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- [00:02]
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- [00:23]
Sarah Lynch
I'm Sarah lynch and you are listening to your Next Move audio edition produced by Inc. And Capital One Business. For this season, we gathered a bevy of conversations with entrepreneurs who made last year's Inc. 5000 list. They joined us in our your Next Move Booth at the Inc. 5000 to share lessons learned and anecdotes from building their businesses. In this episode, Inc. Staff reporter Allie Donaldson interviewed Ebony Wilkins. She is the President and CEO of Ilus Management Consulting. They're ranked number 294 on the 2024 Inc. 5000 list. Ilis specializes in financial management and acquisition support for government agencies. Or as Ebony puts it, they manage the government's checkbook. Ebony started the conversation with Ali by telling her about the trying times on.
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Ebony Wilkins
The road to growth. We were really steadfast in hard times. We had a hard time post Covid through Covid, but we remained focused and we put in a lot of new strategies. We made some infrastructure changes, we hired the right people and that helped us scale to the next level.
- [01:33]
Allie Donaldson
And that sounds like a few different inflection points. Can you go deeper into each of those of like the different strategies, hiring the right people?
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Ebony Wilkins
Oh, definitely. So one of the great things that occurred within Covid was the government's influx of cash flow and money and allowing that ability to get a lift or a hand up, if you will. So with those different funding options, we were able to really put in a concrete timekeeping system in place, invest in HR systems, invest in recruiting systems. So it really helped us be able to be more functional and efficient.
- [02:14]
Allie Donaldson
And especially on the recruiting front, I've heard from so many founders, executives over the past few years of how difficult it is to hire, especially a few years ago when it was so tight in the labor market. So talk to me about how you put in those new recruiting strategies, how you found those right people.
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Ebony Wilkins
You know, I'm going to put it on Covid. Let's just blame everything on Covid. Right? That's fair. So during the COVID period, you know, a lot of people were used to teleworking and working remote. So that became difficult when some of our customers, our client, wanted to see more of their people in the office. So we're dealing in this culture where we would say the younger workforce want to work Remote and they want a high salary. So that was very difficult to manage and navigate. But through it all, we stayed consistent. We were able to find those now what we call little pockets of gems of people who wanted to integrate and be around the different people.
- [03:15]
Allie Donaldson
I like that with the little pockets of gems. And did you all find that those people cost a little bit more?
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Ebony Wilkins
Just a tad bit. Right. So we did have to kind of pay, and we really worked to incentivize. One of the things that we are very good at is selling our company, selling how we do employee appreciation and how we are willing to go the extra mile to give you a signing bonus and just to kind of work with you a little bit more. And that was really music to a lot of people's ears. But we had to kind of meet the employees where they were, really learn them and learn what's special to them, what intrigues them in a new opportunity or a new company.
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Allie Donaldson
And how many employees do you have now?
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Ebony Wilkins
We have 30 and we have 15 subcontractors. So really a total of 45 people.
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Allie Donaldson
And I'm guessing, you know, government consulting. Are you all based around dc?
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Ebony Wilkins
We are. We are. How did you know?
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Allie Donaldson
We're in the DMV.
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Ebony Wilkins
So we are in Woodbridge, Virginia, right outside of D.C. oh, very nice.
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Allie Donaldson
I'm from Virginia.
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Ebony Wilkins
Yay.
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Allie Donaldson
So love to see it.
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Ebony Wilkins
All right. All right.
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Allie Donaldson
And so when you think about these past three years of scaling so quickly, what has been the most surprising thing about that?
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Ebony Wilkins
Oh, wow. One of the most surprising things or the most powerful things I would say is when I see an employee who has joined the team or is sending email correspondence and has your company name having a meeting and they're having your company shirt on. That has just played at the strings of my heart. It's just been a magical moment. Different instances that I just would cherish forever.
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Allie Donaldson
And during this period of growth, was there anything you felt you were unprepared for? And then when that happened, how did you react or maybe change course?
