← Zero Hour with James Poulos
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- [00:01]
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- [00:31]
James Polis
From the national spelling beat of the Miss America pageant to 16 years at ESPN, what hasn't she done? Sage Steele joins us today. I'm James Polis. This is Zero Hour.
- [01:02]
Sage Steele
La la la la la la.
- [01:08]
James Polis
You probably know her from ESPN and SportsCenter. Sage Steele has covered major sports events throughout her career. Super Bowl Masters, NBA Finals, on and on. She now serves on the boards of the Boys and Girls Club of America and the V Foundation for Cancer Research. Welcome, Sage.
- [01:22]
Sage Steele
Thank you, James, for having me.
- [01:24]
James Polis
Absolutely. How's it going? So, what, 16 years? 16 years at ESPN?
- [01:28]
Sage Steele
18 and a half. Give me those extra six months, okay?
- [01:30]
James Polis
Absolutely.
- [01:31]
Sage Steele
I earned it. Yeah, yeah. But it was a great run.
- [01:34]
James Polis
And you come out on the other side and media is, like, totally transformed.
- [01:38]
Sage Steele
Yeah.
- [01:40]
James Polis
Journalists, not what they used to be. Celebrities, not what they used to be. Pro sports, all kinds of questions. Do you feel like you're on another planet?
- [01:48]
Sage Steele
I kind of do, yes. And I felt like I was in this bubble and just watching what was going on from inside this protective bubble where, okay, I'm aware of what's happening in the world and politically and Hollywood and who cares? I have to cover the Cavs and the warriors, and that's what's really, really important right now. I like it. I like knowing more about what's going on and actually being in it. But it was. It has been surreal to make the change. And even though I knew it was coming, it's still. It's still been kind of shocking.
- [02:22]
James Polis
Yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you think is the future of sports media at this point? You know, we've all sort of seen what's happened to cable tv. I mean, espn, you got shows that are trying to find a. On streamers, you know, I don't know. Is it pay per view? Is it.
- [02:37]
Sage Steele
Yeah.
- [02:38]
James Polis
Is it just gonna kind of go in the direction of podcast culture? What do you think?
- [02:42]
Sage Steele
I don't know. Just looking at ESPN and how that has transformed, that network has transformed from when I started in 2007 to when I left in 2023. Oh, my goodness. Completely different back in the day, as I assume you're a sports fan.
- [02:56]
James Polis
Oh, of course.
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Sage Steele
Every sports. Come on. Or else I'm Gonna leave Born Detroit.
- [02:59]
James Polis
You gotta do it.
- [03:00]
Sage Steele
Oh, there. Of course. Of course. You've been through it all, and I've been rooting for you.
- [03:04]
James Polis
I was.
- [03:04]
Sage Steele
So that the Lions didn't get to the super bowl this year. I really. I thought this was the year. But I love your coach, Dan Campbell Tease.
- [03:10]
James Polis
Yes.
- [03:11]
Sage Steele
Yeah. Anyway, sorry to bring it all up.
- [03:13]
James Polis
No, it's part of the loyalty.
- [03:15]
Sage Steele
Yeah. Like, it's. That was must see TV back in the. Okay. When I was in college, which I graduated in 95, so I'm aging myself mid-90s, and the bad boys and the Pistons and sports was different then, and you had to watch the games to know what was going on. You had to plan your day around it, even over. I'd say up until the last decade, maybe a little sooner, you had to watch. But now with X and everything just being immediate, you know, the news, you don't have to sit down and watch the 6pm Sports center like I used to host, you know, you don't have to. So I think that that has forced everybody in the industry to just be a little more creative and to think. And if you look at just the kind of programming on those networks, there isn't nearly as much news. It's opinion, it's debate, its reaction. It's talk shows. Not that that's bad, but it certainly makes it easier to make a choice. If you don't like that person who's screaming and yelling, okay, next. Because you're not getting news from them, you're getting opinion, you can go anywhere immediately and get it. So I think it continues to go in that way. It's interesting when you look at my friend Stephen A. Smith, who's at ESPN and about to make or. I don't even know what the contract situation is now, but 100 mil, I mean, he's. It's incredible. And I don't know anybody who's worked harder to be honest with you. Everybody has opinions on Stephen A. Rightfully so. He is an incredibly hardworking, very, very smart man.
- [04:45]
James Polis
He has a guy who can pull off a pinstripe suit that's a white suit is doing something right.
- [04:50]
Sage Steele
If you think he pulled it off.
- [04:51]
James Polis
Hey, man, that's subjective. I mean, but you gotta push the boundaries.
- [04:57]
Sage Steele
And he does. I know he does it better than Stephen A. But it's actually incredible what he has done so to. He actually got let go from ESPN 12, 14 years ago or so, and they let him go. And then he had to work his way back to the network and Then, since then, he certainly has taken off. And I have all the respect in the world for him, even though I disagree with him on a lot of things. I mean, the way he has done things and that's okay. He feels the same way about me. He's been clear about that. But he hosts First Take and also has his own show on YouTube which he has convinced ESPN to promote his YouTube show on the first take show. They're not making money from that, as far as I know. So it's amazing what he has created. And then to be able to go and do all the political things too, that there's different rules for different people. I was not allowed to do that for sure. So that's interesting. But like, they've had to as a network evolve in some ways. Again, it's limited, it's with certain people, but it is smart because I believe any network, if you allow your people to do other things, but their home base is with you, they're only promoting you. To me, it's a win win. And what he's done is amazing.
