Ep 95 | Texas vs. the Cartel: The DEADLY Border Showdown | Greg Sindelar

Summary

Zero Hour with James Poulos: Episode 95 – "Texas vs. the Cartel: The DEADLY Border Showdown" Featuring Greg Sindelar

Release Date: April 27, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 95 of Zero Hour with James Poulos, host James Poulos engages in a profound and insightful conversation with Greg Sindelar, the CEO of the Texas Public Policy Foundation. The discussion delves deep into the pressing issues of immigration, the influence of technology on society, education, and the broader conservative movement’s response to contemporary challenges. This episode captures the essence of America’s struggle to regain its footing amidst political turmoil, economic instability, and technological upheaval.

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1. The Dawn of a New Conservative Era

James Poulos opens the episode by highlighting the optimistic sentiment within the conservative movement, asserting that the era of oppression is ending and a new chapter of proactive governance is beginning.

• Greg Sindelar expresses his optimism: “I feel like, I don't know, 50 pounds lighter when I walk around the weight of the world. And what's really makes me feel good is it's not just the sigh of relief of like, oh, man, thank God we don't keep having this oppressive regime over top of us. But conservatives actually seem to want to do something about it for a chance.” (01:25)

• James Poulos notes the transformative character of this era, especially for younger generations: “It's very inspiring, very inspiring stuff.” (02:10)

Sindelar emphasizes the preparedness of the current conservative administration compared to previous years, attributing their effectiveness to lessons learned during the "wandering in the wilderness."

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2. Immigration and Texas' Approach to the Border Crisis

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on the immigration crisis at the Texas-Mexico border, the influence of cartels, and the broader implications for both Texas and the United States.

• Sindelar highlights the challenges faced by Texas: “At Del Rio, Texas... They're getting thousands of people coming across a day. It was just overrunning these places.” (14:07)

• He criticizes the Mexican government’s role in enabling cartels: “Mexico is a failed narco state... They have ceded 30, 40% of their land to these cartels.” (15:00)

• The discussion touches on the potential for military intervention against cartels: “Would America have every right to use military force against these cartels? I say absolutely they do.” (16:54)

• Greg Sindelar stresses the interconnected futures of the U.S. and Mexico: “Our futures are intertwined. And if we can't get Mexico back into being a functioning state again, then we will continue to have these problems...” (16:54)

Poulos and Sindelar explore the implications of border security, the flow of drugs, and the economic pressures necessary to compel Mexico to address cartel influence. Sindelar underscores the importance of economic leverage: “We have to put economic pressure on them to do the right thing.” (16:58)

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3. Technology’s Role in Society and Government

The conversation shifts to the pervasive influence of technology, its benefits, and the existential threats it poses to society and governance.

• James Poulos reflects on the dual nature of technological optimism and fear: “It's too easy to be a critic...” (30:05)

• Greg Sindelar discusses the balance between technological advancement and human flourishing: “The technology should serve humans and human flourishing, and it can't be a replacement for humans and community.” (31:05)

They debate the potential of AI and quantum computing, highlighting both their promise and the societal anxieties they generate. Sindelar emphasizes the disconnect between technologists and the general populace: “When you talk to a normal person about artificial intelligence, their number one concern is what does it mean for my job and what does it mean for my family.” (25:07)

Poulos brings attention to practical technological advancements that directly improve everyday life without alienating individuals: “Boom... figured out how to do supersonic commercial air travel without the sonic boom.” (41:05)

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4. Education and Workforce Challenges

A critical discussion revolves around the deficiencies in the education system, workforce shortages in essential trades, and the role of technology in education.

• Greg Sindelar points out the alarming statistics in Texas education: “In Texas alone, we have a... 50% are on grade level when it comes to reading, 58% on grade level when it comes to math.” (48:42)

• Sindelar criticizes the focus on trivial certifications over essential trades: “We have massive workforce shortages... by the end of this decade, we'll have 10,000 shortage in plumbers and more in HVAC and electrician.” (48:42)

• Poulos introduces innovative educational models, such as AI tutoring: “A tech entrepreneur... he's working on a school that uses AI tutoring... allows them to do other pursuits.” (48:42)

They explore the necessity of reforming the education system to prepare students for a rapidly changing job market and the importance of vocational training.

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5. The Intersection of Technology and Spirituality

The dialogue navigates the essential role of spirituality and purpose in an age dominated by technological advancements.

• James Poulos asserts the need for spiritual education: “What's really freaking people out is... how do we live?” (51:36)

• Greg Sindelar emphasizes human dignity and purpose: “Humans need to be productive. They need to contribute to their world and their communities.” (37:04)

The speakers argue that technological progress must be balanced with spiritual and community-oriented values to ensure human flourishing.

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6. Conclusions and Future Outlook

In wrapping up, Sindelar and Poulos share their optimistic visions for the future, grounded in purposeful governance and technological stewardship.

• Greg Sindelar expresses confidence in the direction of Texas and the nation: “If government returns to its core purposes, then the future is very bright.” (59:43)

• James Poulos cautions against setting rigid expectations but acknowledges the potential for positive change: “But you got to recognize the human dignity part of this.” (38:19)

Sindelar envisions a future where governance serves the people effectively, free from excessive debt and bureaucratic inefficiency, fostering an environment where both technology and human purpose can thrive.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• “It's very inspiring, very inspiring stuff.” – James Poulos (02:10)

• “If Mexico can't be a functioning state again, then we will continue to have these problems...” – Greg Sindelar (16:54)

• “The technology should serve humans and human flourishing, and it can't be a replacement for humans and community.” – Greg Sindelar (31:05)

• “We have massive workforce shortages... we'll have 10,000 shortage in plumbers...” – Greg Sindelar (48:42)

• “Humans need to be productive. They need to contribute to their world and their communities.” – Greg Sindelar (37:04)

• “If government returns to its core purposes, then the future is very bright.” – Greg Sindelar (59:43)

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Key Takeaways

1. Optimism in Conservative Momentum: Despite ongoing crises, there is a strong sense of optimism within the conservative movement, driven by proactive leadership and a desire to implement meaningful policies.

2. Immigration and Border Security: Texas is at the forefront of combating the cartel-driven immigration crisis, emphasizing the need for economic and military strategies to restore order and security.

3. Balanced Technological Advancement: While technology offers immense potential, it must be harnessed responsibly to serve human interests without compromising community and spiritual well-being.

4. Education Reform: Addressing educational deficiencies and workforce shortages through innovative approaches, including AI tutoring and vocational training, is crucial for future prosperity.

5. Spiritual and Community Values: Incorporating spiritual education and fostering a sense of purpose are essential to navigate the challenges posed by rapid technological and societal changes.

6. Hope for the Future: With focused leadership and a return to governance that genuinely serves the populace, there is a promising outlook for both Texas and the broader United States.

