What's everybody, this is a message for Charo, okay?

[D]

Getting on only things, girl.

[A]

You know what we want to hear here. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, it was amazing.

[A]

It was great.

[B]

And by the way, he's got the cool guy angle. He's got B. The audio I like.

[A]

He's got music playing. Looks like he's cooking or something. Or painting. Got an apron on. Hey, Hitler's Brandon from Ohio. Just wanted to weigh in on the Charo only fans debacle. Big time. Yes, yes, yes, yes. The people want to see it. The people need to see it. It's riveting. It's exciting.

[B]

It's new.

[A]

I'd pay 15 bucks a month. Wow. Let's get Charo on only fans. Thank you, sir. Thank you very much for that.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

That was great.

[B]

Hey, Charlie.

[A]

This is Luchad.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

From Scotland telling you to get your arse in gear and get that only fans made.

[A]

Let it rip. Yes.

[B]

Thank you, guys. Awesome.

[A]

There's excitement around this.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And I Think we're going to get her in here soon. We're gonna show her these, and I, I hopefully think we can get a page going.

[B]

She's getting ready. She's getting ready. She's getting her Botox today.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Yeah. Taking her to get her face.

[A]

Yeah. I got a cool phone call.

[C]

What happened?

[A]

She was like, I'm on my way to do this thing. And I go, okay, I'm driving. She's like, how do I pay for this?

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Which is basically like, how are you gonna pay for this? And I was like, I, I, I don't know. I'll reimburse you. And she's like, yeah, I think I have a checkbook. I go, you're gonna bring a checkbook?

[B]

Check.

[A]

God, you really are old as I know.

[B]

Anyway, she wants you to pay for it. I got her a ride today. I gave her a ride.

[A]

You took her?

[B]

I didn't take her, but I got somebody to drive someone to driver. So she's shaking me down for the ride. And now she's shaking you down. This is crazy. She's not destitute. She is not poor at all.

[A]

At all.

[B]

I can't believe she just shakes us down forever.

[A]

Everything. Everything.

[B]

I can't believe she just did it to me. Now she's shaking me down.

[A]

Yesterday it was, can I have a bag? Yeah, you have so many bags.

[B]

Ask me for a bag.

[A]

So this is like, luggage, right? And I do have a lot of luggage.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just years of so much traveling. So I was like, okay, give me this backpack. I'm like, no, I just bought this backpack. Like, well, give it to me. I'm like, no. And so then she goes, don't you have something? Something I can have? So I emptied a bag and I go, here. And I gave her a bag. And I go, I don't think you're going to want to take this. Why? I go, because it's empty right now. When it's full, you. It's a duffel. You're not going to want to throw it over your shoulder, you know?

[B]

Of course it's heavy.

[A]

No, it's fine. And then in the car, I'm like, I really think you're not going to like that unless it's full of your stuff. You are, right? I go, yeah. She goes, so you have another bag? I go, yeah, I have a roller bag. I'll give you a roller bag because you're not going to want to lug one over your shoulder. No, you are right. When can I Have the roller. I'm like, the next time you come over. Unbelievable.

[B]

She wants everything, and she wants it right now.

[A]

She should pair up with the misgendered person.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I feel like they would be a good match.

[B]

Cry. You know, we should do. I was thinking. Because every time she sees what I have, she wants it. She wants my handbag. She gets in my car yesterday and she's like, oh, what do I have to do to get this bag? I go, nothing. You can't have this. Yeah, here's what we should do. Let's go to the 99 cent store.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And just buy a bunch of. Bunch of wrap. Every single thing. So when she comes over like, we got you something.

[A]

It's like a toddler.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So she can feel like we un. Like she unwrapped a gift.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Are you retarded?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So retarded.

[A]

Yes, she is. Any. You really need to take a. I know you're black and you guys do your own thing, but you still have to shed.

[D]

Thank you, Charles.

[A]

Yep. It's very true.

[D]

For the reminder.

[A]

All right, let's take a quick break. We'll be right back. And we are back. You know our guest perhaps from hln, maybe cnn, and she's also the author of down the Hill, My Descent into the Double Murder in Delphi. It's Susan Hendricks.

[C]

Yeah. Good to see you guys.

[A]

Thank you for coming.

[C]

I'm so excited to be here.

[A]

We're very excited. Me in particular.

[B]

He's been erect all day. Just thinking about talking about murders with you.

[A]

I mean, you know that most of our television consumption is Jason. Basically her. Just literally every night when I get into bed, she goes, are you going to watch a murder? And she's like, I'm gonna go to bed. As you watch a murder.

[B]

No, no, no. I go, what are you gonna watch? Genocide, Murder, Serial killers, Kidnapping. What awful thing are you gonna.

[A]

And then she drifts off as I dive into a new story.

[C]

Well, they're captivating. They bring you in.

[A]

Thank you for doing this. Because one of the reasons is that she also is like, you know, you're a sick person. Like, she'll say this to me, right? She's like, you're sick. Something's wrong with you. Why are you watching this before sleep? What are you filling your head with? And then I also would be like, hey, you realize this is the number one show trending right now. Like, she thinks I'm like, you think they produce this for me? Like, there's a lot of people watching Right.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But let me tell you, we watched that documentary the other night and I couldn't sleep for two. What was it called again?

[A]

You love her Killer Mother Killer Lover, Stalker Killer.

[B]

And I couldn't sleep for hours. I was so upset. I felt traumatized. I felt sick to my stomach. Now, how is it that. How do you. How do you live with this stuff?

[C]

I was watching an episode, you guys. I'm so excited to be here again. I'm a huge fan. You guys got me through Covid.

[A]

Thank you.

[C]

I would come back and from the numbers ticking up at cnn and it's like fight or flight constantly. And then I come home and I listen to Sebastian and Picoriella, you guys. And now my algorithm is. That's all I listen to, is you guys. Good. But. Right. My sister would say, oh, I fall asleep to Forensic Files.

[B]

Oh my God.

[C]

And when covering this story out of Delphi, it was two young girls murdered in the middle of the day. And I was sent there by cnn. I didn't know about the story much about it, just that the 14 year old Libby was able to hit record on her cell phone. And they got this kind of the guy on this abandoned bridge in the woods. I used to play outside. It was Gen X. That's what you did. Come home when the lights go on. It was a day off from school. They were down there and it was secluded. And she was able to. He was a blurry version because he was far away, but they got his voice saying, guys down the hill. So I was sent here. I met the families. Normally with the news cycle, when I'm in studio, teleprompter story, you know, the A block, the B block. It's very formulaic, so you care, but you're. You're on to the next, the next, the next. Well, this one, I was in their kitchen. I had spaghetti with the families. I saw their rooms and I went, oh my. I saw the bridge. And they were looking for the guy. Fast forward. I really got to know them well, especially Libby's family. And every family deals with it differently. And Libby's family was very open. They were speaking at Crimecon, holding up a sketch like, we need help finding this guy. And I think that was their focus, to get them through. And Mike, Libby's grandfather was there and he would say, come to the meet and greet. And I said, it's inappropriate. I shouldn't be here. I'm not part of that. He said, come, and he kicked me under the table because. In a nice way, but say you have to be here. These women would show up and cry. They're waiting in line. They care. So I think what I found out through this whole community is the connection. So at Crimecon, it's either people who have, who have literally gone through it. I interviewed BTK's daughter Kerry Rossin on stage because I met her through Kelsey Sister. Well, she said, I trust you, Susan. I gave Carrier your name. Is that okay? She just wrote a book. I said, that's fine. And I met her and she's amazing and she's shaking backstage. And she said, I'm nervous. People don't like me. They say that I look like my father. And I'm so glad that this family's nice to me because I'm on the other side. And I said, what other side? There's no, you didn't do this. It was your father. She said, I had no clue, Susan. He'd make me scrambled eggs. He'd say, fill up your tires before driving back to college, walked her down the aisle. And that, to me, I got that. It's part of the fascination. Like what, Wait a minute, what? Because the Mansons look like man. Yes, the father. And with this, it ended up being a guy. CVS father. He walked his daughter down the aisle at CVS when the aunt of one of the girls walked in crying for the funeral and said, develop a picture for her. He said, it's on me. It was him. He looks normal. We think that they're not going to look normal.

[A]

Well, that's part of the fascination, right, Is that first of all, I think you just, these are behaviors that all extreme violence is accessible to everyone. In other words, everyone has thought, God, I want to kill this person. I'm so mad, I want to hit this person. But you always, you stop yourself. Right? Like you want to. You're so angry. And so the fact that somebody is capable of doing that, I think is part of the fascination that somebody crosses the line, right?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

And then there's the, the story aspects to this because they're fascinating. Like how did the person go about doing this horrible thing?

[C]

Got away with it for five years.

[A]

To get away with it. And then how did we piece together the, the investigation to catch the person? So that whole arc, I think is why these stories are never get old.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

It's just always you're like, how did this happen? How can somebody do this? And then how do you catch them?

[C]

And I have an 8 year old son and I interviewed Amber. I'm like, is it nature or Nurture, like, what is it? Can you raise a murder? Like, what is it? She's a. Well, that's the question that everyone asks, but it usually is not always. But there's abuse there. We all want to, like, compartmentalize to be like, why? And the why is never like a. Oh, okay, I get it. I get it. So he was 44 years old when he went down there. And he said when I first walked into this trial, because I had seen him when they finally made an arrest. And he. He looked back at me and he didn't take his eyes off me first. And I went like. Because you know how you normally do that. And I go, what's going on?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

This was a hearing before the trial, and Tara, Libby's aunt, said to me, oh, he always does this. He glares at us and he would look at me like this. The guy's like 5, 4. And I'm like, what? 44 years old, wakes up one day and decides to murder someone. But I've gotten to know Paul Holes who solved the Golden State killer case, and he's like, Susan, you can have sick fantasies about this for years and never act on that.