- [06:08]
James Polis
Yeah, well, you know, looking at that kind of political angle of things, it's been so interesting. I mean, right, you know, right now we're seeing that BLM square sign coming down in Washington D.C. and you know, sort of the, the end zones are being repainted and everything. And this kind of moment seems to be kind of coming to an end. And there's this question of, you know, yes, there's that ideological component, but there's also sort of, I think, a business calculation, sort of like big corporations going like, oh, no, you know, bottom line's not like the environment's changing. We're kind of getting aced out by technology. How do we recreate a kind of edge? Yeah, how do we recreate that feeling of like, Must see TV or whatever that is? You know, if it's not going to be, you know, appointment viewing, if it's not going to be sort of having more control or almost a monopoly over the content, over the information, what is it that's going to make people say like, ah, you know, I really, I really need to just sit down and watch. Maybe it's going to be this kind of like, you know, collective experience of like a, like an ethical ideological thing. Maybe that's what's gonna, gonna do it kind of in the way that, you know, you had all those east coast firms who are like, we're doing ESG now, it's kind of creating like a new, a new criterion, a new filter. A new sort of standard to try to get people to, to pivot to. If that didn't work, is there going to be something sticky enough for them to come up with that's going to keep people coming back when you've got X sitting there and people can just kind of melt away into that?
- [07:44]
Sage Steele
That's the hard thing for me. I mean, I struggle with three kids in college and watching how they have evolved as far as how they consume anything, you know, and what is it now? It's like, you better be quick, get them quick, get them in or else. Swipe, swipe. Next, Next. My kids don't sit down and watch tv. They haven't for years.
- [08:10]
James Polis
Do they watch movies?
- [08:11]
Sage Steele
They watch some movies, but if it's streaming on a tablet, you know, okay, they'll still pop up, you know, hbo Max or Netflix, you know, when they're home. And I'm paying for it, you know, but it's, it has to be something that's very intentional. Kids don't sit there in front of the TV with the clicker and just, you know, kind of, yeah, surf and see. Oh, maybe this looks interesting. So that's the hard part is, is trying to create the clickbait, which I hate. Is that necessary? Is that the only way to get people to stay? I mean, my show, which is a long form podcast, you know, I have gotten a lot of feedback from people, producers are used to work with, etc. And it's like you gotta be shorter and you gotta be quicker and we don't need to be in person. You can just do it on a zoom and. No, now I'm very new to it and I'm still learning and still trying to gain subscribers and clicks. Hi, sage, deal show YouTube. But like it's a whole new world and I don't want to give up on it though. I don't want to give up on this. I think this is super important and our conversation today is going to be completely different. It already is. Than if I'm just joining you on a zoom on a link. And I don't want to lose that. Like I'm old school and stubborn and don't want to lose that human interaction because that's the key. If you're doing that on a zoom, it can be good, of course, but it's not a conversation, that's more an interview. And I do feel like there's a space for this. Obviously you're doing it, many are doing it well. And I'm trying to grab a little piece of that, because that's what drives me as a storyteller and a human being and a consumer and someone who's active now in politics, something I thought I would never do, and a mother. I. I think this is what's missing. Right. So there has to be, I think, yeah, some combination of, okay, let's get the clicks. And I mean that. And yeah, and that's in any industry. Right. We all have to evolve. I mean, look at how the super bowl ads have evolved through the years too. And you got to be quick with it. But how do we find that happy medium? And I don't have the answers. I'm just trying to do what I feel is comfortable for me and then the feedback that I get and try to do it in a diverse way, even though the diversity word has been abused. Right. And so to talk to all different kinds of people and try to appeal to the masses, if that's possible.
- [10:37]
James Polis
Yeah, I mean, I think it is. And there's going deep is rewarded. And I think if anything, it's kind of like that middle zone that's hollowing out, where it's like people want either something that has very fast turnover or something that goes really deep. And you look at the podcast world and people are going two hour, three hour, sometimes four hour shows and they're retaining audience. And I think if you do want to go in that direction, I think there are people out there who are ready to take that journey with you.
- [11:05]
Sage Steele
I'm going. I'm already in. I mean, not just a toe, at least one and a half feet. Yeah. I mean, and you know what if it doesn't work, and I believe it will if it doesn't, though, I tried. And that's what I say to my kids. Like, you will regret not trying. You gotta do it even if you've fallen. I have fallen on my face so many times on live national TV in front of the world. Good, bad, ugly. And I'm still here.
- [11:35]
James Polis
It's part of the process.
- [11:35]
Sage Steele
So I think that's the lesson, is people live in fear of trying anything, anything. And it actually pisses me off. And I actually get an. I don't like to be around people who live in fear. And there's a long story, probably some ptsd, but like, no, just try it and you're still going to wake up the next day and be better for it.
- [11:54]
James Polis
Well, yeah, I think that's kind of one of the wrong lessons that people have learned from the Internet. It's understandable, I guess, but it's this idea that, like. Well, we've kind of made this huge map of everyone's identity and everyone gets slotted into a slot and there's this, you know, big taxonomy, like it's the animal kingdom or something.
- [12:12]
Sage Steele
Yeah.
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James Polis
And so what that means is if you, you know, for whatever reason, don't instantly connect on the Internet, well, you can be replaced with someone who's just like you. There's just kind of this standing reserve of, you know, not quite your clones, but clones in the making as far as the algorithm's concerned. And so don't take any risks because, you know, if it doesn't land, then we're just going to be on to the next person who's just kind of another version of you.
- [12:42]
Sage Steele
I lived like that for a very long time, and then I didn't. And I was talking about this over the weekend. I shudder at the thought of what my life would be like had I not taken risks and taken chances and pushed through. More fear than I can ever describe. It wasn't a conscious decision at the time, but. No, no.
- [13:14]
James Polis
Where do you think you would be now if you hadn't done that?
- [13:19]
Sage Steele
Well, I actually don't think I'd be at ESPN still. When I left, I had almost a year left on my contract. And because of the changing landscape, because I had spoken up a little bit, I think I was the highest paid female at the network, so they probably would have asked me to take a pay cut. I might have. You know, it was still a great living. But I don't know. I literally don't know. Would I have taken the pay cut and stayed? I had done everything I ever dreamt of and more. My whole dream Since I was 11 years old was to be a sportscaster. And then as I got into high school, to be on ESPN hosting SportsCenter, I did it. And then I did so much more beyond that that I never, like, I am so grateful for every moment there, even the crap. I promise you, I am. I wouldn't change any of it. So what more could I have done there? Like, it was to the point where I could have done SportsCenter in my sleep right now. It doesn't mean I didn't care. Ask my producers. I annoyed the crap out of them at times because I was like, okay, two live hours every single day. There's segment producers. Someone's producing the segment with Adam Schefter, another person is producing the segment with an athlete, et cetera. And so you have a lot coming in, and then you make decisions. But 90% of the questions that they suggested and gave me, I changed. Because I'm like, okay, number one, that's not a question. That's a statement. Let's ask a question. I know that's crazy. And number two, I wanted to make it genuine and real. And how do I get just not the cliche answer? Point being, I cared until the very last day I did it, even though I knew it was ending.
