Recap: The misunderstood function of fat | Deborah Clegg

Summary

ZOE Science & Nutrition Podcast Summary
Episode: Recap: The Misunderstood Function of Fat
Guest: Dr. Deborah Clegg
Release Date: February 11, 2025
Host: Jonathan Wolf

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Introduction to the Misunderstood Role of Fat

In this insightful episode of ZOE Science & Nutrition, host Jonathan Wolf delves deep into the complex and often misunderstood functions of body fat. Addressing societal misconceptions and scientific insights, Dr. Deborah Clegg joins Professor Sarah Berry to unravel the true role of fat in our health and well-being.

Understanding Body Fat

Dr. Deborah Clegg begins by redefining body fat beyond its negative connotations:

Dr. Deborah Clegg [00:48]: "It's really, really important to understand how incredibly wonderful body fat... it's like an endocrine organ. It actually secretes all of these wonderful hormones."

Clegg explains that body fat, stored in adipocytes (fat cells), serves as a crucial energy reserve. Contrary to popular belief, having insufficient body fat can be as detrimental to health as excessive fat accumulation. She emphasizes the essential role of fat in reproductive health, particularly in women:

Dr. Deborah Clegg [01:13]: "If we don't have enough fat, we won't be able to become pregnant."

Healthy vs. Unhealthy Fat Cells

The conversation shifts to distinguishing between healthy and unhealthy fat cells. Clegg introduces a metaphor to explain fat cell functionality:

Dr. Deborah Clegg [02:38]: "Healthy fat is the type of fat, I love to call it spandex... An unhealthy fat cell is one that I think of as wool."

Healthy fat cells are flexible and can expand to store excess calories efficiently, preventing fat from accumulating in vital organs. In contrast, unhealthy fat cells are rigid, leading to fat deposition in places like the liver and heart, which can trigger various health issues.

Gender Differences in Fat Storage

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on how fat distribution differs between males and females, rooted in evolutionary biology. Clegg explains that women are biologically predisposed to store fat in the hips and thighs, areas that are protective and essential for functions like breastfeeding:

Dr. Deborah Clegg [05:03]: "Women, when we have to gain weight in a really, really healthy fashion, our bodies are designed to do that... we store those extra calories in our hips and thighs in these beautiful spandexy like fat cells."

In contrast, men typically store fat around the abdominal area, a trait linked to ancestral needs for energy during hunting activities. This difference makes weight loss patterns vary between genders:

Dr. Deborah Clegg [06:38]: "The man will lose weight faster than the female... because we are designed to, and we hold onto those extra calories as much as we can."

Changes in Fat Distribution with Aging and Menopause

As women age and approach menopause, the capacity to store fat in the hips and thighs diminishes, leading to a shift in fat distribution towards the belly. This transition increases the risk of metabolic diseases:

Dr. Deborah Clegg [06:56]: "Once we've hit storage capacity... it starts to go to your belly. And that's when it starts to become less healthy."

The panel discusses strategies to navigate this natural biological shift, emphasizing understanding and self-compassion.

Recommendations for Managing Fat Distribution

Addressing audience questions, Clegg provides actionable advice for those experiencing shifts in fat distribution:

1. Dietary Adjustments:

   • Mindfulness in Eating: Prioritize whole, unprocessed foods over refined and processed options.

     Dr. Deborah Clegg [09:59]: "Enjoy cooking again... making your meals either at home or making certain that you're utilizing fresh ingredients will do a world of good."

2. Exercise:

   • Maintaining Muscle Mass: Engage in weight-bearing activities to boost metabolic rate.
   • Variety in Workouts: Avoid monotonous routines to keep the body responsive.

     Dr. Deborah Clegg [08:29]: "I think that our bodies are such incredible machines. They get very, very comfortable with one activity... switch it up a bit."

3. Hormonal Awareness:

   • Understanding the impact of hormones like estrogen and testosterone on fat cell health and distribution.

Professor Sarah Berry adds a layer of nuance by linking fat metabolism to menopausal phases:

Professor Sarah Berry [09:07]: "Postmenopausal women... have a higher blood sugar response to a carbohydrate-rich meal."

She advises reducing intake of refined carbohydrates to manage insulin resistance and blood sugar levels post-menopause.

Embracing Natural Changes with Forgiveness

Clegg underscores the importance of accepting natural bodily changes:

Dr. Deborah Clegg [07:57]: "Being forgiving, understand that it's a natural biological shift."

She advocates for a balanced approach, combining healthy eating and consistent exercise, to mitigate the adverse effects of changing fat distribution.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with a reinforcement of the key message: body fat is not inherently bad but plays a vital role in our health. By understanding its functions and embracing scientifically-backed strategies, individuals can navigate the complexities of fat distribution and maintain overall well-being.