[A]

Golden State case is.

[B]

What is that? Just tell me to remind. Oh, my gosh.

[C]

It was originally the person because it happened from the 70s and it was an ex cop, but it was called the.

[A]

Yeah, he started. He started with break ins.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

So what he would do is just break into homes, ransack them. He was like robberies, you know, and then it escalated to assaults and then to murders. And he did it. I mean, his numbers were actually off the charts.

[C]

Sadistic.

[A]

It was off the charts with how many people? Not the murders are obviously, like the highlight, but if you know how many people he actually broke into homes and. And assaulted. Even before that. It was like triple digits.

[C]

And this is before, of course, cell phones. Like with this guy who got caught, Richard Allen, it was. He didn't bring a cell phone down there, but it's kind of like you're able to see his car past a certain building, even though the town was less than 3,000 people, which I think it hurt him.

[A]

120 burglaries.

[C]

Jesus, 51 years. And no one suspected he was an ex cop. But what he would do, he'd tie up the husband, have him watch and put a. Like a crystal cup on his back and say, if I hear this smash, you're all dead. And he killed, I mean, countless people, of course. And finally Paul said to me, susan, I had to look out for This I put everything that aligned with what I thought I would say, okay, I think I got the guy. And he said in everything that didn't, I'd kind of push away. And he said I had to be very careful about that, because it turned out that because the DNA came back, it wasn't the guy I thought it was. He pulled in front of his house, and Paul Holes has the most amazing book. And he thought, I'm gonna go in. This is him. I know it's him. And he goes, thank God. I didn't like what he fantasized about going in. And the first page of Paul Holes book, he said he was so devoted. And he said he was at this strip club, and he thought to himself he would see the young girl he was with a bunch of guys, and he'd say, I'd see her in, like, an autopsy table. And he's like, I'm going crazy. He's like, what the fuck am I doing? I'm going crazy. And he said he felt more comfortable, though, at an autopsy than a cocktail party. It ruined marriages. But he's good at it. I know, but. But he'd look at a scene and say, swab the foot. Like he has a way of solving it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

No, the story was just. It was unbelievable. I mean, the. The HBO series. They had a series on it about Michelle McNamara. That's right. That's Pat married to that actor. Yes. And she was obsessed with the case.

[C]

And during.

[A]

Yeah. And. And it was. Yeah, it's. It is one of the most incredible stories.

[C]

If it wasn't for Michelle McNamara and Paul Holtz points us out all the time, it wouldn't have been solved.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

She became.

[A]

She was like the driving force of.

[C]

This thing, like an armchair detective, so to speak, and really kind of dug into it and was taking things to sleep at night, and then it ended up accidentally killing her. The prescription mixed with something. And sometimes I have my sister called. Don't get into too much into crimes. Michelle McNamara died. Like, you can't. You have to separate this. And my mom would say, can't you tell them you have kids now? No more murders. I'm like, mom, I can't go into CNN like, excuse me.

[A]

Excuse me. No more murders.

[B]

Well, that's what I was gonna ask.

[A]

But this also was. Yeah, this guy also, just by the way, was married. Kids, grandkids.

[B]

Of course, they all have the profile, don't you know? Do you ever get afraid of retaliation?

[C]

I do, but I think that I'm very skilled at Compartmentalization. I don't know if that's a good thing. I'm able to tell other people's stories and focus on that. I don't get afraid. But my son the other day is in second grade. He gets Mom. He's just so sweet. He goes, so there was a mom, say, at reading, and she writes poetry. It was my friend's mom. And I said to him, I'm like, my mom writes books. What kind of books? He goes, don't tell anybody. Murder. And my mom goes, well, Lisa said, don't tell anybody. I'm like, the Catholic way. Like, what? But I told that to Nancy Grace. I'm like, I swear, he's in therapy. He's gonna be a therapy murder. And then I. When I decided to write this, and it's different because no one was caught at the time, I just got to know the families, and I thought, there's something there about their perspective. And growing up, I digress. Back to New Jersey, I think I was, like, 10 or 11. Our cousin, the Keefe family, is like four very pretty girls. And the dad worked in local politics. So did my dad and the brother, and she was murdered. And I heard my parents talk about it, like, on the landline. And we heard rumors, like, was it a drug dealer in New Brunswick, NJ? No one ever talked about it, and we didn't. And our friend, whose sisters were friends with Kathy Keith, said it was a drug deal. And it was this. So finally, when I was writing this, I. I mentioned it, and I said to my dad, dad, what happened? And he goes, oh, it was her boyfriend. I went, what do you mean, boyfriend? I thought it was a drug dealer because, well, they were doing drugs, but it wasn't a drug dealer. I'm like, why don't you tell us? He's like, what am I going to tell my teenage girls about that? So I. I did call the sister and say, can I mention this? And it was. There was a newspaper article that I found. And it's funny because it. It says, like, the headline of this. And when I. The editor, Hachette, said more of this. But if the sister said, I don't want to talk about it, I wouldn't have. And it was more like the headline was like, dead woman is daughter of official. Did. Did they get preferential treatment? Which was like, the headline. But anyway. So I thought, is that why? I don't know why. But anyway, it's. I think it's about the draw to. It is people want to understand why. And I Feel like they can. They think that they could help. Maybe. I'm not sure.

[A]

Do you. Did you find that? I mean, obviously, this. This title is very telling, my descent into this, that you became obsessed with this. Then. Did you become obsessed with.

[C]

Oh, I did.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. Because I was used to being on set, and there's a teleprompter and their.

[A]

Stories and just move on.

[C]

I did Anderson's show at night, and you move on. You. And you're good at moving on. And then I got to know them too well, and I would just start crying for no reason. And then the pandemic hit. My sister's like, I think you're too involved. I'm like, I'm not too involved. I just. And I get criticized, like we all do online, I guess, but it's like, she's not a journalist. Who does she think she is? She's too nice to the local cops. They were. I really like the local authorities, but I found out my. My cousin Kevin Hendricks, who's 10 years younger than me, I still look at him, was a kid. He's in the FBI. And I said, what do you. Can you look into this? Like, what's going on? There's tips. It's a town of less than 3,000 people. It's like. But I think that was a deterrent. You would think, oh, it's Jim. No. You don't think it's the guy who you like? Who.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

Who you see in town. So he's like, okay, I'm gonna write you back like this. And don't look at this and open this as this. And I thought, I'm gonna see stuff. This is two years before in a row. And he goes, oh, forget it. I know what he gets. They shut the FBI out. They kicked him out. Because when someone's missing, the FBI is automatically invited in. The girls were missing when their bodies were found. They have to be invited in. And guess what they gave them the tip line. Nothing. The ego. So you think you see it in the movies? It happens.

[A]

Wait, now, why do you think. Because you have, I'm sure, a very clear perspective on this. Why do you think these stories and this genre in particular appeals to women so much?

[C]

That's such a good point. Or a good question. And I've wondered that, too. And Kevin Balf, who puts on Crimecon, I've. I've asked him that, and it's a. It's a funny story. Him and his brother own Red Sea Adventures, and Nancy Grace Kemp came to them after HLN. And said it was kind of a podcast umbrella.

[A]

And.

[C]

And he said, oh, let's go to the crime conventions. And there were none. And he said. So we started one. He could. He's like, it could have been a colossal failure because I didn't know. I wasn't really. He said. But what I found is that women either want to know. And I've heard this said in kind of a joking manner. Like women when they go on a date, if they don't know that they're worried they're gonna get killed. Like women want to be armed with the information. So I don't know if it's that, but the Scott Peterson. I think it's the person who doesn't look like a killer. And so you're like, wait a minute, that guy could. And Chris Watts, the most horrific. It's like he looks normal. Who's Chris Woods? The one horrible.

[B]

He looks totally normal.

[C]

Killed his two little girls. And the wife.

[B]

Yeah, and the wife.

[C]

It got so bad. And I'm. I'm good at staying at this level on the air. Well, that day it was the hearing where the prosecutor. I think he did this on purpose, explained everything he did to those girls. And I was with guys, I'm usually with contributors. This was Joey Jackson, an attorney. And my eyes were water and I. And I looked at him because my God. So he kept talking and I.

[B]

It was horrific because usually it is the husband. Correct. That kills children.

[C]

I want to tell future husbands, if you're thinking about doing this or like you get caught, it's the guy.

[A]

They always get caught.

[B]

But what about those anomaly cases like the JonBenet Ramsey's or Madeline Maan or they're like, oh, it's not the parents. Like, I mean usually.

[C]

And even in the Delphi case, usually these Internet. The thing I love about YouTube and I was able to find you guys and podcasts. Everyone has a voice. But the bad news is everyone has a voice. So some people could go on there and blame the families that have nothing to do with it. I think with murder and abuse of kids, if it. It usually happens inside the house of its family, outside the house when they're on a bridge. It's not gonna. You're gonna be like dad, if they're walking towards you with. It depends who you ask with Matty McCann. I never ever thought. Because I covered that, but not as extensive as others. I never met the parents, but I always thought like something happened. And it's funny, I stayed at a hotel with my husband. I'M like, nobody leave this room. I'm a little nuts now, a lot nuts, because I'm like, didn't you see the Maddie McCann thing? You think of everything that could happen. And he's like, we have a sitter. There's a sitter there. I'm like, should we not bring the kids? So you always think of the worst case scenario, but there are people out there who said maybe it was an accidental death and the parents covered up, but you can find anything that you.