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Ebony Wilkins
I felt like I was totally unprepared for when we would take on new customers, really at a bigger scale. Right. So we had a lot of growth with maybe contracts with four people here somewhere around that. But when we got bigger scale contracts, okay, how do we really want to show up? How do we make sure that we're still operating in excellence and the customer can see value in us and continue to want to work with us? So we really did a lot of strategic planning, strategic sessions to make sure that everyone was on the same page that we can clearly articulate as a collective our value and as a founder.
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Allie Donaldson
How do you stay productive during your day?
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Ebony Wilkins
Listen, so I just asked my mom the other day, I said, is there any way possible you can ask God to give me like four more hours in the day, maybe even five? Like I'd be good with it. Time management is the center of my universe. My kids come first. So I am very active in my kids life. So no meetings will start before I get them off to school.
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Allie Donaldson
What time is that?
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Ebony Wilkins
Usually nine. Okay, so no meetings before 9:00am typically no meetings after 5:00pm when they're home. And I may get back online if I have the bandwidth after bedtime. But normally during the day I am really focused on ensuring that my team has what they need between nine and 12, whether that's through meetings, whether that's through emails or whatever correspondence that is appropriate. And then in the afternoon I'm really meeting potential partners, talking to our customers, our clients and just being out and making sure that we remain a thought leader in the community.
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Allie Donaldson
I'm curious how you came to that schedule of going kind of internal in the morning and like external in the afternoon of why you do that.
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Ebony Wilkins
For my team, I need to make sure they're working right. You have internal, set the tone. That's the military in me. Right. You make sure that you have your marching orders so that they can go ahead and be great and I can continue focus on working on the business and not in the business.
- [07:14]
Allie Donaldson
And are you a list maker? Are you a big calendar person? Like do you have any apps or anything technology that you use to help keep you on track throughout the day?
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Ebony Wilkins
I'm still old school, so unfortunately my desk is like plagued with sticky notes and I'm kind of going online with my onenotes starting to make notes. But notebook person. So I still like to the tangible reminders.
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Allie Donaldson
I like those too. And I feel like you can have. Do you have like different colors of like this is gonna be like my red alert sticky note.
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Ebony Wilkins
I do, I do. And then if I know that I have hot stuff to deal with right in the morning, I will stick it on my monitor. So that's what I see right when I start my day.
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Allie Donaldson
And Ebony, you mentioned the military and you tell me a little bit about that background.
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Ebony Wilkins
Yes, yes, yes. So I spent 10 years active duty army providing logistics support. I did deploy into Iraq at the beginning of the I served from 2000 to 2010 and that really gave me the leadership skills that I needed to run the operation that I run. Now.
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Allie Donaldson
Talk to me a little bit more about the operations skills and the leadership, because, you know, my brother's a veteran. He's now in the private sector, and he's talked about that. That can be a difficult transition for people, especially when he was dealing with people that have been on his team of, like, it can be hard. So talk to us about that.
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Ebony Wilkins
It can be hard. It can be hard. You know, I think that being in the military, you have this can do attitude and you feel like, I can just figure it out because you're entrusted with so many jobs and roles and responsibilities in the military. So that mindset sticks with you and you're ready and you're poised and you're prepared to take on so many different roles and responsibilities and just learn it and just execute at a high level. And that's what keeps me going. Now, if some people, when they come into the organization, how do you manage? How do you do so much? I'm able to compartmentalize different tasks and make sure that I see them to completion.
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Allie Donaldson
And I'm curious, too, because this is something I think my brother has told me being in the army, too, that, like, the answer to the question is like, yes or it's, if I don't know, I'm going to figure it out.
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Ebony Wilkins
That's it. That's it. Yes. As I transition from the military and really learning a different space, a different industry, I figured it out. I put on my boots and I went to the sba and I went to local resources within the community. I watched YouTube. I did what I had to do to ensure that we were successful. And I had a concrete plan and.