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Conclusion

Episode 95 of Zero Hour with James Poulos presents a compelling dialogue between James Poulos and Greg Sindelar, offering a thorough exploration of the intersection between conservative policies, immigration challenges, technological advancements, and education reform. Through insightful analysis and thought-provoking discussions, the episode underscores the importance of balancing progress with humanistic values to ensure a prosperous and harmonious future for America.

Transcript

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[James Polis]

He's keeping Austin weird, but now he's expanded into Washington, D.C. greg Sindelar joins us next. I'm James Polis. This is Zero Hour. La la la la la la. Greg Sindelar is the CEO of the Texas Public Policy foundation, leading the charge on conservative policy, building its headquarters in Austin and even now coming into D.C. greg, welcome.

[Greg Sindelar]

Thanks for having me, James.

[James Polis]

So they say it's the dawn of a new golden age. Are you feeling golden?

[Greg Sindelar]

Well, I guess Trumpian does feel very golden, but, yeah, it feels great. You know, I feel like, I don't know, 50 pounds lighter when I walk around the weight of the world. And what's really makes me feel good is it's not just the sigh of relief of like, oh, man, thank God we don't keep having this oppressive regime over top of us. But conservatives actually seem to want to do something about it for a chance.

[James Polis]

Yes. Right. Well, you know, it is this kind of the characterological transformation that I think, you know, especially younger generations are kind of, you know, they've grown up under this cloud. And just the thought that maybe the cloud will begin to part before, you know, they're our age. It's very inspiring, very inspiring stuff.

[Greg Sindelar]

It's weird to say our age. Like, I still feel like I'm like 25, even though I'm far from it. Yes.

[James Polis]

You know, I mean, I'm, you know, 26 and a half years old myself and, you know, you gotta look out for the younger guys.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah, that's right.

[James Polis]

What's interesting to me is there's, you know, there's always been this kind of crazy utopian strain in, in America, you know, culturally, in sometimes in religious life, political life. And there's that temptation to kind of take that sunny optimism and go too far with it.

[Greg Sindelar]

Right.

[James Polis]

And what we've got right now is such a sudden change. And, you know, you got Glenn Beck over there saying, like, this is a revolution, It's a legal revolution. We're doing it the right way. But it is this kind of sea change. And it's very tempting under those circumstances. To just suddenly get your own supply and, you know, making sure that we don't.

[Greg Sindelar]

That never happens in the political world.

[James Polis]

Oh, no, no, no, no. Never, Never. We. We would not be the first. At the same time, you know, there is this groundswell and there is a real hunger for, you know, health. Physical health, mental health, spiritual health, political health, and finding that, that harmony, that golden mean between getting too high in your own supply and staying, you know, in the dark corner of, you know, whether you want to call it black pilling or. Or doomerism or, you know, just. Just locked into that. That mindset of, like, there's a threat and you have to fear it.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah.

[James Polis]

And if you don't fear it, then you're screwed. You know, like that. We got real accustomed to doing it that way.

[Greg Sindelar]

100.

[James Polis]

Do you feel like we have enough time to kind of get acclimated to this new environment without just kind of, you know, going crazy in Candyland?

[Greg Sindelar]

If we have enough time? It's going so fast. You look at how much the Trump administration has done in just a few short weeks. I don't know if there's enough time because you can't keep up with it all. Every day there's new eos and. And, you know, I think it's. The amazing part is the preparation that has clearly gone into this administration is completely different than what it was in 2016. And I think the four years kind of, you know, wandering the wilderness has helped focus them on. These are the things we have to go after. And so I think it's, you know, it's like anything, you have to get reps, right. And you have to get used to it. And I think. But I think everyone's ready to be optimistic again about America. And so if Reagan was like, it's morning in America. Well, it's a new day right in America under this president. And I think people will get acclimated to that. And you're already starting to see that if you watch the Super Bowl, Even the way that they responded to the president, the way that a lot of it went about, it was very different than it was a few years ago. I was watching a documentary from 2021 a couple nights ago, and they kept referencing the BLM riots and all these other things.

[James Polis]

And.

[Greg Sindelar]

And I think people are ready to move past Covid, ready to move past all the negativity, move past Taylor Swift. Move past Taylor Swift. Clearly, we're moving past Taylor Swift getting.

[James Polis]

Booed and sort of looked over.

[Greg Sindelar]

Even she can get overexposed. Right.

[James Polis]

Yes, yes. This is, you know, let, let, let it be a lesson to us all. Do not become the Taylor Swift of 2025.

[Greg Sindelar]

That's right.

[James Polis]

Yeah. Okay. I mean, I think that bit about, you know, you got to get your reps in, you got to start, it's, you got to do that warm up set, you know, if you really want to like, have a good day at the gym, you got to get that warm up set in. And I think that's right. It is, it's, it's, it's shocking really to see even like the New York Times just struggling to keep up with the pace of events to the point where, you know, your, your sort of garden variety conservative circa, you know, 10 years ago would be like, whoa, you know, too many EOs. Like, this is, you know, this isn't what government's supposed to do in a small government. Are those days just gone now?

[Greg Sindelar]

Yes. And I think that the conservative movement kind of in its own reckoning right now as it's realigned. And that kind of Mitt Romney neocon wing that was really, was the force behind the conservative movement in 2008 no longer holds any sway. And I don't think that most of them have recognized that yet. But you see that in some of the institutions in the movement that they are trying to figure out how do we be effective in this new environment? And the ones that have figured that out and have moved on I think have been more effective. And the other ones are kind of stuck and they're slowly dying if they don't change.

[James Polis]

Yeah, I mean, you know, for, for our friends on the left, this is like the nightmare come true. Techno feudalism, techno autocracy. You know, what's going on, like you've changed, suddenly you're doing things all the time.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah.

[James Polis]

How do you think this, this interplay between kind of Trump world and Musk world or tech world is gonna develop over the rest of this first hundred years? There's obviously, you know, there's some, some areas where there might be a little bit of friction, but it's also, you know, this, this is an extraordinary time. And it's not just because of the kind of pent up political frustration, but because, you know, we're, we're being pulled, like it or not, into a direction where, you know, the, the framework of if you don't fear the right things, we're doomed right into a new situation where we have to start thinking about how we're going to function in a world where actually the dog does catch the car.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah.