[A]

Believe that will cover up. And maybe, you know, you can't help but think about the JonBenet case because it's, you know, the other thing is, as I mentioned this in, in some of the other stories, like even the Menendez story, is that, you know, you're alive during it. But, but you, you kind of, you're like, oh, yeah, the guys that killed their parents. And then you watch the documentary again and you're like, oh, I don't remember any of this, or I didn't know any of this. And the JonBenet documentary was a real, really informative and also a big time refresher because I was like, you know, I remember the story.

[C]

I know you're young and you're young.

[A]

And you're like, I remember that when, when it started, I was like, oh, yeah, so who ended up being arrested for that again? That's how I. And I was like, oh, right. They never really got anybody.

[C]

When I go back and forth on JonBenet at first, I never, I've met the dad at CrimeCon and a nice man, and I was in the green room with him, and he said, you know, Susan, I think I'm fighting for that. Like in Delphi, I want the FBI to be, to stay in certain jurisdictions. And I said, I understand. And at first I wasn't clear about what happened or I didn't have a thought. And then I read a book on it and I thought, oh, could it have been the son? And that, you know, parents would. Because you're not. I thought about it. I wouldn't stick up for my husband if he did this ever. But if my daughter accidentally, would I stick up for the kids? So that's where my head went. But I don't know if we'll ever know. The note was odd.

[B]

The notes, so odd.

[A]

Think of the note that the, the placement. Well, first of all, her being in the home, you know, the access to that home through that window. The note is beyond peculiar. But also seeing, okay, take the father aside, seeing how I believed how distraught this mother was.

[C]

Me too.

[A]

And it just didn't register to me like that she was just being like, I got you to him on this. I know it's very peculiar.

[C]

I don't think we'll ever know. But I think something happened inside of that house and I don't think we'll ever know what it is. I really don't. And it's horrible that Patsy passed away and that, you know, he wouldn't you though, if there were suspicion on you just kind of go away. He's still a crime con. He's still out there. He wants it tested. He even came out and said recently, look, I think that. I know you're gonna say what that I think.

[B]

Here's what I think, okay? You know, when the mind is very powerful and I'm not accusing anybody of anything, you know what I mean? But let's just say I did something terrible and I could convince myself that I'm innocent. And I might believe that lie so much, I might go to church every day just to show other people how innocent I am. I might try to absolve myself of the sin by overcompensating. Someone find my daughter. Someone find my husband. I call my husband so much before.

[C]

I came on here. I said I was going to talk about this feast csi. And I said, what do you think? Tell me. I won't quote you. She just quote me. Think it's the dad?

[A]

Well, there's people, a lot of people doing what she said, which is, you know, when they go, all right, we'll submit for this. And they go, sure, I'll give you my DNA. And then the DNA is a match. You know that there is DNA, some DNA in this case as well, that isn't a match for the father.

[C]

Right. And I think it depends on what documentary you watch, because my sister just watched one that John was leading, right? And so she said, there's no way. She said, burke reminds me of Jack. My son's. Jackie's a. There's no way he's gonna kill. I said, well, what if it was accidental? And then they covered up. And she's like, I just think it's not true. And I'm not saying I feel bad if John, if he is innocent and think of the life and the hell he went through. But it's just bizarre, the note that there's too many things I don't know.

[B]

So bizarre.

[C]

So bizarre. But you're right about that. So Cheryl McCollum is her name. She works for Nancy Grace. She's the most amazing person. I love her. And she's like, Susan, this is Cheryl. She said if I was looking for Caroline, her daughter, would I say I found her or would I say like just that she picks up on things that I don't like. And then there she was. Wouldn't you say, oh my God, there's my son. Like. But then I think back to like, do we, do we put ourselves in that situation and think how would we react? But the truth is the Chris Watts, the Scott Peterson, they don't act right.

[A]

They don't act right.

[B]

They don't, they don't act right. And the dad, when he carried JonBenet's body, which I found and invited all the friends over and invited the friends over and then it carries JonBenet's body out like this. Now if you find your dead child, I would cradle. I don't give a fuck what evidence this is. This is not the way you carry the child you just found murdered on the floor. I would be to my body looking for life and holding it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I don't even hold my dog, my cat like that.

[C]

Right. And you put yourself in the shoes. And yes, there have been situations where people have been accused and they didn't do it because we always think, oh, it's the closest to. But in the Delphi case, the grandfather, Mike, I say grandfather is like in the 60s. He's like, check me out, test me, you know, I know they go to family first.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But with JonBenet, I think the fascination was. And I remember same thing as you mentioned, Tom, with, with the Menendez brothers. Even I knew them. One of them, Lyle, went to high school with my sister. Princeton Day school. I, I went to East Brunswick Tennis Club with them. And we knew the tennis were American. It's funny because my dad remembers this. They stopped by, it was him and Lyle, the, the older one. And we weren't home. I was 14, I probably should have been hanging out with a 19 year old tennis guy. Right. But so they stopped by, we weren't there. And Merrick used to say to me, you know, Susan, you gotta meet this Lyle, he's crazy. He'd pull up to Newark Airport in a Porsche and just leave it. And that's where he parked. Oh my God, he'd pay for the towing. So when it came out on People magazine and going to high school in Princeton, Chuck's was right near us. We ate there all the time. The restaurant they bought, just like you said, you don't think about it you're, thank God. Murder wasn't my business at 17. I'm like, oh, really? They killed for money and then you move on. But they had. Now that I think about it, they had access to all the money anyway. You don't kill your parents for an extra couple million.

[A]

No.

[C]

Was the shopping spree. I asked Ann Burgess, she testified in the first trial, and she said they had access. That was like a way of saying, you're gone, you know? And I. And, oh, I also interviewed one of the jurors, Hazel Thornton, from the first trial. She said to me, Susan, I'm like, tell me what it's like when you go back and they're talking a divide and remember 90s.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Men against women. Men were like, no way would a father abuse their kids sexually. No. It just doesn't happen. Boys. And are they gay?

[A]

That's what the membership.

[C]

Yes. And the women are like, not that. Say, let them walk there. It's a horrific crime. You saw. Yeah, but they were saying manslaughter. They'd be out by now. So that's the argument Hazel has said to me. I've been on with her, and she's like, susan, I'm not saying they should have walked. No one's saying that. But 35 years is enough. And. And considering the horrific abuse. And the DA, Gil Garcetti at the time just lost O.J. so he's like, we can't. A lot of this is political. We can't lose this. No abuse is allowed. In the second trial, one of the.

[A]

Most telling things was that in the documentary that came out recently about them, that the prosecutor and prosecutors are always like. Like, lock this piece of.

[C]

She's a spitfire.

[A]

She's a real spitfire. And she goes. The day. That's the woman right there.

[C]

Where is she? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

She goes, the day that that guy died, the father, she goes, the world became a better place. So for the prosecutor to say that, you know, she was like, this guy, she goes, I couldn't find one character witness for the father. Not one.

[C]

Not even one.

[A]

He paid none.

[C]

Think about how much money he had. No one.

[A]

He must have been just a real horrible guy.

[C]

Well, the. The. They have 20 family members even on his side who say, let these guys out. Like, that's why I believe. But when I was watching that, I remember being young and watching that being like, oh, I don't know about the sweaters. Like that. And. And I don't think it's a society. We could wrap our brains around that. That would happen.

[B]

No, because I remember growing up and thinking, like, all those two douchebags killed her.

[C]

Me too.

[B]

Ferrets. You know, because you don't think about that context, for sure, but you shouldn't kill your mommy and daddy. I mean, there's a lot of people are abused, but geez Louise.

[C]

No, absolutely.

[B]

They paid their debt to society.

[C]

I see what you're saying. 100. Because my mom says that. Why do you have to talk about the Menendez all the time? And she goes, and I. And they shot their parents. And I said, I know, mom, but I said, I don't want to get into details, but if you watch the documentary about Menudo, and nothing against that industry back then, but now that we know what we know, what did he have access to? And how evil was it? But I. I think, obviously, when they went to reload and shoot the mom.

[A]

There'S a lot of hatred in there.

[C]

Rage, rage, rage. And. But I. I do think that they paid their debt to society. I truly believe that. And all of their family members, if they were even, you know, the father's family members. That's interesting that nobody likes the guy.

[A]

Not one. She goes.

[C]

Like.

[A]

She goes. That's the reason. She goes. We couldn't even have a character witness brought to the trial because we couldn't find one.

[C]

I think people think money equals problem solved. And therefore, why would anyone with money do that? It hides a lot of things, I think. And I even think with the Ramses, like, people are like, oh, no, that wouldn't happen. Look at the facade. Like, look at the way they look in their house. And the. You know, I think that. And I do that. I fall into that of like, well, they don't look like they should look. They don't look like Manson. What could possibly be wrong? But I think secrets are held tight inside of houses, and you never know. And that's part of the crime obsession you're watching. You're like, 20. Why would anyone.

[A]

It's all the questions you have unanswered questions, of course.

[C]

And I don't know if we ever hear why and go, that makes sense.

