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- [00:05]
Sarah Lynch
I'm Sarah lynch and you are listening to your next move audio edition produced by Inc. And Capital One Business. For this season, we gathered an array of conversations with entrepreneurs who made last year's Inc 5000 list. They joined us in our your next move Booth at the Inc 5000 to share lessons learned anecdotes from building their businesses. In this episode, I spoke to Javon Fraser. He is the founder and CEO of the full service strategic game publisher Maestro Media. They were ranked number 167 on the 2024 Inc 5000 list. Maestro Media focuses on building unique bespoke games for some of the biggest brands such as Disney, hello Kitty and the Smurfs. They've also worked with the popular independent video game the Binding of Isaac, which they turned into an independent board game after Jayvon explained how he co created games with fans and launched them on Kickstarter. I wanted to get more details on that process and Maestro Media's growth journey. I want to hear more about the Kickstarter experience in addition to what is just your growth journey looked like in general. Was it a roller coaster or kind of a liftoff?
- [01:23]
Jayvon Fraser
Well, you know the answer to that question, I guess. ING said we had 2,300% growth over the last three years. So yeah, 167, 2300% growth. Yeah, it was. I think I felt every percentage point. Right. We started our business really during COVID and so I'm in a physical goods business. Obviously we're getting into digital games now, but physical goods during COVID was very tough. We had all the shipping issues. I wired seven figures to a manufacturer in China before I even met him. Right. Just for the opportunity to produce our goods. It was a very crazy time. I think we've got this kind of Men in Black flash thing where we kind of want to forget what happened. It was crazy. I think both the beneficiary of COVID I think I started really at a time where people didn't know what to do with their families. I, I think we were kind of overwhelmed and I think we still are overwhelmed with these digital screens. Right. And so having games as a way to bring families together, I mean, I know my family played a board game every night during COVID It was our activity. You couldn't go outside. So board games really became the way that we bonded and had our experiences. And so, you know, really continuing that even post Covid, I think the board game industry continues to grow significantly post Covid with no signs of slowing down and so very excited to be a Part of that, and very excited to really bring people together to the table.
- [02:51]
Sarah Lynch
You mentioned, obviously, you know, wanting to forget some of those crazy challenges that came during that Covid period.
- [02:56]
Jayvon Fraser
I know you're gonna drive on the.
- [02:57]
Sarah Lynch
Challenges, but what did you learn from that time that you can see that you're still implementing today?
- [03:03]
Jayvon Fraser
I think shipping and fulfillment is really tough. I mean, there was a threat of a strike this year, literally. Container costs went up, you know, and then they go down. And now we're in the period. It's October. And so we've got Kickstarters that we have to fulfill, and we want to make good on our promises. The number one thing for a company that's a new company like myself is to make sure that we maintain that customer relationship. And so we're putting product on planes. Right. Which is just very tough from a financial situation. Right. But we want to fulfill for the customers. And I think the other thing, yeah, just having product delays in general. I started this business because literally, I was flying about 150,000 miles a year. I didn't know what my kids ate for breakfast. Right. I was in corporate. I was the chief product officer and president of gaming at a company called Studio71 and really made the transition to Maestro Media to spend more time with my family and spend more time with my kids. And Covid happened in the middle of that. Right. And I was building this business and not able to really go to China. I used to go to China four or five times a year to oversee the process of manufacturing and literally manufacturing things over. Zoom is not how it was intended to be. And when we first launched the first Binding of Isaac, we went on Kickstarter in June of 2018, and we fulfilled in November of 2018, I mean, the binding of Isaac. Four Souls Requiem, the game that really launched Maestre Media, $6.7 million on Kickstarter in 30 days. We launched that in June of 21 and delivered in 2023. Right. And it was just because of, like, the manufacturing over Zoom is very tough. You know, catching mistakes on the line is great when you're there, but when you're not there, it was hard. We had to, like, catch things via video. And I guess I'm opening up on the podcast.
- [04:54]
Sarah Lynch
Right.
- [04:56]
Jayvon Fraser
Tell us. We had a marketing promotional video that we were shooting in the warehouse to be like, finally we've delivered the games. And, like, I saw an error on a marketing video, like. And so it was just, you know, all the issues that, you know, still permeate through our Society because of COVID And I'm going back to China for the first time in, I guess, five years this year in December, because we're trying to get all these products across the finish line and we're putting them on planes. Right. And so I think there's a lot of issues that have permeated, but I think the biggest thing that we're trying to do is what any business owner should do is just, you know, make good in your promises. And we've had delays for quality, right. And so we've been very communicative about that. We want to make sure that we deliver the best product to our fans. And I think we've got some Kickstarters that are coming at the end of the year that we're super, super proud of, that we took the time to get them right. But, you know, that's always a delicate balance, right? You're like, do I just push it out? I'm really focused on our brand and the product that we're delivering because we want to deliver just unique experiences. There's a lot of companies out there that just turn whatever. And we really focused on that. So I guess with any kind of physical goods company, I could talk for four hours about manufacturing and shipping woes. Yeah.