- [15:12]
James Polis
Was that the logic that was going through your head when you start, okay, I'm gonna go off on Covid a little bit. I'm gonna go off on Obama a little bit. Was that where it was coming from?
- [15:20]
Sage Steele
What?
- [15:20]
James Polis
Just going from being on autopilot to kind of pushing things to be a little bit fresher?
- [15:26]
Sage Steele
I was never on autopilot. What I meant by being able to do it in my sleep was that I was comfortable and confident enough to do it and to. For example, there are times where I wouldn't. I knew I had five minutes with someone and I would put two questions in and allow myself. This was a challenge to myself every day to listen to their answers and then wing it and go from there on live national tv. Like, I knew and know about myself to this day that I'm best under pressure, and the adrenaline rush helps me, even though it's really scary and even though producers are like, what do you mean? Like, this is. Don't you have more? Or you gotta put more in? I'm like, this is what I do to challenge myself.
- [16:11]
James Polis
And it's better for you than an energy drink, right?
- [16:14]
Sage Steele
Much better. Yeah. But I also feel like we don't give our viewers enough credit in that industry. They can tell whether you're scripted or not. I watch my former colleagues there, and at any network, I know if it's a scripted question or their question, I can feel it, and I think viewers can, too. So to me, my goal was authenticity. Yes. To be a journalist and to get the answers that I was hoping not to get specifically, Like, I hope he answers it this way. No, just to get an answer, because that's my job. I'm the liaison, the middleman between the athletes, the coaches, whatever, and the viewers. Right. So I'm just trying to learn. And if I didn't push, then, like, am I doing my job? It doesn't mean push for controversy, but push to get a really thorough, unique, honest answer. And. Yeah. So full circle. I just. I loved every second of it. And I was so scared every day. I went in with nervousness and concern about at least one segment or one interview. But I think that that's what made me better and made me push through the fears. Because every time I did it, every time I was like, okay, I don't know what I'm gonna say here, but I now have compensated something somewhat, you know, sensical I hope will come out of my mouth. And every time it really did, I'm like, whoa, I just did that so I can do it again the next day and the next day. And I think, though, I understand why people don't push themselves, because there is that next person that they're cloning to be, like you right there, ready to take your job for a lot less money. Like, I totally get the fear, and I don't recommend this to everyone, but I do know that for me, I could not look myself in the mirror any longer if I was holding back. The one thing. And I'll shut up after this. I'm on a tear here. The one thing I was adamant about not allowing my personal opinions to infiltrate how I did my job. I never got political on the air. If I can recall, it was intentional. This cross that I'm wearing now, I never wore it on espn. I didn't even design it or buy it until after, even though I wanted one my whole life, because I didn't want to influence anybody. That was not my job. So that was intentional to keep that separate, despite what people think. And anything I said, political was not on ESPN airwaves. It was not my Twitter handle. Never said SageSteel, ESPN, like many of my colleagues, because I wanted there to be separate, and I didn't expect anybody to agree with me. And I. No, I stayed silent for many, many years until I saw my colleagues saying what they wanted, and I was like, oh, okay, if that's cool, well, then I can, too. And that's where it went down.
- [19:17]
James Polis
I want to get back to that cross in a minute, but just, you know, for someone who has spent a career in more or less the entertainment industry, you know as well as anyone that the life of the entertainer, of the pro entertainer has been a life of that kind of paranoia and fear of being replaced long before the Internet got going. And you look at something like X, and, of course, you know, Elon and what he's done with that platform made an enormous, enormous, amazing, incalculable difference over the course of. Of the election. And I don't think anyone's, you know, really able to short that in any way. But even, you know, just now, you sort of look at the way that the form of that technology is kind of reshaping people's experience when they engage with the site. And yeah, it does have this effect of sort of flattening out the conversation and sort of making everyone conform. Because if you don't kind of pick up on whatever is hot that day, algorithmically, you're just, you're not going to have that reach. And people struggle with sort of self worth. What am I doing? You know, is this even worth my time if they're not getting that kind of feedback? It's so numbers driven. And you know, to post something that you think is good and you get like the 30 likes and then there's some other larger account who just post the same thing and it's like 3,000 likes. Yeah, that's like really tough.
- [20:44]
Sage Steele
It is hard. And. Excuse me, I've just. That's the problem. If we base our self worth on likes, we're screwed.
- [20:58]
James Polis
Yeah.
- [20:59]
Sage Steele
And I mean, which one of us hasn't done that at times?
- [21:02]
James Polis
Sure.
- [21:03]
Sage Steele
Where you're like, wait, why didn't this get likes? Oh my gosh, maybe I should have worded it differently. Maybe I look really ugly in that picture. I don't know what it is. And I have just learned to let go and to not read the comments really, because there is a lot of ugliness and negativity out there. But there's also a lot more positive than we think too. It's just we choose to focus on the negative or the mean comment, you know?
- [21:29]
James Polis
Well, and then we can talk about Instagram too, where, you know, they move to hiding likes because that situation is even more severe. And, you know, knowing, knowing a thing or two about this via my wife, it's like those hate comments can be completely out of control. And I had to say, like, look, you know, it's, it's, it may be painful on like day one, but what we started to notice is when you do start getting hate comments from like random people, it's actually like a notification that you are about to have a tidal wave of views and traffic coming your way because that's showing you that the algorithm has boosted you out to a level where you are getting random people.
- [22:05]
Sage Steele
Yeah.
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James Polis
And those people might not even want your content, but it's being served to them and that's what drives the confidence.
- [22:10]
Sage Steele
So the hate is good.