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Note: The episode’s final segment promoting Zoe Membership and its offerings was omitted in accordance with guidelines to exclude advertisements and non-content sections.

Transcript

[Host]

Hello and welcome to Zoe Recap, where each week we find the best bits from one of our podcast episodes to help you improve your health. Today we're discussing fat. It's a word that carries a lot of weight. It's a source of social judgment, a driver of insecurities, and a tool exploited by big food companies in targeted marketing campaigns. It's no surprise that a recent study found over 40% of people in the US have experienced some form of fat shaming. But do we really understand fat, what it does, how it forms, and why its distribution changes as we age? Professor Sarah Berry and Dr. Deborah Clegg are here to help us answer some of these questions and change our perception of fat. What is body fat?

[Dr. Deborah Clegg]

Oh, it's a great question. Right. So as we eat, extra calories or even calories that we eat have to be stored somewhere, and so it's actually stored in a fat cell. We call it an adipocyte. It's a sciency term to talk about a fat cell, and that's where calories are stored. So if you don't have enough body fat, it's actually as detrimental to your health as if you have too much.

[Host]

Because you don't have the energy that you might need.

[Dr. Deborah Clegg]

Exactly right. It's absolutely critical. In women, it's even more critical our brain somehow registers how much fat we have. If we don't have enough fat, we won't be able to become pregnant. So it's really, really important to understand how incredibly wonderful body fat. I think it's also something that, again, we think of it as being bad, but now we've discovered that it's like an endocrine organ. It actually secretes all of these wonderful hormones. It's really, really important for our health.

[Host]

And I'm quite surprised to hear that because I sort of think of fat as being this completely inert thing that we're carrying around. And I heard you say it's a store of energy. So I've sort of understood that because it's a bit like when you're eating food. Right. We know that fat and carbohydrate are these sort of simple macronutrients. You're saying that it's not as simple as that.

[Dr. Deborah Clegg]

It's not. Because I think there are so many different ways in which fat is regulated that we don't often pay attention to. So it does store calories, but it also secretes hormones. And I think that the idea that all fat is bad is a misconception. There are fat cells that can be healthy. And women tend to have more of those healthy fat cells than men. So even when you are asking your questions, you are utilizing yourself. As you know, in me, I'm might have responded differently if she were asking those exact same questions.

[Professor Sarah Berry]

That's interesting. So what is healthy fat then?

[Dr. Deborah Clegg]

I think healthy fat is the type of fat, I love to call it spandex. Right. So if you think of a fat cell, it's sort of basically a circle. And a healthy fat cell has the ability to expand when you have extra calories that you're taking in and need to be stored. An unhealthy fat cell is one that I think of as wool. It's a circle, but it's encased in connective tissue or fibers and ability to expand. And so all those extra calories, instead of being stored in that fat cell, actually go into your liver or into your heart, go into places they're not supposed to be. And that's when it becomes very unhealthy.

[Professor Sarah Berry]

So what changes a healthy fat cell to an unhealthy fat cell and vice versa? Is it reversible?

[Dr. Deborah Clegg]

It's not necessarily reversible. It's a great question. But what a healthy fat cell is, is one that has this expandable capacity. And what makes it that way? Estrogen is one of the. It makes a healthy fat cell. Healthy men have estrogen as well. Oftentimes we forget that men have estrogen. And so it's really the sort of the level of estrogens to testosterone that is so critical. But estrogens make this beautiful, expandable, spandexy like fat cell.

[Host]

And so is body fat the same in males and females?

[Dr. Deborah Clegg]

No, it's very different. Right. And I like to think back to why that might be. And I think it has to do with the fact that women, when we and we have to gain weight in a really, really healthy fashion, our bodies are designed to do that. We store those extra calories in our hips and thighs in these beautiful spandexy like fat cells. Men, on the other hand, store their fat predominantly in their belly area. The overall design back in the hunter gatherer days, was that the men predominantly were out there chasing the wild game. And so they had to store a little bit of fat so they would have energy to be able to chase, bring in the food. And so they would a little bit of fat in their abdominal area because you could utilize that fat really, really quickly. And so that's where men store fat, where women put it in our hips and thighs. And it's Bloody difficult to get rid of from our hips and thighs. But the women's fat is in this really protective area. And then during breastfeeding, we mobilize the calories that are in those fat stores to support the calories that we expend for breastfeeding.