[James Polis]

Where we sort of do, like, actually dismantle the administrative state and where, you know, we do have technology kind of like taking care of more. More and more problems. You know, it's. It's kind of more like the problems of a utopia instead of the problems of a dystopia. Right.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah, I think that's right. And it's going to be really interesting to watch because I don't think anybody outside of Elon Musk and his. What does he call him, his band of nerds or whatever that are invading every agency in D.C. could. Could do what they're doing. You need this type of technology, and you need the people who know how to harness it to actually go in and do it when. When the DOD can't pass audits and hasn't been able to pass audits for years, and people are just like, well, we just don't know where the money's going. And this is happening all across the federal government. Well, you need very sophisticated technology to help you follow those money trails. Right. Because money doesn't lie. At the end of the day, there is a. An. On the general ledger. Right. Like, there's a. There's a credit and a debit. You can follow. Follow that and then put that together and figure out what is actually telling you that these agencies are doing the thing that. I think where you'll see some more of that tension is, okay, once you kind of dismantle the administrative state. Okay. When you're trying to rebuild a lot of these institutions, I don't think you need. You have to be careful not to let technology rebuild it for you. Right. Algorithms can't lead the way of how you actually run government. I think at the heart of everything is still people. And we can't lose the sight that all of this is about human flourishing. And we want humans to flourish. We want Americans to flourish. And so they have to be leading and rebuilding these institutions once Elon and others dismantle them.

[James Polis]

Yeah, yeah. And it remains to be seen sort of how that touch point between money and technology is going to develop. But just, you know, looking at those budgets, obviously USAID is sort of in the hot seat right now, and it's probably going to be the Pentagon next. So much of what's going on with those slush funds, with the magic money just, you know, pouring into, whether it's like Chelsea Clinton's coffers or wherever, so much of that, it's not just about, you know, good, good government or good governance. It's about Credibility. Because when, when the. Our own government is not telling us where the money's coming from, why it's reaching these gigantic proportions, where it's flowing to and for what purpose, people start coming up with their own answers and answers like, oh, the money is going to kidnap children so that we can feed them to the aliens on the New Swabia base in Antarctica on the other side of the ice wall.

[Greg Sindelar]

Sounds like a really good sci fi book. I like that.

[James Polis]

And it's a fine between sort of insane conspiracy theory mongering and just trying to, just like trying to get some nugget of information out of a regime that does not think you have any right or entitlement to any information.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah. Which is one of the most fundamentally un American things that happened. And the fact that we had lost sight in this country, that government, we serve the government as opposed to the other way around, where it serves us is to me the most exciting part about this is if we can actually dismantle this and have the transparency in the sunlight where we can have faith again in some of these institutions, which is important for civic life, I think we can kind of get back to, you know, it's kind of like you, the optimism you're talking about. We can get back to that optimism and that, that American spirit that has driven us to be, I think the force for good in the world that we have been.

[James Polis]

Your predecessor, Kevin Roberts.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah.

[James Polis]

Went off to Washington. He hasn't become a swamp creature yet.

[Greg Sindelar]

No. As far as I can tell, far from it.

[James Polis]

Yeah. It's so easy right now to focus on Washington for all the obvious reasons. But at the same time, so much of what I think is really going to be kind of like the most needed and durable change. The opportunities where it's. You're not relying on Washington to make all the pain go away is going to be happening at the state level 100%. And there's no doubt that Texas is, you know, right up there partly just through circumstance, but partly through of course, the, the hard work of well intentioned and diligent guys like yourself out there, right up there at the top of the stack of states that are kind of leading the way on saying, you know, a state government can be active and robust without, without turning into a monster as well. So I want to talk about just a few kind of like state level issues, international significance, because you got your, you know, you got your hands all over this stuff. First one, obviously immigration, we got the sort of birthright citizenship is, is now on the chopping Block, which, you know, for. For a lot of the guys in the movement, this has been multigenerational, you know, struggling and saying it's not racist. It's actually just, you know, you had sort of one important sort of constitutional law case that. That came down the pike quite a while ago now at this point. And that was sort of used to. To open the floodgates legally. Now that's up for question. Nevertheless, you got this huge border. You got the cartels down there. You got, you know, tariffs flying around coming out of Washington. It looks like suddenly a more adversarial relationship with Mexico or one where, you know, in classic Donald Trump fashion, you're like, I'm going to start the negotiation way over here, and you're going to have to fight to get three clicks closer to where you are. What's it look like on the ground for Texas? What does Texas have to teach us about how to sort of right size immigration or migration or whatever you want to call it?

[Greg Sindelar]

That's a really good question. And I think first and foremost, there was a sigh of relief in Texas when it at least came to the border, because we knew we weren't going to have to fight our own federal government when it came to actually enforcing the laws.

[James Polis]

Yeah, I mean, they're like tearing down your chicken wire and pulling the alligators out of the Rio Grande. You know, it's like, come on, guys.

[Greg Sindelar]

And you talk to ranchers and landowners and people who live down some of these communities. Have you ever been to Del Rio, Texas? Like a town of like 35,000. They're getting thousands of people coming across a day. It was just overrunning these places.

[James Polis]

System working is designed, right?

[Greg Sindelar]

Exactly. It was very overwhelming. And it went from where they had great relationships with Border Patrol to where they barely saw them. And Texas had to jump in and do whatever they could. And the fact that we pretended for years in this country at the federal level that nothing wrong was happening, at least on the. I would say from the moderate side to the left side was one of the most appalling things. It made you feel like you're crazy, right? Like, what's that movie Zoolander? Which is like, am I taking crazy pills? So you felt all the time you're like, oh, my God, what is going on? Because if you just went down there and you saw with your eyes, you knew that this was not right. And so Texas had had to jump in. And we spent billions and billions and billions of dollars trying to just stem the tide a little bit. But we learned from that is Mexico is not a good faith actor in this. And I'm talking about the government of Mexico. And I know they're very upset by the President saying that they are tied to these cartels. Well, I am here to tell you they are, I would say, at this point, mostly a failed narco state. They have ceded 30, 40% of their land to these cartels. They let them run anything that they want to do. And it goes from the local level all the way up. You know, Amlo, who likes to say that he's not. Has no issues or was not in bed with the cartels. Well, he's visited Sinaloa many times. He's visited El Chapo's mother many times. He and paid his respects. The Sinaloa cartel was out there getting out the vote for him. Right. Doing good go TV stuff for him. And so it's absolutely horrific what is happening. And the Mexican people are suffering because of it. And Texans and Americans are also suffering because of it. And what we have to understand on the Texas side, and really American side, is our futures are intertwined. And if we can't get Mexico back into being a functioning state again, then we will continue to have these problems and we'll continue to have to pour an immense amount of money and lose an immense amount of American lives until they get their act together. But that's gotta come from the American people. There's only so much pressure you can put on from the federal and state side.

[James Polis]

So what does that look like? Does this make Mexico great again?

