Recap: Why we avoid exercise and how to overcome it | Daniel Lieberman

Summary

Podcast Summary: ZOE Science & Nutrition
Episode: Recap: Why We Avoid Exercise and How to Overcome It | Daniel Lieberman
Release Date: February 4, 2025
Host: Jonathan Wolf

In this episode of ZOE Science & Nutrition, host Jonathan Wolf delves into the intriguing conflict between our bodies' innate desire for movement and our brains' tendency to resist exercise. Featuring insights from Professor Daniel Lieberman, a renowned evolutionary biologist, the discussion explores the evolutionary roots of our attitudes toward exercise and offers practical strategies to overcome our natural aversions.

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1. Understanding Exercise vs. Physical Activity

[00:56] Professor Lieberman begins by clarifying the distinction between physical activity and exercise:

"Exercise is a special form of physical activity, which is discretionary, voluntary physical activity that we do for the sake of health and fitness rather than because I need to get to the top of the house in order to pick something up."

He emphasizes that while all exercise is physical activity, not all physical activity qualifies as exercise. Historically, humans engaged in physical activity primarily out of necessity or for reward, not for health or fitness.

2. Evolutionary Perspective on Physical Activity

Delving deeper, Professor Lieberman explains that for millions of years, our ancestors were physically active only when it was necessary for survival, such as hunting or escaping predators, or when the activity itself was rewarding, like play:

"For millions and millions of years, people were physically active for two reasons and two reasons only when it was necessary... or when it was rewarding."

This perspective challenges the modern notion of exercising for health, a practice that is relatively recent in human history.

3. Modern Exercise: The Aversion Explained

The conversation highlights a crucial question: If exercise is beneficial, why do so many people dislike it? Professor Lieberman attributes this aversion to the unnatural nature of contemporary exercise:

"When people say we hate to exercise, it's because we're asking people to do something that is intrinsically unnatural."

He illustrates this by recounting his experience with the Tarahumara, a Native American group renowned for their endurance running. Despite their prowess in long-distance running, they do not train specifically for it; instead, their lifestyle naturally incorporates physical activity.

4. Overcoming the Aversion to Exercise

[05:03] The discussion shifts to practical solutions for overcoming our natural resistance to exercise. Professor Lieberman suggests that to make exercise appealing, it must either be necessary or rewarding:

"We evolved to be physically active either because it's necessary, rewarding. Now we live in this world... either they somehow have the willpower to overcome that distaste for what they're doing, or they find ways to make it fun."

He underscores the importance of integrating social elements, such as running with friends or having a training partner, to make exercise a rewarding and enjoyable activity rather than a chore.

5. Making Exercise Enjoyable

Furthering the conversation, Professor Lieberman shares personal anecdotes about making exercise more enjoyable by associating it with social interactions:

"I usually rarely enjoy starting exercise, but I usually am glad I've done it when it's over."

He describes how scheduling regular runs with friends transforms exercise into a social event, thereby increasing its appeal and consistency.

6. Insights from the Tarahumara

Highlighting the Tarahumara's approach to physical activity, Professor Lieberman notes:

"They have dances. They'll dance for 24 hours... there's a lot of drinking going on. It's a party. They're having a great time."

This example illustrates how integrating physical activity into enjoyable and communal activities can naturally incorporate exercise without the associated aversion.

7. Key Takeaways and Practical Advice

In conclusion, the episode emphasizes that understanding the evolutionary basis of our relationship with exercise can inform more effective strategies to incorporate physical activity into our lives. By making exercise necessary through social commitments or transforming it into enjoyable activities, we can better align our modern lifestyles with our biological predispositions.

Notable Quotes:

• [00:56] “Exercise is a special form of physical activity... for the sake of health and fitness rather than because I need to get to the top of the house in order to pick something up.”
• [05:09] “It's not really complicated. We evolved to be physically active either because it's necessary, rewarding.”
• [09:15] “They have dances. They'll dance for 24 hours... It's a party. They're having a great time.”

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This episode provides a compelling exploration of why exercise is often resisted and offers scientifically grounded strategies to make physical activity a more natural and enjoyable part of our lives.

Transcript

[A]

Hello and welcome to Zoe Recap, where each week we find the best bits from one of our podcast episodes to help you improve your health. Today we're exploring what evolution can teach us about exercise. When it comes to doing exercise, there's often a tug of war between our body and our brain. Our body craves movement. It wants to be leaner, fitter, stronger. But our brain, well, that's a different story. It often dreads the thought of going on a run or lifting weights, and we'll try and find any excuse to avoid doing it. So why does this conflict exist? And more importantly, how can we overcome it? Professor Daniel Lieberman is here to unravel the mysteries of our exercising ancestors and explain how this can help us train today. Is exercise good for us? And if so, why do most of us hate it?