- [22:11]
James Polis
The hate is a signal that you're about to blow up. That's what it seems like the problem.
- [22:15]
Sage Steele
Is for people like my mother, my poor mother, you know what I Mean. And she and my dad, they've gotten a lot better about not reading. Although every once in a while I'll check and I'll see my mom's name in a comment because she's gone after something. I'm like, mom, don't.
- [22:35]
James Polis
Don't feed the trolls.
- [22:36]
Sage Steele
Mom, don't do it. But I will say this. It was a real turning point. This is 2017. One of the first times I accidentally got controversial. And I swear to you, it was not intentional. I was just doing what everybody else was. I had an opinion on something and I posted it. And it was like. And she called me and she's like, sage. There are thousands of hateful, hateful remarks. This is the first time I got kind of death threats. They were saying, I hope your daughters get raped. You've seen it.
- [23:09]
James Polis
Yeah. Standard stuff now, unfortunately.
- [23:11]
Sage Steele
Standard, right. Another level, though. And as a pleaser, that's one of my things. The diseases. I've tried to overcome sicknesses, like, stop being a pleaser. And a girl, a woman, firstborn, like, all the things and a mother. I was like, oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. And I saw them and my heart was racing. And my mom called me after a couple days of it, and she's like, please delete those comments. They don't need to be on there. And it hit me in that moment. I go, mom, if I delete those comments, that makes it look like they don't exist. And not only do I need to never forget that they're there, I need other people who see my page just to notice and go, this is the reality. If you are true to yourself in whatever innocent or controversial way, this is what comes and this is what they do to scare you into submission and silence. And so, no, I will never delete a single negative, racist, threatening comment. They need to know it's out there. And it's a good reminder for me, too. That was a real turning point. And since what I do to handle it mentally is I don't reply every once in a while on X, a couple times a year, I'll take something that's just egregious and retweet it and blow it up and enjoy seeing them attacked and then make their page private or something like that, that's kind of rewarding. But otherwise, I almost take it as a compliment in some ways, to your point. Not because, oh, it'll get me more likes or views maybe, but it's a reminder of how small and shallow people are. And as my mother reminded Me when I first started at ESPN and it was ugly and there were some women who were pretty ugly outwardly to me. People I really looked up to.
- [24:57]
James Polis
Very triggered.
- [24:58]
Sage Steele
Yeah. And this is again, 0708 pre ex, pre Twitter, but peers on the air who would say and do things. And I was devastated because these are people I had looked up to. My mom's like, as much as this hurts you right now because of what they said or did, they're actually not upset with you. People who do that on any level are actually probably unhappy themselves. Have something else going on in their lives that make them reach out and attack you. It's not an excuse for behavior, but it's probably a reason. And that has helped me handle it and be able to finally, at age 52, just be like, okay, that's on you. It's your loss. Because I'm actually really nice.
- [25:40]
James Polis
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it is still possible to dunk on those trolls from time to time.
- [25:45]
Sage Steele
It feels good sometimes, but it's just.
- [25:47]
James Polis
Getting so tough out there for a celebrity. I mean, you know, we never thought that we'd get to a moment where we actually start to feel pity for the plight of the celebs some, but they're having just a rough. You know, more and more people are kind of retreating and wondering if social media is just doing more harm than good. And, you know, you put yourself out there as a celebrity and it's so easy to be, you know, kind of seen as out of touch and seen as, you know, like just miscues and kind of.
- [26:16]
Sage Steele
You just gotta take the good with the bad, though.
- [26:18]
James Polis
Yeah.
- [26:18]
Sage Steele
Because I do think there's more good than bad. And this is coming from a woman with my kids. We're in birthday season. They're about to be 23, 21 and 19. So we were talking earlier about COVID kids and all that. They've, you know, your son and then my kids have lived through and survived. And business wise, it's smart. We can't deny that. You know, you're not going to get a speaking gig or a potential endorsement if you don't have a social media account. You're just not. And I do think there are good, healthy ways to explain yourself or to put your viewpoint out there, unlike you could do on network television for sure. And for me, this is maybe cheesy, but social media to me is my version of a journal or a diary. Not diary, because that's super private, obviously, but a journal because I don't have the ability with my brain and how it works, sadly, to sit down and journal and to keep good track of life. And I've been able to. That's what I use Instagram for in particular. And Facebook. It's all kind of tied together through pictures and captions. And sometimes when I scroll back or my kids will go through and be like, mom, remember this? I was so embarrassed when you posted this. And I'm like, I forgot about that. So what a. I take it as a gift, despite the ugliness, because I've documented everything professionally and personally for the last dozen years. I wish I'd had it before in some ways because there's so much I've forgotten about. And that's. I choose to look at it that way. And when the ugliness. And I got ugly messages today, like, because I posted something on the number of Democrats that voted against women to protect sports.
- [28:11]
James Polis
Right.
- [28:12]
Sage Steele
And it was unanimous, you know, and so they're coming after me again, including one NBA coach in particular who has won a championship, who is super successful and continues. Like, my opinions make him crazy to the point where he gets in my DMs once a week and goes nuts. And I'm debating whether or not I blow him up, but I'm like, okay, it's okay, calm down. And in the meantime, I was in Mexico last week with my boyfriend and we had an incredible time that I know without the pictures, my little brain will forget. So we gotta use it to our own benefit.
- [28:43]
James Polis
Well, and it helps to have like a family life, right. When you're not just totally on your own, just you trying to swim around to the Internet finding meaning.
- [28:51]
Sage Steele
Yeah. And there is. My faith is super important. And it is the way that I have gotten through the crap over the last 10 years, 15 years for sure. And I have found a lot of inspiration with podcasts and Instagram feeds, with a quick scripture in the morning. There's a lot of good.
