Podcast Summary

Podcast: ZOE Science & Nutrition
Episode: Food additives exposed: The artificial dyes and chemicals to avoid | Marion Nestle
Host: Jonathan Wolf
Guest: Marion Nestle
Date: August 21, 2025

Overview

This episode investigates what food additives are, how they are regulated (or not) in the US and globally, and their potential health impacts, especially regarding children and ultra-processed foods. Marion Nestle, esteemed NYU professor and longtime critic of food industry practices, joins Jonathan Wolf to break down the science and politics behind what’s going into our food. The conversation exposes regulatory loopholes, cross-Atlantic contrasts, marketing to children, animal antibiotics, and how individuals can protect themselves.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. What Are Food Additives and Why Are They Used?

• Additives Purpose: Extends shelf life, enhances texture and appearance, makes food more palatable and appealing—especially for processed foods.
  • “Commercial bread is full of additives that make it much, much softer... These various chemical additives keep the bread fresh. They keep molds and bacteria from eating it. And people like that.” – Marion Nestle [04:21]
• Additives can include dough conditioners, colorants, preservatives, and more—often with intimidating chemical names.

2. Food Additive Regulation – U.S. vs. Europe

• US System:
  • Largely self-policed. Many additives classified as GRAS ("Generally Recognized As Safe") based on historical use, not rigorous modern testing.
  • Companies can convene their own experts, declare an additive safe, and inform (not seek approval from) the FDA. Very few rejections or follow-up studies.
    • “It’s like when my daughter marks her own homework and says she’s done an excellent job, even though she clearly hasn’t … I just select my own group of people to agree that this new additive is fine.” – Jonathan Wolf [07:25]
• European Approach:
  • "Precautionary principle"—don't allow additives without clear evidence of safety.
  • Some additives (especially artificial colors) require warning labels or are banned.
    • “Their attitude is if you don’t know it’s safe, you don’t use it. We have the attitude that, well, if it causes problems, we’ll get rid of it." – Marion Nestle [09:57]

3. Color Additives: Vivid, Cheap, and Controversial

• U.S. allows petroleum-derived (coal tar) colorants like Red 40, Blue 1 & 2, Yellow 5 & 6, still present in candies and cereals, especially those marketed to children.
  • “Red 40, it’s a petroleum dye, coal tar dye. … It’s oil … Chemicals that are extracted from oil.” – Marion Nestle [15:38]
• In Europe, such colors come with warning labels or are replaced with fruit/vegetable-based alternatives.
• Studies inconclusive but suggest a subset of children may react behaviorally to artificial colors; animal studies raise carcinogen concerns.
  • “One child in that study … every single time that child drank the drink with the additives in it, that child went off the wall ... But the other five children, no.” – Marion Nestle [17:19]
• Push to ban these colorants growing in US, with states like Texas enacting their own bans.

4. The Broader Additives Issue

• ~10,000 additives are estimated in use, with most never rigorously tested.
• Color additives are most politicized due to child health concerns, but many more additives lurk on ingredient labels.
  • “We don’t know what they do. … They’re certainly there in very, very small amounts. … The prediction is that they’re not particularly harmful. The FDA says they’re safe at levels commonly consumed.” – Marion Nestle [20:09]

5. Additives, Processing, and Public Health

• Processed foods are designed for palatability and shelf life, which often means heavy additive use and higher health risks (e.g., obesity, diabetes, cancer).
  • “These foods are designed to be really tasty. People love them … deliberately formulated to be irresistibly delicious.” – Marion Nestle [43:50]
• The cost-pressure argument (“cheaper food for all”) ignores “externalized costs” like public health crises and environmental damage.
  • “Those are the externalized costs of producing food in the health consequences and in the cost to the environment … The companies don’t pay for the healthcare that people have to have later on, and they don’t pay for the environmental cleanup.” – Marion Nestle [41:46]

6. Animal Feed, Antibiotics, and Hidden Additives

• Antibiotics: Routinely added to animal feed in US to promote rapid growth and prevent disease in crowded, industrial settings (CAFOs).
  • Major contributor to antibiotic resistance in humans.
    • “If these antibiotics are antibiotics used for human diseases, … Antibiotics won’t work. … This has made the antibiotics much less useful for treating human disease.” – Marion Nestle [35:32]
• Internationally, many other countries have tighter controls on such practices.