[Greg Sindelar]

It'd be the 52nd state right after Canada. Well, I think you have to tie security and trade is what happens. And so Texas, you know, Mexico is Texas largest trading partner. Mexico and the United States, obviously, massive trading partners. If you want. If they want to continue that, then there have to be certain security considerations as well. And the economy of Mexico is dependent on the United States. And the President understands that. And I think the ambassador to Mexico, the new ambassador to Mexico, he understands that. I think Marco Rubio, Secretary Rubio, understands that. So I think there's a new tenor in how all this is going to unfold. And Texas is going to be helpful to this administration in making sure that we put economic pressure on them to do the right thing. And that's ultimately the most that we can do. Would America have every right to use military force against these cartels? I say absolutely they do. They have wreaked havoc not only on the illegal immigrants, but obviously on the American citizens for the drugs they brought in the violence they brought in and the corruption they brought in. And so I think it is absolutely an invasion that's happened at our southern border led by the cartels. I was very happy to see the president designate them as terrorist organizations. The governor of Texas has done similar things, and we need to treat them as such. They are adversaries that will do whatever it takes to make as much money as they can. They don't care whose lives they destroy, and they're destroying communities across the country.

[James Polis]

All right, let's think about this, though. So, you know, a little background. I'm increasingly. I think of myself as like a southwesterner. Okay. Where do I spend all my time? It's like Southern California, Arizona. No offense to New Mexico, but they're kind of on their own planet. And Texas. And, you know, I know I was just teaching some kids about George Washington's farewell address in Austin the other day, and. And, you know, Washington, he doesn't even mention the states in this farewell address. It's like, this is America. This is your country now. And don't give in to factionalism and don't give into regionalism. And so, you know, I'm not here saying, like, I think of myself as a southwesterner politically because, you know, all these. Those three different states. So different politically. California, Arizona, Texas, but just sort of, you know, culturally, like, it is kind of this one sort of geographical area, and there are sort of these.

[Greg Sindelar]

I mean, Texans, we might take offense to that. We're kind of our own thing.

[James Polis]

They might. But, you know, but where's, you know, like, Texas is, you know, don't. California, my Texas, it's all starting to become sort of. Sort of one thing. You look at all the cities that are really growing. I mean, LA is. Is a special case, a sad case now.

[Greg Sindelar]

It's really sad. Yeah.

[James Polis]

Phoenix blown up, obviously. Houston enormous. You know, we can talk about sort of what's going on there. What's my point? My point is from the standpoint of someone who's kind of like culturally sort of, you know, Sunbelt, red state, southwesterner, it sounds good on paper or in the abstract to say, you know, the cartels of the bad guys were Americans. It, you know, it's time to fight the bad guys. But when you're thinking about in real life, you're thinking like they're gonna fight back and they're already sort of straddling the border and, you know, nobody wants to, like, go outside one morning, whether they're in Long beach or Tucson or San Antonio, and The cartels are in their neighborhood fighting the US Government. How do you avoid that? Can you avoid that?

[Greg Sindelar]

I. Well, can you avoid it? That. That's. I don't know if anyone knows the answer to that question, because I could say that you. You do nothing and you probably won't avoid it. Right. We've already seen cartel violence spill well into our borders. I think the way you try to avoid it is it comes from the economic pressure that you put on Mexico, and hopefully that you put them in the right frame of mind where they're like, it is worse for us, you know, it is worse for us as a country to be partnered with y'all than to. And go against the United States than to be with the United States. So we have to go with the United States, otherwise we will probably cease to have the country that we want to have. And so I think that it starts with that, and that's what you hope. And then you have to really clamp down on the southern border so that they can't make it past there. Right. And so can you avoid it in your communities? You can't, because the cartels are already in every community. And so I don't know that you can completely avoid it, but I think you have to start putting them in a box. And that box starts with a lot of economic pressure.

[James Polis]

Yeah. So, you know, a lot of this is obviously about keeping the people out.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah.

[James Polis]

And sending the ones back who shouldn't be here in the first place.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah.

[James Polis]

And that's, you know, that's a political hot potato for obvious reasons. You know, this is a major undertaking. It's not like you can just EO and poof.

[Greg Sindelar]

Like, you know, lots of manpower, billions.

[James Polis]

It's a lot more difficult to get them.

[Greg Sindelar]

Countries have to expand than it is.

[James Polis]

To let them in.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah.

[James Polis]

Right. But, you know, the other chunk of this is keeping the drugs out. Why is it so hard to just keep the drugs out? Is it. Is it because of how good they've gotten at bringing them in or is it. Is it. You know, the other argument here is like, well, you Americans just really can't face the day unless you consume some kind of powerful drug.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah.

[James Polis]

Whether it's coffee or, you know, meth or whatever. It's. I mean, we can make light of it. But look, you know, people have been hurting for a long time. And the. I gotta say, the pressure that our. Our regime has placed on the kind of ordinary white guy in America, it has been intense and it has stripped away guys dignity and it has Left them feeling like they're, you know, can't be a priest, that's a child molester, can't be a CEO, that's like a greedy, you know, you stealing from the poor, you know, can't be a soldier, you're just going around killing brown people. Can't be a father. That's the patriarchy. That's bad.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah.

[James Polis]

You know, what, what do you do? And for a lot of guys, the answer is, well, you, you become addicted to painkillers or opioids or meth or whatever. So we got, you know, this, this persistent problem of demand, and then we have this persistent problem of supply. And, you know, maybe, maybe some of our tech guys are going to stand up and say, like, oh, you know, we can just, you know, we'll just turn the border into a zone where we can actually get eyes on everything that's going in and out. Maybe that feels a little too much like a surveillance state. Maybe we don't have much of a choice. What do you think the answer is?

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah, well, I think, I think it's okay to have surveillance at the border. Right. Like, that's one of the places where you absolutely want that. It's different than if the, the government is having. Every street corner has a bunch of cameras. Right. It's very British and kind of have the CCTVs everywhere. But I think we have, as part of our sovereignty, we have every right to know who is coming in and out of our country, especially if they're trying to enter illegally. I think to your first question on what do we do about the flow of drugs, I think if anyone knew how to absolutely mitigate that, then it probably would have already happened. But it's such a complex issue, as you pointed out with the demand issue here in the United States. And then, you know, the very motivated people you say, you know, all the mean things I said about the cartels, one thing I will acknowledge is they're some of the most brilliant logistical business minds out there. Right. And so that is human ingenuity.

[James Polis]

And cartel's a place where ordinary white guy can thrive. You know, he's got a future.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah. I don't know how you get into those job postings, but I think what you really hit at that's interesting to me is the war, especially on young men. Right. And we've seen this in Texas, where about a third. I'm trying to, I want to make sure I get the stat. Right. It's a third of kids, once they have graduated high school, are not in the workforce, they're not in the military, they're not in some sort of higher education, extended vocational education even. And so where are they? And I think that's at the core of everything we should be asking ourselves in our civil society is how are we losing our kids? And what does that mean for the future of our country? Because we can do all of these other great policy initiatives. We can try to close down the border, we can, we can do all these economic things, but if, if we're not preparing our children to thrive, then this will all fail. And that, I think, is one of the most reprehensible, immoral things that's happening in the country today.

