← Zero Hour with James Poulos
Zero Hour with James Poulos
Ep 91 | White House Adviser Reveals RFK Jr.’s Plan to Expose the Medical Deep State | Calley Means
00:40:46
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- [00:00]
Casey
I can say to my new Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra, hey, find a keto.
- [00:04]
Kelly
Friendly restaurant nearby and text it to Beth and Steve.
- [00:07]
Casey
And it does without me lifting a finger so I can get in more squats anywhere I can. 1, 2, 3. Will that be cash or credit? Credit.
- [00:17]
Kelly
4 Galaxy S25 Ultra the AI companion that does the heavy lifting. So you can do you get yours@samsung.com compatible with select apps. Requires Google Gemini account. Results may vary based on input. Check responses for.
- [00:59]
Casey
All right, Kelly Means, thank you so much for joining us.
- [01:01]
Kelly
Health.
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Casey
Such an enormous part of what's going on across the country for good and for ill. I mean, in some ways Americans have never been in worse health and in other ways Americans have never really been more conscious of kind of what's at stake. Lay out for us real quick. You know, you're a guy who's been into the whole sort of like improving America's metabolism for a long time. Your sister's an md, been working together on improving America's health. What was your on ramp into this movement and did you really expect that it would take off so fast?
- [01:30]
Kelly
3 on ramps. The movement. 15 years ago I was a good young conservative. I interned at the Heritage foundation, the White House for George W. Bush and got into campaigns, inevitably did consulting for food and pharma. That's where everyone goes.
- [01:42]
Casey
Yeah.
- [01:42]
Kelly
And the story I always talk about as I helped Coca Cola shuttle money to NAACP and the NAACP said it was racist to take away food stamp funding for soda. Now 18% of food stamp funding goes to soda and counting and counting. So kind of. And then, and then a lot on the pharma side, which is profiting the fact that we're subsidizing soda for kids and 38% of teens now have pre diabetes. The second awakening is my sister, star of the family, Stanford Med School. All the credentials left when she realized she didn't learn in all this training NIH as well. She didn't learn one time, one class why people get sick. She is trained to be a mechanic, to profit from people being sick, to cut them open and prescribe pills and then just had a typical experience. My mom gets stage four cancer and the medical system says it's unlucky, but she was on five other pills. We're missing the warning signs right now. And am I surprised it's become a political movement? I think it's amazing and we owe a great debt of gratitude to Bobby Kennedy and Donald Trump for bringing this to national conversation. But coming from my DC experience And what I've been trying to offer to this in the past couple of years is there was an underpriced political asset with this issue of making America's healthy. It transcends politics. If you look at people around this hall, people in America, they are very frustrated with their kids being epidemically sick. We're dying at a much actually younger and younger rate right now. We live 10 years less than the Japanese or the Swiss. There's something really, really off happening. I think Bobby Kennedy captured that, getting 20% of the vote at one point. And then to me, and helping to foster that introduction, my theory has always been that Bobby Kennedy was the most MAGA person running, aside from Trump, because MAG is about taking on the corruption. American people, they want to be healthy, they want to thrive. But there's institutions, there's the swamp, there's corruption holding them back.
- [03:35]
Casey
Yeah, swamp doesn't stop at the Beltway's, Ed.
- [03:37]
Kelly
That's exactly right. And the biggest example of the swamp, in my opinion, the biggest example of the corporate cronyism and the corruption that threatens our country, is the fact that the biggest part of our economy, the health industry, demonstrably profits from a child being sicker for a longer period of time. That's the foundational issue that was talked about by President Trump and Bobby in this election. I think it's woken a lot of people up. It brought a lot of people to the Trump coalition. I think it's a great thing for the country.
- [04:04]
Casey
You know, here's what I think the biggest deal is about all that. And, you know, there's a lot to choose from here. Major changes in the way that Americans are experiencing health and thinking about health and thinking about the swamp in the biggest, biggest way possible. When you roll it back to Covid and you roll it back to those lockdowns, you know, I was one of those guys who had those. Those especially introverted friends on. On Twitter, when it was still Twitter. And these are the guys who were doing the warnings about, you know, this thing is real, it's in China, it's coming our way. And meanwhile, you have, you know, the swamp creature saying, no, you got to go to the wet market and you got to drink the bat soup or else you personally are a racist. You got to get down there this weekend and watching that transformation from a time when, you know, our guys in tech were like, we're gonna make the vaccine. You know, we're gonna pump people full of the juice. It's gonna help them, it's gonna save lives. Donald Trump, you know, like we saved lives. It was amazing. And that was a much different world from the world that we're in now. And a lot of those tech guys, you know, they're not disavowing the vaccine or whatever, but what they are doing is they're saying, you know, the way that we can help save American lives now, the way that we can make America a stronger, more where we can choose our own adventure. It's not by keeping people sort of plugged up to this machine what Bobby.