- [29:13]
James Polis
Yeah. Well, let's talk about faith here. Because the pressure that public figures have, the pressure that entertainers have, people in sports and other sort of public facing industries, Here's a little magazine Frontier, the next issue that's coming out. There's a little bit in there where we talked to Antonio Brown about what that whole sort of wokeness moment was in sports. And basically what he said is like, what you got to understand is it's not enough to be a pro sports athlete. And people know that there's a short shelf life in most cases, even if you're really good. And so that was part of this scramble of people saying, I want to have longevity. And if you want to have longevity in this world, you have to be speaking up and you have to be speaking out about something. You got to be putting yourself out there and making this kind of brand for yourself that's more about you than it is about just kind of what sport you play or how. What your stats are or whatever. And the wokeness moment was kind of this opportunity for everyone to say, like, here's a way that I can kind of like, create or establish this identity for myself that might outlive.
- [30:31]
Sage Steele
Yeah.
- [30:31]
James Polis
My career on the field or whatever. And what. What I'm gathering, you know, what I'm sensing from. From your experience is, you know, it doesn't have to be that because you've got this whole world of faith where this is something that you can share with people. You can be open about it, you can kind of expand, you know, in. In the. The pejorative is like a parasocial relationship. Right. Where people on the Internet feel like they know you as a person and they're kind of participating in your life somehow. But there's more authenticity to it there. And there's. There's sort of something more important with the faith aspect, too.
- [31:00]
Sage Steele
Yeah. Yeah. It was never something I was comfortable talking about, though, as a journalist, for sure. But also in general. I grew up Catholic and still practice. I moved recently, so I'm trying to find. I had the best priest and best church in Connecticut, and I'm in South Florida now, and I'm trying to start over in that way, and that's hard, actually. But he watches everything I. That I do, and if I'm on Fox News or something, he's like, great segment. You know, this is my priest texting me. It's so great. But I felt like, you know, I did my own stuff during the week and prayer, et cetera, reading. My little. My dad sends out a group text to the family with a scripture every morning to me and my two brothers and their wives and my kids, who are the oldest of the grandkids. And otherwise, I was just Sunday. And, you know, we don't really pray out loud as Catholics, and we don't focus on. We don't. We're not told. I wasn't told to read the Bible and understand it, like, so I've had to really, really grow in it. And, you know, a huge turning point for me was about a year and a half ago when I was asked to do the invocation at a NASCAR race. It was Actually, Cota here in Texas. And I was scared to death to stand on a stage in front of 100,000 NASCAR fans and live on Fox. I was still at ESPN at the time and pray. I don't know that I'd been more nervous for anything in my career.
- [32:37]
James Polis
Adrenaline maxing out.
- [32:40]
Sage Steele
Oh, times 100. I wanted to throw up. And I was like, why did I say yes to this? Not just because it was live in front of all those people, but because it was something so deeply personal, and I wanted to make it authentic. That's my thing in life, of course. And so I didn't want to write it down and read it. I wanted to have it come from here. But as a Catholic, I'm not used to praying out loud.
- [33:03]
James Polis
Right.
- [33:05]
Sage Steele
It was a moment.
- [33:06]
James Polis
Well, and there's that whole sort of stereotypical kind of evangelical prayer, which is just, lord, I just this and just that and just lift this.
- [33:13]
Sage Steele
You're so right.
- [33:14]
James Polis
Okay.
- [33:14]
Sage Steele
You know, I'm like, they sound stupid and, like, they don't really mean it. I love that you just said, I just this. I just.
- [33:20]
James Polis
Oh. I mean, it's. You know, I'm not here to sort of bag on people's prayers, but it does. You know, when you're on the spot and you gotta deliver in front of a big crowd, you wanna have something a little.
- [33:30]
Sage Steele
I'd never done that in my life again. I didn't even show my cross. Like, none of it. And I was just scared. And so. And see, look, I'm stuttering again thinking about it, because it brings me back to that moment right before I'm walking on. On this big stage. And this is the same stage where they have the drivers come up and you wave and you go across. I mean, 100,000 people there. And right before I walked out there, I memorized it to an extent. Like, what I. The bullet points in my head. It has to be exactly 34 seconds.
- [33:58]
James Polis
Wow.
- [33:59]
Sage Steele
Like, you can't just really wing it, you know, FOX Live. You got to go. My mind went blank. I forgot everything. And I was like. I'm like, I've done every. I've interviewed presidents. I've been in front of 30 million people, NBA. And right now, my brain is empty. What am I going to do? And so what did I do? I said another quick prayer, and I heard my name called, and I walked out there, and I stood there with the microphone, and I looked down and I breathed deeply. And somehow, like, it is a God, somehow I'm gonna cry. Like, it came out exactly the way I dreamt of. And it was a huge turning point because I was like, I didn't care what anyone else thought of the fact that I said yes to doing it before I would have, you know, and the words were intentional and trying to bring people together, you know.
- [34:55]
James Polis
It wasn't what you memorized.
- [34:57]
Sage Steele
Pardon?
- [34:57]
James Polis
It wasn't the prayer you'd memorized.
- [35:00]
Sage Steele
It was pretty darn close, but it wasn't. It didn't feel like I was memorized. Like it was a script. It just flowed. I know in my heart that the moment right before where it went dark and I had all this fear and then I said a quick prayer and walked out, like that was God right there saying, I got you. Even though you're so scared right now, you know, And I didn't write anything down. Like, I took, I pushed my. I took another chance. Every single time I've taken chances like that, I've been, I don't want to say rewarded, but like, assured. I got you. That's just how I choose to feel it and choose to believe it. And since then, I've just been out there with it. I mean it when I say thank you to someone and say God bless, like, I really mean that. I can't control how they receive it, but I know that I mean it because I've been blessed so much.
- [35:56]
James Polis
So you were raised Catholic. How was that growing up? I mean, that church has gone through so much controversy and I just feel like, you know, there's so many Americans still who are just very suspicious of organized religion. And I understand I'm spiritual, but, you know, never gonna. That's the cool thing, right?
- [36:14]
Sage Steele
That's spiritual but not religious.
- [36:15]
James Polis
And again, you know, I'm not here to say don't be spiritual because, you know, you can be very spiritual and, and religious at the same time. Right. This is about a kind of a state of being which, which is good, but also, you know, if, if you go too far in, in the, the anti organized religion direction, you see what happens. People just sort of spinning off into these crazy cults and. And that never ends well.