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Allie Donaldson
Talk to me a little bit about that of, like, going to the sba, like, maybe finding certain, like, business groups and communities, especially for women, for veterans. Like, how did you think about that?
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Ebony Wilkins
Yes, I. Google was my best friend. I was very intentional with Google and then just kind of getting and talking to people and learning about other resources that were available to me.
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Sarah Lynch
When we come back, Ali asks EBONY about the lessons she learned in the early days of the business. But first, a quick break.
- [10:22]
Capital One Advertiser
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- [11:01]
Allie Donaldson
And after you started the company, were there any times you made a mistake that you can look back on that you wish you had done differently?
- [11:08]
Ebony Wilkins
So many mistakes. So many mistakes. Let's see here. So in my early days, too eager to bring people on, and I may have given them a higher salary than what was the market rate, and then trying to pull that back and become in line with the rest of the industry became a difficult task. It's difficult to kind of correct things that are already in motion. In another instance, we're not properly documenting performance. And that's something that could also just kind of just bite you in the butt if you don't do it right.
- [11:45]
Allie Donaldson
And that's really interesting, too, about the salary portion, because I'm sure in the moment you're thinking, I want to be a generous boss. But then at the same time, if the rest of the team looks at it and says, well, that doesn't make sense. That's not fair. 100% ends up not being fair to anyone.
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Ebony Wilkins
100%. 100%. And then your team is questioning your leadership and your thought process, and you're just thinking, I just want to do the right thing. I just want to help people. I want to see you win. But you can't be all things to all people. So you really need to also always work in the best interest of your business, because at the end of the day, that's what you have. That's yours. And. And people come and go.
- [12:27]
Allie Donaldson
You know, when you talked about you can be too eager to hire someone because I get that you want someone on board. You want that gap filled. Have you figured out the perfect sweet spot of timing of like, okay, we can take this amount of time to find the right person for this role.
- [12:41]
Ebony Wilkins
It really boils down to your customer and your client, their timeline, what are their needs. Right. One of the things that we do really well is focus on our core areas. And we continuously have people pouring in with resumes, and we continue to maintain that contact and that communication with them. If a position comes open, it's very easy to call these people up, and then they're ready to go. So we understand what our backlog looks like. Our bench, I should say. And these people are just ready.
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Allie Donaldson
And so, Ebony, you're in a crowded field, you know, in D.C. and government consulting and contracting, you know, what's your best tips for marketing? Standing out from the crowd.
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Ebony Wilkins
Hire a young person to do your marketing. So we have young people that do our marketing. They have the fresh ideas. They know how to get to the customer base. It's very refreshing to just say, oh, I never thought about that. That's good. And being open. Right. So I'm open to trying new things, and I just kind of dive right in.
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Allie Donaldson
And what have been those sort of surprising things that your younger marketing employees have suggested that you were like? Oh, I would never have thought of that.
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Ebony Wilkins
Me doing videos, selling myself. So in the government contracting market, you don't really have to put your face out there because you can just sell. These are my core capabilities. But getting comfortable being in front of the camera and being the face, they really pushed me. Even though I wasn't all that comfortable with hearing my voice, they'd like, no, we got it. We're gonna make sure that it's good. And then just releasing all my fears and allowing them to do all the things that they're great at has just been remarkable.
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Allie Donaldson
And where would they put those videos? Is this like LinkedIn? TikTok? Twitter? Like LinkedIn?
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Ebony Wilkins
LinkedIn and Facebook. LinkedIn and Facebook, yeah. We wanted to really focus on where my customers are, and we just honed in on Facebook, then LinkedIn and on Facebook.
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Allie Donaldson
Is it through your business's page? Are you in certain groups on there?
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Ebony Wilkins
Yes, through my business page, we're very strategic about how we market. If we are mentioning a customer or a client, we're intentional about tagging that page and kind of looping them into the conversation and looping in their pain points. So it's been very effective. Our followers have grown tremendously. Within the last three years. We've gone, I believe, from about 800 followers to almost 4,000 now.