- [05:20]
Kelly
And Trump unpacked during the campaign. And by the way, I love that the tech guys are coming to mar a lago all the time. I think we're going have a golden age of innovation. But yes, I agree. The one thing they don't quite see sometimes and have a blind spot on is that we're being poisoned. We're literally being poisoned. I talked about the food industry being consolidated by the cigarette industry in the 1990s. It was very deliberate, literally. I don't know if you've heard this, but the two largest food companies and 1990s were RJ Reynolds and, and, and Philip Morris.
- [05:48]
Casey
Right.
- [05:48]
Kelly
I mean they took scientists to make our food addictive and have thousands of chemicals that they've co opted the scientific agencies like the FDA and the USDA to let them in. I mean our food is literally weaponized to be addictive. We're getting sick. And instead of letting that happen and then trying to out hack that with a bunch of jabs and a bunch of pills as a public policy matter, as a human capital matter, when 77% of Americans right now of military age are not able to join the milit of metabolic health. Let's get to the root cause which we can use a lot of innovation for. So that was really important on President Trump and his transition as you mentioned kind of the COVID policies. I think there's something just extraordinary that's happened in the past month. He appointed J. Bhattacharya to lead. That's right, the nih. And this to me, if I, you know, Bobby Kennedy is just an amazing pick but if I got it, if I were to pick my next favorite J. Bhattashari is something everyone should be paying attention to. This person was blacklisted. He was shadow banned on Twitter for questioning lockdown policies, even potentially question some policies of that came out of Fauci and Trump. I mean he was questioning that he was doing science. He was right on some, wrong on others, but that's science. And what President Trump said With the, with the J. Bhattacharya pick is we're going to look forward, but we're just going to get the facts. His instruction to Jay Bhattasharya is that he doesn't care. President Trump doesn't care about backwards. You know, if the science leads to disputing a policy made before, let's change that policy. Let's figure out whether it's correct that the American Medical association says that a six month old should be getting the COVID jab 100% of time. Let's get science on that and let's, let's adjust that. Let's study the lockdown policies and future pandemic preparedness policies. I can't express this enough, and it's shocking to people on the left, but President Trump's directive is a golden age of science. I've never in my meetings with the Trump administration and Bobby Kennedy have seen one word of ideology, one word of getting to a solution that they want. They are instructing J. Bhattacharya to scour the science to empower great scientists to get to the truth. And I think that's a great lesson from COVID I think it's a great policy going forward. The science has become absolutely just a PR mechanism for industries that want us sick.
- [08:04]
Casey
Yeah. So tell me what you think about this, because I think that, you know, this is kind of probably the biggest catalyst, in my opinion, of that change in mindset among the tech guys from Elon Musk on down is for years, you know, we heard transhumanism, good. We're gonna, you know, you just plug yourself up to this technology and you're gonna be able to transcend all of your human limitations. You're gonna be like a superhero. It's gonna be incredible. And, well, you know, we did start to get transhumanism, but it was not like this. You know, not, not taking my kid and, you know, Elon to the point where he says, like, my son is dead. Right, right. That transformation where they said, well, wait a minute, you know, technology, yeah, it can enhance, it can improve, but when people start to think that it's going to be used to actually destroy our humanity and it's not going to be your choice. It's going to be, we're going to take your children and turn them into something that they're not, whether or not you like it, that was just a sea change.
- [08:51]
Kelly
This is, this is, I think there's so much societal dynamics that we're brewing right now. And I think one of the big issues with health and metabolic health is that a lot of the things that threaten us, I think threaten us to an existential degree, are part of modern innovation. Like you look at actually artificial light, it's actually like really disruptive. Take a random example, it's really disruptive to our hormones. If you put a chicken coop, if you have a light on in a chicken coop, they lay two times more eggs. It's like that's just one input. You look at then all the technology being on our phone all day, the food that we have, all this disruption to our circadian rhythm, our chronic stress, again, these aren't necessarily good or bad things, but the incredible advances of modern society has led us to get, I think, detached from nature, detached from the awe and curiosity of our bodies. And in a weird way, the invisible hand of the incentives of these industries. From tech that wants our kids addicted on their phone all day, to food which wants kids addicted to the pharmaceutical industry that wants kids on drugs, there's really, I think, an invisible hand that's really been against kids.
- [09:51]
Casey
Yeah.
- [09:52]
Kelly
And I think the gender affirming care insanity where the American Medical association, which still makes all the billing codes that underlie 20% of our economy to this day, say that a two year old can get gender affirming surgery.
- [10:04]
Casey
Right.