[A]

But that's like the. You know, this is like the. It's The. The reason why Hitchcock became a phenomena. It's like, you go, this thing happened, and then you want to piece it. Everyone wants to piece things together. You want an explanation. You want the. The answer at the end.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And every time a crime occurs, it's a new question, right? And you go, like, what?

[C]

Like, it's just this What I found. So the. The trial of Richard Allen in Delphi. There are. It's a business. And so that I saw abc, NBC, they're swarming and like, who. Who's getting exclusives? And do you know the family? And can you get the. And it's. It's.

[A]

And you guys all end up competing, too, because Netflix puts out the doc. And then all of a sudden, there's a Dateline special, and then there's a cnn. Like, everybody has to do their story on it.

[C]

I think you guys. Who paved the way. It's true. Last night, I didn't realize how long you guys have been doing this, but you really did pave the way of different media. And what I love about you guys is people kind of talk about their feelings and talk about who they are. And at CNN, it's like teleprompter and anchor here. And it's funny. Mr. Ball and I met with him about his charity, and I said, can I even say this? Fuck. And he goes, I love that he said, fuck. He goes, you have anchor hair, but we love you. So it made me laugh. I'm like, that's because of you guys at cnn, I'd be, like, pulled up. But my point is, I think that you allow conversations to happen, and that's why I really love you guys, because it's authentic. And at cnn, I remember producers in my ears, like, Susan, I said, you're kind of funny. We like the commercial break, Susan. Oh, I'm like. I'm like. But I can't do the commercial break, Susan. I'd like, you know, it's like, 3, 2, 1. Pretend to be coming up tomorrow with the anchor voice. So I digress. But you guys allow for those conversations to happen. And I forget your question, which.

[A]

No, that's. I want to ask you this. The gays are going nuts for Luigi Mangione, and so is the rest of society, but gays.

[C]

Me too, I think.

[A]

Me too.

[C]

If you saw my screenshots. So I was getting my haircut the other day, and I was looking at, like, a haircut I liked, and the guy cuts my hair goes, why is Luigi on your phone? I go, I know. It was a screenshot of him. I'm sorry.

[A]

Stunning, handsome young man. Smart, smart, young.

[C]

Young.

[A]

He's very young. The gays really are going crazy. If you go on Twitter, it's like, gay Twitter. And also, like, there's a lot of debate over whether that penis pic is real.

[B]

Wait, wait, really?

[C]

You guys? I'm behind on the. What what pick.

[B]

We broke the story.

[C]

What?

[B]

The dick pics. We broke it.

[A]

You didn't see.

[C]

Please, mom, it's time to mute this.

[B]

What you got to see is.

[C]

No.

[A]

Well, there was. People were saying whether or not it's a Photoshop, but.

[C]

Oh, where.

[A]

Well, there's a.

[C]

Was it the perp walk? Did you guys see the perp walk with the mayor who's in trouble with Diddy, and he's on the perp walk?

[A]

The perp walk was kind of crazy. There's a lot. Well, there's.

[C]

Oh, that pick.

[A]

No, that's not the one. But that is one.

[C]

That's not the one.

[A]

That's not the one. That's a good one. But that's an example of.

[C]

I think he's closer to my son's age than my age. All right, let's see. I know what the draw is, though.

[A]

What is the draw?

[C]

The Robin Hood type of guy. Like, my husband's father passed away last week. He was 70. At COPD for a while, he got coveted. They put him in the hospital. Nicest guy. We all went to Disney last year. Anyway, his insurance. They sent him home early, and he died. He was. I mean. And my husband was talking to him on the phone watching a Broncos game, and my husband said, do you think he got too excited? He couldn't breathe. I'm like, he should have been in the hospital still. Or they said with rehab to build up the lungs. And he died. He was mentally fine. He was only 70. So I. And he said, it's the insurance thing. I said, that's why that guy.

[A]

It really did, like, open our.

[C]

We're all talking.

[A]

It sparked. And that. Which actually kind of defines how terrorism works. Right? Because, like, a terrorist attack.

[C]

That is a good.

[A]

Isn't about the act of violence. It's usually done to point your eyes towards a cause. Right? And then. And then that's when. That's when they consider it a success is. Is like if you. You do the horrific act of violence and they go, what was. Why did this happen? We did it because of this. And then if you're discussing this and you're changing the way you view something, that's like a successful terrorist attack. This was killing one person. But it's.

[B]

Oh, there it is.

[C]

Yeah, that's not it.

[A]

It's that. That's it. Oh, that's the one that people are.

[B]

You're saying that's a fake.

[A]

People are saying that might be a fake. Susan, please. Look, this is very important. Do you think.

[B]

Yeah, that's his real piece.

[C]

Now we're gonna go to a commercial break.

[B]

Well, the lighting seems.

[C]

Oh, my God, you guys.

[A]

I mean, isn't that crazy?

[B]

Now you can see this at cnn.

[A]

Now you can see why gay Twitter is going nuts.

[C]

A producer be in my ear and go, B roll. We got B roll. Roll. B roll it.

[B]

Here's our B roll.

[A]

Is that authentic?

[C]

Oh, my gosh, you guys, he's too young for me. Even to me. I think he's stuttering.

[A]

Look. Look at it like you're a pediatrician. Do you think.

[C]

I think it's real.

[A]

You think it's real?

[B]

I don't know. Because now looking at that. We did see that picture last time we discussed it. The shadowing, the light, it seems a little blurry at the head.

[A]

It's a hawk.

[C]

Do you see?

[B]

The head's a little blurry. It. It's in the foreground, and therefore it should be clearer image. Correct?

[C]

Look, as in society, we came together over this guy. Wait, did that sound right? Okay, we all got together over this guy. Yeah, but, but, but, but there's clearly something wrong. The mom was called and she said, is this your son? Like, he is a huge family. Like is. If that was my son, Jack. Oh, my God. But if that was like, I'd be. That's my.

[A]

Just move. Don't close it. Just move it off frame for a moment. I don't want her to lose her frame.

[C]

I'm Catholic. I would. You know, she said I could see him doing that. So I'm wondering, was this the beginning of schizophrenia? I'm just making that up.

[A]

Like there's there. First of all, you want to think.

[C]

That he's the normal University of Pennsylvania.

[A]

I think he was this normal. Obviously very bright guy. He's valedictorian, upennial and. And really sharp guy. But he started to retreat from his normal connections. Nobody was in touch with him. It's not. That's not normal behavior, especially for somebody in their early twenties. Started to post and write, you know, things that were not of the norm, like his going on, I think some Reddit rants and maybe on Twitter about his. The, you know, his feelings about healthcare industry. And, and so you have these kind of behaviors that indicate something is changing, right Then the actual act of pulling off this assassination. And now you have, you know, they had the very short manifesto written that he was like, this was my work alone, and, and didn't want to. I didn't include anybody else on this. But now pleading not guilty to it.

[C]

Which is matching the lawyer sweater. Isn't that weird? And the husband of that woman is P. Diddy's lawyer. They're a dream team, though. I mean, if anyone could get them off.

[A]

I don't see how you can get off on this. I really don't.

[C]

Well, there's something called. Is it jury nullification? Which basically means they could go back. Same thing with OJ in my opinion, that.

[A]

Oh, that a jury might let him off.

[C]

Yeah, a jury might be. Hey, you know, maybe Nicole did D. But that there's a bigger issue with Rodney King. It just happened and I understand. And they were. I remember. I think I was interning at a Fox affiliate in Phoenix. I went to Arizona State, so I was. But I remember watching that, and I. Vader, he was a superstar, Right? But I'm wondering, is this guy a superstar?

[A]

Kind of. For a certain portion of the population, he is.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But mentally, did I think OJ Would kill again? No. Would. I don't know. I don't know. The mental stability of Luigi. I don't know.

[A]

Luigi might be like. I mean, there's. It's reasonable to believe that he might have a new agenda or. Or see somebody else that is reasonable to go after, you know, not that I think he's a career killer.

[C]

We know so much more than we know for sure, you know, because what a heartbreak for them. This kid. I watched this high school speech. Valedictorian. I still don't know how to spell it, much less be it for him to do that. It's like, what happens?

[B]

Like.

[C]

But there is schizophrenia with boys. And I think girls. I think more boys at that particular time can. That's when he could show signs.

[A]

The fact that he had this. This surgery that. Oh, yeah, that, you know, to have spinal surgery.

[C]

But did he. Someone I saw on a show was saying, how do we know that's his X ray?

[A]

Well, yeah, but I think he's.

[C]

He did, though, right? He was in there.

[A]

He's been. You can find him talking about him going through this.

[C]

I wonder. Pain shifted.

[A]

Oh, I think that that pain can shift something in you, for sure. And pills and. And whatever else he was taking can mess with your mind and. And you can kind of fall into schizophrenia at an early age because of that. But, you know, he went. He was in real pain, I think, with his. With his back problem.

[C]

I remember after September 11th, I think I was in Palm Springs at the time, everyone coming together. And of course, I feel like. And not to compare this to that, but in terms of how like doesn't matter what party. Everyone agrees that our health care system is a disaster. Is a disaster.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Is a disaster. Whoever you ask. And maybe like if you can afford it, shouldn't be that you could afford it. And I was thinking like. So I was thinking this about my. I should have stepped in. We should have gotten him a private nurse and why can't we stay? I didn't know how bad he was. It was sudden though. I didn't know that they sent him home and we didn't know. But it shouldn't even be that if you pay. He's paying health insurance.

[A]

It doesn't. It's. People get so egregious. Yeah.

[C]

And so I think it's a connection coverage.