[James Polis]

So let's talk about the ultimate drug, technology.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah.

[James Polis]

You know, some people are like, this is where, this is what we're losing, the future.

[Greg Sindelar]

I know I don't have my phone on. I feel a little itchy, naked.

[James Polis]

How much technology is too much? You know, lots coming into Texas. I think it is fair, you know, for, for people whether on the left or the right or somewhere in the middle, to sort of, you know, wonder are we just going to gamble it all on like. Well, you know, we tried, we tried having a democratic republic. Like we kind of whiffed on that. We tried having, you know, the imperial presidency. Like that didn't work out so well. We tried doing the bureaucracy thing and like, you know, still dissatisfying. Maybe we just like effort. Let the robots do it all. You know, what's going to stop us from going in that direction?

[Greg Sindelar]

We don't end up in the Matrix. That's a, that's a really good question. Right. And, and I tell, you know, I know a lot of, a lot of friends and, and people I know that are in kind of this upper echelon tech world, and we talk a lot about quantum computing and artificial intelligence and things like that and things that I think are really important to the country. And these are battles that, for good and evil between the United States and China is like, do I kind of take you back to some of the space races? Right? Do you want Russia to win or do you want America to win? Well, as an American, I want Americans to win. It feels like the chance for that being good is better. But what I, what I also tell them is that they misunderstand where the general populace is and they have a massive education problem in front of them. Because when you talk to a normal person about artificial intelligence, their number one concern is what does it mean for my job and what does it mean for My family. And so they're worried obviously about their jobs being, you know, thrown away. And people say, oh, well, there'll be new jobs and all this stuff. That's fine 30 years from now. But if you're in the, if you're in the middle of that transition and suddenly you don't have a job tomorrow, well, that's a real big deal for, for you and your family. Right. And then obviously get into the exploitation of, especially young girls, I would say, online, and how AI can, can create childhood sex abuse material and all these other things that can be very exploitative. Exploitative. Exploit. Exploitative. Exploitative of, of children. And, and so where technology is going at such a rapid pace is not where the general population is. And so your question of is there too much technology? Well, you were at a weird inflection point where it kind of feels that way. It is invasive of everything we do. I can't think of anything I did today that I didn't use technology at some point. And as we go into the future, what does it mean for every job? Like, do we even need to be here in person, face to face? And what does it mean being human? Right. When you can recreate this and watch it somewhere else? And when your life is happening, whether it's on a phone or screen as opposed to in the real world, what does that mean for human existence? Community, which is the heart of being conservative. It's, it's a very interesting time and scary time. I would say to most people, and I would say a lot of our tech friends probably don't think in that terms because they see just the massive potential and opportunity and the national security interests, but the average person is very nervous and scared.

[James Polis]

Yeah, well. And you know, to be fair to our, to our tech friends, like, you know, a lot of them are like, look, you, we tried it your way.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah, that was a fair argument.

[James Polis]

Your way. Just taking a look at immigration. Yeah, you know, we tried it your way.

[Greg Sindelar]

You.

[James Polis]

Oh, we're going to do E verify. Oh, no, we're going to do. We're, we're just going to have like, work visas or whatever. We're going to, you know, and, and, and it's just been this extended drama with pretty much no one happy.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah.

[James Polis]

So they're like, look, just send everyone back and we'll replace them with robots and I'll live happily ever after. And you know, like, of course there's that voice inside being like, one does not simply replace everyone with robots and live happily, but at the same time, you know, ultimately people are going to shoot their shot. And if the people you. You want to win are sort of, you know, throwing up bricks and airballs, and then these other guys who are maybe taking us one step in a scary direction are sinking their shots, it's tough in America to argue with success like that.

[Greg Sindelar]

Oh, 100%. And I think what Elon Musk has. Has done with a lot of these folks have done is incredibly remarkable. I just think we can't lose sight of the fact. And this is where I really respect someone like Elon, because I don't think that he has. But we can't lose sight of the fact that the technology should serve humans and human flourishing, and it can't be a replacement for. For humans and for community. And J.D. vance, I think, is far more articulate on things like this than I'll ever be. But that, I think would be the concern that most Americans feel is, are we ready for that drastic a change in our everyday lives? Maybe. And I actually see the promise. I think it could be really amazing what artificial intelligence can do. The quantum computing is stuff that really scares me. Right. Because if China beats us to it, then what does that mean for all of our data and things of that nature? But we can't lose sight of the human aspect of all this.

[James Polis]

Yeah. You know, to me, I think I've earned my stripes as a critic of technology over the. Especially the past few years, like in that book and some other places. And there are reasons for that, you know, and it's important that people are not so alienated from their technology and from their technologists that it just feels like they're watching gods fighting in the clouds or whatever and reduced to this tiny status. You don't want that. But, you know, let's. I mean, we've gone through such an extended period of critics and explainers and experts kind of just lecturing people. You know, it's. People are burned out on it. And I can tell that, like, even, you know, two guys talking about what we should do. You know, I like that you like that, and a lot of people still do like that. But at a certain point, it's like, okay, but who's actually doing anything? Who's doing the thing? And that's our tech guys in large measure. And to me, this is a moment where so many Americans are thirsting to get beyond criticism and explanation, to get back into the world of doing and to recognize that looking at a problem from the standpoint of actually doing the thing is going to put you In a different cast of mind than looking at the problem from a remove, from a critical remove. It's so easy to be a critic. It's too easy to be a critic. And when you take that attitude or that standpoint of being a doer, I think what you start to see is that, okay, you want accelerationism, tech guys, cool. You want progress, okay, fine, but which direction? Who's gonna choose which way to steer the ship? Because you can blast off into a brick wall, you can blast off in a ravine, you can blast off into the void, never be seen again, you can aim the ship in all kinds of wrong directions. And that question of statecraft, when you go back to the Greek word for statecraft, it's the same government, governance, governing is the same. Shares the same root word as cybernetics. And that means who's steering the ship? The kibernetes. Right. Is the. Is the helmsman of. Of the boat. And so I think where the conversation needs to move is like, you know, it's not standing in the path of progress, quote, unquote, and saying stop or slow down or whatever. You know, that's always going to be part of the mix of the conversation is at what pace? But. But yes, we do need to move quickly, maybe more quickly than we're comfortable with because of how long we've allowed this rot to set in. And when you're operating and you got the guy on the table and you open him up and there's stage four cancer in there, you know, go. Well, you know, don't want to move too fast here. No, you get in there and you zap away as much of that thing as you can. So I understand that. But, you know, it's too often we've. We've allowed ourselves to be maneuvered into this position where, you know, it's. The only disagreement is should we love it or should we hate it?