[B]

Well, to answer that question, let's start with a definition. All right, so exercise is a form of physical activity. So physical activity is just moving, right? You know, climbing the stairs to get to my office, making breakfast, whatever. That's all forms of physical activity. And exercise is a special form of physical activity, which is discretionary, voluntary physical activity that we do for the sake of health and fitness rather than because.

[A]

I need to get to the top of the house in order to pick something up.

[B]

Yeah. And if you think about exercise that way, and actually exercise comes from the Latin word that has to do with hoeing. There's a reason when you do your maths exercises, we call them exercises, you're not using anything other than your brain there. But it's a modern behavior. Nobody until very recently exercised under discretionary, voluntary reasons for the sake of health and fitness.

[A]

Is that right? You say that as if it's obvious, but there weren't lots of people doing exercises in the Roman times or the.

[B]

That's still recent as far as I'm concerned.

[A]

Right, so for the idea of recent is longer than mine.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I'm talking prehistory. Right. For millions and millions of years, people were physically active for two reasons and two reasons only when it was necessary. In other words, in order to get food or to avoid being somebody else's food. Right. Or when it was rewarding. Think about play. I mean, children in all cultures play, adults play. And play, of course, is very useful for all kinds of reasons.

[A]

But our ancestors were not doing exercise in order to make sure that when they went hunting, they would be successful. No, never again you say that, but that's really interesting because we think now you need to do lots of exercise in order to go and be successful at, you know, if you were going to be. Going to have to run in a race, you think, well, you need to do lots of exercise in order to be successful at the race. But our ancestors didn't need to do that in order to catch the antelope.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, there's many ways to answer that question. But let me just say that the reason I started this book actually, they really. Sometimes people make up these epiphanies, but I actually really had one when I was doing some research in northern Mexico, studying a Native American population that's famous for its running the Tarahumara. And I was collecting data, I was being a good anthropologist. Had my clipboard with all my questions that I'd worked out in advance and talked to ethnographer friends and to make sure that I was doing it in the right proper way when I was measuring their feet and measuring their running biomechanics and doing all kinds of stuff. Just me and a guy who I'd hired to help me travel around, and we were sleeping on the floors of pueblos and all this sort of stuff ever. I asked people about training. That's what you're talking about. I got these really confused answers. People didn't understand the question. And I had a translator. And finally there was this one old guy I was interviewing, and he was a shaman famous for his long distance running too. And so I could tell my translator was asking my usual question, how do you train for running? And he looked at me and I don't even need a translator. I could say, why would anybody run if they didn't have to? And that's what he said. And this is a guy who runs 100 mile races. He doesn't train. His life is his training. He's very physically active. He walks long distances occasionally. When he was young, he used to run in order to hunt. But the idea of getting up in the morning, this morning I ran about five or six miles just for the sake of running five or six miles. The various places I go to do research. And when I run in the morning, they laugh at me. They think it's hilarious. And it makes sense because most people in most parts of the world, for most of our evolutionary history, struggle to get enough food. Right. It's hard, right? And I spent what, about 500 calories this morning running my five miles? If you're struggling to get enough calories, wasting 500 calories in the morning just for no purpose whatsoever, it's not a good idea. It's Maladaptive. So when people say we hate to exercise, it's because we're asking people to do something that is intrinsically unnatural. And the example I love to point out is if you ever go to an airport or a mall or a subway stop or whatever, where there's an escalator next to a stairway. I was just in the subway here in Boston going up to South Station, and I got off the subway car and everybody filed and waited in line to go up the escalator. And I was one of the few people who took the stairs because I have to, otherwise I'm a hypocrite. Right.

[A]

And did you take the stairs because you know it's good for you but you hate doing it anyway, or are you in this exception for some reason?

[B]

No, I don't like taking the steps.

[A]

You don't like taking the steps.

[B]

But if anybody like, I'm Mr. Like, I'm Mr. You should be physically active. Anybody catches me on the escalator, I'm in trouble. Right.

[A]

So you're in the same world as me is what you say. You don't. It's not. You enjoy it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're just trying to override your natural tendency to basically be lazy and not. Not do this.

[B]

Just like, you know, most people, if you put a piece of cake in front of me and an apple, right. I'm going to want the cake. Right. And I have to override my instincts to eat the cake rather than the apple. And if nobody's looking, I might have the cake. Right.

[A]

And I do sometimes meet people who seem to really enjoy exercise, and they do, like, these extreme things like Ironman or ultramarathons or the rest of it. So are you saying that they're just a bit weird, which I've always suspected?