[A]

And you'll.

[C]

That he's the symbolic.

[A]

Yes. He's the symbol of it.

[C]

Face of it. And he happens to be good looking.

[B]

I know. Thank God we chose a handsome fella.

[A]

Well, it would be. I've thought about this, that if he were not a good looking guy, there would still be people who'd be like, yeah, I get why you did this. And like supporting the fact that like.

[C]

I think Chris Rock said that he's like, come on.

[A]

But he's like this changed.

[C]

If this guy looked like someone else, we'd be over it. He's good looking.

[A]

Right.

[C]

And smart and came from that like succession family.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I'm dying a deep dive there. Like what?

[A]

Or it's interesting too that the grandmother. What the grandmother had a 30 million dollar fortune that she left to her children and grandchildren. Right. Of which he is one. And in the will it denotes like if anybody's convicted of a felony. Oh that you don't get a piece of this. But I'm like, this is such an interesting thing to think you have to put in there. You know, I mean like I just.

[B]

But who does it.

[A]

Yeah. Like who goes with no felonies though.

[C]

That sounds like succession.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Like that there were. She predicted that something like that would happen. I remember my Aunt Jeannie who didn't die with much. You'd go, I love my Aunt Jean and Uncle Peter. You'd go in their house and it felt like at a madman. And they. I think they grew up in the depression, so they had Campbell's soup. But they. He. My dad, who's an attorney was the executor and he said uncle Peter had $200,000. Like stuff was hidden mattresses. But they left it to like my mom and certain people. But not the cousin that was divorced. That was the the end for that.

[B]

That was their line.

[C]

Yeah, like divorce, but felonies apparently with this family. But I wonder if it does go to trial. He's charged federally. But it's funny, I had questions about terrorism and you answered it.

[A]

It's like, because they. And it was a big deal because when he was originally arrested, they were saying that they were going to charge him with second degree murder because in New York is a more likely conviction and the sentencing guidelines for that, they felt like they could for sure do that. And. And then there was the shift to make it first degree terrorism, which is a much. But there's a much higher burden of proof for that. So there's a lower threshold to convict on second degree. But I think with the fact that that. Well, the video, obviously they confiscated the backpack. The, you know, they had the gun there.

[C]

That's interesting. With Casey Anthony, there was a criticism of overcharge so she walked. That that could be interesting.

[A]

Could be the. Yeah.

[C]

I heard this morning that P. Diddy is jealous of. Of how much attention he's getting cuz they're in the same prison and they have husband and wife lawyers. The wife is his lawyer, the husband's P. Diddy. So P. Is furious.

[A]

He's like, why is everybody talking about Luigi, man?

[B]

That is so ridiculous.

[C]

But it's furious. Interesting about murder and what we think. And I, I looking at, I remember seeing that video and thinking, who has a silencer? This was a hit. And then the bike. But then is it true that like a female flirting brought him down? Like.

[A]

Yeah, I mean that's. Well, that's how that photo got circulated. Yeah, the photo was circulated because like if it's not for this photo, we don't have a face. So if you don't have a face, how would people know who to look for? We didn't have any.

[C]

You're a savvy and you planned it. Like you don't flirt with.

[B]

No, he's out of his court.

[C]

You're right.

[B]

You know what's interesting though is that I feel more afraid of a P. Diddy than I do.

[C]

So do I. I was just gonna say that. Yeah, we have different lines. Like with btk who was absolutely nuts and would kill again. And he said that out loud in court. Would certain people killing it. Like that's. It's almost like the Menendez. Like when is a murder we. And I guess that's why obviously they have the legal system in parole. It's like, would they do it again? How have they acted in prison? And I guess that matters to the new.

[A]

Did he was in a.

[B]

But did he torturing people and it's torturing people.

[C]

Did he. I think he tried to kill Jamie Foxx or somebody. I. I don't know. The more I go down it. I don't know what to believe with him, but it's like, again, I ask why you have everything? What are you doing?

[A]

Well, I mean, that was.

[B]

That's the biggest.

[A]

He was just like unchecked resources and power that just kept growing and growing. And then that. That for him, it feels like it was just like to get that dopamine drip, you just had to keep raising the bar until it got into this really sick, dark world. I don't. I mean, who knows what would have been next for him. And if you follow this, the story.

[C]

It'S almost what happens to you, though. I feel like. I'm not saying that everyone's abused who commits murder, but kind of I think so it's like, what happened to you?

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

But there are people that are abused that never do this. I'm not saying that that excuses it.

[A]

But usually when it's like, like serial killers, people that have a patterns of repeated violence, you almost always, always find neglect and abuse almost 100%.

[C]

I asked Gabby Petito's dad that he's wonderful, Joe Petito. I said to him, I went to his house in Florida. He's from Long island, though. Him and his wife and I, they were setting up lights and it took forever. And I said, I got to know him. Wait, where? Oh. Oh, my gosh, this is embarrassing. So I was doing a Gabby Petito special at cnn and I was doing this and I was exhausted and I'm walking to the parking lot and they're like, keep trying to call Joe. Here's his number. I'm like, hello? He answered, Susan. I said, yeah, it's Susan Hendricks. How you doing? He goes, good. And I start hysterically crying. I'm over tired. I'm like, I'm so sorry. And he's like, don't worry about it. It's gonna be all right. I'm like, this guy's making me feel. I'm mortified. It's a father. And I just said, I'm so sorry. I just. Because the video came out of her, that body cam video of her. And I think that was my peak of like, okay, I need a break here. I'm crying to this dad, but so I got to know him and I said, what do you think happened happened? This is off the count. And he goes, I'm going to show you something on my phone. And it's not out yet. I'm going to show you something. I said, all right. He goes, gabby, text me this that day. And it's her with a huge black eye. And I'm like, oh, my. And he. I said, do you think it's his father? Like, is that. I was trying to. And I had gotten to know him. And he goes, the mom. The mom. And I said, what? And he goes, did you see the note that came out? It said burn after reading. Like it was. So body cam footage came out where he was seen smacking across the face. I think she was. So an assessment had been done. That was in Utah. And I interviewed the assessor of this, who, who was the police chief who said, based on what he saw and investigated, she was the victim of long term abuse.

[A]

The girl was.

[C]

Yeah. And I think watching that, I think.

[A]

Long term meaning from home.

[C]

From him? No.

[A]

Oh, from him.

[C]

Him.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

But long term meaning at that age, it could be a couple years. And I saw a little bit of myself in, like, who you dated at that age?

[B]

Like, oh, yeah.

[C]

And so when I saw that in the newsroom, it was very different than my friend Sammy, who is 25, a pretty. He's like, she seems a little off too. I'm like, oh, God. Only certain people see what I see.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Because he had kind of conned the cops who were there and said, is everything all right? And he's like, you saw him suck them in. It was something that I'll never forget seeing. And the father said, I can't watch that. That's not really Gabby. I'll watch part of it. He said, but it gets very depressing. And he said, what keeps their family going? So Gabby's mom and dad were divorced when she was three. They're good friends with the now step parents. They're all good friends. They were at Crimecon one year and they're funny and nice. They went golfing with my husband. They're nice. They came together. Now they're trying to help others, like people who don't get as much attention as Gabby because I was asked that at Crimecon, like, why? Because she's blonde and pretty and is that why? And I, I said, I'm not sure. I don't make the decisions at cnn. I don't know if it. If that comes first, then the attention comes, or is it. We put it out first, but they're right. Everyone should get equal attention. And now Joe and his family fight for that. But he said watching that her mom said watching that her mom's Nicole, that she knew. She knew right after that. Seeing that is. Is horrible.

[B]

Can I ask you this? When you've met people that have committed crime, violent crimes, do you feel an energy from them? For instance, in that JonBenet documentary on Netflix, the first policewoman that shows up, she says I locked eyes with the father, with John and I knew and I knew like did you. Do you feel a cold breeze?

[C]

I will say that that's a great question. I felt it in Delphi when I first walked into the hearing. This was at the end of July and when he turned around and I know it's easy to say because he's an orange, you know, but that look was like oh my God. And it's not about me. So I'm with the family. They said to me Susan, come over here. I go, it's inappropriate. I always said now I hear my son say that's inappropriate. And so I said they're like no, come here. So I sat with them and he just glared. And that's. I never got a feeling like that. But it's not often that I meet the guy like the alleged perpetrator, whoever I usually meet the families, the Joe Petito's not the Brian, the guy who's accused. But with John Ramsey I didn't feel it but. And I wonder if I would have with btk. It's interesting because I felt it with, with him but he was in and he was looking at me and he was also at the ceiling doing this. And BTK was no, this is Richard Allen. Which. And then when the trial came along I think he was faking it. Then I saw a interview that he did and he acted it normal cuz I was watching him and I go how did the wife not know he was nuts? Cuz the wife sitting over there. Then I see an interview interrogation that he did and I'm like cuz he's faking it. He is nor like normal there. I think the, the people who are able to do that. If I met him and he wasn't arrested, I don't think I'd be able to.

[A]

I think you would.

[C]

I think they're good at it.

[B]

Well what about these eyes? Look into these eyes. What do you see?

[A]

What do you feel? Feel the coldness.

[C]

He's too much of an intellect. The coldness, the coldness.

[B]

The dead. The dead first.

[A]

My first gig was I worked for America's Most Wanted.

[C]

What I Didn't know that.

[A]

Yeah. I was an associate producer on Final justice, and then I switched over to America's Most Wanted.

