You're Wrong About x Endless Thread: "How to Deprogram a Guy in 10 Days"

(March 17, 2026)

Episode Overview

In this crossover event, Sarah Marshall of You're Wrong About is joined by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson of Endless Thread. The hosts explore the concept of "deprogramming"—changing deeply held beliefs—especially as it relates to cult-like thinking, conspiracy theories, and misinformation in our culture. Drawing from their respective shows' investigative work, they discuss the psychology and history behind radicalization, the process (and pitfalls) of changing someone's mind, and the importance of patience, community, and honest dialogue.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Shared Histories of Pop Culture, Internet Lore, and Misremembered Truths

• The hosts discuss their shows’ origins, with Endless Thread delving into internet mysteries and the Mandela Effect, while You're Wrong About seeks to correct pop culture misunderstandings. Both note a shift from quirky internet stories toward deeper, more fraught societal issues (00:58–04:30).
  • "It did feel more friendly in 2017, I will say." – Ben (02:03)
  • They reflect on growing cynicism regarding the internet, and the way once-innocent platforms became divisive spaces.

2. The Internet: From Uplifting Connections to Culture Wars

• Early internet optimism gave way to harsher realities. Still, moments like r/ChangeMyView offer hope for good-faith dialogue (04:39–06:58; 30:21–32:58).
  • Sarah describes internet fatigue and nostalgia for more whimsical online spaces.

3. Why Do People Get “Programmed” (and How Do They Get Out)?

• The title, "How to Deprogram a Guy in 10 Days," is used to question whether—and how—it’s possible to change minds about deeply entrenched beliefs, from cults and abusive families to political fandom and conspiracy theories (08:45–11:07).
  • "An abusive family has about the same structure a lot of the time as a cult, which has the same structure a lot of the time as a dictatorship." – Sarah (09:36)

4. Historical Parallels: The Long Roots of Skepticism and Misinformation

• The hosts recall the history of vaccination skepticism—a thread stretching from Cotton Mather’s 18th-century Boston to the modern anti-vax movement (15:58–22:19).
  • "Mainstream thinking can flip flop and become fringe… vaccines are a perfect example of this." – Amory (19:42)
  • They emphasize that resistance to new ideas is historical, not novel, and that understanding this helps deprogram current skeptics.

5. Deprogramming: Tools, Techniques, and Tensions

a. Acknowledge Nuance, Not Caricature

• Admit past scientific failures: "Science has broken some very precious eggs for very little reason to make some very pointless omelets." – Sarah (25:44)

b. How Not to Deprogram

• Dismissiveness and ridicule only entrench beliefs.
• “If you're a jerk to them and you… tell them they're stupid, that's not going to work. That's a bad place to start.” – Ben (28:47)
• Patients, especially vaccine-hesitant parents, are more likely to become anti-vax when dismissed by doctors (27:24–28:29).

c. What Works

• Patience, trust-building, and genuine curiosity.
  • "You have to actually spend, believe it or not, more time with them, not less." – Ben (48:07)
• Find common ground and shared concerns, even if it’s skepticism towards corporations like Big Pharma (47:04–48:38).
• Seeds of doubt are powerful: Jatarth, a QAnon believer, left the movement after seeing evidence that Trump’s use of the word “tippy top” pre-dated QAnon, demonstrating how tiny cracks in certainty can open space for change (51:14–52:32).

d. The Limits of Deprogramming

• Recognize that for some, maintaining a relationship isn’t safe or healthy. It’s okay not to engage if it’s damaging (48:38–50:43).

6. Community: The Lure and the Trap

• Conspiracy movements, like QAnon, provide a sense of connection and purpose to isolated individuals (37:06–40:33).
  • "Q brought him so much joy for the first time in a while because he felt like he had this… meaning that he was a warrior for this information." – Amory (36:59)
• Online "communities" can feel real but are often shallow substitutes for in-person connections (41:16–42:35).
• True change depends on replacing lost community and meaning with supportive, authentic relationships—"wrap your arms around that person when they do come out of it" (54:14).

7. Deprogramming Case Studies & Examples

• Herman Cain Award subreddit: Watching anti-vaxxers face consequences often leads to schadenfreude, but rarely persuades skeptics (55:05–59:22).
• Jatarth’s story: Departed QAnon after encountering doubt, illustrating the unpredictable yet essential role of cognitive dissonance.
• Hasan Piker’s fans: Exposure to new voices can reshape political beliefs, with parasocial relationships sometimes nudging individuals toward empathy and openness (60:23–62:19).
• Personal reflections: The hosts share moments when they themselves were “deprogrammed”—Amory around childfree living, Sarah regarding sleep habits, and Amory’s work-in-progress relationship with veganism.

8. Viral Truth vs. Viral Rage

• The internet rewards outrage and simplicity over truth and complexity.
  • "It's hard to make the truth go viral." – (65:35–67:21)
• The real antidote is replacing performative online “community” with real, human-scale connection—something that can’t be scaled up algorithmically (65:01–65:06).

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• "You come together because you all love newsies, and then you look around and you realize that you're all bisexual 15 year olds." – Sarah (00:00, intro callback at 42:08)
• "Part of the answer is like acknowledging that stuff is actually helpful because it builds rapport with the person that you're trying to bring around." – Ben (23:21)
• "We are set up to fail with social media just literally digging its nails into you…" – Amory (68:38)
• "You can train yourself like you're your own cute little dog… to do something important for a stupid little reason." – Sarah (71:32)
• "The truth feels good, but… you do lose some of that sort of greater purpose." – Amory (54:14)
• "Anyone dying unnecessarily is a sad thing. And it's sort of somewhat nihilistic to make fun of people, you know, for dying, I think." – Ben (56:50)

Recommendations & Lighthearted Moments

• Newsies fanfic, the legendary "Movie Hat," the infamous "girl with the buttons" on TikTok—small joys and inside jokes provide levity.
• Suggested Endless Thread episodes: "We Want Plates" (81:32), "Pile of Crockery" (82:24), "Artist Known" about the uncredited Wrinkle in Time book cover (82:45).
  • "If you want to hear us go on a journey into the woods looking for a mountain of abandoned dishware…” – Amory (82:26)

Conclusion & Takeaways

• Deprogramming isn’t accomplished in ten days—or, sometimes, at all—but real change comes through patience, honesty, dialogue, and human connection.
• Social media and the internet make this harder by rewarding rage and entrenching beliefs, but seeds of doubt and acts of empathy really can move people.
• There’s no shame in choosing not to engage with the unpersuadable, but for those willing and able, trust and compassion are more effective than ridicule.
• Communities, whether built around Newsies, bananas, politics, or buttons, are best when they foster curiosity, solidarity, and genuine understanding.

For more:

• Listen to Endless Thread’s "We Want Plates," "Pile of Crockery," and "Artist Known" (81:32–83:14)
• Explore the odd, the wondrous, and the misunderstood—together, offline, with buttons, or in the woods on the trail of missing dishes.