- [36:37]
Sage Steele
Yeah, it was a beautiful upbringing. I, you know, grew up, I mean, in the 80s, my, you know, most of my memories from then, when I was old enough to remember things, and I'm an army brat and so we lived in different countries and no matter where we were in the world, you can always find a Catholic church and you know what to expect when you go in. The priest might be different or look different and the church, the building itself, but the smell is the same. The incense was the same, the hymns are the same. I knew when to kneel and to.
- [37:14]
James Polis
Stand just like a Starbucks. It always smells the same, right?
- [37:17]
Sage Steele
Yeah. Let's compare Starbucks to the Catholic Church. Absolutely, why not? Some Starbucks are a lot cleaner and nicer. I. I don't do Starbucks anymore. I try every town I go to to find a local coffee shop and to support the local people, and it always tastes better and is cleaner. But anyway, that familiarity gave me comfort when I was young and even up until now when I. Even though I haven't found my new Catholic Church home in Florida yet. But I was an altar server, you know, I went to CCD in Sunday school, and there's a comfort there, and I liked it. And of course, as you get older, you see many of the imperfections, just like any organized religion or any of your spiritual stuff, too. And I'm spiritual as well. Like, I'm all of it. I don't know one religion, I don't know one business, I don't know one restaurant where I like everything on the menu, for sure. But there's certain things that I do like, and I'm going to choose to take those and learn from the others and have conversations. I've had incredible conversations with my priest back in Connecticut about all kinds of things, and I disagree. For instance, and I'll share this with you, and even though it's very deeply personal, divorce in the Catholic Church, it's a no, no, I wasn't going to do it. I was devastated to have to make the decision. I married my college sweetheart, my first boyfriend. I was married two days shy of 20 years with him from age 20 to 47. And the shame that I felt for getting divorced for making that decision, I can't even describe it for myself as well, personally, as prideful. I don't quit, et cetera. And the Catholic Church, in order to get remarried, requires you to annul your marriage, which to me means erase it. And I refuse to do that. I refuse to erase what was a good thing for many years that produced my three babies who aren't babies. So am I going to delete that and make it look like it never happened? Because the church tells me to do that in order to remarry. What message does that send my children? Even though it didn't end the way I wanted to, it happened and it was beautiful for a long time. So I call BS on a lot of things and I'm not going to conform to that. And if it Means if I get married again, I don't do it in the Catholic Church, so be it. So that's. I share that. Just as to try to back up my stance that there are imperfections, in my opinion, in the Catholic Church and any organized religion, and we can go through them, but there's no need, like. So if I'm gonna be judged by the Catholic Church for that opinion, I don't care. I believe my relationship with God is the most important thing. And how I live every day as I'm trying to get better.
- [40:22]
James Polis
Yeah.
- [40:23]
Sage Steele
So take what you want from that. That's the beautiful thing about it. I don't care what you think anymore. And for years, that's how I led, was by being so concerned with what everybody else thinks. And it works for me. And I believe God loves me this way. He sees my heart. He knows me better than I know me. So I'm okay with what people think about it. And I even talked to my priest about it, and he's like, I understand. Like, I don't know that I can go ask him to marry me again if I ever make that decision, but I know he would support me because he knows my heart as well.
- [41:01]
James Polis
Yeah. And it's interesting, you know, in spite of all the imperfections, in spite of the bad press or the bad reputations or whatever coming out of COVID especially, there are, I think, undeniable signs at this point that more and more Americans, including younger Americans, are really turning to the oldest of the Christian churches. That's something that's new. We haven't seen that kind of turn in quite a while, maybe ever in this country. And I just. I wonder if you have sort of experienced that over the past several years, just kind of like more people turning to the Catholic Church or, you know, in my case, Orthodox church, and whether that kind of shift is showing up on your radar.
- [41:40]
Sage Steele
I have been blown away by the youth movement with faith. Like I said, my oldest is almost 23, and the things she knows and understands about her faith, I didn't. At 22, 23, I didn't really care to. And my girl is a handful, let me tell you. She just got back from spring break in Miami. Okay. So there's a lot. She goes all over the place, but she's rooted in that, and I'm so proud of her for that, because I wasn't that good at that age. The amount of times I'm stopped in airports or at events by people who are thanking me for being out there with my faith, it is overwhelming and it encourages me to keep doing it. And I do thrive on some of that encouragement in this space because it's more recent where I've been comfortable talking about that. Charlie Kirk, I think, has done such an incredible job. It's almost indescribable to me how much he has helped Donald Trump win the election, first and foremost. But also to see him on college campuses and the conversations that he forces people to have, despite what's thrown at him and said to him, and all the attempts to shock him and gotcha moments. But it's all rooted in his faith. And he's so smart, like I could never be. I have this much of his smarts and I'm like, God, you're half my age, how do you do? But there's a movement. I talked to him about it as well. On these campuses where these kids are looking for it, they want to understand more about God and then maybe choose to still say, okay, no, forget it. I think it's all crap, fine. But they're having the conversations more than I recall in college, for sure. And I have to credit a lot of that to social media and to TikTok. People wouldn't know that Charlie Kirk's going to, you know, set up tent, you know, on campus at USC without social media. There's so much positivity and there's so much more talk about faith because of that. I am blown away by the number of kids, college kids, high school kids who want to learn more, and then people my age. I'm in my 50s. It is flight attendants constantly pulling me aside when I go to the. I try not to go to the laboratory ever on an airplane, but if I have hot tea, I'm going to end up back there, even if it's a 20 minute flight. And they'll pull me aside and say, thank you. Like, I've shown my kids your comments on faith, so thank you. And so that brings me to tears, James, because I'm like, okay, this is worth it. And it's the old cliche if it only changes one person, but it is true, you know.
- [44:38]
James Polis
And how has your faith affected kind of how you've calibrated your involvement in.