[Greg Sindelar]

Yep.

[James Polis]

Taylor Swift. You have to love her or you have to hate her. Anyone in the middle? Not part of the conversation. Same thing with technology. No. Like, this is our new God. This is going to save us. It's going to save the world. It's going to save you. You're never going to have to work a day in your life you own nothing and you'll be happy. Like all that kind of stuff. Or no, it's not God, it's the devil. It's going to destroy your soul, it's going to kill your children, it's going to ruin Earth. We're going to be living in a nightmare yeah, well, you know, surely, surely we have enough agency as human beings and surely we have enough soul that we don't have to become a slave either to this unhealthy self destructive love or this unhealthy self destructive doomerism. Right?

[Greg Sindelar]

I think that's absolutely right. And one of the things I do love about our tech friends and what they're doing is they're providing that optimism. Right. And they are doing something right. It's very American. It's very, it feels like you're, it's. You know, we always think of America's out on the frontier, like, you know, with our wagons kind of like, you know, figuring out this rough, untenable land. Right. Well, they're doing that in a, you know, almost a theoretical world to me anyways. You can't always like see it. Right. But the, what they're, the problems they're talking about, the things that they're using to do it is very much the cutting edge and very much a. To your point earlier of like, which way is it going to go? We don't know. But to your point, when someone says, this is going to be so great, you're never going to have to work a day in your life again. You're going to have everything you want. The first thing I think is, well, but what's my purpose then? And then, so then you start losing like the human purpose. So the people creating all this have a ton of purpose, Elon. And all these folks are filled with purpose. We want to make sure the rest of humanity is filled with that purpose too. And don't lose that. I don't think that we will. I think we always figure all this stuff out. Every time we've hit these inflection points with technology, we're like, oh, I don't know if humanity will survive this. Somehow we push through and we do survive. And I think we should be pushing forward at a rate probably than we're more comfortable with. That's usually when we're at our best, is when we're slightly out over our skis. But it just comes back to me. We have to recognize the human dignity part of this. And at the core, humans need to be productive. They need to contribute to their world and their communities. And if we don't allow them to do that, then what's the purpose of all this? Advancement?

[James Polis]

Yeah. Yeah. And for me, this is also like, you know, weird is good, but too much weird is bad. You know, one of my favorite. I mean, this is, you know, not just me but one of the, one of the most perceptive weirdos in American political life, Hunter S. Thompson. Oh yeah, he was sent down to Miami, to Palm beach by Rolling stone in the 80s to cover the Roxanne Pulitzer trial. So this is, you know, this is deep, deep Americana lore. And he was down there, you know, kind of failing to understand the assignment as he enjoyed doing. And so a long segment in his sort of write up of the insanity surrounding the Pulitzer trial, which at the time was, you know, it's the 80s. Your status in society is purely dictated by how much money you have. If you don't have any, like, you're out of the conversation. That was kind of where he was coming from. And you know, this was a guy who was sort of there in Aspen in Colorado before it became Fat City as he liked to call it. He ran for sheriff of Aspen, shaved his head so he could call the, you know, the guy with the buzz cut, my long haired opponent. This is fun stuff, right? So he was down there in Palm beach and he's writing about his weird adventures down there and talking to this, to this guy who felt like, you know, the sort of the rich people, the celebrities, the decadent Pulitzers taken over, taken over the town. And he had like no role. There was no role for him. He was just a normal, ordinary guy and he was getting squeezed out of society. And the way that this guy put it in complaining to Hunter Thompson was I feel like a dog took my place. And what we're seeing now for a lot of people is they feel like a bot is taking their place. That's, that's the bad planet, that is the dangerous direction. Like people look at something like air travel. This is one of my favorite examples. Now air travel in 2025 should not be worse than it was in 1995.

[Greg Sindelar]

Exponentially it is.

[James Polis]

And yet it is. And, and everyone's just kind of staring that in the face, being like, you know, wait a minute, you guys are talking about curing cancer, building a God, uploading our consciousness into a collective direct democracy on Mars. And you know, and, and I'm afraid to, to take a, you know, a regional flight because I don't want my luggage to be lost. I don't want my, my d. I pilot to fly the plane into the ground. I don't want a mid air, you know, all this sort of parade horribles. I. One day it would be nice to not have to take my shoes off. Like, come on. Well, one of the better startups out there is a company called Boom. And what they're doing, they. They just figured out, like, I think, you know, as of this taping, like today or yesterday, how to do supersonic commercial air travel without the sonic boom.

[Greg Sindelar]

Interesting.

[James Polis]

Right. Now, this is an example of a huge technological leap forward, but one that, let's face it, you know, from the standpoint of the ordinary American who has to do the travel thing, and so many people, especially during the holidays, you know, it's sort of like this great national nightmare, this sadomasochistic ritual. From the standpoint of that American, like, this is the kind of technological advancement that has an immediate, direct, positive effect or, you know, can, if things. Things go well on their ordinary life.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah.

[James Polis]

You know, something where they don't have to sacrifice their humanity, where they don't have to worry that, you know, China's behind it all. Sort of psychologically manipulated. It's not a psyop. It's not, you know, it's. It's. It's not sculpting you into this kind of human goo that will be used to power the machines. It's just got sort of a common sense, practicality, and it's understandable in terms of basics, sort of human flourishing, greases the wheels of commerce, makes it easier for people to see each other, makes it easier for families to be together, you know, and that's just one example of how, you know, all technological change, all these great leaps forward that were being promised, they don't have to make us more alienated from our technology, and they don't have to make us, you know, on the other end of the scale, sort of like perversely too intimately tied to our technology. We have these options. And in America, you know, I think for a long time, most of what technology has done for us in a bad sense has been either weaponization or entertainment, you know, all of the innovation. Where is it going? Well, it's going into, like, better ways to kill people or better ways to, you know, to make sort of people get lost in pleasure.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah.

[James Polis]

And there's a third option. You know, there's at least a third option which is just kind of improving the ordinary quality of life.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah.

[James Polis]

Which. That's not everything that life's about. But after 25 years of, you know, most Americans going like, it just keeps getting worse. Why does it have to be this way? It doesn't have to be this way. That's such a fruitful area for. For.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah. Technology that brings us together as opposed to pulls us apart is. Is not as well invested in at least it doesn't seem that way.

[James Polis]

Yeah.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. And the thought of. Yeah. Being able to live in New York and get to L. A. In a couple hours as opposed to, like, was it like six hours or so?

[James Polis]

And best of all, we never have to hear about those. That train network that they keep trying.

[Greg Sindelar]

To, you know, God, the train stuff drives me insane. Like, why don't you have trains like Europe? I'm like, what are you. We're way bigger. Come on.

[James Polis]

Because of the.

[Greg Sindelar]

We've got the Rocky Mountains and we.