- [10:05]
Kelly
Two year old, there's no age limit. I mean, you know that, that, that's, I think you trace everything. It's driven by potential guilt, but also this economic incentive. There's millions and billions and hundreds of billions and trillions of dollars to be made from getting a kid sick, from getting them addicted, from keeping them in fear. So yeah, I mean, I think this is something that the Trump administration just, just in modern society today we have to balance because we do want to unleash responsible innovation, but we have lost touch of common sense. And I think health has, has really said that. I don't think we're going to out hack this chronic disease crisis we have. We also need to just get back to basics. And I think, I think that's, that's the message that Bobby and Kennedy, Bobby Kennedy, Trump have really resonated on. It's like it's really a getting back to basics message.
- [10:53]
Casey
Yeah. And I think in that mix too is the spiritual stuff. You know, whether, whether you're coming at it from sort of a more crunchy or hippie standpoint or from a more traditional Christian standpoint. I've seen this, you know, being in LA and traveling around the country, I've seen both, both Flavors. And both of those flavors are present in the maha and the maga thing, where, you know, people saying, like, well, look, if you're. If you're spiritually unwell and you're not attending to those needs, then how can you expect to be really physically well? How can you expect to be mentally well? And when I talk to, you know, Christian sort of critics of technology, and they're like, well, shouldn't we just throw all this stuff away? Isn't it just demons take it out to the trash? It's like, well, you know, look, you got to start by taking out the trash in your heart, making this a place where God feels comfortable taking up residence. And if you're not doing that, then your approach to technology is going to be deranged. Your approach to, you know, trying to get through your day is going to be deranged. You're going to be looking to, whether it's food or whether it's drugs or whether it's technology, always trying to find a substitute or a shortcut away from that kind of harder spiritual practice. And I think that's definitely going to be in the mix going forward as technology does become more powerful, as drugs do become something that you can just reach for. Big Pharma wants to just have that ready for you, wants to substitute for that spirituality in your life.
- [12:05]
Kelly
I've been talking about this a bit to my sister. She's much more eloquent on it. But if we were ever to write another book, it'd be around the fact that at the end of the day, it's much more than a health crisis. We have a spiritual crisis in this country. I mean, when you look at the root causes of why we're getting so sick, it's that we've lost respect for natural cycles. We've lost respect for the interconnectivity of our, you know, beautiful world and environment and the soil. We've lost respect for the role of a parent, particularly a mother, you know, to nurture their children, to cook at home. It is, you know, coming from, like, Stanford, Harvard Business School, you know, women are driven into crazy anxiety if they have a kid and don't go straight back to work. It's considered totally, totally less than to care for children.
- [12:51]
Casey
Oh, the insane propaganda of, like, your life is over. This is a zero sum game. This is something inside you that's sucking your life force. I mean, it's been terrible.
- [12:59]
Kelly
And of course, of course, you know, everyone should be able to make their own decisions, do whatever they want. Of course, but, but, but, you know, working at Amazon, you know, making a hundred thousand dollars, you know, is, is, is, is a, you know, to trading, you know, and feeling guilty for not going straight back to work, which is what happens. Evidently there's, there's issues we have to unpack there. The fact of the matter is men and women are doing really bad right now. Women, 25% of them are SSRI, you know, all these promises of, and can't get off. It takes years to get off. If you're on it for six days, it takes a year to unwind it.
- [13:32]
Casey
That's insane.
- [13:32]
Kelly
So, so, so, so there's, there's something I think more core, you know, at the, at the end of the day and what the point of our book is. And I think, you know, hopefully what's resonated, you know, and I'm proud it's resonated with the conservative audience. I mean I think these issues and these, these issues that might have been considered woo woo or for a Berkeley seminar five years ago, I think they're resonating with conservatives because there's just a demonstrable human capital problem where we're just like destroying our children's future. There's also, I think really a spiritual issue. There's something we're losing sight of as a society and really failing as a society when 50% of teens are overweight or obese. I mean, what in a complete and utterance for conservatives who believe in personal responsibility. It's not personal responsibility that there's an epidemic of obesity among 6 year olds right now. The American Academy Pediatrics is recommending Ozempic for. They're going down to six. They're saying a six year old who's obese, that's a spiritual problem.
- [14:26]
Casey
Absolutely.
- [14:26]
Kelly
That we're poisoning our children so much. Parents aren't trying to do that. Right. So really. And I think this came through in a way people can't fully even define. I think something spiritual did come through when Trump and Bobby talked about this issue and he talked to a lot of women particularly, but other voters here, the gender gap closed for Trump independents, young people, you know, other demographic groups. I think it's hard to define, but did they feel it was actually spiritual In a weird way, I think Donald Trump could be our spiritual like help lead a spiritual revolution by focus focusing more on the root causes of health, which eventually gets to real societal dynamics of how we lost our way.