- [44:42]
Sage Steele
Politics at this point by just knowing that no matter what, I'm gonna be okay. No matter what I say, I'm gonna be okay. There's bigger things, I promise you. The goal was not to be in politics in any way. I was like, let me run the opposite direction. This is not good for business. And it just happened. Organically like last fall when I was getting ready to make the move from Connecticut. I stayed in Connecticut for a year after I left espn because my youngest was a senior in high school. I needed to get her through and had bought a condo in Florida during COVID right after my divorce. And it was just a real healing place for me. Divorce and Covid were all at the same time. We were shut down in the Northeast. So I came to Florida every other week when my kids were with their dad and just learned to be alone and learned all those things. And so I was like, okay, when she left, sold the house, sold everything in it, had an estate sale, kept a few things that were meaningful to the kids and me, storage unit, and just made life smaller. And on the way in the process of that move, the Trump campaign asked if I would do a couple of things. Show up at a little event, and it happened organically. And then it led to me being on the campaign trail with the pink jacket with Lara Trump and people like that, and then moderating town Halls with J.D. vance and Donald Trump, and the Monday before the election, the night before on Trump Force One on the plane, going to his last two rallies of his campaign. And through it all, I just trusted God that he was guiding me in the right direction. And again, I shudder at the thought of where I'd be if I hadn't just listened and gone with it. I've met the most incredible people and most importantly, feel like I've been able to make a little bit of a difference just to show people to not listen to the noise and to not live in fear. And that literally all comes from God. I was scared. And I'm like. And then when I went to that rally at msg, like, a week or two before the election, and I was sitting with Michael Knowles and Dave Rubin, and then I'd gone down, and I'm friends with Dana White, and he was getting ready to speak, and he called me down there and, you know, like, backstage beforehand, he's been a dear friend, such a big help to me. And then I was like, Dana gave me one of. One of the MAGA hats that the Trump campaign had left for him. And I always told myself, I will never wear one of those hats.
- [47:25]
James Polis
Until one day, until that rally.
- [47:28]
Sage Steele
Until that rally. And it wasn't the red one. It was the dark maga.
- [47:32]
James Polis
Yes.
- [47:34]
Sage Steele
And when I put that on, and it was fun, I took a picture, I was like, oh, boy, here we go. If I post this one. And then I was like, who cares? My hair was a mess that day. And the hat helped me cover this. And I'm not gonna say God told me to put the MAGA hat on. It was just more about knowing that no matter what, I'm gonna be okay. Because it's bigger than me.
- [48:04]
James Polis
In my opinion, it had become possible.
- [48:07]
Sage Steele
It had. And throughout my time at ESPN and the last 22 months that I was there, from the moment I got in trouble for speaking up to the. The day that my lawsuit was settled, God led me through it every day. When I walked in that building after being told how hated I was by my peers, that's what my boss has told me. I said a prayer going in every single day. Thanks to my parents who pulled me off the ground during my suspension and literally walked me through every moment. And when I was driving to work every day, once I came back from that suspension and I'd pull in the parking lot and I'd call my mom and dad and we'd be on the phone and we would pray together Before I walked in that building feeling anxious and scared for what I was going to walk into and saying the prayer and feeling like I had this protective bubble around me and that I was going to not only be okay, but, but be great on tv. And my best work at that network came after I got in trouble and suspended because I just knew I'm gonna be okay. Because if I was still standing at that point, God has a bigger plan. So then to put a MAGA hat on, I was like, whatever, I don't care. My faith has carried me through. People can say what they want. I don't care. That's the best part. I don't care anymore. It just took way too long, 50 plus years to not care.
- [49:41]
James Polis
Have any of those colleagues or peers who ostensibly hated you sort of come around and said, you know what, you were right?
- [49:48]
Sage Steele
No, no. During a couple of them. 1. Well, my co host, Matt Berry, was always just a good friend and still is. I love him and he's probably the most underappreciated person at that network. So talented. But he's a middle aged white guy too.
- [50:14]
James Polis
Right.
- [50:15]
Sage Steele
So good luck.
- [50:16]
James Polis
Yeah.
- [50:18]
Sage Steele
There was a woman in particular who I was very close with, who, you know, I found out later was, you know, told a couple people when I was going through my tough time, she's like, yeah, I love her and I'd love to go over and hang out, but we can't post any pictures. I can't be seen with her. That one, that one got me.
- [50:39]
James Polis
It still does an off camera friendship only.
- [50:43]
Sage Steele
Yeah, after, you know, when you're on the right side of things, you're very useful to others when you can help them and have their back and guide them. Because I was the veteran, the older one for sure. I'm not the oldest, but the older having had been there so long and to help them through personal things as well. So that one in particular sticks with me. I have forgiven, so to speak. Not that they've ever apologized, but that's not about that. It's about how I feel. But you don't forget, that's for damn sure. And it's okay. That's the beauty of this whole process, I think, for all of us in life is when it all hits the fan, you know who your people are. And my circle is so small right now. Kind of makes it easier because I've been disappointed in myself for my inability to stay in touch at the level I'd like to with a lot of awesome people in my life. And I've just really, really, really struggled based on life going so fast and a lot of tough times and kind of going in a little bit of a hole and having three kids and starting my life over. And I've just been bad about that. And that's my biggest regret right now is for where I am. Cause I just haven't been able to keep up and I'll have a list of people to text and. And so unless I do it at 2 in the morning, which I do sometimes, then how is it gonna get done when you're doing everything else? But you know, I was spending a lot of energy on people that I found out didn't really care about me as a human being. So if I don't have time for the people that I love, why would I make time for the people that I don't love and don't actually love me? So it's actually been a blessing. All of the editing has been a blessing. Because now I know who my people are. And deep down, you know what though? They know. And they know that even if we think differently, that I'm a good person and had their back when they needed it, even if they didn't have mine. And I would do it again 100 times because it was the right thing and it led to today. So. So I tell my kids, man, and anyone who'll listen, like, even with my marriage, like I wouldn't change anything because I've learned I'm so much more wise because of it. And I'm not saying it didn't hurt and that it still doesn't, because it really did and does. But I. I'm okay.
- [53:33]
James Polis
Looking back on that Trump campaign, I'm sure you have so many stories and.
- [53:37]
Sage Steele
So many memories, so many awesome moments.
