ZOE Science & Nutrition Podcast Summary

Episode: Nutrition Scientist: This is why you're confused about ultra processed food | Prof. Sarah Berry
Release Date: August 7, 2025
Host: Jonathan Wolf
Guest: Professor Sarah Berry, Nutrition Scientist at King's College London and Chief Scientist at ZOE

Introduction: Rethinking Processed Foods

In this episode of ZOE Science & Nutrition, host Jonathan Wolf delves into the complex world of processed foods with esteemed nutrition scientist Professor Sarah Berry. Contrary to popular belief that all processed foods are detrimental, Prof. Berry presents a nuanced perspective, emphasizing that not all processing is inherently bad and that the term "ultra processed food" may be oversimplifying the issue.

Jonathan [00:00]: "Today's supermarkets are full of processed foods... The truth is there's a deeper, often unseen science behind food processing that significantly impacts our bodies."

The Misconception of "Ultra Processed Foods"

Prof. Berry challenges the widespread demonization of ultra processed foods, arguing that labeling all processed foods as harmful is misleading. While it's undeniable that heavily processed foods contribute to health issues like obesity, Prof. Berry highlights that processing can sometimes enhance the nutritional profile of foods.

Professor Sarah Berry [02:22]: "Not all ultra processed food is bad for us. Processing can make some foods healthier by reducing blood sugar spikes or improving micronutrient absorption."

Defining Food Processing

The conversation begins with clarifying what constitutes food processing. Prof. Berry explains that even basic cooking methods change the natural state of food, but it's the industrial processing techniques that often raise health concerns. Techniques like grinding, extrusion, and the addition of chemicals can alter the nutritional and structural integrity of foods.

Professor Sarah Berry [04:23]: "Processing food in industrial ways involves techniques like grinding, extrusion... but not meaning that they're all unhealthy for you."

Additives: Safety and Hidden Risks

A significant portion of the discussion centers on food additives. While regulatory bodies deem these additives safe based on toxicology studies, Prof. Berry warns of potential long-term impacts that aren't fully understood, such as disruptions to the gut microbiome.

Professor Sarah Berry [11:00]: "Additives... might actually over the long term negatively impact our health by disrupting our microbiome, which is central to all of our health."

Regulatory Differences: US vs. Europe

The episode touches on the differences in food additive regulations between the US and Europe. Prof. Berry notes that while Europe has historically had stricter regulations, recent changes in the US indicate a tightening of these standards.

Professor Sarah Berry [16:54]: "In the UK we've been stricter around what we allow compared to the US, but there have been recent discussions in the US about clamping down on certain additives."

The Food Matrix: Structure Matters

One of the most enlightening parts of the conversation is Prof. Berry's explanation of the "food matrix." She illustrates how processing affects the physical structure of food, which in turn influences digestion, nutrient absorption, and satiety. Using almonds as an example, she demonstrates how grinding can increase the bioavailability of calories but reduce the food's ability to promote fullness.

Professor Sarah Berry [19:27]: "The food matrix is the structure of a food. When we process it by grinding, we change how much of the food we absorb and how quickly we digest it."

Energy Density and Satiety

Prof. Berry further elaborates on how processed foods often become more energy-dense, meaning they contain more calories per gram. This alteration leads to quicker consumption and reduced feelings of fullness, contributing to overeating and weight gain.

Professor Sarah Berry [22:25]: "Energy dense foods allow you to consume more calories quickly, which can lead to overeating."

Introducing a New Scoring System for Processed Foods

Challenging the NOVA classification, Prof. Berry introduces ZOE's innovative scoring system designed to evaluate processed foods based on multiple health-impact factors rather than just the degree of processing. This system assesses additives, energy intake rate, and hyperpalatability to categorize foods into high, medium, low, or no risk.

Professor Sarah Berry [44:16]: "We've developed a scale that categorizes foods from high risk to no risk based on additives, energy intake rate, and hyperpalatability."

Empowering Consumers with Informed Choices

The new scoring system aims to empower consumers by providing a more accurate tool to discern healthier processed options from less healthy ones. For instance, not all peanut butters are equal; some may contain numerous additives placing them in the high-risk category, while others with minimal ingredients rank as low or no risk.

Professor Sarah Berry [44:48]: "We can categorize foods like Reese's peanut butter as high risk, Sun Pat as medium, and pip and nut as no risk, despite all being processed."

The Scientific Community's Response

Prof. Berry highlights that the scientific community eagerly embraces the complexity of food processing beyond simplistic labels. By advocating for a more detailed understanding, her approach aligns with fellow scientists who recognize the multifaceted impacts of processed foods on health.

Professor Sarah Berry [46:45]: "Scientists love to hear that it's more complex, and we agree that the oversimplification has been the real problem."

Economic Factors: Affordability of Healthy Choices

Acknowledging economic realities, Prof. Berry points out that many processed foods are significantly cheaper than their unprocessed counterparts. This affordability often drives consumer choices, especially among those with limited budgets.

Professor Sarah Berry [48:55]: "Processed foods are often about 50% cheaper than unprocessed equivalents, making them a practical choice for many people."

Leveraging Processing for Health Benefits

Prof. Berry doesn't entirely condemn food processing. She shares pioneering work where processing techniques are harnessed to enhance the nutritional value of foods. Examples include healthier bread formulations and methods to increase the bioavailability of essential nutrients like iron.

Professor Sarah Berry [54:00]: "We've created bread that is healthier and tastes the same by processing chickpeas to keep their cellular structure intact."

The Link Between Processed Foods and Chronic Diseases

The episode underscores the association between the rise of processed foods and the increase in chronic diseases such as obesity, diabetes, and cardiovascular ailments. Prof. Berry emphasizes that while multiple factors contribute to these health issues, the quality and processing of food play a substantial role.

Professor Sarah Berry [56:39]: "The way that the food is processed now compared to 100 years ago is responsible for some of this increase in obesity and chronic diseases."

Conclusion: Moving Forward with Informed Choices

Wrapping up, Prof. Berry emphasizes the importance of informed food choices. By adopting ZOE's comprehensive scoring system, consumers can navigate the complex food landscape more effectively, selecting processed foods that align better with their health goals.

Professor Sarah Berry [58:52]: "Swapping from high-risk to medium or low-risk processed foods will reduce your health risks over time."

Key Takeaways:

1. Not All Processing is Bad: Industrial food processing can sometimes enhance nutritional value and make foods more affordable and accessible.

2. Beyond the NOVA Classification: A more detailed approach is necessary to evaluate the health impacts of processed foods accurately.

3. The Importance of Food Structure: The physical structure of food affects digestion, nutrient absorption, and satiety, influencing overall health.

4. Additives Require Scrutiny: While deemed safe by regulatory bodies, additives may have subtle long-term effects on health, particularly concerning the gut microbiome.

5. Economic Realities: Processed foods are often cheaper, making them a practical choice for many, highlighting the need for affordable healthy options.

6. Innovative Solutions: Sustainable food processing techniques can improve the nutritional profile of foods, offering healthier alternatives without compromising taste.

This episode provides a comprehensive exploration of processed foods, advocating for a balanced view that recognizes both the challenges and potential benefits of food processing. By adopting a more sophisticated approach to evaluating processed foods, consumers can make healthier choices that align with their nutritional needs and lifestyles.