[James Polis]

Got all impact reports, guys. Like, I saw, you know, we saw this movie in California.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah.

[James Polis]

I think they laid about two miles of track and just kind of, you know, sank into the hedges and hope that nobody noticed.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah. Well, now it's going to be investigated, so they're going to look into it.

[James Polis]

Total, total debacle.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah.

[James Polis]

Easier to just tunnel underground, you know, which Elon's doing.

[Greg Sindelar]

Boring.

[James Polis]

Yeah.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah.

[James Polis]

All right. I want to close out with this, which is, you know, you're. You do a lot on. On the immigration thing. You do a lot of tech stuff. Another one of your big issues is education and coming out of the tech thing. You know, many Americans, whether they're tripling down on I gotta get pumpkin into the best college I can get her, you know, whether they're doing that or whether they're doing the state school thing or the community college thing or the homeschooling thing or, you know, now or the remote school thing. So many. So many options, you know, school choice, great. But sort of overarching. All that is like, well, what the hell are we actually? What is there to educate kids to do? What kind of future are we putting them into? A lot of parents, whether they're, you know, top tax bracket or bottom tax bracket, are just sort of like, look into either side, wondering who's going to give them the answer. Do you have that answer?

[Greg Sindelar]

Do I have that answer? No, unfortunately, I wish I did. Well, and I think that's the problem, you kind of touched on this earlier with education, is we're losing, you know, generation of kids. Right. You know, just in Texas alone, we have a. What, 50% are on grade level when it comes to reading, 58% on grade level when it comes to math. So even if we have jobs, like, are they actually even prepared to do those jobs? I think is a really good question. And we have massive workforce shortages. All this technology, you know, I'm not sure if you can. Maybe you can. Can you Create a bot to do all the plumbing, electrical work in your house. I don't know if you can or can't, but we're a ways away from that. And so there's still a lot of what I'd call like hard skill work that is needed. And we have massive shortages in this state for. And we're not training them for it. We try to do all these CTE programs in our schools, but they end up giving out certificates in floral design and things of that nature, which there's nothing wrong with that. God bless all the florists out there, but we probably don't need as many as we're producing. Right. But within, by the end of this decade, we'll have 10,000 shortage in plumbers and more in H vac and electrician. And those are the things that really make an impact on everyone's everyday life. When you can't find a plumber, when you can't find an electrician, that really affects your life. I live here, I live in Austin, Texas. My AC goes down in July. I'm not trying to wait a month to get it fixed. Right. Yeah, I cannot inhabit that house for, for quite a while. So. So we're just not preparing and we're not preparing kids just for those types of jobs and. But we're not preparing them for life either. You know, we've kind of lost sight. You know, a lot of what's being taught in our schools is it's, it's just anti American. I would, I would say mostly. And there's no appreciation for, you know, what Western civilization has done for the world and it's done for our country and why it's important and why it's brought the freedoms that we all say we want. Even if you're the most anti American Marxist, right. Like you talk about freedom a lot, but I don't think you understand what it actually means and you don't understand its roots and what Western civilization has done for it. And so the way we're educating kids, I think it's time has passed. It hasn't really changed a whole lot in the last hundred years. And it probably is time to change. I was talking to a tech entrepreneur last week and he's working on a school that uses AI tutoring. That's each kid is different and so each kid has their own individualized AI tutorial. And he's finding that by doing this, actually the number of time in the classroom is reduced each day. And so that allows them to do other pursuits whether they're athletic or artistic or whatever, they can pursue other things and kind of rebuild those creative reps that we're losing, I think, in a lot of society. And so school choice is great. I tell people all the time it's not a panacea that's fixing education, but the reason it's important is it changes the leverage in the system. Right. It gives the leverage to the parents because they control the money as opposed to the administration, which has tight control over it right now. And that's why it's important. But we have to fundamentally change the way we're educating kids if we're going to realize the potential of every kid, which is, I believe, our moral obligation in this country, in our state.

[James Polis]

Yeah, I mean, there's just so much here. Like you look at the AI tutor thing and you know, we definitely don't want the machines to become a substitute for schoolwork. But we also know that so much of what schoolwork is and has been in America for a long time is busy work, you know, preparing you for a lifetime of BS jobs, you know, and if you can use technology to comb that stuff out of the experience of kids, I mean, what kid, especially what young, young, young man, young guy wants to just sort of sit there and watch the flame inside of him flicker out as just another serving of busy work, you know, preparing you for a life under, under human resources domination, you know, nobody wants that, you know, so that's, that's clearly seems like one avenue that's, that's promising. You mentioned the floral design. One of the things that killed me as I was doing research for, for Human Forever, I was reading a book called AI Superpowers by Kai Fu Lee, who I think was the head of Google China back when that was a thing. And he's sort of trying to figure out how the US and China can both sort of understand how to welcome our new robot overlords, basically. And it was either in that book or his more recent book where he saves for the end this chapter, which is like, so what are we going to be doing anyway when, you know, after the, the, the Golden Robo dawn and he's, he's throwing out some examples of what kinds of jobs people might still have. And one of them is like, you know, basically Walmart, Walmart Greeter. And then from there it descends quickly into like, well, people will do things like, like consult on refreshing your closet seasonally, you know, and like really bringing a sense of like, whimsy and excitement to like changing your wardrobe, you know, it's like such a, like a huge drop off into this ravine. Because it's not just like economically hollow in some sort of way, it's spiritually hollow.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah, it's this weird veneer you're trying to put over humanity. Say, like we're gonna add some whimsy to your wardrobe that's gonna make you feel better. Yes.

[James Polis]

You are going to be the spritz bottle of like, fragrance that we're going to mist on top of this sort of robotic landscape. It's just, just, you know, it's spiritually not good enough for, I think a lot of Americans and for, for people as a whole. I can't speak to the Chinese. That's a story for, you know, another day, another year, I don't know. But gosh, you know, so, so my, you know, maybe it's a bonkers idea, maybe it's not. What I see coming is, you know, what we're really going to need more of in education is spiritual education, is religious education. You know, America's still a majority Christian country and, you know, you got plenty, plenty of guys on the right sort of spending all day arguing on the Internet about, you know, it's like the, it's like the, the Civil War movie meme where he's like, what kind of American. It's like, what kind of Christian. Right?

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah.

[James Polis]

You know, this is a place where if you want to go off and start a cult or, you know, indulge in various heresies, go for it. You know, you might even get rich. So that's the way America's been for a long time. But, but people are increasingly seeking spiritual authority, spiritual guidance, especially with regard to technology. You know, who are you going to trust to tell you how to actually integrate these things into your life or not? Where are the lines? How do you tell, how do you know if you're starting to drift in the wrong direction? You know, these are spiritual questions.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah.