- [06:15]
Sarah Lynch
Well, in addition to the manufacturing, what were some of the other biggest challenges that you had to navigate on this journey of fast growth?
- [06:22]
Jayvon Fraser
Well, I mean, what worked before doesn't work a week or a month later, right? I mean, it was that fast. I mean, 2,300% growth is fantastic from a number standpoint. But I think realistically, we were changing our systems and processes every quarter, right. It was like, we're going from this type of business to another stage of growth to another stage of growth. You know, I read all the books, you know, voraciously read, read the book about stages of growth. And like, I had a business coach who was like, man, growth stages that take companies a year, you're going through in a quarter. So you're having very. You're having to constantly redefine what your business is. And that's very tough for people that work at the company, Right? Because I think a lot of people say they want to work at a startup, but what that means is that there's a lot of changes, right? You know, processes keep changing, product keep changing, service partners keep changing. You know, we had to get to different facilities, different manufacturers, like all those things. And so I think when you're growing at that rate, you're constantly redefining to make sure that you're delivering at the level and the stage of growth that you're at, which is a constant challenge that you know. And even now it's awesome. Like we're working with some of the biggest brands, and because we're working with the biggest brands, we want to deliver the best quality, all those things. And so we're constantly upping our game in order to deliver for both our partners and our fans. And I think that's one of the biggest challenges that you have to do. Because our process is now in October of 24 are very different than our processes in October 23rd. Our people, we've upgraded and enhanced and got amazing new people for our company. Our COO now, we went to business school together. His name is Eric Bertrand. I'm an EOS guy. And the key thing is a book called Rocket Fuel, which is the blending of visionary and integrator. Right? And so getting a great COO with 20 years of investment banking experience to come into our company to really help to provide those structures. But you're bringing in another, you know, senior level person into the the company, a partner into the company. And these are all things that happen. And I think those are natural stages of growth things. But, you know, when you're growing at a fast scale, you're doing it quickly, right?
- [08:36]
Sarah Lynch
When we come back, I ask Jayvon about his hiring process. But first, a quick talk to me more about hiring and how you find and identify those people who are prepared to go on this growth journey with you.
- [08:58]
Jayvon Fraser
I think it requires a certain kind of person, right? I think a lot of people are attracted to gaming. It's a fun space to be in. I have a good time. But I think it's also gaming in a startup, right? And so I think those type of people have to be okay with change and okay with. No, there's not a process for this, that we're defining the process for this. And you know, I think what could be attractive and what we found in the people that we've been able to go on the journey with us is people that are excited about defining that process, right? And like defining, okay, we did this one way, this time from my expertise and we've got people from great companies like Hasbro and Pandasaurus and other gaming companies. And I think one of the things that we've been able to do is attract people that they want to be in a place where they can help define and shape the place. And I think that's the unique type of person, right? And I think our hours aren't standard, right? We don't have that, you know, 9 to 5 workplace. And I think a kind of person that is okay with that and is okay with that, we're helping to shape a company that one day will have their fingerprints on it, like their stamp. And I think that's really the most attractive thing because there's a lot of downsides to working with a startup, right? Like those things that's like nine to five weekends. I'm not a big fan of the term work life balance. I'm more so work life integration, right. I bring my family. I know as a startup founder that there's not gonna be a time where I can just disconnect, especially in the beginning. And so one of the things I strive to focus on is bringing my family to be part of it, right? And I think that's a thing where it's like my family goes on all my trips now. One of the biggest reasons that I wanted to go on this journey was to spend more time with my family. And I think one of the things that you can get lost on is diving into the business so much that you tell yourself a narrative that you're doing this for your family, but then you don't see your family. And so I know that it requires a lot of me for, to grow this business. And I'm dedicated to, to growing this business for myself and for my family and the people that work at the company. But part of that is an understanding that, look, I'm here at this conference, things might happen, whatever. So you know what? My family's at the conference, they're here, they come with me on trips. We went to go, we did a Smurfs game and they went to Belgium and met the lovely people from the Smurfs. They go to the conferences, they work the booths. And I think they love it, right? They're wearing the Maestro Media T shirts, they're doing the things and they feel like a part of the process. They're like, dad, go up there, you got a podcast, right? And it's, it's. And so be able to be example for that. And I think people that work in a startup, one of the things I always say is like, while you're doing it, is to make a better life for yourself, for your family. But don't forget that. But, but understand that there are non standard hours and things like that. And so you have to make sure that you're taking the time to take off to go to the dance recital. And then you have to make that those Hours up another way. Right. And that's why it's really an integration of a mindset of like, it's a different type of work. And I think that's something that people that want to be in the entrepreneurship space have to think about. It's not like a nine to five and I'm off. There's a certain amount of work that has to be done. And how do you kind of integrate that and develop some sort of balance where you can achieve all the things that you want to achieve within that concept?