[Host]

And so. Well, you're saying that as a woman, you're storing your fat in an area which you're describing. Spandex is like, it's quite easy to expand. It's not interfering with any of the organs that are important for my health. And that that might be related to things like breastfeeding, where you're having to get a lot of calories. I've seen this, right. You get a lot of calories for your children, whereas men are storing this for, you know, whatever the biological underlying reason or evolutionary reason might be, they're storing it around, like around their belly, tucked in with all sorts of organs, which I can think of, the liver, but I'm sure you can tell me lots of others that are down there, and that is much more constrained.

[Dr. Deborah Clegg]

Yes, exactly. So those fat cells, you wouldn't want them to get too big, right? Because then all of a sudden, well, you see that now in aging men. You see big, big bellies. Right. That's not what we wanted. We wanted to be able to mobilize a very small amount of extra calories that are stored in those fat cells for hunter gathering days. Right. And what's really fascinating to me is that if you have a male and a female, same age, they both go on the same diet. The man will lose weight faster than the female, again, because we are designed to, and we hold onto those extra calories as much as we can. And so oftentimes I can talk to a man and a woman, and they've gone on the diet together, and the man will lose weight, and all of a sudden he can cinch his belt up a little quicker, a little easier. It's like he's moved a notch in his belt where the woman is still struggling because she's still got those hips and thighs. And again, it's really, really difficult to mobilize that. But again, we have to embrace it because those are the really healthy fat cells, the ones that are in our hips and thighs.

[Professor Sarah Berry]

And so, Debbie, you've said how the fat cells are different around your stomach versus your hips and thighs and how men might be able to lose the fat more quickly than females. What about within a female? Where can you lose it from more quickly? Is it more stubborn around the belly? Because of these differences, it is a.

[Dr. Deborah Clegg]

Little bit more stubborn, especially as we age. But we'll go with someone who is premenopausal. And so what happens is that typically we love to store again the calories in our hips and thighs. And but once we've hit storage capacity such that the spandex has expanded as much as it possibly can, then we start to store it in other places. And that's when it starts to go to your belly. And so that's also when it starts to become less healthy. And then again that's in the premenopausal stage. I like to think of it as sort of our storage tanks. So you first fill up your storage tank, which is your hips and thighs, and then once those tanks are completely full, then it starts to shift in women into that belly area. And that's when we, we have a higher incidence of diseases such as diabetes, cardiovascular disease, even some cancers.

[Host]

The largest number of questions we had from our community were actually saying, once I've been experiencing basically this shift in where my body fat is distributed, what can I do about it?

[Dr. Deborah Clegg]

Well, I think first of all, being forgiving, understand that it's a natural biological shift. I think also making sure that we're eating right and still doing our exercise. I think that the health message doesn't really change. I think it just becomes more important because I.

[Host]

Does the exercise have an impact on this? And that really does affect sort of the redistributing because I think lots of people will be listening to this and potentially a bit surprised that that makes any difference to your fat distribution rather than just impact your health.

[Dr. Deborah Clegg]

I would say that you're still going to have a shift, it's still going to happen. Right. But I think that what the exercise does is it helps maintain our muscle mass and the more muscle we have, the higher our metabolic rate. So I just am a huge advocate of weight bearing activity. I also love for people to switch it up. Don't just get stuck in the same routine. Right. You know, I think that our bodies are so such incredible machines. They get very, very comfortable with one activity, you know, so if you only go to the treadmill and you every day you run for an hour on the treadmill. Now maybe as you're starting to transition, mix it up a bit.

[Professor Sarah Berry]

Yeah. And I think something Jonathan and Debbie that I get asked a lot is what foods can I change. But what we do know from our own research is that how you metabolize the food is actually quite different depending on the phase of your menopause, whether you're pre or post menopause. So what we find is that postmenopausal women who we know are more insulin resistant, actually have a higher blood sugar response to a carbohydrate rich meal. And so one recommendation we can make, given that we know that that's best for our health, we can say, actually, can you be a bit more mindful about the types of food that you're eating? So be a bit more mindful about having refined carbohydrates, so your white breads, your white pastas, your white rice, you know, your sugary foods. So whilst there is no silver bullet, I think it's really a time that we can say, yeah, just be a bit more mindful about those kind of quick fix foods.

[Dr. Deborah Clegg]

I love that. I think that being more mindful is spot on. I think the other thing too is that oftentimes we reach for really refined foods, you know, processed foods. And there's so much data coming out right now indicating that processing of foods, even if you eat the same number of calories, but all of your calories are coming from processed foods, it's so much more unhealthy, the processed foods. So I think that as we transition, if we can go back and eat a more healthy diet that is not processed, going for the fresh fruits and vegetables, actually making your meals either at home or making certain that you're utilizing fresh ingredients will do a world of good. Especially as we're transitioning. I think that's the most important message for people to take home is that actually enjoy cooking again.

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