You're Wrong About – Keiko Part 2 with Brianna Bowman

Host: Sarah Marshall
Guest: Brianna Bowman (orca and dolphin enthusiast)
Date: February 10, 2026

Overview

In this second chapter of the “Keiko” trilogy, Sarah Marshall and marine mammal expert Brianna Bowman continue to reconsider the story of Keiko— the orca made famous by Free Willy— and how the attempt to return him to the wild shaped public imagination, conservation strategies, and public fundraising efforts. They cover Keiko’s move from Mexico City to the Oregon Coast Aquarium, the challenges surrounding his rehabilitation, funding drama, the complicated intersection of capitalism and animal welfare, and the beginning of his journey back to Iceland. The conversation is rich with cultural, ethical, and personal observations, mixing humor and hard questions about what it means to “free” a whale.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Keiko Phenomenon: From Captivity to Celebrity

• Recap: Keiko, the killer whale from Free Willy, was captured near Iceland in the late '70s and ended up in a small, overheated tank in a Mexico City amusement park.
• Sarah: “He’s a lovely little killer whale. He certainly is killer. And he’s a sweet little guy.” (03:01)
• The film’s popularity brought attention to Keiko’s actual living conditions, sparking a global effort to improve his life and, eventually, reintroduce him to the ocean.

2. Animals in Human Stories & Public Imagination

• The American tradition of “child and animal” narratives, from My Side of the Mountain to Free Willy, shapes how people relate to animal welfare.
• Sarah: “There are so many narratives in American culture... about kid and animal who become friends and understand each other.” (06:03)

3. The Ethics and Practicality of Whale Release

• Brianna complicates the “success/failure” binary regarding Keiko’s story, focusing on what can be learned instead.
  • Brianna: “The more interesting question is about what we did learn... and how we can do things differently next time, and understanding the nuance involved and all the... shades of gray.” (08:24)
• The goals for Keiko’s release were frequently in tension—some saw only freedom as a true victory, often projecting human ideas onto orca welfare.
  • Sarah: “It’s also interesting to ask...whether that might inevitably be influenced by the very human perspective that values freedom as a value that possibly is a value that orcas might not have.” (18:56)
  • Brianna: “Yeah, no, I think you nailed it.” (19:12)

4. The Wild Plan: From Fundraising to Whale Transport

• The Oregon Coast Aquarium built an enormous custom tank for Keiko, funded through public donations (including Keiko Adoption Kits), Hollywood, and a crucial multimillion-dollar gift from billionaire Craig McCaw.
• Sarah: “If I’m Hollywood, I would just go to, like, a Dodgers game and just, like, ask the people in my row, just...will you pledge some money to the Free Willy thing?” (29:11)
• Key logistics: Keiko was transported by a chartered UPS cargo plane in a custom-built container, drawing crowds at every city.

5. The Role of Billionaires & Boardroom Control

• Philanthropy from Craig McCaw (likened to Jurassic Park’s John Hammond by Brianna) was transformative but also shifted project priorities and introduced new complications.
  • Brianna: “He’s definitely our John Hammond from Jurassic Park. He just has a lot of money and is very enthusiastic about this project.” (23:30)
• McCaw’s control led to staff tensions and skepticism:
  • Brianna: “There’s a lot of people that start to get involved with the leadership of this project that are not...scientists and...not animal behaviorists...it’s like, that in itself isn’t a bad thing. But sometimes the goals are not aligned.” (32:47)
  • Sarah: “It creates the potential for someone not being able to be overridden...in a way that’s always worrisome, regardless of who’s playing that role.” (35:01)

6. Keiko as Oregonian & Community Figure

• Keiko’s arrival in Newport, Oregon, was a major cultural moment in the region.
  • Schoolchildren lined up on field trips to visit him; he became an unofficial state mascot for a generation.
  • Sarah: “It was a huge deal. We got to school at seven and we got back at seven p.m...And I remember buying a book in the gift shop about bats.” (46:03)
  • Brianna: “He was so engaged with people...He would hang out at the window where you could see him and he would just watch you. So, like, kids would be, like, doing silly things...He was an extrovert.” (47:45)

7. Rehabilitation: Health, Behavioral Training, and Human Relationships

• Large investments helped return Keiko to health: cold, clean ocean water, veterinary care, and new behavioral training.
  • Brianna: “Keiko’s health really improves during his stay at the Oregon Coast Aquarium...his tank...just is really substantially larger...It has actual seawater pumped in from Yaquina Bay...” (36:11)
• Trainers worked on his stamina, diving, and ability to hunt live fish, with mixed success and plenty of human-centric optimism.
  • Sarah: “It is a little funny to think that...we thought we had the capability of teaching an apex predator, like a killer whale, how to hunt.” (52:20)

8. The Iceland Decision: Logistics and Luck

• Iceland—Keiko’s birthplace—became the chosen site for the next attempt at wild release, largely because billionaire Craig McCaw said so.
  • Brianna [quoting]: “Macaw broke in finally, ‘Keiko is from Iceland, and we’re thinking of bringing him somewhere else?’...‘No, no, no. We’re bringing him to Iceland.’” (57:56)
• The scouting trip to Iceland is recounted in a memorable scene with the saxophonist guide playing “Amazing Grace” in Keiko’s future home bay. (63:36)
• The move involved building a large sea pen in Klettsvik Bay, complex international permitting, and preparing for the next phase: limited-human-contact rewilding.