- [15:07]
Casey
People want that kind of leadership. And you know, in America it can be a little trickier because we don't do theocracy here. You know, we got a First Amendment and that's good. But it does mean that we have to put in a little extra work where it's not as simple as saying like, all right, we're just going to smush the church and state together. It's going to be one thing and everyone just follow that. It's a little more complicated for America. I think the payoff is good. You know, even if you go all the way back to the ancient Christian church, the model is harmony. You know, it's, it's not a strong state and a strong church becoming one. It's a healthy church and it's a healthy state. And when you have a leader in government who's able to kind of open up that aperture, I think people really welcome that, that, that spiritual thing that you're describing. It cuts across so many issues. It even goes, you know, I think this is super important to immigration. For decades, including in the Republican Party, there's been a strong, wealthy, well connected constituency that says like, well, sure, you know, legacy Americans, they're not doing so great. They don't have that personal responsibility. They're, they're wasting their money on the lottery. They're ways, they're eating the, you know, they're eating the bad food. They're, they're, they're hurting themselves watching too much tv. But it's okay because we're just going to bring in, you know, we're going to bring in new Americans and those Americans are going to be hard working. Those Americans are going to be willing to hustle and they're not going to be sort of fat, dumb and happy. And what happens is, yeah, you bring those immigrants in and then they just become subject to the same spiritual illness and the same patterns, destructive patterns of culture and public life that the Americans who already here are, that isn't going to solve the problem and that changes the way that we think about so many things.
- [16:35]
Kelly
That's such a good point. I mean, you mentioned we're not a theocracy. You know, as conservatives, we don't want to top down, mandate, you know, how people should act. I think this is another thing that we've really unpacked at the Maha movement. We actually have a nanny state right now of trillions of dollars of incentives that are incentivizing people to be sick, that are incentivizing people to poison themselves, that actually have the USDA recommending added sugar for two year olds, that the USDA recommending an ultra processed food diet, 91% in ultra processed food, being healthy for kids, and then trillions of dollars of incentives over the past 10 years towards this crap that's just food. Then of course we have mass incentives coming through to jab kids, to pill them. 40% of teens are on a pharmaceutical right now. You know, 65% of American adults have a chronic condition. There's 4.6 billion prescriptions written for Americans each year. So those are all based on trillions of dollars of incentives. So I think something that came through with the MAHA agenda is we don't want to actually tell people what drugs to take, what food to eat, or what their spirituality should be. But we want to stop incentivizing people to poison themselves and then drug themselves, which is what we do. Now, if we could do that and actually just clinically, if we clinically look at the $4.5 trillion trillion dollars a year that we spend on health care and ask how can we steer that money to unleash human capital, to reverse disease, to contribute to American thriving? Inevitably, I think those things go to things that harden up our body and harden up our body's ability to actually experience nature and commune more with God, quite frankly. I mean, you're going to get to more incentives, better food. Instead of foreign and Chinese owned pharmaceutical companies, which we're sending currently hundreds of billions of dollars to. You're going to inevitably get to kids being outside in the sun. You're going to get to incentivizing more exercise right now in a school. Kids get less time outside than a maximum security prison. You're just going to clinically, if you just follow the science on what can unleash human thriving, you should, and I don't think anybody would disagree with this, then you should follow that science and then incentivize what helps that. So I do think it's not mandating that everyone becomes more spiritual or mandating that anyone eats anything. We should have. I'm a libertarian. I think drugs should be legal. I think Coca Cola should be legal. I think cigarettes should be legal, make it all legal. We should not be recommending and subsidizing harmful things. We should be incentivizing and advising people to do good things. Like, like, like there's, there's nothing ideologically wrong with that.
- [18:54]
Casey
Well, and it, what it teaches is that we actually do have control and the American people don't themselves have control over the trajectory of technological research and development. For so long that has belonged to such a small class, almost a cast of Americans who don't really think of themselves as Americans. They think of themselves as sort of, you know, global citizens, or, you know, maybe they care more about their consciousness than they do about their humanity. And they've pushed technology in very specific and pretty narrow accelerated direction of development. And that's one choice. And we've got many other choices we can take. And for Americans just to see that, like, hey, you know, we can actually all sort of share in this deliberative process as citizens, recognizing what the costs and benefits of these approaches are, and choose a direction of acceleration, a direction of advancement that's actually going to strengthen our form of government, strengthen our way of life, and ultimately strengthen our humanity instead of undermining it.
- [19:51]
Kelly
It's so simple. But when it comes to health, I really, you know, I think there should be an emphasis to channeling technology to get back to basics. I mean, we're talking about all these hacks to drug ourselves out of our sickness. But I mean, I actually think that. I don't even think Elon understands this. Have you seen his robots? These incredible robots?
- [20:10]
Casey
Yeah, yeah.