[C]

You know, I. I can't wait to call my husband because he's like, I'm a huge fan. He's like, it's definitely gonna be the wife who knows all about the murders. He's not even gonna know what you're talking about.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't like it. I don't like it. Susan. Let me tell you. I. I don't like it. And I. I get more terrified because this could be your neighbor. This could be the school teacher.

[C]

This could be anything. They're called news moms. I'm side Go.

[A]

I gotta ask you this, though, because you said you interviewed BTK's daughter.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

That story is obviously one of the most famous horrific stories, but when you realize that this guy had the family and the, like. What was she like? What did you gather from.

[C]

She was really amazing. And she very. You could tell that her nervous system is shot. And she said that she. Her dad would say to her, be careful. Be careful that btk, you know, lock the doors or do. No. Yes. And so she. I felt her get her mojo back, so to speak. Like, at CrimeCon. I think it's a good thing. It gave her strength. She was a. And, oh, my gosh. So there's a Q and A session at the end. And she wrote about it. Two kids with her husband, but it caused a divorce. And of course, she says she has PTSD and all of that, but when the FBI first showed up at her door, they said she thought her grandmother died. They mentioned some, somewhat. She. It didn't click until they said, your father's btk. And she said, my life changed from then on out. I had no idea. None. Zero. And the mom and of course the brother, everybody was shocked. I think she said, I have to own it. I can't hide from this. But I hope that people know that I. Of course they know you had nothing to do with it. So someone stood up at the end, and this gave her strength. I never thought I would hear this. And I said, okay, you're next. And she said, hi, Carrie. I wasn't gonna come, but I heard you were here. My dad's also a serial killer. No. And I went. Only a crime con, a place called crime, that you would find that.

[A]

Somebody else saying that.

[B]

Yeah, that's.

[C]

And so they walk up to her and say, hey, you know. And I asked Kevin that. Who puts it on with his brother. How do you Keep out the crazies, because you would think they'd be there.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And he said, well, it's two things. If anyone does anything bad, they're out, escorted out. But I price them out. It's expensive. These people have, like, backstage for a thousand dollars, the meet and greet. And it's weird he was able to do this upstairs. And it's different cities each time. It's like they have sweatshirts that say, I'm basically a detective. And like a payphone. I'm like, I remember people. And like cutouts of the Dateline people. But then on a different floor. It's with Delphi, like, flyers. We want you to help out. But everybody's kind. They really are. They. They're spending a lot of money to be there. They want to be there. And a good friend of mine, he used to play for the Falcons, Coy Wire. I worked with him for years at cnn. And he's like, oh, my gosh, my wife is so jealous. She was at the first crime con in New Orleans. I'm like, really? Why? But I. But because people love 2020 Dateline. They. And I think I don't have the exact answer, but I think it's because people feel more in control. Maybe if, like, it. It comes down to, like, a mystery. Who would do it and why. It's not so much a crime like a drive by, shooting the women. It's more like, who did it?

[A]

Who did it. Yeah.

[C]

And why. And we never know why. We're always like, why?

[B]

Well, and I was watching Gladiator 2 this morning as I was walking in my treadmill. And I do think, you know, that is a primitive yearning, is that humans need violence. We need that sublimation. We need. We need to see bloody awful stuff because it is a part of the human experience, unfortunately. I don't know, maybe it's a cruel thing.

[C]

Maybe I was able to watch Friday the 13th at age like. Well, I tell my mom that. She's like, I didn't know you were watching that. I'm like, we were screaming the VCR tape of, like, Jason slaughtering people. If my son's like, now I'm. I'm. I overcompensate. But clearly he knows what's going on because I did order books in the first person to see. Oh, my gosh, now I have to write this. How am I going to write it? And tracking this was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. So I ordered these books. And he goes, mom, murder. And I said, oh, no, that's an actress. He goes, oh, sh. I'm like, my daughter is older. She had. She would never do that. He's definitely in tune to different things. He's like murder.

[A]

You want to see some wild. I don't know if you've seen this. This is Brian.

[C]

I'm like, I'm in.

[A]

Yeah, of course. This is Brian Cohee Jr. You saw this?

[C]

No, I thought you were gonna say co Burger.

[A]

Parents have some concerns of some stuff they may have found in your room. Yeah, I believe so. And what, what would it be? A human head and hands. Like for real human head and hands? Yes. From that fellow who went missing recently.

[C]

Which fellow was that?

[A]

Warren Brown. Warren Brown. When did he go missing? The night of the 27th. The night of the 27th.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And how did you end up with him? I murdered him. With what? A knife.

[C]

It's like a Dahmer.

[A]

Why would you have done that? I've always wondered what murder felt like. How do you know this guy? They told me that that was what was in the wallet. What do you mean that was. Come across this. How'd you come across the gentleman? I was driving.

[C]

Huh.

[A]

And I saw a strange shape near the railway.

[C]

So I.

[A]

So I parked my car and investigated it. And I found it to be a man sleeping.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Where's the knife at? It is in my sunken car. Well, it's in my car. I had that previously sunk. Well, when I killed him, he tried disposing of his body back so much.

[B]

I just. I don't know how you guys are.

[A]

In the rest of his body at.

[B]

Mortified right now, huh?

[A]

Where's the rest of the body at?

[C]

What parts?

[B]

The rest of it, homie.

[C]

Down the river.

[B]

Down the river.

[C]

I'm gonna have you walk over here.

[A]

You're gonna sit in the back of my.

[C]

My partner's control patrol car for a minute, okay?

[A]

Just sit back there and hang out for me.

[C]

Okay?

[B]

Why do you just keep the head and hands, I wonder? And the rest is down the road.

[A]

I'm good, sir.

[C]

How are you?

[A]

You said your name is Brian?

[B]

Yeah, I'm not feeling too well. No?

[A]

No. These past few days I've been very, very anxious.

[C]

Yeah, understandable.

[B]

So what we're going to have you do here is I'm just going to have you sit in the back here, okay?

[D]

I'm going to turn on the air.

[B]

For you in a second.

[A]

That's nice.

[B]

That way you're not too hot, are you hot?

[C]

Everyone knew about Jeffrey Dahmer and then the Whole new generation learned about it, that documentary, which is strange.

[B]

So you prefer the cold. Okay, fantastic.

[C]

I didn't hear about that.

[A]

So hop in here.

[B]

I know you're tall, so it's a little bit of a tight squeeze, but.

[C]

Like I said, I'll get that. We go back to British shows.

[B]

Oh, we got more. Right.

[C]

My mom's like, why don't you watch Hallmark Christmas? I'm like, okay.

[A]

And she called me and said, you don't know. Oh, they have to blur it out.

[C]

Oh wait, was it one guy?

[A]

Yep. Yeah, so. But you see how he was like.

[C]

Is this a serial killer?

[A]

No. What state this.

[B]

I gotta go throw up. Excuse me, I have to. Colorado.

[A]

Colorado. Grand Junction.

[B]

Colorado Grand Junction. Okay, I'm gonna pitch.

[A]

You're going to leave right now.

[B]

I have to pee so bad. I'm so anxious and nervous. I'm sorry, I have to pitch.

[A]

She's such a bummer about this.

[C]

Wait, how old is that kid?

[A]

He was 19 when he murdered a 69 year old guy.

[C]

I know it is weird. I think when Nancy Grace came into HLNC and it was. And the Casey Anthony, it's all about ratings and numbers. So that's when it kind of shifted. That's when I kind of got into the all crime genre. So it is my job. It's weird.

[A]

I think there's also something about just how many. You know when you say like it'd be great if everybody could get the same coverage.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Just how many horrific crimes occur particularly in this country like this violent crimes.

[C]

And what I realized with Gabby Petito's dad told me that in the national parks they're dead bodies that are there and no one talks about it. Cuz I did say to him, look, I'm going to be a crime con with you. And that's going to be a question I even asked my bosses at cnn. I'm like, how do you think I should answer? Because they're like, well don't bring that up. I'm like, I'm not gonna bring it up. They're gonna bring it up.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Why do we cover blonde pretty girls or like the Casey Anthony's? I hope this is an airing because I'm scared, but. Okay. I don't know what the answer is. I. I think it's about what catches on. I know it sounds cow.

[A]

Part of, part of it though is the fact that when you Show a blonde 20 year old who's gone missing or whatever, people's attention also just sparks for that. It's not Just the fact that you showed her. It's that people go, oh, what?

[C]

And to me, I guess if I were to answer, it'd be like, oh, we saw Gabby because she has, you know, videos now and kids have young had things with Scott Peterson's wife. It was just that one still shot. Do you remember with Lacy Peterson? Now kids have videos and you're able to kind of get a peek into their lives.

[A]

Did you watch that doc?

[C]

Which one? The Scott Peterson.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I forgot. I forgot so much about that case with his ponytail.

[C]

But I'm like, someone said to me at cnn, and you kind of joke. You get used to what you do. Not joke about anyone dying, but you get used to what you do. And if you don't laugh, you lose your mind.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But someone's like, how about that aging on Scott Peterson? What's going on with the skin care? Meaning he looks good. I'm like, you know, you kind of have.

[B]

Sleeps like a baby.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

The sister being like, still that sister in law.

[C]

I'm sorry. She's in love with us.

[A]

She's in love with us. But the crazy. One of the things that stands out so much is his behavior in the initial interrogation. Like, the Christmas guys who do this.

[C]

Who don't cry, they have this recipe book. So, like, we're looking for Liz, eh? Like, they have like this raspy, like, I don't know where she is. Trying to sound sad.