9. Theories, Training, and Team Friction

• Arrival in Iceland led to new protocols and power struggles, as SeaWorld-affiliated trainers like Mark Simmons pushed for stricter regimens aimed at getting Keiko to act like a wild orca and avoid human dependency.
  • Brianna: “When they arrived on the project...they felt like anyone in the vicinity...could just walk out to the platform and interact with Keiko, and that...was counterintuitive to what the end goal of the project was.” (89:59)
• Tensions between old caretakers (who loved Keiko’s friendliness with humans) and new trainers aiming to suppress it.
  • Sarah: “Logic and sentimentality are a little bit at war. And is that what they’re saying in terms of dependence on humans...?” (90:44)
  • Brianna: “They wanted him to learn how to seek out the attention of other wild whales and...lose interest in people.” (90:55)
• Details from Mark Simmons’ book (Killing Keiko) about “innovative behavior” exercises (i.e., rewarding Keiko for doing novel tricks) raise ethical and practical questions about animal training.
  • Sarah: “I can’t think of many dogs that I have known that wouldn’t hate that.” (96:36)

10. Larger Reflections and Ethical Dilemmas

• The episode repeatedly circles back to broader themes:
  • The tension between what humans want (redemption, a clean narrative, symbolic victory) and what may actually be best for an individual animal.
  • The ways in which animal intelligence is misunderstood or anthropomorphized.
  • Reflection on how reliance on philanthropy warps project priorities.
• Notable Quote, Brianna: “The more interesting question is about what we did learn and the parts where we did fail to reach the goal and how we can do things differently next time, and understanding the nuance involved and all the... shades of gray.” (08:24)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Sarah, on orcas’ social lives and billionaire yacht attacks:
  “You used to be really cute and people-pleasing and you would jump through hoops, and now you just want to attack billionaires’ yachts.” (01:54)

• Keiko as cultural outlier:
  “Keiko is really the President Zelensky of the ocean.” (12:28)

• On fundraising and corporate involvement:
  “Having a big building with your name on it won’t help you. Teenagers will put gum on it.” (23:57)

• A small town’s transformation:
  “Keiko had a huge procession that said farewell to him from Mexico City. And there was a sizable crowd here in Newport. But it is a small town...” (28:14)

• Mattel’s Barbie Fundraiser for Keiko, from archival video:
  “We created Ocean Friends Barbie and a portion of the proceeds...will go towards Keiko's recovery. So I am very happy today to present to you...this donation for $500,000...” (49:21)

• Human projections and animal behavior:
  “We want animals to include us and then we make them worse at surviving among their own.” (48:09)

• On limited animal release precedents:
  “I’ve come across some stories of releases, but...whether those were actually successful or not is unclear to me, because they weren’t tracking the whale afterwards.” (73:03)

• Mantis shrimp digression (color vision and cross-species intelligence):
  “What if that mantis shrimp is like the little girl in the Exorcist? And it’s like, ‘you’re gonna die up there.’” (78:02)

• On the absurdities of retraining an orca:
  “It's a little funny to think that... we thought we had the capability of teaching an apex predator, like a killer whale, how to hunt.” (52:20)

• Reminiscence and humor:
  “He was just a very affable, friendly golden retriever of a whale, even to the point of being passive and not showing a lot of motivation, I guess. And I'm not saying that's like a flaw.” (93:26)

• Choreographing an Icelandic training montage:
  “Just imagine, you know, people in, like, their wetsuits, splash suits out on the dock, and they got their whistles... Keiko's, you know, jumping out of the water, swimming in circles, whatever it is. So the song that Mark Simmons mentioned in his book was ‘Dancing Queen’ by ABBA.” (99:43)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:38] – Sarah’s in-episode recap of Keiko’s capture and early life
• [13:21] – How you transport a whale (sliding into air cargo logistics)
• [23:49] – Craig McCaw, billionaire philanthropist, enters the story
• [28:14] – Keiko arrives in Newport, Oregon: community impact
• [36:11] – Keiko’s health and happiness in Oregon
• [45:28] – Sarah & Brianna’s personal childhood memories visiting Keiko
• [52:20] – Attempts to teach Keiko to catch live fish
• [57:56] – Iceland chosen by billionaire fiat: “No, no, no. We’re bringing him to Iceland.”
• [63:36] – The “Amazing Grace” saxophone moment in Klettsvik Bay
• [79:09] – Arrival in Iceland: permittings, challenges, and philosophy
• [89:59] – Mark Simmons and Robin Friday impose stricter protocols
• [99:43] – Keiko’s training montage and “Dancing Queen”

Tone & Style Observations

• Witty, conversational, and peppered with digressions (puns, pop culture references, asides about animal trivia and the podcasting process itself).
• Anna and Brianna interweave warmth, deep research, and genuine melancholy/ambivalence about the meaning of “freedom” for animals.
• Frequent reminders of personal stakes: both hosts are former “dolphin girls” growing up in Oregon, which colors their empathy and sense of responsibility.

Conclusion & Next Steps

This episode covers Keiko's Oregon years and lays out the challenges and hopes (and sometimes comic misunderstandings) of trying to “rewild” an orca who had become deeply bonded to humans. As the episode closes, Sarah and Brianna prepare for the dramatic conclusion in Iceland, where competing priorities, technical hurdles, and ethical questions become inescapable.
Stay tuned for Part 3.