[James Polis]

And you can't really take what the technologists say at face value on these matters. You know, in the same way that if, if you ask the CEO of Coca Cola how much Coke you should drink every day is going to be like, as much.

[Greg Sindelar]

Why would you stop as much as you possibly can.

[James Polis]

Why? You know, so you can't trust technologists. You can't, you know, you can't trust. I mean, the. Our woke, you know, friends tried to do this. They're like, well, you trust us, you know, we understand what true justice is. We are the priests of this new religion that we're creating. We're going to tell you exactly how you can and can't use technology and what words you can say to people on the street and how you have to act in the workplace. We're going to tell you how to behave everywhere at all times. You know, they tried that. They shot their shot, and it didn't take. Didn't really work. America was like, we thought about it. We sort of tried. Was a weird time under. Under Covid, you know, lockdown. We. We went into your sort of, like, alternate universe, and we found it lacking. So we're going to. We're going to say no. So again, you know, who do you trust? What kind of education do you need in order to live the way we were created, to live in the midst of this incredible technological splendor? And I think it's, you know, it's going to come from churches, and it's going to come from a kind of education into a Christian understanding of human nature, understanding of what order is. You know, what the kind of golden mean is, how, you know, zinging off into a doomerish direction is bad for your soul. Zinging off into, you know, chip me, daddy, you know, give me the VR headset. I want total dopamine all the time. Like, that's not good for your soul either, and it's also not good for your body. Now, a lot of people would say, like, well, you know, I. Have you looked at what's going on in the churches lately? You know, child molestation and corruption and. And okay, sure, there's a lot of room for improvement for all of us. And in America, I think it is true that a lot of frustrated, devout Christians have come to a place where they're like, look, we tried democracy, we tried bureaucracy, we tried the imperial presidency, and what did we get? We got a lot of sin and we got a lot of mismanagement, a lot of bad government. We need Christian theocracy in this country. We got a clean house. You know, Christ is king, and we're just. We need everyone in government to be a Christian, and we need an established church. And just very quickly going in, you know, in the Oliver Cromwell direction. Well, you know, I mean, we can have that sort of theological, philosophical debate, but this is the United states of America, 100%.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yep.

[James Polis]

There is a First Amendment. You know, we can't reach for that tool here. That's not the way we do things. And I think there are good reasons for that. So you want that, you know, you want a healthy government, you want a healthy church, rather than a strong church, strong state fused into one thing. I don't think that works in America. So it's a little more, you know, it's, it's a little more nuanced for us. But one place where, you know, I think we really do need the churches to figure their game out is in providing spiritual education that Americans can trust about how to live well amidst all this technology. It's not going away. Maybe it'll all blow up. Maybe, maybe Skynet will exist, you know, the robots, Terminators will be, you know, but I, you know, I don't, I think we, we'd be more freaked out if that was actually going to happen. And I think, you know, what's really freaking people out is wait, what if, what if it's, it's actually just fine, you know, what if it's, what if we're on the good timeline, you know, then how do we live? And so I think that's going to be a huge part of education because yeah, you know, if the New York Times can't keep up with the news anymore, how is a school going to keep up with, you know, oh, we got to teach you how to code. Oh, wait, you know, coding is worthless now.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah, you've got, can't use Python now you can do this.

[James Polis]

You got Y Combinator, the biggest startup, incubator, innovator accelerator in, in Silicon Valley. Still they put out their one sheet on what they want to invest in what they're looking for for startups. And it is explicitly to replace jobs at the hundred thousand dollar and above level to automate those jobs. So you know, if you're hardworking, immigrant, hard working, you know, fifth generation American electrical engineer, you got that degree, you think that you're set and suddenly like, you know, the guys one level above you are like you are taking away your job.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah.

[James Polis]

What do you do, you know, where do you go? And trying to keep up with that pace of change just seems like increasingly like a fool's errand for education. Obviously you want people to be, you know, literate, numerate, the basics, you know, so which a lot of, that's just kind of self respect and feeling like you have some, some point of contact with, with the world.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah.

[James Polis]

But that spiritual piece just seems so important now.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah. And I, I think it's because regardless of what you believe in. Right. And I say as a Catholic, I always tell my, some of my friends, I'm like, you know, I just, whatever the Pope tells me, that's just what I do. Which is not the case. But in fact, I'm on record of disagreeing with him on several things.

[James Polis]

But you don't have a little Pachamama doll at home.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah. I remember one time I got a call from one of the Catholic news agencies saying, like, what do you think about the Pope's stance on Paris climate accord? And I was like, oh, man, you want me to go on record about why I disagree with the Pope? I was like, okay, let me think through how I do this. Right. But I think you're absolutely right, because people are looking for purpose. Right. I've seen stories on atheists that attend church, which doesn't make sense to me. Right. Because it's about community and it's trying to find out why am I here. I think everybody at some level is trying to figure that out and what is my purpose. And we talked a lot about that in the technology realm about. Well, people and humans still need purpose in life. And as we go into this new world where maybe more and more is automated for us and the jobs that were there are changing drastically, I think you're absolutely right. It's going to be needed more than ever because we need purpose. We need purpose that is higher than just what we are doing every day. And that's why humans are incredibly complex. I know some really good people who have done some really bad things. And so we have to understand, and we have to be able to work through all of that and understand the redemptive nature that we have in Christ and what he's brought forth. And we have to also understand how to work with others that maybe don't agree with us at all. And that's okay. I think that's what's so special about this country, is that you have people from all walks of life, all faiths, all thoughts, processes on everything, and somehow we make it work. And if we can continue down that path, then our country will be okay. But if young people lose that sense of purpose and lose that kind of guidance that you were just talking about, then I have great concerns for what the future of this country will look like.

[James Polis]

Looks like we got about one minute left. Just, you know, next four years. What are your expectations? What do you think the American people should expect?

[Greg Sindelar]

Well, we shouldn't get tired of winning, right? It's just going to happen. No, I think what the American people should expect is hopefully a return to governance that serves them. That is the most important thing that I think can happen. And with that getting out from underneath all this debt that has really crippled our ability to, I think, lead into the future. And so I'm very optimistic about where our state is going and where our country is going based on the leadership. And I think if government returns to its core purposes, then the future is very bright.

[James Polis]

You know, I think that sounds about right to me. And that might be a little vague for some people. But you know what, Be careful what you wish for, because if you set two spots, specific expectations in this life, you will guaranteeing that you're going to.

[Greg Sindelar]

Let yourself down 100%.

[James Polis]

Greg, thanks so much for joining us.

[Greg Sindelar]

Yeah, thanks for having me, James.

[James Polis]

Absolutely. All right. And thank you for watching, like, subscribe if you're watching on our new YouTube channel. Until next time around, I am James Paulus. This is Zero Hour. And may God have mercy.