- [20:11]
Kelly
So you can actually use the optimist. You can actually, I dream about those on farms. You know, the biggest problem of why we have an industrial agriculture culture system where we have to use all the pesticides, it's not actually higher output, it's actually very low output compared to regenerative farming. But it's cheaper labor because you're able to line everything up. But then because everything's unnatural lined up, you need to spray all these pesticides. If you have a regenerative farm with a robot, I mean, it's just an idea, but you can actually use technology to get back to natural processes. That's how farming happened forever. So I would just, you know, I think as we approach a new age of agriculture, a new age of. Of innovation, what innovation looks like in science, you can actually, you know, use it to get back to basics instead of out hacking these terrible things that have already happened. You got to get back to, you know, basic principles.
- [20:56]
Casey
I think that's absolutely right. And, you know, I talk with guys sort of across the spectrum of the movement here, and, you know, a lot of the criticisms are like, this technology is dangerous because it can be so dehumanizing where they're going to replace us. They're going to, you know, wipe out our humanity. They want to turn us into just sort of floating consciousness in the cloud. Yeah, that door, that door is open. And whose choice is it to walk through that door? And how is that choice going to be influenced by. If what we look at right now, dehumanization is already happening right now. You don't need, you know, a planetary cyborg taking over, you don't need Skynet taking over in order for there to be dehumanization. Just the things that you ticked off. What are we doing to our bodies, what are we doing to our food? What are, what chemicals are we addicting ourselves to? What kind of relationship with our technology is putting us in this kind of passive, self alienated state? All those kinds of things are dehumanization. And we have already seen the fruits of those kinds of patterns, that kind of culture, that kind of spiritual approach. And if you start chipping away that kind of stuff and you actually use the power of government not to, not to dig people deeper into that hole that they're already in, but to kind of let some fresh air in and let them breathe that experience. A alone, I think is going to be enough to get people onto, onto a page where they say, like, hey, you know, humanization is happening. You know, nature is healing and when you start having that experience in a very short period of time, it can change your mindset and can break those kinds of habits.
- [22:18]
Kelly
I agree. I mean, again, it's, it's very. These are actually pretty bold, big, complicated topics. And I just. The topics Casey and I have been thinking about and I think, I think what's beautiful about the Maha movement, what kind of is happening with Trump and Kennedy, is it channeled some of these philosophical ideas, I think into a cohesive political movement. I really believe that voters are grappling with these issues and by channeling the anger around, you know, what's happening to kids, by channeling this feeling of dehumanization, by channeling this feeling that we're on a conveyor belt where we're being poisoned and drugged, by channeling maybe some valid fears about technology, I mean, you know, which is a big part of our health mix. Honestly. It's not that we shouldn't have technology or innovation. We should, but it's understand the costs and benefits. It's just head in the sand to say that the incredible, historic, unprecedented technological innovation doesn't have drawbacks. That's the entire point. It's good, we should continue progressing. But this incredible pace of innovation has led to an attack on ourselves in every way. Again, food, sleep, chronic stress, you know, circadian rhythm, everything, it's all, it's all kind of having drawbacks and we should continue innovating, but we should be really aware when it comes to health, when it comes to the incentives of health that we should be ameliorating and addressing these drawbacks of modern society that are attacking our cellular, our micro, cellular health and microbiome. I mean that's really kind of this theory that's coming together and it's innovation with an understanding and an emphasis from our medical system of protecting our cellular health. Because what's happening today, an average human, we're just completely. The pace of change of all of our inputs is just, we haven't been able to catch up. It's been 100 years and just so much has happened. And that's kind of the core of what my sister and I are talking. It's like we have to just at least it's not good or bad, we just have to like address it, we have to be aware of it.
- [24:14]
Casey
Yeah, I think people are grappling with it and one of the ways in which it is hard for people is I think there's, there's a widespread feeling of guilt and complicity, of like, I got taken for a ride and I was sort of tempted by these big institutions that didn't have my best interest at heart, didn't have my kids best interests at heart. And I sort of allowed myself to believe, I allowed myself to believe the propaganda. I allowed myself to think like, well, you know, it'll just be easier if I just like max the vax for my kid or whatever it is, you know, give them the junk food, just prop up the iPad well so that I can have a peaceful dinner or whatever, you know, and people are starting. It does bite that feeling of like, wait a minute, are we the baddies? You know, and in a culture that for generations has been like, guilt is ridiculous, we're over that now. If you can dream it, you can do it. Follow your passions, indulge yourself, you know, make sure that you have me time. All that sort of self esteem programming that really set people up for failure in a major way into encountering this kind of technological innovation where they come at it with this sort of, you know, guilt free, responsibility free mindset. Of course it's not going to end well. And so I think a lot of Americans, you know, and it is going to take some, it's going to take some forgiveness, it's going to take some grace and it's going to take some openness and honesty about saying like, hey, you know, we're not perfect and we are apt to make mistakes and we do need to sort of relearn kind of Culturally and personally in our lives. How to, you know, how to, how to, how to be adult enough and mature enough to not lie to ourselves about what's at stake when it comes to our relationships and our children and all the rest.