[B]

Practice it, Tom.

[C]

It's a raspy, like, fried voice with no tears.

[A]

Christina's gone. And I hope.

[B]

Is that good?

[C]

And you whisper, yeah, perfect.

[A]

I hope we find her.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And that's it. No tears.

[A]

He was like. He's like, yeah. I got back, went fishing and then I saw the dog that was out. And then I don't know.

[C]

Yeah, I hope fishing on Christmas day and Nancy GR I fishing on Christmas Day.

[B]

I love Nancy Grace. Didn't he, like, order a pizza before he called and called her in missing or something?

[A]

He was like, so chill.

[C]

Oh, he got no. Remember the cops arrested him. He had an orange beard. He was cr. He took classes at Arizona State. My alum. But he. And they're like, are you hungry? And they went through a drive there. When he got like, in and out. They're like, are you hungry?

[B]

He was like, yeah, I'm starving. Yeah.

[C]

I just killed my wife with no qualms.

[A]

But I mean, he, like, he did the worst perform like, of a. As far as putting on a performance. He was just like, yeah. And the dog was out. So I knew something was wrong.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, yeah, she's just. I don't know where she is, like. But I hope you find her. It's like, this is your pregnant wife on Christmas Eve, and you're like, I hope you find her. I don't tell you, man.

[C]

How about his mistress? I really liked her.

[A]

She was really nice forward.

[C]

And like, yeah. He's like, hey, I'm in Paris. I see the Niffle Tower. There's the Eiffel Tower.

[A]

And she knows at that point that what, you know what's going on? So she has to be like, oh, cool.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Do you see now? This is my job. So I would listen to you guys and was on the algorithm and was like. All I wanted to do was laugh, like, because it's like, so. And I am. I will say I'm a little nuts. Like, I'm so aware of my surroundings that I was at the gym and I hit this. The elevator, and I noticed, like, a guy was supposed to get off on the button he clicked, but he didn't. He got off on where I did. And I'm like. And I take a right and I'm like, I'm nuts.

[A]

I remember one time.

[B]

I'll forget this. Stranger danger, babies.

[A]

I was a exchange. I was a foreign exchange student. I was in Madrid. And the bus that would go to my stop, I was. It was taking it in the evening. And I got up from the back of the bus and a woman in the front of the bus was getting off, and she turned around and saw me. And when I got off with her, she ran. Like. She ran and, like. And I like, like, screaming.

[B]

Ran.

[A]

So I chased her. What I did, because I was like, this is so fun to see somebody this scared. You know, it was fun.

[B]

Let the record show that he was joking. Joking about if I go missing guys.

[C]

My favorite clip of you guys is Bill Burr being like, no, you're. You're.

[A]

Oh, who's the bigger psycho?

[B]

Oh, yeah. Total.

[A]

Please.

[C]

I didn't know you worked for America's Most Wanted.

[B]

Yeah, he loves it.

[C]

Remember the milk cartons? Was anyone ever found from that?

[B]

Jesus Christ, I'd hope so.

[A]

I think so. But that showed a lot of people.

[C]

Oh, oh, yeah.

[A]

Yeah. America's Most Wanted caught so many people.

[C]

Oh, with what's his name?

[A]

John Walsh.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

That when Fox went to cancel the show after it had been on for years, there was a backlash that was so big that they brought it back.

[B]

Good.

[A]

Because they were showing. They're like, look, it shows already caught, like, 800 people.

[B]

Yeah, it was public service.

[A]

It was like public service always.

[C]

I don't know if you guys are aware of this subculture. So outside of trials, I covered this, but with like Karen Reed, there's these people on YouTube who want clicks. And there was Turtle boy, who's like the conspiracy theorist. And like, she's innocent. She was accused of killing her Boston cop husband. But, you know, so there are people who now go to these trials. So the Brian Coburger trial is coming up at the end of August.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And that.

[A]

The Idaho.

[C]

Yeah. And I got to know Stacy, who's this psycho?

[B]

Sorry.

[C]

Ethan Chapin is, you know, the college kids who were murdered in the. This goofball off campus home that the three girls and the boy. I got to know Ethan Chapin's mom. And I said to her, would you do be on a panel with me? I'm interviewing, like, Yardley Love, who was killed in a lacrosse. She played lacrosse at University of Virginia. And so I was doing a panel on kind of how do you recover? What is the strength? And there's a lot of gag orders. And I said, we won't talk about the specifics. And she said, I will. And she's so nice. She called me like two weeks before. She goes, you didn't tell me the name of it. I go, I know. I'm sorry. Crime con. I left that to the end.

[A]

Oh, yeah, Yeah.

[C]

I was like, I know. And she goes, I'll do it. And then I really love her. She's like, I don't think I'm going to the trial. Nothing can bring my son back. She's like, he was at his girlfriend's house. And the one thing I will say, I know this sounds very depressing. And we keep bringing up different murders, the families that I've met and the strength that I got from them. And that's the focus of my book. It's unprecedented. If you think you're going through something, it really is. And you guys do that. Like, I feel like your genre and what you guys do when you guys were one of the first. It's like men don't talk about things back then that you guys talk about. Like, oh, the obon. Maybe I'm depressed or maybe.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Yes.

[C]

For my husband who watch it, that wasn't talked about. They watched like football games, doing something wonderful. And I work here. I kind of thought through it. You are. But I thought through it like, that's what that does. It's like they can get through it. Then I Can get through it. I think hurt people are drawn.

[A]

I think you're right to crime con.

[C]

They really are.

[B]

It's good for them to meet other people too that have been victims even.

[C]

Not maybe of a murder, but just. Yeah, something.

[B]

Something viol.

[A]

There's always something in the eyes though.

[B]

Oh, I know this guy's out of.

[A]

His eyes are really.

[B]

Wouldn't talk to that kid. Wouldn't talk to him.

[C]

And I remember talking to Paul Holes about it. He said, remember he saw snow or there's something snow like that is. I don't know if it's a sign of schizophrenia obviously, but something was up clearly. And remember the dad driving him across the country. But in that picture, like if he's a teacher at your college, you're not thinking mass murderer.

[A]

He wants Jake Gyllenhaal to play him. Is that what he said?

[C]

If this tells you anything, don't trust anyone. I mean, you could turn paranoid. So that's why I have to balance it out. And my mom's like, watch Hallmark Christmas movies with the same plot. So it is a little. But it is again the strength from the families. It is a little. Oh yeah, Jake Gyllenhaal. I could see that.

[B]

I think also I have an aversion to this type of stuff because I grew up in Los Angeles during the night stalker as a child.

[C]

Yeah, so did my good. My college roommate.

[B]

And it was so scary. We were all terrified this guy was going to climb in our windows at night. And it's very. There he is. Childhood fear.

[C]

I think that may have saved my life and here's why. But as ditzy as ditzy could be, my parents said, you can go to any college you want. My dad and my mom, like, I can't believe you said that. They took me to asu I live at in New Jersey. My mom cried the whole flight home. My sister went to Boston College. You should go to Boston with your sister. Like, mom, I'm old now. I look at pictures. I'm like, so my friend Terry had a Jeep and she ran out of gas all the time. Two ditzes. And the guy pulls up like muffler dragging and said, hop in, girls. And has a badge. And I go, let's go. She goes, no. And I'm shocked she said no. Because I was like, why? Like, it's just like there's growing up. There was a night stalker worried about you never know who's who. And I'm like, let's get in. He has a badge. No thank God.

[A]

Well, I lived in Milwaukee during Dahmer and I got me just a taste for chocolate. I was really like, this is what I want to be doing. It was exciting.

[C]

I think you got the Dahmer glasses.

[A]

Oh, man.

[C]

But the night Stop. I mean, we talk about people not looking like, he looks like a killer.

[B]

That is the cool thing.

[C]

How did they finally get. I don't even know.

[B]

The best. So the best part of that story is that it was the citizens of Los Angeles. They beat this guy in the streets. They found him.

[C]

Somebody looking in a window.

[B]

No, he was all over the news in la. You couldn't not hear about the Night Stalker. And his picture was up everywhere. And somebody, like, saw coming out of a Greyhound bus station, I think in the neighborhood there.

[A]

He's trying to steal a car, and.

[B]

They fucking spotted him and these group of dudes beat him down.

[C]

Think about before social media. Everyone's like, I'm sick of this guy.

[B]

And LA was. And it was the greatest thing ever. He got street.

[C]

Where did you grow up in la?

[B]

The San Fernando Valley.

[C]

So it's on one night. Did you. Last night I turned on Anderson Cooper. I'm like, it's burning.

[B]

Devastating. It is devastating. Yeah, it's. This is the worst one ever. I don't think I've.

[C]

And Gettysburg. I lived in LA a couple years after college. Manhattan beach first. And then my dad calls me, like, do you have a job? No, I'm just moving my friends in Manhattan beach. Like. But I loved living there. And I. I turned it on. I'm like, what?

[A]

It's so sad.

[B]

It's very sad. Not cool. But.

[A]

Yeah, there's. There's a great doc about that too.

[C]

The Night Stalker.

[A]

That's great.

[B]

Got it.

[C]

Oh, maybe Jake Gyllenhaal played him. Right. I think I made it. Or I'm thinking of. What was it where they would leave signs that the Zodiac. Yeah.

[A]

Did they ever catch that Zodiac was. Well, the theory is that the. The one guy who they presumed was him and. And had that it was him. Because there's no other. There's no. There's nobody else that fits the profile like he did. He died.

