Podcast Summary: ZOE Science & Nutrition

Episode: Recap: Fat: The Full Story | Sarah Berry
Host: Jonathan Wolf (ZOE)
Guest: Professor Sarah Berry
Date: January 27, 2026

Episode Overview

This recap episode delves into the misunderstood world of dietary fat. Host Jonathan Wolf and Professor Sarah Berry unravel long-standing myths about fat consumption, explore how different types of fats and food processing impact health, and highlight why simple food labels don’t tell the whole story. The discussion is rooted in both cutting-edge scientific research and practical daily advice.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Experience with Fat: Changing Perspectives

• Jonathan Wolf shares his upbringing on a low-fat diet—stemming from his father's advice decades ago due to high cholesterol—and how ZOE testing changed his own preferences.
  • “I was absolutely sure that fat was bad for me… turns out my blood sugar control was really quite bad and actually my blood fat control was much better.” (00:39)
• Despite evidence and benefits, he admits to still feeling “guilty” when eating high-fat foods like cheese because of ingrained beliefs.
  • “I still have this basic feeling that it’s a bit naughty, isn’t it?” (01:15)

2. Cholesterol, Fat Types, and Common Misconceptions

• Sarah Berry clarifies dietary cholesterol vs. blood cholesterol:
  • “If you consume dietary cholesterol… it doesn’t actually increase your blood cholesterol levels, or it does only to a minimum.” (02:13)
• The real concern is the type of fats consumed—especially certain saturated fats—which can raise “bad” cholesterol.
• Examples of saturated fats that raise cholesterol: butter, palm oil, animal fats. (02:58)

3. Carbohydrates & Their Impact on Fats

• Excessive refined carbohydrates (bread, pasta, rice, processed snacks) can promote lipid (fat) production in the liver, raising both cholesterol and triglycerides—another cardiovascular risk:
  • “If you consume a diet high in refined carbohydrates… it promotes the production of lipids… increases our cholesterol levels and increases our levels of circulating triglycerides.” (03:24)

4. The “Matrix” Effect: Why All Fats Aren’t Equal

• Foods with similar fat content don’t have identical health effects—thanks to the “matrix,” or structure of the food.
• Cheese vs. Butter Example:
  • Cheese and butter have similar fatty acid composition, but cheese (a fermented dairy) does not negatively affect health in the same way as butter because of its matrix.
    • “You could feed people a moderate cheese diet, a moderate butter diet, the cheese wouldn’t have any unfavorable effects, yet actually the butter would…” (04:52)
• Processing Matters:
  • The way food is processed (e.g., whole vs. ground or fermented) changes how our bodies absorb and respond to nutrients. (05:27)

5. Limitations of Food Labels

• Standard nutritional labels focus on saturated/unsaturated fats but ignore the food’s structure or matrix, leading to misleading guidance:
  • “Food labels… are not necessarily really giving you any information that is helpful.” (06:20)
• Epidemiological studies show high saturated fat diets are less favorable, but clinical trials prove things are more complex at an individual and food category level. (06:41)
• Takeaway: Focus on whole foods and how they are prepared—not just a number on a label.

6. Almond Example: How Processing Alters Nutrition

• Whole almonds: Maintain their cell structure (“matrix”), so we only absorb about 60% of their energy/fat.
• Ground almonds: Matrix is broken; we absorb nearly all the fat and calories.
• Food labels would show identical nutrition for both, despite the difference.
  • “If I was to go into a supermarket… the backer pack labeling would show that they had identical energy values… That’s a really nice example of how we need to think about the food.” (08:17)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jonathan (sharing on food guilt):
  “I still feel really guilty when I eat cheese… Like, it’s not the right thing to do.” (01:15)
• Sarah Berry (on cholesterol):
  “It’s the type of fats that you’re consuming that increase your cholesterol levels…” (02:22)
• Sarah Berry (fermented dairy):
  “Dairy, cheese… has a really similar fatty acid composition to butter, but actually it doesn’t have the same unfavorable effect on our health as butter does.” (04:20)
• Sarah Berry (on food processing):
  “How we process food has a huge impact on its health outcomes… It’s magical because how we process food has a huge impact.” (05:27)
• Sarah Berry (on food labels):
  “Food labels… are not necessarily really giving you any information that’s helpful.” (06:41)
• Sarah Berry (almond anecdote):
  “If we were to grind those almonds up... we’re going to absorb everything… you suddenly have a food that has about a 30 to 40% higher energy content in terms of what we’re absorbing than the whole almonds.” (08:06)

Important Timestamps

• 00:39 – Jonathan describes his low-fat upbringing and surprising ZOE test results
• 02:00 – Sarah Berry debunks the cholesterol myth
• 02:58 – Examples of foods high in saturated fat
• 03:24 – Refined carbohydrates and their indirect effect on cholesterol/triglycerides
• 04:20 – Cheese and butter: The matrix effect
• 05:27 – Why food processing matters
• 06:20 – Limitations of food labels
• 08:06 – The almond processing example

Key Takeaways

• Dietary cholesterol from food has minimal impact on blood cholesterol for most people; the focus should be on the types and forms of fat.
• Processing and the matrix of food can significantly alter how fats and calories are absorbed and their effects on health.
• Labels and simple nutritional information often miss the full story—understanding food structure and avoiding over-reliance on processed refined carbs are essential.
• Eating whole, minimally-processed foods—rather than obsessing over fat grams or percentages—may be a more effective approach to health.

Tone: Empathetic, science-driven, and practical—aiming to debunk myths without judgment and empower smarter, more holistic food choices.