- [25:45]
Kelly
I think you mentioned one important concept I've been thinking about, which is forgiveness.
- [25:50]
Casey
Yeah.
- [25:51]
Kelly
I think the, the reality is that we're existing in an extremely suboptimal system right now where leaders in these institutions that we've been told to trust have made terrible, horrible mistakes. When you go to what our kids are eating and what our dietary guidelines are, then to the pharmaceutical standards, which are clearly not working. You know, there's never been a chronic disease, pharmaceutical that's ever lowered rates of the chronic disease is actually trying to treat even Ozempic. They're projecting more obesity. I mean, Bobby Kennedy obviously has talked about the vaccine schedule. It's absolutely criminal to me that you can't even ask a question that you. It's, it's not even the, the argument itself, it's the fact that we're even asking a question is being attacked by the scientific authorities, which is, which is to me a just total attack on science. We should be able to ask questions about every important input that we're putting into our child's body. And especially if it's important, especially if it's consequential, especially if it's a good thing, we should be continuously objecting that to science. What I think we need to do on all fronts is we need a mass unwinding and a mass reconciliation of terrible guidance on many different fronts that experts have given us. You literally take any institution, the military, education, pharmaceutical products, food, housing. I mean like, it's like everything, everything has been like totally co opted and is like probably like exactly wrong. I've talked to people in the food and pharmaceutical industry. They don't disagree when you, it's like, is it good that the US Food companies make demonstrably less healthy food and when they send the exact same products with veteran grades to other countries, is that good? No. Is it good that we can't even export our food to Europe because there's so many toxicism? No. You know, do you actually think the fact that we're 4% of the world population and 75% of worldwide pharmaceutical profits is getting us a good ROI to the farm? No. It's like nobody actually disagrees with this, but they're worried about liability and they're worried about actually just the disintegration of trust in institutions.
- [27:44]
Casey
Well, it's already gone, baby.
- [27:46]
Kelly
Yeah, I think it's already happened and I think, I think we do need to create a process is where criminal behavior should be dealt with. But we need some grace and I think to some degree understand that this has been a multi front handholding of getting into a terrible system on a lot of this stuff and frankly like kind of not look backwards but look forwards and like fix this system. Because nobody agrees that this is working. It's, I believe it's existential with what's happened to our children's health. So we need like a mass come to Jesus moment with our institutional leads.
- [28:14]
Casey
Yeah, I mean we're talking about basically like a truth and recovery conciliation commission. And you know, I mean obviously like apartheid is bad, but what's going on right now is, is with, you know, any race, any, any identity, any group is affected by this. It's happening to everyone.
- [28:28]
Kelly
Just as a thought expert, just as a thought experiment, imagine if it was true that one of the vaccines that was recommended and basically forced on every single living human American did turn out to show data that it was really wrong.
- [28:42]
Casey
Right.
- [28:43]
Kelly
Like what would that, like imagine how many careers and how many lives and how much like there's, whatever you think of it, there's huge institutional aversion to even asking that question which we're seeing. But we should be asking, we should be asking the hardest questions. It's the same thing with food and the dietary guidelines and what we've recommended with ultra processed food and seed oils. I mean what if you actually turns out that seed oils really are a very harmful ingredient? That's, that's the top source of American calories right now. Yeah, we've been told they were heart healthy and safe. The institutional force to protect these bad decisions is unrelenting and breathtaking. So we need to unpack that.
- [29:22]
Casey
Yeah, we do. And look, you know, it's important to fix the laws, but laws alone are not enough to get us out of this. And so that, you know, I think that all by itself is the reason why really shot selection is so important. Important right now. Which policy tweaks matter the most. How do you start cutting into this beast?