7. Marketing to Children

• Food companies intentionally target children to create lifelong customers. Techniques include bright colors (linked to taste perception), kid-focused ads, and “the pester factor.”
  • “The objective is to get children to like certain foods because they’re going to eat them through their entire life.” – Marion Nestle [44:50]
  • “There’s research that shows that they’re intentionally doing it.” – Marion Nestle [46:12]
• Marion calls for strict regulations on marketing unhealthy, ultra-processed food to children and media literacy education in schools.

8. The Politics and Economics of Additives

• Vigorous food industry lobbying stifles regulatory action in the US.
  • “The lobbyists are really good at what they do. … Consumer advocates have a much greater difficulty because there are very few consumer organizations that pay lobbyists to try to counter some of this.” – Marion Nestle [39:22]
• Occasionally, state-led bans (like Texas’) can force nationwide changes due to the interconnectedness of food supply.

9. Personal Strategies and Practical Advice

• Marion’s own guideline: “Eat food, not too much, mostly plants” (Michael Pollan).
• Minimize processed food, read labels (especially for children), and seek real, simple foods.
  • “Within that structure, once you define food, food as something that’s minimally processed, that’s all you have to do.” – Marion Nestle [42:54]
• Marion shares her lifelong approach, built from childhood: enjoyment of vegetables, avoidance of “junk,” skepticism of anything with a long ingredient list.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On US food regulation:
  • “If I see these colors on a package, I don’t eat them. Well, I don’t eat anything that’s not natural. That’s one of my food rules.” – Marion Nestle [16:11]
• On scientific challenges:
  • “I think everybody underestimates how difficult nutrition research is, because humans are not experiment animals. You can’t lock people up … and wait for 30 years to find out whether the effects show.” – Marion Nestle [08:47]
• On marketing and children:
  • “There’s plenty of research that shows that kids can’t tell the difference between advertising and content … I would … require media literacy in schools.” – Marion Nestle [49:17]
• On the food industry:
  • “Food companies are not social service agencies. … They could be selling widgets. Their job is to sell more to as many people as possible. The consequences are irrelevant.” – Marion Nestle [46:14]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:11 – 02:47: Rapid-fire Q&A on additives' safety, carcinogenicity, and regulation loopholes
• 04:18 – 05:34: What additives do in foods like Wonder Bread
• 07:25 – 08:23: How companies self-police and the FDA’s lax oversight
• 10:19 – 11:32: US vs. Europe approaches to color additives
• 15:38 – 15:57: Red 40 and petroleum-derived colors explained
• 17:19 – 18:38: The Feingold diet and behavioral impacts of food dyes on children
• 20:09 – 21:32: Why we should (or shouldn’t) worry about all other food additives
• 23:58 – 25:18: Role of evidence and lobbying in US food regulations
• 32:48 – 33:45: Antibiotics in animal feed and their consequences
• 38:16 – 39:34: Salmonella in US chicken, chlorinated chicken, and food safety tensions
• 41:44 – 42:54: Externalized costs: health and environmental consequences
• 49:14 – 50:08: Magic wand: What would Marion change in food regulation?
• 54:29 – 55:32: How Marion eats—and how to help others shift to healthier diets

Actionable Takeaways

• For individuals:
  • Read ingredient labels
  • Minimize foods with long or unfamiliar additive lists
  • Focus on real, minimally processed foods, mostly plants
  • Be especially cautious with foods marketed to children
• For policy:
  • Stricter additive approval, mandatory transparency
  • Ban/limit marketing of junk food to children
  • Improve school food quality, support food education
• Societal:
  • Recognize and address the impact of industry lobbying
  • Understand and push back on the real cost of “cheap” food

Marion’s lasting advice:

“Eat food, not too much, mostly plants.” [42:54]
“Read food labels on packages. And if it’s got all that stuff in it, I leave it on the shelf.” [56:34]

This episode is a vital listen for anyone concerned about what’s in their food, the health of their families, and how we can start changing a broken, profit-driven food system. Marion Nestle’s lived example, clear practical advice, and sharp critique of lax regulation offer both caution and guidance for making safer, healthier choices in a world of hidden ingredients.