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Sarah Lynch
Wow.
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Allie Donaldson
And, Ebony, I like what you said, too, about, you know, when you hire young people to do marketing, trusting them and being open with these new ideas. Do you have any advice for other founders of just how to let go? Because I think that could be difficult for folks and how to kind of know what you don't know.
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Ebony Wilkins
Yes, yes. Stepping out of your comfort zone and not having your hand on everything. Just realizing that in this day and age, there's a culture shift, and you have to be just media friendly and really being able to listen to them. Okay, well, why ask those questions? Well, why should we post here? Okay, well, then that makes sense. All right. This is where my customer base is. And let's go. I think that's really important for founders. It's been really essential for me to understand the why and then I can be a little bit more open minded.
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Allie Donaldson
And I'm guessing that you've probably found too with your employees, the young employees that are doing this, that when they get ownership over that and they see the results, they see that following count that they've built. Yes, that's what you want from a job saying, look what I did and I built this and it makes you a better employee.
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Ebony Wilkins
It's invigorating for them and I make sure that I acknowledge them publicly and internally to our firm because I want to make sure that they understand the value that you bring and that you are appreciated. So I am very big on appreciation and it keeps them going like they have no shortage of ideas. Sometimes I'm like, okay, that's a little too much, like bring it back just a little bit. But we have fun with it. So I just love it.
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Allie Donaldson
And what's your advice for other founders that may be hearing that for their employees? That you need to put yourself out there, be a public face of your business that are struggling with that of like how they can overcome it.
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Ebony Wilkins
You are the best person to sell your products or service and no one can sell it the way you do. No one understands the mission the way that you do. So you're the best person to our articulated and if you need help with your messaging, get it. But you are definitely the best person.
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Allie Donaldson
And kind of nitty gritty. When you were making those videos at first, you know, how did you improve on that?
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Ebony Wilkins
It took time. It took time to get really comfortable with the camera being able to get my messaging across clearly. But practice is the best medicine. And I started to practice and get more comfortable and then it just flowed and it was easy breezy.
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Allie Donaldson
So it sounds like, give yourself some grace and just keep doing it.
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Ebony Wilkins
Give yourself grace. Yes.
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Allie Donaldson
And for the whole industry looking at government contracting, consulting, like, what is the biggest challenge right now and how are you all trying to navigate that?
- [17:59]
Ebony Wilkins
Yes, in government contracting there are a lot of challenges. It's a big market and you really have to lean into what you're comfortable with and understanding who buys your products or services. Because a lot of times we can get just swallowed up in this big pond and just go all over the place. But you really have to be strategic and really understand who's your target client and how you can get that intimate relationship with them.
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Allie Donaldson
What's been more important right now to your company is it values or culture?
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Ebony Wilkins
Oh, I will say a little bit of both. A little bit of both. Because when we bring someone in, I need to understand that they're a good culture fit, not only for us, but to the customer, right? So for the customer, you can be just the brightest person or just have all the expertise, but if you don't fit into their culture, it becomes to be a divide. And we've noticed that with some of our customers, and they're just like, he's just not a good fit. He may not just work well with our organization. Right? So we need to just kind of understand that. We need to understand that for our culture, we want to look for someone that can grow with us, that's eager to take on new roles and responsibilities, that's eager to roll up their sleeves. So for us, it's both culture and values.
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Allie Donaldson
Well, Ebony, thank you for stopping by.
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Ebony Wilkins
Thank you.
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Sarah Lynch
That's all for this episode of youf Next Move. Our producers are Blake Odom and Avery Miles. Editing and sound design by Nick Torres. Executive producer is Josh Christensen. If you haven't already, subscribe to youo Next Move on Apple podcasts and Spotify or wherever you listen, your Next Move is a production of Inc. And Capital One Business.