Episode Summary: The Art of Hiring—Strategies for Building a Winning Team

Podcast Title: Your Next Move
Host: Mike Hoffman, Editor-in-Chief of Inc. Magazine
Guests:

• Che Huang: Co-founder of Box
• Brandon Ivan Pena: Founder of 787 Coffee
  Release Date: June 3, 2025

Introduction

In this insightful episode of Your Next Move, Mike Hoffman engages in a deep conversation with two successful entrepreneurs, Che Huang of Box and Brandon Ivan Pena of 787 Coffee. The focus is on the pivotal role of hiring and team building in driving business success. Both founders share their unique approaches, challenges, and lessons learned in cultivating winning teams and robust company cultures.

Building Company Culture

Box: Culture Born Out of Necessity

Che Huang describes how Box's culture developed organically. Instead of formalizing culture into written rules, the company instilled its values through immersive experiences.

“The culture that we established many years ago when we co-founded the company was really born out of necessity… everyone started at the fulfillment center… seeing the front lines… I think pervaded our culture throughout the 10 years that I ran the company.”
(01:14)

This approach fostered empathy among employees, ensuring that every team member understood the operational challenges and valued each other's contributions.

787 Coffee: Human-Centric and Passion-Driven

Brandon Ivan Pena emphasizes the importance of the human element in 787 Coffee’s culture. From the outset, the focus has been on hiring individuals who are adaptable, social, and passionate about coffee.

“If you are not willing and able to look in the eye, if you're not willing and able to be adaptable and social, then 787 is definitely not a great place for you.”
(02:29)

By prioritizing passion and adaptability over specific skill sets initially, 787 Coffee fosters a dynamic and collaborative environment.

Scaling the Workforce

Box: From Garage Startup to Public Company

Che Huang recounts Box's rapid growth from a modest team of three in a garage to nearly a thousand employees as the company approached public markets.

“When we were entering the public markets, we were almost a thousand people at that point… the stuff that is not written on the wall was stuff that never evolved because, you know, it's just core to who we were.”
(03:45)

Despite the scale, the foundational culture remained intact, underscoring the importance of core values in sustained growth.

787 Coffee: Community and Vendor Integration

Brandon Ivan Pena discusses 787 Coffee’s expansion to 30 coffee shops across states like Puerto Rico, New York, Texas, and New Jersey, aiming to finish the year with 40 locations.

“We're currently between 300 to 400 and growing… the community is way bigger because we work with a lot of vendors… they're part of the community.”
(04:08)

This holistic view includes not just employees but also vendors and the broader community, ensuring a supportive ecosystem for growth.

Hiring Strategies and Missteps

Early Days and Learning from Mistakes at Box

Che Huang reflects on early hiring missteps at Box, such as hiring for specific expertise too soon, which hindered flexibility.

“Hiring for specific expertise a little bit too early… you need the Swiss army knives… early on, just hiring someone that would only do one thing… was a misstep.”
(09:22)

These challenges taught Box the importance of versatile team members who can adapt to evolving business needs.

787 Coffee’s Organic Growth and Resilience

Brandon Ivan Pena shares how 787 Coffee's growth was shaped by significant events like Hurricane Maria and the Covid-19 pandemic.

“When every single coffee shop was closing in 2020, we were acquiring coffee shops… we kept true to our DNA of hiring with passion, empathy, love.”
(08:13)

These experiences underscored the need for resilience and proactive hiring to navigate unforeseen challenges.

Building and Training Leadership

Box: Professionalizing the Management Team

As Box grew, Che Huang identified the necessity of a professional management team to sustain and elevate operations.

“When we were starting to get to 100 employees… needed a management team who can take this to the next level.”
(25:07)

He emphasizes hiring leaders with experience in both small and large companies to balance flexibility with structured processes.

787 Coffee: The Infinity System

Brandon Ivan Pena introduces the “Infinity” system, a unique approach to managing and training employees in small, supportive groups.

“We have only eight people that we look after where part we have each other's back, we train… that's how we've been able to scale.”
(16:09)

This system fosters close-knit teams, direct communication, and continuous leadership development, enabling effective scaling without losing the personal touch.

Adapting to Growth and Merging Cultures

Box’s Acquisition Challenges

Che Huang discusses the complexities of integrating acquired companies, highlighting the need for adaptability and resilience.

“Merging two cultures wasn’t easy… explaining the mission was really critical.”
(34:18)

Balancing different operational processes while maintaining high standards required strategic communication and flexibility.

787 Coffee’s Strategic Expansion

Brandon Ivan Pena recounts the strategic closure of underperforming shops and the focus on leadership training to support sustainable growth.

“In 2023, we set up a great template for growth… every Tuesday now, we have a strategy meeting to train leaders.”
(26:55)

This strategic pivot ensured that the company’s expansion was backed by strong leadership and clear objectives.