- [53:39]
James Polis
But I gotta ask, where were you when that assassination attempt happened? When the bullet hit his ear?
- [53:46]
Sage Steele
On my couch in Connecticut. It was a Saturday, I think. I was trying to catch up on my Instagram posts because I'm always behind, and I got a text from somebody saying, what do you think? What's your thought? What is this? And I was like, what? So I turned on the TV and my heart. And I started crying because I thought, is this the point where we've come, where there's this much hatred for any human being? Couldn't believe it. And I cried. I wasn't really with the campaign at that time. I guess you could call it a surrogate. I became a surrogate after I didn't even know what that was from a political definition. But I was so sad and scared for him and his family. And I had met Lara Trump at that point and Lynne Patton and a lot of people involved. Laura had been on my show, and she was amazing and lovely, and we became fast friends. And I waited a couple days to text her because I'm sure she was getting blown up with it at that point. But I just cried because I thought, this is where we are. I had asked Laura about his safety in my interview with her, which aired three days before the shooting, and I asked her if she worried and if he worried about his safety, because from the moment he announced that he was going to campaign again, that was my biggest fear. Like, they're gonna do whatever it takes. We'd already seen it on other levels, in my opinion, with voting in 2020 and a stolen election, in my opinion. So I was like, oh, they're gonna do what it takes. And look. So I also got angry and I was like, screw these people. Whatever I can do to help, you know?
- [55:55]
James Polis
And then he popped back up.
- [55:58]
Sage Steele
And 48 hours later, I was on that same couch watching him watch his Granddaughter Kai, at 17 years old on that stage talk about her grandfather. And when I saw the camera's close up of him and saw tears in his eyes watching his granddaughter two days after, it was close to him never seeing her or anyone again. Like, people can say what they want, and certainly he opens himself up to criticism, as does any politician. Thank you. He is a human being, and I am so grateful that I've gotten to see that up Close and personal, and no one can take that away from me. They can say whatever the hell they want. He is one of a kind and a human being and genuine and caring. And I know for a fact, as I think we've. We all have seen, and certainly his family and others have talked about it, he is a changed man. He has talked about God so much since then. So I wonder. I don't know this, but I wonder if he even views that as a blessing.
- [57:13]
James Polis
It's just real tough to look at, you know, go back and watch the tapes and even at the time, you know, and not feel at least a touch of divine intervention.
- [57:23]
Sage Steele
Absolutely. And then three months later, when I was on the stage with him in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, for one of his final rallies in front of 5,000 people in the convention center. And I mean, what an honor, first of all. And to see him. I mean, I'm sitting there next to him, and I will admit this, that at one point, when I looked down and saw the Secret Service, who I got, I did get to know, too. That was super cool to get to know those men. And I didn't get to know any of the Secret Service women, but the men, anytime I was on the trail, there were only men, Secret Service agents, and to look down, and I was like, oh, my goodness. I have never in my life been more vulnerable than I am at this position, sitting on this stage next to Donald Trump, of all people, three months after he'd been shot. And then he went through the whole thing, and it was so great that the graphic. Right, that he always talks about, that graphic, that really saved his life because he turned his head without the turn. And so every rally after that, that's what he did. And I had forgotten because I was up there and I was nervous. And he brought up the graphic, and he's like, by the way, do we have that? And I'm like, he's calling for a graphic. Wait, wait. The producers didn't tell me, and I didn't even know there was a monitor back there on the wall. And sure enough, he knew, and it came up and I got choked up. And I'm like, he did the turn. The turn that saved his life when I was on stage with him. And I just thought, my goodness. And he did. He talked about God like, it is amazing. And that did change him. I think he's softer. It feels that way. It feels that way. Just when he looks at you. He has been quieter. He hasn't been as mouthy or whatever and said as many. And Depending on your perspective, people might view his words at times as insulting. There's been a lot less controversial remarks, in my opinion. And by the way, full circle on that stage. I thought about that, too. What if, from a selfish perspective, what if I had stayed quiet? I would never have had the opportunity, the honor of sitting on the stage even if he had lost the election. It was an honor to see that and to be around someone who had encouraged so many. There were people crying in that audience in front of me. Women, men, black, white, Hispanic, gay, all of it. There's such diversity in every. Every experience I had on the road with the campaign with Lara Trump and that group and the pink jackets or doing the town hall with J.D. vance. It was beautiful. And I believe. I know he wants to unify this country and to bring us back. I saw it up close and personal. I saw how people react to him. I saw how he reacts to them and how much he receives it. So God has continued to come up with this entire family, and I think the country's feeling it. And to your point earlier, the youth there. I have so much hope because of this.
- [60:45]
James Polis
It's a beautiful note to end on. Tell people, if they don't know already, where they can find you.
- [60:49]
Sage Steele
Thank you. Yeah, I didn't know about this whole YouTube world and subscribing and how important that is. I don't know how to say it.
- [60:55]
James Polis
Gotta do it.
- [60:56]
Sage Steele
Yeah. It's the Sage Deal show, and I'm just having a blast having conversations like this one with you. And it's on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. Isn't that the line?
- [61:08]
James Polis
Yes. Smash that, like, button. Come on.
- [61:12]
Sage Steele
Yeah. And I love the feedback and I'm trying to just talk to. My first episode that came out, oh, gosh, almost a year ago was with Dana White and recently Kathie Lee Gifford. Gary Sinise was on recently and just incredible. Tyrus from Fox News and. And liberals, Mayim Bialik and actors. And it's been an honor to have people trust me. And thank you for having me. I know you have all kinds of cool people, of course. So thank you. This is cool. And I almost cried. Almost. Yeah. Nice try.
- [61:42]
James Polis
Yeah, I tried. We have to try. Sage, thanks so much. We'll be watching. We'll be listening.
- [61:46]
Sage Steele
Thank you.
- [61:48]
James Polis
All right, that's all the time we got today. So if you are on YouTube, you know the drill. Give us the, like, smash the subscribe button. Subscribe to BlazeTV. And until next time around, this is Zero Hour. I am James polis. And may God have mercy. Awesome.