Zero Hour with James Poulos Episode 87 | Why the West Is Losing the Culture War | Jonathan Pageau Release Date: March 3, 2025

Introduction

In Episode 87 of Zero Hour with James Poulos, host James Poulos engages in a profound conversation with Jonathan Pageau, an artist, writer, public speaker, and host of the "Symbolic World" podcast. The discussion delves into the current state of Western civilization, exploring the cultural fragmentation, the impact of technology, and the ongoing "culture war" that threatens the spiritual and societal fabric of the West.

Understanding the Edge of Civilization

The episode begins with a metaphorical exploration of society being at the "edge" or "fringe" of something significant. Pageau describes this phase as characterized by coherence that simultaneously appears as fragmentation and an excess of strength. He likens the current state to a carnival—a blend of funhouse-like experiences where moments of joy can swiftly turn into fear and despair.

Notable Quote:

"We are in a kind of large carnival and all our civilization has reached a carnival point."
— Jonathan Pageau [02:24]

This carnival analogy emphasizes the precarious balance between freedom and excess, highlighting how societal looseness can lead to both liberation and breakdown.

The Pendulum Swing of American Society

Poulos and Pageau discuss the historical pendulum swing in American society between extremes, a phenomenon not unique to the modern era but evident throughout history. Pageau points out that societal norms have always oscillated, using Prohibition and the subsequent party culture of the 60s as examples. This swing extends to responses to crises like the COVID-19 pandemic, where society oscillated between hedonism and a desperate need for control.

Notable Quote:

"As you reach the edge of something, the pendulum starts to swing wider and wider."
— Jonathan Pageau [04:10]

The conversation underscores the necessity of finding a balance between identity, participation, and flexibility to prevent societal collapse.

Identity and Participation in the West

A central theme of the episode is the concept of identity as participation rather than mere self-conception. Pageau argues that true identity is rooted in engaging roles—such as being a father, husband, or community member—rather than abstract self-definition. This participatory identity fosters stability and resilience in individuals, counteracting the fragmented sense of self prevalent in contemporary Western society.

Notable Quote:

"Identity is something that you engage in. It’s singing the national anthem, for example, the United States. It’s much closer to identity than thinking about what we are."
— Jonathan Pageau [14:03]

This perspective emphasizes the importance of rootedness and active participation in community and cultural practices as a foundation for a cohesive societal structure.

The Decline of Symbolic Culture

The decline of symbolic culture in the West is attributed to the overemphasis on intellectualism and the separation of mind and body—a legacy dating back to the end of the Middle Ages with nominalism. Pageau explains how this separation has led to a pervasive sense of alienation and a fragmented sense of identity, where individuals are disconnected from the external realities of their bodies and communities.

Notable Quote:

"Identity is participation. It's not actually totally who you think you are or how you think about yourself. It's where you are and how you participate in that world."
— Jonathan Pageau [14:03]

The conversation highlights the consequences of modern Western metaphysics, where the disincarnation of knowledge from embodied experience has weakened the cultural and spiritual bonds that sustain society.

The Role of Technology and Media

Poulos and Pageau critique the pervasive influence of technology and media in exacerbating cultural fragmentation. They discuss how online platforms create illusions of connection and identity while promoting superficiality and a constant barrage of information that drowns out meaningful silence and contemplation.

Notable Quote:

"The online world and the media world has made it, of course, difficult because we're constantly being put images of world conflicts in front of us."
— Jonathan Pageau [11:52]

The hosts argue that the digital age has shifted focus from substantive participation to the production of words and images, leading to a loss of depth in personal and communal identities.

Hope Through Traditional Practices and Creative Renaissance

Despite the pervasive challenges, Pageau expresses optimism about potential renaissances in art and spirituality. He notes a resurgence in traditional practices, such as a return to church attendance and a growing appreciation for meaningful, high-quality art that transcends the superficiality of modern media.

Notable Quote:

"We're also seeing new pockets that are opening for possibly speaking back into culture in ways that were nearly impossible 20 years ago."
— Jonathan Pageau [36:15]

Pageau shares his own projects aimed at revitalizing fairy tales, presenting them in a sophisticated yet accessible manner that appeals to both children and adults. He emphasizes the importance of creating tangible, beautifully crafted books as a counter to the ephemeral nature of digital content.

Political Dynamics and Future Outlook

In discussing political dynamics, Pageau remains cautiously hopeful that Western societies can find a balanced path amidst their oscillations between extremes. He highlights the potential for positive change in regions like Europe and Canada, where there are signs of rejecting chaotic and absolutist ideologies in favor of more stable and harmonious approaches.

Notable Quote:

"The danger is to flip because this is also the issue with the west is that we have this pendulum, like we go from Weimar to the Reich."
— Jonathan Pageau [41:33]

Poulos and Pageau conclude by underscoring the importance of maintaining silence, stillness, and meaningful participation in personal and communal practices as essential anchors in navigating the cultural turbulence of the present day.

Conclusion

Episode 87 of Zero Hour with James Poulos offers a deep exploration into why the West feels like it's losing the culture war. Through Jonathan Pageau's insightful analysis, the conversation underscores the critical need for a return to participatory identity, symbolic culture, and meaningful engagement to counteract the fragmentation and superficiality perpetuated by modern technology and media. The episode serves as both a diagnosis of contemporary Western society and a roadmap for cultural and spiritual rejuvenation.

Listen to the full episode on Blaze Podcast Network to delve deeper into these compelling discussions.