- [29:41]
Kelly
I start doing it. Yeah, you do it very quickly. I think you do it very quickly. So here's kind of my four year MAHA vision. The let's work backwards in 2028. We want both sides of the aisle fighting on a Maha framework. We want both sides of the aisle talking like this. We want both sides of the aisle talk about health Care. The goal of health care is to reverse chronic disease. And this is very important, is very important. The Republican platform said the goal of health care is chronic disease reversal and prevention. That's never been said. That's not the goal. It's chronic disease management is 95% of the health care. So you've actually opened up this new door. You already have the Biden FDA trying to ban food dyes before Trump gets in. You've got the Biden FDA going after other food related safety issues. Who would have ever thought that, right? I actually. So from my perspective on wanting America to be healthier, I actually think if Maha is successful, if it's just high level successful in changing consciousness to a new political paradigm where basically the Overton window is how do we make Americans healthier, which actually is a profound change in 2028, how do we do that? We need to just get unrelenting wins, Low hanging fruit for Bobby and Trump. There's so much to, to be honest, I'm agnostic on where to do it. I just want wins, wins, wins. So let's talk about some of the wins that President Trump and Bob have talked about that can get this momentum. Number one, transparency, mass transparency. We do not have access into FDA studies that underlie our drug approval process. We don't have access to, you know, studies on Pharmaceuticals, the NIH, which we're paying $50 billion a year for. We don't have access to those data sets. We, you know, we did all the research that we're conducting, all these debates we're having. It's because we don't even have access to the research. We should be open sourcing API. Everyone can research themselves. Everyone can do the data analysis themselves. Everything we currently have. And we should steer going forward, all academic research to be totally academic. Freedom to be root cause, understanding why we're sick. And we're going to prioritize the most fearless and most taboo questions possible that people don't want to ask currently, we want people to ask those going forward. So, so just a revolution in science of transparent data that gets to policy. If we have unimpeachable data from the NIH showing that glyphosate is harmful or that atrazine, which is this chemical that's banned in every other country that Alstrom was, was right on, which does actually change gender of frogs that drink it in the water, you know, we have unimpeachable evidence, not just new research, but actually just reviewing what's been done in other countries.
- [32:02]
Casey
It's Going to surface an agenda that.
- [32:03]
Kelly
That then impacts policy. So resetting science of the nature is very important. The fda mass deregulation, actually it's deregulation. I think we talked about it cost $2 billion to get a drug through. Big Pharma has strangleholded the regulatory process to not have any type of innovative. There's no allowance of innovative blood testing or innovative therapeutics or or even preventative screenings. The PR novo screens and blood testing and functional medicine type stuff. It's not approved by FDA. It costs $2 billion to get to that. I think by last got it cost $5 billion, you know, to get kind of new blood biomarkers through like as a thing.
- [32:38]
Casey
So it's just like so much regulation is just a costly game that is.
- [32:41]
Kelly
It'S a constant game to this day revises against preventative cancer screenings. So, so it's. So it's actually unleashing some more competition and deregulation in the FDA. Getting conflicts out of the FDA which is 75% funded by pharma for their drug approval department and then also having the FDA really do a hard look at the food, food chemicals which we have 10,000 chemicals that have been self police, self waved into our process. The FDA said last week they don't know all the food chemicals in our food because the industry could just put them right in. It's totally fair, not ideological to post market review of the 10,000 chemicals in our food that are banned in every other country. Before any policy, let's just figure out what's going on there and take action on the ones that are poisoning us. And then cms. This is what I love about Elon and Vivek. We're talking about this continuing resolution bill, these boring things they're now tweeting about. Cms. It's the biggest department in government. This is Medicare Medicaid Services. 1.5 times more money flows through that than the whole defense and intelligence budget. This drives 20% of our economy. Let's get the codes unbundled from the American Medical association, which is a pharma lobbying group. We outsource our economy, our 20% of our economy, all health billing to a pharma lobbying group that again literally suggest gender transition surgery for 2 year olds. That's not a joke. It's like let's untangle our standard of care. And you know, if the standard of care from the AMA Medicare codes was that if a kid was depressed instead of getting an SSRI right away, you know, incentivize more Movement for them, better food, getting out in the sun. You could, you could incentivize that. We'd have a different world. You could actually incentivize those things. So it's been a flexibility on the CMS codes. So those are some of the key principles that are being talked about. And I think you can just, we, we're building a list of just 50 ideas you can just start punching out to achieve those principles to get wins.
- [34:29]
Casey
You know, it really shows how management brain can infect everything.
- [34:33]
Kelly
Right.
- [34:34]
Casey
If you, if your idea of government, if your idea of political life is not citizenship driven, it's management driven, then pretty soon you're looking at health. And how do you look at it? Well, it's about managing illness. It's called the more you want to manage. The more you want to manage the thing that's supposedly bad, the more you're incentivized to see that thing everywhere and define that thing everywhere and ultimately to create that bad thing everywhere so that you can just keep on managing it.
- [34:57]
Kelly
One of the most shocking things the past month has been that the industry, the pharma and such come in and they don't argue that what they're doing is right. Yeah, they argue that's going to hurt the economy.
- [35:10]
Casey
Yeah.
- [35:10]
Kelly
To change.
- [35:11]
Casey
Right.
- [35:12]
Kelly
They actually acknowledge the point that they're profiting from kids being sick. They don't dispute it.
- [35:17]
Casey
It's just going to be more costly.
- [35:19]
Kelly
It's gonna, it's gonna hurt the job. No, no, they actually say it's going to be less costly. But that, that because we're going to spend less on health care, given what Bobby Kennedy is saying, it's going to cost them.