- [12:22]
Sarah Lynch
I imagine that you could not in a million years achieve everything that you want to achieve in a day. How do you prioritize what really needs to get done and what is most important for the company at that point?
- [12:34]
Jayvon Fraser
Yes, right. I do try to achieve everything every day. I think, you know, for me, I start off with like the things that are most important outside of the company. Right. I think no matter what happens, I want to have dinner with my kids. Right. You know, that was something that we did during COVID was I had to slow down. And one of the big things that we did during COVID was you have a sit down dinner every day. And so maintaining that like no matter what's going on in the business, you know, sitting down to have dinner with your family. And my oldest daughter plays basketball, she's 13. My younger daughter's a dancer. And so not missing the game and not missing the dance recital and then the other pieces have to fit around that. Right. And I think that's how I think about it is I would be remiss to miss those moments. And so structuring a life where I put that first and then I've got all the other hours in the day that I can do the things. And unfortunately, sometimes sleep becomes a sacrifice of that because I'm spending hours during the day at a basketball game. But you know, that's kind of my own personal trade off. And in the business, I think we're very project based. And so getting projects out by a deadline are important. And so unfortunately, what's the most pressing from a timeline standpoint that I kind of prioritize. But over time, we're going from one game to 21 games. Right. You talk about the growth, that's the 2300% growth. And so developing a sustainable process to manage from one game to 21 games, over time, we'll be able to better structure and smooth out that process. We're in the midst of it, right? We're in the midst of developing those processes. And Procedures and bringing on the right people to consistently increase and get better at every day. For our partners and all the creators.
- [14:24]
Sarah Lynch
That we work with, what's one piece of advice that you would give to a founder who is on their growth journey right now and maybe struggling? What would you share with them?
- [14:34]
Jayvon Fraser
I think the last thing I said, I think, why are you doing it? Right? Don't lose why you're doing it. You know, it's funny, right? Like with the family thing I got, for me, it was to spend more time with my family and to provide opportunity for my family. But if I don't see my family and trying to provide opportunity for my family, I'll be 70 years old and say I missed it. Right? And so for me, that created a challenge of, okay, you want to be an entrepreneur, you want to make these games, you want to work with these amazing people and do it your way, right? I strongly believe that at maestromedia, we have a better way of doing it. We work with the fans so closely, we work with the creators so closely. We put together the most amazing creators with the most incredible ip, the strongest IP in the world. And so I want to do this, I want to take that journey, but I don't want to sacrifice my family, right? And so how do I get both? And my daughters will laugh. They're the most underpaid or unpaid play testers in the world, but they're a part of it. But we made a Smurfs game and my daughter watched every single episode of the Smurfs and I was like, great, I can do this with you. It's market research, for God's sake. And so for me, that was. I wanted to have family and the business, and so I made that choice. And some people want to have travel, some people, whatever it is, but they lose sight of the reason why they're doing it. And that's why they get burnt out, right? It's like the business takes them away from the goal. And I think for any founder, I would recommend that you constantly define your North Star of the reason why you started this business. And don't lose sight of that. Because it's so easy to lose sight of that. Because anyone that's growing like we're growing, they're getting hit with a million fires every day. And it's. The business is changing and all that. And then you'll look up and it's like, oh, my God, right? And I'll tell you very transparently, I mean, I just went to Germany two weeks ago and that was the first time I had traveled without my family, and I was at this conference by myself. As soon as I got here, I, like, pulled up in the parking lot. I'm like, I'm missing something. And it was my family. And I was like. And I was like, guys, pack up your stuff and come down here. And my wife did. And I just had lunch with them. And it just. Just meant the world to me. It recharged my spirit. And I would say to any founder, don't lose sight of the reason why you're doing it.
- [16:59]
Sarah Lynch
Jayvon, thank you so much for spending some time with us in the booth and sharing your story.
- [17:04]
Jayvon Fraser
Thank you so much.
- [17:07]
Sarah Lynch
That's all for this episode of youf Next Move. Our producers are Blake Odom and Avery Miles. Editing and sound design by Nick Torres. Executive producer is Josh Christensen. If you haven't already, subscribe to youo Next Move on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen, your Next Move is a production of Inc And Capital One Business.