Return to Office and Remote Work Policies

787 Coffee’s Emphasis on Office Culture

Brandon Ivan Pena advocates for a purposeful office presence, valuing social interactions and measuring productivity by outcomes rather than hours spent in the office.

“It's being productive and giving you a sense of purpose... we order food, we drink coffee, we talk about life.”
(35:37)

Box’s Focus on Meaningful Office Engagement

Che Huang stresses the importance of providing genuine reasons for employees to work in the office beyond perks.

“Provide a reason to be in the office… willingness to connect with other team members or projects giving them that reason.”
(37:35)

Pay and Reward Philosophy

Box: Competitive Compensation and Beyond

Che Huang believes in offering top pay to attract and retain top talent, alongside non-monetary rewards.

“Top talent in the world command and deserve top pay… pay is not only monetary but could be other kind of rewarding experiences as well.”
(39:15)

787 Coffee: Balancing Pay with Intrinsic Motivation

Brandon Ivan Pena emphasizes that while competitive pay is essential, intrinsic factors like passion and purpose drive long-term employee engagement.

“Pay is important, but it's just a basic need. We have to give them purpose and ownership.”
(39:34)

787 Coffee offers pay 93% higher than competitors, fostering loyalty and motivation through meaningful work and personal growth opportunities.

Use of AI in Hiring

787 Coffee’s Integration of AI and Technology

Brandon Ivan Pena discusses the use of AI for initial screening processes and the integration of virtual reality for training.

“We use AI to filter questions and resumes… integrating technology, but we still need the human element.”
(41:11)

Box’s Focus on Augmented Reality for Training

Che Huang explores the potential of augmented and extended reality in enhancing training effectiveness.

“Augmented reality and extended reality, it really is profound… retention is like times 3x3 versus any other.”
(42:19)

Both founders acknowledge the transformative potential of AI and AR but maintain that the human element remains irreplaceable.

Engaging Gen Z

Understanding Gen Z’s Expectations

The founders share their insights on Gen Z workers, highlighting their desire for flexibility, purpose, and authentic engagement.

“Gen Z is digital first, want flexibility and purpose… they know what they want.”
(43:56)

Che Huang notes that Gen Z prefers straightforward communication and clear mission alignment, while Brandon appreciates their readiness and willingness when led by passionate leaders.

Viewer Questions

1. Fixing the Hiring Process

Brandon Ivan Pena:

“Care for the humans you hire. They're not just numbers.”
(52:43)

Che Huang:

“Spend more time with each other… more time to get to know each other.”
(52:59)

Both emphasize the importance of genuine care and extensive interaction to ensure mutual fit.

2. Adjusting Job Descriptions

Che Huang:

“In the early days, more exceptions… later, it's best for both parties to acknowledge mismatches.”
(53:43)

Maintaining clear role definitions ensures fairness and alignment between job requirements and candidate capabilities.

3. Transitioning to Full-Time Roles

Brandon Ivan Pena:

“Hire based on the four pillars… if they align, move them to full-time.”
(54:35)

Che Huang:

“Assess business need and cultural fit before transitioning.”
(54:17)

Decision to convert roles depends on ongoing evaluation of performance and alignment with company culture.

4. Building Trust with Employees

Brandon Ivan Pena:

“Treat them as coworkers… be a mentor.”
(55:01)

Che Huang:

“Trust yourself and your hiring process… avoid micromanagement.”
(55:23)

Trust is built through respectful treatment and confidence in the hiring decisions, fostering a two-way relationship.

Conclusion

Mike Hoffman wraps up the episode by highlighting the invaluable insights shared by Che Huang and Brandon Ivan Pena. Emphasizing the importance of tailored hiring strategies, authentic culture-building, and continuous leadership development, the discussion underscores that a winning team is the cornerstone of business success. Hoffman teases the next episode, which will delve into running a technology company in the age of AI.

Notable Quotes

• Che Huang:
  “The culture that we established… was really born out of necessity.”
  (01:14)

• Brandon Ivan Pena:
  “If you are not willing and able to look in the eye… then 787 is definitely not a great place for you.”
  (02:29)

• Che Huang:
  “Hiring for specific expertise a little bit too early… was a misstep.”
  (09:22)

• Brandon Ivan Pena:
  “We have only eight people that we look after… that's how we've been able to scale.”
  (16:09)

• Che Huang:
  “Top talent in the world command and deserve top pay.”
  (39:15)

• Brandon Ivan Pena:
  “Pay is important, but it's just a basic need… we have to give them purpose and ownership.”
  (39:34)

• Che Huang:
  “Trust yourself that you did a great job in hiring.”
  (55:23)

This episode offers a comprehensive look into effective hiring practices and team building from two industry leaders. Whether you're a startup founder or scaling an established company, the strategies and experiences shared by Che Huang and Brandon Ivan Pena provide valuable guidance for building and maintaining a successful team.