- [35:29]
Casey
Yeah.
- [35:30]
Kelly
It's going to cost them their growth and cost them their profits. By making people healthier. No, making people healthier is a, is a, innovate, is a government efficiency solution. You know, we're going bankrupt as a country right now because we're getting so sick. So, so, so, so it's, it's absolutely true, you know, that if we get Americans healthier, those are lost patients for the sick care system. So. So, so they actually argue that flat out directly. They say if more Americans are healthy, we're going to lose out on money.
- [36:00]
Casey
Because they're lifelong patients, basically. You get them from even before they're born all the way through. Yeah, man. But you seem optimistic.
- [36:10]
Kelly
I am, yeah. I think there's a lot of darkness here. I mean, I think this is an existential. I think it goes to what we're talking About. I think what we're. I think the reason we're arguably at the greatest period of progress and optimism for America, but also everyone is depressed and sick and anxious to a large degree, to a historically high degree, is because we do have so much opportunity, but we also have existential threats. That's my framework on it. And I think we have more ability to destroy ourselves and also more opportunity. And I think the two ways that came through in this election, why I thought it was the most important election of my lifetime, is I think we're closer on the big two existential threats than we've been in my lifetime, which is nuclear war and. And a health collapse. I do think we're on the verge of a food, agriculture, and health collapse potentially. And, you know, I think that is very heavy. I'm extremely optimistic. The other great part about America is that an independent media system is burgeoning. People talked about this. Ron Johnson invited my friends and me to the Senate, where we eviscerated the Senate itself for being corrupt. And senators stood up and clapped. I mean, this is a great country, and this is part of the process. So the fact that Donald Trump has channeled these issues and is talking about getting poisons out of our food, is talking about regenerative agriculture, is talking about making America healthy, talking about making his legacy item getting kids healthier, that's awesome. And it's very optimistic. And he's got great picks.
- [37:36]
Casey
Yeah, it is awesome. And the crazy thing about Donald Trump is I think it really does matter that this is a guy who's been around in America and has been a public figure for long enough that when people think back and people still remember. And, yeah, we got young guys who don't remember, you know, they've only been around for a relative blink. But there's still a lot of Americans, Americans who are hitting their prime right now, who. Do you remember the 80s and the 90s, it wasn't paradise. A lot of these problems were being sewn, you know, but in hindsight, you can look back and you say, like, there is a way that we can get back.
- [38:12]
Kelly
Absolutely.
- [38:12]
Casey
And. And America's fall from the peak, you know, Cold war is over. Sole superpower, infinite money. Economy's going nuts. Everyone wants to come be in America. And the spectacular decline from that height did happen so quickly. You can't blame it all on the terrorists. You can't blame it all on Russia and China. We know that there's deeper stuff going on, and we remember, you know, that in our lifetimes, we weren't in this prediction him 100% to look at a guy like Donald Trump and say like. And he saw it all too. He saw it all go down. And that continuity of memory, of collective memory, that has spiritual power and it leads directly, I think, to the ability to actually stand up and make those changes you're describing.
- [38:53]
Kelly
Yeah, just from my small vantage point seeing inside the transition, we are on the verge of more activity and vigor from our government than at any point maybe in American history, at least as the New Deal Deal. There are so many people. I mean, it's inspiring to be seeing Elon there. Marc Andreessen, like people from every industry. Like, like the billionaires. But that's just not one measure. But like you've got like former Democrats just crowding. They're living there. You know, just take Elon, the fact that he's just living there and trying to help and people from every single industry are trying to, I mean you do have an assemblage of very smart voices, diverse voices, people voices that aren't necessarily right on everything.
- [39:31]
Casey
Right.
- [39:32]
Kelly
But Trump's, Trump's brewing that he's having people disagree but, and everyone's all hands on deck right now giving ideas. The framework for the ideas that are all going through Trump is how do we drive bold change. It's shockingly non ideological. It really is an administration and was a campaign about getting to root cause issues, getting the military industrial complex handled, getting this crazy border thing handled, getting healthy health handled, you know, getting, getting, getting our economy in a pro growth mode. It's actually about big concepts and that's the type of directive coming down that I'm seeing from Trump. It's just like, how do we go big here? How do we make big systemic legacy, making change. So I think you're going to see a flurry of activity come Inauguration Day.
- [40:14]
Casey
I think it's really a moment of a refounding. You go back to the founding, the founding era. Those guys did not agree on everything thing. They had some vehement disagreements, but they agreed on the basics and they understood the moment that they were living in. And I, I agree that's, that's what's going on right now. Kelly, thank you so much for joining us. God bless you and good luck.
- [40:30]
Kelly
God bless you. Thank you.
- [40:31]
Casey
All right.