[C]

That guy who's a Long island one who used to shoot people in their cars like they were kissing.

[A]

Oh, I remember this.

[B]

I know this one.

[A]

Son of Sam you're talking about.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

This is the new one. This is the Long island guy. Yeah.

[C]

A friend of mine. This guy's a CSI guy. That woman that I'm friends with, she said Susan, I was at his house. No, the Nancy Gray show, like, after the fact. I'm sorry. But he's an architect in that house. It stands out. Like, Billy Baldwin went to high school with the guy, like, because he lives in upstate. And Seth, like, I don't know. I mean, do you ever know. Everyone knows kind of someone in high school where you're like, I could see that. So there's the house and.

[B]

Yeah, that's true.

[C]

I guess he had a room in the basement. Like Silence of the Lambs.

[B]

No.

[C]

Yeah, Like a soundproof.

[A]

That's quite a mug he's got on him, though, too. That is a. That's a. That is a face, man.

[C]

And it is sad going back to, like, the Gabby Petitos if these women. Because they didn't have. Some of them didn't have families who were going to be the dad that's standing in front of the microphone. You gotta wait with it for longer.

[A]

He was killing prostitutes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it's like people.

[C]

Disposable people. But this one woman who was on Nancy Grace was a prostitute and met him and said no. Got the vibe and was like, met at a restaurant. He was furious. But, like, the overpowering. And, you know, I. I just miss the online dating. Thank God. But who do you. You never know who's who, right?

[B]

Well, we just. That Stock. Marry, Kill. What was that? Stalker, lover, Dancer.

[A]

Stalker, Kill.

[B]

And immediately when he talks about going on a date with the first girl and there's. She's like. We. We had a party. We went to a bar, and she's like, flipping the word and like. And I'm like, that chick's so crazy.

[A]

Did you see that one?

[C]

No.

[A]

That one is really good, but I.

[B]

Think you gotta see it. I think that one night that one kept me.

[A]

I would put the end of the fire one above.

[C]

That was.

[A]

That one is incredible. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

What's the premise of it?

[A]

Into the fire.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So this woman had given up her. This woman right here had given up her daughter for adoption. And she decides as an older woman now to look up her adult daughter who has. Who she gave her. Well, she finds that the daughter she gave up for adoption had gone missing years prior. And that's the catalyst for this whole thing. And she ends up really being. Like we were discussing earlier. She ends up being the driving force for getting answers to, like, how. Like, what do you mean? My. My daughter just went missing. And it's. I don't want to give it away because it's such a good story. Is it such a good story that I mean, it. It really is. It's unbelievable.

[C]

Christina, did you watch Chilean?

[B]

This one?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

No.

[A]

No, but she was hearing stuff.

[C]

She.

[A]

What happens is she's. She's.

[C]

Do you watch TV in different rooms?

[B]

No, I fall asleep. She falls and I hear murder.

[A]

And she'll just hear. She'll be like. And then as assaulted and put a cigarette out on her eyes. And she's like, thank you. I'm trying to sleep now.

[B]

Or if it's having to do with children, I can't do it.

[C]

I can't do it. I can't. And that when I anchored weekends on se, I would say, okay, this rundown, it's a Saturday. It's literally. I said, no dead kids. Like, this is horrific. And I know that we shouldn't. Like, I'm sorry, but I can say that, like, with kids. I can't.

[A]

I don't want to watch any kids stories.

[C]

I don't.

[B]

Tell me you just did the adoption.

[A]

No, this is different.

[B]

JonBenet is where I drew the line. And I. And I got obsessed with JonBenet and Maddie McConnell. And I was like, what do you guys think happened? I think what. What you said to the extent of some maybe neglect because they were so. People don't know. It was a group of tourists, English tourists, and they were what in. In Portugal. And they decide to not get babysitters. Instead, they let all their children, the 80s sleep alone. Right. And said they have tapas how many feet away around a bush down the hotel. And they figure we can check on these kids every so often. They should be fine. Well, one of the kids disappears, I think. Oh, I think they drugged her because they're doctors. They probably drugged the children to go to sleep. And I think it was a death because here's what gets me is, oh, you think that. I think it was an accidental death. And then they got rid of the body because the. The blood sniffing dogs, remember that? There's the dogs that are like experts.

[C]

That stop corpse sniffing.

[B]

The dog's alarmed on that. I do. I always think it's the parents.

[C]

Do you think Casey did the same thing? Anthony. Anthony, Allegedly people guess that it's like chloroform to go out and party.

[B]

Yeah, hello. Sometimes that's what they do because that's what those parents did. I think they drugged the kid to go to sleep so that they could have fun at the top of this place down the street.

[C]

And it's funny, my mom would watch me during this and my Daughter was that age at the time. I think she's like, I think of Emory too much. And I'll call her about Delphi and I'll say, mom, this is what I saw today in court. She'll start crying and she's like, it's just so sad. And not that I'm not sad, but I'm like, realize how hardened because I have to, like, talk about it on the air. And so I'm almost able to compartmentalize, but who knows? Long term damage, like, you're, you're able to talk about it because it's my job. So.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But it is hard. Horribly sad. And the one day. So we're. We're. We get lottery tickets for pool reporters. So I'm in the front row. And that day that I got the pool, I took myself out of the lottery. After that, I said to Nancy's producer, I'm like, get me out because it's front row. And it was the crime scene photo day.

[A]

Oh.

[C]

And it was zooming in and I went like, oh, no. And I had to. I got in trouble too. You laugh. So I had to take notes. And I knew that it was going out to a pool because there's no cameras and my notes weren't that good. And we're in a lunch break and the Carroll County Comet newspaper lady who was like, susan, I need your notes. I said, they're not done. I'm just writing. I'm googling the blood term. It was DNA day and I'm so stressed. And then I sent it at 4 o'clock. I had to take pictures so everyone could get it. Well, Nancy's producer calls me. I've been friends with him at cnn. He goes, cheer him out. You got fired. I go, what do you mean? He goes, you got let go. You didn't hand your notes in at noon. I'm like, I'm fired for the pool. They're like, yeah. I'm like, good. I'd rather wait in line with the cool people. Anyway, it was just so fun. I'm like, they're like, we won't be needing your services for the notes. But I'm like, I don't want to sit in the front row and be worried about the notes. And that's the fine line. Because I got close to the family. I was like, you know what? Because I did go to the hearing and Mike, the grandfather's like, who you with now? I'm like, myself. I wanted to be there. I didn't want. So it's kind of like. I don't know. I think I'm too in it almost.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

With this case like that, I don't. It's a little nuts.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, for people who want to do a deep dive, because you did get down the hill. The descent in my Descent into the Double Murder in Delphi, which I'm excited to read. I am.

[B]

Maybe you can read out loud to me as I fall asleep.

[A]

I read to the kids.

[C]

Well, it's funny. I asked the families because it. It mattered. I didn't want them to not want me to do this. So I sent him a couple chaps, said, if you don't want me to do it, I won't do it. And Becky said, no, it's okay. And she read it. And this was a very big compliment to me. Tara, Libby's aunt, said, can you send me four for Christmas? Because it's not. At this. We didn't know much, but it's really about them going through beginning to end and their perspective. So it wasn't like, you know, not that I'm on my high horse saying I'm better, because people are really fascinated by the actual killer. You know, we can name them. We rarely can name the victim. So I just wanted it to be a different perspective.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I'm not saying I'm amazing by doing it. It's just what I knew what I could write about.

[B]

And we don't get to hear those stories. I don't think, you know, I've ever heard of a book like that where you hear from their perspective and how absolutely traumatizing that has to be and.

[C]

To be able to keep going on. And that's what it is. It's the connection that at Crimecon, like, if they can get through that, how do they get through that? Then I can get through anything.

[B]

I'm going, so true.

[A]

It's a good point.

[B]

So true.

[C]

That's what I. I gained. I've learned so much from them. And Kelsey, Libby's sister, wrote the Forward. I asked her, and I'm like, if she can get through this. She was only 18 at the time. She dropped them off at the bridge. She blamed herself. Shouldn't what to do. I went to her baby shower. She has a little girl. She's pregnant again. So, yes, I am too close. But I love that. I really like them as people. And I think I felt for the first time I was in the inside looking out. It said the outside looking in and getting the sound bite. And I know it might be nuts, but it's my perspective.

[B]

Tell you what. I think you're nuts. I think you're nuts. But I'm going to read this.

[A]

Susan, thank you so much for coming. Chatting with you. Hopefully you can come back and we can do another dive into crime.

[C]

Would love to.

[A]

And horrible things that people.

[B]

Thank you.

[C]

And Hallmark Christmas trend.

[A]

Yes. All right, that's it. We'll see you guys next week.

[B]

Bye.

[A]

Welcome to Maccabees Medical Monday. Today it's all about this.

[B]

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[A]

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Don't be a tree. A jug of water overnight. You know what you get for a fraction of the price. Energy drink full of electrolyte. Roaring salad is one of the user.

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As a base for your vegetable juice.

[A]

Another surprise. Put a slice on your eyes, take away the glide. You should revitalize. Oh, yes. One thing I have.

[B]

You're very handsome. You're my fresh last meat.

[A]

Whoa. Thanks.

[B]

What's going on?

[A]

Cucumber.

[D]

What's going on?

[A]

I've been having a cucumber. Cucumber?

[B]

Where eat cucumbers?

[A]

Yeah, I eat cucumbers and then it makes me look better.