[B]

Well, I think it's more complicated than that. I mean, I usually rarely enjoy starting exercise, but I usually am glad I've done it when it's over. And that's what you mentioned at the beginning. Right. So, I mean, this morning was no exception. Right. There was a beautiful morning here in Boston. It was perfect weather, could not have been nicer for running. And I was like, dithering and complaining. And finally my wife said, come on, just go. Time for you to go. And, you know, I didn't enjoy the first mile very much. I never do. Then I settled in and I enjoyed myself. And by the time I came home, I was glad I did it. But I've done it enough to know that I get some benefit and I'm Reasonably fit, that it's not a horrible chore, right. But if I'm unfit and struggling to exercise, right, If I'm overweight or I haven't exercised in a long time, it's hard. And we shouldn't make people feel bad for not liking it. You have to overcome some inertia.

[A]

And you're saying that is deeply rooted in us. It's actually our body has sort of evolved to protect those, you know, protect our calories, not waste energy on doing this exercise. So whenever you do do this exercise, you sort of. You deserve a big round of applause is what I'm hearing. Like you're sort of overcoming something that is actually natural to say, well, don't waste your energy doing this. Because after all, if you really needed to do this, you'd go and do it anyway because you won't get any food or whatever. So at which point, you wouldn't need this strong desire to do exercise. You'd just be like, well, I have to go and walk that far in order to get this food, otherwise I'm going to go hungry. And that is definitely worse. Is that.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I think you've made it more complicated than necessary. I mean, again, just to simplify it, it's not really complicated. Right. We evolved to be physically active for two reasons and two reasons only. Full stop when it was necessary or rewarding. And so if we want to help people exercise, we have to either make it necessary or rewarding or both. So if I'm going to meet a friend for a run, I don't necessarily even think about it as exercise. Hey, I'm going to go meet my friend Elena, which I do every Friday morning, and we run together, and it's fun. We chat about the week and this, et cetera. And I don't think about it so much as exercise. It's my, you know, a weekly meeting with my friend and neighbor Elena. Or maybe I have a coach, right? And my coach says, you know, training for Boston Marathon on Tuesday, want you to do this. He's kind of made it necessary for me, right? And I've signed up for this race and I better damn well train, otherwise I'm going to be humiliated or have a horrible time. So we use carrots, we use sticks, but it's really very simple. You know, we evolve to be physically active either because it's necessary, rewarding. Now we live in this world where people know that it's good for them to be physically active, AKA exercise, because they don't. Otherwise they sit in chairs all day long. And either they somehow have the willpower to overcome that distaste for what they're doing, or they find ways to make it fun.

[A]

That's brilliant. So one way is that suddenly, instead of this being unpleasant, there's this way that switches it to being fun. And actually you talk about dancing in the book and I was sort of struck by that, that in my mind, I enjoy dancing. That's definitely not exercise. That's fun. And then you point out, well, actually it's quite a lot of exercise really. But because you switched to things, you don't think about it like that. It's just fun. And therefore you just respond to it in a different way.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, the Tarahumara I was mentioning earlier are famous for their endurance dancing. Everybody talks about their endurance running. They have dances. I've been there. They'll dance for 24 hours.

[A]

24 hours, yes.

[B]

They just go on and on and on and on. There's a lot of drinking going on. It's a party. They're having a great time. Right. And that, of course, is obviously training. Right. They don't think of it as training and of course it helps them because dancing is jumping and running is actually just jumping from one leg to another. The bottom line is you're struggling to do it. A don't feel bad about yourself. There's nothing wrong with you, and try to make it fun. So, example, I like to run and I often run with friends and so on Tuesdays I run with so and so, and on Fridays I run with so and so. And on Sundays we have this big running group and we often email each other the night before. It's like, hey, let's meet on Tuesday at 7:15. And I guarantee you, at Tuesday at 7:00, it's like, oh, my God. I'm like, what am I doing? I don't. It's raining or it's cold or I've got to work on this paper, I gotta get ready for class or whatever and I don't want to do it, but I've already promised my friend Aaron that I'm going to be there. And if I'm not there, he's going to be pissed off. And so I go. And we're often grumbling in the morning and neither of us want to see each other. And then after 10, 15 minutes, you know, it's fun, it's good. So we've made it necessary for each other.

[C]

That's it for this week's recap. If you're hearing this, you're already on your way to making smarter food choices with world leading science. Speaking of making smarter food choices, Zoe membership helps you do just that with scientific solutions that let you listen to your gut. Listening to your gut starts with an at home test kit that helps you understand your body's responses to food and the good and bad microbes in your gut. Then Zoe's app helps you build life changing nutrition habits step by step. Become a Zoe member today and give your gut the love it deserves. The first step is easy. Go to Zoe.com and use the code podcast to get 10% off. As a Zoe member, you'll get a comprehensive at home test kit and personalised nutrition program. So go to Zoe.com and get 10% off with the Code podcast.